Delaware State AD Plays the Race Card

[Ivytalk]

This morning's News-Urinal contained a story where the white, 61-year-old AD of Delaware State flatly alleged that simple racism was the only plausible explanation for Delaware's failure/refusal to play DSU in football. The Delaware AD, Edgar Johnson, essentially took a "no comment" approach and said that a UD-DSU game would happen "someday." (That's the same thing we hear every year.) Any comments from Hen faithful or Hen-haters?

[89Hen]

So why has this game never happened?

Take your pick...

A. Money
B. Pride
C. Racism
D. Ennui

Everyone has a theory.

DING-DING-DING... we have a winner.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Interesting

[Cap'n Cat]

Another reason to split I-AA into White and Colored divisions.

[Hansel]

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/09/election.president/link.jesse.jackson.ap.jpg

"The University... of Delaware..is a racist....Institution"

[IaaScribe]

Ivy, do you have a link to the story?

[Tribe4SF]

Another reason to split I-AA into White and Colored divisions.

Exsqueeze me?!?!:eyebrow:

I think Bell is probably on the money.

[ChickenMan]

Ivy, do you have a link to the story?

"I'm convinced the basis is racism," said Bell, the first white athletic director in DSU history. "UD is a white school and DSU is a historically black school, and it's one of those things left over from the days of separate restrooms and separate seating areas."

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060907/SPORTS08/309070001/1002/SPORTS

[89Hen]

I think Bell is probably on the money.
GSU has wanted a game with GT for quite a while. GT did not want the game even though GSU was in-state. I don't think racism played into that one. Just because DSU is an HBCU doesn't mean that UD won't play them because they are racists. : smh :

[dbackjon]

To me, racism/elitism is the only logical answer to this.

UD needs to clean house in it's athletic department. To refuse to play DSU EVER is inexcusable.

[AppGuy04]

Good Lord

[Slammer50111]

Ok I don't know the history on this and I am sure somewhere it has been stated but why don't they play each other. I would think it would be a great in state game that everyone would enjoy.

[dbackjon]

GSU has wanted a game with GT for quite a while. GT did not want the game even though GSU was in-state. I don't think racism played into that one. Just because DSU is an HBCU doesn't mean that UD won't play them because they are racists. : smh :

Do GT and GSU play in the same football sub-division? NO
Does UD and DSU play in the same football sub-division? YES

Apples and Oranges, Hen.

[Cap'n Cat]

To me, racism/elitism is the only logical answer to this.

UD needs to clean house in it's athletic department. To refuse to play DSU EVER is inexcusable.


Agreed.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[89Hen]

Do GT and GSU play in the same football sub-division? NO
Does UD and DSU play in the same football sub-division? YES

Apples and Oranges, Hen.
GT plays I-AAs. They get credit for playing I-AAs. Subdivision has no bearing on it.

[Tribe4SF]

GSU has wanted a game with GT for quite a while. GT did not want the game even though GSU was in-state. I don't think racism played into that one. Just because DSU is an HBCU doesn't mean that UD won't play them because they are racists. : smh :

Institutional racism is subtle and persistent. We had a long dialog about this issue on the CAAZone about a year and a half ago. Bell's reference to leftovers of the days of separate bathrooms was confirmed by the perspective of a number of Delaware posters during that discussion, who were actually concerned that there would be violence perpetrated by Del. St. fans. The rationale was that there had been violence after a high school playoff game at the Tub. They then went on to degrade Del. St. as an institution. I believe the perspective of separation is at the heart of the reasons the two teams have never met.

[89Hen]

I would think it would be a great in state game that everyone would enjoy.
I don't. I was born, raised and schooled in Delaware and I never gave DSU a second thought about anything. It has nothing to do with them being an HBCU (BTW, they have a pretty large white enrollment). It has to do with them having no fans, no facilities, no excitement around the program. They are a non-factor for 75% of the state. People drive past DSU to get to Delaware football games from Sussex County.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

It has to do with them having no fans, no facilities, no excitement around the program. They are a non-factor for 75% of the state.

I really don't care one way or another about a UD / DSU game, but you also just described a good portion of the A-10 in this quote.

[UD77]

This is a case of simply making headlines. We play them in every other sport. I wish we would play them once in a while but we are able to get HOME games from Westchester and others each year. I don't know if DSU would agree to come to the TUB each year. If they would I would say bring them on. By the way - I haven't counted the number of black players on the team but I would guess that it is 50/50 or so. I would also guess that the school has at least the same percent of blacks on campus or more as the number of blacks represented in the general population. Bogus argument aimed only at starting trouble. :mad:

[OL FU]

I don't. I was born, raised and schooled in Delaware and I never gave DSU a second thought about anything. It has nothing to do with them being an HBCU (BTW, they have a pretty large white enrollment). It has to do with them having no fans, no facilities, no excitement around the program. They are a non-factor for 75% of the state. People drive past DSU to get to Delaware football games from Sussex County.

And it would be Gawd awful if DSU won:eek: :D

[Cap'n Cat]

Exsqueeze me?!?!:eyebrow:





xlolx

[dbackjon]

I don't. I was born, raised and schooled in Delaware and I never gave DSU a second thought about anything. It has nothing to do with them being an HBCU (BTW, they have a pretty large white enrollment). It has to do with them having no fans, no facilities, no excitement around the program. They are a non-factor for 75% of the state. People drive past DSU to get to Delaware football games from Sussex County.

Well, maybe if you would stop treating DSU as an ugly step-child, they could build the University. This attitude IS directly linked to the segregation of past years, whether you want to admit it or not. DSU is percieved as inferior, and students are steered away from it.

The exact same attitude is prevalent in Nashville regarding TSU. When my partner and I moved to Nashville, and we were looking into a college for Rob to continue his education, the attitude was "you don't want to go to TSU, you should drive the extra 30 miles and go to MTSU - you won't "fit in" at TSU. :rolleyes:

[LUHawker]

If I was UD, I wouldn't play DSU either. Why should I? I've got the market for college football in Delaware cornered. Why would I want to assist a competitor. I know this sounds very cut-throat, but that is clearly part of the reason. The other reasons are several. UD can get good OOC games when it wants (ie Lehigh, GSU, Navy, etc.) - these are teams UD fans want to see as opponents. DSU is historically a poor program with no history with UD. Why should UD want to START history here? If they play DSU, that potentially helps DSU's and hurts UD's in-state recruiting - maybe it's not a huge deal, but it's not beneficial at the margin. I'm sure there might be other reasons, but I don't see 'racism' as a prevalent one.

I can't believe I just defended UD, but I've got to call it like I see it. BTW, UD and Lehigh really do need to get back on each other's schedules.

[89Hen]

you also just described a good portion of the A-10 in this quote.
URI and NU would be the only two A10's you could even start to compare to DSU in terms of facilities and support. But we don't get to pick and choose conference mates (especially when they were in the conference first).

[89Hen]

Well, maybe if you would stop treating DSU as an ugly step-child, they could build the University. This attitude IS directly linked to the segregation of past years, whether you want to admit it or not. DSU is percieved as inferior, and students are steered away from it.
When it comes to football they are inferior and it has nothing to do with segregation. So you're saying UD owes it to DSU to play them? This is exactly why I'm opposed to the game. xcoffeex

[Tribe4SF]

This is a case of simply making headlines. We play them in every other sport. I wish we would play them once in a while but we are able to get HOME games from Westchester and others each year. I don't know if DSU would agree to come to the TUB each year. If they would I would say bring them on. By the way - I haven't counted the number of black players on the team but I would guess that it is 50/50 or so. I would also guess that the school has at least the same percent of blacks on campus or more as the number of blacks represented in the general population. Bogus argument aimed only at starting trouble. :mad:

The article addresses that. 5.6% Black at UD...20.4% in the state. You won't find reasoning or answers to this in racial statistics. You only find them in the lingering attitudes of separation. 89 Hen lays down the prevailing perspective...that DSU is inferior.

[eaglesrthe1]

GT plays I-AAs. They get credit for playing I-AAs. Subdivision has no bearing on it.

GT didn't want to play GSU because of the style of offense that GSU ran and proficiency at which GSU ran it...IOW they were afraid they might lose, and didn't want to devote the time to practice against it when they probably wouldn't see it again. Now that GSU doesn't run the same O, negotiations are under way.

[youwouldno]

UD can schedule whoever they want. I don't think the UD-DSU thing has anything to do with "racism," unless you stretch the idea of "racism" enough-- to the point of the evil subconcious of UD's athletic department. Ridiculous, but apparently that's a widely held view here.

[Tribe4SF]

If I was UD, I wouldn't play DSU either. Why should I? I've got the market for college football in Delaware cornered. Why would I want to assist a competitor. I know this sounds very cut-throat, but that is clearly part of the reason. The other reasons are several. UD can get good OOC games when it wants (ie Lehigh, GSU, Navy, etc.) - these are teams UD fans want to see as opponents. DSU is historically a poor program with no history with UD. Why should UD want to START history here? If they play DSU, that potentially helps DSU's and hurts UD's in-state recruiting - maybe it's not a huge deal, but it's not beneficial at the margin. I'm sure there might be other reasons, but I don't see 'racism' as a prevalent one.

I can't believe I just defended UD, but I've got to call it like I see it. BTW, UD and Lehigh really do need to get back on each other's schedules.

Why start history with Albany? In-state games are always interesting and create alot of promotion. W&M has played every in-state I-AA since we came to the division. The attractiveness of these games is a no-brainer.

[89Hen]

You only find them in the lingering attitudes of separation. 89 Hen lays down the prevailing perspective...that DSU is inferior.
In football, DSU is inferior in level of play, fan support, facilities, etc.... Can you possibly argue otherwise? If you want to argue separation, please keep it aimed at separation of level of football programs and don't try to imply anything else.

LUHawker had some keem observations in his post. Please read it if you haven't. UD-DSU is a one way street pointed to Dover. The Hens are selling out every home game and pull fans from the entire state. What other reason would UD possibly have to play the game other than to shut-up all the people asking for the game?

[Tribe4SF]

In football, DSU is inferior in level of play, fan support, facilities, etc.... Can you possibly argue otherwise? If you want to argue separation, please keep it aimed at separation of level of football programs and don't try to imply anything else.

LUHawker had some keem observations in his post. Please read it if you haven't. UD-DSU is a one way street pointed to Dover. The Hens are selling out every home game and pull fans from the entire state. What other reason would UD possibly have to play the game other than to shut-up all the people asking for the game?

Having an inferior football program doesn't keep UD from playing other schools. If they were scheduling Furman, YSU, Montana or GSU with any regularity your perspective would hold water. Holy Cross, Albany and West Chester blow holes in that argument.

[89Hen]

GT didn't want to play GSU because of the style of offense that GSU ran and proficiency at which GSU ran it
:nod: And it had nothing to do with racism. Football programs can decide who they want to play based on who they want to play.

[eaglesrthe1]

UD can schedule whoever they want. I don't think the UD-DSU thing has anything to do with "racism," unless you stretch the idea of "racism" enough-- to the point of the evil subconcious of UD's athletic department. Ridiculous, but apparently that's a widely held view here.

I think that it was racism in the past...and that now it would seem like caving to pressure. So now, it's whatever reason you can drum up to make it seem like that was the reason all along.

It seems that UD can't give DSU a home and home, because that would be like UD saying that DSU is the equal... in quality of program and fan support... When UD obviously thinks that they aren't. I thought that I remember that there were discussions in the past, but that the hang up was the home and home issue?

[89Hen]

Having an inferior football program doesn't keep UD from playing other schools. If they were scheduling Furman, YSU, Montana or GSU with any regularity your perspective would hold water. Holy Cross, Albany and West Chester blow holes in that argument.
You're confusing who's arguement is who's. I made no claims that UD only schedules top I-AA programs. My saying DSU is inferior is in response to you and others saying that UD somehow perceives DSU as inferior while implying that it's racially motivated and not becase they really are an inferior football program.

FWIW, while I'm sick of playing WCUPA, I've been looking forward to the Albany game since it was announced. They are an up and coming I-AA who is spending money and improving their program and I've seen very little of them in action.

[AppGuy04]

:nod: And it had nothing to do with racism. Football programs can decide who they want to play based on who they want to play.

Thank you Hen. Saying that a whole athletic dept is racist is crazy and proving it is impossible even if it was true.

