ESPN article: "Moving to FBS a Challenge for Most"

[Sir William]

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/79554/moving-to-fbs-a-challenge-for-most

Interesting read. Presents both sides of the coin fairly well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fewer athletes get a chance: NCAA data shows an FCS school in the top quartile sponsors 23.6 sports, compared to just 16.8 sponsored by the bottom quartile FBS schools. The total number of student-athletes also drops from 639 in the top quartile of FCS to 458 in the bottom quartile of the FBS.

Higher student fees: McNeely's presentation said schools reclassifying increase student fees by an average of $1.2 million annually to keep up with the added expenses.

That first stat is one I didn't know about. The second one I did, and it may even be a bit understated.


"The money is getting so big from the playoffs now it's clearly -- especially for a school with a budget of $7-8 million -- it's going to be a pretty nice little bump for those guys," Schemmel said.

With the added expenses, however, Schemmel says it's generally a wash, but the exposure is better.

"That's where the prestige factor comes in," he says.

The main "reason" for moving to FBS seems to be this mythical, unmeasurable value of "exposure" from Tuesday night football and/or bowl ratings that are not apples to apples comparisons. It appears to be your blind belief in "exposure" determines whether you want to move to FBS or not. You believe in it, you want it. If you see it differently, FCS is better.

[BisonFan02]

Any way we can have a separate forum for all of this FBS talk? I know it is the off season, but this topic is past dead horse at this point. Good discussion.....but does it always have to keep flooding the FCS discussion forum?

[asumike83]

I thought it was a pretty solid article. Talks about the costs and risks of an FBS move and also the reason that some have decided to take the risks.

Thanks for the link.

[Saint3333]

Throw out the Ivy leagues in those stats.

It is true some schools don't support a lot of sports. App isn't one of them.

It is also true that corporations focus on lines of business that are best for their mission statements.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That first stat is one I didn't know about. The second one I did, and it may even be a bit understated.



The main "reason" for moving to FBS seems to be this mythical, unmeasurable value of "exposure" from Tuesday night football and/or bowl ratings that are not apples to apples comparisons. It appears to be your blind belief in "exposure" determines whether you want to move to FBS or not. You believe in it, you want it. If you see it differently, FCS is better.

Well I have mentioned in the past that FBS schools normally seem to cut a men's sport to eliminate some costs and also help with the Title IX thing and the first sport to go that seems somewhat popular is wrestling if a school has it. They need to focus the money in fewer areas (football) and that's just a by product for the lower level FBS schools/leagues it seems.

On the second comment the exposure is not really mythical LFN. There is a better chance the FBS teams are gonna get it even if they are not real good. In FCS some of the top teams get some decent exposure but it is better in FBS. I only care if I (and other Griz fans, BSC fans) can see the game so that exposure just doesn't mean much to me. It matters to some others and I don't think it's as big a deal as they make it out to be but it is there.

[blueballs]

The main "reason" for moving to FBS seems to be this mythical, unmeasurable value of "exposure" ... It appears to be your blind belief in "exposure" determines whether you want to move to FBS or not. You believe in it, you want it.

That- and the incredible amount of penis envy in the GSU fanbase about all things UGA- is what the sell was for moving GSU to FBS.

[asumike83]

On the second comment the exposure is not really mythical LFN. There is a better chance the FBS teams are gonna get it even if they are not real good. In FCS some of the top teams get some decent exposure but it is better in FBS. I only care if I (and other Griz fans, BSC fans) can see the game so that exposure just doesn't mean much to me. It matters to some others and I don't think it's as big a deal as they make it out to be but it is there.

I agree. Plus, every school is different.

If I were in Montana's shoes, I'd be in no rush to go FBS. Unlike App, GSU and others who have made the move, you don't really have any local competition from FBS programs for local media coverage and fan support. UM and MSU are the "only show in town" so to speak, get most if not all of their games televised locally and don't share a state school system with a few BCS schools that take the lion's share of funding. Pretty sweet gig for y'all.

[DFW HOYA]

Interesting quote from the article: "For me, at the end of the day, it's the exposure for our university and growing our university."

If you're Directional State University, football might be the one of the only short-term means to distinguish yourself. For private schools, that is less (or not even) a concern. Lehigh isn't growing its university based on what conference it's in.

[Franks Tanks]

That first stat is one I didn't know about. The second one I did, and it may even be a bit understated.



The main "reason" for moving to FBS seems to be this mythical, unmeasurable value of "exposure" from Tuesday night football and/or bowl ratings that are not apples to apples comparisons. It appears to be your blind belief in "exposure" determines whether you want to move to FBS or not. You believe in it, you want it. If you see it differently, FCS is better.

Fair point, but you can't argue that additional exposure hasn't worked extremely well for some. Boise and UCONN being the most obvious examples that come to mind. Nevada has also had a good run in FBS. Most never see that level of success, with Idaho being perhaps the best counter example. If a school is large enough, and can fund their move properly I don't see a problem.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

On the second comment the exposure is not really mythical LFN. There is a better chance the FBS teams are gonna get it even if they are not real good. In FCS some of the top teams get some decent exposure but it is better in FBS. I only care if I (and other Griz fans, BSC fans) can see the game so that exposure just doesn't mean much to me. It matters to some others and I don't think it's as big a deal as they make it out to be but it is there.

I agree. For some, it's a BFD, others, not.

But for the sake of argument, let's compare Kent State (MAC runner-up)'s "exposure" on TV/internet and NDSU's in 2012 objectively.

Kent State

Towson (ESPN3/CSNet Local)
Kentucky (ESPN3/CSNet Local)
Buffalo (ESPNU Wednesday Night game)
Ball State (ESPN3/Ball State TV)
Army (CBS Sports Network)
Rutgers (SNY/ESPN3)
Akron (Local TV/ESPN3)
Miami (Local TV/ESPN3)
Bowling Green (Local TV/ESPN3)
Ohio (ESPNU, Friday Night game)
Northern Illinois (MAC Championship, ESPN2)
GoDaddy.Com bowl vs. Arkansas State, ESPN

NDSU
Robert Morris (Local TV/ESPN3)
Colorado State (Local TV/CBS Streaming)
PV A&M (Local TV/ESPN3)
Northern Iowa (Local TV/Panthers All-Access Streaming)
Youngstown (Local TV/ESPN3)
Indiana State (Local TV/ESPN3)
South Dakota (Midco/South Dakota Streaming)
Southern Illinois (Fox College Sports)
Missouri State (Mediacom/CBS Streaming)
South Dakota State (Fox College Sports)
Illinois State (Local TV/CBS Streaming)
Round of 16 South Dakota State (ESPN3)
Quarterfinals Wofford (ESPN PPV/ESPN3)
Semifinals Georgia Southern (ESPN2/ESPN3)
Finals Sam Houston (ESPN2/ESPN3)

Call the Fox College Sports vs. Comcast Sports Net appearances a wash (though Fox is a national channel)
Call the streaming advantage even, most all of both games stream on ESPN3 and the difference are still available

Kent State = 2 weekday ESPNU appearances, 1 ESPN2 appearance, 1 ESPN appearance in bowl, CBS Sports Network (thanks to Army game)
NDSU = 2 ESPN2 appearances

So what's the great "advantage"? The major ESPN appearances for both teams only happen in the postseason (FCS playoffs, MAC championship, Godaddy.com bowl). You're paying for the privilege of appearing on ESPNU two more times? And a better choice for NDSU in terms of FBS games would almost certainly have resulted in a game on the Pac 12 Network or another similar outlet.

Also worthy of mention is that Kent State didn't have 2-3 games televised at all, even locally, while NDSU's were completely televised.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I agree. For some, it's a BFD, others, not.

But for the sake of argument, let's compare Kent State (MAC runner-up)'s "exposure" on TV/internet and NDSU's in 2012 objectively.

