Colgate ruins the shutout

[ChickenMan]

Ivy all over the Patriot...

Columbia 37
Fordham 7

Harvard 31
Holy Cross14

Penn 21
Lafayette 11

Brown 34
Georgetown 21

Princeton 14
Lehigh 10

Colgate 28
Dartmouth 7

[JMU Duke Dog]

I think the Patriot League will be getting only one team into the 2006 playoffs.

[Tod]

Maybe this says more for USDs win over Yale...:eyebrow:

[JMU Duke Dog]

Maybe this says more for USDs win over Yale...:eyebrow:

Maybe San Diego will get the Patriot League's second playoff bid?

[Granite]

Has Dartmouth ever had a decent team? What is their football tradition? UNH has played them over the past few years in an intra-state rivalry game (the "Granite Bowl" - and no, I don't get royalties!) and it has been pretty one-sided.

What's Dartmouth's story?

[UNHknowledge]

As mid-majors continue to recieve scholarships, the the Patriot League will continue to sink. I love the PL, but they MUUUUST get scholarships SOON if they want to hang. The Ivy League will get away with no scholarships for eternity because of academics and tradition.

[bulldog10jw]

Has Dartmouth ever had a decent team? What is their football tradition? UNH has played them over the past few years in an intra-state rivalry game (the "Granite Bowl" - and no, I don't get royalties!) and it has been pretty one-sided.

What's Dartmouth's story?

Dartmouth has a great football tradition. I think they have more Ivy championships than even Penn. They have just been down for the last 10 years or so.

[Pard4Life]

Bucknell is up on Cornell 20-3 just into the 3rd quarter. So we can thank them at least.

Honestly, today's results are a f#%$ing disgrace... most shocking is Columbia over Fordham by 30?! THEY HAVE WALK-ONS PLAYING!

[DFW HOYA]

Has Dartmouth ever had a decent team? What is their football tradition? UNH has played them over the past few years in an intra-state rivalry game (the "Granite Bowl" - and no, I don't get royalties!) and it has been pretty one-sided.

What's Dartmouth's story?

Dartmouth has probably the best tradition of any Ivy school, and was the last Ivy school to be ranked in the AP Top 20 back in the early 1970's.

However, the staff and the school's admissions office have had their issues, none more so than when it was disclosed Dartmouth's admissions director wrote a congratulatory letter to Swarthmore when they dropped their football program, which reads, in part: "My experience at both Wesleyan and Dartmouth is consistent with what you have observed at Swarthmore. I wish this were not true but sadly football, and the culture that surrounds it, is antithetical to the academic mission of colleges such as ours."

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2004/12/10.html

[Pard4Life]

Dartmouth has a great football tradition. I think they have more Ivy championships than even Penn. They have just been down for the last 10 years or so.

Penn has not been a good Ivy team until the 80s. The won one title, in 1959, before dominating the 1980s. Yale has the most.. I think 19. Then, Dartmouth with 17. Or I might even have those reversed... either way, D-mouth has one of the most titles..

[Granite]

Dartmouth has a great football tradition. I think they have more Ivy championships than even Penn. They have just been down for the last 10 years or so.

Interesting, thanks bulldog. I didn't realize that. I'll have to read up on Dartmouth. I would love to see the Dartmouth-UNH game mean something, but lately it's been pretty one-sided.

BTW, I'm in the middle of reading a book about The Game, and its a fascinating read. Its making me really want to experience the Harvard-Yale game.

[colgate13]

We try.

Seriously Patriot League friends. This is a tad disgraceful...

[Pard4Life]

Dartmouth has probably the best tradition of any Ivy school, and was the last Ivy school to be ranked in the AP Top 20 back in the early 1970's.

However, the staff and the school's admissions office have had their issues, none more so than when it was disclosed Dartmouth's admissions director wrote a congratulatory letter to Swarthmore when they dropped their football program, which reads, in part: "My experience at both Wesleyan and Dartmouth is consistent with what you have observed at Swarthmore. I wish this were not true but sadly football, and the culture that surrounds it, is antithetical to the academic mission of colleges such as ours."

