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View Full Version : Let's get this over with...the PL...not so much...



Pard94
September 24th, 2006, 10:29 AM
The Big Three in the PL (Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate) all look very beatable in the early going. What a hugely disapponting day yesterday.

As for Lafayette, if anyone wants to know how to beat them here is the complete game plan...pass the ball. Our d-backs are non-existant. I mean we might as well play with 8 people on D for the job our DB's did yesterday againts a very pedestrian Princeton team. Lehigh alomst gets a pass because I did not expect too much out of them as they get used to a new system (and they are meeting my expectations). Colgate appears to have reloaded with a few blanks thrown in.

Looks like we're al playing for a cheesey 6-5 type PL Championship. UGHHHHH!:mad:

Tribe4SF
September 24th, 2006, 10:56 AM
The early warning signs were up two weeks ago, and none of the Patriot teams appear able to pull those signs down. Colgate's loss to Monmouth leaves no PL team deserving of top 25. NEC and Ivy both look like stronger conferences this year. Deterioration among the top 3, and no progress from the rest. If this trend were to continue over the next couple of years (a real possibility with NEC adding scholarships), the PL will be in danger of losing its auto bid.

Pard94
September 24th, 2006, 11:02 AM
The early warning signs were up two weeks ago, and none of the Patriot teams appear able to pull those signs down. Colgate's loss to Monmouth leaves no PL team deserving of top 25. NEC and Ivy both look like stronger conferences this year. Deterioration among the top 3, and no progress from the rest. If this trend were to continue over the next couple of years (a real possibility with NEC adding scholarships), the PL will be in danger of losing its auto bid.

What kills me is I can't argue with you. I am still optimistic that this year isn't necessarily indicative of years to come. And I think we will be a full scholarship league inside of three years anyway. Look for Colgate and Lafayette to lead that charge. the right people are finally in place.

carney2
September 24th, 2006, 11:03 AM
Very disappointing on all fronts. Leagues, like individual programs, have their cycles, but this was not supposed to be a "down" year in Patsyville.

Mr. Tribe mentions losing the autobid. Can this happen?

Tribe4SF
September 24th, 2006, 11:09 AM
Going scholarship now appears crucial. PL teams already face a limited talent pool because of academics. Lack of scholarships just compounds the situation.

Tribe4SF
September 24th, 2006, 11:12 AM
Very disappointing on all fronts. Leagues, like individual programs, have their cycles, but this was not supposed to be a "down" year in Patsyville.

Mr. Tribe mentions losing the autobid. Can this happen?

It certainly can, but it would take a clear trend over a few years. If the Great West and NEC continue to get better, the NCAA will have to look at who gets auto bids. They could expand the number, or redistribute them. Great West, of course, would have to add teams.

rokamortis
September 24th, 2006, 11:29 AM
It certainly can, but it would take a clear trend over a few years. If the Great West and NEC continue to get better, the NCAA will have to look at who gets auto bids. They could expand the number, or redistribute them. Great West, of course, would have to add teams.

Are the autos for a year determined before the season, or is it determined close to the end of the regular season? I say, if the NEC demonstrates it is stronger than the PL or any other league in a given season then they should get the auto.

cosmo here
September 24th, 2006, 11:37 AM
Are the autos for a year determined before the season, or is it determined close to the end of the regular season? I say, if the NEC demonstrates it is stronger than the PL or any other league in a given season then they should get the auto.

they're determined well before the season starts. otherwise, it would really be an "at-large" auto bid.

Pard4Life
September 24th, 2006, 11:39 AM
The last time I checked, Lafayette still has seven games left to play.. Colgate has eight... anything can happen... and by anything, that includes the worst possible scenario.. bottoming out and having Holy Cross win the league.. : smh : . It really does not look good for the PL right now. That Princeton loss was inexcusable and our offense really needs their head examined... same thing with Colgate... Monmouth!? Oh boy...

Like I said, we still have a season to play and a couple of big plays and hits can put this train back on its tracks. Even if the PL teams redeem themselves the rest of the way, we still have alot of questions to answer.

And no, an auto-bid can't be awarded/subtracted in the middle of the season. That's an off-season issue. Clearly, the NEC is making an extremely strong case for an auto-bid.

carney2
September 24th, 2006, 12:31 PM
Going scholarship now appears crucial. PL teams already face a limited talent pool because of academics. Lack of scholarships just compounds the situation.

