It's time for the Holy Cross and Colgate to drop D1 football.

[Sader87]

The time for D1 football for both schools is obviously over, once proud programs Holy Cross and Colgate are simply skeletons of what they once were. It's sad, but time for both schools to come to the reality that their institutions simply can't compete at the D1 level any more.

Both have had tremendous football histories but as small institutions, they simply can't compete at this level any more.

It's been fun but it's over.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You've gone off the deep end....

[Sader87]

I wish I had...but it's true...both schools are shells of what they once were football-wise....better to go out with some dignity than to lose to the schools they are now.

[Bill]

Wow...Sader. Put the gun down....step away from the ledge!

Both programs have struggled before - and both have had their day.

to paraphrase Winston Churchill: If you find yourself going through hell, keep going!

[bonarae]

At least the Ivies still have alumni making 53-man rosters (a Columbia alumnus made the Chiefs' 53 man roster this season despite being undrafted)... but Holy Cross and Colgate can't even get any of their graduating/graduated stars into the NFL. xsmhx

[danefan]

Colgate lost to FBS Air Force and Albany by basically one play.

Theyl may run the table in the Patriot and go to the playoffs.

Holy Cross on the other hand......

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Just wait until the scholarship players start making an effect. Look at Fordham this year.

[Sader87]

Nope...from what I've seen/heard from the PL, it's all over....Colgate and Holy Cross were once tremendous football programs but it's basically all over....it's sad but all good things come to an end at some time.

[ngineer]

Everything runs in cycles. One cannot be king of the mountain forever. The question is once dethroned, can the program continue to be competitive while trying to reload. Some programs 'fall off' to .500 type seasons while others go into the valleys of 2-9 type seasons, making the climb back that much more difficult. But it gets done.

[Sader87]

Nah....we're basically done, if we can't beat Bryant or compete with Towson at home, we've basically thrown in the towel.

There will be Holy Cross teams out there in the future but it's really not the team that HC grads pre-Patriot League really care about....harsh, but true.

[TheValleyRaider]

Ummm.....bye?

[Twentysix]

Eh... Colgate made the playoffs last year, and very well could this year...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is some hard-core trolling right now.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Eh... Colgate made the playoffs last year, and very well could this year...

Colgate has two Payton award winners and a title game appearance.

Holy Cross, outside of a 7 year run 25 years ago, has fielded poor teams for the better part of 50 years.

[Sader87]

Eh... Colgate made the playoffs last year, and very well could this year...

And they lost to Wagner who lost to D2 Merrimack this weekend....the football league is a joke and only exists for the Lehigh-Lafayette rivalry.

[Twentysix]

Colgate has two Payton award winners and a title game appearance.

Holy Cross, outside of of a year run 25 years ago, has fielded poor teams for the better part of 50 years.

And Colgate makes some pretty awesome toothpaste.

Holy Cross sounds like a religious cult tbh.

[Pard4Life]

Oookaay... Sader, no drinking and posting!

Eachus made the Chiefs but got hurt.

Gate will be fine they have monsters on their roster and Dick Biddle.

Cross Randolph should have won Peyton three years ago and you had a solid team.

But if you get rid of Colgate football I won't complain. Actually I think it's a great idea!

But the shock of the night... A Columbia football player made an NFL team??? Not as like a statistician or water boy?

[Pard4Life]

Wait what? Wagner lost that game?!?!

[Twentysix]

Wait what? Wagner lost that game?!?!

Yeap, lol.

[RabidRabbit]

Nah....we're basically done, if we can't beat Bryant or compete with Towson at home, we've basically thrown in the towel.

There will be Holy Cross teams out there in the future but it's really not the team that HC grads pre-Patriot League really care about....harsh, but true.

UMMMM, Towson also beat the tar out of UConn. Not bad for a team two, maybe three, years removed from a 2-9 type season. In this outsider's opinion, schollies would be a good thing. After watching the Fordham W over 'Nova today, there is no reason that these two schools can't compete well in the FCS.

[RichH2]

Methinks 87 is trolling for nice words that all will be OK. to cheer himself up. Other than a successful suicide anyhing that was done can be done again. We have 1 schollie class. Lets get 2 more and see where we are. We'll never be equal as a league to CAA or SoCon yr in and out but we will have our moments and IMO do very well nationally.xthumbsupx

[grayghost06]

Colgate has two Payton award winners and a title game appearance.

Holy Cross, outside of a 7 year run 25 years ago, has fielded poor teams for the better part of 50 years.

