UAlbany or CConn St. undefeated = playoffs?

[MplsBison]

The way I see it, the winner of next week's UA vs. CCSU game is going to be undefeated in the NEC.

Both teams have big time, statement wins (CCSU over Ga Southern, UA over Delaware).


Should that mean an at large bid to the playoffs?



My answer: no.

If UA or CCSU played in the A10, they'd be 5-6.

[mainejeff]

The way I see it, the winner of next week's UA vs. CCSU game is going to be undefeated in the NEC.

Both teams have big time, statement wins (CCSU over Ga Southern, UA over Delaware).


Should that mean an autobid to the playoffs?



My answer: no.

If UA or CCSU played in the A10, they'd be 5-6.

Probably not, but the winner deserves consideration.....especially if it is Albany (wins over Delaware, Lehigh)......that Fordham game was a killer for them though.

[*****]

let's see what the GPI sez, starting 10/3

[colgate13]

If UA or CCSU played in the A10, they'd be 5-6.

Looks like you went to the KC Keeler school of thought. I have to ask: based on what evidence are you so sure of this outcome?

More importantly though, the measure of playoff worthiness is not how a team would do in the A-10. Its based on either winning an autobid conference or having the requisite Division I wins and winning important games against top opponents.

IF either Albany or CCSU runs the table from here on out, no question in my mind that they deserve to be in the playoffs. They've gone out and scheduled OOC games against autobid conferences and won. That's what 'the experts' here on AGS and elsewhere say they need to do, and they've done it. End of story.:twocents:

[MplsBison]

I don't know why I said "autobid". I meant to say at large.

[MplsBison]

what evidence are you so sure of this outcome?

Both the Delaware, Lehigh, and Ga So games were pretty close.

It's hard to win every game close like that.

[Saint3333]

Let's see what Delaware and/or GSU does as well. Remember what JMU did after the loss to CCU... not much.

[downbythebeach]

MPLS sounds like the average Delaware poster did for the last few seasons.........up until last night:nod:

Quite an accomplishment for a "D-3 team":hurray:

[aceinthehole]

Let's see what Delaware and/or GSU does as well. Remember what JMU did after the loss to CCU... not much.

Well, GSU already beat Coastal. I have no doubt they will finish the year with a winning record.

Delaware is having an "off year" for the Hens, but that is still better than a "good year" for most I-AA teams. They too will have a winning record.

Let's be clear CCSU and Albany has won statement games TWICE each. One win could be a fluke, but they are competing in every game and are winning on the road vs. the I-AA elite. That's 4 wins between the 2 teams, then trow in Monmouth over Fordham and Morgan State. The NEC has arrived and belongs!

Now regardless of who wins next week, it is still very difficult to go out and finish undefeated. UA/CCSU will still have to face Monmouth and Stony Brook in conference, plus the Danes have Cornell (and undefeated Monmouth has Colgate on the schedule).

Why is the bar so high for the NEC to get an AQ? Our conference champ (likely UA, CCSU, or Monmouth) deserves to go to the playoffs this year. We will see how the season unfolds, but I think any of those 3 teams could "qualify" depending on the conference results and championship.

[*****]

... Why is the bar so high for the NEC to get an AQ? Our conference champ (likely UA, CCSU, or Monmouth) deserves to go to the playoffs this year...Then the PFL and Big South champs are more deserving based on last year's GPI.

11. Big South Conference (60.27)
39T. Coastal Carolina (33.89)
79. Charleston So (62.33)
81. Gardner Webb (62.89)
82. VMI (63.00)
108. Liberty (79.22)

13. Pioneer Football League (68.42)
43. San Diego (36.22)
55. Dayton (44.67)
72. Drake (56.33)
76. Morehead St (60.33)
102T. Jacksonville (77.67)
109. Davidson (79.89)
116. Valparaiso (85.89)
117. Austin Peay (86.44)
120. Butler (88.33)

14. Northeast Conference (73.75)
83. Monmouth (63.11)
86. Central Conn (65.56)
88T. Albany (67.11)
95. Stony Brook (71.67)
104. Wagner (77.78)
107. Sacred Ht (78.44)
112. St Francis (83.00)
113. Robert Morris (83.33)

Only the MAAC had a lower rating:

15. Metro-Atlantic Athletic Conference (77.82)
85. Duquesne (64.67)
88T. Marist (67.11)
114. Iona (84.67)
115. La Salle (85.00)
119. St Peter's (87.67)

[Dane96]

Ralph,

First, you know computer rankings are crap...that is why we play the games and have playoffs...it is the prime distinction of our beautiful level of football.

Second, THAT IS LAST YEAR!

[JALMOND]

Albany goes undefeated, I'd give them a nod.
C Conn goes undeafeated, I'd say not enough, unless GSU wins the SoCon.

Based on what has happened this year, especially with so many I-AA teams playing (and beating) I-A, going undefeated with a soft schedule won't do it. If Albany were to go undefeated, they would have beaten both Lehigh and Delaware on the road, two teams that have made the playoffs or just missed the playoffs for awhile now. If CCSU were to go undefeated, they would only have one quality win (Ga Southern), to go with a (shaky) win over DII Southern Connecticut.

Compare that to I-AA wins over BCS teams Colorado, Indiana, Northwestern and Duke.

[youwouldno]

Um, the thing is, Lehigh and Delaware aren't good. Neither is GSU at this point of their transition. So I don't see a win over a playoff team from either Albany or C Conn. The fact that Lehigh and UD and GSU were good in the past and will be good again has no bearing on the quality of those specific wins, which in no way justify a playoff bid.

Does anyone really, really think Albany can advance in the playoffs?

[*****]

Ralph,
First, you know computer rankings are crap...that is why we play the games and have playoffs...it is the prime distinction of our beautiful level of football.
Second, THAT IS LAST YEAR!Dane96,
First, the GPI is not a computer ranking (and it is your opinion they are crap, not universally shared).
Second, I already said that was last year.

[*****]

Albany goes undefeated, I'd give them a nod...They can't go undefeated, they already lost to Fordham.

[GeauxColonels]

I think it's definitely tough to say any of that for sure right now. I think that if either team goes undefeated, and the full scholly teams they beat also finish strong (maybe even in the playoffs), the wins will look more impressive than they already do.

That being said, everything else has to be considered as well. The 2 NEC victories that you mentioned are not mutually exclusive events. One game doesn't make a season for anyone. I think at the end of the year, the selection committee will have to sit down and give consideration to an undefeated Albany or CCSU, looking at their other wins as well as the quality of ALL the teams which they beat.

[Dane96]

Geaux Colonels hit it on the head.

GPI isn't computer based? What is it then...for real because now I am confused.

[aceinthehole]

Um, the thing is, Lehigh and Delaware aren't good. Neither is GSU at this point of their transition. So I don't see a win over a playoff team from either Albany or C Conn. The fact that Lehigh and UD and GSU were good in the past and will be good again has no bearing on the quality of those specific wins, which in no way justify a playoff bid.

Does anyone really, really think Albany can advance in the playoffs?

Some people will never learn. :bang: The same things were said last year about the win vs. Colgate.

