UNH @ Dartmouth

[Gordon Shumway]

As you can see from my post count I am pretty new here as I just recently found the site. I don’t know what thread starting protocol may exist, but here is my first.

I started this thread because of a comment I read about Dartmouth in a different thread. Frankly, I was mortified when a UNH fan asked the question “Has Dartmouth ever had a decent team?” Being away from NH for so long, I never realized the younger fans had no sense of the meaning of this game to a lot of “old-timers” like me. I hate to date myself, but my first UNH game as a freshman was a loss to Colby College:eek: back in the dark ages (1966). Back then we had gotten pummeled by Dartmouth every few years since 1901. From 1901-1972 the Big Green were 16-0 against us, and had given up a total of 43 points over that span. What hurt the most was the condescending attitude of the “rich boys” from the other side of the state. Trust me in that the attitude of the Ivy Leaguers toward that “state school” was something that would stick in your craw the rest of your life.

Fortunately UNH emerged from the dark ages and finally managed a tie in 1973, and the first win was the next year:hurray: . Since that first win we have gone 14-1-1 against Dartmouth, with the last loss in 1976. You can rest assured I have enjoyed every one of those wins immensely. Some may say it is time to get over it, but this is the one game for me that the ‘Cats cannot score enough points:asswhip: no matter how lopsided the game is.

Now that my vindictive, irrational rant is over, is it true the fans of today just see this as a “why do we play these guys” game? I mean they still are an in-state rival.

On the surface it seems this is a game where UNH can name the score. Anyone have any insight into Dartmouth’s chances beyond that hopefully not too optimistic sentiment.

BTW I live 40 minutes from Florida Field and have Gator season tickets, but I remain first and foremost a Wildcat fan and love I-AA football.

[Sam Adams]

Interesting post and perspective. Back in the day all the New England teams seemed to play their local Ivy. UMass hasn't played an Ivy since we beat Harvard in '88. I think the animosity/snobbery is no longer as prevalent as it was back in the 60's and I'm certain UMass would be happy to play an Ivy again but I just don't think the feeling is mutual at least as far as Harvard is concerned.

[Umass74]

Back in the 50's and 60's, before the Ivies reduced scholarships, they routinely beat up on the land-grant schools of the old Yankee Conference.

The Ivy schools recruited nationally. UMass recruited in New England with an occasional player from far-off New York or Northern New Jersey.

The Ivies also had a brief period where they were admitting black athletes to prove how egalitarian they were. Remember when Calvin Hill played for Yale?

Dartmouth was a power in the Ivy League. The Big Green and Penn were the two "jock" schools.

The shoe is on the other foot nowadays and only Brown and Dartmouth have the balls to play A10 schools.

[TheValleyRaider]

I can understand your sentiments about always wanting to run up the score on an old rival. Part of what makes sports just so darn fun :thumbsup:

This is a game where UNH should be able to name their score. Having just played Dartmouth, and having seen the 'Cats firsthand last season, I can tell you that if UNH puts effort into it, they will roll. The only strength the Green showed me was being able to hit an uncovered reciever underneath. They managed about 200 yds. of offense and while we're certainly not a pushover of a defensive unit, UNH shutting down Northwestern as they did is just a wee bit more impressive. Basically the only reason the score was only 28-7 was that it took our offense 3 quarters to get on track. From what I know of the Wildcats, they don't quite have the same offensive inconsistancies. The only thing that could potentially save Dartmouth is if they play this like a rivalry game. If they come out with that kind of attitude, that beating UNH will make their season, they could hang tough for longer than you'd like. But even then they probably don't have enough for the win. Just an observers thoughts:twocents:

[UNH_ORACLE]

Gordon,

it's great to have your wisdom and knowledge of UNH football here. Coach Mac always told us to see the future we had to stand on the shoulders of those before us, it was those statements that molded our team and it is really true, you can't know where you're going until you know where you've been. Coach Mac makes sure the boys know how bad Dartmouth owned us, but yes they're still are the oblivious newcomers.

[UNHknowledge]

Good post Gordon. I too am a recent UNH alum (football player) and I can second what the Oracle has said about Coach Mac educating us on the rivalry. As for the Gators, I root for them too when I can. Former UNH QB Ryan Day is a coach there.

[UNHWILDCATS05]

Hey Gordon,

Great Post!!!

It is great to see another UNH alum posting on here especially one with such experience...

I was out in Chicago two weekends ago for the NU game and got to meet a bunch of UNH Alums ranging in all ages... The gentlemen sitting behind me said he had been watching UNH foootball for 60 years and by far the Northwestern win was the BEST he had ever seen....

Quite an incredible experience to be there and meet some of the people that make UNH FOOTBALL great!!... and it is just as good to be able to come on here and talk to people like yourself who actually represent the proud history of the program...

Great to have you aboard and I look forward to hearing what you have to say!!

GO CATS

[RadMann]

Penn plays Villanova regularly so they are not afraid to play A10 programs as implied...

[Granite]

Good post, Gordon, good to have you posting on the board - its good to see Wildcat nation responding and posting here on AGS. Great information on the rivalry between UNH and Dartmouth - lots of good information there, and your post gives a nice perspective on the rivalry and what it meant to players and fans of both schools in its heyday.

I think I was the one who asked the question, and I actually didn't mean it to be snark - it was a legitimate question. I probably should have done some research on Dartmouth-UNH football history before posting, but it was kind of a throw-away post in a larger thread.

