Straight Talk from Doug Fullerton about the "Illusion of FBS Opportunity"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2013/06/straight-talk-from-doug-fullerton-about.html

Last week, Big Sky commish Doug Fullerton had some very, very straight talk about FCS and FBS that deserved further highlighting. I did so in a blog post.

[UNDColorado]

Nice blog, easy to read and navigate!

[MplsBison]

And in case you want to go straight to the source and bypass LFN's dissertation, here you go: http://www.bigskyconf.com/news/2013/6/10/GEN_0610132516.aspx

[Apphole]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--mZvTa4f_uY/UOyhcKMWefI/AAAAAAAAFTI/SxTkl78Jdxc/s1600/tom-delonge.jpg

[MplsBison]

Here's the only "straight talk" you need to know: the Big Sky schools can't move up because they have no opportunity to move up. The only place they could move to is the MWC and that's too much of a jump up for any FCS school to make directly, save maybe Montana (and with no market, they still won't take them).

[NoDak 4 Ever]

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/what-the-****-tom-delonge-gif.gif

Smartass rule #1. Always check your image locations for filtered words.

[Apphole]

Smartass rule #1. Always check your image locations for filtered words.

I noticed and found another url for the same gif immediately after posting. (Looks like you quoted me after I fixed it, went back, and replaced a word in the url with the F word to prove a point xlolx)

Anyway, LFN is full as **** as usual.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I noticed and found another url for the same gif immediately after posting. (Looks like you quoted me after I fixed it, went back, and replaced a word in the url with the F word to prove a point xlolx)

Anyway, LFN is full as **** as usual.

Smartass rule #2. Always make sure you don't screw it up yourself.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

He's a Bobcat and I like and respect him.

That's all you really need to know about his integrity.

[bojeta]

Disclaimer: This is NOT intended to be a statement of fact!!! and..... I actually prefer they the Big Sky stay FCS...., but.......

I think there might be another option open to the Big Sky schools should they ever decided to make a jump to FBS as a whole. They could, for football only, reorganize the Big West football program. I believe it already had/has FBS status, and two members of the Big Sky, Cal Poly and UC Davis are already Big West members in most other sports.

Now ATTACK!!!

[Bisonator]

Big Sky Conference
@BigSkyConf
@eber4 We would rather not split our league. If FBS is the proper place to go, then taking all teams FBS provides more stability. #AskBigSky


This tweet makes no sense since conferences can't move up as a whole.

[MplsBison]

bojeta, I assume your proposal is an attempt to bypass the restrictions on new FBS conferences.

It won't work. Even if what you say is technically true, and I don't think it is true for defunct FBS conferences, the new TV contract has basically welded the gate shut for 12 years.

Ten conferences are splitting the money from that deal and the money is being highly chopped up for the lower five conferences. A lot of people had to shake hands and put ink on paper for this to happen. They're just not going to want to go through the hassle of trying to work in a sixth lower conference at say year four. Won't happen.

Maybe when they start hashing out the next contract after this first 12 year cycle is over, then new conferences can sign up.

[CrazyCat]

Disclaimer: This is NOT intended to be a statement of fact!!! and..... I actually prefer they the Big Sky stay FCS...., but.......

I think there might be another option open to the Big Sky schools should they ever decided to make a jump to FBS as a whole. They could, for football only, reorganize the Big West football program. I believe it already had/has FBS status, and two members of the Big Sky, Cal Poly and UC Davis are already Big West members in most other sports.

Now ATTACK!!!

I've read that the WAC could add football back, but it only has 2 years to do that ? How does the Big West still have that option ?

[MplsBison]

I've read that the WAC could add football back, but it only has 2 years to do that ? How does the Big West still have that option ?

The Big West couldn't restart and I highly doubt even if the WAC announced today that football was coming back that they could be worked into the current TV deal.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Disclaimer: This is NOT intended to be a statement of fact!!! and..... I actually prefer they the Big Sky stay FCS...., but.......

I think there might be another option open to the Big Sky schools should they ever decided to make a jump to FBS as a whole. They could, for football only, reorganize the Big West football program. I believe it already had/has FBS status, and two members of the Big Sky, Cal Poly and UC Davis are already Big West members in most other sports.

Now ATTACK!!!

I've mentioned in the past that the WAC's close relationship with the BSC right now may also be a door that is being left open for those sorts of reasons.

[MplsBison]

Now, granted -- I suppose it's possible that a new FBS conference could do this: approach the CFP organization and the NCAA and ask for permission to play football at the FBS level and simply not receive any of the money from the TV deal for this first 12 year cycle.

Something like that might be workable.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The Big West couldn't restart and I highly doubt even if the WAC announced today that football was coming back that they could be worked into the current TV deal.

The BSC has a TV deal that could be retooled based on new circumstances and I read that a former conference that once had FBS could restart it but don't have the link handy and will wait for whoever posted it last year to do so again.

If you at some point see the WAC and BSC start talking about a merge then you have a good idea why.

[Bisonator]

Now, granted -- I suppose it's possible that a new FBS conference could do this: approach the CFP organization and the NCAA and ask for permission to play football at the FBS level and simply not receive any of the money from the TV deal for this first 12 year cycle.

Something like that might be workable.

And what would be the benefits without the TV money??

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Now, granted -- I suppose it's possible that a new FBS conference could do this: approach the CFP organization and the NCAA and ask for permission to play football at the FBS level and simply not receive any of the money from the TV deal for this first 12 year cycle.

Something like that might be workable.

I thought you were referring to individua conference deals but something along those lines is also possible/probable.

[Bisonator]

The BSC has a TV deal that could be retooled based on new circumstances and I read that a former conference that once had FBS could restart it but don't have the link handy and will wait for whoever posted it last year to do so again.

If you at some point see the WAC and BSC start talking about a merge then you have a good idea why.

Interesting.

[MplsBison]

And what would be the benefits without the TV money??

Right. It'd be a tough sell I'm sure.

Basically it just would allow the Big Sky schools to do exactly what they're doing now, except with 85 scholarships and some additional coaching positions and then qualify for a Bowl game (perhaps start a new one between Big Sky and Sun Belt in Vegas?). Something about like that.

Spending more to play in the division that people care about. More or less.


But at least you could say that they're getting in line to get that TV money on the next contract. It wouldn't be that long, eight years. It'd probably take that long for all Big Sky schools to adjust budgets up to that level anyway.

[MplsBison]

I thought you were referring to individua conference deals but something along those lines is also possible/probable.

No I'm talking about the $500 million deal to televise the CFP that the ten FBS conferences are splitting.

For certain, any new FBS conference would have to sit out on that deal until the next contract.

[MplsBison]

The BSC has a TV deal that could be retooled based on new circumstances and I read that a former conference that once had FBS could restart it but don't have the link handy and will wait for whoever posted it last year to do so again.

If you at some point see the WAC and BSC start talking about a merge then you have a good idea why.

Possibly the NCAA would allow the WAC or Big West to restart FBS conferences. I can't say for sure.

And yes individual conferences have their own TV deals to televise regular season games. Certainly the Big Sky or WAC would have one, just like the Sun Belt, CUSA, etc. have something.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

20.02.6 Football Bowl subdivision Conference.

A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the conference schedule in at least six men’s and eight women’s conferencesponsored sports, including men’s basketball and football and three women’s team sports including women’s basketball. A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular-season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the applicable NCAA sport committee for automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

20.02.6.1 Exception. A Football Bowl Subdivision member institution shall be permitted to count as one of its required six men’s sports and one of its required eight women’s sports a sport in which its conference does not sponsor or conduct a championship, provided the sport is one in which it participates in another Division I multi- or single-sport conference. Different sports may be counted for men and women. (Adopted: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)

20.02.6.2 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a Football Bowl Subdivision conference for two years following the date when it fails to satisfy the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision member requirement due to one or more of its member’s failure to comply with the bowl subdivision membership requirements. (Adopted: 4/28/05 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06

The rulebook says the WAC is still considered an FBS conference for two years following "dropping out of eligibilty". Technically, they did this on July 1st, 2012, when Fresno State, Nevada, etc. left. Last year, they had seven teams, including at least two schools (Texas State, UTSA) that were transitioning to FBS. So theoretically this would go until 2014.

The Big West window is long gone.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Right. It'd be a tough sell I'm sure.

Basically it just would allow the Big Sky schools to do exactly what they're doing now, except with 63 scholarships and some additional coaching positions and then qualify for a Bowl game (perhaps start a new one between Big Sky and Sun Belt in Vegas?). Something about like that.

Spending more to play in the division that people care about. More or less.


But at least you could say that they're getting in line to get that TV money on the next contract. It wouldn't be that long, eight years. It'd probably take that long for all Big Sky schools to adjust budgets up to that level anyway.

Pretty sure that this would not happen for bowl crap. Nobody is gonna be for this type of thing unless there is a change at the FBS level that looks a whole lot more like FCS is now with a playoff that the lower level FBS would have conference access to. Nobody is gonna want this for what the FBS is now cuz there would be no point.

If things change you'll see change in the BSC as I've said for years now...being locked out and having to rush in now is just not the case and has never been the case. If things don't change then we're good where we are at.

Most of us don't give a rat's ass if "most people around the country" give a rat's ass about us. It's for us, not you.