CCSU went up there and took advantage of 'Gate turnovers, put togeather multiple scoring drives and earned a victory on their turf! Colgate responded with a win vs. UMass the following week and went on to win the PL AQ spot in the playoffs. We beat a good team!

Just becase an NEC teams wins, doesn't mean the other teams stink. In fact, this year unbaised media reports that CCSU, UA, and Monmouth played their opponents and beat them without question or luck. GSU just beat Coastal, so how bad are they?

Face the facts: CCSU shut out GSU in the second half. Albany held the Hens to a second half FG. That is good defense, period!

The NEC went on the road to face 2 of the most storied I-AA programs, played in front of 20,000+ screaming fans, and won each game hands down. They didn't get lucky, but jumped up on each team early and shut them down! Face it the tide is turning!

I'm finally so fired up because we won these games and yet we are still be questioned. CCSU and Albany did what everyone thought wasn't possible. Its time for some people to just move on, accept it, and don't make excuses.

[youwouldno]

Obviously I "accept" that the NEC has pulled off some big upsets. I don't question the final scores of those games. In 1985 Furman lost to a D-II team and went to the I-AA title game, so yes, good teams do get upset.

But the strength of schedule isn't there. It's one thing to play 1 or 2 solid playoff conference teams. It's an entirely different thing to play in a tough conference. The reality is that Albany, CCSU etc. could not compete at the top of the A-10, SoCon, Gateway, etc.

The reason it matters is that the playoffs is the foundation of I-AA football. Allowing weak teams into the playoffs, or expanding them, dilutes the very thing that makes I-AA football great.

Anyone who thinks an NEC team could make noise in the playoffs is crazy.

[GeauxColonels]

Geaux Colonels hit it on the head.

GPI isn't computer based? What is it then...for real because now I am confused.
I that that's really the only fair way to do it. You have to look at EVERY team and then analyze their wins, their losses and their opponents over the season. Sure you can use computer rankings and other things like that to HELP your decision, but I really don't trust any system that places ALL faith in a computer.

[Dane96]

No...I was asking...what is the GPI if it is not computer generated.

[*****]

No...I was asking...what is the GPI if it is not computer generated.The GPI is not a secret nor "computer rankings". It's formula is written on every page. It is an INDEX. A mash of polls and computer ratings. It INDICATES which teams should be considered for at-large bids. It is the top indicator of that. HUMANS decide who get the at-large bids.
Total = (ARC + 3 polls used)/9
ARC (Adjusted Rankings of the Computers) = Sum of 6 computer ranking numbers (removing the max and min number from the 8 used)
Computer rankings:
MAS = Massey, MAT = Matthews, SAG = Sagarin, LAZ = Laz Index, DWI = Dwiggins, SEL = Self, ASH = Ashburn, SOR = Sorenson.
Polls:
SNW = Sports Network, UAA = ESPN/USA Today, AGS = Any Given Saturday That is the formula used last year, advised by Dr. Kenneth Massey. The 2006 GPI debuts 10/3.

[aceinthehole]

The GPI is not a secret nor "computer rankings". It's formula is written on every page. It is an INDEX. A mash of polls and computer ratings. It INDICATES which teams should be considered for at-large bids. It is the top indicator of that. HUMANS decide who get the at-large bids.That is the formula used last year, advised by Dr. Kenneth Massey. The 2006 GPI debuts 10/3.

Which is a fancy way of saying its a weighted average of computer rankings and human polls.

If it indicates who should be considered, how high must a team rank? If there are only 8 at large spots, must a team finish in the top-16 to be "seriously considered?"

I understand Ralph's distinction that the index does not actually select the teams, but really can a team finish ranked 24th and still make it as an at large if there are more "eligible" teams that finished ahead of them?

[youwouldno]

Well it shouldn't matter. A loss to Fordham, a couple good wins, and a bunch of easy wins shouldn't earn a playoff bid from a human judge anymore than a computer.

[TheValleyRaider]

Albany definately. CCSU should get consideration, but but i think there's a bit of difference when comparing Marist, Southern Connecticut and St. Peter's to Lehigh, Fordham, Delaware, and Cornell. Just my thoughts.

I don't think everyone needs to jump on Ralph about the GPI. Its importance is minimal, the committee has their own poll and methods to determine at-large bids. I'm even in favor of computers being used in picking teams. However, that's more for sports like hockey, where there's a larger sample size to more accurately compare so many teams. Of course, Ralph should know better than to use last year's rankings to justify this year's teams :nono: ;)

[Dane96]

Albany definately. CCSU should get consideration, but but i think there's a bit of difference when comparing Marist, Southern Connecticut and St. Peter's to Lehigh, Fordham, Delaware, and Cornell. Just my thoughts.

I don't think everyone needs to jump on Ralph about the GPI. Its importance is minimal, the committee has their own poll and methods to determine at-large bids. I'm even in favor of computers being used in picking teams. However, that's more for sports like hockey, where there's a larger sample size to more accurately compare so many teams. Of course, Ralph should know better than to use last year's rankings to justify this year's teams :nono: ;)


For the record, Ralph commented on a question asking whether the CCSU-Albany winner should get an at-large if undefeated. Here is his quote: "let's see what the GPI sez, starting 10/3"

Ralph was using the GPI to justify the exclusion or inclusion of an NEC team, hence my remarks. When pressed, he said the auto (OVC and MEAC) should be used to exclude the NEC from an auto.

Call a spade a spade.

I believe the GPI is useless...as are all computer based rankings.

[youwouldno]

Hey Dane, problem with your argument: the computers rate the NEC low for a reason: it's a weak conference. If NEC teams all played and beat good I-AA programs on a regular basis, the computers would love the NEC.

[*****]

... Ralph should know better than to use last year's rankings to justify this year's teams...I prefaced my observations, what else can I do? Geez, you folks are too touchy. :nono:

[aceinthehole]

Albany definately. CCSU should get consideration, but but i think there's a bit of difference when comparing Marist, Southern Connecticut and St. Peter's to Lehigh, Fordham, Delaware, and Cornell. Just my thoughts.

I don't think everyone needs to jump on Ralph about the GPI. Its importance is minimal, the committee has their own poll and methods to determine at-large bids. I'm even in favor of computers being used in picking teams. However, that's more for sports like hockey, where there's a larger sample size to more accurately compare so many teams. Of course, Ralph should know better than to use last year's rankings to justify this year's teams :nono: ;)

Listen its too early to be serious about playoff bids (its only week 3). But the point is the NEC wins have value too.

We all agree if UA runs the table they have a strong argument to be included.

Now if CCSU were to do the same, it would have to include wins over Albany, Monmouth, and Stony Brook. Those are 3 "quality wins" from NEC play, plus the win at GSU, add commanding performances vs. Marist and St. Petes, and finally the fact they finish will 11 regular season wins - that should warrant STRONG CONSIDERATION.

The same holds true for Monmouth. They have wins at Fordham, vs. Morgan State, and play Colgate next week. Again, to run the tabe they have to beat Albany, CCSU, and Stony Brook. These conference wins are just as strong as MEAC conference wins!

