Big XII Commissioner - Changes needed in NCAA structure

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Bob Bowlsby, the Big XII commissioner pretty much admits the have/have not dynamic in Division I sports.


Bowlsby said that there are 70 schools that win 90 percent of the championships in the NCAA and, “We have a bunch of others that don't look like the others yet are trying to compete.” He added that he believed it was time to think about federation by size and scope and perhaps by sport.

“There's plenty of work to do and one of the reasons I took the commissioner job is because I'd like to have more to say about the national agenda and see the best parts of the business enhanced and the other parts improved. I think we will make progress.”

“I think (NCAA) President (Mark) Emmert recognizes that changes need to take place.

“We haven't wanted to put the threat of secession on the table and, in all honesty, there aren't many who think it's a legitimate threat. I haven't spoken with anyone in the business that things we should go look for another organization. So I don't see secession as a point of leverage except as a last resort.”

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2013/jul/22/big-12-commish-bob-bowlsby-ncaa-needs-changes/

[DFW HOYA]

Federation by size isn't a realistic option. There are plenty of smaller schools with much more success than the Big 12 would like to admit (incl. two in its own wheelhouse) and some larger state schools with no post-season resume whatsoever.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

*cough* Butler *cough*

[NoDak 4 Ever]

*cough* Butler *cough*

by sport makes the most sense. Basketball parity is easy because of the size of the team. Football parity is much harder because of the relative expense. There is an enormous divide between the BCS and the "group of five". That is probably what he's talking about.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

by sport makes the most sense. Basketball parity is easy because of the size of the team. Football parity is much harder because of the relative expense. There is an enormous divide between the BCS and the "group of five". That is probably what he meant.

Maybe, but he said:

there are 70 schools that win 90 percent of the championships in the NCAA and, “We have a bunch of others that don't look like the others yet are trying to compete.”

So he's including every school and every NCAA championship. Wonder where Johns Hopkins and Loyola (MD) end up in his world, incidentally? Or the Ivy League, for that matter?

[WestCoastAggie]

March Madness is the gigantic elephant in the room right now. That is the NCAA's only trump card right now.

[walliver]

March Madness is the gigantic elephant in the room right now. That is the NCAA's only trump card right now.

March Madness without the Big 5 wouldn't be the same. It would be a lose-lose situation for fans.

What would make sense would be for the Big 5 to leave for football only. FBS football as it is is the only NCAA sport without a NCAA Championship.

[AmsterBison]

I wish the BCS schools would move out of the NCAA completely, not just for football. I'm sick of their effing whining. Let them run their semi-pro association and drop the pretense. I'm pretty sure that they won't like the unintended consquences.

[gumby013]

I'm still all for a relegation system, by sport, on a 4 year cycle. Conferences linked together at different tiers.

Do well in the MAC, get promoted to the B1G. Do poorly in the B1G, down to the MAC with you.

You can link a few more tiers lower.

[darell1976]

I wish the BCS schools would move out of the NCAA completely, not just for football. I'm sick of their effing whining. Let them run their semi-pro association and drop the pretense. I'm pretty sure that they won't like the unintended consquences.


I agree. They act like they can control the NCAA with tv deals and who they can and cannot schedule, just leave the NCAA altogether.

[CrazyCat]

Swofford sees changes coming


Atlantic Coast Conference commissioner John Swofford said Monday the next six months are "very important" to the future of the NCAA and predicted that significant structural and governance changes could be implemented at the governing body's annual convention in January.
Among the changes up for discussion would be the formation of a so-called "super division" that would allow athletic departments with high-revenue football programs to make some of their own rules and implement things like athlete stipends. Many of those initiatives have been blocked by lower-revenue programs, which make up the majority of the NCAA.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/acc/2013/07/22/commissioner-john-swofford-super-division/2574369/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm really unclear as to how Mr. Swofford's math is going to work. Seventy schools can't force the other 260+ to vote to allow them to break the rules.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'm really unclear as to how Mr. Swofford's math is going to work. Seventy schools can't force the other 260+ to vote to allow them to break the rules.

Yes but 70 schools can make they're own solid division and take all the tv monies with them. That's pretty compelling. As we've seen, it's not unlike the conferences to do their own thing.

[darell1976]

Yes but 70 schools can make they're own solid division and take all the tv monies with them. That's pretty compelling. As we've seen, it's not unlike the conferences to do their own thing.

Does all of the power conferences have tv deals?

