WTF App. State?

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

What happened?

[IBleedYellow]

They can't wait for their FBS dreams to come true!

[PaladinFan]

I imagine we won't see many of the Appies around here tonight. Probably some soul searching going on.

Looking like their last season of FCS football is going to be less than pleasant.

[Humble Steward]

What happened?

They got beat by a solid A&T team. That defense is going to be a beast if they continue to play like this all year. All I can say is Rod Broadway.

[IBleedYellow]

I imagine we won't see many of the Appies around here tonight. Probably some soul searching going on.

Looking like their last season of FCS football is going to be less than pleasant.


No No, they'll be here to rebuttal all of us probably. I'd actually prefer them to be here since I'm sure some of them saw the game.

[NDSUstudent]

In related news App State has applied for DII.

[blueballs]

I guess that Moore fellow could coach a little bit after all....

[Big Dawg]

A&T is going to have a solid team this season...Coach Broadway knows what he's doing

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I'm not making excuses here, but I think it is going to be an uphill battle for the Georgia Southern and App. State coaches to motivate their players with no chance at a SoCon championship or postseason. GSU has certainly looked very sloppy in first halves so far and Monken has thrown conniption fits at both games at half time. Maybe Satterfield is a good recruiter and X's and O's guy but just isn't all that fiery?

[PaladinFan]

I'm not making excuses here, but I think it is going to be an uphill battle for the Georgia Southern and App. State coaches to motivate their players with no chance at a SoCon championship or postseason. GSU has certainly looked very sloppy in first halves so far and Monken has thrown conniption fits at both games at half time. Maybe Satterfield is a good recruiter and X's and O's guy but just isn't all that fiery?

Why even take the field then? Ohio State was barred from the title last year, but that didn't mean they didn't bust their butts all season.

It may just be, horror of horrors, that App State just isn't that good.

[BluBengal07]

They got beat by a solid A&T team. That defense is going to be a beast if they continue to play like this all year. All I can say is Rod Broadway.

Rod Broadway's system just needed time to jell. Great showing.

[ElCid]

A&T is going to have a solid team this season...Coach Broadway knows what he's doing

Still early, but A&T was my pick for MEAC champ on clenz. But I am still surprised they beat App.

[HappyAppy]

We are a young team with a young head coach with a gimpy QB missing our best player. We have played two good teams and been beaten thoroughly.

Don't worry naysayers, this team is going to get better. We finally saw some life from the offense when Bryant came in. The defense is going to get better every week as they learn the new schemes. Judging from what I've seen around the SoCon, we still have plenty of winnable games on the schedule.

[Saint3333]

Pretty simple started the wrong QB.

[AppChicago]

I'll bite. I was at the game and we looked terrible. Offense was atrocious. The snaps were all over the place and Jamal played like crap. They put Kam in at the half and things eventually improved, but not quite enough. Really confusing playcalling, especially in the final seconds. And we went for two on the first td! And didn't get it! Satterfield was trying to make a statement... And unfortunately be did. A&T looked great, but we should have won this game. No excuses.

I'm not without hope. I think we can salvage this season and be ready for next year, but tonight we just plain got beat in our own damn house. Hard to take.

[DSUrocks07]

Oh what a world, where we see Chattown running around beating his chest and Apphole taking a sabbatical.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Remember - this is the equivalent of an FBS win for NCAT.

[PaladinFan]

We are a young team with a young head coach with a gimpy QB missing our best player. We have played two good teams and been beaten thoroughly.

Don't worry naysayers, this team is going to get better. We finally saw some life from the offense when Bryant came in. The defense is going to get better every week as they learn the new schemes. Judging from what I've seen around the SoCon, we still have plenty of winnable games on the schedule.

Perhaps there are winnable games in the SoCon, but I would suggest that many of the SoCon teams are looking at ASU as quite winnable as well.

[NDSUstudent]

We are a young team with a young head coach with a gimpy QB missing our best player. We have played two good teams and been beaten thoroughly.

Don't worry naysayers, this team is going to get better. We finally saw some life from the offense when Bryant came in. The defense is going to get better every week as they learn the new schemes. Judging from what I've seen around the SoCon, we still have plenty of winnable games on the schedule.

only up from here being 0-2

[BluBengal07]

Remember - this is the equivalent of an FBS win for NCAT.

i was wondering that. thanks!

[SouthernMan]

Haha. What if Western gets the jug this year. Hilarious.

October is going to be a great month.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

A bad season COULD be a momentum killer for recruiting. App needs to turn it around....

[WataugaDave]

Under Coach Moore:
App State 58, NC A&T 6 (2011)
App State 35, Montana 27 (2012)

Under Satterfield:
App State 6, Montana 30
App State 21, NC A&T 24

And yet the team that just got those two scores is supposed to be getting FBS ready.

Nice run during the fourth quarter, I guess, but I'm pretty sure the team slogan isn't "Attack in the last 5 minutes of the game."

[TheDHC]

There's still time to recover. I remember they had a slow start to the 2009 season, losing the first 2 games (one was FBS), and wrapping up with a respectable 11-3 record at the end.

[Smitty]

I thought Satterfield was the long lost prodigy that was going to bring greatness to App?

[Saint3333]

It is September 7th a lot of time to improve.

[HappyAppy]

I thought Satterfield was the long lost prodigy that was going to bring greatness to App?

I guess we were wrong. His career is clearly over, 2 games is enough to declare the Satterfield era a failure.

If we lose to you guys, then I'll worry. We will get better

[The Cats]

It is September 7th a lot of time to improve.

That sounds strangely familiar to WCU fans.

[theasushow]

Where do I start...Jerry Moore already brought greatness to ASU, even if ASU were to dominate this year it wouldn't have been because of the great Scott Satterfield. As for the game, NC A&T outplayed ASU all the way around, they deserved to win that game, and the score made it look closer than it was, A&T dominated the first 3 and half quarters. Kudos to them. There is nothing worse than losing to a team that you should have beat, but it happens to everybody, even ASU, and it wont be the last time. Upsets happen every day in college football, that is the beauty of the sport. I doubt many people predicted that ASU/Furman/The Citadel would be a combined 0-6 2 games in.

Apparently ASU lacks the swagger this year that it has had in the previous years. David Jackson said after the game that there is no confidence or leadership within the team right now. Is that due to the new coaching staff? lack of motivation due to not being playoff eligible? only time will tell. ASU will right the ship, there is too much pride in the program to just roll over and die. The team is not playing well, the quarterback is clearly not himself, and the fanbase is getting a piece of what the next few seasons may be like. I think they will turn things around in the bye week, if the dont, we could be the next Georgia State. I think the SOCON still has every reason to fear the Neer's.

[gr8ness97]

Great win for NCAT

[The Cats]

Haha. What if Western gets the jug this year. Hilarious.

Not Hilarious, it's would be justice for the long suffering Cats.

[StorminASU]

Pretty simple started the wrong QB.
Nail on the head. Bryant starts, we win easily. We'll be a new team in two weeks time

[ASUG8]

only up from here being 0-2

Brilliant analysis. Thanks.

We have a new coach, new DC, new defense, a gimpy QB, an idiot WR who apparently likes suspension every season, etc. I think it's probably fair at this point to say we're a transition program.

[TheRevSFA]

At this rate, chatty and wcu will beat appy

[ElCid]

At this rate, chatty and wcu will beat appy

I think at this point Chatty and Samford will win easy, WCU is looking good as well. I don't know who to feel more sorry for, App or my El Cid puppies?

Going to be a long season.

[ASUG8]

I think at this point Chatty and Samford will win easy, WCU is looking good as well. I don't know who to feel more sorry for, App or my El Cid puppies?

Going to be a long season.

I'll be in Chucktown for the game....PM me and we'll have group therapy. xlolx

[AppChicago]

I have to say: I am really glad I chose to stick around for the last 10 or so minutes of he game. A lot of people checked out before (when it was 21-6) and that mess was BLEAK. It was still rough going to stay to the end, see a chance for a tie SQUANDERED!and suffer the loss, but I saw more offensive promise in the last 6 min than I did the rest of the game. F we can bottle that, all is not lost. And if you didn't watch the game and think you know what you're talking about, positive or negative... You probably don't.

[WestCoastAggie]

A&T beat a really good team on their home field today. Both teams were missing key offensive pieces but their defenses played well.

Honestly, if App played like they did during the final 6 mins of the game for the rest of the season, they will win most of their remaining 10 games.

[crossfire07]

If a defense is playing well when they give up 378 yards, I'd hate to see what they look like when they suck! lol

[crossfire07]

David Jackson said after the game that there is no confidence or leadership within the team right now. Is that due to the new coaching staff? lack of motivation due to not being playoff eligible?

It has nothing to do with the coaching staff. The staff can not make players step up to be leaders. That comes from the desire within.

[IBleedYellow]

...What happens if Chatt actually beats App this year?

Will all of Boone need to be on suicide watch?

[SpeedkingATL]

Actually the defense didn't give up but 257 yards of offense...but..

App allowed a 91 yard kickoff return for a TD
Had a pass intercepted in the last 30 seconds of the half and it was run back 40+ yards for a TD
Had 5 offensive series start inside the 5 yard line (give A&T's punter a game ball)
Have a senior QB that just hasn't truly returned from his knee surgery.
Have no push up front and thus no running game.

To Apps credit they scored 2 TD's and a 2 point conversion in the last 3:30 of the game and recovered an on side kick in the last minute and drove into long field goal range only to miss the tie on the last play.

Hopefully the last quarter with Cam at QB will give App something to build on. A&T is better than they have been in the recent past. Broadway is a hell of a coach. Congrats to the Aggies.

[DEX]

If a defense is playing well when they give up 378 yards, I'd hate to see what they look like when they suck! lol


I guess you had to be there. I'd say about half those yards came in the last 8:11 of the game when were leading 24-6. At that point we departed from our base defense and went to a very soft cover 2 trying to keep everything in front of us. That almost turned out to be a fatal strategy.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I guess you had to be there. I'd say about half those yards came in the last 8:11 of the game when were leading 24-6. At that point we departed from our base defense and went to a very soft cover 2 trying to keep everything in front of us. That almost turned out to be a fatal strategy.

That can't be right. Playing a soft cover 2 against an FBS team that is going to dominate the Sun Belt for the next decade?

[Hooner49]

RIP ASU football.

[CID1990]

...What happens if Chatt actually beats App this year?

Will all of Boone need to be on suicide watch?

I think App can handle losing to UTC once every other decade.

That said, the season's record is setting up nicely for a UTC meltdown in Boone.

[dgtw]

I guess you had to be there. I'd say about half those yards came in the last 8:11 of the game when were leading 24-6. At that point we departed from our base defense and went to a very soft cover 2 trying to keep everything in front of us. That almost turned out to be a fatal strategy.

The only thing a prevent defense prevents is winning.

[Panther88]

A&T is going to have a solid team this season...Coach Broadway knows what he's doing

That's it in a nutshell. Broadway is the epitomy of what a successful HC should look like (resume' wise). He's a proven winner and I sincerely hope he gets a shot @ the FBS level, if it's his desire.

[AppChicago]

RIP ASU football.
Oh please.

[FCSfan]

Oh what a world, where we see Chattown running around beating his chest and Apphole taking a sabbatical.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[GreatAppSt]

What happened?

Oh no! We suck again.xeekx

[GreatAppSt]

That can't be right. Playing a soft cover 2 against an FBS team that is going to dominate the Sun Belt for the next decade?

Chuck, should a national sports writer such as yourself be making hack dispersions on fan message boards? Is that something professionals do?

[Go Apps]

Pretty simple started the wrong QB.

