Stony Brook loses All-American tackle

[smallcollegefbfan]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/stony-brook-michael-bamiro-ineligible-ncaa-supplemental-draft-free-agent-070813

[SumItUp]

Huge loss for the Seawolves!

[citdog]

At least this young man will be free to sign with whatever NFL team has the greatest need at his position and not be stuck with whoever drafted him had he been subject to the supplemental draft.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Wow, odd development.

[pike51]

So why exactly is he ineligible?

[dewey]

So why exactly is he ineligible?

I just read the article quickly and it said he was enrolled at the U of Pitt in 2008 then decided he wanted to play football so he transferred to Stony Brook where he redshirted and then started playing in 2010. Sounds like the 5 years of elgibility starts once you enroll in school. His started in 2008 at Pitt and ended last year with Stony Brook.

Here is an excerpt from the article.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/stony-brook-michael-bamiro-ineligible-ncaa-supplemental-draft-free-agent-070813

It's a quirky development that, sources say, began to formulate in the spring when Bamiro learned from his coaches that a waiver to give him another year of eligibility was going to be denied by the NCAA because Bamiro attended the University of Pittsburgh in 2008. Even though he didn't play football at Pitt, the clock on his eligibility started ticking.

The 6-foot-8, 335-pound Bamiro then decided he wanted to play football, so he transferred to Stony Brook, where one of his brothers (David) was once a linebacker, while another (Solomon) played basketball. (Solomon, known as "Bam Bam," is now a member of the Harlem Globetrotters.)

Michael Bamiro sat out the 2009 season with a redshirt designation after transferring. In 2010, he stepped in as the Seawolves' starting right tackle, a position he held for three seasons. Bamiro, a first-team All-Big South selection last season, was expecting to stay there in 2013, only to learn his college career was over and that he wouldn't be subject to the supplemental draft.

Dewey

[MplsBison]

While I'm a huge proponent of giving all NCAA student athletes 5 years to play 5 seasons, I guess I don't understand why that clock has to start just because you enrolled at a school.

If you didn't participate on the team, you didn't participate.


Seems like he should have one more year at Stony to finish that 5th year.

[dewey]

While I'm a huge proponent of giving all NCAA student athletes 5 years to play 5 seasons, I guess I don't understand why that clock has to start just because you enrolled at a school.

If you didn't participate on the team, you didn't participate.


Seems like he should have one more year at Stony to finish that 5th year.

That would make sense but we are talking about the NCAA afterall.

Dewey

[walliver]

While I'm a huge proponent of giving all NCAA student athletes 5 years to play 5 seasons, I guess I don't understand why that clock has to start just because you enrolled at a school.

If you didn't participate on the team, you didn't participate.


Seems like he should have one more year at Stony to finish that 5th year.

It's a coaching/athletic department issue. It was the job of somebody in the athletic department to determine his eligibility when he transferred so that he could avoid the red-shirt year.

Allowing an extra year could lead to abuse, especially at Big 5 level. Since linemen rarely play as RS-freshman, Alabama could have a player enroll in school but not participate for a year, then take a red-shirt year and then be eligible to play while between the ages of 20-24.

[smallcollegefbfan]

It's a coaching/athletic department issue. It was the job of somebody in the athletic department to determine his eligibility when he transferred so that he could avoid the red-shirt year.

Allowing an extra year could lead to abuse, especially at Big 5 level. Since linemen rarely play as RS-freshman, Alabama could have a player enroll in school but not participate for a year, then take a red-shirt year and then be eligible to play while between the ages of 20-24.

One difference here. He did not sign a scholarship to play football. He was not listed among their class at Pitt in 2008. He chose to play football a year later. I see what you are saying but I think there should have been an exception here. Had SBU known this was possible I think Priore would have played him instead of redshirting him.

[rokamortis]

One difference here. He did not sign a scholarship to play football. He was not listed among their class at Pitt in 2008. He chose to play football a year later. I see what you are saying but I think there should have been an exception here. Had SBU known this was possible I think Priore would have played him instead of redshirting him.

The potential for the big schools to use this as a precedence and abuse the hell out of it probably has the NCAA shaking in their boots.

