B1G blackball on FCS teams is alive and well (article calls out NDSU by name)

[MplsBison]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/222235111.html?page=2&c=y




...
That's only part of the reason Commissioner Jim Delany is encouraging Big Ten schools to keep FCS schools off non-conference schedules. He said recently that games against FCS foes don't create enough excitement for players, fans and television networks.
While FCS-FBS matchups usually result in lopsided games that serve as little more than scrimmages to the FBS teams, the chance for the upset offers some intrigue. It happened eight times last week, and fans in Big Ten country will long remember Appalachian State's 34-32 victory at Michigan in 2007.
Last week's highest-profile upset came when North Dakota State, the defending FCS championm, shocked defending Big 12 champ Kansas State 24-21. The Bison defeated Minnesota in 2007 and 2011.

...

[kdinva]

How often does Delany change his diapers?

xbawlingx xviolinxxflaggedx

[Professor Chaos]

If that doesn't get your dander up this sure will:



"We don't have any penalties for those that don't," Delany said. "It's not like a violation of our rules. But everybody agreed when every game is televised, every game matters and the fans matter. Interest in those games is less. They're from another division. They have 20 less scholarships. It's like a junior college team playing against a high school team or a high school team playing against a JV team."


Is that why NDSU was the most expensive OOC ticket on Minnesota's home slate in 2011 ahead of FBS powers like New Mexico St and Miami (OH) that will surely impress fans and playoff committees alike?

[MplsBison]

Not to apologize for him, but I'm sure he's talking more about Ohio St, Penn St and Michigan than the rest of the teams in the conference. As long as one of those three gets selected into the playoff, he'll be happy.

[Laker]

If that doesn't get your dander up this sure will:
Is that why NDSU was the most expensive OOC ticket on Minnesota's home slate in 2011 ahead of FBS powers like New Mexico St and Miami (OH) that will surely impress fans and playoff committees alike?

Probably for the same reason that the dumb asses charge more for Iowa, Nebraska and Wisconsin games at the Bank. They figure that those teams will buy up all of the unused tickets since the Goofs can't even half fill up a brand new stadium. It is quite embarrassing.

There was more excitement from the NDSU fans when they came to the Duplicate Cities than the rest of the season. I would think that they would want to fill the place at least once a year. But after losing to NDSU and USD and barely getting by SDSU they wouldn't want to run the risk of massive cardiac arrest since the average age of the Gopher season ticket holders must be about 72.

[Hammerhead]

There are 33 FCS teams with a higher Sagarin rating than New Mexico State and 17 FCS teams rated higher than UNLV. NMSU and UNLV are on the goophers' schedule this year.


If that doesn't get your dander up this sure will:



Is that why NDSU was the most expensive OOC ticket on Minnesota's home slate in 2011 ahead of FBS powers like New Mexico St and Miami (OH) that will surely impress fans and playoff committees alike?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"We don't have any penalties for those that don't," Delany said. "It's not like a violation of our rules. But everybody agreed when every game is televised, every game matters and the fans matter. Interest in those games is less. They're from another division. They have 20 less scholarships. It's like a junior college team playing against a high school team or a high school team playing against a JV team."

It will be very, very interesting to figure out the Nielsen ratings on NDSU/K-State on Friday night vs. Buffalo/Ohio State this past weekend.

[Bisonator]

Unless they are willing to exclude the bottom third of FBS teams then they're justification is disingenuous at best. You can't tell me that the top 25 FCS teams would be worse for SOS, fan interest and TV then the bottom feeders in FBS!

Just wait, the B1G is going to find out right quick how costly this little unwritten "rule" will be when the FBS bottom dwellers start raping them and their SOS still sucks! Those $350-400K FCS games are going to start looking pretty good again!

[darell1976]

South Dakota wasn't a full DI member when they beat the Gophers they were still in transition, what does that say for their BCS team. I think this guy along with Alverez are giant douchbags, and they better not tell Iowa to buy out the NDSU game in 2015. I am so glad the SEC and PAC 12 among others ignored the FCS ban by the B1G.