I'm not sure I'd qualify as a "younger fan" (age is relative, I guess), but I am fairly new to I-AA. My football roots are actually in I-A, in the Big 10 and SEC - I have degrees from schools in both conferences, but really developed a deep affection for I-AA and UNH when I moved to New Hampshire in 2001, to the extent that I really could care less about what happens in the BCS leagues outside of my alma mater/s. Part of my connection and education to the larger world of I-AA has come through this board, which I've been reading and posting at since 2003 (one of only 2 UNH fans around back then!)

Anyway, since you called me out, I figured I'd own up to the original post and let you know where I was coming from - I'm not an "oblivious newcomer" - but from recent history, it would appear that UNH has dominated the series (undefeated in the last 15 games, 6-0 since resuming the rivalry, etc.). Hence the question about Dartmouth's football past, and in my original post I did say that I would love to see the series really mean something, because it would be an interesting rivalry game (as you pointed out in your post).

Thanks again for the info - that's essentially what I was looking for when I asked the original question! ;)

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Gordon, I started UNH two years after you and you described prefectly my recollections of the UNH-Dartmouth relationship. And it has stuck in my craw the rest of my life!!!!!

Looking at a media guide, I saw that the first UNH win over Dartmouth was in 1973. I was still around, taking the one last course I needed to graduate. Let's just say that the party scene in Durham was pretty robust that Saturday night!! :nod: And IIRC UNH won that game on a 100+ yard kickoff return for a 10-9 final. Then we didn't play in the 1974 and 1975 season. So, when Sean was playing, UNH had hardly started any domination of Dartmouth. Those condescending attitudes were still rampant in Hanover especially since they viewed the 1973 win as a fluke. Sean was weaned during a period when rival numero uno was UMass and Dartmouth wasn't too far behind. Maine was the homecoming opponent every other year (and through 1974 Vermont was the homecoming opponent in the other years). Yeah, it was homecoming, but I never sensed the same intensity as UMass and Dartmouth generated.

Gordon, we probably should be over it by now, but I sure understand if you're not because I'm not. A couple of years ago, they started a NH Basketball Classic at the Verizon Center in Manchester. It was a tripleheader with a D-III game between Keene State and Plymouth State, a D-II game between St. Anselms and Southern NH Univ, followed by a D-I matchup between UNH and Dartmouth. The first year it was UNH's home game. Despite a very nasty snow storm they drew like 3.5K which was pretty darn good and everybody was looking forward to the 2nd Annual. Well, good ole Dartmouth wouldn't "give up" their home game the following year and the event died. That was enough for me to keep my dislike of Dartmouth simmering just fine.

On the plane ride to Chicago, I actually sat next to young Dartmouth grad. The conversation turned to football and he said that yeah Dartmouth hadn't beat UNH "in a while". Of course I quickly replied "before 1976"! He didn't have too much to say after that!!!! xlolx xlolx xlolx

Back in those days, the Ivies all played their local "State U" or a local rival on I believe the last Saturday of September -- UConn played Yale (always at Yale Bowl of course), URI-Brown, UMass-Harvard, Rutgers-Princeton, and with less certainty Colgate-Cornell, Lehigh-Penn and with a SWAG Lafayette-Columbia. That was a huge Saturday and it got a lot of publicity. But of course when the Ivies started losing then the series started to die.

And I can say from experience what a big deal it was in CT. I went to a couple of the games at the Yale Bowl just to party with co-workers! My memory says 35K for those games in New Haven. It was the one UConn football game that actually attracted a huge following!

I've heard Sean speak enough times to know he will have the team focused and fired up for this game! But as much as I'd love to drop a huge number on the Hanover Cake Eaters, I'm afraid they'll not renew the series when this contract expires. It was OK for State U to lose all those years, but not for an Ivy! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

BTW Gordon, there is another UNH poster (UNH 1999) on the forum who lives north of Gainesville up in Monticello (a little east of Tallahassee).

[Umass74]

Penn plays Villanova regularly so they are not afraid to play A10 programs as implied...


Correct. Forgot about Penn. Sorry! :o

[Gordon Shumway]

It's great to hear the respect that Coach Mac seems to have for the history of the program. I'm sure being a former player gives him important historical perspective to draw from. It is also comforting to know not everyone has forgotten the past regarding Dartmouth. I was stunned when I read a comment asking if they had any kind of tradition.

As for you Umass guys....great to hear from you, even if you did administer more than your share of ass whoopin's back then as well. I remember you guys ruling the old Yankee Conference with an iron fist in those days. We had a great deal of respect for your program.

It's interesting to see how Maine seems to have evolved as the coference rivalry game at the end of the season. I remember when we always played Umass the last game of the year. Not sure if Umass ever felt it was a real rivalry, but we always considered it the biggest conference rivalry.

Times have really changed since the days of the six New England land-grants making up the Yankee Conference. Even Vermont played football back then.

[Harvard Worship]

Correct. Forgot about Penn. Sorry! :o

Harvard played Northeastern every year 2001-2004 (& maybe some before then too). Northeastern is in the A-10, no? And I think they beat UNH & UMass a few of those years...

[UNH_ORACLE]

Good post Gordon. I too am a recent UNH alum (football player) and I can second what the Oracle has said about Coach Mac educating us on the rivalry. As for the Gators, I root for them too when I can. Former UNH QB Ryan Day is a coach there.


Sorry to joke you out Knowledge, but where is your knowledge??? Day is a coach at Temple now. You better sharpen up your tools before we have to take away your name.

[Gordon Shumway]

Granite.....Believe me, I wasn't calling anyone out. I was just stunned to think that the rivalry had completely lost its significance. I managed to incorrectly assume that you were perhaps a recent graduate. My apologies on that, and now I can certainly understand how you wouldn't be familiar with the history. But now with the history lesson you don't have to feel guilty about wanting the Cats to run up the score.