If he truly didn't want to play football and switched, yes I agree he should be the exception. Did he try to walk-on at the other school and not make it? Did he work out with the team at all? He doesn't have to be on the roster to have participated with the team.

[smallcollegefbfan]

The potential for the big schools to use this as a precedence and abuse the hell out of it probably has the NCAA shaking in their boots.

If he truly didn't want to play football and switched, yes I agree he should be the exception. Did he try to walk-on at the other school and not make it? Did he work out with the team at all? He doesn't have to be on the roster to have participated with the team.

That I don't know but one problem with the big boys using it is first of all they would try to abuse that with good players. You can't get 3, 4, and 5 star players that others really want to just go to school without a football scholarship, not be with the team, and then join the team a year later and still get those big time players. If Alabama tires it LSU and others will say look we want you right now. You don't have to wait. Come here. They don't really want you or else they would offer you a full ride and put you on the team now. Bamiro may have tried to play but I'm told he was not on the team. I think this is just a weird situation and I would have given him another year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That I don't know but one problem with the big boys using it is first of all they would try to abuse that with good players. You can't get 3, 4, and 5 star players that others really want to just go to school without a football scholarship, not be with the team, and then join the team a year later and still get those big time players. If Alabama tires it LSU and others will say look we want you right now. You don't have to wait. Come here. They don't really want you or else they would offer you a full ride and put you on the team now. Bamiro may have tried to play but I'm told he was not on the team. I think this is just a weird situation and I would have given him another year.

That's a good point. Despite everything, the NCAA could have granted him a waiver to allow him to play.

I'm not sure the NFL is all that happy to see him become a free agent, incidentally. I think he's going to have a truckload of teams beating down his door for the services of a 6'8, 330-lb guard, without being tied to a team in the draft.

[MplsBison]

It's a coaching/athletic department issue. It was the job of somebody in the athletic department to determine his eligibility when he transferred so that he could avoid the red-shirt year.

Allowing an extra year could lead to abuse, especially at Big 5 level. Since linemen rarely play as RS-freshman, Alabama could have a player enroll in school but not participate for a year, then take a red-shirt year and then be eligible to play while between the ages of 20-24.

I'm certain this is already happening to some extent. I think the term is called "gray-shirt".

And if not outright enrolling the student at school but then just not letting him participate with the team the first year - then they'll just stash the player at another school for the year. Either JC or a "prep school".


I know Minnesota did this with one of their starting OT. Sent him to a prep school in Virginia for a year to get better grades while still playing football and getting bigger, faster, stronger, etc. Now he starts for the Gophers and didn't lose a year with the NCAA.



So in any case, there just needs to be a very well defined, universally understood definition for "this is when your NCAA clock starts for sport X". Once that clock starts, it can't be stopped by any event. Doesn't matter if you tear your knee your senior year. That's just how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

But you can participate and play as much as possible during that clock. No more such thing as "red-shirts", they're meaningless in that context.

[WWII]

Your clock starts when you are enrolled as a full time student or are on scholorship. Gray shirts enroll part time and pay their own way. This way heir clock doesn't start. Obviously, in this case he was full-time at Pitt, so the clock started.

[Seawolf97]

This came out of no where today. He was just named an All American maybe ten days ago. I wish him well and I'm sure he will find a home in the NFL , good deal is he gets to pick his home.

[heath]

While I'm a huge proponent of giving all NCAA student athletes 5 years to play 5 seasons, I guess I don't understand why that clock has to start just because you enrolled at a school.

If you didn't participate on the team, you didn't participate.


Seems like he should have one more year at Stony to finish that 5th year.

If you haven't accumulated enough credits to graduate in 5 years,how would you have been eligible to play anyway by minimum credits per semester.If he has graduated from SB, then move on and stop trying to use the system. Very similar to Kyle Long enrolling at FSU to play baseball in 2008,ended up at Oregon and was also denied an extra year,so he made himself eligible for the draft. Some people(and schools) are on top of things and some aren't.

[TheBoyWhoSeaWolf]

I don't know what surprised me more, the fact that we lost one of our best player out of nowhere, or the fact that his brother is named Bam Bam Bamiro, is a Harlem Globetrotter, and a Sea Wolf as well.