We're just fine if a guy in Kansas doesn't see us on TV.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Pretty sure that this would not happen for bowl crap. Nobody is gonna be for this type of thing unless there is a change at the FBS level that looks a whole lot more like FCS is now with a playoff that the lower level FBS would have conference access to. Nobody is gonna want this for what the FBS is now cuz there would be no point.

If things change you'll see change in the BSC as I've said for years now...being locked out and having to rush in now is just not the case and has never been the case. If things don't change then we're good where we are at.

Most of us don't give a rat's ass if "most people around the country" give a rat's ass about us. It's for us, not you.

We're just fine if a guy in Kansas doesn't see us on TV.

Speaking as a guy who's soon to be in Kansas, I'd want to see you on TV.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Speaking as a guy who's soon to be in Kansas, I'd want to see you on TV.

Then you are one of us and we'd be happy to have you.

I'm referring to the slack jawed malcontents that buy a shirt for some team at Walmart and think they have it all under control at BWW cuz the TV's are on certain channels. If you don't specifically care or have interest in us then beat it we don't need ya and we don't want ya.

[bojeta]

Excellent discussion! I have a much better picture now of the possibilities, and thanks LFN for doing the research I was too lazy to do. As I said before, I would prefer the Big Sky stay FCS, but the WAC option Ursus mentioned is interesting. Next couple of years will require close attention.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Excellent discussion! I have a much better picture now of the possibilities, and thanks LFN for doing the research I was too lazy to do. As I said before, I would prefer the Big Sky stay FCS, but the WAC option Ursus mentioned is interesting. Next couple of years will require close attention.

No prob. Notably, though, it's the next year only, because the WAC stopped being eligible in July 1st, 2012, and then their exemption would expire on July 1st, 2014.

[MplsBison]

Excellent discussion! I have a much better picture now of the possibilities, and thanks LFN for doing the research I was too lazy to do. As I said before, I would prefer the Big Sky stay FCS, but the WAC option Ursus mentioned is interesting. Next couple of years will require close attention.

But like I said, even if the WAC announces tomorrow that eight Big Sky schools are going FBS under the WAC brand starting next season --- you're not getting in on the $500 million.

The WAC would essentially be a FBS conference that doesn't participate in the division. You might have your best team get selected by a bowl game the needs a team, depending on how many teams are eligible. And you could potentially start a new game (like a game in Vegas with the Sun Belt, for example).

But that's it. Not until the next TV contract 12 years from 2014.

[MplsBison]

Pretty sure that this would not happen for bowl crap. Nobody is gonna be for this type of thing unless there is a change at the FBS level that looks a whole lot more like FCS is now with a playoff that the lower level FBS would have conference access to. Nobody is gonna want this for what the FBS is now cuz there would be no point.

If things change you'll see change in the BSC as I've said for years now...being locked out and having to rush in now is just not the case and has never been the case. If things don't change then we're good where we are at.

Most of us don't give a rat's ass if "most people around the country" give a rat's ass about us. It's for us, not you.

We're just fine if a guy in Kansas doesn't see us on TV.

Your opinion is well and fine, but those who put ink on paper want nothing to do with that sentiment. Sorry, just the fact of the matter.

[dbackjon]

This tweet makes no sense since conferences can't move up as a whole.

Which has never been challenged in court. NCAA would have a hard time justifying it, especially since it would involve the primary schools in several states

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Your opinion is well and fine, but those who put ink on paper want nothing to do with that sentiment. Sorry, just the fact of the matter.

The fact of the matter is that is pretty much what Fullerton was saying so it from someone that puts ink to paper and I agree with him.

It has very, very small chance of ever coming to fruition because things won't change and we won't change. That's the fact of the matter. We don't covet bowl****. We don't covet the illusions of opportunity.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Which has never been challenged in court. NCAA would have a hard time justifying it, especially since it would involve the primary schools in several states

I'm going to lob a few more blog posts about this later this week. This in particular seems like a pretty good subject.

[darell1976]

The BSC has a TV deal that could be retooled based on new circumstances and I read that a former conference that once had FBS could restart it but don't have the link handy and will wait for whoever posted it last year to do so again.

If you at some point see the WAC and BSC start talking about a merge then you have a good idea why.

UND is already a member of the WAC in swimming/diving with NAU, and UNC. UND and UNC join WAC baseball next season. Right now UND cannot move up to the FBS (facility not at 15,000) so if the conference moves up due to a FBS split then UND can move up with the rest of the conference into the WAC. A lot of changes has happened recently in college football...the BSC merging with the WAC isn't so far fetched anymore.

[MplsBison]

UND is already a member of the WAC in swimming/diving with NAU, and UNC. UND and UNC join WAC baseball next season. Right now UND cannot move up to the FBS (facility not at 15,000) so if the conference moves up due to a FBS split then UND can move up with the rest of the conference into the WAC. A lot of changes has happened recently in college football...the BSC merging with the WAC isn't so far fetched anymore.

15k doesn't mean anything. Eastern Michigan gets less than 10k attending their games....they aren't getting kicked out. Never were at risk to either.

[MplsBison]

Which has never been challenged in court. NCAA would have a hard time justifying it, especially since it would involve the primary schools in several states

It'd be Montana and that's about it. Maybe UND, but they've already killed whatever political favors/capital they had when they went to Indy to get a meeting with the NCAA on the nickname. Doubt they're going to try throwing any weight around.

The rest of the Big Sky schools have two FBS programs in front of them and then a steep drop off down the Big Sky teams, for the most part. That would be the situation in the states of WA, OR, UT and AZ. Arguably similar situation in CO and ID (yeah, yeah ... save it). And in CA ... while Sac and Davis actually have fairly legit arguments for moving up, there are a plethora of FBS teams, four of which are PAC. Poly will too if/when they finish off the other side of their stadium to look like the home side.

Just can't see where the Big Sky is much of a threat to the NCAA.


But once again.....let's even say the NCAA relents and allows the Big Sky to move up to FBS: you can't get a piece of the CFP media deal for 12 years. It's done and signed, sealed and delivered. They will not renegotiate to squeeze in another lower FBS team. You'd have to convince the Sun Belt, MWC, AAU, MAC and CUSA to split the same piece of pie they're slated to receive another way.

[MplsBison]

The fact of the matter is that is pretty much what Fullerton was saying so it from someone that puts ink to paper and I agree with him.

It has very, very small chance of ever coming to fruition because things won't change and we won't change. That's the fact of the matter. We don't covet bowl****. We don't covet the illusions of opportunity.

Fullerton's job is to do what the presidents tell him. That's who I was talking about. Presidents generally like the idea of continued brand growth, increased marketing opportunity for the school's brand (enrollment growth), increased television revenue (that mythical bird...). Things like that.

I know you go out of your way to present the entire university, nay state, as subscribing to your extremist position - but it just isn't so.


You're very welcome to your opinion that FBS bowl games are stars.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Fullerton's job is to do what the presidents tell him. That's who I was talking about. Presidents generally like the idea of continued brand growth, increased marketing opportunity for the school's brand (enrollment growth), increased television revenue (that mythical bird...). Things like that.

I know you go out of your way to present the entire university, nay state, as subscribing to your extremist position - but it just isn't so.


You're very welcome to your opinion that FBS bowl games are stars.

No my opinion doesn't represent everyone in the state. My opinion lines up with the majority and the Presidents that Fullerton represents. That is the point. If Fullerton is saying it then the Presidents are on board with it as you pointed out...and Fullerton is saying what I've been saying for a long time...we don't give two ****s if you don't want it we don't care. We are not in a spot where we need to jump through hoops for some dullard to watch us on ESPN just because it happens to be playing in the backgorund.

Now IF things were to change (they won't for the forseeable future) then things will change in the BSC as I've also been saying for a very long time but what is right now is not attractive in any way.

Just bottomlining it for ya.xthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'd just like to say again how extraordinary it was that this straight talk came through a conference commissioner.

[darell1976]

15k doesn't mean anything. Eastern Michigan gets less than 10k attending their games....they aren't getting kicked out. Never were at risk to either.

NCAA won't let you move up unless you have it. I think they look the other way when MAC teams don't get to the 15k mark. If they took the rule out completely you may see an overwhelming amount of teams moving up.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Other than the loss of big game payouts more talk about the dangers of going FBS than issues facing FCS.

[GannonFan]

Which has never been challenged in court. NCAA would have a hard time justifying it, especially since it would involve the primary schools in several states

This. All the NCAA has is something written down saying whole conferences can't move up. Whether that's any more than words written on a page is unkown until someone challenges it, and I agree, the NCAA would have a tough time with that one in court.

[dbackjon]

It'd be Montana and that's about it. Maybe UND, but they've already killed whatever political favors/capital they had when they went to Indy to get a meeting with the NCAA on the nickname. Doubt they're going to try throwing any weight around.

The rest of the Big Sky schools have two FBS programs in front of them and then a steep drop off down the Big Sky teams, for the most part. That would be the situation in the states of WA, OR, UT and AZ. Arguably similar situation in CO and ID (yeah, yeah ... save it). And in CA ... while Sac and Davis actually have fairly legit arguments for moving up, there are a plethora of FBS teams, four of which are PAC. Poly will too if/when they finish off the other side of their stadium to look like the home side.

Just can't see where the Big Sky is much of a threat to the NCAA.


But once again.....let's even say the NCAA relents and allows the Big Sky to move up to FBS: you can't get a piece of the CFP media deal for 12 years. It's done and signed, sealed and delivered. They will not renegotiate to squeeze in another lower FBS team. You'd have to convince the Sun Belt, MWC, AAU, MAC and CUSA to split the same piece of pie they're slated to receive another way.