[eaglesrthe1]

:nod: And it had nothing to do with racism. Football programs can decide who they want to play based on who they want to play.
Of course it didn't. It's just useless to use that situation as a comparison. GSU isn't even a HBCU.

[Cap'n Cat]

UD can schedule whoever they want. I don't think the UD-DSU thing has anything to do with "racism," unless you stretch the idea of "racism" enough-- to the point of the evil subconcious of UD's athletic department. Ridiculous, but apparently that's a widely held view here.

I think you're right, you-bee. They seem to have no tradition of playing, so it's a non-ishy.

They'll play one day.

[Go...gate]

I respect UD a great deal, but there is no good excuse for this. They don't have to play every year (Colgate and Cornell have had series hiatuses over the past century), but they should do a home-n-home once in a while.

[blukeys]

If I was UD, I wouldn't play DSU either. Why should I? I've got the market for college football in Delaware cornered. Why would I want to assist a competitor. I know this sounds very cut-throat, but that is clearly part of the reason. The other reasons are several. UD can get good OOC games when it wants (ie Lehigh, GSU, Navy, etc.) - these are teams UD fans want to see as opponents. DSU is historically a poor program with no history with UD. Why should UD want to START history here? If they play DSU, that potentially helps DSU's and hurts UD's in-state recruiting - maybe it's not a huge deal, but it's not beneficial at the margin. I'm sure there might be other reasons, but I don't see 'racism' as a prevalent one.
.



Probably. the best explanation out there.

[89Hen]

W&M has played every in-state I-AA since we came to the division. The attractiveness of these games is a no-brainer.
When you're not selling out games, I guess it would be good to try and drum up interest. If UD were playing in front of 10,000 fans in a 20,000 seat stadium and I thought a UD/DSU game would sell-out, I'd be all for the game.

[rcny46]

This is a case of simply making headlines. We play them in every other sport. I wish we would play them once in a while but we are able to get HOME games from Westchester and others each year. I don't know if DSU would agree to come to the TUB each year. If they would I would say bring them on. By the way - I haven't counted the number of black players on the team but I would guess that it is 50/50 or so. I would also guess that the school has at least the same percent of blacks on campus or more as the number of blacks represented in the general population. Bogus argument aimed only at starting trouble. :mad:


I have to agree with you.I simply can't believe that Bell's assertions are valid or have any basis in fact.Totally ridiculous.

[NSUDemon98]

GT didn't want to play GSU because of the style of offense that GSU ran and proficiency at which GSU ran it...IOW they were afraid they might lose, and didn't want to devote the time to practice against it when they probably wouldn't see it again. Now that GSU doesn't run the same O, negotiations are under way.

Grambling won't schedule a game with Northwestern St....those racist bastards..Same thing with Louisiana Tech, those racist bastards...

In case you can't tell, I was being sarcastic. I just think people are so quick to throw the race card...it is like using a fatality on Mortal Combat.

[89Hen]

Of course it didn't. It's just useless to use that situation as a comparison. GSU isn't even a HBCU.
I think you missed my point. The fact is that GT did not want to schedule GSU, we all agree on that. And the fact that it couldn't be racially motivated just proves that a program can choose to not play an in-state opponent for reasons that have nothing to do with race. GSU being a I-AA has little to do with it because GT does in fact play I-AA's.

One arguement that the people use in favor of a UD/DSU game is that it would keep the money in state. While that is true, wouldn't the same be said of GT playing GSU instead of Furman, WCU, Samford...?

[eaglesrthe1]

When you're not selling out games, I guess it would be good to try and drum up interest. If UD were playing in front of 10,000 fans in a 20,000 seat stadium and I thought a UD/DSU game would sell-out, I'd be all for the game.

Part of the reason that GSU hasn't played SSU in a while. SSU brought an extra 4-6k fans with them and they wanted extra $$$ above what GSU paid to other DII's to visit because of that. GSU said "we're an 1 hour bus ride away, so no road expenses. There's your extra $$$ right there." Both valid points, so they don't play... to the detriment of both schools. Go figure.

[McNeese72]

Grambling won't schedule a game with Northwestern St....those racist bastards..Same thing with Louisiana Tech, those racist bastards...

In case you can't tell, I was being sarcastic. I just think people are so quick to throw the race card...it is like using a fatality on Mortal Combat.

And Southern won't re-schedule the McNeese home half of our home and home contract with them. But I don't think it is racism, they just don't want to get their butts kicked again. :)

Doc

I did enjoy our games with Grambling and the one with Southern. Their fans were nice and we had fun with them. We have also done home and homes with Prairie View and Alcorn St.

[GaSouthern]

racism HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
winey morons!

[GSUISBACK]

I respect UD a great deal, but there is no good excuse for this. They don't have to play every year (Colgate and Cornell have had series hiatuses over the past century), but they should do a home-n-home once in a while.
Exactly

[Ivytalk]

If I was UD, I wouldn't play DSU either. Why should I? I've got the market for college football in Delaware cornered. Why would I want to assist a competitor. I know this sounds very cut-throat, but that is clearly part of the reason. The other reasons are several. UD can get good OOC games when it wants (ie Lehigh, GSU, Navy, etc.) - these are teams UD fans want to see as opponents. DSU is historically a poor program with no history with UD. Why should UD want to START history here? If they play DSU, that potentially helps DSU's and hurts UD's in-state recruiting - maybe it's not a huge deal, but it's not beneficial at the margin. I'm sure there might be other reasons, but I don't see 'racism' as a prevalent one.

I can't believe I just defended UD, but I've got to call it like I see it. BTW, UD and Lehigh really do need to get back on each other's schedules.

Good post, but UD actually draws very few in-state players. Most come from PA, NJ, MD and other Eastern states. My view is that fear of losing to an inferior program -- regardless of race -- is more of a factor than recruiting. The game won't happen until Edgar Johnson is dead and buried, and the same story will come up every year.:twocents: .

[Lehigh Football Nation]

:nod: And it had nothing to do with racism. Football programs can decide who they want to play based on who they want to pay.

Wasn't that a typo, Hen? (corrected above)

This is economics, pure and simple. Delaware can put a "local" D-II team on the schedule every year -- for a home game -- and still get the same attendance, without disrupting their market (Delaware football). There's no need to schedule DSU, even though it would get lots of local coverage.

Presumably you'd pay less to West Chester, you'd still get a sellout - so, no need to schedule DSU. Pure economics, no race involved.

My big question is: Why doesn't DSU schedule Towson if they want to play A-10/CAA competition? They're just down the road, they already have a history playing MEAC teams (see: Morgan State) and you'd probably get a home-and-home out of the deal. Beat them a bunch of times, and I bet Delaware gives you a call rather than the other way around.

[ChickenMan]

UD will never admit it but... I really believe that a major factor in UD's reluctance to play Delaware St... is the fear of potential 'crowd' problems. UD hosts the Delaware Blue/Gold HS All-Star game and they have in the past also played host to the State Championship HS football game. Unfortunately UD has experienced some serious crowd related incidents while hosting each of those HS events. I have no doubt that there is a very real fear that a UD/DSU game would attract some of the same element (non-football fans looking for trouble). This is not a knock on DSU or their fans... as there is no reason to anticipate any problem from the Hornets or their fans... but it would be a little naïve not to be concerned that the matchup may attract a portion of the crowd that is more interested in stirring up trouble... rather than watching a football game.

[eaglesrthe1]

I think you missed my point. The fact is that GT did not want to schedule GSU, we all agree on that. And the fact that it couldn't be racially motivated just proves that a program can choose to not play an in-state opponent for reasons that have nothing to do with race. GSU being a I-AA has little to do with it because GT does in fact play I-AA's.

One arguement that the people use in favor of a UD/DSU game is that it would keep the money in state. While that is true, wouldn't the same be said of GT playing GSU instead of Furman, WCU, Samford...?
It would be true. Apparently, just not a compelling enough reason in GT's viewpoint to overide the other reasons that I listed. I didn't miss your point, of course there are other reasons that could possibly be used. It's just that most don't apply in the UD- DSU case.

Like I said, about the only reason that could apply now from UD's standpoint is the home-home/ quality of program standpoint. While from DSU's standpoint it is the opportunity to right a past wrong...or continue that wrong.

UD just has to decide if the value of the home game is worth the negative publicity/ appearance of rasicsm. So far, it seems that it is.

[Tribe4SF]

UD will never admit it but... I really believe that a major factor in UD's reluctance to play Delaware St... is the fear of potential 'crowd' problems. UD hosts the Delaware Blue/Gold HS All-Star game and they have in the past also played host to the State Championship HS football game. Unfortunately UD has experienced some serious crowd related incidents while hosting each of those HS events. I have no doubt that there is a very real fear that a UD/DSU game would attract some of the same element (non-football fans looking for trouble). This is not a knock on DSU or their fans... as there is no reason to anticipate any problem from the Hornets or their fans... but it would be a little naïve not to be concerned that the matchup may attract a portion of the crowd that is more interested in stirring up trouble... rather than watching a football game.

There it is! What do those high school games have to do with DSU or their fans? What do you really mean by "some of the same element"? What evidence is there that "the matchup may attract a portion of the crowd that is more interested in stirring up trouble"?

[LacesOut]

Living in and being from DE, I would love to see this matchup, just for the simple fact that they've never played eachother.

Do a home and home in 2008 or 2009, then be done with the issue forever.

Maybe UD's next AD will put forth a little more effort to schedule this game.

[McNeese72]

UD will never admit it but... I really believe that a major factor in UD's reluctance to play Delaware St... is the fear of potential 'crowd' problems

We had some people saying the same things before we played Grambling and Southern. And it was all a bunch of crap, nothing ever happened and we got along well with their fans.

Doc

[pksundevil]

I was born and raised a UD fan, I'm a UD grad, I go to as many games as I can, and this issue is a constant embarassment.

UD should play DSU ASAP. That's my view.

I'm a gohens.net member, not much of a poster- but this is the one issue where I think the diehard fans on these boards really miss the sentiment of the state and the overall fan base. I think if you surveyed the 22,000 that will be at Delaware Stadium this week, you'd find overwhelming support for the concept. You'd find even more support if you proposed that DSU would replace Albany, or Holy Cross, or West Chester, or Monmouth (what a joke) on the schedule. No one is suggesting the game would be anywhere other than Newark. UD is out of excuses. And I say that as an alum, a donor, and a fan.

Let UD beat the Hornets soundly on the field. If it happens that way, so what? It's a win that counts for the playoffs, which is more than can be said for West Chester and I think Monmouth.

Is it racism? I don't know. I hate that word and think it's overused. But it certainly involves some elements of prejudice against the perceived DSU fan base, and it certainly involves some arrogance on Edgar's part. I'm hoping the new President next year will get the game on the schedule and settle this.

[Tribe4SF]

I was born and raised a UD fan, I'm a UD grad, I go to as many games as I can, and this issue is a constant embarassment.

UD should play DSU ASAP. That's my view.

I'm a gohens.net member, not much of a poster- but this is the one issue where I think the diehard fans on these boards really miss the sentiment of the state and the overall fan base. I think if you surveyed the 22,000 that will be at Delaware Stadium this week, you'd find overwhelming support for the concept. You'd find even more support if you proposed that DSU would replace Albany, or Holy Cross, or West Chester, or Monmouth (what a joke) on the schedule. No one is suggesting the game would be anywhere other than Newark. UD is out of excuses. And I say that as an alum, a donor, and a fan.

Let UD beat the Hornets soundly on the field. If it happens that way, so what? It's a win that counts for the playoffs, which is more than can be said for West Chester and I think Monmouth.

Is it racism? I don't know. I hate that word and think it's overused. But it certainly involves some elements of prejudice against the perceived DSU fan base, and it certainly involves some arrogance on Edgar's part. I'm hoping the new President next year will get the game on the schedule and settle this.

Amen.

[LacesOut]

Amen.

Double Amen!!

pksundevil,

Nice post. Welcome to the board also.

[ChickenMan]

There it is! What do those high school games have to do with DSU or their fans? What do you really mean by "some of the same element"? What evidence is there that "the matchup may attract a portion of the crowd that is more interested in stirring up trouble"?

Apparently you missed or ignored my comment that it has NOTHING to do with DSU or their fans... but it's not an unreasonable concern that a DSU/UD game may attract some of the same non-football fan element that has caused very serious problems at the HS football events that were held in Delaware Stadium.

