Isn't it funny that...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

... when teams play FBS teams and lose it's never a "significant loss", yet when FCS teams play other highly-ranked FCS teams out-of-conference, they're almost always seen as "significant losses"?

Three of the four teams under serious discussion for the "Most Significant Loss" this week are UNH, Eastern Washington, and McNeese State. All three are nationally-ranked teams that played tough road games within the FCS against nationally-ranked teams. And all three are in danger of falling like a rock this week simply because they are doing what people say they want, i.e. scheduling tough FCS teams OOC during the season.

If I'm New Hampshire next season, why do I sign up for this aggravation? Why don't I simply schedule Ohio State, get a $900,000 paycheck, and I never show up in a "most significant loss" column ever again?

People say they want one thing in July. When October rolls around, the reality is completely different.

[HensRock]

Why?

Because if you lose these games, you never really belonged in the first place.
And if you DO really belong, you will take care of business the rest of the way and get back in anyway.

You going to live life afraid of being placed in the "Most Significant Loss" column?
Oh, the horrors!

Maybe you should ask:
Why have a football program?

[IBleedYellow]

Ummm, what??

When two high ranked opponents play each other one of them has to win. Do you really not understand this? I personally don't drop teams that far when they lose ranked match-ups. EWU isn't even on the radar for biggest loss, who the hell would state that?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why?

Because if you lose these games, you never really belonged in the first place.
And if you DO really belong, you will take care of business the rest of the way and get back in anyway.

You going to live life afraid of being placed in the "Most Significant Loss" column?
Oh, the horrors!

Maybe you should ask:
Why have a football program?

Coming from a program that has Wagner, Jacksonville and Delaware State as their OOC this is especially rich.

Of course it's not the fact that they're in the "Most Significant Loss" column but more about what it actually represents. It means their loss is seen as significant enough to drop them quite significantly in the polls - 8-10 spots or more in many cases. And I don't think this is a non-power conference thing either.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ummm, what??

When two high ranked opponents play each other one of them has to win. Do you really not understand this? I personally don't drop teams that far when they lose ranked match-ups. EWU isn't even on the radar for biggest loss, who the hell would state that?

Read the "Most significant Loss" thread and their name pops up.

"When two high ranked opponents play each other one of them has to win." Yes, but a team can schedule Georgia State, clearly a worse program than almost all, if not all, of the FCS Top 25 and not see their ranking drop. So if I'm putting together a schedule, why bother playing a great FCS team?

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The pickings are real slim for MSL. I would think that people are not all that surprised that UNH, EWU, and McNeese lost. Lehigh has been respectable for long enough now that it shouldn't be all that shocking. EWU has a defense that can defend the Big Sky offenses well enough but can't seem to defend what Sam Houston does. McNeese has a history of impressing in FBS games and then not making any noise nationally (though I did think it was going to be closer than it was).

Also, I might get blasted for saying this, but why is no one including South Dakota State? They got shut out at home. Do people really think NDSU is such a juggernaut that a 20-0 win should be expected over a top 5 team when they come into your stadium? No offense, NDSU, but I don't.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The pickings are real slim for MSL. I would think that people are not all that surprised that UNH, EWU, and McNeese lost. Lehigh has been respectable for long enough now that it shouldn't be all that shocking. EWU has a defense that can defend the Big Sky offenses well enough but can't seem to defend what Sam Houston does. McNeese has a history of impressing in FBS games and then not making any noise nationally (though I did think it was going to be closer than it was).

Also, I might get blasted for saying this, but why is no one including South Dakota State? They got shut out at home. Do people really think NDSU is such a juggernaut that a 20-0 win should be expected over a top 5 team when they come into your stadium? No offense, NDSU, but I don't.

I agree with that. JMU losing to Delaware to me was another big loss since they were on the border of my Top 25 for a long time.

The good thing from an FCS football perspective is that there were loads of great matchups last week. It was a great week to be a fan following the action - the only hitch being that many of the games were not available nationally on TV. What I don't like is that people seem to be punishing teams for playing good FCS teams. You can't control your conference foes but you do have control over OOC.

[Lehigh'98]

... when teams play FBS teams and lose it's never a "significant loss", yet when FCS teams play other highly-ranked FCS teams out-of-conference, they're almost always seen as "significant losses"?

Three of the four teams under serious discussion for the "Most Significant Loss" this week are UNH, Eastern Washington, and McNeese State. All three are nationally-ranked teams that played tough road games within the FCS against nationally-ranked teams. And all three are in danger of falling like a rock this week simply because they are doing what people say they want, i.e. scheduling tough FCS teams OOC during the season.

If I'm New Hampshire next season, why do I sign up for this aggravation? Why don't I simply schedule Ohio State, get a $900,000 paycheck, and I never show up in a "most significant loss" column ever again?

People say they want one thing in July. When October rolls around, the reality is completely different.

Of course you will drop when you lose, that's why they play the games. I bet you will find that EWU doesn't drop that much in the rankings. UNH will because at some point if you don't start winning (they have 1 W against a winless team) you go away.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

... when teams play FBS teams and lose it's never a "significant loss", yet when FCS teams play other highly-ranked FCS teams out-of-conference, they're almost always seen as "significant losses"?

Three of the four teams under serious discussion for the "Most Significant Loss" this week are UNH, Eastern Washington, and McNeese State. All three are nationally-ranked teams that played tough road games within the FCS against nationally-ranked teams. And all three are in danger of falling like a rock this week simply because they are doing what people say they want, i.e. scheduling tough FCS teams OOC during the season.

If I'm New Hampshire next season, why do I sign up for this aggravation? Why don't I simply schedule Ohio State, get a $900,000 paycheck, and I never show up in a "most significant loss" column ever again?

People say they want one thing in July. When October rolls around, the reality is completely different.

I'd say losing to Lehigh is ALWAYS a significant loss - It means you probably wouldn't make it out of the first round of the playoffs and should seriously consider firing the coach. SWAC, MEAC, Patriot, Pioneer, NEC, and Ivy conferences are what's wrong at the bottom end of D1 Football. Efforts to require scholarship minimums for I-AA/FCS have always been shot down by those schools.

Boise St, Nevada, Connecticut, Middle Tenn, Marshall, UMass, Arkansas St, Texas St, Western Ky, Troy, UL-Monroe, Old Dominion, Ga Southern, and App St have fled association with the Lehigh's.

NDSU, Montana, Montana St, Delaware, JMU (leaving FCS), and perhaps a few others will probably have to leave as well. FCS is wonderful for small schools, but the Big Money at the top and the Big Money, Power at the bottom of D1 have made sure I-AA served as nothing more than insurance for D1 basketball.

I-AA/FCS would be much better if the G5 Conferences were still included and the D1 in name only Conferences were made to have minimum scholarships or go to D2. LFN acts as defender of the FCS faithful, but your school is part of the problem!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'd say losing to Lehigh is ALWAYS a significant loss - It means you probably wouldn't make it out of the first round of the playoffs and should seriously consider firing the coach. SWAC, MEAC, Patriot, Pioneer, NEC, and Ivy conferences are what's wrong at the bottom end of D1 Football. Efforts to require scholarship minimums for I-AA/FCS have always been shot down by those schools.

Boise St, Nevada, Connecticut, Middle Tenn, Marshall, UMass, Arkansas St, Texas St, Western Ky, Troy, UL-Monroe, Old Dominion, Ga Southern, and App St have fled association with the Lehigh's.

NDSU, Montana, Montana St, Delaware, JMU (leaving FCS), and perhaps a few others will probably have to leave as well. FCS is wonderful for small schools, but the Big Money at the top and the Big Money, Power at the bottom of D1 have made sure I-AA served as nothing more than insurance for D1 basketball.

I-AA/FCS would be much better if the G5 Conferences were still included and the D1 in name only Conferences were made to have minimum scholarships or go to D2. LFN acts as defender of the FCS faithful, but your school is part of the problem!

Thought I'd add here that UConn's head coach Paul Pasqualoni was finally fired about four weeks too late after losing to Towson. He'll be bought out $750,000.

[Dane96]

... when teams play FBS teams and lose it's never a "significant loss", yet when FCS teams play other highly-ranked FCS teams out-of-conference, they're almost always seen as "significant losses"?

Three of the four teams under serious discussion for the "Most Significant Loss" this week are UNH, Eastern Washington, and McNeese State. All three are nationally-ranked teams that played tough road games within the FCS against nationally-ranked teams. And all three are in danger of falling like a rock this week simply because they are doing what people say they want, i.e. scheduling tough FCS teams OOC during the season.

If I'm New Hampshire next season, why do I sign up for this aggravation? Why don't I simply schedule Ohio State, get a $900,000 paycheck, and I never show up in a "most significant loss" column ever again?

People say they want one thing in July. When October rolls around, the reality is completely different.

I don't understand your point. Why would a school care about a "significant loss" conversation happening on AGS? Furthermore, the UNH loss is being discussed not because of the sole loss to Lehigh--who is in my poll--but because they have ZERO quality wins that can be used to justify ANY ranking at this point and as a result, they are in danger of going from a Top 15 rank to out of the poll all together.

This is the point some have been making earlier about why a Significant Loss doesn't have to match a Significant Win. The Lehigh win is not a significant win compared to the rest of the week but it most certainly justifies a Lehigh ranking if they have yet to be ranked in a poll.

[superman7515]

Coming from a program that has Wagner, Jacksonville and Delaware State as their OOC this is especially rich.

Central Connecticut State, Monmouth, and Princeton... Pot meet kettle. The difference?

Georgetown, Bucknell, Holy Cross, Lafayette, Colgate...
James Madison, Maine, Towson, William & Mary, Richmond, Villanova...

If we had your schedule, we would get diabetes.

http://cupcakemojo.com/images/index/bannerImage4.jpg

[PAllen]

Boise St, Nevada, Connecticut, Middle Tenn, Marshall, UMass, Arkansas St, Texas St, Western Ky, Troy, UL-Monroe, Old Dominion, Ga Southern, and App St have fled association with the Lehigh's.