Again, it is a long stretch to think that the Big Sky desires FBS, but if they did, it would be all in, media deal included

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Again, it is a long stretch to think that the Big Sky desires FBS, but if they did, it would be all in, media deal included

Nailed it succinctly Jon.

[MplsBison]

No my opinion doesn't represent everyone in the state. My opinion lines up with the majority and the Presidents that Fullerton represents. That is the point. If Fullerton is saying it then the Presidents are on board with it as you pointed out...and Fullerton is saying what I've been saying for a long time...we don't give two ****s if you don't want it we don't care. We are not in a spot where we need to jump through hoops for some dullard to watch us on ESPN just because it happens to be playing in the backgorund.

Now IF things were to change (they won't for the forseeable future) then things will change in the BSC as I've also been saying for a very long time but what is right now is not attractive in any way.

Just bottomlining it for ya.xthumbsupx

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your's and LFN's continued, fervent evangelism of the FCS brand -- a non-existent, non-promoted brand.

It's just tough to take anything of the sort serious coming from anyone associated with the Big Sky. Because as I explained: you're all stuck where you are and you don't have any possible opportunity to move up in the first place. That's the first thing. Therefore, it seems like the sentiment is backlash to that fact - to me anyway.

[MplsBison]

I'd just like to say again how extraordinary it was that this straight talk came through a conference commissioner.

Just like it would be extraordinary for the CEO of the USPS to denounce e-mail.

[MplsBison]

NCAA won't let you move up unless you have it. I think they look the other way when MAC teams don't get to the 15k mark. If they took the rule out completely you may see an overwhelming amount of teams moving up.

The rule is that you have to have an invitation from an existing FBS conference in order to move up. THAT'S the rule.

If the MAC invited UND for full membership using the Alerus, the NCAA would not stop it. Guaranteed.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your's and LFN's continued, fervent evangelism of the FCS brand -- a non-existent, non-promoted brand.

It's just tough to take anything of the sort serious coming from anyone associated with the Big Sky. Because as I explained: you're all stuck where you are and you don't have any possible opportunity to move up in the first place. That's the first thing. Therefore, it seems like the sentiment is backlash to that fact - to me anyway.

Setting your specious reasoning aside as usually has to be done.

Montana and several others from the BSC said "no thanks" when offered a chance to move. We didn't want it, that's the fact Jack and you know that already.

[darell1976]

The rule is that you have to have an invitation from an existing FBS conference in order to move up. THAT'S the rule.

If the MAC invited UND for full membership using the Alerus, the NCAA would not stop it. Guaranteed.

Yeah they would because you need minimum of 15,000 for two years...that's the rule.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yeah they would because you need minimum of 15,000 for two years...that's the rule.

I think the point being darell is that teams get around that rule and it would be done by others including UND as I said in another thread a few posts ago advertisers can be made a deal where they buy tickets as opposed to advertising and the problem is solved so it isn't something the NCAA gives much respect to...no respect to.

[Herder]

Yeah they would because you need minimum of 15,000 for two years...that's the rule.

And if you scheduled 1 game every 2 years at TCF, you wouldn't have a problem with that rule, would you.

[MplsBison]

Setting your specious reasoning aside as usually has to be done.

Montana and several others from the BSC said "no thanks" when offered a chance to move. We didn't want it, that's the fact Jack and you know that already.

Because the WAC was dead. If it had been the old WAC with Boise, Nevada, Hawaii, etc. you'd have gone.


And of course my exactly correct point stands as ever: you have no where to go now, you're completely stuck. So Fullerton can spout off like a fool all he wants. What are you going to do about it? Leave the Big Sky? Good luck.

[MplsBison]

Yeah they would because you need minimum of 15,000 for two years...that's the rule.

Eastern Michigan.

You're incorrect, no need to irreverent about it.

[darell1976]

Eastern Michigan.

You're incorrect, no need to irreverent about it.

My point is EMU is already in the FBS and it may be harder to get rid of an FBS school than to gain one that averages around 10-12k. Even though EMU averaged around 4k last season. That's all UND needs to do is join the FBS then have the NCAA dust off that rule and kick UND out. I think they will wait for the FBS split.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Because the WAC was dead. If it had been the old WAC with Boise, Nevada, Hawaii, etc. you'd have gone.


And of course my exactly correct point stands as ever: you have no where to go now, you're completely stuck. So Fullerton can spout off like a fool all he wants. What are you going to do about it? Leave the Big Sky? Good luck.

See how dumb you act. Fullerton is saying what I've been saying and you start talking about us leaving the place we enjoy and did not want to leave in the first place? xlolx

You are simply dumb when you do this stuff man. The WAC was not dead at the time and if the BSC teams had wanted to leave at that time the WAC would have been easily as significant as the Sun Belt, MAC, etc.

None of us wanted to. That's a fact. You are building your arguments on faulty foundations man, get better at this.

[darell1976]

And if you scheduled 1 game every 2 years at TCF, you wouldn't have a problem with that rule, would you.

Maybe since UND's home is not at TCF. I don't think they count neutral games. (I may be wrong on that)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Maybe since UND's home is not at TCF. I don't think they count neutral games. (I may be wrong on that)

They do darell, or did at least unless something has changed. Hell I saw Idaho host Washington State @ Washington State so they could have the attendance number. I'm telling you there are many ways the numbers get f'd with and the NCAA doesn't care.

[clenz]

Maybe since UND's home is not at TCF. I don't think they count neutral games. (I may be wrong on that)
FAU counted a game against Michigan State at Ford Field in 2011.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

FAU counted a game against Michigan State at Ford Field in 2011.

I knew there were a couple of others but couldn't think of it off the top of my head. Thanks clenzy cuz that is more recent so shows they still don't give a rip about it.

[darell1976]

They do darell, or did at least unless something has changed. Hell I saw Idaho host Washington State @ Washington State so they could have the attendance number. I'm telling you there are many ways the numbers get f'd with and the NCAA doesn't care.

In that case there won't be a speedy time to get out of the 13,500 seat Alerus Center. Just do what Herder said and get a game in Minneapolis when the Gophers are away. Or by the time UND looks at the FBS (probably 2020) use the stadium for the CFL's Winnipeg Blue Bombers. Didn't British Columbia want to join the NCAA awhile back? Sign up the U. of Manitoba too.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

In that case there won't be a speedy time to get out of the 13,500 seat Alerus Center. Just do what Herder said and get a game in Minneapolis when the Gophers are away. Or by the time UND looks at the FBS (probably 2020) use the stadium for the CFL's Winnipeg Blue Bombers. Didn't British Columbia want to join the NCAA awhile back? Sign up the U. of Manitoba too.

We have enough of you f'n Canadians already!

[darell1976]

We have enough of you f'n Canadians already!

Oh come on UAH, we need Canadians....we have them in hockey, basketball, baseball, and now just need them into the NFL and the NCAA. UND plays the U of Manitoba in hockey (exhibition) every year. If the NCAA can guarantee it would make them (NCAA) richer they would get Canadian schools into the NCAA.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Oh come on UAH, we need Canadians....we have them in hockey, basketball, baseball, and now just need them into the NFL and the NCAA. UND plays the U of Manitoba in hockey (exhibition) every year. If the NCAA can guarantee it would make them (NCAA) richer they would get Canadian schools into the NCAA.

It was just a terribly hacky joke and as I've told you in the past darell don't ever use Hockey to justify anything with me cuz I ain't hearin' it. xlolx

Got no problem with Canadian women at all. Bring em' on.

To be clear, I have zero problem with Canadian schools coming in.

Now back to not talking about that.

[darell1976]

It was just a terribly hacky joke and as I've told you in the past darell don't ever use Hockey to justify anything with me cuz I ain't hearin' it. xlolx

Got no problem with Canadian women at all. Bring em' on.

To be clear, I have zero problem with Canadian schools coming in.

Now back to not talking about that.

Actually lets talk more about Canadian women.:D

[IBleedYellow]

Just say NO to hockey.

[Twentysix]

In that case there won't be a speedy time to get out of the 13,500 seat Alerus Center. Just do what Herder said and get a game in Minneapolis when the Gophers are away. Or by the time UND looks at the FBS (probably 2020) use the stadium for the CFL's Winnipeg Blue Bombers. Didn't British Columbia want to join the NCAA awhile back? Sign up the U. of Manitoba too.

SFU in Burnaby BC is a D2 school. They have been playing american football for a really long time they were in the NAIA since '65. Simon Fraser University.

I would like to go to Winnipeg for summit games tbh. Idk if they could ever get up to MVFC level football, but for basketball and other stuff they should be just fine.. Winnipeg (population 730,000) is larger than the state of North Dakota.

[UNDColorado]

Just say NO to hockey.

Wow, very insightful xrotatehx

[CrazyCat]

Actually lets talk more about Canadian women.:D

I had some very memorable times in Vancouver. I would give it two thumbs way up.xnodx

[Eagle22]

Straight talk, for sure.

Fullerton has pretty much always been a straight shooter, just as he was back in 1999 when he, Greg Sankey and Alfred White tried to bolster I-AA. This really isn't news, and was the same sentiment expressed when teams like Troy, UAB, North Texas and Marshall left the division.

What has really changed in the last 15 years though ?

