NDSU Individual Tickets

[Vitojr130]

Looks like they sold out in just over 2 hours. Nice.

[darell1976]

Looks like they sold out in just over 2 hours. Nice.

Are you guys expecting a sellout crowd for Ferris State?

[aces1180]

Are you guys expecting a sellout crowd for Ferris State?

Tickets for all games are gone, including standing room only.

Considering the fact that they are raising another banner and the slight possibility that the Herd is coming off an upset in Manhattan, the Ferris State game will be well attended again.

I doubt people will stay longer than halftime, however. It will be nice to see the future starters play against someone other than their own teammates.

[IBleedYellow]

They finally posted our TV commercial, aswell!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PPh-Kx6rqo

[Trumpster]

I got my tickets for all the games, that's all that I care about.

[Professor Chaos]

Are you guys expecting a sellout crowd for Ferris State?
Yes, all tickets are sold and fans will be pumped up to see the Bison get back on the field and the banner getting raised but I'd expect it to be a very early departing crowd. "TO THE TURF!!!!"

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Yes, all tickets are sold and fans will be pumped up to see the Bison get back on the field and the banner getting raised but I'd expect it to be a very early departing crowd. "TO THE TURF!!!!"

I'm taking my son to the KU/USD game that night so I will probably only see the first half or so.

[darell1976]

Yes, all tickets are sold and fans will be pumped up to see the Bison get back on the field and the banner getting raised but I'd expect it to be a very early departing crowd. "TO THE TURF!!!!"

At least the game counts a little since they changed the rules for DII teams. I am sure it will be over by the end of the first quarter.

[Hammerhead]

For non-NDSU fans, The Turf refers to a bar next to the NDSU campus called The Bison Turf. :)


Yes, all tickets are sold and fans will be pumped up to see the Bison get back on the field and the banner getting raised but I'd expect it to be a very early departing crowd. "TO THE TURF!!!!"

[AmsterBison]

Yes, all tickets are sold and fans will be pumped up to see the Bison get back on the field and the banner getting raised but I'd expect it to be a very early departing crowd. "TO THE TURF!!!!"

The only way that I'll ever leave a Bison game early is on a stretcher.

[gotts]

Pretty sure that the only way that I'll leave a Bison game early is on a stretcher.

...in need of a liver transplant.

[MplsBison]

Tickets for all games are gone, including standing room only.

Considering the fact that they are raising another banner and the slight possibility that the Herd is coming off an upset in Manhattan, the Ferris State game will be well attended again.

I doubt people will stay longer than halftime, however. It will be nice to see the future starters play against someone other than their own teammates.

Not to mention the main factor: people love *BISON* football and the tailgating, socializing and "big to do" status that goes along with it. You come to the Fargodome to watch the Bison play. Not the other team.

[darell1976]

For non-NDSU fans, The Turf refers to a bar next to the NDSU campus called The Bison Turf. :)

I thought Chubs was the place to go. :)

[MplsBison]

Here's the Forum link, by the way: http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/407813/group/Sports/


It's this simple: time to start cutting out student tickets.

Sorry, but the Fargodome can't be expanded and there are paying folks who would buy those seats.


Until (and IF) demand dies down...cut the student section down to 2k or maybe 2500.

[Professor Chaos]

The only way that I'll ever leave a Bison game early is on a stretcher.
I'll wait until at least the middle of the 3rd quarter but I doubt I'll be there until the final bell in that one.

[UNDBIZ]

Here's the Forum link, by the way: http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/407813/group/Sports/


It's this simple: time to start cutting out student tickets.

Sorry, but the Fargodome can't be expanded and there are paying folks who would buy those seats.


Until (and IF) demand dies down...cut the student section down to 2k or maybe 2500.

You've got to remember that a large portion of student fees go to support the athletic department. The students are paying for those seats, whether they attend or not.

[Vitojr130]

Here's the Forum link, by the way: http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/407813/group/Sports/


It's this simple: time to start cutting out student tickets.

Sorry, but the Fargodome can't be expanded and there are paying folks who would buy those seats.


Until (and IF) demand dies down...cut the student section down to 2k or maybe 2500.

I don't think so. The student section was packed with very few not in attendance last season and for most of the previous season.

Also, are you implying the students don't pay for those seats? I thought that this was where the athletic events ticket fee that comes with our semester charges went to, but I guess we aren't paying xcrazyx

[MplsBison]

You've got to remember that a large portion of student fees go to support the athletic department. The students are paying for those seats, whether they attend or not.

I was waiting for this argument.

Over 14k students pay full time costs to be enrolled at NDSU. Those costs include the fees you mention, which support the athletic department. But there aren't 14k student section seats. So no matter what, some students will not be able to attend the game for free.


Therefore, you argument is nullified in my opinion.

[MplsBison]

I don't think so. The student section was packed with very few not in attendance last season and for most of the previous season.

Also, are you implying the students don't pay for those seats? I thought that this was where the athletic events ticket fee that comes with our semester charges went to, but I guess we aren't paying xcrazyx

You'll still be paying the fee, regardless how many seats are set aside for students. Then on top of that, even more money comes in for people willing to pay for the newly freed up seats.

And with a smaller student section, only the most loyal, rabid students will be able to get those seats. Just the kind of student section we want anyway. Heck, maybe you limit it to upperclassman? A "right of passage" so to speak.


Seems like a double win for the school.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I was waiting for this argument.

Over 14k students pay full time costs to be enrolled at NDSU. Those costs include the fees you mention, which support the athletic department. But there aren't 14k student section seats. So no matter what, some students will not be able to attend the game for free.


Therefore, you argument is nullified in my opinion.


Boy, glad you won that argument.

The tickets in the student sections are a concession by the athletic department in consideration of the significant contribution from student fees that are made, it is not ever supposed to be a 1:1 tradeoff. This is a university, is it not?

[Bisonator]

You'll still be paying the fee, regardless how many seats are set aside for students. Then on top of that, even more money comes in for people willing to pay for the newly freed up seats.

And with a smaller student section, only the most loyal, rabid students will be able to get those seats. Just the kind of student section we want anyway. Heck, maybe you limit it to upperclassman? A "right of passage" so to speak.


Seems like a double win for the school.

xnonono2x

[344Johnson]

You'll still be paying the fee, regardless how many seats are set aside for students. Then on top of that, even more money comes in for people willing to pay for the newly freed up seats.

And with a smaller student section, only the most loyal, rabid students will be able to get those seats. Just the kind of student section we want anyway. Heck, maybe you limit it to upperclassman? A "right of passage" so to speak.


Seems like a double win for the school.

You want kids to wait til they are a soph, jr, or senior to attend games? That sounds like a disaster.

[BisonBohl]

Here's the Forum link, by the way: http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/407813/group/Sports/


It's this simple: time to start cutting out student tickets.

Sorry, but the Fargodome can't be expanded and there are paying folks who would buy those seats.


Until (and IF) demand dies down...cut the student section down to 2k or maybe 2500.


Wow you really are that stupid...terrible idea.

[word]

You'll still be paying the fee, regardless how many seats are set aside for students. Then on top of that, even more money comes in for people willing to pay for the newly freed up seats.

And with a smaller student section, only the most loyal, rabid students will be able to get those seats. Just the kind of student section we want anyway. Heck, maybe you limit it to upperclassman? A "right of passage" so to speak.


Seems like a double win for the school.


You obviously never attended NDSU. Go start another thread and talk yourself in circles.

[dewey]

Here is an article from the Fargo Forum on how fast the tickets went this morning.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/407813/group/Sports/

FARGO – Remaining single-game North Dakota State football tickets that went on sale at 8 a.m. today were gone by around 9:30. It smashed last year's record of taking just over a day for the season to be sold out.

It’s a different world these days than the one assistant ticket manager Kay Ternes remembers when she first started working in the office in 1999. It used to be just her and director of ticket operations Josh Hemingway in the office when single game tickets went on sale and not much extra help was needed.

“Obviously, it’s a lot more hectic,” she said. “Back then, we could take care of everybody. Now they’re waiting in line for an hour and a half to get to the window and we may not have any tickets left.”

The only possibilities now for NDSU fans is to check the day before a game for returned tickets, such as from Bison players or the opposing team. Other possible options include online exchange sites like Stubhub.com.

There were only between 1,000 and 1,400 single game tickets available for each game at Gate City Bank Field at the Fargodome. Season tickets were capped at 12,100 and NDSU students get a reserved allotment of 4,000.

The rest is an assortment of complimentary tickets, mostly for players. The dome seats 18,700 for football with standing room pushing capacity to around 19,000.

Dewey

[DJKyR0]

It's this simple: time to start cutting out student tickets.


http://i.imgur.com/04SLJrX.jpg

lol. MplsBison be trollin'.

[MplsBison]

Boy, glad you won that argument.

The tickets in the student sections are a concession by the athletic department in consideration of the significant contribution from student fees that are made, it is not ever supposed to be a 1:1 tradeoff. This is a university, is it not?

I agree with you, it's not a 1:1 ratio.

Therefore, both 4000 student seats and 2000 student seats satisfy the criteria.

[MplsBison]

xnonono2x

Am I wrong?

No. You just don't have a response.

[MplsBison]

You want kids to wait til they are a soph, jr, or senior to attend games? That sounds like a disaster.

No.

Merely suggested it offhand, perhaps as a way to appease upperclassmen who would feel slighted by the new policy. The percentage of underclassmen making up the new, reduced student section would ultimately not matter to me.

[MplsBison]

Wow you really are that stupid...terrible idea.

It's a very reasonable idea.

I'd be happy to entertain an intelligent discussion about it. I guess you wouldn't qualify.

[MplsBison]

You obviously never attended NDSU. Go start another thread and talk yourself in circles.

I not only attended, but graduated. And attended every home football game (and a few away games) in my time as an undergrad there.

[MplsBison]

lol. MplsBison be trollin'.

Meh. I knew the undergrad students who post as NDSU fans would be up in arms at the idea.

Their disgruntled disposition could be sensed remotely as they descended upon the IACC labs to groupflame.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Meh. I knew the undergrad students who post as NDSU fans would be up in arms at the idea.

Their disgruntled disposition could be sensed remotely as they descended upon the IACC labs to groupflame.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bobp5OHVsWY

[UNDBIZ]

Hey students, I know you paid for these tickets, but you know what? We can make a lot more money by selling the tickets you already paid for to somebody else. So SURPRISE!! You don't get to go to the game anymore! By the way, we also raised your tuition by 9% xthumbsupx

[aces1180]

Meh. I knew the undergrad students who post as NDSU fans would be up in arms at the idea.

Their disgruntled disposition could be sensed remotely as they descended upon the IACC labs to groupflame.

It's not just undergrad students that think the idea is whack.

As a Teammaker, season ticket holder and two-time alumnus of NDSU, I think taking away anything from the students is a terrible idea.

[MplsBison]

Hey students, I know you paid for these tickets, but you know what? We can make a lot more money by selling the tickets you already paid for to somebody else. So SURPRISE!! You don't get to go to the game anymore! By the way, we also raised your tuition by 9% xthumbsupx

I take it you support increasing the student seating section to more than 14k.

Otherwise, you invalidated your own argument.

[MplsBison]

It's not just undergrad students that think the idea is whack.

As a Teammaker, season ticket holder and two-time alumnus of NDSU, I think taking away anything from the students is a terrible idea.

I take it you support increasing the student seating section to more than 14k.

Otherwise, you invalidated your own argument.

[aces1180]

I take it you support increasing the student seating section to more than 14k.

Otherwise, you invalidated your own argument.

How did I do that? I think they should leave it as is by not taking away anything that is currently in place. If more revenue is needed, I say jack up the prices of the single-game (and eventually season) tickets. No reason to put the screws to the 4,000 students who already get to attend if they are proactive enough to reserve their ticket in advance.

[UNDBIZ]

I take it you support increasing the student seating section to more than 14k.

Otherwise, you invalidated your own argument.

My argument still appears valid to me. Please explain why 14K tickets would need to be set aside when on average, only 4,000 (maybe 5k) would be used?

[MplsBison]

How did I do that? I think they should leave it as is by not taking away anything that is currently in place. If more revenue is needed, I say jack up the prices of the single-game (and eventually season) tickets. No reason to put the screws to the 4,000 students who already get to attend if they are proactive enough to reserve their ticket in advance.

Instead, put the screws to the 2000 people who would've bought season tickets if more seats had been available?

Sorry - you're going to lose that argument every time as a matter of principle.


It'd be one thing if NDSU's student body was 4k. But as of now, most NDSU students can't get into the game for free. So what's the different between 10k students not getting a free seat (but paying for one with fees) and 12k students in the same boat?

[MplsBison]

My argument still appears valid to me. Please explain why 14K tickets would need to be set aside when on average, only 4,000 (maybe 5k) would be used?

NDSU's student body is more than 14k.

[Trumpster]

All practically speaking. You don't want to cut student tickets in half. You will lose support of the student population and today's students are tomorrow's boosters.

[word]

Instead, put the screws to the 2000 people who would've bought season tickets if more seats had been available?

Sorry - you're going to lose that argument every time as a matter of principle.


How are you putting the screws to them? Charging them and then saying "just kidding those seats weren't really available, but we will keep your money?" (sarcasm)

Please go on a few more rabid tangents and get axed.

[UNDBIZ]

NDSU's student body is more than 14k.

I don't see what that has to do with what I posted, I just used the number you did. But if that number bothered you, please explain why 15,500 tickets would need to be set aside when on average, only 4,000 (maybe 5k) would be used?

[344Johnson]

Any student who really wants to go to a game has every opportunity to get a ticket. MLPS's theory is flawed.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Instead, put the screws to the 2000 people who would've bought season tickets if more seats had been available?

Sorry - you're going to lose that argument every time as a matter of principle.


It'd be one thing if NDSU's student body was 4k. But as of now, most NDSU students can't get into the game for free. So what's the different between 10k students not getting a free seat (but paying for one with fees) and 12k students in the same boat?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZN5PoW7_kdA/0.jpg

[UNDBIZ]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZN5PoW7_kdA/0.jpg

Ugh, which ndsu cheerleader do those teeth belong to? xangelx

[aces1180]

Instead, put the screws to the 2000 people who would've bought season tickets if more seats had been available?

Sorry - you're going to lose that argument every time as a matter of principle.


It'd be one thing if NDSU's student body was 4k. But as of now, most NDSU students can't get into the game for free. So what's the different between 10k students not getting a free seat (but paying for one with fees) and 12k students in the same boat?

Those 2,000 had their chance to purchase a few years ago, but didn't. Taking away from students is not only bad PR, but bad business.

[DJKyR0]

Ugh, which ndsu cheerleader do those teeth belong to? xangelx

Hey, at least they have teeth.

[UNDBIZ]

Hey, at least they have teeth.

Oh come on, the SDSU fans aren't even here to defend themselves.....

[No_Skill]

Instead, put the screws to the 2000 people who would've bought season tickets if more seats had been available?

Sorry - you're going to lose that argument every time as a matter of principle.


It'd be one thing if NDSU's student body was 4k. But as of now, most NDSU students can't get into the game for free. So what's the different between 10k students not getting a free seat (but paying for one with fees) and 12k students in the same boat?

Your 14k statement assumes that all 14k want to attend. That isn't the case. That argument is invalid.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Messing with the student section was tried at UM for bball as dback and I just discussed the other day. It was an utter failure and indeed has changed students views on paying athletic fees (try raising them round here and see where that gets ya) since they got screwed on the value they was perceived previously.

It also takes away a good deal from the atmosphere. MPLS, your argument is invalid if you think things through to their logical conclusion.

You start screwing the students and you are screwing the program so hopefully that does not happen with good minds running the show. These things don't work in a vacuum like you present them...they have unintended consequences.

