Twins President Chyme's in on NDSU & UND Rivalry

[Gil Dobie]

Nice to see a UND alum admit it was UND that would not accept the NDSU scheduling offer in 2003. Even though he puts the current blame on NDSU.


http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/272402/

Dave St. Peter: Renew the UND-NDSU football rivalry


As a UND alum and avid follower of all UND athletics, I’ve never been easily impressed by anything NDSU-related. But as a native of the great state of North Dakota, I couldn’t be more proud of what the NDSU football program has accomplished.
Congratulations to Coach Craig Bohl, the balance of the coaching and training staff and all of the players on their well-deserved victory. Best of luck throughout the 2013 football season.
...............
How did we get here? History shows UND abandoned NDSU at a time when the Bison needed UND as an opponent while transitioning to Division I athletics. That was short-sighted and unfortunate, but doesn’t justify NDSU’s “turnabout is fair play” approach in refusing to play UND now.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I agree that they should play but this article is stupid.

[NDSUstudent]

Nice to see a UND alum admit it was UND that would not accept the NDSU scheduling offer in 2003. Even though he puts the current blame on NDSU.


http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/272402/

Dave St. Peter: Renew the UND-NDSU football rivalry

I agree, stupid article. Maybe he should concentrate more on his losing franchise.

[IBleedYellow]

Nope.

We don't need UND as much as UND needs NDSU now.

You made your bed, lay in it.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Nope.

We don't need UND as much as UND needs NDSU now.

You made your bed, lay in it.

I'm often wondering if I'm the only native North Dakotan here. I think it would be good for the state to get it going again. Rising tide lifts all ships.

Forget economics, wouldn't this game be better than Ferris State?

[Professor Chaos]

I think the rivalry should resume with a single home and home agreement and just get it over with. Then the whiners can stop their bellyaching about Gene Taylor holding grudges, etc. Play each other once at both home fields, not necessarily in consecutive years, and move on. This should absolutely not be an every year series.

[IBleedYellow]

I'm often wondering if I'm the only native North Dakotan here. I think it would be good for the state to get it going again. Rising tide lifts all ships.

Forget economics, wouldn't this game be better than Ferris State?

Fargo born, Fargo raised.

We don't need them dude. We still sell out the Fargodome without them.

UND wouldn't even bring anymore people to Fargo since we ALREADY SELL OUT THE DOME. If anything there will be more vandalism and more **** going on that the PD have to mess with. How is that better for the economy.

This would only benefit UND since they will actually sell out the Alerus Center.


Also: No, this wouldn't be a better game that Ferris State. UND sucks balls right now, our defense would throttle them. The SDSU game on Saturday will prove this.

[Professor Chaos]

I'm often wondering if I'm the only native North Dakotan here. I think it would be good for the state to get it going again. Rising tide lifts all ships.

Forget economics, wouldn't this game be better than Ferris State?
If UND agrees to come to Fargo for a guarantee game without a return trip, absolutely.

If they want commitments from NDSU for multiple trips to Grand Forks or to resume an every year series than I'd say no way.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Fargo born, Fargo raised.

We don't need them dude. We still sell out the Fargodome without them.

UND wouldn't even bring anymore people to Fargo since we ALREADY SELL OUT THE DOME. If anything there will be more vandalism and more **** going on that the PD have to mess with. How is that better for the economy.

This would only benefit UND since they will actually sell out the Alerus Center.


Also: No, this wouldn't be a better game that Ferris State. UND sucks balls right now, our defense would throttle them.

Also Fargo born and raised but it just seems to me that ignoring the team 70 miles north out of spite when you have to pay a D2 team 180,000 to come play is silly.

[IBleedYellow]

Also Fargo born and raised but it just seems to me that ignoring the team 70 miles north out of spite when you have to pay a D2 team 180,000 to come play is silly.

Here is the key: Will they agree to the terms of coming down to the dome, without a return game? We have no reason to go up there every other year.

[SUPharmacist]

The next game should wait until a playoff meeting, then both teams will prove they belong. NDSU has every right to hold out.

Also, did you guys catch the photo from a "recent" Twins game. It was from the metrodome.

[IBleedYellow]

The next game should wait until a playoff meeting, then both teams will prove they belong. NDSU has every right to hold out.

Also, did you guys catch the photo from a "recent" Twins game. It was from the metrodome.


This, prove they can play at this level, then we'll talk. Until then, keep talking until your program backs up the talk.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I find ironic how we used to bristle at being "big timed" but now we just do it ourselves.

[Gil Dobie]

The next game should wait until a playoff meeting, then both teams will prove they belong. NDSU has every right to hold out.

Also, did you guys catch the photo from a "recent" Twins game. It was from the metrodome.

I would like to see the next game be a playoff game too.

[IBleedYellow]

I find ironic how we used to bristle at being "big timed" but now we just do it ourselves.

Yeah, I totally realized that I said that once I posted it.

At least I haven't posted complaining about the FBS schools doing that to us.

[NDSUstudent]

I find ironic how we used to bristle at being "big timed" but now we just do it ourselves.

I graduated from NDSU and have never been to a UND vs. NDSU football game. I would rather see NDSU play UND vs. Ferris, but what if it came down to playing UND vs. Kansas State? I would not want to get rid of playing the big boys. The road trips and potential to knock off a giant is far better than a game with UND.

Correct me if I am wrong but the standard of scheduling for Gene Taylor and Coach Bohl have been: 1 beatable FBS team, and two OOC home games.
UND is not willing to come to the Fargodome every year. We will either be giving up a home game or giving up playing a beatable FBS team. I don't want to give up 6 home games and I don't want to give up playing FBS teams.

For those who want the game, what are you willing to give up? The extra revenue from an FBS game including national recognition? Or revenue from a home game when we would be travelling to Grand Forks? Maybe both? How much does NDSU actually gain from playing UND? People keep saying it is better for the state of North Dakota. I disagree; I think it is better for the state of North Dakota when NDSU beats Minnesota/Colorado State/Kansas State. But that is my opinion.

[IBleedYellow]

Here is another way to look at this:

UND is floundering, NDSU is currently flourishing. What can UND fans do to actually sell out their home games? They have a great home schedule this year, yet, if you want to buy tickets on the 50 yard line, you can. How does UND fix this problem? Play NDSU, let us fill the Alerus up for them. UND isn't exactly doing well, no matter what people say, outside looking in, we can see they aren't doing amazing. If the roles were reversed, would UND help NDSU out?

I can answer that with a reverberating HELL NO!

[aces1180]

NDSU should only play them if the games are played in Fargo, paying UN_ $100,000 and bus fare per game. IMO, they are just another OOC game and should be treated as such.

I grew up in ND watching this rivalry and loved every minute of it. However, there is a not reason NDSU should ever give up a home game, which we all know will sell-out, or a FBS game, to play a game in GF.

[No_Skill]

I'm often wondering if I'm the only native North Dakotan here. I think it would be good for the state to get it going again. Rising tide lifts all ships.

Forget economics, wouldn't this game be better than Ferris State?

I have lived in ND my entire life and I have no interest in a recurring regular season game with und.

[aces1180]

I'm often wondering if I'm the only native North Dakotan here. I think it would be good for the state to get it going again. Rising tide lifts all ships.

Forget economics, wouldn't this game be better than Ferris State?

Yes, but NDSU doesn't travel to Ferris State or any of the other OOC teams we have played over the years. The only team we are currently doing a home/home with is Montana. If UN_ would agree to take the money in a guarantee game, I'd be all for playing them. However, if they insist on playing a game in GF, I agree that no deal should be made.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

NDSU should only play them if the games are played in Fargo, paying UN_ $100,000 and bus fare per game. IMO, they are just another OOC game and should be treated as such.

I grew up in ND watching this rivalry and loved every minute of it. However, there is not reason NDSU should ever give up a home game, which we all know will sell-out, to play a game in GF.

That streak is going to end soon. NDSU is going to have to H&H some times. Everybody does.

[Herder]

Also Fargo born and raised but it just seems to me that ignoring the team 70 miles north out of spite when you have to pay a D2 team 180,000 to come play is silly. Umm . . . do you think UND's coming for a smaller guarantee? I don't think so. The Bueler guarantee is probably smaller than would UND would require.

Faison screwed up big time when he didn't agree to an every other year contract, and when he decided that talking to every media member he could find was a good idea. He could have signed that contract to get things started and acted in a positive manner toward NDSU, but he didn't, therefore we still have not played a game. Faison fails to understand that the details for the 1st game will be dicatated to him, if indeed he wants to play the game.

[Laker]

This was the BIGGEST rivalry in D2 sports- and not just in football. It didn't matter the sport, there was good old fashioned hate. I watched enough of the UND-NDSU women's basketball clashes to know that gender was no barrier.

As an old NCCer, I miss the two teams playing each other. I could hear the distain between the Coyote and Jackrabbit fans last Sat. when I was at both games (there were even some Bison fans in full garb there- getting their picture taken next to the Jackrabbit who covered his eyes).

[NoDak 4 Ever]

This was the BIGGEST rivalry in D2 sports- and not just in football. It didn't matter the sport, there was good old fashioned hate. I watched enough of the UND-NDSU women's basketball clashes to know that gender was no barrier.

As an old NCCer, I miss the two teams playing each other. I could hear the distain between the Coyote and Jackrabbit fans last Sat. when I was at both games (there were even some Bison fans in full garb there- getting their picture taken next to the Jackrabbit who covered his eyes).

This.

USD and SDSU managed to get over it. If you really want to stick it to Roger Thomas, don't schedule Mary.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

apropos of nothing but chyme is an actual thing.

Chyme (from Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language) "χυμός" - khymos, "juice"[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chyme#cite_note-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chyme#cite_note-2)) is the semifluid mass of partly digested food expelled by the stomach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stomach) into the duodenum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duodenum).

[tjamz]

I'm often wondering if I'm the only native North Dakotan here. I think it would be good for the state to get it going again. Rising tide lifts all ships.

Forget economics, wouldn't this game be better than Ferris State?

Lifelong North Dakotan here. The only group who benefits is UN_. A better game was Montana state but.... well, they couldn't honor their agreement so I'll take Ferris state as at least they have the balls to play in Fargo (and look they are d2 just like UN_ was when they refused to play us anymore)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[aces1180]

That streak is going to end soon. NDSU is going to have to H&H some times. Everybody does.

The streak ends in 2015 when we go to Montana. Montana doesn't need help filling the stands, UN_ does. They should take the offer for some guarantee games in Fargo or leave it. The majority of Bison fans feel this way as well. I'm not saying your opinion doesn't matter, but you are definitely in the minority.

[McNeese75]

If UND agrees to come to Fargo for a guarantee game without a return trip, absolutely.

If they want commitments from NDSU for multiple trips to Grand Forks or to resume an every year series than I'd say no way.

Looks to me like somebody is chicken $%#$ to make a commitment. That game should be every year and it should be a no brainer for scheduling.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The streak ends in 2015 when we go to Montana. Montana doesn't need help filling the stands, UN_ does. They should take the offer for some guarantee games in Fargo or leave it. The majority of Bison fans feel this way as well. I'm not saying your opinion doesn't matter, but you are definitely in the minority.

That's a pretty sweeping statement. I wouldn't make one like that.

I may be in the minority but it's the right thing to do.

[IBleedYellow]

The streak ends in 2015 when we go to Montana. Montana doesn't need help filling the stands, UN_ does. They should take the offer for some guarantee games in Fargo or leave it. The majority of Bison fans feel this way as well. I'm not saying your opinion doesn't matter, but you are definitely in the minority.

NoDak 4 Ever, I don't know if you're a heavy Teammaker with money, but the ones with the money from everything I've heard have let Gene Taylor know that they don't want to play _ND ever again unless the NCAA makes us with a playoff game.

Money talks.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

NoDak 4 Ever, I don't know if you're a heavy Teammaker with money, but the ones with the money from everything I've heard have let Gene Taylor know that they don't want to play _ND ever again unless the NCAA makes us with a playoff game.

Money talks.

Then we've become just like every other dickhead big time program who is too something to remember from where we came.

Pity.

[aces1180]

That's a pretty sweeping statement. I wouldn't make one like that.

I may be in the minority but it's the right thing to do.

I disagree...If they want to play in the dome for a guarantee, fine. As far as a home and home goes, no deal.

GT has done a great job at NDSU, and I trust him to do what is right for the Bison.

[SUPharmacist]

Lifelong North Dakotan here. The only group who benefits is UN_. A better game was Montana state but.... well, they couldn't honor their agreement so I'll take Ferris state as at least they have the balls to play in Fargo (and look they are d2 just like UN_ was when they refused to play us anymore)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Montana State paid the buyout, I don't like it, especially the timing, but it was an option in the contract. They do not owe NDSU anything. UND on the other hand chose to end the rivalry, and take every pot shot they could through the press. If they want to start it again, they will have to make a good faith gesture and agree to come to Fargo with no return game. A game on those terms would do a lot to make NDSU look seriously at renewing the rivalry with a H & H down the line.

The best thing would be for officials at both schools to stop talking to the media about the potential for matchups at all. Maybe, if both sides kept their mouth shut, they could work out a deal in private. The more this is discussed the more both sides will harden their position and try to blame the other side.

All that said I still would prefer if the next meeting came in the playoffs. NDSU proved they can survive without UND, and despite being late to the party UND will survive just fine without NDSU.

[344Johnson]

Then we've become just like every other dickhead big time program who is too something to remember from where we came.

Pity.

When an old girlfriend dumps you, and awhile down the road after you have went on to big success and she is not doing as well as she anticipated, tries to get you back....what do you do?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

When an old girlfriend dumps you, and awhile down the road after you have went on to big success and she is not doing as well as she anticipated, tries to get you back....what do you do?

This isn't an old girlfriend, this is another institution in your already small state. A state that few people care about no matter how many big successes we have.

[SactoHornetFan]

Jesus, you NDSU people need to get over yourselves. We still played ucd every year home AND away when they stayed in D2 when we had moved up to I-AA in 1993. Get over yourselves. Its about the rivalry and the students. Period.

[SUPharmacist]

When an old girlfriend dumps you, and awhile down the road after you have went on to big success and she is not doing as well as she anticipated, tries to get you back....what do you do?

One random hook-up then never return her calls. That does sound like what we should do to UND.

[Professor Chaos]

Looks to me like somebody is chicken $%#$ to make a commitment. That game should be every year and it should be a no brainer for scheduling.
You have no knowledge of what you speak. That makes no sense from a business/financial perspective for NDSU football.

I'm looking at this as a realist. Would I like to see a game with UND every year? Sure. The problem is to do that you're taking away a home game or a FBS game from NDSU every other year which is a bad thing for me as a fan and not something I'm willing to give up to get UND on the schedule every year. It's pretty easy to understand.

[dewey]

I graduated from NDSU and have never been to a UND vs. NDSU football game. I would rather see NDSU play UND vs. Ferris, but what if it came down to playing UND vs. Kansas State? I would not want to get rid of playing the big boys. The road trips and potential to knock off a giant is far better than a game with UND.

Correct me if I am wrong but the standard of scheduling for Gene Taylor and Coach Bohl have been: 1 beatable FBS team, and two OOC home games.
UND is not willing to come to the Fargodome every year. We will either be giving up a home game or giving up playing a beatable FBS team. I don't want to give up 6 home games and I don't want to give up playing FBS teams.

