Patriot League Preseason Poll

[Pard4Life]

Results announced today.

http://www.patriotleague.org/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/073113aac.html

All-league team: http://www.patriotleague.org/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/073113aab.html

Colgate and Lehigh will not finish 1-2. They may not even be in the top two.

Holy Cross and Lafayette could very well be 1-2. And Bucknell, if it finds offense, could make a run. Without question Buffaloes have the best defense in the league.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh and/or Colgate have finished 1st something like 14 of the last 16 years. I'd wager it happens again, even in a tie.

[Franks Tanks]

The league should be wide open this year once again. I am actually not very high on Holy Cross. I felt their overall talent level was off last (they just seemed small and slow)and I don't know if that will improve tremendously in just one year. I could very well be wrong however!

Lafayette will probably start strong, get 11 guys suspended by week 5, and lose to Colgate by 58 points.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The league should be wide open this year once again. I am actually not very high on Holy Cross. I felt their overall talent level was off last (they just seemed small and slow)and I don't know if that will improve tremendously in just one year. I could very well be wrong however!

Lafayette will probably start strong, get 11 guys suspended by week 5, and lose to Colgate by 58 points.

2-9 is a huge hole to come out of. Just to get over .500 would be an enormous accomplishment. What's the biggest one season turnaround in PL history?

[crusader11]

2-9 is a huge hole to come out of. Just to get over .500 would be an enormous accomplishment. What's the biggest one season turnaround in PL history?

If we are counting Fordham, they were 1-10 in 2011, and 6-5 last year.

[Lehigh'98]

Lehigh was 4-7 in 1997 and 12-1 in 1998, probably not the biggest, but impressive nonetheless...

[crusader11]

And, it wouldn't surprise me if HC finished 1 or 2. The offense was clicking nicely in the final few weeks.

2-9 is an awful season, but when you dig deeper and see that losses to Brown, Dartmouth, Fordham, Lehigh, and Wagner were by a combined 12 points, and HC led in the 4th quarter in all of these games, I don't think HC was really that far away from being a .500 team.

[Sader87]

The HC lines were both banged up and jumbled last year (OL guys playing DL etc)....that being said, (and I know everyone says this) HC was a very good 2-9 last year if such a thing exists. I've never seen a team either fall apart, blow a lead etc like we did last year: up 21-10 on Brown lost 24-21. Fumble on our 25 w/ :09 left in game, lose 13-10 to Dartmouth. Fordham scores with :05 seconds left, wins 36-32, we miss a 42 yd FG as time expires, lose to Lehigh 36-35. Up 30-17 at Wagner with under 5 minutes left, lose 31-30.

The Lafayette game in Easton was the only real PL stinker, 30-13. The Colgate game in Hamilton turned into a track meet and HC was very much in it going into the 4th before losing 51-35.

I know...coulda, woulda, shoulda....my point being though, HC was not that bad of a team last year and return many players on both sides.

[Sader87]

Like minds SoV....we gotta get lives lol

[crusader11]

Like minds SoV....we gotta get lives lol

Slow afternoon at the office during the summer...thought I'd peruse AGS and see what was up. Been a while since I've ventured over to these parts.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The problem with Gilmore's teams is they always lose two games they shouldn't. The 2011 squad was very solid yet couldn't manage better than 6-5.

[crusader11]

The problem with Gilmore's teams is they always lose two games they shouldn't. The 2011 squad was very solid yet couldn't manage better than 6-5.

The offense was really clicking the first four games that year averaging 28.75 points against some good teams (UMASS, Harvard, Colgate, and New Hampshire), but then HC's starting QB got banged up in their next game against Brown and was playing injured the rest of the season. Even still, probably shouldn't have lost to Brown and Georgetown.

I think HC will surprise some people this season (that's the homer in me speaking, obviously).

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The one thing that has separated Lehigh from the rest of the league is the dominance over Georgetown, Bucknell and Fordham. The ability to avoid hiccups has kept them in the race basically every year.

[Franks Tanks]

The HC lines were both banged up and jumbled last year (OL guys playing DL etc)....that being said, (and I know everyone says this) HC was a very good 2-9 last year if such a thing exists. I've never seen a team either fall apart, blow a lead etc like we did last year: up 21-10 on Brown lost 24-21. Fumble on our 25 w/ :09 left in game, lose 13-10 to Dartmouth. Fordham scores with :05 seconds left, wins 36-32, we miss a 42 yd FG as time expires, lose to Lehigh 36-35. Up 30-17 at Wagner with under 5 minutes left, lose 31-30.

The Lafayette game in Easton was the only real PL stinker, 30-13. The Colgate game in Hamilton turned into a track meet and HC was very much in it going into the 4th before losing 51-35.

I know...coulda, woulda, shoulda....my point being though, HC was not that bad of a team last year and return many players on both sides.

To be fair I only saw Cross play @ Lafayette last year. The lines did look rather poor, and the skill positions were not overly impressive from a speed standpoint. I understand the lines were a mess for that game, and Cross usually has quality line play so that should improve. I did seem that Holy Cross lacked speed at WR, DB and RB last year. Would you agree?

[RichH2]

All Bball all the time eh? Cross s/b in top half based on experience and less injuries. Lack of speed hard to overcome tho. Race is wideopen. Gate will have to survive a ver hard OOC. Not one team has a lock, all have major holes

[Go...gate]

2-9 is a huge hole to come out of. Just to get over .500 would be an enormous accomplishment. What's the biggest one season turnaround in PL history?

Colgate, 0-11 in 1995 to 6-5 in 1996.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate, 0-11 in 1995 to 6-5 in 1996.

What Biddle did was extremely impressive. That 1997 team was darn good, especially when you consider their schedule.

So in terms of eligible teams Lehigh had a 7 game swing in '98 and Colgate a 6 game improvement.

[Sader87]

To be fair I only saw Cross play @ Lafayette last year. The lines did look rather poor, and the skill positions were not overly impressive from a speed standpoint. I understand the lines were a mess for that game, and Cross usually has quality line play so that should improve. I did seem that Holy Cross lacked speed at WR, DB and RB last year. Would you agree?

Splitting the difference, I'd say yes and no. In general, since we went non-scholly, I think the biggest difference since (imo) has been the overall lack of speed/quickness with the size of the players (LB's and DB's in particular) overall being a close second.

That being said, the WR corps seemed to run their routes well and got open more than not. The RB's for the most part were more in the mold of FB's...hard runners but not terribly quick. The DB corps weren't terribly fast overall but a couple guys (Coffaro and Zitnik) seem to have pretty good wheels.

[RichH2]

Cross teams very well coached every year. Few ment mistakes. Harping. I know, but overal lteam speed poor. Leaves small margin of error

[heath]

Holy Cross could have easily been 7-4 last season,just bad luck. They could be a sleeperxthumbsupx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh Media Day Article....


Some might see getting selected second behind Colgate in the Patriot League preseason football poll as a slight and the dose of motivational medicine Lehigh needs as it enters the 2013 season.Linebacker Nigel Muhammad said, however, that no matter where the Mountain Hawks stand, motivation entering this season wasn't a concern.

"To be honest, I don't know how much more motivation we'd need, considering how last season ended," Muhammad said. "Regardless of what the rankings say, we're fired up and ready to go. I'm sure our coaches will use it as more fuel. But we're already hungry since we went 10-1 last season and were left with nothing to show for it."


Read more: http://www.mcall.com/sports/college/mc-lehigh-patriot-league-20130731,0,2643397.story#ixzz2aivTCA7l
Follow us: @mcall on Twitter | mcall.lv on Facebook

[CFBfan]

Holy Cross could have easily been 7-4 last season,just bad luck. They could be a sleeperxthumbsupx

You are what your record says you are! HC was NOT 7-4 and NO team could have easily been 7-4 when they were ACTUALY 2-9 c'mon!!!!!
every one deals with people banged up and GOOD teams WIN close games, not so good teams don't......especialy 5 of them!!!!!!

[CFBfan]

Lehigh Media Day Article....

Has ANY player EVER said that they were NOT motivated for the up coming season???

[CFBfan]

Lehigh and/or Colgate have finished 1st something like 14 of the last 16 years. I'd wager it happens again, even in a tie.

How many times has this poll picked the eventual winner?

[RichH2]

Lets not forget thet LU could easily have been 6-5 last yr. Lots of close games. Dont expect much difference this yr. 6-5 to 9-2 a wide range IMO for this season.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lets not forget thet LU could easily have been 6-5 last yr. Lots of close games. Dont expect much difference this yr. 6-5 to 9-2 a wide range IMO for this season.

That's usually the case for just about everyone. Look at Notre Dame last year..

Lehigh played a ton of close games in 2010, more imo, than last year. Everyone still remembers the inability to win the close ones in '08 and '09.....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yFZed6Kn66g

[RichH2]

So true Andy's first 3-4 yrs were brutal w losing close ones.

[heath]

You are what your record says you are! HC was NOT 7-4 and NO team could have easily been 7-4 when they were ACTUALY 2-9 c'mon!!!!!
every one deals with people banged up and GOOD teams WIN close games, not so good teams don't......especialy 5 of them!!!!!!

If you are what your record says you are,then how did a 10 win team miss the playoffs?............unless most thought they were not as good as their record?xshhhx Lehigh could have easily been 7-4,and I think that is what the committee thought alsoxbowx

[Lehigh'98]

If you are what your record says you are,then how did a 10 win team miss the playoffs?............unless most thought they were not as good as their record?xshhhx Lehigh could have easily been 7-4,and I think that is what the committee thought alsoxbowx

But they were 10-1. You can keep them out of the playoffs but you can never take those wins away

[ngineer]

So true Andy's first 3-4 yrs were brutal w losing close ones.

And that is what makes good teams. The ability to win the game that is 'up for grabs'. Good teams make fewer mistakes that lead to close losses so that the 'shoulda couldas' become moot.

[Go...gate]

Our conference is balanced enough that it is hard to pick a winner. I think Lehigh should be favored to win the title, but also think that Lafayette and Holy Cross are due for strong seasons. I see Colgate about .500 in the league and overall given the graduation losses, defensive deficiencies, and schedule strength. I hope we are a bit better but I believe that is asking a lot.

I also think Fordham could be very good.

[LUHawker]

but also think that Lafayette and Holy Cross are due for strong seasons.

This.

There is no "reversion to the mean" principle in football, or sports in general, for that matter. I think there is a higher likelihood of HC having a more impressive season than Lafayette this year, but there is no mathematical law that would support this statement.

[Franks Tanks]

This.

There is no "reversion to the mean" principle in football, or sports in general, for that matter. I think there is a higher likelihood of HC having a more impressive season than Lafayette this year, but there is no mathematical law that would support this statement.

Lafayette beat Cross pretty good last year. Sader 87 said that the crusaders had a lot of guys out for that game, and I believe him, but Lafayette looked more talented than Holy Cross last year. I am not high on Holy Cross for 2013. They should be better than last year, but I think they will struggle.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Our conference is balanced enough that it is hard to pick a winner. I think Lehigh should be favored to win the title, but also think that Lafayette and Holy Cross are due for strong seasons. I see Colgate about .500 in the league and overall given the graduation losses, defensive deficiencies, and schedule strength. I hope we are a bit better but I believe that is asking a lot.

I also think Fordham could be very good.

What's ironic is the coaches and media don't believe so. The poll was pretty cut and dry between the upper (CU/LU), middle(LC/HC and lower(GU/BU). Perhaps it's just a case of, the more things change, the more they stay the same....

[RichH2]

Cross is not a puzzle. No speed. So well prepared they will stay in games. If all breaks exactly right they really could win it all, but the margin for error is infinitesmal

[Pard4Life]

This.

