NCAA's report on Montana/Pflugrad

[Silenoz]

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2013/university+of+montana+public+infractions+report+ju ly+26%2C+2013

[Silenoz]

Griz mom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *shakes fist*

http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/2012/05/05/news/web_photos/05.1n005.hotdogs.c--525x415.jpg

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"The facts demonstrate that, following the arrest and release from jail of student-athletes 1 and 2, the head coach and the assistant coach learned that an athletics representative had provided bail bond, but failed to inform institutional officials. The receipt of bail bond was an extra benefit expressly prohibited under NCAA legislation as previously described..."

"As a result of this failure, during the fall of 2011, student-athlete 1 competed in two regular season contests and two postseason contests while ineligible and student-athlete 2 competed in three regular season contests and three postseason contests while ineligible."

Presented without comment.

[Silenoz]

And by "competed", they meant student 1 sat on the sidelines handing out water bottles, contemplating the fumble that cost us the playoffs in 2010 xnottalkingx

[Green26]

The out-of-state grandpa of one of the arrested players called the mom of another player (Missoula) and asked her to arrange to have bond posted for both players. The grandpa and mom were friends. She paid a total of $340 to a bail bondsman. The grandpa repaid the mom. The coaches and others heard that the mom had arranged for the bail. Apparently, it would have been okay if the money had been paid back in a day, but it was not repaid for a week or so. The head coach was cited for allowing this horrible violation to occur.

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

It's good to see we don't have a post season ban. The scholarship hit is going to hurt though. We play better with a chip on our shoulder, there is going to be a lot of intensity this season.

[uofmman1122]

So the only thing I don't understand is why Tru and Kemp were deemed ineligible in the first place...

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

So the only thing I don't understand is why Tru and Kemp were deemed ineligible in the first place...

I think it is because they accepted an improper benefit in the form of bail money.

[uofmman1122]

So because they didn't pay it back within 24 hours, and instead waited a week is the reason all that went down? Kind of nit-picky, but I see where they're coming from.

[uofmman1122]

Also, not gonna lie, as much as I like Pflu, he really dropped the ball on this whole thing. At BEST it was colossal laziness or incompetence on his part.

[Bisonator]

No doubt the NCAA is nit picky. Obviously the AD and coach at the time should have laid everything out at least to a compliance officer. I think the UM handled it as best they could once everything was out there. The Griz will bounce back no doubt!

I'm surprised the NCAA doesn't impose a post season ban on say Idaho State just to set an example! xlolx

[citdog]

Brock.....check your pm's

[catbob]

Also, not gonna lie, as much as I like Pflu, he really dropped the ball on this whole thing. At BEST it was colossal laziness or incompetence on his part.

I don't understand where everyone is getting this 24 hour thing. Per the NCAA report:

With regard to the two representatives' actions, first, representative 2 provided bail bond in the amount of $340 to secure the two student-athletes' release from the Missoula county detention facility. This action violated Bylaw 16.11.2.3-(b), which expressly forbids athletics representatives from providing "a guarantee of bond."

It doesn't matter if they got out and paid the person right then and there with cash in their pocket. The representative bailed them out, which is against NCAA rules.

The problem isn't that they were bailed out, it's who bailed them out. It doesn't matter if it was on the behalf of someone else.

[uofmman1122]

I see. I guess I've been reading eGriz too much. xoopsx

[catbob]

That is my interpretation, anyway.

It does say later in the report that:

Because institutional administrators were not aware of the student-athletes' eligibility issues, the institution did not request that the two student-athletes pay restitution in order to seek reinstatement from the NCAA prior to the student-athletes' participation in competition.

To me that reads that the two players could've repaid the debt for restitution, but still would have had to be reinstated by the NCAA. But they were still immediately ineligible once they received that bond benefit.

[RichH2]

"The facts demonstrate that, following the arrest and release from jail of student-athletes 1 and 2, the head coach and the assistant coach learned that an athletics representative had provided bail bond, but failed to inform institutional officials. The receipt of bail bond was an extra benefit expressly prohibited under NCAA legislation as previously described..."

"As a result of this failure, during the fall of 2011, student-athlete 1 competed in two regular season contests and two postseason contests while ineligible and student-athlete 2 competed in three regular season contests and three postseason contests while ineligible."

Presented without comment.
LFN check your twitter feed sent you article on Oday and Ryan's emails.

[Green26]

Also, not gonna lie, as much as I like Pflu, he really dropped the ball on this whole thing. At BEST it was colossal laziness or incompetence on his part.