For those who want the game, what are you willing to give up? The extra revenue from an FBS game including national recognition? Or revenue from a home game when we would be travelling to Grand Forks? Maybe both? How much does NDSU actually gain from playing UND? People keep saying it is better for the state of North Dakota. I disagree; I think it is better for the state of North Dakota when NDSU beats Minnesota/Colorado State/Kansas State. But that is my opinion.

That was beautiful!!!

Hats off to you sir!

Go Bison!

Dewey

[SUPharmacist]

Jesus, you NDSU people need to get over yourselves. We still played ucd every year home AND away when they stayed in D2 when we had moved up to I-AA in 1993. Get over yourselves. Its about the rivalry and the students. Period.

I was one of those students when NDSU moved up. At that point NDSU wanted the game, UND said no, wanted us to die in transition.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Jesus, you NDSU people need to get over yourselves. We still played ucd every year home AND away when they stayed in D2 when we had moved up to I-AA in 1993. Get over yourselves. Its about the rivalry and the students. Period.

Havent' you heard? We're the GOAT. We can just play ourselves in the Fargodome and sell that **** out all the time. 16 games a season. We can also just make ourselves a giant golden bison trophy and award it to ourselves every year. We don't even need the rest of you guys. We ARE the FCS!

[SUPharmacist]

This isn't an old girlfriend, this is another institution in your already small state. A state that few people care about no matter how many big successes we have.

Will people care more when we play another program from our state. It makes no difference from that perspective, you act like NDSU-UND was this great collaboration for the people.

[dewey]

I disagree...If they want to play in the dome for a guarantee, fine. As far as a home and home goes, no deal.

GT has done a great job at NDSU, and I trust him to do what is right for the Bison.

I agree with aces. If UN_ wants to come to NDSU for a single game contract great if not we will fill the house with anyone.

Go Bison!

Dewey

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Will people care more when we play another program from our state. It makes no difference from that perspective, you act like NDSU-UND was this great collaboration for the people.

It was. It used to be the only televised program all year. Everybody in the state watched it. They would have watch parties all over the country.

[dewey]

I was one of those students when NDSU moved up. At that point NDSU wanted the game, UND said no, wanted us to die in transition.

I was a student during teh early parts of the transition as well and I remember that as well.

Go Bison!

Dewey

[Professor Chaos]

It was. It used to be the only televised program all year. Everybody in the state watched it. They would have watch parties all over the country.
"Was" is the key word. That's how things used to be.

Now every NDSU game is televised statewide and people all over the country have watch parties for many games throughout the year.

[RabidRabbit]

UND needs to get off their high horse and go to the Summit League (especially with their ex-NCC BSC mate), and make the case how having the two schools will significantly improve the Summit. (Which it would). With both schools making the pitch, the Summit goes to the MVFC, and says let's have a Summit MVFC conference and use the Summit/non-Summit to split into two.

Helps Summit League, adding two baseball teams, adds swim teams. Creates natural travel partners (UNC/Denver, UND/NDSU, SDSU/USD, Omaha/WIU, IUPUI/IPFW), and renews lots of long term rivalries. This league would have some of the best attended BB games around, and you even have a core group for a Hockey league (Denver, Omaha, UND). IMHO, there are few downsides to this.

[SUPharmacist]

It was. It used to be the only televised program all year. Everybody in the state watched it. They would have watch parties all over the country.

Yes, North Dakotans cared. Your previous statement was about people across the country not caring about our small time state. It was a good rivalry people who aren't from ND and aren't alum still don't care. So it was the only televised game, that is no longer the case. Regardless of my feelings eventually the rivalry will restart, they will be enjoyable games, but why now. Enjoy our current successes. Your sarcastic post about us being the GOAT is right that we will have down years, and we likely cannot continue to just sell out the dome regardless of quality of the product (my hope is that we can build a tradition where we can, that remains to be seen). I will remember the history of the rivalry, but I remember UND ending it just give it time and the programs will come to terms.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

UND needs to get off their high horse and go to the Summit League (especially with their ex-NCC BSC mate), and make the case how having the two schools will significantly improve the Summit. (Which it would). With both schools making the pitch, the Summit goes to the MVFC, and says let's have a Summit MVFC conference and use the Summit/non-Summit to split into two.

Helps Summit League, adding two baseball teams, adds swim teams. Creates natural travel partners (UNC/Denver, UND/NDSU, SDSU/USD, Omaha/WIU, IUPUI/IPFW), and renews lots of long term rivalries. This league would have some of the best attended BB games around, and you even have a core group for a Hockey league (Denver, Omaha, UND). IMHO, there are few downsides to this.

Look. I know that UND is the really stupid one here. They love the BSC way more than they should. Sticking with the Dakotas would have been the much smarter thing to do. Whether they had the invite or not, they would have gotten into both the Summit and MVFC and provided a great travel partnership and solid base for both.

[Bisonator]

I'm torn about it. I remember some of those games and the ***** storm they brought for weeks. It was getting out of hand IMO. I think it may be different now but I doubt it would take long to get to that point again. I also can't seem to forget the ***** UND pulled when we made the move. I mean that was pretty effing low IMO.

If GT thinks it's a good idea I would support it, however I don't see it happening every year and it would probably have to start out as a single game or a 2 for 1 at NDSU first. Not much for NDSU to gain out of it right now. And the state is actually going to lose revenue if we both lose a home OOC game with other teams.

[Bisonator]

Jesus, you NDSU people need to get over yourselves. We still played ucd every year home AND away when they stayed in D2 when we had moved up to I-AA in 1993. Get over yourselves. Its about the rivalry and the students. Period.

Is that you Terry? Still sticking up for UND huh? xlolx

[Bisonator]

It was. It used to be the only televised program all year. Everybody in the state watched it. They would have watch parties all over the country.

Now we have that every game. So what is there to gain???xrolleyesx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Now we have that every game. So what is there to gain???xrolleyesx

A rivalry worth giving a **** about. But then again, since we have no equal, we have no rival I guess.

[MplsBison]

It's a simple question, which of the follow scenarios nets NDSU athletic dept more money?

A) pay a team like Ferris state/Delaware St $200k-$300k to come to Fargo each year.

B) UND comes to Fargo for free one year and NDSU goes to Grand Forks for free the next year


Two year net from scenario A: [profit generated by a sold out Fargodome] x2 - [$200k to $300k] x2

Two year net from scenario B: [profit generated by a sold out Fargodome, for UND@NDSU] - [profit lost by not having a sold out game at the Fargodome, for NDSU@UND]


So there you have it. So long as scenario B nets NDSU more money than scenario A, that's the choice you make. For example, if NDSU is earning $500k profit on every sold out Fargodome game then the choice is easy to stick with scenario A. You'd have $1M profit minus even $600k in payments gets you an extra $400k for the athletic dept.


Then you have some other factors: 1) NDSU should never have less than 6 home games, no matter what - the fans want and deserve those opportunities to tailgate an see the team play at home, 2) the above assumes that every home game NDSU plays from now on is going to be sold out. Might be a fair assumption, but not etched in stone.

[IBleedYellow]

It's a simple question, which of the follow scenarios nets NDSU athletic dept more money?

A) pay a team like Ferris state/Delaware St $200k-$300k to come to Fargo each year.

B) UND comes to Fargo for free one year and NDSU goes to Grand Forks for free the next year


Two year net from scenario A: [profit generated by a sold out Fargodome] x2 - [$200k to $300k] x2

Two year net from scenario B: [profit generated by a sold out Fargodome, for UND@NDSU] - [profit lost by not having a sold out game at the Fargodome, for NDSU@UND]


So there you have it. So long as scenario B nets NDSU more money than scenario A, that's the choice you make.


I...ii can't believe it. Mpls contributed to the conversation more than NoDak 4 Ever did, and it made more sense.

Sept 5th, 2013. Hell froze over. at 12:53 PM.


A rivalry worth giving a **** about. But then again, since we have no equal, we have no rival I guess.

Why give two ****s about someone that treats you like ****? They dropped us off hoping we'd die. That didn't happen so they come crawling back hoping we'll pick them up. They can drown in their own crap.

[bisonboone11]

Jesus, you NDSU people need to get over yourselves. We still played ucd every year home AND away when they stayed in D2 when we had moved up to I-AA in 1993. Get over yourselves. Its about the rivalry and the students. Period.
It was UND that decided to end the rivalry when NDSU moved up. NDSU wanted to keep playing the game 10 years ago. Don't you think your rivalry would be a little different if UCD had refused to play you when you were moving up to I-AA? I understand that UND had their reasons for not continuing the rivalry at that time, but wasn't it even more "about the rivalry and students" at that time than it is now? At this point, VERY few of the students at either school were even teenagers the last time a football game was played between NDSU and UND.

[dmksioux]

Six pages in this thread and not one response from a UND fan yet...crazy. We've heard all of the excuses as to why NDSU should not play UND, and they are just that...excuses. Everyone has been refuted...even the monetary one. I realize MSU bought out their game this year, making NDSU have to fork out $180,000 for a DII game but UND would come at no expense at all. The argument about losing home game revenue doesn't hold water either. All NDSU has to do to make that up is realize that "premier game ticket pricing" does work. I would be willing to bet that there would be 19,000 plus North Dakotans will to spend up to twice as much to attend an NDSU vs UND game. The only excuse that really matters is the possibility that NDSU might actually lose to UND (which history tells us they would eventually do). There are no other legitimate excuses not to play the other than that. Ok Bison fans....rip away! xpeacex

[DSUrocks07]

Six pages in this thread and not one response from a UND fan yet...crazy.

I was seconds away from saying the same thing.

[Bisonator]

A rivalry worth giving a **** about. But then again, since we have no equal, we have no rival I guess.

UND obviously didn't give 2 ****'s about the rivalry 10 years ago!

I'm of the opinion NDSU is better off playing 3 home OOC or 2 with an FBS every year.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I...ii can't believe it. Mpls contributed to the conversation more than NoDak 4 Ever did, and it made more sense.

Sept 5th, 2013. Hell froze over. at 12:53 PM.



Why give two ****s about someone that treats you like ****? They dropped us off hoping we'd die. That didn't happen so they come crawling back hoping we'll pick them up. They can drown in their own crap.


I'm almost sure if this was about money, you wouldn't be fighting nearly this much about it.

[MplsBison]

UND needs to get off their high horse and go to the Summit League (especially with their ex-NCC BSC mate), and make the case how having the two schools will significantly improve the Summit. (Which it would). With both schools making the pitch, the Summit goes to the MVFC, and says let's have a Summit MVFC conference and use the Summit/non-Summit to split into two.

Helps Summit League, adding two baseball teams, adds swim teams. Creates natural travel partners (UNC/Denver, UND/NDSU, SDSU/USD, Omaha/WIU, IUPUI/IPFW), and renews lots of long term rivalries. This league would have some of the best attended BB games around, and you even have a core group for a Hockey league (Denver, Omaha, UND). IMHO, there are few downsides to this.


I've said for quite some time that the Summit league should try to have its own football conference, separate from the MVFC.

But it would take UND and then another football team to get to six. And that only gets you five conference games per year. They'd need a firm scheduling alliance in place with the MVFC to get to 8 or 9 games per year.

Omaha just dropped football, don't think it's coming back. That leaves Indianapolis, Fort Wayne and Denver. Not sure if any of those have the interest or ability to start a program.

[Bisonator]

Six pages in this thread and not one response from a UND fan yet...crazy. We've heard all of the excuses as to why NDSU should not play UND, and they are just that...excuses. Everyone has been refuted...even the monetary one. I realize MSU bought out their game this year, making NDSU have to fork out $180,000 for a DII game but UND would come at no expense at all. The argument about losing home game revenue doesn't hold water either. All NDSU has to do to make that up is realize that "premier game ticket pricing" does work. I would be willing to bet that there would be 19,000 plus North Dakotans will to spend up to twice as much to attend an NDSU vs UND game. The only excuse that really matters is the possibility that NDSU might actually lose to UND (which history tells us they would eventually do). There are no other legitimate excuses not to play the other than that. Ok Bison fans....rip away! xpeacex

Again what is there for NDSU to gain? Would UND be willing to sign a single game or 2 for 1 deal???

[MplsBison]

Six pages in this thread and not one response from a UND fan yet...crazy. We've heard all of the excuses as to why NDSU should not play UND, and they are just that...excuses. Everyone has been refuted...even the monetary one. I realize MSU bought out their game this year, making NDSU have to fork out $180,000 for a DII game but UND would come at no expense at all. The argument about losing home game revenue doesn't hold water either. All NDSU has to do to make that up is realize that "premier game ticket pricing" does work. I would be willing to bet that there would be 19,000 plus North Dakotans will to spend up to twice as much to attend an NDSU vs UND game. The only excuse that really matters is the possibility that NDSU might actually lose to UND (which history tells us they would eventually do). There are no other legitimate excuses not to play the other than that. Ok Bison fans....rip away! xpeacex

I don't think that would go over very well. You'd have to charge quite a bit higher on every single ticket sold to generate double the profit of a single sold-out Fargodome game. Not that it couldn't work.

I would say a more realistic option would be for NDSU and UND to play each other in Minneapolis every year and split the revenue some way that both schools agree to and perhaps depending on how much alumni from each school purchase tickets.

I'd love that, but probably not going to happen.

[darell1976]

I think the rivalry should resume with a single home and home agreement and just get it over with. Then the whiners can stop their bellyaching about Gene Taylor holding grudges, etc. Play each other once at both home fields, not necessarily in consecutive years, and move on. This should absolutely not be an every year series.

http://www.kxnet.com/story/18441576/und-and-ndsu-could-renew-football-rivalry-in-2015


UND athletic director Brian Faison responded today, saying UND will be sending out contracts to NDSU next Monday.
The two dates they're looking at are September 19th, 2015 in Fargo and September 9th, 2017 in Grand Forks.
Faison says everything is still tentative until contracts are signed, but he thinks they can make it happen.
Although there is a little contention over how often they should play.

A simple home and home that GT obviously didn't sign since the contract was sent last year. UND's schedule is almost full up until the end of the decade, and without NDSU either and it included a home and home with South Dakota St and an upcoming home and home with South Dakota. So you fans are right...UND doesn't need SU our scheduling is going great.

[Bisonator]

I would say a more realistic option would be for NDSU and UND to play each other in Minneapolis every year and split the revenue some way that both schools agree to and perhaps depending on how much alumni from each school purchase tickets.

I'd love that, but probably not going to happen.

You know that may be something worth thinking about if this rivalry ever does start again. Have the first game at TCF Bank and split the tickets and revenue evenly. Then NDSU gets the next game. I would bet GT would probably agree to something like that. I wonder how much it would cost to rent the stadium. There is a lot of alumni from both schools down there.

[Bisonator]

http://www.kxnet.com/story/18441576/und-and-ndsu-could-renew-football-rivalry-in-2015



A simple home and home that GT obviously didn't sign since the contract was sent last year. UND's schedule is almost full up until the end of the decade, and without NDSU either and it included a home and home with South Dakota St and an upcoming home and home with South Dakota. So you fans are right...UND doesn't need SU our scheduling is going great.

Great. Then why is a UND alum writing an article like this?xrolleyesx

[344Johnson]

It was. It used to be the only televised program all year. Everybody in the state watched it. They would have watch parties all over the country.

Times change. NDSU fans get to watch all the games on tv. I think UND fans can as well to a different extent. NDSU certainly has watch parties everywhere, I imagine UND either does, or will at some point or another.