[Bisonoline]

I see the troll got the response he wanted.

[Twentysix]

The only way that I'll ever leave a Bison game early is on a stretcher.

agreed, it could be 10000 0 and I would stay, even if it were against.

NDSU needs to start fundraising a new stadium asap, and in a larger stadium give more than 4000 student tickets. Imo the number of student tickets should be held right around 30% of total enrollment. About 5000 tickets should be given to students in a newer bigger stadium.

A plan to sell unused student tickets as general admission tickets in the upper rows of said section...say, the Thursday before the game, would be totally valid though.

[MplsBison]

How are you putting the screws to them? Charging them and then saying "just kidding those seats weren't really available, but we will keep your money?" (sarcasm)

Please go on a few more rabid tangents and get axed.

You're putting the screws to them by not making more season tickets available for purchase. That was axiomatic from the statement.

[MplsBison]

I don't see what that has to do with what I posted, I just used the number you did. But if that number bothered you, please explain why 15,500 tickets would need to be set aside when on average, only 4,000 (maybe 5k) would be used?

If NDSU's student body were 15,500, then via student fees that would be 15,500 tickets that every student has purchased to every game.

[MplsBison]

Any student who really wants to go to a game has every opportunity to get a ticket. MLPS's theory is flawed.

Any student who really wants to go to a game has every opportunity to get one of 2000 tickets.

[MplsBison]

Those 2,000 had their chance to purchase a few years ago, but didn't. Taking away from students is not only bad PR, but bad business.

You're already taking away from students by not giving every student that pays for a student ticket via fees a student ticket.

Isn't that bad business?

[MplsBison]

I also find it funny that everyone arguing against me here collectively haven't put a single ounce of contemplation into asking if 4000 tickets are actually *enough* to satisfy student demand. I'd wager students could probably fill a 6k section without much problem.

But then try to go the other way....holy heck! I bet if I had even proposed going from 4k to 3k I would've gotten the same reaction.

4k must be some kind of magic number in Fargo.

[MplsBison]

Your 14k statement assumes that all 14k want to attend. That isn't the case. That argument is invalid.

So you must advocate that any student who has no interest in attending the games may opt out of paying the fee?

[MplsBison]

Messing with the student section was tried at UM for bball as dback and I just discussed the other day. It was an utter failure and indeed has changed students views on paying athletic fees (try raising them round here and see where that gets ya) since they got screwed on the value they was perceived previously.

It also takes away a good deal from the atmosphere. MPLS, your argument is invalid if you think things through to their logical conclusion.

You start screwing the students and you are screwing the program so hopefully that does not happen with good minds running the show. These things don't work in a vacuum like you present them...they have unintended consequences.

ursus, good post.

That kind of argument actually stands a chance in front of people like the NDSU president. A peer school to NDSU already tried reducing the student section and the result was it made increasing student fees much more difficult.

If that is in fact true (and I believe you), then it is a worthwhile argument to be considered.


But this "you have to keep giving us 4k because that's what it was before!" whiny, emotional appeal ... NDSU's prez would correctly nod his head and then sign the order to reduce the student section.

[Southern Bison]

Dude! Did you seriously just troll post 7 in a row? I agree with 26 that it's time to start fundraising for a new stadium (indoor for the noise factor) and I also agree with UAH that you don't reduce the number of seats for the students. You, however, make it sound like you never attended a game while you were supposedly there, got a Master's in BS...I mean a BS in Accounting, and you only look at the numbers rather than the intangibles of the hours I enjoyed hanging out in line waiting for the doors to open and the pre-game time that we were relentless on the visitor's bench. You won't get that happen with the extra 2000 season-ticket holders.

Your diploma may say "North Dakota State" but the College of Science is not part of the Bison family.

[aces1180]

You're already taking away from students by not giving every student that pays for a student ticket via fees a student ticket.

Isn't that bad business?

As someone already said, not all students want to go to the games. 4K is the number that was agreed to by both the athletic department and student government.

If you are so up in arms about the number, why don't you call GT and the student body president at NDSU to voice your concerns. I'm sure that would be more than happy to hear from you.

[IBleedYellow]

Why has noone posted this yet?!

Come on people!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN5PoW7_kdA


Also: The students need to fill up the stands a little more, they do have "some" poor showings, but they shouldn't lose their 4k seats.

[344Johnson]

I also find it funny that everyone arguing against me here collectively haven't put a single ounce of contemplation into asking if 4000 tickets are actually *enough* to satisfy student demand. I'd wager students could probably fill a 6k section without much problem.

But then try to go the other way....holy heck! I bet if I had even proposed going from 4k to 3k I would've gotten the same reaction.

4k must be some kind of magic number in Fargo.

Very rarely could NDSU get 6,000 students to show up.

4K is about the right number. I'd be ok with 3500 though too. Any less.....I'd be disappointed.

[gotts]

I also find it funny that everyone arguing against me here collectively haven't put a single ounce of contemplation into asking if 4000 tickets are actually *enough* to satisfy student demand. I'd wager students could probably fill a 6k section without much problem.

But then try to go the other way....holy heck! I bet if I had even proposed going from 4k to 3k I would've gotten the same reaction.

4k must be some kind of magic number in Fargo.

Student allotment is 3800. Just sayin'

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If anyone cares to do so that knows the numbers....

How much do the student athletic fees bring in total?

What is the value of the total amount of student tickets alloted for all sports?

I'm just assuming here but I'd bet there is a formula at work which brings things to about even. Part of the decision is probably also based on what the normal student demand is. I mean if you normally get around 4K wanting tickets then why move it up? I can see why you wouldn't want to reduce it though.

[BisonFan02]

ursus, good post.

That kind of argument actually stands a chance in front of people like the NDSU president. A peer school to NDSU already tried reducing the student section and the result was it made increasing student fees much more difficult.

If that is in fact true (and I believe you), then it is a worthwhile argument to be considered.


But this "you have to keep giving us 4k because that's what it was before!" whiny, emotional appeal ... NDSU's prez would correctly nod his head and then sign the order to reduce the student section.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/2f7c9a9d448cfc40a761863a2c1b7e72/tumblr_mob58hwzxp1rnikqmo1_250.gif

[frozennorth]

I take it you support increasing the student seating section to more than 14k.

Otherwise, you invalidated your own argument.
the student section should be large enough to accommodate the minimum demand for student tickets.

[Twentysix]

If anyone cares to do so that knows the numbers....

How much do the student athletic fees bring in total?

What is the value of the total amount of student tickets alloted for all sports?

I'm just assuming here but I'd bet there is a formula at work which brings things to about even. Part of the decision is probably also based on what the normal student demand is. I mean if you normally get around 4K wanting tickets then why move it up? I can see why you wouldn't want to reduce it though.

3m+/yr as a rough estimate. It's something like 11$ a credit iirc x 15 credit cap x 10000 fulltime students.

Actually, I looked it up, its 10.90 a credit lol.

[IBleedYellow]

We have closer to 15k students than 10k students now.

Also, are they only able to tack the fee on the first 15 credits? Because we can take up to 22 credits with adviser approval or 20 without approval.

[Twentysix]

We have closer to 15k students than 10k students now.

Also, are they only able to tack the fee on the first 15 credits? Because we can take up to 22 credits with adviser approval or 20 without approval.

Costs end at Full time enrollment at NDSU, as a student you should understand how you pay ;).

NDSU has just under 15,000 students but several thousand are grads who take 6 credits a semester (Should they have an assistantship), and several thousand others do not go Full time. Base rate was 12 credits a semester, but Mr. Pres kicked it up to 15 for the media, saying it would graduate kids faster.

[tourguide]

ursus, good post.

That kind of argument actually stands a chance in front of people like the NDSU president. A peer school to NDSU already tried reducing the student section and the result was it made increasing student fees much more difficult.

If that is in fact true (and I believe you), then it is a worthwhile argument to be considered.


But this "you have to keep giving us 4k because that's what it was before!" whiny, emotional appeal ... NDSU's prez would correctly nod his head and then sign the order to reduce the student section.

You amaze me every time how you can puke on a keyboard and think your are making sense!! You seriously didnt factor in that taking money from the students to give them something, and then taking part of that something away might hinder future attempts to potentially raise student fees? No seriously, that never crossed your mind? People dont argue the obvious with you because its obvious, somehow you tend to always miss the obvious. Your troll tactics win yet another thread!!

[AmsterBison]

3m+/yr as a rough estimate. It's something like 11$ a credit iirc x 15 credit cap x 10000 fulltime students.

Actually, I looked it up, its 10.90 a credit lol.

That must be all student fees. Only $1 million in student fees at NDSU goes to the athletic department. Heck, there was a huge s**t storm because people thought that NDSU might raise student fees even though NDSU hadn't even floated the idea with the students.

USA Today compiled a database earlier that shows student fee support: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1

BTW, I'm not 100% confident in their numbers considering that their data shows that NDSU's contributions went down half a mill in 2011 when they actually went up.

My rule for athletics: Never take anything from the students without their consent and without giving them something in return.

[IBleedYellow]

Costs end at Full time enrollment at NDSU, as a student you should understand how you pay ;).

NDSU has just under 15,000 students but several thousand are grads who take 6 credits a semester (Should they have an assistantship), and several thousand others do not go Full time. Base rate was 12 credits a semester, but Mr. Pres kicked it up to 15 for the media, saying it would graduate kids faster.

I may be a student, but I don't pay attention to what I pay, probably should, but I just pay the tuition check when they tell me it's due.

I'll agree your math is probably the most realistic for calculating income from student fees.

[Twentysix]

That must be all student fees. Only $1 million in student fees at NDSU goes to the athletic department. Heck, there was a huge s**t storm because people thought that NDSU might raise student fees even though NDSU hadn't even floated the idea with the students.

USA Today compiled a database earlier that shows student fee support: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1

BTW, I'm not 100% confident in their numbers considering that their data shows that NDSU's contributions went down half a mill in 2011 when they actually went up.

My rule for athletics: Never take anything from the students without their consent and without giving them something in return.

My reply to their data is, a $19 (2011: 1,065,740 2010: 1,065,759) difference in student fees from one year to the next seems pretty suspect as well. NDSU probably has the exact data stashed on their website(esp being a public instiution), it's just a freaking maze to find anything. Heck even the asbestos logs of on campus buildings are accessible without any sort of security.

It's an activity fee, it probably ALSO pays for things like comedians and shows etc, basically any kind of extra curricular activity. All the fees amount to about $50 a credit. (which at their cap quotes 12 credits, I am unsure if this lacks being updated or if brescani's 15 credit fulltime thing was pure media hype)



Student Fees
Student fees are assessed to provide student services. These fees are reviewed and approved by the NDSU Student Senate. All students are required to pay Student Fees regardless of the personal benefit gained from the corresponding service.
Student Fees
Fall 2013/Spring 2014
Activity Fee $10.90
Union Bond $3.85
Career Services $1.83
Technology Fee $8.44
Student Health Fee $4.75
Wellness Center Fee $10.30
Library Fee $3.32
ND Student Association $0.03
ConnectND Fee $6.75

Total per credit $50.17
Base Rate Total $601.98

http://www.ndsu.edu/bisonconnection/accounts/tuition/

There is an aquatic center fee that is not appearing on the website, so its possible the 12/15 credit FTE thing just hasn't been updated, but it is also possible the pricing model didn't change and Brescani was just throwing the press some kind of political sound byte.

[Twentysix]

I may be a student, but I don't pay attention to what I pay, probably should, but I just pay the tuition check when they tell me it's due.

I'll agree your math is probably the most realistic for calculating income from student fees.

How the money is divvied up would be more telling. It's entirely possible athletics only gets ~30%.

[aces1180]

Student allotment is 3800. Just sayin'

Sorry gotts...It's 4,000.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/407813/group/Sports/


There were only between 1,000 and 1,400 single-game tickets available for each game at Gate City Bank Field at the Fargodome. Season tickets were capped at 12,100, and NDSU students get a reserved allotment of 4,000.

[AmsterBison]

It's an activity fee, it probably ALSO pays for things like comedians and shows etc, basically any kind of extra curricular activity. All the fees amount to about $50 a credit. (which at their cap quotes 12 credits, unsure if this lacks being updated or if brescani's 15 credit fulltime thing was pure media hype)

That makes sense. So if your calculations are correct, and I think they are pretty close, then 1/3 of the student activity fee goes to the athletic department.

The primary function of student government at NDSU is to allocate the money collected from student fee and, based on what I've read, that would include funding 150 or so clubs. Maybe student government produces some financial statements - I couldn't find them though.

[Twentysix]

That makes sense. So if your calculations are correct, and I think they are pretty close, then 1/3 of the student activity fee goes to the athletic department.

The primary function of student government at NDSU is to allocate the money collected from student fee and, based on what I've read, that would include funding 150 or so clubs. Maybe student government produces some financial statements - I couldn't find them though.

I would guess I undershot the total $ value of student activity fees by a little, for two main reasons, I ignored summer credits and DCE credits. I also think I undershot the number of total FTE by a bit.

[Twentysix]

I would also have to agree with amsterbison's sentiment of not taking things away unless they are utterly ridiculous.

The # of student seats should stay the same, and when a newer bigger stadium is built, it should increase. NDSU's football attendance won't always be under 20,000, but as it grows, the university's enrollment will also grow.

[Twentysix]

Sorry gotts...It's 4,000.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/407813/group/Sports/

200 of which are given to the band (who are students). You both win.

[Vitojr130]

My mandatory student fees total $419 this upcoming 19 credit semester. I think the athletic fees are indeed $11 per credit up to the cap. Assuming the average student is enrolled for about 12 credits, the athletic dept. brings in $1.3 million per semester from student fees...

[Twentysix]

My mandatory student fees total $419 this upcoming 19 credit semester. I think the athletic fees are indeed $11 per credit up to the cap. Assuming the average student is enrolled for about 12 credits, the athletic dept. brings in $1.3 million per semester from student fees...

Plus summer credits plus DCE credits (DCE credits don't cap, any student always pays fees on them).

But it does make sense that some of that fee runs things outside of athletics. Again, I am sure all of this data exists on ndsu.edu; but how the hell can one find it, lol.

[Vitojr130]

I would also have to agree with amsterbison's sentiment of not taking things away unless they are utterly ridiculous.

The # of student seats should stay the same, and when a newer bigger stadium is built, it should increase. NDSU's football attendance won't always be under 20,000, but as it grows, the university's enrollment will also grow.

I agree and I think the city and NDSU should go about it the same way they did with the Fargodome. I don't think the Fargodome has had a year where it didn't turn a profit.

Make it a 30-35k seat stadium. Given the FM metro of 225,000, there is no way we wouldn't fill that if we keep up the winning.

[Twentysix]

I agree and I think the city and NDSU should go about it the same way they did with the Fargodome. I don't think the Fargodome has had a year where it didn't turn a profit.

Make it a 30-35k seat stadium. Given the FM metro of 225,000, there is no way we wouldn't fill that if we keep up the winning.

Even if it doesn't fill the year it is built, it will fill well within its life time, just like the current Fargodome did.

[Vitojr130]

Yeah no kidding. Campus connection doesn't help at all when it comes to breaking down the fees. It just tells me they are making me $419 closer towards being broke for "mandatory" student fees. xlolx

[Twentysix]

My Activity fee is $419.40 also. And it was 53.88 this summer. There is a sort of humor to the name change, on the ndsu.edu website the fee is called "student activity fee" and on the itemized bill its called "mandatory student fee".

EDIT: I think in the bill its the activity fee and a few others rolled into one, cause it divides out to 27.96 a credit (at a 15 credit cap, if it is a 12 credit cap it is even more expensive), nearly 3 times the price listed on ndsu's website.