Kent State

Towson (ESPN3/CSNet Local)
Kentucky (ESPN3/CSNet Local)
Buffalo (ESPNU Wednesday Night game)
Ball State (ESPN3/Ball State TV)
Army (CBS Sports Network)
Rutgers (SNY/ESPN3)
Akron (Local TV/ESPN3)
Miami (Local TV/ESPN3)
Bowling Green (Local TV/ESPN3)
Ohio (ESPNU, Friday Night game)
Northern Illinois (MAC Championship, ESPN2)
GoDaddy.Com bowl vs. Arkansas State, ESPN

NDSU
Robert Morris (Local TV/ESPN3)
Colorado State (Local TV/CBS Streaming)
PV A&M (Local TV/ESPN3)
Northern Iowa (Local TV/Panthers All-Access Streaming)
Youngstown (Local TV/ESPN3)
Indiana State (Local TV/ESPN3)
South Dakota (Midco/South Dakota Streaming)
Southern Illinois (Fox College Sports)
Missouri State (Mediacom/CBS Streaming)
South Dakota State (Fox College Sports)
Illinois State (Local TV/CBS Streaming)
Round of 16 South Dakota State (ESPN3)
Quarterfinals Wofford (ESPN PPV/ESPN3)
Semifinals Georgia Southern (ESPN2/ESPN3)
Finals Sam Houston (ESPN2/ESPN3)

Call the Fox College Sports vs. Comcast Sports Net appearances a wash (though Fox is a national channel)
Call the streaming advantage even, most all of both games stream on ESPN3 and the difference are still available

Kent State = 2 weekday ESPNU appearances, 1 ESPN2 appearance, 1 ESPN appearance in bowl, CBS Sports Network (thanks to Army game)
NDSU = 2 ESPN2 appearances

So what's the great "advantage"? The major ESPN appearances for both teams only happen in the postseason (FCS playoffs, MAC championship, Godaddy.com bowl). You're paying for the privilege of appearing on ESPNU two more times? And a better choice for NDSU in terms of FBS games would almost certainly have resulted in a game on the Pac 12 Network or another similar outlet.

Also worthy of mention is that Kent State didn't have 2-3 games televised at all, even locally, while NDSU's were completely televised.

It's a good example LFN but if we went down through the MAC and SBC and compared it to say the top 4 FCS conferences I'd think it would match up well as far as the leagues. I haven't looked but appreciate the post put up cuz it does a good job of analyzing those two.xthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's a good example LFN but if we went down through the MAC and SBC and compared it to say the top 4 FCS conferences I'd think it would match up well as far as the leagues. I haven't looked but appreciate the post put up cuz it does a good job of analyzing those two.xthumbsupx

Thanks. I think it supports your assertion that there is a difference, but it's very slight, at least with the CAA/MVFC/Big Sky. Where you start to see a gap is the SoCon IMO, though those ESPN2 games are available to any FCS schools that make the semifinals/finals.

[asumike83]

I agree. For some, it's a BFD, others, not.

But for the sake of argument, let's compare Kent State (MAC runner-up)'s "exposure" on TV/internet and NDSU's in 2012 objectively.

Kent State

Towson (ESPN3/CSNet Local)
Kentucky (ESPN3/CSNet Local)
Buffalo (ESPNU Wednesday Night game)
Ball State (ESPN3/Ball State TV)
Army (CBS Sports Network)
Rutgers (SNY/ESPN3)
Akron (Local TV/ESPN3)
Miami (Local TV/ESPN3)
Bowling Green (Local TV/ESPN3)
Ohio (ESPNU, Friday Night game)
Northern Illinois (MAC Championship, ESPN2)
GoDaddy.Com bowl vs. Arkansas State, ESPN

NDSU
Robert Morris (Local TV/ESPN3)
Colorado State (Local TV/CBS Streaming)
PV A&M (Local TV/ESPN3)
Northern Iowa (Local TV/Panthers All-Access Streaming)
Youngstown (Local TV/ESPN3)
Indiana State (Local TV/ESPN3)
South Dakota (Midco/South Dakota Streaming)
Southern Illinois (Fox College Sports)
Missouri State (Mediacom/CBS Streaming)
South Dakota State (Fox College Sports)
Illinois State (Local TV/CBS Streaming)
Round of 16 South Dakota State (ESPN3)
Quarterfinals Wofford (ESPN PPV/ESPN3)
Semifinals Georgia Southern (ESPN2/ESPN3)
Finals Sam Houston (ESPN2/ESPN3)

Call the Fox College Sports vs. Comcast Sports Net appearances a wash (though Fox is a national channel)
Call the streaming advantage even, most all of both games stream on ESPN3 and the difference are still available

Kent State = 2 weekday ESPNU appearances, 1 ESPN2 appearance, 1 ESPN appearance in bowl, CBS Sports Network (thanks to Army game)
NDSU = 2 ESPN2 appearances

So what's the great "advantage"? The major ESPN appearances for both teams only happen in the postseason (FCS playoffs, MAC championship, Godaddy.com bowl). You're paying for the privilege of appearing on ESPNU two more times? And a better choice for NDSU in terms of FBS games would almost certainly have resulted in a game on the Pac 12 Network or another similar outlet.

Also worthy of mention is that Kent State didn't have 2-3 games televised at all, even locally, while NDSU's were completely televised.

The FCS national champion who does not have an FBS school in their state is not in the same situation as most FCS programs in terms of media availability. Most FCS schools don't have the luxury of local television coverage for all their games.

Appalachian played one game that was on television in 2012, the game at ECU which aired locally on Fox Sports because of their TV deal. The coverage that Kent State or NDSU got would be an enormous increase for us.

[Saint3333]

Compare SoCon TV games to Sun Belt, I look forward to your report.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The FCS national champion who does not have an FBS school in their state is not in the same situation as most FCS programs in terms of media availability. The schools who have moved don't have the luxury of local television coverage for all their games.

Appalachian played one game that was on television in 2012, the game at ECU which aired locally on Fox Sports because of their TV deal. The coverage that Kent State or NDSU got would be an enormous increase for us.

A fair point. The SoCon TV "deal" is different than the MVFC/CAA/Big Sky ones, which are the elite of the subdivision.

EDIT: For example, App had a game on Fox Sports Net (the ECU game), and the Montana/App game which was an ESPN PPV sort of deal. The rest were available to stream, and that's it (in fact, only two games were even available on ESPN3).

[asumike83]

A fair point. The SoCon TV "deal" is different than the MVFC/CAA/Big Sky ones, which are the elite of the subdivision.

EDIT: For example, App had a game on Fox Sports Net (the ECU game), and the Montana/App game which was an ESPN PPV sort of deal. The rest were available to stream, and that's it (in fact, only two games were even available on ESPN3).

I think that is the reason that Montana/Montana State were not interested in going FBS when they were approached a few years back and why NDSU seems to be in no rush. If App were in the same situation as them, I'm not sure I'd want to rock the boat either.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The FCS national champion who does not have an FBS school in their state is not in the same situation as most FCS programs in terms of media availability. Most FCS schools don't have the luxury of local television coverage for all their games.

Appalachian played one game that was on television in 2012, the game at ECU which aired locally on Fox Sports because of their TV deal. The coverage that Kent State or NDSU got would be an enormous increase for us.

First off not pointed at you Mike but at things I've went back and forth with some App fans over the SoCon TV deal. Hoping I can get straight answers from you on this.

The SoCon didn't get a deal with App & GSU. That alone sort of baffles me. But why didn't App with it's support go out and have a local TV provider put those games on TV for the fans. As I've said Montana stations were more than willing to do so with Montana and MT State for the last 20 yrs.? I think UM & MSU's own local TV deals probably lit the fire for most other BSC teams to start getting into the pockets of their local TV thing, the BSC then did their deals with the BigSkyTV internet streams and then a normal TV deal.

I have just never understood how App on it's own could not have capitalized on it's success to have TV that put money in the school's pocket completely outside of anything to do with the SoCon getting a deal?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think that is the reason that Montana/Montana State were not interested in going FBS when they were approached a few years back and why NDSU seems to be in no rush. If App were in the same situation as them, I'm not sure I'd want to rock the boat either.

I would have been better quoting this post cuz it's right down the line with what I'm asking.

