Buck Buchanan Award Watch List Announced

[smallcollegefbfan]

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/writers/infcshuddle/index.htm

LB Dorian Bell, Duquesne, Sr.
LB Clarence Bumpas, Northern Colorado, Sr.
CB Qua Cox, Jackson State, Sr.
LB Wes Dothard, Chattanooga, Sr.
CB Steven Godbolt III, Tennessee State, Jr.
LB Ronnie Hamlin, Eastern Washington, Sr.
DT Antoine Lewis, Villanova, Sr.
S Jestin Love, Central Arkansas, Sr.
LB Grant Olson, North Dakota State, Sr.
DT Caraun Reid, Princeton, Sr.
LB Stephon Robertson, James Madison, Sr.
S Caleb Schaffitzel, Missouri State, Jr.
LB Alvin Scioneaux, Wofford, Sr.
DT Robert Simpson, Mississippi Valley State, Sr.
LB Tyler Starr, South Dakota, Sr.
S Jaquiski Tartt, Samford, Jr.
LB Jordan Tripp, Montana, Sr.
DE Davis Tull, Chattanooga, Jr.
DE Colton Underwood, Illinois State, Sr.
CB Marcus Williams, North Dakota State, Sr.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I'm not saying any of these names are bad because all of them are good players but I would have just two comments.

1. Defensive ends usually get a lot of votes and there are always more than two and less than three safeties who usually end up on the list. I would put one safety and add a couple of ends.

2. Chattanooga isn't a powerhouse program so I would have put just one of their guys on the list instead of two.

My only changes would be to drop Dothard, Sachaffitzel, and Love. Then I would replace those three with Montana DE Zach Wagenmann, Harvard DE Zach Hodges, and Delaware DT Zach Kerr. Kerr is the most underrated defensive player in FCS. I would put him in the top 20 players overall if I were to put a list of the best together. Hodges was really good last year as well and Montana is a powerhouse name whose ends are always considered among the best in the nation.

With that said it's just three changes so I definitely think it's a good list. With so many good players I wish you could put 25 candidates because there is a lot of individual talent coming back.

[BisonFan02]

Too bad you really can't give NDSU more than two....Jirik, Perry, Heagle....tough to stand out stat wise with the D that is assembled.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Too bad you really can't give NDSU more than two....Jirik, Perry, Heagle....tough to stand out stat wise with the D that is assembled.

I love Emanuel and Jirik. I think Emanuel is better than people have him rated. Heagle is good but coming off an injury and has been two years since his really good season. I think he should have to go prove it this year to earn a spot. Williams clearly should be on this list. While I don't have Williams as high on my draft board as the media does he is a very good player. I have Williams as a 7th round grade.

[BisonFan02]

I love Emanuel and Jirik. I think Emanuel is better than people have him rated. Heagle is good but coming off an injury and has been two years since his really good season. I think he should have to go prove it this year to earn a spot. Williams clearly should be on this list. While I don't have Williams as high on my draft board as the media does he is a very good player. I have Williams as a 7th round grade.

Agree on Heagle. Included him more as a collection of weapons on D versus a Buchanan nominee.

[knucklehead]

I would not be surprised to see Liberty LB Nick Sigmon on this list by year's end.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I would not be surprised to see Liberty LB Nick Sigmon on this list by year's end.

I feel the same way about Lehigh's Nigel Muhammad....

[BEAR]

So what do they judge the winner on?

You say you'd get rid of Love but read his bio. How could anyone get rid of such a valuable team leader like him from that list? 4 game sealing picks. Vocal and field presence that uses his field smarts to disrupt plays. So much more. Instead of dropping Love, why not just add a couple more worthy ones along with those you don't like? Makes sense to me. Heck, the NCAA added 4 more playoff teams. xlolx

[chattownmocs]

We should have 3. No Derrick Lott? BS.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

We should have 3. No Derrick Lott? BS.

Big deal, we should have 5 or 6.

[smallcollegefbfan]

So what do they judge the winner on?

You say you'd get rid of Love but read his bio. How could anyone get rid of such a valuable team leader like him from that list? 4 game sealing picks. Vocal and field presence that uses his field smarts to disrupt plays. So much more. Instead of dropping Love, why not just add a couple more worthy ones along with those you don't like? Makes sense to me. Heck, the NCAA added 4 more playoff teams. xlolx

I know he has a great bio. I have seen him play for three years and he is good. My whole point is that safeties just don't win this award. For him to win this award he would have to have about 7-9 picks, 90 plus tackles, 5-10 PBUs, and some FFs, FRs, and other numbers. I think he will have a good year but as a safety with a good rep I don't see him winning or coming close to winning the award. You have to remember that this award is mainly about stats. I think he and the Missouri State safety are both worthy of being on the list (I said they are good players) but I just think the three I mentioned have a better shot with numbers being they are defensive linemen. Linebackers and defensive linemen have a much better shot than a really good defensive back at winning this award. The last defensive back to win it was Rashean Mathis. Do you think with the rep that Love has right now and his style of play that he will have the passes defended (INTs, PBUs) to win this? I just don't see it. With that said Love is an All-American, one of the best in FCS, and definitely a top 3-4 safety in the nation.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Big deal, we should have 5 or 6.