[IBleedYellow]

Fargodome 2.0

Let's do it.

After we get funding for the SHAC.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Fargodome 2.0

Let's do it.

After we get funding for the SHAC.

Just an exact replica of the dome would cost almost $90 million in inflation adjusted dollars.

The SHAC project is having trouble coming up with 3-4 million to finish their fundraising. Where does ANYONE think this money is coming from?

[Vitojr130]

Even if it doesn't fill the year it is built, it will fill well within its life time, just like the current Fargodome did.

One of my friends heard that the BSA received over 40,000 phone calls requesting tickets yesterday. PHONE CALLS. That isn't including Neulion (blah) requests.

[Twentysix]

Just an exact replica of the dome would cost almost $90 million in inflation adjusted dollars.

The SHAC project is having trouble coming up with 3-4 million to finish their fundraising. Where does ANYONE think this money is coming from?

Add some kind of stadium tax to each seat. I would have paid $50 a seat instead of $35 with no reason at all, even if I didn't know it was going in a bank account to add interest when it's finally time to build a new stadium (perhaps this isn't allowed, someone let me know!). It will never happen if it doesn't start sometime. I also think more money will appear for football than the other sports, but I could be wrong.

[IBleedYellow]

I'm also at that same price point for student fees.

Sidenote: DCE classes totally SCREW YOU for tuition costs. Ouch.

[Vitojr130]

Just an exact replica of the dome would cost almost $90 million in inflation adjusted dollars.

The SHAC project is having trouble coming up with 3-4 million to finish their fundraising. Where does ANYONE think this money is coming from?

Adjusted for inflation, the .5% sales tax increase would pay it off in the same amount of time, assuming people buy the same amount of stuff that they have over the last 20 years xlolx

[Twentysix]

One of my friends heard that the BSA received over 40,000 phone calls requesting tickets yesterday. PHONE CALLS. That isn't including Neulion (blah) requests.

To be fair I called 100 times with google voice using the dialer app, didn't get through once.

[Twentysix]

I'm also at that same price point for student fees.

Sidenote: DCE classes totally SCREW YOU for tuition costs. Ouch.

Yeah, avoid them like the plague if you can. Sometimes the same class (diff time/instructor) is offered in a different section and is not DCE. Ofc this becomes more rare as you ascend the credit ladder.

[IBleedYellow]

Yeah, avoid them like the plague if you can. Sometimes the same class (diff time/instructor) is offered in a different section and is not DCE. Ofc this becomes more rare as you ascend the credit ladder.


I mean, I know this, and like I said, I rarely pay attention to the prices, but this semester I have to do 3 online classes. I nearly fell out of my chair when I realized my tuition almost doubled. Only 1 more year...

[Twentysix]

I mean, I know this, and like I said, I rarely pay attention to the prices, but this semester I have to do 3 online classes. I nearly fell out of my chair when I realized my tuition almost doubled. Only 1 more year...

Heh, yeah, even with DCE crap we have it really good at NDSU. I occasionally go tuition shopping at other schools to keep NDSU's price in perspective. A lot of places 1 semester costs more than a BS/BA at NDSU.

[IBleedYellow]

Heh, yeah, even with DCE crap we have it really good at NDSU. I occasionally go tuition shopping at other schools to keep NDSU's price in perspective. A lot of places 1 semester costs more than a BS/BA at NDSU.

Remember my 11.6% lower tution stat on the facts? That's from personal experience.

[Bisonator]

Add some kind of stadium tax to each seat. I would have paid $50 a seat instead of $35 with no reason at all, even if I didn't know it was going in a bank account to add interest when it's finally time to build a new stadium (perhaps this isn't allowed, someone let me know!). It will never happen if it doesn't start sometime. I also think more money will appear for football than the other sports, but I could be wrong.

This should have been happening since the dome was completed. It's only a matter of time until a new facility is needed. Typical though always planning ahead! xrolleyesx

[FargoBison]

Fargodome 2.0

Let's do it.

After we get funding for the SHAC.

More like Dacotah Field 2.0...at least then the stadium can be expandable and cheaper to build.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

This should have been happening since the dome was completed. It's only a matter of time until a new facility is needed. Typical though always planning ahead! xrolleyesx

That was the city. I remember back when they were planning the whole thing. It started as an addition to the Civic Center then a whole new Civic Center, then NDSU got involved as a replacement for Dacotah Field. 20 years ago they didn't need 30k. Unfortunately they spent $50 million on that.

By comparison. Washington-Grizzly which broke ground only 5 years earlier, cost $1 million.

A lot of permanent, expensive decisions made back then.

[Grizalltheway]

I not only attended, but graduated. And attended every home football game (and a few away games) in my time as an undergrad there.

Much to the shagrin of everyone associated with the school or program, I'm sure.

[Gil Dobie]

That was the city. I remember back when they were planning the whole thing. It started as an addition to the Civic Center then a whole new Civic Center, then NDSU got involved as a replacement for Dacotah Field. 20 years ago they didn't need 30k. Unfortunately they spent $50 million on that.

By comparison. Washington-Grizzly which broke ground only 5 years earlier, cost $1 million.

A lot of permanent, expensive decisions made back then.

No one back then thought NDSU would be back to back FCS champions at this point. Let's see if NDSU has a couple losing seasons, if the crowd still shows up. The Fargodome is fine for now. When it sells out for 10 straight years, then it's time to talk about a new home. It could happen, Fargo is growing, oil is booming, and people that were so-so Bison fans are now flocking to the dome for games.

Speaking of Oil Money, is there enough to build a couple new stadiums for NDSU and UND?

[Grizalltheway]

That was the city. I remember back when they were planning the whole thing. It started as an addition to the Civic Center then a whole new Civic Center, then NDSU got involved as a replacement for Dacotah Field. 20 years ago they didn't need 30k. Unfortunately they spent $50 million on that.

By comparison. Washington-Grizzly which broke ground only 5 years earlier, cost $1 million.

A lot of permanent, expensive decisions made back then.

Yeah, much like UND, we lucked out in having a local billionare willing to foot the entire bill. Although, I believe the original capacity was only around 12,500.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yeah, much like UND, we lucked out in having a local billionare willing to foot the entire bill. Although, I believe the original capacity was only around 12,500.
And at most of the games even that wasn't full. I remember being at one game and the announcer rolled of the attendance at something in the high 7K area and thinking "Jeez, I guess we didn't need those extra 4K seasts". xlolx

I think it might have been Portland State in maybe early 1987 or 1988 when they were still D2. It was pretty damn sparse.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Yeah, much like UND, we lucked out in having a local billionare willing to foot the entire bill. Although, I believe the original capacity was only around 12,500.

I doubt if all the expansions over the years have totaled $78 million which is what the FD cost to build in adjusted dollars.

That's why I say they were permanent decisions - no chance to expand much less double in size for a huge price tag.

[darell1976]

No one back then thought NDSU would be back to back FCS champions at this point. Let's see if NDSU has a couple losing seasons, if the crowd still shows up. The Fargodome is fine for now. When it sells out for 10 straight years, then it's time to talk about a new home. It could happen, Fargo is growing, oil is booming, and people that were so-so Bison fans are now flocking to the dome for games.

Speaking of Oil Money, is there enough to build a couple new stadiums for NDSU and UND?

There's enough oil money for new stadiums at UND, NDSU and every college in the Dakotas. Of course that oil won't flow forever.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Ok, so NDSU has about a milion in student fees going to athletics it appears.

Does anyone have a rough estimate at the market dollar # the student tickets would cost across the sports that they are given?

4000*$150 (guessing)=$600,000 in football tickets.

$400,000 left in to cover other sporting events tickets.

Just wanted to see if the students are paying their way, overpaying, etc. I'm just making up #'s there but trying to see if there is another reason why limiting their tickets by cutting them in 1/2 would be a very poor idea. Hell in that scenario you are taking $300,000 from them in a reverse Robin Hood fashion.

MPLS brings that taking the seats away from students all the time so if it could be set aside with some facts for next year is all I'm looking for.

[Bisonator]

The NDSU student activity fee is $10.90/credit which equates to $130.80.

Last years enrollment was 14,443 x $130.80 = $1,889,144.40

3800 x $35 = $133,000.00

Not sure how many they get for the other sports but I doubt anyone really cares. Bottom line is the students are more then paying for any lost revenue with their fees. Not only that, they are the atmosphere when it comes to college sports!

[IBleedYellow]

Those number don't add up, though, Nater.

First, my total activity fees this upcoming semester are 149 or something like that. Also, the students that will actually have that full activity fee will be around 10,000. Just like TwentySix was saying.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The NDSU student activity fee is $10.90/credit which equates to $130.80.

Last years enrollment was 14,443 x $130.80 = $1,889,144.40

3800 x $35 = $133,000.00

Not sure how many they get for the other sports but I doubt anyone really cares. Bottom line is the students are more then paying for any lost revenue with their fees. Not only that, they are the atmosphere when it comes to college sports!

Indded all of that is true but that looks like a ticket price for a single game, not the amount that a season ticket would cost.

So I assume it's about $210/season for similar tickets correct? Or about $800,000 in ticket revenue for a season?

[Bisonator]

Those number don't add up, though, Nater.

First, my total activity fees this upcoming semester are 149 or something like that. Also, the students that will actually have that full activity fee will be around 10,000. Just like TwentySix was saying.

The $130.80 is for 12 credits. Not sure why yours is 149. Even so $130.80 x 10,000 = $1,308,000 which is still way more then what the tickets would cost.

[Bisonator]

Indded all of that is true but that looks like a ticket price for a single game, not the amount that a season ticket would cost.

So I assume it's about $210/season for similar tickets correct? Or about $800,000 in ticket revenue for a season?

Season tickets are $175. So say another 2000 x $175 = $350,000.

Students are still paying more so leave them be IMO.

They will never take away all of the student tickets and sell them all as season tickets. It just isn't going to happen!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Season tickets are $175. So say another 2000 x $175 = $350,000.

Students are still paying more so leave them be IMO.

They will never take away all of the student tickets and sell them all as season tickets. It just isn't going to happen!

That's what I was getting at. The total for the 4K seats would only bring in $700K more per season if all tickets were taken away and then sold to season ticket holders. The students are already contributing more than that and taking away 2K to turn into $250K in revenue would hurt the program far more than it's worth once the students said "GFY" not to mention the harm it does to atmosphere.

Students pay their way just like season ticket holders do. They just do it as a community effort.

[IBleedYellow]

What about Team Makers contributions that are required for certain seats?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

What about Team Makers contributions that are required for certain seats?

That is exactly how bball at UM got into trouble. Turning the good seats the students had into GSA seats and punching bball in the gut by putting older wealthy people where there had been intimidation and excitement. Worst move I've ever seen UM's Athletic Dept. make.

[IBleedYellow]

Our students don't exactly sit in prestine seats right now as it is.

http://gobison.com/documents/2013/5/23/FBSeasonTickets2013.pdf?tab=footballseating

[gotts]

What about Team Makers contributions that are required for certain seats?

Once you get to this point, you now have to consider the seats people have that they've been grandfathered into; not paying full TM dues for the seats.

[IBleedYellow]

Once you get to this point, you now have to consider the seats people have that they've been grandfathered into; not paying full TM dues for the seats.

Uhh, what?

We've been TM since 1992 or 93 and we still pay TM dues on each seat every year.

[aces1180]

Uhh, what?

We've been TM since 1992 or 93 and we still pay TM dues on each seat every year.

I've been a season ticket holder since 2007, as my seats in section 9 don't require membership...Lots of people in our section have season tickets without being a TM...However, I became one last year without any relation to my season tickets.

[MNBISON]

Uhh, what?

We've been TM since 1992 or 93 and we still pay TM dues on each seat every year.

Yes, I'm sure you do but take a look at what the dues are in your section now if you were new to TM's. I'll bet that number is higher than what you are currently paying.

[IBleedYellow]

Yes, I'm sure you do but take a look at what the dues are in your section now if you were new to TM's. I'll bet that number is higher than what you are currently paying.


Ding Ding.

There you go. Missed that catch.

[No_Skill]

So you must advocate that any student who has no interest in attending the games may opt out of paying the fee?

No. That's just a part of civilized societies. There are many programs that my tax dollars go to that I personally could care less about but I still pay my portion of taxes.

[No_Skill]

I agree and I think the city and NDSU should go about it the same way they did with the Fargodome. I don't think the Fargodome has had a year where it didn't turn a profit.

Make it a 30-35k seat stadium. Given the FM metro of 225,000, there is no way we wouldn't fill that if we keep up the winning.

I'd like to add that if this ever does come to pass, some consideration needs to be made for "easy and economical" expansion beyond the initial capacity.

[Southern Bison]

I'd like to add that if this ever does come to pass, some consideration needs to be made for "easy and economical" expansion beyond the initial capacity.

I don't see "easy and economical expansion" and indoor stadium in the same idea. Now a "Dacotah Field 2.0" would allow for the thrifty expansion you speak of. We went from 13,000 to 19,000 with the move to the FargoDome and it would take quite a while to max out if NDSU built a 35,000-40,000 seat stadium. IMO, if they set out to build an indoor stadium to accommodate the future 35k-40k fans, they'll be much better off cost-wise in the long run.

[No_Skill]

I don't see "easy and economical expansion" and indoor stadium in the same idea. Now a "Dacotah Field 2.0" would allow for the thrifty expansion you speak of. We went from 13,000 to 19,000 with the move to the FargoDome and it would take quite a while to max out if NDSU built a 35,000-40,000 seat stadium. IMO, if they set out to build an indoor stadium to accommodate the future 35k-40k fans, they'll be much better off cost-wise in the long run.

I don't disagree necessarily and we don't have all the facts and design considerations that went into the Fargodome. I'm just thinking along the line of not putting 4 massive roof support structures in place that prevent a "simple" expansion. You can design around most problems if cost is no issue. I'm sure those supports were the most economical way to support the roof at the time, but were the cost savings over a "self supported" system greater than the cost of a new stadium? That's a massive exaggeration but hopefully you see where I'm going.

[Southern Bison]

I don't disagree necessarily and we don't have all the facts and design considerations that went into the Fargodome. I'm just thinking along the line of not putting 4 massive roof support structures in place that prevent a "simple" expansion. You can design around most problems if cost is no issue. I'm sure those supports were the most economical way to support the roof at the time, but were the cost savings over a "self supported" system greater than the cost of a new stadium? That's a massive exaggeration but hopefully you see where I'm going.

Right now in Charlotte, the BB&T Ballpark is being built in Uptown for the Charlotte Knights. It will be a 10k-seat stadium for the AAA team of the Chicago White Sox. It was designed with the capability for a MLB team to occupy one day with expansion to more than 40,000. Even UNC-Charlotte's new stadium for the football team can go from 15k to 41k without having to start from scratch or really disturb what is already in place.

If the roof is solely supported by the 4 pillars, that could make expansion of the FargoDome possible...would have to run the numbers to see if it would be economical of course. Remove the roof, reset the pillars out further and taller and add a second deck of seats? One other factor to consider is the FAA regs for the runway that runs diagonally from the NW to SE corners of Hector.

[Twentysix]

Ok, so NDSU has about a milion in student fees going to athletics it appears.

Does anyone have a rough estimate at the market dollar # the student tickets would cost across the sports that they are given?

4000*$150 (guessing)=$600,000 in football tickets.

$400,000 left in to cover other sporting events tickets.

Just wanted to see if the students are paying their way, overpaying, etc. I'm just making up #'s there but trying to see if there is another reason why limiting their tickets by cutting them in 1/2 would be a very poor idea. Hell in that scenario you are taking $300,000 from them in a reverse Robin Hood fashion.

