ARE THEY GOING TO BREAK MY HEART, AGAIN?

[ngineer]

I've been a Phillies fan since I was about 5 (1957), hence, the red pin-stripers have broken my heart many times over, but I still keep coming back. (yes, I know the Cubbies have been more futile, but there has generally been a loveable expectedness about that).
Now, the 'Philthies' are surging like never seen before. Tonight they won their 11th out of last 12 games. A best home stand record in 50 years. I was really ticked at the ticket price increase this year, after last year's stumble, yet, here I am, again, the eternal optimist. Anyone else out there with a similar strange addiction? Some have told me I have something akin to 'battered wife syndrome' where the victim still keeps going back to the SOB. Do I need help???

[Grizo406]

one word... Cubs.

You got the 1st letter right, ralph. ;)

[eaglefan452]

The Braves will win the division again, and yet again, will bow out in the playoffs, put money on it.

[blukeys]

I've been a Phillies fan since I was about 5 (1957), hence, the red pin-stripers have broken my heart many times over, but I still keep coming back. (yes, I know the Cubbies have been more futile, but there has generally been a loveable expectedness about that).
Now, the 'Philthies' are surging like never seen before. Tonight they won their 11th out of last 12 games. A best home stand record in 50 years. I was really ticked at the ticket price increase this year, after last year's stumble, yet, here I am, again, the eternal optimist. Anyone else out there with a similar strange addiction? Some have told me I have something akin to 'battered wife syndrome' where the victim still keeps going back to the SOB. Do I need help???
All you have to do is go into the room and sit in the circle and when it is your time to "share" stand up and say. "My name is ngineer and I am a Philliesholic." The rest pretty much takes care of itself.

[Ivytalk]

ngineer, I share your addiction. I started following the Phillies in -- you guessed it -- 1964. I'm THIS close to printing up some "TRADE WADE" t-shirts, but I'll wait until the streak is over.

[ngineer]

ngineer, I share your addiction. I started following the Phillies in -- you guessed it -- 1964. I'm THIS close to printing up some "TRADE WADE" t-shirts, but I'll wait until the streak is over.

That's a hellava year to 'get started'--I was 12 and will never forget it. I had standing room tickets for the left field bleachers for the Series that never happened...

[ChickenMan]

ARE THEY GOING TO BREAK MY HEART, AGAIN?


Yes...

[faxjusfax]

That's a hellava year to 'get started'--I was 12 and will never forget it. I had standing room tickets for the left field bleachers for the Series that never happened...

Being an NL fan, I remember it well, too. One of my favorite players back then was Dick Allen. Saw him get jammed with an inside pitch once, and he powered it for a HR to Right-Center. Amazing!

btw, wasnt the name of the ballpark back teehn Connie Mack Stadium?

[Ivytalk]

Yes it was: Connie Mack Stadium, formerly Shibe Park, on Lehigh Avenue in North Philly. What a pit! I still remember the high tin wall in right field, and seeing Johnny Callison win a game with an inside-the-park homer off the top of that wall. I also remember seeing Richie "call me Dick" Allen clear the left field roof a couple of times.

[NDSU_grad]

I am perhaps the only diehard Phillies fan in the entire state of North Dakota. I was 6 when they won the series in 80. I figured they must be the best team in baseball history, thus setting me up for the last 25 years. The frustrating thing about the Phillies is that at least in my lifetime, they've rarely been absolutely terrible. They usually manage to tease me unitl about the middle to end of August, go into a fade and bow out.
This year they started out slow and I was actually somewhat pleased that they would simply be terrible and I wouldn't have to get my expectations up. Now they've won 6 in a row and I think 14 out of 16 and I find myself anxiously watching the ticker on ESPN. I'm just wondering how late into the season they'll keep it up this time.