Sorry if you call that 'racism'... I'd call it 'realism'.

[GSUISBACK]

Can anyone name a another state where state football schools have never played each other?

[Cap'n Cat]

Can anyone name a another state where state football schools have never played each other?



Wyoming has never played Wyoming State.

[Tribe4SF]

We had some people saying the same things before we played Grambling and Southern. And it was all a bunch of crap, nothing ever happened and we got along well with their fans.

Doc

Some Tribe fans worried before we played Hampton in '96. Hampton fans are awesome, and very friendly. The fears expressed about "crowd" problems are based in ignorance. The leadership of a university should be way past that.

Statements that portray DSU fans as a potential problem are highly insulting.

[dbackjon]

Wyoming has never played Wyoming State.

:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:

[Tribe4SF]

Apparently you missed or ignored my comment that it has NOTHING to do with DSU or their fans... but it's not an unreasonable concern that a DSU/UD game may attract some of the same non-football fan element that has caused very serious problems at the HS football events that were held in Delaware Stadium.

Sorry if you call that 'racism'... I'd call it 'realism'.

If it has nothing to do with DSU or their fans, why is it "realism" to be concerned? Who would be attracted that has caused serious problems at high school events?

[ChickenMan]

If it has nothing to do with DSU or their fans, why is it "realism" to be concerned? Who would be attracted that has caused serious problems at high school events?

Maybe some of the same individuals that don't normally attend Delaware HS games (there have been very few serious incidents at regualr season HS football games) but seem to view the higher profile HS football events as an opportunity to raise a little hell.

Would the problems become a reality... who knows... I certainly don't... but I do think that potential crowd problems has played a factor in UD's unwillinness to schedule DSU. Is it the major factor... no... but I believe it has been and remains a consideration by the UD administration.

As for my opinion... now that DSU seems to be righting their ship and putting a pretty decent product on the field... I'd love to see a UD/DSU series.

[eaglesrthe1]

Maybe some of the same individuals that don't normally attend Delaware HS games (there have been very few serious incidents at regualr season HS football games) but seemed to view the higher profile HS football events as an opportunity to raise a little hell.

Would the problems become a reality... who knows... I certainly don't... but I do think that potentail crowd problems has played a factor in UD's unwillinness to schedule DSU. Is it the major factor... no... but I believe it is and remains a consideration by the UD administration.

As for my opinion... now that DSU seems to be righting their ship and putting a pretty decent product on the field... I'd love to see a UD/DSU series.

Maybe this...maybe that. It's not realism, it's prejudice. An irrational fear.

[Tribe4SF]

Maybe this...maybe that. It's not realism, it's prejudice. An irrational fear.

Amen.

[RadMann]

The situation with UD not playing DSU is more parallel to WVU not wanting to play Marshall than anything else. On top of that, DSU generates no excitement in football and is a non-factor in the state in football. I would rathed UD play DSU than West chester but that is about it. I have no great desire to see such a game....

[McNeese72]

Can anyone name a another state where state football schools have never played each other?

We can't get a game with LSU even though the routinely import I-AA teams to play.

Doc

[ChickenMan]

Maybe this...maybe that. It's not realism, it's prejudice. An irrational fear.


I voiced the concern for a potential crowd problem as just one of the many excuses as to why UD has had no interest in scheduling DSU... however it's certainly NOT the only reason why the game hasn't been played.

[henfan]

I was born and raised a UD fan, I'm a UD grad, I go to as many games as I can, and this issue is a constant embarassment.

UD should play DSU ASAP. That's my view.

Another amen coming your way.

For the kneejerk reactionists, let me just say that DSU's Chuck Bell was NOT playing the race card here. He did NOT say that the UD was a racist institutiton. His observed that the basis for the series not having ever happened was grounded in racism- a vestige of days gone by. Two entirely different statements altogether.

Now, why the UD has refused to play DSU since the courts forced UD to segregate in 1950 is anyone's guess. Racism certainly isn't any less cogent an explanation than Edgar Johnson's "we don't have room on our schedule."

IMO, it's Bell's job now to make a real effort to schedule the game. Ask the UD when is the next open date on their schedule. If Johnson continues to stonewall, call him on it in a very public way.

As a UD alum and native Delawarean, this thing is an utter and total embarrassment. Not up there with more important issues in our state but still... UD and DSU remains the longest standing example of schools at the same NCAA level having never played one another in football. : smh :

[henfan]

The situation with UD not playing DSU is more parallel to WVU not wanting to play Marshall than anything else.

Sadly, the situation bears little resemblance to UD-DSU. Bad example.
WVU has voluntarily scheduled Marshall six times. The two teams have played twice since MU reclassified and have future games scheduled.

The Citadel and SCSU was probably the situation that most closely resembled UD-DSU. That's a thing of the past too.

[henfan]

We can't get a game with LSU even though the routinely import I-AA teams to play.

Doc

Imagine if McNeese State was created as a separate but equal institution for students who weren't permitted to attend LSU. Now imagine that both LSU and McNeese State played football in the same division for over 50 years. Beginning to get the picture?

[UD1993]

Maybe Bell is trying to guilt UD into playing DSU by using the race card?? It all seems like a publicity stunt or something to me.

UD MUST PLAY DSU. It's a shame it has not happened. Like others have said, why play Albany or Monmouth, etc. when DSU is willing to play UD. A home in home series would be good. A UD/DSU game in Dover would be 75% UD fans anyway. UD is afraid to lose to DSU and get egg on thier face. And if DSU wins, good for them. It won't be the end of the world. The 1st DSU/UD hoops game at the old fieldhouse produced DSU's only win against UD. Despite the loss, UD won 27 games and made the NCAA Tourney for the 1st time.

For the time being, it appears that the playoffs are the only way UD and DSU will meet and that's too bad. :twocents:

[Retro]

Here's what UD should do...

Set up a home and home with the 1st game at UD and return trip to DSU. That way if you embarass them they can't back out of your end of the home and home.. If UD does then play them at DSU, the likelyhood is that UD will have more fans at DSU does at their own place.. After that, there won't be anymore crying about not playing each other..:thumbsup:

[ChickenMan]

Here's what UD should do...

Set up a home and home with the 1st game at UD and return trip to DSU.

I don't have a problem with a UD/DSU series replacing the UD/West Chester game... but like the WCU series... ONLY if ALL the games are played at UD.

[HIU 93]

Maybe some of the same individuals that don't normally attend Delaware HS games (there have been very few serious incidents at regualr season HS football games) but seem to view the higher profile HS football events as an opportunity to raise a little hell.

Would the problems become a reality... who knows... I certainly don't... but I do think that potential crowd problems has played a factor in UD's unwillinness to schedule DSU. Is it the major factor... no... but I believe it has been and remains a consideration by the UD administration.

As for my opinion... now that DSU seems to be righting their ship and putting a pretty decent product on the field... I'd love to see a UD/DSU series.

If it has nothing to with DSU or their fans, why would UD not fear their crowd against Holy Cross or Hofstra or any other team they may play? Why are their only perceived problems with DSU fans?

[Punchykky]

This game should happen. If DSU can get UMASS to come to Dover for a game, and UMASS is in the same conference with UD, then UD needs to step it up. Please tell me that UD's not scared!?!?! Come on UD, make it happen!!!!!!!

[LacesOut]

CM, why wouldn't you want to play in Dover?

[dbackjon]

If it has nothing to with DSU or their fans, why would UD not fear their crowd against Holy Cross or Hofstra or any other team they may play? Why are their only perceived problems with DSU fans?

:hurray: :hurray:

[ChickenMan]

If it has nothing to with DSU or their fans, why would UD not fear their crowd against Holy Cross or Hofstra or any other team they may play? Why are their only perceived problems with DSU fans?

I'll repeat... the potential problems wouldn't be caused by DSU fans... but by maybe some of the same individuals that don't normally attend Delaware HS games (there have been very few serious incidents at regualr season HS football games) but seem to view the higher profile HS football events as an opportunity to raise a little hell. It doesn't take a great leap of logic to be concerned that those same individuals might view an even HIGHER profile UD/DSU game in the same manner.

[ChickenMan]

CM, why wouldn't you want to play in Dover?

DSU stadium is far too small to accommodate the state wide fan interest that such a game would generate. Many more fans... both Hens and Hornets... who would be shut out for tickets at DSU... would be able to attend the game in Newark

[gophoenix]

Who cares if it is about race or not. Some HBCU schools use race as a reason to not play other schools because fans don't care about them as much (ie A&T/Central/WSSU with App, Elon, Western)

[pksundevil]

It doesn't take a great leap of logic to be concerned that those same individuals might view an even HIGHER profile UD/DSU game in the same manner.

Please explain that logic to me. Why would those same individuals, who can get into HS games for a much lower price, choose the UD game? If they're simply looking for high-profile events, why not UD-Hofstra, which is Homecoming this year? Why not UD-Lehigh last year? Why not UD-JMU last year? Those are much higher profile events than a high school all-star game. Why do you think they're going to have an easy time causing trouble in a much larger crowd of 22,000 (of which 15,000 or so is allocated to season tickets and students, and thus a huge part of the crowd is non-volatile to start with) than among the 10-12,000 at the all-star games? Why do you think they're going to be willing to pay the $10 for parking, the $20 for the ticket, etc just to cause trouble?

I think it does take a great leap of logic.

[LacesOut]

DSU stadium is far too small to accommodate the state wide fan interest that such a game would generate. Many more fans... both Hens and Hornets... who would be shut out for tickets at DSU... would be able to attend the game in Newark


Ahhhh, a most excellent observation. DSU stadium is quite small. Looks no bigger than Newark High's stadium.

[ChickenMan]

Please explain that logic to me. Why would those same individuals, who can get into HS games for a much lower price, choose the UD game? If they're simply looking for high-profile events, why not UD-Hofstra, which is Homecoming this year? Why not UD-Lehigh last year? Why not UD-JMU last year? Those are much higher profile events than a high school all-star game. Why do you think they're going to have an easy time causing trouble in a much larger crowd of 22,000 (of which 15,000 or so is allocated to season tickets and students, and thus a huge part of the crowd is non-volatile to start with) than among the 10-12,000 at the all-star games? Why do you think they're going to be willing to pay the $10 for parking, the $20 for the ticket, etc just to cause trouble?

I think it does take a great leap of logic.

Agree... you make a valid point relative to costs (ticket & parking)... that may very well be enough to keep the thugs away.

Disagree... A UD/Lehigh.. Hofstra or JMU game would hardly attract the potential local interest as would a UD/DSU matchup.

Again.. I'm FOR a UD/DSU game and only posted the crowd comments as a potential UD concern... as UD has had some very negative experiences in the past.

[aceinthehole]

There is no good reason not to play the game. UD however, has the right to ask for a home-only serise at Newark, if they want. They have a bigger stadium and larger fan support.

When UConn was I-AA, they played both Central Connecticut and Southern Connecticut in football. In 4 of the 5 games played, the in-state rival was actually in a lower division (SCSU is D-II; CCSU reclassified from D-II to I-AA in 1993).

09/13/1986 - UConn 20, Central Conn. 9 @ Storrs
09/12/1987 - UConn 38, Southern Conn. 21 @ Storrs
10/29/1988 - UConn 45, Southern Conn. 0 @ Storrs
09/09/1989 - UConn 27, Central Conn. 9 @ Storrs
09/16/1995 - UConn 54, Central Conn. 9 @ Storrs

Not to mention 6 current UD peers from the A-10 have played Delaware State, as well as former member UConn. And as someone else pointed out, UMass actually played at DSU in 2004.

UD should drop the West Chester game and invite the Hornets instead. IMO - the UD-DSU game should be played!

[Ivytalk]

DSU stadium is far too small to accommodate the state wide fan interest that such a game would generate. Many more fans... both Hens and Hornets... who would be shut out for tickets at DSU... would be able to attend the game in Newark

How about this: Schedule the home-and-home. First one at UD, second at DSU, which has a crappy bandbox for a stadium. The irate UD fans who can't get into the DSU park in year #2 go crazy and trash the place. The DSU AD says we'll never play those Blue Hens again. Problem solved!:D

[ChickenMan]

How about this: Schedule the home-and home. First one at UD, second at DSU, which has a crappy bandbox for a stadium. The irate UD fans who can't get into the DSU park in year #2 go crazy and trash the place. The DSU AD says we'll never play those Blue Hens again. Problem solved!:D

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[Panther88]

Who cares if it is about race or not. Some HBCU schools use race as a reason to not play other schools because fans don't care about them as much (ie A&T/Central/WSSU with App, Elon, Western)

No argument here to a certain extent phoenix. However, (speaking for self) my non-desire to play the TxSts/SHSUs stems from lack of interest in them coupled w/ a longer history of kinship to other schools rather than race. Hope that came out right.