50 years ago roughly coincides w/ when legendary coach Eddie Anderson retired from coaching at Holy Cross.

[RowdyRabbit]

Holy Cross and Colgate not so much...Valparaiso though....why bother? End it already.

[Sader87]

I appreciate the kind words...but we've had our run, there really is no place for a "real" school with an enrollment under 3,000 in D1 football today.....sad but true.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I appreciate the kind words...but we've had our run, there really is no place for a "real" school with an enrollment under 3,000 in D1 football today.....sad but true.

Wofford does pretty well.

[Sader87]

Wofford does pretty well.

I said "real" school.....

[Tubakat2014]

I said "real" school.....

The fact that some institutions are more academically prestigious than others does not negate the reason for other institutions to exist.

I love Sam Houston, but if my future kid wants to be a neurosurgeon, I'm not sending him or her to this school. Likewise, I will absolutely recommend Sam to my future kid if he or she wants to go into the Texas criminal justice system or become a teacher, etc.

Different places for different reasons.

[citdog]

I said "real" school.....


arrogant yankee prick. they don't hand out degrees from Wofford College.

[Twentysix]

The fact that some institutions are more academically prestigious than others does not negate the reason for other institutions to exist.

I love Sam Houston, but if my future kid wants to be a neurosurgeon, I'm not sending him or her to this school. Likewise, I will absolutely recommend Sam to my future kid if he or she wants to go into the Texas criminal justice system or become a teacher, etc.

Different places for different reasons.

If your kid wanted to be a neurosurgeon you wouldn't send him or her to Holy Cross either. Only if you wanted your kid to be an over qualified tutor ;).

[URMite]

Wofford does pretty well.

Ahem! Small schools that compete... Can you think of anyone in the CAA?

[Bogus Megapardus]

I think you're being a bit shortsighted, Sader.

I mean, why stop with football? HC basketball is hardly a world beater these days, hockey is mediocre at best, lacrosse has never even made the PL tournament let alone the NCAA, and baseball still can't seem to get over the hump. Face it, Sader, Metropolitan College is now the New England darling of the Patriot League. Now all of us can cruise on down the Mass Pike and ignore Worcester along the way - just like everyone else does.

So if you're going to disband football after one game that you didn't expect to win anyhow, why not think long term? You could save a Bunch o' Benjamins by disbanding the athletic department altogether and turning Fitton into a giant puppet theater. I think it's the only smart thing to do. Especially is we can have first dibs on your new lacrosse turf. Ours is pretty ragged.

[mainejeff]

Holy Cross doesn't seem to be good at anything these days.......

[aceinthehole]

Sader, it only gets worse ...
What's the point spread for next week's game vs. New Britain State Normal School? :p

[kdinva]

I said "real" school.....

Wofford's water boys even have to have a 1200+ SAT score.........

[bjtheflamesfan]

Whatever you have been smoking you really need to put it down and run...don't walk...RUN...away from it.

If youre looking for an ego stroking for your passive aggressive trolling, you aren't going to find it from the posters on here. Every team has its ebbs and flows, even the great ones like Holy Cross.

My goodness Im glad you aren't in charge of the athletic department up there Sader...

[UIWWildthing]

Nah....we're basically done, if we can't beat Bryant or compete with Towson at home, we've basically thrown in the towel.

There will be Holy Cross teams out there in the future but it's really not the team that HC grads pre-Patriot League really care about....harsh, but true.

This isn't your traditional Towson team though. Keep in mind this is a top 5 team in FCS this season. Don't give up on your team speaking as a long time Towson fan, things can get better! Look at where we were a few seasons ago and where we are now.

[Ivytalk]

I don't buy the small school line, either. Rice has fewer than 4,000 undergrads but plays FBS football. Usually the Owls aren't very good, but they did win a minor bowl game last year.

Yeah, I know, Rice has lots of oil money and a huge stadium...

Keep your head up, Sader. Harvard survived a few 2-8 seasons not that long ago.

[Franks Tanks]

If your kid wanted to be a neurosurgeon you wouldn't send him or her to Holy Cross either. Only if you wanted your kid to be an over qualified tutor ;).

Holy Cross has an excellent rep when it comes to med schools. A quick search tells me that over 10% of living Holy Cross grads are Doctors or Dentists. Quite impressive.

[clenz]

Isn't this the same ****er who said that Holy Cross's football program is head and shoulders above NDSU even to this day because of wins against Michigan 80ish years ago?