[BisonFan02]

First off not pointed at you Mike but at things I've went back and forth with some App fans over the SoCon TV deal. Hoping I can get straight answers from you on this.

The SoCon didn't get a deal with App & GSU. That alone sort of baffles me. But why didn't App with it's support go out and have a local TV provider put those games on TV for the fans. As I've said Montana stations were more than willing to do so with Montana and MT State for the last 20 yrs.? I think UM & MSU's own local TV deals probably lit the fire for most other BSC teams to start getting into the pockets of their local TV thing, the BSC then did their deals with the BigSkyTV internet streams and then a normal TV deal.

I have just never understood how App on it's own could not have capitalized on it's success to have TV that put money in the school's pocket completely outside of anything to do with the SoCon getting a deal?

This. And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it is NDSU, not the MVFC, that puts the Bison on statewide NBC.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This. And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it is NDSU, not the MVFC, that puts the Bison on statewide NBC.

yes I think you are correct that it is an NDSU deal out of your school just because the broadcast I've watched are similar in style with all the local businesses buying up the advertising and so forth.

I'm sure the MVFC takes money out of NDSU's pocket for their own deal much like the BSC always has to Montana.

[BisonFan02]

yes I think you are correct that it is an NDSU deal out of your school just because the broadcast I've watched are similar in style with all the local businesses buying up the advertising and so forth.

I'm sure the MVFC takes money out of NDSU's pocket for their own deal much like the BSC always has to Montana.

Not sure on the payment to the MVFC. I believe NDSU actually purchases the airtime from statewide NBC and then recoups the cost via the ad money paid directly to NDSU (may even profit off of it).

[asumike83]

First off not pointed at you Mike but at things I've went back and forth with some App fans over the SoCon TV deal. Hoping I can get straight answers from you on this.

The SoCon didn't get a deal with App & GSU. That alone sort of baffles me. But why didn't App with it's support go out and have a local TV provider put those games on TV for the fans. As I've said Montana stations were more than willing to do so with Montana and MT State for the last 20 yrs.? I think UM & MSU's own local TV deals probably lit the fire for most other BSC teams to start getting into the pockets of their local TV thing, the BSC then did their deals with the BigSkyTV internet streams and then a normal TV deal.

I have just never understood how App on it's own could not have capitalized on it's success to have TV that put money in the school's pocket completely outside of anything to do with the SoCon getting a deal?

I honestly don't know all the details but my understanding is that it all boils down to competition for air time. NDSU and Montana for example would have an easier time getting local TV to air their games because there really isn't anyone else competing against them.

With UNC, NC State, ECU, Duke and Wake all wanting air time in our state's largest TV markets, it makes it difficult to sell a TV station on airing an App game when they could typically get an ACC team who can easily outbid us. If we get into a bidding war with a school with deep pockets like Duke/UNC, it would quickly become impossible for us to recoup those costs through advertisements. A program like Duke wouldn't get any more viewers than App for a football game but they have the budget to afford to take that financial hit to get on TV while we cannot.

Again, I don't know how much of an effort was made or how the conversations went but as I understand it, the abundance of local competition is what makes it tough for App to negotiate independently without the backing of a conference TV deal. Of course, I'm sure it would not be too difficult to get the games aired in Boone but when nearly the entire town population is in the stadium on game day, I don't think it would be worthwhile to pursue.

[BluBengal07]

Any way we can have a separate forum for all of this FBS talk? I know it is the off season, but this topic is past dead horse at this point. Good discussion.....but does it always have to keep flooding the FCS discussion forum?

yea, i think it's needed.
a stand along Header in General FCS should be sufficient; FBS Ambitions or Future in FBS. There currently 3 active topic running right now in FCS Discussion.
however, it's depends if the mods believes it's necessary and there is an opportunity and/or desire to do so.

[MplsBison]

I agree. For some, it's a BFD, others, not.

But for the sake of argument, let's compare Kent State (MAC runner-up)'s "exposure" on TV/internet and NDSU's in 2012 objectively.

Kent State

Towson (ESPN3/CSNet Local)
Kentucky (ESPN3/CSNet Local)
Buffalo (ESPNU Wednesday Night game)
Ball State (ESPN3/Ball State TV)
Army (CBS Sports Network)
Rutgers (SNY/ESPN3)
Akron (Local TV/ESPN3)
Miami (Local TV/ESPN3)
Bowling Green (Local TV/ESPN3)
Ohio (ESPNU, Friday Night game)
Northern Illinois (MAC Championship, ESPN2)
GoDaddy.Com bowl vs. Arkansas State, ESPN

NDSU
Robert Morris (Local TV/ESPN3)
Colorado State (Local TV/CBS Streaming)
PV A&M (Local TV/ESPN3)
Northern Iowa (Local TV/Panthers All-Access Streaming)
Youngstown (Local TV/ESPN3)
Indiana State (Local TV/ESPN3)
South Dakota (Midco/South Dakota Streaming)
Southern Illinois (Fox College Sports)
Missouri State (Mediacom/CBS Streaming)
South Dakota State (Fox College Sports)
Illinois State (Local TV/CBS Streaming)
Round of 16 South Dakota State (ESPN3)
Quarterfinals Wofford (ESPN PPV/ESPN3)
Semifinals Georgia Southern (ESPN2/ESPN3)
Finals Sam Houston (ESPN2/ESPN3)

Call the Fox College Sports vs. Comcast Sports Net appearances a wash (though Fox is a national channel)
Call the streaming advantage even, most all of both games stream on ESPN3 and the difference are still available

Kent State = 2 weekday ESPNU appearances, 1 ESPN2 appearance, 1 ESPN appearance in bowl, CBS Sports Network (thanks to Army game)
NDSU = 2 ESPN2 appearances

So what's the great "advantage"? The major ESPN appearances for both teams only happen in the postseason (FCS playoffs, MAC championship, Godaddy.com bowl). You're paying for the privilege of appearing on ESPNU two more times? And a better choice for NDSU in terms of FBS games would almost certainly have resulted in a game on the Pac 12 Network or another similar outlet.

Also worthy of mention is that Kent State didn't have 2-3 games televised at all, even locally, while NDSU's were completely televised.

The great advantage is perception.

Triple A vs. the Major Leagues.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I honestly don't know all the details but my understanding is that it all boils down to competition for air time. NDSU and Montana for example would have an easier time getting local TV to air their games because there really isn't anyone else competing against them.

With UNC, NC State, ECU, Duke and Wake all wanting air time in our state's largest TV markets, it makes it difficult to sell a TV station on airing an App game when they could typically get an ACC team who can easily outbid us. If we get into a bidding war with a school with deep pockets like Duke/UNC, it would quickly become impossible for us to recoup those costs through advertisements. A program like Duke wouldn't get any more viewers than App for a football game but they have the budget to afford to take that financial hit to get on TV while we cannot.

Again, I don't know how much of an effort was made or how the conversations went but as I understand it, the abundance of local competition is what makes it tough for App to negotiate independently without the backing of a conference TV deal. Of course, I'm sure it would not be too difficult to get the games aired in Boone but when nearly the entire town population is in the stadium on game day, I don't think it would be worthwhile to pursue.

I can see that. I can not see some of the App fans blaming TV on the SoCon and bitching when ever their own team doesn't have the swag in the state to pull it off for themselves so wanted to see what the reasoning was on this.

Did Duke, ECU, etc. have every large statewide or semi statewide outlet taken up?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The great advantage is perception.

Triple A vs. the Major Leagues.

I'll take reality over perception.

[asumike83]

I can see that. I can not see some of the App fans blaming TV on the SoCon and bitching when ever their own team doesn't have the swag in the state to pull it off for themselves so wanted to see what the reasoning was on this.

Did Duke, ECU, etc. have every large statewide or semi statewide outlet taken up?

I don't blame the SoCon but it was frustrating. Because it's not feasible financially to go out and get on TV independently and we want to have games televised, we are pretty much at the mercy of the conference to get it done. They decided against continuing to pay for the Fox Sports deal in favor of PBS because it was free. Sucks to move from Fox Sports to PBS but that was the consensus and it saved money so I could live with it. The problems after that were that not all of the schools' local markets had a PBS affiliate so the deal was axed so as not to be unfair.