There is no "reversion to the mean" principle in football, or sports in general, for that matter. I think there is a higher likelihood of HC having a more impressive season than Lafayette this year, but there is no mathematical law that would support this statement.

Say as you wish, but that is just ridiculous. Pards were much closer to winning seven games than Holy Cross last year. It's just perception.

[Pard4Life]

Our conference is balanced enough that it is hard to pick a winner. I think Lehigh should be favored to win the title, but also think that Lafayette and Holy Cross are due for strong seasons. I see Colgate about .500 in the league and overall given the graduation losses, defensive deficiencies, and schedule strength. I hope we are a bit better but I believe that is asking a lot.

I also think Fordham could be very good.

I am glad that you are honest and taking a self-reflective approach, unlike the Saucon Swine. Colgate is a .500 team at this point. McCarney is a solid QB and deservedly first-team, but how about your OL? I'll say it until I'm blue: Colgate's success last year was significantly based upon the talent and execution of their OL, and OL is the toughest group to achieve cohesion. You are replacing four starters, and that takes time. If they are good players, you will do well late in the season, but it will be a struggle early.

[Pard4Life]

What's ironic is the coaches and media don't believe so. The poll was pretty cut and dry between the upper (CU/LU), middle(LC/HC and lower(GU/BU). Perhaps it's just a case of, the more things change, the more they stay the same....

Coaches and SIDs lack imagination and daring. Picking last year's standings does not raise eyebrows, cause headlines, or create their own story.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Two words: Wide open.

[DFW HOYA]

What's ironic is the coaches and media don't believe so. The poll was pretty cut and dry between the upper (CU/LU), middle(LC/HC and lower(GU/BU). Perhaps it's just a case of, the more things change, the more they stay the same....

Agreed.

More and more, the league is settling among these three tiers, roughly on budgets. Does anyone seriously see Georgetown or Bucknell challenging for the title going forward? The media doesn't. Lafayette? Even that's subject to debate.

Like most conferences, it's a matter of what you spend. Anyone expect Mississippi State or Kentucky to compete for the SEC title? Not when Alabama outspends them over two to one. The PL resisted this market force for the longest time, but with scholarships they've come to accept it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Agreed.

More and more, the league is settling among these three tiers, roughly on budgets. Does anyone seriously see Georgetown or Bucknell challenging for the title going forward? The media doesn't. Lafayette? Even that's subject to debate.

Like most conferences, it's a matter of what you spend. Anyone expect Mississippi State or Kentucky to compete for the SEC title? Not when Alabama outspends them over two to one. The PL resisted this market force for the longest time, but with scholarships they've come to accept it.

Just a point of procedure: I believe the polling for the PL media day is done by the SIDs and athletic directors, I believe, not media in the strict sense of the word. Which makes sense because if you did, you'd get disproportionate votes for the Valley teams.

[Pard4Life]

Agreed.

More and more, the league is settling among these three tiers, roughly on budgets. Does anyone seriously see Georgetown or Bucknell challenging for the title going forward? The media doesn't. Lafayette? Even that's subject to debate.

Like most conferences, it's a matter of what you spend. Anyone expect Mississippi State or Kentucky to compete for the SEC title? Not when Alabama outspends them over two to one. The PL resisted this market force for the longest time, but with scholarships they've come to accept it.

We are just fine... we have Bourger House among other attractive variables. Our issue is the Cretacous creaton roaming the sidelines. Plus our head football coaching position was just endowed for $2mm... the only one in the league I believe... and you are questioning our commitment?

And Mississippi State just had one of the top recruiting classes in the nation... they will make noise at some point.

[DFW HOYA]

We are just fine... we have Bourger House among other attractive variables. Our issue is the Cretacous creaton roaming the sidelines. Plus our head football coaching position was just endowed for $2mm... the only one in the league I believe... and you are questioning our commitment?

Not questioning commitment. But if Fordham and Colgate are going to outspend Lafayette by $1M a year, that has to have a cumulative effect, endowed coach or not.

In other PL news, Georgetown has added another quarterback to the fall roster and has moved its #2 QB to WR, which is not always a good sign.

There are now seven active QB's, including four freshmen.

[Pard4Life]

Not questioning commitment. But if Fordham and Colgate are going to outspend Lafayette by $1M a year, that has to have a cumulative effect, endowed coach or not.

In other PL news, Georgetown has added another quarterback to the fall roster and has moved its #2 QB to WR, which is not always a good sign.

There are now seven active QB's, including four freshmen.

Fordham-Colgate spending statistics may be skewed. Lafayette will be awarding the full complement of scholarships, so our spending will be in the neighborhood of theirs. Colgate has been a full counter for awhile and we know Fordham's story.

(I can see where this thread could be heading :(

[Franks Tanks]

Fordham-Colgate spending statistics may be skewed. Lafayette will be awarding the full complement of scholarships, so our spending will be in the neighborhood of theirs. Colgate has been a full counter for awhile and we know Fordham's story.

(I can see where this thread could be heading :(

Lafayette's football spending as been on par with Leigh's, and not really that far behind Colgate. Our largest issue occupies the corner office at Bourger field house.

[DFW HOYA]

You Lafayette fans are going to miss Frank Tavani when he retires in 2025.

But seriously, there are no guarantees the next coach will be another Tim Murphy or Dick Biddle. A nice office and an endowed chair is a great start but it's not a clincher for sustained success.

[Franks Tanks]

You Lafayette fans are going to miss Frank Tavani when he retires in 2025.

But seriously, there are no guarantees the next coach will be another Tim Murphy or Dick Biddle. A nice office and an endowed chair is a great start but it's not a clincher for sustained success.

I like Frank,and he is a good man. He is however not a great x's and o's coach. He is a salesman, a recruiter and someone who can advocate for the program. It can be argued that the program needed exactly that after the malaise at the end of the Russo era. We had a crappy stadium, and idiot President who tried to ruin football at LC and an apathetic fanbase. Frank brought energy and excitement, and eventually championships. He efforts helped secure the funds used to build our current facilities, and brough fans back to Fisher Stadium. I think everyone who cares about Lafayette football owe's Frank a tremdous debt of gratitude, but I think the program needs someone who is a better technical footbal coach to get the program to reach its full potential. I've heard the heat is on Frank. I hope he kills it this year, and things finally come together for him. However if Lafayette has another medicore to poor year marked by inconsistent play, things will get interesting on college hill IMO.

[Pard4Life]

I like Frank,and he is a good man. He is however not a great x's and o's coach. He is a salesman, a recruiter and someone who can advocate for the program. It can be argued that the program needed exactly that after the malaise at the end of the Russo era. We had a crappy stadium, and idiot President who tried to ruin football at LC and an apathetic fanbase. Frank brought energy and excitement, and eventually championships. He efforts helped secure the funds used to build our current facilities, and brough fans back to Fisher Stadium. I think everyone who cares about Lafayette football owe's Frank a tremdous debt of gratitude, but I think the program needs someone who is a better technical footbal coach to get the program to reach its full potential. I've heard the heat is on Frank. I hope he kills it this year, and things finally come together for him. However if Lafayette has another medicore to poor year marked by inconsistent play, things will get interesting on college hill IMO.

Pretty much. Tavani deserves a huge amount of credit for the past decade. He turned the whole ship around when others wanted to push it under.

[Pard4Life]

Lafayette's football spending as been on par with Leigh's, and not really that far behind Colgate. Our largest issue occupies the corner office at Bourger field house.

Markle too... but he's gone (and not Weiss, the enrollment and financial aid dean). Frank is sure to cost us a game or two each year but not on the scale of the past few years' disasters.

[Go...gate]

I am glad that you are honest and taking a self-reflective approach, unlike the Saucon Swine. Colgate is a .500 team at this point. McCarney is a solid QB and deservedly first-team, but how about your OL? I'll say it until I'm blue: Colgate's success last year was significantly based upon the talent and execution of their OL, and OL is the toughest group to achieve cohesion. You are replacing four starters, and that takes time. If they are good players, you will do well late in the season, but it will be a struggle early.

You hit it on the head. Pretty much as long as I can remember (well over fifty years, back to the Hal Lahar/Alva Kelley eras), Colgate's success was keyed by the OL and its running backs. They are the prototype cold-weather team. There have been some exceptional passers QBs (Goepel and Calabria) but even the QBs were expected to carry the ball successfully. McCarney is exceptional because, like Tom Parr, he is a fine passer and runner.

That said, this is a season of transition in Hamilton.

[carney2]

I like Frank,and he is a good man. He is however not a great x's and o's coach. He is a salesman, a recruiter and someone who can advocate for the program. It can be argued that the program needed exactly that after the malaise at the end of the Russo era. We had a crappy stadium, and idiot President who tried to ruin football at LC and an apathetic fanbase. Frank brought energy and excitement, and eventually championships. He efforts helped secure the funds used to build our current facilities, and brough fans back to Fisher Stadium. I think everyone who cares about Lafayette football owe's Frank a tremdous debt of gratitude, but I think the program needs someone who is a better technical footbal coach to get the program to reach its full potential. I've heard the heat is on Frank. I hope he kills it this year, and things finally come together for him. However if Lafayette has another medicore to poor year marked by inconsistent play, things will get interesting on college hill IMO.

A lot of opinions and info here, most of it relevant, to wit

Frank Tavani is NOT a good game day coach. The man who invented the "prevent offense" will lose or jeopardize at least one game each year all by himself. You just hope it isn't a game that matters.

Not unrelated to the first point is the vast number of no show games over the past 4 or 5 years. You know it's gonna happen and you almost hope it will be Harvard (again) because you're not going to win that one anyway.

Tavani did, in many ways "save" the program and is a great ambassador for Lafayette football and the College.

Tanks is a reliable source but his comment that "the heat is on" comes as something of a surprise. The heat is rarely on an athletics coach on College Hill, but perhaps being in charge of that one game is everything matchup with Lehigh each November is a difference maker here.

[Pard4Life]

Yeah, Tavani is too tied into the people that would put the heat on... the mega-donors.

And when there are no mega-donors, you have the evaluative patience of Bruce. And all we need to mention is Tammy Smith, who averaged 3 wins per year over a decade.

[Franks Tanks]

A lot of opinions and info here, most of it relevant, to wit

Frank Tavani is NOT a good game day coach. The man who invented the "prevent offense" will lose or jeopardize at least one game each year all by himself. You just hope it isn't a game that matters.

Not unrelated to the first point is the vast number of no show games over the past 4 or 5 years. You know it's gonna happen and you almost hope it will be Harvard (again) because you're not going to win that one anyway.

Tavani did, in many ways "save" the program and is a great ambassador for Lafayette football and the College.

Tanks is a reliable source but his comment that "the heat is on" comes as something of a surprise. The heat is rarely on an athletics coach on College Hill, but perhaps being in charge of that one game is everything matchup with Lehigh each November is a difference maker here.

I am anything but an insider, but i've heard Frank is feeling it (at least what constitutes heat at LC).

[Pard4Life]

I am anything but an insider, but i've heard Frank is feeling it (at least what constitutes heat at LC).

I've heard him say it too, but I come to think of it as alumni and passers-by rattling him with "hey coach, when are you going to beat Lehigh?" Not USC-like heat.

[DFW HOYA]

Is there really any "heat" on Tavani at this point? Lose to the Engineers in '13 and the game in NYC becomes a big, big deal entering the last two years of his contract, but being a coach in the PL is otherwise a less stressful job.

In terms of pressure for this season (if you want to define it as heat), the list would be:

1. Susan
2. Tavani
3. Coen
4. Gilmore
5. Biddle
6. Moorhead
7. Kelly

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Is there really any "heat" on Tavani at this point? Lose to the Engineers in '13 and the game in NYC becomes a bigger deal, OK, but being a coach in the PL is a quiet and somewhat less stressed job.

