Elon, you're on the clock...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.elonpendulum.com/2013/05/davidson-jumps-to-atlantic-10-elon-next-to-leave-socon/


Davidson College put the realignment wheels in motion again Tuesday May 7. With the private school’s move to the Atlantic 10 Conference starting in the 2014-2015 school year, the Southern Conference seems to be falling apart again.

Though conference commissioner John Iamarino made his best attempt to save the conference following the departure of Appalachian State University and Georgia Southern University in March, Davidson leaving points to Elon being the next piece to fall.

...

The idea of Elon joining the Colonial Athletic Association has been tossed around for a while now. The idea gained legs again after Appalachian State and Georgia Southern moved up to the Sun Belt Conference.

While Elon media relations said Blank and Elon coaches are “unavailable for interviews regarding conference realignment and such at this time,” Dan Anderson, the vice president of University communications, confirmed Wednesday both Blank and Lambert had meetings in which both the change of conferences and the impact the move would have on Elon were discussed.

Blank met with athletes while the topic was raised during Lambert’s faculty meeting last week.

While Anderson said no conclusions have been reached, the idea is being thrown around Elon leadership and could become a reality in the near future.

“At this point, Elon is evaluating changes in the Southern Conference and considering what that might mean for Elon’s future,” Anderson said.

Not exactly a secret, but plenty here to indicate that Elon to the CAA seems likely to happen.

[Apphole]

Finally some good realignment news for the SoCon.

[DFW HOYA]

The SoCon has been around since 1921. It will endure. The CAA, no such guarantees.

[MplsBison]

Does Elon have an invitation to the CAA or is there any evidence that the CAA wants Elon? Twitter from people in athletic departments or newspapers would suffice.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

With everything that's happened, Elon looks like a lot better move now for the CAA than it did months ago.

Folks may complain about replacing ODU with Elon in terms of football and/or hoops strength now, but the truth is, what other all-sports members were available? The CAA needed an all-sports member with football to keep that delicate infrastructure in balance, and they're a 3 1/2 hour from William and Mary, which can't hurt.

[cmaxwellgsu]

With the SoCon's footprint and history, it will survive and someone will step up to the national stage in FCS. While I see Wofford, Furman, or the Citadel being the teams that could do it; I don't really see Elon doing so. They had some momentum, but lost it before getting over the hump. They also don't have a great deal of league history, so I don't see them being the straw that breaks the camel's back.

[fc97]

Does Elon have an invitation to the CAA or is there any evidence that the CAA wants Elon? Twitter from people in athletic departments or newspapers would suffice.

seriously? i posted links to article from the past year detailing this. do a search. heck, i even posted more in response to your very question on this matter before.

[fc97]

the only reason i can say why is, the only schools in the conference that students cared about were davidson, charleston and app. unlike the rest of the schools, most of the elon alumni live well outside the socon footprint.

[rokamortis]

Folks may complain about replacing ODU with Elon in terms of football and/or hoops strength now, but the truth is, what other all-sports members were available?.

Coastal is available and would join the CAA if offered ... but we are down on the list of desirable candidates.

[asumike83]

Would be a good move for Elon. Lots of alumni in the Northeast and they'd still have regional opponents in UNCW, Charleston, W&M and JMU.

[MplsBison]

For the fun of it, here's the CAA membership timeline (bear with me, due to football, wrestling and men's lacrosse there are a truck load of associate members....what you're looking for here is green or purple at the far right edge)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/8da335678d114ec7782f3d2b06210cf2.png


Basically you have three groups of members:

'The (near) originals' - this is basically now down to James Madison, William & Mary and UNC-Wilmington

'The Delaware group' - this was and still is Delaware, Towson, Drexel and Hofstra (no need to rehash how UD stole these teams from America East..)

'Newer members' - now this just down to Northeastern and Charleston



I'm sure this has been discussed to death, but a coupole of obvious things come to mind for me:

1) obviously UNC-W and Charleston are well matched travel partners so there is no need for more schools from the Carolinas

2) why not simply offer full membership to Albany and Stony Brook and be done with the thing for now??

[rokamortis]

1) obviously UNC-W and Charleston are well matched travel partners so there is no need for more schools from the Carolinas


I'm not saying this as pro-Coastal becuase I think we are too close to UNCW and CofC and the profile doesn't quite match up with the other CAA schools - but why wouldn't you want other teams in the Carolinas? I think UNCW and CofC would prefer to have more 3-4 hour trips than 6-8+ hour trips. As an example, you could add Elon and Furman and I'm sure UNCW and CofC would be ecstatic from a travel perspective.

[Waco Kid]

At this point Elon would be crazy not to go. If they do move UTC and ETSU should join the OVC, and whats left of the SoCon should merge with the Big South. The Big Southern would be full of schools that are similar in size, close together, and WCU might be able to get over .500 in football. Everybody wins.

[Sir William]

At this point Elon would be crazy not to go. If they do move UTC and ETSU should join the OVC, and whats left of the SoCon should merge with the Big South. The Big Southern would be full of schools that are similar in size, close together, and WCU might be able to get over .500 in football. Everybody wins.

Let Elon go - and take UNCG with'em. Has little bearing on the future of the SoCon. If ETSU gets and accepts a SoCon invite, it is highly doubtful that either them or Chatty leave for the OVC. The SoCon has survived and advanced from several exoduses across the years and will be fine this time around as well, once the dust settles. It would be foolish to count the conference as all but dead (kinda like so many thought the ACC's days were numbered - then bang! Possibly now the most stable conference in D1.)

No Chicken Little here.

[rokamortis]

At this point Elon would be crazy not to go. If they do move UTC and ETSU should join the OVC, and whats left of the SoCon should merge with the Big South. The Big Southern would be full of schools that are similar in size, close together, and WCU might be able to get over .500 in football. Everybody wins.

The Big Southern would still have big discrepancies in terms of school sizes - from small (PC, WC, VMI, Citadel, UNCA) to medium (Furman, Winthrop, Coastal, Radford) to large (Liberty, UNCG) and especially how much they fund their programs. It would be better to split by those who want to spend the money to be competitive and those that want to spend the minimal amount to have a DI athletics program.

[fc97]

hey look! there's a bid, there's a plane. no, wait, it is MplsBison and his logic.

seriously bro, go to news.google.com. enter the keywords for colonial expansion, caa expansion, caa elon or colonial elon and so on. go back to articles from early fall and before. and go and read, especially, articles from richmond, charleston, wilmington, burlington and you can find yourself quotes on why a mid-atlantic group is desired.

you can find all your answers there rather than posting here like you know what you're talking about.

bye bye

[MplsBison]

I'm not saying this as pro-Coastal becuase I think we are too close to UNCW and CofC and the profile doesn't quite match up with the other CAA schools - but why wouldn't you want other teams in the Carolinas? I think UNCW and CofC would prefer to have more 3-4 hour trips than 6-8+ hour trips. As an example, you could add Elon and Furman and I'm sure UNCW and CofC would be ecstatic from a travel perspective.

Because I see the CAA as a Virginia and northeast conference, save for the long time member UNC-W. Therefore, Charleston was to appease them and get them a solid, non-football travel partner. That's done. That's the pair in the south.

Now they can focus on the core of the conference being Virginia and the NE. Adding Stony and Albany would strengthen that while adding two public flagships from the NE.


Carlolinas are southern conferences, like the Big South and the SoCon. That's honestly where UNC-W and Charleston should be. Wilmington should've went over to the SoCon.

[rokamortis]

Because I see the CAA as a Virginia and northeast conference, save for the long time member UNC-W. Therefore, Charleston was to appease them and get them a solid, non-football travel partner. That's done. That's the pair in the south.

Now they can focus on the core of the conference being Virginia and the NE. Adding Stony and Albany would strengthen that while adding two public flagships from the NE.


Carlolinas are southern conferences, like the Big South and the SoCon. That's honestly where UNC-W and Charleston should be. Wilmington should've went over to the SoCon.
I think the CAA wants to be a complete east coast conference - not north, mid, or south.

[walliver]

An interesting bit of useless trivia is that Elon joined the SoCon to replace VMI.

To be honest, Elon has never been a great fit with the SoCon. It is private and in the Carolinas, but, other than a complicated "rivalry" with App State, apparently based on something that happened decades ago, Elon really doesn't have football rivals in the SoCon.

I would rather they stay, but wouldn't miss them too much if they leave, although I would be pissed if they were replaced by PC or GWU. I've wondered if the SoCon apparently adding three potential FB schools was done in anticipation of Elon leaving. They are a geographic outlier in the SoCon, and will still be so in the CAA (at least for football). In the CAA they will get media revenue, but it will be eaten up traveling to Stoney Brook, Albany, Rhode Island, New Hampshire and Maine for football, and will probably be a financial wash.

Since they seem to be making no effort to deny the rumors, I suspect it is essentially a "done deal".

[danefan]

2) why not simply offer full membership to Albany and Stony Brook and be done with the thing for now??

How do you know they haven't? xsmiley_wix

[MplsBison]

I think the CAA wants to be a complete east coast conference - not north, mid, or south.

Right. Whatever Delaware wants. They created the conference in 2001, after all.

[fc97]

How do you know they haven't? xsmiley_wix

rumor has it that albany has. rumor has it stony brook has not. and there are new rumors swirling about furman.

[danefan]

rumor has it that albany has. rumor has it stony brook has not. and there are new rumors swirling about furman.

I know nothing of rumors........xcoffeex

[MplsBison]

I would love to see even a Twitter about Furman leaving the SoCon for CAA. What a Elon fan fabricated fantasy.

[Saint3333]

Let Elon go - and take UNCG with'em. Has little bearing on the future of the SoCon. If ETSU gets and accepts a SoCon invite, it is highly doubtful that either them or Chatty leave for the OVC. The SoCon has survived and advanced from several exoduses across the years and will be fine this time around as well, once the dust settles. It would be foolish to count the conference as all but dead (kinda like so many thought the ACC's days were numbered - then bang! Possibly now the most stable conference in D1.)

No Chicken Little here.

This 'Din is doing his best black knight impersonation, enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

I'm not sure how this is close to the situation of the ACC. The ACC didn't lose Florida State and Virginia Tech, then UNC-CH and Duke, and now Wake is rumored to be leaving. They lost one mid level member and rumored to lose more.

[fc97]

I would love to see even a Twitter about Furman leaving the SoCon for CAA. What a Elon fan fabricated fantasy.

goodness gracious, what a tantrum, let me do some work for you since you seem unable to do your own research:
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2012/8/6/3224237/guessing-what-colonial-football-moves-mean-for-basketball
http://www.southernpigskin.com/SEC/view/dangerous-times-for-the-socon
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20120727/PC20/120729344/1032/fending-off-colonial-southern-conference-could-expand-commissioner-says&source=RSS
http://warnerscorner.bangordailynews.com/2012/08/01/football/caa-football-likely-to-expand-soon-with-more-northeast-schools/
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy

now that you've been educated, you can finish the search for yourself

[Sir William]

Saint,

Your point is well taken, but all I'm saying is that the SoCon has survived in the past, re-invented itself to a certain degree every time, and done well moving forward.

Remember when Marshall left. Lots of folks thought the SoCon would never be the same, even though we had added GaSo a couple of years before. What did the SoCon do? Added Wofford - and everyone said "Wofford? You gotta be kidding?" Well, maybe Wofford hasn't been to the NC yet, but they've proven to be a very good addition to the conference over the years. And since Marshall left, the poor little SoCon has seen GaSo go to the NC twice, Furman once, and App (who had never been worth spit in the playoffs prior), three times and winning all 3.

So, from a football standpoint, my point is that even with the loss of App and GaSo, the SoCon will move forward and be OK. Bless our hearts, we'll continue to be competitive on the national level - we always have been. We all wish you guys the best as you move to the SunBelt, and we hope you do well there b/c it indirectly reflects on the SoCon. Why not be gracious and wish us the best as we move forward without you?

Speaking from a football standpoint...knowing and having been part of the history of the SoCon, do you actually believe that the SoCon will lay down and die just b/c you guys are leaving? Do you really believe that Elon's status with the SoCon will determine our future? Yes it is a "flesh wound". However, it's not the first time, and probably won't be the last...yet we always heal and come out strong!

And by the way, "I fart in your general direction." xsmiley_wix

[Saint3333]

Love that movie, excellent comeback.

Comparing what has occurred the past 6 months to losing Marshall isn't a fair comparison. Losing one team after adding a national FCS power a couple years before is different than losing two national FCS powers and replacing them with two programs that don't have football and one that has never made the playoffs. This change isn't as drastic as when the ACC members exited, but it is much worse than when Marshall left.

I wish the conference well and is one reason I'm somewhat upset with the choices the SoCon is making. The SoCon has a chance to take schools and help them maintain its position as a top three FCS conference. Wofford, Elon, and Samford have all gotten better since they joined. ETSU and Mercer can as well, I just don't see VMI ever having a year better than what Citadel had last year. That is a low ceiling. It will be tough for the SoCon though as there will be an additional 500+ FBS scholarships available in the southeast in 2015 vs. 2009. That will have an impact on recruiting.

I wish the SoCon nothing but success in the FCS and hope someone can carry the banner over CAA, MVC, and Big Sky programs.

[Sir William]

BTW, if Elon does indeed leave the SoCon for the CAA, I think it's a move they will ultimately regret. They may not be much of a SoCon school, but they are more a SoCon school than a CAA one, IMHO (no offense intended, CAA).

Still, if they decide to go...meh.