MPLS brings that taking the seats away from students all the time so if it could be set aside with some facts for next year is all I'm looking for.

Students aren't really given tickets anywhere else that negatively effect ticket sale numbers, there are student sections but they aren't exclusive and rarely fill outside 2-3 Mens basketball games a year. The argument doesn't hold water anywhere outside football. If you came to an NDSU basketball softball baseball etc, you could buy a general admission ticket and sit in the student section.

[Twentysix]

The $130.80 is for 12 credits. Not sure why yours is 149. Even so $130.80 x 10,000 = $1,308,000 which is still way more then what the tickets would cost.

There are 3 billable semesters, your numbers are just for one, also the activity fee seems like only part of it goes to athletics. As said before, these numbers all exist on ndsu.edu, but we don't know how to find it. My girlfriend suggests customer accounts could give an exact breakdown of the student activity fee and where each penny per credit goes, but I am not interested enough to call and ask.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I actually remember not too long ago when you could just swipe your ID to get in, no ticket necessary.

[Twentysix]

I actually remember not too long ago when you could just swipe your ID to get in, no ticket necessary.

You just showed an ID. Then you showed an ID and a ticket starting in 2009 I think. Now you swipe your ID with a preloaded ticket.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You just showed an ID. Then you showed an ID and a ticket starting in 2009 I think. Now you swipe your ID with a preloaded ticket.

My last experience was in 2005 or so.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Fella's I'm not being very clear here apparently. I'm not talking about student sections and who sits where or whatever or if they even have a ticket/card or whatever. I was just trying to see what they pay vs. what the dollar value of what is set aside for them. It doesn't matter because it's obviously only important in the football area. There is a total dollar amount of student tickets (market) that they are fairly obviously covering as it is.

[Hammersmith]

There are 3 billable semesters, your numbers are just for one, also the activity fee seems like only part of it goes to athletics. As said before, these numbers all exist on ndsu.edu, but we don't know how to find it. My girlfriend suggests customer accounts could give an exact breakdown of the student activity fee and where each penny per credit goes, but I am not interested enough to call and ask.

The student activity fee is indeed $10.90 per credit up to 12 credits(total of $130.80). The discrepancy you see is that billing lumps a few other fees together with the activity fee on your bill. Look here for the fee breakdown: http://www.ndsu.edu/bisonconnection/accounts/tuition/#c36500

You're correct in that the math should be something like ($130.80 x 14,000 x 2) + ($130.80 x 4000) = $4,185,600. 14k students times two semesters plus 4k summer students. Honestly a couple of those numbers are guesses, but the total is probably between $3.75M to $4.0M.

Now, the athletic fee isn't really an $xx.xx per credit sort of thing. It's more like athletics gets a percentage of the total. That percentage is locked in and can only be changed by student government about 1% or 2% per year(long story). If you want to know the exact amount, look for the SAF budget put out yearly by the student senate. It will be in there. I think the current amount is $1.2-1.3 million a year to athletics.

[IBleedYellow]

The student activity fee is indeed $10.90 per credit up to 12 credits(total of $130.80). The discrepancy you see is that billing lumps a few other fees together with the activity fee on your bill. Look here for the fee breakdown: http://www.ndsu.edu/bisonconnection/accounts/tuition/#c36500

You're correct in that the math should be something like ($130.80 x 14,000 x 2) + ($130.80 x 4000) = $4,185,600. 14k students times two semesters plus 4k summer students. Honestly a couple of those numbers are guesses, but the total is probably between $3.75M to $4.0M.

Now, the athletic fee isn't really an $xx.xx per credit sort of thing. It's more like athletics gets a percentage of the total. That percentage is locked in and can only be changed by student government about 1% or 2% per year(long story). If you want to know the exact amount, look for the SAF budget put out yearly by the student senate. It will be in there. I think the current amount is $1.2-1.3 million a year to athletics.

That story is awesome, that thread on Bisonville is one of the first I've enjoyed reading in quite some time over there.

Galaxy S4

[MplsBison]

Fella's I'm not being very clear here apparently. I'm not talking about student sections and who sits where or whatever or if they even have a ticket/card or whatever. I was just trying to see what they pay vs. what the dollar value of what is set aside for them. It doesn't matter because it's obviously only important in the football area. There is a total dollar amount of student tickets (market) that they are fairly obviously covering as it is.

The question was never if students fees are paying (and then some) for the market value of what those 4k seats could be sold for as season tickets.


There would be no reduction in student fees to coincide with a reduction in the student section.

[MplsBison]

No. That's just a part of civilized societies. There are many programs that my tax dollars go to that I personally could care less about but I still pay my portion of taxes.

Exactly.

So then you must agree that the following two scenarios are the same:

10,000 of 14,000 being unable to obtain a student ticket to a home football game does not entitle those 10k students to opt out of paying the student activity fee.

12,000 of 14,000 being unable to obtain a student ticket to a home football game does not entitle those 12k students to opt out of paying the student activity fee.

[MplsBison]

Much to the shagrin of everyone associated with the school or program, I'm sure.

I'm not so sure.

Perhaps if you had said a real word, like 'chagrin' for example, then I'd be more sure.

[MplsBison]

You amaze me every time how you can puke on a keyboard and think your are making sense!! You seriously didnt factor in that taking money from the students to give them something, and then taking part of that something away might hinder future attempts to potentially raise student fees? No seriously, that never crossed your mind? People dont argue the obvious with you because its obvious, somehow you tend to always miss the obvious. Your troll tactics win yet another thread!!

Of course I considered it.

I was merely complementing him for making an actual, credible argument that might have a chance of making someone with the authority to make such a decision give pause (like NDSU's president).

Everything prior to that had been more or less just whining and complaining.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Exactly.

So then you must agree that the following two scenarios are the same:

10,000 of 14,000 being unable to obtain a student ticket to a home football game does not entitle those 10k students to opt out of paying the student activity fee.

12,000 of 14,000 being unable to obtain a student ticket to a home football game does not entitle those 12k students to opt out of paying the student activity fee.

This would make sense if the student activity fee were directly related to, and consumed by, the football program. It covers all athletics, including those non-revenue sports like baseball and volleyball. It also goes to pay for the Recreation and Outing center.

Because I am not you, I will not treat your posts with derision and dismissal but simply say that you are taking a very myopic view of this to create a tempest in a teapot.

[MplsBison]

the student section should be large enough to accommodate the minimum demand for student tickets.

So each home game week you would advocate for giving the students until, say Wed night to decide if they're going to attend the game that week. Then the student section could be scaled down from 14k to whoever RSVP'ed?

[MplsBison]

Very rarely could NDSU get 6,000 students to show up.

4K is about the right number. I'd be ok with 3500 though too. Any less.....I'd be disappointed.

OK, gotta start somewhere. Baby steps, I suppose - 3500 it is. There will be 500 additional season tickets made available for this fall and 500 fewer student tickets issued per game.


No one else disagrees with this plan, right?

[MplsBison]

As someone already said, not all students want to go to the games. 4K is the number that was agreed to by both the athletic department and student government.

If you are so up in arms about the number, why don't you call GT and the student body president at NDSU to voice your concerns. I'm sure that would be more than happy to hear from you.

4k was a number agreed to in a different time, a different division and so a completely different context.


How about this deal, then: you can keep 4k in the Fargodome as long as it is the stadium for NDSU football. But when a new, large stadium (say 25k) is constructed - you have to remain married to that 4k number.

So it's either 4k now and forever, or you agree to scale the student section as appropriate on a periodic basis.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

OK, gotta start somewhere. Baby steps, I suppose - 3500 it is. There will be 500 additional season tickets made available for this fall and 500 fewer student tickets issued per game.


No one else disagrees with this plan, right?

If it's your plan, how could anyone disagree?

Reducing the number of student tickets available for the highest demand sport would be a PR nightmare. This is a University after all and the students are the point. The easiest solution would be a rush ticket policy allowing walk up sales for those tickets not claimed. That way you always have 4k available but can sell additional tickets to very motivated fans who want to stand in line and wait for a last minute available ticket.

[MplsBison]

This would make sense if the student activity fee were directly related to, and consumed by, the football program. It covers all athletics, including those non-revenue sports like baseball and volleyball. It also goes to pay for the Recreation and Outing center.

Because I am not you, I will not treat your posts with derision and dismissal but simply say that you are taking a very myopic view of this to create a tempest in a teapot.

So your argument is that because the total activity fee also covers the costs of women's soccer....the student section in football should remain at more than 20% of the actual seats of the Fargodome?

At the least, you could give students SRO tickets and let people pay for the actual seats. Students like to stand the whole game anyway, am I right? Guessing that would be voted down too...

As to your last statement:

Sure. But then again....it's just an internet message board. It's only fun if there's something interesting to talk about. It's not like my personal credible in real life is on the line. It shouldn't matter if you say something unpopular online. We should all be anonymous.

Does this thread get to 140 posts without me stirring the pot? No. Yet here I am, provoking everyones thoughts when they may have not given them otherwise.

[MplsBison]

If it's your plan, how could anyone disagree?

Reducing the number of student tickets available for the highest demand sport would be a PR nightmare. This is a University after all and the students are the point. The easiest solution would be a rush ticket policy allowing walk up sales for those tickets not claimed. That way you always have 4k available but can sell additional tickets to very motivated fans who want to stand in line and wait for a last minute available ticket.

What if the student section had always been 3k?

Would you be bouncing off the wall trying to get it boosted up to 4k now? Or put another way, why aren't you advocating for 5k student section now?

[Southern Bison]

If it's your plan, how could anyone disagree?

This is a University after all and the students are the point.

ND4E, basically what Mpls is saying is that he got to enjoy Bison football as a student for "free" and didn't give a rat's ass about season tickets. Now that he's older and no longer eligible to get a student ticket, screw the students and make as much money as possible.

[MplsBison]

Let me just summarize everything I've seen to this point:

- the only argument anyone is making goes like this: the student section has always been 4k, going back to the days when NDSU was barely drawing five figures in an 18700 seat Fargodome for DII games THEREFORE, it should remain at 4k with NDSU playing DI football, going for three national championships in a row, tickets selling out in record time for the entire season and the Fargodome still only seats 18700 and can't be expanded.

- no one has even attempted to justify 4k as a magic number. Why not 4.5k? Why not 5k? Nope, 4k.


That's about it. That's what I'm seeing.

[MplsBison]

ND4E, basically what Mpls is saying is that he got to enjoy Bison football as a student for "free" and didn't give a rat's ass about season tickets. Now that he's older and no longer eligible to get a student ticket, screw the students and make as much money as possible.

That's a little crude, but at the most basic sense your argument is essentially correct: times have changed.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So your argument is that because the total activity fee also covers the costs of women's soccer....the student section in football should remain at more than 20% of the actual seats of the Fargodome?

At the least, you could give students SRO tickets and let people pay for the actual seats. Students like to stand the whole game anyway, am I right? Guessing that would be voted down too...

As to your last statement:

Sure. But then again....it's just an internet message board. It's only fun if there's something interesting to talk about. It's not like my personal credible in real life is on the line. It shouldn't matter if you say something unpopular online. We should all be anonymous.

Does this thread get to 140 posts without me stirring the pot? No. Yet here I am, provoking everyones thoughts when they may have not given them otherwise.




Therefore, you argument is nullified in my opinion.

No. You just don't have a response.


I'd be happy to entertain an intelligent discussion about it. I guess you wouldn't qualify.

Their disgruntled disposition could be sensed remotely as they descended upon the IACC labs to groupflame.

Otherwise, you invalidated your own argument.

Perhaps if you had said a real word, like 'chagrin' for example, then I'd be more sure.

Everything prior to that had been more or less just whining and complaining.

Nope, you're just a dick, and because you're a dick you turn EVERYTHING into a really ****ty argument.

I'm wondering if this all stems from your bitching about not getting a ticket to the NC game in 2011. Try a little harder and you can get a ticket to almost any god damn game you want.

I live 8 hrs from Fargo, have not purchased any tickets to any home games but I know if I ever wanted to go to one, I have actual friends who can get me a seat. I do not need to steal one from the student section.

Living 17 hrs from Fargo, I attended 8 Bison games in the last 2 years. You just gotta try a little.

[No_Skill]

Exactly.

So then you must agree that the following two scenarios are the same:

10,000 of 14,000 being unable to obtain a student ticket to a home football game does not entitle those 10k students to opt out of paying the student activity fee.

12,000 of 14,000 being unable to obtain a student ticket to a home football game does not entitle those 12k students to opt out of paying the student activity fee.

Yes, I agree in regards to opting out, but I also believe that the allocation of student seats needs to meet a certain demand.

Maybe it can be made to roughly match the demand for season tickets. Say we have 12,000 season tickets sold 1,200 on the waiting list. That 10 to 1 ratio could be used as a guideline for the proper size of the student section. If only 3,000 students are showing up then the student section should be roughly 2,700.

I don't have the exact attendance numbers for the student section over the last few years, but it has been reasonably full for most games and I feel it has fairly closely matched the attendance percentage of the paying customers. My ideal situation would see a full 4,000 seat student section each game with 400 students being denied.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

That's a little crude, but at the most basic sense your argument is essentially correct: times have changed.


Join TMers and start giving money to increase your priority points.

I've had season tickets for 11 years in section 20 and have tried to get season tickets on the 50 yd line and have failed every year. No way in he** am I giving these up.....I'll never get good seats again.

Snooze you loose mpls.

[MplsBison]

I don't care if I'm unpopular on AGS. I'm popular in real life. Believe me, getting NDSU tickets is not something I worry about if I want to attend a particular game (such as the 2011 NC game).

I'll say the unpopular thing or make the unpopular argument on here because....it's just a message board. I want discussion. I want to get people talking.

I don't care about being polite as if it were a real life discussion. It's not. That's the point.

/rant

[MplsBison]

Yes, I agree in regards to opting out, but I also believe that the allocation of student seats needs to meet a certain demand.

Maybe it can be made to roughly match the demand for season tickets. Say we have 12,000 season tickets sold 1,200 on the waiting list. That 10 to 1 ratio could be used as a guideline for the proper size of the student section. If only 3,000 students are showing up then the student section should be roughly 2,700.

I don't have the exact attendance numbers for the student section over the last few years, but it has been reasonably full for most games and I feel it has fairly closely matched the attendance percentage of the paying customers. My ideal situation would see a full 4,000 seat student section each game with 400 students being denied.

Shouldn't other factors also be considered?

Such as:

- number of total seats in the stadium
- percentage being taken as student seats
- demand for tickets
- size of the student body


What you just said seems to be that as long as 4k students are showing up, then 4k must be a good size for the student section.

Doesn't that mean that if 8k students would show up to each home game, then we should increase the student section to 8k?


There are 18700 actual seats in the Fargodome. More than 20% of those are being given to students right now.


What if the Dome only had 13k seats and NDSU's student body was 25k? What if the dome had 25k seats and NDSU's student body was 10k?


Do you see what I'm getting at here? I'm not mad at 4k in itself....I'm mad that the only argument people seem to be making is that it should remain 4k in spite of all other factors....simply because it's been 4k.

That's brainless.


I **HATE** continuation policy. It's one of the worst things humans do. Policy should always be living, always be scaled to the current reality. Times change!

[No_Skill]

Shouldn't other factors also be considered?

Such as:

- number of total seats in the stadium
- percentage being taken as student seats
- demand for tickets
- size of the student body


What you just said seems to be that as long as 4k students are showing up, then 4k must be a good size for the student section.

Doesn't that mean that if 8k students would show up to each home game, then we should increase the student section to 8k?


There are 18700 actual seats in the Fargodome. More than 20% of those are being given to students right now.


What if the Dome only had 13k seats and NDSU's student body was 25k? What if the dome had 25k seats and NDSU's student body was 10k?