I hold no ill will toward the SoCon, I just think App/GSU were looking in a different direction than the SoCon is going. Getting games on TV and looking for more ways to get exposure for the program is not all that important to a lot of schools and that's fine. It is something that is important to Appalachian and as a fan, it's important to me as well. Doesn't make our goal better or worse than everyone else in the SoCon but they are certainly different.

The four ACC schools (Duke, UNC, NCSU, Wake) along with the out of state ACC/SEC schools with large local followings (Clemson, South Carolina) pretty much carry all the weight. Without the deal through C-USA, I'm not sure ECU would be on TV much either because I don't think any of their air time is independent of the conference contract.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Boy, I have to admit, after breaking down the TV appearances, it explains a lot about realignment and why some teams go to the FBS and others don't.

[Apps03]

I can see that. I can not see some of the App fans blaming TV on the SoCon and bitching when ever their own team doesn't have the swag in the state to pull it off for themselves so wanted to see what the reasoning was on this.

Did Duke, ECU, etc. have every large statewide or semi statewide outlet taken up?

I don't know but I assume Bozeman and Missoula both have tv stations in town. Is that right? Boone doesn't have tv stations, we get tv from charlotte (2 hrs south) and Winston-Salem (2 hrs east). Both of those towns are dominated by ACC/SEC, even BIG 10 to some extent with all the migration south from Ohio/PA. I really think it all comes down to how much competition there is. Its great that NDSU and UM are the big dogs in town. App doesn't have that luxury. I really think we do a better job than most given the amount of competition. This is where, and I hate to sound like MPLS here, perception does come into play for us where it doesn't for you guys. I don't agree with it and wish it were not true, but by simply moving divisions, it really does increase the perception of App and increase those opportunities to get a tv deal in the future.

[Saint3333]

App pushed its goasutv, all home games were streamed online.

The SoCon should have never pulled its games from SportsSouth. We are talking about each schoolaying less than $50k for that deal.

[813Jag]

Southern's been lucky to get a deal with Cox Sports TV, although some of the games are tape delayed. But it's tough to get any coverage when you share a city/state with LSU. The cast a wide net over the region.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I don't know but I assume Bozeman and Missoula both have tv stations in town. Is that right? Boone doesn't have tv stations, we get tv from charlotte (2 hrs south) and Winston-Salem (2 hrs east). Both of those towns are dominated by ACC/SEC, even BIG 10 to some extent with all the migration south from Ohio/PA. I really think it all comes down to how much competition there is. Its great that NDSU and UM are the big dogs in town. App doesn't have that luxury. I really think we do a better job than most given the amount of competition. This is where, and I hate to sound like MPLS here, perception does come into play for us where it doesn't for you guys. I don't agree with it and wish it were not true, but by simply moving divisions, it really does increase the perception of App and increase those opportunities to get a tv deal in the future.

Makes sense and was really just finally looking for some insight as to why it wasn't being done. Appreciate you and Mike providing some context. I still think the App fans that lay this problem at the feet of SoCon commish are completely full of **** though considering that it is a problem that a single very strong team like App couldn't overcome itself.

[IBleedYellow]

The great advantage is perception.

Triple A vs. the Major Leagues.

17818

[cmaxwellgsu]

First off not pointed at you Mike but at things I've went back and forth with some App fans over the SoCon TV deal. Hoping I can get straight answers from you on this.

The SoCon didn't get a deal with App & GSU. That alone sort of baffles me. But why didn't App with it's support go out and have a local TV provider put those games on TV for the fans. As I've said Montana stations were more than willing to do so with Montana and MT State for the last 20 yrs.? I think UM & MSU's own local TV deals probably lit the fire for most other BSC teams to start getting into the pockets of their local TV thing, the BSC then did their deals with the BigSkyTV internet streams and then a normal TV deal.

I have just never understood how App on it's own could not have capitalized on it's success to have TV that put money in the school's pocket completely outside of anything to do with the SoCon getting a deal?


For us, it boils down to TV stations would rather air infomercials if they don't have access to an SEC game. I think App would have a better shot than us, since our 800 lb. gorilla in the room is a football school. Local TV wasn't going to drop the JP Sports SEC game of the week for an FCS local production when they could air a team "that plays the Dawgs." So for us, it was going to have to come from the conference.

[IBleedYellow]

App pushed its goasutv, all home games were streamed online.

The SoCon should have never pulled its games from SportsSouth. We are talking about each schoolaying less than $50k for that deal.

It sucks that you guys couldn't push local television stations to cover your teams. I just want to point this out: The FIRST YEAR that we had all of our games televised was LAST YEAR, after we won our first championship.

Let's put this into perspective, we fought so hard against Cableone here in town that they finally gave in and negotiated with ESPN to get us all ESPN3 here, and they wouldn't give in until after we won the second Natty.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

App pushed its goasutv, all home games were streamed online.

The SoCon should have never pulled its games from SportsSouth. We are talking about each schoolaying less than $50k for that deal.

I like the goasutv thing and think they tried a good thing as well but I do think if they had just provided that for free and went the traditional advertising route it might have been better for a lot more customers. I'm willing to pay for a game if I want to see it but a lot of people aren't willing to go a season price or even a single game at $10.

If the school pres' didn't think it was worth it then what can ya do? If you pay for the time wouldn't you think the conference would be able to sell ads to recoup costs btw? Maybe that was a problem with Sports South in that the SoCon had to buy the time and then let SS also sell the ads? I honestly don't know the particulars but trying to figure why the school presidents did as they did.

[DSUrocks07]

The great advantage is perception.

Triple A vs. the Major Leagues.

Meh...more like Double-A vs Triple-A tbh...

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Meh...more like Double-A vs Triple-A tbh...

Much more like that.

[dbackjon]

The great advantage is perception.

Triple A vs. the Major Leagues.

Except that most view the Sunbelt as AAA to begin with.

[SpiritCymbal]

I still think the App fans that lay this problem at the feet of SoCon commish are completely full of **** though considering that it is a problem that a single very strong team like App couldn't overcome itself.

Not necessarily the commish but the conference overall. The rest of the conference doesn't share the same desire/concern about the TV coverage that GSU and ASU did...hence why the TV contract was reduced each year since 2009 and finally settled on no coverage last year. "Internet streaming is the future" was just a red herring used to distract everyone from the truth. Football on TV is not important to 7 of the 9 teams in the SoCon. No one to "blame" about that...it's just a difference in opinion/philosophy. ASU and GSU decided to do something about it since we were in the minority.

Similar to ASU, going out and trying to fund TV games independently was not feasible. Smack dab in the middle of SEC and ACC country leaves very little opportunity to even have the chance to get a station willing to put a game on tv. Bidding wars over air-time was simply not doable. Like ASU as well, GSU put a lot of time and energy into putting all of our games online for free. It's quite a quality option for almost nil cost to the school.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

I can not see some of the App fans blaming TV on the SoCon and bitching when ever their own team doesn't have the swag in the state to pull it off for themselves..

Folks in Montana have a lot of nerve lecturing ASU for not having "the swag" to pull off their own TV deal. Within 200 miles of Boone ASU has Clemson, Duke, NC State, UNC, Va Tech, South Carolina, Tennessee and soon Charlotte to compete with. The closest FBS school to Montana is Wash State over 250 miles away. Everyone else is 400 + miles away. Easy to sell your games when there is no real competition.

[344Johnson]

Folks in Montana have a lot of nerve lecturing ASU for not having "the swag" to pull off their own TV deal. Within 200 miles of Boone ASU has Clemson, Duke, NC State, UNC, Va Tech, South Carolina, Tennessee and soon Charlotte to compete with. The closest FBS school to Montana is Wash State over 250 miles away. Everyone else is 400 + miles away. Easy to sell your games when there is no real competition.