Actually, as Colgate13 has pointed out in other posts at other times, the talent pool would only increase by 1/3 or less because, in many (most) cases, the current equivalencies are defacto scholarships. The academic index problems would still be there and, apparently, the PL would continue to have trouble in the recruiting battle with the Ivy League who has the highest name recognition in I-AA and a national presence in recruiting. The Patsys on the other hand conjure up the following visions in high school heads: Colgate ("Toothpaste, right?"), Lafayette ("I think he had something to do with the Revolution."), Lehigh ("A river? A mountain? I dunno."), Georgetown ("Oh yeah, Patrick Ewing."), etc. No high school bubble head has any problem placing Harvard, Yale or Princeton in the correct context. Scholarships might move this train forward a little, but there has to be some question as to whether they would bring it into the station.

Tribe4SF
September 24th, 2006, 12:45 PM
With the cost factors involved, a prospect can face significant cost, even with considerable aid. If the possibilities increase by even 20%, that's significant. A family can be looking at $10,000/year as opposed to a full ride at schools like Villanova, Richmond or W&M. Albany and Stony Brook are certainly not the academic equivalent of the PL schools, but they're fine institutions that offer an excellent education. The advent of scholarships in the NEC will certainly get the attention of the Northeast recruiting pool.

TheValleyRaider
September 24th, 2006, 02:38 PM
Our autobid certainly isn't going anywhere this season. Yes, the League has disappointed in OOC play this year. Of this, there can be no argument. However, the PL has shown resiliency in the past, and no doubt will continue to do so. Tavani and Biddle have proven themselves to be good coaches (and Coen may soon do the same at Lehigh), teams will rebuild, and the PL will score OOC victories in future years. The NEC, A-10, and Ivy (who make up just about all of our non-PL opponents) all have quality teams. If this sort of performance continues, combined with the NEC's improvement, the autobid will certainly be in jeopardy. But let's not jump to any more conclusions about the League's future at this point. There is still way too much football left to be played. :twocents:

It should also be noted that neither the OVC nor the MEAC has won a playoff game since before 2003 (the last PL playoff victory).

Go...gate
September 24th, 2006, 03:01 PM
The early warning signs were up two weeks ago, and none of the Patriot teams appear able to pull those signs down. Colgate's loss to Monmouth leaves no PL team deserving of top 25. NEC and Ivy both look like stronger conferences this year. Deterioration among the top 3, and no progress from the rest. If this trend were to continue over the next couple of years (a real possibility with NEC adding scholarships), the PL will be in danger of losing its auto bid.

Your point is well taken, but I think this may be a blessing in disguise, because the PL is rapidly approaching a crossroads as a conference. As Colgate 13 pointed out many times, a consensus must be reached on the need vs. merit-based aid question for football. Though I prefer the Ivy model in all sports, that is no longer the consensus in the Patriot. However, the PL's health and long-term growth prospects mandate that a solution be found at least moderately agreeable to all participants. :twocents:

UAalum72
September 24th, 2006, 03:03 PM
I figure the NEC will have to play like this three years in a row before committee members decide it isn't a fluke. By then the Big Sky/OVC proposal to a 50-equivalency/team average for a league to get an autobid will have been passed, so it'll be too late anyway.

griz37
September 24th, 2006, 03:59 PM
I don't like to see any Auto-bid league struggling. But as an outsider to the Patriot league it is pretty interesting & intriguing, that as conference play starts, we don't really have any idea which team will win the crown. Seems like right now every teams has a realistic shot which I think is exciting.

colgate13
September 24th, 2006, 08:56 PM
As for losing autobids, the OVC and MEAC need to worry about it before the PL IMO... more importantly though, no one is losing anything. The playoffs will expand before a bid gets yanked.

The PL is having a down year. Plain and simple. It happens to many. But the future is still bright. There are lots of youngsters playing right now. I fully expect a turn around for these teams as they get experience.

As for scholarships, I can only hope those at some schools see the writing on the wall as soon as possible. There is no need to bang our heads on the wall like this. Nonscholarship was an uphill battle in hoops. Why do some think football is any different?

*****
September 24th, 2006, 09:24 PM
1. The NEC has schollies this year and were need-based like the Ivy and PL before that, but limited.
2. AQ is awarded before the season and to take one away requires a one year notice.

HensRock
September 24th, 2006, 09:31 PM
I for one am not surprised.
I thought going into the season that this would be a down year for the PL in general. I did not rank any PL teams in my preseason Top 25, nor have I added any since.

Franks Tanks
September 24th, 2006, 09:47 PM
I for one am not surprised.
I thought going into the season that this would be a down year for the PL in general. I did not rank any PL teams in my preseason Top 25, nor have I added any since.

Congratulations you are so Smart, did you also predict that you would lose to Albany?