[blukeys]

ngineer, I share your addiction. I started following the Phillies in -- you guessed it -- 1964. I'm THIS close to printing up some "TRADE WADE" t-shirts, but I'll wait until the streak is over.
as a Little League pitcher back then, My hero was Jim Bunning. I tried to see him on TV every time he pitched. Yes I did watch the perfect game from start to finish. Later I met Chris Short. He sold insurance after he retired. I loved watching Johnny Callison play right field. He had a cannon for an arm. Dick Allen was the first great critic of astro Turf. He stated "If a horse won't eat it I ain't playing on it."

[ngineer]

Yes it was: Connie Mack Stadium, formerly Shibe Park, on Lehigh Avenue in North Philly. What a pit! I still remember the high tin wall in right field, and seeing Johnny Callison win a game with an inside-the-park homer off the top of that wall. I also remember seeing Richie "call me Dick" Allen clear the left field roof a couple of times.

Yes, I saw the 'Wampum Walloper" clear one of the billboards on top of the left field roof! The old Philadelphia Evening Bulletin used to run aerial photos of Connie Mack and chart the trajectory of Allen's blasts. Several had to have been over 600 feet. He once cleared the edge of the roof that extended from the left field stand to behind the centerfield wall where they kept the batting cage. From home to dead center was 447, plus approx 30' for the storage area, and the roof had to have been 30-40' above the ground. The blast was a line shot that seemed to keep rising as it left the park. Ball was never reported found (of course, in that neighborhood people didn't go around at night searching the gutters for baseballs).

[Ivytalk]

You're right, ngineer, that was one tough neighborhood. When local kids told my Dad and me that they'd "watch our car" for a quarter, we usually paid them off!

[Marcus Garvey]

You're right, ngineer, that was one tough neighborhood. When local kids told my Dad and me that they'd "watch our car" for a quarter, we usually paid them off!

I'm too young to have ever gone to Connie Mack. However, my dad and other people told me about the neighborhood. It was pretty common for folks from Bethlehem to take a train from Union Station to North Broad Station at Lehigh and Broad St. On the 7 block walk, I've been told that there were always 2 cops at each intersection.

[polsongrizz]

You got the 1st letter right, ralph. ;)
Aw, clever gman... ;)

[blukeys]

I am perhaps the only diehard Phillies fan in the entire state of North Dakota. I was 6 when they won the series in 80. I figured they must be the best team in baseball history, thus setting me up for the last 25 years. The frustrating thing about the Phillies is that at least in my lifetime, they've rarely been absolutely terrible.
Ahh you are much too young grasshopper. The 1961 Phillies still hold the record for the longest losing streak (23 games or one whole month of losing). The record is barely noticed because the very next year the New York Mets came into existence and began the Marvelous Marv Throneberry era of ineptitude. I still say that the 61 Phillies could lose to the 62 Mets in any worst of competition but alas it never did happen. The 61 Phillies had some decent players, pitcher Art Mahaffery and 2nd basemen Tony Taylor. Unfortunately this could not compensate for the likes of crowd favorite and strike out king Pancho Herrera. (yes that was his real name) and many other forgettable ball players.

[Grizo406]

Aw, clever gman... ;)

It hasn't happened too many times, but I've been told that I'm smarter than I look.

A lot more to Grizo than just a pretty face. ;)

[polsongrizz]

It hasn't happened too many times, but I've been told that I'm smarter than I look.

A lot more to Grizo than just a pretty face. ;)
don't know who told you that but it must have been buck...and i would consider the source... :eek: ;)

[buckp]

don't know who told you that but it must have been buck...and i would consider the source... :eek: ;)

Hey...hey...hey! If I said it, I must have been drinking! :D

http://www.whitetails.com/deer252.jpg
So.....................there!