[Franks Tanks]

If you haven't accumulated enough credits to graduate in 5 years,how would you have been eligible to play anyway by minimum credits per semester.If he has graduated from SB, then move on and stop trying to use the system. Very similar to Kyle Long enrolling at FSU to play baseball in 2008,ended up at Oregon and was also denied an extra year,so he made himself eligible for the draft. Some people(and schools) are on top of things and some aren't.

It is very easy to remain eligible, but not be close to graduating even after 5 years. I believe a player must carry at least 12 credits and maintain a certain GPA to stay eligible. If a player transfers or changes majors, they can be still quite a way from an undergrad degree by taking 3-4 classes per semester. It really doesn't take much to stay eligible, and the whole "making progress toward a degree" rule seems very vague.

[rokamortis]

I don't know what surprised me more, the fact that we lost one of our best player out of nowhere, or the fact that his brother is named Bam Bam Bamiro, is a Harlem Globetrotter, and a Sea Wolf as well.

Did this really come out of nowhere or you just didn't hear about it before? The article states the school filed a waiver - how long ago did they file? Why didn't the school realize this was a problem when he transferred?

[walliver]

I'm certain this is already happening to some extent. I think the term is called "gray-shirt".

And if not outright enrolling the student at school but then just not letting him participate with the team the first year - then they'll just stash the player at another school for the year. Either JC or a "prep school".


I know Minnesota did this with one of their starting OT. Sent him to a prep school in Virginia for a year to get better grades while still playing football and getting bigger, faster, stronger, etc. Now he starts for the Gophers and didn't lose a year with the NCAA.



So in any case, there just needs to be a very well defined, universally understood definition for "this is when your NCAA clock starts for sport X". Once that clock starts, it can't be stopped by any event. Doesn't matter if you tear your knee your senior year. That's just how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

But you can participate and play as much as possible during that clock. No more such thing as "red-shirts", they're meaningless in that context.

The usual definition of gray-shirt is a player whose scholarship starts in January. At the end of the fall season, scholarships are taken away from athletes who have exhausted their eligibility and do not plan to graduate and given to the gray-shirts. In some cases the athlete enrolls in school and practices with the team and it counts as a redshirt year, in other cases the athlete sits out a semester and practices in the spring and can still take a red-shirt year. It's amazing that the big boys feel that 85 scholarships isn't enough.

I have never heard the term used for athletes parked at prep schools, who are usually their for academic reasons.

[GannonFan]

Sounds like another story of the NCAA being particularly anti-student athlete. Not even really newsworthy anymore, just the way things are.

[BEAR]

Some athletes are already enrolled for summer terms. Maybe those hours count toward the total hours required for the fall semester?

[TheBoyWhoSeaWolf]

Did this really come out of nowhere or you just didn't hear about it before? The article states the school filed a waiver - how long ago did they file? Why didn't the school realize this was a problem when he transferred?

Whoever did know about it managed to keep it under wraps, thus Bamiro being named FCS First Team All American just a few days ago. It sounds to me like some assumptions were made, like the coaching staff/AD had assumed the application would be accepted. Of course, we all know what happens when one ASS U ME s too much.

[MplsBison]

Your clock starts when you are enrolled as a full time student or are on scholorship. Gray shirts enroll part time and pay their own way. This way heir clock doesn't start. Obviously, in this case he was full-time at Pitt, so the clock started.

Assuming you are correct about the five year clock starting when you enroll full time -- that's an incorrect policy, in my opinion.


For example, this scenario: an all-state player decides he doesn't want to play the sport in college and enrolls full-time to pursue academics. In the first two years, he has had zero participation with the athletics team at the school. However, starting in his third year of full-time enrollment he decides to change his mind and play for the team. According to the incorrect NCAA policy, his clock only has two years remaining.

The clock should've never started.


The start of the clock should only be linked to some minimum participation threshold. That's the only logical and reasonable way to determine when someone's clock starts.



I know some narrow-minded, rigid thinker will say "but that means he will be at the school for seven years!!!!". A) no it doesn't, he could choose to leave school and the team when he graduates and B) so what if he does? That's his choice. He can either choose to pursue a graduate degree or change his undergraduate degree.