[Sam Adams]

The UMass UNH game is still a big rivalry for UMass. You're correct that UMass/UNH was traditionally the last game or 2d to last game of the season in the 60's. The MVP of the UMass/UNH game takes home the Bill Knight Trophy (for awhile there we thought it was going to be renamed the Jerry Azumah Trophy after the great Wildcat star). This year marks the 67th edition of the MA/NH border war. I believe UMass has only played URI and ukon more times than UNH.

Good luck against Dartmouth, UNH should be heavily favored, but anything can happen on any given saturday....just ask georgia southern and delaware. :D

[Granite]

Granite.....Believe me, I wasn't calling anyone out. I was just stunned to think that the rivalry had completely lost its significance. I managed to incorrectly assume that you were perhaps a recent graduate. My apologies on that, and now I can certainly understand how you wouldn't be familiar with the history. But now with the history lesson you don't have to feel guilty about wanting the Cats to run up the score.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Seriously, no worries - I just wanted to own up to the original post and explain where it came from. I wasn't trying to be intentionally oblivious, it just came out that way! :)

I know I've benefitted a lot from UNH_Alum_in_CT's perspectives, so I'm looking forward to having another voice speaking for UNH's past history and tradition here.

As for the current perspective on the Dartmouth-UNH rivalry - I'm not sure that it means much at all to newer fans or to students today, unfortunately. I think that most would consider Maine and UMass to be the two "big" games, and I think that UNH-Maine has as much to do with the rivalry in hockey as anything. Hearing about the history of Dartmouth-UNH, along with the socio-economic class implications, really adds some color to that game for me.

[Gordon Shumway]

Alum_In_CT......Some great stuff there. I must be getting senile as I could have sworn we tied them the year before actually beating them. However, I do remember the 10-9 game even if I got the year wrong. I had already graduated, but was there for the game. One thing I am sure I remember correctly is that we consumed large quantities of beer that night.

I was going to check that tie game I dreamt up on the UNH website, but all the archived data disappeared when they went to the new website. I Emailed the University earlier today, and they responded assuring me all the archived data would be back shortly.

I noticed you recalled the Umass rivalry the same as I do, which makes me feel better.

[RadMann]

It will be interesting to see if a version of the old Yankee conference re-emerges when the A-10/CAA gets too big. It is already too large from my perspective and will only get worse with Old Dominion adding football in a few years. The New England programs really should be in their own conference since the rivalries are natural given the regional proximity. Some major changes will be going in over the next few years in my opinion which will be advantageous for all football programs involved.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Gordon,

I'm going to join you on that senility train!! xlolx I should have gone with my first instinct and not changed what I originally wrote -- I had already graduated by Sept. '73! :bang: I recall being at work listening to the game on the radio and going bananas! The atmosphere in Durham was still electric when I got there after work!!! I wish I had seen that game so I could compare the experience with seeing the wins at Rutgers and Northwestern.

Speaking of socio-economic stuff, UNH and NH were both very different back in those days. UNH was probably 80% NH kids compared to the just over 50% today. And the state of NH was significantly more rural because the southern tier had yet to become a bedroom community for Greater Boston. That just added to the "rich boys" "condescending attitude".

Looking at the media guide again Gordon, I see that your first win over UMass was the same as mine -- 1968. UNH didn't beat UMass again until 1975 when they played with a D-II playoff bid on the line. Along the way, they won 48-7, 24-14, 33-7, 42-7, 28-7 and 27-17! UMass was regularly playing Boston College and Holy Cross who were both playing a major Eastern schedule in those days. Winning that 1975 game was a huge step forward for the UNH Football program.

Glad to have you onboard Gordon! Between our two old memories, maybe we can get the stories correct!! xlolx xlolx xlolx

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

What's the tailgating situation at Dartmouth?
Is there plenty of parking?
What time do they open the lots?

Any info would be appreciated!

[Ivytalk]

Interesting post and perspective. Back in the day all the New England teams seemed to play their local Ivy. UMass hasn't played an Ivy since we beat Harvard in '88. I think the animosity/snobbery is no longer as prevalent as it was back in the 60's and I'm certain UMass would be happy to play an Ivy again but I just don't think the feeling is mutual at least as far as Harvard is concerned.

I'm also old enough to remember the good old days of annual clashes between Ivies and their "Yankee Conference" counterparts. The chief attitude of Harvard students toward UMass back then (football-wise, at least) was pure apathy, not class warfare. We usually lost to UMass, but nobody got upset about it. Dartmouth fans always had chips on their shoulder toward Harvard, and the Crimson hated to lose to Dartmouth. I remember after the Harvard-Dartmouth game my sophomore year, when the Crimson lost a close one at home, drunken Dartmouth band members found their way to my House dining hall and started to "serenade" us. Then one of the most respected upperclassmen in my house fired a dish of mashed potatoes at them and, before you knew it, there was a massive food fight! One of the fondest memories of my college career!:D

GO UNH!!! SHOW NO MERCY ON THE BIG GREEN WEENIES!! RUN UP THE SCORE ON SATURDAY!!:thumbsup: :nod:

[Umass74]

Harvard played Northeastern every year 2001-2004 (& maybe some before then too). Northeastern is in the A-10, no? And I think they beat UNH & UMass a few of those years...

HW:

Well remember I've posted a number of times that I believe that the Ivies could and should compete in playoffs. Harvard and Brown should be able to compete with anyone in I-AA. I was not intending smack.