(And Saint...I will miss the trips to Boone. Love coming up to KBS, and stopping by the Black Cat on the way home.)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Comparing what has occurred the past 6 months to losing Marshall isn't a fair comparison. Losing one team after adding a national FCS power a couple years before is different than losing two national FCS powers and replacing them with two programs that don't have football and one that has never made the playoffs. This change isn't as drastic as when the ACC members exited, but it is much worse than when Marshall left.

When Wofford replaced Marshall, they were a D-II program with a grand total of two playoff appearances at the D-II level, losing both. They were hardly a dominating program then, but since have evolved into a very strong football program, doing what they do.

Saying now is "much worse than when Marshall left" because they're replacing them with Mercer, which has "never made the playoffs", is a bit ill informed. The SoCon has always replaced members - it's a part of their DNA. And they'll be fine.

[CID1990]

BTW, if Elon does indeed leave the SoCon for the CAA, I think it's a move they will ultimately regret. They may not be much of a SoCon school, but they are more a SoCon school than a CAA one, IMHO (no offense intended, CAA).

Still, if they decide to go...meh.

(And Saint...I will miss the trips to Boone. Love coming up to KBS, and stopping by the Black Cat on the way home.)

I was going to say the same thing- I am probably in the minority not wanting to see Elon go. I am a little biased as I grew up right near Elon and was actually in attendance as a kid at one of their NAIA national championship games.

Right now, the CAA looks much more volatile as a football conference than the SoCon, and I expect that in the next 5 years there will be another big shakeup there and Elon could well find themselves wishing they had remained in the SoCon. plus, as I have mentioned before, FCS budgets tight in general, which makes being a member of a more compact geographical conference desirable. Elon's travel expenses are going to increase in the CAA, but that increase might be negligible I havent really looked at it closely.

I'll wish Elon well but I hope they decide to stay. To me, losing Elon is a loss that needs to be addressed. I feel completely opposite about the loss of cofc and Davidson.

[asumike83]

When Wofford replaced Marshall, they were a D-II program with a grand total of two playoff appearances at the D-II level, losing both. They were hardly a dominating program then, but since have evolved into a very strong football program, doing what they do.

Saying now is "much worse than when Marshall left" because they're replacing them with Mercer, which has "never made the playoffs", is a bit ill informed. The SoCon has always replaced members - it's a part of their DNA. And they'll be fine.

Saying that Marshall's power was replaced by Wofford is also a bit misinformed. Georgia Southern, then a 4X national champion, joined the conference a few years before Marshall left which kept the conference very strong in football (along with Furman, who was a perennial national power at the time) after they moved. It was also the loss of just one powerful football program instead of two.

The SoCon will make additions and I'm sure they will end up just fine after the new programs develop but this situation is much different than losing Marshall, especially when considering the departure of Davidson and Charleston for hoops.

[Saint3333]

When Wofford replaced Marshall, they were a D-II program with a grand total of two playoff appearances at the D-II level, losing both. They were hardly a dominating program then, but since have evolved into a very strong football program, doing what they do.

Saying now is "much worse than when Marshall left" because they're replacing them with Mercer, which has "never made the playoffs", is a bit ill informed. The SoCon has always replaced members - it's a part of their DNA. And they'll be fine.

Ill informed is a nice way to describe your post. I really enjoy our discussions though. I've lived through rooting for the SoCon for 25+ years and understand the differences between this change and the Marshall transition. I'm not some bandwagon App fan that hopped on in the mid-2000's.

GSU joined three years before Marshall left, this is a big difference. That would be like bringing in a JMU, UD type program in 2010 before one of either App OR GSU left in 2013 and then adding a Mercer type program to replace ONE program.

One that didn't happen, and two, losing two top 10 programs is much worse than losing one, in fact if my math is correct it is 100% worse.

In addition the two teams without football referenced were ETSU and Mercer, the program that never made the playoffs referenced is VMI.

I hope you're right, I just don't think the decisions made are going to make it as easy as you seem to think.

[Saint3333]

CID I grew up in Mebane, NC, please don't tell me you're from there too?

[superman7515]

BTW, if Elon does indeed leave the SoCon for the CAA, I think it's a move they will ultimately regret. They may not be much of a SoCon school, but they are more a SoCon school than a CAA one, IMHO (no offense intended, CAA).

Still, if they decide to go...meh.

(And Saint...I will miss the trips to Boone. Love coming up to KBS, and stopping by the Black Cat on the way home.)

No offense taken. I think the great majority of Delaware fans hope Elon doesn't end up in the CAA either.

[MplsBison]

Very minor point here, probably unrelated - but just want to make it, for what it's worth.

People invariably talk about how new teams will "rise up" and take the place of the departed. Well...that's kinda like saying the sun is going to rise tomorrow.


Someone has to win the conference championship every year. More over (in the context of teams leaving FCS altogether), someone has to win the national championship each year.

They're not going to stop handing out championships just because "you didn't win it as good as the team 10 years ago did".

I guess all I'm trying to say is that just because SoCon teams keep being competitive doesn't necessarily mean the level of play in the conference has always remained the same relative to the entirety of college football. Not saying it's going down either. Just saying...carry on.

[SpeedkingATL]

I would personally prefer Elon stay in the SoCon. I am a little surprised that there has been so little support for Coastal or Kennesaw State to join the SoCon. Having been a fan of the SoCon since the 70's I will continue to wish them well. There will be a transition period but the conference will be fine going forward. I will miss the trips to Furple, Wofford, UTC, and yes, even to Cullowhee and Elon.

[The Cats]

I'd prefer Elon to stay, but if they leave, it'll have the least impact of any schools leaving.

[proasu89]

The SoCon has been around since 1921. It will endure. The CAA, no such guarantees.

Past performance does not indicate future success.

[Eagle22]

Ill informed is a nice way to describe your post. I really enjoy our discussions though. I've lived through rooting for the SoCon for 25+ years and understand the differences between this change and the Marshall transition. I'm not some bandwagon App fan that hopped on in the mid-2000's.

GSU joined three years before Marshall left, this is a big difference. That would be like bringing in a JMU, UD type program in 2010 before one of either App OR GSU left in 2013 and then adding a Mercer type program to replace ONE program.

One that didn't happen, and two, losing two top 10 programs is much worse than losing one, in fact if my math is correct it is 100% worse.

In addition the two teams without football referenced were ETSU and Mercer, the program that never made the playoffs referenced is VMI.

I hope you're right, I just don't think the decisions made are going to make it as easy as you seem to think.

It may have taken a fair amount of discipline xthumbsupx, but to completely leave out how dominant App State was during the 1995 season (just prior to Marshall leaving) is a fairly big omission that just adds weight to your position. Everyone seems to be fawning over what Marshall did (yes, they were good), but Georgia Southern won the league it's first try out (1993) with Tim Stowers at the helm.

There is little doubt in my mind that Wofford has stepped up from where they were when they entered the league in 1997, but they were not when they first came on board ... it took them about four years to get up to the same scholarship level (I think) and be competitive in the league ... which was very top heavy in the late 90's with ASU, GSU and Furman. It will be interesting to see how Wofford transitions once Mike Ayers retires, whenever that is.

[The Cats]

I would love to see even a Twitter about Furman leaving the SoCon for CAA. What a Elon fan fabricated fantasy.

Furman's going no where.

Furman athletic director confident in SoCon's future

May 9, 2013

Still, Furman athletics director Gary Clark is confident the SoCon’s resilience will endure again.

“That’s always been a part of the SoCon’s history,” Clark said. “The names and cast members have constantly changed, but it’s the cooperative, positive attitude and commitment when people are members that have allowed it to survive.”

“It’s more of a discussion of what’s the right fit and what makes sense,” Clark said. “I don’t think the numbers are something we will continue to focus on. The key will be the fit, compatibility, the competitive opportunities and the fiscal responsibility.”

Clark said he expects new members to be secured by the end of this summer.

“It’s a conference that’s been around for a long time,” Clark said. “I think it will continue to be around for a very long time. The key to that is the people working openly with each other. We value the diversity in the league, and I think that will continue.”


http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20130508/SPORTS/305080067/Furman-athletic-director-confident-SoCon-s-future

[appsfan]

It may have taken a fair amount of discipline xthumbsupx, but to completely leave out how dominant App State was during the 1995 season (just prior to Marshall leaving) is a fairly big omission that just adds weight to your position. Everyone seems to be fawning over what Marshall did (yes, they were good), but Georgia Southern won the league it's first try out (1993) with Tim Stowers at the helm.

There is little doubt in my mind that Wofford has stepped up from where they were when they entered the league in 1997, but they were not when they first came on board ... it took them about four years to get up to the same scholarship level (I think) and be competitive in the league ... which was very top heavy in the late 90's with ASU, GSU and Furman. It will be interesting to see how Wofford transitions once Mike Ayers retires, whenever that is.
One other point to consider, which potential SoCon addition has an alumnus who owns an NFL team who will sink $ into the facilities?

[CID1990]

CID I grew up in Mebane, NC, please don't tell me you're from there too?

So you went to Eastern Randolph, correct?


Sent from the center of the universe.

[Saint3333]

No Eastern Alamance.

[wmmii]

Coastal is available and would join the CAA if offered ... but we are down on the list of desirable candidates.

Even thou the coach is now gone, his "dogs" speach was funny but does not leave a great impression..........

[wmmii]

I was going to say the same thing- I am probably in the minority not wanting to see Elon go. I am a little biased as I grew up right near Elon and was actually in attendance as a kid at one of their NAIA national championship games.

Right now, the CAA looks much more volatile as a football conference than the SoCon, and I expect that in the next 5 years there will be another big shakeup there and Elon could well find themselves wishing they had remained in the SoCon. plus, as I have mentioned before, FCS budgets tight in general, which makes being a member of a more compact geographical conference desirable. Elon's travel expenses are going to increase in the CAA, but that increase might be negligible I havent really looked at it closely.

I'll wish Elon well but I hope they decide to stay. To me, losing Elon is a loss that needs to be addressed. I feel completely opposite about the loss of cofc and Davidson.

CAA bigger risk is Basketball. Only newcomer ODU leaving in football hurt-check out end of year rankings of CAA and include Albany and Stonybrook our new members for football.

[wmmii]

Does Elon have an invitation to the CAA or is there any evidence that the CAA wants Elon? Twitter from people in athletic departments or newspapers would suffice.

Yes interest IMO

[CID1990]

No Eastern Alamance.

Sorry, auto correct (I've typed Eastern Randolph before!) that's what I meant. I grew up in Yanceyville- went to Bartlett Yancey.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[MplsBison]

Furman's going no where.

Furman athletic director confident in SoCon's future

May 9, 2013

Still, Furman athletics director Gary Clark is confident the SoCon’s resilience will endure again.

“That’s always been a part of the SoCon’s history,” Clark said. “The names and cast members have constantly changed, but it’s the cooperative, positive attitude and commitment when people are members that have allowed it to survive.”

“It’s more of a discussion of what’s the right fit and what makes sense,” Clark said. “I don’t think the numbers are something we will continue to focus on. The key will be the fit, compatibility, the competitive opportunities and the fiscal responsibility.”

Clark said he expects new members to be secured by the end of this summer.

“It’s a conference that’s been around for a long time,” Clark said. “I think it will continue to be around for a very long time. The key to that is the people working openly with each other. We value the diversity in the league, and I think that will continue.”


http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20130508/SPORTS/305080067/Furman-athletic-director-confident-SoCon-s-future

Thank you.

I didn't think there was any chance of Furman leaving the conference they've been in since 1936.

[Saint3333]

Sorry, auto correct (I've typed Eastern Randolph before!) that's what I meant. I grew up in Yanceyville- went to Bartlett Yancey.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Great place to grow up no doubt.

[rokamortis]

Even thou the coach is now gone, his "dogs" speach was funny but does not leave a great impression..........

I don't disagree. The guy was colorful but I think that was one of the final straws, in addition to losing his fire and control of the team. But that is now in the past.

[CID1990]

Great place to grow up no doubt.

Yeah Caswell County is one of the better kept secrets in the Piedmont. That said, the southern part of the county down near Orange County is becoming a bedroom community for the Hillsborough/Chapel Hill area. Dirty Durham too.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[superman7515]

Furman's going no where.

Furman athletic director confident in SoCon's future

May 9, 2013

Still, Furman athletics director Gary Clark is confident the SoCon’s resilience will endure again.

“That’s always been a part of the SoCon’s history,” Clark said. “The names and cast members have constantly changed, but it’s the cooperative, positive attitude and commitment when people are members that have allowed it to survive.”

“It’s more of a discussion of what’s the right fit and what makes sense,” Clark said. “I don’t think the numbers are something we will continue to focus on. The key will be the fit, compatibility, the competitive opportunities and the fiscal responsibility.”

Clark said he expects new members to be secured by the end of this summer.

“It’s a conference that’s been around for a long time,” Clark said. “I think it will continue to be around for a very long time. The key to that is the people working openly with each other. We value the diversity in the league, and I think that will continue.”


http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20130508/SPORTS/305080067/Furman-athletic-director-confident-SoCon-s-future

Public statement that they aren't going anywhere? That's the final straw. They leave Monday.

http://iaanhughes.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/colts-moving.jpg

[Sandlapper Spike]

Right now, the CAA looks much more volatile as a football conference than the SoCon, and I expect that in the next 5 years there will be another big shakeup there...



Or maybe in the next three weeks...

[rokamortis]

Or maybe in the next three weeks...

What do you believe will happen in the next 3 weeks?

[Sandlapper Spike]

Maybe nothing. Probably nothing...but let's just say I am now going to be watching what happens after the CAA baseball tournament is over, as it is the last championship event on that league's 2012-13 calendar.

[AppMan]

Furman's going no where.