That comment earlier about "crowd concerns" should REALLY be looked @ by the players of the opposition. That "the few of them, they can perform on the field of play and on our campuses but let's NOT socialize w/ them when it's a majority of them around" is a great concern to me. Too bad the players of color are too dumb to realize what alumni are around them and what school of thought they're representing. xidiotx Dumb jocks. Very dumb. xidiotx

[RadMann]

My comment comparing the situation to WVU-Marshall was in the context of WVU not wanting to play Marshall for many decades because WVU was the big-wig program in the state and they did not want to give upstart Marshall any publicity or bragging rights in-state. In that context, the Marshall-WVU analogy sums up the UD-DSU history very accurately...

[PMB4Life]

Mr. Libertarian approaches the mike with awed silence prevailing:

"People... Delaware has a right not to play Delaware State. It's their decision. If Delaware State is pissed off because of it, that is also their choice. If DSU also wants to play race cards, that is also their choice. If Delaware fans want to get mad about DSU playing the race card, that's their choice. See where I'm going with this?"

He then stepped down and let chaos continue.

[henfan]

Some HBCU schools use race as a reason to not play other schools because fans don't care about them as much (ie A&T/Central/WSSU with App, Elon, Western)

Not sure what the heck you're talking about. The only team on your list with any I-AA history (NC A&T) has played App State 5 times, Elon 7 times and WCU 4 times.

This discussion concerns schools from the same state in the same division who have never scheduled one another.

[griz37]

Other than getting all these racist ideas out of the way, I really don't see what Delaware has to gain by playing DSU. The Hens sell out all of their games anyway, so the extra crowd is no big deal. They won't get anymore respect from beating the Hornets, then they would get from beating say Columbia. But they do have a lot to lose. Delaware is THE program in the state right now, a loss to DSU & some of superiority goes out the window. Who knows maybe the Hens are scared to play DSU. But I don't blame them.

[Tribe4SF]

That comment earlier about "crowd concerns" should REALLY be looked @ by the players of the opposition. That "the few of them, they can perform on the field of play and on our campuses but let's NOT socialize w/ them when it's a majority of them around" is a great concern to me. Too bad the players of color are too dumb to realize what alumni are around them and what school of thought they're representing. xidiotx Dumb jocks. Very dumb. xidiotx

When this was discussed on the CAAZone, I suggested the posters share their concern about "crowd problems" with the African American players at UD and see what kind of reaction they got. I'll suggest that ChickenMan do the same with this thread and get back to us.

[GannonFan]

Just throwing my two cents in here - first of all, while I'm a UD alum, I don't live in the state so any intra-state rivalry thing holds no interest to me whatsoever. In addition, there are more out-of state students at Delaware than in-state so while it is the more prestigious state institution, it is hardly beholden to the state itself. Heck, while they take some state money the school is technically a quasi-private school so what's good for the state isn't always the top priority.

I think another poster, a Lehigh guy nonetheless, summed it up entirely - Delaware has nothing to gain playing this game except to quell threads like these on message boards and an article in the paper every year, and frankly that isn't a big burden to deal with. The fact is that Delaware is clearly the pre-eminent football team in the state and that DSU is far inferior to UD. Of course UD would want to keep it this way. Another poster said that UD doesn't even recruit in-state kids so why would that matter - fact is, UD has 14 Delaware high school kids on their roster right now so that's more than 10% of the team and right now, UD gets the pick of the litter of in-state talent. Also keep in mind that Delaware is hardly a deep pool of football talent so taking 14 of the top kids in the state is a big deal. Why is it in UD's interest to help grow the DSU football program? DSU officials already opined in an article earlier in the year that while they would just want one game right now, they would certainly see a future perpetual series with UD being one where games would be played in Dover at some regular interval. Frankly, why would UD want that? They are already able to put together 7 game home schedules routinely because they are able to have teams come to Newark with no return game required - why would they drop that so that they could give DSU a game every so often? And UD doesn't need DSU to sell tickets to fill the Tub - UD's the only school in I-AA to average more than 20k to home games over the past 7 years and that's not about to be broken anytime soon - the place sells out regardless of who we're playing and regardless of how Delaware's doing during the year (two games were played last year at home after UD was eliminated from the playoffs and was clearly going to be .500 - the place still sold out for both anyway).

While there may have been racist reasons way back when for why these teams don't play, the bigger reason all along and certainly today is that UD doesn't want to do anything to make DSU a better football program at the expense of UD. Whether that is a very realistic notion of what would happen should they play or not, it's not something that UD has wanted to test out to find out. When it comes down to it, it's elitism and self-interest that keeps UD from playing DSU.

As for me, as long as the football being played is good to watch and UD wins more than they lose, I'm happy. Play DSU, don't play them, I really don't care - but I want all the games in Newark! ;) (longer drive to Dover for me)

[henfan]

Other than getting all these racist ideas out of the way, I really don't see what Delaware has to gain by playing DSU. The Hens sell out all of their games anyway, so the extra crowd is no big deal. They won't get anymore respect from beating the Hornets, then they would get from beating say Columbia. But they do have a lot to lose. Delaware is THE program in the state right now, a loss to DSU & some of superiority goes out the window. Who knows maybe the Hens are scared to play DSU. But I don't blame them.

Using that logic, UD doesn't gain anything by playing any particular team in Newark. They sell out no matter what. Just schedule Missoula Montessouri School of the Mines A&T. Doesn't matter. Automatic sellout.

What does UD have to lose by playing a game against DSU? You think UD recruiting and 110 years of football tradition is going to go down the tubes if they should happen to lose a game to DSU? You must be freaking kidding me?! Columbia, now that's rich. This talk of one game somehow validating the DSU football program is just as ridiculous.

The two teams should play (or at least not purposely avoid each other) because that's what teams in the same subdivision in the the same state do everwhere else in the country. It's just common sense.

[LacesOut]

Other than getting all these racist ideas out of the way, I really don't see what Delaware has to gain by playing DSU. The Hens sell out all of their games anyway, so the extra crowd is no big deal. They won't get anymore respect from beating the Hornets, then they would get from beating say Columbia. But they do have a lot to lose. Delaware is THE program in the state right now, a loss to DSU & some of superiority goes out the window. Who knows maybe the Hens are scared to play DSU. But I don't blame them.


Nothing to gain for UD by playing West Chester, Albany, Monmouth, or Holy Cross either. Especially West Chester. That matchup needs to be launched into the sun. Pronto.

[ChickenMan]

When this was discussed on the CAAZone, I suggested the posters share their concern about "crowd problems" with the African American players at UD and see what kind of reaction they got. I'll suggest that ChickenMan do the same with this thread and get back to us.

I doubt that I'll be having any conversations with any UD players... black or white... sorry if I upset you by expressing such a non PC concern... ;)

[griz37]

Nothing to gain for UD by playing West Chester, Albany, Monmouth, or Holy Cross either. Especially West Chester. That matchup needs to be launched into the sun. Pronto.

Nothing to gain, but nothing to lose either. Look back to 2002 when MSU started their return top level I-AA play. It could be argued that the one game that got the momentum rolling in Bozo was the Cats 10-7 win over the Griz. It got people excited about MSU football again, the coaches could say look the Griz don't dominate us like they used to. Now the gap has closed between the Griz & MSU has closed & the Cats are on the verge of pulling even. I just think Delaware has way more to lose then they do to gain by playing DSU. But what do I know, i am 3000 miles away.

[henfan]

I just think Delaware has way more to lose then they do to gain by playing DSU.

Hogwash. Delaware has nothing to gain and nothing to lose by playing any team in I-AA.

Playing any one team isn't going to help or harm UD's chances of being the best team it can be. As is always the case with every team, they'll fail and succeed on their own.

[Tribe4SF]

I doubt that I'll be having any conversations with any UD players... black or white... sorry if I upset you by expressing such a non PC concern... ;)

This isn't a PC issue, it's a human issue. You start out by saying that the "crowd problem" is a MAJOR factor in UD's unwillingness to schedule DSU. Now you've retreated to "it's just one of many reasons".

Racism will never be just a PC thing. It's morally reprehensible. You apparently don't see that inferring that Black's who want to cause trouble will come to a UD/DSU matchup is as about as rascist as it gets.

Trouble at H.S. games involving Blacks - DSU is an HBCU - Trouble at UD/DSU game.

The only connection in that illogical sequence is racism.

[Cap'n Cat]

Moderators,
Please throttle this thread.

[Tribe4SF]

Moderators,
Please throttle this thread.


Cap'n wants to squash discussion?:eek:

I knew you were a Republican!!!:D

[OL FU]

If I was UD, I wouldn't play DSU either. Why should I? I've got the market for college football in Delaware cornered. Why would I want to assist a competitor. I know this sounds very cut-throat, but that is clearly part of the reason. The other reasons are several. UD can get good OOC games when it wants (ie Lehigh, GSU, Navy, etc.) - these are teams UD fans want to see as opponents. DSU is historically a poor program with no history with UD. Why should UD want to START history here? If they play DSU, that potentially helps DSU's and hurts UD's in-state recruiting - maybe it's not a huge deal, but it's not beneficial at the margin. I'm sure there might be other reasons, but I don't see 'racism' as a prevalent one.

I can't believe I just defended UD, but I've got to call it like I see it. BTW, UD and Lehigh really do need to get back on each other's schedules.

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Personally, I don't think it is the right reason not to play, but it is probably the reason.

and what if DSU won

[GannonFan]

Using that logic, UD doesn't gain anything by playing any particular team in Newark. They sell out no matter what. Just schedule Missoula Montessouri School of the Mines A&T. Doesn't matter. Automatic sellout.

What does UD have to lose by playing a game against DSU? You think UD recruiting and 110 years of football tradition is going to go down the tubes if they should happen to lose a game to DSU? You must be freaking kidding me?! Columbia, now that's rich. This talk of one game somehow validating the DSU football program is just as ridiculous.

The two teams should play (or at least not purposely avoid each other) because that's what teams in the same subdivision in the the same state do everwhere else in the country. It's just common sense.


Hogwash. Delaware has nothing to gain and nothing to lose by playing any team in I-AA.

Playing any one team isn't going to help or harm UD's chances of being the best team it can be. As is always the case with every team, they'll fail and succeed on their own.

We've had this discussion over and over again on many boards and I still don't understand why you think that just playing the game one time and one time only will finally put the issue to bed and it will never be brought up again. The same reasons and same forces that you say should bring the game about for one time will still be there when that game is over and there'll be a push for a second game, a third game, etc, etc. To think you can play once and then duck another game forever without the same talk that's going around now is idealistic at best. And someday, somehow, DSU will get a home game out of this - whether it is in their smaller stadium now or in a newly built stadium with increased capacity, it will never be an all-Newark series. To say that these are things that UD is not considering when they pass on playing DSU is being a little too fancy-free with the reasoning.

And once the game turns into an annual rivalry, and once DSU does improve and does get better, to think that it couldn't negatively impact UD's recruiting not only in the state but in the surrounding areas is again so idealistic that it's naive. Sure UD doesn't draw it's whole team from the state of Delaware, but a good 10% of the team is from there. As I said, the talent pool in Delaware HS football is on the shallow end so 14 good players is a substantial amount. If DSU was a more viable option for them as a quality football school how could that not have the potential to be a negative for UD?

Like I said, play them or don't play them, I'll be fine which ever way they go. But playing them will never be a one and done affair so let's not kid ourselves about just taking it one at a time. And a better, stronger DSU football program could very well negatively impact UD. These may or may not be things that UD considers when they turn a deaf ear to DSU, but I think there are things that could be considered. Like I said, I wouldn't doubt that elitism and self-interest rule the day when they shun DSU.

[GannonFan]

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:
I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Personally, I don't think it is the right reason not to play, but it is probably the reason.

and what if DSU won

Yup, that was a pretty good outsiders view of what could be a very valid reason why they don't play. Agree with it or not, but it's certainly a very possible reason why they don't play.