[MplsBison]

If you haven't accumulated enough credits to graduate in 5 years,how would you have been eligible to play anyway by minimum credits per semester.If he has graduated from SB, then move on and stop trying to use the system. Very similar to Kyle Long enrolling at FSU to play baseball in 2008,ended up at Oregon and was also denied an extra year,so he made himself eligible for the draft. Some people(and schools) are on top of things and some aren't.

Just because you have enough credits to graduate doesn't mean you have to graduate. He can just keep taking classes and compile as many credits as he wants so long as his eligibility clock has not run out.

OR he could pursue a graduate degree.


Both of those are legitimate ways to extend school time past five years if there is still time left on the eligibility clock.

[MplsBison]

The usual definition of gray-shirt is a player whose scholarship starts in January. At the end of the fall season, scholarships are taken away from athletes who have exhausted their eligibility and do not plan to graduate and given to the gray-shirts. In some cases the athlete enrolls in school and practices with the team and it counts as a redshirt year, in other cases the athlete sits out a semester and practices in the spring and can still take a red-shirt year. It's amazing that the big boys feel that 85 scholarships isn't enough.

I have never heard the term used for athletes parked at prep schools, who are usually their for academic reasons.

Fair enough, that makes sense.

So then back to your point: so what if a player enrolls full time for a year and doesn't participate with the team? That should not start the clock!

Only participation with the team should start the clock. I fail to see how any school would gain an advantage by having an athlete enroll but then be unable to gain any benefit of participating with the team for a year. It would be basically like the player went to a JC or a prep school for a year - except he didn't get to do anything football related for that year. Seems pretty disadvantageous!

[tribe_pride]

How did this come as a surprise to anyone who knew he enrolled at Pitt in 2008? It's a black and white rule (with Medical red-shirt as the only exception) that you can play 4 seasons of a sport in 5 years after you enroll in school.

Feel bad for him that he was told differently by those who should have known better. Never heard of an exception given to anyone for this.

[Mr. C]

Totally bogus move from the NCAA.

[clenz]

Cut and dry rule...the second you step on campus your clock starts if you're in a sport or not. No one should be shocked by this

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[MplsBison]

Cut and dry rule...the second you step on campus your clock starts if you're in a sport or not. No one should be shocked by this


No one is debating what the rule says now.

We're debating the fact that it's a horse***t rule.

[andy7171]

I think this is the same rule that caused our QB Grant Enders his 5th year at Towson.

[tribe_pride]

No one is debating what the rule says now.

We're debating the fact that it's a horse***t rule.

Disagree. This makes for an easy 2 (or more) years of redshirt. Schools would have the "Club" team for Freshmen and maybe some other older students until you want to put them on the College roster to redshirt such players for an additional year. Somehow many of these "Club" players will be receiving non-athletic scholarships or aid so they won't have to pay to go to school during those times and then will receive athletic scholarships once they make the college team.

[Nova09]

Fair enough, that makes sense.

So then back to your point: so what if a player enrolls full time for a year and doesn't participate with the team? That should not start the clock!

Only participation with the team should start the clock. I fail to see how any school would gain an advantage by having an athlete enroll but then be unable to gain any benefit of participating with the team for a year. It would be basically like the player went to a JC or a prep school for a year - except he didn't get to do anything football related for that year. Seems pretty disadvantageous!

What would your thoughts be if he participated with a different team (as in, different sport)? Do you think after running track for 4 years on scholarship a student should be eligible for the next 4 years on the football team? This is a serious question, I'm trying to fully understand where you stand on this.

[URMite]

So...

Since Richmond now waives tuition for Virginia residents whose household income is <$60k, changing the above rule in order that a student (who had yet to pay tuition) could decide in his third year to play football for 4 years would be helpful to our program.

On the other hand, as it now stands if I never played organized sports at any level and attended Richmond for 4 years (& graduated) in the 1980s, made the decision to change my career and train as an attorney (without any financial assistance), I would be ineligible to walk-on as a NCAA Division I placekicker?

[MplsBison]

What would your thoughts be if he participated with a different team (as in, different sport)? Do you think after running track for 4 years on scholarship a student should be eligible for the next 4 years on the football team? This is a serious question, I'm trying to fully understand where you stand on this.