LOL. You guys need to ignore the crazy comments from him. Don't stir the pot haha.

It's funny that people complain about these lists without seeing every player on here. How does he know Lott is better than those safeties or how does he know that any of their guys are better because he doesn't see anyone outside of the SoCon? And you have to remember the coaches named Lott 2nd team All-SoCon last year. They don't even think he was one of the top four linemen in the league so why would he be among the top 5-6 linemen in the entire nation at this point? Could he blow it up and be there? Yes he could but I will say the CAA has a better line than the SoCon does and I would argue that a 2nd team pick there is almost equal to a 1st team pick in the SoCon. After Tull there really isn't an elite defender from the SoCon on the defensive line.

Chattanooga is not App State or Georgia Southern and if those schools can't have 4 on the list, Chatty can't either. Chattanooga has four really good defenders. I just don't see any of them having the numbers to finish in the top five for the Buchanan. I think the top two on their defense are on this list in terms of resume. I just wouldn't put more than one right now because there are better athletes who are likely to put up numbers coming from better programs out there.

The great thing about these lists is that they will be updated and determined based on play and not our arguments on AGS! :)

[Bisonator]

Too bad you really can't give NDSU more than two....Jirik, Perry, Heagle....tough to stand out stat wise with the D that is assembled.

It is just a watch list after all and there are some great players on other teams too. But I agree Jirik, Emanuel, and Perry are guys that could easily have made it. xnodx

Ah hell, our whole defense should be on there! :D

[NoDak 4 Ever]

It is just a watch list after all and there are some great players on other teams too. But I agree Jirik, Emanuel, and Perry are guys that could easily have made it. xnodx

Ah hell, our whole defense should be on there! :D

Drevlow, Littlejohn, and Perry's just straight gon' KILL somebody after what happened to him last year.

[Silenoz]

I think Wagenmann has a much better chance at winning it than Tripp, but we shall see

[chattownmocs]

LOL. You guys need to ignore the crazy comments from him. Don't stir the pot haha.

It's funny that people complain about these lists without seeing every player on here. How does he know Lott is better than those safeties or how does he know that any of their guys are better because he doesn't see anyone outside of the SoCon? And you have to remember the coaches named Lott 2nd team All-SoCon last year. They don't even think he was one of the top four linemen in the league so why would he be among the top 5-6 linemen in the entire nation at this point? Could he blow it up and be there? Yes he could but I will say the CAA has a better line than the SoCon does and I would argue that a 2nd team pick there is almost equal to a 1st team pick in the SoCon. After Tull there really isn't an elite defender from the SoCon on the defensive line.

Chattanooga is not App State or Georgia Southern and if those schools can't have 4 on the list, Chatty can't either. Chattanooga has four really good defenders. I just don't see any of them having the numbers to finish in the top five for the Buchanan. I think the top two on their defense are on this list in terms of resume. I just wouldn't put more than one right now because there are better athletes who are likely to put up numbers coming from better programs out there.

The great thing about these lists is that they will be updated and determined based on play and not our arguments on AGS! :)

2011 SOCON team scoring stats

App State 27.5 PPG 21.8 PPGA +5.7
Chattanooga 27.1 PPG 18.3 PPGA +8.8

2012 SOCON team scoring stats

APP State 31.9 PPG 29.7 PPGA +2.2
Chattanooga 26.1 PPG 20.8 PPGA +5.3

W/L

games decided by 1 possesion or less 2011-2012

App State 7-0
Chattanooga 2-7

games decided by 1+ possession

App State 5-4
Chattanooga 6-1

The teams have been on the opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to winning or losing close games. Much of it is luck. You would have to be a dumbass to think there is some large gap in talent unless it is in our favor heading into 2013.

[smallcollegefbfan]

2011 SOCON team scoring stats

App State 27.5 PPG 21.8 PPGA +5.7
Chattanooga 27.1 PPG 18.3 PPGA +8.8

2012 SOCON team scoring stats

APP State 31.9 PPG 29.7 PPGA +2.2
Chattanooga 26.1 PPG 20.8 PPGA +5.3

W/L

games decided by 1 possesion or less 2011-2012

App State 7-0
Chattanooga 2-7

games decided by 1+ possession

App State 5-4
Chattanooga 6-1

The teams have been on the opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to winning or losing close games. Much of it is luck. You would have to be a dumbass to think there is some large gap in talent unless it is in our favor.

When it comes to a team game the only record that truly matters when talking about a program, NOT INDIVIDUALS, is the record of the team. Chattanooga was an average team last year. As seen in the below stats, which these numbers are all that matters at the end of the day.