The University of Montana would be the top dog in the state regardless of population and other schools in the state.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Folks in Montana have a lot of nerve lecturing ASU for not having "the swag" to pull off their own TV deal. Within 200 miles of Boone ASU has Clemson, Duke, NC State, UNC, Va Tech, South Carolina, Tennessee and soon Charlotte to compete with. The closest FBS school to Montana is Wash State over 250 miles away. Everyone else is 400 + miles away. Easy to sell your games when there is no real competition.

It would appear you are taking things in a light as if I'm cutting down App and that was not my intention so please set aside the way you took that as it was incorrectly, misunderstood, or something like that.

What I was trying to convey is that some App fans have laid the problem of not getting a TV deal at everyone else's feet while not looking at the fact that App getting something of it's own was not as easy as they've made it out to be for Big Bird...and by virtue of that the collection of presidents.

Now let's take on your reasoning and refine it a l'il bit. NC has 10 million, there are also a lot more millions fairly close by to cull fans from. You compare that to MT which only recently cracked a million with two major teams as far as our state goes. Since both games are usually overlapping as far as we go here in MT that cuts the TV viewing audience quite a bit for each team. So as much as you'd like to think it's some walk in the park our base is severy smaller to draw from. We have been able to accomplish it though and for quite a long while now in spite of that.

Since we are talking about football I can see a few of those choices certainly trumping App for TV but I find it difficult to believe that App shouldn't be on good footing with a few of them. Duke for instance has many advantages (perceived) over App and they do not draw really big crowds. It appears in fact that App is on slightly better footing than Duke as far as football crowds goes. So considering the attendance futility how can App not draw some serious attention as far as some TV outlet goes? I've gotten some stable reasons from a couple guys but still say if App can't break into that TV market then any laying of the blame on others seems pretty shameful because the conference as a whole suffers from the exact same thing.

If you were thinking this was gonna be a pissing match then I'm sorry to disappoint ya but it's not was I was looking for here.

[Saint3333]

I like the goasutv thing and think they tried a good thing as well but I do think if they had just provided that for free and went the traditional advertising route it might have been better for a lot more customers. I'm willing to pay for a game if I want to see it but a lot of people aren't willing to go a season price or even a single game at $10.

If the school pres' didn't think it was worth it then what can ya do? If you pay for the time wouldn't you think the conference would be able to sell ads to recoup costs btw? Maybe that was a problem with Sports South in that the SoCon had to buy the time and then let SS also sell the ads? I honestly don't know the particulars but trying to figure why the school presidents did as they did.

They likely bought what the commish was selling, PBS coverage would be just as good and not cost each program anything. Then he pushed Internet tv. It was a very poor and predictable decision. How did App respond, we left.

[eaglewraith]

I like the goasutv thing and think they tried a good thing as well but I do think if they had just provided that for free and went the traditional advertising route it might have been better for a lot more customers. I'm willing to pay for a game if I want to see it but a lot of people aren't willing to go a season price or even a single game at $10.


That's actually what we did. Starting this past season, we brought all home game broadcasts in house (except the Socon ESPN3 broadcasts) and offered a free stream. We ran fiber to all of our major sports venues so we can offer HD broadcasts as well. All ad sales are handled by the schools and we have no airtime costs associated with it, especially since we dropped Neulion to do this on our own. goasutv is still on JumpTV, so they're paying Jump/Neulion for their streaming services (and all the problems that come with them).

If anyone is interested, check out gseagles.com this year when we're at home. It's definitely a much better quality broadcast than any we've ever had (outside of ESPNHD). That being said, the sports world isn't quite ready to go to an internet only model, and being on TV is still a big deal to get your name out there.

[Apphole]

Except that most view the Sunbelt as AAA to begin with.

Define "most." Because the majority of savvy sports fans recognize the SBC as an FBS conference (albeit the bottom of the FBS hierarchy).

[Apps03]

It would appear you are taking things in a light as if I'm cutting down App and that was not my intention so please set aside the way you took that as it was incorrectly, misunderstood, or something like that.

What I was trying to convey is that some App fans have laid the problem of not getting a TV deal at everyone else's feet while not looking at the fact that App getting something of it's own was not as easy as they've made it out to be for Big Bird...and by virtue of that the collection of presidents.

Now let's take on your reasoning and refine it a l'il bit. NC has 10 million, there are also a lot more millions fairly close by to cull fans from. You compare that to MT which only recently cracked a million with two major teams as far as our state goes. Since both games are usually overlapping as far as we go here in MT that cuts the TV viewing audience quite a bit for each team. So as much as you'd like to think it's some walk in the park our base is severy smaller to draw from. We have been able to accomplish it though and for quite a long while now in spite of that.

Since we are talking about football I can see a few of those choices certainly trumping App for TV but I find it difficult to believe that App shouldn't be on good footing with a few of them. Duke for instance has many advantages (perceived) over App and they do not draw really big crowds. It appears in fact that App is on slightly better footing than Duke as far as football crowds goes. So considering the attendance futility how can App not draw some serious attention as far as some TV outlet goes? I've gotten some stable reasons from a couple guys but still say if App can't break into that TV market then any laying of the blame on others seems pretty shameful because the conference as a whole suffers from the exact same thing.

If you were thinking this was gonna be a pissing match then I'm sorry to disappoint ya but it's not was I was looking for here.

I think it still goes back to the competition angle. A casual fan (to me defined as someone with no connection to the school) is going to pick one of the big state schools that is successful and can be seen on tv over a school like App. As someone pointed out, there are many of those options in the area. I think its better than it once was but, App doesn't have many fans that didn't go to school there or have any other connection. I don't blame the commish for that at all. There's only so many tv stations to go around and SoCon football just can't crack the list of things to put on tv. It really is a different scenario here in the southeast than you guys are facing up there.

[MplsBison]

Except that most view the Sunbelt as AAA to begin with.

Nope. Most view them as a lower level of the top tier - which is correct.

FCS is a tier down. Out of sight, out of mind.

[CrazyCat]

Who are these "most" people ? Are they the ones that comment on ESPN ?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Nope. Most view them as a lower level of the top tier - which is correct.

FCS is a tier down. Out of sight, out of mind.

What were you talking about again, FCS, or Sun Belt football? I lost your train of thought.

The Sun Belt is a "lower level of the top tier?" So, like AAA to the majors?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That's actually what we did. Starting this past season, we brought all home game broadcasts in house (except the Socon ESPN3 broadcasts) and offered a free stream. We ran fiber to all of our major sports venues so we can offer HD broadcasts as well. All ad sales are handled by the schools and we have no airtime costs associated with it, especially since we dropped Neulion to do this on our own. goasutv is still on JumpTV, so they're paying Jump/Neulion for their streaming services (and all the problems that come with them).

If anyone is interested, check out gseagles.com this year when we're at home. It's definitely a much better quality broadcast than any we've ever had (outside of ESPNHD). That being said, the sports world isn't quite ready to go to an internet only model, and being on TV is still a big deal to get your name out there.

That is really cool. I guarantee I'll be going to watch it. I know that the world in general isn't on board with streaming but there is no doubt it's going that way and if GSU did this and had some data to show to local TV or someone that could put it on TV I'd think there would have to be someone interested if the numbers are pretty good...and I think they will be. Not that it matters now, just sayin'.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Define "most." Because the majority of savvy sports fans recognize the SBC as an FBS conference (albeit the bottom of the FBS hierarchy).

Maybe some do but I don't think most do. A friend that is more of a pro football fan (Giants, he's from NJ) called me and asked about some draft pick they got from some SB team or MAC team. I told him I had no idea and he said "What, I thought you knew about all these FCS guys?"

He goes to Griz games, knows about the top FCS somewhat and all that so he's more than just a casual fan. Even in a town like Missoula that is pretty decent on knowing the FBS vs. FCS teams on a Sunday watching a game in a bar when a player comes states his school most fans think those guys played at FCS schools.

Doesn't matter you are there, you got what you wanted, I just don't think the perception will have the impact on the normal fans outside of your team and region that you think. You beat enough of the big boys like Boise did and that will change.