[lionsrking2]

Yes but 70 schools can make they're own solid division and take all the tv monies with them. That's pretty compelling. As we've seen, it's not unlike the conferences to do their own thing.

It's not quite that simple. There's a thing called basketball which would complicate any attempt by football powers to form a separate association. Would schools like Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana, etc., be willing to leave the NCAA and March Madness, because of football?

[darell1976]

It's not quite that simple. There's a thing called basketball which would complicate any attempt by football powers to form a separate association. Would schools like Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana, etc., be willing to leave the NCAA and March Madness, because of football?

I don't think the Gophers and Badgers would part ways of NCAA hockey. If they moved that would wipe out the new Big 10 Hockey Conference.

[ASUMountaineer]

*cough* Butler *cough*

*cough* Duke *cough*

[Lehigh Football Nation]

*cough* Duke *cough*

You really don't want to drop Duke on me... xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

You really don't want to drop Duke on me... xlolx

I'd like to drop Duke anywhere, so long as it's out of NC. xlolx

[UNDColorado]

This is definitely interesting. In the last couple weeks every major conference short of Pac-12 has been talking about this. Totally breaking off from the ncaa does not seem to be the strategy, but rather a major re-classification for football. Totally breaking away would not make sense because of March Madness as well. Too many moving parts there. But I could certainly see a new big school tier, then the lower half of FBS merging with the top half of FCS. Even some D11 move-ups to help fill in the old FCS.

A lot of work yet but typically where there is smoke there is eventually fire.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is definitely interesting. In the last couple weeks every major conference short of Pac-12 has been talking about this. Totally breaking off from the ncaa does not seem to be the strategy, but rather a major re-classification for football. Totally breaking away would not make sense because of March Madness as well. Too many moving parts there. But I could certainly see a new big school tier, then the lower half of FBS merging with the top half of FCS. Even some D11 move-ups to help fill in the old FCS.

A lot of work yet but typically where there is smoke there is eventually fire.

Agreed, but there is no way this gets passed without some giant concession to the other 260. Last I checked it still needed to pass a vote to ratify.

[lionsrking2]

This is definitely interesting. In the last couple weeks every major conference short of Pac-12 has been talking about this. Totally breaking off from the ncaa does not seem to be the strategy, but rather a major re-classification for football. Totally breaking away would not make sense because of March Madness as well. Too many moving parts there. But I could certainly see a new big school tier, then the lower half of FBS merging with the top half of FCS. Even some D11 move-ups to help fill in the old FCS.

A lot of work yet but typically where there is smoke there is eventually fire.

It's not as easy as they want to make folks think. The entire body would have to approve a third D-I tier, or separate division altogether. That's why they're threatening to form a new association, which I don't think anybody truly believes will happen. I'm sure something will give, but probably not as radical as some are envisioning.

[SpiritCymbal]

It's not quite that simple. There's a thing called basketball which would complicate any attempt by football powers to form a separate association. Would schools like Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana, etc., be willing to leave the NCAA and March Madness, because of football?

Just playing devils advocate here, but I would think that the BCS leagues would have already thought of this and have a plan for their own basketball tournament and tv contract. While it might not pay out as much as the current March Madness tv contract, it could potentially large enough to convince those same schools that the change for football would be worth it. Coach K may not like it, but Duke's President won't mind if it means more total money coming in.

[lionsrking2]

Just playing devils advocate here, but I would think that the BCS leagues would have already thought of this and have a plan for their own basketball tournament and tv contract.

It's called "sabre-rattling." I'm sure the BCS leagues do have basketball proposals in mind, but nothing they could come up with could rival the current March Madness arrangement and value to networks. The reason March Madness is what it is today, is due to the "Cinderella Story" and the dream of the "little guy." It literally grips the entire nation for two and a half weeks, regardless of whether you're a hoops junkie or not. Not saying a bracket made up entirely of schools from power conferences wouldn't sell, but it wouldn't have the same broad appeal. Basketball is already a declining sport in many parts of the country, particularly the deep south, and I'm not sure the major hoops schools would want to tinker with the best thing they have going.

[darell1976]

Agreed, but there is no way this gets passed without some giant concession to the other 260. Last I checked it still needed to pass a vote to ratify.

The NCAA can get things done without a vote of all the schools..(nickname policy)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Just playing devils advocate here, but I would think that the BCS leagues would have already thought of this and have a plan for their own basketball tournament and tv contract. While it might not pay out as much as the current March Madness tv contract, it could potentially large enough to convince those same schools that the change for football would be worth it. Coach K may not like it, but Duke's President won't mind if it means more total money coming in.