Standings Conference Pct. PF PA Overall Pct. PF PA Home Away Neutral Streak
Georgia Southern 6-2 .750 249 163 10-4 .714 483 308 6-1 4-3 0-0 Lost 1
Wofford 6-2 .750 222 164 9-4 .692 375 216 6-0 3-4 0-0 Lost 1
Appalachian State 6-2 .750 255 238 8-4 .667 395 352 4-3 4-1 0-0 Lost 1
The Citadel 5-3 .625 238 214 7-4 .636 328 304 4-1 3-3 0-0 Won 3
Samford 5-3 .625 191 164 7-4 .636 272 227 4-1 3-3 0-0 Lost 1
Chattanooga 5-3 .625 209 163 6-5 .545 281 224 3-2 3-3 0-0 Won 1
Furman 2-6 .250 189 229 3-8 .273 272 338 1-4 2-4 0-0 Lost 2
Elon 1-7 .125 185 260 3-8 .273 267 350 3-3 0-5 0-0 Lost 4
Western Carolina 0-8 .000 191 334 1-10 .091 257 449 1-4 0-6 0-0 Lost 10

I'm not picking on you or starting a fight but someone would have to be brain dead to not see that the best teams were GSU, Wofford, App, and Citadel. GSU and App have twice the all-time wins of Chattanooga, they actually have national titles, and regularly have All-Americans. Their better programs and as you said last year. "App State is our daddy". They still are. Nothing has changed until you beat them and GSU. They are still the top two in the SoCon at this point. However, after this season they won't be in the league anymore and I think Citadel, Wofford, Furman, and Samford will be the top four in the league most of the time with Chattanooga popping in and out of that top four I'm sure.

ETSU was not a pushover for you guys and they will recruit fairly well in the state. Like Chattanooga, they always had some good players but just weren't top teams.

Interesting stat for UTC. Last year their record was better than their all-time record as they were above .500 last year and are below .500 all-time as a program.

[GlassOnion]

Not choking is not the same as luck.

You choke, or you don't choke. App doesn't choke, Chatty does. That's why Chatty loses, a culture of choking.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Chattanooga 26.1 PPG 20.8 PPGA +5.3



I hope "the best defense in the country" does a little better than 21 ppg

[chattownmocs]

I hope "the best defense in the country" does a little better than 21 ppg

The overtime games added about 3 points to that number but it should be down below 15 this year.

[Apphole]

Horseshoes and hand grenades, chatty. Horseshoes and hand grenades.

UTC hasn't beaten App in football in your lifetime and it certainly isn't going to happen this year of all years.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The overtime games added about 3 points to that number but it should be down below 15 this year.

Gotta get lower than that to be the best, son.

[chattownmocs]

Gotta get lower than that to be the best, son.

No, 15 a game against these offense will put us at the top.

[chattownmocs]

Horseshoes and hand grenades, chatty. Horseshoes and hand grenades.

UTC hasn't beaten App in football in your lifetime and it certainly isn't going to happen this year of all years.

Yes they have, stfu.

[Apphole]

No, 15 a game against these offense will put us at the top.

You will need at least 27 points to beat Appalachian in 2013. That goes for any team not named UGA.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

No, 15 a game against these offense will put us at the top.

Well, thank goodness you don't have to play Jax State. Those middle of the road OVC teams can be a killer.

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

I think Wagenmann has a much better chance at winning it than Tripp, but we shall see

I'm excited for Wags again this year. With Holmes on the other side, our edges are going to be tough for a couple years.

[blueballs]

Of the guys I saw last year against GSU that are on the list I thought Tartt was the best, followed by Tull and Olson. Remember, this is only my rank of the guys I saw- I didn't see all of them.

[eaglewraith]

The overtime games added about 3 points to that number but it should be down below 15 this year.

Won't be 15ppg with our offensive numbers in there.

[clenz]

Good teams find ways to win at least half if their “close"games, great teams find ways to win almost all (75 percent or more) of them.

Bad teams find excuses for losing close games

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2

[chattownmocs]

Here is the winner.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7njPNOnr32M

[BisonFan02]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-_thK_S6HQ

[asumike83]

We should have 3. No Derrick Lott? BS.

Should have one. Tull is a beast.

Kimbrough Lite is a good player but doesn't belong on this list.

[chattownmocs]

Should have one. Tull is a beast.

Kimbrough Lite is a good player but doesn't belong on this list.

Interesting because he has finished 25th and 19th in the balloting the last 2 years. Very easy choice for this list. He is "lighter" than Jeremy Kimbrough and a hell of a lot better football player and always has been.

[asumike83]

Interesting because he has finished 25th and 19th in the balloting the last 2 years. Very easy choice for this list. He is "lighter" than Jeremy Kimbrough and a hell of a lot better football player and always has been.