If both programs fall on hard times, I imagine they will schedule the game again. But as long as one is definitely in a better place, I don't imagine they will strike a deal.

[Bisonator]

http://www.kxnet.com/story/18441576/und-and-ndsu-could-renew-football-rivalry-in-2015



A simple home and home that GT obviously didn't sign since the contract was sent last year. UND's schedule is almost full up until the end of the decade, and without NDSU either and it included a home and home with South Dakota St and an upcoming home and home with South Dakota. So you fans are right...UND doesn't need SU our scheduling is going great.

BTW is the SDSU game sold out?

[dmksioux]

Again what is there for NDSU to gain? Would UND be willing to sign a single game or 2 for 1 deal???

Prove your the dominant program and thump us like you did in the 80's. The question that should be asked, and that most NDSU fans are too arrogant to acknowedge, is what does NDSU have to lose. What happens if little ol' UND happens to beat NDSU in the first game they play. That is the reason NDSU fans and NDSU administration don't want to play the game.

[344Johnson]

Prove your the dominant program and thump us like you did in the 80's. The question that should be asked, and that most NDSU fans are too arrogant to acknowedge, is what does NDSU have to lose. What happens if little ol' UND happens to beat NDSU in the first game they play. That is the reason NDSU fans and NDSU administration don't want to play the game.


NDSU doesn't have to. Everyone in the state and region already looks at NDSU as the superior program.

[IBleedYellow]

Prove your the dominant program and thump us like you did in the 80's. The question that should be asked, and that most NDSU fans are too arrogant to acknowedge, is what does NDSU have to lose. What happens if little ol' UND happens to beat NDSU in the first game they play. That is the reason NDSU fans and NDSU administration don't want to play the game.

Seriously? We have nothing to gain and everything to lose? Is that what you are saying?

I'm done with this discussion, too many stupid people.

Too bad the Twins have Dave St. Peter. I hear he's a great guy, but if they had a NDSU alum right now I wonder if they would actually have a shot at a playoffs run. Probably. We don't accept mediocrity like you guys up North. 1 National title, although a lot of hockey titles. That's mediocrity at its finest.

Moto X

[darell1976]

BTW is the SDSU game sold out?

No but it should be around 11k the biggest in 5 years.

[darell1976]

Great. Then why is a UND alum writing an article like this?xrolleyesx

Because he and some of us fans want the game played. Yes NDSU fans can be bitter of what happened in 2003 BUT different president, different AD, and every coach currently at UND...WASN'T there in 03. The only two people still there at this time is Gene Taylor and Craig Bohl.

[UNDColorado]

BTW is the SDSU game sold out?

No, but they don't sell out their games either(maybe against ndsu). SDSU had less attendance than we did week 1. Nice try.

Honestly I could give a ***** less is we play in regular season. This bizon response and outcry from this article has been entertaining though.

[MplsBison]

You know that may be something worth thinking about if this rivalry ever does start again. Have the first game at TCF Bank and split the tickets and revenue evenly. Then NDSU gets the next game. I would bet GT would probably agree to something like that. I wonder how much it would cost to rent the stadium. There is a lot of alumni from both schools down there.

The University of Minnesota wants absolutely nothing to do with any of the Dakota schools. Nothing. They view them as pests, at best. They are not going to rent their stadium to two Dakota schools to have a Dakota Bowl and potentially attract Twin Cities attention and even recruits away from the U.

I was thinking the new Vikings stadium, say starting in 2016. I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap, but then again NSIC schools were/are playing in the Metrodome.

I would like to think that both schools could each easily get 20k fans and alumni out for the game in Sept, plus tailgating opportunities.

[FargoBison]

If the FCS had a 12 game schedule I would be all for playing UND every single year. We could play them, an FBS and still have 6 homes games most seasons. Unfortunately that isn't the case.

NDSU has a lot fans shelling out some serious money to go to games and tailgate. These people want value for their money and NDSU wants to keep them happy...that means getting six home game as often as possible. The fans, coaches and players also want to play an FBS every year. Trying to get six homes games with an FBS is already very difficult...toss UND into the mix and it becomes impossible.

[bisonboone11]

Prove your the dominant program and thump us like you did in the 80's. The question that should be asked, and that most NDSU fans are too arrogant to acknowedge, is what does NDSU have to lose. What happens if little ol' UND happens to beat NDSU in the first game they play. That is the reason NDSU fans and NDSU administration don't want to play the game.
Haven't the back-to-back national championships already proven that? I think the only ones that doubt that NDSU is the dominant program are UND fans, and I bet even then it is a very small number.

[MplsBison]

Because he and some of us fans want the game played. Yes NDSU fans can be bitter of what happened in 2003 BUT different president, different AD, and every coach currently at UND...WASN'T there in 03. The only two people still there at this time is Gene Taylor and Craig Bohl.

It's Taylor. He doesn't want the game and has done everything he can to blackball it. Probably will have to move on before it's started up again.

[FargoBison]

The University of Minnesota wants absolutely nothing to do with any of the Dakota schools. Nothing. They view them as pests, at best. They are not going to rent their stadium to two Dakota schools to have a Dakota Bowl and potentially attract Twin Cities attention and even recruits away from the U.

I was thinking the new Vikings stadium, say starting in 2016. I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap, but then again NSIC schools were/are playing in the Metrodome.

I would like to think that both schools could each easily get 20k fans and alumni out for the game in Sept, plus tailgating opportunities.

This is St Peter's big idea...maybe he should offer up Target Field rent free for the game to get things going. Maybe call up some of the corporations the team does business with and have them sponsor the game. If he wants the game to be played so badly come at Gene with an offer he can't refuse.

With that said I really don't like the idea of playing this game in a different state. It is game that should be played within ND's borders.

[dmksioux]

No I think that what Bison fans are saying with all their excuses as tho why they don't want to play UND. According to NDSU fans, their is no reason to play the game, it only helps UND, etc. Well, it only helps UND if UND wins. If we play the bison and get thumped like we did in the 80's that's not going to help UND in attendance or fan interest in the least. The only way UND benefits is if they beat NDSU...which is exactly what NDSU is afraid of.

For the record, I don't typically get into these NDSU-UND pissing matches, but kind of felt like stirring things up a little bit...it's amazing how arrogant and almighty NDSU fans can be with their team, especially towards UND.

Congrats on the KSU victory by the way...very good win.

[bisonboone11]

No I think that what Bison fans are saying with all their excuses as tho why they don't want to play UND. According to NDSU fans, their is no reason to play the game, it only helps UND, etc. Well, it only helps UND if UND wins. If we play the bison and get thumped like we did in the 80's that's not going to help UND in attendance or fan interest in the least. The only way UND benefits is if they beat NDSU...which is exactly what NDSU is afraid of.

For the record, I don't typically get into these NDSU-UND pissing matches, but kind of felt like stirring things up a little bit...it's amazing how arrogant and almighty NDSU fans can be with their team, especially towards UND.

Congrats on the KSU victory by the way...very good win.
Really? The only way UND benefits is if they beat NDSU? Come on. You can't honestly believe that. Obviously if they won, it would help them more, but even if they lost, they are supposed to lose. You're honestly saying that getting a guaranteed sellout at the Alerus wouldn't help UND?

[Bisonoline]

Nice to see a UND alum admit it was UND that would not accept the NDSU scheduling offer in 2003. Even though he puts the current blame on NDSU.


http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/272402/

Dave St. Peter: Renew the UND-NDSU football rivalry

Well done!!!!!

[Bisonator]

It's Taylor. He doesn't want the game and has done everything he can to blackball it. Probably will have to move on before it's started up again.

I think it's more Teammakers myself. I know a couple big wigs who are big donors to NDSU. They don't ever want to see UND on the schedule. Can't blame them for what went down 10 years ago. It is what it is.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I think it's more Teammakers myself. I know a couple big wigs who are big donors to NDSU. They don't ever want to see UND on the schedule. Can't blame them for what went down 10 years ago. It is what it is.

So like I said. This has nothing to do with money but everything to do with this petty high school ****.


****ing Sweet Valley High is what it is.

[aces1180]

Six pages in this thread and not one response from a UND fan yet...crazy. We've heard all of the excuses as to why NDSU should not play UND, and they are just that...excuses. Everyone has been refuted...even the monetary one. I realize MSU bought out their game this year, making NDSU have to fork out $180,000 for a DII game but UND would come at no expense at all. The argument about losing home game revenue doesn't hold water either. All NDSU has to do to make that up is realize that "premier game ticket pricing" does work. I would be willing to bet that there would be 19,000 plus North Dakotans will to spend up to twice as much to attend an NDSU vs UND game. The only excuse that really matters is the possibility that NDSU might actually lose to UND (which history tells us they would eventually do). There are no other legitimate excuses not to play the other than that. Ok Bison fans....rip away! xpeacex

So NDSU should screw over the 12,000+ season ticket holders who go to every game, regardless of opponent, by raising ticket prices just so UND can host the Bison in the future?

I'm all for playing UND, in Fargo, for a guarantee with no obligation to return to GF. Are you on board with that?

[dmksioux]

Perhaps for one game. But if the first game is in Fargo, which it most likely would be, and NDSU did what they were supposed and crush us, do you think UND fans will be lining up in droves for the follow up game at the Al? I would suspect that the ratio for the UND-NDSU game at the Al to be somewhere around 65-70% UND and 35%-40% NDSU fans. Sure we might get a good gate for one game over a two year period, but losing (possibly decisively) will have longer lasting effects on attendance at all the other home games. If UND isn't able to compete with perennial playoff teams, I would suspect that attendance would be down for the other games...similar to how it's been the last few years.

So yes, it would help UND sell out one home game every other year, but potentially hurt attendance (if UND lost and lost big) for the other 10-12 home games over the 2 year period.

[aces1180]

So like I said. This has nothing to do with money but everything to do with this petty high school ****.


****ing Sweet Valley High is what it is.

For me, its about getting value out of my season tickets...I want six home games a year, plus I want to see NDSU play FBS...Unless ever year was a 12-game schedule, that scheduling model works best. Scheduling a game in Grand Forks either eliminates a home game or the FBS game for that particular year. I don't think that is a good idea.

I want the game played, but only in Fargo. Let's see if UND is willing to make that happen if the rivalry is so important.

[Bisonoline]

No I think that what Bison fans are saying with all their excuses as tho why they don't want to play UND. According to NDSU fans, their is no reason to play the game, it only helps UND, etc. Well, it only helps UND if UND wins. If we play the bison and get thumped like we did in the 80's that's not going to help UND in attendance or fan interest in the least. The only way UND benefits is if they beat NDSU...which is exactly what NDSU is afraid of.

For the record, I don't typically get into these NDSU-UND pissing matches, but kind of felt like stirring things up a little bit...it's amazing how arrogant and almighty NDSU fans can be with their team, especially towards UND.

Congrats on the KSU victory by the way...very good win.

I for one want the game played. But for you to think the reason NDSU wont play you is because we are afraid to lose is ridiculous and that is getting as old as the excuses not to play the game. For many they will never forget how UND stuck it to NDSU when we were going through transition. Not to mention all of the bad words thrown our way during the process.

NDSU sent UND a contract but your AD refused to sign it as he was being the arrogant one and was demanding a game every year. Just think if he would have singed the contract. UND would have worked its way in to NDSus future scheduling plans and we would be playing the game that should be played. But your AD didnt have that vision and we are where we are because of that.

[deez_na]

It doesn't benefit NDSU but it does UND. If they wanna agree to come play NDSU then so be it but we don't need to waste a game on our schedule playing them home & home when it's only really helping UND out.

[Bisonator]

No I think that what Bison fans are saying with all their excuses as tho why they don't want to play UND. According to NDSU fans, their is no reason to play the game, it only helps UND, etc. Well, it only helps UND if UND wins. If we play the bison and get thumped like we did in the 80's that's not going to help UND in attendance or fan interest in the least. The only way UND benefits is if they beat NDSU...which is exactly what NDSU is afraid of.

Yeah right. UND can't sell out the stadium and never could except for the NDSU game. UND's fans don't show up for football, never have, except against NDSU. They would come out of the wood work if there was a game with NDSU.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I for one want the game played. But for you to think the reason NDSU wont play you is because we are afraid to lose is ridiculous and that is getting as old as the excuses not to play the game. For many they will never forget how UND stuck it to NDSU when we were going through transition. Not to mention all of the bad words thrown our way during the process.

NDSU sent UND a contract but your AD refused to sign it as he was being the arrogant one and was demanding a game every year. Just think if he would have singed the contract. UND would have worked its way in to NDSus future scheduling plans and we would be playing the game that should be played. But your AD didnt have that vision and we are where we are because of that.

This. UND has screwed this up on several occasions. I don't really care who blinks, as long as it gets done.

[344Johnson]

No I think that what Bison fans are saying with all their excuses as tho why they don't want to play UND. According to NDSU fans, their is no reason to play the game, it only helps UND, etc. Well, it only helps UND if UND wins. If we play the bison and get thumped like we did in the 80's that's not going to help UND in attendance or fan interest in the least. The only way UND benefits is if they beat NDSU...which is exactly what NDSU is afraid of.

For the record, I don't typically get into these NDSU-UND pissing matches, but kind of felt like stirring things up a little bit...it's amazing how arrogant and almighty NDSU fans can be with their team, especially towards UND.

Congrats on the KSU victory by the way...very good win.

UND would have nothing to lose. Everything to gain....including the financial sellout of the Alerus.


Perhaps for one game. But if the first game is in Fargo, which it most likely would be, and NDSU did what they were supposed and crush us, do you think UND fans will be lining up in droves for the follow up game at the Al? I would suspect that the ratio for the UND-NDSU game at the Al to be somewhere around 65-70% UND and 35%-40% NDSU fans. Sure we might get a good gate for one game over a two year period, but losing (possibly decisively) will have longer lasting effects on attendance at all the other home games. If UND isn't able to compete with perennial playoff teams, I would suspect that attendance would be down for the other games...similar to how it's been the last few years.

So yes, it would help UND sell out one home game every other year, but potentially hurt attendance (if UND lost and lost big) for the other 10-12 home games over the 2 year period.

UND fans will go to a game against NDSU regardless of how bad NDSU beats up on them....and UND's attendance really probably can't go down much more than it already has. Small risk, big reward.

[aces1180]

I for one want the game played. But for you to think the reason NDSU wont play you is because we are afraid to lose is ridiculous and that is getting as old as the excuses not to play the game. For many they will never forget how UND stuck it to NDSU when we were going through transition. Not to mention all of the bad words thrown our way during the process.

NDSU sent UND a contract but your AD refused to sign it as he was being the arrogant one and was demanding a game every year. Just think if he would have singed the contract. UND would have worked its way in to NDSus future scheduling plans and we would be playing the game that should be played. But your AD didnt have that vision and we are where we are because of that.

Agree...Gene offered the every-other year contract and it was denied. UND said it didn't work for them. When Faison sent the latest proposal to GT, it wasn't in the best interest of NDSU...How hard is it for some of these people to understand? NDSU is going to do what is best for them, not UND. Right now, paying 2 OOC teams to come to the Fargodome, going to an FBS school and playing eight conference games is the scheduling model GT has used and it has proven successful.

[Hammerhead]

I spent the first 28 years of my life in N.D. and northern Minn. and would love to see the rivalry renewed. Finding money games vs. FBS teams may be getting harder for all good FCS teams and we haven't exactly had any good home non-conference games in a few years. Why not start with a 3-year series with games in Fargo on the end and one in Grand Forks in the middle since UND probably needs this game more than NDSU does.



