app and gsu travel in 2014

[FCSfan]

as a general discussion point, I wonder what opinions app and gsu fans have about the new travel sites in 2014 and whether or not their respective schools will attend far away campuses that aren't "big name" programs...

[pike51]

GSU fans will attend away games. Always have, always will.

[FCSfan]

no doubt they have one of the best followings in the fcs. I know they didn't travel well when they went through the tough few years prior to monken. these new destinations are farther away and I assume winning will be required.

[Apphole]

I'm excited to travel to cajun country and Texas State. I may not be able to make every single away game like I did with the SoCon, but I'm more than willing to trade that for the opportunity to visit impressive FBS venues rather than tiny thimble stadiums with whine and cheese crowds.

[asumike83]

Won't be able to make all the games like the SoCon but I know I'll still be making some road games every year. I assume most App fans who travel now are in the same boat.

I will make every home game and all the road games that are driving distance. As for the long trips, my plan is to make one a year and eventually see a game at every venue in the conference.

[Saint3333]

Texas St. (friends in Austin)
GA St. (take the kids to the aquarium)
NMST (never been to NM)
ULL (tailgaiting)
USA (if in September - long weekend at beach)

Hopefully JMU if they wake up.

[FCSfan]

I've heard much about the excitement of moving "up" and rightfully so but are any of you going to miss the socon?
apphole has never seemed a fan of socon schools or the wine and cheese. are you thinking that running the socon table
this year will help with the totally new schedule next year? and will any of you miss socon foes (wine or not)?

[Apphole]

I've heard much about the excitement of moving "up" and rightfully so but are any of you going to miss the socon?
apphole has never seemed a fan of socon schools or the wine and cheese. are you thinking that running the socon table
this year will help with the totally new schedule next year? and will any of you miss socon foes (wine or not)?

I will miss the SoCon, don't get me wrong. This has been our home for longer than I've been a fan and it's all I've known. I think running the SoCon table this year will be great and I think that a totally new schedule the following year will be great independently.

Anyway, you don't need to put quotes around up, as the FCS/FBS hierarchy is indisputable.

[FCSfan]

no offense.
talking with app fans it's evident that there is still those confused about moving to another level with no realistic goals of championships like you have annually in the fcs. I agree with the move. but there is a valid argument that it isn't a sure move "up". "another" level with new goals for sure...

[asumike83]

Definitely going to miss the SoCon in some ways. With the exception of Samford/UTC, every school in the conference is within 3.5 hours from home. Also going to miss the history and rivalries that have developed, particularly with Furman.

[GlassOnion]

but there is a valid argument that it isn't a sure move "up". "another" level with new goals for sure...

No there isn't.

[FCSfan]

app/fur has always been fun to watch. you think any of the socon teams will remain on schedule for app or gsu?

[FCSfan]

nothing else but such a definitive statement?

[GlassOnion]

nothing else but such a definitive statement?

Being on TV > Not being on TV
Being paid to be on TV > having to pay.
85 Scholarships > 63
FBS Facilities > FCS
20,000 avg. attendance > 10,000 or less

[FCSfan]

excellent points but not assured. i'll be pulling for the gun toting longbeards for sure. do you think winning has to happen fast to keep your awesome attendance at home games commonplace? fans liked to see winners take the field before the buy cokes and hotdogs.

not bashing the move, just looking for well thought out opinions. again, I support the move UP

[GlassOnion]

App's attendance will never sink to average FCS levels. Without App and GSU, Socon attendance falls to ~9,000 a game, and will fall even further with its new additions. No way App attendance falls by 2/3. App and GSU are where they should be, Wofford, Furman and Elon are where they should be, but that does not make both of those "wheres" equal.

[FCSfan]

more good points. but i'm looking at winning producing numbers in the seats and bank.
losing to a wofford, furman or even citadel does not make ticket buyers smile.
how much more will losing to teams most don't know "where" they're from or what there mascot
is make those same ticket holders frown? not saying that app/gsu will lose...just discussing.
and i'm not convinced by anybody's input that where you should be is relevant

[Apphole]

no offense.
talking with app fans it's evident that there is still those confused about moving to another level with no realistic goals of championships like you have annually in the fcs. I agree with the move. but there is a valid argument that it isn't a sure move "up". "another" level with new goals for sure...