Ha, 25th place out of 20 finalists. He got one third place vote in 2011 and finished behind 4 guys who weren't even on the ballot.

19th is pretty impressive though, just 17 spots behind his daddy. I heard he got JK's autograph after he ran back the winning pick six in 2011 though, so he'll always have that.

Kimbrough
143 tackles
12.5 TFL
4.5 sacks
1 INT

Dothard
94 tackles
6.0 TFL
0 sacks
1 INT

[smallcollegefbfan]

Here is the winner.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7njPNOnr32M

I love Tull. He's really good. I don't think he wins the award but he is certainly a candidate for it. The best defensive player in the nation I have seen on tape from last year was Stephon Robertson, Jordan Tripp, and I really love Reid and Kerr. Both of them are beasts. Kerr is going to play on Sundays and nobody in FCS talks about him. He was a big time recruit out of high school and has no baggage. He just left Maryland on his own accord unlike Derrick Lott who got kicked out of UGA. Lott will have better stats though because he isn't asked to eat the blocks and just control the line of scrimmage as much as Kerr, and he isn't as strong as Kerr. With that said, Lott does a good job and helps keep people off Tull. It will be interesting to see if Tull's numbers go up or down this year.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Interesting because he has finished 25th and 19th in the balloting the last 2 years. Very easy choice for this list. He is "lighter" than Jeremy Kimbrough and a hell of a lot better football player and always has been.

Dothard is nowhere near as good as Kimbrough. Kimbrough was really good. Had he been 6'1 he would have gotten drafted. Him being 5'9 hurt him. Kimbrough ran a 4.5 40, .2 faster than Dothard is, according to scouts, and much smaller than Kimbrough.

Dothard is an All-American for sure. He needs to step up big time this year to even be considered a legit front runner.

[tribe_pride]

I'm not saying any of these names are bad because all of them are good players but I would have just two comments.

1. Defensive ends usually get a lot of votes and there are always more than two and less than three safeties who usually end up on the list. I would put one safety and add a couple of ends.

2. Chattanooga isn't a powerhouse program so I would have put just one of their guys on the list instead of two.

My only changes would be to drop Dothard, Sachaffitzel, and Love. Then I would replace those three with Montana DE Zach Wagenmann, Harvard DE Zach Hodges, and Delaware DT Zach Kerr. Kerr is the most underrated defensive player in FCS. I would put him in the top 20 players overall if I were to put a list of the best together. Hodges was really good last year as well and Montana is a powerhouse name whose ends are always considered among the best in the nation.

With that said it's just three changes so I definitely think it's a good list. With so many good players I wish you could put 25 candidates because there is a lot of individual talent coming back.

Does this (the part in bold) mean that there are always 2 1/2 safeties on the list. Hope the guy that gets cut up doesn't get hurt too much :D

[chattownmocs]

I love Tull. He's really good. I don't think he wins the award but he is certainly a candidate for it. The best defensive player in the nation I have seen on tape from last year was Stephon Robertson, Jordan Tripp, and I really love Reid and Kerr. Both of them are beasts. Kerr is going to play on Sundays and nobody in FCS talks about him. He was a big time recruit out of high school and has no baggage. He just left Maryland on his own accord unlike Derrick Lott who got kicked out of UGA. Lott will have better stats though because he isn't asked to eat the blocks and just control the line of scrimmage as much as Kerr, and he isn't as strong as Kerr. With that said, Lott does a good job and helps keep people off Tull. It will be interesting to see if Tull's numbers go up or down this year.

Derrick Lott didn't get kicked out of Georgia. As a matter of fact they wished he would have stayed. Do your research dummy. You brag about all the tape you watch but why don't you go watch the tape of what Lott did to your beloved Georgia Southern offensive line. As far as Tull goes, the guys athleticism is just ridiculous, you can see the hops and closing speed just in this video.

[chattownmocs]

Dothard is nowhere near as good as Kimbrough. Kimbrough was really good. Had he been 6'1 he would have gotten drafted. Him being 5'10 1/2 hurt him. Kimbrough ran a 4.5 40, .2 faster than Dothard is, according to scouts, and much smaller than Kimbrough.

Dothard is an All-American for sure. He needs to step up big time this year to even be considered a legit front runner.

No he isn't. He is terribly slow and terribly short and fat. It isn't hard to put up tackles when your defense can't stop many people and your Dline leaks ball carriers left and right. If these hyped up app State defenders from last year were really any good that imagine just how awful that defense is going to be this year.

[bisonnation]

I love Emanuel and Jirik. I think Emanuel is better than people have him rated. Heagle is good but coming off an injury and has been two years since his really good season. I think he should have to go prove it this year to earn a spot. Williams clearly should be on this list. While I don't have Williams as high on my draft board as the media does he is a very good player. I have Williams as a 7th round grade.