Furman athletic director confident in SoCon's future

May 9, 2013

Still, Furman athletics director Gary Clark is confident the SoCon’s resilience will endure again.

“That’s always been a part of the SoCon’s history,” Clark said. “The names and cast members have constantly changed, but it’s the cooperative, positive attitude and commitment when people are members that have allowed it to survive.”

“It’s more of a discussion of what’s the right fit and what makes sense,” Clark said. “I don’t think the numbers are something we will continue to focus on. The key will be the fit, compatibility, the competitive opportunities and the fiscal responsibility.”

Clark said he expects new members to be secured by the end of this summer.

“It’s a conference that’s been around for a long time,” Clark said. “I think it will continue to be around for a very long time. The key to that is the people working openly with each other. We value the diversity in the league, and I think that will continue.”


http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20130508/SPORTS/305080067/Furman-athletic-director-confident-SoCon-s-future

The more appropriate statement is... Furman has no where to go.

[DoWe]

The more appropriate statement is... Furman has no where to go.
Agreed. Furman is in turmoil at every level right now.

[walliver]

One thing I find interesting is that the SunBelt has not announced their WKU replacement. Is JMU still in the mix despite public comment to the contrary? A CAA without JMU might be less attractive to Elon.

[CID1990]

One thing I find interesting is that the SunBelt has not announced their WKU replacement. Is JMU still in the mix despite public comment to the contrary? A CAA without JMU might be less attractive to Elon.

You are probably correct, but if the Elon admin is really thinking objectively, is the CAA containing a JMU with a stated intention of moving up any better?


Sent from the center of the universe.

[Saint3333]

One thing I find interesting is that the SunBelt has not announced their WKU replacement. Is JMU still in the mix despite public comment to the contrary? A CAA without JMU might be less attractive to Elon.

JMU appears to be following the App St. model of holding out hope for CUSA as we did last year. I expect them or Mo. St. To join the Sun Belt after July and officially start 7/1/15.

[superman7515]

http://www.thetimesnews.com/sports/elon-sports/with-caa-expressing-interest-elon-weighs-options-on-league-affiliation-1.141938


The Colonial Athletic Association has approached Elon University in conversations that could lead to the Phoenix leaving the Southern Conference.

No invitation has been extended to join the CAA, which stretches from UNC Wilmington to Northeastern in Boston among its full-time membership — and even further north to Maine in football.

But Elon is doing more than listening, with dialogue on the subject intensifying around campus and school leaders investigating the ramifications of such a move.

“Elon is looking at its conference affiliation and evaluating what is in the best long-term interest of the university,” school spokesman Dan Anderson said. “It’s important for us to keep all of our constituents apprised of the fact that the university is looking at this seriously.

“We’re looking at all the options that might be available to the university, which schools might be in which conferences. That takes some time to study and to think through, and we’re going through that process now.”

That process has included Elon president Leo Lambert presenting and discussing the matter at the school’s May faculty meeting. Lambert also conducted a similar get-together with the school’s student government association.

Elon athletics director Dave Blank met with the school’s student-athlete advisory committee, a group comprised of two representatives from each of the Phoenix’s 17 teams.

Those fact-finding talks, as Blank termed them, delved into, among other things, the unsettled nature of the Southern Conference, which is losing College of Charleston to the CAA this summer and Appalachian State (to the Sun Belt), Georgia Southern (to the Sun Belt) and Davidson (to the Atlantic 10) after the 2013-14 academic year.....
.
.
.
.

Mercer, East Tennessee State and Virginia Military Institute are the top candidates on the Southern Conference’s list of possible additions. Sources have deemed Mercer a veritable lock to be invited to join the league, while opinions remain split on East Tennessee State and VMI, according to sources.

[MplsBison]

http://www.thetimesnews.com/sports/elon-sports/with-caa-expressing-interest-elon-weighs-options-on-league-affiliation-1.141938


.
.
.
.

Wouldn't it be a funny scenario if Elon joined the CAA, then JMU leaves for FBS, which then causes William & Mary and Richmond (in football) to return to the Southern Conf?

[Sitting Bull]

Wouldn't it be a funny scenario if Elon joined the CAA, then JMU leaves for FBS, which then causes William & Mary and Richmond (in football) to return to the Southern Conf?

JMU will leave, everyone including Elon knows that.

W&M is not leaving the CAA, a conference they helped create, to go to a Southern Conference that is dissolving further south.

It would be funny if Richmond joined.

[DFW HOYA]

W&M is not leaving the CAA, a conference they helped create, to go to a Southern Conference that is dissolving further south. It would be funny if Richmond joined.

Funnier still, the Southern merges with the CAA and keeps the SoCon name.

[MplsBison]

JMU will leave, everyone including Elon knows that.

W&M is not leaving the CAA, a conference they helped create, to go to a Southern Conference that is dissolving further south.

It would be funny if Richmond joined.

W&M helped create the ECAC South in 1979. It's basically them and James Madison left now.

True that Towson did come back, but as part of the group that Delaware brought with them when it took over the CAA and made it into the Delaware conference.


If JMU leaves, I don't see why W&M wouldn't consider returning to the SoCon.

[Sitting Bull]

If JMU leaves, I don't see why W&M wouldn't consider returning to the SoCon.

Because the CAA fits our footprint much better (about a third of our student base and alumni come from north of Virginia), Delaware is a key rival and the CAA is just a stronger conference, basketball and football. I would see us going Patriot before So Con but that's not happening either.

[henfan]

Elon would be a much better add across all sports than would a school like Davidson, which is the direction the league wanted to go in. Not a bad choice at all.xthumbsupx

[MplsBison]

Because the CAA fits our footprint much better (about a third of our student base and alumni come from north of Virginia), Delaware is a key rival and the CAA is just a stronger conference, basketball and football. I would see us going Patriot before So Con but that's not happening either.

What if Delaware leaves too? (FBS)

This:

Towson, Drexel, W&M, UNC-W, CoC , Hofstra, Northeastern and say Stony Brook and Albany


Are stronger in football and basketball than:

Citidel, Furman, Chatty, West Carolina, Wofford, UNC-G, Samford, ETSU, Mercer


???

[CID1990]

What if Delaware leaves too? (FBS)

This:

Towson, Drexel, W&M, UNC-W, CoC , Hofstra, Northeastern and say Stony Brook and Albany


Are stronger in football and basketball than:

Citidel, Furman, Chatty, West Carolina, Wofford, UNC-G, Samford, ETSU, Mercer


???

EVERYBODY is stronger in basketball than that bottom group. Even with Mercer and ETSU.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[MplsBison]

OK fair enough.

Is W&M a big basketball school?? I don't really know, to be honest. But I assume football is more important, in which case the SoCon would probably be a better match for them than the CAA without JMU and Delaware.

I have to imagine they have a decent amount of Alumni in the Charlotte and Atlanta areas.

[Sandlapper Spike]

OK fair enough.

Is W&M a big basketball school?? I don't really know, to be honest. But I assume football is more important, in which case the SoCon would probably be a better match for them than the CAA without JMU and Delaware.

I have to imagine they have a decent amount of Alumni in the Charlotte and Atlanta areas.

I think it would be fair to characterize W&M as a "football first and second" school. Basketball is not a historically strong sport for the Tribe.

[DFW HOYA]

William & Mary is one of five Div. I schools that have never made the NCAA basketball tournament throughout its 75 year history. The five: Northwestern, Army, The Citadel, W&M, and St. Francis NY.

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/fandom/post/_/id/19449/ncaa-tournaments-un-fab-five-are-0-for-75

[ccd494]

William & Mary is one of five Div. I schools that have never made the NCAA basketball tournament throughout its 75 year history. The five: Northwestern, Army, The Citadel, W&M, and St. Francis NY.

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/fandom/post/_/id/19449/ncaa-tournaments-un-fab-five-are-0-for-75

Maine and UNH should be on that list too.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Maine and UNH should be on that list too.

They have been D-1 since 1962. Honorary (dishonorary?) members of The Forgotten Five. I know way too much about this subject, unfortunately...

[MplsBison]

Right.

So as I was saying...wouldn't the SoCon be a better match for W&M (and Richmond) football than the CAA without JMU and Delaware?

The only mid-atlantic game left for both would be Towson. Everyone else is in the northeast. Same goes for basketball except including Drexel and then games down south anyway in Charleston and Wilmington.


Both were historically members of the SoCon. I don't see what the problem is for some W&M fans.


Sure, Patriot League is an option. I won't deny that and that's fine. But there you'll have to deal with the AQ. That will limit recruiting options.

[MplsBison]

Whoops, I did miss one thing being that Villanova is still a mid-atlantic game for both W&M and Richmond. (Philly is mid-atlantic, right?)


But now the rumor (from another AGS thread) is that Hofstra is off to the MAAC and Villanova football will move to the Patriot. Seems like the CAA is dying faster all the time...

[WMTribe90]

Right.

So as I was saying...wouldn't the SoCon be a better match for W&M (and Richmond) football than the CAA without JMU and Delaware?

The only mid-atlantic game left for both would be Towson. Everyone else is in the northeast. Same goes for basketball except including Drexel and then games down south anyway in Charleston and Wilmington.


Both were historically members of the SoCon. I don't see what the problem is for some W&M fans.


Sure, Patriot League is an option. I won't deny that and that's fine. But there you'll have to deal with the AQ. That will limit recruiting options.

WM will likely stick with CAA Football as long as UD and UR are members. I don't see WM returning to the SoCon unless UR moves with us. Vast majority of our out-of-state students come from points north of VA, including the majority of our OOS football players. WM would much prefer the CAA pull in one or two current SoCon football schools and stay where we are.

PL membership is an option, but many assume its a no brainer just because we have high academics, but the similarities pretty much end there. WM is a public school committed to playing at the highest possible level in FCS. WM would want/need the PL to offer redshirts, spring football, full 63 scholarships, and tweak/do-away with the AI before membership would make sense for us.

Personally, I'd be quite content if the CAA could add Elon (all sports) and one other southern football member (affiliate or full). With JMU presumed departure that would leave:

North

UNH
Main
URI
Albany
SBU
Villanova

South

WM
UR
UD
Towson
Elon
TBD (Coastal?)

Strong conference with reasonable travel even with loss of JMU and ODU.

[WMTribe90]

Whoops, I did miss one thing being that Villanova is still a mid-atlantic game for both W&M and Richmond. (Philly is mid-atlantic, right?)


But now the rumor (from another AGS thread) is that Hofstra is off to the MAAC and Villanova football will move to the Patriot. Seems like the CAA is dying faster all the time...

Hofstra to the MAAC wouldn't hurt CAA football, even if the rumor were true. I've seen not one once of support to date for the VU to PL rumor. Must be the same source as the WM to PL rumor. Not saying VU wouldn't do it, but internet rumors are often just that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

WM would want/need the PL to offer redshirts, spring football, full 63 scholarships, and tweak/do-away with the AI before membership would make sense for us.

They do offer spring football, and allow 60 scholarships (which IMO is pretty minor drop from 63). But for the other stuff, interesting.

[WMTribe90]

They do offer spring football, and allow 60 scholarships (which IMO is pretty minor drop from 63). But for the other stuff, interesting.

My mistake on Spring football. That was not the case when I was being recruited by PL and CAA schools in the mid 90's, if my memory is correct. If, like WM, you are currently running a financially sustainable football program and funding the max 63 scholarships, there is no incentive to drop even three of them. Especially in FCS, where you can offer half schollies. Why stop 3 short of the full allowable number anyway?

[Sandlapper Spike]

How much would being a public school affect William & Mary's ability to conform to the AI? I was wondering more along the lines of minimum regulations/requirements for in-state students being accepted rather than the overall quality of the school's student body.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How much would being a public school affect William & Mary's ability to conform to the AI? I was wondering more along the lines of minimum regulations/requirements for in-state students being accepted rather than the overall quality of the school's student body.

I've talked about this before in a blog post in regards to New Hampshire if they ever chose to join the PL. William & Mary would probably require their own analysis since my solution for UNH (just use the AI for out-of-state kids) wouldn't fly in the recruiting-rich state of VA.

[MplsBison]

WM will likely stick with CAA Football as long as UD and UR are members. I don't see WM returning to the SoCon unless UR moves with us. Vast majority of our out-of-state students come from points north of VA, including the majority of our OOS football players. WM would much prefer the CAA pull in one or two current SoCon football schools and stay where we are.

PL membership is an option, but many assume its a no brainer just because we have high academics, but the similarities pretty much end there. WM is a public school committed to playing at the highest possible level in FCS. WM would want/need the PL to offer redshirts, spring football, full 63 scholarships, and tweak/do-away with the AI before membership would make sense for us.

Personally, I'd be quite content if the CAA could add Elon (all sports) and one other southern football member (affiliate or full). With JMU presumed departure that would leave:

North

UNH
Main
URI
Albany
SBU
Villanova

South

WM
UR
UD
Towson
Elon
TBD (Coastal?)

Strong conference with reasonable travel even with loss of JMU and ODU.

But without Delaware and Villanova (and assuming WM and Richmond are linked regardless) you're playing Towson in Baltimore and America East schools in NE. Not that those AE football schools aren't good or won't be competitive, but it's not the same region and not where your players come from.

Looking at your roster, it's true the most non-Virginia players seem to come from Penn, Maryland and New Jersey...but none from New England. And there is a small but significant number from Georgia.

Is playing at Towson every other year going to satisfy that?


Now certainly if Nova goes to the Patriot League, then indeed maybe that is a better place for WM given that you can be full scholarship with spring practice (per LFN's post). Redshirts are over rated in my opinion, but I don't see that being a deal breaker.