[BisonBacker]

Not only that but if they have to travel even for a 2 for 1 deal to some bottom dweller FBS school with 7-15k fans at the game then still their argument is BS. I get that Minnesota playing the likes of SUU or NAU would generate little interest but look at what happened when NDSU went to the Dome to play them. The stands were full. SDSU and USD would generate a lot of interest just as UNI as all are regional. The argument for preperation for the playoffs is laughable. I like the gooph's and I live in Minnesota but I'm not delusional when it comes to just how good the Goophs are. They could just as well play in the MVFC they'd have better luck at getting a few wins than to play in the Big10

[MplsBison]

Not only that but if they have to travel even for a 2 for 1 deal to some bottom dweller FBS school with 7-15k fans at the game then still their argument is BS. I get that Minnesota playing the likes of SUU or NAU would generate little interest but look at what happened when NDSU went to the Dome to play them. The stands were full. SDSU and USD would generate a lot of interest just as UNI as all are regional. The argument for preperation for the playoffs is laughable. I like the gooph's and I live in Minnesota but I'm not delusional when it comes to just how good the Goophs are. They could just as well play in the MVFC they'd have better luck at getting a few wins than to play in the Big10

Speaking of which, this weekend Minnesota goes down to Las Cruces to play NMSU. I assume this was a 2-for-1 agreement. Because it's an away game to an independent, the BTN could not get the broadcast rights and so this game won't even be available live on the BTN channel. How's that for TV exposure? (it will be available on FSN tape delay and available live on BTN internet streaming)

[MplsBison]

Unless they are willing to exclude the bottom third of FBS teams then they're justification is disingenuous at best. You can't tell me that the top 25 FCS teams would be worse for SOS, fan interest and TV then the bottom feeders in FBS!

Just wait, the B1G is going to find out right quick how costly this little unwritten "rule" will be when the FBS bottom dwellers start raping them and their SOS still sucks! Those $350-400K FCS games are going to start looking pretty good again!

It's 100% about perception.

No doubt the actual strength of schedule would be comparable or even better playing top FCS teams over the worst teams from the Little Five conferences (and probably still better than the worst of the worst teams from the Big Five conferences).

But the perceived strength of schedule would undoubtedly be worse. Why? Because most people are lazy and will assume a lower division means lower quality. That's just how it works, I'm afraid. Maybe a selection committee wouldn't suffer the same mental disease, but do you want to risk that for your top teams? Probably not.


I don't think there's much question that for the home team (the B1G team) that fan interest is generally less for a FCS team than an FBS team (again, due to perception of lower quality). And then, rightfully, TV projections are based off fan interest from the home team.

[Hammerhead]

Fan interest from the home team won't change that much. Do you think a typical Iowa fan would stay home if they hosted Indiana State instead of New Mexico or UMass? Attendance would go up in many cases for the FCS teams in the Midwest/upper Midwest that have larger fan bases that don't have to travel very far to visit a Big 10 school.

[darell1976]

Besides NDSU at Iowa in 2015 does any other FCS have B1G games coming up??

[bostonspider]

Besides NDSU at Iowa in 2015 does any other FCS have B1G games coming up??

Richmond has a game at Maryland scheduled for 2015.

[dgtw]

Michigan State plays Jax State next year.

[MplsBison]

Fan interest from the home team won't change that much. Do you think a typical Iowa fan would stay home if they hosted Indiana State instead of New Mexico or UMass? Attendance would go up in many cases for the FCS teams in the Midwest/upper Midwest that have larger fan bases that don't have to travel very far to visit a Big 10 school.

Game attendance and TV viewership are two different things.

I would tend to agree that those people buying season tickets and are willing to come to Iowa City for the experience of tailgating and going to the games generally don't care who the team is playing.

People watching on TV can afford to be much more fickle. Especially people who weren't planning to watch the game.


Hence, why TV networks (ie, the BTN) would like to see fewer FCS games scheduled and more FBS teams on their time slots.

[ST_Lawson]

Besides NDSU at Iowa in 2015 does any other FCS have B1G games coming up??

Western Illinois plays Minnesota (and UNLV) this year, Wisconsin and possibly Northwestern (haven't seen 100% confirmation on that one lately though) in 2014, and Illinois in 2015.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Game attendance and TV viewership are two different things.