7th round grade on Marcus Williams? Most are projecting 2nd or 3rd. He has been one on one for 2 years and I don't think he's given up a long TD pass in 2 years and already owns the career picks record. Don't forget his value as a special teams player too

[smallcollegefbfan]

Does this (the part in bold) mean that there are always 2 1/2 safeties on the list. Hope the guy that gets cut up doesn't get hurt too much :D

I meant that it should be 2 more ends and less than 3 safeties. Usually ends are more prevalent on the postseason list than what they are now but again it's not a big deal. Who knows, maybe the safeties will put up big numbers. It would be something that goes against the norm though.

[smallcollegefbfan]

7th round grade on Marcus Williams? Most are projecting 2nd or 3rd. He has been one on one for 2 years and I don't think he's given up a long TD pass in 2 years and already owns the career picks record. Don't forget his value as a special teams player too

A lot of websites are because he's a two-time All-American with a lot of picks. NFL Draft Scout will start slowly dropping him to the 5th-7th round range as we progress I think. If he was viewed in the 2nd-3rd round by NFL teams after junior tape he would have likely come out early, I would think. I don't know if you remember WIU CB Patrick Stoudamire or Richmond CB Justin Rogers who Draft Scout and others rated very high after their juniors years and they eventually dropped them into 6th-7th and 7th-FA range like they belonged. Scouts never had Stoudamire as more than a free agent and Rogers was really too limited physically in their minds to be more than a late round guy.

Williams doesn't give up deep balls but he gave up a lot of 5-12 yard catches in the playoffs. He gave up 4 or 5 against Sam Houston alone. I remember a series where he gave up 2 or so.

NFL teams who came through in the spring, and as I always say the 32 NFL teams are who counts because they pick the players, gave him 7th round or priority free agent grades. The media has him much higher due to paper scouting at this point. He's good but not freakishly fast or long like top 3 round corners from small schools usually are. Look at BW Webb who I put 3rd round value on but slipped to the 4th round because he doesn't have that length.

One other point on Williams is that he has some things off the field that will limit his stock. I love him at this level and I would personally draft him late but his 2nd-3rd round stock is smoke and mirrors at this point because NFL grades from the scouts in the spring are leaking out and he didn't get 2nd-3rd round like people thought he would. The FCS CB who got high grades, whether it turns out to be right or not, was the SLU CB Todd Washington.

[smallcollegefbfan]

No he isn't. He is terribly slow and terribly short and fat. It isn't hard to put up tackles when your defense can't stop many people and your Dline leaks ball carriers left and right. If these hyped up app State defenders from last year were really any good that imagine just how awful that defense is going to be this year.

You basing that on your eye? This proves you need to learn the game of football because I have factual proof he ran 4.5s. Go to the following links.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2013/03/24/fifteen-nfl-hopefuls-attend-appalachian-state-pro-day/

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=94440&draftyear=2013&genpos=ILB

Kimbrough ran a 4.56 and 4.59 40, verified by NFL scouts, at 5'9, 235 pounds. 235 isn't really fat because it's well proportioned. I don't think he will last more than a year or so bouncing around teams but the bottom line is that he can run. That's exactly what it says on the PDFs I have from the pro days that scouts gave me as well.

App State had new coaches and thus their unit was not as good. It will be better this year because they have a great DC who will have them much improved.

Regardless of what you think the facts are that App was a playoff team and the All-Pro team Chattanooga has was not in the playoffs.

You say the following statements are wrong and I just proved they are not wrong. Do you know what a fact is?

According to the definition they are a thing that is indisputably the case or information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.

Facts are facts. You can't dispute them and I gave you facts but you will somehow do it so go ahead. NFL scouts times trump all and Kimbrough ran 4.5 not once but twice on their clocks.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Derrick Lott didn't get kicked out of Georgia. As a matter of fact they wished he would have stayed. Do your research dummy. You brag about all the tape you watch but why don't you go watch the tape of what Lott did to your beloved Georgia Southern offensive line. As far as Tull goes, the guys athleticism is just ridiculous, you can see the hops and closing speed just in this video.

Actually, in their own way they did dismiss him. In the SEC, coaches drop players who get hurt or just aren't studs down the depth chart to force them to transfer. SEC recruits rarely are willing to sit on the bench so when he got hurt in the scooter accident he never got back into the two deep with the new recruits coming in and thus he transferred.

http://blogs.ajc.com/uga-sports-blog/2011/07/13/georgia-de-derrick-lott-out-4-6-weeks-after-injuring-leg-in-scooter-accident/

He barely played at UGA. He had 7 tackles in 3 games in 2010 and 3 tackles in 2 games in 2011. They basically forced him out by dropping him down the depth chart. He was 3rd string when he left.

If UGA wanted him back they would have bumped him up to first team and got him to stay. You can't seriously think a player would rather play at UTC than play at UGA? Did they want him as a 2nd or 3rd stringer? Maybe. I just don't think that is the case. They wanted the scholarship freed up so they could get a high school blue chip prospect at DT who might be better.

