"The New England Champion"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2013/06/umass-trying-hard-to-represent-well-in.html


"I have a very doable plan in place," Molnar said. "All 3 [FBS] teams (UMass, UConn, BC) should play each other on an annual basis and each one of us should play 1 of the 3 New England based [FCS] teams (Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island). Not only will our fans in New England love to see who the New England champion is every year, we would certainly help elevate the [FCS] programs in the region."

I really like this idea Charley Molnar mentioned last week in his UMass Q&A. I could see a "Yankee Trophy", maybe, with three CAA FCS programs and these three FBS schools. Trouble is UNH and Maine already play for the Musket, and Brown and URI already play for the "Governor's Cup". Any room for a Yankee Trophy between the three?

I really see this as regaining a key bit of New England Football history that now has largely been lost.

[DFW HOYA]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2013/06/umass-trying-hard-to-represent-well-in.html



I really like this idea Charley Molnar mentioned last week in his UMass Q&A. I could see a "Yankee Trophy", maybe, with three CAA FCS programs and these three FBS schools. Trouble is UNH and Maine already play for the Musket, and Brown and URI already play for the "Governor's Cup". Any room for a Yankee Trophy between the three?

Holy Cross (cough, cough...)

[Sader87]

Holy Cross (cough, cough...)

As well as Harvard, Dartmouth and Yale (and to a lesser extent, CCSU, Bryant and Sacred Heart)....

The problem UMass faces (and has basically always faced) is that Amherst may as well be in Akron as far as EMass is concerned in terms of coverage, fan interest etc etc

[Go Green]

Holy Cross (cough, cough...)

C'mon dude. There are several other NE schools involved You know that.

[DFW HOYA]

Of course there are others, but HC shouldn't be ignored given its history with those schools.

[Brad82]

This is a great idea.

[Sader87]

This is a great idea.

It is a good idea and it's being implemented in hoop (in Massachusetts anyway) with the 6 D1 hoop schools in Mass (BC,BU,Harvard,HC,Northeastern and UMass) playing each other on a rotating cycle (by year) in a triple-header at the Gahhhden.

It will be harder to implement in football though imo due to less scheduling room, political squabbling between BC, UMass and UConn etc etc

I just realized that UMass-Lowell is going D1 hoop too....nothing's easy. :p

[Bogus Megapardus]

Holy Cross is one of Harvard's most-played rivals, is it not? I mean besides Bates, Williams, Wesleyan and Tufts, of course - those perennial New England powerhouses.

And Holy Cross vs. Boston College - 82 games since 1896. Doesn't that count?

[hebmskebm]

Great idea. Regional rivalries are the lifeblood of college football. No reason these schools shouldn't play one another every year.

[Sader87]

Great idea. Regional rivalries are the lifeblood of college football. No reason these schools shouldn't play one another every year.

They kind of already do. BC has played most of the CAA NE schools over the last decade. UNH, URI and Maine obviously already play one another. Holy Cross has played UMass and UNH the last two years. UConn played UMass last year and has played URI often the last decade or so....etc etc

This is basically a "plan/idea" for UMass to heighten interest in their program which is lagging at the moment.

[Bogus Megapardus]

They kind of already do. BC has played most of the CAA NE schools over the last decade. UNH, URI and Maine obviously already play one another. Holy Cross has played UMass and UNH the last two years. UConn played UMass last year and has played URI often the last decade or so....etc etc

This is basically a "plan/idea" for UMass to heighten interest in their program which is lagging at the moment.

Holy Cross vs. UMass - 50 games played since 1897

Holy Cross vs. UConn - 28 games played since 1916

Holy Cross vs. Boston College - 82 games played since 1896

And, of course:

Holy Cross vs. Harvard - 66 games played since 1904

Holy Cross vs. Dartmouth - 76 games played since 1903

Holy Cross vs. Brown - 58 games played since 1898

That's a lot of history. I'd wager to say that Holy Cross and Harvard actually are more meaningful in the extended memories of New Englanders than are UConn and BC.