Some might be happy staying at a LOWER level, but that doesn't make it any less of a lower level.

[FCSfan]

many a fbs team has more difficulty with the socon (or fcs) schools than they do with anyone from the sunbelt...but alas it is a LOWER level

[GlassOnion]

more good points. but i'm looking at winning producing numbers in the seats and bank.
losing to a wofford, furman or even citadel does not make ticket buyers smile.
how much more will losing to teams most don't know "where" they're from or what there mascotis make those same ticket holders frown? not saying that app/gsu will lose...just discussing.
and i'm not convinced by anybody's input that where you should be is relevant

You think most people know where Wofford or Furman are from, or what their mascot is? Are you nuts?

[cmaxwellgsu]

Ga St.-20 minutes from the house, will take longer to park than to get there
Troy- not too bad of a trip
UL- I've heard nothing but awesome things about going there
ULM- might even get to visit the Duck Commander warehouse
USA- Mobile is a cool town

The others are a little far for me, but I wouldn't mind visiting Texas St., state, or NMSU. I don't think I'll ever even look into going to Idaho.

[FCSfan]

app fans do and that's the point

[Apphole]

many a fbs team has more difficulty with the socon (or fcs) schools than they do with anyone from the sunbelt

That's not even the slightest bit true...

[GlassOnion]

many a fbs team has more difficulty with the socon (or fcs) schools than they do with anyone from the sunbelt...but alas it is a LOWER level

Yeah, sure. When is the last time a Socon team had an impressive victory over an FBS team, and which Socon team was that...

[GlassOnion]

app fans do and that's the point

And they'd have never heard of those two if App hadn't been in the Socon. Now App is in the Belt, and App fans will know who the Belt members are. So what? There will be whole future generations of App fans that will never hear of Furman and Wofford.

Your trolling is weak.

[FCSfan]

just discussing mr onion. not attacking. again, I support the move, simply enjoy arguing points.
sorry to have disturbed the bee's nest (or corn still as it were). off to work

[FCSfan]

heard it was below zero in Idaho in august....don't blame you

[Bisonator]

I'm excited to travel to cajun country and Texas State. I may not be able to make every single away game like I did with the SoCon, but I'm more than willing to trade that for the opportunity to visit impressive FBS venues rather than tiny thimble stadiums with whine and cheese crowds.

In the Sunbelt? Or do you mean OOC? Cause I don't think anyone would consider the SBC venues as impressive!

[AppChicago]

I used to travel across the country to see App play in Boone at least once a year. Now that I live an easy driving distance from The Rock, no reason I can't make at least one long-distance game.

[Saint3333]

In the Sunbelt? Or do you mean OOC? Cause I don't think anyone would consider the SBC venues as impressive!

http://www.collegegridirons.com/sunbelt.htm

I think these may be a step up from the SoCon venues.

[GlassOnion]

In the Sunbelt? Or do you mean OOC? Cause I don't think anyone would consider the SBC venues as impressive!

Impressively uninformed post, sir, nicely done.

[Apphole]

In the Sunbelt? Or do you mean OOC? Cause I don't think anyone would consider the SBC venues as impressive!

Well maybe you should do some google image searches....

The worst SBC venue is significantly better than the best remaining SoCon member..

[Bisonator]

http://www.collegegridirons.com/sunbelt.htm

I think these may be a step up from the SoCon venues.

That may be but I still wouldn't call them "impressive FBS venues"! If anything I would call them below average which is the very description of the SBC as an FBS conference!

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that you all are happy to be moving "up", just don't make it out as something it's not to rile up your former conference mates.

[Apphole]

That may be but I still wouldn't call them "impressive FBS venues"! If anything I would call them below average which is the very description of the SBC as an FBS conference!

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that you all are happy to be moving "up", just don't make it out as something it's not to rile up your former conference mates.
The relative size and niceness as compared to the BCS is moot. The comparison of SBC venues to FCS venues, where we were, is important because it shows our UPWARD movement.

Why not compare Wake's stadium to Bank of America stadium while you're at it next time? Your spin job is tired and weak.

[GlassOnion]

That may be but I still wouldn't call them "impressive FBS venues"! If anything I would call them below average which is the very description of the SBC as an FBS conference!

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that you all are happy to be moving "up", just don't make it out as something it's not to rile up your former conference mates.