What a ****ing maroon

[Gater]

Colgate lost to Air Force and an Albany team that went 9-2 last year. Colgate had 4 turnovers in the first half and still had had three chances to punch it in from the one with four minutes left in the game to take the lead. Fordham, with two wins over the CAA to start the season, is proof that scholarships will make a difference. Yesterday's loss for Colgate was a rough one but Colgate's football future hasn't been this bright since the mid 80's.

[Engineer86]

Isn't this the same ****er who said that Holy Cross's football program is head and shoulders above NDSU even to this day because of wins against Michigan 80ish years ago?


What a ****ing maroon

I was thinking the same thing. Which way is it?

[Tribal]

Ahem! Small schools that compete... Can you think of anyone in the CAA?

Oooh, oooh...pick me...pick me...I can name a small private AND small public school in the CAA that compete.

[RichH2]

For a real look at apathy for football one merely has to go to the Bison Board. Not one word about their game. For them there are only bball and Lax seasons

[RichH2]

OOps forgot Water polo for Bucknell

[Sader87]

Isn't this the same ****er who said that Holy Cross's football program is head and shoulders above NDSU even to this day because of wins against Michigan 80ish years ago?


What a ****ing maroon

I never said HC was better than NDSU today. Holy Cross was a much better football program than NDSU from 1896-1991...but it has devolved into a pale imitation of what it once was.

[clenz]

I never said HC was better than NDSU today. Holy Cross was a much better football program than NDSU from 1896-1991...but it has devolved into a pale imitation of what it once was.
NDSU won 10 national titles during that time.


Holy Cross, while in the higher division, but during that time Holy Cross had 35 losing seasons.
No championships of any kind until 1986 when they won a Patriot League title.
HC has just 4 10 win seasons all time (1986, 87, 89, 91)
Congrats on beating up on teams like Worcester Tech (MA), Phillips Andover Academy (MA), Tufts (MA), Pittsfield AC (MA), Bates (ME), etc... You haven't beaten a team that is currently FBS since 1991 (UMASS, who was FCS at that point), and haven't beaten a team that was FBS at the time of the game since 1984. Nearly ALL of your "FBS wins were prior to 1960, and the vast majority of any "name wins" in the 30's and 40's. That was well before college football was what it is today. If you want to use an accurate time frame to judge a program historically you'd go back to 1937 at the very earlierst, as that's when the NCAA was actually formed. Honestly, football prior to about 1973 has little impact on the game today in terms of anything important.

[Sader87]

It is what is clenz....HC while not as successful as it was in basketball and baseball was playing at the highest level of college football from the 1930's-1960's, was still technically 1-A for the decade of the 1970's and was very succesful at the 1-AA level during the 1980's. NDSU, while very successful, was not playing at anywhere near the same level of football as HC was until the 1990's.

For the record HC beat FBS Army in 1981, 1986, 1987 and 2002.

[Twentysix]

I keep forgetting that EMU is superior to NDSU because they play at the highest level. Silly me.

[heath]

NDSU won 10 national titles during that time.


Holy Cross, while in the higher division, but during that time Holy Cross had 35 losing seasons.
No championships of any kind until 1986 when they won a Patriot League title.
HC has just 4 10 win seasons all time (1986, 87, 89, 91)
Congrats on beating up on teams like Worcester Tech (MA), Phillips Andover Academy (MA), Tufts (MA), Pittsfield AC (MA), Bates (ME), etc... You haven't beaten a team that is currently FBS since 1991 (UMASS, who was FCS at that point), and haven't beaten a team that was FBS at the time of the game since 1984. Nearly ALL of your "FBS wins were prior to 1960, and the vast majority of any "name wins" in the 30's and 40's. That was well before college football was what it is today. If you want to use an accurate time frame to judge a program historically you'd go back to 1937 at the very earlierst, as that's when the NCAA was actually formed. Honestly, football prior to about 1973 has little impact on the game today in terms of anything important.
Why 1973? just curious, unless you are a Steeler fan,then I completely understand

[DFW HOYA]

You haven't beaten a team that is currently FBS since 1991 (UMASS, who was FCS at that point), and haven't beaten a team that was FBS at the time of the game since 1984. Nearly ALL of your "FBS wins were prior to 1960, and the vast majority of any "name wins" in the 30's and 40's. That was well before college football was what it is today. If you want to use an accurate time frame to judge a program historically you'd go back to 1937 at the very earlierst, as that's when the NCAA was actually formed.

The NCAA was founded in 1906. A national statistics bureau was instituted in 1937, which is when the University and College divisions began to take hold.