Hahaha. Now I see mighty Georgia Southern should be on the watch list for a major bowl berth. I think you forgot a few on your list there Cliff, like Idaho and Georgia State, etc, but I'll be looking for your invite to the Fiesta Bowl to play Boise St. xlolx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I don't understand your point. Why would a school care about a "significant loss" conversation happening on AGS? Furthermore, the UNH loss is being discussed not because of the sole loss to Lehigh--who is in my poll--but because they have ZERO quality wins that can be used to justify ANY ranking at this point and as a result, they are in danger of going from a Top 15 rank to out of the poll all together.

This is the point some have been making earlier about why a Significant Loss doesn't have to match a Significant Win. The Lehigh win is not a significant win compared to the rest of the week but it most certainly justifies a Lehigh ranking if they have yet to be ranked in a poll.

His point is ALWAYS "Lehigh doesn't get the respect it deserves".

[MSUBobcat]

... when teams play FBS teams and lose it's never a "significant loss", yet when FCS teams play other highly-ranked FCS teams out-of-conference, they're almost always seen as "significant losses"?

Three of the four teams under serious discussion for the "Most Significant Loss" this week are UNH, Eastern Washington, and McNeese State. All three are nationally-ranked teams that played tough road games within the FCS against nationally-ranked teams. And all three are in danger of falling like a rock this week simply because they are doing what people say they want, i.e. scheduling tough FCS teams OOC during the season.

If I'm New Hampshire next season, why do I sign up for this aggravation? Why don't I simply schedule Ohio State, get a $900,000 paycheck, and I never show up in a "most significant loss" column ever again?

People say they want one thing in July. When October rolls around, the reality is completely different.

You are reading too much butthurt into a simple discussion thread. On top of that you are making up stats to support your "argument". The 3 teams you bring up as getting serious discussion for MSL, aren't. UM ran away with the voting from posters (11 votes out of 26, FPC and ngineer listed 3 MSL's). EWU was mentioned 1 time, along with UM and UNH, by ngineer. UNH got 6 votes and 2 were from Lehigh fans. McNeese got 4 votes (likely due to the nature of the loss). As Lehigh '98 stated, you drop when you lose, and this loss is significant to UNH because it may reveal to voters that UNH has been ranked too high all year, NOT that losing to Lehigh is a travesty. There's no anti-Lehigh conspiracy, just an oversensitive LFN.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Central Connecticut State, Monmouth, and Princeton... Pot meet kettle. The difference?

Georgetown, Bucknell, Holy Cross, Lafayette, Colgate...
James Madison, Maine, Towson, William & Mary, Richmond, Villanova...

If we had your schedule, we would get diabetes.

http://cupcakemojo.com/images/index/bannerImage4.jpg

Please stop. Lehigh and Delaware cannot control who they play in conference. Our OOC slate includes New Hampshire. Where's Delaware's nationally-ranked team in their OOC?

Also, and Delaware fans may have missed it, if anything I'm justifying your scheduling strategy. Why host Lehigh at all? Schedule Jacksonville and Delaware State. They'll pose no challenge, unlike Lehigh, and the Blue Hens will rack up easy "W"s, with little to no cost. Why challenge yourselves?

[gotts]

His point is ALWAYS "Lehigh doesn't get the respect it deserves".

I think Le High is getting all the respect they deserve right now :D

[Lehigh Football Nation]

...UNH has been ranked too high all year...

Just like those other 130 consecutive weeks in the Top 25, I guess?

[BisonBacker]

... when teams play FBS teams and lose it's never a "significant loss", yet when FCS teams play other highly-ranked FCS teams out-of-conference, they're almost always seen as "significant losses"?

Three of the four teams under serious discussion for the "Most Significant Loss" this week are UNH, Eastern Washington, and McNeese State. All three are nationally-ranked teams that played tough road games within the FCS against nationally-ranked teams. And all three are in danger of falling like a rock this week simply because they are doing what people say they want, i.e. scheduling tough FCS teams OOC during the season.

If I'm New Hampshire next season, why do I sign up for this aggravation? Why don't I simply schedule Ohio State, get a $900,000 paycheck, and I never show up in a "most significant loss" column ever again?

People say they want one thing in July. When October rolls around, the reality is completely different.


I don't know where you get the falling like a rock idea from. Voters recognize the competition and as such vote accordingly. None of the teams that lost that played ranked FCS opponents did I "drop like a rock" in my poll. As to those who say if you lose you didn't belong in the first place isn't right either. Only if you get piss pounded should you fall significantly. In that case it does beg the question were they ranked to high to begin with? What's the level of competition that got them that ranking in the first place? Lots of variables that go into voting and it's obviously not an exact science.

[MSUBobcat]

I don't understand your point. Why would a school care about a "significant loss" conversation happening on AGS? Furthermore, the UNH loss is being discussed not because of the sole loss to Lehigh--who is in my poll--but because they have ZERO quality wins that can be used to justify ANY ranking at this point and as a result, they are in danger of going from a Top 15 rank to out of the poll all together.

This is the point some have been making earlier about why a Significant Loss doesn't have to match a Significant Win. The Lehigh win is not a significant win compared to the rest of the week but it most certainly justifies a Lehigh ranking if they have yet to be ranked in a poll.

+1. This guy, he gets it.

[Mattymc727]

Its pretty simple. You have to beat the best in order to be the best. If you shy away from good competition in order to build a winning record, then you actually prove noting and hurt your team going into the playoffs. Champions are tested all season long, learn from their mistakes, and build toughness/character.

UNH shouldnt be ranked at the moment. They are 1-2 with no significant win. The lesson from this should not be to schedule easier competition next time, but win those games instead. UNH can always turn it around by beating good competition down the road (thats what the CAA schedule provides).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't know where you get the falling like a rock idea from. Voters recognize the competition and as such vote accordingly. None of the teams that lost that played ranked FCS opponents did I "drop like a rock" in my poll. As to those who say if you lose you didn't belong in the first place isn't right either. Only if you get piss pounded should you fall significantly. In that case it does beg the question were they ranked to high to begin with? What's the level of competition that got them that ranking in the first place? Lots of variables that go into voting and it's obviously not an exact science.

While it's true it's not an exact science, had McNeese played Minnesota and lost by that number they wouldn't even be in the running for Most Significant Loss. They'd probably remain at the exact same spot in the poll, perhaps dropping a spot.

That won't happen this week since they played Northern Iowa instead. And I'd take UNI six times out of ten against Minnesota if they played head-to-head.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Its pretty simple. You have to beat the best in order to be the best. If you shy away from good competition in order to build a winning record, then you actually prove noting and hurt your team going into the playoffs. Champions are tested all season long, learn from their mistakes, and build toughness/character.

UNH shouldnt be ranked at the moment. They are 1-2 with no significant win. The lesson from this should not be to schedule easier competition next time, but win those games instead. UNH can always turn it around by beating good competition down the road (thats what the CAA schedule provides).

Unless you scheduled a trip to Penn State instead of Lehigh. Then you'd be a Top 20 team with a 1-2 record rather than being in the "are they overrated?" debate.

You'd also get $$$ for the privilege.

[MSUBobcat]

His point is ALWAYS "Lehigh doesn't get the respect it deserves".

Yup


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCVR_ajL_Eo

[Twentysix]

Ummm, what??

When two high ranked opponents play each other one of them has to win. Do you really not understand this? I personally don't drop teams that far when they lose ranked match-ups. EWU isn't even on the radar for biggest loss, who the hell would state that?

That's kinda true, I disagree in the fact that UNI curb stomping Mcneese should make McNeese drop pretty considerably, same with last year and NDSU vs YSU. That curbstomping justified a huge drop.

When one team, say #1 or #4, beats #3 or #9 the same way #1 would beat #122, that's saying something.

The end result of UNI vs Mcneese looked like the end result of NDSU vs Lafayette.

All the EWU SHSU game showed me, was that SHSU is a little better than EWU. EWU probably is only a top 10 program where as SHSU is probably a top 5er.

[superman7515]

Please stop. Lehigh and Delaware cannot control who they play in conference.

Lehigh and Delaware absolutely can control who they play in conference considering there is no law forcing them to remain in the conferences they are currently aligned with.

[gotts]

That's kinda true, I disagree in the fact that UNI curb stomping Mcneese should make McNeese drop pretty considerably, same with last year and NDSU vs YSU. That curbstomping justified a huge drop.

This. If a top 10 team is a top 10 team, they shouldn't lose by 5 scores to another top 10 team.

[MSUBobcat]

Unless you scheduled a trip to Penn State instead of Lehigh. Then you'd be a Top 20 team with a 1-2 record rather than being in the "are they overrated?" debate.

You'd also get $$$ for the privilege.

Is there even a debate that UNH was overrated at 7-11? I'd like to hear the argument that they were not ranked too high.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This. If a top 10 team is a top 10 team, they shouldn't lose by 5 scores to another top 10 team.

But they can lose to UMass by 5 scores and nothing will happen to their ranking.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Is there even a debate that UNH was overrated at 7-11? I'd like to hear the argument that they were not ranked too high.

Had they played Penn State and lost there would be no debate.

[superman7515]

But they can lose to UMass by 5 scores and nothing will happen to their ranking.

Perhaps my optimist is showing, but if an FCS team lost to UMass or Georgia State, I would think that the voters here would have enough knowledge to understand that is the same as losing to a middling (or worse GaSt) FCS team and not treat it the same way.

[gotts]

But they can lose to UMass by 5 scores and nothing will happen to their ranking.

How many axes do you have to grind?

Show me on the doll where "'big conference' FCS football" touched you...

[MSUBobcat]

But they can lose to UMass by 5 scores and nothing will happen to their ranking.

Now I know you are delusional. Getting a beat down by UMass would definitely hurt your AGS ranking.

[Mattymc727]

Unless you scheduled a trip to Penn State instead of Lehigh. Then you'd be a Top 20 team with a 1-2 record rather than being in the "are they overrated?" debate.