Was at the game - I left before half as did many others - was tailgating with many right by the stadium - there are a lot of people who have already stopped supporting the school Cobb has put us in a real bind, did not handle the Moore situation and has hired an inept coach - satterfield must go - now!! I was never in support of moving to FBS so I may not renew my season tickets - reason is there will be plenty of seats Last night was a great night game with great weather but the alumni were missing the students pushed the attendance up but if you looked at the Alumi seats it was really sad all around us were nothing but empty seats - ASu is headed in the wrong direction - things are going to get much worse

[ASU_Fanatic]

Offense looked so stale, our QBs were missing open guys. Things got better late and I still think App will wind up with 5-7 wins this year, a completely new system and transition year. We'll see, I'm not worried yet

[Saint3333]

Was at the game - I left before half as did many others - was tailgating with many right by the stadium - there are a lot of people who have already stopped supporting the school Cobb has put us in a real bind, did not handle the Moore situation and has hired an inept coach - satterfield must go - now!! I was never in support of moving to FBS so I may not renew my season tickets - reason is there will be plenty of seats Last night was a great night game with great weather but the alumni were missing the students pushed the attendance up but if you looked at the Alumi seats it was really sad all around us were nothing but empty seats - ASu is headed in the wrong direction - things are going to get much worse

Wow, quite the fan I see. Pro FBS fans weren't pulling their support when we were FCS. We were App fans no matter what.

Your attitude is disappointing. Feel free to jump back on the bus when thing turn around...

[GreatAppSt]

Was at the game - I left before half as did many others - was tailgating with many right by the stadium - there are a lot of people who have already stopped supporting the school Cobb has put us in a real bind, did not handle the Moore situation and has hired an inept coach - satterfield must go - now!! I was never in support of moving to FBS so I may not renew my season tickets - reason is there will be plenty of seats Last night was a great night game with great weather but the alumni were missing the students pushed the attendance up but if you looked at the Alumi seats it was really sad all around us were nothing but empty seats - ASu is headed in the wrong direction - things are going to get much worse

Sounds like you need to take your ball and go to a UNC game I hear they are absolutely busting at the seams with fair weather fans you'll fit right in.xsmiley_wix

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Wow, quite the fan I see. Pro FBS fans weren't pulling their support when we were FCS. We were App fans no matter what.

Your attitude is disappointing. Feel free to jump back on the bus when thing turn around...

I said in the past that when a fan base moves they do lose some of the people that enjoyed this level, the playoffs, etc. and I was pretty summarily dismissed on the matter. Wasn't necessarily you Saint but I was aso told that I wasn't a good fan when I said I would drop my season tickets a couple years back when there was a small talk about the WAC and so forth.

I didn't care if I was a bad fan because I said I wasn't gonna put my money into something I no longer for. I would still go to the tailgates, take a free ticket when one was given etc. but I guarantee I would not be helping those that want FBS pay for it. I've never missed a single game the Griz have played in Wa Griz stadium so I've more than earned my stripes over others and if Montana were to move I'd be feeling a lot like Go Apps is in his post.

Some are gonna be happy and some are not. You lose some and you gain some new ones. It's why I've always sort of scoffed at the projections of the huge attendance gains from some.

All that aside I hope the rest of the season and the coming years fo well for App and they'll likely be on a major upward swing for the rest of the season.xthumbsupx

[AppChicago]

I can't blame anyone for being disappointed, but I have a hard time relating to anyone who leaves before halftime. Weak.

[Apphole]

Was at the game - I left before half as did many others - was tailgating with many right by the stadium - there are a lot of people who have already stopped supporting the school Cobb has put us in a real bind, did not handle the Moore situation and has hired an inept coach - satterfield must go - now!! I was never in support of moving to FBS so I may not renew my season tickets - reason is there will be plenty of seats Last night was a great night game with great weather but the alumni were missing the students pushed the attendance up but if you looked at the Alumi seats it was really sad all around us were nothing but empty seats - ASu is headed in the wrong direction - things are going to get much worse

Don't let the door hit cha' on the way out. xthumbsupx

The future is bright.

[Saint3333]

I remember a similar conversation. My reply remains the same. Some fans put their desires over what is the best move for the school.

App's situation is different than other schools and fans from a state's flagship university may not understand this.

[ASUG8]

I'm gonna go with "transition year" despite returning nearly a full complement on offense. One thing you'll note is that we only had < 27K for a home opener when we're generally in the 30-32K range. bad.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I guess that Moore fellow could coach a little bit after all....

You should watch the game. I remember back in 1993 when App lost to A&T. It's ironic that the QB for App who lost that game was not ready to be the starter and it showed. I am wondering if Satterfield is a solid OC and position coach but not meant to be a head coach? Someone I talked to in the media at the game told me that they saw him on the sidelines multiple times where Scott looked lost and confused. Said he waited about 4 drives too late to pull Jamal Jackson when Jackson clearly needed to be pulled in the first quarter. He waited until the third quarter to put Bryant in and I'm told it was just a little too late. This season is going to be interesting for them. If Scott benches Jackson and goes with Bryant I think App only loses 2 more games this year. If he keeps going with Jackson I think they lose 4-5 more. As long Bryant is the QB App will be a good team this year. They have some talent on defense. With Bryant as QB the only big weak point of that team is the OL just because they are not deep nor very big or tough. Hopefully they get things going. I think Scott can certainly improve as a coach and he can make huge strides in two weeks. The bye week is coming at the perfect time so he, his staff, and players can do soul searching.

[PaladinFan]

I mean, we can at least agree that Satterfield is not some evil genius. He's going to take his lumps like every other college head coach. Great playcaller, maybe, but he's got more on the line now.

[T-Dog]

Was at the game - I left before half as did many others - was tailgating with many right by the stadium - there are a lot of people who have already stopped supporting the school Cobb has put us in a real bind, did not handle the Moore situation and has hired an inept coach - satterfield must go - now!! I was never in support of moving to FBS so I may not renew my season tickets - reason is there will be plenty of seats Last night was a great night game with great weather but the alumni were missing the students pushed the attendance up but if you looked at the Alumi seats it was really sad all around us were nothing but empty seats - ASu is headed in the wrong direction - things are going to get much worse


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVrEwCa8nSA

[FCSfan]

I'm gonna go with "transition year" despite returning nearly a full complement on offense. One thing you'll note is that we only had < 27K for a home opener when we're generally in the 30-32K range. bad.

Still more than anyone else's opener crowd. Hate to see y'all leave the FCS

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I remember a similar conversation. My reply remains the same. Some fans put their desires over what is the best move for the school.

Don't know how that relates if you were talking to me but whatever suits ya. My reply remains the same as well. Some like it, some don't/won't. Fair enough.

[T-Dog]

Jamal Londry-Jackson shouldn't be the starter anymore. He's can't run the offense the way it needs to be run and when he was benched, he sulked and stayed away from others. Senior captain right there. He always had a problem throwing off his back foot and on the run and returning from ACL surgery which has limited his running threat, he's mentally gone. The other offensive captains Washington and Peacock don't seem to be great leaders. When a kicker is named captain, then that shows how young a team is.

The quarterback failures and offensive line's lack of strength has been a bad recipe so far. However, the last four minutes showed that this team has some life with Kam as QB. It'll get better, but Satterfield is taking his lumps.

[Saint3333]

Don't know how that relates if you were talking to me but whatever suits ya. My reply remains the same as well. Some like it, some don't/won't. Fair enough.

It relates to any fan (not you specifically although you seem to fall into the category) IF they put their desires over what is best for the university.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Under Coach Moore:
App State 58, NC A&T 6 (2011)
App State 35, Montana 27 (2012)

Under Satterfield:
App State 6, Montana 30
App State 21, NC A&T 24

And yet the team that just got those two scores is supposed to be getting FBS ready.

Nice run during the fourth quarter, I guess, but I'm pretty sure the team slogan isn't "Attack in the last 5 minutes of the game."

Been waiting for the JM mafia to show up with this stuff. The truth of the matter is Jerry Moore put App in this situation. A lack of emphasis in recruiting quality linemen and hiring coaches not qualified for this level has put the program in very bad shape. We have a QB playing scared and a line that is just awful. Our young D is doing a fine job considering the situation the offense has constantly put them in. I'll be interested to see if Scott has the guts to bench a preseason AA who isn't 100% and playing not to get hurt in favor of a red shirt sophomore who has produced has twice the offense in half the plays of Jackson. Hate to say it but the reality is this is for the most part a throw away year. If the older guys aren't going play with the heart and passion to get the job done it's time to give the young guys who will carry us forward a chance to get some experience.

[FCSfan]

Jamal Londry-Jackson shouldn't be the starter anymore. He's can't run the offense the way it needs to be run and when he was benched, he sulked and stayed away from others. Senior captain right there. He always had a problem throwing off his back foot and on the run and returning from ACL surgery which has limited his running threat, he's mentally gone. The other offensive captains Washington and Peacock don't seem to be great leaders. When a kicker is named captain, then that shows how young a team is.

The quarterback failures and offensive line's lack of strength has been a bad recipe so far. However, the last four minutes showed that this team has some life with Kam as QB. It'll get better, but Satterfield is taking his lumps.

Didn't Coach Moore bench a senior captain QB?

[PaladinFan]

Jamal Londry-Jackson shouldn't be the starter anymore. He's can't run the offense the way it needs to be run and when he was benched, he sulked and stayed away from others. Senior captain right there. He always had a problem throwing off his back foot and on the run and returning from ACL surgery which has limited his running threat, he's mentally gone. The other offensive captains Washington and Peacock don't seem to be great leaders. When a kicker is named captain, then that shows how young a team is.

The quarterback failures and offensive line's lack of strength has been a bad recipe so far. However, the last four minutes showed that this team has some life with Kam as QB. It'll get better, but Satterfield is taking his lumps.

I don't get it, the guy is a two year starter and you read his bio on the App State site it just gushes about how good of a QB he is.

[WataugaDave]

Was at the game - I left before half as did many others

I missed the first quarter because of work and despite the loss I'm glad I stuck it out 'til the end. The last few minutes, while they didn't get the job done, gave me the closest feeling to hope yet.

Here's some cool aerial shots from the game, you may have noticed the little R/C helicopter flying around - http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.184086528443069.1073741855.139130392938683&type=3

And if any of the pictures catch your eye you can get it as a poster. (http://nelsonaerials.com/Prices_Donations.html)

[T-Dog]

Didn't Coach Moore bench a senior captain QB?

Sort of. Presley got a concussion, Jamal came in for the El Citadel win where he played great and Presley asked to be moved to defense to play corner and made the NFL as such. Presley was also mentally shot by that point and was trying way too hard, but at least he cared and acted like a captain unlike JLJ.

And yes, the fall of JLJ has been quite shocking.

In 2011 we were three lucky plays away from being 4-7. In 2012 we were one less Sean Price from being 5-6. A lot of this has been building for years. Lack of quality OL recruiting, Dale Jones' inability to coach a secondary, massive staff turnover due to staff issues and much more. One big question mark is can Satterfield call plays from the sideline?

On a positive note, I love this defense. They've had to deal with some garbage situations this year, but they're on track to be dominant in 2014/15.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It relates to any fan (not you specifically although you seem to fall into the category) IF they put their desires over what is best for the university.

No, I fall into the category that believes differently than you in what "best" is, that's all. The football fans that want FBS could be said to be as self interested as anyone they say are only concerned about their own interests. I'm fine with whatever category I fall into.

[eaglewraith]

I'm legitimately confused. Satterfield was the OC last year, and I'm assuming he's still calling the offensive plays this year. Where does the new scheme come into play? If anything, you should be running the same thing as last year. Honestly, what's different? In the offseason I heard indications that App was going to be more of an Air Raid team, but that seems directly opposite of what made those 2005-2008 App teams so damn dangerous and near unstoppable.

[PaladinFan]

Sort of. Presley got a concussion, Jamal came in for the El Citadel win where he played great and Presley asked to be moved to defense to play corner and made the NFL as such. Presley was also mentally shot by that point and was trying way too hard, but at least he cared and acted like a captain unlike JLJ.

And yes, the fall of JLJ has been quite shocking.

In 2011 we were three lucky plays away from being 4-7. In 2012 we were one less Sean Price from being 5-6. A lot of this has been building for years. Lack of quality OL recruiting, Dale Jones' inability to coach a secondary, massive staff turnover due to staff issues and much more. One big question mark is can Satterfield call plays from the sideline?

On a positive note, I love this defense. They've had to deal with some garbage situations this year, but they're on track to be dominant in 2014/15.