[Kramden]

I hope people from William and Mary, Richmond, Wofford, etc don't think all Patriot League Alums have similar opinions as our colleagues from Worcester. This small size school with high Academics not being able to compete comment is bizarre.

[Sader87]

I hope people from William and Mary, Richmond, Wofford, etc don't think all Patriot League Alums have similar opinions as our colleagues from Worcester. This small size school with high Academics not being able to compete comment is bizarre.

You can win at the highest level of FCS (and compete with some FBS teams) with a small enrollment....I really don't think it can be done under the auspices of the Patriot League (AI, no red-shirting etc)...at least at Holy Cross anyway.

[Sitting Bull]

NDSU won 10 national titles during that time.


Holy Cross, while in the higher division, but during that time Holy Cross had 35 losing seasons.
No championships of any kind until 1986 when they won a Patriot League title.
HC has just 4 10 win seasons all time (1986, 87, 89, 91)
Congrats on beating up on teams like Worcester Tech (MA), Phillips Andover Academy (MA), Tufts (MA), Pittsfield AC (MA), Bates (ME), etc... You haven't beaten a team that is currently FBS since 1991 (UMASS, who was FCS at that point), and haven't beaten a team that was FBS at the time of the game since 1984. Nearly ALL of your "FBS wins were prior to 1960, and the vast majority of any "name wins" in the 30's and 40's. That was well before college football was what it is today. If you want to use an accurate time frame to judge a program historically you'd go back to 1937 at the very earlierst, as that's when the NCAA was actually formed. Honestly, football prior to about 1973 has little impact on the game today in terms of anything important.

To compare football tradition over the course of history, NDSU can't hold a candle to Holy Cross. Not even close.

You talk about Tufts. Holy Cross was playing Penn State, Syracuse, BC, Georgia, etc. in their bigger years. They went to the Orange Bowl one year. Who in the hell was NDSU playing in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s?

Im not arguing currently, the last 10 years. That's the only time I can imagine NDSU even giving HC a game, the last 5 years it wouldn't even be close.

Sader, there's another game next week, and another the week after that. No need for suicide.

[Go...gate]

I don't buy the small school line, either. Rice has fewer than 4,000 undergrads but plays FBS football. Usually the Owls aren't very good, but they did win a minor bowl game last year.

Yeah, I know, Rice has lots of oil money and a huge stadium...

Keep your head up, Sader. Harvard survived a few 2-8 seasons not that long ago.


Colgate went from 0-11 in 1995 (and a winless streak against HC from 1983-1996) to the NCAA Championship game in 2003. Every program has its ups and downs.

[Go...gate]

I hope people from William and Mary, Richmond, Wofford, etc don't think all Patriot League Alums have similar opinions as our colleagues from Worcester. This small size school with high Academics not being able to compete comment is bizarre.

Agreed. The solution is not to quit but to find ways to be successful.

And it is NOT time for Colgate to drop Division I football.

[RichH2]

Pity parties are for girls. Enough already.

[Go...gate]

Let's also remember that HC cleaned up with scholarships when its opponents in the Ivy and Patriot had none. If that is what you want to go back to, forget it.

[MplsBison]

You can win at the highest level of FCS (and compete with some FBS teams) with a small enrollment....I really don't think it can be done under the auspices of the Patriot League (AI, no red-shirting etc)...at least at Holy Cross anyway.

What if Holy Cross football moved to the CAA football conference and that conference said "ok Holy Cross, you can recruit and give scholarships to whoever you want so long as your football team meets the minimum NCAA APR requirements and you offer at least 90% of the FCS maximum scholarships."

A/B) Would the administration at HC, the boosters, the fans, the coaches of the other HC programs (still in the Patriot League), etc. demand that HC self-impose an "academic index" upon the football team? / Assuming there was no index enforced on the football team, would the admissions department at HC refuse to take any consideration of football ability in the process of accepting an applicant to the school?

C) Given the answers to A and B above, do you think HC would be a more competitive FCS program and how much more?

[Seawolf97]

Combine both programs call it Holy-Gate and pray for Divine Intervention !

[Doc QB]

This isn't your traditional Towson team though. Keep in mind this is a top 5 team in FCS this season. Don't give up on your team speaking as a long time Towson fan, things can get better! Look at where we were a few seasons ago and where we are now.

Towson has put it together, true, but its Apples and oranges, as HC and Gilmore will never have carte blanche in admissions like Ambrose is given.