Without the Georgetown's, Villanova's, Gonzaga's, UNLV's, Temple's of the world it would never work.

One of the biggest assets to the AAC that no one talks (those that matter do) about is the Lady Huskies. They are basically women's college basketball in the USA since Pat Summit retired.

[Laker]

Basketball is already a declining sport in many parts of the country, particularly the deep south.

I'm up in hockey country and I've never heard this before. What are the indicators for this?

[Laker]

The NCAA can get things done without a vote of all the schools..(nickname policy)

You wouldn't be talking about their amazing inconsistent policy of pick and choose, would you??? xsmiley_wix

[darell1976]

You wouldn't be talking about their amazing inconsistent policy of pick and choose, would you??? xsmiley_wix

Nah...the NCAA wouldn't do that.xlolx

[PAllen]

I'm still all for a relegation system, by sport, on a 4 year cycle. Conferences linked together at different tiers.

Do well in the MAC, get promoted to the B1G. Do poorly in the B1G, down to the MAC with you.

You can link a few more tiers lower.

That would be a terrible idea. There are some schools out there who have no interest in moving up whatever the cost and prefer to be with traditional regional rivals.

[PAllen]

It's not quite that simple. There's a thing called basketball which would complicate any attempt by football powers to form a separate association. Would schools like Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana, etc., be willing to leave the NCAA and March Madness, because of football?

But an NCAA tournament without Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana, UCLA, ... won't hold up as March Madness against another tournament that includes such teams.

[ASUMountaineer]

The NCAA can get things done without a vote of all the schools..(nickname policy)

True, but this will mostly hurt the NCAA, not help it.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The consensus opinion is that he is referring to football only. Precisely what I have been predicting this whole time.

[lionsrking2]

But an NCAA tournament without Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana, UCLA, ... won't hold up as March Madness against another tournament that includes such teams.

Not claiming it would, but what incentive would those basketball schools have in taking the risk of diminishing their basketball brand? They would be at an even bigger disadvantage in football without some ability to schedule winnable games and would risk losing some of their luster in hoops. Granted, the NCAA would take a hit in regards to March Madness, but so would the BCS hoops schools who leave. Not saying it couldn't work over time, but there's a lot of risk involved in bucking a system that has served those schools and college hoops well.

[UNDColorado]

The consensus opinion is that he is referring to football only. Precisely what I have been predicting this whole time.

Absolutely, people need to stop thinking about march madness because whatever happens will not impact that...this is football only and they are not breaking away from the ncaa.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Absolutely, people need to stop thinking about march madness because whatever happens will not impact that...this is football only and they are not breaking away from the ncaa.

But it still requires member support from somebody other than the 70.

http://www.chron.com/sports/college/article/Another-NCAA-subdivision-for-large-schools-4563685.php


Emmert conceded that the idea could work within the NCAA's current framework but ultimately will have to be decided by its member institutions.

"That's not my decision," he said. "That's the members' decision. And I hope they look at it. I think it would be healthy and the right thing to do."

[lionsrking2]

Absolutely, people need to stop thinking about march madness because whatever happens will not impact that...this is football only and they are not breaking away from the ncaa.

Basketball could be an issue because the only real leverage the BCS conferences have is the threat of secession. Not to say they won't ultimately get what they want, or get enough concessions to satisfy, but if secession is not a real option, they'll still need the votes to form a new classification or division. Therein lies the potential rub.

[citdog]

Did somebody say secession?

[SU DOG]

Did somebody say secession?

LMAO!!! Now that is funny, I don't care who you are.

[UNDColorado]

Basketball could be an issue because the only real leverage the BCS conferences have is the threat of secession. Not to say they won't ultimately get what they want, or get enough concessions to satisfy, but if secession is not a real option, they'll still need the votes to form a new classification or division. Therein lies the potential rub.