You'd also get $$$ for the privilege.

Some schools do choose to do that (Towson last year), you just have to be careful that you dont bite off more than you can chew.

[Twentysix]

Is there even a debate that UNH was overrated at 7-11? I'd like to hear the argument that they were not ranked too high.

At no point in this "season" did UNH make my top 25. Ever. They shouldn't have made anyone's imo...

[katstrapper]

Isnt it funny that every time Sam Houston gets blasted for their "weak OOC" and "how they shouldnt be considered for being ranked where they are", Coach Fritz and the Kats answer the bell in a tough match up more often then not. (of course we all know that NDSU has been the achilles heel)

[HensRock]

Coming from a program that has Wagner, Jacksonville and Delaware State as their OOC this is especially rich.
You give me WAY too much credit. I'm not responsible for Delaware's schedule. Ad hominem much?


Of course it's not the fact that they're in the "Most Significant Loss" column but more about what it actually represents. It means their loss is seen as significant enough to drop them quite significantly in the polls - 8-10 spots or more in many cases. And I don't think this is a non-power conference thing either.

Then using your definition, I would categorize UNH as a significant loss because I had them ranked and now I do not. I did not have JMU or UD ranked, so the outcome of that game is not significant.

Just an observation: If you are worried about where your team is ranked in the polls at this point in the season, you care far too much about what other people think. Why not just let the season play out and see what happens? It's far more satisfying when someone else notices that your team is pretty good without you constantly reminding them of it.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Lehigh and Delaware absolutely can control who they play in conference considering there is no law forcing them to remain in the conferences they are currently aligned with.

Derp derp....Peer institutions....derp.


Can't you see? Lehigh is just BETTER than you.....including football if you think about it REAL HARD.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just an observation: If you are worried about where your team is ranked in the polls at this point in the season, you care far too much about what other people think. Why not just let the season play out and see what happens? It's far more satisfying when someone else notices that your team is pretty good without you constantly reminding them of it.

I think people are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm trying to look at this from New Hampshire's POV. They are getting drilled here because they lost to a nationally-ranked team on the road by a touchdown - and a game where they were in position to tie the game in the final minute.

That is very, very different that McNeese getting outplayed in every phase by UNI.

It's very telling that people are considering UNH's razor-thin loss to Lehigh in the same breath as McNeese's beatdown. And SDSU's beatdown at home is barely even mentioned.

[Twentysix]

I think people are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm trying to look at this from New Hampshire's POV. They are getting drilled here because they lost to a nationally-ranked team on the road by a touchdown - and a game where they were in position to tie the game in the final minute.

That is very, very different that McNeese getting outplayed in every phase by UNI.

It's very telling that people are considering UNH's razor-thin loss to Lehigh in the same breath as McNeese's beatdown. And SDSU's beatdown at home is barely even mentioned.

Lol??? Isn't like every conference game one of those? Is that a big deal to people in the PL? Being ranked 25 or ORV? lololol

Is this the same poll that has Illinois State at #24? lololol, you made my morning.

[HensRock]

Please stop. Lehigh and Delaware cannot control who they play in conference. Our OOC slate includes New Hampshire. Where's Delaware's nationally-ranked team in their OOC?


Are SERIOUSLY going to put UNH up against Navy and claim you have a tougher OOC schedule? And you wonder why no one is listening to you from your Lehigh-is-getting-screwed soapbox!

[PAllen]

Lehigh and Delaware absolutely can control who they play in conference considering there is no law forcing them to remain in the conferences they are currently aligned with.

Damnit, I know we have that BIG 10 invite laying around here somewhere..xrotatehx

[MSUBobcat]

Had they played Penn State and lost there would be no debate.

Hypotheticals aren't an argument that the real UNH team is not a 7-11 team. If UNH lost by 7 (and led for much of the game) to a 3-1 Penn State team, you are right, they wouldn't drop much. Lehigh is NOT equivalent to Penn Statexrolleyesx

[Dane96]

NM

[Dane96]

I think people are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm trying to look at this from New Hampshire's POV. They are getting drilled here because they lost to a nationally-ranked team on the road by a touchdown - and a game where they were in position to tie the game in the final minute.

That is very, very different that McNeese getting outplayed in every phase by UNI.

It's very telling that people are considering UNH's razor-thin loss to Lehigh in the same breath as McNeese's beatdown. And SDSU's beatdown at home is barely even mentioned.

No...they are getting drilled because:

1. They were ranked by many based on a close loss to Central Michigan (who know appears to be a really, really, really bad FBS teams) and a win over Colgate, which is a REALLY, REALLY, REALLY bad FCS teams.
2. Early season rankings are turbulent because teams with "history" are given the benefit of the doubt.
3. A Top 15 ranking of UNH was a product of 1 and 2.
4. Lehigh, at best is a Top 22-30 team.
5. Other teams have proven themselves to be deserving of a ranking.

You put ALL of that together...and you go to rank UNH, and you say to yourself, "Sheeeeeeeeet, UNH doesn't belong in The Top 25 and now I am forced to drop them out from a high ranking...heck, that's SIGNFICANT!"

See. Easy peasy logic.

[Nova09]

Some schools do choose to do that (Towson last year), you just have to be careful that you dont bite off more than you can chew.

Well there you have it, one post, one sentence completely obliterating LFN's 2 biggest points of the past 10 months. To recap:

LFN claimed playing and losing to FBS would have been better than playing and beating FCS. In fact, he claimed not playing FBS is the reason Lehigh was not in playoffs. But Towson played 2 FBS, and still didn't make the playoffs (in fact the extra loss kept them out). Youngstown played and beat FBS, yet didn't make playoffs. So LFN argument does not hold up.

Now, LFN claims playing and losing to FBS would be better than playing and losing to ranked FCS. Maybe some truth to this if it is an either/or, but scheduling multiple FBS puts FCS team at disadvantage (see Towson). If you are a top team and want to prove that, play competitively against FBS opponent and then make a statement with a win against a ranked FCS opponent. The issue isn't that playing ranked opponents is dumb, it's that a team is ultimately judged by what they accomplish. A loss is not an accomplishment.

That pesky Towson team just keeps undermining LFN's wild proclamations about scheduling your way into the playoffs.

[MSUBobcat]

No...they are getting drilled because:

1. They were ranked by many based on a close loss to Central Michigan (who know appears to be a really, really, really bad FBS teams) and a win over Colgate, which is a REALLY, REALLY, REALLY bad FCS teams.
2. Early season rankings are turbulent because teams with "history" are given the benefit of the doubt.
3. A Top 15 ranking of UNH was a product of 1 and 2.
4. Lehigh, at best is a Top 22-30 team.
5. Other teams have proven themselves to be deserving of a ranking.

You put ALL of that together...and you go to rank UNH, and you say to yourself, "Sheeeeeeeeet, UNH doesn't belong in The Top 25 and now I am forced to drop them out from a high ranking...heck, that's SIGNFICANT!"

See. Easy peasy logic.

xoutofrepx

[Fordham]

I'd say losing to Lehigh is ALWAYS a significant loss - It means you probably wouldn't make it out of the first round of the playoffs and should seriously consider firing the coach. SWAC, MEAC, Patriot, Pioneer, NEC, and Ivy conferences are what's wrong at the bottom end of D1 Football. Efforts to require scholarship minimums for I-AA/FCS have always been shot down by those schools.


xeyebrowx

[CFBfan]

Lehigh Football Nation;2018968]I think people are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm trying to look at this from New Hampshire's POV[/B]. They are getting drilled here because they lost to a nationally-ranked team on the road by a touchdown - and a game where they were in position to tie the game in the final minute.

That is very, very different that McNeese getting outplayed in every phase by UNI.

It's very telling that people are considering UNH's razor-thin loss to Lehigh in the same breath as McNeese's beatdown. And SDSU's beatdown at home is barely even mentioned.

C'mon lfn be honest becasue it's so obvious you ARE looking at it from a LEHIGH POV!!! you are bent out of shape because MOST if not everyone but you and a few LU posters views UNH's loss as a big upset thus saying that LU's win was a big surprise and they aren't as good as you CONSTANTLY claim they are!! You post about it on a daily basis. Let others sing your praise and back off a little

[CHIP72]

Lehigh Football Nation - in all seriousness you're making all of us who are Lehigh, Patriot League, and/or non-"power conference" FCS conference fans look bad. Lehigh's win at home over New Hampshire was a good win, but all objective measures based on what has happened so far this season it hasn't been validated yet as a really good win. That could change if New Hampshire has a good season.

New Hampshire's bigger problem is they lost to a poor FBS/Division I-A (and more to the point, a poor non-BCS conference FBS) team, which in all honesty is not a good loss if you are a good FCS team. UNH also only has one win so far this year, over a team that is much weaker (at least so far) than anyone expected. It is possible New Hampshire may not be that strong this year. I do think they'll need to step up their play in CAA games if they want to be competitive in the CAA.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Funny how a close loss to an FBS team, one that has never ever been floated before anywhere as a justification for keeping a team out of the Top 25, is now being dredged up as a reason to drop New Hampshire out of the Top 25 simply because they lost to Lehigh.

By that logic, Montana State should drop out of the Top 25 because SMU is horrible.

[Dane96]

Did you get everything you wanted at as child...I mean did people simply capitulate to you just to stop your complaining?

For the record, I have Lehigh in my Top 25...and Fordham deep in my Top 10.

But now you are simply arguing to argue.

[HensRock]

I think people are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm trying to look at this from New Hampshire's POV. They are getting drilled here because they lost to a nationally-ranked team on the road by a touchdown - and a game where they were in position to tie the game in the final minute.

That is very, very different that McNeese getting outplayed in every phase by UNI.

It's very telling that people are considering UNH's razor-thin loss to Lehigh in the same breath as McNeese's beatdown. And SDSU's beatdown at home is barely even mentioned.

No one is misunderstanding what you are saying. You just seem to be the only one on the board (including other Lehigh fans) who missed the part where..