I think you do make a good point on the offensive line recruiting. I cannot give you specifics, but I remember a number of years ago App seemed to have highly regarded recruiting classes full of specialists, but missed out on a lot of their line targets.

[Saint3333]

No, I fall into the category that believes differently than you in what "best" is, that's all. The football fans that want FBS could be said to be as self interested as anyone they say are only concerned about their own interests. I'm fine with whatever category I fall into.

This isn't about you, stop taking it so personal.

Our leaders decided what is best for the university, not a group of fans. I will give the same amount of money to Appalachian as a university and the athletic department whether we are FBS or FCS.

[Apphole]

I'm legitimately confused. Satterfield was the OC last year, and I'm assuming he's still calling the offensive plays this year. Where does the new scheme come into play? If anything, you should be running the same thing as last year. Honestly, what's different? In the offseason I heard indications that App was going to be more of an Air Raid team, but that seems directly opposite of what made those 2005-2008 App teams so damn dangerous and near unstoppable.

A limp-**** QB. Plain and simple. Aside from a few newbie mistakes, the O hasn't looked too bad behind Kam. He played the whole second half and we still lost, granted, but how often does a MEAC school punt the ball out at the one yard line four times in 2 quarters. It felt like God himself was an Aggie fan.

[Apphole]

I think you do make a good point on the offensive line recruiting. I cannot give you specifics, but I remember a number of years ago App seemed to have highly regarded recruiting classes full of specialists, but missed out on a lot of their line targets.

Yes. We're still feeling the inadequacies of the Bush Admini...I mean Moore administration.

We went two years without acquiring many sufficient big men. And we've under coached them with terrible position coach hires in that department to boot.

[AppMan]

Was at the game - I left before half as did many others - was tailgating with many right by the stadium - there are a lot of people who have already stopped supporting the school Cobb has put us in a real bind, did not handle the Moore situation and has hired an inept coach - satterfield must go - now!! I was never in support of moving to FBS so I may not renew my season tickets - reason is there will be plenty of seats Last night was a great night game with great weather but the alumni were missing the students pushed the attendance up but if you looked at the Alumi seats it was really sad all around us were nothing but empty seats - ASu is headed in the wrong direction - things are going to get much worse

I've been very vocal in my anti 1-AA & FCS opinion since App was kicked down 1983. But instead of pouting like a 10 year old who didn't get their way over those 30 years I continued to buy season tickets, steadily increase my donations to Yosef, help organized alumni meetings and golf fundraisers and supported my team away from Boone traveling to 80% of the away games.

ASU will be better off without "fans" like you.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This isn't about you, stop taking it so personal.

Our leaders decided what is best for the university, not a group of fans. I will give the same amount of money to Appalachian as a university and the athletic department whether we are FBS or FCS.

I've conceded that many times. You seem to miss my point though that opinions vary on unknown outcomes. Not personal man.

You are misreading things a little here I think.

[T-Dog]

I think you do make a good point on the offensive line recruiting. I cannot give you specifics, but I remember a number of years ago App seemed to have highly regarded recruiting classes full of specialists, but missed out on a lot of their line targets.

In 2007 we had zero offensive line recruits. A couple years later we had one or two and then one of them had a heat stroke on the first day of camp and almost died. Then the Bob McClain two years happened in 2010 and 2011 where he tried to run off every freshman. Current player Kendall Lamm actually quit during the 2011 season but came back after McClain was fired. During the Shawn Elliot years, we were always undersized but had a steady line of experienced players plus Elliot knew how to coach footwork, leverage and blocking schemes. Ledford, even though he was an NFL OL, seems to be a work in progress. Also, there's been some serious strength training issues the last couple years with players cutting weight for speed rather than bulking up for size.

[PhillyApp1]

RIP ASU football.

F U Hooner49..... Play App State or shut your keyboard you chicken *****

[AppMan]

I don't get it, the guy is a two year starter and you read his bio on the App State site it just gushes about how good of a QB he is.

I've never been sold on Jackson and have been on record saying so many times. He piled up big numbers on teams who did not rush him. Give him time to get comfortable and he'll complete passes. Force him to run and he makes mistakes - a lot of 'em. Now we find ourselves in the unenviable position of having a QB playing scared behind a O-line that can't block, no proven RB and a very young back 8 in a totally new defensive scheme. On top of it all we haven't been able to cover kicks since Sparky Woods was coach. I feel bad for Scott. None of this was his making, but he is going to get the blame.

[Saint3333]

I've conceded that many times. You seem to miss my point though that opinions vary on unknown outcomes. Not personal man.

You are misreading things a little here I think.

i don't think so. Of course people have differing opinions , but what one fan thinks is "best" is inconsequential. You have stated that you would not support the program as much if your decision makers decided a move to the WAC was in the best interest of the university (this is a much bigger decision than what is best for the football program). We differ in that my support has been there even in the years App decided against what I thout was best.

[PhillyApp1]

Was at the game - I left before half as did many others - was tailgating with many right by the stadium - there are a lot of people who have already stopped supporting the school Cobb has put us in a real bind, did not handle the Moore situation and has hired an inept coach - satterfield must go - now!! I was never in support of moving to FBS so I may not renew my season tickets - reason is there will be plenty of seats Last night was a great night game with great weather but the alumni were missing the students pushed the attendance up but if you looked at the Alumi seats it was really sad all around us were nothing but empty seats - ASu is headed in the wrong direction - things are going to get much worse

Stay out in the parking lot....Moore is a bigger cause of this then Cobb or Satterfield ....and you can stay in the FCS ....you will be bellyaching after every lose in the future...coach Moore's last three years caused this....give me answers to the 3 straight home playoff loses, the players getting into serious off the field issues, his son and his continual problems, the fact that 10 Oline players asked him for help and he told them they could leave, the celebration penalties, and on and on ....it will take 2 years to recover from Moores crap......but i still think he is a normal person, no better or worse than any of us.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

i don't think so. Of course people have differing opinions , but what one fan thinks is "best" is inconsequential. You have stated that you would not support the program as much if your decision makers decided a move to the WAC was in the best interest of the university (this is a much bigger decision than what is best for the football program). We differ in that my support has been there even in the years App decided against what I thout was best.

Yeah it's my money. I don't have to spend it to go along with what others want, which is more money. The whole point I was making in the first place is that back then I said these "bigger crowds" comments might not be all they were being dreamed of because some may not want to continue to buy the product once it had changed...that is what usually happens.

You had that same choice to be sure. You made that choice at a discount, I would not be. Different strokes man.xthumbsupx

[UNH Fanboi]

It will be interesting to see what happens to App's attendance numbers if they keep losing.

[PhillyApp1]

That can't be right. Playing a soft cover 2 against an FBS team that is going to dominate the Sun Belt for the next decade?

Now, i feel much better that you are not a Lehigh grad, and you write for a profession, BUT you are not professional... Your written opinions are verifiably silly as the responses most people post about them....you should take greatappstate's advice and write like a professional instead of a upset teenage girl ;-).

[AppChicago]

It will be interesting to see what happens to App's attendance numbers if they keep losing.
They'll go down. What's interesting about that?

[PhillyApp1]

It will be interesting to see what happens to App's attendance numbers if they keep losing.

We are not as bad as the last two loses and not as good as some think so the future attendance will vary.....I agree, we will find out who are the band wagon jumpers ... App is in transition and needs to be more humble...less Unequal crap and Always Attack which i think is a IMG marketing thing that does nothing.

[Apphole]

It will be interesting to see what happens to App's attendance numbers if they keep losing.

We could lose 5,000 of the season average and still lead this subdivision.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

We could lose 5,000 of the season average and still lead this subdivision.

See there App is back in the win column already.

[PaladinFan]

We are not as bad as the last two loses and not as good as some think so the future attendance will vary.....I agree, we will find out who are the band wagon jumpers ... App is in transition and needs to be more humble...less Unequal crap and Always Attack which i think is a IMG marketing thing that does nothing.

A point I've made numerous times. App does not have a long history of high attendance a la Montana and Georgia Southern. It's a relatively recent phenomena (8-10 years), and only started in 2005ish with their first national title. Was not that long ago they drew about half of what they draw now.

It would be a concerning trend to see the numbers already dipping and the team hasn't even played an FBS schedule yet. There's just not a long history of that many folks showing up to leave me feeling like the attendance numbers would stay high when the team is bad. We just don't know.

[UNH Fanboi]

They'll go down. What's interesting about that?

It's interesting because they haven't had a losing season in quite a while, but will likely have at least a few once they are full FBS. So attendance this year could foreshadow what their attendance looks like in a few years after the novelty of FBS has worn off.

[AppChicago]

It's interesting because they haven't had a losing season in quite a while, but will likely have at least a few once they are full FBS. So attendance this year could foreshadow what their attendance looks like in a few years after the novelty of FBS has worn off.
So the solution to that would be to at some point start winning games again. Which is kind of the plan.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ask UMass how their return to winning plan is working out.

[WataugaDave]

Oh man, I wish I could voice my displeasure by refusing to donate to athletics. xrolleyesx

Which is a pretty terrible route to go unless you're a fairweather "fan." Support is kind of most needed during this transition period.

[Wallace]

Oh man, I wish I could voice my displeasure by refusing to donate to athletics. xrolleyesx Which is a pretty terrible route to go unless you're a fairweather "fan." Support is kind of most needed during this transition period.

If they do not agree with the transition it doesn't make them "fairweather fans". Their voice is just as important as those who donate, money does not make a person more important. ASU/GSU folks need to let up on those who are not gungho on FBS, the costs and the football losses which are coming.

Have to agree that the NCA&T loss is not very nice for ASU.

[Professor]

What's wrong with NCA&T

[AppMan]

If they do not agree with the transition it doesn't make them "fairweather fans". Their voice is just as important as those who donate, money does not make a person more important. ASU/GSU folks need to let up on those who are not gungho on FBS, the costs and the football losses which are coming.

Have to agree that the NCA&T is not very nice.

Know a few people who do not agree with moving up who will continue to buy season tickets and donate just as much as they always have. Voicing displeasure with the move is one thing, acting like a spoiled brat about not getting their way is completely different. ASU would never have been in the position to move up had it not been for many who continued to buy tickets and increase their giving even though they didn't especially care for I-AA/FCS. That is the difference in a true fan and a fair weather fan.

[AppMan]

Stay out in the parking lot....Moore is a bigger cause of this then Cobb or Satterfield ....and you can stay in the FCS ....you will be bellyaching after every lose in the future...coach Moore's last three years caused this....give me answers to the 3 straight home playoff loses, the players getting into serious off the field issues, his son and his continual problems, the fact that 10 Oline players asked him for help and he told them they could leave, the celebration penalties, and on and on ....it will take 2 years to recover from Moores crap......but i still think he is a normal person, no better or worse than any of us.

Philly you and I have had our squabbles in the past, but I'm with you 100% on this! xthumbsupx

[Wallace]

What's wrong with NCA&T

fixed

[ASUMountaineer]

I've refrained from commenting because I wanted to do so without great emotion. Here is the most unbiased assessment I can give:

1) JL-J is obviously not 100%, and as highly as I think of him it may be time for Kam Bryant (just as Presley had to give way for JL-J).
2) Our running game is in serious trouble, and I think a lot of that hinges on JL-J not being 100%.
3) Thank God they finally threw the ball to Andrew Peacock! (that may have been a bit emotional)
4) This is serious. I don't think we've been a good team the past two years, but we had an experienced, legendary coach that was able to mask our deficiencies and win some games. Now, we have a first-time HC, a revamped coaching staff, and a young team that just went through the most change-filled offseason for App State in over 40 years. The coaching staff doesn't have the seasoning to mask our deficiencies now, and are learning on the job. This much change and newness is not being kind to the Apps.
5) I didn't expect us to pick up where we left off, but I never expected us to lose to A&T.
6) A&T played an excellent game...kudos to the Aggies.

With all of that said, there is still talent and hope with this squad. I still believe in Satterfield, and I'll always believe in App State! It's [still] great to be a Mountaineer!

[ASUMountaineer]

Remember - this is the equivalent of an FBS win for NCAT.

I bet you had to change pants.