However, I still think Harvard playing Northeastern was "cherry picking" a A10 team they thought they could defeat (no offense to Northeastern).

Harvard always played UMass tough especially since every game was at Harvard. I wish the Ivies would go to 11 games and play more teams in the Northeast.

IMHO, the more Ivy exposure, the better it is for I-AA...

[RadMann]

Over the past few decades the best program in the Ivy League by far has been Penn....

[UNHWILDCATS05]

What's the tailgating situation at Dartmouth?
Is there plenty of parking?
What time do they open the lots?

Any info would be appreciated!


I asked a similar question on an Ivy League Sports board http://www.voy.com/26867/

and the response I got was very helpful... The response was titled "Stay Home" and the message was "you flatulent little turd"

xlolx xlolx xlolx

GO CATS!!!

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Those Ivies and their sophisticated humor.

[Ivytalk]

I asked a similar question on an Ivy League Sports board http://www.voy.com/26867/

and the response I got was very helpful... The response was titled "Stay Home" and the message was "you flatulent little turd"

xlolx xlolx xlolx

GO CATS!!!

You should take that as a compliment! Now you and the Cats march right on into Hanover and "fart" all over the Big Groan!

[Go...gate]

Colgate-Cornell is actually all that remains of what used to be called the "Upstate Big Three". For many years, Cornell, Colgate and Syracuse played each other every year and it was a hell of a rivalry until Ben Schwartzwalder arrived at Syracuse in about 1952 and the Ivy League began round-robin play in 1956. Like the Erie Canal, the Upstate Big Three is no more.

To further date myself, these three schools also regularly played NYU, Lafayette, Columbia, Holy Cross, Fordham and Rutgers. All were conisidered "Big Time" football in those days.

[Umass74]

I asked a similar question on an Ivy League Sports board http://www.voy.com/26867/

and the response I got was very helpful... The response was titled "Stay Home" and the message was "you flatulent little turd"

Oh now you have to go. :nod:

[Sam Adams]

Oh now you have to go. :nod:
:nod:

Thanks for giving me a reason to hope that UNH goes into Hanover and drops one sustained painful MF'ng ass whupping on those pseudo intellectual drunken neo-cons. :D

[bulldog10jw]

I asked a similar question on an Ivy League Sports board http://www.voy.com/26867/

and the response I got was very helpful... The response was titled "Stay Home" and the message was "you flatulent little turd"

xlolx xlolx xlolx

GO CATS!!!

Try this board. Better class of people.

http://www.voy.com/152805/

[UNHWILDCATS05]

:nod:

Thanks for giving me a reason to hope that UNH goes into Hanover and drops one sustained painful MF'ng ass whupping on those pseudo intellectual drunken neo-cons. :D


xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Spoken like a true gentleman... are you sure you didn't go to Dartmouth..

hahahaha xlolx xlolx xlolx

I really should be appreciative to the person that responded... it has added an entire new aspect to the game for me... can't wait to get up to Hanover and show the green who is the best and will always be the best in New Hampshire...

THE University of New Hampshire

[UNHWILDCATS05]

Try this board. Better class of people.

http://www.voy.com/152805/

Thanks Bulldog,

I already found that one and actually got a good and respectful reply...

Thanks for the assistance!! :nod:

[wildcat_fan]

Hi guys. I haven't been posting much yet this season. I'm getting married next month so I have been pretty busy with wedding plans. I have to go to New Hampshire for my bridal shower on Sunday, so I made arrangements to fly up on Saturday morning. My parents are picking me up at the airport and we are driving directly to Hanover where I plan to enjoy, even savor, 60 minutes of pure destruction on the part of the UNH football team. I can remember that glorious day in 1974 (I think) when UNH finally beat Dartmouth. I was listening to the game on the radio at my grandparent's house. My parents were at the game, and I have to say I have not seen my Dad so happy as when he and my mother came to pick me up after the game. Beating Northwestern was right up there, but there's just something about Dartmouth that makes the annual drubbing oh, so sweet. I can hardly wait. My Ricky Santos No. 2 football jersey is at the ready and will be worn with wildcat pride.

[wildcat_fan]

You're correct that UMass/UNH was traditionally the last game or 2d to last game of the season in the 60's.

Actually, I think that tradition lasted much longer than that. When I graduated from UNH in the mid 80s, UNH was still playing U. Mass. as the last game of the season.

[UNHknowledge]

Sorry to joke you out Knowledge, but where is your knowledge??? Day is a coach at Temple now. You better sharpen up your tools before we have to take away your name.
You're dirty Reg...yeah I'll call you reg. Anyways, why the hell did Day downgrade to Temple.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Actually, I think that tradition lasted much longer than that. When I graduated from UNH in the mid 80s, UNH was still playing U. Mass. as the last game of the season.

Yep, 1993 was the last season ending UMass-UNH game, 40 years of tradition undone, not sure why? Maine didn't become the last game until 1999.

Good to see you back out here wildcat_fan!

[Umass74]

Yep, 1993 was the last season ending UMass-UNH game, 40 years of tradition undone, not sure why? Maine didn't become the last game until 1999.


Man, I sat through some cold-ass UMass-UNH games.xlolx

I have a few images of the November 21, 1983 UMass-UNH game in the archives section of my UMass football blog.

They're here (http://umass74.blogspot.com/2005_06_01_umass74_archive.html) . Scroll down to the June 28, 2005 entry.