[MR. CHICKEN]

LADS:

DELAWARE CAN CHOOSE WHOMEVERAH.....FO' OOC GAMES....AS WELL...AS.. ANY UNIVERSITY OUT DERE!

ARE DUH BLUEHENS SCARED UH DUH HORNETS?....VERAH FEW O' DERE SQWADS....WOULDAH SCARED PRARIE VIEW.......NOT ALONE DELAWARE!.....
IFIN' BELL WANTS UH GAME SO BADLY......MAKE DUH PLAY-OFFS!....
DELAWARE STATE HAS ISSUES......PLAY IN DUH MEAC....KNOWN FO' QUESTIONABLE SITUATIONS...LIKE FORFEITS...ILLEGAL PLAYERS....RESCINDED CHAMPIONSHIPS........CRAZY IDEARAHS...LIKE FLA A&M.......GOIN' D-I.......LIKE DELAWARE STATE GOIN' D-I.......LIKE STATE'S TOTAL ATTENDANCE.......FO' 6 HOMEYS.......17000......AN' UH GRAD RATE...LOWER.....DAN........MOST DEFENSIVE TACKLE.....JERSEY NUMBERS.....etc.!

HOW DELAWARE STATE EVEN RECRUITS....WHIFF SAD FACILITY'S IS BEYOND ......DUH REALM O' DIS BIRDS......SCOPE!....
WHEN WAS DUH LAST TIME...AGS RALPH......DID UH WORFF-WHILE SEGMENT........ON DOVER?.......
DEL. STATE'S BEEN DISSED...BY DUH ENTIRE I-AA COMMUNE......BUT....U OF D.......ARE RACISTS!.....
UD...EMBRACES DUH BLACK ATHLETE...(LAST AH CHECKED...OMAR CUFF......BLACK!)......IN ALL SPORTS....IN ALL ENDEAVORS.......IT'S AN INSTITUTION O' HIGHER LEARNIN'.......HEY IFIN' YA CAN'T CUT DUH MUSTARD.........MAH DAUGHTER DIDN'T GET IN....AN' SHE CUDDAH ATTENDED FREE....AS HENRIETTA IS UH 27 YEAR VET.....BUT WE AIN'T SCREAMIN' PREDJUDICE.......NO GRADES...NO UD!

MAYBEAH DUH AGS COMMUNITY...SHOULD WORRY 'BOUT GETTIN' CHEATED OUTTA APPX. 14-15 PLAYS UH GAME...AS DUH CLOCK STARTS ON CHANGE O' POSSESSION.......MAYBEAH OURAH TICKET PRICES SHOULD BE ADJUSTED..TA REFLECT.......DELAWARE FANS AIN'T WORRYIN' DAT......FORT LEWIS.........IS DUH GIMME UH CHOICE.....IN DUH BIG FLUFFY.....WHY YA'LL WORRYIN'...'BOUT WEST CHESTER...(CURRENTLY COACHED BY UH DELAWARE FORMER QB...BILL ZWANN)......YA'LL GOTS YER CUPCAKES..........JES' ASK GATEWAY LAD...'BOUT LICKIN' DUH ICIN' OFF DRAKE!

AH GOT UH MIGRANE..........AN' DUH WARM BEER AH PUT IN DUH FREEZER.........SHOULD BE UH COORS SLURPEE BAH NOW.......HENRIETTA...WHERE DUH STRAWS?..........:deadhorse:....BRAWK!

[McNeese72]

Imagine if McNeese State was created as a separate but equal institution for students who weren't permitted to attend LSU. Now imagine that both LSU and McNeese State played football in the same division for over 50 years. Beginning to get the picture?

Hey, I know it is a totally different situatiion. My post was in response to the question "were there any states where state football universities didn't play each other". LSU refuses to play in state Div I-AA's while playing out of state Div I-AA's.

Doc

[AZGrizFan]

LADS:

DELAWARE CAN CHOOSE WHOMEVERAH.....FO' OOC GAMES AS ANY UNIVERSITY OUT DERE!

ARE DUH BLUEHENS SCARED UH DUH HORNETS?....VERAH FEW O' DERE SQWADS....WOULDAH SCARED PRARIE VIEW.......NOT ALONE DELAWARE!.....
IFIN' BELL WANTS UH GAME SO BADLY......MAKE DUH PLAY-OFFS!....
DELAWARE STATE HAS ISSUES......PLAY IN DUH MEAC....KNOWN FO' QUESTIONABLE SITUATIONS...LIKE FORFEITS...ILLEGAL PLAYERS....RESCINDED CHAMPIONSHIPS........CRAZY IDEARAHS...LIKE FLA A&M.......GOIN' D-I.......LIKE DELAWARE STATE GOIN' D-I.......LIKE STATE'S TOTAL ATTENDANCE.......FO' 6 HOMEYS.......17000......AN' UH GRAD RATE...LOWER.....DAN........MOST DEFENSIVE TACKLE.....JERSEY NUMBERS.....etc.!

HOW DELAWARE STATE EVEN RECRUITS....WHIFF SAD FACILITY'S IS BEYOND ......DUH REALM O' DIS BIRDS......SCOPE!....
WHEN WAS DUH LAST TIME...AGS RALPH......DID UH WORFF-WHILE SEGMENT........ON DOVER?.......
DEL. STATE'S BEEN DISSED...BY DUH ENTIRE I-AA COMMUNE......BUT....U OF D.......ARE RACISTS!.....
UD...EMBRACES DUH BLACK ATHLETE...(LAST AH CHECKED...OMAR CUFF......BLACK!)......IN ALL SPORTS....IN ALL ENDEAVORS.......IT'S AN INSTITUTION O' HIGHER LEARNIN'.......HEY IFIN' YA CAN'T CUT DUH MUSTARD.........MAH DAUGHTER DIDN'T GET IN....AN' SHE CUDDAH ATTENDED FREE....AS HENRIETTA IS UH 27 YEAR VET.....BUT WE AIN'T SCREAMIN' PREDJUDICE.......NO GRADES...NO UD!

MAYBEAH DUH AGS COMMUNITY...SHOULD WORRY 'BOUT GETTIN' CHEATED OUTTA APPX. 14-15 PLAYS UH GAME...AS DUH CLOCK STARTS ON CHANGE O' POSSESSION.......MAYBEAH OURAH TICKET PRICES SHOULD BE ADJUSTED..TA REFLECT.......DELAWARE FANS AIN'T WORRYIN' DAT......FORT LEWIS.........IS DUH GIMME UH CHOICE.....IN DUH BIG FLUFFY.....WHY YA'LL WORRYIN'...'BOUT WEST CHESTER...(CURRENTLY COACHED BY UH DELAWARE FORMER QB...BILL ZWANN)......YA'LL GOTS YER CUPCAKES..........JES' ASK GATEWAY LAD...'BOUT LICKIN' DUH ICIN' OFF DRAKE!

AH GOT UH MIGRANE..........AN' DUH WARM BEER AH PUT IN DUH FREEZER.........SHOULD BE UH COORS SLURPEE BAH NOW.......HENRIETTA...WHERE DUH STRAWS?..........:deadhorse:....BRAWK!

Absolute classic. Impossible to read and follow, but an absolute classic, nonetheless. :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[BayouColonel]

Here is something to think about.
Southern seldom plays traditionally white schools (HWCU's) anymore. In fact lately they have always tried to skirt around it if at all possible (unless they think they can win). They backed out on return trips to Nicholls and Mcneese in the last 5 or so years and haven't played a HWCU in a while. What would be the fallout of any HWCU AD acussing them of being racist. I'm not defending UD's decision one way or the other (in fact I think they should play) but I am not comdenming them for it either. Just like I wouldn't condemn Southern for not playing the Mcneese, Nicholls, Northwestern St or SELA's. (Except for the fact that we gave them a home game and they did not return our home game) Bottom line is they have their reasons and DSU doesn't have to like it but they should still just move on.

[A-10 Den]

If this was racism, then why does Delaware play DSU in all the other sports, including basketball, baseball, etc. I guess the AD must take off his racism hat when he schedules those sports and puts it back on when he schedules football. While I am one of those who would like to see the game scheduled, racism has NOTHING to do with it.

The general opinion from those in the know has the reason more like, Delaware has nothing to gain and everything to lose by scheduling it. If they beat them, then it was expected, if they lose, then they take a big hit, especially in the polls. Many people say they should schedule it because it would be good for the State and good for both schools, creating a big following. Truth is, Delaware doesn't need it - they sell out every game anyway, but DSU does need the game.

There was some discussion in the last few weeks that the DSU AD was under fire by the DSU Alumni because he is white. It is very interesting timing that he comes out with this comment right on the heels of that stuff. We need to closely examine his motives here. If there was any chance of this happening soon, he ruined it now. No way Delaware can schedule this anytime soon, or it would now make them look guilty.

The DSU AD should spend more time getting the quality of his program up rather than flapping his gums about this stuff. These kind of unfounded accusations are not good for the sport and should never even be given any press at all. It is disturbing to me that the Wilmington New Journal would even print this crap.

[89Hen]

Good post, but UD actually draws very few in-state players.
FWIW, UD has almost twice as many players from DE than DSU does.

[89Hen]

I think if you surveyed the 22,000 that will be at Delaware Stadium this week, you'd find overwhelming support for the concept. You'd find even more support if you proposed that DSU would replace Albany, or Holy Cross, or West Chester, or Monmouth (what a joke) on the schedule.
And I think you're incorrect. There is no way to prove this. Most of the people who are for this game are VERY vocal, but IMO the masses in Delaware Stadium couldn't care less about it. Now if you threw in the caviat that the game replace WCUPA, you'd have a better case, however if you had ANY team replace WCUPA you'd probably get the same response.

[89Hen]

DSU generates no excitement in football and is a non-factor in the state in football. I would rathed UD play DSU than West chester but that is about it. I have no great desire to see such a game....
:nod: But it's amazing how many people outside of Delaware seem to think they have a clue about DSU and fans in DE. :rolleyes:

[89Hen]

A home in home series would be good. A UD/DSU game in Dover would be 75% UD fans anyway.
:confused: 75% of 6800? :rolleyes:

[89Hen]

If DSU can get UMASS to come to Dover for a game, and UMASS is in the same conference with UD, then UD needs to step it up.
:confused: What does that have to do with anything? UD = 22,177 for home games, DSU = 2,864. The game cannot be played anywhere but UD if it were to be played.

[PantherMan]

"I'm convinced the basis is racism," said Bell, the first white athletic director in DSU history. "UD is a white school and DSU is a historically black school, and it's one of those things left over from the days of separate restrooms and separate seating areas."

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060907/SPORTS08/309070001/1002/SPORTS

Coulda fooled me when we played at Delaware in the playoffs a few years ago...:rolleyes:

[BgJag]

Here is something to think about.
Southern seldom plays traditionally white schools (HWCU's) anymore. In fact lately they have always tried to skirt around it if at all possible (unless they think they can win). They backed out on return trips to Nicholls and Mcneese in the last 5 or so years and haven't played a HWCU in a while. What would be the fallout of any HWCU AD acussing them of being racist. I'm not defending UD's decision one way or the other (in fact I think they should play) but I am not comdenming them for it either. Just like I wouldn't condemn Southern for not playing the Mcneese, Nicholls, Northwestern St or SELA's. (Except for the fact that we gave them a home game and they did not return our home game) Bottom line is they have their reasons and DSU doesn't have to like it but they should still just move on.

SOUTHERN has played ever school in their division in state. We had an approx twenty year series with Nicholls begining in 1980 or 81, a 10 years series with NWST and played McNeese once and played SELA before they stopped playing football in 83?. We've played two SLC teams the same year about 8 times. Now you name another school with a history like ours of playing OOC in state team. This discussion is about two teams in state in the same division and playoff conferences. I waiting on the D-IAA/CS advocates to tune in, haven't heard from some of them. :read:

[PantherMan]

The article addresses that. 5.6% Black at UD...20.4% in the state. You won't find reasoning or answers to this in racial statistics. You only find them in the lingering attitudes of separation. 89 Hen lays down the prevailing perspective...that DSU is inferior.

