Why transition limitations?

[Tribe4SF]

My understanding is that UC Davis is still not eligible for the playoffs. Can someone explain the rationale for teams moving up being ineligible for the playoffs? I could see it if a team was moving down, but why restrict a team that's moved up? If they're good enough to qualify, let 'em play.

[kardplayer]

I think its to limit the amount of moves teams make. The concern is that teams will "pop-up" if they have a good team and then pop back down when they don't. The length "forces" a long-term commitment.

[89Hen]

I think its to limit the amount of moves teams make. The concern is that teams will "pop-up" if they have a good team and then pop back down when they don't. The length "forces" a long-term commitment.
I'm not so sure about that. You're talking about a school moving their entire Athletic Department to a new level. I seriously doubt a school would do that if they thought they have a good football team one year.

I have to agree with Tribe as I've asked the same questions before. I could see one year for transition period, but if you can compete on the field after that, then go ahead and compete. :twocents:

[putter]

Good point. I think that they should be playoff elegible immediately. Yes there are costs to getting your scholarships up and being competitive but teams like UC Davis and NDSU have proven they have quality programs and should be allowed to be in the playoffs.

[89Hen]

Good point. I think that they should be playoff elegible immediately.
Well, one year is a reasonable waiting period. That way a school knows for sure that it's going to give it a real go.

[zeke74]

I think that it all comes down to money. First to see if the transitioning teams can bring their scholorships up and maintain them over time. But secondly I feel that the ad's and presidents that are on the board don't want to spread the playoff money around if they don't have to, not quite worded the way I want it but i quantify by stating that they have resently lifted those rules for at least one so called low money sport. Volleyball now has either no transition or a three year period not sure but I know we are eligible this year(not eligible in Football till 08). Not positive but I think wrestling and soccer are the same way.

[89Hen]

But secondly I feel that the ad's and presidents that are on the board don't want to spread the playoff money around if they don't have to
What playoff money?

[McNeese72]

I think that it all comes down to money. First to see if the transitioning teams can bring their scholorships up and maintain them over time. But secondly I feel that the ad's and presidents that are on the board don't want to spread the playoff money around if they don't have to, not quite worded the way I want it but i quantify by stating that they have resently lifted those rules for at least one so called low money sport. Volleyball now has either no transition or a three year period not sure but I know we are eligible this year(not eligible in Football till 08). Not positive but I think wrestling and soccer are the same way.

LOL! xlolx xlolx xlolx

Playoff money?

Evidently you don't know how the NCAA works with the money in the playoffs.

Doc

[OrneryAggie]

It's basketball playoff $$ they don't want to share. When UCD initially made the move the rule was 4 years playoff ineligibility for all sports except men's basketball. BB was looking at a 10 year ban from the NCAA's. UCD, and I believe a few other transisitoning schools, threatened an anti-trust lawsuit and the NCAA changed the policy to 4 years for all sports. The rule is designed solely to discourage schools from moving up.

[dbackjon]

Does D2 have different eligibity criteria?

[UAalum72]

I don't know about the students, but the schools have more involved reporting and supervisory requirements. D-II colleges also need only 10 sports, Division I needs to sponsor 14 sports (16 for the BCS subdivision).

[NoCoDanny]

Students recruited to a D-II program are held to different admission standards than a D-I program. The transition period allows the school to adjust their requirements so that they are recruiting D-I eligible students and using them in the playoffs and not D-II eligible students.

You all would be screaming bloody murder if a D-II loaded up on questionable students that couldn't qualify for D-I and moved up and made a run through the play offs. As soon as that program beat your team all the cries that "it's not fair, they have players that we couldn't recruit because of different academic standards" would be all over this board.

[I-AA Fan]

I think its to limit the amount of moves teams make. The concern is that teams will "pop-up" if they have a good team and then pop back down when they don't. The length "forces" a long-term commitment.


Absolutely correct, nice reply. Also, this is also too keep teams from "recruiting" improperly prior to the move up. A powerful DII club will be able to recruit better athletes than a mediocre I-AA. It just puts everyone on a level playing field. Look at Marshall as an example. They landed Randy Moss by telling him that he would be IA before he graduates. Otherwise there is a better than average possibility the player would never attend Marshall. (Moss was unwanted, but that is just an example). The reason for the length of term is to give the existing athletes, which were recruited to a school in a given status, the right to stay that way. Look at a team that is moving from DII to I-AA non-scholarship ...they need the time to work those people that are on scholarship through the system. Now if they were to become I-AA non-scholarship imediately, they would have to terminate the scholarships. Then the school opens themselves up for legal ramifications.

[Cap'n Cat]

Seems, too, that the restricition is a nod to the fact that universities vying for reclassification up now need to prepare and execute a plan on how they will be in good financial shape by the time they are eligible. The plan must be designed to carry it beyond the provisional time period, as well.

Cap'n Cat can imagine the shenanigans that could be done to achieve an 85 or 63 scholly level "overnight".

My thoughts only. Responsible institutions should enjoy the restriction period and make the most of it.