I don't agree. He didn't know it was a violation or something that should be dealt with. He was dealing with much bigger issues at the time. The bailing out by a player's mom was minor in the greater scheme of things. Two of his players, and others, were saying that they had been mistreated by the police and had had racial stuff said to them. The team was upset. He had a big game coming up. He and the athletic dept were trying to determine the facts and decide what to do. Two black players from CA saying that they had been the subject of essentially police brutality and racial slurs (which is what their attorney was also saying). Audios from phone and grain videos were were listened to and watched. A parade of witnesses were heard. Decisions had to be made. Game-planning was in progress. Who would know that not repaying a $340 payment made by a player's mom to a bail bondsman in 24 hours, as opposed to a week or so, would be a big deal or ncaa violation. My god, what's a market interest rate on $340 for a week? 5% of $340 for year is $17, divided by 52 weeks, is about 30 cents. So these guys got a 30 cent benefit, and the ncaa thinks this is a major violation? Is the coach supposed to drop everything to determine whether mom is even a booster?

This incident was a huge deal to the team. When the team left the field after warm ups before the next game, Weber, they asked/demanded that the AD, Senior VP and President come meet with them in the meeting room. They wanted to know if the university reps believed and supported the players and team, or believed the police. The university reps said they believed the players. Had they not gotten this support, the season/team may have collapsed, is the view of some who were involved.

[Green26]

I don't understand where everyone is getting this 24 hour thing. Per the NCAA report:

With regard to the two representatives' actions, first, representative 2 provided bail bond in the amount of $340 to secure the two student-athletes' release from the Missoula county detention facility. This action violated Bylaw 16.11.2.3-(b), which expressly forbids athletics representatives from providing "a guarantee of bond."

It doesn't matter if they got out and paid the person right then and there with cash in their pocket. The representative bailed them out, which is against NCAA rules.

The problem isn't that they were bailed out, it's who bailed them out. It doesn't matter if it was on the behalf of someone else.

In the process, the ncaa said it would have been okay if it had been repaid in 24 hours.

[kdinva]

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/news.aspx?id=4612010

no mention of any post season ban.........

[clenz]

so when do wet get to host our semi final game?

quando omni flunkus moritati

[tribe_pride]

Looks like Weber is getting penalized too.

"Pflugrad, still in the Big Sky as an assistant coach at Weber State, will be suspended for the first game of the Wildcats' season on Aug. 31 and will not be allowed to recruit off-campus during the upcoming fall season. He also must attend an NCAA regional rules seminar next year."

[Mr. C]

Compared to Cam Newton and other stuff that the NCAA looked the other way at, this is truly small potatoes. What a waste of time. Is that the worst thing someone has on Robin Pflugrad?

[Green26]

Looks like Weber is getting penalized too.

"Pflugrad, still in the Big Sky as an assistant coach at Weber State, will be suspended for the first game of the Wildcats' season on Aug. 31 and will not be allowed to recruit off-campus during the upcoming fall season. He also must attend an NCAA regional rules seminar next year."

This isn't correct. He's restricted from off-campus recruiting for only the first 3 weeks of the fall 2013 contact period, according to the report.

Putting this in perspective, a one-game suspension is what the Idaho St coach Kramer got for pushing a kid in practice last season.

[Green26]

Compared to Cam Newton and other stuff that the NCAA looked the other way at, this is truly small potatoes. What a waste of time. Is that the worst thing someone has on Robin Pflugrad?

No kidding. A player's mom pays $340 to a bail bonding firm, at the request of the family of a player, and is promptly repaid. A law firm does a small amount of legal work on a criminal matter while it evaluates and sets up a possible contingency fee case, and the ncaa decides that is not proper (even though it would not be uncommon in situations like this). Some families, who are considered boosters by the ncaa, but who are not even known by the coach or the AD, adopt some kids and have them over to their houses for dinner supposedly too many times and do a few other small things for them. An athletic dept employee befriends a player who is struggling with the death of his dad, has him over to her house too supposedly too many times and does his laundry. A student helping out, who hasn't even played college football, is deemed by the ncaa to be performing coaching duties--even though this has been run by the compliance officer in advance. This is all the ncaa could find in 18 months? It looks the university doesn't hardly even fight the allegations, because they want to get it behind them or blame the former coach and AD.

[srgrizizen]

IMO, these penalties are deserved and not overly harsh. It's not an excuse, but how many other programs have complete confidence that their jock=sniffing fans are not guilty of just as much or worse? It seems to me, it's the successful programs whose overly rabid fans are most prone to this stuff, and they're hard to control.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

IMO, these penalties are deserved and not overly harsh. It's not an excuse, but how many other programs have complete confidence that their jock=sniffing fans are not guilty of just as much or worse? It seems to me, it's the successful programs whose overly rabid fans are most prone to this stuff, and they're hard to control.

I'm not saying that some aren't jock sniffing fans or that most teams don't have plenty of those but the real truth is most of this is stuff a good person would do for someone else they liked or were friends with.

[SeattleGriz]

I'm not saying that some aren't jock sniffing fans or that most teams don't have plenty of those but the real truth is most of this is stuff a good person would do for someone else they liked or were friends with.