No, you get one clock for all sports/activities that the NCAA covers.

So long as you don't meet a minimum participation threshold with any varsity (NCAA) team, your clock doesn't start. That could mean you just don't play sports period or it could mean you just played on club teams or other non-professional teams.


But once your clock starts, you should get five years to participate as much as you choose, in as many sports as you choose that are governed by the NCAA.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No, you get one clock for all sports/activities that the NCAA covers.

So long as you don't meet a minimum participation threshold with any varsity (NCAA) team, your clock doesn't start. That could mean you just don't play sports period or it could mean you just played on club teams or other non-professional teams.


But once your clock starts, you should get five years to participate as much as you choose, in as many sports as you choose that are governed by the NCAA.

Be prepared for a whole bunch of 25 yr old seniors.

[MplsBison]

Disagree. This makes for an easy 2 (or more) years of redshirt. Schools would have the "Club" team for Freshmen and maybe some other older students until you want to put them on the College roster to redshirt such players for an additional year. Somehow many of these "Club" players will be receiving non-athletic scholarships or aid so they won't have to pay to go to school during those times and then will receive athletic scholarships once they make the college team.

OK, if you get an athletic scholarship then your clock starts, even if you're not participating with the team.

So it's either receiving the athletic scholarship or passing a minimum participation threshold that should start your 5 year participation clock with the NCAA. That's all sports, all schools, all divisions. You get five years to do whatever you can do starting from that clock start.

[MplsBison]

Be prepared for a whole bunch of 25 yr old seniors.

Like BYU?

[MplsBison]

The other problem here is that the normal NCAA convention currently understood is football players get five years to play four seasons.

So if a player initially goes to a BCS team out of high school, decides it's not right for him and transfers down to a FCS team - he can still technically get 100% of his season participation with that FCS team because he'll have four years left to play those four seasons.


That's what I think people are missing here.


Basically what I'm arguing for is that *under the right circumstances* a player should still be able to have a full five years at the FCS school after transferring. Now whether or not such a player should be able to play four seasons or five seasons in those five years is really a different conversation. But in my opinion, again under the right circumstances, the five year clock shouldn't have started just because he initially went somewhere on it's own accord.

Obviously great care must be taken to write the rules so that advantage can't be taken of the system.

[clenz]

Like BYU?

They've never enrolled that's a different story.


There is a easy way around what you're saying should happen.

A kid gets recruited, "decides he didn't want to pay on college" so his clock direct start but enrolls at a school that recruited him. Aftera year of still working out and training he decides he wants to play again and then gets 5 years...


Yeah, no

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[clenz]

then juco years shouldn't count...2 years juco and 5 on campus...I mean he wasn't in the ncaa jurisdiction during that time

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[MplsBison]

They've never enrolled that's a different story.


There is a easy way around what you're saying should happen.

A kid gets recruited, "decides he didn't want to pay on college" so his clock direct start but enrolls at a school that recruited him. Aftera year of still working out and training he decides he wants to play again and then gets 5 years...


Yeah, no

What does "after a year of still working out and training" mean, in your hypothetical above?

If it means that he trained and worked out with the team while receiving an athletic scholarship, then obviously no one would argue that his clock should've started.

If it means that he worked out on his own with no assistance or interaction with any team member, coach or trainer and received no athletic scholarship, I don't think you've got a leg to stand on to deny him a delayed clock start.


It's no difference than just delaying your decision to enroll in school period by a year and in the meantime (while working full-time, perhaps) to continue lifting weights, running, etc.

[MplsBison]

then juco years shouldn't count...2 years juco and 5 on campus...I mean he wasn't in the ncaa jurisdiction during that time


That's correct.

What's your argument against that?


Or again, what if a high school all-state player simply decides not to go to college at all for two years after high school? He works full time, lifts weights, etc. Then changes his mind, enrolls full time and walks on to the program.

Why should he lose two years from his clock?