They also have 7 billion dollars in revenue generation as leverage. I don't think this has been posted on here but Dennis Dodd has an interesting opinion: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/22847993/life-to-the-bcs-look-for-division-4-to-revolutionize-college-athletics

I agree and think there is a lot of posturing going on to get the ncaa to work with them on their specific demands. Scare tactics if you will. I think that leaving the ncaa is a last resort because of the implications that it would have with basketball, and even other sports like hockey and baseball.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

They also have 7 billion dollars in revenue generation as leverage. I don't think this has been posted on here but Dennis Dodd has an interesting opinion: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/22847993/life-to-the-bcs-look-for-division-4-to-revolutionize-college-athletics

I agree and think there is a lot of posturing going on to get the ncaa to work with them on their specific demands. Scare tactics if you will. I think that leaving the ncaa is a last resort because of the implications that it would have with basketball, and even other sports like hockey and baseball.

Exactly, at many schools football simply is not THAT important. I went to one. At the end of the day I simply don't see it happening either.

[UNDColorado]

But it still requires member support from somebody other than the 70.

http://www.chron.com/sports/college/article/Another-NCAA-subdivision-for-large-schools-4563685.php

You are right, that will definitely be an issue. It's just that in today's society money talks, the big guys eventually get what they want. Check out the cbs article that I just posted. It is a lot of posturing but it makes me think a bit deeper about the issue.

[RichH2]

Regardless of rhetoric, the sole issue is greed.The same disease gutting America now. Makes no difference that NCAA provides framework for the 70 to compete. Whateer it takes for them to keep all the money is what they will do.

[bonarae]

I read the comments of the article that UNDColorado posted. This issue has become too much for us, then a question has emerged: why are FCS schools moving up to FBS despite all of these proposals that can reduce the glitz / long-term feasibility of those programs? xchinscratchx

Some of the posters in the comments of that article say that they are going to focus entirely on pro sports...

[RichH2]

bonarae, have not understood the lure of FBS over the las t5-6 yrs. Seismic changes have been coming for decades and seemingly now are here. What are they moving to now, a little hump division of 50 someodd tweener schools.

[Sandlapper Spike]

From the Dodd article:


"It will surprise me if they [BCS conferences] don't get what they want," said Karl Benson, the Sun Belt commissioner.

And if they do?

"The other five conferences will have to decide at what level we can afford to participate in it," Benson added.

That sounds like the FCS could get a whole lot bigger in the not-too-distant future...

[FargoBison]

From the Dodd article:



That sounds like the FCS could get a whole lot bigger in the not-too-distant future...

Hopefully the FCS gets a lot smaller. I want to see the upper tier of the FCS merge with the lower tier of the FBS. Let what is left of the FCS become a true limited cost subdivision.

[Saint3333]

Hopefully the FCS gets a lot smaller. I want to see the upper tier of the FCS merge with the lower tier of the FBS. Let what is left of the FCS become a true limited cost subdivision.

Don't mind that myself. If it occurs I hope that we are able to structure it appropriately and enforce minimum requirements.

[Lehigh'98]

What criteria would u use to select the upper tier FCS?? Attendance, records, conference? What would you do with teams like Wofford, Lehigh and Harvard? Smaller schools with solid football programs. What is the cutoff? Would you realign the conferences?

[Bisonator]

Scholly limits.

100
75
50 and under

[Saint3333]

Scholarships and attendance.

85 - 30k
63 - 10k
40 - no min.

[Sader87]

If the big boys pull away, like just about everything else in America lately, there won't be a "tier 2/middle class"...it'll be the Big Boy Top 75, 80 etc and everyone else.

Do you really think many people will really care enough about a Tulane-Central Michigan Tier 2 Quarterfinal playoff game to put that on a major network or attend in great (50K+) numbers???

[RichH2]

Oh 87 dont bust their bubble I'm sure ODU vsLa-Lafayette will pack em in and have ESPN begging for the contract.

[darell1976]

Scholarships and attendance.

85 - 30k
63 - 10k
40 - no min.

10,000 sounds good for the MAC since most of them average under it.

[FargoBison]

What criteria would u use to select the upper tier FCS?? Attendance, records, conference? What would you do with teams like Wofford, Lehigh and Harvard? Smaller schools with solid football programs. What is the cutoff? Would you realign the conferences?

My requirements....must fund at least 60 scholarships(max of 70), must participate in postseason play if selected...I'm not sure what to do with attendance(to me that seems hard to enforce). But basically I want to eliminate the dead weight and only retain the most committed FCS schools to join the lower FBS schools. So to some extent it would be up to those schools as to where they belong.

[IBleedYellow]

Scholarships and attendance.

85 - 30k
63 - 10k
40 - no min.

Sounds like you don't want to play NDSU. Understandable ;)

But really, I'd prefer if it was just scholarships.