The potential deal breaker is the AI, which they won't give up. You might have to settle for something like a scheduling alliance with the PL, meaning you can't get the auto-bid but at least you don't have to schedule 11 games every year.


Or you can consider the SoCon.

[MplsBison]

Hofstra to the MAAC wouldn't hurt CAA football, even if the rumor were true. I've seen not one once of support to date for the VU to PL rumor. Must be the same source as the WM to PL rumor. Not saying VU wouldn't do it, but internet rumors are often just that.

Hofstra to MAAC just means that CAA bball league could be crumbling, with Northeastern and Drexel potentially bailing after Hofstra. None of those play football (anymore) so yes obviously it doesn't affect the Yankee/A10/CAA/AE? football conf.

Just gives even less reason for the CAA to continue existing.

JMU, Delaware leaving is a huge blow and then you start the crumbling of Hofstra/NE/Drexel leaving on bball side and Nova leaving on football side.

[Tribe4SF]

But without Delaware and Villanova (and assuming WM and Richmond are linked regardless) you're playing Towson in Baltimore and America East schools in NE. Not that those AE football schools aren't good or won't be competitive, but it's not the same region and not where your players come from.

Looking at your roster, it's true the most non-Virginia players seem to come from Penn, Maryland and New Jersey...but none from New England. And there is a small but significant number from Georgia.

Is playing at Towson every other year going to satisfy that?


Now certainly if Nova goes to the Patriot League, then indeed maybe that is a better place for WM given that you can be full scholarship with spring practice (per LFN's post). Redshirts are over rated in my opinion, but I don't see that being a deal breaker.

The potential deal breaker is the AI, which they won't give up. You might have to settle for something like a scheduling alliance with the PL, meaning you can't get the auto-bid but at least you don't have to schedule 11 games every year.


Or you can consider the SoCon.

Pure nonsense. The CAA Football league will remain strong.

Redshirts at W&M are a big deal. Heavy recruitment of walk-ons, with strong history of them earning scholarships. Guys who frequently forego other opportunities for a W&M education, and the chance to earn a sholarship. Without redshirting, the whole sales package breaks down. Payton Award winner Lang Campbell, and All-American Adrian Tracy would never have enrolled as walk-ons without redshirting. Same for one of last year's captains, all-CAA Jabrel Mines.

[MplsBison]

Walk ons and redshirting have nothing to do with each other.

Yes, I'm sure the following sales pitch works very well on most recruits: "come work really hard in practice for an entire year without ever having a chance to play!"


Anyway, I meant it probably isn't a deal breaker for the league to allow schools to redshirt if they choose. It has nothing to do with any academic measure.

[WMTribe90]

But without Delaware and Villanova (and assuming WM and Richmond are linked regardless) you're playing Towson in Baltimore and America East schools in NE. Not that those AE football schools aren't good or won't be competitive, but it's not the same region and not where your players come from.

Looking at your roster, it's true the most non-Virginia players seem to come from Penn, Maryland and New Jersey...but none from New England. And there is a small but significant number from Georgia.

Is playing at Towson every other year going to satisfy that?


Now certainly if Nova goes to the Patriot League, then indeed maybe that is a better place for WM given that you can be full scholarship with spring practice (per LFN's post). Redshirts are over rated in my opinion, but I don't see that being a deal breaker.

The potential deal breaker is the AI, which they won't give up. You might have to settle for something like a scheduling alliance with the PL, meaning you can't get the auto-bid but at least you don't have to schedule 11 games every year.


Or you can consider the SoCon.

Obviously, if VU and UD leave the CAA it will change my and WM's calculus, but as of today both are in the CAA and I've seen nothing credible that suggest either is close to leaving at this time. The what if scenarios are virtually unlimited in this age of conference realignment. However, if UD, JMU and VU all leave the CAA, then yes, I imagine UR and WM will either both go to the PL of both go (back) to the SoCon.

Redshirts are a very big deal. Few true freshmen are ready to play their first year on campus and huge gains are made in knowledge of the system and in the weight room during the first year. WM would put itself at a competitive disadvantage every time we played an FCS or FBS opponent outside of the PL.

[WMTribe90]

Hofstra to MAAC just means that CAA bball league could be crumbling, with Northeastern and Drexel potentially bailing after Hofstra. None of those play football (anymore) so yes obviously it doesn't affect the Yankee/A10/CAA/AE? football conf.

Just gives even less reason for the CAA to continue existing.

JMU, Delaware leaving is a huge blow and then you start the crumbling of Hofstra/NE/Drexel leaving on bball side and Nova leaving on football side.

I know you and other on here get your jollies predicting the demise of the CAA, but there is zero credible back-up to the internet rumors that every CAA school is half-way out the door. JMU is the lone exception, and its less than certain that they will leave (even though they want to) because the financials might not support a potential move to FBS.

[Tribe4SF]

Walk ons and redshirting have nothing to do with each other.

Yes, I'm sure the following sales pitch works very well on most recruits: "come work really hard in practice for an entire year without ever having a chance to play!"


Anyway, I meant it probably isn't a deal breaker for the league to allow schools to redshirt if they choose. It has nothing to do with any academic measure.

Oh gosh, I forgot you're an expert on how W&M operates, and on why redshirting is distasteful to the PL. Forgive my impertinance.

[MplsBison]

Oh gosh, I forgot you're an expert on how W&M operates, and on why redshirting is distasteful to the PL. Forgive my impertinance.

If you'd like to elaborate on specifically why you think redshirting and walk ons are linked, I'd be happy to entertain that conversation. I said nothing on "how W&M operates".

[MplsBison]

Obviously, if VU and UD leave the CAA it will change my and WM's calculus, but as of today both are in the CAA and I've seen nothing credible that suggest either is close to leaving at this time. The what if scenarios are virtually unlimited in this age of conference realignment. However, if UD, JMU and VU all leave the CAA, then yes, I imagine UR and WM will either both go to the PL of both go (back) to the SoCon.

Redshirts are a very big deal. Few true freshmen are ready to play their first year on campus and huge gains are made in knowledge of the system and in the weight room during the first year. WM would put itself at a competitive disadvantage every time we played an FCS or FBS opponent outside of the PL.

As I said in the other post, what I meant was that it shouldn't be a deal breaker for the deal to allow redshirting to members that want to do that.

Are you implying that only a redshirted freshman can make gains in knowledge and strength during their first year?

Because that would be a blunder.

[MplsBison]

I know you and other on here get your jollies predicting the demise of the CAA, but there is zero credible back-up to the internet rumors that every CAA school is half-way out the door. JMU is the lone exception, and its less than certain that they will leave (even though they want to) because the financials might not support a potential move to FBS.

If we can speculate for the fun of it -- what is the point of AGS? To post links to articles? That's what Google News is for.

Don't be obtuse.


And yes, my main motivations for the most part in these SoCon and CAA conversations are:

1) getting back at the CAA for taking the America East teams that Delaware stole

and

2) preventing Elon from leaving the SoCon.


:)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yes, I'm sure the following sales pitch works very well on most recruits: "come work really hard in practice for an entire year without ever having a chance to play!"

I dunno. It works pretty well at Alabama, Arkansas, or any Division I school with redshirting.

For that matter, there are plenty of kids who pay their first year at Lehigh and "walk on" and earn a way on the team.

[Sitting Bull]

OK fair enough.

Is W&M a big basketball school?? I don't really know, to be honest. But I assume football is more important, in which case the SoCon would probably be a better match for them than the CAA without JMU and Delaware.

I have to imagine they have a decent amount of Alumni in the Charlotte and Atlanta areas.

You aren't grasping this.

We pull 35 percent of our student body from outside Virginia. The overwhelming majority are from the northeast. We get very few students from south of Virginia.

Our largest alumni clubs outside Virginia are Philadelphia and New York.

That's why the CAA works for us. You can make up all the fantasies you want, there will always be a strong fcs-CAA option in the mid Atlantic up thru New England.

[fc97]

You aren't grasping this.

We pull 35 percent of our student body from outside Virginia. The overwhelming majority are from the northeast. We get very few students from south of Virginia.

Our largest alumni clubs outside Virginia are Philadelphia and New York.

That's why the CAA works for us. You can make up all the fantasies you want, there will always be a strong fcs-CAA option in the mid Atlantic up thru New England.

like elon who's biggest alumni bases outside the triad and triangle are balt/sc, philly, nyc and boston

[The Cats]

like elon who's biggest alumni bases outside the triad and triangle are balt/sc, philly, nyc and boston

By all means, that justifies your movement to the CAA. Good Luck in your new home. I just hope it opens the door for CCU to replace you guys.

[MplsBison]

I dunno. It works pretty well at Alabama, Arkansas, or any Division I school with redshirting.

For that matter, there are plenty of kids who pay their first year at Lehigh and "walk on" and earn a way on the team.

What does that have to do with redshirting??

Do you guys even know what you're talking about? It's ok if you don't, there is a lot of misconception out there.

[MplsBison]

You aren't grasping this.

We pull 35 percent of our student body from outside Virginia. The overwhelming majority are from the northeast. We get very few students from south of Virginia.

Our largest alumni clubs outside Virginia are Philadelphia and New York.

That's why the CAA works for us. You can make up all the fantasies you want, there will always be a strong fcs-CAA option in the mid Atlantic up thru New England.

I don't think Philadelphia qualifies as the Northeast any more than DC or Baltimore does. NYC, I'm not sure but probably close enough. What about up in Maine, New Hampshire and Albany? A lot of WM alumni there??

If your concern is making nice with your Philadelphia alumni, does the Patriot League make the most sense of any conference??


There will always be a strong conference in the NE, for the America East schools + Towson (as long as they keep football). The Mid-Atlantic FCS league appears to be the Patriot.

[MplsBison]

like elon who's biggest alumni bases outside the triad and triangle are balt/sc, philly, nyc and boston

Because 5% of your alumni live there - therefore they are technically your largest outside the Carolinas?

Really, nothing in Atlanta? I'd love to see the actual figures.


Moot point nonetheless. Your school is located in the Carolinas, no matter how hard you try. Therefore you belong in a Carolina league.

[dgtw]

Why stop 3 short of the full allowable number anyway?

So you can say you aren't a football factory because you don't give all the scholarships the other schools do. You can claim to be above the fray when you really aren't doing anything special.

[MplsBison]

Well what's the point of offering anywhere near the maximum if you aren't going to be nationally competitive (FCS playoffs) anyway?? To play an FBS team each year? Whoopity doo.

Why pay for full-cost football that doesn't get you anything?

[Sitting Bull]

I don't think Philadelphia qualifies as the Northeast any more than DC or Baltimore does. NYC, I'm not sure but probably close enough. What about up in Maine, New Hampshire and Albany? A lot of WM alumni there??

If your concern is making nice with your Philadelphia alumni, does the Patriot League make the most sense of any conference??


There will always be a strong conference in the NE, for the America East schools + Towson (as long as they keep football). The Mid-Atlantic FCS league appears to be the Patriot.

Wow, Philadelphia is not in the Northeast? NY, maybe?

You stoop to some ridiculous assertions to back up these ridiculous opinions.

[MplsBison]

Ah yes, a great and typical fallacy - an AGS special, if you will -- attack the least relevant point in a group of points, particularly one that has basically no bearing on the rest of the points and use it to dismiss the entire argument.

Got to love internet message boards and the special kinds of arguments that can only be concocted on them.


But I'll even address your silly post.

OK, I'll admit I made a bit of a boo boo as I said Northeast but was thinking New England - you'll at least give me that both are "NE".


EVEN THEN, Philadelphia is on the extreme southern border of what the US Census Bureau defines as the "Northeast United States" which is basically everything north and east of Maryland and Delaware. Philly is right on the southern border my friend, hardly the namesake of the entire region.

And New England, which is what I was thinking of in my mind (not Northeast) does in fact also not include New York. It starts at Connecticut and goes north and east from there.

So...take that for what it's worth.

[Sitting Bull]

Ah yes, a great and typical fallacy - an AGS special, if you will -- attack the least relevant point in a group of points, particularly one that has basically no bearing on the rest of the points and use it to dismiss the entire argument.

Got to love internet message boards and the special kinds of arguments that can only be concocted on them.


But I'll even address your silly post.

OK, I'll admit I made a bit of a boo boo as I said Northeast but was thinking New England - you'll at least give me that both are "NE".


EVEN THEN, Philadelphia is on the extreme southern border of what the US Census Bureau defines as the "Northeast United States" which is basically everything north and east of Maryland and Delaware. Philly is right on the southern border my friend, hardly the namesake of the entire region.

And New England, which is what I was thinking of in my mind (not Northeast) does in fact also not include New York. It starts at Connecticut and goes north and east from there.

So...take that for what it's worth.

All I have learned from this is how idiotic it sounds that a fan of ND State acts like he knows more about my Alma Mater than W&M fans who were only trying to give you some background.

You don't even know geography.

Stick to some stuff that may be even mildly insightful instead of a jackass who thinks he has all the answers.

[fc97]

By all means, that justifies your movement to the CAA. Good Luck in your new home. I just hope it opens the door for CCU to replace you guys.

we haven't left and you don't have to take it so personally.

[MplsBison]

All I have learned from this is how idiotic it sounds that a fan of ND State acts like he knows more about my Alma Mater than W&M fans who were only trying to give you some background.

You don't even know geography.

Stick to some stuff that may be even mildly insightful instead of a jackass who thinks he has all the answers.

This is what you said:

"Our largest alumni clubs outside Virginia are Philadelphia and New York.

That's why the CAA works for us. You can make up all the fantasies you want, there will always be a strong fcs-CAA option in the mid Atlantic up thru New England."