Hence, why TV networks (ie, the BTN) would like to see fewer FCS games scheduled and more FBS teams on their time slots.

Find those ratings yet? I'll wait.

[clenz]

Besides NDSU at Iowa in 2015 does any other FCS have B1G games coming up??

UNI has Iowa next year and in 18

quando omni flunkus moritati

[Ronin]

It will be very, very interesting to figure out the Nielsen ratings on NDSU/K-State on Friday night vs. Buffalo/Ohio State this past weekend.

Right on the money. I too would like to see the numbers as I find it much more interesting to watch an "upset" than two mediocre (insert 90% of B1G teams here) FBS teams play.

[Twentysix]

Besides NDSU at Iowa in 2015 does any other FCS have B1G games coming up??

NDSU plays Iowa in 2016.

It sounds like NDSU will be playing either Arizona or Arizona State in 2015, but it has not been finalized.

[darell1976]

NDSU plays Iowa in 2016.

It sounds like NDSU will be playing either Arizona or Arizona State in 2015, but it has not been finalized.

My bad. I hope it's not backed out by Delany and the B1G. A trip to Arizona or ASU would be a fun trip and an easy one for people flying Alegiant.

[DoubleE]

this is very very simple.

the B1G owns 49% of the BTN. Most B1G vs FCS games would be on the BTN. the B1G wants to increase ratings to increase revenue especially with the addition of New York City and Washington DC to the television market. Its why the B1G is going to a 9 game conference schedule.

like it or not but fanbases for FCS Schools arnt as large as many FBS schools with some exceptions.

[Bisonator]

It's 100% about perception.

No doubt the actual strength of schedule would be comparable or even better playing top FCS teams over the worst teams from the Little Five conferences (and probably still better than the worst of the worst teams from the Big Five conferences).

But the perceived strength of schedule would undoubtedly be worse. Why? Because most people are lazy and will assume a lower division means lower quality. That's just how it works, I'm afraid. Maybe a selection committee wouldn't suffer the same mental disease, but do you want to risk that for your top teams? Probably not.


I don't think there's much question that for the home team (the B1G team) that fan interest is generally less for a FCS team than an FBS team (again, due to perception of lower quality). And then, rightfully, TV projections are based off fan interest from the home team.

Again, what are they going to use to determine SOS? An actual rating system or just perception? I still haven't seen any actual system explained yet. Am I missing it?

What are the TV ratings between a top tier FCS/B1G game and a bottom feeder FBS/B1G game? I'm guessing the difference is a wash. Heck I don't even have the B1G network and don't know anyone who does. I'm guessing UM's stadium isn't full when they play a NMSU. It would be against NDSU. Now, how much more are you paying for the FBS matchup? Is it really going to pencil out in the long run?

The B1G can do all of this other stuff, but until they actual improve their own teams it isn't going to do them any good! Get your bottom teams back to respectability and you won't have these problems!

[Bisonator]

this is very very simple.

the B1G owns 49% of the BTN. Most B1G vs FCS games would be on the BTN. the B1G wants to increase ratings to increase revenue especially with the addition of New York City and Washington DC to the television market. Its why the B1G is going to a 9 game conference schedule.

like it or not but fanbases for FCS Schools arnt as large as many FBS schools with some exceptions.

Rather then adding markets with piss poor teams maybe they should add better programs and let the markets find the good games!

[DoubleE]

new york and DC have tons of B1G alum and now the BTN gets $1 a household instead of $.10 for out of market homes.

This is why Maryland and Rutgers were added (that and you have to be a member of the aau to be in the B1G) its also why Virginia and UNC will probably be #15 and #16 in the B1G in 5-10 years

[dgtw]

A Big Ten team vs a team from the MAC isn't going to excite me any more than Big Ten vs. FCS.

[BisonTru]

new york and DC have tons of B1G alum and now the BTN gets $1 a household instead of $.10 for out of market homes.