The only thing that could really hurt the NEC is if there is a 3 way tie - CCSU beats UA, UA beats Monmouth, and Monmouth beats CCSU. If we all finish 6-1 in NEC play and everyone wins out that would stink.

[*****]

... We all agree if UA runs the table they have a strong argument to be included...Albany lost to Fordham, Stony Brook has losses to Hofstra and Georgetown. :bang: :bang: :bang: Only CCSU and Monmouth have a chance going undefeated or without a damning loss.

[youwouldno]

Wait, didnt Furman win a National Title a few years ago with a damning loss.

Right.

Ralph...everyone stated early on, if the Danes could go 2-2 or 3-1, win a win over Delaware, in the OOC we would be considered.

Now you take the other side...just for giggles.

Don't compare the NEC to the SoCon. Albany would finish last in the SoCon. And the NEC has zero shot at a NC, whereas the SoCon has a good shot every single year.

May as well compare the SoCon to the SEC.

[*****]

Which is a fancy way of saying its a weighted average of computer rankings and human polls.
If it indicates who should be considered, how high must a team rank? If there are only 8 at large spots, must a team finish in the top-16 to be "seriously considered?"
I understand Ralph's distinction that the index does not actually select the teams, but really can a team finish ranked 24th and still make it as an at large if there are more "eligible" teams that finished ahead of them?Yes, the GPI is just an indicator, no matter that it is highly accurate. There is almost every year a team that is not GPI #16 (playoff eligible) that gets chosen over another team that IS #16. But usually it is the autobids who are not in the top 16.

[UAalum72]

Don't compare the NEC to the SoCon. Albany would finish last in the SoCon. And the NEC has zero shot at a NC, whereas the SoCon has a good shot every single year.

May as well compare the SoCon to the SEC.
And where would Hampton finish in the So Con?

I guess I was confused before. Now I understand that to get into the playoffs, an NEC team would have to:
1. Figure out four years ahead of time who will be the top four teams in the top four other conferences
2. Schedule all of them, preferably at mid-season so they can't say the kinks aren't worked out yet, but also so they haven't been worn down or gotten injuries from their 'tough' scholarship schedules.
3. Make sure the second- and third- place NEC teams also schedule teams ranked 5-12 in this future season.
4. NEC must win all twelve games by at least 42-0, all on the road, and no doubt with no penalties called on the 'traditional powers' so the refs can't take the games away from them.
5. Go undefeated in conference, because we can't afford to lose to a team from our conf. who's beaten the 5-8 teams.

Think that would satisfy you?:bang:

[aceinthehole]

Albany lost to Fordham, Stony Brook has losses to Hofstra and Georgetown. :bang: :bang: :bang: Only CCSU and Monmouth have a chance going undefeated or without a damning loss.

Dude ... I meant from here on out. Do I have to be that clear, can you not read things in context? You know damn well I know that UA has a loss!

Do you like to challange NEC fans on everything just for fun, or what?

[JohnStOnge]

Don't know. But, as was the case with the Coastal Carolina situation last year, I think it'd be interesting to have a team from one of the conferences "on the outside" get in so we can see how they do.

I remember when people assumed the Patriot League couldn't compete...and we learned that is clearly can.

[*****]

Dude ... I meant from here on out. Do I have to be that clear, can you not read things in context? You know damn well I know that UA has a loss!
Do you like to challange NEC fans on everything just for fun, or what?Naw AITH, just stating facts. This is an imperfect communication medium so it is best to be as clear as possible.

[youwouldno]

And where would Hampton finish in the So Con?

I guess I was confused before. Now I understand that to get into the playoffs, an NEC team would have to:
1. Figure out four years ahead of time who will be the top four teams in the top four other conferences
2. Schedule all of them, preferably at mid-season so they can't say the kinks aren't worked out yet, but also so they haven't been worn down or gotten injuries from their 'tough' scholarship schedules.
3. Make sure the second- and third- place NEC teams also schedule teams ranked 5-12 in this future season.
4. NEC must win all twelve games by at least 42-0, all on the road, and no doubt with no penalties called on the 'traditional powers' so the refs can't take the games away from them.
5. Go undefeated in conference, because we can't afford to lose to a team from our conf. who's beaten the 5-8 teams.

Think that would satisfy you?:bang:

No, actually what needs to happen is for all NEC teams to schedule challenging OOC games. Wagner plays nobody. St. Francis was killed by Duquesne and Delaware State. Sacred Heart at least played Lafayette this year and Holy Cross last year, losing both. Robert Morris lost to Dayton.

So, you see, the NEC AS A CONFERENCE has a ton of horrific losses, and a few OK wins. That's why the computers and rational people say the conference is weak. Because it's the truth.

Oh, and Hampton is much better than any team in the NEC.

[colgate13]

Does anyone really, really think Albany can advance in the playoffs?

If Holy Cross can beat Minnesota in the Frozen Four, then yes, Albany or CCSU can advance in the playoffs.

To preclude them is a self-fullfilling prophecy that they can't compete.

The bar being set here is ridiculous! Schedule Ga. Southern and Delaware and suddenly, it's not enough!:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[aceinthehole]

If Holy Cross can beat Minnesota in the Frozen Four, then yes, Albany or CCSU can advance in the playoffs.

To preclude them is a self-fullfilling prophecy that they can't compete.

The bar being set here is ridiculous! Schedule Ga. Southern and Delaware and suddenly, it's not enough!:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Thanks 13 - you are one of our strongest supporters. :hurray:

This is my problem - there is no criteria for the AQ because football is the exception to the NCAAs AQ policy for every other sport. Every "expert" on this board seems to know what qualifys as "playoff caliber" football team. The NCAA needs to step up and address this issue.

Some of the arrogance on this board is comical. And every excuse everyone has to offer on why to EXCLUDE the NEC from an AQ is beoynd logic. Its old guard mentality - which may explain why PL fans generally support the NEC. Its not just the fans on this board, but its also the coaches and administration from the AQ conferences!

We just beat perennial playoff programs, arguably the 2 most sucessful I-AA programs in the history of the subdivision on the road, yet we still get excuses. The best part is everyone is looking for us to fail so they can justify their own warped view.

[youwouldno]

What kind of fool thinks 2 wins make a conference worthy of an automatic playoff bid???

[*****]

... The bar being set here is ridiculous! Schedule Ga. Southern and Delaware and suddenly, it's not enough!:confused::confused::confused::confused:Yea h, some here are ridiculous. But I think they are talking conference wide, AQ talk. As we all know, the top of the NEC is very competitive this year so far. But there is a reason the SoCon wasn't the top GPI conference last year when it's team won the title, same with the A-10 in 2003. Heck, WKU wasn't even the top GPI team AFTER they won the title in 2002! The GPI isn't a popularity contest. But all those finished very near to the top.

[aceinthehole]

Yeah, some here are ridiculous. But I think they are talking conference wide, AQ talk. As we all know, the top of the NEC is very competitive this year so far. But there is a reason the SoCon wasn't the top GPI conference last year when it's team won the title, same with the A-10 in 2003. Heck, WKU wasn't even the top GPI team AFTER they won the title in 2002! The GPI isn't a popularity contest. But all those finished very near to the top.