Exactly, I would bail you out or provide you with free legal representation Ursus. xlolx

I completely agree with you as well. The majority of this is simply being civil to one another.

[Southern Bison]

Exactly, I would bail you out or provide you with free legal representation Ursus. xlolx

Are we starting another fundraising drive for UAH?

I'd leave SE174 in jail...he'd probably be enjoying it more than the Blue Oyster!

[BEAR]

The penalties, many self-imposed by the school, include a three-year probationary period, the loss of four scholarships in each of the next three seasons and vacating five wins in which ineligible players participated after receiving help with their legal problems that is not allowed under NCAA rules.

The vacated games include a 36-10 win over rival Montana State and FCS playoff wins over Central Arkansas and Northern Iowa. Montana won the Big Sky Conference title, finished 11-3 overall and advanced to the FCS semifinals before falling to Sam Houston State.

So does that mean we get to move on to the next round? xlolx

[AmsterBison]

I'm not saying that some aren't jock sniffing fans or that most teams don't have plenty of those but the real truth is most of this is stuff a good person would do for someone else they liked or were friends with.

That's exactly what I was thinking too. That's just how people watch out for each other.

Totally disagree with vacating wins.

[srgrizizen]

So does that mean we get to move on to the next round? xlolx

Someone please correct this if it's wrong, but I believe that none of the vacated wins can be claimed as victories by the opponent. Their records must show a loss, or simply a no-contest. Is that right?

[srgrizizen]

I'm not saying that some aren't jock sniffing fans or that most teams don't have plenty of those but the real truth is most of this is stuff a good person would do for someone else they liked or were friends with.

I see your point UAH. The NCAA rules may be stupidly strict, but supporters need to be educated about them until they are changed. Meanwhile, it's pretty tough for a program to control outsiders. But if you self report immediately as soon as you are aware of it, I doubt that the NCAA would be too harsh.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I see your point UAH. The NCAA rules may be stupidly strict, but supporters need to be educated about them until they are changed. Meanwhile, it's pretty tough for a program to control outsiders. But if you self report immediately as soon as you are aware of it, I doubt that the NCAA would be too harsh.

Agreed, just not sure that some of those infractions which most would consider just normal day to day life were even known to report. We agree on this though.

[BEAR]

Someone please correct this if it's wrong, but I believe that none of the vacated wins can be claimed as victories by the opponent. Their records must show a loss, or simply a no-contest. Is that right?

Yes, I know its not a win for UCA. It was failed humor on my part. The past is the past. The griz were a better team than a second year Bear team from Arkansas, ineligible players or not. Our record that year can say "L" or "V" for all I care. xrolleyesx xlolx

[mvemjsunpx]

Someone please correct this if it's wrong, but I believe that none of the vacated wins can be claimed as victories by the opponent. Their records must show a loss, or simply a no-contest. Is that right?

Regular-season opponents still retain the loss, while postseason opponents have the results erased entirely.

[BEAR]

Regular-season opponents still retain the loss, while postseason opponents have the results erased entirely.


What does that mean? How does it show up on the record book? Like I said, it doesn't matter NOW...but it would be interesting to see coach get his 100 wins....with actual Ws..if he needs one more game then I don't want to celebrate ONE GAME early. xlolx

[McNeese75]

What does that mean? How does it show up on the record book? Like I said, it doesn't matter NOW...but it would be interesting to see coach get his 100 wins....with actual Ws..if he needs one more game then I don't want to celebrate ONE GAME early. xlolx


Like it never happened xnodx

[clenz]

What does that mean? How does it show up on the record book? Like I said, it doesn't matter NOW...but it would be interesting to see coach get his 100 wins....with actual Ws..if he needs one more game then I don't want to celebrate ONE GAME early. xlolx
It's like the Joe Pa thing...the games for UCA and UNI never happened....

Both made the playoffs but never actually lost in them...apparently we just decided to quit playing at our respective rounds.

[Laker]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9514039/ex-montana-grizzlies-coach-robin-pflugrad-defends-program

[100%GRIZ]

I think U of M & president Royce Engstrom did a HUGE Mistake by firing Robin Pflugrad & AD Jim O'day. I also think Royce was a puppet to former US Senator Pat Williams in the firings. I can't wait for the day Engstrom is gone from UM.

[Silenoz]

It's like the Joe Pa thing...the games for UCA and UNI never happened....

Both made the playoffs but never actually lost in them...apparently we just decided to quit playing at our respective rounds.

Sounds accurate ;)


The whole thing is dumb though. What player with a conference ring is going to say he didn't win the Big Sky or make the semis that year?

[BEAR]

Sounds accurate ;)


The whole thing is dumb though. What player with a conference ring is going to say he didn't win the Big Sky or make the semis that year?

Kinda like Texas State wearing their rings in '08.... or Sammy in '12..( Just kidding Sammy!)