[ASUMountaineer]

Under Coach Moore:
App State 58, NC A&T 6 (2011)
App State 35, Montana 27 (2012)

Under Satterfield:
App State 6, Montana 30
App State 21, NC A&T 24

And yet the team that just got those two scores is supposed to be getting FBS ready.

Nice run during the fourth quarter, I guess, but I'm pretty sure the team slogan isn't "Attack in the last 5 minutes of the game."

Jerry Moore isn't walking through that door. Time to let it go.

[ASUMountaineer]

Chuck, should a national sports writer such as yourself be making hack dispersions on fan message boards? Is that something professionals do?

Like he would know.

[AppChicago]

Ask UMass how their return to winning plan is working out.
In terms of attendance? Which is the subject of the post I was responding to? They drew 15624 to their home opener this year. In 2006, the year they went to the championships, they drew 8191 for their home opener. In 07, that jumped to 12294. Average was around 11k in '06 and 13k in '07 and they only surpassed the '13 home open total once during those two seasons. So I don't see the correlation in the same way that you do.

I'm glad everyone's itching to declare App's move a failure, but unfortunately it will take time before we really know anything. And that cuts both ways. We may all rue the day we made the switch, but I'll pass on the doom and gloom until then, thanks.

[Baldy]

If they do not agree with the transition it doesn't make them "fairweather fans". Their voice is just as important as those who donate, money does not make a person more important. ASU/GSU folks need to let up on those who are not gungho on FBS, the costs and the football losses which are coming.

Have to agree that the NCA&T loss is not very nice for ASU.
Unfortunately, the amount of money you donate does make you more important than ones who don't in collegiate athletics, and that fact is true regardless of the level of football played.

Coincidentally, the anti-FBS'ers need to let up themselves. The bell has rung and the contracts are already signed. It's over, get over it.

[Waco Kid]

I don't get it, the guy is a two year starter and you read his bio on the App State site it just gushes about how good of a QB he is.

He isn't the same guy that took the field last year. His knee isn't healthy, he pinched a nerve in his should against Montana, and he is playing not to get hurt. It's a tough situation for Satterfield as a first year head coach, and I think more than anything he was giving Jamal a chance simply because he was a 5th year senior AA. At this point Jamal has to realize he is hurting the team when he is on the field. Gotta go with the young guy.

[LosHogan]

Plain and simple.


Go App State. We could lose a 1000 games in a row and I'd still cheer for them. We will right the ship. And I LOVE that App is being looked at as an underdog now. Please, please, please underestimate this team. It'll be the best thing for us.




Oh and Saint....don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[marenlee]

In terms of attendance? Which is the subject of the post I was responding to? They drew 15624 to their home opener this year. In 2006, the year they went to the championships, they drew 8191 for their home opener. In 07, that jumped to 12294. Average was around 11k in '06 and 13k in '07 and they only surpassed the '13 home open total once during those two seasons. So I don't see the correlation in the same way that you do.

I'm glad everyone's itching to declare App's move a failure, but unfortunately it will take time before we really know anything. And that cuts both ways. We may all rue the day we made the switch, but I'll pass on the doom and gloom until then, thanks.

I'm not getting into either side of the argument. But those numbers probably don't mean much. I highly doubt 15k attended the UMASS game. I may be wrong. But case in point, Georgia State announced 15k at their game against UTC. Actual butts in seats <5k.

[PaladinFan]

He isn't the same guy that took the field last year. His knee isn't healthy, he pinched a nerve in his should against Montana, and he is playing not to get hurt. It's a tough situation for Satterfield as a first year head coach, and I think more than anything he was giving Jamal a chance simply because he was a 5th year senior AA. At this point Jamal has to realize he is hurting the team when he is on the field. Gotta go with the young guy.

The backup QB is always the most popular guy on the team.

Looking over the numbers it appears ASU had 67 yards on the ground against A&T and 123 against Montana. That's probably not going to get it done. App's offense relies so heavily on that read option to keep teams honest. Going to be tough sledding if the QB won't keep it.

[ASUMountaineer]

Plain and simple.


Go App State. We could lose a 1000 games in a row and I'd still cheer for them. We will right the ship. And I LOVE that App is being looked at as an underdog now. Please, please, please underestimate this team. It'll be the best thing for us.




Oh and Saint....don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Wait...what? xlolx

[Waco Kid]

Under Coach Moore:
App State 58, NC A&T 6 (2011)
App State 35, Montana 27 (2012)

Under Satterfield:
App State 6, Montana 30
App State 21, NC A&T 24

And yet the team that just got those two scores is supposed to be getting FBS ready.

Nice run during the fourth quarter, I guess, but I'm pretty sure the team slogan isn't "Attack in the last 5 minutes of the game."


Yea, because JM would never lose to A&T...




I guess you forgot about his loss to them in 1993 and going 4-7.

[Waco Kid]

The backup QB is always the most popular guy on the team.

Looking over the numbers it appears ASU had 67 yards on the ground against A&T and 123 against Montana. That's probably not going to get it done. App's offense relies so heavily on that read option to keep teams honest. Going to be tough sledding if the QB won't keep it.

You're making my point for me. Jamal is so banged up he can't run the ball and both defenses knew it. Kam is a much better runner but he came into the game down 24-6 with less than 2 qtrs. to play. Also, our average starting field position has been inside the 20 with 11 possessions starting inside the 15. Credit two outstanding punters for Montana and A&T who have combined to average 49 yards a punt. It's hard to run your normal offense when you have terrible field position, and either a QB who has barely played or one that can barely even move.

[knucklehead]

xpopcornx

xangelx

[PhillyApp1]

Ask UMass how their return to winning plan is working out.

Another professional post ??

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Another professional post ??

...


So the solution to that would be to at some point start winning games again. Which is kind of the plan.


Ask UMass how their return to winning plan is working out.

Though seemingly every App State fan is in denial about this, UMass at least deserves some consideration as a case study as to what can happen when a FCS team moves to FBS with a prerequisite being "win right away" in order to keep people coming to the games.

If App State can keep their average above 15,000 during the process to FBS, great! But it's not going to be as easy as people think.

[AppChicago]

I'm not getting into either side of the argument. But those numbers probably don't mean much. I highly doubt 15k attended the UMASS game. I may be wrong. But case in point, Georgia State announced 15k at their game against UTC. Actual butts in seats <5k.

Sure. Numbers get inflated, but they're the numbers we have, and they don't lend much credence to the idea that a (so far) unsuccessful FBS move will kill your attendance. What's more, the UMass/App comparison is pretty weak all the way around. They had lower attendance before, during and after the transition, joined a conference for which they are less well-suited than App for the SBC, etc.

[AppChicago]

If App State can keep their average above 15,000 during the process to FBS, great! But it's not going to be as easy as people think.

Will it be easy? Nah. But will it be as hard as it has been for UMass? Given where they started, their average attendance, and their all-time attendance records, I don't see the comparison.

[AppChicago]

Hate to play Joe Friday on you ("Just the facts, Ma'am"), but Appalachian State has averaged LESS than 15,000 in the years since I started covering the program. Decades? I don't have access to the exact figures as I am posting this away from home at the moment, but I'll follow up later.

And for all of you App supporters who are so sure that this is the best move for the ASU athletic program (let's look at all things, not just football here), maybe a university CAN make a mistake on what's best for itself. Do you think all of those other who failed with their moves thought they were going to struggle in the FBS ranks? You need to read some of the facts Doug Fullerton, the commissioner of the Big Sky Conference, and others have put together on the subject. Not many schools become Boise State.

Here are some actual facts. It hasn't been decades since we averaged less than 15k at home. We were below that 2000-2004 (We averaged 13,566 in 2004, 14,661 in '03, etc.) and, with the exception of '86, '88, '90-92, and '99, every year before that. http://www.goasu.com//pdf8/709557.pdf?SPSID=104441&SPID=12805&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=21500

But I still don't see a meteoric decline on the horizon considering how much football culture at App State has changed since then.

[Apphole]

Hate to play Joe Friday on you ("Just the facts, Ma'am"), but Appalachian State has averaged LESS than 15,000 in the years since I started covering the program. Decades? I don't have access to the exact figures as I am posting this away from home at the moment, but I'll follow up later.

And for all of you App supporters who are so sure that this is the best move for the ASU athletic program (let's look at all things, not just football here), maybe a university CAN make a mistake on what's best for itself. Do you think all of those other who failed with their moves thought they were going to struggle in the FBS ranks? You need to read some of the facts Doug Fullerton, the commissioner of the Big Sky Conference, and others have put together on the subject. Not many schools become Boise State.

I think they would drop football before they decided to move back down.

How can you koolaid drinkers not see your selective reasoning here? You're holding that Boise level success up as the only measure of prosperity after a move and that, say, Marshall, even though their transition was excellent and they still enjoy more support than 95% of the current FCS is some sort of colossal failure.

I'll tell you what a colossal failure would be: maybe an Idaho -- a Georgia State perhaps (they have a few years to redeem themselves but they're off to an abysmal start). I'll tell you right now that App is absolutely incapable of sinking that low on the field and in the stands. I would consider Marshal a success. W/L record of any particular year does not a program make. It's about perception, cash flow, brand, regional competition and rivalries with teams your fans give a **** about, facilities -- these are too important to be collectively swept under the rug by a hack "journalist" or two who have made a schtick out of bad mouthing the dominant division 1 subdivision.

LFN and Dave C are FCS demagogues that conscript the most thinly veiled bias I have ever read.


**Caveat of earlier post. I omitted the short period in which we had an AD scuttling attendance. <15k is unfathomable in the modern App State era.***

[Apphole]

As I've said before, not one team that has made the jump to IA/FBS has moved back down or dropped football. And no team to my knowledge is doing worse in attendance in the FBS than they did in the FCS. And most of these teams weren't as consistently successful or as good with attendance as Georgia Southern and App. State. I see no way App. State averages below 15k this year even if they have a losing season.

GSU is another story. I'm surprised no one has yet to point out GSU's lackluster attendance yet. It has been disappointing, but we did sell more season tickets than we have in any of the last 3 seasons and we were not too far from a 23 year high. I think both programs will be fine. College football is just bigger in the southeast than it is in the northeast.

It was my understanding that your stadium construction has reduced capacity a good bit for the year and that accounted for your bad attendance?

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

It was my understanding that your stadium construction has reduced capacity a good bit for the year and that accounted for your bad attendance?

Depends on which GSU fan you ask.

[Lehigh'98]

As I've said before, not one team that has made the jump to IA/FBS has moved back down or dropped football. And no team to my knowledge is doing worse in attendance in the FBS than they did in the FCS. And most of these teams weren't as consistently successful or as good with attendance as Georgia Southern and App. State. I see no way App. State averages below 15k this year even if they have a losing season.

GSU is another story. I'm surprised no one has yet to point out GSU's lackluster attendance yet. It has been disappointing, but we did sell more season tickets than we have in any of the last 3 seasons and we were not too far from a 23 year high. I think both programs will be fine. College football is just bigger in the southeast than it is in the northeast.

It may have to do with the fact that the 2 teams you played have been God awful. Unless you are talking about more than just this year.

[ASUMountaineer]

...





Though seemingly every App State fan is in denial about this, UMass at least deserves some consideration as a case study as to what can happen when a FCS team moves to FBS with a prerequisite being "win right away" in order to keep people coming to the games.

If App State can keep their average above 15,000 during the process to FBS, great! But it's not going to be as easy as people think.

The only one in denial is you. UMass and App State are not comparable. One is in a region where college football is an afterthought playing it's home games 90 miles away from campus. The other is in the unquestionable hotbed of college football passion, and play on campus. Come on LFN, we know you're a hack, but you should have better stuff than this. Very bad weaksauce, my man.

No one, in their right mind, should think the transition will be easy.

[PhillyApp1]

Please. There is no scenario that we come close to averaging less than 15k a season.

You are a sad, delusional little man.

LFN, Apphole writes with better information and is more professional than you, which makes me laugh cause his name is "APPhole" and you embarrass Lehigh ...LMFAO

[ASUMountaineer]

Hate to play Joe Friday on you ("Just the facts, Ma'am"), but Appalachian State has averaged LESS than 15,000 in the years since I started covering the program. Decades? I don't have access to the exact figures as I am posting this away from home at the moment, but I'll follow up later.