In terms of pressure for this season (if you want to define it as heat), the list would be:

1. Susan
2. Tavani
3. Coen
4. Gilmore
5. Moorhead
6. Biddle
7. Kelly

I think Gilmore could feel some heat if HC endures another losing season. Outside of 2009 the Crusaders have been stuck in mediocrity.

I'd Go...

1. Susan - He has to show improvement, granted they did manage 6-5 in 2011...
2. Moorhead - given all the money being pumped into the program a losing season would not be welcomed
3. Gilmore - Is he really the guy to take HC to the next level?
4. Coen - losing seasons simply aren't accepted
5. Tavani - what are the real expectations? This is a program that has won more than 9 games once in the last 50 years...
6. Kelly - 8-3 in 2011 should grant him a 5 year reprieve
7. Biddle - will decide when he steps down...

[Engineer86]

Is there really any "heat" on Tavani at this point? Lose to the Engineers in '13 and the game in NYC becomes a big, big deal entering the last two years of his contract, but being a coach in the PL is otherwise a less stressful job.

In terms of pressure for this season (if you want to define it as heat), the list would be:

1. Susan
2. Tavani
3. Coen
4. Gilmore
5. Biddle
6. Moorhead
7. Kelly

While I think the bottom three on you list do have very little pressure. I highly doubt that Coen has more pressure on his job than Gilmore

[crusader11]

Outside of 2009 the Crusaders have been stuck in mediocrity.


A league record of 24-11 from 2006-2011 was the best in the Patriot League (edit: Coen actually is better at 26-9). Hardly mediocre.

Although, he probably should have another championship ring on his finger (2008).

[Engineer86]

One added point on Coen, five in a row vs Lafayette. There was a reason why Lembo felt the heat despite winning. The Game

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

A league record of 24-11 from 2006-2011 was the best in the Patriot League. Hardly mediocre.

Although, he probably should have another championship ring on his finger (2008).

Gilmore has a slightly better than .500 record

PL/Career Records

Tom Gilmore 53-47, 9 Seasons
Frank Tavani 71-75 13 Season
Joe Susan 10-23 Bucknell 3 Seasons, 20-23 Overall
Kevin Kelly 22-54, 7 Seasons
Andy Coen 51-30, 7 Seasons
Dick Biddle 133-65, 17 seasons
Jim Moorhead 6-5, 1 Season

[heath]

Pretty much. Tavani deserves a huge amount of credit for the past decade. He turned the whole ship around when others wanted to push it under.

Reminds me of George Welsh at UVA. Virginia became a top team and very successful for a few years in the 80's- 90's ,but when the RIVAL(VT) started to overshadow his good teams.The alumni ran him out of town.Look at UVA the past 8-9 years.........they wish they still had Welsh coached teams now. Lafayette is at that same crossroad,but if you can't get a better coach,what do you do? VT= Lehigh

[ngineer]

While I think the bottom three on you list do have very little pressure. I highly doubt that Coen has more pressure on his job than Gilmore

Agreed. My gosh, he's won 31 games in the past three years. No one is going to have double digit winning seasons year in and out. Moreover, especially at our level, there will be some 'down' cycles as well. Coen is well set at Lehigh at this point. His leaving now would be soley at his decision to go to 'the next level'. If we have another 10 win season, or even as 'bad' as 8-3, I would think either he or Chick would be going somewhere else. Coen is only in his late 40's and Cecchini is early 40's, so I think something would have to give there in the near future. But as to the question, I see very little heat on Coen right now.

As for Tavani, I agree a lot with what the Leotard posters have said. Frank's only 'sore spot' right now is the losing streak to us. And while the alumni will really grouse over that when that happens at either school, I don't know if it carries as much 'juice' as it did decades ago. Regardless of what happens this year, I would think LC would at the very least let Frank coach #150 in Yankee Stadium.

[Engineer86]

The 150 game is a good point. It would be a really d**ch* move to can the guy right before the 150, even if he has another bad season and loses The Game

[van]

Agreed. My gosh, he's won 31 games in the past three years. No one is going to have double digit winning seasons year in and out. Moreover, especially at our level, there will be some 'down' cycles as well. Coen is well set at Lehigh at this point. His leaving now would be soley at his decision to go to 'the next level'. If we have another 10 win season, or even as 'bad' as 8-3, I would think either he or Chick would be going somewhere else. Coen is only in his late 40's and Cecchini is early 40's, so I think something would have to give there in the near future. But as to the question, I see very little heat on Coen right now.

As for Tavani, I agree a lot with what the Leotard posters have said. Frank's only 'sore spot' right now is the losing streak to us. And while the alumni will really grouse over that when that happens at either school, I don't know if it carries as much 'juice' as it did decades ago. Regardless of what happens this year, I would think LC would at the very least let Frank coach #150 in Yankee Stadium.

Can't imagine Coen on the hot seat, although he sure was in his first few years. IMO, he has the right stuff to represent our University and lead the football staff. Sure hope he stays a long time, same for coach Chick.

[The Maestro]

Can't imagine Coen on the hot seat, although he sure was in his first few years. IMO, he has the right stuff to represent our University and lead the football staff. Sure hope he stays a long time, same for coach Chick.

Sterrett stood by his man and it certainly seems to have paid off. Gotta admit I was not a fan of the product that was put on the field Andy's first couple years, especially defensively. But of course the guys before him were also of the "try to outscore 'em" mentality.

[carney2]

There are no "hot seats" in the Patriot League - at least not this year.

[RichH2]

There are no "hot seats" in the Patriot League - at least not this year.

+1

[Bogus Megapardus]

It would be a really d**ch* move to can the guy right before the 150, even if he has another bad season and loses The Game

That's and excellent point. Neither school ought to go into the game if the main story is going to start out with, "New head coach . . . . " Coen and Tavani know one another's tendencies and will suffer no excuses. Let them battle it out on a level playing field. The #150 roster for each team really will be an accident of the players' birth year, but Coen and Tavani each have demonstrated that he is deserving of coaching this game.

[ngineer]

That's and excellent point. Neither school ought to go into the game if the main story is going to start out with, "New head coach . . . . " Coen and Tavani know one another's tendencies and will suffer no excuses. Let them battle it out on a level playing field. The #150 roster for each team really will be an accident of the players' birth year, but Coen and Tavani each have demonstrated that he is deserving of coaching this game.

Assuming the grounds crew remembers to level the pitching mound!

[Pard4Life]

That's and excellent point. Neither school ought to go into the game if the main story is going to start out with, "New head coach . . . . " Coen and Tavani know one another's tendencies and will suffer no excuses. Let them battle it out on a level playing field. The #150 roster for each team really will be an accident of the players' birth year, but Coen and Tavani each have demonstrated that he is deserving of coaching this game.

Tavani will be coaching that game next year no matter what happens.... short of running somebody over.

[heath]

Tavani will be coaching that game next year no matter what happens.... short of running somebody over.

most hope you're correct,and BTW, all in the league hope he coaches for years to come. I will be at that game alsoxthumbsupx

[CFBfan]

Tavani is "one of the good guy's"

[RichH2]

He is indeed CFB, altho dont tell P4L I said so. However, they are right that he is not a good game coach.

[Pard4Life]

I'm curious: Lehigh losses major pieces on offense and defense, so why do you think they will not miss a beat?

Go Gate is realistic that Colgate may have some issues... Lehigh?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm curious: Lehigh losses major pieces on offense and defense, so why do you think they will not miss a beat?

Go Gate is realistic that Colgate may have some issues... Lehigh?

I did say things to me looked wide open...

[RichH2]

LU may be very good or very inconsistent. Lots of new faces to replace superb players. Will they be good enuf? Who knows. Gate has best qb but also lots of questions. Heck, if Bison qb has finally learned how to play qb and OL mans up they could win.

[DFW HOYA]

He is indeed CFB, altho dont tell P4L I said so. However, they are right that he is not a good game coach.

Frank Tavani is a good game coach... inasmuch as how far as Mickey Fein's offense takes them. When Mike Faragalli was at the helm the Leopards' passing offense was ranked near the top every season.


I did say things to me looked wide open...
Wide open among the top two, that is, with two in the discussion and two more on the schedule.

The interesting storyline is whether Fordham will continue to muddle along, or absolutely punish opponents with their talent advantage. It could open up some eyes about what to do with scholarships.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The interesting storyline is whether Fordham will continue to muddle along, or absolutely punish opponents with their talent advantage. It could open up some eyes about what to do with scholarships.

How much of this is perception instead of reality? Literally the only opponent the Rams have "absolutely punished" over the last two years was D-II Lock Haven. Don't get me wrong, Fordham is a good team, but last year they would have been middle-of-the-pack in the PL standings, and their games against Georgetown, Holy Cross and Bucknell were all determined by a touchdown or less. Heck, they even lost to Bucknell.

[CFBfan]

How much of this is perception instead of reality? Literally the only opponent the Rams have "absolutely punished" over the last two years was D-II Lock Haven. Don't get me wrong, Fordham is a good team, but last year they would have been middle-of-the-pack in the PL standings, and their games against Georgetown, Holy Cross and Bucknell were all determined by a touchdown or less. Heck, they even lost to Bucknell.

It was Mooreheads 1st season, with a NEW staff!! It will be much different in the Bronx this year (imo), the guy is a good coach! he knows what he's doing.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Assuming the grounds crew remembers to level the pitching mound!

Double secret inside information: Exercising its "home team" prerogative, Lafayette has insisted that the pitcher's mound remain in place - there's a trick play in the works where Deuce Gruden throws a 60 yard TD pass from that spot. xcoffeex

[Pard4Life]

Future Lafayette schedules have been released... the series with Delaware is indeed taking place: at UD in 2015 and at LC in 2016. We also have WM in 2015.

But we have a Lehigh-like schedule in 2014... not happy.

And only 8 games scheduled so far in 2016... two are OOCs vs. UD and at Princeton.

2014: 1 Ivy - Harvard
2015: 2 Ivy - Harvard, Princeton
2016: 1 Ivy - Princeton

And only one Ivy home game in four years, including this year... vs. Princeton 2015.

Not happy about that either... because those games draw fans.

[RichH2]

Just be thankful your AD actually releases future schedules. LU doesn't.

[carney2]

Future Lafayette schedules have been released... the series with Delaware is indeed taking place: at UD in 2015 and at LC in 2016. We also have WM in 2015.

But we have a Lehigh-like schedule in 2014... not happy.

And only 8 games scheduled so far in 2016... two are OOCs vs. UD and at Princeton.

2014: 1 Ivy - Harvard
2015: 2 Ivy - Harvard, Princeton
2016: 1 Ivy - Princeton

And only one Ivy home game in four years, including this year... vs. Princeton 2015.

Not happy about that either... because those games draw fans.

Pennsylvania has not reappeared. Very strange.

[Pard4Life]

Just be thankful your AD actually releases future schedules. LU doesn't.

We lobbied intensely because we like to discuss and debate our road dining establishments well in advance.

[Pard4Life]

Pennsylvania has not reappeared. Very strange.

Disappointing since they are local and always have large draws... 13,000 at Franklin and we topped 10,000 at Fisher on a non-event weekend.

We've had long stretches without them before, but I'd bet it's because we beat them, they avoid us. Happened to Lehigh supposedly.

[RichH2]

We lobbied intensely because we like to discuss and debate our road dining establishments well in advance. lol and an idea w have to try with our AD

[Pard4Life]

According to CFB Warehouse, our longest break from Penn was 12 years... 1947-1959. But on average, we didn't play them for 5-7 years whenever there is a series break. We didn't meet them from 2003-2006 either.

This the longest stetch without Columbia since 1945-1965.

[bison137]

I think Gilmore could feel some heat if HC endures another losing season. Outside of 2009 the Crusaders have been stuck in mediocrity.