[Nova09]

I like the rule the way it is. The ideal behind the NCAA is that student-athletes have a "normal" college experience and also happen to be playing a sport while doing so. Obviously not everyone fits into "normal" whether we're looking strictly at the athlete population or students as a whole. But the "normal" that the NCAA wants to stay in line with is attending college immediately or shortly after high school graduation and earning a degree in about 4 years. Obviously there are 5 and 6 year degree programs and students who take longer than 4 years to complete a 4 year degree, but a lot of that is caught simply by having the 5th year available as a year of eligibility. NCAA Div I does not want student-athletes older than what we typically think of in society as "college age" because that is not the product they are promoting. There are cases where someone older than a traditional student plays, either because he has never started his clock or was granted a waiver, but the rules are written to guide everything toward the ideal I wrote in the second sentence. And there are always possible waivers in extenuating circumstances.

[tribe_pride]

OK, if you get an athletic scholarship then your clock starts, even if you're not participating with the team.

So it's either receiving the athletic scholarship or passing a minimum participation threshold that should start your 5 year participation clock with the NCAA. That's all sports, all schools, all divisions. You get five years to do whatever you can do starting from that clock start.

Think you misunderstood what I was saying.

What I was saying was if you started the clock when the students joined the team, schools would start a club or intramural team so they are not playing for the school. Players on the club team would somehow receive an academic scholarship or other type of non-athletic scholarship aid until the year when they would be added to the Schools team. At that point (more than 1 year after enrolling at the school), the student would receive an athletic scholarship. By when you want the clock to start, the player's 5 years would only start when moving on to the team when they have previously been training on the club team which while not part of the team would be affiliated with the school.

That is just one easy way I thought of that some of the bigger schools could build up their own minor league system and I am sure they'd have a number of Alumni willing to fund the "academic scholarships" for these club players. I am sure there would be other ways that would be thought of.

I can see students playing in their 5th year as many do take up to 5 years to graduate these days but I don't think we should be encouraging students to try to stay in school for 6 and 7 years which is what your scenario does.

[MplsBison]

I like the rule the way it is. The ideal behind the NCAA is that student-athletes have a "normal" college experience and also happen to be playing a sport while doing so. Obviously not everyone fits into "normal" whether we're looking strictly at the athlete population or students as a whole. But the "normal" that the NCAA wants to stay in line with is attending college immediately or shortly after high school graduation and earning a degree in about 4 years. Obviously there are 5 and 6 year degree programs and students who take longer than 4 years to complete a 4 year degree, but a lot of that is caught simply by having the 5th year available as a year of eligibility. NCAA Div I does not want student-athletes older than what we typically think of in society as "college age" because that is not the product they are promoting. There are cases where someone older than a traditional student plays, either because he has never started his clock or was granted a waiver, but the rules are written to guide everything toward the ideal I wrote in the second sentence. And there are always possible waivers in extenuating circumstances.


Sorry Nova, but your way of thinking is simply wrong.

There should be no "ideal". There should be no "normal" college experience.


Heck, the fact that football players usually stay in the program for five years instead of graduating in four years is already a deviation, is it not?


Sorry but I reject your way of thinking on its face. That's the old way of thinking and it's time to retire it for good.

[MplsBison]

Think you misunderstood what I was saying.

What I was saying was if you started the clock when the students joined the team, schools would start a club or intramural team so they are not playing for the school. Players on the club team would somehow receive an academic scholarship or other type of non-athletic scholarship aid until the year when they would be added to the Schools team. At that point (more than 1 year after enrolling at the school), the student would receive an athletic scholarship. By when you want the clock to start, the player's 5 years would only start when moving on to the team when they have previously been training on the club team which while not part of the team would be affiliated with the school.

That is just one easy way I thought of that some of the bigger schools could build up their own minor league system and I am sure they'd have a number of Alumni willing to fund the "academic scholarships" for these club players. I am sure there would be other ways that would be thought of.

I can see students playing in their 5th year as many do take up to 5 years to graduate these days but I don't think we should be encouraging students to try to stay in school for 6 and 7 years which is what your scenario does.

That already happens now, in division III. There are supposed to be no "athletic scholarships" in that division. But players there get all kinds of scholarships which are not athletic based but they get them because they're playing.