And for all of you App supporters who are so sure that this is the best move for the ASU athletic program (let's look at all things, not just football here), maybe a university CAN make a mistake on what's best for itself. Do you think all of those other who failed with their moves thought they were going to struggle in the FBS ranks? You need to read some of the facts Doug Fullerton, the commissioner of the Big Sky Conference, and others have put together on the subject. Not many schools become Boise State.

You're not even trying to be unbiased, Dave.

FYI, I'm not "sure" this is the best move for App State's athletic program, as I didn't have all of information as the decision makers did (neither did LFN). But, I'll take the decision of the App State Chancellor, AD, and BOT over the decision of an FCS hack like LFN any day. I have asked him at least 10 times to explain how he has more knowledge about what's best for App State than the actual administrators at App State, or to show how it is the wrong move for App State. His refusal to answer, or provide anything of substance at all, is very telling. He is nothing more than a troll, and an admitted hater of FBS. Your support of his weak arguments is disappointing, though not unexpected.

I have agreed with you many times in the past (even backed you up on AGS), but not this time. You can be as condescending as you'd like, but your biased opinion is as worthless as those you deride.

[eaglewraith]

It was my understanding that your stadium construction has reduced capacity a good bit for the year and that accounted for your bad attendance?

We're pretty much capped at 18k for the year due to the construction. We've also started making students pick up tickets to get in the game, which is something they've never had to do before so it's causing a little bit of rebellion/apathy in the students right now although it's the right move to make for the future. The teams we've played combined with the opponents UGA has had in the first 2 weeks hasn't helped either as well as the pro-FCSers protesting a little bit.

[ASUMountaineer]

For the record, I have no problem with folks preferring the FCS to the FBS. Just because I am a "pro-FBSer" doesn't mean that I can't see the other side. The only time I take issue is with the militant FCS folks like LFN, who are only out to troll. It's not enough for him to say, "I think App State should have stayed FCS, but best of luck, we're rooting for you!" No, he has to take the low road. He is above reproach, and knows more about App State than even the Chancellor. xlolx I'm not one for using school yard tactics, but there's only one appropriate word to describe LFN, and that's "hack."

[blueballs]

It was my understanding that your stadium construction has reduced capacity a good bit for the year and that accounted for your bad attendance?

That might be part of it... playing Sav St and St Francis while UGA was playing Clemson and Spurrier might be part of it... it has been hot as balls so that might be part of it... they changed the way students get tickets and that might be part of it...

... All of the above.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm not one for using school yard tactics, but there's only one appropriate word to describe LFN, and that's "hack."

Perhaps if you keep repeating it, you'll believe it to be true. There's a lesson there somewhere.

[PaladinFan]

What the **** do you know about the ASU fanbase?

We haven't slipped below 15k in decades. It won't start if we have a rough transition and it won't happen because we lost to A&T. You are the most presumptuous hack on the planet.

It's not going to be as easy as people think blah blah blah. Actually, if the task is averaging more than 15k, yes -- yes it will be easy. People show up because they love App, they love the town of Boone and they love the gameday experience. Maybe you should consider more factors than W/L record in your crystal ball predictions of any program with a B in their subdivision.

Oh, and get a life you arrogant twat.

I've said the same thing for a while now, but we have no idea what App State's attendance will do if the team starts to suffer. ASU (and this is irrefutable) does not have a 20-30 year history of packing their games to the gills.

The point is App is a football school in a basketball state. They are not the flagship university. Their fans (like most FCS schools, particularly in the south) have varying allegiances to larger programs. Their attendance was not very good when the team was not very good. Will that trend continue? Dunno. We'll have to wait for a down season to really find out. This year might be a good test case.

[ASUMountaineer]

Perhaps if you keep repeating it, you'll believe it to be true. There's a lesson there somewhere.

You're right...I do give in to school yard tactics more than I should. But hey, at least the hack part is true. xthumbsupx

Still waiting on an answer as to how you know more about what's best for App State than the App State Chancellor, AD, and BOT. Maybe you can ask Dave to help you out. xlolx Again, why can't you just stop at "I think App State should have stayed FCS, but best of luck, we're rooting for you!" Nah, you're only rooting for us to fail.

Troll-lol-lol-lol.

[SoCon2013]

What the **** do you know about the ASU fanbase?

We haven't slipped below 15k in decades. It won't start if we have a rough transition and it won't happen because we lost to A&T. You are the most presumptuous hack on the planet.

It's not going to be as easy as people think blah blah blah. Actually, if the task is averaging more than 15k, yes -- yes it will be easy. People show up because they love App, they love the town of Boone and they love the gameday experience. Maybe you should consider more factors than W/L record in your crystal ball predictions of any program with a B in their subdivision.

Oh, and get a life you arrogant twat.

1993 13,446 1993 13,446 1994 14,921 1995 12,601 1995 12,601 1996 14,289 1997 12,624 1998 13,077 2000. 13,016 2001 12,123 2002 12,586 2003 14,461 2004 13,556

Of course these include home play-off games

[ASUMountaineer]

For the record, I have no problem with folks preferring the FCS to the FBS. Just because I am a "pro-FBSer" doesn't mean that I can't see the other side. The only time I take issue is with the militant FCS folks like LFN, who are only out to troll. It's not enough for him to say, "I think App State should have stayed FCS, but best of luck, we're rooting for you!" No, he has to take the low road. He is above reproach, and knows more about App State than even the Chancellor. xlolx I'm not one for using school yard tactics, but there's only one appropriate word to describe LFN, and that's "hack."

xlolx I got a little red chicklet for this post.

To the offended party, I apologize that you're so thin-skinned that an anonymous message board poster upset your delicate sensibilities. Please accept this heart-felt apology, it certainly wasn't my intention to cause such sadness. I simply call it as I see it.

[SoCon2013]

As to it being J Moore's fault that App is 0 fer 2. It's Bush's fault. :)

[The Cats]

What the **** do you know about the ASU fanbase?

We haven't slipped below 15k in decades..


Apphole, as usual, you've got a faulty memory

Here's the Official NCAA attendance numbers




1998 - 14,916
1999 - 18,355
2000 - 13,016
2001 -
10,030

2002 - 12,586
2003 - 14,661
2004 - not listed
2005 - 17,917
2006 - 20,546
2007 - 24,218
2008 - 25,161
2009 - 24,004
2010 - 25,715
2011 - 26,211
2012 - 26,358









http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Stats/Football/Attendance/index.html

[Lehigh Football Nation]

xlolx I got a little red chicklet for this post.

To the offended party, I apologize that you're so thin-skinned that an anonymous message board poster upset your delicate sensibilities. Please accept this heart-felt apology, it certainly wasn't my intention to cause such sadness. I simply call it as I see it.

I gave no red chicklet out, for the record.

[PhillyApp1]

Apphole, as usual, you've got a faulty memory

Here's the Official NCAA attendance numbers




1998 - 14,916
1999 - 18,355
2000 - 13,016
2001 -
10,030

2002 - 12,586
2003 - 14,661
2004 - not listed
2005 - 17,917
2006 - 20,546
2007 - 24,218
2008 - 25,161
2009 - 24,004
2010 - 25,715
2011 - 26,211
2012 - 26,358









Cats, he admitted to not being totally accurate ...its the idea 13k less fans per game are not going to show up.
We will get better and I seriously doubt we go anywhere under 20k....Its way to much fun before and after the games in Boone .


But, I will say Western has a great opportunity to take the Jug back....added drama for the game ....its really exciting for both schools ... and you are welcome for your new coaches and future success !!

[ASUMountaineer]

I gave no red chicklet out, for the record.

I actually didn't think it was you. You've endured much worse than what I posted.

Also FTR, as I said before, I have no problem with you--or anyone--not supporting the App State move...my only issue is with the way you go about it.

[PhillyApp1]

I gave no red chicklet out, for the record.

Now, that was funny.....maybe you are a comedian and we didn't know it.

I like this side of you ;-)

[Saint3333]

Plain and simple.


Go App State. We could lose a 1000 games in a row and I'd still cheer for them. We will right the ship. And I LOVE that App is being looked at as an underdog now. Please, please, please underestimate this team. It'll be the best thing for us.




Oh and Saint....don't let the door hit you on the way out.

There must be another Saint on here or someone's reading comprehension is lacking...

[Baldy]

It may have to do with the fact that the 2 teams you played have been God awful. Unless you are talking about more than just this year.
That, or the fact it was hotter than a sunspot, or that UGAy opened the season against 2 top 10 teams instead of Buffalo or UL-Lafayette. The jury is still out right now, we'll see what the numbers are when we play Chatty, Furman or Cit.

[AppMan]

Hate to play Joe Friday on you ("Just the facts, Ma'am"), but Appalachian State has averaged LESS than 15,000 in the years since I started covering the program. Decades? I don't have access to the exact figures as I am posting this away from home at the moment, but I'll follow up later.

And for all of you App supporters who are so sure that this is the best move for the ASU athletic program (let's look at all things, not just football here), maybe a university CAN make a mistake on what's best for itself. Do you think all of those other who failed with their moves thought they were going to struggle in the FBS ranks? You need to read some of the facts Doug Fullerton, the commissioner of the Big Sky Conference, and others have put together on the subject. Not many schools become Boise State.

DC, you're not telling the whole story and you know it. If anyone knows the reason for App's poor football attendance in the past it should be you. You had to deal first hand with that clown of an AD and his gestapo assistant. You also know ASU had the great misfortune of being under the influence of one of the greatest do-nothing chancellor's in the country. As soon as those guys were dispatched our football attendance soared.... and it was BEFORE the first NC.

*Last 5 years under Bork & Laney: 2000-13,016, 01-13,278, 02-14,242, 03-14,661, 04-13,556
*First year under Peacock & Cobb: 21,362 - or 6,700 more than the best year under Bork & Laney

Put aside your FCS prejudices and look at the situation for what it is. App isn't Boise, UMass or anyone else for that matter. Each situation is completely different and any comparison is worthless. This is decision was made by App people based on what WE felt was in the best interest of the university. Why not just be happy for App and let it be.

* REG SEASON

[AshevilleApp2]

Well this has been pleasant! Congratulations A&T on a well deserved win.

[ImfromClayton]

This whole thread is much to do about nothing. You guys are an entirely different squad with Bryant on the field. JLJ is a high character kid, he's just not playing like he's capable of. You were A&T's super bowl, and despite a ton of mistakes, you still almost came back and won. There's a ton of people shouting from the mountain top about the demise of App football that are going to be eating crow later. With that said, this is not one of the best app teams in recent memory, but you guys are going to be just fine. I'd say about 5 wins is an absolute worst case nightmare scenario. For a lot of programs, that's a good nightmare.

[ASUMountaineer]

DC, you're not telling the whole story and you know it. If anyone knows the reason for App's poor football attendance in the past it should be you. You had to deal first hand with that clown of an AD and his gestapo assistant. You also know ASU had the great misfortune of being under the influence of one of the greatest do-nothing chancellor's in the country. As soon as those guys were dispatched our football attendance soared.... and it was BEFORE the first NC.

Last 5 years under Bork & Laney: 2000-13,016, 01-13,278, 02-14,242, 03-14,661, 04-13,556
First year under Peacock & Cobb: 21,362 - or 6,700 more than the best year under Bork & Laney

Put aside your FCS prejudices and look at the situation for what it is. App isn't Boise, UMass or anyone else for that matter. Each situation is completely different and any comparison is worthless. This is decision was made by App people based on what WE felt was in the best interest of the university. Why not just be happy for App and let it be.

Because...what's in it for him?

[91Niner]

1993 13,446 1993 13,446 1994 14,921 1995 12,601 1995 12,601 1996 14,289 1997 12,624 1998 13,077 2000. 13,016 2001 12,123 2002 12,586 2003 14,461 2004 13,556

Of course these include home play-off games

Great post!

[AppMan]

Because...what's in it for him?