[seantaylor]

GSU will have some guys contending on post season lists. My picks are Javon Mention and Matt Dobson.

[bisonnation]

A lot of websites are because he's a two-time All-American with a lot of picks. NFL Draft Scout will start slowly dropping him to the 5th-7th round range as we progress I think. If he was viewed in the 2nd-3rd round by NFL teams after junior tape he would have likely come out early, I would think. I don't know if you remember WIU CB Patrick Stoudamire or Richmond CB Justin Rogers who Draft Scout and others rated very high after their juniors years and they eventually dropped them into 6th-7th and 7th-FA range like they belonged. Scouts never had Stoudamire as more than a free agent and Rogers was really too limited physically in their minds to be more than a late round guy.

Williams doesn't give up deep balls but he gave up a lot of 5-12 yard catches in the playoffs. He gave up 4 or 5 against Sam Houston alone. I remember a series where he gave up 2 or so.

NFL teams who came through in the spring, and as I always say the 32 NFL teams are who counts because they pick the players, gave him 7th round or priority free agent grades. The media has him much higher due to paper scouting at this point. He's good but not freakishly fast or long like top 3 round corners from small schools usually are. Look at BW Webb who I put 3rd round value on but slipped to the 4th round because he doesn't have that length.

One other point on Williams is that he has some things off the field that will limit his stock. I love him at this level and I would personally draft him late but his 2nd-3rd round stock is smoke and mirrors at this point because NFL grades from the scouts in the spring are leaking out and he didn't get 2nd-3rd round like people thought he would. The FCS CB who got high grades, whether it turns out to be right or not, was the SLU CB Todd Washington.

The Tampa 2 defense concedes shorter passes and the guy who made those plays was Richard Sincere who is a heck of a player. Besides, Williams had 2 picks in the Championship game.

FCS players rarely leave early. The exception is Taiwan Jones.

I guess well have to wait and see

[Bisonator]

MWill needs to improve on 2 things IMO.

His tackling and being a bit surprised when QB's actually throw his way. He tends to get lulled to sleep a bit by just being shied away from so much. He needs to wrap up guys not just try to knock em down like that GSU game last year.

He has all of the tools to be a shut down corner in the NFL someday. Improve a bit in those areas and he goes in round 2 or 3.

[smallcollegefbfan]

The Tampa 2 defense concedes shorter passes and the guy who made those plays was Richard Sincere who is a heck of a player. Besides, Williams had 2 picks in the Championship game.

FCS players rarely leave early. The exception is Taiwan Jones.

I guess well have to wait and see

It wasn't just that game but he had a few games where he gave up some shorter passes. There are 4 evaluators in the media who I consider to be pretty good. One of them has watched Williams and I talked to him. He said late rounds. The scouts from the spring said late rounds or PFA. I put late rounds on him. Right now the people who I would put stock in, because they have watched coach's tape on Williams, aren't saying 2nd-3rd round. You have to remember that most draft websites copy NFL Draft Scout, paper scout, and/or use highlight videos.

[smallcollegefbfan]

MWill needs to improve on 2 things IMO.

His tackling and being a bit surprised when QB's actually throw his way. He tends to get lulled to sleep a bit by just being shied away from so much. He needs to wrap up guys not just try to knock em down like that GSU game last year.

He has all of the tools to be a shut down corner in the NFL someday. Improve a bit in those areas and he goes in round 2 or 3.

One other issue is he ran mid 4.5s for the NFL scouts. To go in the top 3 rounds FCS corners need to run 4.3 or 4.4. He also has some off field concerns that could hurt his stock as well. I'm not saying he can't end up a top 3 round pick but right now GMs aren't planning to go in to NDSU quite yet and they do when small schools have top 3 round picks. A few GMs checked out Robert Alford. He's the gauge to go off of.

[Bisonator]

One other issue is he ran mid 4.5s for the NFL scouts. To go in the top 3 rounds FCS corners need to run 4.3 or 4.4. He also has some off field concerns that could hurt his stock as well. I'm not saying he can't end up a top 3 round pick but right now GMs aren't planning to go in to NDSU quite yet and they do when small schools have top 3 round picks. A few GMs checked out Robert Alford. He's the gauge to go off of.

If Alford is the standard then MWill is a first rounder. Their stats aren't even close. MWill has far better return game and has better size for NFL game too. If a scout is only looking at the watch he isn't doing his job very well IMO.

[smallcollegefbfan]

If Alford is the standard then MWill is a first rounder. Their stats aren't even close. MWill has far better return game and has better size for NFL game too. If a scout is only looking at the watch he isn't doing his job very well IMO.