Sankey is the COO of the SEC, while White is an associate commissioner at CUSA. Both realized that they couldn't sway either the NCAA or their league membership to find some of this common sense middle ground.

Patty Viverito may be the only I-AA/FCS commissioner with more tenure, but realistically what impact has this 'real talk' accomplished ? The NCAA knows how to throw a bone here and there to get FCS to pipe down when necessary.

I've said it a million times, but I-AA/FCS suffers greatly because of the wide diversity in scholarship support. If they implemented a floor at 63, the product could be better marketed and a true ROI could be obtained. Until that day comes, good luck.

[bojeta]

SFU in Burnaby BC is a D2 school. They have been playing american football for a really long time they were in the NAIA since '65. Simon Fraser University.

I would like to go to Winnipeg for summit games tbh. Idk if they could ever get up to MVFC level football, but for basketball and other stuff they should be just fine.. Winnipeg (population 730,000) is larger than the state of North Dakota.


And incredibly, Simon Frazier plays in the GNAC along with Humboldt State, and Azusa Pacific from California. Amazing geography for a DII program!!! And.... they apparently just added South Dakota School of Mines.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Straight talk, for sure.

Fullerton has pretty much always been a straight shooter, just as he was back in 1999 when he, Greg Sankey and Alfred White tried to bolster I-AA. This really isn't news, and was the same sentiment expressed when teams like Troy, UAB, North Texas and Marshall left the division.

What has really changed in the last 15 years though ?

Sankey is the COO of the SEC, while White is an associate commissioner at CUSA. Both realized that they couldn't sway either the NCAA or their league membership to find some of this common sense middle ground.

Patty Viverito may be the only I-AA/FCS commissioner with more tenure, but realistically what impact has this 'real talk' accomplished ? The NCAA knows how to throw a bone here and there to get FCS to pipe down when necessary.

I've said it a million times, but I-AA/FCS suffers greatly because of the wide diversity in scholarship support. If they implemented a floor at 63, the product could be better marketed and a true ROI could be obtained. Until that day comes, good luck.

I agree with all that and think a standard scholly would be beneficial but as you pointed out it is this way and changing isn't gonna happen so we got what we got. I don't think in anything Fullerton said he was intimating changes but that FCS is the better choice at this point in time all things considered. If any bones are thrown then great.

[Bisonator]

Fullerton's biggest problem was not convincing the presidents to invite NDSU and SDSU for membership 5 years ago. Then adding UND without getting USD as a travel partner. Still can't figure that one out. Worked out OK for us anyway!

[darell1976]

Fullerton's biggest problem was not convincing the presidents to invite NDSU and SDSU for membership 5 years ago. Then adding UND without getting USD as a travel partner. Still can't figure that one out. Worked out OK for us anyway!

USD was set to join but some backroom deal was made at the final hour got them into the MVFC. If UND would've gotten the same deal as USD who knows if UND would be in the BSC...but it worked out OK for us!!:D

[NoDak 4 Ever]

USD was set to join but some backroom deal was made at the final hour got them into the MVFC. If UND would've gotten the same deal as USD who knows if UND would be in the BSC...but it worked out OK for us!!:D

Did it?

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/266224/group/homepage/


After one trip through the Big Sky Conference, the UND athletic department was handed its first report card.

Let’s just say mom and dad wouldn’t be very happy.

The Big Sky Conference recently released its 2012-13 all-sports standings, a summarization of a school’s performance based on each team’s league finish.

UND finished 11th of 11 teams in the all-sports standings. The men were ninth and the women 11th. And in the combined all-sports standings, UND was last by a long shot — more than 31 points behind 10th place Eastern Washington.

[darell1976]

Did it?

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/266224/group/homepage/

Bad after one year so UND should drop football, and move the rest of their sports into the Summit to save on travel. Um I don't think so. UND did make the playoffs in men's basketball, and volleyball. Football would have been better with a defense therefore got new coaches, women's basketball is under now 2nd year head coach Travis Brewster who brought in new coaches. It will take time, but you think UND is thinking of leaving the BSC?? NO WAY!! The SL is close to losing their AQ status in baseball and basketball, so UND is staying away from that revolving door of a conference plus Tom Douple is the WORST commissioner there is by saving baseball by signing up UNC and UND but nope, at the same time waved bye bye to Oakland. UND will improve its in our history.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Bad after one year so UND should drop football, and move the rest of their sports into the Summit to save on travel. Um I don't think so. UND did make the playoffs in men's basketball, and volleyball. Football would have been better with a defense therefore got new coaches, women's basketball is under now 2nd year head coach Travis Brewster who brought in new coaches. It will take time, but you think UND is thinking of leaving the BSC?? NO WAY!! The SL is close to losing their AQ status in baseball and basketball, so UND is staying away from that revolving door of a conference plus Tom Douple is the WORST commissioner there is by saving baseball by signing up UNC and UND but nope, at the same time waved bye bye to Oakland. UND will improve its in our history.

Pent up aggression, eh? You made a comment about going to the MVFC, I made a comment about UND in the BSC. I'm not sure the Summit had anything to do with this. Isn't this a football board?

[NDSUstudent]

Did it?

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/266224/group/homepage/

Ouch....

[darell1976]

Pent up aggression, eh? You made a comment about going to the MVFC, I made a comment about UND in the BSC. I'm not sure the Summit had anything to do with this. Isn't this a football board?

My comment was why USD didn't join the BSC, then you came back with how bad UND did its first year in the BSC. So I gave you a reason why UND doesn't dump the BSC for the SL. Sorry if it sounded like I was a prick, but because you join a new conference and not live up to expectations you just have to try harder and improve your weaknesses. IMO it's not because of travel but personnel.

[gotts]

My comment was why USD didn't join the BSC, then you came back with how bad UND did its first year in the BSC. So I gave you a reason why UND doesn't dump the BSC for the SL.

No, you commented about how well the BSC was working out for you and he responded.

/logic

[darell1976]

No, you commented about how well the BSC was working out for you and he responded.

/logic

Actually it is working UND has an AQ conference for all of its sports teams (between the BSC and WAC). Without the BSC there would be no UND football.

[gotts]

Actually it is working UND has an AQ conference for all of its sports teams (between the BSC and WAC). Without the BSC there would be no UND football.

What good is an AQ if you don't even sniff NCAA tournament play?

[darell1976]

What good is an AQ if you don't even sniff NCAA tournament play?

What good is the playoffs if you aren't in an AQ conference.

[UNDColorado]

What good is an AQ if you don't even sniff NCAA tournament play?

That's your logic? In our first year Mens Basketball took 3rd and went down to the wire against Weber in the semi finals. Once again this was our first year; nobody was expecting anything special.

Sports like track and field, softball and tennis were terrible and that is what really brought us down. I don't think tennis even has scholarships at this point. They have some work to do for sure.

Some of you trolls are painting with a broad brush and we get it, you don't like UND. Move on.

The thread is about Fullerton's thought on FBS move ups and if you don't look at this through a partisan view he is spot on.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

What good is the playoffs if you aren't in an AQ conference.

This is getting to be a pretty stupid slap fight. Nobody cares that UND is in the BSC. Your program is a perfect example of why this thread exists. The BSC is a few elite programs and a whole lot of ballast. You, ISU, UNC, Portland State, and the Utahs are balast for the Washington and Montana Schools. That is why you could never move up as a conference. Not a lot of wheat and a whole lot of chaff.

Stay in the BSC, we don't really care.

/done

[darell1976]

This is getting to be a pretty stupid slap fight. Nobody cares that UND is in the BSC. Your program is a perfect example of why this thread exists. The BSC is a few elite programs and a whole lot of ballast. You, ISU, UNC, Portland State, and the Utahs are balast for the Washington and Montana Schools. That is why you could never move up as a conference. Not a lot of wheat and a whole lot of chaff.

Stay in the BSC, we don't really care.

/done

UND also matches Montana in academics...oh my God what would education have to with college??

[NoDak 4 Ever]

UND also matches Montana in academics...oh my God what would education have to with college??

****, I'm sorry. I forgot we were in AnyGivenTuesdayinWorldHistoryClass.com

[Bisonator]

Geeze guys way to thread drift. I was simply stumped by Fullerton's failure to get NDSU and SDSU on board and then stumbled with the UND/USD situation. Wasn't so much with how UND is doing rather the conference move's as a whole.

IMO the BSC kind of blew it with those moves but that's neither here nor there anymore. Just shows a "chink" if you will in the job Fullerton has done, not that the rest of his resume isn't stellar.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Geeze guys way to thread drift. I was simply stumped by Fullerton's failure to get NDSU and SDSU on board and then stumbled with the UND/USD situation. Wasn't so much with how UND is doing rather the conference move's as a whole.

IMO the BSC kind of blew it with those moves but that's neither here nor there anymore. Just shows a "chink" if you will in the job Fullerton has done, not that the rest of his resume isn't stellar.

I complete agree on both the FBS move up (fourth quadrant, indeed) and how the BSC screwed the pooch by stretching west instead of east.

[darell1976]

****, I'm sorry. I forgot we were in AnyGivenTuesdayinWorldHistoryClass.com

Fullerton admitted UND not only on the field but in the classroom, he is quoted on that. UND is a big part of the future of the Big Sky, if they weren't they would have considered that site visit from the Summit League.