[ncbears]

Maybe some do but I don't think most do. A friend that is more of a pro football fan (Giants, he's from NJ) called me and asked about some draft pick they got from some SB team or MAC team. I told him I had no idea and he said "What, I thought you knew about all these FCS guys?"

He goes to Griz games, knows about the top FCS somewhat and all that so he's more than just a casual fan. Even in a town like Missoula that is pretty decent on knowing the FBS vs. FCS teams on a Sunday watching a game in a bar when a player comes states his school most fans think those guys played at FCS schools.

Doesn't matter you are there, you got what you wanted, I just don't think the perception will have the impact on the normal fans outside of your team and region that you think. You beat enough of the big boys like Boise did and that will change.

I'll agree with that. Most fans with adequate knowledge of college football that I've come across view the Sun Belt as an FCS conference. I don't think I've ever had a conversation with a sports fan that knows the Sun Belt is FBS, come to think about it.

[dbackjon]

Nope. Most view them as a lower level of the top tier - which is correct.

FCS is a tier down. Out of sight, out of mind.

And this is where you are wildly delusional.

[dbackjon]

I'll agree with that. Most fans with adequate knowledge of college football that I've come across view the Sun Belt as an FCS conference. I don't think I've ever had a conversation with a sports fan that knows the Sun Belt is FBS, come to think about it.

Well, since 4 of the future members are still in FCS now (GSU, GaState, App State, South Alabama), one is in first year (Tx State), others (including departing members MTSU, WKU, UNT) and current members Troy and ULM are all recent FBS arrivals, as well as new member Idaho, I understand the confusion.

Only NMSU and ULL have never been FCS

[Saint3333]

Why are you guys wasting posts on something you claim no one cares about?

Strange.

[Lehigh'98]

It really is like beating a dead horse over and over and over and over and over..........People follow the teams they follow regardless if they are FBS, FCS, D2, D3....whatever. The gambling public follows mainly FBS/BCS because thats where the action is. Outside of this, the majority of Americans go on with their daily lives without worrying about conference status. Sept can't come fast enough.

[citdog]

Why are you guys wasting posts on something you claim no one cares about?

Strange.

why are you still posting here? nobody cares about exhibition games.

[MplsBison]

What were you talking about again, FCS, or Sun Belt football? I lost your train of thought.

The Sun Belt is a "lower level of the top tier?" So, like AAA to the majors?

They're the Chicago Cubs.

FCS is the Iowa Cubs.

[MplsBison]

And this is where you are wildly delusional.

No you're delusional.

(try making an argument instead of being lazy)

[Saint3333]

why are you still posting here? nobody cares about exhibition games.

Get used to it, going to be around until Dec.

Also I could only imagine these boards with every App and GSU loss this year. All of a sudden those games will matter.

[citdog]

Get used to it, going to be around until Dec.

Also I could only imagine these boards with every App and GSU loss this year. All of a sudden those games will matter.

i will only remember the LAST time we met those two institutions on the field. GLORIOUS memories!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Get used to it, going to be around until Dec.

Also I could only imagine these boards with every App and GSU loss this year. All of a sudden those games will matter.

Gotta hand it to ya on that one. He nailed ya there dog. xlolx

[citdog]

Gotta hand it to ya on that one. He nailed ya there dog. xlolx

Channakuh can't get here soon enough.

[Apphole]

why are you still posting here? nobody cares about exhibition games.

Good. You won't mind when we beat you by 40 in Johnson Haywood this fall then.

[Apphole]

And this is where you are wildly delusional.

How so? It's indisputably factual, actually. I know there's this big anti-FBS groupthing here, but to any neutral observer you would seem like the delusional one in that exchange.

To the illuminati, the FBS is a higher tier subdivision. I love AGS, but it's like a cult sometimes.

[CID1990]

Good. You won't mind when we beat you by 40 in Johnson Haywood this fall then.

Want to make an avatar bet on that spread, Chattown?


Sent from the center of the universe.

[citdog]

Good. You won't mind when we beat you by 40 in Johnson Haywood this fall then.


Touchdown The Citadel!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I know there's this big anti-FBS groupthing here...

How odd, considering this is an FCS board.

[dbackjon]

How so? It's indisputably factual, actually. I know there's this big anti-FBS groupthing here, but to any neutral observer you would seem like the delusional one in that exchange.

To the illuminati, the FBS is a higher tier subdivision. I love AGS, but it's like a cult sometimes.

To the majority of the nation, SunBelt is AAA, no different than FCS. Just a fact.

[citdog]

To the illuminati, the FBS is a higher tier subdivision. I love AGS, but it's like a cult sometimes.


who cares what the illuminati think? they're a bunch of reptiles anyway.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgy8Q5jRxDA

[ursus arctos horribilis]

who cares what the illuminati think? they're a bunch of reptiles anyway.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgy8Q5jRxDA

Dude, no one has time for 15 min. vids. Get back in posting shape and get the quick hitter thing back down or I'm gonna ask the committee to look at repealing HOF status.

[citdog]

Dude, no one has time for 15 min. vids. Get back in posting shape and get the quick hitter thing back down or I'm gonna ask the committee to look at repealing HOF status.


just trying to be a playa.....


PLAYA!

[Bisonator]

It really is like beating a dead horse over and over and over and over and over..........People follow the teams they follow regardless if they are FBS, FCS, D2, D3....whatever. The gambling public follows mainly FBS/BCS because thats where the action is. Outside of this, the majority of Americans go on with their daily lives without worrying about conference status. Sept can't come fast enough.

xnodx

If you are not in the top 50 or so of FBS, most people don't even know you exist!

[cannonballgsu]

Just going to leave this little guy here:

http://i.imgur.com/2UflS.jpg

From Here (http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34126)

Funny that the highest viewed FCS game was between two teams that are leaving...

[citdog]

cannonballgsu can't see the Forrest for the trees.

you have to GIVE A **** and TRY to be a fan at our level.

that's one of the coolest things about us.

[cannonballgsu]

cannonballgsu can't see the Forrest for the trees.

you have to GIVE A **** and TRY to be a fan at our level.

that's one of the coolest things about us.

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/michael_scott/Michael-What-the-office-10400786-400-226.gif

[citdog]

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/michael_scott/Michael-What-the-office-10400786-400-226.gif


the fact that it is necessary to explain it to you says everything.

[SpiritCymbal]

You beat enough of the big boys like Boise did and that will change.

I'll agree to that. 22 more scholarships each year increases your odds of doing that too.

[AppMan]

It would appear you are taking things in a light as if I'm cutting down App and that was not my intention so please set aside the way you took that as it was incorrectly, misunderstood, or something like that.

What I was trying to convey is that some App fans have laid the problem of not getting a TV deal at everyone else's feet while not looking at the fact that App getting something of it's own was not as easy as they've made it out to be for Big Bird...and by virtue of that the collection of presidents.

Now let's take on your reasoning and refine it a l'il bit. NC has 10 million, there are also a lot more millions fairly close by to cull fans from. You compare that to MT which only recently cracked a million with two major teams as far as our state goes. Since both games are usually overlapping as far as we go here in MT that cuts the TV viewing audience quite a bit for each team. So as much as you'd like to think it's some walk in the park our base is severy smaller to draw from. We have been able to accomplish it though and for quite a long while now in spite of that.

Since we are talking about football I can see a few of those choices certainly trumping App for TV but I find it difficult to believe that App shouldn't be on good footing with a few of them. Duke for instance has many advantages (perceived) over App and they do not draw really big crowds. It appears in fact that App is on slightly better footing than Duke as far as football crowds goes. So considering the attendance futility how can App not draw some serious attention as far as some TV outlet goes? I've gotten some stable reasons from a couple guys but still say if App can't break into that TV market then any laying of the blame on others seems pretty shameful because the conference as a whole suffers from the exact same thing.

If you were thinking this was gonna be a pissing match then I'm sorry to disappoint ya but it's not was I was looking for here.