Do you see what I'm getting at here? I'm not mad at 4k in itself....I'm mad that the only argument people seem to be making is that it should remain 4k in spite of all other factors....simply because it's been 4k.

That's brainless.


I **HATE** continuation policy. It's one of the worst things humans do. Policy should always be living, always be scaled to the current reality. Times change!

A system could get as complicated as you like. Any number of variables could be used, I simply went with waiting list ratio to simplify the example and show a system could be developed.

Regarding your 8k student statement...no the student section would not be 8k. Assuming demand for season tickets stays the same 4000 seats would need to be taken from season ticket holders to make up the difference. So you'd have 8k students wanting 8k seats and 13,200 potential season ticket holders wanting 8,000 season tickets.

The ratio is not equal.

Edit: I should add that I am definitely not an advocate of booting out season ticket holders. You simply can't do that. The variable seating model would need to vary the single game reserved tickets. In fact, altering any of these numbers would not be an easy thing to do and should not be done hastily. Maybe a 5 year rolling average could be used to even out the peaks and valleys.

[Southern Bison]

If NDSU is smart and looking long-range, they won't mess with the # of student seats, they'll look towards the future of a new stadium (after the SHAC is completed). The students that they would kneecap by diminishing the number of seats available are the future Team Makers and donors towards the football program.

The FD has shown to be a great success in the city and creating a larger version has the ability to be a big win for Fargo again. IMO, I'd like to see NDSU set a goal for a 35k-seat indoor stadium that is a smaller version of Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis. Their stadium has a good look that will fit within the architectural style of the NDSU campus and $$ would dictate whether they try and have a retractable roof. Keeping it indoors provides a great home-field noise advantage for the Bison that most other FCS schools won't experience. This could also set up the ability to host a NCAA Tournament (Opening/2nd round) and bring in bigger concerts and other events. With all the talk of the Power 5 conferences breaking off, this goal does set us up for an eventual move to FBS itself or the convergence of top FCS programs with the MAC/MWC/SBC/C-USA/AAC

One of the bigger questions that I have is where would they put it? Could they squeeze it in between the FD and University Dr and then turn the existing FD into parking? They may have issues if they try to go west of the dome or 18th St. N. because of the airport and flight paths. Would they be able to purchase a few blocks of homes on the other side of University Dr. between 15th Ave. & 17th Ave.?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

If NDSU is smart and looking long-range, they won't mess with the # of student seats, they'll look towards the future of a new stadium (after the SHAC is completed). The students that they would kneecap by diminishing the number of seats available are the future Team Makers and donors towards the football program.

The FD has shown to be a great success in the city and creating a larger version has the ability to be a big win for Fargo again. IMO, I'd like to see NDSU set a goal for a 35k-seat indoor stadium that is a smaller version of Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis. Their stadium has a good look that will fit within the architectural style of the NDSU campus and $$ would dictate whether they try and have a retractable roof. Keeping it indoors provides a great home-field noise advantage for the Bison that most other FCS schools won't experience. This could also set up the ability to host a NCAA Tournament (Opening/2nd round) and bring in bigger concerts and other events. With all the talk of the Power 5 conferences breaking off, this goal does set us up for an eventual move to FBS itself or the convergence of top FCS programs with the MAC/MWC/SBC/C-USA/AAC

One of the bigger questions that I have is where would they put it? Could they squeeze it in between the FD and University Dr and then turn the existing FD into parking? They may have issues if they try to go west of the dome or 18th St. N. because of the airport and flight paths. Would they be able to purchase a few blocks of homes on the other side of University Dr. between 15th Ave. & 17th Ave.?

Since the dome was so expensive and owned by the city of Fargo, they would likely have to do it on their own dime. The dome was always supposed to be a municipal arena and the city would likely not want to part with it for a parking lot.

A new stadium would also not likely be indoors, at least not while being the slightest bit cost effective. You are looking at an investment north of $120 million, especially looking at the capacity that has been mentioned.

By comparison the entire SHAC development was $32 million. Unlikely that you will see a number that is 4x that being able to be raised, especially as it has been like pulling teeth to finish the SHAC.

[IBleedYellow]

If enough of NDSU fans state that we don't claim MLPS can we rid of his asshole personality forever? He is a horrible ambassador for NDSU academics, athletics and the overall opinion of Fargo, ND.

Galaxy S4

[NoDak 4 Ever]

If enough of NDSU fans state that we don't claim MLPS can we rid of his asshole personality forever? He is a horrible ambassador for NDSU academics, athletics and the overall opinion of Fargo, ND.

Galaxy S4

Being an idiot doesn't violate TOS. You need to be a particularly stupid kind like Lakes or JBB to get that done and they really **** the bed.

[IBleedYellow]

Being an idiot doesn't violate TOS. You need to be a particularly stupid kind like Lakes or JBB to get that done and they really **** the bed.

Sigh, I know you are right, it's just frustrating.

Galaxy S4

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Sigh, I know you are right, it's just frustrating.

Galaxy S4

If he's just wrong, it's easy to answer him. If he's being a dick just for the sake of it. Time for the annoying orange.

[Southern Bison]

Since the dome was so expensive and owned by the city of Fargo, they would likely have to do it on their own dime. The dome was always supposed to be a municipal arena and the city would likely not want to part with it for a parking lot.

A new stadium would also not likely be indoors, at least not while being the slightest bit cost effective. You are looking at an investment north of $120 million, especially looking at the capacity that has been mentioned.

By comparison the entire SHAC development was $32 million. Unlikely that you will see a number that is 4x that being able to be raised, especially as it has been like pulling teeth to finish the SHAC.

You and I don't disagree...(wipe off your screen xlolx) but with a joint venture between the city and NDSU, a bigger & better municipal arena can be done. I don't recall how long the SHAC fundraising has been going on, but I don't see NDSU looking at groundbreaking for a new stadium for at least a decade or longer. A long-term fundraising campaign and the interest that the money is generating over those 10 years could reach that $120mm that you mentioned.

Example: $10,000,000 initial deposit with $750,000 deposited each month over 10 years at a rate of 6% compounding will generate a combined $136.5 million with $36.5mm generated just in interest.

There are currently 12K+ season ticket holders and another 1500 on the waiting list, right? With the prospect of a new stadium that would have 20K+ season tickets, the Bison have the capability to sell Permanent Seat Licenses to anyone wanting season tickets in the new stadium. Jerry Richardson was one of the 1st to do that to build the stadium for the Panthers here in Charlotte and many other pro facilities built since the mid-'90s have followed suit and it has been very successful. Bison football is the marquis event in the Red River Valley and you will see season tickets surpass 20K with a new stadium IMO. At $2,000 for a PSL, that could generate $40mm alone in money for a new stadium. I could also see Scheels, Sanford, Ingersoll-Rand, Gate City Bank, and other companies donating mid 7-figures each for the new stadium and then you're already halfway there without any growth in the portfolio or public money. NDSU's National Titles and consistent excellence are great publicity for the entire state and continuing that tradition would be beneficial for the Legislature to chip in.

[tourguide]

I don't care if I'm unpopular on AGS. I'm popular in real life. Believe me, getting NDSU tickets is not something I worry about if I want to attend a particular 9game (such as the 2011 NC game).

I'll say the unpopular thing or make the unpopular argument on here because....it's just a message board. I want discussion. I want to get people talking.

I don't care about being polite as if it were a real life discussion. It's not. That's the point.

/rant

So then why isn't you point to reshuffle season ticket holders every year? thrown away all tm points and bid on seats. who cares how long you have supported NDSU, how much are you willing to pay right now. if some fan wants to buyout the whole stadium and bus in uni fans i assume you would support it right? all about making a little more money

[Twentysix]

You and I don't disagree...(wipe off your screen xlolx) but with a joint venture between the city and NDSU, a bigger & better municipal arena can be done. I don't recall how long the SHAC fundraising has been going on, but I don't see NDSU looking at groundbreaking for a new stadium for at least a decade or longer. A long-term fundraising campaign and the interest that the money is generating over those 10 years could reach that $120mm that you mentioned.

Example: $10,000,000 initial deposit with $750,000 deposited each month over 10 years at a rate of 6% compounding will generate a combined $136.5 million with $36.5mm generated just in interest.

There are currently 12K+ season ticket holders and another 1500 on the waiting list, right? With the prospect of a new stadium that would have 20K+ season tickets, the Bison have the capability to sell Permanent Seat Licenses to anyone wanting season tickets in the new stadium. Jerry Richardson was one of the 1st to do that to build the stadium for the Panthers here in Charlotte and many other pro facilities built since the mid-'90s have followed suit and it has been very successful. Bison football is the marquis event in the Red River Valley and you will see season tickets surpass 20K with a new stadium IMO. At $2,000 for a PSL, that could generate $40mm alone in money for a new stadium. I could also see Scheels, Sanford, Ingersoll-Rand, Gate City Bank, and other companies donating mid 7-figures each for the new stadium and then you're already halfway there without any growth in the portfolio or public money. NDSU's National Titles and consistent excellence are great publicity for the entire state and continuing that tradition would be beneficial for the Legislature to chip in.

The only thing we all know for sure, is that if a new stadium isn't being planned (and subsequent funding models), it isn't going to ever happen.

An outdoor football stadium also has zero appeal as an expo type building or a concert venue, especially in fall winter and spring months. Indoors also provides NDSU with an interesting noise generation that magnifies home field advantage (which visiting Socon fan's could probably attest to).

[FargoBison]

The city of Fargo already has a 25k seat concert venue that doubles as a huge expo space...the city has zero need for a bigger venue. Plus the city is going to be spending huge amounts in infrastructure over the next few decades thanks to the diversion. Any increase in sales tax will face major opposition.

A new stadium will be outdoors and it will have to be an NDSU and state of ND venture. An outdoor stadium also doesn't need to be overbuilt since expansion will be exponentially cheaper than trying to make an indoor stadium bigger.

[Vitojr130]

The city of Fargo already has a 25k seat concert venue that doubles as a huge expo space...the city has zero need for a bigger venue. Plus the city is going to be spending huge amounts in infrastructure over the next few decades thanks to the diversion. Any increase in sales tax will face major opposition.

A new stadium will be outdoors and it will have to be an NDSU and state of ND venture. An outdoor stadium also doesn't need to be overbuilt since expansion will be exponentially cheaper than trying to make an indoor stadium bigger.

If you are referring to using the Fargodome as a concert venue, I don't think it can hold 25,000 for concerts. They pull the moveable endzone seating so far up that I doubt they could fit an additional 6000 people on the floor while losing seats on the sidelines. I think that number is grossly exaggerated.

However, the Fargodome has profited so much for the city of Fargo and NDSU that it would be stupid if the city council gives an outright "no" to this idea of a new stadium. The money would be there. Heck, just the FM market area serves 250,000 people. NDSU would have no problem filling a 30-35,000 seat stadium if the Bison keep winning. The city would be losing a lot of money if NDSU were to pull it's football games into a stadium purely owned by NDSU. It would be a joint venture between the two because the city has too much to lose if they don't get involved.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The city of Fargo already has a 25k seat concert venue that doubles as a huge expo space...the city has zero need for a bigger venue. Plus the city is going to be spending huge amounts in infrastructure over the next few decades thanks to the diversion. Any increase in sales tax will face major opposition.

A new stadium will be outdoors and it will have to be an NDSU and state of ND venture. An outdoor stadium also doesn't need to be overbuilt since expansion will be exponentially cheaper than trying to make an indoor stadium bigger.

Pretty much. That was a crazy sell job to get the Fargodome in the first place. You will never get the city to sign on for another, bigger arena when the FD is doing just fine for them.

[Bisonoline]

So your argument is that because the total activity fee also covers the costs of women's soccer....the student section in football should remain at more than 20% of the actual seats of the Fargodome?

At the least, you could give students SRO tickets and let people pay for the actual seats. Students like to stand the whole game anyway, am I right? Guessing that would be voted down too...

As to your last statement:

Sure. But then again....it's just an internet message board. It's only fun if there's something interesting to talk about. It's not like my personal credible in real life is on the line. It shouldn't matter if you say something unpopular online. We should all be anonymous.

Does this thread get to 140 posts without me stirring the pot? No. Yet here I am, provoking everyones thoughts when they may have not given them otherwise.

OMG I knew it was just a matter of time before you pulled that self serving statement out of your azz. Surpised it took you this long.

[Bisonwinagn]

Holy **** this turned into a stupid thread!!!!! Glad I only read the first 3 pages.

[Bisonoline]

I don't care if I'm unpopular on AGS. I'm popular in real life. Believe me, getting NDSU tickets is not something I worry about if I want to attend a particular game (such as the 2011 NC game).

I'll say the unpopular thing or make the unpopular argument on here because....it's just a message board. I want discussion. I want to get people talking.

I don't care about being polite as if it were a real life discussion. It's not. That's the point.

/rant

You THINK you are popular in real life. In reality you are a dick just like you are here.

Persons diagnosed with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder are characterized by unwarranted feelings of self-importance. They have a sense of entitlement and demonstrate grandiosity in their beliefs and behavior. They have a strong need for admiration, but lack feelings of empathy for others. These qualities are usually defenses against a deep feeling of inferiority and of being unloved.[6]
Symptoms

Symptoms of this disorder, as defined by the DSM-IV-TR include:[1]


Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
Envies others and believes others envy him/her
Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior
Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic

Per the Mayo Clinic, narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by dramatic, emotional behavior, which is in the same category as antisocial and borderline personality disorders.[7]

Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:

Believing that you're better than others
Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
Exaggerating your achievements or talents
Expecting constant praise and admiration
Believing that you're special and acting accordingly
Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
Taking advantage of others
Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
Being jealous of others
Believing that others are jealous of you
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Setting unrealistic goals
Being easily hurt and rejected
Having a fragile self-esteem
Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional

Seek professional help. You need it.

[FargoBison]

If you are referring to using the Fargodome as a concert venue, I don't think it can hold 25,000 for concerts. They pull the moveable endzone seating so far up that I doubt they could fit an additional 6000 people on the floor while losing seats on the sidelines. I think that number is grossly exaggerated.

However, the Fargodome has profited so much for the city of Fargo and NDSU that it would be stupid if the city council gives an outright "no" to this idea of a new stadium. The money would be there. Heck, just the FM market area serves 250,000 people. NDSU would have no problem filling a 30-35,000 seat stadium if the Bison keep winning. The city would be losing a lot of money if NDSU were to pull it's football games into a stadium purely owned by NDSU. It would be a joint venture between the two because the city has too much to lose if they don't get involved.

Bon Jovi and Garth Brooks have both had concerts with 25k or more in the dome. The bleachers don't move for major concerts.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2348/2435440694_ac1ef1187e.jpg

A 30-40k seat facility serves zero use for the city of Fargo, it would be completely overbuilt for the city's needs. When the dome was built it filled a need for a the city and NDSU, a new stadium fills NDSU's needs but does basically nothing for the city of Fargo. Besides the NCAA basketball tournament I'm not sure what events they could attract that they can't attract right now. Plus a facility being that large would lose some versatility that the dome has now.

It is time for NDSU to start thinking about moving outdoors because that is the only way a new stadium could become a reality.

[Bisonoline]

If you are referring to using the Fargodome as a concert venue, I don't think it can hold 25,000 for concerts. They pull the moveable endzone seating so far up that I doubt they could fit an additional 6000 people on the floor while losing seats on the sidelines. I think that number is grossly exaggerated.

However, the Fargodome has profited so much for the city of Fargo and NDSU that it would be stupid if the city council gives an outright "no" to this idea of a new stadium. The money would be there. Heck, just the FM market area serves 250,000 people. NDSU would have no problem filling a 30-35,000 seat stadium if the Bison keep winning. The city would be losing a lot of money if NDSU were to pull it's football games into a stadium purely owned by NDSU. It would be a joint venture between the two because the city has too much to lose if they don't get involved.