I'm often wondering if I'm the only native North Dakotan here. I think it would be good for the state to get it going again. Rising tide lifts all ships.

Forget economics, wouldn't this game be better than Ferris State?

[dmksioux]

So NDSU should screw over the 12,000+ season ticket holders who go to every game, regardless of opponent, by raising ticket prices just so UND can host the Bison in the future?

I'm all for playing UND, in Fargo, for a guarantee with no obligation to return to GF. Are you on board with that?

Yup, but not to screw over ticketholders (not the primary reason anyway). There are many many examples of schools using premier ticket pricing for the big ticket games. NDSU administration will eventually learn that they can generate more revenue for their program and still sell out premier games. If they don't, I guess it's an extra revenue stream that will remain untapped...

[aces1180]

I spent the first 28 years of my life in N.D. and northern Minn. and would love to see the rivalry renewed. Finding money games vs. FBS teams may be getting harder for all good FCS teams and we haven't exactly had any good home non-conference games in a few years. Why not start with a 3-year series with games in Fargo on the end and one in Grand Forks in the middle since UND probably needs this game more than NDSU does.

Because UND wants everything to be equal...

News flash to the GF faithful, UND is not on equal footing as NDSU.

They want to play us, do it for cash in Fargo. It's pretty simple. Notice no UND fans are on board with that idea, even though they want the game to be played.

[darell1976]

Yeah right. UND can't sell out the stadium and never could except for the NDSU game. UND's fans don't show up for football, never have, except against NDSU. They would come out of the wood work if there was a game with NDSU.

Funny you say that because winning helps attendance and when NDSU was 3-8 in 2009 your games weren't getting sold out. UND had great attendance during the early years of the Alerus (2001-2007) yes NDSU was a sellout but when you can get 10k+ against a St. Cloud State or Central Washington that's still good. Now UND had over 9k against Valpo tack on 11k vs SDSU another 11k against Montana, MSU and EWU and UND football attendance will be back to pre transition form.

[Bisonoline]

It doesn't benefit NDSU but it does UND. If they wanna agree to come play NDSU then so be it but we don't need to waste a game on our schedule playing them home & home when it's only really helping UND out.

So playing Wagner, Prairie View a&m etc etc make more sense? I understand you not wanting to help UND out but please explain how playing them would do so?

[aces1180]

Yup, but not to screw over ticketholders (not the primary reason anyway). There are many many examples of schools using premier ticket pricing for the big ticket games. NDSU administration will eventually learn that they can generate more revenue for their program and still sell out premier games. If they don't, I guess it's an extra revenue stream that will remain untapped...

Or, you know, they can continue with the model they have for the past six years and continue to make money hand over fist. You never answered my question...Are you on board getting this game going again with UND visiting NDSU as a OOC guarantee game?

[aces1180]

So playing Wagner, Prairie View a&m etc etc make more sense? I understand you not wanting to help UND out but please explain how playing them would do so?

It makes more sense in the fact that NDSU doesn't have to go back to Wagner, et al. to play a game. UND needs to realize they are nothing more than an OOC team that should take the guarantee to play in Fargo.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Oh if only there was some sort of board that had some say over all of these schools and was working in the best interest of the whole system.

[darell1976]

Oh if only there was some sort of board that had some say over all of these schools and was working in the best interest of the whole system.

Like a state law to force the teams to play. Been there, denied.

[Bisonoline]

It makes more sense in the fact that NDSU doesn't have to go back to Wagner, et al. to play a game. UND needs to realize they are nothing more than an OOC team that should take the guarantee to play in Fargo.

Or they do what Iowas --Iowa State did. Because of the seating disparity they came up with a formula on the revenue sharing.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Like a state law. Been there, denied.

or just a board of higher education looking out for the whole university system of which BOTH PEER INSTITUTIONS are a part.

[darell1976]

or just a board of higher education looking out for the whole university system of which BOTH PEER INSTITUTIONS are a part.

Is there such a thing? J/k. There is a board but their biggest issue now is getting a leader that isn't corrupted like Shirvani was. Glad he is gone.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Is there such a thing? J/k. There is a board but their biggest issue now is getting a leader that isn't corrupted like Shirvani was. Glad he is gone.

well whatever, we can say it all we want but NDSU and UND are peer institutions in the same system in the same state.

To assert anything else is as stupid as the K State/KU conversation.

[aces1180]

Or they do what Iowas --Iowa State did. Because of the seating disparity they came up with a formula on the revenue sharing.

That makes sense, but it doesn't help the diehard Bison fans who would be thwarted for tickets by UND fans who go to 0 games normally.

Like I said before, I trust GT will do what is best for NDSU, which is the way it should be.

[aces1180]

or just a board of higher education looking out for the whole university system of which BOTH PEER INSTITUTIONS are a part.

The board and legislature need to stay out of athletics...Especially considering the fact that they give $0 for facilities.

[Bisonator]

Or we can just leave it dead. Both schools seem to be doing fine without each other. The state is thriving economically. xpeacex

[bisonboone11]

Perhaps for one game. But if the first game is in Fargo, which it most likely would be, and NDSU did what they were supposed and crush us, do you think UND fans will be lining up in droves for the follow up game at the Al? I would suspect that the ratio for the UND-NDSU game at the Al to be somewhere around 65-70% UND and 35%-40% NDSU fans. Sure we might get a good gate for one game over a two year period, but losing (possibly decisively) will have longer lasting effects on attendance at all the other home games. If UND isn't able to compete with perennial playoff teams, I would suspect that attendance would be down for the other games...similar to how it's been the last few years.

So yes, it would help UND sell out one home game every other year, but potentially hurt attendance (if UND lost and lost big) for the other 10-12 home games over the 2 year period.
UND is already losing decisively to playoff teams. 35-17 to Cal Poly; 55-17 to EWU; 55-10 to MSU. The people that are going to the games now have already seen very decisive losses to playoff teams, and they're still going. How would adding one more decisive loss to a playoff team hurt any more than those three losses?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The board and legislature need to stay out of athletics...Especially considering the fact that they give $0 for facilities.

education money is fungible. The land NDSU and the Fargodome sit on is owned by the state. The schools are not in a bubble.

[BisonBacker]

Here is another way to look at this:

UND is floundering, NDSU is currently flourishing. What can UND fans do to actually sell out their home games? They have a great home schedule this year, yet, if you want to buy tickets on the 50 yard line, you can. How does UND fix this problem? Play NDSU, let us fill the Alerus up for them. UND isn't exactly doing well, no matter what people say, outside looking in, we can see they aren't doing amazing. If the roles were reversed, would UND help NDSU out?

I can answer that with a reverberating HELL NO!

This 10,000 times over

[darell1976]

That makes sense, but it doesn't help the diehard Bison fans who would be thwarted for tickets by UND fans who go to 0 games normally.

Like I said before, I trust GT will do what is best for NDSU, which is the way it should be.

Just a question, you said GT offered every other year but UND said no....if Faison were to agree to that would you bitch and moan every time NDSU were to travel to UND? UND actually doesn't need the game against NDSU since 2014 is full, UND has 1 spot open in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018. Filling a total of 4 games among 4 years shouldn't be a problem, how many holes does NDSU need to fill within the next 5 years? I know you love the "6 home games", but now with D2 games counting (sort of) will GT be forced to schedule more of those just till fill the six home games or go against fans (like you) and take an OOC FCS game on the road.

[BisonBacker]

This.

USD and SDSU managed to get over it. If you really want to stick it to Roger Thomas, don't schedule Mary.

Apples & Oranges in other words no comparison! Not even close.

[Bisonoline]

That makes sense, but it doesn't help the diehard Bison fans who would be thwarted for tickets by UND fans who go to 0 games normally.

Like I said before, I trust GT will do what is best for NDSU, which is the way it should be.

That would be an obstacle. No reason playing the game if I cant go to it.:D

[darell1976]

Maybe this was the reason St. Peter did this article.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwbop13A9yQ

[BisonBacker]

This isn't an old girlfriend, this is another institution in your already small state. A state that few people care about no matter how many big successes we have.

You again have proved how short sighted you are.

[Bisonoline]

Just a question, you said GT offered every other year but UND said no....if Faison were to agree to that would you bitch and moan every time NDSU were to travel to UND? UND actually doesn't need the game against NDSU since 2014 is full, UND has 1 spot open in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018. Filling a total of 4 games among 4 years shouldn't be a problem, how many holes does NDSU need to fill within the next 5 years? I know you love the "6 home games", but now with D2 games counting (sort of) will GT be forced to schedule more of those just till fill the six home games or go against fans (like you) and take an OOC FCS game on the road.

There was only one reason GT scheduled the D2 game. MSU bailed at the 11th hour. Not to mention that it became a counter after it was scheduled I believe.

[aces1180]

Just a question, you said GT offered every other year but UND said no....if Faison were to agree to that would you bitch and moan every time NDSU were to travel to UND? UND actually doesn't need the game against NDSU since 2014 is full, UND has 1 spot open in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018. Filling a total of 4 games among 4 years shouldn't be a problem, how many holes does NDSU need to fill within the next 5 years? I know you love the "6 home games", but now with D2 games counting (sort of) will GT be forced to schedule more of those just till fill the six home games or go against fans (like you) and take an OOC FCS game on the road.

At the time, I had no problem with the every-other-year scenario.

However, times have changed and NDSU doesn't play FCS schools on the road unless required in the playoffs (Montana is the one and only exception scheduled). Scheduling a home/home with UND is not in NDSU's best interest right now. Why can't people understand that?

Here's a question for you - Should UND accept a guarantee to play games against NDSU in the Fargodome just for the sake of the rivalry?

BTW - I'm not in the minority of fans wanting six home games and an FBS game each year.

[BisonFan02]

Why the **** are we talking about this?

[darell1976]

At the time, I had no problem with the every-other-year scenario.

However, times have changed and NDSU doesn't play FCS schools on the road unless required in the playoffs (Montana is the one and only exception scheduled). Scheduling a home/home with UND is not in NDSU's best interest right now. Why can't people understand that?

Here's a question for you? Should UND accept a guarantee to play games against NDSU in the Fargodome just for the sake of the rivalry?

So UND's schedule every year should be FBS, NDSU, and vs OOC FCS, 8 BSC games. 5 home, 6 away just for the sake of the rivalry. Just for myself I would agree to it since I live in Fargo and would go to every UND-NDSU game in Fargo, but NO WAY would UND agree to that. That would be like telling ND you can only go to USC or telling Florida St, you can can only go to Florida. Its not going to work.

[BisonBacker]

It was. It used to be the only televised program all year. Everybody in the state watched it. They would have watch parties all over the country.

Just a few posts back you said it didn't matter how many big wins we had. Obviously NDSU has increased it's stock not only in the State but accross the FCS/FBS landscape and all our games are televised. So which is it with you it does or doesn't matter what we do because obviously it does. Maybe for you it would be better if we just went back to televising one game per year and play UND every year and have that be the game cuz obviously that's what you have this big hard on for. For me I live the idea that I can see NDSU beat the likes of K-State on national tv vs. one televised game a year against a team that has a hard time filling half that tin can up north.

[darell1976]

Why the **** are we talking about this?

Because mid week during football is boring and when a team (NDSU) is playing a DII team where the score will be tomorrow's high in Fargo (90's) you need something to talk about.:D

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Just a few posts back you said it didn't matter how many big wins we had. Obviously NDSU has increased it's stock not only in the State but accross the FCS/FBS landscape and all our games are televised. So which is it with you it does or doesn't matter what we do because obviously it does. Maybe for you it would be better if we just went back to televising one game per year and play UND every year and have that be the game cuz obviously that's what you have this big hard on for. For me I live the idea that I can see NDSU beat the likes of K-State on national tv vs. one televised game a year against a team that has a hard time filling half that tin can up north.

Rather than sniping at me for the sake of it, read the post to which I was responding. The poster was saying that I was acting like it was a great collaboration for the state and, using the logic I posted, I was contending that it was.

[aces1180]

So UND's schedule every year should be FBS, NDSU, and vs OOC FCS, 8 BSC games. 5 home, 6 away just for the sake of the rivalry. Just for myself I would agree to it since I live in Fargo and would go to every UND-NDSU game in Fargo, but NO WAY would UND agree to that. That would be like telling ND you can only go to USC or telling Florida St, you can can only go to Florida. Its not going to work.

Show me where I said it should be every year. NDSU will do what is best for NDSU. A home/home with UND is not in its best interest. Play one game in Fargo (replacing our traditional OOC game) for the guarantee and see what happens.

[darell1976]

Show me where I said it should be every year. NDSU will do what is best for NDSU. A home/home with UND is not in its best interest. Play one game in Fargo (replacing our traditional OOC game) for the guarantee and see what happens.

What will happen is if UND wins, UND will most likely continue to play in Fargo (unless NDSU doesn't want to deal with UND again) or if UND loses they will want a return game in Grand Forks. So basically its where it is now...up to the NCAA. Whoever gets the top seed will host the UND/NDSU game as this series will NOT be renewed.

[BisonBacker]

Six pages in this thread and not one response from a UND fan yet...crazy. We've heard all of the excuses as to why NDSU should not play UND, and they are just that...excuses. Everyone has been refuted...even the monetary one. I realize MSU bought out their game this year, making NDSU have to fork out $180,000 for a DII game but UND would come at no expense at all. The argument about losing home game revenue doesn't hold water either. All NDSU has to do to make that up is realize that "premier game ticket pricing" does work. I would be willing to bet that there would be 19,000 plus North Dakotans will to spend up to twice as much to attend an NDSU vs UND game. The only excuse that really matters is the possibility that NDSU might actually lose to UND (which history tells us they would eventually do). There are no other legitimate excuses not to play the other than that. Ok Bison fans....rip away! xpeacex

If you can't see the monetary reason where NDSU loses money in this you are an idiot

[Bisonator]

or just a board of higher education looking out for the whole university system of which BOTH PEER INSTITUTIONS are a part.

Typical liberal way of thinking. You're not getting your way so get the government to fix it for you. xblehx

[BisonBohl]

I am probably in the minority for Bison fans, but I think the game should be played yearly. I dont care whats happened or if we need them or not, I just know growing up those were some of the best memories and I miss it.

[aces1180]

What will happen is if UND wins, UND will most likely continue to play in Fargo (unless NDSU doesn't want to deal with UND again) or if UND loses they will want a return game in Grand Forks. So basically its where it is now...up to the NCAA. Whoever gets the top seed will host the UND/NDSU game as this series will NOT be renewed.

Works for me...Game is played in Fargo, the playoffs or nothing.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Typical liberal way of thinking. You're not getting your way so get the government to fix it for you. xblehx

Hey dumb****, the schools are government institutions.

[darell1976]

Works for me...Game is played in Fargo, the playoffs or nothing.

So if GT were to schedule any FCS game on the road you wouldn't like it or just UND? Because NDSU has done that since joining DI in 2004.

[Bisonator]

Hey dumb****, the schools are government institutions.

Hey dumb****, doesn't mean they have to control athletic scheduling!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Hey dumb****, doesn't mean they have to control athletic scheduling!

Both Gene Taylor and Craig Bohl are government employees. How much do you hate them now?

Introducing politics and government vitriol in this discussion is stupid. The schools are under the control of the government, that's just the way it is.

