The Sports Network preseason Top 25 poll

[Sandlapper Spike]

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/misc/cfoot225poll.aspx

North Dakota State is ranked #1, not surprisingly.

Somebody voted playoff-ineligible Georgia Southern #1, for some reason. Of course, I guess you could argue voting for Ivy League schools is just as pointless.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I don't get why EWU and UNH are getting so much love.

Cal Poly continues to be the most underrated team heading into the season...

Lehigh's ranking is very fair imo. The coaches were a bit too optimistic.

[Saint3333]

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/misc/cfoot225poll.aspx

North Dakota State is ranked #1, not surprisingly.

Somebody voted playoff-ineligible Georgia Southern #1, for some reason. Of course, I guess you could argue voting for Ivy League schools is just as pointless.

GSU could very well be the best team in the nation next year, doubtful with what they lost on defense, but it could happen. This isn't a poll to determine who will be the national champion, the playoffs will accomplish that.

[knucklehead]

I can't take this poll seriously with GaSo and AppSt in it. And then some dolt gives playoff ineligible GaSo a #1 vote? I still think Richmond is too low and Stony Brook is too high. Other than that everything outside of the top 5 is just too unsure.

[RichH2]

Overall pretty good. Not far off ours. LU at #22 fair bit optimistic preseason. We may deserve to be there by season's end.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Call me a homer if you want, I doubt there are 8 teams in the FCS better than GSU.

[walliver]

The Georgia Southern ranking is problematic. I suspect some voters boycotted them. GSU would have to be in the top 3-4 in any legitimate poll in which they participated - I personally would pick them #2. It appears that many voters ranked them that way, but a few voters left them out altogether.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

App State and GSU in poll.

Two 5-6 teams in the Top 20.

That tells you everything you need to know.

[knucklehead]

Call me a homer if you want, I doubt there are 8 teams in the FCS better than GSU.

I know of at least 1 voter who didn't vote for either GaSo or App because he didn't feel they belong.

[DFW HOYA]

Bucknell got 11 votes, despite being picked last in the PL. Neither of the next three teams ahead of them got any votes.

[Silenoz]

#1 votes for SHSU and MSU... color me confused

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Overall pretty good. Not far off ours. LU at #22 fair bit optimistic preseason. We may deserve to be there by season's end.

When you look at the teams around them it's more than fair. Outside of the Top 12 or so teams I think it's pretty even. I'd be confident Lehigh could/would beat EIU, BCU, CCU, NAU etc.

[pike51]

Playoff ineligible or not, both GSU and App are playing FCS schedules and should be considered in the polls. Ranking them in the polls only serves to strengthen the SOS of each team they play. Plus, if GSU goes undefeated, including a win over Florida, and everyone else at the FCS level has losses, wouldn't it be logical for GSU to be the #1 team in the rankings? What if Appy pulls off an undefeated season? Don't they deserve recognition for that? Won't happen that way, but it's something to ponder.

However, the point is everyone either considers them or they aren't an option. A few choosing to not vote for them while others do is not fair to the poll itself or the other teams in the poll.

[Sader87]

Bucknell got 11 votes, despite being picked last in the PL. Neither of the next three teams ahead of them got any votes.

I was surprised at that too...I know some feel the Bison will be better this year, but it still seems a bit of a stretch (right now anyway) for them to be getting that many votes.

[danefan]

Playoff ineligible or not, both GSU and App are playing FCS schedules and should be considered in the polls. Ranking them in the polls only serves to strengthen the SOS of each team they play. Plus, if GSU goes undefeated, including a win over Florida, and everyone else at the FCS level has losses, wouldn't it be logical for GSU to be the #1 team in the rankings? What if Appy pulls off an undefeated season? Don't they deserve recognition for that? Won't happen that way, but it's something to ponder.

How many scholarships does each team have this season?

[gumby013]

I was surprised at that too...I know some feel the Bison will be better this year, but it still seems a bit of a stretch (right now anyway) for them to be getting that many votes.

Mascot strength carryover. People voting the way Balki Bartokomous picked football games.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

When you look at the teams around them it's more than fair. Outside of the Top 12 or so teams I think it's pretty even. I'd be confident Lehigh could/would beat EIU, BCU, CCU, NAU etc.

You forgot to include Montana.

[IBleedYellow]

How many scholarships does each team have this season?


63, there is no reason for them not to be in the rankings. I changed my mind and think that they should be ranked even if they can't be in the playoffs.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

How many scholarships does each team have this season?

I don't get why that is so hard to understand either. There is a maximum and they are both exceeding it. Whether I like it, or anyone else does it's a pretty cut and dry parameter to go by.

[pike51]

How many scholarships does each team have this season?

63, what's your point?

[pike51]

I don't get why that is so hard to understand either. There is a maximum and they are both exceeding it. Whether I like it, or anyone else does it's a pretty cut and dry parameter to go by.

No, we aren't.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

63, there is no reason for them not to be in the rankings. I changed my mind and think that they should be ranked even if they can't be in the playoffs.

They are above 63 according to what I saw from SCFF and others from the schools. For instance I think he said App was at 72 or 73 but can't remember exactly.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

How many scholarships does each team have this season?

Yes, the scholarship limit is lifted for both teams this season. But I know for a fact based on what our own head coach has said that we will not have any players on the roster this year that we would not have without the lifted scholarship limit. Even if this were not the case, one year of being above the scholarship limit will make a negligible difference.

Furthermore, don't the rules of transitioning into FCS exist so that teams aren't competing for championships with players recruiting under DII rules? That doesn't stop anyone from including these teams in polls. I seem to remember NDSU being in the top 5 in 2006 and 2007.