According to the Fargodome they can hold 25,000 for concerts and 19,000 for football.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Bon Jovi and Garth Brooks have both had concerts with 25k or more in the dome. The bleachers don't move for major concerts.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2348/2435440694_ac1ef1187e.jpg

A 30-40k seat facility serves zero use for the city of Fargo, it would be completely overbuilt for the city's needs. When the dome was built it filled a need for a the city and NDSU, a new stadium fills NDSU's needs but does basically nothing for the city of Fargo.

It is time for NDSU to start thinking about moving outdoors because that is the only a new stadium could become a reality.

Yep, no way the cranks in Fargo would go for that.

[gumby013]

A standalone convention center would be an easier sell. The dome, or any football stadium, is quite small by convention center standards.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The question was never if students fees are paying (and then some) for the market value of what those 4k seats could be sold for as season tickets.


There would be no reduction in student fees to coincide with a reduction in the student section.
Yes, it was the question because I asked it. It may not have been your question.

[Drblankstare]

If the Fargodome could hold 30k right now for Bison games, they would sellout I'm sure. The question is, when the wave finally breaks and the Bison have a down year or 2. Would the crowds still be that big? Is NDSU football to the magical place that their record no longer matters and the crowds would show up no matter what. I think the dome fits the need very well for now and into the future

[Bisonoline]

If the Fargodome could hold 30k right now for Bison games, they would sellout I'm sure. The question is, when the wave finally breaks and the Bison have a down year or 2. Would the crowds still be that big? Is NDSU football to the magical place that their record no longer matters and the crowds would show up no matter what. I think the dome fits the need very well for now and into the future

There arent 11,000 on the waiting list. You would pickup 2-3,000 at most. The trick is to create demand for your product and create a market for tickets. You dont do that by over building. Within the last 3 years they started to build a fan base. Within that time tailgating has become an event. But you wont know how solid your fan base is until youve had to weather a few down years.

[Twentysix]

There arent 11,000 on the waiting list. You would pickup 2-3,000 at most. The trick is to create demand for your product and create a market for tickets. You dont do that by over building. Within the last 3 years they started to build a fan base. Within that time tailgating has become an event. But you wont know how solid your fan base is until youve had to weather a few down years.

There are many missed sales that have no interested in being season ticket holders. I don't know about 11,000 a game, but its more than 2,000 seats. There was quite literally a 5 second window to buy at least 2 seats together for non-season ticket holders to a few of the games this year. If you hadn't selected your seats by 8:00:05 you were getting no more than a single seat.

[Bisonoline]

There are many missed sales that have no interested in being season ticket holders. I don't know about 11,000 a game, but its more than 2,000 seats. There was quite literally a 5 second window to buy at least 2 seats together for non-season ticket holders to a few of the games this year. If you hadn't selected your seats by 8:00:05 you were getting no more than a single seat.

Hmmmm its called demand. Up until a few years ago you had no problem getting tickets anytime you wanted. People are more in tuned now because single game tickets are fewer and at a premium. The powers that be know what is being left on the table and its not as much as people would think. If it was a large number where there would be a sizable ROI they would find a way to add some seating.

[MplsBison]

A system could get as complicated as you like. Any number of variables could be used, I simply went with waiting list ratio to simplify the example and show a system could be developed.

Regarding your 8k student statement...no the student section would not be 8k. Assuming demand for season tickets stays the same 4000 seats would need to be taken from season ticket holders to make up the difference. So you'd have 8k students wanting 8k seats and 13,200 potential season ticket holders wanting 8,000 season tickets.

The ratio is not equal.

Edit: I should add that I am definitely not an advocate of booting out season ticket holders. You simply can't do that. The variable seating model would need to vary the single game reserved tickets. In fact, altering any of these numbers would not be an easy thing to do and should not be done hastily. Maybe a 5 year rolling average could be used to even out the peaks and valleys.

But at least you are advocating for the three numbers (season tickets, single game tickets, student tickets) to be dynamic.

Like so many of the typical old, white, North Dakotan males who vote against any change to anything -- AGS NDSU fans won't accept changes to those numbers either.


Now, you said that the ratio of season ticket holders to waiting list ratio should be a factor and that you'd ideally like to see the same ratio maintained for the student section. The example you gave went like this: 12000 season tickets with 1200 on the waiting list => you'd like to see 4000 student seats with 400 students on a 'student waiting list' if there were such a thing.

The problem with your concept is that the two base numbers are not equally derived from market demand principles. Consider that those 13200 people who would've bought season tickets actually put their name (and money?) down on a list with the hope that their number would be called. On the other hand, there were not 4400 students who put their name down on a list. As far as I know, it's simply 'first come, first serve' to the first 4000 students that show up.


Therefore, my point again: what if 8000 students showed up? Your ratio now jumped from 10:1 to 1:1. Thus, in such a dynamical system you'd need to increase the student section to 7273 (leaving 727 on a waiting list) to maintain the 10:1 ratio that season ticket holders see.

Obviously that can't happen. So each of the three sections has to have a boundary condition on the configuration range with each of the three getting a certain weighting.


In my opinion, the weighting on the student section should be the least significant. Point being: students don't pay anything on top of what they have to pay in fees regardless. Decreasing the student section won't decrease the fees that students will pay.

[MplsBison]

Hmmmm its called demand. Up until a few years ago you had no problem getting tickets anytime you wanted. People are more in tuned now because single game tickets are fewer and at a premium. The powers that be know what is being left on the table and its not as much as people would think. If it was a large number where there would be a sizable ROI they would find a way to add some seating.

SRO tickets are all they can do. There is no way to add seating without a huge upfront cost. At that point you might as well build a new stadium.

[MplsBison]

Since the dome was so expensive and owned by the city of Fargo, they would likely have to do it on their own dime. The dome was always supposed to be a municipal arena and the city would likely not want to part with it for a parking lot.

A new stadium would also not likely be indoors, at least not while being the slightest bit cost effective. You are looking at an investment north of $120 million, especially looking at the capacity that has been mentioned.

By comparison the entire SHAC development was $32 million. Unlikely that you will see a number that is 4x that being able to be raised, especially as it has been like pulling teeth to finish the SHAC.

On the other hand, if you take a look at new NFL stadiums they seem to be exclusively indoor stadiums for the simple fact that more events (and hence more $$$) can be hosted in the venue. And if the government is paying for a significant portion of it, then it almost has to be indoors so as to be sold as "people's stadium". You can't get people to sign off on a three quarter to one billion dollar stadium for 8 football games a year.

If the state of ND or city of Fargo are ever going to help build a new stadium, it will be indoors.

That said, the Fargo is built now. It serves pretty much all functions reasonably well. So unless NDSU builds a new football stadium with all private donations, there isn't going to be a new stadium any time in the next 25 years.

[MplsBison]

SRO tickets are all they can do. There is no way to add seating without a huge upfront cost. At that point you might as well build a new stadium.

I take that back.

One thing you could look at doing is simply getting rid of the seatbacks and replacing them with bench seating. You may be able to increasing seating by 10% with that method? Then you can also keep a section of seats (say 1000?) as a "club seating" premium option, complete with an actual club to belong to. Call it the "TeamMakers Club" or something along those lines.

[MplsBison]

If enough of NDSU fans state that we don't claim MLPS can we rid of his asshole personality forever? He is a horrible ambassador for NDSU academics, athletics and the overall opinion of Fargo, ND.

Galaxy S4

Heh. Fancy that, an undergrad student (ie, doesn't even have a bachelor's degree yet) wants to say something about NDSU academics.

Well at least you have an S4. Do you drive an Audi too? Daddy must make good money for ND.

[MplsBison]

So then why isn't you point to reshuffle season ticket holders every year? thrown away all tm points and bid on seats. who cares how long you have supported NDSU, how much are you willing to pay right now. if some fan wants to buyout the whole stadium and bus in uni fans i assume you would support it right? all about making a little more money

Sure.

But the topic was student seating. Let's stay on topic.

[MplsBison]

The city of Fargo already has a 25k seat concert venue that doubles as a huge expo space...the city has zero need for a bigger venue. Plus the city is going to be spending huge amounts in infrastructure over the next few decades thanks to the diversion. Any increase in sales tax will face major opposition.

A new stadium will be outdoors and it will have to be an NDSU and state of ND venture. An outdoor stadium also doesn't need to be overbuilt since expansion will be exponentially cheaper than trying to make an indoor stadium bigger.

Only way you get state of ND to sign on is if you build a new outdoor stadium that both NDSU and UND could use for home football games.

[MplsBison]

OK, here you have it folks. My proposal for fixing this problem as well as it can be fixed in the next 25 years (ie, without a new football specific, outdoor stadium):

- Replace all but 1000 seatbacks with bench seating.
- Goal: increasing seating from 18.7k to 21.7k. (I have no idea if this is reasonable, possible, etc. people just gotta scrunch)
- Students get to keep 4k student ticekts (so that shuts them up)
- Season tickets go from whatever it is to 15k
- Single game tickets go to 2.7k (plus SRO = 3k total)

No one can complain about losing their seatback because if you really want one you can buy it in the club seating area. The new 1k seating club will be called the "TeamMakers Club" and will feature an actual club complete with bar, food, lounge, etc. like all major DI stadiums have.


That's as good as you're going to get sans a major, major private donation for a new football specific, outdoor stadium.

[DJKyR0]

Here's what we do:

1. Eliminate all seats. Everyone must stand the entire time. If you don't like it, coming to the game is optional so any complaints are automatically invalid because I say so.
2. We have now increased seating to 30,000 (aka FBS-worthy).
3. If students complain, police fire mustard gas into the student section during the first half. The ones that stay to watch the game are the ones who actually care anyway.
4. There is no four.

[Gil Dobie]

Vikings are building a new stadium, so move the metrodome to Fargo, somewhere on the back 40 at NDSU.

[MplsBison]

Here's what we do:

1. Eliminate all seats. Everyone must stand the entire time. If you don't like it, coming to the game is optional so any complaints are automatically invalid because I say so.
2. We have now increased seating to 30,000 (aka FBS-worthy).
3. If students complain, police fire mustard gas into the student section during the first half. The ones that stay to watch the game are the ones who actually care anyway.
4. There is no four.

A) this was hilarious and B) I get that you were making fun of me and this was tongue-in-cheek.

Nonetheless, my proposal actually was serious, is actually doable for probably less than $1million (including the club/lounge) and in all seriousness is the only thing that can be done without major cost to increase seating in the Fargodome.

[Southern Bison]

Let's stay on topic.

You're ****ing kidding me, right? xlmaox

Anyways, back to reality...I do see NDSU beginning a drive within a few years after the SHAC is completed and that will be probably the largest fund-raising drive in the history of the school. Like I said before, I don't see shovels in the ground for at least 10-15 years and by then, we'll have surpassed App's 3, YSU's 4, & GaSo's 6 titles and cemented our place in football history. Fargo and the region is going to continue to grow & the demand for a larger indoor venue will rise from the citizens of Fargo & the Bison faithful.

[FargoBison]

On the other hand, if you take a look at new NFL stadiums they seem to be exclusively indoor stadiums for the simple fact that more events (and hence more $$$) can be hosted in the venue. And if the government is paying for a significant portion of it, then it almost has to be indoors so as to be sold as "people's stadium". You can't get people to sign off on a three quarter to one billion dollar stadium for 8 football games a year.

If the state of ND or city of Fargo are ever going to help build a new stadium, it will be indoors.

That said, the Fargo is built now. It serves pretty much all functions reasonably well. So unless NDSU builds a new football stadium with all private donations, there isn't going to be a new stadium any time in the next 25 years.

Pretty sure state's provide universities with resources to build outdoor stadiums all the time. One doesn't have to look any further than the state of MN and TCF Bank Stadium.

Now getting the state of ND to do that won't be easy. But I can tell you right now there would be zero support for building a massive indoor stadium for the city of Fargo and that is how such a facility would be viewed. An outdoor stadium, even though it wouldn't be as useful would be looked at as more of an NDSU facility and would thus be easier to cobble support together for.

[Bisonoline]

SRO tickets are all they can do. There is no way to add seating without a huge upfront cost. At that point you might as well build a new stadium.

You can add seating in the corners. The only problem is fire code violations with having too many people.. You could then cut down on the seating in the corners but the ROI wouldnt be worth it.

[frozennorth]

So each home game week you would advocate for giving the students until, say Wed night to decide if they're going to attend the game that week. Then the student section could be scaled down from 14k to whoever RSVP'ed?

I have no idea how you got this out of my post. Thats like the exact opposite of what I meant.

[Bisonator]

I have no idea how you got this out of my post. Thats like the exact opposite of what I meant.

That's why he's the master of spin! xrotatehx

[darell1976]

When they broke ground on the Fargodome in 1990 the population of Fargo (just Fargo) was 74,111 and for the FM metro it was 153,296. As of the 2010 census that number has grown to 105,549 for Fargo and 208,777 for the FM Metro. With the increase population maybe the city might be ready for a bigger building. I don't think NDSU itself could build a stadium of their own not without a massive collection as the Fargodome cost (according to wiki $78.5mil in 2013 dollars). Their best bet is have the city of Fargo build a bigger dome maybe 30k for football and 40k for concerts? If they can pack 25k for a concert (with the right band/singer) they can pack almost 40k as people from all over the valley and beyond would go to the dome. Just my 2 cents. Now what to do with the old (now current) Fargodome once the new one is built is up to the city. (Donate it to NDSU, use it as a multi-purpose building for things like a circus, political rallies, etc.)

[Vitojr130]

But at least you are advocating for the three numbers (season tickets, single game tickets, student tickets) to be dynamic.

Like so many of the typical old, white, North Dakotan males who vote against any change to anything -- AGS NDSU fans won't accept changes to those numbers either.



Why are you so adamant on reducing the number of student tickets? Without the students, there is no Bison team to watch. It's not vice versa. If there was only fans and no students, there would be no team. Why would you bite the hand that feeds you? I admit that they probably wouldn't be a D1 team if it wasn't for boosters and such, but without the student body, you wouldn't have a college and therefore there would simply be no team.

The purpose of the school is to produce well-rounded, educated adults. Football is tertiary to the schools mission statement. It helps produce well-rounded students who play in a team environment all while entertaining the other students. At least this is what I like to believe.

[AmsterBison]

Hmmmm its called demand. Up until a few years ago you had no problem getting tickets anytime you wanted. People are more in tuned now because single game tickets are fewer and at a premium. The powers that be know what is being left on the table and its not as much as people would think. If it was a large number where there would be a sizable ROI they would find a way to add some seating.

No doubt. One of the reasons I stopped getting season tickets was that it was too much work giving them away when I could only make one game a year.

That said, the situation has changed since then. Allowing tailgating and reining in the security personnel has done almost as much as winning to make going to games attractive.

It won't hurt to start making noise about a new stadium now to get people thinking about it. It's funny how the unimaginable becomes reality when people think about it long enough.

[MarkyMark]

Pretty sure state's provide universities with resources to build outdoor stadiums all the time. One doesn't have to look any further than the state of MN and TCF Bank Stadium.

Now getting the state of ND to do that won't be easy. But I can tell you right now there would be zero support for building a massive indoor stadium for the city of Fargo and that is how such a facility would be viewed. An outdoor stadium, even though it wouldn't be as useful would be looked at as more of an NDSU facility and would thus be easier to cobble support together for.

The money to build a new facility will have to come from a sales tax. Fargoans are quite used to paying a sales tax to fund different projects. It's a painless way to raise the needed money.

I would like NDSU to think big on this project or at least plan something that can be expanded over time.