[aces1180]

So if GT were to schedule any FCS game on the road you wouldn't like it or just UND? Because NDSU has done that since joining DI in 2004.

Since being eligible for the playoffs in 2008, NDSU has only scheduled one home/home game and that is with Montana. They did play SHSU on the road in 2009, but that was to fulfill the backend of a game played in 2007. I'm happy NDSU gets UM in the Fargodome next year, but I am not pleased they will be going to Missoula in 2015. However, if they are able to schedule 12 games that season (I'm not sure off hand if that is one of the years), still have an FBS game and six in the Fargodome, then it wouldn't bother me as much.

[IBleedYellow]

So if GT were to schedule any FCS game on the road you wouldn't like it or just UND? Because NDSU has done that since joining DI in 2004.

If we play a Montana or a Montana State, I'm 100x more happy than playing UND.


Hey dumb****, the schools are government institutions.

That run differently and have different philosophies. One likes to win, the other likes to think they can win.

[BisonBacker]

Yup, but not to screw over ticketholders (not the primary reason anyway). There are many many examples of schools using premier ticket pricing for the big ticket games. NDSU administration will eventually learn that they can generate more revenue for their program and still sell out premier games. If they don't, I guess it's an extra revenue stream that will remain untapped...

Talk about being full of yourself. Big ticket game (UND)? That's laughable. Don't flatter yourself.

[BisonBacker]

well whatever, we can say it all we want but NDSU and UND are peer institutions in the same system in the same state.

To assert anything else is as stupid as the K State/KU conversation.

So why don't we get the same funding as UND from the state? We are Peer Institutions. I say when the state pulls it's head out and funds NDSU on par per student compared to UND then we can talk about getting this game going again. I'll wait on that till hell freezes over cuz they won't do it.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So why don't we get the same funding as UND from the state? We are Peer Institutions. I say when the state pulls it's head out and funds NDSU on par per student compared to UND then we can talk about getting this game going again. I'll wait on that till hell freezes over cuz they won't do it.

so are we the big brother or the little sister?

[BisonCM]

The one thing that I got from this thread is that a lot of NDSU fans are acting just like fans of FBS teams in that why should we play down when we have nothing to gain. If we win we are supposed to win and if we lose we look terrible.

I was a student during the transition years and have never witnessed the rivalry so I don't have the passion that a lot of people have on here for playing or not playing them. It just seems like NDSU fans are acting exactly like the FBS fans on this issue.

It reads just like the U of M message boards when the Bison played the gophers and more recently with the Big 10 not scheduling FCS anymore.

My personal opinion is to have home and home with an off year in between with a 5 million dollar buyout or something stupid and flip the nickle off the capitol building in Bismarck to see who hosts first. This game will be played sometime and might as well get it over with.

[BisonBacker]

so are we the big brother or the little sister?

From a state funding standpoint clearly the little sister. Even though we do more with less $$$ The big brother little sister comparison in athletics is clear. UN_ has their panties in a bunch wanting to get a game with NDSU.

[Bisonator]

This is getting ridiculous. Some undie grad stirred the pot and we all jumped right back into the *****!xsmhx

I'm out.xlolx

[BisonBacker]

The one thing that I got from this thread is that a lot of NDSU fans are acting just like fans of FBS teams in that why should we play down when we have nothing to gain. If we win we are supposed to win and if we lose we look terrible.

I was a student during the transition years and have never witnessed the rivalry so I don't have the passion that a lot of people have on here for playing or not playing them. It just seems like NDSU fans are acting exactly like the FBS fans on this issue.

It reads just like the U of M message boards when the Bison played the gophers and more recently with the Big 10 not scheduling FCS anymore.

My personal opinion is to have home and home with an off year in between with a 5 million dollar buyout or something stupid and flip the nickle off the capitol building in Bismarck to see who hosts first. This game will be played sometime and might as well get it over with.


Wrong! What part of not having 6 home games and a FBS game don't you understand?

[darell1976]

Since being eligible for the playoffs in 2008, NDSU has only scheduled one home/home game and that is with Montana. They did play SHSU on the road in 2009, but that was to fulfill the backend of a game played in 2007. I'm happy NDSU gets UM in the Fargodome next year, but I am not pleased they will be going to Missoula in 2015. However, if they are able to schedule 12 games that season (I'm not sure off hand if that is one of the years), still have an FBS game and six in the Fargodome, then it wouldn't bother me as much.

I heard it was 2019.

[MplsBison]

This is St Peter's big idea...maybe he should offer up Target Field rent free for the game to get things going. Maybe call up some of the corporations the team does business with and have them sponsor the game. If he wants the game to be played so badly come at Gene with an offer he can't refuse.

With that said I really don't like the idea of playing this game in a different state. It is game that should be played within ND's borders.

Actually, playing it at Target Field is a very realistic alternative and might be quite a bit cheaper. It's a fantastic stadium that's ready now.

That said, I don't know if either NDSU or UND have any room in their 2014 or 2015 schedules that might warrant earlier consideration for Target Field than when the new Vikings Stadium is scheduled to be completed in 2016.

Not that this is going to happen anyway....but it sure would be fun.


And yes, if it were possible the game should be in ND. But there are so many alumni living in Minnesota and MSP, not to mention how many of the current students enrolling in the two flagships come from MN (guessing it's at least 40%). They're both right on the border. I just don't see it being that big of a deal.

[MplsBison]

I think it's more Teammakers myself. I know a couple big wigs who are big donors to NDSU. They don't ever want to see UND on the schedule. Can't blame them for what went down 10 years ago. It is what it is.

Fair enough, that could well be true.

But I don't doubt for a second Taylor would be happy to never schedule UND in football. Football is NDSU's pride and joy, always has been and always will be. Not so for UND, for them it's hockey. Anything that Taylor can do to keep UND down in football, even if just in perception, he would be complicit with.

He's always going to be bitter at Roger Thomas pissing on his 4-year scheduling offer in 2003.

[darell1976]

Actually, playing it at Target Field is a very realistic alternative and might be quite a bit cheaper. It's a fantastic stadium that's ready now.

That said, I don't know if either NDSU or UND have any room in their 2014 or 2015 schedules that might warrant earlier consideration for Target Field than when the new Vikings Stadium is scheduled to be completed in 2016.

Not that this is going to happen anyway....but it sure would be fun.


And yes, if it were possible the game should be in ND. But there are so many alumni living in Minnesota and MSP, not to mention how many of the current students enrolling in the two flagships come from MN (guessing it's at least 40%). They're both right on the border. I just don't see it being that big of a deal.

For UND 2014 is full (@ SJSU, vs Robert Morris, @ Missouri St) 2015 is open (@ Wyoming, vs Drake), and 2016 is open (@ Bowling Green, vs South Dakota). NDSU 2014 (@ Iowa St, vs Montana, vs South Dakota) 2015 (at Montana) 2016 ?? (gobison.com doesn't go up to that year)

[aces1180]

For UND 2014 is full (@ SJSU, vs Robert Morris, @ Missouri St) 2015 is open (@ Wyoming, vs Drake), and 2016 is open (@ Bowling Green, vs South Dakota). NDSU 2014 (@ Iowa St, vs Montana, vs South Dakota) 2015 (at Montana) 2016 ?? (gobison.com doesn't go up to that year)

As of right now, it's @Iowa and Western Carolina (in a game that was supposed to be played this year, but was replaced by Delaware State).

[BisonCM]

Wrong! What part of not having 6 home games and a FBS game don't you understand?

Just my opinion on the thread.

Make the playoffs and get home field in round one or get seeded the year NDSU plays in GF. There's your 6th (and more potentially) home games.

Hell, NDSU should have scheduled UN_ this year and played them in GF. Fill up the Alerus with 70% Bison fans, pick a farm field to tailgate in, make it a home away from home game, and beat the piss out of them (which they would) and still have 8 home games at the FFD by the end of the year.

Keep winning and you'll get plenty of home games. The beauty of playing in the FCS, we actually get a tournament.

[MplsBison]

Or they do what Iowas --Iowa State did. Because of the seating disparity they came up with a formula on the revenue sharing.

The Iowa-Iowa St argument has been tried before. It gives anti-game an excuse because FBS teams play 12 regular season games while FCS is limited to 11 regular season games.

Hence it goes back to the angle of NDSU needing 6 home games and an FBS payday game every season. Can't be done with only 11 regular season games, 8 MVFC games and playing at Grand Forks every other year. Crappy excuse, I know - but it's valid.

FCS should be allowed to have 12 regular season games a year, in my opinion.

[aces1180]

Just my opinion on the thread.

Make the playoffs and get home field in round one or get seeded the year NDSU plays in GF. There's your 6th (and more potentially) home games.

Hell, NDSU should have scheduled UN_ this year and played them in GF. Fill up the Alerus with 70% Bison fans, pick a farm field to tailgate in, make it a home away from home game, and beat the piss out of them (which they would) and still have 8 home games at the FFD by the end of the year.

Keep winning and you'll get plenty of home games. The beauty of playing in the FCS, we actually get a tournament.

When was this game in Grand Forks supposed to happen? The schedules didn't match up. And 70% Bison fans? More like 60/40 UND at best.

[BisonBacker]

This has gotten beyond ridiculous I'm outta here.

[dmksioux]

Or, you know, they can continue with the model they have for the past six years and continue to make money hand over fist. You never answered my question...Are you on board getting this game going again with UND visiting NDSU as a OOC guarantee game?

Sorry, didn't see the question. I would be in favor of playing NDSU in any way. I like that UND has a challenging schedule this year. As the cliche goes, in order to be the best, you got to beat the best and right now that means NDSU.

Also, that means when we go down to Fargo and beat the bison, UND would then be able to dictate the terms of when and where we play NDSU... at least according to bisonville logic. :)

For the record, I never agreed with the series being stopped and thought that Roger Thomas was a fool (using nice term) for not continuing the rivalry.

[MplsBison]

For UND 2014 is full (@ SJSU, vs Robert Morris, @ Missouri St) 2015 is open (@ Wyoming, vs Drake), and 2016 is open (@ Bowling Green, vs South Dakota). NDSU 2014 (@ Iowa St, vs Montana, vs South Dakota) 2015 (at Montana) 2016 ?? (gobison.com doesn't go up to that year)


As of right now, it's @Iowa and Western Carolina (in a game that was supposed to be played this year, but was replaced by Delaware State).

So potentially NDSU and UND could play at Target field in 2015 and 2016, splitting the revenue in some fashion that both schools agree to.

[DJKyR0]

NDSU should agree to a contract that is NDSU's best interests. It owes no allegiance to UND or to any UND fans clamoring for the game. Yes, there is a certain obligation to the NDSU taxpayer, but as athletics are not funded by state dollars its hard to see how NDSU isn't already fulfilling that commitment through research dollars and out-of-staters that are brought into North Dakota for an education. Would the game be a blast, from the time leading up to it to the game itself? Yeah, probably. There'd be tons of pageantry, it'd be the talk of the state, all that. Would I like to see that? Sure. But do I think that should come at the cost of a situation detrimental to NDSU (like less than six home games, or no FBS game for example)? No.

If the game is played, I'll be the first one in line and will be cheering for the Bison to crush UND from start to finish. But I'm happy to wait as long as Gene Taylor and the powers that be feel are prudent.

[darell1976]

Sorry, didn't see the question. I would be in favor of playing NDSU in any way. I like that UND has a challenging schedule this year. As the cliche goes, in order to be the best, you got to beat the best and right now that means NDSU.

Also, that means when we go down to Fargo and beat the bison, UND would then be able to dictate the terms of when and where we play NDSU... at least according to bisonville logic. :)

For the record, I never agreed with the series being stopped and thought that Roger Thomas was a fool (using nice term) for not continuing the rivalry.

A lot of UND fans didn't agree with Roger Thomas's decision to cancel the series.

[aces1180]

NDSU should agree to a contract that is NDSU's best interests. It owes no allegiance to UND or to any UND fans clamoring for the game. Yes, there is a certain obligation to the NDSU taxpayer, but as athletics are not funded by state dollars its hard to see how NDSU isn't already fulfilling that commitment through research dollars and out-of-staters that are brought into North Dakota for an education. Would the game be a blast, from the time leading up to it to the game itself? Yeah, probably. There'd be tons of pageantry, it'd be the talk of the state, all that. Would I like to see that? Sure. But do I think that should come at the cost of a situation detrimental to NDSU (like less than six home games, or no FBS game for example)? No.

If the game is played, I'll be the first one in line and will be cheering for the Bison to crush UND from start to finish. But I'm happy to wait as long as Gene Taylor and the powers that be feel are prudent.


Good post!!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Both Gene Taylor and Craig Bohl are government employees. How much do you hate them now?

Introducing politics and government vitriol in this discussion is stupid. The schools are under the control of the government, that's just the way it is.

I agree and haven't read the whole thread but that is not the way to go unless you are in the lounge and more specifically the poli board.

On the subject of the first page however I saw my friend IBY say that "they need us more than we need them" and that is true. I don't know how that even matters though? If it's a benefit to both schools and the state then this comes from just simple thinking and pettiness that should be abandoned shouldn't it.

It would be a high profile FCS game and should be sought after by both parties. UND needs to kiss some ass, no doubt about it though.

[aces1180]

Sorry, didn't see the question. I would be in favor of playing NDSU in any way. I like that UND has a challenging schedule this year. As the cliche goes, in order to be the best, you got to beat the best and right now that means NDSU.

Also, that means when we go down to Fargo and beat the bison, UND would then be able to dictate the terms of when and where we play NDSU... at least according to bisonville logic. :)

For the record, I never agreed with the series being stopped and thought that Roger Thomas was a fool (using nice term) for not continuing the rivalry.

If UN_ beats NDSU, nothing changes, IMO...

UN_ still keeps the Nickel hidden in the basement of Hyslop or Memorial Stadium and NDSU continues to draw great crowds in its six home games, goes on the road to try an knock off an FBS school and works towards the goal of winning the conference, making the playoffs and earning another NC.

Glad to see you would agree to a guarantee game. Too bad Faison won't do it (not that I blame him).

I just don't see your scenario of UN_ winning a game in Fargo anytime soon, especially with the state of the _efense.

[deez_na]

Sorry, didn't see the question. I would be in favor of playing NDSU in any way. I like that UND has a challenging schedule this year. As the cliche goes, in order to be the best, you got to beat the best and right now that means NDSU.

Also, that means when we go down to Fargo and beat the bison, UND would then be able to dictate the terms of when and where we play NDSU... at least according to bisonville logic. :)

For the record, I never agreed with the series being stopped and thought that Roger Thomas was a fool (using nice term) for not continuing the rivalry.

Only problem with that logic is that UND wouldn't beat NDSU if they were given 20 straight chances.

[darell1976]

I agree and haven't read the whole thread but that is not the way to go unless you are in the lounge and more specifically the poli board.

On the subject of the first page however I saw my friend IBY say that "they need us more than we need them" and that is true. I don't know how that even matters though? If it's a benefit to both schools and the state then this comes from just simple thinking and pettiness that should be abandoned shouldn't it.

It would be a high profile FCS game and should be sought after by both parties. UND needs to kiss some ass, no doubt about it though.

Actually the way teams are bailing on NDSU I would think its then that needs UND. UND has had pretty good success filling out their schedules for the next 5 years only 4 open spots left while SU has gone back to back years scrambling to find an 11th game. So when you look at it does UND really need NDSU?