[pike51]

They are above 63 according to what I saw from SCFF and others from the schools. For instance I think he said App was at 72 or 73 but can't remember exactly.

Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've seen, GSU is still at 63.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Playoff ineligible or not, both GSU and App are playing FCS schedules and should be considered in the polls. Ranking them in the polls only serves to strengthen the SOS of each team they play

Thanks for showing the statistical fudge end game that this is all about. Believe me, you'll be hearing a lot about this.

[IBleedYellow]

Just going to say this.

NDSU still isn't the preseason favorite because we didn't prove enough last year? Good times.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You forgot to include Montana.

Haha, Freudian slip...The Griz have the potential to be considerably better than #20.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

No, we aren't.

Well since I don't know for sure I can't argue it but even without that there is an advantage that the NCAA and the conference deemed as an advantage and that is what we kind of need to go by.

Not saying you are not correct but if you have anything on the scholarships this season coulld you link me to it? I'd rather know the facts than not know them.

[IBleedYellow]

Just going to say this.

NDSU still isn't the preseason favorite because we didn't prove enough last year? Good times.


Let me rephrase that: Add unanimous in there.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Just going to say this.

NDSU still isn't the preseason favorite because we didn't prove enough last year? Good times.

The preseason TSN poll is always good for some laughs. Check out the ORV section.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Well since I don't know for sure I can't argue it but even without that there is an advantage that the NCAA and the conference deemed as an advantage and that is what we kind of need to go by.

Not saying you are not correct but if you have anything on the scholarships this season coulld you link me to it? I'd rather know the facts than not know them.

It is my understanding that both GSU and App gave some of their walk ons scholarships because they could go over 63.

Also, not confirmed.

[danefan]

63, what's your point?

My point is, if GSU and App State aren't playing under FCS rules, then they aren't FCS.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've seen, GSU is still at 63.


We are over the scholarship limit .... but ... those extra scholarships are going to players already on the team. My understanding is that it has to do with rules about split scholarships.

[pike51]

It is my understanding that both GSU and App gave some of their walk ons scholarships because they could go over 63.

Also, not confirmed.

That is possible. I'm not 100% sure. But as was stated before, coach has stated we don't have any kids we wouldn't have if we weren't moving up.

The key point is all voters either need to include them or exclude them. Otherwise the poll is junk.

[danefan]

We are over the scholarship limit .... but ... those extra scholarships are going to players already on the team. My understanding is that it has to do with rules about split scholarships.

FBS cannot split scholarships. Full rides only.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That is possible. I'm not 100% sure. But as was stated before, coach has stated we don't have any kids we wouldn't have if we weren't moving up.

The key point is all voters either need to include them or exclude them. Otherwise the poll is junk.

It really should be one way or the other because as you say it makes for some pretty unstable stuff when you allow the either/or. That is not the guy's fault building the poll of course but the voters having that leeway does cause an issue and there is nothing that can really be done about it. It's another reason that it's probably best to just say no and get the unfortunate break up over quickly.

When you said "it's not you..." I knew it was all over pikey. I miss you already.

Call me.

[GlassOnion]

App should be playing at 74 scholarships. The extras are almost all awarded to guys that were already on the team. I think there is only 1 transfer with a scholarship, maybe two, but one is for sure ineligible for 2013.

[RichH2]

When you look at the teams around them it's more than fair. Outside of the Top 12 or so teams I think it's pretty even. I'd be confident Lehigh could/would beat EIU, BCU, CCU, NAU etc.

Dont disagree just too many unknowns for us preseason.

[asucrutch23]

We are over the scholarship limit .... but ... those extra scholarships are going to players already on the team.

It is my understanding that this is the case for App State as well. We had an incoming transfer from Ole Miss that I assume would have had a scholarship as well, but he is no longer with the program. I'm not sure if his scholarship went to another walk-on or if we are playing with 1 less scholarship than we would have.

As far as the poll is concerned, I agree that App and GSU should either be included or excluded, not included by some and excluded by others. I don't think our players could care less what they are ranked in the polls or whether or not they are even included. I've heard several players state that there is one goal this year, and that is an undefeated season.

[GlassOnion]

BTW, its crazy to not include teams with a transfer or two, when the FCS is chock full of teams under the 63, large numbers of partials, and no schollies at all, or even academic scholarships parading as athletic scholarships. If you aren't going to have standards, at least consistently don't have standards.

[Professor Chaos]

According to Jeff Kolpack, who votes in this poll, the voters were explicitly told that App St and Georgia Southern were eligible for The Sports Network Top 25: http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/?p=89393

So it looks like some voters left them off their ballot as a personal statement of sorts because both are ranked too low unless that is the case. Really takes away from the credibility of the poll if you ask me when voters omit teams based on their own eligibility criteria rather than by what the poll organizer says.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

BTW, its crazy to not include teams with a transfer or two, when the FCS is chock full of teams under the 63, large numbers of partials, and no schollies at all, or even academic scholarships parading as athletic scholarships. If you aren't going to have standards, at least consistently don't have standards.

The standard limit is 63. You've exceeded it.

[danefan]

The standard limit is 63. You've exceeded it.

Exactly.

Doesn't surprise me that TSN wants to hold onto App State and GSU fans as long as possible though.

[IBleedYellow]

The standard limit is 63. You've exceeded it.

They aren't FBS, but the also aren't FCS anymore, let them at least have a "home" until they are FBS next year.

[Saint3333]

I agree either include them or exclude doesn't matter, just be clear about it. It is going to look silly if they continue this and a 10-1 GSU team is ranked lower than a 7-4 UNH team

But to set the record straight on the number of scholarships:

After the announcement App had three scholarship players transfer out or decide not to play.