This is why Maryland and Rutgers were added (that and you have to be a member of the aau to be in the B1G) its also why Virginia and UNC will probably be #15 and #16 in the B1G in 5-10 years

Is the ny dc area going to be more interested in watching unlv @ minn, New Mexico st @ minn or ndsu @ minn. I think it would be a wash. But if Minnesota Iowa Wisconsin want to schedule ndsu they are almost guaranteed a sell out and probably a better opponent then bottom fbs programs. Plus your not going to have to shell out the cash to get us to come.

[SUPharmacist]

Is the ny dc area going to be more interested in watching unlv @ minn, New Mexico st @ minn or ndsu @ minn. I think it would be a wash. But if Minnesota Iowa Wisconsin want to schedule ndsu they are almost guaranteed a sell out and probably a better opponent then bottom fbs programs. Plus your not going to have to shell out the cash to get us to come.

You are focusing to much on MN. NYC has sizeable alumni bases from a lot of Big Ten schools, and to some it will make a difference whether it is a bottom feeder FBS school that they have heard of as opposed to an FCS program they don't know. I don't like it, but it's true. The SOS argument is garbage, but the financials are the driver. Even if they have to give a higher payday, they want to go this way.

[SUPharmacist]

new york and DC have tons of B1G alum and now the BTN gets $1 a household instead of $.10 for out of market homes.

This is why Maryland and Rutgers were added (that and you have to be a member of the aau to be in the B1G) its also why Virginia and UNC will probably be #15 and #16 in the B1G in 5-10 years

They want programs respected academically, but I do not know if they will continue with just AAU. Nebraska isn't AAU now, and there has not been a push for them to get back to it or leave the conference.

[DoubleE]

They want programs respected academically, but I do not know if they will continue with just AAU. Nebraska isn't AAU now, and there has not been a push for them to get back to it or leave the conference.

they lost aau membership after being accepted in the conference, if they were not aau at the time of the invite they wouldn't have been invited

[skinny_uncle]

Besides NDSU at Iowa in 2015 does any other FCS have B1G games coming up??

SIU has Purdue next year and Indiana the following year.

[MplsBison]

Looks like Kolpack (Fargo Forum) picked it up:

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/411280/group/Sports/

[darell1976]

Looks like Kolpack (Fargo Forum) picked it up:

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/411280/group/Sports/


Moreover, this hubbub will simply go away because 60 percent of the Big Ten has no chance of winning a national title in the next 50 years and only Ohio State has a legitimate chance of making the four-team College Football Playoff that starts in 2014 in the next five years.Enough said about the strength of schedule argument. Try to get your six bowl-eligible wins and don’t worry about reaching the Final Four, it’s not going to happen.


So true. Just split from the NCAA and shut up Delany.

[MplsBison]

Well, Kolpack is correct if you narrowly focus on winning the games.

The B1G "wins big" in another important way, every year: money. I feel he's protecting or proactively looking to improve that aspect much more than winning on the field.

[AmsterBison]

When somebody shows me that NDSU v Minnesota has lower TV ratings than NMSU v Minnesota, then maybe I'll buy the "It's about TV ratings" arguments. You know what makes for good TV? Full stadiums and an interesting story line.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So I guess Mpls never did find those Nielsen ratings...

[MplsBison]

So I guess Mpls never did find those Nielsen ratings...

I know you originally addressed Jim Delany with your request. Apparently you've transferred that request to me. For no reason.

As to the spirit of your request, I see absolutely nothing wrong for the B1G commissioner to be calling for something that he thinks will help the perception of the B1G.

[Bisonoline]

I know you originally addressed Jim Delany with your request. Apparently you've transferred that request to me. For no reason.

As to the spirit of your request, I see absolutely nothing wrong for the B1G commissioner to be calling for something that he thinks will help the perception of the B1G.

All he is doing is deflecting where the real problem sits. The Big 10s problem isnt that they play FCS teams the problem is that FCS teams are more competitive now and makes the Big 10 look bad. Not only that when some teams schedule St Marys school for the blind you cant expect great viewership. Even form the most die hard fan. The Big Ten needs to up its game. Pretty simple.

[Professor Chaos]

Well, Kolpack is correct if you narrowly focus on winning the games.