[ucdtim17]

It really sucks for the one class of players that have to essentially play 4 years of exhibition games - the senior class at UCD is doing this and sacrificing for the university

[bison95]

It really sucks for the one class of players that have to essentially play 4 years of exhibition games - the senior class at UCD is doing this and sacrificing for the university

Just like I-A Football:rotateh: :nod:

[OldAggieAlum]

This raises the question, what if a transitional team ends the regular season so strong that it is ranked #1 in all of the polls? Can the winner of the "championship" game be rightly considered the I-AA "National Champion"? I guess so if the transitional team is considered to be in some sort of limbo state and not fully a part of I-AA yet.

I don't think it's fair though and results in a situation similar to I-A where the top teams may not get a chance to compete against each other post-season. Which team is really the national champion?

[JohnStOnge]

Whatever the reason, I don't like it. I think somebody ought to be able to declare themselves Division I overall and Division I-AA and immediately be completely eligible for everything that level has to offer.

[89Hen]

The reason for the length of term is to give the existing athletes, which were recruited to a school in a given status, the right to stay that way. Look at a team that is moving from DII to I-AA non-scholarship ...they need the time to work those people that are on scholarship through the system.
Bolongna. UC-Davis, NDSU, etc... have been playing I-AA schedules since they moved up. Are the former DII athletes sitting out these games?

[JBB]

It takes 5 years to complete the transition. Budgets have to grow, programs have to adapt to the new rules, scheduling has to be worked out. It takes 5 years, at least thats how it looks from here. During the transition you are not a member of Division 1 so you cant play in their championships even if you are ready.

[JMU Duke Dog]

What is the first season that UC-Davis and North Dakota State will be eligible for the playoffs?

[ucdtim17]

What is the first season that UC-Davis and North Dakota State will be eligible for the playoffs?

Davis and UNC next year and XDSU's in '08

[Tribe4SF]

Students recruited to a D-II program are held to different admission standards than a D-I program. The transition period allows the school to adjust their requirements so that they are recruiting D-I eligible students and using them in the playoffs and not D-II eligible students.

You all would be screaming bloody murder if a D-II loaded up on questionable students that couldn't qualify for D-I and moved up and made a run through the play offs. As soon as that program beat your team all the cries that "it's not fair, they have players that we couldn't recruit because of different academic standards" would be all over this board.

What are the differences? Are there differences in academic progress and status to remain eligible? New players coming in are obviously held to a "DI" standard. Existing players must be held to some standard after they enroll. Is that standard different for DII from DI?

From what you're saying...is that the reason UC Davis and NDSU have done so well? Because their rosters are populated with kids I-AA couldn't recruit?

[OldAggieAlum]

That does sound like a valid point concerning the difference in academic requirements between Div. II and Div. I. UC Davis actually used that difference to sell making the move up to Div. I to the academic community on campus. It was pointed out that because of the high UC admission standards that it made more sense for UC Davis to move up to Div. I where the academic requirements were more stringent.

So, yes a Div. II school could potentially load up with players who could not meet the standards of Div. I. However, couldn't the rules be set up so that players who would not be eligible at the Div I level not be allowed to play when the team makes the transition, rather than imposing a waiting period for that reason. If a school knew that this was the rule, it would put the onus on them to notify their incoming players that due to an anticipated move to Div. I, they would at some point have to meet the higher standards of Div. I or leave the team.

[Russ B]

From what you're saying...is that the reason UC Davis and NDSU have done so well? Because their rosters are populated with kids I-AA couldn't recruit?

Not the case for Davis, since anyone Davis recruits has to be UC eligible, which is generally a more stringent standard than the NCAA, afaik.

Unless your name is Jason Kidd. :rolleyes: Which was reason given for not going D-I, actually: the pressure to recruit borderline (ha) students (ha) in the name of athletic success.

[Russ B]

This raises the question, what if a transitional team ends the regular season so strong that it is ranked #1 in all of the polls? Can the winner of the "championship" game be rightly considered the I-AA "National Champion"? I guess so if the transitional team is considered to be in some sort of limbo state and not fully a part of I-AA yet.

I don't think it's fair though and results in a situation similar to I-A where the top teams may not get a chance to compete against each other post-season. Which team is really the national champion?

This is getting away from football a bit, but the UCD women's bball team would've been 1st or 2nd in the Big West this year had their games counted. *shrug* Just part of the NCAA game. :read:

[*****]

It takes 5 years to complete the transition. Budgets have to grow, programs have to adapt to the new rules, scheduling has to be worked out...Thanks again JBB. I have laid the reasons out ad nauseum but some longtime members refuse to accept that there is an institutional difference between divisions. D-I is not like any other division and you're not going to get in (and shouldn't) unless you prove you can hack it.

[89Hen]

Thanks again JBB. I have laid the reasons out ad nauseum but some longtime members refuse to accept that there is an institutional difference between divisions. D-I is not like any other division and you're not going to get in (and shouldn't) unless you prove you can hack it.
That's a crock. Where's the NCAA when a DI team is hemmoraging money, has no attendance, can't comptete on the field, etc..? To say that they really care to make sure a DII is OK before they can participate in post-season football is a joke. xcoffeex