DUMB statistic. Why don't you now post the % of blacks at DSU as compared to the total population of blacks in Delaware...:rolleyes: :nonono2:

[PantherMan]

If this was racism, then why does Delaware play DSU in all the other sports, including basketball, baseball, etc. I guess the AD must take off his racism hat when he schedules those sports and puts it back on when he schedules football. While I am one of those who would like to see the game scheduled, racism has NOTHING to do with it.

The general opinion from those in the know has the reason more like, Delaware has nothing to gain and everything to lose by scheduling it. If they beat them, then it was expected, if they lose, then they take a big hit, especially in the polls. Many people say they should schedule it because it would be good for the State and good for both schools, creating a big following. Truth is, Delaware doesn't need it - they sell out every game anyway, but DSU does need the game.

There was some discussion in the last few weeks that the DSU AD was under fire by the DSU Alumni because he is white. It is very interesting timing that he comes out with this comment right on the heels of that stuff. We need to closely examine his motives here. If there was any chance of this happening soon, he ruined it now. No way Delaware can schedule this anytime soon, or it would now make them look guilty.

The DSU AD should spend more time getting the quality of his program up rather than flapping his gums about this stuff. These kind of unfounded accusations are not good for the sport and should never even be given any press at all. It is disturbing to me that the Wilmington New Journal would even print this crap.

:thumbsup: Don't go making TOO much sense now...xlolx

[MR. CHICKEN]

This game should happen. If DSU can get UMASS to come to Dover for a game, and UMASS is in the same conference with UD, then UD needs to step it up. Please tell me that UD's not scared!?!?! Come on UD, make it happen!!!!!!!

PUNCHY......2004......UMA$$ INVADES DOVER......FINAL SCORE.....51-0....MOST SURPRISIN' STAT?........UMA$$ HAD 20 PENALTIES...AN' RANG UP -154 NO-FAIR YARDS!

PUNCHY.....2004.......DELAWARE.....CORNERS AMHEST.....DUH RESULT O' DAT TEA PARTY?.....DELAWARE 21-7........PILGRIMS FOLDED...LIKE UH CHEAP WAL-MART.....PUP-TENT!

OKAY......DON'T THINK DELAWARE IS SCARED!.........: smh :.......BRAWK!

[IaaScribe]

I come to this site just to read Mr. Chicken's posts. :D

[ChickenMan]

Trouble at H.S. games involving Blacks - DSU is an HBCU - Trouble at UD/DSU game.

The only connection in that illogical sequence is racism.

You... like the DSU AD... seem to be far too willing to play the racism card... as the Cap'n wisely posted... this discussion needs to be terminated.

[MR. CHICKEN]

THE END........."BA-DABBA-DABBA-DABBA......THAT'S ALL FOLKS"!

[mainejeff]

I like ice cream.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I like ice cream.

DEN GET SOME AT DUH "ICE PALACE"....SATURDAY.......................AWK!

UH PENGUIN.......TAKES HIS CAR TA DUH SHOP.......MECHANIC...SAYS...."IT'LL TAKE SOME TIME TA RUN DUH DIAGNOSTIC".....PENGUIN......SAYS..."AH'M GOIN' FO' ICE CREAM....ACROSS DUH STREET"........PENGUIN RETURNS......WHIFF ICE CREAM DROPPIN'S ON HIS SHOE..........MECHANIC SAYS...."YA BLEW UH SEAL".........PENGUIN SAYS..."NAW....DAT'S JES' ICE CREAM"!xlolx :nod: xlolx

[MiloCat]

DEN GET SOME AT DUH "ICE PALACE"....SATURDAY.......................AWK!

UH PENGUIN.......TAKES HIS CAR TA DUH SHOP.......MECHANIC...SAYS...."IT'LL TAKE SOME TIME TA RUN DUH DIAGNOSTIC".....PENGUIN......SAYS..."AH'M GOIN' FO' ICE CREAM....ACROSS DUH STREET"........PENGUIN RETURNS......WHIFF ICE CREAM DROPPIN'S ON HIS SHOE..........MECHANIC SAYS...."YA BLEW UH SEAL".........PENGUIN SAYS..."NAW....DAT'S JES' ICE CREAM"!xlolx :nod: xlolx
xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Tribe4SF]

You... like the DSU AD... seem to be far too willing to play the racism card... as the Cap'n wisely posted... this discussion needs to be terminated.

When it's jumping off the page, someone needs to play it.

The DSU AD will now be villified by many. It's already started on here with the "he's under fire because he's white" BS.

At least maybe people will shut up about the "possible crowd problems" now. That's the worst crock of s**t I've ever heard, and you posted it as a MAJOR FACTOR in UD's unwillingness to play DSU. That shoe definitely fit.

If you and the Cap'n want to terminate discussion, then bow out. You posted outrageous crap, and when someone points at it, you want the discussion ended. Sorry.

[Tribe4SF]

DUMB statistic. Why don't you now post the % of blacks at DSU as compared to the total population of blacks in Delaware...:rolleyes: :nonono2:

Dumb is not reading the post that I was responding to, and then ignoring the thrust of my post, which was that statistics have nothing to do with the issue.

[Tribe4SF]

If this was racism, then why does Delaware play DSU in all the other sports, including basketball, baseball, etc. I guess the AD must take off his racism hat when he schedules those sports and puts it back on when he schedules football. While I am one of those who would like to see the game scheduled, racism has NOTHING to do with it.

The general opinion from those in the know has the reason more like, Delaware has nothing to gain and everything to lose by scheduling it. If they beat them, then it was expected, if they lose, then they take a big hit, especially in the polls. Many people say they should schedule it because it would be good for the State and good for both schools, creating a big following. Truth is, Delaware doesn't need it - they sell out every game anyway, but DSU does need the game.

There was some discussion in the last few weeks that the DSU AD was under fire by the DSU Alumni because he is white. It is very interesting timing that he comes out with this comment right on the heels of that stuff. We need to closely examine his motives here. If there was any chance of this happening soon, he ruined it now. No way Delaware can schedule this anytime soon, or it would now make them look guilty.

The DSU AD should spend more time getting the quality of his program up rather than flapping his gums about this stuff. These kind of unfounded accusations are not good for the sport and should never even be given any press at all. It is disturbing to me that the Wilmington New Journal would even print this crap.

Got a link on that?

[RadMann]

This has nothing to do with race and the DSU AD should be fired for saying so. That is a completely inflammatory and inaccurate statement on his part. The fact is that DSU is off the football radar screen and is not an attractive opponent for UD. They have no fan base and there is no interest in a game from their side except for a few in their admin who want to use the issue for political points and one columnist at a local Delaware newspaper.

[Tribe4SF]

A number of your own fans on here disagree with you.

[MR. CHICKEN]

DELAWARE STATE..IS TRYIN' TA ACHIEVE RESPECTABILITY...IN DERE SILLY QUEST.....TA GO I-A........WHAT BETTERAH WAY DAN......TA GOAD...DUH CHICKENS INTA UH GRUDGE MATCH.....AN' UH 50/50..CHANCE UH VICTORY...(ANYGIVENSATURDAY)...DUH LAUNCHIN' PAD FO' GREATER HORNET THINGS......IFIN' SESSOMS...THINKS HIS STOOGES...CAN PROD DUH DELAWARE FAMILY...INTA DIS CHALLENGE.......WELL??......AWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

DUH BOTTOM LINE.....WE'LL SKED OURAH OPPONENTS...AS WE SEE FIT.......JES' LIKE ANY OTHERAH INSTITUTION HAS..THE RIGHT TA DO!

[MR. CHICKEN]

HEY CHUCK.......MAKE DUH PLAY-OFFS...IFIN' YA'LL WANT IT DAT BAD!

[MR. CHICKEN]

AH DON'T KNOW MANY FANS WHO WORRY...'BOUT DIS TOPIC......BUT BRING IT HORNETS....MAKE DUH BIG SHOW......AN' AH'M SURE......THANKSGIVIN' WEEK-END....WILL BE UH RECORD SETTER...IN I-AA PLAY-OFF ATTENDANCE................AWK!

[Punchykky]

:confused: What does that have to do with anything? UD = 22,177 for home games, DSU = 2,864. The game cannot be played anywhere but UD if it were to be played.


My point was that UMASS played DSU period. I don't care WHERE they play, the point is that THEY PLAYED.
I'm sure DSU would love to play UD @ UD. Why not give them a chance? The only 2 D1-AA football playing schools in the whole state, and they're not playing each other?: smh : Give me a break!:nod:

[Punchykky]

PUNCHY......2004......UMA$$ INVADES DOVER......FINAL SCORE.....51-0....MOST SURPRISIN' STAT?........UMA$$ HAD 20 PENALTIES...AN' RANG UP -154 NO-FAIR YARDS!

PUNCHY.....2004.......DELAWARE.....CORNERS AMHEST.....DUH RESULT O' DAT TEA PARTY?.....DELAWARE 21-7........PILGRIMS FOLDED...LIKE UH CHEAP WAL-MART.....PUP-TENT!

OKAY......DON'T THINK DELAWARE IS SCARED!.........: smh :.......BRAWK!

Uh-huh,,,you can squawk whatever you want. This game should happen.:nod:
I mean, for crying out loud, UD is playing D2 West Chester!xlolx You know good and darn well UD will drag West Chester all up and down the field!xlolx If you can do the same to DSU, at least DSU will be a D1-AA team to beat as opposed to a D2 team!
I don't know, though,,,,DSU is up and coming. You certain that UD isn't skurred?:D

[PantherMan]

Dumb is not reading the post that I was responding to, and then ignoring the thrust of my post, which was that statistics have nothing to do with the issue.

NO, dumb is you not catching what my post was really getting at. You "proved" that the other poster's theory was off, but you neglected the fact that most Universities are not representative of the overall population. Seeing as there are 2 'larger' universities in Delaware, and one is a "Black School", it makes perfect sense that many blacks choose said school over an "open" school. This would be the true reason why Delaware has such a low percentage of black students...

[Tribe4SF]

NO, dumb is you not catching what my post was really getting at. You "proved" that the other poster's theory was off, but you neglected the fact that most Universities are not representative of the overall population. Seeing as there are 2 'larger' universities in Delaware, and one is a "Black School", it makes perfect sense that many blacks choose said school over an "open" school. This would be the true reason why Delaware has such a low percentage of black students...

I didn't neglect anything. Those are your points, not mine. My point was that statistics have nothing to do with the issue, which is what the other poster was inferring, albeit inaccurately. You wanted to make the point, and you call me dumb for not making it for you?:rolleyes:

[texcap]

And once the game turns into an annual rivalry, and once DSU does improve and does get better, to think that it couldn't negatively impact UD's recruiting not only in the state but in the surrounding areas is again so idealistic that it's naive. Sure UD doesn't draw it's whole team from the state of Delaware, but a good 10% of the team is from there. As I said, the talent pool in Delaware HS football is on the shallow end so 14 good players is a substantial amount. If DSU was a more viable option for them as a quality football school how could that not have the potential to be a negative for UD?

This argument is difficult to follow. I understand that competition increases, but that is a good thing to have happen, not bad. It doesn't mean that one program will suffer at the expense of another. If the games elevated into intense rivalries on both sides with both teams winning instead of one-sided affairs, that would help both schools in recruiting. A stadium that is charged with the electricity of a rivalry is great for recruiting. Most recruits are not excited about playing games above or below their level of competition.

A heated rivalry is good for both schools, just like a rising tide lifts all boats. Ask GSU-Furman, or App State- Furman, or Montana-MSU, etc., etc., the list goes on and on. Most of us love college football because it is intense and good rivalries only increase that intensity.

[eaglesrthe1]

Crowd control. That crap is so wrong on so many levels. You know why there is a fear of the crowds gettin' out of control? Because that's the way that they are! :rolleyes:


Meanwhile....dudes are shooting each other at NC St games...but that just a couple of dudes. Annnd...Parents are body blocking 13 year olds at PeeWee football games...but that just some crazy ass parent.

But when it's one of them...it's just THEM!