Don't make the FCS out to be something that its not. The entire FCS, in the realm of college football, is "below average." You've got non-scholarship teams playing right beside 63 scholarship teams, and no standards. You've got teams with autobids from one and done conferences, and an ever expanding playoff field with a shrinking number of competitive teams. There are atrocious facilities, even by high school stadium standards. There is little to any media coverage, and out of the vast majority of college football fans, you'd be hard pressed to find a measurable number that would agree that the FCS is anywhere close to equal with even the lowest FBS conference outside of this little bastion of mediocrity.

[Bisonator]

I'm simply calling a spade a spade. You said "impressive FBS venues" and the SBC venues are simply NOT compared to all other FBS venues. Was just trying to figure out what impressive FBS venues you were hinting at and assumed OOC ones like Michigan!

[Saint3333]

Michigan is actually not very nice, if you mean big, I'd agree.

110k seats and 500 porta-potties.

[GlassOnion]

I'm simply calling a spade a spade. You said "impressive FBS venues" and the SBC venues are simply NOT compared to all other FBS venues. Was just trying to figure out what impressive FBS venues you were hinting at and assumed OOC ones like Michigan!

Michigan is a top 10 college football stadium. I guess using a top 10 CFB stadium as the "average" would make pretty much everything sub par, wouldn't it?

Now, where's my coffee cup...

[Bisonator]

Michigan is actually not very nice, if you mean big, I'd agree.

110k seats and 500 porta-potties.

I've never been to Michigan for a game. Looks "impressive" on TV though! :D

[Bisonator]

Michigan is a top 10 college football stadium. I guess using a top 10 CFB stadium as the "average" would make pretty much everything sub par, wouldn't it?

Now, where's my coffee cup...

And how would you categorize the SBC compared to the B1G, B12, SEC, ACC, PAC, exactly?

[HappyAppy]

That may be but I still wouldn't call them "impressive FBS venues"! If anything I would call them below average which is the very description of the SBC as an FBS conference!

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that you all are happy to be moving "up", just don't make it out as something it's not to rile up your former conference mates.

Lets say I work a job that pays $50K and get a new job that pays $100k. I say I'm moving up to a better job then I had before. The guy who makes $50k at my old job says "Enjoy moving "up" but you wont be making anywhere close to $700k."

That would be a ridiculous thing to say. It makes no sense. That is basically what you just said.


The relative size and niceness as compared to the BCS is moot. The comparison of SBC venues to FCS venues, where we were, is important because it shows our UPWARD movement.

Why not compare Wake's stadium to Bank of America stadium while you're at it next time? Your spin job is tired and weak.

Amen.

We are moving up. Nobody said we are going to be on par (or even close to the same level) as the big BCS programs. We are not moving up to the SEC, and nobody ever claimed we were. We are moving from the bottom tier of Div. 1 to the middle tier of Div. 1. Sounds like a move up to me, no "" needed.

[GlassOnion]

And how would you categorize the SBC compared to the B1G, B12, SEC, ACC, PAC, exactly?

When it comes to facilities like we're talking about, the SB has facilities on par with a number of teams from those conferences. Duke, Wake Forest, just down the road, and in company with schools like Mississippi, Nevada.

All of them much better than FCS venues.

[Bisonator]

Whatever. I'll let you guys get back to the travel discussion. Sorry for the thread drift!

[AtlantaMountaineer]

Really hoping for away games at GA State and Tx State in 2014 as I live 7 miles from the GA Dome and have good friends in San Antonio and Louisiana. Looking forward to trips to Troy, USA and the Louisiana schools as well. Idaho no way. NMSU maybe.

[Apphole]

Whatever. I'll let you guys get back to the travel discussion. Sorry for the thread drift!

Leaves with tail between his legs

[CID1990]

Being on TV > Not being on TV

We'll all be sure to watch you guys play ULL on ESPN22.

[Apphole]

We'll all be sure to watch you guys play ULL on ESPN22.

Well we won't miss a minute of El Cid vs Mercer on no tv. xlolx Little men.

[CID1990]

Well we won't miss a minute of El Cid vs Mercer on no tv. xlolx Little men.

The difference is that we don't care about TV.

Little men? 52-28

[Bisonator]

Leaves with tail between his legs

Stay classy.