Population doesn't figure into it. If there were 10 million people in Montana the the only competition within 250 miles of Missoula is Montana State. Western NC TV stations have a dozen FBS schools to consider before they get to ASU. While Montana enjoys the luxury of mostly being the only game in town ASU faces a multitude of big time competition for TV time. It is this perspective I think most fans in schools like Montana and North Dakota don't understand. You guys are the state's flagship universities and your alumni are the folks sitting in the state legislature and who own and run a majority of business' and industry in the state. You also get most of the TV coverage in the state. You have all the advantages and none of the obstacles of most FCS schools. If I were standing in those shoes it would be hard for me to understand why anyone would want to make the FBS move. Until you walk in ASU's or Ga Southern's shoes you can't truly appreciate where our schools are coming from.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Population doesn't figure into it. If there were 10 million people in Montana the the only competition within 250 miles of Missoula is Montana State. Western NC TV stations have a dozen FBS schools to consider before they get to ASU. While Montana enjoys the luxury of mostly being the only game in town ASU faces a multitude of big time competition for TV time. It is this perspective I think most fans in schools like Montana and North Dakota don't understand. You guys are the state's flagship universities and your alumni are the folks sitting in the state legislature and who own and run a majority of business' and industry in the state. You also get most of the TV coverage in the state. You have all the advantages and none of the obstacles of most FCS schools. If I were standing in those shoes it would be hard for me to understand why anyone would want to make the FBS move. Until you walk in ASU's or Ga Southern's shoes you can't truly appreciate where our schools are coming from.

Eh, I've never said I can't understand it. This conversation was only insignificantly tied to that anyway. The blaming of others for being in the same situation that App is as if they could do something or should do something that App couldn't themselves.

Population is a factor, not the only one for sure but a factor in the face of saying that the only thing that matters is if your school is the top dog in the state. I've conceded the reasoning on what you are saying but still wonder why with all the notoriety that something could not have come from the NC's and Michigan win to challenge a school like Duke for some airtime or even leverage some selling of ads if you are paying for airtime on something like SS. App & GSU alone should have been enough of a draw to get something better than just paying for TV time in my mind.

That may look like a backhanded compliment but it is meant as a straight compliment and something just seems off that two schools like those didn't get something out of the leverage they should have had.

Not my intention to ruffle feathers so I'll stop pondering the issue and just say thanks for the insight on the matter.xthumbsupx

[AppMan]

Eh, I've never said I can't understand it. This conversation was only insignificantly tied to that anyway. The blaming of others for being in the same situation that App is as if they could do something or should do something that App couldn't themselves.

Population is a factor, not the only one for sure but a factor in the face of saying that the only thing that matters is if your school is the top dog in the state. I've conceded the reasoning on what you are saying but still wonder why with all the notoriety that something could not have come from the NC's and Michigan win to challenge a school like Duke for some airtime or even leverage some selling of ads if you are paying for airtime on something like SS. App & GSU alone should have been enough of a draw to get something better than just paying for TV time in my mind.

That may look like a backhanded compliment but it is meant as a straight compliment and something just seems off that two schools like those didn't get something out of the leverage they should have had.

Not my intention to ruffle feathers so I'll stop pondering the issue and just say thanks for the insight on the matter.xthumbsupx

No feathers have been ruffled. It just frustrates me that some fans of schools which are the flagship institution in their state fail to realize all the great media attention and corporate support they get isn't the norm for FCS schools. When you are located in an area dominated by big time college athletics - 3 SEC and 6 ACC schools within a 3 hr drive of ASU's campus - FCS doesn't carry very much weight. It is looked at as a glorified D-II. We can get caught up in an argument whether that is right or wrong or how ignorant that is, but the fact remains that's the way it is. Many of our fans still think the National Championships should have had TV people knocking down our door. They fail to realize the Michigan win did far more to elevate the perception of ASU football. Had we followed it up with a close game at LSU and a win at ECU things would have been much different. Getting TV deals comes down to available dollars companies have to spend. They are looking for the best bang for their buck. Unfortunately for ASU the ACC and SEC dominate the attention and viewership in this area and that gobbles up those advertising dollars.

[Mntneer]

First off not pointed at you Mike but at things I've went back and forth with some App fans over the SoCon TV deal. Hoping I can get straight answers from you on this.

The SoCon didn't get a deal with App & GSU. That alone sort of baffles me. But why didn't App with it's support go out and have a local TV provider put those games on TV for the fans. As I've said Montana stations were more than willing to do so with Montana and MT State for the last 20 yrs.? I think UM & MSU's own local TV deals probably lit the fire for most other BSC teams to start getting into the pockets of their local TV thing, the BSC then did their deals with the BigSkyTV internet streams and then a normal TV deal.

I have just never understood how App on it's own could not have capitalized on it's success to have TV that put money in the school's pocket completely outside of anything to do with the SoCon getting a deal?

Haven't made it through this whole thread yet, and I'm sure you've had many replies, but I had to respond to this. The notion that App could get some of TV deal on its own is preposterous. You guys out west have no idea what it's like to be in a state with 5 FBS schools, 4 of them BCS even. I live in Raleigh, which has the second highest concentration of ASU alumni in the nation, right behind Charlotte. I cannot get RADIO coverage in the city of Raleigh for 80-90% of App games here, let alone TV. Each ASU radio affiliate within range of the Triangle carries App as their "backup" broadcast; only aired if teams like Duke, UNC etc aren't available. For the games I don't attend, I'm usually home in front of my computer since the web is the only broadcast I can get. IN RALEIGH. In the Sunday News and Observer, App is always relegated to a syndicated article on the 4th page of the sports section. App has a name in the FCS community, but relatively speaking among NC teams we are way down on the list.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Haven't made it through this whole thread yet, and I'm sure you've had many replies, but I had to respond to this. The notion that App could get some of TV deal on its own is preposterous. You guys out west have no idea what it's like to be in a state with 5 FBS schools, 4 of them BCS even. I live in Raleigh, which has the second highest concentration of ASU alumni in the nation, right behind Charlotte. I cannot get RADIO coverage in the city of Raleigh for 80-90% of App games here, let alone TV. Each ASU radio affiliate within range of the Triangle carries App as their "backup" broadcast; only aired if teams like Duke, UNC etc aren't available. For the games I don't attend, I'm usually home in front of my computer since the web is the only broadcast I can get. IN RALEIGH. In the Sunday News and Observer, App is always relegated to a syndicated article on the 4th page of the sports section. App has a name in the FCS community, but relatively speaking among NC teams we are way down on the list.

All that being true then wouldn't it be true for the SoCon as a whole when the two highest profile teams in that conference have this problem? I can not believe the sensitivity over this. It's a simple premise that I do not dispute.

Individual teams in the BSC had their own regional TV deals long before the conference did as a whole. You guys don't see that you are making the point for me but you are. You guys are not even the guys I was talking about hat have been lampooning the SoCon for not being able to do this for you.

[Mntneer]

All that being true then wouldn't it be true for the SoCon as a whole when the two highest profile teams in that conference have this problem? I can not believe the sensitivity over this. It's a simple premise that I do not dispute.

Individual teams in the BSC had their own regional TV deals long before the conference did as a whole. You guys don't see that you are making the point for me but you are. You guys are not even the guys I was talking about hat have been lampooning the SoCon for not being able to do this for you.

I don't see how we are making your point. Your point seems to be that since neither App nor GSU could secure a TV deal alone, we shouldn't complain that the SoCon, composed of BOTH of those teams plus 7 others couldn't either.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'll go on the record here and say that intrinsically there was nothing wrong with the PBS deal - which, I have to assume, got games in Raleigh. It is my impression, however, that what did in the deal was shoddy production values and apparently confusion among the affiliates about where/when to broadcast, etc.

With proper execution, IMO, PBS could have worked, similar to how PBS "works" for UConn women's basketball and sundry PBS and FCS football works local non-PBS affiliates around the country.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I don't see how we are making your point. Your point seems to be that since neither App nor GSU could secure a TV deal alone, we shouldn't complain that the SoCon, composed of BOTH of those teams plus 7 others couldn't either.

Ok man I guess the blame needs to go somewhere in spite of the circumstances you presented so eloquently so good thinking I guess.