UNI >>> Lehigh

So it is completely appropriate to compare UNI's complete beatdown of McNeese to UNH's "razor thin" loss to Lehigh.

On the other hand SDSU's loss was fairly expected. Some have asked if it is because NDSU is such a juggernaut - I say - well... YES! I don't know about Vegas or 5-dimes or even Sagarin, but Born had NDSU as a 22 point favorite in that game even though SDSU was a nationally ranked opponent and playing at home. So in my eyes, the Jacks did well to hold them to 20.

P.S. What nationally ranked team did UNH lose to? Did I miss something?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Did you get everything you wanted at as child...I mean did people simply capitulate to you just to stop your complaining?

BELIEVE me that never happened.

[Dane96]

Yup...the SDSU loss isn't bad...at all. In fact, they barely dropped in my poll and only because some other things broke for other teams.

SDSU losing 20-0 to NDSU is just fine. It simply means there offense wasn't on track. Heck...if you hold the #1 team and back/back champion to 20 points...you are in a ball game. Looking at the stats...gaining 132 yards against NDSU is what killed SDSU. That said, NDSU is only giving up 240 or so a game.

Now, if SDSU loses in the near future...people will tend to question their 3-1 FCS record (throwing out the Nebraska crushing).

[Twentysix]

No one is misunderstanding what you are saying. You just seem to be the only one on the board (including other Lehigh fans) who missed the part where..

UNI >>> Lehigh

So it is completely appropriate to compare UNI's complete beatdown of McNeese to UNH's "razor thin" loss to Lehigh.

On the other hand SDSU's loss was fairly expected. Some have asked if it is because NDSU is such a juggernaut - I say - well... YES! I don't know about Vegas or 5-dimes or even Sagarin, but Born had NDSU as a 22 point favorite in that game even though SDSU was a nationally ranked opponent. So in my eyes, the Jacks did well to hold them to 20.

The jacks were extremely competitive until the TOP was just insane. NDSU had essentially 21 points in the last like 12 minutes of the game, we left 7 on the field by kneeling on the 3 or the 4 to end the game.

7-0 vs NDSU for 47 minutes is extremely impressive.

[Twentysix]

Yup...the SDSU loss isn't bad...at all. In fact, they barely dropped in my poll and only because some other things broke for other teams.

SDSU losing 20-0 to NDSU is just fine. It simply means there offense wasn't on track. Heck...if you hold the #1 team and back/back champion to 20 points...you are in a ball game.

Its not even that it was only 20-0, it was 7-0 for 47 minutes.

We made a BCS team's wheels fall off, I don't see how you can get that upset at SDSU.



Possession

40:20 NDSU

19:40SDSU

[CHIP72]

Well there you have it, one post, one sentence completely obliterating LFN's 2 biggest points of the past 10 months. To recap:

LFN claimed playing and losing to FBS would have been better than playing and beating FCS. In fact, he claimed not playing FBS is the reason Lehigh was not in playoffs. But Towson played 2 FBS, and still didn't make the playoffs (in fact the extra loss kept them out). Youngstown played and beat FBS, yet didn't make playoffs. So LFN argument does not hold up.

I'd add that if one objectively broke down the schedules for the 2012 CAA playoff contenders, as I did in this thread (see Post #109) (www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?124222-New-Hampshire-over-Towson/page11), Towson almost definitely had a stronger argument for making the playoffs than New Hampshire (and for that matter Richmond and possibly Villanova), yet was not selected to make the playoffs. That was likely due to the fact Towson's overall record was poorer, even if its schedule was tougher and quality of wins were better.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No one is misunderstanding what you are saying. You just seem to be the only one on the board (including other Lehigh fans) who missed the part where..

UNI >>> Lehigh

So it is completely appropriate to compare UNI's complete beatdown of McNeese to UNH's "razor thin" loss to Lehigh.

On the other hand SDSU's loss was fairly expected. Some have asked if it is because NDSU is such a juggernaut - I say - well... YES! I don't know about Vegas or 5-dimes or even Sagarin, but Born had NDSU as a 22 point favorite in that game even though SDSU was a nationally ranked opponent. So in my eyes, the Jacks did well to hold them to 20.

I thought SDSU would give NDSU a much better game, personally. They didn't drop that far on my poll because NDSU is a juggernaut, like you say. They did drop, though.

When did I ever claim Lehigh was as good as UNI? For the record I still have McNeese above Lehigh, showing I give big props to both sides of that equation.

[Mattymc727]

Another measuring stick for UNH is this weekend @ Towson. If UNH were to miraculously win, or remain competitive throughout, then perhaps Lehigh is indeed underrated. The Lehigh/UNH game didnt prove that Lehigh is a top 20 team, but rather that UNH is not.

Threads like these make my head spin. In my head everything makes perfect sense, but trying to break it down to an elementary level is really hard. Its like trying to tell old people how the internet works.

[Twentysix]

Another measuring stick for UNH is this weekend @ Towson. If UNH were to miraculously win, or remain competitive throughout, then perhaps Lehigh is indeed underrated. The Lehigh didnt prove that Lehigh is a top 20 team, but rather that UNH is not.

Threads like these make my head spin. In my head everything makes perfect sense, but trying to break it down to an elementary level is really hard. Its like trying to tell old people how the internet works.

How about you tell me how television signals are sent through the air and reinterpreted into pictures by a circuit board. Really break it down :p.

TV=magic AGS rankings=magic

[Twentysix]

BELIEVE me that never happened.

You went to a school that is more than $50,000 a year, it's not that hard to believe. You can literally get an entire B.A. from NDSU for what one semester at Lehigh costs.

[Dane96]

LFN-

O.k...so what is your argument in this--now 6 page--thread; That UNH should losing to Lehigh should not be significant.

You have been handed a few long...and many short arguments to defend the "UNH losing (not to whom...but LOSING) this week was significant", line of reasoning.

Please clearly state why those arguments are wrong and then maybe we will understand why you think UNH is getting hosed?! Please rebuke the arguments. I am being serious...not sarcastic.

[MSUBobcat]

Funny how a close loss to an FBS team, one that has never ever been floated before anywhere as a justification for keeping a team out of the Top 25, is now being dredged up as a reason to drop New Hampshire out of the Top 25 simply because they lost to Lehigh.

By that logic, Montana State should drop out of the Top 25 because SMU is horrible.

What's funny to me is that you either have incredibly poor reading comprehension or simply choose to ignore any post contrary to your "Lehigh gets no respect" ramblings. UNH is dropping because they haven't PROVED anything. Lost to a horrible CMU team (CMU's only win this season), beat an even more horrible Colgate team (winless this year), lose to a ranked or unranked Lehigh team, depending on the poll (unranked in AGS, which most here give the most credence to). Their resume to date is not a top 25 resume and thus voters' eyes have been opened and UNH will likely fall more than any other team this week. Not because of losing to Lehigh, but because of what they have (or have not) accomplished this year. This can change as they start their CAA grind, but as of now a 14 spot fall out of the rankings wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN-

O.k...so what is your argument in this--now 6 page--thread; That UNH should losing to Lehigh should not be significant.

You have been handed a few long...and many short arguments to defend the "UNH losing (not to whom...but LOSING) this week was significant", line of reasoning.

Please clearly state why those arguments are wrong and then maybe we will understand why you think UNH is getting hosed?! Please rebuke the arguments. I am being serious...not sarcastic.

1. UNH played a Top 25 team on the road, lost by a touchdown, and was in position to put the game to OT in the final minute of the game.

2. Two losses, one to an FBS team and another to a Top 25 FCS team, have been a benefit of the doubt given to countless FCS teams over the years. Not that I'm saying they are equivalent, but EWU has a loss against an FBS team and an FCS Top 25 team yet are a consensus Top 10 pick, and still a Top 5 pick in many people's eyes. South Dakota State, Montana State, Central Arkansas - all Top 25 teams with an FBS loss and a Top 25 loss, yet in almost all cases they're seen as no-doubt-about-it Top 25 teams.

3. Both those losses were the definition of "close losses", less than a score and in doubt in the final minute. These were not games where UNH was overmatched in any way, shape or form. By virtue of the scholarship advantage (CMU) or the national ranking (Lehigh), these are quality matchups.

4. Never before in the annals of AGS has the justification for dropping a team out of the Top 25 involved the fact that they lost to an FBS team. Only, somehow, after playing Lehigh is this being dredged up as a reason. Following this logic, Montana State has no place in the Top 25 because they lost to an awful SMU team.

[Twentysix]

1. UNH played a Top 25 team on the road, lost by a touchdown, and was in position to put the game to OT in the final minute of the game.

2. Two losses, one to an FBS team and another to a Top 25 FCS team, have been a benefit of the doubt given to countless FCS teams over the years. Not that I'm saying they are equivalent, but EWU has a loss against an FBS team and an FCS Top 25 team yet are a consensus Top 10 pick, and still a Top 5 pick in many people's eyes. South Dakota State, Montana State, Central Arkansas - all Top 25 teams with an FBS loss and a Top 25 loss, yet in almost all cases they're seen as no-doubt-about-it Top 25 teams.

3. Both those losses were the definition of "close losses", less than a score and in doubt in the final minute. These were not games where UNH was overmatched in any way, shape or form. By virtue of the scholarship advantage (CMU) or the national ranking (Lehigh), these are quality matchups.

4. Never before in the annals of AGS has the justification for dropping a team out of the Top 25 involved the fact that they lost to an FBS team. Only, somehow, after playing Lehigh is this being dredged up as a reason. Following this logic, Montana State has no place in the Top 25 because they lost to an awful SMU team.


UCA is not a top 25 team until they prove they are, they had the benefit of the doubt in week 1 and 2 and were dropped after that.

NDSU/SHSU =\= Lehigh
For a this year FBS analogy.
NDSU=Alabama SHSU=Oklahoma Lehigh=Iowa, maybe; get it..

[CHIP72]

LFN - early season poll rankings are often based on the previous year's (or previous years') results. Just because a team is ranked early in the season does not automatically mean that team is good.