App brought in three players; WR transfer from UNCC, freshman S that improved scores, and a Juco LB.

That is a net 0 gain in scholarships for those scoring at home, actually it is a -1 as the WR will have to sit out. Any other scholarships provided were to guys that were walk-ons (App's walk-on program has always been an advantage at this level the only difference is now a few of them have a scholarship for a year). Again that is a net 0 impact to the talent level and depth on the 2013 team. The excuse that App is playing with an advantage this year is no different than it has been any prior year.

Also NDSU was ineligible for the playoffs during the transition to the FCS in 2007 and they received votes in the poll throughout the season.

[GlassOnion]

The standard limit is 63. You've exceeded it.

Ah, a JUCO transfer that has never played a snap, and an ineligible FR WR, who has never played a snap, and a bunch of guys that were at App anyways. Sounds like exceeding that "limit" has unfairly tilted the balance of power in App's favor. Must be why we got all those #1 votes.

[Sam_Kats]

How the HECK does NDSU get so many 1st place votes??

[smallcollegefbfan]

They are above 63 according to what I saw from SCFF and others from the schools. For instance I think he said App was at 72 or 73 but can't remember exactly.

Yes App has over 70 on scholarship, many of them are young and redshirts though. Meaning, those extra scholarships probably won't help them this year unless you see 3-5 impact true freshmen, those are the first group of FBS recruits. Everyone before them was a FCS recruit, and honestly even most of the incoming freshmen are FCS recruits because they signed before App moved up.

[smallcollegefbfan]

How the HECK does NDSU get so many 1st place votes??

Two-time champs. To be the man you have to beat the man. If teams don't like it they need to beat NDSU, then they will lose those votes!

[smallcollegefbfan]

How come UTC is just 24th? Chattownmocs says they are going to be the SoCon Champions so should they not be in the top 5-8?

[Sam_Kats]

Two-time champs. To be the man you have to beat the man. If teams don't like it they need to beat NDSU, then they will lose those votes!

Got it, dude. Twas a joke.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

They aren't FBS, but the also aren't FCS anymore, let them at least have a "home" until they are FBS next year.
They have a home. The don't meet the criteria for being your standard FCS though. They could receive votes and be ranked in the FBS Poll whether it's unlikely or not they are eligible for it.

If we were having an auto race and the maximum speed limit was 63 except for two cars which could go either that limit or exceed it up to 74 would that seem fair to do?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All the partials are now full scholarships, as per FBS rules. Because ASU and GSU are transitioning to FBS. Which is why it's stupid that they're in an FCS poll.

[GlassOnion]

All the partials are now full scholarships, as per FBS rules. Because ASU and GSU are transitioning to FBS. Which is why it's stupid that they're in an FCS poll.

Of all the reasons, that one is probably the most ridiculous.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I agree either include them or exclude doesn't matter, just be clear about it. It is going to look silly if they continue this and a 10-1 GSU team is ranked lower than a 7-4 UNH team

But to set the record straight on the number of scholarships:

After the announcement App had three scholarship players transfer out or decide not to play.

App brought in three players; WR transfer from UNCC, freshman S that improved scores, and a Juco LB.

That is a net 0 gain in scholarships for those scoring at home, actually it is a -1 as the WR will have to sit out. Any other scholarships provided were to guys that were walk-ons (App's walk-on program has always been an advantage at this level the only difference is now a few of them have a scholarship for a year). Again that is a net 0 impact to the talent level and depth on the 2013 team. The excuse that App is playing with an advantage this year is no different than it has been any prior year.

Also NDSU was ineligible for the playoffs during the transition to the FCS in 2007 and they received votes in the poll throughout the season.

People keep saying that and it's absolutely true. That did happen. It happened four years before I took over the running of the poll at which time when Texas State was moving up I figured it would be to ask the poll committtee and then the AGS voters what they thought the best course of handling these sorts of issues going forward would be.

The vote to not include FBS transitional teams in the poll going forward was overwhelmingly in the "do not include" side of things.

Whatever happened back then has no relevance now is all I'm saying. It was voted down by the people.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Of all the reasons, that one is probably the most ridiculous.

Glass, stop whining, you have a legitimate even if negligible advantage in scholarships. It may or may not mean anything on the field as that is left to be seen but it's an advantage.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

My point is, if GSU and App State aren't playing under FCS rules, then they aren't FCS.

Teams that are making the transition into FCS cannot participate in the playoffs if they have players not recruited under DI rules. That arguably gives them more of an advantage than having a scholarship limit lifted for one season. Yet they can be included in polls.


Glass, stop whining, you have a legitimate even if negligible advantage in scholarships. It may or may not mean anything on the field as that is left to be seen but it's an advantage.

Honestly, I don't really care all that much at not being in or being slighted in a poll on a year when we are inegligible for the playoffs. I don't think most GSU and App. fans don't really care either. It's fine with me if you don't want ineligible teams in the poll, but the reasoning that is given is crap.

[blueballs]

I can't take this poll seriously with GaSo and AppSt in it. And then some dolt gives playoff ineligible GaSo a #1 vote? I still think Richmond is too low and Stony Brook is too high. Other than that everything outside of the top 5 is just too unsure.

GSU is too low at #9 if they are eligible for this poll, so it would seem to indicate there are some voters who left them off altogether, as you suggested.

[Saint3333]

People keep saying that and it's absolutely true. That did happen. It happened four years before I took over the running of the poll at which time when Texas State was moving up I figured it would be to ask the poll committtee and then the AGS voters what they thought the best course of handling these sorts of issues going forward would be.