[MplsBison]

NDSU should agree to a contract that is NDSU's best interests. It owes no allegiance to UND or to any UND fans clamoring for the game. Yes, there is a certain obligation to the NDSU taxpayer, but as athletics are not funded by state dollars its hard to see how NDSU isn't already fulfilling that commitment through research dollars and out-of-staters that are brought into North Dakota for an education. Would the game be a blast, from the time leading up to it to the game itself? Yeah, probably. There'd be tons of pageantry, it'd be the talk of the state, all that. Would I like to see that? Sure. But do I think that should come at the cost of a situation detrimental to NDSU (like less than six home games, or no FBS game for example)? No.

If the game is played, I'll be the first one in line and will be cheering for the Bison to crush UND from start to finish. But I'm happy to wait as long as Gene Taylor and the powers that be feel are prudent.

Good post, but one obvious correction: absolutely NDSU (and UND and most other public schools) athletics are funded by state dollars.

The school "pays" the athletic department whatever money they are short in the budget. Football generates a lot of revenue, no doubt and probably a significant amount above the football budget. But rest assured once you combine in all of the expenses of every sport plus the department itself, no way does the combined revenue of all NDSU athletic events come close to paying all the bills. The school kicks in dollars every year, which the athletic dept counts as "revenue". Hence why the OPE form for NDSU usually shows revenue exactly matching expenses.


And if the school is kicking in money, that means some of that money came from the state. Since the state gives NDSU some X% every year to subsidize the university. Therefore, state dollars are going directly to the athletic department every year.


At least, I'm somewhat confident this is how it works. It's possible I could be completely or technically wrong. But I would love for the athletic department accountant at NDSU to explain it once and for all, one way or another.

In general I find university accounting practice to be vexing and mystifying.

[BisonBacker]

Actually the way teams are bailing on NDSU I would think its then that needs UND. UND has had pretty good success filling out their schedules for the next 5 years only 4 open spots left while SU has gone back to back years scrambling to find an 11th game. So when you look at it does UND really need NDSU?

And we all know the reason for this. Nice try!

[darell1976]

And we all know the reason for this. Nice try!

I already told you the reason in the first sentence. Nice try!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I didn't want this to be a slap fight

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I agree and haven't read the whole thread but that is not the way to go unless you are in the lounge and more specifically the poli board.

On the subject of the first page however I saw my friend IBY say that "they need us more than we need them" and that is true. I don't know how that even matters though? If it's a benefit to both schools and the state then this comes from just simple thinking and pettiness that should be abandoned shouldn't it.

It would be a high profile FCS game and should be sought after by both parties. UND needs to kiss some ass, no doubt about it though.

This has been my thesis all along

[AmsterBison]

If UND wants the game so much, they probably should start lobbying to join the MVFC/Summit. That would be a good move for them on every level.

[darell1976]

If UND wants the game so much, they probably should start lobbying to join the MVFC/Summit.

The eastern schools don't want to travel to another Dakota team, and the SL is a lost cause as Douple didn't want UND or Northern Colorado for baseball. Next conference for UND will be FBS (or whatever FBS/FCS new division will create once the Super 5 is on their own)

[SactoHornetFan]

Because he and some of us fans want the game played. Yes NDSU fans can be bitter of what happened in 2003 BUT different president, different AD, and every coach currently at UND...WASN'T there in 03. The only two people still there at this time is Gene Taylor and Craig Bohl.

Well, there's the answer right there. Two idiots who can't get over a grudge. Hell even the Hatfields and McCoys have put away their guns.

[NDSUstudent]

If a prez of a failing sports team writes an article about sports do people actually listen? I guess the answer is yes. For whatever reason.

[AmsterBison]

The eastern schools don't want to travel to another Dakota team, and the SL is a lost cause as Douple didn't want UND or Northern Colorado for baseball. Next conference for UND will be FBS (or whatever FBS/FCS new division will create once the Super 5 is on their own)

Douple doesn't call the shots on inviting team to the Summit; the membership does. You guys are in league where your nearest away game is a 900+ mile drive and you have no travel partner. Hell, you could save money even if you subsidized MVFC travel expenses.

[darell1976]

Douple doesn't call the shots on inviting team to the Summit; the membership does. You guys are in league where you nearest away game is a 900+ mile drive. You could save money by subsidizing MVFC teams travel to Grand Forks.

Teams almost didn't want USD in the MVFC, but a deal was struck on the verge of the Yotes joining the Big Sky, and UND has a baseball home in the WAC but the SL may lose an auto bid if they keep losing members.

[AmsterBison]

Teams almost didn't want USD in the MVFC, but a deal was struck on the verge of the Yotes joining the Big Sky, and UND has a baseball home in the WAC but the SL may lose an auto bid if they keep losing members.

So what? You are saying because you have a baseball team in the WAC (congratulations on finding a league with worse travel than the Big Sky, btw), you shouldn't go to the Summit?

You want something from NDSU but are never willing to do anything to help NDSU even if it helps UND more. That is my problem with UND in a nutshell. "Yeah, joining the Summit/MVFC would be a great move for us but NDSU gets a tiny benefit so we don't want to do it."

Here's another idea: Instead of lobbying the Legislature to get involved to force NDSU to play in Grand Forks, why not get them to dangle a $250,000 carrot in front of NDSU for every game the Bison play in Grand Forks?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So what? You are saying because you have a baseball team in the WAC (congratulations on finding a league with worse travel than the Big Sky, btw), you shouldn't go to the Summit?

You want something from NDSU but are never willing to do anything to help NDSU even if it helps UND more. That is my problem with UND in a nutshell. "Yeah, joining the Summit/MVFC would be a great move for us but NDSU gets a tiny benefit so we don't want to do it."

Here's another idea: Instead of lobbying the Legislature to get involved to force NDSU to play in Grand Forks, why not get them to dangle a $250,000 carrot in front of NDSU for every game the Bison play in Grand Forks?

I was thinking you could find some sponsors and make it an annual thing. The sponsors would subsidize the visiting team.

[darell1976]

So what? You are saying because you have a baseball team in the WAC (congratulations on finding a league with worse travel than the Big Sky, btw), you shouldn't go to the Summit?

You want something from NDSU but are never willing to do anything to help NDSU even if it helps UND more. That is my problem with UND in a nutshell. "Yeah, joining the Summit/MVFC would be a great move for us but NDSU gets a tiny benefit so we don't want to do it."

Here's another idea: Instead of lobbying the Legislature to get involved to force NDSU to play in Grand Forks, why not get them to dangle a $250,000 carrot in front of NDSU for every game the Bison play in Grand Forks?

Yes worse travel but UND's only option for an autobid conference since Douple denied UND, and the MVFC doesn't want UND so why should they beg Patty and teams like ISU blue and red and YSU to change their mind and allow UND to join. That leaves basketball and trust me with Oakland and UMKC leaving the SL is on very thin ice so maybe the SU's should join the BSC (minus football like Idaho did).

[SUPharmacist]

Well, there's the answer right there. Two idiots who can't get over a grudge. Hell even the Hatfields and McCoys have put away their guns.

Yeah, two idiots who have won back-to-back titles. They must be absolutely clueless about what is good for their program.

[AmsterBison]

Yes worse travel but UND's only option for an autobid conference since Douple denied UND, and the MVFC doesn't want UND so why should they beg Patty and teams like ISU blue and red and YSU to change their mind and allow UND to join. That leaves basketball and trust me with Oakland and UMKC leaving the SL is on very thin ice so maybe the SU's should join the BSC (minus football like Idaho did).

Who said anything about begging? The other Dakota schools would be in your corner. Fact: The Big Sky makes no sense for UND and UND makes no sense for the Big Sky. <-- I know this is a fact because it's in bold.

Oh come on. The Summit was all set to make site visits, which have always resulted in invitations in the past, and UND told them to forget about it. Douple is a convenient scapegoat but membership votes on that kind of stuff and the thing that delayed UND's entry was the endless nickname fiasco.

Moreover, why would I trust a UND fan about the future of the Summit? I've been hearing how the league is doomed from the day NDSU joined. Just like I heard that NDSU was doomed the day they left DII. Face it: When it comes to predicting the future about athletics, UND fans and administrators don't have the best track record.

With NDSU, SDSU, UND, and USD at the core, the Summit would be an extremely stable league which could easily expand into the Minnesota market. Besides, what you are suggesting (SDSU/NDSU joining the Big Sky) would doom USD athletics and kill the Summit. Only a UND fan would think that the South Dakota Board of Regents would allow SDSU to go to the Big Sky without USD. Besides, you seem to have forgotten that the Big Sky didn't want SDSU/NDSU last time and I haven't heard anything that makes me think they have changed their minds or that they are looking to expand.

[MplsBison]

The eastern schools don't want to travel to another Dakota team, and the SL is a lost cause as Douple didn't want UND or Northern Colorado for baseball. Next conference for UND will be FBS (or whatever FBS/FCS new division will create once the Super 5 is on their own)

Not so fast.

It made reasonable sense for UND to join Big Sky members UNC and Sac St as affiliate members of the WAC in baseball, given their new all-sports membership in the Big Sky. Those are the only three all-sports members of the Big Sky that sponsor baseball.


So it wouldn't surprise me if UND knew from the beginning that it was seeking WAC baseball and made its intentions known.

[MplsBison]

Yes worse travel but UND's only option for an autobid conference since Douple denied UND, and the MVFC doesn't want UND so why should they beg Patty and teams like ISU blue and red and YSU to change their mind and allow UND to join. That leaves basketball and trust me with Oakland and UMKC leaving the SL is on very thin ice so maybe the SU's should join the BSC (minus football like Idaho did).

If such an option is on the table for the remaining Dakota flagship universities (and more than likely USD would also join in football), then perhaps one day that may be the inevitable path taken.

But for now, NDSU and SDSU like being kings of the Summit and receiving auto bids to NCAA tournaments.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Actually the way teams are bailing on NDSU I would think its then that needs UND. UND has had pretty good success filling out their schedules for the next 5 years only 4 open spots left while SU has gone back to back years scrambling to find an 11th game. So when you look at it does UND really need NDSU?

You gotta be kidding me with this right? It appears to me being an outsider that the UND side of things is the one clamoring for this more than the other. You do not disagree with this do you?

UND wants it because it would be very good for them.

It would be good for the State.

It would be good, less good than for UND but still good for NDSU.

Enough of the false pretenses.

[darell1976]

If such an option is on the table for the remaining Dakota flagship universities (and more than likely USD would also join in football), then perhaps one day that may be the inevitable path taken.

But for now, NDSU and SDSU like being kings of the Summit and receiving auto bids to NCAA tournaments.

I think if it was possible for UND to go to the MVFC and maybe the SL (bad blood between UND prez Kelley and SL commish Douple) they might go BUT like Amsterbison said its member teams so if you have the Dakota 3 and UNI (forner NCC team and lots of connections between the 2 schools) vote for it that leaves the rest and I don't know if UND has the votes unless YSU or an Illinois St goes FBS and they need a replacement team. Until then they will be racking up the frequent flyer miles.

[RabidRabbit]

I've said for quite some time that the Summit league should try to have its own football conference, separate from the MVFC.

But it would take UND and then another football team to get to six. And that only gets you five conference games per year. They'd need a firm scheduling alliance in place with the MVFC to get to 8 or 9 games per year.

Omaha just dropped football, don't think it's coming back. That leaves Indianapolis, Fort Wayne and Denver. Not sure if any of those have the interest or ability to start a program.

The key is to have UNC and UND pull a SDSU/NDSU takes us both or both no go. That means UND actually has to work WITH somebody else to make it better for both, than to ONLY do what SEEMS to be their interests. That self interest has had the effect of isolating UND from the other three Dakotas, and created a monster of travel, and alignments for all their sports teams. The UND needs to start working in mending their old relationships.

BTW, now that Denver is part of the Summit, how do the UNC fans feel about swapping to join their old NCC mates?

[MplsBison]

I think if it was possible for UND to go to the MVFC and maybe the SL (bad blood between UND prez Kelley and SL commish Douple) they might go BUT like Amsterbison said its member teams so if you have the Dakota 3 and UNI (forner NCC team and lots of connections between the 2 schools) vote for it that leaves the rest and I don't know if UND has the votes unless YSU or an Illinois St goes FBS and they need a replacement team. Until then they will be racking up the frequent flyer miles.

I fully understand why UND can't get into the MVFC at this time.

My post was about NDSU and SDSU joining the Big Sky in all non-football sports (like Idaho, as you said) and USD joining the Big Sky in all sports, as they were previously slated to do.

This would only happen in a Summit doomsday scenario, something like both Indiana schools leaving for the Horizon and everyone getting too antsy to try saving it. In that case, Western Ill and Omaha probably link up with Chicago St and UMKC in the WAC and Denver either goes to the Big Sky or back to the WAC.

[Southern Bison]

Because mid week during football is boring and when a team (NDSU) is playing a DII team where the score will be tomorrow's high in Fargo (90's) you need something to talk about.:D

That's where something called a girlfriend comes in handy to score with her. xthumbsupx

[MplsBison]

The key is to have UNC and UND pull a SDSU/NDSU takes us both or both no go. That means UND actually has to work WITH somebody else to make it better for both, than to ONLY do what SEEMS to be their interests. That self interest has had the effect of isolating UND from the other three Dakotas, and created a monster of travel, and alignments for all their sports teams. The UND needs to start working in mending their old relationships.

I suppose the Dakota flagships plus UNC and WIU could work as a football conference. Again, they'd need a firm commitment from the MVFC for games (as would the MVFC need from the new Summit conf).

UNC would make a nice travel partner with Denver in the Summit.


Not the worst idea in the world!

[darell1976]

You gotta be kidding me with this right? It appears to me being an outsider that the UND side of things is the one clamoring for this more than the other. You do not disagree with this do you?

UND wants it because it would be very good for them.

It would be good for the State.

It would be good, less good than for UND but still good for NDSU.

Enough of the false pretenses.


St. Peter is a fan and you can't blame him, as there are Bison fans and alumn too that want this game played. It was proven on another UND-NDSU rivalry show "When they were kings on PBS" It was Tony Satter (NDSU RB) among other players that want it renewed. It's hard to know what percent wants it on both sides.

[darell1976]

That's where something called a girlfriend comes in handy to score with her. xthumbsupx

Shh my wife doesn't know about my girlfriend.;)

[NDB]

Yeah, two idiots who have won back-to-back titles. They must be absolutely clueless about what is good for their program.


Bunch of selfish jerks. Share the wealth. Amiright?

[Southern Bison]

Shh my wife doesn't know about my girlfriend.;)

xconfusedx Did we just see darell admit his left hand doesn't know what his right hand is doing? xsmhx

[McNeese75]

You have no knowledge of what you speak. That makes no sense from a business/financial perspective for NDSU football.

I'm looking at this as a realist. Would I like to see a game with UND every year? Sure. The problem is to do that you're taking away a home game or a FBS game from NDSU every other year which is a bad thing for me as a fan and not something I'm willing to give up to get UND on the schedule every year. It's pretty easy to understand.

Where is the nearest neutral site that would allow 50,000 fans? Appears to me like this is an ideal candidate for something similar to the SHSU vs SFA game in Reliant Stadium every year. They put 30,000 plus in the stands from two schools that almost never draw half that number. Otherwise sounds like somebody is butthurt with a God complex.

[FargoBison]

Summit football? Please pass the barf bag.....

