Yale vs Dartmouth

[URMite]

A couple of threads here led me to looking at old Ivy schedules. And one game stood out...

Since it is the off season I'll ask, is there a story behind why the 44 games (or so) between 1924-1970 were all at Yale? I mean they were in the same conference from 1956-1970.

Yes, I'm bored...xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I believe the answer is Dartmouth didn't have a big enough stadium to host the game. Brown is another school who played many of their Early and Golden era games at Harvard due to this as well.

[Pard4Life]

I believe the answer is Dartmouth didn't have a big enough stadium to host the game. Brown is another school who played many of their Early and Golden era games at Harvard due to this as well.

Same reason why Lafayette played every game from 1891 to 1973 at Franklin Field: the stadium held 60,000 and LC received a cut of the gate... Penn ran up an atrocious win-loss record as a result of the uneven schedule. When played in Easton, Pards actually have a winning record, I believe.

LFN... horrible avatar. Looks like something I'd flush down...

[Ivytalk]

Harvard-Dartmouth was the same way until the 70s. The game was a big draw and Harvard had a bigger stadium. "Dartmouth: where men are men, and the sheep are scared!":p

[DFW HOYA]

Happened at the major college level, too. Texas A&M played at Rice from 1957 through 1967. Rice Stadium (70,000) was much larger, and the A&M fans in Houston could then get to see a game there that they may not have at Kyle Field.

The Lafayette-Penn game may not be the best example in that it's not a conference matchup and Penn may have exercised a home field exclusivity as part of the deal. Georgetown played at Navy 19 straight times, and when Georgetown was playing at Griffith Stadium (32,000), that certainly was larger than 12,000 seat Robert Thompson Stadium. More than likely, Navy simply demanded a home game or no game at all.

[Go Green]

I believe the answer is Dartmouth didn't have a big enough stadium to host the game. Brown is another school who played many of their Early and Golden era games at Harvard due to this as well.

Ditto for Cornell and Columbia.

Dartmouth ended that arrangement inn the mid 1970s and expanded memorial field to accommodate visiting crowds from Harvard, Yale Princeton and penn. some two generations later we downsized memorial field again, but I've heard words that we went too far and may expand again soon.

[DFW HOYA]

Ditto for Cornell and Columbia.

Dartmouth ended that arrangement inn the mid 1970s and expanded memorial field to accommodate visiting crowds from Harvard, Yale Princeton and penn. some two generations later we downsized memorial field again, but I've heard words that we went too far and may expand again soon.

Where woiuld the expansion be? Didnt the construction of the Floren Center make this difficult from the visitors' side?

Would anyone propose rebuilding Memorial Field top to bottom?

[Go Green]

Where woiuld the expansion be? Didnt the construction of the Floren Center make this difficult from the visitors' side?

Would anyone propose rebuilding Memorial Field top to bottom?

The historical side is in dire need of remodeling due to age. They planed to gut the inside but retain the outer facade in 2009, but the economic crash put those plans on hold.

I was told at a booster meeting that the plans to redo the home stands are back on the front burner, and we will hope to add seats. They were vague on how many, but there is space to lengthening it if that's what they have in mind.

[Go...gate]

Dartmouth played only at Princeton for many, many years as well. Similarly, Colgate played very few home games until the mid 1990's and almost always played the Ivies (except Brown and Cornell) on the road.

[Ivytalk]

Dartmouth played only at Princeton for many, many years as well. Similarly, Colgate played very few home games until the mid 1990's and almost always played the Ivies (except Brown and Cornell) on the road.

Gate, my son and I attended the '95 Harvard-Colgate game in Hamilton on parents' weekend. There must have been 8000 to 10,000 people hanging around outside the stadium on a beautiful day. Maybe 3000 people found their way inside. You guys had an irritating old Phart PA announcer who had a habit of talking just as Harvard was about to run a play!

[Green26]

Dartmouth played Yale in Hanover in 1971, for the only the second time ever (prior game in 1898, I believe). The Harvard and Yale games were on the road every year for decades, due to the large crowds that came to Harvard Stadium and the Yale Bowl. Closer to the big cities. Lots of Dartmouth alums. The 1970 Dartmouth-Yale game had almost 61,000. Sports Illustrated did a 2-page story on the game. Dartmouth won the Lambert Trophy that year, ahead of 7-3 Penn St. In 1969, attendance at the Dartmouth-Yale game was over 50,000 (maybe 55,000). The Dartmouth players loved playing the games in Harvard Stadium and the Yale Bowl. Calvin Hill's last season for Yale was 1968. Dick Jauron was Yale's running back starting in 1970. Dartmouth didn't expand its stadium in the early 70's to accommodate the games in Hanover. The 1970 Dartmouth-Princeton game had the largest attendance ever at Dartmouth's stadium. It's no. 2 now, as Dartmouth-Harvard in 1980 had a larger attendance.

[URMite]

Thanks guys! It was being in the same conference that made it seem strange to me. For instance, Richmond has had very few home games against UVA but played nearly a home & home with VA Tech until 1985. I believe that is because UVA was in the ACC and VA Tech was in the Southern Conference with Richmond from 1936-1964. That seemed to lead to them continuing to visit as long as they could, eventually our 22k seat stadium was too small for them.