Stupid ass crap. It's what sticks in your mind, when it's what is on your mind.:nono: :nono: :bawling:

[joe c]

Allow me to interject on this seemingly hot topic. First and foremost the game should be played but only at Newark. By the way Del St. would agree to that. Secondly It is actually a win win for Delaware because Del St is not as good as a program as West Chester.(Although Lavin is turning that around) So in essence Delaware should rather beat up on a bad 1aa program than a decent d2 program. So that would help Delaware come playoff selection time. The excuse of crowd control could be conceived as ridiculous to some but in reality has surfaced between northern and southern delaware high school teams. The problem however was that was on a high school level and never with Delaware State. The problems and I came name them (if this is a true concern from U of D which I doubt) are at a Blue-Gold game where fans of the southern teams caused a major fight including the attacking of some blue players and their parents and referees leading to the arrest of some. Also for years the 2 football factory high schools (Salersianum Academy and Middletown High School) stopped their intense rivalry because of violence after before and after the game. However these 2 schools have recently renewed this once great rivalry (which of cousre has resulted in sell out crowds and great games) with absolutely no trouble and mutual respect amongst the players on the field. All that being said as a longtime Hen Fan (first game 1966) I BELIEVE THAE GAME SHOULD BE PLAYED. I think it would be great fun. However it cost us playing some national D1aa teams then maybe I'd rethinkl. I loved our series with GSU (wish we played you every year), I look forward to playing Furman and South Dakota State (home and home). I would to be playing App St. and Mcneese. I can't believe I'll admit this in public BUT I SURE DO MISS THE LEHIGH SERIES (that was great times and fun and the lehigh fans are fun to banter with). I am jealous that Lehigh and Nova have a 5 year run coming. Play the game EDGAR.. That's all

[henfan]

If this was racism, then why does Delaware play DSU in all the other sports, including basketball, baseball, etc. I guess the AD must take off his racism hat when he schedules those sports and puts it back on when he schedules football. While I am one of those who would like to see the game scheduled, racism has NOTHING to do with it.

Well, I've actually lived in Delaware my whole life and have followed this situation for close to a couple of decades. I've also had the opportunity to speak with two former DSU ADs and three former politicians.

If you knew anything about the situation, you'd realize that UD never, ever scheduled DSU in any sport until the early 1990s, when they finally agreed to meet DSU in Olympic sports. UD briefly and informally also floated the possibility of playing a future football game in Newark during the '92 season. To put this into its proper context, the UD at the time was actively soliticing state funding for its convocation center (i.e.- its basketball area).

Now, I'm not suggesting that the UD's Olympic sport deal with its sister state school DSU was necessarily quid pro quo, but it sure did clear the path for any questions that might have been raised by Delaware Senate Finance Committee. Maybe its just a huge coincidence that the UD broke a decades long, self-imposed moritorium of playing DSU at a time when they were seeking a multi-million dollar public grant to construct its own on-campus basketball arena. Only UD knows for sure.

As a post-texts, once funding was secured, the UD scheduled Towson State for the '92 football season. No serious discussions with DSU about a football game have taken place since.

In response to requests from DSU, there were earlier half-hearted attempts in the late '70's/early '80's by UD AD David Nelson to schedule DSU. The Board of Trustees intervened and put the kabosh on the deal. (How often do Boards of Trustees get involved in minutae like athletic scheduling?)

People will just have to judge for themselves why this remains the longest example of two state teams in the same division that have never played one another. In the absence of valid explanations from UD as to why they refuse to play DSU and considering the 'separate but equal' origins of these two schools, cultural history is going to enter into the discussion. That's just the way it is.

It will be interesting to see what happens the next time UD needs a major grant to enlarge or build a new football facility.

[89Hen]

statistics have nothing to do with the issue.
I can agree with that, but I'm not sure what you mean by...


When it's (race card) jumping off the page, someone needs to play it.
Exactly how is it jumping off the page?

[89Hen]

My point was that UMASS played DSU period. I don't care WHERE they play, the point is that THEY PLAYED.
I'm sure DSU would love to play UD @ UD. Why not give them a chance? The only 2 D1-AA football playing schools in the whole state, and they're not playing each other?: smh : Give me a break!:nod:
So one game in Newark and everyone will be happy? :rolleyes: Give me a break.

[UpstateNYHen]

I just don't see any upside for UD if this game is played. Especially with a home-and-home to DSU's minor league facilities. With regards to UAlbany, a previous poster is correct. Living near UAlbany, it is obvious that they are an up and coming program. They have made and continue to make investments in the program with a new stadium proposal in the near future. Are they on UD's level at this point? Probably not (we'll know soon). However, the potential is there.

[GannonFan]

This argument is difficult to follow. I understand that competition increases, but that is a good thing to have happen, not bad. It doesn't mean that one program will suffer at the expense of another. If the games elevated into intense rivalries on both sides with both teams winning instead of one-sided affairs, that would help both schools in recruiting. A stadium that is charged with the electricity of a rivalry is great for recruiting. Most recruits are not excited about playing games above or below their level of competition.

A heated rivalry is good for both schools, just like a rising tide lifts all boats. Ask GSU-Furman, or App State- Furman, or Montana-MSU, etc., etc., the list goes on and on. Most of us love college football because it is intense and good rivalries only increase that intensity.

That would all be fine and well if UD was struggling in recruiting or if the best and brightest of the DE high school world were going elsewhere. However, most of the best talent in DE, a very small state for talent as it is, already stays at home and goes to UD. There are certainly some that go out of state but again, with it being such a small state, a lot of that is attributable to kids wanting to go away from home for college. UD already has a home field that is electric and helps to recruit so playing DSU wouldn't do much, if anything, to elevate that. I think that was the point several other posters, including myself, have made - a series like this would float both boats, as you say, but the difference in level from where the boats are now would mean that the vast majority of the benefit for this series would be for DSU - they have so much more ground to make up. UD can't fill the stadium any more than they do, the place can't really get more electric, and they can't recruit many more kids from the state since that tiny pool of talent is already tapped out. The only thing that could come out of this would be a stronger DSU program and why UD should be tasked with bringing that about is certainly one reason why they could be avoiding playing them.

[Tribe4SF]

I can agree with that, but I'm not sure what you mean by...


Exactly how is it jumping off the page?

The whole "crowd control" issue. Just my opinion.

ChickenMan and I have terminated our private discussion, so I'm done here.

Back to football!!!:hurray:

[89Hen]

First and foremost the game should be played but only at Newark. By the way Del St. would agree to that. Secondly It is actually a win win for Delaware because Del St is not as good as a program as West Chester.(Although Lavin is turning that around) So in essence Delaware should rather beat up on a bad 1aa program than a decent d2 program. So that would help Delaware come playoff selection time.
I disagree with both points here. You really think one game in Newark is going to quell anything? Let's just say they did play a game in Newark and the Hens win 50-0. The next thing to come out of Dover would be "sure they beat us badly, but it was in Newark, they need to come to Dover and see how close it would be". Let's say the Hens win by a couple points or DSU wins. Then out of Dover we'd hear "They won't play us any more because they're afraid they'll lose." Obviously this is my opinon only, but I firmly believe that and that is why I'm opposed to this game. If Delaware is 'forced' to schedule DSU once, why couldn't they be forced to having a series with them? Telling a school who they should/shouldn't play is ridiculous.

As for the second comment about playoffs and WCUPA, you won't find many Hen fans that actually want to keep WCUPA on the schedule, but beating them vs. beating DSU or any other I-AA has really no bearing on playoffs. The reality is that an 8-3+ Delaware will make the playoffs every year, unless there are some absolutely extrodinary circumstances. I'm not saying this because I'm a Hens fan, I'm saying it because I know the Selection Committee will not pass up the attendance. Same goes for Montana.

[89Hen]

The whole "crowd control" issue. Just my opinion.
Oh, sorry. I agree with you on that and I'll never give that as a reason why I feel UD shouldn't be forced to play this game. Citing crowd control issues is definitely screaming racism in my book.

[Tribe4SF]

As for the second comment about playoffs and WCUPA, you won't find many Hen fans that actually want to keep WCUPA on the schedule, but beating them vs. beating DSU or any other I-AA has really no bearing on playoffs. The reality is that an 8-3+ Delaware will make the playoffs every year, unless there are some absolutely extrodinary circumstances. I'm not saying this because I'm a Hens fan, I'm saying it because I know the Selection Committee will not pass up the attendance. Same goes for Montana.

Since this is really a different topic, I'll comment. An 8-3 UD with a win over WCU and three conference losses could easily miss the playoffs. The terrain has changed, and the days of 8-3 being a lock for anybody are gone. If UD was to end up 7-3 against Div I, and UMass and Richmond were 8-3 against Div I with UNH winning the conference, the committee would have to put 4 A-10 teams in. With regionalization and all the good teams around the country, I don't think we'll see them giving three of the eight at large bids to the A-10. GWFC has had a big role in making that less likely.

[ChickenMan]

Since this is really a different topic, I'll comment. An 8-3 UD with a win over WCU and three conference losses could easily miss the playoffs.

8-3 may be optimistic for the Hens... far too many question marks entering the season. Anywhere from 6 to 8 wins is likely... but a lot of the questions will have to be answered in a very positive manner in order for UD to get the 8 wins.

[89Hen]

the days of 8-3 being a lock for anybody are gone. If UD was to end up 7-3 against Div I, and UMass and Richmond were 8-3 against Div I with UNH winning the conference, the committee would have to put 4 A-10 teams in. With regionalization and all the good teams around the country, I don't think we'll see them giving three of the eight at large bids to the A-10. GWFC has had a big role in making that less likely.
You are correct that there are some circumstances that UD wouldn't go at 8-3, but if the Hens lose three conference games and are in fourth place in the A10 and only three bids are going out, a DII vs I-AA OOC isn't going to matter. If UD and Richmond are tied in the conference and 8-3 overall (UD actually 7-3) and it's come down to one of them, I still think UD goes.

I agree that the GWFC could take away an at-large from the current autobid conferences, but don't forget, the A10's perfomance in 2004. It's certainly not out of the question to have three at-large bids.

FWIW, the last time an A10 at 8-3 was left out of the playoffs was 2001 when URI and VU were 8-3 and both stayed home. Nova lost to a DII that year and URI was as you describe, 8-3 (5-3 A10) and in fifth place. IMO that is extrodinary circumstance with four teams tied for first place (the only time that's happened since the Yankee/A10 expanded).

[Tribe4SF]

8-3 may be optimistic for the Hens... far too many question marks entering the season. Anywhere from 6 to 8 wins is likely... but a lot of the questions will have to be answered in a very positive manner in order for UD to get the 8 wins.

If it does play out, 4 bids for the A-10 would mean only two for the Gateway, Big Sky, Southland, and Southern....and only one for the Patriot, Ohio Valley, MEAC and GWFC. When it comes down to that last bid, a DII game will hurt the chances.

[Tribe4SF]

You are correct that there are some circumstances that UD wouldn't go at 8-3, but if the Hens lose three conference games and are in fourth place in the A10 and only three bids are going out, a DII vs I-AA OOC isn't going to matter. If UD and Richmond are tied in the conference and 8-3 overall (UD actually 7-3) and it's come down to one of them, I still think UD goes.
I agree that the GWFC could take away an at-large from the current autobid conferences, but don't forget, the A10's perfomance in 2004. It's certainly not out of the question to have three at-large bids.

FWIW, the last time an A10 at 8-3 was left out of the playoffs was 2001 when URI and VU were 8-3 and both stayed home. Nova lost to a DII that year and URI was as you describe, 8-3 (5-3 A10) and in fifth place. IMO that is extrodinary circumstance with four teams tied for first place (the only time that's happened since the Yankee/A10 expanded).

I'm thinking that would come down to head to head.

[dbackjon]

Well, I've actually lived in Delaware my whole life and have followed this situation for close to a couple of decades. I've also had the opportunity to speak with two former DSU ADs and three former politicians.

If you knew anything about the situation, you'd realize that UD never, ever scheduled DSU in any sport until the early 1990s, when they finally agreed to meet DSU in Olympic sports. UD briefly and informally also floated the possibility of playing a future football game in Newark during the '92 season. To put this into its proper context, the UD at the time was actively soliticing state funding for its convocation center (i.e.- its basketball area).

Now, I'm not suggesting that the UD's Olympic sport deal with its sister state school DSU was necessarily quid pro quo, but it sure did clear the path for any questions that might have been raised by Delaware Senate Finance Committee. Maybe its just a huge coincidence that the UD broke a decades long, self-imposed moritorium of playing DSU at a time when they were seeking a multi-million dollar public grant to construct its own on-campus basketball arena. Only UD knows for sure.

As a post-texts, once funding was secured, the UD scheduled Towson State for the '92 football season. No serious discussions with DSU about a football game have taken place since.