[FargoBison]

Where is the nearest neutral site that would allow 50,000 fans? Appears to me like this is an ideal candidate for something similar to the SHSU vs SFA game in Reliant Stadium every year. They put 30,000 plus in the stands from two schools that almost never draw half that number. Otherwise sounds like somebody is butthurt with a God complex.

Minneapolis...it would be a bit odd to play the state's biggest rivalry in another state.

[dakotadan]

I don't think that would go over very well. You'd have to charge quite a bit higher on every single ticket sold to generate double the profit of a single sold-out Fargodome game. Not that it couldn't work.

I would say a more realistic option would be for NDSU and UND to play each other in Minneapolis every year and split the revenue some way that both schools agree to and perhaps depending on how much alumni from each school purchase tickets.

I'd love that, but probably not going to happen.
Holy CR@P! I can't believe this is happening but I am going to agree with MPLS. I have said many times that a single game between the two schools at TCF Bank Stadium would be one of the most exciting sports events to attend. I'd say a one time game there just to break the ice would be good and have the potential to make both schools plenty of $$$. I don't know that I would want to see an every year game between the two played in Minneapolis. Even playing the first game in the series in over a decade + in Minneapolis would upset some people just for moving it outside of the state. But it would be a cool one time event to attend that would have a great atmosphere.

[AmsterBison]

Where is the nearest neutral site that would allow 50,000 fans? Appears to me like this is an ideal candidate for something similar to the SHSU vs SFA game in Reliant Stadium every year. They put 30,000 plus in the stands from two schools that almost never draw half that number. Otherwise sounds like somebody is butthurt with a God complex.

The nearest stadium larger than the FargoDome is in Minneapolis (240 miles from Fargo, 300+ from Grand Forks, 430 or so from Bismarck). That might be interesting as a one-time deal, maybe to kick of the resumption of the series.

For the record, I think that the series will and should renew. The best way for it to happen is for UND to get in the same conference as NDSU.

I'm not sure how many more BCS games NDSU is going to get and, honestly, playing MAC teams is not much of a thrill when their stadiums are 2/3 empty.

[Bisonoline]

When an old girlfriend dumps you, and awhile down the road after you have went on to big success and she is not doing as well as she anticipated, tries to get you back....what do you do?

My god that is a terrible analogy.

[BisonBacker]

I think if it was possible for UND to go to the MVFC and maybe the SL (bad blood between UND prez Kelley and SL commish Douple) they might go BUT like Amsterbison said its member teams so if you have the Dakota 3 and UNI (forner NCC team and lots of connections between the 2 schools) vote for it that leaves the rest and I don't know if UND has the votes unless YSU or an Illinois St goes FBS and they need a replacement team. Until then they will be racking up the frequent flyer miles.

This is rich coming from a guy who's team has to travel a minimum of 1800 miles round trip to play at the nearest league venue. Unbelievable xlolx

[MplsBison]

Summit football? Please pass the barf bag.....

Because the thought of losing games against Missouri St, Indiana St and Youngstown State makes you ill?

[MplsBison]

Minneapolis...it would be a bit odd to play the state's biggest rivalry in another state.

Then tell all the alumni of NDSU and UND to stay in the state.

[FargoBison]

Because the thought of losing games against Missouri St, Indiana St and Youngstown State makes you ill?

I like playing YSU....would much rather play them every year then USD, WIU or UNC.

[dakotadan]

...flip the nickle off the capitol building in Bismarck to see who hosts first.
HaHaHa. I'd pay $$$ to watch that alone! Just another way the schools could make money off of this game.

[McNeese75]

Minneapolis...it would be a bit odd to play the state's biggest rivalry in another state.

I understand but at least the game would be played and I bet the crowd would be a good one.

[Bisonoline]

NoDak 4 Ever, I don't know if you're a heavy Teammaker with money, but the ones with the money from everything I've heard have let Gene Taylor know that they don't want to play _ND ever again unless the NCAA makes us with a playoff game.

Money talks.

Strange the big dogs I know want the game to be played.

[Bisonoline]

Prove your the dominant program and thump us like you did in the 80's. The question that should be asked, and that most NDSU fans are too arrogant to acknowedge, is what does NDSU have to lose. What happens if little ol' UND happens to beat NDSU in the first game they play. That is the reason NDSU fans and NDSU administration don't want to play the game.

What are you a child?

[Bisonoline]

The Iowa-Iowa St argument has been tried before. It gives anti-game an excuse because FBS teams play 12 regular season games while FCS is limited to 11 regular season games.

Hence it goes back to the angle of NDSU needing 6 home games and an FBS payday game every season. Can't be done with only 11 regular season games, 8 MVFC games and playing at Grand Forks every other year. Crappy excuse, I know - but it's valid.

FCS should be allowed to have 12 regular season games a year, in my opinion.

The number of games is a non-issue when the argument is about revenue--- playing in GF etc. That was a huge point in starting the iowa series back up and they found a formula that worked. They then had another formula when ISU added additional seats.

[Bisonoline]

Actually the way teams are bailing on NDSU I would think its then that needs UND. UND has had pretty good success filling out their schedules for the next 5 years only 4 open spots left while SU has gone back to back years scrambling to find an 11th game. So when you look at it does UND really need NDSU?


If we were a cup cake game we wouldnt have those issues. Tough problem to have.

[MarkyMark]

21 pages of comments:
1. No new information
2. No new ideas

This subject has become very boring to discuss. I can't imagine how uninteresting this must be for anyone who is not a fan of NDSU or UND.

This game will happen when both AD's recognize a benefit for their respective schools. Until then who cares what St. Peter thinks or any of us think for that matter?

[darell1976]

This is rich coming from a guy who's team has to travel a minimum of 1800 miles round trip to play at the nearest league venue. Unbelievable xlolx

And yet just less than a decade ago your team wanted to join the same conference (twice). So I find it funny when Bison fans bring up travel.

[UNDColorado]

Summit and MVFC are probably ideal for UND but we did not get a MVFC invite, so we went to the Big Sky. Outside of MPLS and the state, Denver has the highest concentration of UND Alums. Personally I love that we play out west...but if we ever get the oppty to play in the same conference as the other Dakota schools we should go that route.

[BisonBacker]

And yet just less than a decade ago your team wanted to join the same conference (twice). So I find it funny when Bison fans bring up travel.

We would have done it with SDSU which would have made the package more palatable for other BSC schools. Don't kid yourself you are the redheaded stepchild and the only reason you are in is you don't pose a threat for conference championships with any regularity. They wanted a bottom dwellar and they got one in UN_xlolx

[darell1976]

We would have done it with SDSU which would have made the package more palatable for other BSC schools. Don't kid yourself you are the redheaded stepchild and the only reason you are in is you don't pose a threat for conference championships with any regularity. They wanted a bottom dwellar and they got one in UN_xlolx

In case you forgot we were joined with USD until the midnight deal by the MVFC to get USD into their conference. As for a bottom dweller...sucks for Montana, Sac St, and SUU to lose to a bottom dweller.

[BisonBacker]

Come back when you have a winning record at the end of the season and we'll talk.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

We would have done it with SDSU which would have made the package more palatable for other BSC schools. Don't kid yourself you are the redheaded stepchild and the only reason you are in is you don't pose a threat for conference championships with any regularity. They wanted a bottom dwellar and they got one in UN_xlolx

BSC screwed up by not taking NDSU when it had the chance
UND screwed up by sticking with the name bull**** for so long.
BSC and UND screwed up by joining up.

UND is in a significantly worse position than NDSU. They can say whatever they want about the summit. NO WAY would I switch places with UND.

[darell1976]

BSC screwed up by not taking NDSU when it had the chance
UND screwed up by sticking with the name bull**** for so long.
BSC and UND screwed up by joining up.

UND is in a significantly worse position than NDSU. They can say whatever they want about the summit. NO WAY would I switch places with UND.

How did UND screw up when they had NO other option for a football conference? It was Independent, or Big Sky for football. Actually UND is in a great position, with the admission into the WAC for baseball all our sports has auto-bids.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

How did UND screw up when they had NO other option for a football conference? It was Independent, or Big Sky for football. Actually UND is in a great position, with the admission into the WAC for baseball all our sports has auto-bids.

Keep telling yourself that. Still wouldn't trade you for anything.

[344Johnson]

How did UND screw up when they had NO other option for a football conference? It was Independent, or Big Sky for football. Actually UND is in a great position, with the admission into the WAC for baseball all our sports has auto-bids.

UND really was in a tough spot. I think they could have gotten in the MVFC but who knows. The Summit could have and would have put a lot of pressure on the ol' MVFC to admit UND and just make some travel concessions to them I'm sure(perhaps subsidize one of the two possibly annual trips to the Dakota's).

[NoDak 4 Ever]

UND really was in a tough spot. I think they could have gotten in the MVFC but who knows. The Summit could have and would have put a lot of pressure on the ol' MVFC to admit UND and just make some travel concessions to them I'm sure(perhaps subsidize one of the two possibly annual trips to the Dakota's).

This. Why would you think that the MVFC would admit all the other Dakotas and NOT UND? The name thing hung over the whole situation, plain and simple.

[darell1976]

UND really was in a tough spot. I think they could have gotten in the MVFC but who knows. The Summit could have and would have put a lot of pressure on the ol' MVFC to admit UND and just make some travel concessions to them I'm sure(perhaps subsidize one of the two possibly annual trips to the Dakota's).

The SL didn't help UND football, as UND did plan a visit from the SL that Monday but when the BSC gave UND a home for all sports (including football) it was too good to pass up, plus the MVFC didn't contact USD until the SDBOR had to approve USD into the Big Sky. Now if both (SL and MVFC,) were to say today come join us, it would be tempting to reunite with the Dakota 3, and former NCC teams UNI, Omaha, and fellow NCHC member Denver, I can't really say what Faison and or Robert Kelley would do, remember Douple and Kelley were at a mini war of words surrounding the nickname issue. But that is another soap opera in itself.

[MplsBison]

I like playing YSU....would much rather play them every year then USD, WIU or UNC.

I don't particularly care for playing YSU. It's a very long way to travel for both schools and I'm sure neither would prefer it.

I get what you were saying, but obviously as you know both USD and WIU are in the MVFC now.


And besides, as I said multiple times, the Summit Football Conf would need a scheduling alliance with the MVFC. So probably NDSU would get to play YSU every two or three years on a rotating basis with the remaining MVFC teams.

Summit FC:
NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, WIU, UNC
(Non-football teams: Indy, Fort Wayne, Denver, Omaha)

Missouri Valley FC:
UNI, IL St, SIU, IN St, MO St, YSU
(Non-football teams: Bradley, Evansville, Loyola-Chicago, Witchita St)
(Pioneer football: Drake)


Works for me!

[344Johnson]

The SL didn't help UND football, as UND did plan a visit from the SL that Monday but when the BSC gave UND a home for all sports (including football) it was too good to pass up, plus the MVFC didn't contact USD until the SDBOR had to approve USD into the Big Sky. Now if both (SL and MVFC,) were to say today come join us, it would be tempting to reunite with the Dakota 3, and former NCC teams UNI, Omaha, and fellow NCHC member Denver, I can't really say what Faison and or Robert Kelley would do, remember Douple and Kelley were at a mini war of words surrounding the nickname issue. But that is another soap opera in itself.

The SL probably would have gotten UND into the Valley. At the very least UND probably could have taken the time to look at the two options unless the BSC wanted a yes or no immediately after the invite.

[MplsBison]

The number of games is a non-issue when the argument is about revenue--- playing in GF etc. That was a huge point in starting the iowa series back up and they found a formula that worked. They then had another formula when ISU added additional seats.

Well it's tough to beat the revenue generated from six, sold-out home games plus a paycheck from playing a BigXII or B1G team every season.

One of those things would have to give every other year in order for NDSU to travel to Grand Forks -- in an 11 game schedule.


What did Iowa and Iowa St work out for revenue?

[MplsBison]

Summit and MVFC are probably ideal for UND but we did not get a MVFC invite, so we went to the Big Sky. Outside of MPLS and the state, Denver has the highest concentration of UND Alums. Personally I love that we play out west...but if we ever get the oppty to play in the same conference as the other Dakota schools we should go that route.

So why not play in the same conference as your hockey rival and alumni hotspot (U of Denver) and convince Northern Colorado to come with you?

You'll both have an easier time in travel as well as getting auto-bids to the NCAA tournament. And it would definitely help out Summit baseball.

And then you'd have a Summit football conference on top of that.

[darell1976]

So why not play in the same conference as your hockey rival and alumni hotspot (U of Denver) and convince Northern Colorado to come with you?

You'll both have an easier time in travel as well as getting auto-bids to the NCAA tournament. And it would definitely help out Summit baseball.

And then you'd have a Summit football conference on top of that.

No way UNC would leave the BSC for the SL, for one thing the SL didn't want UNC for baseball, why would they want them for all other Olympic sports.

[MplsBison]

No way UNC would leave the BSC for the SL, for one thing the SL didn't want UNC for baseball, why would they want them for all other Olympic sports.

Why not? They'd have a much better travel partner in Denver than they do now in UND. Commercial flights from Denver to Omaha, Mpls, Chicago and Indy. (Hence why it was easy to add Denver to the Summit)

The Summit would want UNC for football and baseball, mainly, but would take them as an all-sports member without doubt.


You have no idea what you're talking about to say the Summit didn't want them for baseball. UNC chose WAC baseball to be with Big Sky member Sac St and UND quickly followed.

[FargoBison]

I don't particularly care for playing YSU. It's a very long way to travel for both schools and I'm sure neither would prefer it.

I get what you were saying, but obviously as you know both USD and WIU are in the MVFC now.


And besides, as I said multiple times, the Summit Football Conf would need a scheduling alliance with the MVFC. So probably NDSU would get to play YSU every two or three years on a rotating basis with the remaining MVFC teams.

Summit FC:
NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, WIU, UNC
(Non-football teams: Indy, Fort Wayne, Denver, Omaha)

Missouri Valley FC:
UNI, IL St, SIU, IN St, MO St, YSU
(Non-football teams: Bradley, Evansville, Loyola-Chicago, Witchita St)
(Pioneer football: Drake)


Works for me!

I feel this arrangement would make NDSU more committed to the Summit, which is exactly what I don't want.

[darell1976]

Why not? They'd have a much better travel partner in Denver than they do now in UND. Commercial flights from Denver to Omaha, Mpls, Chicago and Indy. (Hence why it was easy to add Denver to the Summit)

The Summit would want UNC for football and baseball, mainly, but would take them as an all-sports member without doubt.


You have no idea what you're talking about to say the Summit didn't want them for baseball. UNC chose WAC baseball to be with Big Sky member Sac St and UND quickly followed.

UNC joined the WAC on Dec 12, 2012, UND joined after being denied by the SL February 11, 2013, Oakland announced leaving (after years of saying they would) May 7th, 2013 . Since UNO is not eligible for playoffs (until 2016) the SL has 5 teams, why would they ignore UND's request to join if you say they (UND, UNC) should join for all sports?

http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/event/article/id/65690/


Asked about UND and baseball affiliation with the Summit, Douple said it was “discussed among some members” but “(UND) hadn’t indicated anything.”
“I know they were looking for a home for baseball, that was obvious because they joined the Big Sky,” Douple said.
UND head coach Jeff Dodson, however, told the Grand Forks Herald newspaper, “We had applied for the Summit but I never heard anything personally from them.”
Douple said Northern Colorado was discussed more on a league-wide basis.
“One of the concerns with Northern Colorado was the distance, it scared some of our members to add them as an affiliate,” Douple said.