Stats have very little to do with it. Alford is a better corner than Williams. Have you seen Alford? He can fly! Alford ran .15 faster than Williams did. The watch isn't everything but you should watch Alford. He went to Mobile and stood out. He didn't just belong he was one of the better corners there. I'm just saying that Alford needs to run very well go to in the top 3 rounds and I think people believe Williams is better because of stats but NFL scouts tell me all the time you can't fully go by stats. They look at the player and what his intangibles and physical attributes are. Are they perfect? No. Do they know more than fans and are the ones making the decisions? Yes.

Am I saying Williams can't go in the top 3 rounds? No, I'm not. I'm just saying that there are a lot of reasons he isn't rated as high as the media and fans think he is. There are some character concerns, he gets lulled asleep, gives up a lot of short passes, inconsistent tackler, and he isn't blazing fast or a freaky athlete. He is a really good player with a lot of ability but one thing you need to remember about small school players is that what makes them do so well many times is the chip on their shoulder. They feel like they have to prove themselves and so they outwork the big school guys and many times they pass them. Right now that is not the case for Williams. The public is viewing him as an elite corner and top 5 college corner who should be a top 2 round pick already and I hope he isn't losing the chip on his shoulder. Players who tend to get lulled asleep a lot show to be complacent and need to be woken up. I'm hoping that's not the case for him because I too have him as the #1 corner in FCS but he isn't rated as high by NFL scouts right now as NDSU people may think and I hope he treats this year and all-star games like he is a free agent in the minds of people and outworks and proves the critics wrong because if he begins thinking he is entitled like Tony Lezotte did then he won't get drafted and won't be in the NFL a year after finishing college like Lezotte.

Do you remember Tony Lezotte? He was a four-time All-American and told me he would be a 2nd or 3rd round pick heading into his senior year. NFL teams have Williams rated a little ahead of where they had Tony but Tony believe the fans and media. Tony got really arrogant and he slipped badly. His senior year was his worst, his numbers declined, and he didn't get a combine invite or get drafted.

I just don't want any FCS player to get cocky and become arrogant. I can name 8-10 who have in the last 5 years and every single one of them fell on draft day or did nothing in the pros and it showed that they lost that chip they one time had on their shoulder.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Stats have very little to do with it. Alford is a better corner than Williams. Have you seen Alford? He can fly! Alford ran .15 faster than Williams did. The watch isn't everything but you should watch Alford. He went to Mobile and stood out. He didn't just belong he was one of the better corners there. I'm just saying that Alford needs to run very well go to in the top 3 rounds and I think people believe Williams is better because of stats but NFL scouts tell me all the time you can't fully go by stats. They look at the player and what his intangibles and physical attributes are. Are they perfect? No. Do they know more than fans and are the ones making the decisions? Yes.

Am I saying Williams can't go in the top 3 rounds? No, I'm not. I'm just saying that there are a lot of reasons he isn't rated as high as the media and fans think he is. There are some character concerns, he gets lulled asleep, gives up a lot of short passes, inconsistent tackler, and he isn't blazing fast or a freaky athlete. He is a really good player with a lot of ability but one thing you need to remember about small school players is that what makes them do so well many times is the chip on their shoulder. They feel like they have to prove themselves and so they outwork the big school guys and many times they pass them. Right now that is not the case for Williams. The public is viewing him as an elite corner and top 5 college corner who should be a top 2 round pick already and I hope he isn't losing the chip on his shoulder. Players who tend to get lulled asleep a lot show to be complacent and need to be woken up. I'm hoping that's not the case for him because I too have him as the #1 corner in FCS but he isn't rated as high by NFL scouts right now as NDSU people may think and I hope he treats this year and all-star games like he is a free agent in the minds of people and outworks and proves the critics wrong because if he begins thinking he is entitled like Tony Lezotte did then he won't get drafted and won't be in the NFL a year after finishing college like Lezotte.

Do you remember Tony Lezotte? He was a four-time All-American and told me he would be a 2nd or 3rd round pick heading into his senior year. NFL teams have Williams rated a little ahead of where they had Tony but Tony believe the fans and media. Tony got really arrogant and he slipped badly. His senior year was his worst, his numbers declined, and he didn't get a combine invite or get drafted.

I just don't want any FCS player to get cocky and become arrogant. I can name 8-10 who have in the last 5 years and every single one of them fell on draft day or did nothing in the pros and it showed that they lost that chip they one time had on their shoulder.

I'm not sure he's such a bad tackler. He did a really good job of sealing up the end for Georgia Southern in the semi last year. I just watched that back and they were talking about his ability in that type of run game.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I'm not sure he's such a bad tackler. He did a really good job of sealing up the end for Georgia Southern in the semi last year. I just watched that back and they were talking about his ability in that type of run game.

I didn't say he was a bad tackler. Go back and look and you see I said inconsistent.

He sometimes tackles well but there are times on tape during his junior year where he missed badly. Some players are scared to tackle so at least he isn't. Just saying he is consistently great in that area.

[Bisonator]

We'll see what happens. Alford may be faster, a lot of guys may be faster, all that "southern speed" you know!

BTW where did you have Alford going before last year?