We also need to keep in mind that Lehigh had a mount a massive rally at home to beat a Central Connecticut State team that I think (without looking it up) is 1-4. Winning like that isn't the mark of a really good team (especially if that team has a number of other close wins over so-so competition); it is the mark of a team that is a decent but still has a lot to prove.

If Lehigh beats Fordham on the road this week, I guarantee you Lehigh will gain (and will have earned) a lot more respect.

[Dane96]

1. UNH played a Top 25 team on the road, lost by a touchdown, and was in position to put the game to OT in the final minute of the game.

2. Two losses, one to an FBS team and another to a Top 25 FCS team, have been a benefit of the doubt given to countless FCS teams over the years. Not that I'm saying they are equivalent, but EWU has a loss against an FBS team and an FCS Top 25 team yet are a consensus Top 10 pick, and still a Top 5 pick in many people's eyes. South Dakota State, Montana State, Central Arkansas - all Top 25 teams with an FBS loss and a Top 25 loss, yet in almost all cases they're seen as no-doubt-about-it Top 25 teams.

3. Both those losses were the definition of "close losses", less than a score and in doubt in the final minute. These were not games where UNH was overmatched in any way, shape or form. By virtue of the scholarship advantage (CMU) or the national ranking (Lehigh), these are quality matchups.

4. Never before in the annals of AGS has the justification for dropping a team out of the Top 25 involved the fact that they lost to an FBS team. Only, somehow, after playing Lehigh is this being dredged up as a reason. Following this logic, Montana State has no place in the Top 25 because they lost to an awful SMU team.

The bold, I believe needs to be proved to all of us. I'd suggest that you really think about that statement.

In addition, if UNH dropped more than 8 spots--give or take--AND stayed in the Poll, would that not be considered a Significant Loss? What exactly is the number of spots a team has to drop for it to be in the running for significant loss? Meaning, UNH could go from 10 to 20...and that's significant.

[Dane96]

LFN - early season poll rankings are often based on the previous year's (or previous years') results. Just because a team is ranked early in the season does not automatically mean that team is good.

We also need to keep in mind that Lehigh had a mount a massive rally at home to beat a Central Connecticut State team that I think (without looking it up) is 1-4. Winning like that isn't the mark of a really good team (especially if that team has a number of other close wins over so-so competition); it is the mark of a team that is a decent but still has a lot to prove.

If Lehigh beats Fordham on the road this week, I guarantee you Lehigh will gain (and will have earned) a lot more respect.

But herein lies the crux of the problem-- LFN is tying UNH's drop to Lehigh. This is simply only true if you are defending LEHIGH as a a team worthy of a ranking. UNH's drop has NOTHING to do with Lehigh but is SOLELY tied to the fact that their ONLY win is against an AWFUL Colgate team. That ONLY win is arguably worth of MAYBE a 22-25 ranking....at BEST!

[gotts]

This is hilarious how much lobbying is going on for a team that someone beat just so it looks better on the resume of the team that beat them!

[Twentysix]

But herein lies the crux of the problem-- LFN is tying UNH's drop to Lehigh. This is simply only true if you are defending LEHIGH as a a team worthy of a ranking. UNH's drop has NOTHING to do with Lehigh but is SOLELY tied to the fact that their ONLY win is against an AWFUL Colgate team. That ONLY win is arguably worth of MAYBE a 22-25 ranking....at BEST!

UNH is a paper tiger, it just took some people longer than others to figure that out.

[Dane96]

UCA is not a top 25 team until they prove they are, they had the benefit of the doubt in week 1 and 2 and were dropped after that.

NDSU/SHSU =\= Lehigh
For a this year FBS analogy.
NDSU=Alabama SHSU=Oklahoma Lehigh=Iowa, maybe; get it..

Exactly-- I don't have UCA sniffing my polls for the same reasoning as exactly in this comment!!!!

xoutofrepxxoutofrepx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But herein lies the crux of the problem-- LFN is tying UNH's drop to Lehigh. This is simply only true if you are defending LEHIGH as a a team worthy of a ranking. UNH's drop has NOTHING to do with Lehigh but is SOLELY tied to the fact that their ONLY win is against an AWFUL Colgate team. That ONLY win is arguably worth of MAYBE a 22-25 ranking....at BEST!

Explain Montana State, then.

Their only win came against Monmouth (a team Lehigh also beat), D-II Colorado Mesa State whomever, and an awful North Dakota team.

They lost to SMU, a 1-3 FBS team you can argue is awful, and Stephen F. Austin, whose lofty 2-3 record includes losses to Prairie View A&M and one-win Weber State.

How come Montana State's fate is not similarly tied to Stephen F. Austin? Or North Dakota's record?

[gotts]

So Lehigh is better than even UTC?

[MSUBobcat]

But herein lies the crux of the problem-- LFN is tying UNH's drop to Lehigh. This is simply only true if you are defending LEHIGH as a a team worthy of a ranking. UNH's drop has NOTHING to do with Lehigh but is SOLELY tied to the fact that their ONLY win is against an AWFUL Colgate team. That ONLY win is arguably worth of MAYBE a 22-25 ranking....at BEST!

Exactly. Body of work = appropriate ranking.

[Twentysix]

Explain Montana State, then.

Their only win came against Monmouth (a team Lehigh also beat), D-II Colorado Mesa State whomever, and an awful North Dakota team.

They lost to SMU, a 1-3 FBS team you can argue is awful, and Stephen F. Austin, whose lofty 2-3 record includes losses to Prairie View A&M and one-win Weber State.

How come Montana State's fate is not similarly tied to Stephen F. Austin? Or North Dakota's record?

Go home, your drunk.

[MSUBobcat]

This is hilarious how much lobbying is going on for a team that someone beat just so it looks better on the resume of the team that beat them!

Exactly. I think we are getting down to the true motivation for this thread. Not that UNH was overrated, but that this qualifies as a "quality win" for Lehigh and they should skyrocket in the polls.

[wapiti]

1. UNH played a Top 25 team on the road, lost by a touchdown, and was in position to put the game to OT in the final minute of the game.

2. Two losses, one to an FBS team and another to a Top 25 FCS team, have been a benefit of the doubt given to countless FCS teams over the years. Not that I'm saying they are equivalent, but EWU has a loss against an FBS team and an FCS Top 25 team yet are a consensus Top 10 pick, and still a Top 5 pick in many people's eyes. South Dakota State, Montana State, Central Arkansas - all Top 25 teams with an FBS loss and a Top 25 loss, yet in almost all cases they're seen as no-doubt-about-it Top 25 teams.

3. Both those losses were the definition of "close losses", less than a score and in doubt in the final minute. These were not games where UNH was overmatched in any way, shape or form. By virtue of the scholarship advantage (CMU) or the national ranking (Lehigh), these are quality matchups.

4. Never before in the annals of AGS has the justification for dropping a team out of the Top 25 involved the fact that they lost to an FBS team. Only, somehow, after playing Lehigh is this being dredged up as a reason. Following this logic, Montana State has no place in the Top 25 because they lost to an awful SMU team.


Has LFN been hacked by Chatownmocs???

Are you voting in the AGS poll? If so, then do not put MSU in your poll and you just as well put Lehigh as a top 5 team.

Also, if Lehigh wants to improve its strength of schedule, it will need to change conference membership.
Yes, playing New Hampshire in OOC did improve it a bit, but not by much. Lehigh needs to show it is winning their conference games easily and not just squeeking by.
Especially when their conference mates are not even receiving votes in any of the polls.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Has LFN been hacked by Chatownmocs???

Are you voting in the AGS poll? If so, then do not put MSU in your poll and you just as well put Lehigh as a top 5 team.

Also, if Lehigh wants to improve its strength of schedule, it will need to change conference membership.
Yes, playing New Hampshire in OOC did improve it a bit, but not by much. Lehigh needs to show it is winning their conference games easily and not just squeeking by.
Especially when their conference mates are not even receiving votes in any of the polls.

I have Montana State in my poll, ahead of Lehigh.

Montana State should be in the Top 25. So should New Hampshire, if people applied the same logic to them as they do to Montana State.

[eaglewraith]

God, I've never seen someone need a case of Summer's Eve to get all the sand out of their vagina.

Stop giving this message board AIDS with this dumb argument, or I'll turn this into a Spiderman thread.

[Lehigh'98]

C'mon lfn be honest becasue it's so obvious you ARE looking at it from a LEHIGH POV!!! you are bent out of shape because MOST if not everyone but you and a few LU posters views UNH's loss as a big upset thus saying that LU's win was a big surprise and they aren't as good as you CONSTANTLY claim they are!! You post about it on a daily basis. Let others sing your praise and back off a little

This....If we didn't have posters constantly claiming we deserve respect and let the on field play decide that, Lehigh would be looked upon as a tough team that wins and has had some success instead of a Napolean complex school (at least on this board).

[MSUBobcat]

Explain Montana State, then.

Their only win came against Monmouth (a team Lehigh also beat), D-II Colorado Mesa State whomever, and an awful North Dakota team.

They lost to SMU, a 1-3 FBS team you can argue is awful, and Stephen F. Austin, whose lofty 2-3 record includes losses to Prairie View A&M and one-win Weber State.

How come Montana State's fate is not similarly tied to Stephen F. Austin? Or North Dakota's record?

Don't rank them. I don't cry over polls like you do. I'll let the season and subsequent playoffs sort it out.

But if you are going to berate MSU's schedule, you should note that MSU destroyed Monmouth, a team LU needed late game heroics to beat by 3, held CSU-Mesa scoreless, and dominated UND. They also "lost" by 1 to SMU on a last second TD aided by a very questionable PI call on a 2nd and 16 with SMU deep in its end. And they lost to SFA because the backup is nowhere near the QB that DM is (down 7 in the 4th, he through a pick 6, his 4th INT of the game). DM is back again. MSU would crush CCSU and Princeton, so if you want Lehigh to be ranked, I guess it's only fair that MSU is ahead of them.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This....If we didn't have posters constantly claiming we deserve respect and let the on field play decide that, Lehigh would be looked upon as a tough team that wins and has had some success instead of a Napolean complex school (at least on this board).