Attendance is cool and all, but lots of programs can have issues filling a place if they have bad or incompetent leadership that rolls in until the fans get fed up and boot them out.

[FargoBison]

If the big boys pull away, like just about everything else in America lately, there won't be a "tier 2/middle class"...it'll be the Big Boy Top 75, 80 etc and everyone else.

Do you really think many people will really care enough about a Tulane-Central Michigan Tier 2 Quarterfinal playoff game to put that on a major network or attend in great (50K+) numbers???

Last time I checked GSU-ODU, a FCS quarterfinal game was on a national TV network...what exactly is the difference?

[Go...gate]

If the big boys pull away, like just about everything else in America lately, there won't be a "tier 2/middle class"...it'll be the Big Boy Top 75, 80 etc and everyone else.

Do you really think many people will really care enough about a Tulane-Central Michigan Tier 2 Quarterfinal playoff game to put that on a major network or attend in great (50K+) numbers???

Really seems that way, doesn't it?

[Southern Bison]

What criteria would u use to select the upper tier FCS?? Attendance, records, conference? What would you do with teams like Wofford, Lehigh and Harvard? Smaller schools with solid football programs. What is the cutoff? Would you realign the conferences?

New "BCS" Dvision: AAC (old Big East), ACC, B1G, Big XII, SEC, Pac 12, & Notre Dame

From the FBS: Mountain West, Sunbelt, Conference USA, WAC, MAC, & Independents
From the FCS: Any school that can show they can maintain 74 schollys. (raised/lowered to compromise pairing of 63/85 scholly schools)

I could see most, if not all of the schools in the following conferences going to the new FCS: Missouri Valley, SoCon, Colonial, Big Sky, Southland. There may be others as you mention and they could be absorbed into other conferences (i.e. Lehigh into C-USA or MAC, E. Illinois into the MAC or MVFC, etc.)

The "new" FCS would have a playoff format just like the current FCS.
Auto-bid for conf. champs and at-large for all other schools.
The championship would be moved to a much larger venue than Frisco.
Fox Sports Networks get the contract for the new FCS Division and ESPN can keep the BCS. xthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They also have 7 billion dollars in revenue generation as leverage. I don't think this has been posted on here but Dennis Dodd has an interesting opinion: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/22847993/life-to-the-bcs-look-for-division-4-to-revolutionize-college-athletics

I agree and think there is a lot of posturing going on to get the ncaa to work with them on their specific demands. Scare tactics if you will. I think that leaving the ncaa is a last resort because of the implications that it would have with basketball, and even other sports like hockey and baseball.

Not to mention tax-exempt status. Fear of losing that will keep them chained to the NCAA for a long, long time, something people tend to forget - and make their "threats" pretty hollow, IMO.

[ecasadoSBU]

Ok. Let the big guys break away...

For the rest of us lets make a new collegiate athletics body (a new NCAA) in which every school is absolutely equal and in which every decision needs to be voted by all member schools.... That way we can avoid competitive forces (money) from screwing our future association. At the end of the day, the larger group composed of amateur athletes will win (us, with over 300+ member schools). the problem with the NCAA has always been the built in inequality. Professional sports league survive because every member is treated equally no matter which one brings more revenue to the table. We can do the same with our amateur association. sharing of playoffs revenue between all members. Same amount of bids to the playoffs per conference (no at-large) to promote competitive balance. Regional conferences that will ferment localized rivalries and the growth of amateur athletics.

It is possible to do it. We just need the small schools to be proactive and to realize that if we don't make a move we are going to be screwed...

[Bisonoline]

They also have 7 billion dollars in revenue generation as leverage. I don't think this has been posted on here but Dennis Dodd has an interesting opinion: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/22847993/life-to-the-bcs-look-for-division-4-to-revolutionize-college-athletics

I agree and think there is a lot of posturing going on to get the ncaa to work with them on their specific demands. Scare tactics if you will. I think that leaving the ncaa is a last resort because of the implications that it would have with basketball, and even other sports like hockey and baseball.

Thanks for posting that. That whole scenario has been brought up before but I am surprised its coming to ahead so quickly.

[darell1976]

Sounds like you don't want to play NDSU. Understandable ;)

But really, I'd prefer if it was just scholarships.

Attendance is cool and all, but lots of programs can have issues filling a place if they have bad or incompetent leadership that rolls in until the fans get fed up and boot them out.

Attendance requirements are dumb FBS is the only ones in all sports to have one. Splitting up by scholarships is better.

