Is UMass in trouble?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Losing to Maine at home by 10 points cannot possibly help their cause to average 15,000 fannies in the seats this season.

[Twentysix]

If Umass was forced down to the FCS level, would they suck?

I realize they used to be pretty good.

[Pard4Life]

Thinking same thing LFN. It's like a CAA game anyhow.

[RichH2]

But Maine not that good. UMASS in deep dodo

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Maine can be surprisingly tough even when their record sucks. UMass's attendance should improve when they start playing games at McGuirk again, supposedly the renovations will be complete for next season, though I believe their deal for the use of Gillette requires them to still play a number of games there for the next couple years.

[mainejeff]

But Maine not that good. UMASS in deep dodo

Speaking of not that good........you better thank your lucky stars that you beat Central Connecticut yesterday! How many games does Maine have to win in order to be considered better than the teams that have been losing over the past 2 weeks??? You think that we can get more votes than Wagner this week???

[Sitting Bull]

Nice win for Maine and yes, UMass has been in trouble. Their entire plunge into "big time" football has to be one of the most ignorant strategies, in thought and execution, that has yet to be attempted.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Remaining UMass home games:

9/21 Vandy
10/12 Miami (OH)
10/26 WMU
11/2 Northern Illinois
11/16 Akron

Two or three games during a possible Red Sox World Series push. Vandy will likely be 1-2 going into that weekend with their sole win vs. Austin Peay. And then they take on the class of the MAC - trouble is, those fan bases are 16 hours away.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

What happened to Umass? I mean they weren't a world beater when they left the CAA but they weren't Georgia State bad.

This is pathetic. Did they have some attrition due to a coaching change?

[DFW HOYA]

Nice win for Maine and yes, UMass has been in trouble. Their entire plunge into "big time" football has to be one of the most ignorant strategies, in thought and execution, that has yet to be attempted.

It wasn't an ignorant strategy (UConn did it, Buffalo did it) but it was not well managed.

Properly positioned, Umass was angling for a Big East/AAC invite, which could have supported games with temple, UConn, and navy along with the Conference USA folks. When the invite didn't materialize, it left UMass with games of little consequence and no momentum. (Kind of like West Virginia joining the Big 12, but without the cash payout.)

[Tubakat2014]

They REALLY shouldn't have tried to expand McGuirk during the transition process. Sure, it doesn't help the on-field product, but it would get more butts in the seats. And that would take care of a little bit of the perception problem they're facing. And on that matter- does UMass plan on having a majority of their home games at McGuirk ever again? From what I read, they've got quite a few games in Gillette after the stadium is finished.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It wasn't an ignorant strategy (UConn did it, Buffalo did it) but it was not well managed.

Properly positioned, Umass was angling for a Big East/AAC invite, which could have supported games with temple, UConn, and navy along with the Conference USA folks. When the invite didn't materialize, it left UMass with games of little consequence and no momentum. (Kind of like West Virginia joining the Big 12, but without the cash payout.)

I think a ginormous problem was that Temple got invited to the Big East/AAC, really hanging UMass out to dry with no exciting teams at all within driving distance. It's as if Georgetown or Lehigh "moved up" and announced they would be playing in the Missouri Valley.

[Fordham]

What happened to Umass? I mean they weren't a world beater when they left the CAA but they weren't Georgia State bad.

This is pathetic. Did they have some attrition due to a coaching change?

Part of their success was based on being a great transfer destination. Now kids would have to sit out a year in order to transfer there. I understand that there's a lot more at play here but that certainly must be having an impact imo.

[Dane96]

Wow...aside from DFW Hoyas's spot on post there is a ton of misinformation in the thread but the premise is the same: THIS WAS, HAS BEEN and WILL CONTINUE TO BE A DISASTER unless the Commonwealth bucks up with some huge dollars, which I have said from the beginning would NEVER EVER HAPPEN.

The school has/had about $30 million to play with and most of that is being spent on the lockerroom/performance facility and press box renovations. No seats are being added and McGuirk will be at 17,000 seats. The two sided upper deck expansion has NOT been approved by the State.

If memory serves correctly, UMASS will only have the ability to 1 or maybe 2 games a year at McGuirk starting in 2015 and running until 2016 because of its free-use contract with the Kraft family.

This is a nightmare for UMASS.

[UMaineD]

But Maine not that good. UMASS in deep dodo

I beg to differ guess we will see on September 28th wont we?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

They REALLY shouldn't have tried to expand McGuirk during the transition process. Sure, it doesn't help the on-field product, but it would get more butts in the seats. And that would take care of a little bit of the perception problem they're facing. And on that matter- does UMass plan on having a majority of their home games at McGuirk ever again? From what I read, they've got quite a few games in Gillette after the stadium is finished.

The MAC told them that McGuirk wasn't suitable due to the condition of the press box and visiting team locker rooms - they had to renovate as a condition of joining.

