Where Are All the Holy Cross Posters?

[Ivytalk]

Hey, hvsader etc.! Where are you? If a Crusader fell over in the woods, would it make a noise? Hello? I had strapped on my own coat of mail in expectation of some pre-Harvard game smack, but I guess I'll have to take the GD thing off...;)

[Andy]

Not sure about Sader Nation, but I understand the Penn fans are at Smug Fest '06.

[DFW HOYA]

The Holy Cross fan base has taken quite a pounding over the last generation. For a school which was supposed to be an original member of the Big East (only to see the offer declined by its school president in 1979) and end up with two winning seasons since 1992 is more than any other I-AA school has had to bear over the last decade.

[Husky Alum]

HC fans are just perpetually dour in Worcester because they couldn't get in to Boston College and have that chip on their shoulder - then again if you had to go to college in Worcester instead of Boston, you would be upset too.

It's like why Yalies get mad at the Cantabs - New Haven vs. Cambridge - NO CONTEST, and I grew up in the shadows of Yale.

Ivytalk, the 'Saders lost to my Huskies last week, you'll have NO problem with them - regardless of who isn't in uniform for you guys.

We need to start another contract with you guys - by not playing us, you guys gave up a guaranteed home game every year.

[Ivytalk]

HC fans are just perpetually dour in Worcester because they couldn't get in to Boston College and have that chip on their shoulder - then again if you had to go to college in Worcester instead of Boston, you would be upset too.

It's like why Yalies get mad at the Cantabs - New Haven vs. Cambridge - NO CONTEST, and I grew up in the shadows of Yale.

Ivytalk, the 'Saders lost to my Huskies last week, you'll have NO problem with them - regardless of who isn't in uniform for you guys.

We need to start another contract with you guys - by not playing us, you guys gave up a guaranteed home game every year.

You're right, Husky...I still remember Liam Ezekiel clotheslining our guys left and right!:p xlolx

[Pard4Life]

There are all at the Sotheby's wine aution... read in the WSJ that one of their alums is auctioning off wine to benefit Holy Cross athletics and improve their facilities... I don't think that can be remedied through wine sales... :rotateh:

They need an entire attitude adjustment up there... :nod:

Big East to bust? Yikes... I touched upon that theme on the Fordham board pretaining to getting HC people on board for schollies... I said I don't think HC fans would admire the fact they they went from playing BC, to the best in IAA, to perenial loser in 20 seasons... becomnig doormats or perhaps even D3 in 25 years would not be good at all..
...then again they did reject the Big East.. :eyebrow:

[LeopardFan04]

I'm not familiar with the history of declining the Big East...why was that decision made? Was it a matter of not wanting to make the commitment (money/attention) to go "big time?" But I do agree they've taken quite the nosedive...

[Husky Alum]

I'm not familiar with the history of declining the Big East...why was that decision made? Was it a matter of not wanting to make the commitment (money/attention) to go "big time?" But I do agree they've taken quite the nosedive...

It was written in John Feinstein's "The Last Amateurs", but it's pretty common knowledge in the Boston area that HC didn't want to sacrifice academics and its academic standards for big time athletics, and scholarships, and borderline students, etc. The Big East turned to Seton Hall (I believe) when Holy Cross said no.

I don't think it was a money issue, per se.

[LeopardFan04]

Thanks...makes sense I guess...I gather that it would be a completely different school had the decision gone the other way...

[Mr. C]

We need to start another contract with you guys - by not playing us, you guys gave up a guaranteed home game every year.
It was watching Ryan Fitzpatrick and Clifton Dawson take apart Northeastern a few years back that caused me (and maybe Ralph, too) to jump on the Harvard bandwagon. They had a couple of very impressive years up in Cambridge. I'd like to see Harvard and Northeastern get back to playing again.

[DFW HOYA]

It was written in John Feinstein's "The Last Amateurs", but it's pretty common knowledge in the Boston area that HC didn't want to sacrifice academics and its academic standards for big time athletics, and scholarships, and borderline students, etc. The Big East turned to Seton Hall (I believe) when Holy Cross said no.
I don't think it was a money issue, per se.

A better source is Bill Reynolds' book "Big Hoops", since Feinstein's book was more favorable to Rev. John Brooks, SJ and his distrust of athletics.