The vote to not include FBS transitional teams in the poll going forward was overwhelmingly in the "do not include" side of things.

Whatever happened back then has no relevance now is all I'm saying. It was voted down by the people.

You are talking about the AGS poll, which I have no issue with, you have set the parameters and stuck to them. The AGS poll is not relevant to this discussion either.

This is about the SN poll, a poll that allowed ineligible programs to receive votes historically and states that App and GSU are eligible for the poll. Objective voters should read the rules and adhere to them, otherwise the validity of the poll is questionable.

[Saint3333]

Yes App has over 70 on scholarship, many of them are young and redshirts though. Meaning, those extra scholarships probably won't help them this year unless you see 3-5 impact true freshmen, those are the first group of FBS recruits. Everyone before them was a FCS recruit, and honestly even most of the incoming freshmen are FCS recruits because they signed before App moved up.

All of the 2013 recruits signed LOIs prior to the announcement with the exception of the three individuals in my earlier post. The point is App's talent and depth would be the same in 2013 with or without the FBS announcement based upon the activity to date.

[Mountaineer]

I don't think most GSU and App. fans don't really care either.

xthumbsupx

Even when App was eligible for the poll I couldn't care less where the team is ranked. For the subdivision that settles it on the field, this board is full of the biggest f'in poll whiners..week after week..and it's been the same for years. xlolx

I'm fine with App and GSU being left out of all the polls this year. It's fair. That doesn't mean that App and GSU aren't going to better than a majority of the teams "ranked" in the poll. So there is that..we know it..and they know it, too.. ;)

[klak]

Pop quiz time!

1) How many TOTAL scholarship players are currently on the roster at NDSU, Montana State, and Sam Houston?

2) How many TOTAL scholarship players are currently on the roster at Georgia Southern and App State.

If the two answers are the same, then it would stand to reason that no advantage is gained and GS and App should both be poll (and playoff) eligible.

Hint: The two answers are the same. Section 15.5.6 of the NCAA 2012-2013 D-I Manual is relevant:


15.5.6.1 Bowl Subdivision Football. [FBS]
There shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of initial counters (per Bylaw 15.02.3.1) and an annual limit of 85 on the total number of counters (including initial counters) in football at each institution. (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 8/1/92, 12/15/06)

15.5.6.2 Championship Subdivision Football. [FCSD]
There shall be an annual limit of 30 on the number of initial counters (per Bylaw 15.02.3.1), an annual limit of 63 on the value of financial aid awards (equivalencies) to counters, and an annual limit of 85 on the total number of counters (including initial counters) in football at each Football Championship Subdivision institution. (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 8/1/92, 12/15/06)

[danefan]

Pop quiz time!

1) How many TOTAL scholarship players are currently on the roster at NDSU, Montana State, and Sam Houston?

2) How many TOTAL scholarship players are currently on the roster at Georgia Southern and App State.

If the two answers are the same, then it would stand to reason that no advantage is gained and GS and App should both be poll (and playoff) eligible.

Hint: The two answers are the same. Section 15.5.6 of the NCAA 2012-2013 D-I Manual is relevant:

You're either lost in the definitions or you don't understand how college football works.

Counters and scholarships are not the same thing.

85 is the number of players. FBS is 85 full. FCS is 63 full that can be spread over 85.

If you don't think a full scholarship gets you a different quality of player than a partial then you know very little about college football.

[klak]

You're either lost in the definitions or you don't understand how college football works.

Counters and scholarships are not the same thing.

85 is the number of players. FBS is 85 full. FCS is 63 full that can be spread over 85.

If you don't think a full scholarship gets you a different quality of player than a partial then you know very little about college football.

So the answer to the question is that FBS and FCS both have 85 players. Got it.

I'm well aware of how football works. If you think that Georgia Southern's #82 player is having more of a game-day impact than Albany's #82 player, then you know very little about college football.

[danefan]

So the answer to the question is that FBS and FCS both have 85 players. Got it.

I'm well aware of how football works. If you think that Georgia Southern's #82 player is having more of a game-day impact than Albany's #82 player, then you know very little about college football.

No, FCS and FBS can both have 85 players receiving some scholarship. The difference is all 85 FBS players have full rides. Not all 85 FCS players can have full rides.

You really have no clue how much depth matters in college football. Having 85 full rides provides a HUGE difference in depth versus the FCS equivalent of 63 rides split between 85 counters.

[klak]

No, FCS and FBS can both have 85 players receiving some scholarship. The difference is all 85 FBS players have full rides. Not all 85 FCS players can have full rides.

You really have no clue how much depth matters in college football. Having 85 full rides provides a HUGE difference in depth versus the FCS equivalent of 63 rides split between 85 counters.

I completely understand partials and full rides. You're not telling me anything new there.

But if depth matters THAT much, then why is and FCS travel squad 50-ish players? Seems like we should take everyone.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You are talking about the AGS poll, which I have no issue with, you have set the parameters and stuck to them. The AGS poll is not relevant to this discussion either.

This is about the SN poll, a poll that allowed ineligible programs to receive votes historically and states that App and GSU are eligible for the poll. Objective voters should read the rules and adhere to them, otherwise the validity of the poll is questionable.

Ok, sorry about that cuz I apparently misunderstood ya. I assumed it was polls in general and since App and GSU are eligible for the TSN as was NDSU I just took it to mean the polls outside of TSN. I totally agree that if a team is eligible for a poll then they should be considered for that poll. I can also see why some would not do it if their philosophy differed from mine though. It's too much grey area I guess.xthumbsupx

[BisonFan02]

Interesting conversation about whether or not to allow Georgia Southern and App State the privilege of being ranked behind NDSU in a poll....times are a changin' :D

[HailSzczur]

My opinions on the CAA teams.