[Sader87]

BC is really "New England's college football" team or it was until very recently when UConn went 1-A in 2000. It's still by far the local college football team that the "average" fan will follow in the Boston, Providence and Worcester markets. The Ivies basically lost their "extended/non-alumni" followings in the 70's (particularly Yale and Dartmouth). Holy Cross lost a lot of non-alum fans when it joined the PL. UMass, UNH, URI and Maine never really had big followings (in a large FCS or FBS way) to begin with.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Holy Cross lost a lot of non-alum fans when it joined the PL.

It's now been proved - through double-blind studies and extensive research by top scientists publishing in academic journals subject to rigorous peer review - that the cause of the apocalyptic, tumultuous decline of Holy Cross athletics is not its decision to join the Patriot League. Truth is, it's the revelation (though they had tried to keep it secret) that MSNBC's Chris Matthews is a Holy Cross alum. Tingles' connection to Mount St. James has done more harm to the Crusaders' sporting reputation than Fr. Brooks and Derek Bok possibly could have done, even if they had meant to do so.

Shame.


xnonox :)

[Sader87]

It's now been proved - through double-blind studies and extensive research by top scientists publishing in academic journals subject to rigorous peer review - that the cause of the apocalyptic, tumultuous decline of Holy Cross athletics is not its decision to join the Patriot League. Truth is, it's the revelation (though they had tried to keep it secret) that MSNBC's Chris Matthews is a Holy Cross alum. Tingles' connection to Mount St. James has done more harm to the Crusaders' sporting reputation than Fr. Brooks and Derek Bok possibly could have done, even if they had meant to do so.

Shame.


xnonox

Touche...though some on the other end of the spectrum may blame SC Justice Clarence Thomas (HC '72).

Point being, the only college team most people will follow in this region is BC and this is what UMass is desperately (some may say futilely...Flutiely???) trying to change.

[Ivytalk]

Harvard would get more mileage out of playing local rivals in OOC play than San Diego. Too bad that BU and Northeastern have dropped FB.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Touche...though some on the other end of the spectrum may blame SC Justice Clarence Thomas (HC '72).

Point being, the only college team most people will follow in this region is BC and this is what UMass is desperately (some may say futilely...Flutiely???) trying to change.


As a long-time fan of Holy Cross going back to the eighth grade (in Fitchburg, MA), I continue to maintain that HC athletics will outpace both BC and UMass in the long run. No one ever cared about BC before Doug Flutie. Besides, he's really short. I'm guessing that HC will play to 5-6,000 in the DCU center within the decade and that Powers That Be will raise funds for a shiny new Fitton Field makeover (including FieldTurf :p) as well.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Harvard would get more mileage out of playing local rivals in OOC play than San Diego. Too bad that BU and Northeastern have dropped FB.

If the rumor is true that Harvard will drop Holy Cross after next season, that's insane. They're just 35 miles apart and they have played one another for ever. I can't really believe that Harvard alums, and even current students, don't care about playing Holy Cross. Out of all the OOC games available in the region, that one really has to be #1 on the list.

[UAalum72]

Harvard would get more mileage out of playing local rivals in OOC play than San Diego. Too bad that BU and Northeastern have dropped FB.
Harvard only played Boston U. twelve times, once in the last eighteen years they had football. They only played Northeastern eight times, and never in NU's last five years. What makes you think they'd play them now?

[Ivytalk]

Harvard only played Boston U. twelve times, once in the last eighteen years they had football. They only played Northeastern eight times, and never in NU's last five years. What makes you think they'd play them now?

Who knows what Harvard thinks about OOC these days. They have no natural rivalries with most of the schools coming up in the next few years -- USD and Georgetown, to name two-- and they used to be more adventurous playing schools like W&M and Army. They had a four-year stretch against NU before they dropped the sport that was kind of fun, and HC has usually played Harvard tough. If that rivalry goes away, I agree with Bogus that it will be a shame.

[DFW HOYA]

Who knows what Harvard thinks about OOC these days. They have no natural rivalries with most of the schools coming up in the next few years -- USD and Georgetown, to name two--

Trivia fact: Harvard is the only Ivy team that has never played Georgetown.