And again, it does not encourage any student-athlete to stay in school longer. Just because you have a five year clock doesn't in any way mean you must or even should use it all. If you only need two more years to graduate and you know you're not going to contribute significantly to the team, absolutely you should give up your remaining eligibility.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I like the rule the way it is. The ideal behind the NCAA is that student-athletes have a "normal" college experience and also happen to be playing a sport while doing so. Obviously not everyone fits into "normal" whether we're looking strictly at the athlete population or students as a whole. But the "normal" that the NCAA wants to stay in line with is attending college immediately or shortly after high school graduation and earning a degree in about 4 years. Obviously there are 5 and 6 year degree programs and students who take longer than 4 years to complete a 4 year degree, but a lot of that is caught simply by having the 5th year available as a year of eligibility. NCAA Div I does not want student-athletes older than what we typically think of in society as "college age" because that is not the product they are promoting. There are cases where someone older than a traditional student plays, either because he has never started his clock or was granted a waiver, but the rules are written to guide everything toward the ideal I wrote in the second sentence. And there are always possible waivers in extenuating circumstances.

+1. Important again to note that the NCAA could have reviewed the kids' circumstances and issued a waiver anyway. The NCAA is the judge, jury and executioner of the kids' eligibility in this case.

Again, I'm also not sure this kid is exactly sad about "losing" his senior year. As a result he'll have teams beating down his door for a 6'8 A-A guard they can get to play this year. He'll get a better salary than had he went in the draft. Matter of fact, he might have graduated from SBU already - does anyone know?

[tribe_pride]

That already happens now, in division III. There are supposed to be no "athletic scholarships" in that division. But players there get all kinds of scholarships which are not athletic based but they get them because they're playing.


And again, it does not encourage any student-athlete to stay in school longer. Just because you have a five year clock doesn't in any way mean you must or even should use it all. If you only need two more years to graduate and you know you're not going to contribute significantly to the team, absolutely you should give up your remaining eligibility.

And D-III players have no ability to redshirt and are only eligible for 4 years so that makes that point irrelevant. Those D-III schools are not building up the internal "minor league programs" which would happen if we started the clock when you want to in addition to the other issues I presented.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[MplsBison]

And D-III players have no ability to redshirt and are only eligible for 4 years so that makes that point irrelevant. Those D-III schools are not building up the internal "minor league programs" which would happen if we started the clock when you want to in addition to the other issues I presented.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

The discussion has nothing to do with redshirting in of itself. Perhaps DIII players only have four year clocks instead of a five year clocks. That's irrelevant to the discussion.

The only thing that's relevant is when should a player's clock start and arguments to support that position.


You argue against having the clock start determined only by two criteria: 1) when a player starts receiving an athletic scholarship or 2) when the player has passed a minimum participation threshold. Your supporting argument for this is a hypothetical scenario you've concocted to circumvent these two criteria in a way you feel is meaningful.

If I understand correctly, your scenario can essentially be boiled down to this: school X will "arrange" for a player coming out of high school to enroll full-time at the school and a) train/participate on some local, non-professional team that is not the varsity (NCAA) team for the school and b) receive financial contributions of some sort that technically do not amount to any kind of athletic scholarship.


Is that correct?

[Seawolf97]

+1. Important again to note that the NCAA could have reviewed the kids' circumstances and issued a waiver anyway. The NCAA is the judge, jury and executioner of the kids' eligibility in this case.

Again, I'm also not sure this kid is exactly sad about "losing" his senior year. As a result he'll have teams beating down his door for a 6'8 A-A guard they can get to play this year. He'll get a better salary than had he went in the draft. Matter of fact, he might have graduated from SBU already - does anyone know?

He has not graduated but with his size 6' 8 345 and the ability to go down field on a block he will be on some starting NFL roster this season.

[clenz]

Serious question....

How has he not graduated? His major is listed as journalism, which according to the SBU website is an 8 semester major (including gen eds and not taking any summer classes). That assumes one averages 15 credits a semester, as the plan lays out. 15 is an average number of credits to take per semester. Maybe he only took 12 during the fall semesters, but a couple summer classes fills that up real easy.

He went to Pitt for a year and spenT 4 at SBU. Did none of his Pitt credits transfer?


I went to a private school for a semester then transferred to a CC, and only 3 of my 15 credits from the private school went with me. I then went from that CC to UNI to do my major. I graduated completely in 4.5 years (124 credits)....that last semester was nothing except and internship that I could have done sooner but decided not too and "coast" through my last semester of classwork. I essentially graduated in 3.5 years.