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2004/12/10.html

Wow... what a jackass... he must be apart of the Rothkopf school... If I was Dartmouth President and I got wind of that, I'd seriously consider firing him... on that note, all of their athletics are bad... are they worse than Columbia at everything, aside from CU fencing... can't think of anything Big Green is good at... soccer? skiing?

[colgate13]

I think the Patriot League will be getting only one team into the 2006 playoffs.

The mistake there is that underlying your statement is a belief that the Ivy doesn't have good football teams. Wrong.:twocents:

[Franks Tanks]

Maybe San Diego will get the Patriot League's second playoff bid?


Albany has already beat Lehigh on the road and as of right now has a 17-3 lead over Delaware. If they can hold on and defeat Delaware and survive the reast of their schedule I really dont know how you could deny them a bid. Also it sure look like the Patriot League will only get one bid this year. Lehigh is already1-2., and Lafayette's performance against Penn today was less than impressive. Colgate should win the league and get the sole bid this year

[bulldog10jw]

Dartmouth has probably the best tradition of any Ivy school



http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2004/12/10.html

Well, I wouldn't go THAT far. But they do have a great tradition.

[Andy]

Lehigh is already1-2., and Lafayette's performance against Penn today was less than impressive. Colgate should win the league and get the sole bid this year

You're giving Colgate the league based on a loss to UMASS and a win over a mediocre Dartmouth.? If Gate had played Penn and lost, and the Pards defeated Dartmouth would you have said LC "should" win? IMO some are too down on the Pards right now, Penn is very good, as I believe the rest of their season will prove. The PL is far from decided.

[colgate13]

You're giving Colgate the league based on a loss to UMASS and a win over a mediocre Dartmouth.? If Gate had played Penn and lost, and the Pards defeated Dartmouth would you have said LC "should" win? IMO some are too down on the Pards right now, Penn is very good, as I believe the rest of their season will prove. The PL is far from decided.

100% correct.

But Colgate folks are feeling good. Defense was the big question, and we're showing we can play. The offense is starting to show a pulse. Good times.

[Pard4Life]

You're giving Colgate the league based on a loss to UMASS and a win over a mediocre Dartmouth.? If Gate had played Penn and lost, and the Pards defeated Dartmouth would you have said LC "should" win? IMO some are too down on the Pards right now, Penn is very good, as I believe the rest of their season will prove. The PL is far from decided.

True, but we still have many problems to address. I wrote a synopsis over on voy. Basically, problems in our earlier games were magnified and exposed by a quality team. That won't fly vs. Harvard, Colgate, and Lehigh. Heck.. even Princeton and Yale.

[bulldog10jw]

Penn has not been a good Ivy team until the 80s. The won one title, in 1959, before dominating the 1980s. Yale has the most.. I think 19. Then, Dartmouth with 17. Or I might even have those reversed... either way, D-mouth has one of the most titles..

Just off the top of my head, maybe not exact, but I'll be pretty close(I think):

Dartmouth - 17 titles
Yale -13
Penn -12
Harvard -9
Princeton -7
Brown -4
Cornell -2
Columbia -1

remember, just an educated guess. What do you think, Ivytalk?

[Pard4Life]

Just off the top of my head, maybe not exact, but I'll be pretty close(I think):

Dartmouth - 17 titles
Yale -13
Penn -12
Harvard -9
Princeton -7
Brown -4
Cornell -2
Columbia -1

remember, just an educated guess. What do you think, Ivytalk?

Brown might have three... last year, one in the 1970s, and another...

That one by Columbia is sad.. not even an outright too.. : smh :

[Ivytalk]

Just off the top of my head, maybe not exact, but I'll be pretty close(I think):

Dartmouth - 17 titles
Yale -13
Penn -12
Harvard -9
Princeton -7
Brown -4
Cornell -2
Columbia -1

remember, just an educated guess. What do you think, Ivytalk?

Sounds right to me, bulldog, if you count ties for the title. I'm pretty sure that 2005 was Brown's very first "sole possession" Ivy title.

[ngineer]

There is still time for people to get their ship righted. Lehigh showed today that talent, alone, does not win games. But unless the PL teams show more moxie in the next couple weeks with the OOC games, only the champ will be going to the playoffs.