If we didn't have posters here representing Lehigh we'd be shunted to the irrelevancy of the PFL and Ivy Leagues. Heck, people might still believe they don't offer scholarships. Losses to Lehigh would be considered the same as losing to Drake, or Valparaiso.

[Dane96]

Explain Montana State, then.

Their only win came against Monmouth (a team Lehigh also beat), D-II Colorado Mesa State whomever, and an awful North Dakota team.

They lost to SMU, a 1-3 FBS team you can argue is awful, and Stephen F. Austin, whose lofty 2-3 record includes losses to Prairie View A&M and one-win Weber State.

How come Montana State's fate is not similarly tied to Stephen F. Austin? Or North Dakota's record?

I would argue you are correct. However...you are talking two different conversation's here: 1) Is about where/if MSU and UNH should be ranked; and 2) Should UNH's loss be significant in terms of THIS week.

See?!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They also "lost" by 1 to SMU on a last second TD aided by a very questionable PI call on a 2nd and 16 with SMU deep in its end. And they lost to SFA because the backup is nowhere near the QB that DM is (down 7 in the 4th, he through a pick 6, his 4th INT of the game).

This sounds nothing like... exactly what people are criticizing UNH about, losing late to an FBS team and losing on the road to an AGS-lightly-regarded FCS team. xlolx

[CFBfan]

If we didn't have posters here representing Lehigh we'd be shunted to the irrelevancy of the PFL and Ivy Leagues. Heck, people might still believe they don't offer scholarships. Losses to Lehigh would be considered the same as losing to Drake, or Valparaiso.

with every post you drag yourself deeper into irrelevance lfn

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I would argue you are correct. However...you are talking two different conversation's here: 1) Is about where/if MSU and UNH should be ranked; and 2) Should UNH's loss be significant in terms of THIS week.

See?!

I do.

What I am saying is that Montana State and UNH both deserve to be ranked. UNH's loss to Lehigh is significant, but IMO should not be significant enough to drop them out of the Top 25.

[HensRock]

Exactly. I think we are getting down to the true motivation for this thread. Not that UNH was overrated, but that this qualifies as a "quality win" for Lehigh and they should skyrocket in the polls.

Yeah,
Lehigh would have been better off if they lost and kept it close!
LOL

[HensRock]

If we didn't have posters here representing Lehigh we'd be shunted to the irrelevancy of the PFL and Ivy Leagues. Heck, people might still believe they don't offer scholarships. Losses to Lehigh would be considered the same as losing to Drake, or Valparaiso.

Yeah, just like Fordham - oh wait!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yeah, just like Fordham - oh wait!

Yeah, maybe they'd be ranked in the national polls over the team they beat, Villanova - oh wait!

[Lehigh'98]

If we didn't have posters here representing Lehigh we'd be shunted to the irrelevancy of the PFL and Ivy Leagues. Heck, people might still believe they don't offer scholarships. Losses to Lehigh would be considered the same as losing to Drake, or Valparaiso.

Not true. Our on field play and victories in the playoffs is enough for most to recognize we are a decent program. I don't go around telling everyone how good Delaware is ( I hate Delaware btw) but I recognize they are a quality program. I don't really expect other fans to shout our praises, only to recognize that most likely we won't be an easy out.

[MSUBobcat]

This sounds nothing like... exactly what people are criticizing UNH about, losing late to an FBS team and losing on the road to an AGS-lightly-regarded FCS team. xlolx

Except that Monmouth has wins and almost beat Lehigh, while Colgate does not... MU>Colgate
MSU did what it should have against a D-II school, winning 26-0 even with the backup QB.
MSU crushed a weak UND team.

The scoreboard said we lost late to SMU, but those who watched it know that probably wasn't the case. Pretty sketchy PI call.
SFA was unfortunate, but if DM had played the outcome could have been very different. And McGhee is already back from injury. If McGhee goes back down to injury, our ranking will also.

The 2 scenarios are not the same. However, both teams are now entering tough conference play and both have the opportunity to prove or disprove their ranking.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Except that Monmouth has wins and almost beat Lehigh, while Colgate does not... MU>Colgate
MSU did what it should have against a D-II school, winning 26-0 even with the backup QB.
MSU crushed a weak UND team.

The scoreboard said we lost late to SMU, but those who watched it know that probably wasn't the case. Pretty sketchy PI call.
SFA was unfortunate, but if DM had played the outcome could have been very different. And McGhee is already back from injury. If McGhee goes back down to injury, our ranking will also.

The 2 scenarios are not the same. However, both teams are now entering tough conference play and both have the opportunity to prove or disprove their ranking.

True.

Just two more comments related to this: I think both UNH and Montana State are both Top 25 teams, I'm not saying that Montana State doesn't deserve to be up there. And nowhere on this voluminous thread did I say UNH's win over Colgate was a justification for them being ranked.

[Nova09]

Explain Montana State, then.

Their only win came against Monmouth (a team Lehigh also beat), D-II Colorado Mesa State whomever, and an awful North Dakota team.

They lost to SMU, a 1-3 FBS team you can argue is awful, and Stephen F. Austin, whose lofty 2-3 record includes losses to Prairie View A&M and one-win Weber State.

How come Montana State's fate is not similarly tied to Stephen F. Austin? Or North Dakota's record?

Wait, MSU was the most significant loss when they lost to SFA. So it was not only similarly tied, it was exactly the same way tied. What the hell are you talking about?

[MSUBobcat]

True.

Just two more comments related to this: I think both UNH and Montana State are both Top 25 teams, I'm not saying that Montana State doesn't deserve to be up there. And nowhere on this voluminous thread did I say UNH's win over Colgate was a justification for them being ranked.

So what is this thread about? The loss WAS significant (not due to who the opponent was), but because the loss dropped them to 1-2 with only a win over a horrible, winless Colgate. They dropped from 11 in AGS to 26. That's pretty f'in significant IMO.

[MSUBobcat]

Wait, MSU was the most significant loss when they lost to SFA. So it was not only similarly tied, it was exactly the same way tied. What the hell are you talking about?

Don't let little things like facts get in the way of a good LFN "we get no respect" rant.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So what is this thread about? The loss WAS significant (not due to who the opponent was), but because the loss dropped them to 1-2 with only a win over a horrible, winless Colgate. They dropped from 11 in AGS to 26. That's pretty f'in significant IMO.

They shouldn't have dropped out of the poll, IMO. If they did, if voters followed the same logic, they'd have turfed out Montana State, too.

Like I was mentioning above, I agree that the loss was significant. I don't believe it should have been significant enough to drop them out of the Top 25. Voters, however, choose their own logic even if it flies in the face of facts.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Don't let little things like facts get in the way of a good LFN "we get no respect" rant.

I find it hilarious that the people most bitchy about my writings are certain fans of teams that have holes in their W/L record or schedules.

Or that certain MSU posters with 699 posts are trying to float up the fact that New Hampshire's FBS loss to a one-win FBS team was AWFUL, yet MSU's loss to a 1 win FBS team was NOT AWFUL.

[RabidRabbit]

Lehigh is 21st with no super wins, but a good win vs UNH. UNH has no good wins, an "almost" FBS win, and a tight loss to a team 5 places higher in the AGS poll. IMHO nobody appears to have been severely moved due to a win or a loss this week.

McNeese's fall of 8, from 9 to 17 appears to be the worst. Towson, like NDSU has two quality wins. In part, the UConn coach joins SoCal coach as fired after 4 weeks, due to Towson's shaving the Huskies.

[eaglewraith]

Anyone feel like this is LFN?

http://i.imgur.com/xVXzuCn.gif

[citdog]

I find it hilarious that the people most bitchy about my writings are certain fans of teams that have holes in their W/L record or schedules..


What does who someone else roots for have to do with the blackburn lancashire sized holes in your theories? If you can't take the criticism then quit writing.

[pike51]

Maybe Lehigh should play Chattanooga for greatest team of all time bragging rights?

[HensRock]

Yeah, maybe they'd be ranked in the national polls over the team they beat, Villanova - oh wait!

Just an observation: If you are worried about where your team (or any other team) is ranked in the polls at this point in the season, you care far too much about what other people think.

Personally, I have Fordham ranked above Villanova, but that's actually irrelevant. The point is: I have them ranked and obviously, I'm not the only one to so - without any Fordham fans on AGS here constantly CAMPAIGNING for them! I can respect that, because they do their talking ON THE FIELD.

[CFBfan]

What does who someone else roots for have to do with the blackburn lancashire sized holes in your theories? If you can't take the criticism then quit writing.

+1

[MSUBobcat]

I find it hilarious that the people most bitchy about my writings are certain fans of teams that have holes in their W/L record or schedules.

Or that certain MSU posters with 699 posts are trying to float up the fact that New Hampshire's FBS loss to a one-win FBS team was AWFUL, yet MSU's loss to a 1 win FBS team was NOT AWFUL.

Wow. Making up things I never said now? You focus too much on one game when I've said over and over it the team's BODY OF WORK/RESUME that has shown they are overrated. I have never said that loss to CMU was awful, nor that MSU's loss wasn't awful (especially since I saw the game and think we kinda got a screw job, but water under the bridge).

I've also stated repeatedly on various AGS threads that I don't give 2 $h!ts about the polls at this point.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I've also stated repeatedly on various AGS threads that I don't give 2 $h!ts about the polls at this point.

Except when talking down UNH.

[HensRock]

Maybe Lehigh should play Chattanooga for greatest team of all time bragging rights?

The game would be played at Lehigh.
The Mocs would dominate for 3 quarters.
The Mountain Hawks would mount a 4th quarter comeback and win by 1.
LFN would state it's the greatest come-from-behind victory in the annals of sport. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, the intestinal fortitude of a true champion! They should be catapulted to a Top 10 ranking in the polls.
Chattownmocs would argue that since Lehigh has the home field advantage and only won by 1, that UTC is actually the better team - and besides, the zebras practically HANDED the game to Lehigh.