[parr90]

The part he talks about how teams like GSU and App are moving up and will lose more and pay more to do so. What he doesnt talk about is that even though this is true, this isnt the reason GSU and App are doing this. I cant really speak for App but GSU is doing this because we want to win at the highest level and this is the only way to do so. Yes we may lose more and have some bumps along the way but the idea to GSU is to get in, continue to grow, continue to win games at the level they are and continue to move up. Its all about getting there. When Erk Russell started football at GSC back in 1981 his idea of playing football was against Georgia and Notre Dame. GSU has done alot over the last 25 years or so to get there. This is just another stepping stone for GSU and I think App as well. These two schools arent making this move to stay in the Sunbelt forever. I know GSU wants to continue to grow and build a program that is in the same league with the BCS teams. It may take some time but at least thats what we want and are trying to get to.

[Bisonator]

The part he talks about how teams like GSU and App are moving up and will lose more and pay more to do so. What he doesnt talk about is that even though this is true, this isnt the reason GSU and App are doing this. I cant really speak for App but GSU is doing this because we want to win at the highest level and this is the only way to do so. Yes we may lose more and have some bumps along the way but the idea to GSU is to get in, continue to grow, continue to win games at the level they are and continue to move up. Its all about getting there. When Erk Russell started football at GSC back in 1981 his idea of playing football was against Georgia and Notre Dame. GSU has done alot over the last 25 years or so to get there. This is just another stepping stone for GSU and I think App as well. These two schools arent making this move to stay in the Sunbelt forever. I know GSU wants to continue to grow and build a program that is in the same league with the BCS teams. It may take some time but at least thats what we want and are trying to get to.

Good luck with that!

[darell1976]

I complete agree on both the FBS move up (fourth quadrant, indeed) and how the BSC screwed the pooch by stretching west instead of east.

Maybe Fullerton wasn't worried about teams moving up when he denied the SU's but all of a sudden the WAC is interested in the Montana's, teams like UTSA, and Texas State move up, Fullerton needed teams to keep his conference as big as the Sky so he perged the Great West, except for USD.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

These two schools arent making this move to stay in the Sunbelt forever.

And that's what's wrong with this decision. Sure, a big part of the problem is that there's no way to go to FBS football without conference jumping. But if you do conference jump, you need to assume that it's going to be your home for a generation, or probably more, and you also have to assume that you'll always be in that 4th quadrant - 3rd if everything falls perfectly into place.

[Green26]

Fullerton's biggest problem was not convincing the presidents to invite NDSU and SDSU for membership 5 years ago. Then adding UND without getting USD as a travel partner. Still can't figure that one out. Worked out OK for us anyway!

The thinking on not admitting NDSU and SDSU was based, in part, on the travel difficulties and cost of traveling to those schools, especially for sports other than football. Expansion in the west and in CA was more of a goal of the BSC, and it's been a good goal. Also, the massive national football landscape changes were not occurring at that time. In retrospect, I assume the conference would probably admit that that decision was a mistake.

Part of the problem in the USD offer was that USD's laws/rules required the approval of the trustees/regents, and that required some notice and making the proposal public. When the offer from the BSC was made public, then the MVFC reconsidered and made it's offer. Given the laws/rules, I'm not sure this result could have been avoided. Also note that by this time, UM's new president was Engstrom, who had been the provost at USD. He wanted to add USD. He actually made the call to invite USD.

After the turn down of NDSU and SDSU, the football landscape started changing significantly. The BSC, including Fullerton, the AD's and the presidents, took prompt offensive and defensive action to add the new schools, which included Cal Poly and UC-Davis, which were candidates for the WAC as it looked for ways to expand and survive. These were good moves, which has been the BSC fairly strong and, so far, stable. It's unfortunate that USD didn't work out.

The BSC thought that Idaho might eventually come back to the BSC, and it is coming back for sports other than football. Idaho managed to hang on in FBS and now has landed in the Sun Belt. We'll see if the Sun Belt, with its huge and eclectic football footprint and mixed bag of schools, can survive long term in its current make up and as the landscape continues to change.

The BSC continues to keep its eyes open. One of things it has its eyes on is the WAC charter, which could be used and revived even after 2 (I think) dormant years. This is one of multiple alternatives in the back of the minds of the BSC. I doubt that there will be desire for the stronger schools and perhaps some of the Dakota schools to move up as a conference, and there are many hurdles to that, but, if for some reason FCS really was unraveling or the BCS schools broke off and a new middle division was being formed, maybe something like this would be a possible alternative.

I did this post from memory. If I goofed up something, my apologies. It is largely accurate, though.

[darell1976]

The thinking on not admitting NDSU and SDSU was based, in part, on the travel difficulties and cost of traveling to those schools, especially for sports other than football. Expansion in the west and in CA was more of a goal of the BSC, and it's been a good goal. Also, the massive national football landscape changes were not occurring at that time. In retrospect, I assume the conference would probably admit that that decision was a mistake.

Part of the problem in the USD offer was that USD's laws/rules required the approval of the trustees/regents, and that required some notice and making the proposal public. When the offer from the BSC was made public, then the MVFC reconsidered and made it's offer. Given the laws/rules, I'm not sure this result could have been avoided. Also note that by this time, UM's new president was Engstrom, who had been the provost at USD. He wanted to add USD. He actually made the call to invite USD.

After the turn down of NDSU and SDSU, the football landscape started changing significantly. The BSC, including Fullerton, the AD's and the presidents, took prompt offensive and defensive action to add the new schools, which included Cal Poly and UC-Davis, which were candidates for the WAC as it looked for ways to expand and survive. These were good moves, which has been the BSC fairly strong and, so far, stable. It's unfortunate that USD didn't work out.

The BSC thought that Idaho might eventually come back to the BSC, and it is coming back for sports other than football. Idaho managed to hang on in FBS and now has landed in the Sun Belt. We'll see if the Sun Belt, with its huge and eclectic football footprint and mixed bag of schools, can survive long term in its current make up and as the landscape continues to change.

The BSC continues to keep its eyes open. One of things it has its eyes on is the WAC charter, which could be used and revived even after 2 (I think) dormant years. This is one of multiple alternatives in the back of the minds of the BSC. I doubt that there will be desire for the stronger schools and perhaps some of the Dakota schools to move up as a conference, and there are many hurdles to that, but, if for some reason FCS really was unraveling or the BCS schools broke off and a new middle division was being formed, maybe something like this would be a possible alternative.

I did this post from memory. If I goofed up something, my apologies. It is largely accurate, though.

Good post.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Geeze guys way to thread drift. I was simply stumped by Fullerton's failure to get NDSU and SDSU on board and then stumbled with the UND/USD situation. Wasn't so much with how UND is doing rather the conference move's as a whole.

IMO the BSC kind of blew it with those moves but that's neither here nor there anymore. Just shows a "chink" if you will in the job Fullerton has done, not that the rest of his resume isn't stellar.

This has all been said before but I really wanted the SU's in the conference but man if you look at the rest of the voting membership and the travel it would have entailed it just didn't seem like a good move at the time. You know it would have changed if the conference realignment stuff had veen happening back then. It would not have been good for you guys and SDSU either even though at the time it would have. Now though, all things considered you are better off and the BSC with UND would be better off with NDSU as far as a really solid conference. The BSC is still in a little better position now that it was then even without a great program like NDSU.

At the time I really don't know how Fullerton could have made this case unless he had access to a very specific crystal ball. I really don't see that a big blunder.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Guess I should have read the last page before posting again.

[MplsBison]

Good post.

I agree.

[MplsBison]

This has all been said before but I really wanted the SU's in the conference but man if you look at the rest of the voting membership and the travel it would have entailed it just didn't seem like a good move at the time. You know it would have changed if the conference realignment stuff had veen happening back then. It would not have been good for you guys and SDSU either even though at the time it would have. Now though, all things considered you are better off and the BSC with UND would be better off with NDSU as far as a really solid conference. The BSC is still in a little better position now that it was then even without a great program like NDSU.

At the time I really don't know how Fullerton could have made this case unless he had access to a very specific crystal ball. I really don't see that a big blunder.

Yep.

I was one of many NDSU fans who, stupidly, just assumed we'd be headed to the Big Sky to join the Montana's once the move up was announced. It didn't work because of travel concerns and frankly, I just think the Big Sky probably underestimated what they had on their hands. Travel probably wouldn't have been as big of a concern if you'd have told them NDSU would win back to back titles and looking good for a third.

[MplsBison]

My point is EMU is already in the FBS and it may be harder to get rid of an FBS school than to gain one that averages around 10-12k. Even though EMU averaged around 4k last season. That's all UND needs to do is join the FBS then have the NCAA dust off that rule and kick UND out. I think they will wait for the FBS split.

Yes they will let you move up without it. The NCAA has to approve any potential move up *first*. There is no such thing as moving up and then having the NCAA cancel the move at a later time.

If the MAC invited UND to be an all-sports member, the NCAA would not stop it just because the Alerus only seats 13.5 max. If UND averaged 11k, they'd be beating E. Mich and possibly some other MAC teams that are already in.

Once more for posterity: 15k doesn't mean anything.


Please don't post again just to say the same thing. Come with a new argument or something different.

[MplsBison]

See how dumb you act. Fullerton is saying what I've been saying and you start talking about us leaving the place we enjoy and did not want to leave in the first place? xlolx

You are simply dumb when you do this stuff man. The WAC was not dead at the time and if the BSC teams had wanted to leave at that time the WAC would have been easily as significant as the Sun Belt, MAC, etc.