[SUPharmacist]

Ok. Let the big guys break away...

For the rest of us lets make a new collegiate athletics body (a new NCAA) in which every school is absolutely equal and in which every decision needs to be voted by all member schools.... That way we can avoid competitive forces (money) from screwing our future association. At the end of the day, the larger group composed of amateur athletes will win (us, with over 300+ member schools). the problem with the NCAA has always been the built in inequality. Professional sports league survive because every member is treated equally no matter which one brings more revenue to the table. We can do the same with our amateur association. sharing of playoffs revenue between all members. Same amount of bids to the playoffs per conference (no at-large) to promote competitive balance. Regional conferences that will ferment localized rivalries and the growth of amateur athletics.

It is possible to do it. We just need the small schools to be proactive and to realize that if we don't make a move we are going to be screwed...

I can't imagine a way this would ever work. Even in professional sports the teams aren't equal.

[DFW HOYA]

For the rest of us lets make a new collegiate athletics body (a new NCAA) in which every school is absolutely equal and in which every decision needs to be voted by all member schools....

There are over 900 member schools in the NCAA. Do you really want Bowdoin, Metro State, or Lancaster Bible College having the same vote as your school?

[ecasadoSBU]

There are over 900 member schools in the NCAA. Do you really want Bowdoin, Metro State, or Lancaster Bible College having the same vote as your school?

If we keep the same structure (Division I scholarship, DII 50/50, DIII no scholarship) then I don't see why all DI school should have equal voting rights. Same for DII and DIII schools within their respective divisions. However, It wouldn't make sense for DIII schools to vote for DI matters.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Honestly, I think the big money athletic departments are like a 6 year old kid pitching a fit because he won't get any cotton candy in hopes of getting a lollipop. They will get some kind of concession but I don't see football going to four subdivisions nor will they form their own governing organization. There is nothing new about the parity in college sports so I think if this was going to happen it would have happened by now.

[walliver]

The problem faced the non Big 5 members of the NCAA, is that the Big 5 generate most of the NCAA's revenue. March Madness excitement may be created by teams like Butler and Gonzaga, but it is the ACC, Big10, PAC, SEC (they had a bad year last year) with their large fanbases and multiple (4-5) bids that put butts in seats and drive ratings for early round games.

Since 1990 when UNLV won the tournament, Connecticut is the only school to win a NCAA title that is not currently in or about to join a Big 5 football conference. A NCAA tournament without the Big 5 would be just a glorified NIT, a result that would be devastating to the Big East, as well as eliminate a major source of conference funding for FCS conferences and mid-major basketball conferences.

As a result, I suspect that most FCS conferences and non-basketball conferences would give the "BCS" schools whatever they want. The primary hold-ups potentially could be:
1) Would the AAC try to force their way into the big boy league
2) What could the NCAA do to mollify the Gang of 5? Would they give up bowl opportunities for a playoff? Would inter-subdivision games be promoted somehow?
3) The playoff payoff given to the Gang of 5 would probably go away. Big5 teams probably wouldn't play multiple sub-Big5 games. The Gang of 5 schools would lose a lot of revenue (maybe $2-3 Million each), and schools would have to support their football programs based almost exclusively of ticket sales, donations and student fees. A TV contract for a sub-Big5 conference wouldn't be worth much since it would no longer be at the "highest level". I suspect there would be a lot of realignment for remaining FBS conferences as geography and travel expenses would become more important, possibly more important than TV exposure.

Of course, if the NCAA loses the O'Bannon lawsuit, it will be a free-for-all.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Honestly, I think the big money athletic departments are like a 6 year old kid pitching a fit because he won't get any cotton candy in hopes of getting a lollipop. They will get some kind of concession but I don't see football going to four subdivisions nor will they form their own governing organization. There is nothing new about the parity in college sports so I think if this was going to happen it would have happened by now.

The fact that the moaning seems to be coming loudest from the Big XII, who was nearly blown apart by Realignmentageddon, and the ACC, who still isn't out of the woods yet of having UNC poached by the Big 10, is especially rich.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The problem faced the non Big 5 members of the NCAA, is that the Big 5 generate most of the NCAA's revenue. March Madness excitement may be created by teams like Butler and Gonzaga, but it is the ACC, Big10, PAC, SEC (they had a bad year last year) with their large fanbases and multiple (4-5) bids that put butts in seats and drive ratings for early round games.