Note that it was actually you who specified New England. No wonder I had that on my mind.


My point is simply that the conference you so proudly speak of will in some way always be a vestigial of the Yankee Conference and therefore such a conference will always be a New England conference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_Conference

So how does having alumni centers in Philly and New York help you justify membership to such a conference??


Road trips to New Hampshire, Maine, Albany and Rhode Island certainly don't. Now true Stony Brook is on Long Island, so that will be nice for your alumni in NYC I suppose.

Take away Delaware and Villanova (along with JMU to boot) and the farthest north you get is Towson in Baltimore before jumping all the way up to Stony in NYC and then it's all New England from there.

[The Cats]

we haven't left and you don't have to take it so personally.

I don't think wishing you good luck is taking anything personally. I do however hope that CCU takes your place, that's not personal either, as Elon had the opportunity to stay in the SoCon.

[fc97]

Because 5% of your alumni live there - therefore they are technically your largest outside the Carolinas?

Really, nothing in Atlanta? I'd love to see the actual figures.


Moot point nonetheless. Your school is located in the Carolinas, no matter how hard you try. Therefore you belong in a Carolina league.

what the frak, why can't you go do your own net searches before you just make up ***** and post.

the main elon alumni club chapters:
http://www.elon.edu/e-web/alumni/Chapters/default.xhtml

you'll see a focus of NC and up the seaboard rather than to the south. when it comes to where the alumni are, a simple view of alumni page at elon shows 1) greensboro/winston-salem, 2) charlotte, 3) dc/baltimore, 4) phillidelphia, 5) boston as the largest concentrations of alumni.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_University
The student body is
25% NC
9% Mass
8% New Jersey
8% Maryland
7% Virginia
6% Penn
6% Conn
6% New York

Further from the alumni magazine
5% Ohio
5% Michigan
4% Illinois
2% DC

see a trend? 90% of the student body is from NC or North. So, let me do the math for you mplsbison, that's, 10% from, well the other 37 states and 48 counties.

it amazes me that a "person" such as yourself can sit in whereever you do, acting like you know everything about every school and obviously just make up stuff. it absolutely amazes me what you bother to post and how absolutely limiting your mind must be. i really feel bad for you.

now, i know what you're thinking. lets spit more hairs like you're doing with the w&m fan. but, let s be honest, if you wanted to sit and think about understanding things, then, you could put this together. does it really matter that stony brook is on long island for people living in the NY Metro? no, what matters is playing games in the area. cause its sure as heck closer to travel to albany from anywhere in the NE than it is playing all your games in the south.

but you know, i know it'll be hard to understand for you. the population of North Dakota is the size of a lot of east coast counties. when 2/3 of the population lives in on general area and when 90% of your alumni are in a small two state area, i don't expect you to understand anything about logistics in areas of the country that you only get to see on TV

[MplsBison]

Because it's just that easy for me to provoke the correct information from someone else.

Now I don't have to look it up. Thanks!


Of course, your alumni link doesn't give a shread of data as to the whereabouts of Elon alumni. Just because someone starts a club doesn't mean that a large portion of the alumni live there.

Nonetheless, if the wiki data is to be trusted then I can see - yes, in fact Elon decides to recruit students from north of North Carolina, for whatever reason.

It's too bad the school isn't actually located that way. But, it's not. It's a Carolina school.

[fc97]

its not wiki data you moron, it was contained there in the link.

just because you don't understand population dynamics, school tuition patterns and migratory patterns of the population on the east coast doesn't mean that your little pipe dream is a fact.

so, the real question is, why is a ndsu fan so obsessed with all this. this has nothing to do with ndsu, you, your school, your school's athletics or anything you seem to have any remote knowledge of?

[The Cats]

its not wiki data you moron, it was contained there in the link.

just because you don't understand population dynamics, school tuition patterns and migratory patterns of the population on the east coast doesn't mean that your little pipe dream is a fact.

so, the real question is, why is a ndsu fan so obsessed with all this. this has nothing to do with ndsu, you, your school, your school's athletics or anything you seem to have any remote knowledge of?


A little touchy today elon? Whats the problem, separation anxiety?

[fc97]

A little touchy today elon? Whats the problem, separation anxiety?

maybe :)

i guess i have a problem with a know-nothing like mplsbison coming in, running his mouth without knowing anything about at all.

[The Cats]

maybe :)

It's been awfully quite on the Elon board the last couple weeks.

Are you guys only talking on the private part of the board these days? Don't want the rest of us to know your secrets? I think most everyone has figured it out by now anyway. LOL

[fc97]

It's been awfully quite on the Elon board the last couple weeks.

Are you guys only talking on the private part of the board these days? Don't want the rest of us to know your secrets? I think most everyone has figured it out by now anyway. LOL

baseball was down so that hurt on traffic, btw, congrats on winning the conference. lots of discussions in the private areas. months ago it was big secrets, but like you said, its all in the open now. guess the threads could be moved.

[The Cats]

... btw, congrats on winning the conference.

Thanks.

They started out slow, but peaked at the right time. Coach Moranda would have been on the hot seat without a good season, as the Cats had underachieved since Todd Raleigh left for Tennessee.

[CID1990]

It's been awfully quite on the Elon board the last couple weeks.

Are you guys only talking on the private part of the board these days? Don't want the rest of us to know your secrets? I think most everyone has figured it out by now anyway. LOL

LOL dude. You surf everybody's boards don't you? Ours, Winthrop, Elon. You're like the William J. Donovan of small college message boards.

That thread on what a Winthrop fan thinks about SoCon football was especially funny.

[The Cats]

LOL dude. You surf everybody's boards don't you? Ours, Winthrop, Elon. You're like the William J. Donovan of small college message boards.

That thread on what a Winthrop fan thinks about SoCon football was especially funny.

Those Winthrop fans are in left field, that's for sure, I thought most would get a kick out of that link.

I do regularly read most of the SoCon boards, and I grew up just north of Charlotte, so I have a passing interest in keeping up with the area schools (Davidson, UNCC, Winthrop, and the NC ACC schools).

[walliver]

LOL dude. You surf everybody's boards don't you? Ours, Winthrop, Elon. You're like the William J. Donovan of small college message boards.

That thread on what a Winthrop fan thinks about SoCon football was especially funny.

"Winthrop fan" and "thinks" should never be in the same sentence.

[asumike83]

"Winthrop fan" and "thinks" should never be in the same sentence.

Hell, I'm not sure I've ever heard just "Winthrop" and "fan" in the same sentence.

[Apphole]

Those Winthrop fans are in left field, that's for sure.

Western fans, especially in mass on delphi, are the most "out in left field" group I've ever had the displeasure of reading. There's an 80 post thread about boycotting the ASU game this year xlolx.

[PaladinFan]

Wow, Philadelphia is not in the Northeast? NY, maybe?

You stoop to some ridiculous assertions to back up these ridiculous opinions.

Brother, I'm from South Georgia. The Northeast covers pretty much everything north of Knoxville and east of the Mississippi.

[The Cats]

Western fans, especially in mass on delphi, are the most "out in left field" group I've ever had the displeasure of reading. There's an 80 post thread about boycotting the ASU game this year xlolx.

You are not telling everyone what caused the Catamount fans to act that way.

If ASU fans would have stayed off the pride board, it would be a totally different board. Since both ASU and WCU were both on Delphi, it was so easy for the ASU fans to just click over to the Pride board. Many of your friends (and maybe even you), on an almost daily basis, came to their board and harassed the Catamount fans.

The ASU fans were always stirring the pot, then going back to the ASU board to talk about how crazy the Catamount fans are, just like you did above. Many, if not most times, there would be more ASU fans posting on the Pride board than Catamount fans - just trolling along.

Why the board moderator never corrected this, I'll never understand. I guess he cared more about board activity than what was actually being posted. The ASU moderator controlled WCU posters coming to the ASU board by banning many and setting up the WCU posters to be reviewed, before their post was displayed. I know of only one ASU poster that was ever banned from the Pride board.

I still read the pride board, but don't post there anymore, and there's still 5 or 6 hard core ASU fans that have continued with the tradition of trolling on the board, even though the MMB has moved off delphi in August of last year. It used to upset me the way ASU posters would overwhelm the board, but now I just laugh about it now, because the Cat fans continue to put up with the harassment, so, I guess in some way those that continue to post there, must like it.


However, all that's past. So, good luck in the Sun Belt, no reason to dislike ASU now. We've still got one last football game, maybe we'll surprise you.

[PAllen]

I don't think Philadelphia qualifies as the Northeast any more than DC or Baltimore does. NYC, I'm not sure but probably close enough. What about up in Maine, New Hampshire and Albany? A lot of WM alumni there??

New England - No

Northeast - Yes

Baltimore is pretty much the northern limit of the mid-atlantic (maybe Havre de Grace or York)

Saying NY isn't in the northeast is like saying N. Dakota isn't in the North. I mean, it is South of Canada right?

[whoanellie]

This appears to be the highth of a clandestine discussion like a chess master being 5 moves ahead. This just might be the cause of the latest lull in the rumblings. If I were Dave Blank I would have already investigated those possibilities.


Wouldn't it be a funny scenario if Elon joined the CAA, then JMU leaves for FBS, which then causes William & Mary and Richmond (in football) to return to the Southern Conf?

[ElonFirefighter]

I'm sure blank has looked at it from every angle, but the waters these days are rough and no one knows what will happen.

[CID1990]

I think that anyone looking to move to the CAA should do so under the assumption that JMU won't be there a whole lot longer. Not much of a consideration for non football schools like cofc, but Elon will be looking at the football landscape.

[ASUMountaineer]

I think that anyone looking to move to the CAA should do so under the assumption that JMU won't be there a whole lot longer. Not much of a consideration for non football schools like cofc, but Elon will be looking at the football landscape.

Will the football be much different than the SoCon? Obviously, the travel costs would increase, but I'm referring to the level of play.

[phoenix3]

I think that anyone looking to move to the CAA should do so under the assumption that JMU won't be there a whole lot longer. Not much of a consideration for non football schools like cofc, but Elon will be looking at the football landscape.

CAA - JMU & Villanova > SoCon - APP & GaSo, IMO.

[CID1990]

Will the football be much different than the SoCon? Obviously, the travel costs would increase, but I'm referring to the level of play.

If JMU is the only one to leave, not really. But there has been a lot of speculation that a JMU departure would make the conference much more volatile in terms of their membership (for football). Personally, if I were looking to move I would wait and see how that shakes out in the next two years. Staying put is an option just like everything else.

I understand that if the alumni demographics are slanted to the north that this is at least fanbase motivation to move. But at the end of the day it doesn't really help you as a school. It might slightly help ticket sales for your opponents in their venues, but that's about it.

The CAA commish has been stroking SoCon schools for years. They even recently floated what would be a de facto merger in this past decade. That said, I think they are moving on Elon as a replacement for JMU. If JMU does in fact leave, I don't see the CAA's northern schools being more than "meh" about the addition. A school in NC would definitely be forward looking for the CAA, though.

On a side note (speaking of NC schools and the FCS)- I have heard the occasional rumor that Campbell could get a look by the SoCon, but that would be contingent on them moving to scholarship football like Mercer. If they did, they would be a good replacement for Elon. I haven't looked at their AD numbers to be very well informed on their ability to make that move, though. Regardless, even with hapless football they would be a better choice than UNC-A.

[CID1990]

CAA - JMU & Villanova > SoCon - APP & GaSo, IMO.

SoCon - Elon > SoCon + Elon




























Just kidding- couldn't resist.

[ElonFirefighter]

If JMU is the only one to leave, not really. But there has been a lot of speculation that a JMU departure would make the conference much more volatile in terms of their membership (for football). Personally, if I were looking to move I would wait and see how that shakes out in the next two years. Staying put is an option just like everything else.

I understand that if the alumni demographics are slanted to the north that this is at least fanbase motivation to move. But at the end of the day it doesn't really help you as a school. It might slightly help ticket sales for your opponents in their venues, but that's about it.

The CAA commish has been stroking SoCon schools for years. They even recently floated what would be a de facto merger in this past decade. That said, I think they are moving on Elon as a replacement for JMU. If JMU does in fact leave, I don't see the CAA's northern schools being more than "meh" about the addition. A school in NC would definitely be forward looking for the CAA, though.

On a side note (speaking of NC schools and the FCS)- I have heard the occasional rumor that Campbell could get a look by the SoCon, but that would be contingent on them moving to scholarship football like Mercer. If they did, they would be a good replacement for Elon. I haven't looked at their AD numbers to be very well informed on their ability to make that move, though. Regardless, even with hapless football they would be a better choice than UNC-A.

It's not an alumni move, over 50% of our students come from there. It to get our name seen up there on a every day basis and increase academic enrollment.

[CID1990]

It's not an alumni move, over 50% of our students come from there. It to get our name seen up there on a every day basis and increase academic enrollment.

Two things:

1) If over 50% of your students come from "up there", then obviously you aren't having problems with academic enrollment "up there".

2) The Cats (and others) have told us all that "academics" are not a concern in conference affiliations. It's all about athletics, and nothing more! Get with the program.

xsmiley_wix

[The Cats]

The Cats (and others) have told us all that "academics" are not a concern in conference affiliations. It's all about athletics, and nothing more! Get with the program.

xsmiley_wix

There you go putting words in my mouth.

I never said that it's all about athletics and nothing more. I only pushed for CCU and their academics are not in the toilet as you seem to imply. While they have strides to make in that area, they are improving. I did say, CCU's movement to the SoCon would be a good motivator for them to continued improvement in that area.

[MplsBison]

CAA - JMU & Villanova > SoCon - APP & GaSo, IMO.