Now what were you saying about how the SL would want UND and UNC??

[MplsBison]

I feel this arrangement would make NDSU more committed to the Summit, which is exactly what I don't want.

You seem to have an interesting and wildly misplaced vision for NDSU athletics.

I hope you're not holding out for the Missouri Valley invite. If you didn't notice, they replaced Creighton with Loyola-Chicago. That should tell you all you need to know about NDSU getting into that conference.

[MplsBison]

UNC joined the WAC on Dec 12, 2012, UND joined after being denied by the SL February 11, 2013, Oakland announced leaving (after years of saying they would) May 7th, 2013 . Since UNO is not eligible for playoffs (until 2016) the SL has 5 teams, why would they ignore UND's request to join if you say they (UND, UNC) should join for all sports?

http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/event/article/id/65690/



Now what were you saying about how the SL would want UND and UNC??

Completely apples and oranges. You know it too.

I'm fine if you want to stay in the Big Sky (and WAC for baseball). That's not an unreasonable affiliation for UND at all. Simply, it would be much better for UND in all aspects (and UNC too) to be in the Summit for all-sports, football, basketball and baseball.

I've detailed why that's true. If you have anything to say in that regard, I'm all ears.

[biggame]

I was one of those students when NDSU moved up. At that point NDSU wanted the game, UND said no, wanted us to die in transition.

UND did has good reasons for not playing the game but I personally thought they should have kept playing the game every year. IMO RT and the rest of the UND admin. screwed up by not continuing the series. To me this game is about a hell of a lot more than money and financial gain for the colleges. This was the biggest game of the year regardless of what else was happening with the teams. Now that both schools are beyond the transition and neither got any help from the other we should start playing again. Can we please moved past this petty crap and start playing because it is sad enough that haven't played in such a long stretch. The entire thing is sad and I get the feeling that most people who say they don't want it to resume never attended one of these games or they are just delusional.

[FargoBison]

You seem to have an interesting and wildly misplaced vision for NDSU athletics.

I hope you're not holding out for the Missouri Valley invite. If you didn't notice, they replaced Creighton with Loyola-Chicago. That should tell you all you need to know about NDSU getting into that conference.

I've long since given up on that and plus NDSU is a football school....it makes no sense being in a conference full of schools that have an opposite view. Hell the conference pretty much went out of its way to say how they feel about football by saying schools that play it won't even be considered for expansion.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

UND did has good reasons for not playing the game but I personally thought they should have kept playing the game every year. IMO RT and the rest of the UND admin. screwed up by not continuing the series. To me this game is about a hell of a lot more than money and financial gain for the colleges. This was the biggest game of the year regardless of what else was happening with the teams. Now that both schools are beyond the transition and neither got any help from the other we should start playing again. Can we please moved past this petty crap and start playing because it is sad enough that haven't played in such a long stretch. The entire thing is sad and I get the feeling that most people who say they don't want it to resume never attended one of these games or they are just delusional.

I think a lot of the people who say they don't want it never went to one. I was at the last one and it was crazy.

[MplsBison]

I've long since given up on that and plus NDSU is a football school....it makes no sense being in a conference full of schools that have an opposite view. Hell the conference pretty much went out of its way to say how they feel about football by saying schools that play it won't even be considered for expansion.

So then, what conference membership option would be precluded for NDSU by being members of that conference in football, basketball and baseball?

[darell1976]

Completely apples and oranges. You know it too.

I'm fine if you want to stay in the Big Sky (and WAC for baseball). That's not an unreasonable affiliation for UND at all. Simply, it would be much better for UND in all aspects (and UNC too) to be in the Summit for all-sports, football, basketball and baseball.

I've detailed why that's true. If you have anything to say in that regard, I'm all ears.

How??

You just said, "The Summit would want UNC for football and baseball, mainly, but would take them as an all-sports member without doubt." I just proved that wrong with Douple saying, “One of the concerns with Northern Colorado was the distance, it scared some of our members to add them as an affiliate,”

It does make sense for UND to be in the MVFC/Summit due to the footprint, however the footprint doesn't want UND in, its the members (MVFC) and Douple (SL)

[darell1976]

I think a lot of the people who say they don't want it never went to one. I was at the last one and it was crazy.

The last one I attended was the 2000 NDSU win in the Fargodome, even though UND lost it was still fun to be there in person and enjoy the excitement and hype leading up to that game.

[aces1180]

I think a lot of the people who say they don't want it never went to one. I was at the last one and it was crazy.

Again, I disagree.

I went to the last four Bison/UN_ games played in the Fargodome...I can easily name five regular-season games since then where the atmosphere and excitement was much better than any of those four.

I do think the atmosphere would be fun, but I doubt they would be any different from a recent playoff game.

[FargoBison]

So then, what conference membership option would be precluded for NDSU by being members of that conference in football, basketball and baseball?

If NDSU and UND join the same conference again...I'm not sure the state legislature will let NDSU break away again. Also with the limited number of schools in that conference NDSU would be much more attached to it. If NDSU left a six team conference it would lose its auto bid. Like I said NDSU would be much more attached to that conference than they are to either current conference.

I think NDSU might have to or want to move up for football. Summit football does nothing but get in the way of that.

[darell1976]

Again, I disagree.

I went to the last four Bison/UN_ games played in the Fargodome...I can easily name five regular-season games since then where the atmosphere and excitement was much better than any of those four.

I do think the atmosphere would be fun, but I doubt they would be any different from a recent playoff game.

Was it because UND beat NDSU in 3 of those 4 games you attended? Or because NDSU never won in the playoffs in that stretch (0-2)? NDSU football is back to the level they had in the 80's and early 90's (on top of the world), from around 1993-1994 until Craig Bohl was hired NDSU football was down (no home playoff games in the Fargodome until 2010) Craig Bohl re-created NDSU football and brought it back to life.

[aces1180]

Was it because UND beat NDSU in 3 of those 4 games you attended? Or because NDSU never won in the playoffs in that stretch (0-2)? NDSU football is back to the level they had in the 80's and early 90's (on top of the world), from around 1993-1994 until Craig Bohl was hired NDSU football was down (no home playoff games in the Fargodome until 2010) Craig Bohl re-created NDSU football and brought it back to life.

No, it was because NDSU has moved on to WAY bigger and better things. Some of the games I remember being more exciting than the four UND games I attended were in 2006-2007, before the playoffs were even a possibility.

When I was a kid and then a student, I loved UN_/NDSU games and thought they were the greatest. Now, I've experienced games I that all those thoughts out of the water.

I also disagree with your bolded statement...The Bison were one game away from the DII title game in 2000. I had a lot of fun going to games during that time, regardless of opponent. The UND game was always fun, even when we lost, now it would just be another big game like UNI, SDSU or any playoff matchup.

[darell1976]

No, it was because NDSU has moved on to WAY bigger and better things. Some of the games I remember being more exciting than the four UND games I attended were in 2006-2007, before the playoffs were even a possibility.

When I was a kid and then a student, I loved UN_/NDSU games and thought they were the greatest. Now, I've experienced games I that all those thoughts out of the water.

I also disagree with your bolded statement...The Bison were one game away from the DII title game in 2000. I had a lot of fun going to games during that time, regardless of opponent. The UND game was always fun, even when we lost, now it would just be another big game like UNI, SDSU or any playoff matchup.

It would be more exciting if they were in the same conference.

[MplsBison]

How??

You just said, "The Summit would want UNC for football and baseball, mainly, but would take them as an all-sports member without doubt." I just proved that wrong with Douple saying, “One of the concerns with Northern Colorado was the distance, it scared some of our members to add them as an affiliate,”

It does make sense for UND to be in the MVFC/Summit due to the footprint, however the footprint doesn't want UND in, its the members (MVFC) and Douple (SL)

You're being obtuse, which I can't control.

Affiliate baseball membership and all sports membership, especially including football membership in a new football conference which is only possible by including the team, are obviously, absurdly not even close to the same thing.

That goes for both cases.

[darell1976]

You're being obtuse, which I can't control.

Affiliate baseball membership and all sports membership, especially including football membership in a new football conference which is only possible by including the team, are obviously, absurdly not even close to the same thing.

That goes for both cases.

So even though Douple crushed your statement you think there is hope of membership for both the Bears and UND. Okay.

[MplsBison]

If NDSU and UND join the same conference again...I'm not sure the state legislature will let NDSU break away again. Also with the limited number of schools in that conference NDSU would be much more attached to it. If NDSU left a six team conference it would lose its auto bid. Like I said NDSU would be much more attached to that conference than they are to either current conference.

I think NDSU might have to or want to move up for football. Summit football does nothing but get in the way of that.

I share your enthusiasm for a potential move up to FBS but absolutely do not agree that being all sport members of the Summit would have anything to do with preventing that. Not in the slightest.

The ND state government would also not prevent NDSU from leaving.


Your imagination is getting the best of you.

[MplsBison]

So even though Douple crushed your statement you think there is hope of membership for both the Bears and UND. Okay.

It's a completely inapplicable statement to the possibility of UND or UNC becoming all sports members. Absurdly so.

I can't/won't help you if you can't/won't understand why. More likely, you're just being difficult.

[darell1976]

It's a completely inapplicable statement to the possibility of UND or UNC becoming all sports members. Absurdly so.

I can't/won't help you if you can't/won't understand why. More likely, you're just being difficult.

He didn't want UND because of the nickname then when the nickname issue was over he now didn't want UND baseball even when his conference has 5 teams and a 2 year grace period to get a new DI team or they lose their autobid. You think UND will try a third time to join? And UNC isn't moving so Douple will bring up travel issues.

[BisonBacker]

I think a lot of the people who say they don't want it never went to one. I was at the last one and it was crazy.

I've been going to NDSU games since the 70's. I've been to many a DII/NCC/UND game. None of them compared to SHSU(regular season game when SHSU had the stud QB) or the Georgia Southern games take your pick. Yes those were playoff games but playoff or not they blew any UND games out of the water that we ever played. Wofford, James Madison, SDSU Cal Poly games all were at least equal and in most cases again better than any UND game I'd been to. Most of the UND games became more of a ugly affair between fans. I like a rivalry but this was outright hatred by some. I have many a friend who are UND fans and if all fans on both sides were like them I'd be all in favor of that game being renewed but what I saw outside the dome and even in the dome from many and this went both ways it was ugly. I've never seen anything come close to that level of crap in any other games. Some will say that makes it better and to them I say you are clueless. A rivalry is one thing but that was far beyond rivalry. On the same subject regarding UND. This isn't smack it's just a fact and any UND fan who is not wearing kelly green glasses knows it true. They are first and foremost a hockey school. Nothing wrong with that if that's your thing but like another poster said in either this thread or another can't remember but regardless I'm all for NDSU playing and being in a conference where the members are Football first. NDSU is a football school. UND is a hockey school. That's not changing. They may field a competitive team now and then but they haven't historically nor will they be IMO a football power no matter how many drums their fans beat. It is what it is. I'd rather our rivals be on the same page with NDSU in that regard and to that end UND is not.

[aces1180]

I've been going to NDSU games since the 70's. I've been to many a DII/NCC/UND game. None of them compared to SHSU(regular season game when SHSU had the stud QB) or the Georgia Southern games take your pick. Yes those were playoff games but playoff or not they blew any UND games out of the water that we ever played. Wofford, James Madison, SDSU Cal Poly games all were at least equal and in most cases again better than any UND game I'd been to. Most of the UND games became more of a ugly affair between fans. I like a rivalry but this was outright hatred by some. I have many a friend who are UND fans and if all fans on both sides were like them I'd be all in favor of that game being renewed but what I saw outside the dome and even in the dome from many and this went both ways it was ugly. I've never seen anything come close to that level of crap in any other games. Some will say that makes it better and to them I say you are clueless. A rivalry is one thing but that was far beyond rivalry. On the same subject regarding UND. This isn't smack it's just a fact and any UND fan who is not wearing kelly green glasses knows it true. They are first and foremost a hockey school. Nothing wrong with that if that's your thing but like another poster said in either this thread or another can't remember but regardless I'm all for NDSU playing and being in a conference where the members are Football first. NDSU is a football school. UND is a hockey school. That's not changing. They may field a competitive team now and then but they haven't historically nor will they be IMO a football power no matter how many drums their fans beat. It is what it is. I'd rather our rivals be on the same page with NDSU in that regard and to that end UND is not.

2006 - SDSU, 2007 - SHSU, 2010 - SDSU, 2011- UNI, 2012 - YSU/SDSU All regular season game which had a better atmosphere than any of the UN_ games I attended...When you add in the playoffs, there's even more.

[MplsBison]

He didn't want UND because of the nickname then when the nickname issue was over he now didn't want UND baseball even when his conference has 5 teams and a 2 year grace period to get a new DI team or they lose their autobid. You think UND will try a third time to join? And UNC isn't moving so Douple will bring up travel issues.

The nickname issue is irrelevant now. And as I've tried to explain, joining as a baseball affiliate has nothing to do with joining as an all-sports member, especially when doing so enables the start of a football conference. The latter being exponentially more valuable than the former.

Try to convince yourself, I don't believe I can do it.

[RabidRabbit]

Except for Hockey, is there ANY SPORT at UND that there isn't a SUMMIT sponsored sport? Wrestling perhaps? Know a western conference looking to add members there too. Swimming Baseball Soccer Volleyball Track (Indoor/Outdoor), X-Country, basketball. Pick up two Football schools, then Summit has the minimum 6, but I'd rather it continue being a 10 or 12 member MVFC/Summit, altho with the expansion to 24, there is more AQ's available to have two champs. But 9 or 12 teams makes a much more secure set of 8 games.

[robsnotes4u]

Except for Hockey, is there ANY SPORT at UND that there isn't a SUMMIT sponsored sport? Wrestling perhaps? Know a western conference looking to add members there too. Swimming Baseball Soccer Volleyball Track (Indoor/Outdoor), X-Country, basketball. Pick up two Football schools, then Summit has the minimum 6, but I'd rather it continue being a 10 or 12 member MVFC/Summit, altho with the expansion to 24, there is more AQ's available to have two champs. But 9 or 12 teams makes a much more secure set of 8 games.

There hasn't been any wrestling at UND for many years


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[BisonFan02]

Except for Hockey, is there ANY SPORT at UND that there isn't a SUMMIT sponsored sport? Wrestling perhaps? Know a western conference looking to add members there too. Swimming Baseball Soccer Volleyball Track (Indoor/Outdoor), X-Country, basketball. Pick up two Football schools, then Summit has the minimum 6, but I'd rather it continue being a 10 or 12 member MVFC/Summit, altho with the expansion to 24, there is more AQ's available to have two champs. But 9 or 12 teams makes a much more secure set of 8 games.

This whole convo is ridiculous in the first place, but I will humor it. Youngstown heads east to the CAA for football...add UND to the Summit/MVFC. MVC stays the same in all sports sans football since Youngstown is in the Horizon, and the Summit adds a member.

MVFC:

NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
UNI
WIU
ISU red
SIU
ISU blue
Mo State

Summit:

NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
WIU
IUPUI
IPFW
Denver
UNO

[BisonFan02]

There hasn't been any wrestling at UND for many years


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Nope...Title IX...Hockey and DI football are killer.