None of us wanted to. That's a fact. You are building your arguments on faulty foundations man, get better at this.

The WAC would be dead last ranked if its football conference consisted of the six biggest Big Sky football programs (probably: Montana, MSU, Weber, NAU, Portland St, Sac St) plus Idaho and New Mexico St. Not dead, but dead last.

Would you have gotten an equal share of the group of five slice? Probably not. Or possibly even left out. Why would they respect a conference of all move-ups and two of the lowest FBS programs?


That's why they didn't go. Not because of some made up "loyalty to the Big Sky" sentiment that you propagate. The only thing anyone is loyal to these days is money.

[henfan]

Fullerton was the AD who was discussing potential FBS reclassification for the entire Big Sky not too many years ago.


“If the standards are indeed not going to stay in place,” said Fullerton, “And there is a guarantee that there is greater access to Bowl games for non-BCS schools, and there would be greater access to scheduling then why wouldn't I advise our schools to go to I-A as a league?

So much for "straight talk".

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The WAC would be dead last ranked if its football conference consisted of the six biggest Big Sky football programs (probably: Montana, MSU, Weber, NAU, Portland St, Sac St) plus Idaho and New Mexico St. Not dead, but dead last.

Would you have gotten an equal share of the group of five slice? Probably not. Or possibly even left out. Why would they respect a conference of all move-ups and two of the lowest FBS programs?


That's why they didn't go. Not because of some made up "loyalty to the Big Sky" sentiment that you propagate. The only thing anyone is loyal to these days is money.

It would have happened several years ago on the part of the tana's and over the past couple so I'm not assuming it as of this point right now and you should not be either. It would be easily as strong at this point as the SBC and have several advantages over it. The WAC was contacting Montana before they were talking to TX State etc. so move your timeline back a little bit.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Fullerton was the AD who was discussing potential FBS reclassification for the entire Big Sky not too many years ago.

So much for "straight talk".

Let's say the prez's decided it wanted that. If this were the case you'd quickly see the WAC and BSC merge and take that reclassification. So how is that not something that he talks about as a possibility and how is it not being straight as far as an option goes?

[darell1976]

Yes they will let you move up without it. The NCAA has to approve any potential move up *first*. There is no such thing as moving up and then having the NCAA cancel the move at a later time.

If the MAC invited UND to be an all-sports member, the NCAA would not stop it just because the Alerus only seats 13.5 max. If UND averaged 11k, they'd be beating E. Mich and possibly some other MAC teams that are already in.

Once more for posterity: 15k doesn't mean anything.


Please don't post again just to say the same thing. Come with a new argument or something different.

Oh really?? Doesn't work that way in DII. You do a study, then move after a conference invite, then after your last sport in transition is complete the NCAA looks to see if you passed and become DI. I would think it would be the same as FCS to FBS. I know the first 2 is done, the third may or may not happen.

[MplsBison]

It would have happened several years ago on the part of the tana's and over the past couple so I'm not assuming it as of this point right now and you should not be either. It would be easily as strong at this point as the SBC and have several advantages over it. The WAC was contacting Montana before they were talking to TX State etc. so move your timeline back a little bit.

My point is still correct. Any decision Montana has made has absolutely nothing to do with loyalty to the Big Sky or I-AA/FCS. Nothing. Zip. You can't prove otherwise.

It was/is entirely to do with not having access to the opportunity that they would accept (MWC at this point). You're stuck.


So once again, this faux sentiment of loyalty to the conference and sub-division is borne out of frustration.

[MplsBison]

Oh really?? Doesn't work that way in DII. You do a study, then move after a conference invite, then after your last sport in transition is complete the NCAA looks to see if you passed and become DI. I would think it would be the same as FCS to FBS. I know the first 2 is done, the third may or may not happen.

It works that way in every division. The NCAA has to approve all potential moves. There is no such thing as moving to a new division without the NCAA knowing about it, then the NCAA audits the move and says "oh whoopsies! we didn't notice that your stadium wasn't big enough before!".

[ursus arctos horribilis]

My point is still correct. Any decision Montana has made has absolutely nothing to do with loyalty to the Big Sky or I-AA/FCS. Nothing. Zip. You can't prove otherwise.

It was/is entirely to do with not having access to the opportunity that they would accept (MWC at this point). You're stuck.


So once again, this faux sentiment of loyalty to the conference and sub-division is borne out of frustration.

No it isn't. I never said they wouldn't have taken an invitation from the MWC. I said that not all FBS invitations like the lower level ones that some teams have taken are equal which is exactly what Fullerton said.

Stop trying to do your silly little spin and turn to get out of an argument you were ill prepared to engage in in the first place.

We have loyalty to the conference and FCS to a certain point but if the payoff were going to a MWC then it's likely that this move would be not only considered but probably taken.

I however would still not be thrilled about not having a shot at a playoff to settle things on the field. Those two things are indisputable facts so shut your mouth.

[MplsBison]

Thank you for confirming that I was correct all along and that this entire thread is a scam.


Of course, every major FCS program has at least *some* loyalty to their current conference and the sub-division. I never said otherwise. On the contrary, this thread was trying to present Fullerton as confirming a preposterous sentiment that Big Sky teams have ultimate, unwavering loyalty to the conference and the sub-division.

As you confirmed, Montana would move FBS under the right circumstance and leave the Big Sky. That's all that needs to be said here.

Thread intent discredited. Move on.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Thank you for confirming that I was correct all along and that this entire thread is a scam.


Of course, every major FCS program has at least *some* loyalty to their current conference and the sub-division. I never said otherwise. On the contrary, this thread was trying to present Fullerton as confirming a preposterous sentiment that Big Sky teams have ultimate, unwavering loyalty to the conference and the sub-division.

As you confirmed, Montana would move FBS under the right circumstance and leave the Big Sky. That's all that needs to be said here.

Thread intent discredited. Move on.

http://0.tqn.com/d/animatedtv/1/0/M/H/1/annoying_orange.jpg.jpg

As usual you are apparently arguing something that no one else was arguing. Typical MPLS dance out of a bad beating. You're terrible at this so I will now go back to not trying to have a conversation with you.

[dbackjon]

Thank you for confirming that I was correct all along and that this entire thread is a scam.


Of course, every major FCS program has at least *some* loyalty to their current conference and the sub-division. I never said otherwise. On the contrary, this thread was trying to present Fullerton as confirming a preposterous sentiment that Big Sky teams have ultimate, unwavering loyalty to the conference and the sub-division.

As you confirmed, Montana would move FBS under the right circumstance and leave the Big Sky. That's all that needs to be said here.

Thread intent discredited. Move on.

If any FCS school (other than Villanova) got a P5 invite, sure, they'd move. But that is not what Fullerton, or the article is saying.
And the MWC is far closer to the P5 than it is to the old WAC, Sunbelt, or C-USA.

[MplsBison]

If any FCS school (other than Villanova) got a P5 invite, sure, they'd move. But that is not what Fullerton, or the article is saying.
And the MWC is far closer to the P5 than it is to the old WAC, Sunbelt, or C-USA.

I correctly discredited this thread and the article by noting that Big Sky teams have no where to go upwards, hence why Fullerton making such proclamations is nothing more than convenient.


ursus tried to say that BS teams could move to the WAC, I then correctly countered that by saying a WAC with six BS move ups plus Idaho and NMSU would be nothing in FBS, hence why that option was turned down. He then tried to say that specifically Montana was approached to join the same WAC that contained Boise, Nevada, Fresno, etc. Again, I correctly countered that by noting the ultimate truth: the reason Montana turned that down had nothing to do with loyalty to the Big Sky or FCS. It had only to do with the perception at the time of Montana's leadership that such a move wouldn't be a good enough deal for the university. In other words, if it had been a good enough deal, they would've left - Big Sky and FCS be damned.

Such a logic chain completely ruins the entire intent of the thread and proves it to be fraudulently concocted in the first place. "Straight talk" indeed...

[CrazyCat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04

[NoDak 4 Ever]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04

Even when he has a point, he's such an asshole about it nobody cares.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Even when he has a point, he's such an asshole about it nobody cares.

It would be nice if he had one here though. Teams further west and with less to offer have been given SBC invites so even his point of "no opportunity" is moot.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

It would be nice if he had one here though. Teams further west and with less to offer have been given SBC invites so even his point of "no opportunity" is moot.

Well unfortunately when I come upon the "**** creek" stage of a thread, I rarely try to wade back in.


Naturally dumbass will just respond with a "you have nothing to contribute" crack but when I refuse to read half the thread because it's covered in crap, I can hardly respond well.

[MplsBison]

It would be nice if he had one here though. Teams further west and with less to offer have been given SBC invites so even his point of "no opportunity" is moot.

Idaho was already FBS. Thus they had something to offer the Sun Belt immediately, versus Montana which had a null offer by being in FCS.

Therefore, once again - I've shown that while your argument appears to be meaningful, it is in fact invalid.

[dgtw]

What exactly does Idaho offer the Sun Belt other than a warm body? They are a very long way from anyone else in the league and would bring zero fans when they go on the road. There are at least a dozen FCS teams that would have been a better fit than Idaho or New Mexico State.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What exactly does Idaho offer the Sun Belt other than a warm body? They are a very long way from anyone else in the league and would bring zero fans when they go on the road. There are at least a dozen FCS teams that would have been a better fit than Idaho or New Mexico State.