I'd Go...

1. Susan - He has to show improvement, granted they did manage 6-5 in 2011...
2. Moorhead - given all the money being pumped into the program a losing season would not be welcomed
3. Gilmore - Is he really the guy to take HC to the next level?
4. Coen - losing seasons simply aren't accepted
5. Tavani - what are the real expectations? This is a program that has won more than 9 games once in the last 50 years...
6. Kelly - 8-3 in 2011 should grant him a 5 year reprieve
7. Biddle - will decide when he steps down...



Not sure how "heat" is defined, but I don't think Susan's job is in any jeopardy at all this year. Having said that, I expect a much better season this year - a lot better than many of the predictions.

[RichH2]

Not sure how "heat" is defined, but I don't think Susan's job is in any jeopardy at all this year. Having said that, I expect a much better season this year - a lot better than many of the predictions.

Will OL give him protection and if so has he learned how to be aQB not just an athlete. IF yes ,BU will be in the mix. Heck, at this point we all are in the mix. Nice pickup with the Navy LB

[carney2]

Disappointing since they are local and always have large draws... 13,000 at Franklin and we topped 10,000 at Fisher on a non-event weekend.

We've had long stretches without them before, but I'd bet it's because we beat them, they avoid us. Happened to Lehigh supposedly.

I'd be disappointed in all concerned it the "we beat them" thing enters into this. The Pards have won 5 of the last 6, but they've all been openers for Penn while Lafayette was playing its 2nd or 3rd game. Perhaps scheduling and getting away from that 1st week thing was a problem. Best bet is that Penn is leading the Ivy league into the 21st century. They seem to be expanding their scheduling options. Only 3 OOCs allowed and one seems to be dedicated to in-city Villanova. A second may be heading for expanded horizons, given the home and home with William & Mary. That leaves very little wiggle room. Still, to be stuck on 90 for the foreseeable future seems just wrong in so many ways.

ED. - The Quackers are supposedly playing the following OOCs in 2014:

Villanova - I'm thinking this is a fixture from here on
Jacksonville - Not CAA quality, but certainly a geographical stretch for an Ivy. Also, may help recruiting.
Fordham - No way to take this but a slap in the face for Lafayette.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'd be disappointed in all concerned it the "we beat them" thing enters into this.

There is historic precedent.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Not sure how "heat" is defined, but I don't think Susan's job is in any jeopardy at all this year. Having said that, I expect a much better season this year - a lot better than many of the predictions.

Bucknell has had very good defensive players in the past but it hasn't translated into many wins. 6-5 does seem possible given the schedule...

[colorless raider]

I'd be disappointed in all concerned it the "we beat them" thing enters into this. The Pards have won 5 of the last 6, but they've all been openers for Penn while Lafayette was playing its 2nd or 3rd game. Perhaps scheduling and getting away from that 1st week thing was a problem. Best bet is that Penn is leading the Ivy league into the 21st century. They seem to be expanding their scheduling options. Only 3 OOCs allowed and one seems to be dedicated to in-city Villanova. A second may be heading for expanded horizons, given the home and home with William & Mary. That leaves very little wiggle room. Still, to be stuck on 90 for the foreseeable future seems just wrong in so many ways.

ED. - The Quackers are supposedly playing the following OOCs in 2014:

Villanova - I'm thinking this is a fixture from here on
Jacksonville - Not CAA quality, but certainly a geographical stretch for an Ivy. Also, may help recruiting.
Fordham - No way to take this but a slap in the face for Lafayette.

Hey, they won't play the Gate anymore.

[carney2]

There is historic precedent.

And this is based on firm statements from responsible people or myths and hearsay? If the former I'd like chapter and verse, please.

[carney2]

Bucknell has had very good defensive players in the past but it hasn't translated into many wins. 6-5 does seem possible given the schedule...

There are only 3 eminently winnable games on the schedule (Marist, Sacred heart, VMI). Beyond that, they'd have to bat 1.000 in the 50/50 games (Cornell, Georgetown) plus ambush at least one someone else. I'm going with your "possible," but not substituting a "probable."

[RichH2]

OK, math wizards, is there any way all teams could wind up 3-3..... just saying

[Engineer86]

OK, math wizards, is there any way all teams could wind up 3-3..... just saying

No, but not based on a mathematical review :D

[Go...gate]

Hey, they won't play the Gate anymore.

Amazing how Penn stopped playing us the year after we had a turnaround season. They beat us 1996, 38-7 (first game Ryan Vena ever appeared in), which was the last loss of Colgate's 18-game losing streak (1994-96). We finished that season 6-5, which was biggest turnaround in all of Division I that year. Penn was supposed to have another home-and-home with us in 1997 and 1998 but backed out. The word is they won't play us even if all the games are at Franklin Field.

[ngineer]

Disappointing since they are local and always have large draws... 13,000 at Franklin and we topped 10,000 at Fisher on a non-event weekend.

We've had long stretches without them before, but I'd bet it's because we beat them, they avoid us. Happened to Lehigh supposedly.

Yes. I remember Lembo telling me back in 2004 that Penn was dropping us because they were adding Villanova and Bagnoli didn't want to play both 'nova and us since he got a substantial bonus for winning 7 games or more. We had a great game with them in 03 or 04 that we lost real close down at Franklin Field. Crowd was about 20,000. Great atmosphere. They should be playing us at least 7 our to ten years, as with Princeton. Backyard rivalries are the best.

[ngineer]

lol and an idea w have to try with our AD

While they don't publish, I have been able to call the office and find out over the phone when I'm planning something long range in the fall and don't want to conflict with a home game.

[RichH2]

Yes. I remember Lembo telling me back in 2004 that Penn was dropping us because they were adding Villanova and Bagnoli didn't want to play both 'nova and us since he got a substantial bonus for winning 7 games or more. We had a great game with them in 03 or 04 that we lost real close down at Franklin Field. Crowd was about 20,000. Great atmosphere. They should be playing us at least 7 our to ten years, as with Princeton. Backyard rivalries are the best.
+1 and I really detest Penn.

[CHIP72]

Yes. I remember Lembo telling me back in 2004 that Penn was dropping us because they were adding Villanova and Bagnoli didn't want to play both 'nova and us since he got a substantial bonus for winning 7 games or more. We had a great game with them in 03 or 04 that we lost real close down at Franklin Field. Crowd was about 20,000. Great atmosphere. They should be playing us at least 7 our to ten years, as with Princeton. Backyard rivalries are the best.

To be fair to Penn, this is where the Ivy League's idiotic policy of not participating in the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs becomes problematic. If Al Bagnoli has an incentive to win 7 games per season, then he/Penn has less incentive to play a stronger non-conference schedule. However, if the Ivy League participated in the playoffs, and their teams could earn home games or seeded positions (I realize the latter is unlikely) if a team has a great season, then Penn (and the other Ivy League teams) would have more incentive to play quality non-conference schedules to boost their perceived power ranking.

Incidentally, I agree 100% with rivalries with nearby teams always being the best, at pretty much every level of competition. Easton/Phillipsburg wouldn't be one of the great high school rivalries (and Thanksgiving Day traditions) anywhere in the country if the two towns weren't across the Delaware River from one another. Lehigh/Lafayette (or Lafayette/Lehigh if you prefer) wouldn't be one of the top 5-10 college football rivalries (IMO) and the most-played college football series if both teams weren't both in the Lehigh Valley and share/compete for media coverage. The Eagles and Giants wouldn't be one of the top NFL rivalries if Philadelphia and New York weren't less than 100 miles apart. Having some of the opposing team's fans at your team's home game, or interacting with fans of your team's rival on a regular basis because both teams/schools are located nearby adds some extra energy to a rivalry that isn't there when two teams in the same league but not geographically close to one another play each other.

[DFW HOYA]

Incidentally, I agree 100% with rivalries with nearby teams always being the best, at pretty much every level of competition. Easton/Phillipsburg wouldn't be one of the great high school rivalries (and Thanksgiving Day traditions) anywhere in the country if the two towns weren't across the Delaware River from one another. Lehigh/Lafayette (or Lafayette/Lehigh if you prefer) wouldn't be one of the top 5-10 college football rivalries (IMO) and the most-played college football series if both teams weren't both in the Lehigh Valley and share/compete for media coverage. The Eagles and Giants wouldn't be one of the top NFL rivalries if Philadelphia and New York weren't less than 100 miles apart. Having some of the opposing team's fans at your team's home game, or interacting with fans of your team's rival on a regular basis because both teams/schools are located nearby adds some extra energy to a rivalry that isn't there when two teams in the same league but not geographically close to one another play each other.

Local rivalries are great...when they exist. A lot of schools don't have nearby opponents to build up such a rivalry.

[CHIP72]

Local rivalries are great...when they exist. A lot of schools don't have nearby opponents to build up such a rivalry.

No doubt that's true. What's also true IMO is that when there is an opportunity to create a rivalry with a nearby, non-conference opponent, you work to create it, even if the two schools have quite different missions academically. I personally like the fact that Georgetown and Howard have been playing each other annually in football; IMO those two schools SHOULD be playing one another. Likewise, I'm perpetually critical of (especially) Georgetown and Maryland and to a lesser degree George Washington and George Mason for not working to annually schedule one another (along with American and Howard) in college basketball. The DC area schools, especially the major schools, should be playing each other every year in the non-conference schedule, and IMO the fans lose out on a game or games that would generate a lot of interest when those games aren't played. Just because John Thompson Jr. and Gary Williams were small-minded doesn't mean Georgetown and Maryland need to remain small-minded in college basketball.

[RichH2]

While they don't publish, I have been able to call the office and find out over the phone when I'm planning something long range in the fall and don't want to conflict with a home game.

Thanks , n I'll try them.

[DFW HOYA]

No doubt that's true. What's also true IMO is that when there is an opportunity to create a rivalry with a nearby, non-conference opponent, you work to create it, even if the two schools have quite different missions academically. I personally like the fact that Georgetown and Howard have been playing each other annually in football; IMO those two schools SHOULD be playing one another. Likewise, I'm perpetually critical of (especially) Georgetown and Maryland and to a lesser degree George Washington and George Mason for not working to annually schedule one another (along with American and Howard) in college basketball. The DC area schools, especially the major schools, should be playing each other every year in the non-conference schedule, and IMO the fans lose out on a game or games that would generate a lot of interest when those games aren't played. Just because John Thompson Jr. and Gary Williams were small-minded doesn't mean Georgetown and Maryland need to remain small-minded in college basketball.

FWIW:

1. Howard backed out of a series with Georgetown not once but twice. The original four year series was cut off in 2009 and a one game series was not renewed by Howard in 2011. (They didn't even bring the band to the game at Georgetown.)

The series were not popular with Howard fans and the last game at HU drew just 1,891--that was the third smallest Georgetown road game of any kind since 2000. There is a constituency there at HU which doesn't like scheduling non-HBCU's and only wants a non-HBCU opponent if there is a guarantee game involved. Instead of Georgetown, Howard scheduled Div. II Morehouse.

The lack of any local games is endemic--Maryland has played Navy twice since 1965.

2. If the PL was really serious about things, they'd select LFN as assistant commissioner and he could go to BU, Loyola and (yes...) American and get them to commit to football. Nickerson Field? Check. The new lacrosse stadium at Loyola? Check. Reeves Field? Not much better than the MSF, but if you want a tailor-made rivalry game in DC, there you go.

3. Basketball wise, Georgetown-Maryland is coming sooner rather than later. Georgetown isn't playing Syracuse anymore, Maryland is persona non grata among the the ACC, and both teams could use the game. George Mason and GW are now in the same conference, so that's going to happen.

[Sader87]

The lack of a true league rival (be they close geographically or not) in football is one of the myriad of things that have left HC fans cold (in many quarters) to the Patriot League.