[Gordon Shumway]

I remember a Umass game from the late 60's in Durham when we had about a foot of snow the night before the game. It was exceptionally cold on game day so none of the snow was going to melt. They had to plow the field creating two humongous mounds of snow at the back of each endzone, which were pretty tight to the endlines. I don't remember that being much of a problem for UNH, as they didn't use the endzone anywhere near as much back then as they do today.xlolx

[UNHFootballAlum]

UMASS74, I was in that game in 1983. It was cold as hell that day. You can see me in the picture on your blog, I am #44 waiting to go back into the game on defense to warm up.

[Umass74]

UNHAlum:

I should have reminded everyone that Blogger displays a larger version of the image if you right click on it.

It was freezin' that day. Man, it was cold. UNHAlum could also tell you that there was very little grass left on the field. It must have been hard as concrete.

As I said on my blog, four UMass turnovers and a big day by the Wildcat running game made it a long drive home...

[UNHFootballAlum]

Grass? There was no grass left on that field. The field was hard and felt as if you were playing on concrete, but we had a great running back then and the filed was to his liking

[Green26]

As a Dartmouth alum, and having seen UNH play each of the past two seasons, I have no illusion of Dartmouth beating UNH this weekend. However, I would like to disagree with ValleyRaider's assessment of the Colgate v. Dartmouth game last weekend. Dartmouth led 7-6 at halftime. Colgate went up 14-7 in the third quarter. However, Colgate didn't score its final 2 TD's until 5:56 and 3:10 left in the game. It was not the case of Colgate's offense finally getting going. Down only 1 TD, Dartmouth went for a 4th and 8 on Colgate's 39, with about 8 minutes to go, and got sacked--giving the ball to Colgate at midfield. Colgate drove and scored. Then Dartmouth fumbled at its own 36, and Colgate scored again.

I listened to the game on the radio, and talked to my buddy, who does the color for Dartmouth's radio coverage. He and I played for the Big Green, graduating in 1972. I wonder if it was coincidence that UNH didn't beat Dartmouth until 1973. I'm joking. I also talked to my nephew, who plays cornerback for Dartmouth. Watch for no. 4, from Bozeman, Montana.

I don't believe the Ivies ever reduced scholarships, as I don't believe they ever had athletic scholarships--or at least not since the official league was formed, which was not until the 50's. There should be plenty of room to tailgate in Hanover, as almost no one attends the games anymore. There are large athletic fields, and I assume parking is still there, to the southeast of the stadium. Most of the tailgating areas to the north of the stadium will be taken by Dartmouth alums.

I saw my former teammate, Steve Stetson, the d-line coach of UNH, when UNH played the University of Montana in the playoffs in 2004. I believe Steve left to a head coaching job this year. I think Montana is going to be very good by playoff time, so maybe we'll get to play UNH again in December. For you old guys like me, I spent some time with Ed Marinaro, Cornell '72, a year ago, when he visited us at our summer house on Flathead lake in Montana. Ed has a 4 year old son, Little Eddie, who looks like he already has some of his dad's moves.

I'm hoping the Dartmouth D can slow UNH's offense this weekend, at least for awhile. I'm also hoping that David Ball doesn't eat up my nephew, who had his first start last weekend.

[art vandelay]

hey unh alum i see your pants are a bit grass stained in that pic you got some PT. boo yeah! :)

[UNHFootballAlum]

Yo Art, I was a starter...I got lots of PT and my pants were always dirty.

[UNHWildCats]

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Jim+Fennell%3a+Green+likely+ to+feel+blue&articleId=edcafede-e55e-4d51-ab9f-667d4019682b

[UNHFan99]

Steve Stetson is now the head coach at Hamilton College in NY. He was a great coach and Dave Ball gives him credit for being the coach on the staff that believed in him first.

[Sam Adams]

Hey Flathead Lake looks pretty nice, maybe I should root for Dartmouth....;)

[Green26]

Stetson started recruiting Ball when he was still the head coach at a small school, and then continued when he went to UNH. Yes, Flathead lake is a beautiful place--my favorite place on earth. It's a bit bigger than Lake Tahoe, but not nearly as developed or cold. Come visit anytime, perhaps for a Montana football game in September, which is a great time of the year. Montana has a great stadium and crowd, as I know the 2004 UNH team and fans appreciated. Montana fans followed UNH closely last year, and were surprised when they lost out earlier in the playoffs. I had predicted they'd be in the nat'l champ. game.

This weekend's game in Hanover will be the first one played on Dartmouth's new turf, which was installed late in the summer. Other stadium renovations, including a new football varsity house, will be built over the next offseason, on the east side (visitor's). While Dartmouth's stadium is better than UNH's, it's at the bottom of the Ivies now.

Dartmouth's starting qb hurt his throwing shoulder, and had a sling after the game, on the last play at Colgate. Dartmouth's starting qb from last season flunked out in the spring. Here's part of an article on my nephew:

HANOVER -- Dartmouth corner John Manning is listed at 5-foot-10, 185 pounds. Take this to the bank: He's no bigger than that.

New Hampshire wide receiver David Ball, who is poised to break Jerry Rice's I-AA career touchdown mark, is listed at 6-2, 200 pounds. Take this to the bank: The Vermont high school record-holder in the high jump (6-8 1/2) plays bigger than that. A lot bigger.

In his second career start Saturday, Manning knows he'll be severely tested by Ball, but guess what? Far from losing sleep at the prospect, he can't wait.

"It's definitely going to be a big challenge," said Manning, a standout running back and sprinter in high school. "I've been looking forward to playing against a receiver like that. It's what any defensive back looks forward to, playing against maybe the best I-AA receiver in the whole country. He looks good on film. He's athletic, he's fast and he can jump.