Though apparently one of those schools wasn't Liberty.

[Bisonoline]

Looks like mpls is going through another one of his---"I am correct and youre not" phases. Was wondering how long the good boy act was going to last.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Looks like mpls is going through another one of his---"I am correct and youre not" phases. Was wondering how long the good boy act was going to last.

Either way it's gonna be a win win for the rest of us.:D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Idaho was already FBS. Thus they had something to offer the Sun Belt immediately, versus Montana which had a null offer by being in FCS.

Therefore, once again - I've shown that while your argument appears to be meaningful, it is in fact invalid.

http://compsci6asbs.wikispaces.com/file/view/annoying-orange.jpg/173968453/annoying-orange.jpg

[MplsBison]

What exactly does Idaho offer the Sun Belt other than a warm body? They are a very long way from anyone else in the league and would bring zero fans when they go on the road. There are at least a dozen FCS teams that would have been a better fit than Idaho or New Mexico State.

Good point. That must be why Idaho and NMSU got the invites instead of the dozen+ FCS schools.

Note: Georgia Southern and App St were invited to the Sun Belt.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Idaho and NMSU got the invites because they provided a very useful hedge to allow the Sun Belt to stay in existence as a conference. They need 8 full members, and they would have had 9 by 2015. If Troy went to C-USA and ULM dropped football, they'd be in the same situation as the WAC without NMSU and Idaho as insurance.

[ASUMountaineer]

Though apparently one of those schools wasn't Liberty.

xlolx very true.

[ASUMountaineer]

Idaho and NMSU got the invites because they provided a very useful hedge to allow the Sun Belt to stay in existence as a conference. They need 8 full members, and they would have had 9 by 2015. If Troy went to C-USA and ULM dropped football, they'd be in the same situation as the WAC without NMSU and Idaho as insurance.

When have either of those been actual possibilities? With that said, of course Idaho and NMSU were brought in as warm bodies. If the Sun Belt had added a 12th team for 2014, the conference would have been able to have a championship game. Now, that there won't be a 12th team, it does seem to make the additions of Idaho and NMSU a lot less useful. But, realignment causes conferences to do some crazy things.

[walliver]

Good point. That must be why Idaho and NMSU got the invites instead of the dozen+ FCS schools.

Note: Georgia Southern and App St were invited to the Sun Belt.

There may be 12+ FCS teams with dreams/fantasies of going FBS, but how many of them are "shovel ready" to go today. As far as I can tell, only 2 were ready to play FBS football in 2014. Wanting to play and being able structural and financially to play are quite different.

Possibly JMU was ready but holding out for C-USA. Many of the rumored teams just are not ready. A number of them have low game attendance, and moving to the SBC won't change that.

App already has SBC-level attendance and a large stadium (probably needs some expansion to at least 35,000), GSU has already started improvements to their stadium. The other wannabes are just sitting on the sidelines (or hiring consultants).

[MplsBison]

Idaho and NMSU got the invites because they provided a very useful hedge to allow the Sun Belt to stay in existence as a conference. They need 8 full members, and they would have had 9 by 2015. If Troy went to C-USA and ULM dropped football, they'd be in the same situation as the WAC without NMSU and Idaho as insurance.

As I said: "Idaho was already FBS. Thus they had something to offer the Sun Belt immediately, versus Montana which had a null offer by being in FCS."

[MplsBison]

There may be 12+ FCS teams with dreams/fantasies of going FBS, but how many of them are "shovel ready" to go today. As far as I can tell, only 2 were ready to play FBS football in 2014. Wanting to play and being able structural and financially to play are quite different.

Possibly JMU was ready but holding out for C-USA. Many of the rumored teams just are not ready. A number of them have low game attendance, and moving to the SBC won't change that.

App already has SBC-level attendance and a large stadium (probably needs some expansion to at least 35,000), GSU has already started improvements to their stadium. The other wannabes are just sitting on the sidelines (or hiring consultants).

I wasn't the one who said there were at least a dozen FCS schools with more to offer the Sun Belt (in football) than Idaho.

To that point, I absolutely would agree that Montana (along with a few other Big Sky schools) would eventually offer more to the Sun Belt than Idaho. But immediately, they could offer nothing more to the SB as an insurance policy than App and Georgia Southern.

And as really just being that insurance policy, I don't think either Idaho or NMSU will be in the Sun Belt even mid term. Hopefully in the next 12 years either the WAC will be reborn or a new entry-level FBS conference will be created out west to serve the same function as the Sun Belt and MAC for the Pacific and Mountain time zone schools.

[dgtw]

While Montana has a stronger program, they really don't offer the Sun Belt any more than Idaho does. They are still a million miles away from the rest of the league.

[Sitting Bull]

Why would Montana want to follow Idaho's footprints anyway?

Idaho once had a solid football tradition and program, not unlike Montana today. Now they are a cupcake with a loser tradition and mentality. The bowels of FBS are just that for winning FCS programs, bowels.

[darell1976]

Why would Montana want to follow Idaho's footprints anyway?

Idaho once had a solid football tradition and program, not unlike Montana today. Now they are a cupcake with a loser tradition and mentality. The bowels of FBS are just that for winning FCS programs, bowels.

Idaho can barely fill their dome. Their football program has to be in financial trouble. They don't get big name schools (Alabama, UCLA, etc) to come up to Moscow. They are bringing in teams like Bowling Green, and FCS teams (UND has played them twice). Since Boise moved out of their conference that sunk their attendance and hype. Just drop football( or move down) and enjoy the rest of Vandal sports in the BSC.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Why would Montana want to follow Idaho's footprints anyway?

Idaho once had a solid football tradition and program, not unlike Montana today. Now they are a cupcake with a loser tradition and mentality. The bowels of FBS are just that for winning FCS programs, bowels.

That's the whole point that was being made. The BSC schools at this point don't have the desire and in particular the two that would be most ready to go. Karl Benson knows this intimately as he tried hard to get at least 5 or 6 BSC schools to jump and go nothing but doors in the face. As the SBC commisiioner he knows this already. If MT and MT State said "we're interested" he'd be all over it again because it would be short order before this would help the SBC in several key ways. A dullard would argue this point but it's not hard to see what would happen if we wanted to go...we just don't want that.

Doesn't mean those schools couldn't, means they like where they are at. As a fan I'm very happy with our conference, the competition, and everything else as it stands now and has stood for many, many years.

[darell1976]

That's the whole point that was being made. The BSC schools at this point don't have the desire and in particular the two that would be most ready to go. Karl Benson knows this intimately as he tried hard to get at least 5 or 6 BSC schools to jump and go nothing but doors in the face. As the SBC commisiioner he knows this already. If MT and MT State said "we're interested" he'd be all over it again because it would be short order before this would help the SBC in several key ways. A dullard would argue this point but it's not hard to see what would happen if we wanted to go...we just don't want that.

Doesn't mean those schools couldn't, means they like where they are at. As a fan I'm very happy with our conference, the competition, and everything else as it stands now and has stood for many, many years.

Some BSC are limited on what FBS conference to pick due to geography. No way we could get into the PAC 12 or the B1G, so that would leave the MW (very best and ideal for the Big Sky), WAC (still breathing through a tube but close to having the plug pulled after 2 years of limbo), and the Sun Belt (seems to be the new GWFC of the FBS). I would love to see UND get into the MW but that reality won't happen IMO, as for the Montana's I would say they have a chance (maybe not a great chance) at that conference due to geography and football history in the FCS. I agree with you UAH that the best conference for the BSC teams now is the Big Sky. As they say...no place like home.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Some BSC are limited on what FBS conference to pick due to geography. No way we could get into the PAC 12 or the B1G, so that would leave the MW (very best and ideal for the Big Sky), WAC (still breathing through a tube but close to having the plug pulled after 2 years of limbo), and the Sun Belt (seems to be the new GWFC of the FBS). I would love to see UND get into the MW but that reality won't happen IMO, as for the Montana's I would say they have a chance (maybe not a great chance) at that conference due to geography and football history in the FCS. I agree with you UAH that the best conference for the BSC teams now is the Big Sky. As they say...no place like home.

We can all leave the MWC out of the conversation so as not to muddy the waters. That ain't happening in the here and now as it is. I'd feel sickly if rumors of a SB invite started cropping up.

There is also no reason to ever even mention PAC or B1G for that matter. xlolx

There is nothing attractive that would be attainable as far as FBS is concerned. Case closed, Fullerton nailed it.

[darell1976]

We can all leave the MWC out of the conversation so as not to muddy the waters. That ain't happening in the here and now as it is. I'd feel sickly if rumors of a SB invite started cropping up.

There is also no reason to ever even mention PAC or B1G for that matter. xlolx

There is nothing attractive that would be attainable as far as FBS is concerned. Case closed, Fullerton nailed it.

I was just naming the conferences that are close in geography Pac 12, B1G, MW, and SB. (and WAC). Idaho should be Big Sky, plain and simple. I know they are FBS and blah blah blah (of course MPLS will be here shortly to argue that point), but the state has Boise in the FBS and very successful while Idaho isn't anymore. They had a bowl year and things looked up but when teams like BSU bailed on the WAC and stopped conference play with the Vandals that shot their enthusiasm down. The BSC is solid, and IMO the best conference overall (all sports) in retaining members.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I was just naming the conferences that are close in geography Pac 12, B1G, MW, and SB. (and WAC). Idaho should be Big Sky, plain and simple. I know they are FBS and blah blah blah (of course MPLS will be here shortly to argue that point), but the state has Boise in the FBS and very successful while Idaho isn't anymore. They had a bowl year and things looked up but when teams like BSU bailed on the WAC and stopped conference play with the Vandals that shot their enthusiasm down. The BSC is solid, and IMO the best conference overall (all sports) in retaining members.
Troof.