(Given its prognosis as a non-scholarship team in a full-scholarship PL, Georgetown needs more Ivy games, not fewer.)

[Sader87]

As a long-time fan of Holy Cross going back to the eighth grade (in Fitchburg, MA), I continue to maintain that HC athletics will outpace both BC and UMass in the long run. No one ever cared about BC before Doug Flutie. Besides, he's really short. I'm guessing that HC will play to 5-6,000 in the DCU center within the decade and that Powers That Be will raise funds for a shiny new Fitton Field makeover (including FieldTurf :p) as well.

Believe me I'm usually the one to condemn BC rather than praise them...that being said, BC football has a fairly long and proud history going back to the 1930's and 1940's and their teams in the 70's were often bowl-worthy but just missed out. Flutie (who very nearly went to Holy Cross) did bring BC back into the national consciousness, but they had been there before.

As for the Fitton refurbishment, I believe that's behind the construction of the Japanese Tea Garden on the Hill.

[EmeryZach]

This is basically a "plan/idea" for UMass to heighten interest in their program which is lagging at the moment.

Interest isn't lagging, it's building. Takes time to move a team up to FBS. It's a work in progress.

[Go Green]

(Given its prognosis as a non-scholarship team in a full-scholarship PL, Georgetown needs more Ivy games, not fewer.)

I've been told that Georgetown and Dartmouth have been talking to each other to work out a series. I believe that we already have a game for 2015 in Washington. Would be great if the schools could play regularly. We've got to avenge that humiliating loss to the Hoyas from the 1916 game. xnodx

[DFW HOYA]

I've been told that Georgetown and Dartmouth have been talking to each other to work out a series. I believe that we already have a game for 2015 in Washington. Would be great if the schools could play regularly. We've got to avenge that humiliating loss to the Hoyas from the 1916 game.

The Hoyas were 9-1 that year and couldn't get Dartmouth to travel to DC, so they arranged a game in Haverhill, MA, which just happened to be the home town of its star back, Johnny Gilroy. The 10-0 win over the Indians was Georgetown's only win over an Ivy league team until 2003.

http://www.hoyafootball.com/history/gilroy.htm

[Steve81]

Interest isn't lagging, it's building. Takes time to move a team up to FBS. It's a work in progress.Definitely building. Most of our sales were non season tickets and those people did not like the games being moved from campus to Gillette. We have to build from nearly scratch. We've received a 2.5 million and 2.25 million dollar donations recently. We'll be bring games back to UMass in 2014, when the Football Champion Center and Press/Skybox are completed.

http://consigli.truelook.com/pimages/consigli/consigli_webcam_ss.1/1366705136506964/buf_7/1372321599305623.jpg

[Dakotaguy74]

I like it and believe me it's worth a drive from Providence.

[UNHWildcat18]

I still don't understand why with all this money being put into umass current stadium why not upgrade the capacity from 17-(25-30k) have most games there and play the Occasional BIG game at Gillette. I love what they are doing but what is the point if they are only going to raise the capacity from 17k to 20k or less. Personally I am rooting for Umass/BC/UCONN in every game gotta have the FBS New England Schools be successful.

[PAllen]

I still don't understand why with all this money being put into umass current stadium why not upgrade the capacity from 17-(25-30k) have most games there and play the Occasional BIG game at Gillette. I love what they are doing but what is the point if they are only going to raise the capacity from 17k to 20k or less. Personally I am rooting for Umass/BC/UCONN in every game gotta have the FBS New England Schools be successful.

+1

Are there any serious plans to expand seating at McGuirk?

[Sader87]

Never say never, but I'll be very surprised if UMass draws 25-30K regularly in Amherst playing MAC teams.

I'm curious how well UConn will draw now that they are in the AAC and not the Big East.

New England is just not a big "college football going" region in 2013. People not really affiliated to a great degree with any of the D1 schools in the region choose to do other things on Saturday and go to the Pats on Sunday.