[Andy]

True, but we still have many problems to address. I wrote a synopsis over on voy. Basically, problems in our earlier games were magnified and exposed by a quality team. That won't fly vs. Harvard, Colgate, and Lehigh. Heck.. even Princeton and Yale.

You're focused on the negatives, P4L, while I'm trying to fight my frustration by looking at the positives...400 yards of offense, 25 1st downs, a 99 yard drive against a good Penn D. Our defense didn't play badly after that first Penn drive, they only scored 7 in the 2nd half and that on the short field after the fake came up a yard short.

What I didn't like and what we're not used to seeing were the pre-snap penalties, the shotgun snaps into the turf and what I thought was some uncharacteristicly poor judgement from Brad. Three drives inside the 10 and we only got 3 pts. But, lots of fans bailed on the Pards last year after some Ivy losses and we still won a title share. I'm not about to concede the darn thing because we lost to the best team any PL team played today.

13, of course it's great to see you back and best of luck in the new position. Man, I could live in NH. Anyway, no slight to Gate intended, you guys should feel good, congrats on the win.

[Harvard Worship]

Sounds right to me, bulldog, if you count ties for the title. I'm pretty sure that 2005 was Brown's very first "sole possession" Ivy title.

The list of the Ivy League Champions can be found at: http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/sports/ivy-champs.asp?intSID=3

I checked the count of Dartmouth titles & it's 17, so the rest of your information is probably correct too.

[bulldog10jw]

The list of the Ivy League Champions can be found at: http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/sports/ivy-champs.asp?intSID=3

I checked the count of Dartmouth titles & it's 17, so the rest of your information is probably correct too.

Looks like I was off a couple with Harvard (they have 11) and missed Penn(13), Cornell(3), Princeton(8), and Brown(3) by 1.

[cosmo here]

You're giving Colgate the league based on a loss to UMASS and a win over a mediocre Dartmouth.? If Gate had played Penn and lost, and the Pards defeated Dartmouth would you have said LC "should" win? IMO some are too down on the Pards right now, Penn is very good, as I believe the rest of their season will prove. The PL is far from decided.

Anybody who's saying that the PL is a one-bid league after today is doing it on a knee-jerk reaction to Lehigh's loss to Princeton, not Lafayette's loss to Penn. Lehigh didn't get a bid to the playoffs last year and the PL still got two teams in. I think it's safe to say now that unless Lehigh wins the auto bid, they're not in . . to quote Groller last week, it's really hard to make it at 9-2, at 8-3 it's impossible (except Lafayette made it last year at 8-3 :rolleyes: ) . . however, both Lafayette and Colgate have a legitimate chance at both.

[carney2]

Keeping with the theme of this thread (Colgate Ruins the Shutout) it needs to be stated that Bucknell beat Cornell by a 20 - 5 score. Still it was Ivy 5, Patriots 2.

The story is told that almost two decades ago the Ivies "created" the Patriot League so that they would have someone to play - and beat - in football. At times some of us have referred to the PL as the "Patsy League." As a group, today they earned that name for at least another year. I, for one, shall not hesitate to use it until they prove that it is no longer applicable.

Keeping with the theme of Ivy/Patsy Challenge, next week's games are

Georgetown @ Columbia
Lafayette @ Princeton

Do I hear an "Ivies 2, Patsys 0" out there?

[LeopardFan04]

Keeping with the theme of Ivy/Patsy Challenge, next week's games are

Georgetown @ Columbia
Lafayette @ Princeton

Do I hear an "Ivies 2, Patsys 0" out there?


I think we could certainly get it to 5-4 for the season next week...of course it could also be 7-2 :rolleyes:

[Franks Tanks]

You're giving Colgate the league based on a loss to UMASS and a win over a mediocre Dartmouth.? If Gate had played Penn and lost, and the Pards defeated Dartmouth would you have said LC "should" win? IMO some are too down on the Pards right now, Penn is very good, as I believe the rest of their season will prove. The PL is far from decided.

We are not a very good team right now. Defense looked mediocre and our 0-line play isnt what we have grown used too teh last few years. With that being said its still eraly and we can make some big strides down the stretch as we have done the previous two years. Maybe Im a bit pessimistic but I came away from todays game very dissapointed.