[walliver]

I actually enjoyed the PBS deal. The games were broadcast over the air and available on cable and DirecTV. SCETV and Georgia Public TV worked well (Georgia also broadcast high school TV, and put up billboards promoting the SoCon games. I believe UNC-TV did well also. The problem was Alabama and Tennessee, where the games were not available statewide, but only on local stations.

In the past, GSU tried televising their home games on CSS (cable-only, no satellite), but it didn't last long. Furman attempted to broadcast their games on a local station, but the couldn't sell enough ads to make it feasible.

I suspect "internet TV" may be the future, but ESPN3 is not the answer. I can watch Netflix, Amazon On Demand, and Crackle on my real television in high definition, but can only watch ESPN3 on my computer. I know there are work-arounds, but until I can watch "internet TV" on my actual television, it will not be successful.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

I actually enjoyed the PBS deal. The games were broadcast over the air and available on cable and DirecTV. SCETV and Georgia Public TV worked well (Georgia also broadcast high school TV, and put up billboards promoting the SoCon games. I believe UNC-TV did well also. The problem was Alabama and Tennessee, where the games were not available statewide, but only on local stations.

In the past, GSU tried televising their home games on CSS (cable-only, no satellite), but it didn't last long. Furman attempted to broadcast their games on a local station, but the couldn't sell enough ads to make it feasible.

I suspect "internet TV" may be the future, but ESPN3 is not the answer. I can watch Netflix, Amazon On Demand, and Crackle on my real television in high definition, but can only watch ESPN3 on my computer. I know there are work-arounds, but until I can watch "internet TV" on my actual television, it will not be successful.

The problem with the PBS deal was nobody thinks of going there to watch college football so in essence there was no promotion of the conference, only a way for fans of the schools to watch games. Which most schools already provided via the internet.

You are right about the future of internet sports programming. With the explosion of smart phones and tablets research now shows people - esp young people - get a majority of their entertainment and news through those devices. Laptop sales are in a steady decline and PC's are almost an afterthought. Internet ready Smart TV's are making equally impressive gains and internet programming can be channeled through existing TV's via XBox, Playstation, ROUKU and BOXEE. For the Group of Five FBS conferences and those in FCS, internet TV is their wave of the future. There are only so many advertising dollars to go around and the big boys are going to get most of it. Schools outside the power conferences would be wise to get familiar with this form of exposure, now.

[Apphole]

Want to make an avatar bet on that spread, Chattown?


Sent from the center of the universe.

I'll make that bet with the Vegas spread all day.

[Apphole]

To the majority of the nation, SunBelt is AAA, no different than FCS. Just a fact.

Oh a fact, eh? xlolx

Here's one: The SBC is an FBS conference. That one actually is a fact.

[CID1990]

I'll make that bet with the Vegas spread all day.

Way to backpedal, son. You said ASU wins by 40 in Charleston.

Tell you what, we'll make an avatar bet. You say ASU wins by 40 in Johnson Hagood Stadium (something ASU has done only once since the series began in 1972). The same ASU that has won by 3 and 7 in their last two trips to Charleston. I'll take it.

I'll go ahead and start figuring what avatar I want you to put up.

[Apphole]

Way to backpedal, son. You said ASU wins by 40 in Charleston.

Tell you what, we'll make an avatar bet. You say ASU wins by 40 in Johnson Hagood Stadium (something ASU has done only once since the series began in 1972). The same ASU that has won by 3 and 7 in their last two trips to Charleston. I'll take it.

I'll go ahead and start figuring what avatar I want you to put up.

There's a literary tool called 'hyperbole' that you might want to wikipedia.

No one's backpedaling. A straight avatar bet with the vegas spread? Where did your confidence go?

[ASUMountaineer]

I like the goasutv thing and think they tried a good thing as well but I do think if they had just provided that for free and went the traditional advertising route it might have been better for a lot more customers. I'm willing to pay for a game if I want to see it but a lot of people aren't willing to go a season price or even a single game at $10.

If the school pres' didn't think it was worth it then what can ya do? If you pay for the time wouldn't you think the conference would be able to sell ads to recoup costs btw? Maybe that was a problem with Sports South in that the SoCon had to buy the time and then let SS also sell the ads? I honestly don't know the particulars but trying to figure why the school presidents did as they did.

My biggest complaint with goasutv is that I already pay for season tickets. I think that if you donate to the Yosef Club and purchase season tickets, then a membership to goasutv should be included. But, that's just me and not really an FCS problem, but an ASUMountaineer problem. :D

[ASUMountaineer]

why are you still posting here? nobody cares about exhibition games.

Apparently, The Sports Network cares as it named the App State/GSU game the "SoCon Game of the Year." xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

To the majority of the nation, SunBelt is AAA, no different than FCS. Just a fact.

A fact is verifiable. Could you please verify this fact with indisputable proof? K, thanks!

[CID1990]

There's a literary tool called 'hyperbole' that you might want to wikipedia.

No one's backpedaling. A straight avatar bet with the vegas spread? Where did your confidence go?

There's a difference between hyperbole and just having a big mouth.

Good to see you admit you were full of crap on the 40 point prediction, though.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

My biggest complaint with goasutv is that I already pay for season tickets. I think that if you donate to the Yosef Club and purchase season tickets, then a membership to goasutv should be included. But, that's just me and not really an FCS problem, but an ASUMountaineer problem. :D

That is another very strong reason. FWIW though I'm in a similar position and have to pay for the insider access for GoGriz.com even though it is not how you get the BSC internet games. It's just video clips and so forth that you don't get with the normal outlets so you'd pay for something anyway. No matter how much they give ya free they find something you think you need to pay for.xlolx

[Apphole]

There's a difference between hyperbole and just having a big mouth.
No, there really isn't a difference at all.

Good to see you admit you were full of crap on the 40 point prediction, though.
I am more than willing to put my money where my mouth is regarding a REAL avatar bet with the real vegas line come game day. If you're too chicken to agree to something that fair, you might want to lay off the condescension. I've asked you three times now I believe.

[CID1990]

No, there really isn't a difference at all.

I am more than willing to put my money where my mouth is regarding a REAL avatar bet with the real vegas line come game day. If you're too chicken to agree to something that fair, you might want to lay off the condescension. I've asked you three times now I believe.

YOU'RE the one who made a claim that I responded to. Are you now saying that you cannot make an avatar bet that ASU will win by 40 in Charleston?

If I wanted to make a bet on the Vegas line I would have opened MY big mouth and said that there is no way ASU will cover it.

But I didn't, did I?

[Apphole]

YOU'RE the one who made a claim that I responded to. Are you now saying that you cannot make an avatar bet that ASU will win by 40 in Charleston?

If I wanted to make a bet on the Vegas line I would have opened MY big mouth and said that there is no way ASU will cover it.

But I didn't, did I?

We talked about making a W/L bet months before I said 40 points in jest. Selective memory.

I'll just call you Nancy since you still won't accept it.

[CID1990]

We talked about making a W/L bet months before I said 40 points in jest. Selective memory.

I'll just call you Nancy since you still won't accept it.

You got called on being a loudmouth. Divert all you want to.

[Apphole]

You got called on being a loudmouth. Divert all you want to.

xlolx What ever you say, Nancy.

You got called for being a Nancy, Nancy.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

xlolx What ever you say, Nancy.

You got called for being a Nancy, Nancy.

You apparently haven't learned from past issues of this nature? Oh well.

[CID1990]

You apparently haven't learned from past issues of this nature? Oh well.

He's like Cliff Claven around these parts.

[Apphole]

You apparently haven't learned from past issues of this nature? Oh well.

PM sent.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

PM sent.

Received. Thanks.

[ASUMountaineer]

That is another very strong reason. FWIW though I'm in a similar position and have to pay for the insider access for GoGriz.com even though it is not how you get the BSC internet games. It's just video clips and so forth that you don't get with the normal outlets so you'd pay for something anyway. No matter how much they give ya free they find something you think you need to pay for.xlolx

Very true.