[GlassOnion]

The difference is that we don't care about TV.


Love it. Cant have it? Just pretend you don't want it. xlolx

Guess that's why the last thread created on the Citadel forum is entitled, "Interesting Idea for FCS Coverage," because "we" don't care about coverage.

[Saint3333]

The difference is that we don't care about TV.

Little men? 52-28

This must be what it feels like when a Michigan alum runs into an App St. fan.

[Waco Kid]

I'm looking forward to having new matchups and getting to go to new places. As others have said I won't be able to see as many road games, but there is a lot of excitement to be playing our new conference mates. Plus we will actually have some games on TV so hopefully some of those road games we can't make will be televised. We have a lot of good memories from the SoCon, and I will miss a few of the rivalries we have there. I won't miss playing in stadiums that are half empty with crowds that don't have any energy in them.

Places I do plan on traveling to regularly include: G. Southern, G. State, Troy, and S. Alabama. For an important matchup through in the Louisiana schools. At some point I'd like to visit Ark. State and Tx. State as well. More importantly I hope to have OOC games against regional FBS teams like ECU, Marshall, Wake, VT, MTSU, ODU, and UNCC.

And I can assure you the vast majority of App and GSU fans are well aware of the location of our new conference mates.

[Waco Kid]

The difference is that we don't care about TV.

Which is why the SoCon is prefect for Citadel and not for App and GSU.

[SpeedkingATL]

I've been pretty comfortable being able to attend most road games over the last 2 decades since few have been played west of the Mississippi. All SoCon games were within easy driving distance of ATL with The Rock being one of the longest trips. I'll still attend most of the road games within a 6 hour drive and will make the occasional trips to NM, Idaho, TX and OOC such as Michigan. I travel a lot on business so the airline miles and hotel points come in real handy for those. The SoCon is all I've known for App and I will miss some of the trips, especially to Charleston but Mobile will be an okay tradeoff for that one. Furman has been a very good football rival and I'll miss that one. It will be nice to have the 10 minute drive to GaState and I look forward to playing Troy again.

[blueballs]

Say what you will about the relative merits of FCS vs. FBS but it is hard to beat the road trips in the SoCon... Savannah, Charleston, Greenville, Chatty, Boone, and Cullowhee are must see places, and all within reasonable driving distance of each other.

[CID1990]

Love it. Cant have it? Just pretend you don't want it. xlolx

Guess that's why the last thread created on the Citadel forum is entitled, "Interesting Idea for FCS Coverage," because "we" don't care about coverage.

You don't see us or Wofford or Furman complaining about the SoCon (much less talking about leaving) because of a lack of TV exposure. It just isn't that much of a priority, and that has been said here a thousand times if it has been said once. Being on TV is nice but it just isn't the priority for most SoCon schools. Why don't you go find a thread where a plurality of fans from any of those schools is complaining about not having a conference TV contract?

ASU is not going to the Sun Belt for the TV exposure. If that is what the school is selling then somebody should be fired. ASU is going to the Sun Belt in order to make the FBS move while the iron is hot. That way you can eventually move to CUSA (a much better fit, IMO) or another conference and THEN ASU will enjoy much more TV exposure. But nobody is buying the Sun Belt = significant TV exposure.

In about 3-4 years you guys are going to be chomping at the bit to move to a different conference, and TV time is going to be a part of the reason. It's not a knock on ASU- I think moving to FBS is a good move, but the Sun Belt is a placeholder for you guys and you know it.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[CID1990]

Which is why the SoCon is prefect for Citadel and not for App and GSU.

Precisely.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

The others are a little far for me, but I wouldn't mind visiting Texas St., state, or NMSU. I don't think I'll ever even look into going to Idaho.

Anyone know anything about the hunting in Idaho? Maybe that'll be a good hunting weekend/trip?

[Eaglesrus]

I will continue to go to as many away games as possible, but think it will be fewer than I've been attending in the SoCon. It will have nothing to do with wins and losses, everything to do with economics.

[EKU-n-GSU]

Anyone know anything about the hunting in Idaho? Maybe that'll be a good hunting weekend/trip?

Depending on what time of year that game would be scheduled, I can envision great fly-fishing or hunting opportunities w/an extra day or two thrown into the trip. Can't imagine wanting to do a two-day turnaround that far out.