So what? The GPI is not a criteria for a conference AQ. It is not officially endorsed by the NCAA for any purpose.

Follow my logic: If the "top of the NEC" will be competative , those will be the only teams that earn the AQ. Does anyone think a team other than UA, CCSU, or Monmouth will will the NEC this year? Do you think Robert Morris is going to finish 7-0 in Conference and win the title? The OOC schedule is an indicator of who will likely win the NEC title and right now there are 3 leaders. This isn't MBB where the hot team in the conference tourney earns the AQ and 'weakens' the tourney.

The AQ is awarded in every NCAA team sport except football to the qualifing conference champ. Many here wish to EXCLUDE us

[*****]

So what? ... The AQ is awarded in every NCAA team sport except football to the qualifing conference champ...Now you see. You can't compare football, the tail that wags the dog, the sport with more participants than any other, the sport that costs the most to be competitive, the bedrock of collegiate sports, to ANY OTHER COLLEGIATE SPORT.

So what???? Whatever. Toss out all logic and just say it, despite what anyone else says WE DESERVE AN AUTOBID over better achieving conferences.

[JALMOND]

They can't go undefeated, they already lost to Fordham.

Albany lost to Fordham. So what are we talking about? Albany's loss will exclude them regardless. CCSU did not play a strong schedule and barely squeaked by a DII team this weekend. How does that compare to the number of competitive games played across the country between I-A and I-AA? Instead of playing the Southern Connecticuts of the world, take the money game and play Boston College or UConn. That alone would give the NEC more respect, instead of playing a cream puff schedule.

[dbackjon]

Albany lost to Fordham. So what are we talking about? Albany's loss will exclude them regardless. CCSU did not play a strong schedule and barely squeaked by a DII team this weekend. How does that compare to the number of competitive games played across the country between I-A and I-AA? Instead of playing the Southern Connecticuts of the world, take the money game and play Boston College or UConn. That alone would give the NEC more respect, instead of playing a cream puff schedule.


Jalmond - the NEC is making great strides - in years past, they would not have been even playing UD or GSU, let alone beating them. And CCSU's DII team was their rival, which usually ends up closer games. As the NEC adds schollies, you will see a better schedule.

Too early to speculate on whether they deserve an at-large bid - too many games to play!!

[UAalum72]

Instead of playing the Southern Connecticuts of the world, take the money game and play Boston College or UConn. That alone would give the NEC more respect, instead of playing a cream puff schedule.
See, I didn't realize playing a I-A is now a requirement to get in the I-AA playoffs. I thought beating storied I-AA programs would be enough.

[downbythebeach]

Instead of playing the Southern Connecticuts of the world, take the money game and play Boston College or UConn. That alone would give the NEC more respect, instead of playing a cream puff schedule.

Yeah, you got something there, but that sounds a lot like Youngstown State last year.....and we all know what happened there.

[art vandelay]

i thought mid major teams were not allaowed in our playoffs because they have there own. how can they play for both championships at once?:eyebrow:

[Dane96]

Well...art, you must pay attention...THERE ARE NO MID-MAJOR PLAYOFFS... never have been, never will be.

BOY, OH BOY!

[*****]

i thought mid major teams were not allaowed in our playoffs because they have there own. how can they play for both championships at once?:eyebrow:artv, every team that plays I-AA is eligible for the NCAA's top football championship. The playoff committee decides who gets chosen.

[GeauxColonels]

Well...art, you must pay attention...THERE ARE NO MID-MAJOR PLAYOFFS... never have been, never will be.

BOY, OH BOY!
I think he's referring to the game that is to be played between the NEC and Pioneer League Champions dubbed The Gridiron Classic to be played on November 18 this year.

[JALMOND]

See, I didn't realize playing a I-A is now a requirement to get in the I-AA playoffs. I thought beating storied I-AA programs would be enough.

Beating "storied" I-AA programs helps, but c'mon. A loss to Fordham and you should still be considered over teams like Furman? Portland State? Idaho State? Nicholls State? Richmond?

[*****]

Fordham may still win the PL AQ like Colgate did last year after losing to CCSU...

[*****]

I think he's referring to the game that is to be played between the NEC and Pioneer League Champions dubbed The Gridiron Classic to be played on November 18 this year.I am SO THERE!

[GD84]

LET US REMEMBER, THE WINNER OF THE NEC PLAYS THE WINNER OF THE PIONEER LEAGUE IN THE GRIDIRON CLASSIC...THAT MOST LIKELY WILL BE SAN DIEGO IF ALL FALLS INTO PLACE.

MEANING EACH TEAM WOULD GET ONE EXTRA BIG CONTEST TO PROVE THEMSELVES.

AND

THE WAY ITS LOOKING, THAT WILL END UP BEING THE MID-MAJOR NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, BASED ON THE MID MAJOR RANKINGS.

IF A NEC TEAM WINS THAT, YOUR GOING TO DENY THEN THE MID-MAJOR NATIONAL CHAMPION INELIGABLE TO PLAY, BASED ON THE TYPE OF SEASON THEY ARE HAVING....HMMMM, I DONT KNOW

[UAalum72]

Beating "storied" I-AA programs helps, but c'mon. A loss to Fordham and you should still be considered over teams like Furman? Portland State? Idaho State? Nicholls State? Richmond?
Consider a conference champion over a team that finishes third or fourth in their own conference? Sure.

[Dane96]

LET US REMEMBER, THE WINNER OF THE NEC PLAYS THE WINNER OF THE PIONEER LEAGUE IN THE GRIDIRON CLASSIC...THAT MOST LIKELY WILL BE SAN DIEGO IF ALL FALLS INTO PLACE.

MEANING EACH TEAM WOULD GET ONE EXTRA BIG CONTEST TO PROVE THEMSELVES.

AND

THE WAY ITS LOOKING, THAT WILL END UP BEING THE MID-MAJOR NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, BASED ON THE MID MAJOR RANKINGS.

IF A NEC TEAM WINS THAT, YOUR GOING TO DENY THEN THE MID-MAJOR NATIONAL CHAMPION INELIGABLE TO PLAY, BASED ON THE TYPE OF SEASON THEY ARE HAVING....HMMMM, I DONT KNOW

Ok...I hate to do this because GD84 is great (one of our student radio guys) but I need to set the record straight for the others who have harped on this issue.

THE GRIDIRON CLASSIC, if a PFL or NEC team were invited to the playoffs, WOULD BE DEAD ON ARRIVAL...period, end of story, no matter what Patty V. and her limited scholarship views are.

The NCAA clearly changed the rules this year and but in a GI CLASSIC bylaw that clearly states the PFL and NEC will play in the GI Classic, however a team playing in the GI Classic cannot ALSO PLAY IN THE PLAYOFFS, if invited to said playoffs.

So...if the Danes or any of these teams manage to get a bid...and that is a LONG WAY OFF...to the playoffs, you will see them reject the GI Classic, Patti V. huff and puff about lawsuits (which would be a classic because she would be denying kids an opportunity) between the PFL and NEC...and then the game would just dissipate.

She wants non-scholly ball...the NEC does not. This game is DOA anyway in a few years even without the playoff bid.