[superman7515]

https://twitter.com/craighaley/status/488702457602506752
Fullerton: Idaho, New Mexico St. out there as possible 14th Big Sky football members. Only when time is right. #BigSkyKickoff (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/hashtag/BigSkyKickoff?src=hash)

[clenz]

Using the Big West name does not provide I-A status, any more than the Southland could suddenly rebrand itself the Southwest Conference, or that Georgetown, Villanova, and Butler could find five more schools and suddenly get right back into the bowl playoffs.Isn't the Big East still in their 2 year window to rebrand again?

Granted, since July 1st has past it's pretty much too late though

[DFW HOYA]

Isn't the Big East still in their 2 year window to rebrand again?

Granted, since July 1st has past it's pretty much too late though

Not sure what you mean about "rebrand"--the Big East bought the rights back to their name, so there's no chance of a change at this point.

Think of it as a divorce settlement where the AAC took cash for whatever they could sell. If ESPN knew this was going on they would have fought it bitterly.

[clenz]

Not sure what you mean about "rebrand"--the Big East bought the rights back to their name, so there's no chance of a change at this point.

Think of it as a divorce settlement where the AAC took cash for whatever they could sell. If ESPN knew this was going on they would have fought it bitterly.
By "re-brand" I mean bring football back under the Big East name.

There's a 2 year window after a conference goes kaput that the league can start sponsoring football again and keep it FBS. With how jacked the the Big East situation was though I don't if that was even an option

[DFW HOYA]

There's a 2 year window after a conference goes kaput that the league can start sponsoring football again and keep it FBS. With how jacked the the Big East situation was though I don't if that was even an option

The conference, in the NCAA's view, is still sponsoring football as the AAC. The Big East, as currently defined, never did.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The conference, in the NCAA's view, is still sponsoring football as the AAC. The Big East, as currently defined, never did.

By extension, if any of its current members wanted to play FBS football, they'd have to be a member of an all-sports conference that already sponsors FBS football. They couldn't do it as a unit. So if Villanova, Richmond, whomever said they wanted to become FBS, they'd need to quit the Big East and join another conference that already sponsors it.

This could also be called the "deny Liberty the opportunity to become FBS" rule.

[clenz]

The conference, in the NCAA's view, is still sponsoring football as the AAC. The Big East, as currently defined, never did.
That's where my confusion was from.

Thanks for clearing that up.

However, the AAC doesn't retain any Big East records do they? I thought I remember looking at record books a couple months ago and didn't see any Big East records in it.

[darell1976]

https://twitter.com/craighaley/status/488702457602506752
Fullerton: Idaho, New Mexico St. out there as possible 14th Big Sky football members. Only when time is right. #BigSkyKickoff (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/hashtag/BigSkyKickoff?src=hash)

Idaho doesn't belong in the Sun Belt or FBS. Geography is kicking them, and the "little" Kibbe Dome isn't exactly packed. They can't be making any money at that level and should move back to the BSC. I haven't followed NMSU's history so I don't know how they are as far as attendance or bowl appearances, but that would be a nice trip for BSC members. Our AD used to be the AD at NMSU and would welcome them to the BSC.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

https://twitter.com/craighaley/status/488702457602506752
Fullerton: Idaho, New Mexico St. out there as possible 14th Big Sky football members. Only when time is right. #BigSkyKickoff (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/hashtag/BigSkyKickoff?src=hash)

Worthy of note is the Big Sky has 13 members. So, one OR the other, not both - unless someone is getting kicked out. Or dropping football.

[clenz]

I said it last year before the MVC added Loyola - bring back NSMU to the MVC for all sports and let them flounder in football until they have to drop back and join the MVFC

[darell1976]

Worthy of note is the Big Sky has 13 members. So, one OR the other, not both - unless someone is getting kicked out. Or dropping football.

First dibs go to Idaho, the rest of their sports start Big Sky Conference play this fall, so why not football? Because they are to proud to drop down, thinking they can still make the big times. As for NMSU, they are the clone of Idaho, except they have no affiliation with the BSC, so I don't know of any conversation with Fullerton they have had in the past. As for teams leaving, I know the obvious choice is UND to the MVFC, but it won't happen, as they (Patty V) pointed out way back (just as USD was joining the BSC) they only wanted South Dakota and never UND. I wonder how many teams would actually consider dropping football that are financially strapped? UNC? ISU?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

First dibs go to Idaho, the rest of their sports start Big Sky Conference play this fall, so why not football? Because they are to proud to drop down, thinking they can still make the big times. As for NMSU, they are the clone of Idaho, except they have no affiliation with the BSC, so I don't know of any conversation with Fullerton they have had in the past. As for teams leaving, I know the obvious choice is UND to the MVFC, but it won't happen, as they (Patty V) pointed out way back (just as USD was joining the BSC) they only wanted South Dakota and never UND. I wonder how many teams would actually consider dropping football that are financially strapped? UNC? ISU?

The one I had in mind was Portland State, but ideally:

* only Idaho joins
* only NMSU joins

Because then there's 14 members and no need to add/delete.

In football, you'd have to go to two 7-team divisions, 6+2+3 schedules. 6 intra-division, 2 inter-division, 3 OOC.

[darell1976]

The one I had in mind was Portland State, but ideally:

* only Idaho joins
* only NMSU joins

Because then there's 14 members and no need to add/delete.

In football, you'd have to go to two 7-team divisions, 6+2+3 schedules. 6 intra-division, 2 inter-division, 3 OOC.

Can you be in the playoffs if you have divisions? (ex. SWAC)

[superman7515]

Yes (ex. the old CAA)

[dewey]

As for teams leaving, I know the obvious choice is UND to the MVFC, but it won't happen, as they (Patty V) pointed out way back (just as USD was joining the BSC) they only wanted South Dakota and never UND. I wonder how many teams would actually consider dropping football that are financially strapped? UNC? ISU?

I agree with your obvious choice Darell. I still think it makes sense to add UND to the MVFC and the Summit as they are a giant geographical outlier for the Big Sky. Yes UND is a long trip for the Illinois schools, Indiana State and Youngstown but YSU and Indiana State are long trips for the current 3 Dakota schools. Then the Big Sky could add Idaho and/or New Mexico State.

Dewey

[DFW HOYA]

By extension, if any of its current members wanted to play FBS football, they'd have to be a member of an all-sports conference that already sponsors FBS football. They couldn't do it as a unit. So if Villanova, Richmond, whomever said they wanted to become FBS, they'd need to quit the Big East and join another conference that already sponsors it.

Or go independent? Granted, very little bowl access, but it's an option.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Or go independent? Granted, very little bowl access, but it's an option.

You can only go independent if you're already FBS. That's why UMass is an FBS independent right now and Liberty is not.

UMass joined the MAC for football-only, which allowed them to transition to FBS. Now they're FBS, and can go independent. But Liberty can't just say "We're going FBS and will be independent!" They need to join an FBS conference first, then transition ,then they can do as they please as an FBS school.

[darell1976]

I agree with your obvious choice Darell. I still think it makes sense to add UND to the MVFC and the Summit as they are a giant geographical outlier for the Big Sky. Yes UND is a long trip for the Illinois schools, Indiana State and Youngstown but YSU and Indiana State are long trips for the current 3 Dakota schools. Then the Big Sky could add Idaho and/or New Mexico State.

Dewey

Sounds logical, but this also may throw a little wrench in that. I wonder if Fullerton will do what he could to keep UND?


Upon acceptance of this memoradum the University of Idaho shall immediately deposit 50% of $250,000 entry fee with the Big Sky conference. This entry fee is non-refundable. The only exception shall be, should there be a significant loss of membership by the Big Sky Conference prior to July 1, 2014, the University of Idaho may notify the league of its intention not to join the league and the deposit will be refunded. A significant loss of members would be defined as the loss of any or all of the following institutions from the Big Sky Conference: the University of Montana, Montana State University, or the University or North Dakota. The remaining 50% is due July 1, 2014.

Posted from SiouxVolley on siouxsports.com
http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/19202-und-and-the-big-sky-could-go-fbs/page__st__120

[DFW HOYA]

You can only go independent if you're already FBS. That's why UMass is an FBS independent right now and Liberty is not.


So if Liberty went to 85 scholarships without a conference, what then?

[Bisonator]

Sounds logical, but this also may throw a little wrench in that. I wonder if Fullerton will do what he could to keep UND?


Posted from SiouxVolley on siouxsports.com
http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/19202-und-and-the-big-sky-could-go-fbs/page__st__120

xlolx

[Bisonoline]

So if Liberty went to 85 scholarships without a conference, what then?

I dont think the NCAA would sanction them to play and other teams would of course avoid them like the plague. They would be a team with nobody to play.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So if Liberty went to 85 scholarships without a conference, what then?

They wouldn't be playing NCAA football.

[CrazyCat]

http://i.imgur.com/jEaBTaE.gif

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Since when did the Sun Belt get so picky?