[cosmo here]

We are not a very good team right now. Defense looked mediocre and our 0-line play isnt what we have grown used too teh last few years. With that being said its still eraly and we can make some big strides down the stretch as we have done the previous two years. Maybe Im a bit pessimistic but I came away from todays game very dissapointed.

Defense looked mediocre:
3 scoring drives . . the first possession, Penn looked very good . . the drive right before the half we gave it up on the 40 on fourth down . . and in the fourth quarter, poor tackling on a short field situation. This is against a big, physical offensive line and a great cutback runner that we don't see a lot, and a really good young QB (think Liam O'Hagan of Harvard last year) running with personnel we had NO tape on.

O-Line play isn't what we've grown accustomed to:
ran for 200 yards the last two weeks . . Hurt had success on the outside, but between the tackles Harris (69) and others did what they always do, Penn came in with the repuation of the best interior D-Line we'll see this year and they didn't disappoint. Maurer admitted that on a couple of the sacks, he didn't have a read and should have thrown the ball away . . he also ran for a TD on the QB draw for the third straight game.

Too pessimistic - yeah, you are !!
made the best of a long field with three very nice drives that started inside the 10 . . blocked field goals were indicative of the interior line play but we were in a position to get points . . we almost always lose to Ivy's in their opener . . the coaching staff does an excellent job when they know what to prepare for . . and give Penn credit for being a very good team, and maybe the Ivy co-favorite with Harvard (which has a lot of problems) and Brown.

[carney2]

Defense looked mediocre:
3 scoring drives . . the first possession, Penn looked very good . . the drive right before the half we gave it up on the 40 on fourth down . . and in the fourth quarter, poor tackling on a short field situation. This is against a big, physical offensive line and a great cutback runner that we don't see a lot, and a really good young QB (think Liam O'Hagan of Harvard last year) running with personnel we had NO tape on.

O-Line play isn't what we've grown accustomed to:
ran for 200 yards the last two weeks . . Hurt had success on the outside, but between the tackles Harris (69) and others did what they always do, Penn came in with the repuation of the best interior D-Line we'll see this year and they didn't disappoint. Maurer admitted that on a couple of the sacks, he didn't have a read and should have thrown the ball away . . he also ran for a TD on the QB draw for the third straight game.

Too pessimistic - yeah, you are !!
made the best of a long field with three very nice drives that started inside the 10 . . blocked field goals were indicative of the interior line play but we were in a position to get points . . we almost always lose to Ivy's in their opener . . the coaching staff does an excellent job when they know what to prepare for . . and give Penn credit for being a very good team, and maybe the Ivy co-favorite with Harvard (which has a lot of problems) and Brown.

Cosmo, my lad, me thinks that ye do protest too much. At the very least, you and I were viewing different games in the same Fisher Field at Fisher Stadium (stupid name!). Here's what I saw:

The offensive line, one of the supposed major "strengths" of this team, was out and out manhandled. They created very little in the way of running seams and left QB Brad Maurer under pressure and exhibiting some "happy feet" all afternoon. The definitive play of the game occurred in the second half when Penn nose guard Naheem Harris (number 69 in your program) crashed through and nailed Jonathon Hurt for a two or three yard loss almost as Hurt took the handoff. The instant replay (on our magnificent new scorebaord) showed Harris literally bowling over Lafayette center Ryan Nase (6'3", 295!) and putting him on his back while Harris stormed thru unimpeded.

The defensive front seven is also advertised as a major strength of this team. They took the day off. Penn QB, Rob Irvin, starting his first game, had no serious pressure and was sacked only once, as I recall. Penn tailback, Joe Sandberg ran for 166 yds. on 24 carries, and was virtually unchallenged at the line of scrimmage. By the 4th quarter, he and the other Penn RBs were 2 - 5 yards into the Lafayette defense before a hand was laid on them. In fact, "laying a hand on them," may have been the Lafayette defensive watchword for the day as "toreador" tackling was going on everywhere. Lafayette defenders were sliding off Penn ball carriers on a regular basis.