[NDSU_grad]

Ahh you are much too young grasshopper. The 1961 Phillies still hold the record for the longest losing streak (23 games or one whole month of losing). The record is barely noticed because the very next year the New York Mets came into existence and began the Marvelous Marv Throneberry era of ineptitude. I still say that the 61 Phillies could lose to the 62 Mets in any worst of competition but alas it never did happen. The 61 Phillies had some decent players, pitcher Art Mahaffery and 2nd basemen Tony Taylor. Unfortunately this could not compensate for the likes of crowd favorite and strike out king Pancho Herrera. (yes that was his real name) and many other forgettable ball players.
Oh, I know. I really don't know if I could have lived through 1964. Eight game lead with 12 to play? Brutal.

[faxjusfax]

I'm too young to have ever gone to Connie Mack. However, my dad and other people told me about the neighborhood. It was pretty common for folks from Bethlehem to take a train from Union Station to North Broad Station at Lehigh and Broad St. On the 7 block walk, I've been told that there were always 2 cops at each intersection.

Isn't that the neighborhood that (maybe future I-AA football school) Temple is found?

[Marcus Garvey]

Isn't that the neighborhood that (maybe future I-AA football school) Temple is found?

Temple's main campus is several blocks south of Broad and Lehigh. The areas around North Philly Station and North Broad Station are even scarier than those near Temple. North Philly Station used to be the main staion for passenger trains west. 50 years ago, if you were taking a train to Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, St. Louis or Chicago, they didn't stop at 30th Street, because they'd only have to back up. North Philly was a major stop. However, the neighborhood is so scary that it slowly was reduced in scale to the point where Amtrak uses it, but it's not staffed. All west bound trains (i.e., not headed for Washington) stop at 30th St. Station and back up to Zoo Jct. to head west.

[faxjusfax]

OK, there seems to be a lot of Philly fans out there. Here is a review of a new book from a LaSalle alum about the plight of the 1964 Phillies and their fans:

New Book by La Salle University History Professor John P. Rossi Revisits Heartbreak of Phillies' Shocking Collapse in 1964 Season.

In the summer of 1964, the planets seemed to be aligning in John Rossi's favor. He was close to completing his doctoral degree in history from the University of Pennsylvania. In August, a young woman caught his eye at a wedding, and they began dating. And the Phillies, his hometown team, were in the midst of a fairy tale run that even the most jaded Philadelphia sports fan believed would end in a National League pennant-if not a World Series title.

"By August, people were saying, 'This team is going to win.' I got caught up in it," said Rossi, a history professor at La Salle University. "We thought this team couldn't do anything wrong."

With 12 games left in the season and the Phillies leading the league by 6½ games, the pennant appeared to be in the bag. World Series tickets were printed and in the mail. But the Phillies imploded, losing 10 straight games and the pennant and dashing the city's hopes.

"This is the most traumatic event in Philadelphia sports history," Rossi said. After the excitement of the ill-fated season, the city's sports fans reverted to pessimistic attitudes toward their hometown teams. "It reaffirmed the negativism the city has about its sports-expect the worst, because it's coming," Rossi said. "Philadelphia fans almost always expect disaster."

For a while, Rossi couldn't concentrate on his studies, and he had to set aside work on his dissertation. But he went on to earn his Ph.D. and marry the woman he met at the wedding.

The collapse of such a promising team has lingered in the memories of Philadelphia's ardent yet beleaguered sports fans. But 40 years later, Rossi said he thinks those who remember that dismal season are ready to reflect on why it ended the way that it did. Rossi has recently published a book on the subject, "The 1964 Phillies: The Story of Baseball's Most Memorable Collapse."

"It was something that I had to get off my chest, because it was such a devastating period for Philadelphia's fans," Rossi said.

The book traces the slow rise of that team, from the hiring of manager Gene Mauch in 1960, to the 23-game losing streak the team endured in 1961, to the acquisition of bright new prospects who blossomed in the summer of 1964, when the Phillies held onto first place in the National League for 73 days straight.

That season was marked by dramatic moments. Richie Allen, the Phillies' first great African American player to come up through the farm system, would be named Rookie of the Year. Jim Bunning pitched a perfect game on Father's Day, and Johnny Callison hit the winning home run in the ninth inning at the All-Star game. Rookies were coming through in the clutch to win games. Fans were riveted.