[813Jag]

Ga St.-20 minutes from the house, will take longer to park than to get there
Troy- not too bad of a trip
UL- I've heard nothing but awesome things about going there
ULM- might even get to visit the Duck Commander warehouse
USA- Mobile is a cool town

The others are a little far for me, but I wouldn't mind visiting Texas St., state, or NMSU. I don't think I'll ever even look into going to Idaho.
UL-L is a lot of fun, lots of places to drink and party if you're into that. Bonus New Orleans is about 2 hours away.

[TheRevSFA]

UL-L is worth the trip. ULM..not os much. stAte looks great..I mean..really great..like a college built in commie Russia times.

Texas State has done a great job in renovating Bobcat Stadium, but with the exception of the opener, they didn't draw dick for attendance.

Also when you tailgate, try not to get hit by the train that runs between the tailgating lots and the stadium

[Lehigh'98]

Well maybe you should do some google image searches....

The worst SBC venue is significantly better than the best remaining SoCon member..

You seem to go out of your way to bash the SoCon and FCS. No one says App didn't make the right move for themselves by moving up. The majority of fans really don't care that much as it doesn't affect their team and I wish you all the best of luck. FCS will go on though. The reason most teams are FCS is because they don't have the attendance App does. Doesn't stop the fans from following though.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You seem to go out of your way to bash the SoCon and FCS. No one says App didn't make the right move for themselves by moving up. The majority of fans really don't care that much as it doesn't affect their team and I wish you all the best of luck. FCS will go on though. The reason most teams are FCS is because they don't have the attendance App does. Doesn't stop the fans from following though.

This post pretty much says it all.

[ThompsonThe]

Seems as if it has been trolling really by fcsFan. Going back and following this thread from the get go makes it seem a little different. Every 2nd or 3d post is fcsFan asking more and more egging on questions designed to facilitate some App State fan to make a critical statement about the FCS. Even after the most ardent FBS proponent of App stated that he would miss the So Con and FCS. I know people are bored waiting on football season, but baiting to get fans to argue isn't great. I know of very few App State fans that wouldn't say they care a great deal for the FCS and the teams and most of the posters in it. We don't really have a lot bad to say about it except things like the lack of television exposure and the weird set up by the NCAA that has schools having anywhere from zero to 63 football scholarships. I kind of look forward also toward seeing who takes over the lead in the SoCon and how things shake out. But wish all FCS schools well, especially those we have played a lot.

[CID1990]

We don't really have a lot bad to say about it except things like the lack of television exposure

lol

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/13/a2e8e7ys.jpg




Sent from the center of the universe.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

as a general discussion point, I wonder what opinions app and gsu fans have about the new travel sites in 2014 and whether or not their respective schools will attend far away campuses that aren't "big name" programs...


I'm excited to travel to cajun country and Texas State. I may not be able to make every single away game like I did with the SoCon, but I'm more than willing to trade that for the opportunity to visit impressive FBS venues rather than tiny thimble stadiums with whine and cheese crowds.


Seems as if it has been trolling really by fcsFan. Going back and following this thread from the get go makes it seem a little different. Every 2nd or 3d post is fcsFan asking more and more egging on questions designed to facilitate some App State fan to make a critical statement about the FCS. Even after the most ardent FBS proponent of App stated that he would miss the So Con and FCS. I know people are bored waiting on football season, but baiting to get fans to argue isn't great. I know of very few App State fans that wouldn't say they care a great deal for the FCS and the teams and most of the posters in it. We don't really have a lot bad to say about it except things like the lack of television exposure and the weird set up by the NCAA that has schools having anywhere from zero to 63 football scholarships. I kind of look forward also toward seeing who takes over the lead in the SoCon and how things shake out. But wish all FCS schools well, especially those we have played a lot.

You could be right Thompson and I'm sure your sentiments in this post are the sentiments of many. However if you look at the orig. post and the first response from Appholio I think you'll see why these things quickly degenerate.

It's been the tactic of a few for quite some time so I think you can see why the post from Lehigh was put up. The trolling and disrespect you were pointing to comes from only a few but it is more on one side than what fcsfan may have been trying to do.

[BisonFan02]

You could be right Thompson and I'm sure your sentiments in this post are the sentiments of many. However if you look at the orig. post and the first response from Appholio I think you'll see why these things quickly degenerate.