[Sitting Bull]

It wasn't an ignorant strategy (UConn did it, Buffalo did it) but it was not well managed.

Properly positioned, Umass was angling for a Big East/AAC invite, which could have supported games with temple, UConn, and navy along with the Conference USA folks. When the invite didn't materialize, it left UMass with games of little consequence and no momentum. (Kind of like West Virginia joining the Big 12, but without the cash payout.)

Sorry, but moving your games 100 miles off campus to a metro area dominated by professional teams is so you can play in the MAC is ignorant - at minimum, ignorant of the risk to the program and the changing environment around college football.

UConn at least spent years developing their fan base in Hartford with basketball before the football move. On Buffalo, nothing else there but I don't know that they have been so successful to use them as a benchmark.

[ccd494]

18223

Picture of the UMaine sections surrounded by all UMass's fans from Saturday.

Edit: Picture is tiny, here is link to the article with the original: http://bangordailynews.com/2013/09/08/sports/umaine-alumni-fans-celebrate-football-friendships-at-gillette-stadium/?ref=SportsBox

[Twentysix]

http://bdnpull.bangorpublishing.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/10023141_H11191325-600x450.jpg

[MplsBison]

Sorry, but moving your games 100 miles off campus to a metro area dominated by professional teams is so you can play in the MAC is ignorant - at minimum, ignorant of the risk to the program and the changing environment around college football.

UConn at least spent years developing their fan base in Hartford with basketball before the football move. On Buffalo, nothing else there but I don't know that they have been so successful to use them as a benchmark.

What if their reason for wanting to move was that they wanted to offer 85 football scholarships instead of only 63?

Is that a good enough reason to move up, in your opinion?

[MplsBison]

Is UMass in trouble?

I guess I would have to understand why there is an assumed implication of trouble to formulate a cogent response.

If the idea is that failing to average 15,000 attendance this season will result in the program being forced to leave the FBS subdivision, then I can tell you with ease that such a concept is bunk. There never has been and never will be such a case.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Is UMass in trouble?

I guess I would have to understand why there is an assumed implication of trouble to formulate a cogent response.

If the idea is that failing to average 15,000 attendance this season will result in the program being forced to leave the FBS subdivision, then I can tell you with ease that such a concept is bunk. There never has been and never will be such a case.

I don't think they'll be forced out of the FBS, but they do need to address the attendance problem for the program to have any long terms hopes of success. It's hard enough to convince your fans to travel 100 miles away to see a home game, asking them to do it following a 1-11 season and then losing your first two games, one against an opponent from a lower subdivision, is even harder.

[MplsBison]

I don't think they'll be forced out of the FBS, but they do need to address the attendance problem for the program to have any long terms hopes of success. It's hard enough to convince your fans to travel 100 miles away to see a home game, asking them to do it following a 1-11 season and then losing your first two games, one against an opponent from a lower subdivision, is even harder.

On the contrary, attendance follows success - not the other way around. If UMass finds a way to win, people will come. Sustain the winning and the people will sustain their interest. Tough to build that from scratch these days...I agree.

And the other thing to consider is when you said "convince your fans to travel 100 miles away..." - but actually a majority of the fans might live closer to Boston than Amherst, correct?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

On the contrary, attendance follows success - not the other way around. If UMass finds a way to win, people will come. Sustain the winning and the people will sustain their interest. Tough to build that from scratch these days...I agree.

And the other thing to consider is when you said "convince your fans to travel 100 miles away..." - but actually a majority of the fans might live closer to Boston than Amherst, correct?

I agree that attendance will follow success, but a continued lack of attendance will also make the program a major drain on the resources of the university which may discourage further investment sending them further back. They're related, and one way or the other UMass needs to start winning some games.

I believe they have more total alumni in the Boston area, and it's obviously a bigger population hub, but the residents of Boston don't see UMass as the local team the way the residents of Amherst do, and while I believe they do run buses for the students, student and local townie population would certainly improve in Amherst.

Next year McGuirk will supposedly be read, and they'll be splitting their home schedule between Amherst and Foxboro. I'm sure they'll be paying close attention to which location draws the biggest turnouts.

[MplsBison]

Ok, that sounds reasonable.

The Foxboro games should be against bigger programs for which those visiting teams are looking to provide a local game to their Boston and New England alumni. Penn St, Notre Dame, Rutgers??

[ccd494]

Foxborough is also not that easily accessible from Boston, which makes this even crazier. Assuming no traffic (which, c'mon), it's about 45 minutes from Boston to Gillette. Foxborough is pretty much in Rhode Island.

[bkrownd]

Maine has always been a thorn in our side. Feels just like old times. ;)

People should worry less about stadium locations and conference affiliations, and more about whether the athletic department hired a head coach who can build a solid winning program. In the MAC winning should certainly be an attainable goal. The clock is ticking...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The trouble is without a 15,000 attendance average its as if they gave themselves two minutes on the clock to score three touchdowns. It takes time to build a winner.