[smallcollegefbfan]

We'll see what happens. Alford may be faster, a lot of guys may be faster, all that "southern speed" you know!

BTW where did you have Alford going before last year?

Here are some of his highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqukk6URfH4

I had Alford in the 6th-7th round preseason and my final projection was 2nd-3rd round. He is a different story from Williams. Alford was not an All-American until last year and he started his career slow because he got hurt and sat out in 2010. His first year back he had 5 picks, returned one for a touchdown, and then last year he had 4 picks, 8 pass breakups, 14.1 punt return average, 1 PR TD, and he played offense as well. You don't find many players so athletic they can play all three ways. He improved his technique big time last year and showed to be an outstanding athlete.

These are the NFL verified workout numbers on Alford.

5'11, 186, 4.34-4.37 40, 40 VJ, 11'0 BJ, 4.23 short shuttle, 6.89 3-cone, and did 17 bench reps.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

SCFBF, do you think TJ Lee has a shot to play in the NFL, or is he too small?

[smallcollegefbfan]

SCFBF, do you think TJ Lee has a shot to play in the NFL, or is he too small?

I rarely use size at the 100% factor to keep a player out of the NFL. The fact is that his size doesn't help him but it's still possible. I can tell you that he is on the NFL's watch lists so he will get looks this year. Because of his size he will need to run very well and have a strong postseason overall to get more than a tryout or be considered a camp body. I have him rated as a free agent right now but as you know that could change for better or worse, depending on the tape and his postseason.

[lionsrking2]

If Alford is the standard then MWill is a first rounder. Their stats aren't even close. MWill has far better return game and has better size for NFL game too. If a scout is only looking at the watch he isn't doing his job very well IMO.

Put the pipe down.

[bojeta]

Add Sullivan Grosz to the list. Don't ask questions, just add him ;)

[smallcollegefbfan]

Add Sullivan Grosz to the list. Don't ask questions, just add him ;)

I have him rated higher than a DT or two who is on the Buchanan list. He's a good player. I would rank him the #3 DT in FCS at this point. Only Kerr and Reid would be ahead of him in my opinion.

[slostang]

I have him rated higher than a DT or two who is on the Buchanan list. He's a good player. I would rank him the #3 DT in FCS at this point. Only Kerr and Reid would be ahead of him in my opinion.

Where do you have Nick Dzubnar and Johnny Millard ranked as far as LBs go. Dzubnar is moving Mike (MLB) to replace Kenny Jackson so I think his numbers will only go up and he had over 100 tackles in 2012. Millard will move to the other inside spot to fill Dzubnar's 2012 spot. Millard played there in 2010 and 2011 and I think it is his more natural spot. Filling Millard's OLB spot will be Wisconsin LB Cameron Ontko and he is the fastest and most cut of the three. I really do think that Cal Poly's starting three LBs is one of the top set of LBs in the FCS.

[BisonFan02]

Where do you have Nick Dzubnar and Johnny Millard ranked as far as LBs go. Dzubnar is moving Mike (MLB) to replace Kenny Jackson so I think his numbers will only go up and he had over 100 tackles in 2012. Millard will move to the other inside spot to fill Dzubnar's 2012 spot. Millard played there in 2010 and 2011 and I think it is his more natural spot. Filling Millard's OLB spot will be Wisconsin LB Cameron Ontko and he is the fastest and most cut of the three. I really do think that Cal Poly's starting three LBs is one of the top set of LBs in the FCS.

edit, read as top set instead of "one of"....I would agree with that.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Where do you have Nick Dzubnar and Johnny Millard ranked as far as LBs go. Dzubnar is moving Mike (MLB) to replace Kenny Jackson so I think his numbers will only go up and he had over 100 tackles in 2012. Millard will move to the other inside spot to fill Dzubnar's 2012 spot. Millard played there in 2010 and 2011 and I think it is his more natural spot. Filling Millard's OLB spot will be Wisconsin LB Cameron Ontko and he is the fastest and most cut of the three. I really do think that Cal Poly's starting three LBs is one of the top set of LBs in the FCS.

Dzubnar is definitely in the top 40 or so. There are a lot of really good LBs in FCS. I don't think Cal Poly has one elite LB from last year returning but they have a great group and the entire starting lineup should be very good. I don't know of many LB corps in FCS better. I would have to really look at it but I would say they are top 5 or so for sure.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

I rarely use size at the 100% factor to keep a player out of the NFL. The fact is that his size doesn't help him but it's still possible. I can tell you that he is on the NFL's watch lists so he will get looks this year. Because of his size he will need to run very well and have a strong postseason overall to get more than a tryout or be considered a camp body. I have him rated as a free agent right now but as you know that could change for better or worse, depending on the tape and his postseason.

Yeah, that's what I kind of figured. Thanks!

[UMaineD]

Michael Cole from Maine would have been on if he hadn't had an injury. He will be added once the season gets underway