The B1G "wins big" in another important way, every year: money. I feel he's protecting or proactively looking to improve that aspect much more than winning on the field.
If they are winning the big game of money why are they the only conference in America "proactively improving" the conference by shutting out FCS schools?

[Twentysix]

1. Lose to FCS
2. Stop scheduling FCS
3. ???
4. Profit.

This is pretty basic stuff.

[MplsBison]

All he is doing is deflecting where the real problem sits. The Big 10s problem isnt that they play FCS teams the problem is that FCS teams are more competitive now and makes the Big 10 look bad. Not only that when some teams schedule St Marys school for the blind you cant expect great viewership. Even form the most die hard fan. The Big Ten needs to up its game. Pretty simple.

I think you're entirely correct.

It used to be that playing I-AA teams was an easy win that would go towards a bowl game, automatically. You could throw a few hundred thousand at them, crush them and get the easy win. That appears not to be the case anymore, at least depending on which team you play.

[MplsBison]

If they are winning the big game of money why are they the only conference in America "proactively improving" the conference by shutting out FCS schools?

They are winning big in the money game. There's no 'if' about that.

They were also the first conference to have their own cable TV channel. Someone has to be the leader.

[Professor Chaos]

They are winning big in the money game. There's no 'if' about that.

They were also the first conference to have their own cable TV channel. Someone has to be the leader.
Except in this case nobody is following. It's nothing but arrogance IMO. Arrogance to think that they're the mighty Big Ten and if they do something everyone else should follow. Arrogance to think that they're above playing FCS teams. And as others have mentioned, it could very well be arrogance veiling trepidation because they don't want their crappy teams embarrassing themselves. Arrogance, cowardice, and prostitution; the tenets of Big Ten football.

[Bisonoline]

Except in this case nobody is following. It's nothing but arrogance IMO. Arrogance to think that they're the mighty Big Ten and if they do something everyone else should follow. Arrogance to think that they're above playing FCS teams. And as others have mentioned, it could very well be arrogance veiling trepidation because they don't want their crappy teams embarrassing themselves. Arrogance, cowardice, and prostitution; the tenets of Big Ten football.

You got a lot of butt hurt going on.

[Catatonic]

They are winning big in the money game. There's no 'if' about that.

They were also the first conference to have their own cable TV channel. Someone has to be the leader.

The SEC opted to solidify its relationship with the Networks before launching its own cable TV channel, a move that was less lucrative on the front end but has paid huge dividends in terms of brand building. SEC games dominate ratings, and when SEC TV is launched next year they will dominate in the money game. Not sure I'd call the BIG the leader.

[DoubleE]

SEC Network is owned by ESPN

the Pac 12 Network is 100% owned by the Pac 12

the BTN is 49% owned by the B1G and 51% owned by Fox

interesting which way works best in the future

[caribbeanhen]

Game attendance and TV viewership are two different things
.

when will they start making "virtual" attendance part of the numbers? (the people watching online)

[Professor Chaos]

You got a lot of butt hurt going on.
If it makes you feel better to call it that feel free. It won't change my opinion that this last set of comments by Delaney epitomizes his and the Big Ten's arrogance.

[MplsBison]

Except in this case nobody is following. It's nothing but arrogance IMO. Arrogance to think that they're the mighty Big Ten and if they do something everyone else should follow. Arrogance to think that they're above playing FCS teams. And as others have mentioned, it could very well be arrogance veiling trepidation because they don't want their crappy teams embarrassing themselves. Arrogance, cowardice, and prostitution; the tenets of Big Ten football.

Prostitution? That's a little dramatic, easy now.

This isn't a hard B1G rule (yet). It's a suggestion from the commissioner and again I think it's more applicable for the B1G teams that are going to be early front-runners into the FBS playoff. That would be basically your Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan type teams. The rest of the B1G needs bowl games more than they need to worry about their strength of schedule, so I don't think the conference is going to slap them with a fine or anything like that if they continue to play FCS teams.


As for nobody following them, let's wait and see what happens after a couple years of the selection committee picking teams for the playoff. As I've been saying since the playoff has been announced -- all it's going to take is one major program getting shafted by the selection committee and the difference between them and the last team in being that they played an FCS team. That's all it's going to take.