Early round games almost always involve a "excitement" team vs. a "big" team, so what is driving what? FGCU beats Georgetown, Lehigh beats Duke, Norfolk State beats Missouri. Both sides drive the ratings. I think a first round game of 25-5 Indiana and 20-12 Ole Miss won't get nearly the same level of interest nationally, and a Lehigh/Davidson 1st round game would suffer the same fate.

IMO if you split the NCAA tournament up it honestly destroys everything that's been built there. It would literally go from a national craze to a niche, NHL-like sport overnight.

[RichH2]

Early round games almost always involve a "excitement" team vs. a "big" team, so what is driving what? FGCU beats Georgetown, Lehigh beats Duke, Norfolk State beats Missouri. Both sides drive the ratings. I think a first round game of 25-5 Indiana and 20-12 Ole Miss won't get nearly the same level of interest nationally, and a Lehigh/Davidson 1st round game would suffer the same fate.

IMO if you split the NCAA tournament up it honestly destroys everything that's been built there. It would literally go from a national craze to a niche, NHL-like sport overnight.

Yup.Casual pool fans gone.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

He's still not talking about basketball. Any basketball analogy is moot. This is purely football much along the lines of the 1978 realignment. There is just much more concentration at the top now. The BCS is a separate entity. They have their own partners, sponsors, and trophies. No matter what it is called they are for all intents and purposes separate any way.

[RichH2]

True enuf , now they want all of their money not just a portion , Cut ncaa down to a tiny share.

[walliver]

He's still not talking about basketball. Any basketball analogy is moot. This is purely football much along the lines of the 1978 realignment. There is just much more concentration at the top now. The BCS is a separate entity. They have their own partners, sponsors, and trophies. No matter what it is called they are for all intents and purposes separate any way.

But the Big5 are not happy about paying every Gang of 5 school $1,000,000 a year. If they have their own division, then they can cut out the payoffs.

[bluehenbillk]

But the Big5 are not happy about paying every Gang of 5 school $1,000,000 a year. If they have their own division, then they can cut out the payoffs.

Actually it'd be the opposite - they'd most likely expand playoffs because they'd be the only ones in it & the more teams & more games equal more TV dollars.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Actually it'd be the opposite - they'd most likely expand playoffs because they'd be the only ones in it & the more teams & more games equal more TV dollars.

But would they still be tax-exempt and would their primary mission be education anymore in that case?

[walliver]

Actually it'd be the opposite - they'd most likely expand playoffs because they'd be the only ones in it & the more teams & more games equal more TV dollars.

I think you misread my post.

I said cut out the payoffs, not playoffs.

[TheRevSFA]

But would they still be tax-exempt and would their primary mission be education anymore in that case?

Yes, and no

[bluehenbillk]

I think you misread my post.

I said cut out the payoffs, not playoffs.

My fault.

[danefan]

But would they still be tax-exempt and would their primary mission be education anymore in that case?


They could be tax exempt but pay Unrelated Business Income Tax ("UBIT"). They probably should be doing that now.

[bluehenbillk]

But would they still be tax-exempt and would their primary mission be education anymore in that case?

Of course they'd still be tax exempt. Politicians control that and as we all sadly know politicians do nothing, it'd be political suicide to do that - it'd just jack up tuition rates at a higher rate then they're going up today, lose-lose.

[Southsider]

Yes but 70 schools can make they're own solid division and take all the tv monies with them. That's pretty compelling. As we've seen, it's not unlike the conferences to do their own thing.

Good! TV is what has been killing attendance at 1-AA games for years. Too many lazy ass people who would rather sit in front of the boob tube instead of going to the local college game!

[RichH2]

But would they still be tax-exempt and would their primary mission be education anymore in that case?

doing some research on that Q. NCAA is an assoc recognized by US as the representative body for its members. The 70 leave purely for monetary reasons they will face the possibility of IRS taxing athletic revenues as income from a for profit enterprise, which realistically it is now but NCAA has that niche. Greed makes people shortsighted ,so it seems with all these ADs staring firmly at their bottomlines. Unintended consequences will I fear come to roost at some point. Oh well, in reality I find I dont care as much anymore. Sport now has become more about ADs and coaches and less and less about schools and players,

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Good! TV is what has been killing attendance at 1-AA games for years. Too many lazy ass people who would rather sit in front of the boob tube instead of going to the local college game!