[ccd494]

The trouble is without a 15,000 attendance average its as if they gave themselves two minutes on the clock to score three touchdowns. It takes time to build a winner.

You worry way too much about that 15,000 number. They will figure something out to get around it. It's a very amorphous requirement, with the way attendance is counted. They could, for example, bus in 45,000 elementary schoolers for the last game and "charge" them all a penny.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You worry way too much about that 15,000 number. They will figure something out to get around it. It's a very amorphous requirement, with the way attendance is counted. They could, for example, bus in 45,000 elementary schoolers for the last game and "charge" them all a penny.

I'm not at all sure about that. It's not as easy to game the system as a transitional program as it used to be.

[Sitting Bull]

You worry way too much about that 15,000 number. They will figure something out to get around it. It's a very amorphous requirement, with the way attendance is counted. They could, for example, bus in 45,000 elementary schoolers for the last game and "charge" them all a penny.

This is less about appearances of a number and more about finances. Charging people a penny won't solve anything. This entire experiment is costing a lot of money.

Plus Kraft is subsidizing a lot of this. He is a businessman. How long is he going to be willing to invest in this?

They better right this ship or there will be calls for a solution, especially if the economy continues to wade in the mud. And I agree, most schools in this situation (Pacific, UC LongBeach, Wichita State) will just drop the program completely rather than move back to a competitive position.

[Sader87]

Foxborough is also not that easily accessible from Boston, which makes this even crazier. Assuming no traffic (which, c'mon), it's about 45 minutes from Boston to Gillette. Foxborough is pretty much in Rhode Island.

Just to set the record straight, there isn't much truth in this post.

Gillette is no more than 30 or so minutes from Boston and a lot of its surrounding areas/towns etc. For the types of crowds the Redmen will have there, traffic on the very major and accessible highways leading into Gillette won't be much of a problem.

The problem is at least two-fold, UMass isn't very good on the field right now and they never really had a very large following to begin with.

[NHwildEcat]

I have said it before and will say it again. They should have scheduled UNH...it would have been their highest attended game of the year. Half of the state of MA attends UNH, so plenty of alumns locally.

They would have still lost but, at least attendance would be up!

[Mr. C]

But Maine not that good. UMASS in deep dodo
Maine is better than you think

[ccd494]

Just to set the record straight, there isn't much truth in this post.

Gillette is no more than 30 or so minutes from Boston and a lot of its surrounding areas/towns etc. For the types of crowds the Redmen will have there, traffic on the very major and accessible highways leading into Gillette won't be much of a problem.

The problem is at least two-fold, UMass isn't very good on the field right now and they never really had a very large following to begin with.

Maybe I just have residual nightmares of trying to get to/from Foxboro for USA-Spain a few years ago. I will honestly never go back there. It took 3.5 hours to go one mile down the road.

[marenlee]

I cheer for teams that try to make the jump to FBS. But what compelled UMASS to think this was the right decision? IMHO I think it is quite conceivable for a good FCS team to be competitive in the MAC but they're getting trounced every single week. I really never see them becoming a conference contender at any point. My knowledge on UMass football is very limited, but if they continue down this path of 1 win seasons, what is more likely? Football gets dropped or they go back to the FCS level? I know the latter is something that never happens...

[Mr. C]

This is less about appearances of a number and more about finances. Charging people a penny won't solve anything. This entire experiment is costing a lot of money.

Plus Kraft is subsidizing a lot of this. He is a businessman. How long is he going to be willing to invest in this?

They better right this ship or there will be calls for a solution, especially if the economy continues to wade in the mud. And I agree, most schools in this situation (Pacific, UC LongBeach, Wichita State) will just drop the program completely rather than move back to a competitive position.
Had to laugh at the UC Long Beach reference, as a graduate of the California education system. Long Beach State is part of the California State system of schools, not the University of California (UC) system. Long Beach State is on par with schools like my alma mater, Fresno State, Cal State Fullerton, San Diego State etc. All of those schools are a notch academically below the UC Berkley's, UC Santa Barbara's etc. University of the Pacific is a private school.

It is a shame that schools like Long Beach State and UOP have not brought back football. They had proud football traditions and I used to love watch them play in the PCAA/Big West Conference.

[Sitting Bull]

Thanks, I really just remembered them as Long Beach State. Meant no smack to the Berkeley crowd though not worried about offending them.

i guess there's no financial justification but it would be nice to see a school like Pacific bring back a team at the FCS level. Not sure which league fits best but the Big Sky could certainly be a consideration.

[MplsBison]

The trouble is without a 15,000 attendance average its as if they gave themselves two minutes on the clock to score three touchdowns. It takes time to build a winner.

Without a shred of evidence, your assertion always was and is bunk.

Carry on.