In response to requests from DSU, there were earlier half-hearted attempts in the late '70's/early '80's by UD AD David Nelson to schedule DSU. The Board of Trustees intervened and put the kabosh on the deal. (How often do Boards of Trustees get involved in minutae like athletic scheduling?)

People will just have to judge for themselves why this remains the longest example of two state teams in the same division that have never played one another. In the absence of valid explanations from UD as to why they refuse to play DSU and considering the 'separate but equal' origins of these two schools, cultural history is going to enter into the discussion. That's just the way it is.

It will be interesting to see what happens the next time UD needs a major grant to enlarge or build a new football facility.

Excellent post - and one that none of the anti-playing DSU crowd has responded to.

[89Hen]

I'm thinking that would come down to head to head.
If it did, then the OOC game still doesn't matter.

[henfan]

To cut through some of the smoke screens, UD and DSU have only twice discussed the possibility of a football game in any serious way. A game in Dover was never part of those discussions from what I've read and what I've been told by people involved in some of those negotiations.

Plain and simple. DSU wants a game against UD, anytime, anyplace (that includes Newark), as both their current and former coach have publicly stated. Nobody from DSU has requested from UD a long-term series or a game in Dover.

The latest official reason for not playing DSU from UD AD Edgar Johnson is that UD has no room on its schedules for DSU. Of course, he's made absolutely no effort to make room for DSU. Paging Yossarian. :bang:

[dbackjon]

To cut through some of the smoke screens, UD and DSU have only twice discussed the possibility of a football game in any serious way. A game in Dover was never part of those discussions from what I've read and what I've been told by people involved in some of those negotiations.

Plain and simple. DSU wants a game against UD, anytime, anyplace (that includes Newark), as both their current and former coach have publicly stated. Nobody from DSU has requested from UD a long-term series or a game in Dover.

The latest official reason for not playing DSU from UD AD Edgar Johnson is that UD has no room on its schedules for DSU. Of course, he's made absolutely no effort to make room for DSU. Paging Yossarian. :bang:

How much longer is Johnson expected to remain AD? Seems like I have heard many of the Hen faithful complain mightly about him in the past.

[blukeys]

I disagree with both points here. You really think one game in Newark is going to quell anything? Let's just say they did play a game in Newark and the Hens win 50-0. The next thing to come out of Dover would be "sure they beat us badly, but it was in Newark, they need to come to Dover and see how close it would be". Let's say the Hens win by a couple points or DSU wins. Then out of Dover we'd hear "They won't play us any more because they're afraid they'll lose." Obviously this is my opinon only, but I firmly believe that and that is why I'm opposed to this game. If Delaware is 'forced' to schedule DSU once, why couldn't they be forced to having a series with them? Telling a school who they should/shouldn't play is ridiculous.



It's a shame I just got rid of My Delaware State Parking Pass 2 weeks ago having spent 6 weeks of my summer on that campus. The truth is there is no burning interest on that campus for the game. Sure, if you asked a Delstate student if they would like to have a game they'd say yes but most DelState Undergrads are from out of State and don't see UD as a big deal. Many are from Florida and other points south. For these undergrads and the real long time DelState fans FAMU is a HUGE game. It's possible that more undergrads at DSU would rather have a game with Grambling than UD. I have gone to DelState games since the 80's and only on a handful of occasions has anyone asked me about a UD - DSU game.

There are a hard core of very bitter faculty members, administrators, and some alumni who have an absolute HATE for UD. Most are not particularly interested in football but see any mention of UD as a knock on DSU. I've had a couple of these as instructors during summer classes. They will see any football arrangement other than a home ane home arrangement as an insult to DSU. 89 is quite correct. One game in Newark will not satisfy this crew and we will be back on this Merry Go Around again and again and again.

[89Hen]

Plain and simple. DSU wants a game against UD, anytime, anyplace (that includes Newark), as both their current and former coach have publicly stated. Nobody from DSU has requested from UD a long-term series or a game in Dover.
Of course not. If they're having trouble getting one game why would they ask for a home and home or long-term series at this point? :confused:

[Ivytalk]

Blukeys, where did your DSU parking pass entitle you to leave your car? Dover Downs? Slaughter Beach? Magnolia?:confused: :confused: xlolx

[HIU 93]

I'll repeat... the potential problems wouldn't be caused by DSU fans... but by maybe some of the same individuals that don't normally attend Delaware HS games (there have been very few serious incidents at regualr season HS football games) but seem to view the higher profile HS football events as an opportunity to raise a little hell. It doesn't take a great leap of logic to be concerned that those same individuals might view an even HIGHER profile UD/DSU game in the same manner.

Since we are repeating- If there is a "bad element" at Delaware HS games, and the concern is that a DSU/UD game would bring that same "bad element", but that "bad element" has nothing to do with race, then why wouldn't there be a concern that the same "bad element" would attend a UD/West Chester or UD/Holy Cross or UD/Hofstra game?

[henfan]

Since we are repeating- If there is a "bad element" at Delaware HS games, and the concern is that a DSU/UD game would bring that same "bad element", but that "bad element" has nothing to do with race, then why wouldn't there be a concern that the same "bad element" would attend a UD/West Chester or UD/Holy Cross or UD/Hofstra game?

Unfortunately, HIU, the "bad element" at The Tub tend to be some of the same drunked-up, redneck hotdogs who have been attending games for years. There's "bad elements" in every crowd.

[89Hen]

the "bad element" at The Tub tend to be some of the same drunked-up, redneck hotdogs who have been attending games for years.
You mean the ones drunked up on homebrew IPA? :p

[BayouColonel]

SOUTHERN has played ever school in their division in state. We had an approx twenty year series with Nicholls begining in 1980 or 81, a 10 years series with NWST and played McNeese once and played SELA before they stopped playing football in 83?. We've played two SLC teams the same year about 8 times. Now you name another school with a history like ours of playing OOC in state team. This discussion is about two teams in state in the same division and playoff conferences. I waiting on the D-IAA/CS advocates to tune in, haven't heard from some of them. :read:

True, but why won't they honor their contracts for return games. SU's administration has there reason and as a Colonel fan I don't have to like it but it would be foolish to go around blaming rasicm as the reason. Just trying to have people look at it from another angle.

[henfan]

You mean the ones drunked up on homebrew IPA? :p

:smiley_wi And you missed out.

[SoCon48]

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/09/election.president/link.jesse.jackson.ap.jpg

"The University... of Delaware..is a racist....Institution"

LOL!!!!!!
Pa tum pa tum pa tum tumtum
Jesse J to the rescue

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[GAD]

True, but why won't they honor their contracts for return games. SU's administration has there reason and as a Colonel fan I don't have to like it but it would be foolish to go around blaming rasicm as the reason. Just trying to have people look at it from another angle.
I know I'm gonna kick my self for ask'n but what on earth are you talking about?

[McNeese75]

I know I'm gonna kick my self for ask'n but what on earth are you talking about?

xlolx I would have never asked that question

[GAD]

xlolx I would have never asked that question
I understand the cowboys point of view not a problem there, but what's the Colonels talking about?

[McNeese75]

I understand the cowboys point of view not a problem there, but what's the Colonels talking about?

Actually Gad I was not even referring to the McNeese issue, I was just laughing at your stepping into it and knowing something was probably coming. xlolx

[BgJag]

Actually Gad I was not even referring to the McNeese issue, I was just laughing at your stepping into it and knowing something was probably coming. xlolx

Can we leave Southern and our in state schools whom has played out of this and back to DU and DSU who hasn't played. :nono: :D xcoffeex

[catdaddy2402]

This discussion concerns schools from the same state in the same division who have never scheduled one another.
Alabama has never played UAB or Troy in football.

Auburn has never played Troy.

UCLA has never played San Jose St.

Miami has never played Central Florida.

Notre Dame has never played Ball State.


The SEC's tie-in with the Liberty Bowl provides an out if the opponent from CUSA is an in-state school to the SEC team. It's commonly regarded as the Alabama/Ole Miss/Mississippi State rule....because the rest of the SEC schools have no problem playing their instate counterparts from CUSA.



IMO UD is in a no win situation here. Refuse to play DSU and they get cast in a negative light.....but the stand to gain absolutly nothing by playing them. If they cave in and allow one game...before long they are in a home and home yearly series that only hurts UD by elevating the stature of DSU. If they don't DSU and/or it's fans can run UD's name thru the mud. It's easy for fans of other schools to sit on their high horse and say "This game must be played"...but honestly very few are in the same type situation that UD is in. When you are the big fish(program) in a small pond(state) the last thing you want to do is help another, smaller fish(program) get bigger.

[Jaxhen]

This is not racism guys. Delaware played Morgan State in 1977 and NC A&T in 1978 during the regular season, had a great running back in Mike Brown back in 1963, and named Dennis Johnson the captain of the team in 1972. They have had numerous black players going back to the early 60s. Maybe elitism to a certain extent because Delaware has always had a very strong academic and football tradition, whereas Delaware State has not, but not racism. Delaware has nothing to gain and everything to lose in such a matchup, which is probably one of the main reasons, plus Delaware can always sell out their stadium (+22,000) even playing D-II teams like West Chester. Even if Delaware State agreed to play all the games at Delaware, how long do you think it would be before the race card would be played again about always playing at Delaware. Nevertheless, I would like to see them play just to quiet this argument.

[Go Poly]

When it comes to football they are inferior and it has nothing to do with segregation. So you're saying UD owes it to DSU to play them? This is exactly why I'm opposed to the game. xcoffeex


I don't have a dog in this hunt, but you are exactly right! The entitlement mentality of the DSU athletic department is all I need to hear to say no to their "proposal"! xcoffeex

[MR. CHICKEN]

TA DUH I-AA......KNUCKLE-DRAGGERS.......WHOM.......THINK...DELAWARE IS UH WEENIE...FO' PLAYIN' D-II........INSTEAD O' DELAWARE STATE.........WELL AT LEAST....WE BEAT OURAH D-II.......:rotateh::nod::rotateh:........BRAWK!

SOME YA'LL COULDN'T...WHIP YER....D-III!: smh :

IN STATE...OUTTA STATE........STATE O' CONFUSION.....WE WEIRD FO' PLAYIN' D-II?.....BUT YA'LL...GOTS 'EM TOO!....TSK!..TSK!! :nono:

[TigerFan17]

Ok lets take a step back here. To anyone claiming that UD will not play DSU because they are racist, do me a favor. Check out UD's roster. How can a team with the majority of their players being African-American not play a team because they are have a lot of African-Americans. That in itself just blows this out of the water. I think this whole thing is ridiculous.

The only team with something to gain from this is DSU, UD will gain nothing. They can schedule who they want.

This is just ridiculous to me.

[blukeys]

Ok lets take a step back here. To anyone claiming that UD will not play DSU because they are racist, do me a favor. Check out UD's roster. How can a team with the majority of their players being African-American not play a team because they are have a lot of African-Americans. That in itself just blows this out of the water. I think this whole thing is ridiculous.

The only team with something to gain from this is DSU, UD will gain nothing. They can schedule who they want.

This is just ridiculous to me.

UD just Played DSU in Volleyball. Both teams were predominately white. UD's best player is African American. Seems to me there is more to it than race but hey Bell was in trouble with segments in the DSU community. His comments might have saved his job.

[MR. CHICKEN]

YEAH...UH WHITE GUY...CRYIN' FOWL....FO' UH BLACK INSTITUTION...WAY TA GAIN....POINTS...WHIFF DUH BLACK...DEL. ST. MAJORITY!

[blukeys]

YEAH...UH WHITE GUY...CRYIN' FOWL....FO' UH BLACK INSTITUTION...WAY TA GAIN....POINTS...WHIFF DUH BLACK...DEL. ST. MAJORITY!


Could be, or the guy was asked by KT in a phone interview the week of the WCUPA game. (By the way why is Tresolini calling the DelState AD the week of the WCUPA game???????) "Well why haven't you lined up a game with UD yet???????????? " What's Your problem Bell??? Are you too incompetent or is there another reason that UD won't schedule you. Could it be???????????????

I don't think Charlie is smart enough to use this to cater to the "I hate UD crowd" at Delstate. I think KT used his superior local knowledge to lead Bell into the quote that would generate a headline and promote KT's favorite agenda. The fact that Bell will benefit with his main critics, is a side benefit he never figured on.