BU would be nice but I very much doubt they will reinstitute football. Our football rival should be Colgate based on history, institutional similarities, geography-somewhat....but for whatever reason, the PL has never fostered this.

[carney2]

Our football rival should be Colgate based on history, institutional similarities, geography-somewhat....but for whatever reason, the PL has never fostered this.

Not close enough to either situation to know if this is true or even close to true, BUT the Patriot League continues to waste that final weekend of the season by only encouraging one rivalry game. I know that there are seven teams and someone would always be left out, but Bucknell is playing freakin' VMI on that day this year. That is way beyond absurd.

[Engineer86]

The lack of a true league rival (be they close geographically or not) in football is one of the myriad of things that have left HC fans cold (in many quarters) to the Patriot League.

BU would be nice but I very much doubt they will reinstitute football. Our football rival should be Colgate based on history, institutional similarities, geography-somewhat....but for whatever reason, the PL has never fostered this.

Why does the League have to "foster" this? The schools should do that. if it were not for Lafayette, Colgate would be the game in the league. Are you looking for that game to be the last week of the season? I can't imagine that would be tough to convince them to do. Please don't tell me they won't because they are protecting the LvL game. I am not buying that.

[DFW HOYA]

Please don't tell me they won't because they are protecting the LvL game. I am not buying that.

For the Lehigh Valley fans that would not consider the league might not give Holy Cross-Colgate or even Georgetown-Fordham (a series which dates to 1890) the same kind of "most favored nation" status in scheduling that the Leh/Laf game gets, take a look at Holy Cross' opponents on the last game of the regular season since 2000. How do you build up interest for games with scheduling like this?

2000,01: Fordham
2002,03: Colgate
2004: Georgetown
2005: Bucknell
2006,07,08: Colgate
2009,10: Bucknell
2011: Fordham
2012,13: Georgetown

as opposed to Lehigh's last regular season game:

2000,01: Lafayette
2002,03: Lafayette
2004: Lafayette
2005: Lafayette
2006,07,08: Lafayette
2009,10: Lafayette
2011: Lafayette
2012,13: Lafayette

[RichH2]

Why does the League have to "foster" this? The schools should do that. if it were not for Lafayette, Colgate would be the game in the league. Are you looking for that game to be the last week of the season? I can't imagine that would be tough to convince them to do. Please don't tell me they won't because they are protecting the LvL game. I am not buying that.

+1 Agree if you want it get it from PL. Doubt PL will care one way or the other.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Those 2006, 2007, 2008 season-ending games with Holy Cross and Colgate were some pretty big games, and I think those were actively planned by the Cross. Why they were not continued as the season-ending game, though, I cannot say. Certainly it requires both teams to want it to happen.

[Sader87]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but one wonders why the two schools with the longest uninterrupted status of D1 football (Holy Cross and Colgate) are not paired as rivals....hmmmm????

[Fordham]

I was told that we pushed for Gtown as our consistent final game of the year and the league said no. That was a few years back and definitely second hand so take it fwiw.

[RichH2]

I was told that we pushed for Gtown as our consistent final game of the year and the league said no. That was a few years back and definitely second hand so take it fwiw.

Did GU also push for it. If not that is why request turned down,my guess.

[crusader11]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but one wonders why the two schools with the longest uninterrupted status of D1 football (Holy Cross and Colgate) are not paired as rivals....hmmmm????

Whoa, didn't know that...pretty cool.

Isn't Femovich and her crew down in Pennsy responsible for organizing the league schedules? It's not like HC and Colgate could just decide to have their final game every year come against one another, right?

HC and Colgate have had some great games ever since Gilmore came to The Cross, and I can tell you that -- from the player's perspective -- the Colgate game is probably the most looked forward to league game every year.

[crusader11]

Please don't tell me they won't because they are protecting the LvL game. I am not buying that.

I am 100% buying that, and I suspect some others may be, as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FWIW I'm a huge fan of having a "Rivalry Weekend" the last weekend of the season with PL teams. I'm also no purist; I'd love to see one game Thursday night, one game Friday night, one game with a 12PM kickoff on Saturday, and the final one at 3:30 on Saturday. I'm sure that's unrealistic, but certainly some combination of day/night games would seem to be possible, or even a Thursday or Friday game. What could CBS Sports Network possibly have that day that would be at issue with a Thursday or Friday night game?

[RichH2]

I am 100% buying that, and I suspect some others may be, as well.

Ok, I'll bite ,protect it from what? Why would either care at all who any other school is playing that weekend? Unlikely to impact us at all. Relevance? Heck game is sold out regardless of teams' records.there are many games with more nat'l and FCS significance on that weekend none of which deter LU and LC fans from focusing on our game. If you want to find out why you dont have a rivalry game look to your own AD not us.

[DFW HOYA]

FWIW I'm a huge fan of having a "Rivalry Weekend" the last weekend of the season with PL teams. I'm also no purist; I'd love to see one game Thursday night, one game Friday night, one game with a 12PM kickoff on Saturday, and the final one at 3:30 on Saturday. I'm sure that's unrealistic, but certainly some combination of day/night games would seem to be possible, or even a Thursday or Friday game. What could CBS Sports Network possibly have that day that would be at issue with a Thursday or Friday night game?

Do you really want to play Lafayette on a Thursday night if CBS Sports wanted it that way?

[van]

Do you really want to play Lafayette on a Thursday night if CBS Sports wanted it that way?

We would love to beat them any day of the week!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Do you really want to play Lafayette on a Thursday night if CBS Sports wanted it that way?

Selfishly, I'd love it to always be at 12:37 on the third weekend in November. But is that the best way to get a large audience to see it? Saturday at 12:37 it's going to be head-to-head with Penn State/Purdue or something like that. If it's Friday night at 7:00PM it would basically have the evening to itself.

Now, Tuesday/Wednesday, that's beyond the pale IMO, but I also think there should be some balance in "The Rivalry" between allowing it to be seen by many and preserving the many traditions with it.

[RichH2]

Dont see any real problem with an occasional Thurs for nat'l TV. Makes for a longer weekend...lol

[DFW HOYA]

In TV, be careful what you wish for.

Television protects some rivalries on certain weekends (Texas-Oklahoma, Alabama-Tennessee), but very few. Stanford-Cal was moved off its traditional weekend, as was Michigan-Ohio State and USC-UCLA. If ESPN wants Duke-North Carolina or Oregon-Oregon State in week nine instread of week 12, week nine is where it'll eventually end up.

Lafayette and Lehigh fans are hesitant to admit up front that their rivalry game is indeed protected by the Patriot League, it just is, just as Harvard-Yale or W&M-Richmond gets protection. But when TV gets involved, it's going to dictate terms which work to its benefit. As such, no one should be surprised if the Leh/Laf game at Yankee Stadium gets some unusual start time (11:00 am?) that will cause indigestion among the Lehigh Valley set.

[crusader11]

Rich, I think that the PL looks to protect the L vs. L rivalry, and doesn't want there to be any competition for it (not that I think HC v. Colgate would threaten this rivalry at all, but having another staunch rivalry in the league may divert a little bit of attention from it).

If HC and Colgate both requested that its game come in the final weekend of the season, would the Patriot League allow it?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Rich, I think that the PL looks to protect the L vs. L rivalry, and doesn't want there to be any competition for it (not that I think HC v. Colgate would threaten this rivalry at all, but having another staunch rivalry in the league may divert a little bit of attention from it).

If HC and Colgate both requested that its game come in the final weekend of the season, would the Patriot League allow it?

The PL could care less. There's nothing to "protect". Lehigh vs Lafayette has national reach but only local appeal. What happens outside of a tiny bubble means nothing.

[RichH2]

Well, if true,it is asinine. Be a long time before any other rivalry would reach same status and so what if they do. Rivalry there before PL does not need PL to protect it. If that is PL plan, it s/b changed. Unnecessary and hurt developement of in league rivalries.

[crusader11]

The PL could care less.

Really?

[DFW HOYA]

If the PL doesn't care, see what happens when someone proposes rotating Leh-Laf through the weekly schedules like HC-Colgate does.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Really?

Absolutely. The only thing the league does is ensure the game is the final weekend each year. To suggest there's more than that is, imo, lunacy. There's no such conspiracy theory with Montana vs MSU out here.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How much does the league get into it at all? Isn't it basically up to the two parties? I doubt l
Lehigh or Lafayette consulted Colgate about moving 150 to Yankee stadium. Nor does it much affect them.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If the PL doesn't care, see what happens when someone proposes rotating Leh-Laf through the weekly schedules like HC-Colgate does.

Playing a game on a traditional weekend goes on in every sport thinkable. That has nothing to do with the league repressing other match-ups.

[Southsider]

BTW, was my wife and I stopped at The Cup for an ice cream Sunday evening. While gazing into the Lehigh Bookstore window, I noticed they had maroon Lafayette T-shirts on the rack. ( no, they were not the ususal Lafayette Sucks kind). What's up with that?

[Pard4Life]

BTW, was my wife and I stopped at The Cup for an ice cream Sunday evening. While gazing into the Lehigh Bookstore window, I noticed they had maroon Lafayette T-shirts on the rack. ( no, they were not the ususal Lafayette Sucks kind). What's up with that?

It has to be a new version... we have "Lehigh shirts" in our bookstore... I think their concepts are pretty lame. The custom shirts are much more creative.

[Pard4Life]

Why don't you ask your ADs on why HC-Colgate is not an annual rivalry? I don't know... maybe because you're not committed to being rivals, or there's no history like Laf-Lehigh. Our rivalry is older than the league and we control its relevance, not the PL...

[ngineer]

It has to be a new version... we have "Lehigh shirts" in our bookstore... I think their concepts are pretty lame. The custom shirts are much more creative.

I think both schools have the same style in each other's colors with the name of the 'rival' on the front, and then on the back "For those who couldn't get into 'insert the home school here". Decades old but still trotted out every year.

[Engineer86]

Ok, I'll bite ,protect it from what? Why would either care at all who any other school is playing that weekend? Unlikely to impact us at all. Relevance? Heck game is sold out regardless of teams' records.there are many games with more nat'l and FCS significance on that weekend none of which deter LU and LC fans from focusing on our game. If you want to find out why you dont have a rivalry game look to your own AD not us.


If the PL doesn't care, see what happens when someone proposes rotating Leh-Laf through the weekly schedules like HC-Colgate does.

For what purpose. Does that prove a point? This game would be a rilvary on any day. Tradition keeps it on the last week. No one attending or watching the game cares who else is playing

[Engineer86]

Ok, I'll bite ,protect it from what? Why would either care at all who any other school is playing that weekend? Unlikely to impact us at all. Relevance? Heck game is sold out regardless of teams' records.there are many games with more nat'l and FCS significance on that weekend none of which deter LU and LC fans from focusing on our game. If you want to find out why you dont have a rivalry game look to your own AD not us.


BTW, was my wife and I stopped at The Cup for an ice cream Sunday evening. While gazing into the Lehigh Bookstore window, I noticed they had maroon Lafayette T-shirts on the rack. ( no, they were not the ususal Lafayette Sucks kind). What's up with that?

Go in and read the back of the shirt. I am currently wearing one. "Not everyone can get into Lehigh"

It is amazing how many Lafayette grads I get asking if I went there, or people who know I am a Lehigh person asking what is up with the Lafayette shirt

[Sader87]

]Why don't you ask your ADs on why HC-Colgate is not an annual rivalry[/B]? I don't know... maybe because you're not committed to being rivals, or there's no history like Laf-Lehigh. Our rivalry is older than the league and we control its relevance, not the PL...

Our AD is all blowns up sir.....