Too high: Nova and UNH
Too low: SBU
Just right: JMU, Towson, Richmond

[Cleets]

#1 votes for SHSU and MSU... color me confused

Yup...
and their RANK was (at the very least) backwards
and frankly MSU in the top 5 is sketchy at best

[PaladinFan]

Hey, Furman got 4 votes.

It is absolutely painful (just so you know) that I am having a hard time remembering what it was like when Furman was a top 10 team (which was just about every single season for a while).

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Hey, Furman got 4 votes.

It is absolutely painful (just so you know) that I am having a hard time remembering what it was like when Furman was a top 10 team (which was just about every single season for a while).

There has to be some correlation between the rise of Wofford and the fall of Furman.

[SU DOG]

IMO, maybe homerism, but I think that Samford is way too low. Not a JSU fan here, BUT I will say it again - Jacksonville State is currently the MOST underrated team in all of FCS.

[dbackjon]

When you look at the teams around them it's more than fair. Outside of the Top 12 or so teams I think it's pretty even. I'd be confident Lehigh could/would beat EIU, BCU, CCU, NAU etc.

NAU is coming off an 8-3 season with 14 starters back.

[fmrbearkat]

IMO, maybe homerism, but I think that Samford is way too low. Not a JSU fan here, BUT I will say it again - Jacksonville State is currently the MOST underrated team in all of FCS.

I would say poly is by far the most underrated team! They are a tough team with alot returning! They could very well run the table in conference this year!

[PaladinFan]

There has to be some correlation between the rise of Wofford and the fall of Furman.

There really is not. Wofford is kind of off on their own most years. Wofford was a respectable team even before Furman fell on hard times. They advanced deep into the playoffs in 2003 (I think). They gave elite Georgia Southern teams fits several times. They have at their helm a guy that I would consider hands down the best coach in FCS football. I don't even think it's particularly close. No team does more with less than Wofford.

Now, I will say that Wofford has beaten out Furman for a few recruits. I do think that period is coming to a close, as Furman has started to beat out Wofford for some guys recently. Still, Wofford will be good as long as Ayers is coaching the team. Now, some years the rest of the conference is just better. Some years they aren't. Wofford is entering, perhaps, a period of their own transition where they have to find a replacement for one of their greats.

[Pard4Life]

Bucknell got 11 votes, despite being picked last in the PL. Neither of the next three teams ahead of them got any votes.

Saw this too... who is the joker?

[Pard4Life]

I don't get why EWU and UNH are getting so much love.

Cal Poly continues to be the most underrated team heading into the season...

Lehigh's ranking is very fair imo. The coaches were a bit too optimistic.


Uhhh.... a fair Lehigh ranking would be unranked. Let's be realistic... you achieved the same ranking with a record-breaking WR, competent QB, and all-PL secondary, whom are all gone. Get real. xcrazyx

Of course, you are going to win your cupcake games and lose to UNH, thereby artificially inflating your ranking and fooling everyone that you're indeed a top ten team. Realistically, you should be unranked and enter the top 25 at about 4-1 and climb from there.

[darell1976]

UND hosts 3 of the top 6 teams...that should be a great ticket seller, which will make it tough on opponents.

[BisonFan02]

Grambling State received 8 votes.....wait...what?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Uhhh.... a fair Lehigh ranking would be unranked. Let's be realistic... you achieved the same ranking with a record-breaking WR, competent QB, and all-PL secondary, whom are all gone. Get real. xcrazyx

Of course, you are going to win your cupcake games and lose to UNH, thereby artificially inflating your ranking and fooling everyone that you're indeed a top ten team. Realistically, you should be unranked and enter the top 25 at about 4-1 and climb from there.

What do you know about CCU? BCU? EIU? etc?

You haven't been right about Lehigh in years. You know that. It's almost humerous you even offer an opinion because you're literally NEVER right. You said the same about losing the Payton Award runner-up, 3rd Round draft pick, entire OL etc. It's about the program....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

NAU is coming off an 8-3 season with 14 starters back.

NAU will be good but I don't see them at an elite level. Just about everyone from 15-25 could/would beat up on each other imo.

[RichH2]

What do you know about CCU? BCU? EIU? etc?

You haven't been right about Lehigh in years. You know that. It's almost humerous you even offer an opinion because you're literally NEVER right. You said the same about losing the Payton Award runner-up, 3rd Round draft pick, entire OL etc. It's about the program....

P4L not concerned with being right just with bashing LU.You'd think he would be satisfied with Pards actually having a good team this coming season.

[Grizalltheway]

App State and GSU in poll.

Two 5-6 teams in the Top 20.

That tells you everything you need to know.

The poll is supposed to be based on how good the voters think the teams will be this season, no? I can guarantee you we won't be 5-6 this year.

[Grizalltheway]

You forgot to include Montana.

You wouldn't stand a chance against Montana, home or away.xcoffeex

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You wouldn't stand a chance against Montana, home or away.xcoffeex

Lehigh would fair pretty well against Montana due to their team speed. Their lack of size on the DL would be a concern however. With that said, the Griz would be the favorite if both teams played tomorrow.

I think Lehigh would also match-up pretty well with the Bobcats despite their #2 ranking.

[AppState]

Lehigh would fair pretty well against Montana due to their team speed. Their lack of size on the DL would be a concern however. With that said, the Griz would be the favorite if both teams played tomorrow.

I think Lehigh would also match-up pretty well with the Bobcats despite their #2 ranking.

And App fans are the homers?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

And App fans are the homers?