Manning and the corners will get plenty of help from Ian Wilson, John Pircon, Kyle Cavanaugh and the Big Green's stock of talented and hard-hitting safeties.

Controlling arguably the best receiver in I-AA football on arguably the best team in I-AA football figures to be a tremendous challenge but it's one Manning and his teammates will embrace Saturday when they kick off their home season on renovated Memorial Field.

"It's always awesome playing for the first time on a new field," Manning said. "But when you get to do it at the same time you are playing against an in-state rival, it's your home field and they are No. 1 in the country, it's pretty much a dream game."

[Green26]

There's an article in the Valley News (Hanover area) today, saying this is the biggest game in Hanover in 35 years--when Ed Marinaro and undefeated Cornell came to town, with along ABC TV and their number one tv crew of Chris Schenkel, Bud Wilkenson, and ? Fleming, I believe. This is the first time a no. 1 ranked team has come to Hanover since 1940, when undefeated Cornell came to town, and the game ended in a tie. This was the "famous" 5th down game, in which film showed that Cornell had scored its TD on a 5th down which the referees had not caught. Cornell conceded the game to Dartmouth the following week. I don't suppose a no. 1 ranked team would concede a victory like that, in this day and age. P.S. One of my teammates in the 1971 Cornell game eventually married a (younger) woman born the day of the game.

[AppGuy04]

do we really have to play this game

or can we give unh 35 and skip to the 4th qtr

[Gordon Shumway]

I certainly hope you are right, but when you have been a UNH fan as long as I have, you take nothing for granted. There were times I was unsure about this coaching staff, but I have come to believe they are far better than I ever gave them credit for. Their ability to keep this team focused and confident does take some of the worry out of these type of games.

[bulldog10jw]

This is the first time a no. 1 ranked team has come to Hanover since 1940, when undefeated Cornell came to town, and the game ended in a tie. This was the "famous" 5th down game, in which film showed that Cornell had scored its TD on a 5th down which the referees had not caught. Cornell conceded the game to Dartmouth the following week. .

Actually, I think Cornell had originally won the game 7-3. When it was shown that they had won on a 5th down, they conceded the game and the score reverted to 3-0. Just the opposite reaction of Colorado who won a 5th down game a few years ago. I think there may have been another recently also, but I can't recall the details.

By the way, did you play on the great Dartmouth team of 1970. I saw them play Yale in the Bowl in one of the most lopsided 10-0 games you could ever see. And Yale was a pretty good team that year with Dick Jauron. It was often speculated, in both Hanover and New Haven, how Yale's great 1968 offense would have done against Dartmouth's unbelievable 1970 defense. I'm sure we have opposite opinions.;)

[Green26]

Bulldog, now that I think about it, you are correct on the 1940 Cornell/Darmtouth game. My bad. That game is ranked as the third best Dartmouth game of all time. Yes, I played on the 1970. Yes, we thought the game was lopsided, but we couldn't pull away from them. The yardage difference was 480-190. Attendance was over 60,000. Going into the game, Yale was ranked 16th and Dartmouth 19th. Sports Illustrated did an article on the game, called "Just Ask the Tailgate Set Who Is No. 1". A Dartmouth d-lineman was SI's national lineman of the week. This game is listed as Dartmouth 4th best of all time. Jauron was great. Don Jean?, the other running back, was fast. Neville was a very good d-lineman. He, along with Dartmouth's Bowden, were first-team coaches all-american that year, I believe. Bowden was admitted into the college football hall of fame a few years ago, along with Barry Sanders and Joe Theisman. This is the year Dartmouth won the Lambert Trophy (ahead of Penn St., which was 7-3) and ended up being ranked 14th in the nation. These were the days when Dartmouth played Yale and Harvard on the road every year, which we liked. Ah, the good old days. Did you play ball?

[Go...gate]

There's an article in the Valley News (Hanover area) today, saying this is the biggest game in Hanover in 35 years--when Ed Marinaro and undefeated Cornell came to town, with along ABC TV and their number one tv crew of Chris Schenkel, Bud Wilkenson, and ? Fleming, I believe. This is the first time a no. 1 ranked team has come to Hanover since 1940, when undefeated Cornell came to town, and the game ended in a tie. This was the "famous" 5th down game, in which film showed that Cornell had scored its TD on a 5th down which the referees had not caught. Cornell conceded the game to Dartmouth the following week. I don't suppose a no. 1 ranked team would concede a victory like that, in this day and age. P.S. One of my teammates in the 1971 Cornell game eventually married a (younger) woman born the day of the game.

That '71 game was a great one on ABC, but cost Marinaro the Heisman to Pat Sullivan of Auburn, who was not nearly in the same class as a ballplayer.

[Go...gate]

Bulldog, now that I think about it, you are correct on the 1940 Cornell/Darmtouth game. My bad. That game is ranked as the third best Dartmouth game of all time. Yes, I played on the 1970. Yes, we thought the game was lopsided, but we couldn't pull away from them. The yardage difference was 480-190. Attendance was over 60,000. Going into the game, Yale was ranked 16th and Dartmouth 19th. Sports Illustrated did an article on the game, called "Just Ask the Tailgate Set Who Is No. 1". A Dartmouth d-lineman was SI's national lineman of the week. This game is listed as Dartmouth 4th best of all time. Jauron was great. Don Jean?, the other running back, was fast. Neville was a very good d-lineman. He, along with Dartmouth's Bowden, were first-team coaches all-american that year, I believe. Bowden was admitted into the college football hall of fame a few years ago, along with Barry Sanders and Joe Theisman. This is the year Dartmouth won the Lambert Trophy (ahead of Penn St., which was 7-3) and ended up being ranked 14th in the nation. These were the days when Dartmouth played Yale and Harvard on the road every year, which we liked. Ah, the good old days. Did you play ball?