[Pard4Life]

Go in and read the back of the shirt. I am currently wearing one. "Not everyone can get into Lehigh"

It is amazing how many Lafayette grads I get asking if I went there, or people who know I am a Lehigh person asking what is up with the Lafayette shirt

Right. That's why those shirts are lame. Some are just obscene for the sake of being obscene, which I don't like. But I like creatively obscene. Like Bogie with photoshop.

[Pard4Life]

Word on the street is Lafayette at Temple in 2015 and at Army in 2016, 2018.

Temple is ok... headlining the Philly area. But I like Army mucho.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Word on the street is Lafayette at Temple in 2015 and at Army in 2016, 2018.

Temple is ok... headlining the Philly area. But I like Army mucho.

I hope it's true! The 'Pards would bring a hearty contingent to the 'Linc. Plus, 2-0 against the 'Pards makes for a great season!

[Pard4Life]

I hope it's true! The 'Pards would bring a hearty contingent to the 'Linc. Plus, 2-0 against the 'Pards makes for a great season!

Bogie is already pissed at Temple... some expressed interest that they'd rather face Lehigh, primarily for gate reasons... I'd imagine LC and LU would be similar draws.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Bogie is already pissed at Temple... some expressed interest that they'd rather face Lehigh, primarily for gate reasons... I'd imagine LC and LU would be similar draws.

Lehigh would bring a few more people imo. Even so, Lafayette is an upgrade over Fordham. Delaware and Lehigh do need to be added in the future.

Don't let a few clueless TU football fans paint the wrong picture. This is a good thing!

[Pard4Life]

Don't let a few clueless TU football fans paint the wrong picture.

You're right... I guess that's why they requested Lehigh.

It's smart... regional interest.

[Pard4Life]

Don't have my guide on hand but Temple and LC had a series running from the 50s through the 1970s.

[Go...gate]

Word on the street is Lafayette at Temple in 2015 and at Army in 2016, 2018.

Temple is ok... headlining the Philly area. But I like Army mucho.

West Point is a wonderful place to see a college football game.

[Go...gate]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but one wonders why the two schools with the longest uninterrupted status of D1 football (Holy Cross and Colgate) are not paired as rivals....hmmmm????

Bingo. Not to mention the long relationships between the schools in nearly every sport.

[Go...gate]

I was told that we pushed for Gtown as our consistent final game of the year and the league said no. That was a few years back and definitely second hand so take it fwiw.

That is another long-term "old-school" series that has a fine history. It seems like a great year-end matchup.

[Go...gate]

Whoa, didn't know that...pretty cool.

Isn't Femovich and her crew down in Pennsy responsible for organizing the league schedules? It's not like HC and Colgate could just decide to have their final game every year come against one another, right?

HC and Colgate have had some great games ever since Gilmore came to The Cross, and I can tell you that -- from the player's perspective -- the Colgate game is probably the most looked forward to league game every year.

HC and CU Alumni like it, too.

[RichH2]

owl,
Sent you a PM

[carney2]

Mentioning the Lafayette @ Temple game in August of 2015 will apparently put you on super double secret probation, so SHHHHHH. It is, however, somewhat confirmed on the Temple board, although Lafayette AD Bruce McCutcheon says no agreement is in place. In other words, I wouldn't go to the bank with this one just yet. Still, that means that, after playing a Lehigh-esque cupcake schedule in 2014, filled with NEC teams, things could really begin to ramp up.

The first three games in 2015 would/could be @ Temple, W&M, @ Delaware

The 2016 and 2018 games with Army are confirmed, but are not on the published future schedules in the Media Guide.

The one thing that we know for certain about 2015 is that Lafayette is actively seeking a "money game" for that year. Coach Tavani says that his perfect scenario would be to have that game on a Thursday in August with 10 days after that to get ready for the rest of the season. Hey, that sounds suspiciously like what we've heard in the Temple rumors, doesn't it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How many PL teams can be rumored to be playing Army? 5? 6? One thing that worries me is that I hear lots about other PL schools scheduling FBS teams in the future, but Lehigh is eerily quiet on any possibilities.

This may sound odd, but I'd really like for Lehigh to play UMass, assuming they manage to remain FBS. Maybe it' revenge for 1998, not sure, and UMass and Lehigh couldn't be more different, but for some reason it's an appealing matchup to me.

[RichH2]

LU mum on future FBS games. They had best be upgrading sched with good FCS. In the long run,sticking with current scheduling model will hurt LU football

[carney2]

How many PL teams can be rumored to be playing Army? 5? 6? One thing that worries me is that I hear lots about other PL schools scheduling FBS teams in the future, but Lehigh is eerily quiet on any possibilities.

This may sound odd, but I'd really like for Lehigh to play UMass, assuming they manage to remain FBS. Maybe it' revenge for 1998, not sure, and UMass and Lehigh couldn't be more different, but for some reason it's an appealing matchup to me.

PL teams seem to be lining up for Army. That is not a bad thing. I am concerned that Navy is not in this conversation anywhere.

Lafayette vs. Army in 2016 and 2018 is confirmed by the Lafayette coach and AD.

Lehigh just doesn't announce future schedules - ever. And, there seem to be no leaks from the AD's office. Frankly, I can understand the reluctance, given the crap schedules the Squawks are playing of late.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

PL teams seem to be lining up for Army. That is not a bad thing. I am concerned that Navy is not in this conversation anywhere.

Lafayette vs. Army in 2016 and 2018 is confirmed by the Lafayette coach and AD.

Lehigh just doesn't announce future schedules - ever. And, there seem to be no leaks from the AD's office. Frankly, I can understand the reluctance, given the crap schedules the Squawks are playing of late.

I haven't had time to look at Navy closely, but I thought they had existing deals with Delaware and Towson. I could be wrong about that.

[Gater]

Colgate finish with Holy Cross. I've email Colgate's AD about it in the past.

Lafayette vs. Temple article:
http://blogs.mcall.com/sports/2013/08/leopards-owls-fb-an-in-your-dreams-matchup.html

[DFW HOYA]

How many PL teams can be rumored to be playing Army? 5? 6?

Probably not 7. I'm sure GU can get another game with Marist instead. xbangx

[carney2]

I haven't had time to look at Navy closely, but I thought they had existing deals with Delaware and Towson. I could be wrong about that.

But not even a rumored connection to a PL school. To paraphrase Frank Tavani from a few years ago, "Aren't they a member of this League? Why do they ignore us?"

[CFBfan]

Colgate opens with NAVY next year.....

[CFBfan]

Colgate opens with NAVY next year.....

sorry....that's 2015 NOT 2014

[carney2]

Colgate opens with NAVY next year.....

Thank you. I shall stow away my torch and large signs, and cancel my march on Bancroft Hall.

[Sader87]

One of the scheduling oddities of all-time (imo) is how we've never played Navy in football. Given the long histories of football at both schools, their institutional similarities (Holy Cross has had a very strong Navy ROTC presence since WW2 and beyond) etc etc it seems strange that they've never met on the gridiron. Hopefully that will be rectified soon.

[Sandlapper Spike]

One of the scheduling oddities of all-time (imo) is how we've never played Navy in football. Given the long histories of football at both schools, their institutional similarities (Holy Cross has had a very strong Navy ROTC presence since WW2 and beyond) etc etc it seems strange that they've never met on the gridiron. Hopefully that will be rectified soon.

That is odd. I just looked at Navy's alltime football opponents list...Navy has played every Patriot League school except Holy Cross (though only one game against Fordham, which also surprised me). Brown appears to be the only Ivy League school Navy has never played in football.

[RichH2]

An answer of sorts from LU SID. LU is lining up FBS games for 15,16 and futher out. Specifics known only by AD,who is not yet divulging

[DFW HOYA]

An answer of sorts from LU SID. LU is lining up FBS games for 15,16 and futher out. Specifics known only by AD,who is not yet divulging

So who isn't lining up a game? Georgetown and....Bucknell?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Don't have my guide on hand but Temple and LC had a series running from the 50s through the 1970s.

Temple needs to keep ties with regional foes, even the FCS ones. I'm not a huge fan of these games but some of these teams will bring fans to the Linc and that's extremely important. A solid rotation of Villanova, Delaware, Lehigh and Lafayette would be a good thing.

[carney2]

Don't have my guide on hand but Temple and LC had a series running from the 50s through the 1970s.

In those days Temple was not a cut above. From 1958 thru 1969 they played in the Middle Atlantic Conference University Division which included Bucknell, Delaware, Gettysburg, Hofstra, Lafayette, Lehigh, Muhlenberg, Rutgers, Temple and West Chester. Despite conventional wisdom that says otherwise, Bill Cosby only lettered in football at Temple in one year - 1961. Things have changed.

[carney2]

So who isn't lining up a game? Georgetown and....Bucknell?

Can't see Bucknell missing the boat. As for Georgetown, I doubt if they are, or will be, a "counter," so it's a moot point.

[ngineer]

Word on the street is Lafayette at Temple in 2015 and at Army in 2016, 2018.

Temple is ok... headlining the Philly area. But I like Army mucho.

That's great if true. I remember sailing up the Hudson to Army many years ago. I hope we can resurrect some of these series.

[ngineer]

With the scholarships kicking in I would expect everyone to be adding and FBS game down the road. Some schedules are already locked through '14, so '15 and on would seem to be the focus. We had some great games with Navy back in the '80's pulling a great upset in '87 I believe. Great venue.

[bison137]

Can't see Bucknell missing the boat. As for Georgetown, I doubt if they are, or will be, a "counter," so it's a moot point.


You're right. Bucknell will not be missing this boat. Unfortunately two teams who they were talking to about games down the road were Penn State (local connection) and Rutgers (Susan's former team) - but now as Big 10 members they are apparently off the table. They will reportedly be playing both Army and Navy down the road.

[Pard4Life]

You're right. Bucknell will not be missing this boat. Unfortunately two teams who they were talking to about games down the road were Penn State (local connection) and Rutgers (Susan's former team) - but now as Big 10 members they are apparently off the table. They will reportedly be playing both Army and Navy down the road.

Penn State... your program's first game right?

LFN seems to think otherwise regarding the B10 exclusion... might not be definitive.

[RichH2]

P4L has a point , does seem that ban is not written in stone. Still PSU would be a once in a decade game. Think we all would like to get Rutgers on our shedules.

[Pard4Life]

P4L has a point , does seem that ban is not written in stone. Still PSU would be a once in a decade game. Think we all would like to get Rutgers on our shedules.

Right on Rutgers... I want that damn cannon back from Lehigh, you have kept it wrongly these past 60 years and fire it at games. Terrible.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

P4L has a point , does seem that ban is not written in stone. Still PSU would be a once in a decade game. Think we all would like to get Rutgers on our shedules.

Rutgers would easily defeat any PL team. They'd clobber anyone not named NDSU imo. There's A LOT of talent in NB these days. The PL really needs to stick to the Temple's, Army's, Buffalo's, UConn's of the world. Once you start messing with Rutgers, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, UVA etc. you're likely to be a highlight punch line.

Even Temple beat CAA champ Villanova 41-10 last year.

These games really aren't that glamorous.

[RichH2]

Right on Rutgers... I want that damn cannon back from Lehigh, you have kept it wrongly these past 60 years and fire it at games. Terrible.

Gee, had forgotten about that thread from yrs ago. Yup we do have cannon somewhere. The cannon that cheer squad was using not the same one.No inscription. The original was in lobby for yrs , then went upstairs somewhere.

[Andy]

We've got 2 games scheduled and he can't throw us a mention:

Corrigan said Army's future schedules could have a different look than in the recent past.
"Our goal is to play people that we look like, that have a similar-type mission that we do," Corrigan said. "As you look at that, be it Rice, be it Tulane, be it Duke, be it Wake Forest, playing some of our more traditional rivals with a Colgate or an Ivy or other Patriot League teams mixed in there, it's going very well. We are excited about that."