How is that homerism? I follow Lehigh, live in Montana and talk to the MSU coach on a regular basis. I feel like I know how these teams stack up.

BTW, I had Lehigh ranked #21 in the AGS Poll which is right where our peers ultimately had them. They were #17 in the Coaches and #22 in TSN Poll. I'm hardly a homer...

[GlassOnion]

Lehigh gets rolled by both Montana and MSU. No question.

[eaglewraith]

No, FCS and FBS can both have 85 players receiving some scholarship. The difference is all 85 FBS players have full rides. Not all 85 FCS players can have full rides.

You really have no clue how much depth matters in college football. Having 85 full rides provides a HUGE difference in depth versus the FCS equivalent of 63 rides split between 85 counters.

You don't have to fully fund every scholarship in FBS, although I think there's a minimum "equivalent" value you have to meet. The scholarships just can't be split between multiple players, any amount of aid to a single player counts as a single scholarship.

[eaglewraith]

Bottom line, us and App are eligible for the poll as stated by TSN. The voters should be ashamed for voting out of personal bias/judgement instead of by quality of team.

[CrazyCat]

Just wondering. Why is it such a big deal to some App. & GSU fans that they aren't in a poll ?

[GlassOnion]

Just wondering. Why is it such a big deal to some App. & GSU fans that they aren't in a poll ?

Seems like its a bigger deal to those wanting NOT to include them.

[AppState]

I follow Lehigh, live in Montana and talk to the MSU coach on a regular basis. I feel like I know how these teams stack up.



Chalk it up to politeness.

[Saint3333]

How is that homerism? I follow Lehigh, live in Montana and talk to the MSU coach on a regular basis. I feel like I know how these teams stack up.

BTW, I had Lehigh ranked #21 in the AGS Poll which is right where our peers ultimately had them. They were #17 in the Coaches and #22 in TSN Poll. I'm hardly a homer...

Do you stay in the Holiday Inn as well?

[T-Dog]

The NCAA classifies us as FCS this year so we should be included in the FCS polls, even though we have to upgrade partial-schollies to full schollies per NCAA FBS rules in order to be approved for transition. So in response to this confusion, the coaches poll makes transitional teams ineligible yet the media poll says they are absolutely allowed yet some media decide not to vote for them.

I would care more if it mattered, but it doesn't. All that matters is 12-0 and i'm sure the rednecks will agree with me on that one. xthumbsupx

[parr90]

GSU has more scholarships this year but the same 22 guys, other than the new guys that are moving into positions from leaving seniors, will be playing on the field. The scholarship additions wont make any difference on the field this year.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Do you stay in the Holiday Inn as well?

I get to watch every Griz and Bobcat game. I also read up on each team on a regular basis. Coach Ash is an awesome guy that lets me in on injuries and such so long I don't use a place like here to announce it. I feel pretty well versed on Bobcat and Griz football. At the end of the day we're all sharing what we hope is an educated opinion.

BTW, Coach Ash is friends with Lafayette HC Frank Tavani and has coached in PA.

[Pard4Life]

P4L not concerned with being right just with bashing LU.You'd think he would be satisfied with Pards actually having a good team this coming season.

Paper and reality are two different things. We SHOULD beat Princeton... we SHOULD beat Penn...

[Pard4Life]

What do you know about CCU? BCU? EIU? etc?

You haven't been right about Lehigh in years. You know that. It's almost humerous you even offer an opinion because you're literally NEVER right. You said the same about losing the Payton Award runner-up, 3rd Round draft pick, entire OL etc. It's about the program....

xblahx A stopped clock is right twice a day. And I'm always right: Lehigh sucketh.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

I don't get why EWU and UNH are getting so much love.

Cal Poly continues to be the most underrated team heading into the season...

Lehigh's ranking is very fair imo. The coaches were a bit too optimistic.

Probably because EWU was 4 points away from the title game, and we return most of our starters.


http://matthershberger.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/god-haters-gonna-hate-eagle.jpg

[DJKyR0]

http://i.imgur.com/NQwlyMn.png

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Probably because EWU was 4 points away from the title game, and we return most of our starters.


http://matthershberger.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/god-haters-gonna-hate-eagle.jpg

The schedule will be EWU's demise. They'll be this years UNI/Towson.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The schedule will be EWU's demise. They'll be this years UNI/Towson.

You probably could have just said 2011's EWU.

[fmrbearkat]

Probably because EWU was 4 points away from the title game, and we return most of our starters.


http://matthershberger.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/god-haters-gonna-hate-eagle.jpg

Well I don't know what your schedule is the rest of the year but I know one loss you will have down in Texas. The eagles will feel what heat really is! Honestly if we were playing y'all later in the year I would say it would be a 50/50 game but a 2:00 game in September is going to be a major disadvantage for y'all. That and the fact all your top recievers are gone plus we will prepare alot differently than we did for the statue y'all started last year and it probably won't be close.

[seantaylor]

Call me a homer if you want, I doubt there are 8 teams in the FCS better than GSU.

There isn't one FCS team better than GSU.

[skinny_uncle]

There isn't one FCS team better than GSU.

Awaiting the Bison response.

xcoffeex

[BisonFan02]

Awaiting the Bison response.

xcoffeex

None really needed....it's seantaylor...last year must have been a fluke again.

3-0

[frozennorth]

seeing as Sean Taylor has brought us to troll mode

10 > 6

I will say that there are only two teams that deserve consideration for #1, and one of them is GSU.

[pike51]

seeing as Sean Taylor has brought us to troll mode

10 > 6

I will say that there are only two teams that deserve consideration for #1, and one of them is GSU.

But, if you go by Chattown logic, then you're wrong.