The '69 team was just as good, IMO. They had one bad day in the last game at Princeton and lost to an inferior Tiger squad (it was Princeton's last Ivy Champion for the next 20 seasons) which had been smashed by Rutgers in the Centennial Game and later edged by Yale and Colgate.

[UNHWildCats]

Actually, I think Cornell had originally won the game 7-3. When it was shown that they had won on a 5th down, they conceded the game and the score reverted to 3-0. Just the opposite reaction of Colorado who won a 5th down game a few years ago. I think there may have been another recently also, but I can't recall the details.

By the way, did you play on the great Dartmouth team of 1970. I saw them play Yale in the Bowl in one of the most lopsided 10-0 games you could ever see. And Yale was a pretty good team that year with Dick Jauron. It was often speculated, in both Hanover and New Haven, how Yale's great 1968 offense would have done against Dartmouth's unbelievable 1970 defense. I'm sure we have opposite opinions.;)

LOL dont think colorado could win a 20th down game this year

[bulldog10jw]

Bulldog, now that I think about it, you are correct on the 1940 Cornell/Darmtouth game. My bad. That game is ranked as the third best Dartmouth game of all time. Yes, I played on the 1970. Yes, we thought the game was lopsided, but we couldn't pull away from them. The yardage difference was 480-190. Attendance was over 60,000. Going into the game, Yale was ranked 16th and Dartmouth 19th. Sports Illustrated did an article on the game, called "Just Ask the Tailgate Set Who Is No. 1". A Dartmouth d-lineman was SI's national lineman of the week. This game is listed as Dartmouth 4th best of all time. Jauron was great. Don Jean?, the other running back, was fast. Neville was a very good d-lineman. He, along with Dartmouth's Bowden, were first-team coaches all-american that year, I believe. Bowden was admitted into the college football hall of fame a few years ago, along with Barry Sanders and Joe Theisman. This is the year Dartmouth won the Lambert Trophy (ahead of Penn St., which was 7-3) and ended up being ranked 14th in the nation. These were the days when Dartmouth played Yale and Harvard on the road every year, which we liked. Ah, the good old days. Did you play ball?


Don Martin is the player you are thinking about. Very fast. Went on to play in the NFL and later became a coach(like Jauron). I'm not sure where he is coaching , or if he is, now.

Playing the game in the Bowl every year was a must in those days since the game always drew 50-60k all through the '60's. I think the first game in Hanover may have been 1973.

I'm surprised Yale was ranked higher in '70. I thought that Dartmouth may have been favored in that game, their D was so strong.

I was a freshman that year and I'm afraid my football days had ended in high school.

[bulldog10jw]

The '69 team was just as good, IMO. They had one bad day in the last game at Princeton and lost to an inferior Tiger squad (it was Princeton's last Ivy Champion for the next 20 seasons) which had been smashed by Rutgers in the Centennial Game and later edged by Yale and Colgate.

I don't think Princeton was THAT inferior. Yale edged them on a late FG 17-14 although I think Princeton had the better of the play. Princeton's win against Dartmouth set up a rare 3 way tie for the title among Yale, Dartmouth, and Princeton.

You are correct about Dartmouth having a great team in '69, but the defense was nowhere near as good as in 1970.

[Green26]

Yes, it was Don Martin. I met him a few years later, at Stanford. I can't recall if he was going to school there, or just passing through. I think Don Jean may have been an all-Ivy d-back from Cornell. Yale played Dartmouth in Hanover in 1971, for only the second time ever, the prior one being something like 1898. Princeton clobbered us in that game in 1969, and Chasey, our qb, separated his shoulder. Hank Bjorkland, who later played running back for the Jets, had big day against us. Yes, our 1970 D was better. Only 3 teams scored against us in 1970, only 1 TD scored against the first team D, and no field goals were scored against us. At the last Ivy Football Dinner at the Waldorf, Marinaro introduced me to Jack Ford, who I believe was a Yale d-back about my vintage. Did you know him? The Ivy League Football Dinner is a terrific event. I assume it's unique, in that a whole conference of former players comes together every two years, to honor one player from each school, and to mingle and thing of the old days (or not so old days for the younger guys). The players are honored for what they have achieved in life, not for their playing ability. Gov. Pataki spoke at the last dinner. He was a baseball player at Yale, and his son was a recent receiver there, I believe. He spoke very well.

[Go...gate]

I don't think Princeton was THAT inferior. Yale edged them on a late FG 17-14 although I think Princeton had the better of the play. Princeton's win against Dartmouth set up a rare 3 way tie for the title among Yale, Dartmouth, and Princeton.

You are correct about Dartmouth having a great team in '69, but the defense was nowhere near as good as in 1970.

Your point is well taken. Had Arnie Holtberg made a tying FG late in the PU-Yale game to earn a tie, who knows? However, I was at the PU-Dartmouth game that year and Dartmouth seemed very flat. I remember they tried a quick kick early in the game and it led to PU's first TD. Hank Bjorklund had a good day for Princeton.