[youwouldno]

I doubt there are many players in the entire NEC that would appear on the 2-deep of any top I-AA team, i.e. UNH, Richmond, Furman, App St, Ill St, etc. I mean I'm sure a few could be backups at various positions depending on the team in question, but seriously... how many NEC players are even on full scholarship?

Even if it was the case that the NEC had 3 'good' teams, which I don't really buy but just for argument's sake, that still means the NEC is a weak conference. Even if those three teams could play with good I-AA teams, their in-conference schedules provide them with no challenges outside each other. In the SoCon, for instance, Furman has to face App St, reigning I-AA champ, GSU, most I-AA titles, WCU, just beat a ranked opponent, UTC, a solid team that played WKU tough on the road, and the Citadel and Elon have good coaches and improving teams.

Elon, for instance, would probably win the NEC.

[Pard4Life]

Fordham may still win the PL AQ like Colgate did last year after losing to CCSU...

:eyebrow: xlolx Yeeeeah....

[McNeese75]

I am SO THERE!

Damn Ralph, looking at your Avatar I feel like I am looking at the Wizard of Oz after the curtain opened :D

[GannonFan]

All bickering aside, we won't know how good these wins are, from a playoff worthy aspect, until the season is close to being over. CC St has it pretty tough because outside of GSU, the OOC slate is pretty bare. Albany has the best shot, but now they have to hope that Lehigh and Delaware turn their seasons around and at least be .500 teams - if those teams go in the crapper, it's still two nice wins for the Danes but the playoff worthieness of those wins will be greatly diminished. When you looked at the games coming into the season, you would've said if Albany could go 10-1 with wins at Lehigh and Delaware, you'd say they'd be a sure thing for the playoffs. But that was when Lehigh and Delaware looked like top 25 teams. Lehigh's now lost to Princeton to boot and has a tough game against Harvard before they even get in conference, where Colgate and Lafayette await. Who knows about UD - well get the first answer to that when they play URI this weekend. UD could still right the ship and have a good season, which will be a huge boost to Albany's playoff chances should they win out. A UD that sinks well below .500 could drag Albany's playoff hopes with them, though.

[LUHawker]

My :twocents: on this topic. The NEC teams have posted some very nice wins this year. But Albany laid an egg with Fordham and CCSU struggled last week. Even the best teams have some bad days, but the point is that I think NEC teams are still inconsistent (see CCSU last year defeat Colgate and then get housed by URI) and that at the end of the season this will be a moot point because UA and CCSU may sustain a loss or two. Ultimately, if UAlbany actually wins out and posts a 10-1 record, I think they have a legitimate shot at a bid, but it will only happen if there aren't other worthy contenders from playoff conferences.

[DUPFLFan]

She wants non-scholly ball...

No she doesn't, she doesn't want anything to compete with her Gateway teams.

[danefan]

I doubt there are many players in the entire NEC that would appear on the 2-deep of any top I-AA team, i.e. UNH, Richmond, Furman, App St, Ill St, etc. I mean I'm sure a few could be backups at various positions depending on the team in question, but seriously... how many NEC players are even on full scholarship?

Even if it was the case that the NEC had 3 'good' teams, which I don't really buy but just for argument's sake, that still means the NEC is a weak conference. Even if those three teams could play with good I-AA teams, their in-conference schedules provide them with no challenges outside each other. In the SoCon, for instance, Furman has to face App St, reigning I-AA champ, GSU, most I-AA titles, WCU, just beat a ranked opponent, UTC, a solid team that played WKU tough on the road, and the Citadel and Elon have good coaches and improving teams.

Elon, for instance, would probably win the NEC.


Ummm....please don't rank playing ability on whether or not a player is on scholarship. You'd be surprised the talent at non-scholarship schools. In the past and at the lower end of the the non-scholly or limited scholly teams, the reason for most of the non-competitiveness was depth. Not lack of overall talent. Thinking that there aren't "players in the entire NEC that would appear on the 2-deep of any top I-AA team, i.e. UNH, Richmond, Furman, App St, Ill St, etc" is just plain ignorant.

Maybe we should ask the Delaware or Lehigh fans how they feel about Colin Disch?

[GD84]

Kurt Campbell, drafted by the Packers two years ago...PLAYED HIS FOOTBALL AT ALBANY...dont tell me there isnt talent. Bob Ford is our coach, go look at his track record and how many coaches he has produced/worked with over the years...HE KNOWS HOW TO FIND THE HIDEN GEMS

[Dane96]

I doubt there are many players in the entire NEC that would appear on the 2-deep of any top I-AA team, i.e. UNH, Richmond, Furman, App St, Ill St, etc. I mean I'm sure a few could be backups at various positions depending on the team in question, but seriously... how many NEC players are even on full scholarship?

Even if it was the case that the NEC had 3 'good' teams, which I don't really buy but just for argument's sake, that still means the NEC is a weak conference. Even if those three teams could play with good I-AA teams, their in-conference schedules provide them with no challenges outside each other. In the SoCon, for instance, Furman has to face App St, reigning I-AA champ, GSU, most I-AA titles, WCU, just beat a ranked opponent, UTC, a solid team that played WKU tough on the road, and the Citadel and Elon have good coaches and improving teams.

Elon, for instance, would probably win the NEC.

Ever see Billy Madison?! We are all dumber having to read this post.

YOU...need help.

[JoltinJoe]

Beating "storied" I-AA programs helps, but c'mon. A loss to Fordham and you should still be considered over teams like Furman? Portland State? Idaho State? Nicholls State? Richmond?

Hey, maybe a win over Fordham right now is not a big deal, but that aside, Fordham is certainly more "storied" than any of the programs you mentioned.

[colgate13]

What kind of fool thinks 2 wins make a conference worthy of an automatic playoff bid???

The same fool that awards automatic playoff bids to two conferences who haven't won a playoff game in YEARS.

Double standards are being applied, plain and simple. Bottomline.

The NEC is a scholarship conference winning games against 'top' I-AA programs. Anyone care to look up the combined records of these upsets? Lehigh, Delaware, Georgia Southern and Colgate are 225-81 this decade. What more could you ask of a conference?

[GannonFan]

Anyone care to look up the combined records of these upsets? Lehigh, Delaware, Georgia Southern and Colgate are 225-81 this decade. What more could you ask of a conference?

Well, what these teams have done in prior years ultimately means little when it comes selection time. What will matter is what these teams were this year - looking at the teams the NEC have beaten (UD, GSU, Lehigh, and Fordham) they are a collective 4-6. If that percentage gets worse as the year plays on, the wins won't matter as much come playoff time than if the records were closer to historical records. The NEC should root like heck for these teams now - a 10-1 Albany team probably makes the playoffs if Lehigh and UD are around .500 or better. CCSU would need a miracle based on a lighter schedule.

[Go...gate]

So what? The GPI is not a criteria for a conference AQ. It is not officially endorsed by the NCAA for any purpose.