[WrenFGun]

How is that homerism? I follow Lehigh, live in Montana and talk to the MSU coach on a regular basis. I feel like I know how these teams stack up.

BTW, I had Lehigh ranked #21 in the AGS Poll which is right where our peers ultimately had them. They were #17 in the Coaches and #22 in TSN Poll. I'm hardly a homer...

Just a UNH Hater, right? xrolleyesx

[UNIFanSince1983]

App State and GSU in poll.

Two 5-6 teams in the Top 20.

That tells you everything you need to know.

What does a team going 5-6 last year have to do with this year? This is a preseason poll not a postseason poll. This is to predict how teams will do THIS YEAR, not how they performed last year.

[ewueagle2010]

Well I don't know what your schedule is the rest of the year but I know one loss you will have down in Texas. The eagles will feel what heat really is! Honestly if we were playing y'all later in the year I would say it would be a 50/50 game but a 2:00 game in September is going to be a major disadvantage for y'all. That and the fact all your top recievers are gone plus we will prepare alot differently than we did for the statue y'all started last year and it probably won't be close.

Is that a guarantee?

Granted, Cheney doesn't have near the humidity of South Texas, but it gets pretty damn hot. It's been 90-100 degrees for the last month. Weather conditions are so overrated. The heat won't play anymore effect on EWU as the cold did on SHSU last season in Bozeman or in Cheney. Should be a great game!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Just a UNH Hater, right? xrolleyesx

Not a UNH hater, lol...

Your defense HAS to get better. The Wildcats were very lucky their playoff streak got extended last year. I think it ends this year...

[ewueagle2010]

I don't get why EWU and UNH are getting so much love.

Cal Poly continues to be the most underrated team heading into the season...

Lehigh's ranking is very fair imo. The coaches were a bit too optimistic.

Well that's why polls are left to the experts and not fans...

EWU will have a MUCH better defense than last season, with hands down the best secondary in the conference and a much improved front 7 led by Ronnie Hamlin who put on anther 25 lbs from last season. The offense will be fine. Yes, we lost our big 3 recievers, but when was the last time EWU didn't have a great receiving corp?? The offense will look different than last year with a much more mobile QB and 3 returning RB's, and 4 of 5 OL back from last year. (That plus and a Wazzu transfer OL to take Will Post's spot).

They're schedule is tough, but I don't see EWU winning less than 8 games, which will no doubt make them playoff bound with their strength of schedule. In the playoffs, anything can happen, and I doubt any team that would want to play EWU in the playoffs after being tested with that schedule, not to mention their history of late.

[WrenFGun]

Not a UNH hater, lol...

Your defense HAS to get better. The Wildcats were very lucky their playoff streak got extended last year. I think it ends this year...

You mean, as Co-CAA Champions? The committee clearly decided they wouldn't take a 7 DI win team, and thus UNH clearly deserved to be in (how they got a first round bye is beyond me, though).

You also realize UNH entered the year with 2 QB's that had no experience at all? They started a RS FR and a RS SO. That's going to improve this year. The defense has been terrible for nine years, and they've made the playoffs for 9 years. There's no reason they should be ranked any lower than where they are here.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You mean, as Co-CAA Champions? The committee clearly decided they wouldn't take a 7 DI win team, and thus UNH clearly deserved to be in (how they got a first round bye is beyond me, though).

You also realize UNH entered the year with 2 QB's that had no experience at all? They started a RS FR and a RS SO. That's going to improve this year. The defense has been terrible for nine years, and they've made the playoffs for 9 years. There's no reason they should be ranked any lower than where they are here.

Any Lehigh fan can't afford to be a UNH hater. We need you guys to go 10-1 so we have a chance to make the playoffs. xlolx

[Sam_Kats]

Eagle - it will be a good one. Hope some EWU fans are able to make it down.

[fmrbearkat]

Is that a guarantee?

Granted, Cheney doesn't have near the humidity of South Texas, but it gets pretty damn hot. It's been 90-100 degrees for the last month. Weather conditions are so overrated. The heat won't play anymore effect on EWU as the cold did on SHSU last season in Bozeman or in Cheney. Should be a great game!

Ask Montana what it was like playing down here in September. We had to stop the game 3 seperate times because Montana players were throwing up in the middle of the field. We were up 41-10 when the backups came in during the 4th qtr. The same Montana team that went to the National Championship in 2004. Yes its a guarentee. More than likely it will still be 95-100 degrees and 90% humidity. It is still freaking miserable for us that time of year. And if we played late in the year or at yall's place it would be a 50/50 game at best for us. Heck even a night game here would level it but with this scenario im saying 85/15.

Don't get me wrong.....Im not saying that i believe yall don't have a really good team because yall do. There is a big difference between playing in cold and playing in a sauna. Cold is uncomfortable for the first qtr but after that its not as big of a deal. Heat is crippling and gets worse as the game goes along.

[Sammy94]

The heat won't play anymore effect on EWU as the cold did on SHSU last season in Bozeman or in Cheney.

A #1 Montana team thought the same thing a few years ago and Sam didn't have near the weapons it does now. I'd be very surprised if Sam doesn't win by 2 touchdowns.

[fmrbearkat]

A #1 Montana team thought the same thing a few years ago and Sam didn't have near the weapons it does now. I'd be very surprised if Sam doesn't win by 2 touchdowns.

Well i would say we did actually. Better QB, better recievers, better OL. Running Back was no where close and the defense wasn't as good. We did make it to the Semifinals that year.

[Sam_Kats]

There's SOMETHING to Bowers Stadium. Since Sept 12, 2009 (a 48-45 win over the North Dakota State Bison) the KATS are 22-1 @ Bowers Stadium, including a current 14 game home winning streak. The only bump in the road?? A 33-28 loss to McNeese.