In short, the game would prove nothing.
But the post-game banter would be FAR more exciting than the game itself!

[Dane96]

Lehigh is 21st with no super wins, but a good win vs UNH. UNH has no good wins, an "almost" FBS win, and a tight loss to a team 5 places higher in the AGS poll. IMHO nobody appears to have been severely moved due to a win or a loss this week.

McNeese's fall of 8, from 9 to 17 appears to be the worst. Towson, like NDSU has two quality wins. In part, the UConn coach joins SoCal coach as fired after 4 weeks, due to Towson's shaving the Huskies.

Couldn't be further from the truth. Towson is a team that would beat a bunch of FBS teams right now. Buffalo...is a really bad FBS team (I watched the UConn-Buffalo game) and they destroyed UCONN.

Paul P. was fired because of the way they lost and because he has had an awful record of recent times.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The game would be played at Lehigh.
The Mocs would dominate for 3 quarters.
The Mountain Hawks would mount a 4th quarter comeback and win by 1.
LFN would state it's the greatest come-from-behind victory in the annals of sport. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, the intestinal fortitude of a true champion! They should be catapulted to a Top 10 ranking in the polls.
Chattownmocs would argue that since Lehigh has the home field advantage and only won by 1, that UTC is actually the better team - and besides, the zebras practically HANDED the game to Lehigh.


In short, the game would prove nothing.

This is great stuff. xlolx

[citdog]

Except when talking down UNH.


dude unh lost to le high........they talked THEMSELVES down.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Couldn't be further from the truth. Towson at least has a team that would beat a bunch of FBS teams right now. Buffalo...is a really bad FBS team (I watched the UConn-Buffalo game) and they destroyed UCONN.

Paul P. was fired because of the way they lost and because he has had an awful record of recent times.

Watching the end of the Towson game, UConn gave up at the end, IMO. I do think the hangover of that humiliation has hung over the program like a cloud.

[Twentysix]

The game would be played at Lehigh.
The Mocs would dominate for 3 quarters.
The Mountain Hawks would mount a 4th quarter comeback and win by 1.
LFN would state it's the greatest come-from-behind victory in the annals of sport. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, the intestinal fortitude of a true champion! They should be catapulted to a Top 10 ranking in the polls.
Chattownmocs would argue that since Lehigh has the home field advantage and only won by 1, that UTC is actually the better team - and besides, the zebras practically HANDED the game to Lehigh.


In short, the game would prove nothing.

Lol, they both remind me of 8 year olds. One has a hyperactive excuse reflex and the other has a hyperactive imagination.

[CFBfan]

They shouldn't have dropped out of the poll, IMO. If they did, if voters followed the same logic, they'd have turfed out Montana State, too.

Like I was mentioning above, I agree that the loss was significant. I don't believe it should have been significant enough to drop them out of the Top 25. Voters, however, choose their own logic even if it flies in the face of facts.

and there is the flaw in your thread ifn....your opinion!!! UNH has ONE win.....against a WINLESS Colgate!!!!
for a guy who writes about or blogs anyway about football you are rather cluesless (imo!)

Fortunately for LU the other posters on here are pretty reasonable and informed.....just ask bogie!

[MSUBobcat]

Except when talking down UNH.

Please provide a quote before today where I've ever "talked UNH down". I have a lot of respect for their program and I think it's that respect that gave them their early season rankings and now that there are some actual results to base the team on they are maybe being ranked more accurately. Still very early in the year to know just how accurate.

[heath]

Maybe Lehigh should play Chattanooga for greatest team of all time bragging rights?
Thought that was the Lehigh-Lafayette gamexlolxxrolleyesx

[CFBfan]

lfn is this really you or is mlps using your name?????

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Hahaha. Now I see mighty Georgia Southern should be on the watch list for a major bowl berth. I think you forgot a few on your list there Cliff, like Idaho and Georgia State, etc, but I'll be looking for your invite to the Fiesta Bowl to play Boise St. xlolx

I was purposefully referring to strong teams who would be I-AA/FCS if the brand was better. The manipulation of the NCAA by the P5 and conferences I mentioned have made the I-AA/FCS brand irrelevant. I think if you practice your reading and comprehension skills, you'll notice where I think many G5 schools should be I-AA and the Lehigh's should either fully fund scholarships or get out of D1

[Dane96]

Lehigh does fully fund scholarships (or will as soon as they are able under the PL phase in). Lehigh always has done well with the "counter" numbers. Cliff, your a bit off-base here.

[pike51]

The game would be played at Lehigh.
The Mocs would dominate for 3 quarters.
The Mountain Hawks would mount a 4th quarter comeback and win by 1.
LFN would state it's the greatest come-from-behind victory in the annals of sport. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, the intestinal fortitude of a true champion! They should be catapulted to a Top 10 ranking in the polls.
Chattownmocs would argue that since Lehigh has the home field advantage and only won by 1, that UTC is actually the better team - and besides, the zebras practically HANDED the game to Lehigh.


In short, the game would prove nothing.
But the post-game banter would be FAR more exciting than the game itself!


Actually, they'd have to play in Chattanooga because hosting the game is much more important than winning.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

xeyebrowx
Yes sir. There have been several efforts, the most recent in the early 2000's, to require scholarship minimums in I-AA the way they are required in I-A. SWAC, MEAC, Patriot, Pioneer, Ivy, NEC schools killed the idea. Those schools have placed limits on the potential of their own football programs and contributed to the weak brand of I-AA/FCS.

[Dane96]

Yes sir. There have been several efforts, the most recent in the early 2000's, to require scholarship minimums in I-AA the way they are required in I-A. SWAC, MEAC, Patriot, Pioneer, Ivy, NEC schools killed the idea. Those schools have placed limits on the potential of their own football programs and contributed to the weak brand of I-AA/FCS.

O.k., now you are REALLY off-base. This is COMPLETELY UNTRUE from everything I have heard, read, or has been told to me from lord knows how many sources based in differing leagues.

PLEASE PROVIDE A SOURCE.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Please provide a quote before today where I've ever "talked UNH down". I have a lot of respect for their program and I think it's that respect that gave them their early season rankings and now that there are some actual results to base the team on they are maybe being ranked more accurately. Still very early in the year to know just how accurate.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?141271-UNH-Lehigh-quot-The-Overrated-Bowl-quot&p=2018640#post2018640


IF, and that's a big IF, UNH does well in the CAA, then this is a quality win for LU. However, demolishing 'Gate, who gave Albany what could very well be their only win all year, and almost beating a bad CMU team (UNH is their only win) means UNH is not a top 25 team, IMO. They may improve, but their resume so far is awful and they were ranked too high due to their history (2011 EWU, 2012 Montana and UNI ring any bells?).

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?141271-UNH-Lehigh-quot-The-Overrated-Bowl-quot&p=2018653#post2018653


Their biggest fault is they are 1-2 with only RI and Albany as "easy" games remaining. I think it's very possible that UNH finishes below .500, which makes them not a quality win. Lots of season left though. Things can and do change quickly.

xlolx

[Walkon79]

I have Montana State in my poll, ahead of Lehigh.

Montana State should be in the Top 25. So should New Hampshire, if people applied the same logic to them as they do to Montana State.

Perhaps voters are smart enough to realize that losing to SFA may have had something to do with playing without our 4 year starter at QB. BTW, he's back folks!

[MSUBobcat]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?141271-UNH-Lehigh-quot-The-Overrated-Bowl-quot&p=2018640#post2018640



http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?141271-UNH-Lehigh-quot-The-Overrated-Bowl-quot&p=2018653#post2018653



xlolx

Oh boy, you really got me. I said those things LAST NIGHT, AFTER the the LU-UNH game, so the facts were the same 17 hours ago as they are now. My bad for saying "before today", instead of "before this loss". I feel sooooooo stupid.

BTW, neither of those quotes is really talking down UNH. I think at this point it IS a big "if" that UNH does well in the CAA, their resume IS awful right now, and it IS very possible they finish below .500. And there IS a lot of season so things CAN change. If things are true it's not exactly talking down.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

..BTW, neither of those quotes is really talking down UNH. ...

Reading is fundamental

"However, demolishing 'Gate, who gave Albany what could very well be their only win all year, and almost beating a bad CMU team (UNH is their only win) means UNH is not a top 25 team, IMO."

[MSUBobcat]

Reading is fundamental

"However, demolishing 'Gate, who gave Albany what could very well be their only win all year, and almost beating a bad CMU team (UNH is their only win) means UNH is not a top 25 team, IMO."

Given that the AGS voters proved statement with the latest poll, how is that talking down? Does that mean the AGS pollsters are talking down to UNH also???? xrotatehxxconfusedx

You are right, reading IS fundamental - you should try it. With the blinders off xsmugx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Given that the AGS voters proved statement with the latest poll, how is that talking down? Does that mean the AGS pollsters are talking down to UNH also???? xrotatehxxconfusedx

You are right, reading IS fundamental - you should try it. With the blinders off xsmugx

So because the AGS pollsters voted UNH off the island, it means your post an hour after the conclusion of the UNH/Lehigh game isn't actually talking down UNH, despite it saying (quote) UNH is not a top 25 team?

[MSUBobcat]

So because the AGS pollsters voted UNH off the island, it means your post an hour after the conclusion of the UNH/Lehigh game isn't actually talking down UNH, despite it saying (quote) UNH is not a top 25 team?

UNH IS NOT a top 25 team this week. That is a fact. Saying someone is overweight when they are, in fact, overweight is not talking down to them. It's not like I said they suck or are terrible, just not top 25, which was proven correct.

BTW, that comment was less than 24 hrs ago, and over 24 hrs AFTER the conclusion of the LU-UNH game, but go ahead and rewrite history whatever way you choose.