Follow my logic: If the "top of the NEC" will be competative , those will be the only teams that earn the AQ. Does anyone think a team other than UA, CCSU, or Monmouth will will the NEC this year? Do you think Robert Morris is going to finish 7-0 in Conference and win the title? The OOC schedule is an indicator of who will likely win the NEC title and right now there are 3 leaders. This isn't MBB where the hot team in the conference tourney earns the AQ and 'weakens' the tourney.

The AQ is awarded in every NCAA team sport except football to the qualifing conference champ. Many here wish to EXCLUDE us

Many also wish to include you. The NEC is making a hell of a statement.

[Go...gate]

Hey, maybe a win over Fordham right now is not a big deal, but that aside, Fordham is certainly more "storied" than any of the programs you mentioned.

Fordham is going to be fine. Don't get down. :)

[ChickenMan]

a 10-1 Albany team probably makes the playoffs if Lehigh and UD are around .500 or better. CCSU would need a miracle based on a lighter schedule.


Maybe... but that one loss was to an apparently really bad Fordham team who was beaten soundly by Monmouth and completely blown out by Columbia. .

[colgate13]

Well, what these teams have done in prior years ultimately means little when it comes selection time. What will matter is what these teams were this year

I disagree. I think this is a bit of a unique situation. How in the world is the NEC supposed to know what teams will be 'top' teams before they are scheduled? The fact that the NEC has been locked out of the playoff autobid status despite applying for it now looks frankly silly when they have proven they can beat teams that are considered I-AA powers. You'll have a real tough time justifying the exclusion of a 10-1 Albany or 11-0 CCSU for a 4th A-10 team. Actually, I think they'll be taking that second PL bid for the past two years.

Bottom line, the NEC has been excluded from the free playoff pass conferences like the MEAC, OVC and PL enjoy because of perceived inability to compete. They've proven they can compete. If they put up a team like Albany or CCSU 10-1/11-0, they're in. And I think there will be more serious grumblings about playoff expansion.:twocents:

[GannonFan]

I disagree. I think this is a bit of a unique situation. How in the world is the NEC supposed to know what teams will be 'top' teams before they are scheduled?



You can't tell the future so you can't fault the NEC for scheduling teams that may or may not be very good this year, but conversely you can't reward them even when those teams may be truly awful. It's life, tough luck. The same could be for any other team - you think you put together a great schedule, and then those teams turn out to be duds - not due to any fault of your own, but it is what it is and the only thing you can be judged on is who you played that year - not whether the uniforms you played that year were used by better teams several years before.

[colgate13]

It's life, tough luck.
The unique part of the equation is the conference's desire for an autobid. The 'tough luck' arguement doesn't hold water for me when these schools are told:

1 - they can't compete, that's why they don't get an autobid
2 - but hey, if you schedule and beat some top teams, you'll get in no problem
3 - they actually DO compete and do beat some historically good teams
4 - It's still not good enough. The teams you beat had 'down' years.

There has to be an opportunity here.

[GannonFan]

The unique part of the equation is the conference's desire for an autobid. The 'tough luck' arguement doesn't hold water for me when these schools are told:

1 - they can't compete, that's why they don't get an autobid
2 - but hey, if you schedule and beat some top teams, you'll get in no problem
3 - they actually DO compete and do beat some historically good teams
4 - It's still not good enough. The teams you beat had 'down' years.

There has to be an opportunity here.

Well, there is an opportunity but unfortunately what happens to your opposition is part of the equation. If UD and Lehigh went 1-10, hypothetically, would you still consider those wins to be as significant as you claim? They can't be, and that's simply because the quality of your opponents is measured on the opponents you played that year, not what those teams have done historically. By your rationale, you could argue that a win over an Ivy League team that won a national title at the DI-A level (well, at the equivalent of DI-A 1920's style) should carry weight even though that team may not have been good for sometime now. CCSU didn't beat AP and the GSU team of back to back titles in '99 and '00 - Albany didn't beat the Lehigh team that beat W. Illinois and went to the quarters in 2000 - Albany didn't beat the 2003 UD team that beat Colgate 40-0 (sorry, had to bring that up ;) ), those teams beat a 1-1 GSU, a 1-2 Lehigh, and a 1-1 UD team. We have no idea where those teams will end up, but since those are the opponents they played those will be the teams that will impact how the records of an Albany and CCSU are viewed. Coastal had the same thing last year - they beat JMU, which looked incredible, but then some losses by JMU softened that win a bit. JMU still finished strong so Coastal would've gotten in had they not blown the last game of the year. If the teams the NEC beat hover around .500, they will still be good wins - if they drop significantly below that and approach the hypothetical, unfortunately, those wins will be judged of much less value - se la vie. Sometimes luck does matter and if they were unlucky to schedule Lehigh and UD in one of those program's worst years ever (obviously remains to be seen) then they were unlucky and the playoffs could be a pipedream.

[dbackjon]

How's this for a solution: If GSU or Delaware get an at-large invite, they will decline, and turn over the invite to CCSU and Albany :O

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The unique part of the equation is the conference's desire for an autobid. The 'tough luck' arguement doesn't hold water for me when these schools are told:

1 - they can't compete, that's why they don't get an autobid
2 - but hey, if you schedule and beat some top teams, you'll get in no problem
3 - they actually DO compete and do beat some historically good teams
4 - It's still not good enough. The teams you beat had 'down' years.

There has to be an opportunity here.

Why do I keep thinking of the folks last year that said, "Well, Lafayette didn't deserve to get in as an at-large just because they beat Richmond early, and the Spiders were a different team in November?"

Seems like the thresholds and standards keep changing here on this board. If you're not in the historical "power conferences" like the SoCon/A-10/Big Sky/Gateway, your thresholds are different. That's baloney. UNI and Montana State losing to D-IIs should be a major factor in their at-large consideration come November - it will be very interesting if it comes down to "8-3 Montana State vs. 10-1 Albany" for that 16th spot. My prediction is that MSU will be saying "hey, we beat the worst team in the Big XII and Montana, so we deserve a spot", and most of the community here will be rallying to their side over Albany.

[89Hen]

it will be very interesting if it comes down to "8-3 Montana State vs. 10-1 Albany" for that 16th spot. My prediction is that MSU will be saying "hey, we beat the worst team in the Big XII and Montana, so we deserve a spot", and most of the community here will be rallying to their side over Albany.
That would be an interesting arguement, but it seems that you think there'd be no arguement and that Albany is the correct choice.

I'm not sure at this point which is the correct decision, but... is CU bad this year? Sure, but a bad CU is better then a bad LU or UD, no? MSU would have faced possibly 5 ranked I-AA's and had to have beaten 3 of them in addition to the CU win. Albany would have faced and beaten 1 ranked I-AA who very well could end up sub .500. But if MSU got the bid over Albany all we would hear are cries of "good old boy network"... nevermind the number of quality wins. I'm not saying the clear decision is MSU, but it's not Albany either.

[putter]

It is still a double standard. We always say that teams like Albany, Hampton, etc. need to upgrade their OOC schedule to gain respect within the I-AA world. When they do, we can't come back and say, well the teams you played and beat had down years. If UNH wins the A-10 are you going to say, well the A-10 was down so they don't deserve the #1 seed? Delaware is having a down year, however, Albany did go in a beat you at home so to me that counts for something and if they continue to roll, they should be rewarded for that at the end of the year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That would be an interesting arguement, but it seems that you think there'd be no arguement and that Albany is the correct choice.