[MplsBison]

You're ****ing kidding me, right? xlmaox

Anyways, back to reality...I do see NDSU beginning a drive within a few years after the SHAC is completed and that will be probably the largest fund-raising drive in the history of the school. Like I said before, I don't see shovels in the ground for at least 10-15 years and by then, we'll have surpassed App's 3, YSU's 4, & GaSo's 6 titles and cemented our place in football history. Fargo and the region is going to continue to grow & the demand for a larger indoor venue will rise from the citizens of Fargo & the Bison faithful.

That's fine, but it's going to have to be something like what Akron built. You're not going to get any government money (city, county or state) unless it's an indoor building and you're not going to be able to build something significant and indoors for south of $250M I'd bet.

[MplsBison]

Pretty sure state's provide universities with resources to build outdoor stadiums all the time. One doesn't have to look any further than the state of MN and TCF Bank Stadium.

Now getting the state of ND to do that won't be easy. But I can tell you right now there would be zero support for building a massive indoor stadium for the city of Fargo and that is how such a facility would be viewed. An outdoor stadium, even though it wouldn't be as useful would be looked at as more of an NDSU facility and would thus be easier to cobble support together for.

For the first part of your post, I don't think I quite trust your general statement. The specific example you gave of TCF, I don't believe the state of MN is going to pay for any significant portion of it. More likely, bonds were issued (not sure if that's something allowed for ND universities) that the U of MN will have to pay back.

For the second part of your post, I can tell you right now that a new outdoor stadium for the city of Fargo would lose. A) it's outdoor, so it has limited utility other than football, B) because it would be mainly utilized by NDSU it would lose support within the city from non-NDSU alumni.

I have to believe there are significant UND and other non-NDSU alumni living in Fargo, enough to kill a vote.

[MplsBison]

You can add seating in the corners. The only problem is fire code violations with having too many people.. You could then cut down on the seating in the corners but the ROI wouldnt be worth it.

You could add aluminum, scaffolding style bleachers (high school stadium) in the corners.....BEHIND the giant support pillars.

I guess you call those tickets "obstructed view seating".

[MplsBison]

I have no idea how you got this out of my post. Thats like the exact opposite of what I meant.

Then you're either terrible at expressing what you mean or you didn't take the time to reach the logical conclusion of your assertions.

[MplsBison]

When they broke ground on the Fargodome in 1990 the population of Fargo (just Fargo) was 74,111 and for the FM metro it was 153,296. As of the 2010 census that number has grown to 105,549 for Fargo and 208,777 for the FM Metro. With the increase population maybe the city might be ready for a bigger building. I don't think NDSU itself could build a stadium of their own not without a massive collection as the Fargodome cost (according to wiki $78.5mil in 2013 dollars). Their best bet is have the city of Fargo build a bigger dome maybe 30k for football and 40k for concerts? If they can pack 25k for a concert (with the right band/singer) they can pack almost 40k as people from all over the valley and beyond would go to the dome. Just my 2 cents. Now what to do with the old (now current) Fargodome once the new one is built is up to the city. (Donate it to NDSU, use it as a multi-purpose building for things like a circus, political rallies, etc.)

I realize there is a "if you build it, they will come" factor that goes along with discussion a new venue.

But the easy challenge to your position is to determine how many events hosted by the Fargodome in the last two years could have sold significantly more tickets with additional seating available. Other than NDSU football, what are we talking about here?


The trick is to somehow frame the discussion in some other light than "NDSU Football need a bigger stadium".

[BisonBacker]

My god what is this idiot posting or is he just tlking to himself?


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/bri4878/idiot_zps650aca25.gif

[MplsBison]

Why are you so adamant on reducing the number of student tickets? Without the students, there is no Bison team to watch. It's not vice versa. If there was only fans and no students, there would be no team. Why would you bite the hand that feeds you? I admit that they probably wouldn't be a D1 team if it wasn't for boosters and such, but without the student body, you wouldn't have a college and therefore there would simply be no team.

The purpose of the school is to produce well-rounded, educated adults. Football is tertiary to the schools mission statement. It helps produce well-rounded students who play in a team environment all while entertaining the other students. At least this is what I like to believe.

I tried, but I don't think there's a single statement in there that actually supports having the student section remain at 4k given the other factors. Mainly, your post just seems to be supporting the positions that A) a university should have students and B) a football team is beneficial for a university.


For example, let me just slightly alter your post and aim it back towards yourself. How do you respond to it then?

"Why are you so adamant on preventing the number of student tickets from increasing to 5,000? Without the students, there is no Bison team to watch. It's not vice versa. If there was only fans and no students, there would be no team. Why would you bite the hand that feeds you? I admit that they probably wouldn't be a D1 team if it wasn't for boosters and such, but without the student body, you wouldn't have a college and therefore there would simply be no team."


That said, here's my real position:

A) the Fargodome can't be expanded as is (keeping the chairbacks)
B) there should be a student section of some size
C) none of the three types of tickets (student, season and single game) should be static for long periods of time, rather they should be dynamic given all the factors

[Bisonoline]

I have no idea how you got this out of my post. Thats like the exact opposite of what I meant.

Welcome to MPLS world!xlolx

[Bisonoline]

When they broke ground on the Fargodome in 1990 the population of Fargo (just Fargo) was 74,111 and for the FM metro it was 153,296. As of the 2010 census that number has grown to 105,549 for Fargo and 208,777 for the FM Metro. With the increase population maybe the city might be ready for a bigger building. I don't think NDSU itself could build a stadium of their own not without a massive collection as the Fargodome cost (according to wiki $78.5mil in 2013 dollars). Their best bet is have the city of Fargo build a bigger dome maybe 30k for football and 40k for concerts? If they can pack 25k for a concert (with the right band/singer) they can pack almost 40k as people from all over the valley and beyond would go to the dome. Just my 2 cents. Now what to do with the old (now current) Fargodome once the new one is built is up to the city. (Donate it to NDSU, use it as a multi-purpose building for things like a circus, political rallies, etc.)

Don't forget that they certainly didnt predict or think about where they would be today as at the time they were D2. Are there any D2 stadiums with 20-30,000 seating? Not that I know of.

[FargoBison]

For the first part of your post, I don't think I quite trust your general statement. The specific example you gave of TCF, I don't believe the state of MN is going to pay for any significant portion of it. More likely, bonds were issued (not sure if that's something allowed for ND universities) that the U of MN will have to pay back.

For the second part of your post, I can tell you right now that a new outdoor stadium for the city of Fargo would lose. A) it's outdoor, so it has limited utility other than football, B) because it would be mainly utilized by NDSU it would lose support within the city from non-NDSU alumni.

I have to believe there are significant UND and other non-NDSU alumni living in Fargo, enough to kill a vote.

The state used bonds to pay for portion of it. I think it is something like $10.25 million a year for the next 25 years.

I don't see Fargo building any new sports facilities anytime soon. NDSU would have to go to the state for money or at least get some kind of special permission to use bonding. I believe the bank of ND is loaning money to UND to help build their new med school so bonding isn't unprecedented but you need permission.

As for no outdoor stadiums being built...NY and San Fran both spent billions to build new outdoor NFL stadiums. Stanford built one, a few schools in Florida built one, Washington completely redid their stadium, SDSU is looking at building one...I could go on and on. For college programs going outside makes more sense, because the facility is cheaper and if you need to expand you don't have to build an entirely new stadium.

[MplsBison]

The state used bonds to pay for portion of it. I think it is something like $10.25 million a year for the next 25 years.

I don't see Fargo building any new sports facilities anytime soon. NDSU would have to go to the state for money or at least get some kind of special permission to use bonding. I believe the bank of ND is loaning money to UND to help build their new med school so bonding isn't unprecedented but you need permission.

As for no outdoor stadiums being built...NY and San Fran both spent billions to build new outdoor NFL stadiums. Stanford built one, a few schools in Florida built one, Washington completely redid their stadium, SDSU is looking at building one...I could go on and on. For college programs going outside makes more sense, because the facility is cheaper and if you need to expand you don't have to build an entirely new stadium.

I would love to see NDSU build an outdoor stadium like what Akron built. I've said that multiple times before.

The reality is that the stadium will not be able to be financed in any way, shape or form by taxpayers. The cities and schools you listed all paid for it with private money or the money they got from the government was not generated directly from tax dollars unless it was a very specific tax which likely could not be implemented in Fargo. I could be wrong on that, but I doubt it. I would guess most taxpayers consider football stadiums to be boondoggles and any tax dollars going toward their construction as welfare, regardless of the facts.


If NDSU can somehow find a way to raise $75M to $100M privately, they can have a darn nice outdoor stadium that fits the program and, as you mentioned, would be much easier to expand. I just don't see it, not unless the campaign is going to last for 20 years.

One day the Fargodome will need to be replaced because of old age. That day isn't any time soon. The city of Fargo won't build any stadium, outdoor or indoor, using tax dollars until that time is up.

Sure the state could come in and give NDSU some money. But they won't. People would literally scream. They'd say the money could be used for hundreds of better things.

I absolutely thing NDSU should be allowed to issue bonds for a new stadium, but again I doubt they'd be allowed to do that even though they'd probably be able to pay it off in 30 years.



And with that said, it brings us back to the original discussion: what to do (if anything) about ticket demand with a stadium that has a set number of seats and can't be expanded. I've given two legitimate proposals: reducing (not eliminating) the student section and replacing (some) chairbacks with bench seating to allow more people to squeeze into the same space.

What say you? Keep in mind, "keep it how it is now" is a valid answer. It's the worst answer, in my opinion, but it is valid.

[darell1976]

Don't forget that they certainly didnt predict or think about where they would be today as at the time they were D2. Are there any D2 stadiums with 20-30,000 seating? Not that I know of.

I am sure they didn't think West Fargo would boom like it has, and with the oil boom out west I don't see the population slowing down.

[darell1976]

I realize there is a "if you build it, they will come" factor that goes along with discussion a new venue.

But the easy challenge to your position is to determine how many events hosted by the Fargodome in the last two years could have sold significantly more tickets with additional seating available. Other than NDSU football, what are we talking about here?


The trick is to somehow frame the discussion in some other light than "NDSU Football need a bigger stadium".

If the Fargodome can get 25k for a concert (Garth Brooks, Rolling Stones, etc.) they could get 30-40k if big names continue to come here. Events like the basketball tournament, Shrine Circus could still remain in the Fargodome, but have Bison football (demand is there) and big name concerts move to the "new" Fargodome.

[Twentysix]

I am sure they didn't think West Fargo would boom like it has, and with the oil boom out west I don't see the population slowing down.

Oline is also ignoring NDSU's enrollment was 9,700 when the fargodome was being planned. It is now 150% of that. The only way to justify the status quo mentality is to pretend we live in any particular snapshot in time. In just 20 years the city and metro and university are all 150% the size they were when the fargodome was planned.

With static growth the numbers would look like this in 2030.

NDSU: 21,750
Fargo: 159,000
Metro: 315,000

A serious stadium project being completed is at least 10 years off, placing us pretty damn close to 2030. It is definitely time to start hashing out some details, then getting into a fundraising mode.

A 22,000 student university having a 19,000 seat stadium in a sports starved region is ridiculous.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Oline is also ignoring NDSU's enrollment was 9,700 when the fargodome was being planned. It is now 150% of that. The only way to justify the status quo mentality is to pretend we live in any particular snapshot in time. In just 20 years the city and metro and university are all 150% the size they were when the fargodome was planned.

In case nobody saw my earlier post, the Fargodome was meant to be a bigger civic center which held 3,000 at the time. Unless NDSU plans on financing a new building entirely by themselves, this will not happen. There is no way the people of Fargo are going to replace a multimillion dollar building after only 20 years.

[Twentysix]

In case nobody saw my earlier post, the Fargodome was meant to be a bigger civic center which held 3,000 at the time. Unless NDSU plans on financing a new building entirely by themselves, this will not happen. There is no way the people of Fargo are going to replace a multimillion dollar building after only 20 years.

If planning then fundraising would take 10+ years, the building will be 30-35 years old. The city has also seen the money a well attended bison football game brings in, growing that attendance + bigger concerts and expo's is in the cities interest.

Tax dollars, tax dollars, they go both ways, in and out.

The city is interested in hotel stays, meals, mall purchases, gas bought.

[gumby013]

In case nobody saw my earlier post, the Fargodome was meant to be a bigger civic center which held 3,000 at the time. Unless NDSU plans on financing a new building entirely by themselves, this will not happen. There is no way the people of Fargo are going to replace a multimillion dollar building after only 20 years.

I was going to reply to say that the King Dome was replaced after 20 years, but I looked it up and it was 24.

[darell1976]

In case nobody saw my earlier post, the Fargodome was meant to be a bigger civic center which held 3,000 at the time. Unless NDSU plans on financing a new building entirely by themselves, this will not happen. There is no way the people of Fargo are going to replace a multimillion dollar building after only 20 years.

I think the tax factor is what people won't vote for especially those outside of Fargo. I know Bison fans in the city/county will vote for a new stadium, but its those who aren't fans, (not like UND fans) but non-sports fans. They are the ones who probably won't see a need in a new stadium. I live in walking distance for the Fargodome, and if they (city) came to me and asked me if I would approve of a new stadium I would be for it (even it wasn't in walking distance). Not a Bison fan, but as a city resident if it could bring in even more money to the city and if they don't built it in a flood prone area go for it. I think some are hesitant to see how it would do if NDSU had down years would people still go, well look at TCF Bank Stadium. Since it opened in 2009 Minnesota has never had a winning record (twice at 6-7 after a bowl loss) and attendance did go from sellout its first year (50,805) down to 46,637 last season maybe NDSU needs to take a wait and see approch but a new dome should stay in the minds of everyone in the FM area.

TCF Bank attendance numbers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCF_Bank_Stadium


Year

Total

Games

Season highest

Average

2009 355,635 7 All sellouts (50,805) 50,805
2010 346,593 7 Iowa (50,805) 49,513
2011 333,996 7 Miami (OH) (49,950) 47,714
2012 326,456 7 Syracuse (50,805) 46,637

[Bisonoline]

Oline is also ignoring NDSU's enrollment was 9,700 when the fargodome was being planned. It is now 150% of that. The only way to justify the status quo mentality is to pretend we live in any particular snapshot in time. In just 20 years the city and metro and university are all 150% the size they were when the fargodome was planned.

With static growth the numbers would look like this in 2030.

NDSU: 21,750
Fargo: 159,000
Metro: 315,000

A serious stadium project being completed is at least 10 years off, placing us pretty damn close to 2030. It is definitely time to start hashing out some details, then getting into a fundraising mode.

A 22,000 student university having a 19,000 seat stadium in a sports starved region is ridiculous.

I had student population in the back of my mind but it never made it to the keyboard. Thanks for the reminder.

[Vitojr130]

One thing people are forgetting is that if NDSU wants to build a new facility, the city will almost certainly follow and chip in. Why? Because the city hasn't been able to pull a profit out of the Fargodome without NDSU football games as a main event for the last few years. Taking out football games will leave the dome running in the red and the city doesn't want that. I believe the dome is already paid off completely and has already profited quite a bit, so the city would be stupid to not talk with NDSU if this was the true desires of the university. If NDSU benefits, the city will benefit through a trickle down effect (more people coming to Fargo and spending money, more students enrolling, etc. etc.).

[Vitojr130]

Oline is also ignoring NDSU's enrollment was 9,700 when the fargodome was being planned. It is now 150% of that. The only way to justify the status quo mentality is to pretend we live in any particular snapshot in time. In just 20 years the city and metro and university are all 150% the size they were when the fargodome was planned.

With static growth the numbers would look like this in 2030.