[LeeshaJo]

Yup...the SDSU loss isn't bad...at all. In fact, they barely dropped in my poll and only because some other things broke for other teams.

SDSU losing 20-0 to NDSU is just fine. It simply means there offense wasn't on track. Heck...if you hold the #1 team and back/back champion to 20 points...you are in a ball game. Looking at the stats...gaining 132 yards against NDSU is what killed SDSU. That said, NDSU is only giving up 240 or so a game.

Now, if SDSU loses in the near future...people will tend to question their 3-1 FCS record (throwing out the Nebraska crushing).


NDSU Beat the Rabbits from play one and in reality made a ton of uncharacteristic mistakes (two or three fumbled snaps a TON of penalties that they normally don't make, dropped passes etc) that if not for their D, would have been very costly in the game... THAT said, SDSU's D held them to 7 points for three quarters and change (I think it was about the 10 min mark when they scored the second TD). If our O (again, this has EVERYTHING to do with the BISON D) could have gotten anything going on the ground our D had us in a position to win the game. Going into the 4th quarter if I remember right The Bison were pretty even at about 140 rushing, 140 passing (they put up nearly 200 rushing in the fourth Q). Our D was on the field basically the ENTIRE game. They just plain got worn out, which (again, All the credit goes to the Bison D) allowed NDSU's offense to put up two scores in the fourth quarter. After the first half, I turned to a Jacks fan and said only down 0-7 at the half? I will take it. At that point our O had at least been able to move the ball and get some positive yardage through the air. Second half, NDSU SHUT US DOWN. If we had 30 yards positive in the second half I don't remember where it came from.

Only team I see being able to score enough to win against NDSU's D at this point is UNI (#2 in my poll) and I suspect you will see a similar result next Saturday. They are That GOOD. (As a Jacks fan I HATE TO say that.)

How can you punish a team for that result, when you don't think any other team in our Division would have as good or better result?

BTW. I do have Lehigh ranked and did move them up 8-10 spots (my poll is on my computer at home so can't remember exactly where I had them I think it was in the #17-20 range)

I guess when I am doing my poll I look at the teams, who they played, win, loss, point margin, etc... then I consider, if playing head to head, which team would win. I have moved teams up or down several slots, because even though they may have a better (or worse) record, I believe one team to be better than the other, or others.

[Bogus Megapardus]

xcoffeex xpopcornx

Fast approaching the prescribed limit on new Lehigh threads?

[Neighbor2]

Unbelievable how such a low-end, meaningless, undeserving, FCS pretender like Lehigh continues to capture the consciousness of so many fans from far better teams. I just don't get such level of concern.

[CFBfan]

Unbelievable how such a low-end, meaningless, undeserving, FCS pretender like Lehigh continues to capture the consciousness of so many fans from far better teams. I just don't get such level of concern.

oh no!!! you just laid the ground work for 100 more threads from lfn

[Neighbor2]

Actually, I'm a huge LFN fan!

[MSUBobcat]

Unbelievable how such a low-end, meaningless, undeserving, FCS pretender like Lehigh continues to capture the consciousness of so many fans from far better teams. I just don't get such level of concern.

I think very few of the posts are deriding Lehigh as much as trying to refute LFN's "no respect" claims.

[blukeys]

O.k., now you are REALLY off-base. This is COMPLETELY UNTRUE from everything I have heard, read, or has been told to me from lord knows how many sources based in differing leagues.

PLEASE PROVIDE A SOURCE.

Dane, Eagle's Cliff is right on his main point but he is not correct on the details.

We discussed these ideas at length on this site and EC is correct that the proposals were advanced about 10 years ago. The proposal to mandate a certain scholarship level in order to have a conference auto bid in the playoffs was spear headed by the OVC. Nowhere was there any discussion that a school give up the I-AA designation if they did not have the requisite number of scollies.

The first proposal was that ALL I-AA conferences maintain a 63 scollie minimum in order to be eligible for a conference auto bid. The Patriot League objected to this on 2 grounds.
1. The PL did not call their financial assistance, scholarships. (The PL does not give scholarships. They call it needs based grants. Of course, the PL gives out scholarships in all kinds of sports, just look at Lehigh wrestling.)
2. The PL wanted a lower minimum than 63.

The counter proposal from the OVC crowd was accepted by the overall PL crowd. The language of financial aid was changed from "scholarships" to "equivalencies".

The number of minimum equivalencies for a conference auto bid was reduced to the 50's, again to placate the PL.

In the end the Patriot League bailed on the deal when they found out that Georgetown did not offer equivalencies in the 50 range.

I know of no SWAC, MEAC, or IVY opposition to the OVC proposals. The issue was conference auto bids. SWAC and the Ivies did not participate in the playoffs. The MEAC supported the OVC proposals.

The involvement of the NEC was peripheral at best. The NEC had been making noises for a conference auto bid to the playoffs. They did not have a full complement of scollies. The OVC proposal would have rendered the NEC for an auto bid request null and void at the outset thus protecting the auto bid status of the OVC and MEAC despite the miserable performances of these 2 conferences in the playoffs up to that time.

To sum up:

1. I know of no proposal to link minimum scollies to 1-AA/FCS status.
2. There were proposals to link scollies or equivalencies to conferences for playoff auto bids.
3. The OVC never made a compelling case to the power conferences as to why the proposals were necessary.

[Twentysix]

LFN could be a Sacred Heart or Mercer fan and he would get the same responses. It has some to do with Lehigh, but more to do with his hilarious biases.

[pike51]

Question... can this thread get as epic as the "Who's Laughing" Chattown thread?

[Twentysix]

Question... can this thread get as epic as the "Who's Laughing" Chattown thread?

They should probably just be merged tbh.

Like some kind of epic mashup.

[Dane96]

Dane, Eagle's Cliff is right on his main point but he is not correct on the details.

We discussed these ideas at length on this site and EC is correct that the proposals were advanced about 10 years ago. The proposal to mandate a certain scholarship level in order to have a conference auto bid in the playoffs was spear headed by the OVC. Nowhere was there any discussion that a school give up the I-AA designation if they did not have the requisite number of scollies.

The first proposal was that ALL I-AA conferences maintain a 63 scollie minimum in order to be eligible for a conference auto bid. The Patriot League objected to this on 2 grounds.
1. The PL did not call their financial assistance, scholarships. (The PL does not give scholarships. They call it needs based grants. Of course, the PL gives out scholarships in all kinds of sports, just look at Lehigh wrestling.)
2. The PL wanted a lower minimum than 63.

The counter proposal from the OVC crowd was accepted by the overall PL crowd. The language of financial aid was changed from "scholarships" to "equivalencies".

The number of minimum equivalencies for a conference auto bid was reduced to the 50's, again to placate the PL.

In the end the Patriot League bailed on the deal when they found out that Georgetown did not offer equivalencies in the 50 range.

I know of no SWAC, MEAC, or IVY opposition to the OVC proposals. The issue was conference auto bids. SWAC and the Ivies did not participate in the playoffs. The MEAC supported the OVC proposals.

The involvement of the NEC was peripheral at best. The NEC had been making noises for a conference auto bid to the playoffs. They did not have a full complement of scollies. The OVC proposal would have rendered the NEC for an auto bid request null and void at the outset thus protecting the auto bid status of the OVC and MEAC despite the miserable performances of these 2 conferences in the playoffs up to that time.

To sum up:

1. I know of no proposal to link minimum scollies to 1-AA/FCS status.
2. There were proposals to link scollies or equivalencies to conferences for playoff auto bids.
3. The OVC never made a compelling case to the power conferences as to why the proposals were necessary.

Thank you for clarifying, and I say this with respect: I was calling Cliff out because I know for a fact (for other reason's I choose not to disclose) that the NEC had no say in the matter. So, when he said "NEC"...I jumped.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think very few of the posts are deriding Lehigh as much as trying to refute LFN's "no respect" claims.

Your posts? Absolutely.

[Lehigh'98]

We are 5 weeks in, thus far UNH has no good wins and a close loss to a horrible FBS team. I have no problem with them not being ranked because there are other teams that have proven much more this year. Much the same way I feel about UCA at the moment. Luckily for both of these teams, they will get a chance at redemption in conference play. Most of the questions about LU will answered this week at Fordham. If they can win there, they should move up significantly, if not, win the league. No idea why people get worked up about rankings this early in the season.

[MSUBobcat]

Your posts? Absolutely.

Show me.... And I hope they are better than me talking down UNH with statements like "UNH is not a top 25 team right now". You have an FCS site?!? Seriously?!?! FML.
Saying UNH is overrated ISN'T a slam against LU. Get over yourself. Try being an OBJECTIVE journalist.

[MSUBobcat]

We are 5 weeks in, thus far UNH has no good wins and a close loss to a horrible FBS team. I have no problem with them not being ranked because there are other teams that have proven much more this year. Much the same way I feel about UCA at the moment. Luckily for both of these teams, they will get a chance at redemption in conference play. Most of the questions about LU will answered this week at Fordham. If they can win there, they should move up significantly, if not, win the league. No idea why people get worked up about rankings this early in the season.

I agree with this guy, and lo and behold he's a Lehigh fan. Unfortunately, I've agreed with him earlier so I got this, "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Lehigh'98 again." See LFN, it's not Lehigh I have a problem with. Mostly it's just your ridiculous comments.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Show me.... And I hope they are better than me talking down UNH with statements like "UNH is not a top 25 team right now". You have an FCS site?!? Seriously?!?! FML.
Saying UNH is overrated ISN'T a slam against LU. Get over yourself. Try being an OBJECTIVE journalist.

You keep forgetting the link:

http://www.college-sports-journal.com

[MSUBobcat]

You keep forgetting the link:


Not forgetting. TRYING TO FORGET. That rag does have 63 whole FB friends so OBVIOUSLY it a superb read... xrolleyesx

Tell you what, make objective observations and don't put words in people's mouth for 2 weeks and I'll put your "site" on my FB page. May get a few more friends...

Edit: Had to delete that link. Don't want to be associated with anything LFN.