I'm not sure at this point which is the correct decision, but... is CU bad this year? Sure, but a bad CU is better then a bad LU or UD, no? MSU would have faced possibly 5 ranked I-AA's and had to have beaten 3 of them in addition to the CU win. Albany would have faced and beaten 1 ranked I-AA who very well could end up sub .500. But if MSU got the bid over Albany all we would hear are cries of "good old boy network"... nevermind the number of quality wins. I'm not saying the clear decision is MSU, but it's not Albany either.

I appreciate your point here, but doesn't this also display the double standard? PSU could *also* finish 3-8, but I'll bet the troops will be rallying around a win against "nationally-ranked Portland State, who was 3-2 at the time". Whereas (say) if Albany beats #25 CCSU this week and CCSU ends up 8-3 or 7-4, these same folks would say "That win over CCSU means nothing - look at CCSU, they lost to Monmouth and Sacred Heart" or some such thing.

Having said that, I do agree that it's not clear at this point if MSU, or Albany, would be the correct choice. But I predict folks here will be rallying around MSU's great performance against a 3-8 team as if they were the Indianapolis Colts.

[89Hen]

I appreciate your point here, but doesn't this also display the double standard?
Yes, it does. You are saying we need to qualify MSU's wins but not Albany's. :nod:

[GannonFan]

It is still a double standard. We always say that teams like Albany, Hampton, etc. need to upgrade their OOC schedule to gain respect within the I-AA world. When they do, we can't come back and say, well the teams you played and beat had down years. If UNH wins the A-10 are you going to say, well the A-10 was down so they don't deserve the #1 seed? Delaware is having a down year, however, Albany did go in a beat you at home so to me that counts for something and if they continue to roll, they should be rewarded for that at the end of the year.

This double standard thing is nonsense - the goalposts aren't being moved anywhere just to justify an argument to keep Albany, or another deserving team, out of the playoffs. They remain the same - schedule good teams, and beat most of them. That's the criteria before the season and it's the criteria come playoff time. What constitutes a good team, however, is the team that played that season, not some season before. Sure, it puts a little luck into scheduling, but it can work both ways and the converse of this is proof of that. What if Fordham all of a sudden reels off a great season and wins the Patriot League? Should Albany not get credit for a close loss to Fordham because when they scheduled them they weren't good and Fordham was coming off a 2-9 season? Should Fordham's poor recent history be used or should the Patriot League championship that they could win this season be used? Of course the answer is the latter - no one would argue otherwise. Same thing if Albany beats Cornell and then Cornell goes on to a great season. No one should care that they've been a total of .500 over the past 2 years, just that they were good this year in the year when Albany actually played them, which is all that matters.

[I-AA Fan]

Both teams have big time, statement wins (CCSU over Ga Southern, UA over Delaware).


Those are big time wins? Sorry, but not in 2006. No play-off.

[89Hen]

If UNH wins the A-10 are you going to say, well the A-10 was down so they don't deserve the #1 seed? Delaware is having a down year, however, Albany did go in a beat you at home so to me that counts for something
Where did anyone say Albany's win doesn't count for something. I'm sure many people voted for Albany in polls because they beat UD in Newark.

As for the UNH arguement, that makes no sense in this debate. UNH will still have to have beaten out UMass, UR, JMU.... teams that are pretty highly ranked in I-AA. UNH wouldn't be crowned the A10 champ for only beating NU, URI, Maine and UD.

[89Hen]

What if Fordham all of a sudden reels off a great season and wins the Patriot League? Should Albany not get credit for a close loss to Fordham because when they scheduled them they weren't good and Fordham was coming off a 2-9 season? Should Fordham's poor recent history be used or should the Patriot League championship that they could win this season be used? Of course the answer is the latter - no one would argue otherwise.
Great point GF. There's your double standard. Somebody earlier mentioned LC and their win over UR. Does anyone really think that UR having a great year after that didn't help LC come playoff time?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What if Fordham all of a sudden reels off a great season and wins the Patriot League? Should Albany not get credit for a close loss to Fordham because when they scheduled them they weren't good and Fordham was coming off a 2-9 season? Should Fordham's poor recent history be used or should the Patriot League championship that they could win this season be used? Of course the answer is the latter - no one would argue otherwise.


Great point GF. There's your double standard. Somebody earlier mentioned LC and their win over UR. Does anyone really think that UR having a great year after that didn't help LC come playoff time?

Absolutely it did. But many folks here were pooh-poohing that win, saying "it came in week two" and "they weren't the same Richmond team that whomped Hampton in the first round of the I-AA playoffs". Are you trying to tell me that last November folks were effusively praising Lafayette's inclusion due to their great win over Richmond? xidiotx

Isn't that's what's happening here with Albany and CCSU? "We don't know how good UD and Georgia Southern is" is what I'm hearing. Of course, when Towson goes 8-3 we're going to hear all about these "quality wins" over (say) 5-6 JMU. Yet those same posters will be strangely silent when it comes to Albany's wins over (say) 9-2 Lehigh and 5-6 Delaware (:D) -- and only because they beat St Francis in their league instead of URI.

[89Hen]

Absolutely it did. But many folks here were pooh-poohing that win, saying "it came in week two" and "they weren't the same Richmond team that whomped Hampton in the first round of the I-AA playoffs". Are you trying to tell me that last November folks were effusively praising Lafayette's inclusion due to their great win over Richmond? xidiotx

Isn't that's what's happening here with Albany and CCSU? "We don't know how good UD and Georgia Southern is" is what I'm hearing. Of course, when Towson goes 8-3 we're going to hear all about these "quality wins" over (say) 5-6 JMU. Yet those same posters will be strangely silent when it comes to Albany's wins over (say) 9-2 Lehigh and 5-6 Delaware (:D) -- and only because they beat St Francis in their league instead of URI.
Your hyperbole has become tiresome. All I'm saying is wait until the games are played before pretending to know what the right answer is and what people will be saying. I think the message has been fairly consistent that the UD win will be good if UD turns out to be a 7-4 or better team and if they go 4-7 Albany's win will become less impressive. I don't see how you can argue anything different.

As for LC and the UR win, OF COURSE YSU fans would claim it to be an inferior win because they felt shafted and were looking for the last team in. I'm sure you remember lots of people who thought YSU should have been in over LC and that was one of their arguements. The only time I recall talking about the UR loss to LC was in arguing with Spider fans that Tutt was the main reason for their success last year (their defense may prove otherwise this year).

[JALMOND]

That would be an interesting arguement, but it seems that you think there'd be no arguement and that Albany is the correct choice.

I'm not sure at this point which is the correct decision, but... is CU bad this year? Sure, but a bad CU is better then a bad LU or UD, no? MSU would have faced possibly 5 ranked I-AA's and had to have beaten 3 of them in addition to the CU win. Albany would have faced and beaten 1 ranked I-AA who very well could end up sub .500. But if MSU got the bid over Albany all we would hear are cries of "good old boy network"... nevermind the number of quality wins. I'm not saying the clear decision is MSU, but it's not Albany either.