[ewueagle2010]

Eagle - it will be a good one. Hope some EWU fans are able to make it down.

I wish I could make it down, but am unable too. A few fans will make the trip, but probably mostly family of players and coaches.

[Grizalltheway]

Ask Montana what it was like playing down here in September. We had to stop the game 3 seperate times because Montana players were throwing up in the middle of the field. We were up 41-10 when the backups came in during the 4th qtr. The same Montana team that went to the National Championship in 2004. Yes its a guarentee. More than likely it will still be 95-100 degrees and 90% humidity. It is still freaking miserable for us that time of year. And if we played late in the year or at yall's place it would be a 50/50 game at best for us. Heck even a night game here would level it but with this scenario im saying 85/15.

Don't get me wrong.....Im not saying that i believe yall don't have a really good team because yall do. There is a big difference between playing in cold and playing in a sauna. Cold is uncomfortable for the first qtr but after that its not as big of a deal. Heat is crippling and gets worse as the game goes along.

I tend to agree with this, although the SLC's collective record in Missoula suggests that the cold remains a big deal throughout the entire game.

[WrenFGun]

Any Lehigh fan can't afford to be a UNH hater. We need you guys to go 10-1 so we have a chance to make the playoffs. xlolx

Yes! Or not lose to a team that loses to the worst team in the MVC!

[BEAR]

I tend to agree with this, although the SLC's collective record in Missoula suggests that the cold remains a big deal throughout the entire game.

I think the cold does play a part in a team's ability to play in Missoula. But I'd rack up UCA's effort to being fairly new to the FCS playoffs. I think Montana was the better team that year, but a couple more years in the FCS and UCA will give some of the perennial leaders a run.

[fmrbearkat]

Yes! Or not lose to a team that loses to the worst team in the MVC!

I think it's more to the fact that most of the losses were against a really good Montana in the playoffs and more importantly IM WaGrizz! An evenly matched team in that stadium will lose by 14 or more! I couldn't hear the QB audible and I played guard. It really is an incredible atmosphere especially in the playoffs!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Since this wasn't from the coach but rather a reliable source, MSU DE Brad Daly (active FCS sack leader) is suffering from a disc injury that will force him receive two cortisone shots. I'm not sure if he'll make it through the season. There seems to be real concern.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Since this wasn't from the coach but rather a reliable source, MSU DE Brad Daly (active FCS sack leader) is suffering from a disc injury that will force him receive two cortisone shots. I'm not sure if he'll make it through the season. There seems to be real concern.

Dude's an excellent competitor and I hope he can get things sorted out to compete at his normal high level.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Dude's an excellent competitor and I hope he can get things sorted out to compete at his normal high level.

MSU has really been riddled with injuries on the defensive side of the ball. It will be interesting to see how they fair..

[T-Dog]

App's David Jackson didn't mince words regarding his thoughts on the lack of poll continuity.

http://www.appstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209137660&DB_OEM_ID=21500

[PaladinFan]

App's David Jackson didn't mince words regarding his thoughts on the lack of poll continuity.

http://www.appstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209137660&DB_OEM_ID=21500

Speaking of continuity, "Either Appalachian or Georgia Southern has won at least a share of all but one of the last 17 Southern Conference titles. During that span, the only seasons that the Mountaineers or Eagles did not win at least a share of the SoCon title were 1999 (Furman) and 2003 (Wofford)."

Am I the only one that thinks one of those two sentences cannot be true?

[T-Dog]

Yeah it's technically wrong. GSU and App won a share along with Furman in 1999 at 7-1 and 17 seasons ago was Marshall's perfect season.

1996 Marshall
1997 Georgia Southern
1998 Georgia Southern
1999 Furman/Georgia Southern/Appalachian State
2000 Georgia Southern
2001 Georgia Southern/Furman
2002 Georgia Southern
2003 Wofford
2004 Furman/Georgia Southern
2005 Appalachian State
2006 Appalachian State
2007 Wofford/Appalachian State
2008 Appalachian State
2009 Appalachian State
2010 Appalachian State/Wofford
2011 Georgia Southern
2012 Appalachian State/Georgia Southern/Wofford

[ursus arctos horribilis]

App's David Jackson didn't mince words regarding his thoughts on the lack of poll continuity.

http://www.appstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209137660&DB_OEM_ID=21500

Good article. I had mentioned to citdog a couple of weeks ago that it seemed odd that the coaches poll had changed direction on how they were handling move ups from their previous handling of TX State and UMass. I remember a few people being pissed that the AGS Poll didn't include those two teams while all the others still did.

[chattownmocs]

Mr. Jackson lauds the intellect of FCS fans while ranking The Citadel 11th in the nation. Clearly this ranking is based on The Citadel's shellacking of his Mountaineers. But wait, if that is the case, shouldn't The Citadel be ranked above his Mountaineers? Surely so if this victory was actually indicative of this team's ability.

[AppMan]

Seems like its a bigger deal to those wanting NOT to include them.

Amen to that! A lot of whining going on over a poll that does nothing other than help determine seeding for the tournament. App and Ga So in the poll has no bearing on what ultimately happens. Get over it folks.

[carney2]

Villanova and UNH are probably both a little high, but someone from the CAA needs to be Top 10, so why not them. No one from the Patriot League deserves to be in the Top 20 - and none are. Either Penn or Harvard from the Ivy can play with most of these teams and at least one deserves to be in the high teens. Montana looks like a "habit" pick, even at 20. If you let your eyes drop down to the "also receiving votes" section you cannot help but conclude that some of these voters used a dart board.