NDSU: 21,750
Fargo: 159,000
Metro: 315,000

A serious stadium project being completed is at least 10 years off, placing us pretty damn close to 2030. It is definitely time to start hashing out some details, then getting into a fundraising mode.

A 22,000 student university having a 19,000 seat stadium in a sports starved region is ridiculous.

This entire post is 100% correct.

[Southern Bison]

After looking at Akron's stadium, I think it sucks ass. $60+ million for that?

If the Fargodome has been paid off for a few years thanks to Bison football and other events, why wouldn't the City of Fargo see a good ROI on an investment that's now 20 years old. Like 26 said, 10+ years has the building passing 30 and the Metrodome will only be 33 when it gets demolished. Fargo (and NDSU) will be ready for an upgrade in 5 more years.

I swear Mpls' goal is to have an entire page (40) of delayed comebacks and retorts in a thread at one time.

[MplsBison]

If the Fargodome can get 25k for a concert (Garth Brooks, Rolling Stones, etc.) they could get 30-40k if big names continue to come here. Events like the basketball tournament, Shrine Circus could still remain in the Fargodome, but have Bison football (demand is there) and big name concerts move to the "new" Fargodome.

Well they definitely won't maintain two indoor buildings of that size. The operating expenses, not to mention them competing with each other (and the Alerus) for events. That's a guarantee.

The Fargodome will be replaced, one day. When it is, I do expect the new building to have more seating. Perhaps 30k is realistic. Not sure.


But anyway, the point is that it doesn't matter if demand is there right now for 60k people. It just doesn't matter. It still costs X dollars to replace the Fargodome and Fargo doesn't want to spend that right now. Not when the current Fargodome is in very good shape and is "good enough".

That's the North Dakota way. Sorry

[MplsBison]

Oline is also ignoring NDSU's enrollment was 9,700 when the fargodome was being planned. It is now 150% of that. The only way to justify the status quo mentality is to pretend we live in any particular snapshot in time. In just 20 years the city and metro and university are all 150% the size they were when the fargodome was planned.

With static growth the numbers would look like this in 2030.

NDSU: 21,750
Fargo: 159,000
Metro: 315,000

A serious stadium project being completed is at least 10 years off, placing us pretty damn close to 2030. It is definitely time to start hashing out some details, then getting into a fundraising mode.

A 22,000 student university having a 19,000 seat stadium in a sports starved region is ridiculous.

I'll go 2040 before shovels are in the ground. That's 25 solid more years for the Fargodome. The building seems to be in very reasonable shape, should have no problem lasting that long. Plus the new amenities they've added, both for football and other things (meeting rooms, etc.) are what 5 years old? Give it 25 more years.

[MplsBison]

In case nobody saw my earlier post, the Fargodome was meant to be a bigger civic center which held 3,000 at the time. Unless NDSU plans on financing a new building entirely by themselves, this will not happen. There is no way the people of Fargo are going to replace a multimillion dollar building after only 20 years.

Yep.

Doesn't matter how well constructed the argument is for replacing the Fargodome right now. Will not happen.


It's going to be entirely on NDSU, unless they can somehow get a "grant" or something from the state (fat chance - unless UND gets a matching grant) or if the state will let them issue bonds for a new, outdoor football stadium.

[MplsBison]

One thing people are forgetting is that if NDSU wants to build a new facility, the city will almost certainly follow and chip in. Why? Because the city hasn't been able to pull a profit out of the Fargodome without NDSU football games as a main event for the last few years. Taking out football games will leave the dome running in the red and the city doesn't want that. I believe the dome is already paid off completely and has already profited quite a bit, so the city would be stupid to not talk with NDSU if this was the true desires of the university. If NDSU benefits, the city will benefit through a trickle down effect (more people coming to Fargo and spending money, more students enrolling, etc. etc.).

Actually...to me that gives the city all the leverage in the discussion -- because they know NDSU can't fund raise worth a darn (see SHAC).


Therefore, you'd get something like this:

"NDSU: hey city of Fargo, we're going to fund raise for a new outdoor football stadium on our campus. Want to help pay for part of it?"

"Fargo: no."

"Why not?"

"Because it will take you 25 years to raise $50 million and by that time we'll be ready to replace the Fargodome. Why don't you guys just sit back, relax, and enjoy your stay in the Fargodome. When we're good and ready to replace it, we'll let you know and then we can work on what you need for the new building design at that time. K?"

[MplsBison]

After looking at Akron's stadium, I think it sucks ass. $60+ million for that?

If the Fargodome has been paid off for a few years thanks to Bison football and other events, why wouldn't the City of Fargo see a good ROI on an investment that's now 20 years old. Like 26 said, 10+ years has the building passing 30 and the Metrodome will only be 33 when it gets demolished. Fargo (and NDSU) will be ready for an upgrade in 5 more years.

I swear Mpls' goal is to have an entire page (40) of delayed comebacks and retorts in a thread at one time.

Try 25 more years. Fargo isn't Seattle and it isn't Minneapolis. The Fargodome isn't being leased by an NFL team with a billionaire owner who can pitch in hundreds of millions for a new stadium.

It doesn't matter if NDSU football would've paid off the Fargodome 10x over by now. They aren't going to replace the thing right now or even in 10 years.


And if NDSU was somehow going to build a new outdoor stadium, they'd do very well to try replicating Akron's stadium. Very nice facility for the price. Is it TCF? No, but very nice.

[Vitojr130]

Actually...to me that gives the city all the leverage in the discussion -- because they know NDSU can't fund raise worth a darn (see SHAC).


Therefore, you'd get something like this:

"NDSU: hey city of Fargo, we're going to fund raise for a new outdoor football stadium on our campus. Want to help pay for part of it?"

"Fargo: no."

"Why not?"

"Because it will take you 25 years to raise $50 million and by that time we'll be ready to replace the Fargodome. Why don't you guys just sit back, relax, and enjoy your stay in the Fargodome. When we're good and ready to replace it, we'll let you know and then we can work on what you need for the new building design at that time. K?"

xlolxxblahx

[gumby013]

After I win Powerball tonight, I will commit to buy $50M in bonds for a new stadium.

This is a pre-commitment.

[Bisonator]

After I win Powerball tonight, I will commit to buy $50M in bonds for a new stadium.

This is a pre-commitment.

WTF why not just build us a $100 million facility??? xdontknowx

[gumby013]

WTF why not just build us a $100 million facility??? xdontknowx

I need the rest for my tailgate rig.

[MplsBison]

WTF why not just build us a $100 million facility??? xdontknowx

He wants his money back, of course. With interest.

"Heck...I'd go.... one over prime?"

[Bisonator]

I need the rest for my tailgate rig.

xthumbsupx

[gumby013]

He wants his money back, of course. With interest.

"Heck...I'd go.... one over prime?"

I'm hoping for some tax free municipals.


xthumbsupx

Put everyone inside a giant plastic cup and you can drink out of whatever you want.

[MplsBison]

xlolxxblahx

So instead of posting emoticons...why not post how you envision the conversation going? I'd like to know how you think it would work.

That's how discussion works. You trade ideas back and forth.

[Vitojr130]

So instead of posting emoticons...why not post how you envision the conversation going? I'd like to know how you think it would work.

That's how discussion works. You trade ideas back and forth.

That's because your ideas are ridiculous. But, if you wish, I will bite.

1) First of all, you are comparing two different sports with two different groups of people following. Sure, there is some overlap in the fan base, but by and large football attracts more people than would any team that utilizes the SHAC. That's a simple fact. Because of this, I think more people would be willing to donate to a new football facility.

2) "Pshhhh the city wouldn't help NDSU out." Why not? If NDSU is financially successful, that helps the city out tremendously. As I pointed out earlier, if NDSU pulled it's games out of the city run facility we know as the Fargodome, it would have more than likely ran in the red.

http://www.kvrr.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12041&Itemid=57

tl;dr: Extra playoff games are what allowed the Fargodome to profit in 2011.

Because of this, the city would be stupid to not talk with NDSU about helping build a joint facility. No one wants a building that operates in the red, and what would be the problem if the new facility constantly operated in the black (as was the case with the Fargodome).

3) The Fargodome is beginning to age. Let's compare it to Dacotah field. Records indicate that Dacotah field was originally constructed east of where the union currently is located in 1910. Now, simply taking the years 1991 (the year the Fargodome was built) and 1910 and subtracting them make it seem like Dacotah field had a nice long time of use (81 years). However, it should be noted that Dacotah field was moved from east of the union to where the current BSA sits until 1970, when the BSA was constructed. Then, they moved it to it's current location just west of the BSA. That means the new Dacotah field was only in use for 21 years before they decided the Fargodome needed to be built. Well, the Fargodome has surpassed that age and has turned a profit, proving to be a success.

Personally, I think it is time to discuss a new, bigger home for the Bison. That way, if discussions are starting now, we can have one built hopefully within the next 10 years. By that time, the need would definitely be there. This is what happens when universities grow. The Fargodome was created when NDSU only had about 9000 students. Now, we are over 15,000. That means both current students and alumni are increasing faster than before. It's time to talk about making another place that can fit everyone who wants to enjoy Bison football.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

That's because your ideas are ridiculous. But, if you wish, I will bite.

1) First of all, you are comparing two different sports with two different groups of people following. Sure, there is some overlap in the fan base, but by and large football attracts more people than would any team that utilizes the SHAC. That's a simple fact. Because of this, I think more people would be willing to donate to a new football facility.

2) "Pshhhh the city wouldn't help NDSU out." Why not? If NDSU is financially successful, that helps the city out tremendously. As I pointed out earlier, if NDSU pulled it's games out of the city run facility we know as the Fargodome, it would have more than likely ran in the red.

http://www.kvrr.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12041&Itemid=57

tl;dr: Extra playoff games are what allowed the Fargodome to profit in 2011.

Because of this, the city would be stupid to not talk with NDSU about helping build a joint facility. No one wants a building that operates in the red, and what would be the problem if the new facility constantly operated in the black (as was the case with the Fargodome).

3) The Fargodome is beginning to age. Let's compare it to Dacotah field. Records indicate that Dacotah field was originally constructed east of where the union currently is located in 1910. Now, simply taking the years 1991 (the year the Fargodome was built) and 1910 and subtracting them make it seem like Dacotah field had a nice long time of use (81 years). However, it should be noted that Dacotah field was moved from east of the union to where the current BSA sits until 1970, when the BSA was constructed. Then, they moved it to it's current location just west of the BSA. That means the new Dacotah field was only in use for 21 years before they decided the Fargodome needed to be built. Well, the Fargodome has surpassed that age and has turned a profit, proving to be a success.

Personally, I think it is time to discuss a new, bigger home for the Bison. That way, if discussions are starting now, we can have one built hopefully within the next 10 years. By that time, the need would definitely be there. This is what happens when universities grow. The Fargodome was created when NDSU only had about 9000 students. Now, we are over 15,000. That means both current students and alumni are increasing faster than before. It's time to talk about making another place that can fit everyone who wants to enjoy Bison football.

Where were you in 1988? Because I remember it being a miracle on the biblical scale to get the Fargodome approved.

[Twentysix]

Where were you in 1988? Because I remember it being a miracle on the biblical scale to get the Fargodome approved.

That may be, but no fargodome-esque building or success blueprint for fargo existed at this time. They were dealing with a lot more unknown's than now. It isn't the same situation or even the same government or voting body.

[Vitojr130]

Where were you in 1988? Because I remember it being a miracle on the biblical scale to get the Fargodome approved.

I was minerals in the ground waiting to be eaten and turned into gametes at that time. But, that was before there was any proof that an indoor, joint-facility would succeed. Now that the Fargodome has done just that, there should be less push-back. Or so it would seem...xlolx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I was minerals in the ground waiting to be eaten and turned into gametes at that time. But, that was before there was any proof that an indoor, joint-facility would succeed. Now that the Fargodome has done just that, there should be less push-back. Or so it would seem...xlolx

Yep. just look at all the new buildings the city has built recently.

[DJKyR0]

Put everyone inside a giant plastic cup and you can drink out of whatever you want.

My idea for a blank-check tailgate rig:

1. Buy a giant yacht.
2. Buy out enough reserved parking spots to convert them into a small lake big enough to fit said yacht.
3. Put yacht in lake.
4. Tailgate like a god.

[Vitojr130]

Yep. just look at all the new buildings the city has built recently.

New city hall in the works (potentially).

[NoDak 4 Ever]

New city hall in the works (potentially).

Yep. I lived in Fargo for 32 years. I know the drill.

[344Johnson]

My idea for a blank-check tailgate rig:

1. Buy a giant yacht.
2. Buy out enough reserved parking spots to convert them into a small lake big enough to fit said yacht.
3. Put yacht in lake.
4. Tailgate like a god.

Oh hell yes. All hail the HMS KyRo

[Southern Bison]

My idea for a blank-check tailgate rig:

1. Buy a giant yacht.
2. Buy out enough reserved parking spots to convert them into a small lake big enough to fit said yacht.
3. Put yacht in lake.
4. Tailgate like a god.

Onlly 5,912 posts remaining until you can change your moniker to "Gilligan of the AGS"!!

[Southern Bison]

That may be, but no fargodome-esque building or success blueprint for fargo existed at this time. They were dealing with a lot more unknown's than now. It isn't the same situation or even the same government or voting body.

I'm going to go for the Mpls-style response tonight with 8 or 10 posts in a row to everyone else's comments individually so bear with me.

It was conversations like this amongst NDSU supporters and Fargo leaders (yes, they happened before Al Gore created the internet) that developed into the Fargodome we've enjoyed for the past 20 years. If NDSU is going to be part of the FBS (as a couple posters want) or the combination of the 5 FBS & FCS top programs, then the need for a larger stadium is going to grow. Bison football has helped to put Fargo in the spotlight and NDSU is a key reason for the growth of Fargo & the surrounding area. The talent that has been shown by Fargo to run the existing Fargodome with a profit is a great political win for supporters to tout a bigger, better facility within the next 15 years.

[Southern Bison]

So instead of posting emoticons...why not post how you envision the conversation going? I'd like to know how you think it would work.

That's how discussion works. You trade ideas back and forth.

The difference is that our ideas actually have merit and logic backing them up where as yours are just horse apples.

[Southern Bison]

My god what is this idiot posting or is he just tlking to himself?


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/bri4878/idiot_zps650aca25.gif

BB, you should un-block him...his logic just proves that he went to either the Grand Forks Community College, the University of Virgins in Bismarck, or the Whapeton School of Almost Made It.

[Southern Bison]

Try 25 more years. Fargo isn't Seattle and it isn't Minneapolis. The Fargodome isn't being leased by an NFL team with a billionaire owner who can pitch in hundreds of millions for a new stadium.

It doesn't matter if NDSU football would've paid off the Fargodome 10x over by now. They aren't going to replace the thing right now or even in 10 years.


And if NDSU was somehow going to build a new outdoor stadium, they'd do very well to try replicating Akron's stadium. Very nice facility for the price. Is it TCF? No, but very nice.

Thank God that Fargo isn't SEA or MSP...a bunch of dumbass liberals that run both states & cities.

The civic and business leaders in Fargo are fairly savvy to see a good ROI and as the Fargodome continues to age, they will see operating expenses continue to rise. NDSU football has been THE key component to the financial success of the building and if the City of Fargo wants to see that continue, you will see some action on this within the next decade.

Akron's stadium could not hold a candle to the home-field environment of the Fargodome or the future indoor stadium that I foresee. Ask any GaSo fan or MVFC fan on here that has attended a game there and they are jealous of how it's deafening when their team has the ball. An indoor stadium, in my mind, is something that has helped the Bison and going back to an outdoor field would not benefit the team overall.

[Southern Bison]

Damn...only 5 in a row...I guess I can't spew bull **** like Mpls can.