If MSU finishes 8-3 with a win over Montana, they might get the auto-bid from the Big Sky (7-1 conference).

But aside from that, most of us here agree that MSU's victory over Colorado was softened quite a bit by a loss to Chadron (DII). Yet no one seems concerned that CCSU's victory over Ga Southern was followed by a close four point win over DII. Some voters moved CCSU into the top 25 because of this. Isn't this the double standard?

I myself would have dropped any team that lost or had a close win over DII. That's just how much faith I have with the I-AA elite and when they play DII.

[MplsBison]

I myself would have dropped any team that lost or had a close win over DII. That's just how much faith I have with the I-AA elite and when they play DII.

What about UNI losing to UND?

[DUPFLFan]

I myself would have dropped any team that lost or had a close win over DII. That's just how much faith I have with the I-AA elite and when they play DII.

Goodbye UNI!!!

[Wmbgskip]

However, as has been pointed out ad nauseum (sp), CCSU is not the I-AA elite, so why dock them for only winning by four over a D-II school? They won the game, afterall, and wouldn't they be docked enough because the game doesn't count towards the seven needed to be playoff eligible?

--Skip

[UD1993]

IMHO- If CCSU wins out they should be in the playoffs. If Albany wins out, I'd say they would be the last team in or 1st team out. (Sadly, the Fordham L may hurt.) They have scheduled the tough teams and have beaten them in the regular season. Let's see how they do in the playoffs.

[JALMOND]

What about UNI losing to UND?

My point exactly. If I were a voting member, UNI would have dropped big time after losing to UND. Same with Montana State. Same with CCSU. To earn one of the eight at-large bids, you need to be considered in the I-AA "elite" for that year. Based on what has happened in I-AA this year (wins and close losses against I-A), I don't see how you can have close games (or even losses) to DII and think you are one of the elite.

[Dane96]

IMHO- If CCSU wins out they should be in the playoffs. If Albany wins out, I'd say they would be the last team in or 1st team out. (Sadly, the Fordham L may hurt.) They have scheduled the tough teams and have beaten them in the regular season. Let's see how they do in the playoffs.


Good lord...educating people is becoming tiresome.

Not a knock on CCSU, but ALBANY has the toughest schedule of the two: Fordham, at Cornell, at Delaware, at Lehigh.

UA has won AT DELAWARE...and AT LEHIGH. IF they won out...they would win AT CORNELL.

That Albany has the toughest schedule of the two isnt even a question at this point...now let's see at the end of the year.

I still think CCSU has a shot if they win out...if not...cue the NEC soapbox.

[PantherRob82]

My point exactly. If I were a voting member, UNI would have dropped big time after losing to UND. Same with Montana State. Same with CCSU. To earn one of the eight at-large bids, you need to be considered in the I-AA "elite" for that year. Based on what has happened in I-AA this year (wins and close losses against I-A), I don't see how you can have close games (or even losses) to DII and think you are one of the elite.

guess we'll just have to take an autobid then. :thumbsup:

[*****]

... If I were a voting member, UNI would have dropped big time after losing to UND. Same with Montana State...Uh UNI and MSU dropped more than anyone in the polls that week... 9-13 spots depending on the poll. Are you saying that is not a bigtime drop???!?

http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=80343

[youwouldno]

It was a shock when JMU only beat a D-II by 4. If someone wants to be considered a good I-AA program, they'll have to accept a higher level of scrutiny for all their games.

[RabidRabbit]

Only the season can bear this out. However, UND IS a POWER D-II, that had to prove to themselves that they're ready to move to FCS. UNI proved to be the very potent symbol for the Sioux.

I predict that UND a) makes the DII play-offs, b) wins one, two, three or four games in the play-offs.

Panthers will need to win their play-off hopes in Gateway. But they still have good potential.

MSU - after Chadron, and UCD, they'll need to show it in the Sky.

[JALMOND]

Uh UNI and MSU dropped more than anyone in the polls that week... 9-13 spots depending on the poll. Are you saying that is not a bigtime drop???!?

http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=80343

Sir Ralph, that is a big time drop, one that was expected for both teams. My point, if you say you want to a big time I-AA program in a big time I-AA conference, how do you justify only winning against a DII by four points? The gap between I-AA and DII is not that narrow. And how do you justify being able to enter the Top 25 off that win?

[*****]

Sir Ralph, that is a big time drop, one that was expected for both teams. My point, if you say you want to a big time I-AA program in a big time I-AA conference, how do you justify only winning against a DII by four points? The gap between I-AA and DII is not that narrow. And how do you justify being able to enter the Top 25 off that win?Woah, you are backpedalling and changing tunes. I am completely confused. Are you now talking about 2004 national champ JMU winning only by four? That was not your original point. Plus JMU was already in the top 25 so justifying entry is not a question... they were already there. Still confused by your post...

[JALMOND]

Woah, you are backpedalling and changing tunes. I am completely confused. Are you now talking about 2004 national champ JMU winning only by four? That was not your original point. Plus JMU was already in the top 25 so justifying entry is not a question... they were already there. Still confused by your post...

Sir Ralph, the big time drops by UNI and MSU were justified (as you said 9-13 spots). JMU never entered the picture, although they probably should have as they, like CCSU, beat a DII by only four points. Based on these results by these three schools against DII (UNI, MSU and now JMU), I don't see where CCSU, Albany and the rest of the NEC schools can honestly say that they are deserving of an at-large bid, and be considered as one of I-AA's elite teams this year. How any of the NEC schools can be in the top 25 is rather baffling to me and I just want to know the rationale of it.

[*****]

ohhhhhhhhhhh. nevermind.

[JALMOND]

Woah, you are backpedalling and changing tunes. I am completely confused. Are you now talking about 2004 national champ JMU winning only by four? That was not your original point. Plus JMU was already in the top 25 so justifying entry is not a question... they were already there. Still confused by your post...

Looking back at all my posts on this, I can see where some (alright, most) posters would get confused. I guess I got caught up in this whole mess. September is too early to get all hot about this. I will give this four to five weeks before approaching this subject again. Hopefully, by then, I will be able to keep my thoughts together (and things will be a little clearer).

Until then, I agree to disagree and I'll leave it at that.

[Dane96]

Sir Ralph, the big time drops by UNI and MSU were justified (as you said 9-13 spots). JMU never entered the picture, although they probably should have as they, like CCSU, beat a DII by only four points. Based on these results by these three schools against DII (UNI, MSU and now JMU), I don't see where CCSU, Albany and the rest of the NEC schools can honestly say that they are deserving of an at-large bid, and be considered as one of I-AA's elite teams this year. How any of the NEC schools can be in the top 25 is rather baffling to me and I just want to know the rationale of it.

Actually, your logic baffles: How does MSU, UNI, and JMU's loss effect an Albany team that beat a ranked team and another team that is a perennial top-25 team, albeit losing for Fordham.

You dismiss the DII losses in your statement above, yet a team losing to a DI team is taken out of the equation?

Yes, WE WILL AGREE TO DISAGREE!