The original four Big East schools were Providence, Georgetown, Syracuse and St. John's. After obtaining a "yes" from UConn, they approached Holy Cross and Rutgers. Holy Cross was still playing scholarship football and would have been an eventual candidate for BE Football, but, like Rutgers, thought that there was no particular need to share their NCAA basketball success in a conference like the Big East. Having received two "no" responses, Boston College and Seton Hall took their places. (Villanova was not accepted until a year later owing to their existing commitments in the Eastern 8).

This idea that HC didn't want to be a "big time" scholarship school in 1979 doesn't hold water--it already was in I-A, had 85 scholarships in football and the full complement in basketball and a few other sports.

Rev. Brooks began to turn sour on athletics in the 1980's when HC's star was dimming in the shadow of what the Big East was doing. It was suggested that if HC were positioned as an elite liberal arts school and not just a peer to BC or Georgetown (both of whom Brooks seemed to distance from) it would assure its identity. In one sense, his decision did the exact opposite.

When it dropped from I-A, HC frankly dominated I-AA but a few years later the schoalrships were gone and the traditional feeder schools to HC football had migrated to other schools, particularly BC.

Rev. Brooks stepped down as president in 1994, and with it, a golden age of Holy Cross football. One can hope that, like Georgetown, better days are ahead for HC football.

[breezy]

Interesting how the passage of time changes perspectives.

There is no doubt that Fr. Brooks was very much afraid of the negative impact of "big-time" athletics, and that was the driving force in his decision (much lamented then and now) to reject the Big East.

Fr. Brooks did many good things for Holy Cross during his presidency, but he will -- at least for the foreseeable future -- always be associated with the rejection of the Big East and the adverse consequences it had on HC athletics.

By the way, HC did have a scholarship football team but I seriously doubt it ever gave 85 scholarships. To the best of my (hazy) recollection, the number was around 60 or 65. Even by the late 1960s (when I attended HC), it was clear HC was no longer able to compete with the "big-time" football schools. Other than a couple of upsets by HC, BC dominated the series in the 1970s and until it ended in 1986.

However, HC football is again on the rise under Tom Gilmore. HC football will be very competitive with Ivy and Patriot opponents -- if not this year, then very soon. A couple of years ago, Harvard romped over HC. Last year, the game was even for three quarters before HC wore down. This year . . . well, let's see.

[Franks Tanks]

Interesting how the passage of time changes perspectives.

There is no doubt that Fr. Brooks was very much afraid of the negative impact of "big-time" athletics, and that was the driving force in his decision (much lamented then and now) to reject the Big East.

Fr. Brooks did many good things for Holy Cross during his presidency, but he will -- at least for the foreseeable future -- always be associated with the rejection of the Big East and the adverse consequences it had on HC athletics.

By the way, HC did have a scholarship football team but I seriously doubt it ever gave 85 scholarships. To the best of my (hazy) recollection, the number was around 60 or 65. Even by the late 1960s (when I attended HC), it was clear HC was no longer able to compete with the "big-time" football schools. Other than a couple of upsets by HC, BC dominated the series in the 1970s and until it ended in 1986.

However, HC football is again on the rise under Tom Gilmore. HC football will be very competitive with Ivy and Patriot opponents -- if not this year, then very soon. A couple of years ago, Harvard romped over HC. Last year, the game was even for three quarters before HC wore down. This year . . . well, let's see.


This is a very good point, even if HC had accepted the invite to the Big East way back when, they would still most likely be 1-AA by now. Only two 1-A schools have enrollments somewhat similar to HC(Tulsa and Rice) and the are still larger. Bottom line is that HC would have to make huge academic and financial compromises to be even somewhat competitive in 1-A football, and overall that is just not the right fit for the school and they are in the right level for football.

[Ivytalk]

Solid 31-14 win for Harvard over HC today. Dawson got 170 yards on 24 carries. Harvard's starting QB Pizzotti went down with a knee injury (stay tuned on prognosis) in 2Q, but backup Witt did great job. On to Brown for big clash next week in Providence!:thumbsup:

[ivyfan]

Watched the Crimson D make life miserable for H.C. #12 all day! Got to give him credit for sticking it out and finishing the game, he is one tough guy!:thumbsup:

[ngineer]

Solid 31-14 win for Harvard over HC today. Dawson got 170 yards on 24 carries. Harvard's starting QB Pizzotti went down with a knee injury (stay tuned on prognosis) in 2Q, but backup Witt did great job. On to Brown for big clash next week in Providence!:thumbsup:


Hope he heals up...we don't want any excuses on the 30th..;)