Not if Delaware, W&M and Richmond also leave.

[CID1990]

There you go putting words in my mouth.

I never said that it's all about athletics and nothing more. I only pushed for CCU and their academics are not in the toilet as you seem to imply. While they have strides to make in that area, they are improving. I did say, CCU's movement to the SoCon would be a good motivator for them to continued improvement in that area.

You agreed with thirdgendin when he posted this:

"I don't know if CCU being a SC school is the primary reason at all. A lot of the opposition has had to do with the type of school CCU is perceived to be (NCAA trouble at times, perception of poor academics, etc.), and there has historically been a lot of opposition due to some hard feelings from recruiting lies that were told in the middle of the last decade - a lot having to do with ASU, I believe."

Remember?

But all that aside... you bit within 5 minutes of my post- you beat the spread!

[ASUMountaineer]

If JMU is the only one to leave, not really. But there has been a lot of speculation that a JMU departure would make the conference much more volatile in terms of their membership (for football). Personally, if I were looking to move I would wait and see how that shakes out in the next two years. Staying put is an option just like everything else.

I understand that if the alumni demographics are slanted to the north that this is at least fanbase motivation to move. But at the end of the day it doesn't really help you as a school. It might slightly help ticket sales for your opponents in their venues, but that's about it.

The CAA commish has been stroking SoCon schools for years. They even recently floated what would be a de facto merger in this past decade. That said, I think they are moving on Elon as a replacement for JMU. If JMU does in fact leave, I don't see the CAA's northern schools being more than "meh" about the addition. A school in NC would definitely be forward looking for the CAA, though.

On a side note (speaking of NC schools and the FCS)- I have heard the occasional rumor that Campbell could get a look by the SoCon, but that would be contingent on them moving to scholarship football like Mercer. If they did, they would be a good replacement for Elon. I haven't looked at their AD numbers to be very well informed on their ability to make that move, though. Regardless, even with hapless football they would be a better choice than UNC-A.

I agree. I don't know what Elon will do, but for them they have the ability to "wait-and-see" because the JMU has made no decision, and there's no chance for them to move to any other conference. So, they have that flexibility.

As to Campbell > UNCA...I couldn't agree more. While App State is leaving the SoCon, I'd hate to see the SoCon add to the associate members list.

[bostonspider]

Not if Delaware, W&M and Richmond also leave.

Where are we going?

[CID1990]

I agree. I don't know what Elon will do, but for them they have the ability to "wait-and-see" because the JMU has made no decision, and there's no chance for them to move to any other conference. So, they have that flexibility.

As to Campbell > UNCA...I couldn't agree more. While App State is leaving the SoCon, I'd hate to see the SoCon add to the associate members list.

If anything, I would prefer that we don't replace Davidson and cofc and just let UNCG read the writing on the wall.

[The Cats]

Remember?

But all that aside... you bit within 5 minutes of my post- you beat the spread!

Did you expect me to not respond to your putting out things as the truth, things I did not say?

...as far as a "perception of poor academics, etc." is not the same as actually having poor academics. CCU has made great strides in improving academics.

[SpiritCymbal]

Not if Delaware, W&M and Richmond also leave.

Hence why he said "CAA - JMU & Villanova" instead of "CAA - JMU, Villanova, Delaware, W&M and Richmond".

[Jiggs]

On a side note (speaking of NC schools and the FCS)- I have heard the occasional rumor that Campbell could get a look by the SoCon, but that would be contingent on them moving to scholarship football like Mercer. If they did, they would be a good replacement for Elon. I haven't looked at their AD numbers to be very well informed on their ability to make that move, though. Regardless, even with hapless football they would be a better choice than UNC-A.

FYI, the AD at Campbell is Bob Roller. He was the AD at Samford when it joined the SoCon.

[CID1990]

Did you expect me to not respond to your putting out things as the truth, things I did not say?

...as far as a "perception of poor academics, etc." is not the same as actually having poor academics. CCU has made great strides in improving academics.

Twist, spin

Considering it is your own modus operandi it certainly explains your panties getting in a bunch so quickly.

I can troll you up at will.

[MplsBison]

Where are we going?

If the CAA collapsed you'd go wherever W&M went, either Patriot (perhaps as a scheduling alliance only, bypassing the AI requirement) or back to the SoCon.

[ASUMountaineer]

If anything, I would prefer that we don't replace Davidson and cofc and just let UNCG read the writing on the wall.

Agreed.

[fc97]

Where are we going?

cause you know, you have to go where mr. no research tells you to go. no ifs ands or buts. just do it.

[Tribe4SF]

If the CAA collapsed you'd go wherever W&M went, either Patriot (perhaps as a scheduling alliance only, bypassing the AI requirement) or back to the SoCon.

Where will NDSU go if the MVFC collapses?

[walliver]

Where will NDSU go if the MVFC collapses?

The Big South is always looking for new members up north.

[MplsBison]

Where will NDSU go if the MVFC collapses?

That's exactly the point, though.

Most schools - perhaps all - in the MVFC have no where upwards to go. Just like in the Big Sky. Therefore if your members have nowhere upwards (FBS) to go and they're already members of a top FCS conference, then you don't have to worry about members leaving for FBS.


That's very much unlike the case in the CAA FC (Yankee) where JMU and Delaware could both leave for the MAC tomorrow if they wanted. Likewise, both W&M and Richmond have history in the SoCon and Villanova looks just like a Patriot school (even located in the right state). Granted the last two moves aren't upward, but if JMU, Delaware leave, Nova might leave and if those three leave WM and Richmond might leave right after that. The league can't add teams fast enough to stem a bullet to the aorta like that.

[Tribe4SF]

JMU and Delaware could both leave for the MAC tomorrow if they wanted.

Oh really? When did they get an invite, or even have meaningful discussions with the MAC?

[MplsBison]

Oh really? When did they get an invite, or even have meaningful discussions with the MAC?

Yesterday, obviously.

[fc97]

Oh really? When did they get an invite, or even have meaningful discussions with the MAC?

ignore him. elon or not, theres still enough upside to the caa compared to the socon, big south, aec and maac that the caa can do most anything they want.

the fact that they only went after davidson and charleston and got half of those; and then elon and albany and potentially have half of those doesn't mean the caa is taking it to the aorta. because, unlike what mplsbison says, there is nothing in print one way or another that points to anyone leaving other than jmu, which has been known for how long now?

[MplsBison]

Tribe, if you want to side with someone who purposefully chooses to ignore capitalization... you're welcome to that.

Just keep in mind that we're talking about two entirely separate things here. You have the CAA, which is descended from the ECAC South. Then you have the CAA FC, which is descended from the Yankee.

The Yankee conference could become a merger of the NEC and the America East football schools in the future. It won't be dead, but it won't be anything like what it was in 1996.

But that doesn't necessarily mean anything for the CAA itself.

[fc97]

Tribe, if you want to side with someone who purposefully chooses to ignore capitalization... you're welcome to that.

THIS explains everything, completely with capitalization and exclamation mark that requires the use of the shift key.

there are NO sides here. YOU don't have a say in the plans. YOU don't have a say in what the CAA is or becomes. YOU don't have a say in what happens with CAA FB. there are no sides. just because you THINK they belong in the socon doesnt make it so.

[MplsBison]

THIS explains everything, completely with capitalization and exclamation mark that requires the use of the shift key.

there are NO sides here. YOU don't have a say in the plans. YOU don't have a say in what the CAA is or becomes. YOU don't have a say in what happens with CAA FB. there are no sides. just because you THINK they belong in the socon doesnt make it so.

This is AGS, me ole' son. Take a chill pill. Sheesh.

Are you serious about not having a shift key? You need to get that fixed.

[MplsBison]

It would be interesting if the Yankee conference became this circa 2015:

Maine
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Bryant
Central Conn St
Sacred Heart
Duquesne
Robert Morris
St Francis (PA)
Wagner
Stony Brook
Albany


Be nice for Albany if Vermont would restart football. St Francis...no idea, maybe drop down to non-scholarship?

[fc97]

It would be interesting if the Yankee conference became this circa 2015:

Maine
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Bryant
Central Conn St
Sacred Heart
Duquesne
Robert Morris
St Francis (PA)
Wagner
Stony Brook
Albany


Be nice for Albany if Vermont would restart football. St Francis...no idea, maybe drop down to non-scholarship?

how does that benefit new hampshire, maine, stony brook and albany? how can you sit and justify that a group of schools from nearly no scholarship to max scholarship schools are going to somehow, out of nowhere, justify that they should sit at the same table together.

how can you sit and justify how the northeast and the south should set up conferences while ndsu, sdsu and und sit in two different conferences? why don't you start your own thread about consolidating the plains schools and rid us of your drivel here.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

how does that benefit new hampshire, maine, stony brook and albany? how can you sit and justify that a group of schools from nearly no scholarship to max scholarship schools are going to somehow, out of nowhere, justify that they should sit at the same table together.

how can you sit and justify how the northeast and the south should set up conferences while ndsu, sdsu and und sit in two different conferences? why don't you start your own thread about consolidating the plains schools and rid us of your drivel here.

Thank you fc97!!!

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

It would be interesting if the Yankee conference became this circa 2015:

Maine
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Bryant
Central Conn St
Sacred Heart
Duquesne
Robert Morris
St Francis (PA)
Wagner
Stony Brook
Albany


Be nice for Albany if Vermont would restart football. St Francis...no idea, maybe drop down to non-scholarship?

Interesting isn't the word I'd choose, nightmare is the first one that came to my mind. And I'm pretty confident that Albany isn't building their stadium to play in this league. Nor is Stony Brook planning their stadium enhancement to play in this league. From my UNH point of view, this league is better than just one thing -- no football! A bunch of small private schools with a very minimal history of participation in any sports with UNH who probably don't want to offer full scholarships.

You need to give up the idea of Vermont restarting football because it isn't happening. They want to build a new facility for basketball and ice hockey. That's where their money will go when they finally raise it. There's no groundswell of support to restart football.

[The Cats]

ignore him. elon or not, theres still enough upside to the caa compared to the socon, big south, aec and maac that the caa can do most anything they want.

Haven't even made the announcement, and already defending the CAA. xchinscratchx

[fc97]

Haven't even made the announcement, and already defending the CAA. xchinscratchx

defending anything east coast to a know-nothing :)

at least you can't call us like app fans. none of us have had one bad thing to say about the socon despite all this

[The Cats]

defending anything east coast to a know-nothing :)

at least you can't call us like app fans. none of us have had one bad thing to say about the socon despite all this

I don't think I likened you or other Elon fans to the many ASU fan's brutal attacks on the SoCon once they decided they had outgrown the conference.

But, the fact that you even bring that comparison up, makes me wonder......

[MplsBison]

Interesting isn't the word I'd choose, nightmare is the first one that came to my mind. And I'm pretty confident that Albany isn't building their stadium to play in this league. Nor is Stony Brook planning their stadium enhancement to play in this league. From my UNH point of view, this league is better than just one thing -- no football! A bunch of small private schools with a very minimal history of participation in any sports with UNH who probably don't want to offer full scholarships.

You need to give up the idea of Vermont restarting football because it isn't happening. They want to build a new facility for basketball and ice hockey. That's where their money will go when they finally raise it. There's no groundswell of support to restart football.

It's in the context of the thread conversation.

If JMU and Delaware leave the CAA FC for a FBS conference invite, this could prompt Villanova to move to the Patriot League in short order (Patriot would then be closed off). In turn, William & Mary and Richmond may quickly agree to return to the SoCon for at least football only.

That leaves the America East football schools plus Rhode Island and Towson. And Towson could well decide to follow W&M and Richmond down to the SoCon for football only as well, in fact let's go ahead and assume they'll do that rather than be in a true New England conference.


So now what do you five New England teams do? A merger with the NEC makes sense to me. Perhaps you negotiate for a 40 or 45 scholarship floor, but does it really matter? Those teams that want to offer full scholarships (perhaps CCSU, Robert Morris, Wagner?) will do that and those that don't will not. You'll have 8 league games per season.


What's wrong with that? Or more importantly, what else can you do??

[MplsBison]

how does that benefit new hampshire, maine, stony brook and albany? how can you sit and justify that a group of schools from nearly no scholarship to max scholarship schools are going to somehow, out of nowhere, justify that they should sit at the same table together.

how can you sit and justify how the northeast and the south should set up conferences while ndsu, sdsu and und sit in two different conferences? why don't you start your own thread about consolidating the plains schools and rid us of your drivel here.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to try explaining anything to someone who can't be bothered with capitalization.

[ElonFirefighter]

I have neither the time nor the inclination to try explaining anything to someone who can't be bothered with capitalization.

CAN you EXPLAIN it TO me

[MplsBison]

CAN you EXPLAIN it TO me

Sure, see post #163.

[fc97]

I don't think I likened you or other Elon fans to the many ASU fan's brutal attacks on the SoCon once they decided they had outgrown the conference.

But, the fact that you even bring that comparison up, makes me wonder......

now come on, thats just unfair.

i'd personally be happy in the socon. it works for the nc fans better. but at the same time, i can understand reasons for going to the caa too. either way, it works for elon. so it seems like a no-lose situation on the surface.

the only downside is that until a decision is made, we can to continue to look at posts from the mplsbisonette

[fc97]

I have neither the time nor the inclination to try explaining anything to someone who can't be bothered with capitalization.

tisk tisk

if you're going to criticize, you'd think you would use proper grammar. but this is a forum, not an english class and none of us are being graded, so get over yourself.

there's nothing to explain, you know nothing and continue to make up stuff like you do.

because, after all, your idiotic plan means that conferences are interested in football only additions. that is something the socon, and the presidents, have said no to publicly. which again prove you know nothing, have read nothing and are making up the entire scenario based on what we can only think are either delusions or dreams you had.