DC is a good friend, but we disagree over some things and have waged a battle over the whole FCS vs FBS thing for quite some time. I understand his opinions are prejudiced by his connection to FCS. With the departure of App & GSU, FCS will be losing two of it's premier programs. Anyone who makes their livelihood covering FCS realizes the loss diminishes potential readership and ultimately revenue. In this particular situation DC is also losing a connection to a program he covered for quite some time and became connected to. I sympathize with him, but disagree with his position. We gotta do what we gotta do!

[Mr. C]

DC, you're not telling the whole story and you know it. If anyone knows the reason for App's poor football attendance in the past it should be you. You had to deal first hand with that clown of an AD and his gestapo assistant. You also know ASU had the great misfortune of being under the influence of one of the greatest do-nothing chancellor's in the country. As soon as those guys were dispatched our football attendance soared.... and it was BEFORE the first NC.

*Last 5 years under Bork & Laney: 2000-13,016, 01-13,278, 02-14,242, 03-14,661, 04-13,556
*First year under Peacock & Cobb: 21,362 - or 6,700 more than the best year under Bork & Laney

Put aside your FCS prejudices and look at the situation for what it is. App isn't Boise, UMass or anyone else for that matter. Each situation is completely different and any comparison is worthless. This is decision was made by App people based on what WE felt was in the best interest of the university. Why not just be happy for App and let it be.

* REG SEASON
I wasn't trying to tell a story, just was correcting some faulty information that was being thrown out there as fact on attendance. Also, I was away from home when I made that post (as I said), so I was unable to dig into it further. At the same time, people do need to look at the fact that few other than Boise State have managed any consistent success with their moves up. You and I have debated this subject ad nauseam over the years (respectfully so). A lot of institutions have made mistakes with these moves over the years. That is a fact. Doug Fullerton's expansive studies on budgets and quartiles are truly significant and should be required reading for any school looking to move up. Leaders make decisions oftentimes in vacuums, without looking at all of the facts. Why is it that almost anyone who has the opinion that ASU should stay put is castigated on the message boards (not by you, but others who routinely are just plain lacking in civility)? As you in particular know, I am a traditionalist and a student of history when it comes to football. I hate how money has polluted our great game. It bothers me that Nebraska and Oklahoma never play now, that Texas and Texas A&M have ended their series and that soon we will probably see the final game between Appalachian State and Furman (truly one of the best rivalries in FCS history). There is a loss of innocence that takes place when teams move from FCS that they will never get back. ASU won't be special in the eyes of people rooting for them to beat Michigan when both ASU and Michigan have 85 scholarships (but little else in common). A lot of us in FCS LOVE the concept of the playoffs and loathe the bowl system. While I enjoy the New Year's Day bowls, most of the rest of them are truly meaningless and cost the teams that play in them money. You cannot tell me that the great Appalachian State-Georgia Southern rivalry will be as meaningful when it is being played for the Sun Belt title at the very most. I hate seeing the breakdown of all of the other special games that ASU plays from year-to-year with teams like Wofford. As lopsided as the series has been, I even hate seeing the passion of the Old Mountain Jug game being lost. As someone who has raised kids in the Boone community, been connected to the community for over 20 years and still owns a home there, I don't think things will ever be the same and I grieve for that. I hate the fact that ASU has been a great resource in covering FCS over the years and it bothers me that I won't have any real reason to cover ASU games after this season, even though the campus is 30 minutes from one of my homes. We saw how quick people were to throw off the tradition of a legendary coach like Jerry Moore (knowing the warts that everyone had in that process). I also have seen how these football-based moves have proved ruinous to other school's athletic programs and I fear for what happens to the other sports on campus. How many sports will eventually be dropped to feed the football machine? I have longtime friends in all areas of the athletic department who may see their livelihoods impacted by this move. And, despite the PR spin that is being presented, there are a lot of folks around ASU who have their doubts about this move, too.They just have to be careful who they express that opinion to. As I have told many people, come back in 10 years and talk to me about how all of this worked out.

Also, DG, you know I had proposed one scenario where I felt it was good for the Mountaineers to move up to another league and to FBS, but the Sun Belt wasn't it. You guys are really rolling the dice with this conference and hoping you can land somewhere else.

I disagree that comparisons are worthless and I also realize that all of us have prejudices. All of the App fans have prejudices as much as anyone else. I can't be happy for someone either when I see them walking down the aisle with the wrong bride.

[ASUMountaineer]

DC is a good friend, but we disagree over some things and have waged a battle over the whole FCS vs FBS thing for quite some time. I understand his opinions are prejudiced by his connection to FCS. With the departure of App & GSU, FCS will be losing two of it's premier programs. Anyone who makes their livelihood covering FCS realizes the loss diminishes potential readership and ultimately revenue. In this particular situation DC is also losing a connection to a program he covered for quite some time and became connected to. I sympathize with him, but disagree with his position. We gotta do what we gotta do!

That's what I was getting at. I don't doubt that DC is a good guy. I've never had the pleasure of meeting him, but if you vouch for him then he must be.

Clearly, I disagree with him on the move up, but only in the sense that: 1) I believe App had little choice and 2) that the admin didn't make this decision blindly or based on some sort of ego. I also don't particularly care for the condescending tone he takes in several of his posts on this subject--especially neg repping me once for disagreeing with him. I readily admit that I did not have access to all of the data used to make the decision, and thus defer to those that did. I have attempted to view the move as objectively as possible. DC has admittedly viewed this subjectively, and I think that's why he and I don't see eye-to-eye.

As I said earlier, I have no problem with disagreement. But, I do have a problem with the way he, and especially LFN, go about voicing their disagreement with the move.

[SpeedkingATL]

After watching this FCS/FBS dead horse get beaten around again all I can say is that I hope the Apps are ready to go to The Swag on 21st and keep Elon's winless SoCon record against the Apps intact. Lots of SoCon football left to play this year and being a spoiler might be a lot of fun and motivation for both App and GaSo.

I'll worry about the Sun Belt and FBS next year when the 2014 schedule is released.

[BluBengal07]

16 pages.... xcoffeex

[Smitty]

16 pages.... xcoffeex

Well it isn't a chattown thread

[ASUMountaineer]

16 pages.... xcoffeex

I believe there is an easy solution...xcoffeex

[AppMan]

I wasn't trying to tell a story, just was correcting some faulty information that was being thrown out there as fact on attendance. Also, I was away from home when I made that post (as I said), so I was unable to dig into it further. At the same time, people do need to look at the fact that few other than Boise State have managed any consistent success with their moves up. You and I have debated this subject ad nauseam over the years (respectfully so). A lot of institutions have made mistakes with these moves over the years. That is a fact. Doug Fullerton's expansive studies on budgets and quartiles are truly significant and should be required reading for any school looking to move up. Leaders make decisions oftentimes in vacuums, without looking at all of the facts. Why is it that almost anyone who has the opinion that ASU should stay put is castigated on the message boards (not by you, but others who routinely are just plain lacking in civility)? As you in particular know, I am a traditionalist and a student of history when it comes to football. I hate how money has polluted our great game. It bothers me that Nebraska and Oklahoma never play now, that Texas and Texas A&M have ended their series and that soon we will probably see the final game between Appalachian State and Furman (truly one of the best rivalries in FCS history). There is a loss of innocence that takes place when teams move from FCS that they will never get back. ASU won't be special in the eyes of people rooting for them to beat Michigan when both ASU and Michigan have 85 scholarships (but little else in common). A lot of us in FCS LOVE the concept of the playoffs and loathe the bowl system. While I enjoy the New Year's Day bowls, most of the rest of them are truly meaningless and cost the teams that play in them money. You cannot tell me that the great Appalachian State-Georgia Southern rivalry will be as meaningful when it is being played for the Sun Belt title at the very most. I hate seeing the breakdown of all of the other special games that ASU plays from year-to-year with teams like Wofford. As lopsided as the series has been, I even hate seeing the passion of the Old Mountain Jug game being lost. As someone who has raised kids in the Boone community, been connected to the community for over 20 years and still owns a home there, I don't think things will ever be the same and I grieve for that. I hate the fact that ASU has been a great resource in covering FCS over the years and it bothers me that I won't have any real reason to cover ASU games after this season, even though the campus is 30 minutes from one of my homes. We saw how quick people were to throw off the tradition of a legendary coach like Jerry Moore (knowing the warts that everyone had in that process). I also have seen how these football-based moves have proved ruinous to other school's athletic programs and I fear for what happens to the other sports on campus. How many sports will eventually be dropped to feed the football machine? I have longtime friends in all areas of the athletic department who may see their livelihoods impacted by this move. And, despite the PR spin that is being presented, there are a lot of folks around ASU who have their doubts about this move, too.They just have to be careful who they express that opinion to. As I have told many people, come back in 10 years and talk to me about how all of this worked out.

Also, DG, you know I had proposed one scenario where I felt it was good for the Mountaineers to move up to another league and to FBS, but the Sun Belt wasn't it. You guys are really rolling the dice with this conference and hoping you can land somewhere else.

I disagree that comparisons are worthless and I also realize that all of us have prejudices. All of the App fans have prejudices as much as anyone else. I can't be happy for someone either when I see them walking down the aisle with the wrong bride.

I don't like the state of affairs in college football any more than you do and it is sad some of the traditional rivalry games I grew up watching don't play any longer. But if you really look at history you see is the only constant in college athletics is change. At one time Sewanee was a college football power in the SEC as was Tulane. Tampa was big time with Freddie Solomon and the University of Chicago was a founding member of the Big Ten. The Southwest conference was as good as it got, but today most college kids don't even know it existed. When people talk about the loss of such great rivals like Furman, Wofford and Western I ask if they think App should have stayed in the Carolina's Conference and maintained rivalries with Guilford, High Point, Lenoir Rhyne and Carson Newman. IMO the loss of games with ECU, Marshall and Wake have been far more damaging than what will be lost with Furman, Wofford or Western. Its all a matter of perspective.

ASU has moved beyond what a majority of FCS has become. Our good friend Otto is fond of using my statement "That stadium on the ASU campus isn't what the NCAA had in mind when they thought up 1-AA." The same can be said for Montana and JMU. In many ways the NCAA forced schools out of 1-AA/FCS and in in reality FCS left us and not the other way around. It is a moot point to argue but the NCAA set 1-AA up to be less that what it could have been. By having maximum scholarship limits without minimums and no attendance requirements the NCAA basically made 1-AA their catch basin. I've argued, in theory, the only thing a school needs to play FCS football is to be D-I in everything else. They don't need a stadium, don't have to give scholarships and no specific number of coaches. They can basically take a club team, line off a cow pasture, put up a couple of goal posts and play FCS football. Then along comes the Dayton Rule in 1993 and things really got out of whack.

As far as the playoffs are concerned I believe that happen with the G5 schools in the not so distant future. I have been somewhat involved with a fellow App broadcasting grad putting together a new internet TV network. He is extremely well connected and says the P5 playoff will consume a lot of TV revenues that would have gone to the G5 guys - one of the main reasons for putting his network together. The loss of that revenue will force conferences to realign and he fully expects ASU, Charlotte, Ga Southern, Ga State, JMU, Marshall, ODU, MTSU and WKU will soon be in the same league. Some insiders are now saying Banowsky made a crucial mistake not taking App because of their so-called small TV market and not aligning his league membership more closely together. Advertisers are becoming more concerned with having their products represented on well attended games in smaller markets than games played in half empty venues in big markets. It doesn't matter how big the market is if nobody is watching the games.

I know you have a soft spot in your heart for ASU and that's why I take it easy on you! xsmiley_wix But under the current conditions in FCS and the state of NC, moving up was the best and only option App had.

[citdog]

I don't like the state of affairs in college football any more than you do and it is sad some of the traditional rivalry games I grew up watching don't play any longer. But if you really look at history you see is the only constant in college athletics is change. At one time Sewanee was a college football power in the SEC as was Tulane. Tampa was big time with Freddie Solomon and the University of Chicago was a founding member of the Big Ten. The Southwest conference was as good as it got, but today most college kids don't even know it existed. When people talk about the loss of such great rivals like Furman, Wofford and Western I ask if they think App should have stayed in the Carolina's Conference and maintained rivalries with Guilford, High Point, Lenoir Rhyne and Carson Newman. IMO the loss of games with ECU, Marshall and Wake have been far more damaging than what will be lost with Furman, Wofford or Western. Its all a matter of perspective.