[ysubigred]

Nice article in the Y-town paper (on-line) today about this subject..

YSU hurt by Big Ten dropping FCShttp://media3.vindy.com/img/photos/2013/09/11/09112013-ysu.1_t180.jpg?d7845ce1117d86242961692c3462052fb8f 99b7e (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/photos/2013/sep/11/71909/)
Photo by: AP FILE PHOTO SEPT. 2, 2011
Youngstown State’s Jamaine Cook, left, stiff -arms Michigan State’s Johnny Adams during a game in East Lansing, Mich. Michigan State won, 28-6. The teams will meet again Saturday in East Lansing.

By Joe Scalzo (http://www.vindy.com/staff/joe-scalzo/)
[email protected]
YOUNGSTOWN
When Youngstown State played Michigan State two years ago, defensive tackle D.J. Moss got to be on the field and in the locker room. He even went through warm-ups.
But, thanks to a training camp concussion, he never got in the game.
“It kind of left a sour taste in my mouth because I haven’t got to play out there” at Spartan Stadium, Moss said. “So I’m excited for the opportunity.”
If Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany has his way, it’ll be the Penguins’ last.
This weekend, YSU will travel to East Lansing to play in what could be the second-to-last Big Ten game in school history. Delany is pushing for conference schools to drop FCS teams from their schedules, saying those contests are “like a junior college team playing against a high school team or a high school team playing against a JV team.’’
YSU coach Eric Wolford, who coached at Big Ten-member Illinois from 2007-08, has repeatedly expressed his disappointment over the Big Ten’s decision, but said on Tuesday that Delany’s comments didn’t frustrate him.
“I always say everyone is entitled to their opinion,” Wolford said, choosing his words carefully. “I really don’t even think about it.
“It’s just what he felt like he needed to say.”
YSU is 0-5 against Big Ten schools, including a 28-6 loss to the Spartans in 2011. But the Penguins are 20-25-1 against FBS schools all-time, including a 31-17 win over Pitt last year.
http://imagec18.247realmedia.com/RealMedia/ads/Creatives/default/empty.gif (http://oascentral.vindy.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/vindy/sports/1694619328/Middle/default/empty.gif/783374505956487451683441415a3471?x)http://t.mookie1.com/rsp?min_age=2&rurl=http://oascentral.vindy.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream.cap?c=mooker%26e=7d%26va=[MOOKIE]_[MOOKIE_AGE]http://t.mookie1.com/cms?min_age=2&rurl=http://ib.adnxs.com/mapuid?member=1471%26user=[MOOKIE]
“Getting the win against Pitt last year definitely gave us confidence,” Moss said. “It lets us know we can play with teams of that caliber.
“I’ve been blessed with the opportunity to play in these big games. It’s unfortunate [they’re going to stop] because I would like to see these young guys get more opportunities to play schools that I had an opportunity to play. But you can’t really do much about it.”
Overall, Missouri Valley teams are 2-42 against Big Ten schools, including an 0-4 mark this season. But three of this year’s games were close: Purdue 20, Indiana State 14; Iowa 28, Missouri State 14; and Illinois 42, Southern Illinois 34.
FCS schools already have 10 wins over FBS schools this season, matching last year’s total in just two weeks.
While those wins are valuable — both for playoff purposes and the overall reputation of a program — Wolford said just having those games on the schedule is invaluable.
“It’s opportunities for young people to have experiences they wouldn’t normally get,” Wolford said. “These kids don’t get a chance to play in front of 90,000 or 100,000 people and go against coaches you see on ESPN all the time.
“It’s a great experience for the kids and we recruit to that.”
YSU will play at Illinois next season and had a contract to play at Ohio State in 2015 before the Buckeyes were forced to cancel when the conference added Rutgers and Maryland, expanding the conference schedule to nine games. Instead, the Penguins are close to a deal with Pitt in 2015.
“That’s a great experience for a kid who grew up a Steelers fan his whole life to get a chance to play at Heinz Field,” Wolford said. “If you’re not good enough to go to Pitt, it’s nice to at least be able to say you got a chance to go over there and play.”

http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/sep/11/big-tension/