"The city falls in love with certain teams, and this was one of them. They were a feisty team led by a feisty manager, and they did everything right," Rossi said.

The final stretch started with seven games in Philadelphia. In front of hometown crowds, the Phillies lost every game. They then went on to lose three more on the road, allowing the St. Louis Cardinals to leap ahead and clinch the pennant.

Afterwards, fans and the media looked for someone to blame. Many turned to Mauch, claiming that the pitching staff had been overused and second-guessing other decisions. Mauch declined requests for an interview for the book, but Rossi contends that the manager deserves much of the credit for building a team that was so successful for much of the season.

The 1965 Phillies weren't able to recapture the magic of the 1964 team, Rossi said.

"You didn't have to be a real fan to tell that something wasn't clicking in 1965 like it had in '64. The team just wasn't the same," he said. "The general feeling was that 1964 was an opportunity and the Phillies had missed it."

It didn't help that the collapse of the 1964 Phillies coincided with a difficult period for Philadelphia as a whole. Racial tensions exploded into riots during the summer of 1964, and the city saw its population fall by more than 70,000 between 1960 and 1970.

Some of the players from the 1964 season went on to have successful careers, and many were willing to speak candidly with Rossi for his book. But for Mauch and many players and fans, the last days of the '64 season are still a vivid-and painful-memory.

"For most, it was a special season, and they have great memories of that year, but they're just saddened by what happened in the end," Rossi said.

"The 1964 Phillies: The Story of Baseball's Most Memorable Collapse" is Rossi's fourth book, and the third he's written on baseball. He previously published "A Whole New Game: Off the Field Changes in Baseball, 1946-1960" and "The National Game: Baseball and American Culture." The latter is the subject of a course he has taught at La Salle University on the relationship between baseball and American history.

by Marian Morton

[Ivytalk]

There they go again! In the past two nights, the Phils have made Seattle's Gil Meche and Aaron Sele look like Cy Young winners. Is it jet lag, or plain old Phillie inconsistency?

[Marcus Garvey]

Is it jet lag, or plain old Phillie inconsistency?

Yes.
:)

[Ivytalk]

The Phils have lost three straight series and are on their way to losing a fourth. One and maybe two starting pitchers down; Lofton hurt again (?); Burrell and Abreu inconsistent at the plate and currently slumping; and Ugueth Urbina has been terrible. And why does that idiot Manuel wear his jacket in 90 degree heat?

[blukeys]

The Phils have lost three straight series and are on their way to losing a fourth. One and maybe two starting pitchers down; Lofton hurt again (?); Burrell and Abreu inconsistent at the plate and currently slumping; and Ugueth Urbina has been terrible. And why does that idiot Manuel wear his jacket in 90 degree heat?

Get out your 1964 World Series tickets! ;) ;)

[ngineer]

Yeah, they're back to their inconsistent ways. Padilla has a major problem, Wolfie is done, and Lieber is now getting consistently lit-up. Wade was everyone's toast on the Urbina trade...and toast he may be, as in burnt. The only saving grace is that it appears all the teams in this division are going to be going through these peaks and valleys. Washington's day will still come. Still early, but, things aint boding well.. :(

[Ivytalk]

I was present for the Phils' latest destructo, a 12-8 loss to the Bosox. Brett Myers was terrible, and Rheal Cormier should be deported immediately.

Manuel got himself tossed after a short, relatively meek protest of Gary Darling's thong-sized strike zone. I think the old phart just wanted an excuse for an early shower on a hot and muggy day.

On the brighter side, Abreu and Burrell each had a good game.

Having mulled it over, I think Boston fans are the most obnoxious in the American League. Bunch of bandwagon-jumping yuppies, for the most part. At least New York Yankee fans act like they've "been there before."