It's been the tactic of a few for quite some time so I think you can see why the post from Lehigh was put up. The trolling and disrespect you were pointing to comes from only a few but it is more on one side than what fcsfan may have been trying to do.

I pretty much expect every thread that I open with the words App St and GSU in them to devolve into a few fans thumbing their nose to FCS...and from there it spirals into the usual pissing match (one of many themes that frequent AGS at times). The season can't come soon enough.

[hapapp]

I pretty much expect every thread that I open with the words App St and GSU in them to devolve into a few fans thumbing their nose to FCS...and from there it spirals into the usual pissing match (one of many themes that frequent AGS at times). The season can't come soon enough.

I sometimes have the discipline to avoid opening certain threads because I know some folks can't resist getting in their digs about the FCS. I was at ASU when we joined the SoCon in the early 70's. It has been a good home complete with some great rivalries that made our membership all the worthwhile. We are making the move to the FBS and I'm excited about the future challenge, and it will be a great challenge. However, that excitement doesn't have to include bashing those who remain in the SoCon and the FCS. I guess some folks like to do that to make themselves feel special or perhaps they can't engage in a discussion with someone else without inserting some sort of put down.

[AshevilleApp2]

I sometimes have the discipline to avoid opening certain threads because I know some folks can't resist getting in their digs about the FCS. I was at ASU when we joined the SoCon in the early 70's. It has been a good home complete with some great rivalries that made our membership all the worthwhile. We are making the move to the FBS and I'm excited about the future challenge, and it will be a great challenge. However, that excitement doesn't have to include bashing those who remain in the SoCon and the FCS. I guess some folks like to do that to make themselves feel special or perhaps they can't engage in a discussion with someone else without inserting some sort of put down.

Well put.

[ThompsonThe]

You could be right Thompson and I'm sure your sentiments in this post are the sentiments of many. However if you look at the orig. post and the first response from Appholio I think you'll see why these things quickly degenerate.

It's been the tactic of a few for quite some time so I think you can see why the post from Lehigh was put up. The trolling and disrespect you were pointing to comes from only a few but it is more on one side than what fcsfan may have been trying to do. True that things do come from both, but it's akin to poking the bear. You know what you are going to get, seen it before, let's see it again, obviously some are having a good time doing it, but it doesn't help matters. Makes us look bad for responding the way we do, but no response is not good either. Of course people are going to pile on after awhile from other schools, hard not to when they have just read several pages of increasing advocacy of things that might be changed or that people do not like. Guess I just as well shut up about it because people are not going to change.

[Apphole]

You seem to go out of your way to bash the SoCon and FCS. No one says App didn't make the right move for themselves by moving up. The majority of fans really don't care that much as it doesn't affect their team and I wish you all the best of luck. FCS will go on though. The reason most teams are FCS is because they don't have the attendance App does. Doesn't stop the fans from following though.

Not knocking the SoCon and certainly not going out of my way, just putting the move into perspective. I'm sorry if the truth hurts, but I didn't go out of my way to rub it in. I love and respect the SoCon but their venues are worlds below the Sun Belt.

Some of you are just itching to be offended and are saying all the right things to elicit honest statements that will do just that.

[CID1990]

I sometimes have the discipline to avoid opening certain threads because I know some folks can't resist getting in their digs about the FCS. I was at ASU when we joined the SoCon in the early 70's. It has been a good home complete with some great rivalries that made our membership all the worthwhile. We are making the move to the FBS and I'm excited about the future challenge, and it will be a great challenge. However, that excitement doesn't have to include bashing those who remain in the SoCon and the FCS. I guess some folks like to do that to make themselves feel special or perhaps they can't engage in a discussion with someone else without inserting some sort of put down.

It is really only 3 guys on this forum, hardly a representative majority of ASU/GSU fans.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[FCSfan]

again, sorry for any offenses I may have caused (esp toward mr hole or mr onion). I was NOT trolling, trawling or tractor pulling as some seemed to accuse. just like to have intelligible conversations.

[CID1990]

again, sorry for any offenses I may have caused (esp toward mr hole or mr onion). I was NOT trolling, trawling or tractor pulling as some seemed to accuse. just like to have intelligible conversations.

LOL @ Mr Hole

[The Cats]

Stay classy.

You're kidding right?