ASU has moved beyond what a majority of FCS has become. Our good friend Otto is fond of using my statement "That stadium on the ASU campus isn't what the NCAA had in mind when they thought up 1-AA." The same can be said for Montana and JMU. In many ways the NCAA forced schools out of 1-AA/FCS and in in reality FCS left us and not the other way around. It is a moot point to argue but the NCAA set 1-AA up to be less that what it could have been. By having maximum scholarship limits without minimums and no attendance requirements the NCAA basically made 1-AA their catch basin. I've argued, in theory, the only thing a school needs to play FCS football is to be D-I in everything else. They don't need a stadium, don't have to give scholarships and no specific number of coaches. They can basically take a club team, line off a cow pasture, put up a couple of goal posts and play FCS football. Then along comes the Dayton Rule in 1993 and things really got out of whack.

As far as the playoffs are concerned I believe that happen with the G5 schools in the not so distant future. I have been somewhat involved with a fellow App broadcasting grad putting together a new internet TV network. He is extremely well connected and says the P5 playoff will consume a lot of TV revenues that would have gone to the G5 guys - one of the main reasons for putting his network together. The loss of that revenue will force conferences to realign and he fully expects ASU, Charlotte, Ga Southern, Ga State, JMU, Marshall, ODU, MTSU and WKU will soon be in the same league. Some insiders are now saying Banowsky made a crucial mistake not taking App because of their so-called small TV market and not aligning his league membership more closely together. Advertisers are becoming more concerned with having their products represented on well attended games in smaller markets than games played in half empty venues in big markets. It doesn't matter how big the market is if nobody is watching the games.

I know you have a soft spot in your heart for ASU and that's why I take it easy on you! xsmiley_wix But under the current conditions in FCS and the state of NC, moving up was the best and only option App had.

the point that Mr. C was trying to make is that drawing more than 13,000 fans at Boone, NC is a RECENT phenomenon. The Citadel used to outdraw you.

[Mr. C]

I don't like the state of affairs in college football any more than you do and it is sad some of the traditional rivalry games I grew up watching don't play any longer. But if you really look at history you see is the only constant in college athletics is change. At one time Sewanee was a college football power in the SEC as was Tulane. Tampa was big time with Freddie Solomon and the University of Chicago was a founding member of the Big Ten. The Southwest conference was as good as it got, but today most college kids don't even know it existed. When people talk about the loss of such great rivals like Furman, Wofford and Western I ask if they think App should have stayed in the Carolina's Conference and maintained rivalries with Guilford, High Point, Lenoir Rhyne and Carson Newman. IMO the loss of games with ECU, Marshall and Wake have been far more damaging than what will be lost with Furman, Wofford or Western. Its all a matter of perspective.

ASU has moved beyond what a majority of FCS has become. Our good friend Otto is fond of using my statement "That stadium on the ASU campus isn't what the NCAA had in mind when they thought up 1-AA." The same can be said for Montana and JMU. In many ways the NCAA forced schools out of 1-AA/FCS and in in reality FCS left us and not the other way around. It is a moot point to argue but the NCAA set 1-AA up to be less that what it could have been. By having maximum scholarship limits without minimums and no attendance requirements the NCAA basically made 1-AA their catch basin. I've argued, in theory, the only thing a school needs to play FCS football is to be D-I in everything else. They don't need a stadium, don't have to give scholarships and no specific number of coaches. They can basically take a club team, line off a cow pasture, put up a couple of goal posts and play FCS football. Then along comes the Dayton Rule in 1993 and things really got out of whack.

As far as the playoffs are concerned I believe that happen with the G5 schools in the not so distant future. I have been somewhat involved with a fellow App broadcasting grad putting together a new internet TV network. He is extremely well connected and says the P5 playoff will consume a lot of TV revenues that would have gone to the G5 guys - one of the main reasons for putting his network together. The loss of that revenue will force conferences to realign and he fully expects ASU, Charlotte, Ga Southern, Ga State, JMU, Marshall, ODU, MTSU and WKU will soon be in the same league. Some insiders are now saying Banowsky made a crucial mistake not taking App because of their so-called small TV market and not aligning his league membership more closely together. Advertisers are becoming more concerned with having their products represented on well attended games in smaller markets than games played in half empty venues in big markets. It doesn't matter how big the market is if nobody is watching the games.

I know you have a soft spot in your heart for ASU and that's why I take it easy on you! xsmiley_wix But under the current conditions in FCS and the state of NC, moving up was the best and only option App had.
Like I've said many times, talk to me about how it all worked out in 10 years and we will see what everyone thinks about the move then. I know plenty of folks at Marshall that wish the Herd had never moved.

[Saint3333]

There will always be plenty of fans on both sides of the decision. I would assume you would tend to associate with those that would have rather stayed. Birds of a feather.

10 years from now, college football is going to look much different than it does today.

[AppMan]

the point that Mr. C was trying to make is that drawing more than 13,000 fans at Boone, NC is a RECENT phenomenon. The Citadel used to outdraw you.

Actually ASU hasn't draw less than 13,000 since the mid 80's. The only thing I have to say about your statement concerning The Citadel outdrawing App is the phrase "USED to outdraw you." As in no longer does and never will again. xlolx

[AppMan]

Like I've said many times, talk to me about how it all worked out in 10 years and we will see what everyone thinks about the move then. I know plenty of folks at Marshall that wish the Herd had never moved.

I'd be willing to bet that number is a fraction of those who are thrilled with FBS and wouldn't think of going back.

[AppChicago]

Think the move's a good decision? Wait ten years, then talk.
Think it was a mistake? Talk NOW. Frequently and copiously.

Did I get that right?

[citdog]

Actually ASU hasn't draw less than 13,000 since the mid 80's. The only thing I have to say about your statement concerning The Citadel outdrawing App is the phrase "USED to outdraw you." As in no longer does and never will again. xlolx


Really? The mid 80's you say?

Taken from the appy st website.


2000
14
175,574
12,541
26,853
6
78,094
13,016
17,647
8
97,480
12,185
26,853
2001
13
167,628
12,894
29,127
7
84,859
12,123
17,779
6
82,769
13,795
29,127
2002
12
155,643
12,970
31,042
6
75,518
12,586
17,381
6
80,125
13,354
31,042
2003
11
176,892
16,081
42,996
5
73,307
14,661
19,421
6
103,585
17,264
42,996
2004
11
146,446
13,313
22,421

[DoWe]

In Appy's defense on this matter of sustaining their attendance figures is that they have a much nicer place for people to spend a Saturday afternoon than they did back when KBS was a dump. More seats, more restrooms and better concessions = better game day experience, win or lose.

[AppMan]

Really? The mid 80's you say?

Taken from the appy st website.


2000
14
175,574
12,541
26,853
6
78,094
13,016
17,647
8
97,480
12,185
26,853
2001
13
167,628
12,894
29,127
7
84,859
12,123
17,779
6
82,769
13,795
29,127
2002
12
155,643
12,970
31,042
6
75,518
12,586
17,381
6
80,125
13,354
31,042
2003
11
176,892
16,081
42,996
5
73,307
14,661
19,421
6
103,585
17,264
42,996
2004
11
146,446
13,313
22,421


I used regular season numbers and the figures on the website include the playoffs. Those were notoriously low attended games, especially the first weekend of Thanksgiving. The Citadel doesn't have that factored into their numbers since they seldom if ever make the playoffs. My statement was LESS than 13,000 and obviously 13,016 for 2000 (even with 2 abysmal weather days which does tend to happen in Boone in November) is still MORE than 13K. Prior to those two bad weather games the average was 15,740. In the terrible year of 2004 we only drew 13,550, but that is still more than 13,000.

[ASUMountaineer]

Like I've said many times, talk to me about how it all worked out in 10 years and we will see what everyone thinks about the move then. I know plenty of folks at Marshall that wish the Herd had never moved.

That doesn't address any of the points AppMan made, but I suspect that's for a reason.

I'll be glad to discuss this with you 10 years from now, but I suspect both FBS and FCS will look much different then and the argument will be moot.

I'd also point out that those "plenty of folks" at Marshall don't prove anything about Marshall's move being right or wrong.

[ASUMountaineer]

Think the move's a good decision? Wait ten years, then talk.
Think it was a mistake? Talk NOW. Frequently and copiously.

Did I get that right?

You are correct, sir!

[OL FU]

WTF? - App State

I have been saying that for the last 30 yearsxrotatehx

[ASUMountaineer]

Like I've said many times, talk to me about how it all worked out in 10 years and we will see what everyone thinks about the move then. I know plenty of folks at Marshall that wish the Herd had never moved.

BTW, thanks for the neg rep again. You sure showed me! xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

Thanks Saint! xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

Thanks to my fellow Apps! xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

Thanks to Baldy! Mr. C, bringing the Apps and the Stink together one neg rep at a time! xlolx

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

C hit me with a negative rep because he didn't like me saying Jerry Moore put App in the position we are in. Even though he recruited all the character issues Scott is having to correct. The program would have been much better off had Moore been shown the door 5 years ago. Not many places would have allowed him to get by with all he has over the years. On top of everything he continued giving his son the largest raises on the staff after getting busted for drug possession and a couple of DUI's. Even after he knocked up a student manager Jerry was going to let him slide and stay on the staff. Thank goodness Cobb stepped in and put an end to the foolishness. If people only knew what was swept under the table all these years under Moore they might not be so enamored with him. Jerry owes a particular attorney in Boone for saving his hide numerous time by making a lot of issues with players go away. Unfortunately technology changed the game and stuff that was once written on paper forms and easily destroyed is now recorded digitally, instantly accessible and hard to make go away. On another board someone listed the players who have been suspended or kicked off the team for violation of team or NCAA rules and just disappeared from the program since 2007. There were only 24.

[StorminASU]

C hit me with a negative rep because he didn't like me saying Jerry Moore put App in the position we are in. Even though he recruited all the character issues Scott is having to correct. The program would have been much better off had Moore been shown the door 5 years ago. Not many places would have allowed him to get by with all he has over the years. On top of everything he continued giving his son the largest raises on the staff after getting busted for drug possession and a couple of DUI's. Even after he knocked up a student manager Jerry was going to let him slide and stay on the staff. Thank goodness Cobb stepped in and put an end to the foolishness. If people only knew what was swept under the table all these years under Moore they might not be so enamored with him. Jerry owes a particular attorney in Boone for saving his hide numerous time by making a lot of issues with players go away. Unfortunately technology changed the game and stuff that was once written on paper forms and easily destroyed is now recorded digitally, instantly accessible and hard to make go away. On another board someone listed the players who have been suspended or kicked off the team for violation of team or NCAA rules and just disappeared from the program since 2007. There were only 24.

Nailed it. I think Jerry is a good guy, just not the great and powerful Jerry Moore he's proclaimed to be. Scott is making the best of a bad situation and we're going to be fortunate to hold on to him for whatever time he's here I believe. Once he starts getting his players out (players that are recruited for talent and discipline), we'll start seeing a return to what we expect from ASU I believe. I have a suspicion Jerry lost more control of the reigns in the last five years than what people think. Makes me wonder how closely he was watching everything.

[citdog]

WOW! you appy st people are the most ungrateful, backstabbing, gossiping group in the whole country. when Jerry Moore was winning you championships he was GREAT. now you say things like the last two posts. VERY glad to soon be rid of a group that eats their own.




Jerry Moore's fate at the hands of the ungrateful appy st fans.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6luMkhN6YC0/UT-jiCNbmFI/AAAAAAAACMQ/LDIDjpILuis/s1600/ides_of_march+02.jpg

[Saint3333]

While I don't agree with airing dirty landry in a public forum, there has always been a contigent at App (as with any fan based) that never approved of Jerry Moore's coaching. It was a very small, but vocal percentage I'd say.