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130812/SPORTS36/308120322/-1/SPORTS

[Go...gate]

PL teams seem to be lining up for Army. That is not a bad thing. I am concerned that Navy is not in this conversation anywhere.

Lafayette vs. Army in 2016 and 2018 is confirmed by the Lafayette coach and AD.

Lehigh just doesn't announce future schedules - ever. And, there seem to be no leaks from the AD's office. Frankly, I can understand the reluctance, given the crap schedules the Squawks are playing of late.

Colgate at Navy in 2015.

[ngineer]

I'd like to see us renew acquaintances with Army, Navy, Temple, Rutgers, Virginia and some 'neighborly' CAA members down the road (Villanova, Delaware, Richmond and W &M). But adding a Duke, Vanderbilt, or Rice and Air Force would be cool, too. Playing Penn State should be a 'natural' for Bucknell every once and awhile due to proximity.

[carney2]

These games really aren't that glamorous.

Finally a vice of sanity in this wretched intellectual fairyland. This is not going to be a brave new world. It's going to be a slaughterhouse, and it's all about the money.

[RichH2]

Finally a vice of sanity in this wretched intellectual fairyland. This is not going to be a brave new world. It's going to be a slaughterhouse, and it's all about the money.

Of course it is and ego, other than locals ,like Temple and PL members Navy and Army. That said an occasional FBS will be nice. Rather for us to get better FCS OOC.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Finally a vice of sanity in this wretched intellectual fairyland. This is not going to be a brave new world. It's going to be a slaughterhouse, and it's all about the money.

If you're saying that more often than not the game will be losses, I agree. But in the PL's case there are frequently interesting potential matchups that can be rekindled from a different era.

Lehigh/Lafayette/Rutgers
Penn State/Bucknell
Holy Cross/BC
Fordham/BC
Colgate/Syracuse
Georgetown/Maryland

There's also, of course, Army, Navy, and some linkages with UConn andUMass. These games aren't of the Western Carolina@Alabama ilk.

[carney2]

If you're saying that more often than not the game will be losses, I agree. But in the PL's case there are frequently interesting potential matchups that can be rekindled from a different era.

Lehigh/Lafayette/Rutgers
Penn State/Bucknell
Holy Cross/BC
Fordham/BC
Colgate/Syracuse
Georgetown/Maryland

There's also, of course, Army, Navy, and some linkages with UConn andUMass. These games aren't of the Western Carolina@Alabama ilk.

Mr. Owlie, one of your own, and I are not saying that the games will be losses. We are saying that in the overwhelming majority of cases they will be monumental mismatches. There is a difference - a big difference. (And don't give me the Ap State-Michigan argument. How many of those can you come up with?)

And, "interesting" to who(m)? Certainly not to me, and certainly not to anyone who enjoys an entertaining, competitive football game. And certainly not to the ticket buyers from the "big kid" school in any of these matchups. My little intellectually oriented Patriot League school is gong to play State U.! Boolah boolah. It's simply for the money and for no other reason. If you and some of the others on this board yearn to get suckered in and pay $50/$60 per seat to "enjoy" this, be my guest. Personally I think it would be better to send a check to your athletic department and avoid the middle man. I have no desire to watch lil ole Lafayette get bashed by Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, just because they played back in leather helmet times.

On the other side of this coin, the athletic departments need the money, so it will happen. Just don't include me. And don't make it sound like a big deal. It isn't. Bucknell @ Penn State. Now there's a game the sporting world is clamoring to see. For me, that's why God invented television - and yard work after the first quarter.

[Sader87]

Intellectually I hear ya carney but given my druthers I'd rather Holy Cross play a BC or a UMass than a Central Connecticut St or Monmouth.

These FBS/$ games are really "can't lose" propositions imo...we're supposed to lose, get some cash in the process and a game like that gets the program/school some attention.

Not advocating for playing Alabama, Ohio St et. al. mind you but historically connected and/or like-minded FBS schools.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Would be interested to hear from Gate people as to how they feel. They actually have practical recent experience with this, including one game which was played recently vs. a nearby historic rival (Syracuse) and this season vs. a faraway unknown non-rival (Air Force).

[ngineer]

While I agree we should not succumb to the siren of the mega schools, "stepping up" and stretching oneself against a lesser FBS schools is good on occasion. A true competitor wants to measure himself against competition that is perceived to be better. That's why it's fun going up against Villanova, Delaware, Army, Navy, Temple, UMass etc. I think we should be upgrading our OOC to include schools from the CAA, SoCon, OVC, mixing in with a couple Ivies and one 'mid-level' FBS. Yes, we'll be favored to lose, but it won't be a 'gimme', and there's nothing greater than knocking off an opponent who everyone thought would handle you.

[RichH2]

While I agree we should not succumb to the siren of the mega schools, "stepping up" and stretching oneself against a lesser FBS schools is good on occasion. A true competitor wants to measure himself against competition that is perceived to be better. That's why it's fun going up against Villanova, Delaware, Army, Navy, Temple, UMass etc. I think we should be upgrading our OOC to include schools from the CAA, SoCon, OVC, mixing in with a couple Ivies and one 'mid-level' FBS. Yes, we'll be favored to lose, but it won't be a 'gimme', and there's nothing greater than knocking off an opponent who everyone thought would handle you.

Yup, common sense scheduling ,

[Gater]

I 100% support 'gate playing up. It's great for exposure. It certainly helps with recruiting and it helps offset costs. We beat a good Army team when I was there in the 80's and kept it close against Rutgers (and we were bad that year). I remember the games against Syracuse, Rutgers and Army vividly. Other games, not so much. We got crushed by #4 Syracuse. But it was fun to say that you played against Moose Johnston or McPherson (who was the runner-up in the Heisman the year Lockbaum finished third) or the All-American NT Ted Gregory. Colgate's Payton Award winner Kenny Gamble rushed for over 100 yards and some guys certainly held their own. I think the most important thing is it sets is a tone--that you will take on anyone. It's kind of freeing in a way and it certainly makes playing at a smaller division one school pretty cool. It also helps to be able to say to recruits, "Yes, Colgate is in the middle of nowhere and the home crowds won't be huge but you'll get to play at Vanderbilt and Army and Air Force." In many ways, these are the only games you can't lose.

[Go...gate]

Amen, Gater.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I 100% support 'gate playing up. It's great for exposure. It certainly helps with recruiting and it helps offset costs. We beat a good Army team when I was there in the 80's and kept it close against Rutgers (and we were bad that year). I remember the games against Syracuse, Rutgers and Army vividly. Other games, not so much. We got crushed by #4 Syracuse. But it was fun to say that you played against Moose Johnston or McPherson (who was the runner-up in the Heisman the year Lockbaum finished third) or the All-American NT Ted Gregory. Colgate's Payton Award winner Kenny Gamble rushed for over 100 yards and some guys certainly held their own. I think the most important thing is it sets is a tone--that you will take on anyone. It's kind of freeing in a way and it certainly makes playing at a smaller division one school pretty cool. It also helps to be able to say to recruits, "Yes, Colgate is in the middle of nowhere and the home crowds won't be huge but you'll get to play at Vanderbilt and Army and Air Force." In many ways, these are the only games you can't lose.

But the bigger schools have very little desire to play these games. The only reason I can tolerate Temple doing it is because we need butts in the seats. Thankfully, there's several FCS schools that can do just that. Granted, Fordham isn't one of them which is why playing the Rams makes ZERO sense.

I don't see what the redeeming quality was when you got hammered by Syracuse. Maybe ESPN made a funny joke?

[Engineer86]

While I agree we should not succumb to the siren of the mega schools, "stepping up" and stretching oneself against a lesser FBS schools is good on occasion. A true competitor wants to measure himself against competition that is perceived to be better. That's why it's fun going up against Villanova, Delaware, Army, Navy, Temple, UMass etc. I think we should be upgrading our OOC to include schools from the CAA, SoCon, OVC, mixing in with a couple Ivies and one 'mid-level' FBS. Yes, we'll be favored to lose, but it won't be a 'gimme', and there's nothing greater than knocking off an opponent who everyone thought would handle you.

I'll take some of this. Once in a while an FBS is fine, but I would rather just see us stretch the OOC

[Pard4Life]

Have to agree with Gater. It's a challenge and one that could possibly make you better than the road, as long as it's against a reasonable opponent.

FBS games distort the playoff selection process and impair your chances of getting a bid.

Playing Army is a good thing... alumni excitement and we have a shot. Should I mention we are 1-19 all-time and only win being 1940? Forget the Ivy curse...

[carney2]

Playing Army is a good thing... alumni excitement and we have a shot. Should I mention we are 1-19 all-time and only win being 1940? Forget the Ivy curse...

Checked with the gods. Princeton is a definite curse and the gods and godettes laugh their arses off every time the game is scheduled. Same for most of the other Ivys. Not so for Army. A quote from the god spokesman: "You're just in way over your heads and should expect to get kicked around like a can on a playground." I could not get him to commit on the new and very much unimproved Army however.

[Pard4Life]

Well said c2, but you have to look at some of those 80s games that were narrow losses. Heartbreaking loss in 1988.

[carney2]

Well said c2, but you have to look at some of those 80s games that were narrow losses. Heartbreaking loss in 1988.

Just another installment of that moral victory crap. I'm not buying that package anymore. Beat somebody. Win the freakin' game! No more going to the playoffs and putting up a good fight. Win or don't bother coming home.

There. It felt good to get that off my chest.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just another installment of that moral victory crap. I'm not buying that package anymore. Beat somebody. Win the freakin' game! No more going to the playoffs and putting up a good fight. Win or don't bother coming home.

There. It felt good to get that off my chest.

The problem is the playoff selection committee doesn't value wins or losses. It values "schedule strength", which is only realistically achieved by playing FBS teams.

Sadly they are becoming a prerequisite for any teams or conferences that want at-large teams in the playoffs. Prior playoff history won't do it. 10 D-I wins won't do it. Wins against Harvard won't do it.

[carney2]

The problem is the playoff selection committee doesn't value wins or losses. It values "schedule strength", which is only realistically achieved by playing FBS teams.

Sadly they are becoming a prerequisite for any teams or conferences that want at-large teams in the playoffs. Prior playoff history won't do it. 10 D-I wins won't do it. Wins against Harvard won't do it.

Wins against Monmouth, Central Connecticut and Columbia certainly won't do it.

[Engineer86]

Wins against Monmouth, Central Connecticut and Columbia certainly won't do it.

True but a win against Colgate would xlolx

I am not sure what Lehigh's scheduling plan is but theses game do not raise excitement

[RichH2]

True but a win against Colgate would xlolx

I am not sure what Lehigh's scheduling plan is but theses game do not raise excitement

Of the bunch Monmouth only one that may have legs. Upping their schollies , could develop to a nice series.

[carney2]

I am not sure what Lehigh's scheduling plan is but theses game do not raise excitement

Hopefully Sterrett is feeling the pressure and making some changes.

[RichH2]

Apparently he is but not divulging any clues, according to SID.

[Pard4Life]

Apparently he is but not divulging any clues, according to SID.

It appears Lehigh's strategy is to win as many games as possible by scheduling weaker opponents. Sure, you don't know how good each team will be each season, but let's say they are not increasing the probability that they will play a good team. UNH is really the only chance, and the rest are not likely.

However, last season's debacle may force Sterrett to change the philosophy. 10-1 from the PL most definitely should get you in the playoffs, but those ten wins were really not overwhelming... dare I say, not much better than a Pioneer-esque 10-1, at least in the eyes of the committee. Liberty was your only real shot last year... and they were not spectacular (though much better down the stretch). Ugh, tired of talking about 2012... start the games already... feels like September..

[DFW HOYA]

Which PL schools have have their athletic director making schedules?