TV has not been killing attendance at FCS games as a whole. Attendance showed a decent increase in 2011 as was reported last summer for the previous season. Haven't seen the overall for last season but doubt it was down across the country.

Maybe there is a specific example you are thinking of but the numbers just didn't support your statement as a whole.

[Bisonator]

Good! TV is what has been killing attendance at 1-AA games for years. Too many lazy ass people who would rather sit in front of the boob tube instead of going to the local college game!

Winning puts butts in seats whether the games are on TV or not. All Bison games were on local TV last season and this season and every game is sold out.

[phoenix3]

Welcome back to D1-AA...

[RichH2]

Welcome back to D1-AA...

Or maybe I-AAA
0r my fav

BC$
FBS I
FBS II
WGAS ( who gives a *****)

[Southsider]

TV has not been killing attendance at FCS games as a whole. Attendance showed a decent increase in 2011 as was reported last summer for the previous season. Haven't seen the overall for last season but doubt it was down across the country.

Maybe there is a specific example you are thinking of but the numbers just didn't support your statement as a whole.


Fair question. While I don't have the facts to back up my statement, I can tell you that living in the Lehigh Valley in Eastern Pa allows for us to tap both the Phila & NY TV markets. On any given Sat you can tune into a game involving PSU, Temple, Pitt, Rutgers, Syracuse, and your national games, as well as CAA games via Comcast. I have attended every Lehigh home game for 40 years, and I can tell you that the days of 9 to 12k in the seats have passed, despite fielding some very solid teams. While I would agree that the competition could be part of the reason for the dropoff, I just know of too many folks who would just rather crack a can in front of the tube. Again, can't back it up with facts, just my humble opinion.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Fair question. While I don't have the facts to back up my statement, I can tell you that living in the Lehigh Valley in Eastern Pa allows for us to tap both the Phila & NY TV markets. On any given Sat you can tune into a game involving PSU, Temple, Pitt, Rutgers, Syracuse, and your national games, as well as CAA games via Comcast. I have attended every Lehigh home game for 40 years, and I can tell you that the days of 9 to 12k in the seats have passed, despite fielding some very solid teams. While I would agree that the competition could be part of the reason for the dropoff, I just know of too many folks who would just rather crack a can in front of the tube. Again, can't back it up with facts, just my humble opinion.

Got it. Just different perspectives in looking at the claim. I'm taking it on the whole and you were looking at the micro. I'm sure there are many reasons and those you suggested may have something to do with it just not sure it's the biggest reason for the change. If I look at just Montana for instance I'd be able to say that TV has increased butts in the seats(over the last 20 yrs.) by twofold at least.

Regardless, I agree, get out and watch the games live.xthumbsupx

[RichH2]

Live games are the ones I remember. Seen a 1000 on TV but those are not the ones I tell to my grandkids,

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Live games are the ones I remember. Seen a 1000 on TV but those are not the ones I tell to my grandkids,

xlolx

You know it's not gonna be a good story if it starts "So I was sitting there on my couch and you wouldn't have believed the atmosphere in my living room...".

[RichH2]

xlolx

You know it's not gonna be a good story if it starts "So I was sitting there on my couch and you wouldn't have believed the atmosphere in my living room...".

LOL,I like to start with it was so cold my dinosaur froze....

[RichH2]

ESPN College Live on now. They all want 3500/yr for each player. Rationale from Spurrier , well look SEC making tons more $$, coaches making tons more $$$, players still only getting same scholarship $$. OK, I get it. Profit sharing for players.

Very slippery slope. Can see players going on strike some yrs down the road, to cut out classes.
Admit with all the movement,environment now where ADs,Conference Commissioners and Coaches are the stars ,I have lost most of my interest in BCS football. I have enjoyed it sor well over 50 yrs. Still love our FCS where schools and players mean more than ADs. BCS is now more about TV rights, merchandising and star Head Coaches than about football

[bonarae]

Admit with all the movement,environment now where ADs,Conference Commissioners and Coaches are the stars ,I have lost most of my interest in BCS football. I have enjoyed it sor well over 50 yrs. Still love our FCS where schools and players mean more than ADs. BCS is now more about TV rights, merchandising and star Head Coaches than about football

More like a glorified, younger version of the NFL. xrolleyesx

[RichH2]

Yeah, in a way. At some point schools will only provide name and colors. Sports will be a complete separate entity. Perhaps more practical. My point tho is that as it is morphing into this self centered hydra concerened more with money than .... oh wait , yup it is pro footballxeekx