[Apphole]

once they decided they had outgrown the conference.

Oh, did we just decide this one day? That makes us ass holes? It was a painful reality. xcoffeex

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz3bzcXrmq1qdzj0yo1_500.gif

[The Cats]

Oh, did we just decide this one day? That makes us ass holes? It was a painful reality. xcoffeex



If you're going to quote me, at least leave it in context. I said "many ASU fan's", not all ASU fans. Many ASU fans said that repeatedly on this very board (and others) over the last several years - that ASU has outgrown the "smallcon" as they called it.


Now, fat guy - proceed.

[phoenix3]

I have neither the time nor the inclination to try explaining anything to someone who can't be bothered with capitalization.

AppState, is that you?

[PaladinFan]

SoCon officials to Macon to visit Mercer. Article says all of the current schools will send representatives (including Elon, but excluding the defectors).

http://www.macon.com/2013/05/16/2481743/mercer-to-host-southern-conference.html

[walliver]

SoCon officials to Macon to visit Mercer. Article says all of the current schools will send representatives (including Elon, but excluding the defectors).

http://www.macon.com/2013/05/16/2481743/mercer-to-host-southern-conference.html

From reading the article it talks about 7 OR 8 schools participating. It isn't clear whether Elon will be there. It also seems that Elon will announce a move in 1-2 weeks.

[rokamortis]

From reading the article it talks about 7 OR 8 schools participating. It isn't clear whether Elon will be there. It also seems that Elon will announce a move in 1-2 weeks.

And no mention of Mercer talking with the CAA. I wonder if there is any truth to those rumors. Mercer would be a great add for either conference.

[CID1990]

If the article is correct that Jacksonville is considering scholarship football then I would think they would be an eventual candidate. I think they would be about as far afield as the conference should go, though. There is something to be said for a smaller geographic footprint with FCS budgets the way they are.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[superman7515]

And no mention of Mercer talking with the CAA. I wonder if there is any truth to those rumors. Mercer would be a great add for either conference.

Both Elon and Mercer are pretty underwhelming, to say the least, to most CAA fans. I doubt many fans want either one in the conference, but at this point, it is what it is. Of all the names being tossed around, most would probably prefer Stony Brook and Albany just became full members, and even that has its fair share of detractors. Even so, two footballs schools does not replace what has left (UMass, Old Dominion, Georgia State) or quit playing (Northeastern, Hofstra) so there will have to be some sort of concessions made amongst the schools. We can only hope it is so infuriating that Hofstra leaves, haha.

[fc97]

If the article is correct that Jacksonville is considering scholarship football then I would think they would be an eventual candidate. I think they would be about as far afield as the conference should go, though. There is something to be said for a smaller geographic footprint with FCS budgets the way they are.


Sent from the center of the universe.

mercer, in my opinion, is a brilliant add. etsu is a good add. vmi is bad. jacksonville, with scholarship ball, has more potential than vmi and gets the socon into the florida market. the big hangup with jacksonville is the stadium. it makes charleston southern look like they play in the superdome.

elon has gotten really quiet again.

[rokamortis]

Both Elon and Mercer are pretty underwhelming, to say the least, to most CAA fans. I doubt many fans want either one in the conference, but at this point, it is what it is. Of all the names being tossed around, most would probably prefer Stony Brook and Albany just became full members, and even that has its fair share of detractors. Even so, two footballs schools does not replace what has left (UMass, Old Dominion, Georgia State) or quit playing (Northeastern, Hofstra) so there will have to be some sort of concessions made amongst the schools. We can only hope it is so infuriating that Hofstra leaves, haha.

Doesn't the CAA need to have at least one more southern team to have a strong southern division and make everything a bit easier for CofC and UNCW?

[rokamortis]

elon has gotten really quiet again.

Appears to me that they are really scrutinizing the associated costs / benefits, seeing who the CAA will bring in with them, waiting to see if the CAA loses anyone, seeing who the SoCon will add, or all of the above.

[CID1990]

mercer, in my opinion, is a brilliant add. etsu is a good add. vmi is bad. jacksonville, with scholarship ball, has more potential than vmi and gets the socon into the florida market. the big hangup with jacksonville is the stadium. it makes charleston southern look like they play in the superdome.

elon has gotten really quiet again.

I used to go to the JU campus every year for the Jacksonville Scottish Games, and the structure I saw there (large permanent concrete home stands) was MUCH more substantial than CSU's. That said, I do not know if that structure is what they are using for football. It looked more set up for soccer at the time.

[danefan]

I used to go to the JU campus every year for the Jacksonville Scottish Games, and the structure I saw there (large permanent concrete home stands) was MUCH more substantial than CSU's. That said, I do not know if that structure is what they are using for football. It looked more set up for soccer at the time.

Jacksonville is planning on building a new stadium. Small, but new and could probably be expanded if need be.

http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/promo_JUStadium_1.jpg

[CID1990]

Jacksonville is planning on building a new stadium. Small, but new and could probably be expanded if need be.

http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/promo_JUStadium_1.jpg

That picture looks like an expansion on the structure I saw. It was by no means a stadium worthy of a scholarship FCS program, but it was much better than CSU's.

[walliver]

Appears to me that they are really scrutinizing the associated costs / benefits, seeing who the CAA will bring in with them, waiting to see if the CAA loses anyone, seeing who the SoCon will add, or all of the above.

The finances can be tricky. When CofC did their study, the bean counters figured that going from the SoCon to the CAA would be an no-gain financial situation if Davy moved with them and a loss if Davy didn't. They moved anyway.

Elon is closer to the CAA footprint which would make non-football travel cheaper, but the football team would have to deal with travel to New England.

I suspect that if this was a straight forward decision, we would have heard something definitive by now.

[superman7515]

Doesn't the CAA need to have at least one more southern team to have a strong southern division and make everything a bit easier for CofC and UNCW?

But neither Mercer nor Elon makes it any stronger than it already is with the gains that were seen by losing Georgia State.

[rokamortis]

But neither Mercer nor Elon makes it any stronger than it already is with the gains that were seen by losing Georgia State.

When I typed 'strong', I meant a solid, stable southern division, not competitively. I think a southern school or two would add stability for the southern tier and discourage the rumors / thoughts that UNCW and CofC might be looking for a different conference. If the CAA doesn't want to be in the south then they should just add northern teams and cut loose the southern schools.

[PaladinFan]

But neither Mercer nor Elon makes it any stronger than it already is with the gains that were seen by losing Georgia State.

I just don't think the CAA makes sense for Mercer. I think the need to lock in "southern" schools is a bit of a red herring.

I've made the drive from Macon to Charleston. They are both cities in the southeast, but are not exactly convenient to one another (Charleston is not really convenient to much of anything). UNCW is also in the south, but it would take the better part of a day to drive there.

Look at it this way. It is further to drive from Mercer to UNCW than it is to drive from UNCW to Washington DC.

[fc97]

But neither Mercer nor Elon makes it any stronger than it already is with the gains that were seen by losing Georgia State.

it depends on what you mean by stronger. sometimes more stable means stronger. in some sports, elon helps. and in other we probably won't. it just depends on how you look at it. i went to the elon/hofstra, elon/stony brook, and elon/towson games up that way. other than the monsoon of a stony brook game, which still had a few hundred elon fans stick through; the other games had a good share of elon fans attend.

so i dont know, i think the caa could do much worse than us.

[PAllen]

Jacksonville is planning on building a new stadium. Small, but new and could probably be expanded if need be.

http://jacksonville.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/promo_JUStadium_1.jpg

Good for JU. Hopefully a sign of good things to come. Although, even though I'm not one to gripe about distance from the field, you'd need to dial a different area code to reach the other stand. Is that a soccer field inside of a track?

[superman7515]

so i dont know, i think the caa could do much worse than us.

Absolutely. No offense but I don't think of Elon one way or the other, so while I'm not praising them, I'm not attempting to put them down either. Just saying that neither Elon nor Mercer would be a school that would suddenly stop JMU & Delaware from wanting stronger football schools or Hofstra & Drexel from wanting stronger basketball schools and as expressed above, Mercer does nothing at all for UNC Wilmington wanting decreased travel expenses. I'm not saying either school is the worst, just that no one school is going to solve the "issues" that keep being mentioned. Let UNCW go to the SoCon and get Albany & Stony Brook as full members and if that pushes Hofstra back to America East, all the better.

[ASUMountaineer]

If you're going to quote me, at least leave it in context. I said "many ASU fan's", not all ASU fans. Many ASU fans said that repeatedly on this very board (and others) over the last several years - that ASU has outgrown the "smallcon" as they called it.


Now, fat guy - proceed.

Do you consider that statement to be factually inaccurate?

[Sandlapper Spike]

Doesn't the CAA need to have at least one more southern team to have a strong southern division and make everything a bit easier for CofC and UNCW?

One thing Elon has to consider is the possibility that neither of those schools will be in the CAA for the long term.

[MplsBison]

Wilmington joined the CAA in 1984, when it was still the ECAC South and have never left the conference (unlike Towson). Only JMU and W&M can say the same (both being founding members of the ECAC South in 1979).

They don't want to go to the SoCon or any other 1-bid Division I bball conference in the south.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Wilmington joined the CAA in 1984, when it was still the ECAC South and have never left the conference (unlike Towson). Only JMU and W&M can say the same (both being founding members of the ECAC South in 1979).

They don't want to go to the SoCon or any other 1-bid Division I bball conference in the south.

UNCW may choose to investigate membership in leagues without as large a geographic footprint, based on the report that was issued earlier in the week.

[MplsBison]

The report had nothing to say about conference realignment except early on in the report (page 2/3), where the chancellor charged the group with five guidelines, one of which was to respect UNCW's commitment to the CAA.

[Sandlapper Spike]

The report had nothing to say about conference realignment except early on in the report (page 2/3), where the chancellor charged the group with five guidelines, one of which was to respect UNCW's commitment to the CAA.

They were indeed charged in such a manner, and yet the committee members still saw fit to state the following:

"There has been a series of significant matters which have exacerbated some of this financial quandary. Those issues include a northern expansion of the CAA."

"A mid-week travel schedule does significantly impact student well-being and their personal challenge to meet attendance requirements."

"UNCW should continue to evaluate future athletic conference affiliation opportunities within the context of fiscal and competitive feasibility, and academic responsibility, related to UNCW's institutional aspirations."

That doesn't exactly come across as a ringing endorsement of the CAA.

[rokamortis]

One thing Elon has to consider is the possibility that neither of those schools will be in the CAA for the long term.


Agreed, but by having Elon it may help those schools decide to stay.

[rokamortis]

They were indeed charged in such a manner, and yet the committee members still saw fit to state the following:

"There has been a series of significant matters which have exacerbated some of this financial quandary. Those issues include a northern expansion of the CAA."

"A mid-week travel schedule does significantly impact student well-being and their personal challenge to meet attendance requirements."

"UNCW should continue to evaluate future athletic conference affiliation opportunities within the context of fiscal and competitive feasibility, and academic responsibility, related to UNCW's institutional aspirations."

That doesn't exactly come across as a ringing endorsement of the CAA.

That last part especially. I think it is as close as the committee could come out and state that they should look at different conferences without just coming out and saying it. UNCW sees basketball as their main sport and wants to be in the CAA because it is better league - I just don't think they can afford it from an all sport perspective.

[MplsBison]

They were indeed charged in such a manner, and yet the committee members still saw fit to state the following:

"There has been a series of significant matters which have exacerbated some of this financial quandary. Those issues include a northern expansion of the CAA."

"A mid-week travel schedule does significantly impact student well-being and their personal challenge to meet attendance requirements."

"UNCW should continue to evaluate future athletic conference affiliation opportunities within the context of fiscal and competitive feasibility, and academic responsibility, related to UNCW's institutional aspirations."

That doesn't exactly come across as a ringing endorsement of the CAA.

Those statements read to me as lip service to the chancellor's charge.

The SoCon doesn't want UNCW. That leaves conferences like the Big South and Atlantic Sun.

The CAA might be 1-bid now, but I don't think anyone is going to sign off on a move to either of those conferences.

[walliver]

One unknown (at least to me) factor, is the SoCon's longer term strategy. The rumored three consists of a bad existing football team, a school restarting scholarship football, and a school starting non-schollie football which is widely rumored to be moving toward scholarships. This leaves UNC-G as the only non-football member. Will the SoCon now add two non-football members? I don't know (and I really hope not!), but, the Elon rep has been at the meetings and knows the general consensus of the rest of the membership. Other than UNC-W, I can't think of a BB school that would really entice Elon (I'm not even sure UNC-W would help).

[phoenix3]

One unknown (at least to me) factor, is the SoCon's longer term strategy. The rumored three consists of a bad existing football team, a school restarting scholarship football, and a school starting non-schollie football which is widely rumored to be moving toward scholarships. This leaves UNC-G as the only non-football member. Will the SoCon now add two non-football members? I don't know (and I really hope not!), but, the Elon rep has been at the meetings and knows the general consensus of the rest of the membership. Other than UNC-W, I can't think of a BB school that would really entice Elon (I'm not even sure UNC-W would help).

I've kind of wondered about this too. What exactly does this mean? Has the SoCon contacted UR, W&M, CCU and other more prominent football/sports schools and been turned down? If not, why these schools? At least when in 2003 when Elon was added, there was previous success in football, baseball and basketball at different levels. Since the SoCon has been a football first conference for its entire existence, I don't understand these additions. Is the SoCon trying to reinvent here?