[grayghost06]

Thanks guys! It was being in the same conference that made it seem strange to me. For instance, Richmond has had very few home games against UVA but played nearly a home & home with VA Tech until 1985. I believe that is because UVA was in the ACC and VA Tech was in the Southern Conference with Richmond from 1936-1964. That seemed to lead to them continuing to visit as long as they could, eventually our 22k seat stadium was too small for them.

It might have been an ACC superiority complex, but up until 1979, UVA was playing in a 25k Scott Stadium. Quite frankly, they didn't draw all that well in their OOC games.

Interesting too was the Colgate- Syracuse rivalry. They played basically every year from 1902-1961 and never played in Hamilton. Colgate should not play the 'Cuse any longer in football-they lead the all time series 31-30.

[Go...gate]

Gate, my son and I attended the '95 Harvard-Colgate game in Hamilton on parents' weekend. There must have been 8000 to 10,000 people hanging around outside the stadium on a beautiful day. Maybe 3000 people found their way inside. You guys had an irritating old Phart PA announcer who had a habit of talking just as Harvard was about to run a play!

The late Bill Oostenik was the announcer. For years, very few teams would come to Hamilton, save Lehigh, Lafayette, Cornell, Rutgers, Brown, Columbia, Bucknell and a few others. Beginning in the 1990's and the interlocking Patriot-Ivy scheduling, Colgate sought to schedule more home games, and actually got Princeton, Harvard, Yale and Dartmouth to come to Hamilton. The 1990 Princeton game was the first time the Tigers ever visited Colgate and I think the 1995 Harvard game was the first time you guys came to Hamilton.

[Cooper]

Not only are there no plans to expand Dartmouth's Memorial Field, but the reality is that the home stands, if they are ever torn down and rebuilt, will seat fewer fans because the site plans require maintaining the same footprint (and height) while including wider aisles, railings and more handicapped seating per code. Beyond that, there is absolutely no need for more seats.

[Go Green]

Not only are there no plans to expand Dartmouth's Memorial Field, but the reality is that the home stands, if they are ever torn down and rebuilt, will seat fewer fans because the site plans require maintaining the same footprint (and height) while including wider aisles, railings and more handicapped seating per code. Beyond that, there is absolutely no need for more seats.

You may be technicaly correct that no "plans" exist to expand the seating capacity, but I can assure you that the boosters were told that there were hopes to expand last weekend. We will see what happens. The stands need to be replaced in the very near future, so we will find out soon enough.

And trust me- in the right circumstances, Dartmouth can aboslutely draw more than 15,000 for a game. While I agree that most games at Memorial Field will draw four figures from here on, Dartmouth against Harvard or Yale for the de facto championship on a nice October evening under the lights will bring in plenty of people.

[bulldog10jw]

While I agree that most games at Memorial Field will draw four figures from here on, Dartmouth against Harvard or Yale for the de facto championship on a nice October evening under the lights will bring in plenty of people.

Reminds me that I miss the days when the Yale-Dartmouth game was Halloween week. Probably because we were both good in those days.

[bulldog10jw]

I remember that originally, Dartmouth was supposed to get a home game every 4 years, but after that first game in Hanover things changed, even though attendance in the Bowl was still pretty good through the '70's.

[bostonspider]

Of course unlike the UVA series, Richmond hosted the annual battle with W&M all but three times between 1923 and 1964. Since 1965 the game has alternated between Wiliamsburg and Richmond. Now this game was often played on Thanksgiving, and I am guessing that the much larger 22,000 seat stadium in Richmond was the natural spot to play the game.

[Cooper]

in the right circumstances, Dartmouth can aboslutely draw more than 15,000 for a game. While I agree that most games at Memorial Field will draw four figures from here on, Dartmouth against Harvard or Yale for the de facto championship on a nice October evening under the lights will bring in plenty of people.

Assuming your are right (and I'm not sure you are) it doesn't make any sense to build in extra seats and the expense that goes with it just for one game every few years. Keep in mind there's a reason they cut the capacity down and it wasn't just to fit in the varsity house. The atmosphere is much, much better when there are fewer empty seats. To add capacity would mean to add more empty seats for the vast majority of games.

If they seat 13,000 as they do now and 15,000 want to get into a particular game every few years that's a good thing. It would make a ticket a valuable commodity and encourage people to buy season tickets and individual game tickets in advance.

[Go Green]

If they seat 13,000 as they do now and 15,000 want to get into a particular game every few years that's a good thing. It would make a ticket a valuable commodity and encourage people to buy season tickets and individual game tickets in advance.

I understand the theory, but I'm not really sure that's the way Dartmouth (or the league) operates. For one thing, we give a lot of tickets away. Not sure how many, but if I'm able to catch somebody in the football office the Friday before a game (which doesn't always happen because they're all super busy), I usually end up walking out with free tickets. (Of course, I'm also a decent donor). I think they'd rather get a nice picture of a 15,000 crowd every few years to hang on the walls of the football offices rather than people willing to pay an extra buck for season tickets.

Keep your eyes on the Yale Bowl and Franklin Field though. If they bring capacity down to 35,000 seats, then we'll talk.