Cornerback has been a question mark since last December. I didn't notice any answers to these questions. Penn sophomore QB Irvin who, as I said, was making his first ever start, completed his first 11 passes - mostly short outs which are highly predictable for a team with an untested QB who needs to build confidence. The Lafayette corners were either schemed out of coverage (if so, shame on you, John Loose) or were just downright incapable or too timid to challenge the play. Pointing fingers and naming names, I thought that Lafayette senior Chad Hunter (number 12) really would have made better use of his time in the library yesterday afternoon.

Quarterback Brad Maurer has always been given credit for making great decisions when the ball is in his hands. Yesterday he threw into coverage, resulting in one interception, and took sacks on at least three occasions when he coulda/shoulda unloaded the ball to the bench, stands, Jumbotron, somewhere, anywhere. In the 4th quarter he threw one away and got a derisive cheer from the home crowd.

Borrowing a quote from Notre Dame's Charlie Weis after his team was turned every which way but loose by Michigan, "...that team just came and whupped us pretty good." To think that Penn couldn't do the same thing again next week and the week after if they had to is the ultimate in self delusion. To give Penn their due, they turned out to be pretty good - better than expected, and a lot better than the team they were facing. In overall I-AA terms however, are they a Top 10 Team? I don't think so. So just where does that leave Lafayette? What does this say about the rest of the season? Two things:

1. Lafayette could still win the Patsy League and get to the playoffs. After Colgate's equally underwhelming performance against UMass, and with Lehigh apparently circling the bowl, it is fair to say that there is no dominant team in the league. The trophy is still up for grabs. It is difficult to get excited about the playoffs however, when you are "whupped" so soundly by a Penn team that is probably not the equal of most of the teams that will end up playing in December.

2. A bounce back performance with a "W" is absolutely critical this week vs. Princeton or my feeling is that this could get real ugly. Personally, however, I am once again a believer in "The Poison Ivy Curse" wherein Lafayette beats Ivy League schools not located in Manhattan so rarely that ice ages come and go between wins. Younger posters (Cosmo?) feel that "What's happened in the past does not affect this team." I don't know. I have been watching this for a long, long time and there appears to be someting almost mystical and other worldly going on. In any event, I have vacated dreamland and no longer believe that Lafayette can beat these Ivy teams. If proof is in the pudding, I'm not getting any pudding.

[cosmo here]

Carney, at the risk of overloading the server and quoting your entire post, I'll keep my comments brief :)

OL - the Penn DL was probably, with the exception of Royce Morgan, the best we'll play all year, Hurt still found enough room for 81 yards (getting to the outside), you can't throw out the results the first two weeks, and Heffner is one of the best OL coaches in the nation. Lippert, Plenski and Padilla are all first year starters.

DL - thought initial pursuit to the ball was great, but they (and young LBs, minus Romans) left cutback lanes that Sandberg exploited. they'll be fine.

CB - agreed, first couple drives were painful. it's easy to say "after" the first 11, Irvin was 6-16, but . . well, he was. you can say good adjustment by Loose, or Irvin wasn't going to do that all game . . at least we didn't give up the big play (30+ yards). Torian wasn't out there either.

QB - may have pressed a little in the third, looked very composed otherwise. again, Penn had an exceptional DL that was as good as advertised.

is Penn a top 10 team? no. are they a top 25 team deeper in the season? yeah, they might be. and have we made the playoffs the last two years after frustrating Ivy losses? absolutely. if the expectations are a semifinal playoff appearance, I would ratchet those down. but for now, the playoffs are very much within reach. win the league and it takes care of itself . . but also, with the number of at-large hopefuls that play I-A or DII teams, the PL is always in great shape to get enough DI wins to build a resume.

[carney2]

I am now officially a Cosmo fan. You are a "glass half full" kind of a guy. Although not buying all that you say, I am able to revive myself from my funk and refocus on my favorite time of the year, college football season. I was actually beginning a premature drift to what I expect will be a mediocre basketball campaign. Thanks for stopping the madness.

[cosmo here]

I am now officially a Cosmo fan. You are a "glass half full" kind of a guy. Although not buying all that you say, I am able to revive myself from my funk and refocus on my favorite time of the year, college football season. I was actually beginning a premature drift to what I expect will be a mediocre basketball campaign. Thanks for stopping the madness.

for the record, I've always been a Carney fan xlolx and I sure don't want to sound like a Lehigh fan . . you were getting close ;)