[Go...gate]

A friend from Mercer County NJ whose son plays for Elon advises that Elon is now formally a member of the CAA. I have not looked at previous pages, so if this is already been formally announced, my apologies.

[phoenix3]

I have heard that it's a done deal too. But, to my knowledge, there has been no formal announcement which leads me to believe there has been no official "signing". Elon has a history of waiting until all i(s) are dotted and t(s) crossed before uttering a word. There also may be some sticking points. I've learned to not believe anything until there's been a formal announcement. All that being said, I expect an announcement on or by next Friday.

[asumike83]

Would certainly explain why the SoCon intends to bring in 3 football-playing members when only two have announced their departure officially. I'd be surprised if they wanted to have 10 football playing members and not have a round-robin schedule or go to 9 conference games.

[Go...gate]

Nice add for the CAA.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Adam Smith of the Burlington Times tweeted this afternoon "SoCon commish John Iamarino says #Elon hopes to make CAA decision within weeks, if not days."

[Tribe4SF]

Link to Smith's article.

http://www.thetimesnews.com/sports/elon-sports/southern-conference-waits-as-elon-s-decision-on-caa-approaches-1.147047?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Hope this comes to pass. Phoenix will be a welcome addition. Easy drive from Williamsburg.

[Dane96]

Rumors piling on that Albany will announce as soon as Thursday it's move to the CAA for all sports.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Rumors piling on that Albany will announce as soon as Thursday it's move to the CAA for all sports.

Wonder what UNH will have to say about that.

[Dane96]

Ummm...what would they have to say?!? What's the implication? That they should have made the move themselves a couple of years back. Answer...YES!

Unfortunately, the financial situation with the league setup back when UNH was offered was completely different. The league is rumored to go to divisional play with these adds to help with costs.

UNH is horribly strapped financially.

[Dane96]

From onebidwonders "@chrispalm I still don't have the full details, but I've been told by enough credible sources in the AE, CAA and at Albany that its imminent"

[henfan]

Unfortunately, the financial situation with the league setup back when UNH was offered was completely different. The league is rumored to go to divisional play with these adds to help with costs.

Divisional play was on the table about the time UNH was getting interest. What I don't know is how strong the opposition was to the idea within the league, if it was ever a condition of them joining, etc.

Who knows what the future holds? Perhaps UNH will be back in consideration at some point.

[bluehenbillk]

I'd like to see divisional play, something like:

North - Albany, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Stony Brook, Villanova

South - Delaware, Elon, James Madison, Richmond, Towson, William & Mary

[PaladinFan]

I have not kept up, has Elon actually received an invite, or is this all still speculation?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I have not kept up, has Elon actually received an invite, or is this all still speculation?

At this point.

[Dane96]

Divisional play was on the table about the time UNH was getting interest. What I don't know is how strong the opposition was to the idea within the league, if it was ever a condition of them joining, etc.

Who knows what the future holds? Perhaps UNH will be back in consideration at some point.

Did not know that was the case. Intersting then...really interesting...as why they said no. Huh. Thanks for the info!!!

[T-Dog]

It's over. Elon has called a 2pm presser for Thursday.

[fc97]

reports are, albany has called a press conference for tomorrow.

[Dane96]

What reports?!?!? On Albany, that is.

I see that nowhere...I can only hope though!

[Apphole]

The Titanic is running low on lifeboats.

[asumike83]

Jeff Hartsell (Citadel beat writer)

‏@Jeff_fromthePC
Elon is gone from SoCon. I'm told board voted Tues to join CAA. News conference just announced for Thurs. Albany (NY) also coming in to CAA

[knucklehead]

So, SoCon....VMI. And then who? Coastal? ? ?

[PaladinFan]

So, SoCon....VMI. And then who? Coastal? ? ?

I imagine they've seen this coming, that's why you saw two football schools leaving and three coming in.

I mean, the CAA gets a 3-8 football team with one playoff appearance on their resume whose only conference win last season was against Western Carolina. Congratulations?

[AppMan]

It's over. Elon has called a 2pm presser for Thursday.

Elon to SoCon..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEqUyNaSdvg

[ASUMountaineer]

I imagine they've seen this coming, that's why you saw two football schools leaving and three coming in.

I mean, the CAA gets a 3-8 football team with one playoff appearance on their resume whose only conference win last season was against Western Carolina. Congratulations?

If losing App and GSU provides the SoCon a net gain, then losing Elon should really bolster the league. Congrats to the SoCon!

[superman7515]

If losing App and GSU provides the SoCon a net gain, then losing Elon should really bolster the league. Congrats to the SoCon!

It's basic math... SoCon 2011 - (AppSt + GaSo + Davidson + Charleston + Elon) / VMI saying the new weak SoCon made them more attractive than the one they weren't able to compete in < SoCon 2014

[PaladinFan]

If losing App and GSU provides the SoCon a net gain, then losing Elon should really bolster the league. Congrats to the SoCon!

You can continue to misunderstand my position, but at least keep it to yourself.

The SoCon subtracts two bad basketball programs, a mediocre program, and a good program. They add one good program, and two mediocre programs, all of which will play football.

No one is suggesting there is an addition by subtraction with regard to football. The Elon loss is a nothing in football. They caught lightening in a bottle with Riddle, but were bad prior to his arrival, and have been bad since he left.

[kdinva]

VMI saying the new weak SoCon made them more attractive than the one they weren't able to compete in < SoCon 2014

I don't fault you for that comment.........we were taken aback by the move, since we went 3-5 in 2002, and had a lot of starters returning in 2003.......

Ironic: in 2003, Elon and VMI pretty much traded places..........now, an almost identical move. Looks like The Fates don't want VMI and Elon in the same league...... xdontknowx

[Sir William]

No one is suggesting there is an addition by subtraction with regard to football. The Elon loss is a nothing in football. They caught lightening in a bottle with Riddle, but were bad prior to his arrival, and have been bad since he left.

That's a good and undeniable point.

See ya later, Phoenix...but really, who cares?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://dubhub.blogs.starnewsonline.com/19721/breaking-elon-to-join-caa/


Elon is leaving the Southern Conference to join UNCW and eight other schools, according to a source. The university has scheduled a press conference for 2 p.m. Thursday. It’s unclear whether the membership begins in 2013-14 or 2014-15, although 2014-15 is more likely.

A Division I member since 1999, Elon left the Big South to join the Southern Conference in 2003. The Phoenix plays football at the FCS level and is coming off the best basketball season in the school’s Division I history, finishing 21-12 and winning the SoCon’s North Division. The Phoenix also has a consistently solid baseball program.

[asumike83]

The SoCon subtracts two bad basketball programs, a mediocre program, and a good program. They add one good program, and two mediocre programs, all of which will play football.

If App is a 'bad basketball program', so is VMI. There is absolutely no argument to be made that VMI basketball is an upgrade over App, none. If so, I'd like to hear it. All App fans want improvement from our hoops program but it's not like we are some bottom-feeder who's been holding back the conference. ASU has finished with a winning record in conference and gone to the SoCon Semifinals or further 3 of the last 4 years. What are the chances VMI does that?

Also, the SoCon is losing two good basketball programs (CofC, Davidson), not one.

[Apphole]

They caught lightening in a bottle with Riddle

I'm pretty sure that lightning is still trying find it's way out of a bottle. Trying to find it's way out of several felonies as well.

[Jiggs]

I'm sure the the name of their current conference offended many Elonites.

[walliver]

The Titanic is running low on lifeboats.

Now that the riff-raff has left, we'll put the plug back in, start the pumps, and happily sail away.


We may just have to throw UNC-G overboard.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

If App is a 'bad basketball program', so is VMI. There is absolutely no argument to be made that VMI basketball is an upgrade over App, none. If so, I'd like to hear it. All App fans want improvement from our hoops program but it's not like we are some bottom-feeder who's been holding back the conference. ASU has finished with a winning record in conference and gone to the SoCon Semifinals or further 3 of the last 4 years. What are the chances VMI does that?

Also, the SoCon is losing two good basketball programs (CofC, Davidson), not one.

It's not an upgrade over GSU, either. We haven't done very well lately but I'm pretty sure when VMI was in the conference we finished above them most years. It's laughable to think the SoCon will be a stronger basketball league after all of this.

[SpiritCymbal]

Looks like we escaped the burning building just in time. Next year the SoCon loses its 2 best football programs, 2 best basketball programs and 3 best baseball programs. The SoCon isn't going to die. It's not going to go defunct...but it is most definitely heading in a completely different direction than the previous 92 year history. The SoCon is on the verge of becoming another ASun or BigSouth conference instead of protecting it's place among the top 1-aa/mid-major conferences.

If I'm UTC & WCU, I'm taking a serious look down the road and rethinking my "commitment" to the SoCon.

[CID1990]

Now that the riff-raff has left, we'll put the plug back in, start the pumps, and happily sail away.


We may just have to throw UNC-G overboard.

I'm hoping they see the writing on the wall and bail of their own accord.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Looks like we escaped the burning building just in time. Next year the SoCon loses its 2 best football programs, 2 best basketball programs and 3 best baseball programs. The SoCon isn't going to die. It's not going to go defunct...but it is most definitely heading in a completely different direction than the previous 92 year history. The SoCon is on the verge of becoming another ASun or BigSouth conference instead of protecting it's place among the top 1-aa/mid-major conferences.

If I'm UTC & WCU, I'm taking a serious look down the road and rethinking my "commitment" to the SoCon.

El Cid has to be one of the top 3 baseball programs. But I agree with you. If I'm a Western or UTC fan I wouldn't be a happy camper right now.

[Apphole]

Now that the riff-raff has left, we'll put the plug back in, start the pumps, and happily sail away.


We may just have to throw UNC-G overboard.

xlolx WOW! The top two football programs, the top two basketball programs and 3 of the top 4 baseball programs are leaving all at once. Riff-raff he says. xrotatehx

[asumike83]

It's not an upgrade over GSU, either. We haven't done very well lately but I'm pretty sure when VMI was in the conference we finished above them most years. It's laughable to think the SoCon will be a stronger basketball league after all of this.

Agreed. Mercer softens the blow of losing Davidson but they do not replace them. Also, how will funding scholarship football affect their basketball budget? Same for ETSU.

Just a one-year snapshot but still interesting:

Departing schools, 2013 basketball RPI
Davidson - 65
Charleston - 145
Elon - 181
Appalachian - 264
Georgia Southern - 267

Incoming schools, 2013 basketball RPI
Mercer - 118
ETSU - 271
VMI - 302

The notion that ETSU/VMI are big basketball upgrades over App/GSU does not add up for me.

[The Cats]

Next year the SoCon loses its ........ 3 best baseball programs....

Do you know something we don't?

I didn't realize WCU and the Citadel had announced they were leaving. Do you have a link?

[GATA_Eagles]

Just making it a point...going back to 2005 regional appearances:
Appalachian State: 2012
Samford: 2012
Charleston: 2012, 2010, 2006, 2005
Georgia Southern: 2011, 2009
Elon: 2010, 2009, 2008, 2006
The Citadel: 2010
Wofford: 2007
Western Carolina: 2007
Furman: 2005

[Apphole]

Just making it a point...going back to 2005 regional appearances:
Appalachian State: 2012
Samford: 2012
Charleston: 2012, 2010, 2006, 2005
Georgia Southern: 2011, 2009
Elon: 2010, 2009, 2008, 2006
The Citadel: 2010
Wofford: 2007
Western Carolina: 2007
Furman: 2005

FIFY

[SpiritCymbal]

NM Apphole already got it.

[GATA_Eagles]

Thanks. Not sure why I didn't bold App

[ASUMountaineer]

It's basic math... SoCon 2011 - (AppSt + GaSo + Davidson + Charleston + Elon) / VMI saying the new weak SoCon made them more attractive than the one they weren't able to compete in < SoCon 2014

When you say it that it makes perfect sense.

[ASUMountaineer]

You can continue to misunderstand my position, but at least keep it to yourself.

The SoCon subtracts two bad basketball programs, a mediocre program, and a good program. They add one good program, and two mediocre programs, all of which will play football.

No one is suggesting there is an addition by subtraction with regard to football. The Elon loss is a nothing in football. They caught lightening in a bottle with Riddle, but were bad prior to his arrival, and have been bad since he left.

Did you not mention football in the post that I responded to? I didn't see anything about basketball, but I could have missed it. It seems fairly reasonable that a conference that loses 5 members will not find themselves in a "net gain." The key isn't really if it's a net gain, but if the existing membership will be happy with the replacements. If so, then it's a positive in that regard.

[walliver]

SoCon 2011 - (AppSt + GaSo + Davidson + Charleston + Elon) / VMI

I tried that with my calculator but kept getting a "Divide by 0" error.

[LeadBolt]

I tried that with my calculator but kept getting a "Divide by 0" error.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to walliver again.

[Waco Kid]

The 5 schools that are leaving next year account for 10 of the 18 SoCon Championships awarded so far this year as well as 4 runner ups.

Looks like a net gain to me... xdontknowx

[PaladinFan]

El Cid has to be one of the top 3 baseball programs. But I agree with you. If I'm a Western or UTC fan I wouldn't be a happy camper right now.

I was about to say, did Western Carolina and the Citadel leave without my knowing?

Baseball I think is a tough sell. Gone are RPI 78 (Charleston), 85 (Elon), 88 (App), 144 (GSU) and 197 (Davidson). In are 27 (Mercer), 103 (ETSU), and 189 (VMI).

If I did my math right, the SoCon goes from an average RPI this season of 133.8 to an average RPI after realignment of 119.9. How is that getting worse in baseball?