For the record App gave Jerry his second and third chance at coaching. 1989 he was hired after a subpar performance at prior schools. In 2000-2004 he won 10 then 9 then 8 then 7 then 6 games. Charlie Cobb was hired after the 2004 season and received a lot of heat to remove Jerry at that time, he didn't and gave Coach another chance. This lit a fire under Jerry and staff (including Satt) and we all know what happened. Offseason between 2011 and 2012 off the field issues did occur, the severity of which is known by few, I'm not going to say what my version is as I don't know it to be a fact. Two members of the staff were not retained at that time and Cobb and Jerry agreedto one more year.

Coach preaches a good message and was (and I hope continues to be) a great asset for the football program and entire university.

[ASUMountaineer]

C hit me with a negative rep because he didn't like me saying Jerry Moore put App in the position we are in. Even though he recruited all the character issues Scott is having to correct. The program would have been much better off had Moore been shown the door 5 years ago. Not many places would have allowed him to get by with all he has over the years. On top of everything he continued giving his son the largest raises on the staff after getting busted for drug possession and a couple of DUI's. Even after he knocked up a student manager Jerry was going to let him slide and stay on the staff. Thank goodness Cobb stepped in and put an end to the foolishness. If people only knew what was swept under the table all these years under Moore they might not be so enamored with him. Jerry owes a particular attorney in Boone for saving his hide numerous time by making a lot of issues with players go away. Unfortunately technology changed the game and stuff that was once written on paper forms and easily destroyed is now recorded digitally, instantly accessible and hard to make go away. On another board someone listed the players who have been suspended or kicked off the team for violation of team or NCAA rules and just disappeared from the program since 2007. There were only 24.

That's Mr. C's MO. He hits you with a neg rep simply because you disagree with him, then won't post in the thread when you call him out. He's a clown at times.

[ASUMountaineer]

I always have been and still am a big Moore fan. He made mistakes like every human does, but his good far outweighs any bad he did. I was disappointed with the way both sides handled his departure. It's time to look forward, praise JM for what he did, and embrace the changes happening. Go APPS!

[CID1990]

Actually ASU hasn't draw less than 13,000 since the mid 80's. The only thing I have to say about your statement concerning The Citadel outdrawing App is the phrase "USED to outdraw you." As in no longer does and never will again. xlolx

That's a bold statement considering how quickly ASU fans head for the exits when they are losing. I never saw som many fair weather fans outside of Chapel Hill. We keep 14K in the stands even when we are only winning 2 games a year.

Drop a few to Troy and LA Lafayette and watch what happens.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

C hit me with a negative rep because he didn't like me saying Jerry Moore put App in the position we are in. Even though he recruited all the character issues Scott is having to correct. The program would have been much better off had Moore been shown the door 5 years ago. Not many places would have allowed him to get by with all he has over the years. On top of everything he continued giving his son the largest raises on the staff after getting busted for drug possession and a couple of DUI's. Even after he knocked up a student manager Jerry was going to let him slide and stay on the staff. Thank goodness Cobb stepped in and put an end to the foolishness. If people only knew what was swept under the table all these years under Moore they might not be so enamored with him. Jerry owes a particular attorney in Boone for saving his hide numerous time by making a lot of issues with players go away. Unfortunately technology changed the game and stuff that was once written on paper forms and easily destroyed is now recorded digitally, instantly accessible and hard to make go away. On another board someone listed the players who have been suspended or kicked off the team for violation of team or NCAA rules and just disappeared from the program since 2007. There were only 24.

And what about these APR scores we keep hearing about? Jerry have anything to do with that or are they because you have a lot of players majoring in dodgeball? Not trying to be a smart-***, just wondering what your take on that is. I have a hard time believing there's an epidemic of hooliganism if the quality students you are recruiting is what they seem to be.

As far as Chris Moore goes, if what App. fans say is true and Jerry let his son get fired without trying to step in the way or getting a chip on his shoulder over it then I think that deserves some respect. He certainly handled it better than Mike Sewak did in firing Erk Russell's son.

[Twentysix]

That's a bold statement considering how quickly ASU fans head for the exits when they are losing. I never saw som many fair weather fans outside of Chapel Hill. We keep 14K in the stands even when we are only winning 2 games a year.

Drop a few to Troy and LA Lafayette and watch what happens.

They have drawn less than 13k in the playoffs. He is lieing anyway.

[SoCon2013]

What happened?
It's not over yet. We've been 0-2 before them won 11 straight.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

WOW! you appy st people are the most ungrateful, backstabbing, gossiping group in the whole country. when Jerry Moore was winning you championships he was GREAT. now you say things like the last two posts. VERY glad to soon be rid of a group that eats their own.




Jerry Moore's fate at the hands of the ungrateful appy st fans.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6luMkhN6YC0/UT-jiCNbmFI/AAAAAAAACMQ/LDIDjpILuis/s1600/ides_of_march+02.jpg

SOME ASU fans treated Jerry as though he could do no wrong. Those people only knew the public persona and had no access to the inner workings of the program. Coach Moore is a fine man and I'm sure everything he did was with the best of intentions, but he is not the infallible saint many make him out to be. In his later years Jerry put the professional welfare of his son over the program and it played a big role in losing his job. Some -especially you citdog - look for any opportunity to degrade App and are making far more hay of out of this than it deserves. I seriously doubt you give a whoop about Jerry Moore. This is just a chance for you to stick it to da man! Coach Moore did many great things for Appalachian, but Appalachian did just as much for him. What people tend to forget is this has been a 2 way street and Coach Moore is the one who made his departure from the program something it wasn't. The things he said in the press simply were not true and need to be addressed.

[citdog]

SOME ASU fans treated Jerry as though he could do no wrong. Those people only knew the public persona and had no access to the inner workings of the program. Coach Moore is a fine man and I'm sure everything he did was with the best of intentions, but he is not the infallible saint many make him out to be. In his later years Jerry put the professional welfare of his son over the program and it played a big role in losing his job. Some -especially you citdog - look for any opportunity to degrade App and are making far more hay of out of this than it deserves. I seriously doubt you give a whoop about Jerry Moore. This is just a chance for you to stick it to da man! Coach Moore did many great things for Appalachian, but Appalachian did just as much for him. What people tend to forget is this has been a 2 way street and Coach Moore is the one who made his departure from the program something it wasn't. The things he said in the press simply were not true and need to be addressed.


I have a TREMENDOUS amount of respect for Jerry Moore. He is the best thing to EVER happen to appy st football. You seem to have some personal axe to grind and personally I think it's quite unbecoming to air this ALLEGED dirty laundry here. I have a HEALTHY respect for appy st and even witnessed in person your victory over the blue hens in chattanooga. Y'all stabbed the man in the back and basically it was a coup with scott satterfield waiting in the wings.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwGDXp24uWo

[SoCon2013]

C hit me with a negative rep because he didn't like me saying Jerry Moore put App in the position we are in. Even though he recruited all the character issues Scott is having to correct. The program would have been much better off had Moore been shown the door 5 years ago. Not many places would have allowed him to get by with all he has over the years. On top of everything he continued giving his son the largest raises on the staff after getting busted for drug possession and a couple of DUI's. Even after he knocked up a student manager Jerry was going to let him slide and stay on the staff. Thank goodness Cobb stepped in and put an end to the foolishness. If people only knew what was swept under the table all these years under Moore they might not be so enamored with him. Jerry owes a particular attorney in Boone for saving his hide numerous time by making a lot of issues with players go away. Unfortunately technology changed the game and stuff that was once written on paper forms and easily destroyed is now recorded digitally, instantly accessible and hard to make go away. On another board someone listed the players who have been suspended or kicked off the team for violation of team or NCAA rules and just disappeared from the program since 2007. There were only 24.

You gotta be Robert Norton.

[Saint3333]

Scott had nothing to do with the decision to give Jerry one more year. In fact it is just the opposite.

[ASUMountaineer]

That's a bold statement considering how quickly ASU fans head for the exits when they are losing. I never saw som many fair weather fans outside of Chapel Hill. We keep 14K in the stands even when we are only winning 2 games a year.

Drop a few to Troy and LA Lafayette and watch what happens.

Thanks for the heads-up Nostradamus!

[ASUMountaineer]

I have a TREMENDOUS amount of respect for Jerry Moore. He is the best thing to EVER happen to appy st football. You seem to have some personal axe to grind and personally I think it's quite unbecoming to air this ALLEGED dirty laundry here. I have a HEALTHY respect for appy st and even witnessed in person your victory over the blue hens in chattanooga. Y'all stabbed the man in the back and basically it was a coup with scott satterfield waiting in the wings.

Does not compute...

Citdog, you're a hilarious poster, but this kind of crap is just that...crap. Get over it. xsmhx

And, let me help you: TOUCHDOWN CITADEL!

[citdog]

Does not compute...

Citdog, you're a hilarious poster, but this kind of crap is just that...crap. Get over it. xsmhx

And, let me help you: TOUCHDOWN CITADEL!


We don't rub it in to people we don't respect. Does anybody smack with Elon?

[ASUMountaineer]

We don't rub it in to people we don't respect. Does anybody smack with Elon?

I know you care, and it is flattering. I'm just trying to help you out...you're better than that! I know Appaholic brought out the best in you, but you can still strive to be better!

[citdog]

I know you care, and it is flattering. I'm just trying to help you out...you're better than that! I know Appaholic brought out the best in you, but you can still strive to be better!


Yosef and I spoon on a fortnightly basis.

[CID1990]

That doesn't address any of the points AppMan made, but I suspect that's for a reason.

I'll be glad to discuss this with you 10 years from now, but I suspect both FBS and FCS will look much different then and the argument will be moot.

I'd also point out that those "plenty of folks" at Marshall don't prove anything about Marshall's move being right or wrong.

Marshall was much more significant as a I-AA team, if you ask me. Whether the move was right or wrong for them I guess is dependent on who you ask.

One thing is for sure- the only reason anyone even knows the school even exists is more because of a plane crash than anything they have done in FBS. At least in I-AA they won a natty or two.

[ASUMountaineer]

Yosef and I spoon on a fortnightly basis.

xlolxxthumbsupx

[ASUMountaineer]

Marshall was much more significant as a I-AA team, if you ask me. Whether the move was right or wrong for them I guess is dependent on who you ask.

One thing is for sure- the only reason anyone even knows the school even exists is more because of a plane crash than anything they have done in FBS. At least in I-AA they won a natty or two.

Cool...I guess. Thanks for reiterating my point, which was that Mr. C's "folks" don't prove whether the move was wrong or right for Marshall. xthumbsupx

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

I have a TREMENDOUS amount of respect for Jerry Moore. He is the best thing to EVER happen to appy st football. You seem to have some personal axe to grind and personally I think it's quite unbecoming to air this ALLEGED dirty laundry here. I have a HEALTHY respect for appy st and even witnessed in person your victory over the blue hens in chattanooga. Y'all stabbed the man in the back and basically it was a coup with scott satterfield waiting in the wings.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwGDXp24uWo

Didn't yo mama tell you it's better to keep that big ole trap shut and let people think you're an idiot than to speak and prove them right? Cit Dog let me clue you in on something ... You ain't got a clue about what you're talking about. I don't profess to know the ins and outs of Citadel athletics and I'm amazed you seem to think you have insider knowledge on what transpired at App with Jerry Moore.

[citdog]

Didn't yo mama tell you it's better to keep that big ole trap shut and let people think you're an idiot than to speak and prove them right? Cit Dog let me clue you in on something ... You ain't got a clue about what you're talking about. I don't profess to know the ins and outs of Citadel athletics and I'm amazed you seem to think you have insider knowledge on what transpired at App with Jerry Moore.

My Mother is a furple and is a fine woman forgiving her that youthful indiscretion of enrolling at that wretched institution. I know what people close to the situation have told me and it don't jive with your "Jerry Moore is the DEBIL" bull****.

[Apphole]

My Mother is a furple and is a fine woman forgiving her that youthful indiscretion of enrolling at that wretched institution. I know what people close to the situation have told me and it don't jive with your "Jerry Moore is the DEBIL" bull****.

Spawn of Furman + Faux military school education = App State insider. Got it.