DFW HOYA
September 24th, 2006, 09:53 PM
Your point is well taken, but I think this may be a blessing in disguise, because the PL is rapidly approaching a crossroads as a conference. As Colgate 13 pointed out many times, a consensus must be reached on the need vs. merit-based aid question for football.

Among fans, maybe, but I question how many college presidents are going to move on this, and when. Those all-sports PL members that actually do support it have few options if the league as a whole opts to keep the status quo.

Someone can correct me, but I read that associate members Fordham and Georgetown have no vote on the matter anyway.

ngineer
September 24th, 2006, 10:07 PM
So after all the hem 'n hawing and "stellar" play by our respective champions I've seen nothing that shows any 'separation' among the 'big 3'. And, indeed, Holy Cross and Fordham have shown a few erratic signs of life as well. I'm afraid Gtown and Bucknell will struggle all year. We've had so much 'toe stubbing' going on the first four weeks, everyone should be limping. The only significant win of the bunch has been Lehigh's win over A-10 Villanova, who beat Penn this week and Fordham, who knocked off Albany, which I'm still scratching my head about.:confused:

blukeys
September 24th, 2006, 10:14 PM
Congratulations you are so Smart, did you also predict that you would lose to Albany?


Quite a few of us were wary of Albany although many other Hen Fans saw this game gimme.

There were many UD posters who were concerned about the Albany game and posted as such on gohens.net. Why don't you actually do some research before you insult someone on this board. xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx

blukeys
September 24th, 2006, 10:15 PM
The only significant win of the bunch has been Lehigh's win over A-10 Villanova, who beat Penn this week and Fordham, who knocked off Albany, which I'm still scratching my head about.:confused:


Any Given Saturday ngineer. Get used to it. How did the Fightin's look tonite????

HensRock
September 25th, 2006, 11:13 AM
Congratulations you are so Smart, did you also predict that you would lose to Albany?


No, I didn't. But I was very wary of that game. I saw it much like our game at Towson last season which I did predict we would lose when no one thought that was possible either. But this thread has nothing to do with either of those games.

We had some discussions over the PL in the preseason poll threads back in July/August where I took some heat for not including any PL teams in my ballot. I don't remember you being there then. So you'll have to excuse me for feeling a little vindicated. I did my homework and figured (and it looks like correctly) that the PL would suck this year.

BTW, I also predicted that Georgia Southern would do well to finish .500 this year so I didn't include them in my preseason poll or any of my subsequent ballots either. I gave my reasons in the preseason despite many people voting them in and arguing with me for leaving them out. Their record so far: 1-2.

Anyway, thanks for the kind congratulations.

If you want any other tips, send me a PM.

Pard4Life
September 25th, 2006, 11:55 AM
No, I didn't. But I was very wary of that game. I saw it much like our game at Towson last season which I did predict we would lose when no one thought that was possible either. But this thread has nothing to do with either of those games.

We had some discussions over the PL in the preseason poll threads back in July/August where I took some heat for not including any PL teams in my ballot. I don't remember you being there then. So you'll have to excuse me for feeling a little vindicated. I did my homework and figured (and it looks like correctly) that the PL would suck this year.

BTW, I also predicted that Georgia Southern would do well to finish .500 this year so I didn't include them in my preseason poll or any of my subsequent ballots either. I gave my reasons in the preseason despite many people voting them in and arguing with me for leaving them out. Their record so far: 1-2.

Anyway, thanks for the kind congratulations.

If you want any other tips, send me a PM.

I don't agree with you on the PL sucking this year based on preseason research. What were your findings? There was little indication of such an occurance. It hope it is pretty compelling evidence given that it is after the fact now...

Alot of people were saying Georgia Southern would not be good this year... that was a no brainer.. you don't need homework for that.. new coach, new system, player tragedy, tough schedule = tough year. Now did you rank Delaware? I did my homework and sure as heck didn't... and I don't have them ranked right now...

HensRock
September 25th, 2006, 01:16 PM
I don't recall my specific findings, but generally I rmember thinking that Lehigh, Lafayette, and Colgate were each losing some significant talent to graduation and some coaching changes. And also the other teams were not quite ready to step up. Everything just seemed out-of-phase for the PL. I knew Maurer would be back for Lafayette and they were a relatively young team. I liked them best, but there were some losses either at WR or RB (can't remember which) that I thought would hurt them.

Lehigh: New QB, new coach
'Gate: New QB? and some significant asst. I forget.

Anyway, concerning UD. I saw question marks at QB and DL. I thought: UD could be real good this year, but they could also be pretty bad. Hard to judge your own team objectively I guess. I took a wait and see approach. I'm interested in your homework on UD and what you saw early to prevent you from ranking them. I do not have them ranked, BTW.

P.S. Check your PMs