[MplsBison]

Why is such a simple concept so hard to comprehend for some?

Just because you have enough credits to graduate does not in any way, shape or form mean that you're forced to graduate. End

[Lastofthepatriots90]

He has not graduated but with his size 6' 8 345 and the ability to go down field on a block he will be on some starting NFL roster this season.

He did graduate...Or at least they're saying he did
http://www.goseawolves.org/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/070913aaa.html

"Bamiro graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree in journalism in May.

Bamiro was the third person in his family to graduate from Stony Brook. His brother, David, played football and was invited to Minnesota Vikings training camp. His brother, Solomon, played basketball and was signed by the Harlem Globetrotters. "

[Lehigh Football Nation]

He did graduate...Or at least they're saying he did
http://www.goseawolves.org/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/070913aaa.html

"Bamiro graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree in journalism in May.

Bamiro was the third person in his family to graduate from Stony Brook. His brother, David, played football and was invited to Minnesota Vikings training camp. His brother, Solomon, played basketball and was signed by the Harlem Globetrotters. "

Thanks for the find. So he has his degree, and he's a free agent who will get paid better than a normal sixth-round draft pick. Basically, this is an excellent deal for this young man, even if it came about in a quirky way.

[MplsBison]

Nonetheless, if he had even a half year left on his clock and a season of eligibility left...he could've started his pursuit of a graduate degree at Stony Brook, which as an AAU school obviously has one of the top graduate programs to offer.

Maybe he would've only completed 6 graduate credits before leaving for an NFL career, but how long do those last? Once retired, he could come back to SB to finish his grad degree and move on to do great things in the world.


Not that he won't with his undergrad degree...but still...the young man wanted to stay at the school. Seems the NCAA failed him to some degree.

[heath]

Sorry Nova, but your way of thinking is simply wrong.

There should be no "ideal". There should be no "normal" college experience.


Heck, the fact that football players usually stay in the program for five years instead of graduating in four years is already a deviation, is it not?


Sorry but I reject your way of thinking on its face. That's the old way of thinking and it's time to retire it for good.

You are so uneducated on anything to do with this thread. 5 years to play 4 period. If you or your kid did not comply, then get over it.There is always an ideal and normal college experience,and if you did not get it then too damn bad. BTW, PL schools and Ivy schools should be a model when talking about student athletes. School and careers come first,and idiots like yourself are left to do and post exactly what you doxnodx Grow up and get a F-ing cluexconfusedx

[heath]

Why is such a simple concept so hard to comprehend for some?

Just because you have enough credits to graduate does not in any way, shape or form mean that you're forced to graduate. End

Then stop living in your parents basement,put on the big boy pants, and get a LIFE

[clenz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOsQ2epsI2M&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[MplsBison]

You are so uneducated on anything to do with this thread. 5 years to play 4 period. If you or your kid did not comply, then get over it.There is always an ideal and normal college experience,and if you did not get it then too damn bad. BTW, PL schools and Ivy schools should be a model when talking about student athletes. School and careers come first,and idiots like yourself are left to do and post exactly what you doxnodx Grow up and get a F-ing cluexconfusedx

Five calendar years to participate in as many contests, in as many sports as you can within that window is the only possible correct answer.

The discussion is how to correctly determine when that window starts. Feel free to join in on that discussion if you can muster anything intelligent to add.

[bluehenbillk]

Signed with the Eagles today - probably thru Tra Thomas connection.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Signed with the Eagles today - probably thru Tra Thomas connection.

Really good pickup. I think he plays within two years. Has a lot of upside. Just needs coaching. I would have named him a preseason first-team All-American. 2nd best OT on tape of those suppose to return behind Dakota Dozier.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Good to see a happy ending for him. With the patchwork nature of the Eagles' OL, he could be starting this season.

[bluehenbillk]

Good to see a happy ending for him. With the patchwork nature of the Eagles' OL, he could be starting this season.

Actually if he can play guard or center he has a better chance of playing. With Jason Peters returning & drafting Lane Johnson in the 1st round the Eagles are set at tackle. They even moved Herremans to guard.