[bulldog10jw]

Yes, it was Don Martin. I met him a few years later, at Stanford. I can't recall if he was going to school there, or just passing through. I think Don Jean may have been an all-Ivy d-back from Cornell. Yale played Dartmouth in Hanover in 1971, for only the second time ever, the prior one being something like 1898. Princeton clobbered us in that game in 1969, and Chasey, our qb, separated his shoulder. Hank Bjorkland, who later played running back for the Jets, had big day against us. Yes, our 1970 D was better. Only 3 teams scored against us in 1970, only 1 TD scored against the first team D, and no field goals were scored against us. At the last Ivy Football Dinner at the Waldorf, Marinaro introduced me to Jack Ford, who I believe was a Yale d-back about my vintage. Did you know him? The Ivy League Football Dinner is a terrific event. I assume it's unique, in that a whole conference of former players comes together every two years, to honor one player from each school, and to mingle and thing of the old days (or not so old days for the younger guys). The players are honored for what they have achieved in life, not for their playing ability. Gov. Pataki spoke at the last dinner. He was a baseball player at Yale, and his son was a recent receiver there, I believe. He spoke very well.


I knew who Jack was, but didn't know him personally. I did play against Bob Perschel who was Yale's captain in '72. Or rather my team played against his team in high school. Our team also played against two other Yale football players before Yale, John Kerez and Chuck Sizemore. They all played in the early '70's.

[bulldog10jw]

Your point is well taken. Had Arnie Holtberg made a tying FG late in the PU-Yale game to earn a tie, who knows? However, I was at the PU-Dartmouth game that year and Dartmouth seemed very flat. I remember they tried a quick kick early in the game and it led to PU's first TD. Hank Bjorklund had a good day for Princeton.

I think that Princeton win over Dartmouth in '69 ended up being a little payback. In 1965 Princeton had a chance for a second consecutive unbeaten season ruined by a loss to Dartmouth in the finale. Likewise, the Princeton win in '69 prevented two straight Dartmouth unbeaten seasons(although, no one knew that at the time).

[Sam Adams]

Great thread. I love the Ivy history.

Nevertheless I still hope UNH kicks the stuffing out of big green in about 13 hours. on the other hand, if NH-Hanover was to pull the upset it would be legendary and that would certainly add a great chapter to the aforemented storied Ivy history.

I'll go out on a limb and predict that Mr. Santos might get the game ball.

Question: why does my cat insist upon laying on top of my keyboard whenever I try to post????

[Green26]

How about some UMass history? Greg Landry and Dr. J. Landry was before my time, but I played against Tim Berra (a receiver and Yogi's son, right) and Bob Pena. Pena was very good, and was also good at holding cornerbacks slightly on sweeps. They both played in the NFL, didn't they? I too have enjoyed the discussion and am impressed by the knowledge of some of you, especially that Yale guy. Here's one more bit of trivia. Dick Jauron's dad coached in Miles City, Montana (where I was born) in the late 40's, I believe. A Jauron, who is now a lawyer in NH, was born in Miles City in 1949. I found him while Googling on this subject a couple years ago. I assume he is Dick's older brother, but don't know.

[bulldog10jw]

Some other related trivia. Long time Yale Head Coach Carm Cozza was offered the Head Coaching position at the University of New Hampshire before he became Yale's coach in 1965. Carm had been an assistant at Yale for two years when HC John Pont left Yale to become HC at Indiana. Carm interviewed and received a verbal commitment from UNH in Jan. of '65, but was told by Yale AD Delaney Kiputh to wait before accepting because he was being considered by Yale. A couple of days later he was named Yale's Head Coach.

I wonder how that would have changed things at Yale AND UNH. Carm was a great recruiter in those days.

[Gordon Shumway]

That is very interesting about Carm Cozza. I had never heard that before now. Interesting how things work out though. The coach they did bring in at that time was Joe Yukica, who ended up later coaching Boston College for 10 years, and then of all places Dartmouth. He won New England coach of the year at all three schools.

[Green26]

Yukica was an assistant at Dartmouth in the 60's, perhaps even after he left UNH. As stated, he eventually became the head coach at Dartmouth. Yukica was well-liked by players in both of his times in Hanover. He was replaced by Buddy Teevens, who was only 33 and who came from the head coaching job at Maine. Teevens had played qb and hockey at Dartmouth, starting in front of the younger Jeff Kemp, who later played in the NFL. Dave Shula was a receiver for both of them. John Lyons replaced Teevens when he went to Tulane. Teevens replaced Lyons 2 seasons ago, after Teevens was fired by Stanford. Teevens' AD at both Dartmouth and Stanford was Ted Leland. Teevens and the current Harvard coach were either teammates or good friends in high school.

Cozza recruited me. Great guy. One of the all-time great Ivy league coaches. After I graduated, I exchanged communication with Cozza for a number of years, via mutual friends in New Haven.

[Ronbo]

And UNH/Dartmouth is an important game because? Have I missed the national importantance of this game and the reason it generates 7 pages before it's even played? Has I-AA become this boring?

[bulldog10jw]

And UNH/Dartmouth is an important game because? Have I missed the national importantance of this game and the reason it generates 7 pages before it's even played? Has I-AA become this boring?

For some of us, college football is as much about its history, as it is about todays game. I suggest you ignore this thread.;)

[Ronbo]

UNH 45 - Dartmouth 7

Yawn, zzzzzzzzzzz.

[UNHWildCats]

I think Santos and Ball are gonna be on a mission today. Expect a huge game from Ball, 4 TDs? UNH will have the 45-7 near halftime.

[bulldog10jw]

UNH 45 - Dartmouth 7

Yawn, zzzzzzzzzzz.

Thanks for the 8th page.xlolx

[Green26]

Here's what Dartmouth coach Teevens,who has coached at Tulane, Ill., Florida and Stanford, said about UNH after the game:

Teevens on just how good UNH is: "That's a I-A team. I've played a bunch of them and they are as good as a lot of I-A teams. ... They could beat a bunch of teams that play at that level."