[DFW HOYA]

I'm curious how well UConn will draw now that they are in the AAC and not the Big East.

This relates to how dependent UConn was for road crowds to fill Rentschler Stadium. The attendance figures suggest it wasn't much.

Last season, with a 5-7 record, there was a low of 33,112 for Cincinnati and a high of 37,279 for Temple, which suggests that there is probably a base of 32K fans that will attend whether it's Syracuse or SMU. Granted, road turnout will largely disappear but the stadium isn't big enough where empty seats will be a huge problem (compared to, say, Temple).

This has been an issue for other regional schools. It's hard to say what the UMass base is at this point, while BC's base is probably around 28K at this point--no school has dropped of the national map following realignment like the Eagles.

The Holy Cross range last season was 3,297 to 12,261, which suggests a base of approx. 4K and walk-up and road crowds filling out the rest. League games accounted for the two smallest attendance numbers of the year, which speak to the general lack of interest PL teams encounter outside the Lehigh Valley.

[Go Green]

The Holy Cross range last season was 3,297 to 12,261, which suggests a base of approx. 4K and walk-up and road crowds filling out the rest. League games accounted for the two smallest attendance numbers of the year, which speak to the general lack of interest PL teams encounter outside the Lehigh Valley.

HC was lousy last year. I'm sure attendance was higher in the Dominic Randolph years.

[DFW HOYA]

HC was lousy last year. I'm sure attendance was higher in the Dominic Randolph years.

It was by about 30%, but that's where the base is right now.

[Sader87]

Having gone to games at Fitton for roughly 40 years, I'd say DFW is about right. A "good crowd" in 2013 at Fitton is in the 10-15K range whereas it was probably about 18-22K from 1970-1990. There were rarely crowds below 10K from 1970-1990.

ETA: (Said in the voice of Maxwell Smart...but in this case, it's true). Would you believe HC actually had a better home average for last year's 2-9 campaign: 7,671 than they did for their last PL Championship year 2009: 7,552?

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2012.pdf

[NHwildEcat]

I like the idea...I'd leave BC out of it simply because they are not public like the other 5 mentioned.

I have said time and again, UMass needs to schedule UNH just so they can get people into the building.

[Steve81]

I like the idea...I'd leave BC out of it simply because they are not public like the other 5 mentioned.

I have said time and again, UMass needs to schedule UNH just so they can get people into the building.
We like playing UNH, but you demand a minimum of 300k. The revenue sharing for Gillette is for 150k with some potention money for a large crowd. UMaine was will to play for basically our share. We can not afford to loss money on a buy game. The math does not work at McQuirk with about 13k available to public and discount group rates.

It's possible McQuirk will be expanded but must be driven by demand. When some games return in 2014, will need to see near sell-outs to jusify an expansion. We hae just commited 34.5 Million for the new Football Facilities an Press/Sky box.

It will take us most of the decade to catch-up in FBS land, as most MAC teams have Indoor Practice Facilities.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This relates to how dependent UConn was for road crowds to fill Rentschler Stadium. The attendance figures suggest it wasn't much.

Last season, with a 5-7 record, there was a low of 33,112 for Cincinnati and a high of 37,279 for Temple, which suggests that there is probably a base of 32K fans that will attend whether it's Syracuse or SMU. Granted, road turnout will largely disappear but the stadium isn't big enough where empty seats will be a huge problem (compared to, say, Temple).

This has been an issue for other regional schools. It's hard to say what the UMass base is at this point, while BC's base is probably around 28K at this point--no school has dropped of the national map following realignment like the Eagles.

The Holy Cross range last season was 3,297 to 12,261, which suggests a base of approx. 4K and walk-up and road crowds filling out the rest. League games accounted for the two smallest attendance numbers of the year, which speak to the general lack of interest PL teams encounter outside the Lehigh Valley.

They could, of course, simply be abjectly lying about their attendance numbers.

Also, UConn was at least playing for the chance at a hslfway-decent bowl. With the AAC relegated to C-USA status, what will happen?