[Bill]

FWIW - When asked back in May about upgrading the schedule (after a presentation on reunion weekend), one crowd member remarked that we should "upgrade the schedule"...perhaps play teams like Ball State. After a few chuckles in the room, Joe replied (paraphrasing) "why just Ball State? I think we can do a lot better than that". I am convinced that Lehigh is actively seeking to upgrade the schedule - but it will take time.

[Go...gate]

Which PL schools have have their athletic director making schedules?

Can't imagine any AD making schedules without (or in spite of) input from the head coach.

[Go...gate]

FWIW - When asked back in May about upgrading the schedule (after a presentation on reunion weekend), one crowd member remarked that we should "upgrade the schedule"...perhaps play teams like Ball State. After a few chuckles in the room, Joe replied (paraphrasing) "why just Ball State? I think we can do a lot better than that". I am convinced that Lehigh is actively seeking to upgrade the schedule - but it will take time.

Rice? Stanford? Duke?

[van]

Can't imagine any AD making schedules without (or in spite of) input from the head coach.

Interesting comment from Coach Biddle about Gate schedule this year, something like "they didn't do us any favor."

[RichH2]

We'll get more info next yr about 15 for LU.Probably not from LU but by scanning future scheds of other teams.xthumbsupx

[Pard4Life]

Which PL schools have have their athletic director making schedules?

I think Frank and McC actively sit down and work on it together.

[RichH2]

Standard practice AD sets all athletic scheds. Assume HCs have lots of input but decisions are with AD.Doubt,however,AD at Gate disagrees ery much with Biddle.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I remember Masella being not very happy with their schedule in his final season with the Rams, a brutal affair that involved 2 FBS teams (UConn and Army), and four home games, including two home games to close out the year. It was an 8-game stretch in the middle of the year with 7 on the road, with the unfortunate "snowstorm game" against Army in the middle of everything. I know he complained about it in media day, leading me to believe that it wasn't his choice to schedule Army in particular.

I think ADs win these battles involving FBS games more often than not. I don't think coaches like them much, but ADs like the $$$ they bring in, both directly and indirectly. I also think this isn't just a PL issue.

[Pard4Life]

I remember Masella being not very happy with their schedule in his final season with the Rams, a brutal affair that involved 2 FBS teams (UConn and Army), and four home games, including two home games to close out the year. It was an 8-game stretch in the middle of the year with 7 on the road, with the unfortunate "snowstorm game" against Army in the middle of everything. I know he complained about it in media day, leading me to believe that it wasn't his choice to schedule Army in particular.

I think ADs win these battles involving FBS games more often than not. I don't think coaches like them much, but ADs like the $$$ they bring in, both directly and indirectly. I also think this isn't just a PL issue.

Yes, ADs do pull the strings, but I seriously think McC and Tavani are equally involved in the process. Whenever they speak, they are essentially in concert and could practically finish each other's sentences on the issue. And when Frank has spoken alone, he lays out his philosophy and who he wants to play etc. For the most part, it comes to pass. But overall, it seems that McC works with all of the head coaches in this fashion and his rep around the department is well respected, despite what we in the Pardsville peanut gallery say.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yes, ADs do pull the strings, but I seriously think McC and Tavani are equally involved in the process. Whenever they speak, they are essentially in concert and could practically finish each other's sentences on the issue. And when Frank has spoken alone, he lays out his philosophy and who he wants to play etc. For the most part, it comes to pass. But overall, it seems that McC works with all of the head coaches in this fashion and his rep around the department is well respected, despite what we in the Pardsville peanut gallery say.

I could see that. Similarly, I get the impression Andy and Joe S. work on the schedules together. I guess it depends on the school, though. Maybe at Lehigh and Lafayette, it's more collaborative, and at, say, Colgate and Fordham it's more top-down.

To be fair, Colgate (Syracuse) and Fordham (Army) kind of had opportunities hoisted on them when they needed late fill-ins. You can only be in a position to change your schedule if Army or Syracuse is on the phone with you, asking if you can do it, so to a degree the "pressure" comes from the FBS schools themselves.

[Pards Rule]

What Biddle did was extremely impressive. That 1997 team was darn good, especially when you consider their schedule.

So in terms of eligible teams Lehigh had a 7 game swing in '98 and Colgate a 6 game improvement.

In 1980 - Neil Putnam's last year - the Pards went 3-7 and didnt score a TD in 6 of them including the last one a 32-0 snowball infused loss at home to Lehigh. Bill Russo took the team to 9-2 in 1981 - a 6 game swing and the team started setting scoring records in the first game alone, a 51-0 win.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

What's the status of BB? Rich posted a hurt hammy?

[Go...gate]

In 1980 - Neil Putnam's last year - the Pards went 3-7 and didnt score a TD in 6 of them including the last one a 32-0 snowball infused loss at home to Lehigh. Bill Russo took the team to 9-2 in 1981 - a 6 game swing and the team started setting scoring records in the first game alone, a 51-0 win.

Lost 44-0 in a snowstorm at Colgate. I was there.

[RichH2]

Teammate tweeted that BB threw a 70 yd TD ,hurt hammy after. Nothing else cept Happy B'days for BB. My guess not that ba. LU has a rash of hammys and concussions so far , none apparently serious.

From subsequent tweets not clear whether it was BB or the WR who hurt hammy. While I wish no one ill gonna hope it is the WR

[ngineer]

Teammate tweeted that BB threw a 70 yd TD ,hurt hammy after. Nothing else cept Happy B'days for BB. My guess not that ba. LU has a rash of hammys and concussions so far , none apparently serious.

From subsequent tweets not clear whether it was BB or the WR who hurt hammy. While I wish no one ill gonna hope it is the WR

Andy very positive on BB so far. Sounds very optimistic along with McHale showing nice strides.

[RichH2]

It was BB. Hopefully not serious

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It was BB. Hopefully not serious

Hopefully not. Pard4life will love this but I thought LU was fortunate by having 3 capable QB's, BB, McHale and Poutier. I thought even last year McHale looked the part more so than anyone from an athletic/build standpoint. BB, to me, resembled Borda a little more. Poutier was the small scrambling type.

Now Poutier is done for the year and BB MIGHT have an injury concern. Not having a game next week may prove to be a major blessing in disguise. Otherwise it seems like LU has faired pretty well injury/attrition wise.

[RichH2]

Poutier done? What happened?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Poutier done? What happened?

I thought he had knee surgery and was back in Arizona?

[RichH2]

California for GP. I'll try to find out.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

California for GP. I'll try to find out.

You were the one that posted it on the Lehigh board..lol...

"Hurt his knee over the summer. Went home for medical consult. Looks like surgery."

"Seems he hurt it earlier and had been rehabbing it but didn’t pass physical. If surgery ,he’s out for the year. My guess. Either way,it puts him to far back to really challenge now for 2-3 slot. McHale and Nick will battle it out"

[RichH2]

I had thought issue was resolved with rehab. Guess not.

[ngineer]

Coen very high on what Shafinsky has shown already. If he gets the playbook down, don't be surprised to see him get some time. He's definitely the 'future'.

[RichH2]

Coen very high on what Shafinsky has shown already. If he gets the playbook down, don't be surprised to see him get some time. He's definitely the 'future'.
True , but Andy not big on switchingQBs absent injury. If all close games like last yr, not likely he'll get much.

[van]

True , but Andy not big on switchingQBs absent injury. If all close games like last yr, not likely he'll get much.

Yep, problem with all the close games, back ups do not get and live time. Keeps us fans in the dark on their ability to step in. Thus our anx over the QB this year.

[carney2]

So, this is now the official Lehigh "Who Has A Boo-Boo" thread. And you must use Holy Cross basketball style initials and not names to participate. We have sunk pretty low.

[CFBfan]

So, this is now the official Lehigh "Who Has A Boo-Boo" thread. And you must use Holy Cross basketball style initials and not names to participate. We have sunk pretty low.

boo boo's and cupcakes.....they sort of go together

[van]

So, this is now the official Lehigh "Who Has A Boo-Boo" thread. And you must use Holy Cross basketball style initials and not names to participate. We have sunk pretty low.

Yep all Lehigh all the time, that's what happens when you win 5, soon to be 6 in a row! Admire the swagger and wish!

[RichH2]

Nice van, neither Hoyas or Pards should argue cupcakes until they can beat us on the field.

[Bogus Megapardus]

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7237/az8d.jpg

[Kramer]

Amen, Rich. But now that bogie has introduced a sheet cake, where do we go from here?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Amen, Rich. But now that bogie has introduced a sheet cake, where do we go from here?


Just waiting to finish cutting it up and distributing it to everyone in the PL. That way everyone gets a piece of cake.

[RichH2]

See Kramer fell into your setup. How long you been waiting to pop this one Bogie.

K

We just thank Bogie for the cake celebrating our superior team and wonder what flavor he will get us next yr.

Rich

[Kramer]

My current favorite cupcake is the one with maroon colored icing, and a nice "L" on it. It comes with three different wrappers, and the packaging is among the nicest in all of 1AA. The flavor is a little bitter and stale, though.

[RichH2]

My current favorite cupcake is the one with maroon colored icing, and a nice "L" on it. It comes with three different wrappers, and the packaging is among the nicest in all of 1AA. The flavor is a little bitter and stale, though.

and thats how you play with Bogie ( BTW,a great guy with an acerbic wit,) Just watch out when we get to November.xsmileyclapx

[van]

and thats how you play with Bogie ( BTW,a great guy with an acerbic wit,) Just watch out when we get to November.xsmileyclapx

either that or brush up on photoshop!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My current favorite cupcake is the one with maroon colored icing, and a nice "L" on it. It comes with three different wrappers, and the packaging is among the nicest in all of 1AA. The flavor is a little bitter and stale, though.

What was that gray and white wrapping two years ago, BTW?

[Pards Rule]

Lost 44-0 in a snowstorm at Colgate. I was there.

Gate - are you sure it was in Hamilton? That would mean away and away in 80-81. I know we were in Hamilton in 1981 as I listened (to the first half anyway) of a 30-0 loss (we were undefeated at that point). I will have to check on this.

[carney2]

What was that gray and white wrapping two years ago, BTW?

Wasn't that the most hideous football outfit you ever saw?!! Luckily, the "football" pretty much matched those clown suits so they (I hope) will never be seen again The folks at Oregon actually threw up when they saw it.

[carney2]

Gate - are you sure it was in Hamilton? That would mean away and away in 80-81. I know we were in Hamilton in 1981 as I listened (to the first half anyway) of a 30-0 loss (we were undefeated at that point). I will have to check on this.

1980: Colgate 44, Lafayette 0 played in Hamilton, NY

1981: Colgate 30, Lafayette 0 played in Easton, PA

Source: Lafayette 2013 Media Guide, Page 121

[Bogus Megapardus]

Pards @ Army in 2016 confirmed by Easton Express-Times:

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/lafayette/index.ssf/2013/08/lafayette_college_to_renew_foo.html

[DFW HOYA]

Pards @ Army in 2016 confirmed by Easton Express-Times:

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/lafayette/index.ssf/2013/08/lafayette_college_to_renew_foo.html

Well done, Lafayette.

Can we predict that six PL teams will have a I-A guarantee game by 2016?

[RichH2]

Seems likely DFW

[The Maestro]

Pards @ Army in 2016 confirmed by Easton Express-Times:

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/lafayette/index.ssf/2013/08/lafayette_college_to_renew_foo.html

Lets go Joe, time's a wast'n

[Fordham]

My apologies for inserting 2013 PL football into the discussion,:) but I'm very worried about our DL overall. We lost a few to graduation, lost a few to leaving school and never got that AZ def end transfer. Afraid we could be very susceptible to teams with some big ol hogs up front.