FCS Playoffs

[IBleedYellow]

So, we used to be at 16 playoff teams for many years. NDSU never actually made the playoffs when it was 16 teams, and we obviously were the last in during 2010 when the playoffs were at 20 teams. This year we are sitting at playoff 24 teams. Does anyone believe that with some very regular playoff teams leaving in App State and Georgia Southern that this was probably bad timing in letting the playoff field expand to 24 teams? Hell, the way it is the autobid winners of a few conferences still have to play the "play-in" game of the playoffs.

What do you think the perfect set is at for the playoffs? Should they be retracted back down, stay where we are? How will this help the "watering down" of FCS football as a whole? Sound off.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

24 is perfect. It doesn't matter that App and Georgia Southern is leaving. Why, just last year, even without both schools, there would have been plenty of schools that could have made for a great playoffs. Including one team that went 10-1.

[RichH2]

Given current size of FCS, 24 ,in most years, is afair number.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So, we used to be at 16 playoff teams for many years. NDSU never actually made the playoffs when it was 16 teams, and we obviously were the last in during 2010 when the playoffs were at 20 teams. This year we are sitting at playoff 24 teams. Does anyone believe that with some very regular playoff teams leaving in App State and Georgia Southern that this was probably bad timing in letting the playoff field expand to 24 teams? Hell, the way it is the autobid winners of a few conferences still have to play the "play-in" game of the playoffs.

What do you think the perfect set is at for the playoffs? Should they be retracted back down, stay where we are? How will this help the "watering down" of FCS football as a whole? Sound off.

I've never had a problem with expanded playoffs. Win the game. Period.

[Pard4Life]

24... more drama, more access, no bye weeks.

[IBleedYellow]

I was personally a fan of the 20 team playoff week. Give the teams that earned it their Thanksgiving. Will the top seeds still get this in the 24 team playoff? If so, then I have no true complaints.

I feel like most people who complained about 20/24 team playoffs saw that as a harder path towards getting a National Title (which it is) and didn't like letting more have a shot at glory.

[MarkyMark]

24 teams as long as its economically feasible.

Getting a playoff bid can energize a program. Look at what the 2010 playoff run did for NDSU.

[AmsterBison]

Well, if you want to be technical... 28 is a perfect number.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_number

[Bisonator]

I think 24 is a good number. There were some deserving teams last year that didn't get in and with a 12 game season there should be even more this year. I like giving the top 4-8 teams a bye week. I think the top 8 will get a bye week in the 24 team format, no? We'll see what happens this year I guess. With 124 FCS teams, 24 is still less then 20% of the field.

[kdinva]

I think the top 8 will get a bye week in the 24 team format, no? .

yes.

[GlassOnion]

16 team playoff. The rest is just fluff, and gets next to no coverage anyway.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

16 team playoff. The rest is just fluff, and gets next to no coverage anyway.

Personally I could give two ****s if Lehigh's 2010 win over Northern Iowa was "covered". That did not make that win any less sweet.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Personally I could give two ****s if Lehigh's 2010 win over Northern Iowa was "covered". That did not make that win any less sweet.

I don't understand this obsession with coverage anyway. It's like they didn't get enough attention when they were kids or something.

[IBleedYellow]

16 team playoff. The rest is just fluff, and gets next to no coverage anyway.

As long as there is "coverage" for the fans of the school and the FCS fans to see the game, I'm happy.

Sadly that is also becoming less and less, but whatever, the App State and GSU's of the world can't wait to play on ESPN all the time like their Sun Belt conference mates.

[BEAR]

Well I'm a fan of the 24 team system...

why?

Because FCS football isn't that popular in the media or with BCS/FBS fans anyway. The average football fan doesn't know the difference between I-AA and Division II. So if they don't care..why should we care what image it portrays or how we do the playoff system?

Because a team like SAM, who didn't win the auto in the SLC but made it to the championship game might have been left out if it were 16 teams instead of 20.

Because the best teams tend to rise to the top anyway..no matter the rank or playoff spot numbers.

[GlassOnion]

I guess the fluff part of my post wasnt really arguable?

How about those MEAC teams, or Coastals that get blown out of the water 55-14 by a one and done App team getting a bid? The higher the standard of play in the playoffs, the better. The fluff only makes the FCS look weaker.

[WileECoyote06]

I guess the fluff part of my post wasnt really arguable?

How about those MEAC teams, or Coastals that get blown out of the water 55-14 by a one and done App team getting a bid? The higher the standard of play in the playoffs, the better. The fluff only makes the FCS look weaker.

FCS teams on average are weaker than FBS teams. In perception and in performance. FCS teams are on average stronger than Division II teams. I'm not sure I get your point.

If App beats a team like Coastal or A&T during the regular season it strengthens their playoff resume. But in the same vein, if Coastal or A&T earned their conference championship then they have a right to compete for a national championship.

[Lehigh'98]

I guess the fluff part of my post wasnt really arguable?

How about those MEAC teams, or Coastals that get blown out of the water 55-14 by a one and done App team getting a bid? The higher the standard of play in the playoffs, the better. The fluff only makes the FCS look weaker.

In a sense, you are correct. Any team after 16 has a very small % of winning it all. Small is not zero though. Upsets do happen and its not lengthening the season. So, unless you consider anything but a national title a failed season, there isn't much harm.

No one looks at the FCS to begin with, so it won't be perceived as weaker when it isnt perceived at all.

[GlassOnion]

In a sense, you are correct. Any team after 16 has a very small % of winning it all. Small is not zero though. Upsets do happen and its not lengthening the season. So, unless you consider anything but a national title a failed season, there isn't much harm.

No one looks at the FCS to begin with, so it won't be perceived as weaker when it isnt perceived at all.

Thats pretty funny, I certainly wasnt expecting the "nobody watches anyway" argument! xlolx

[asumike83]

I thought a 16-team playoff was a perfect format, although I wouldn't mind seeing a week off for the entire field so the games could start once the students are back from Thanksgiving.

[lionsrking2]

I would be for 32 teams if it were logistically possible, but 24 is better than 16 or 20 IMO. The more the merrier in my book.

[IBleedYellow]

I would be for 32 teams if it were logistically possible, but 24 is better than 16 or 20 IMO. The more the merrier in my book.

I would like to know how much travel would cost to fly/bus 16 teams for the first round, or however they would do this. I know right now with NDSU hosting 2 playoff games the rest of the playoffs are golden just by our fanbase. Take into consideration other high profile schools that sell out like Montana and the NCAA starts making bank on the playoffs quite quickly when they allow large fanbase schools to host playoff games.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

24 teams is fine.

Hopefully the NCAA does not regionalize the playoffs like D2 and D3 in the future.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

24 teams is fine.

Hopefully the NCAA does not regionalize the playoffs like D2 and D3 in the future.

They kind of already have.

[Eagle22]

Sixteen is the right size IF they seed the entire field. In at least the past 10 years, the NCAA has been very clear in their actions in trying to figure out the revenue streams associated with keeping down the losses in putting together the annual tournament. I'd argue the tipping point came in 1998 when Bob Marcum took near gleeful delight in discussing the expenses associated with moving the Minutemen (and entourage) back-n-forth across the country multiple times. (Yes, I know the NCAA reimburses a certain level of the traveling party).

So what does the NCAA do ? Increases the field. Makes little to no sense to me. I say that fulling realizing that in 2010, my Eagles would not have made the field without that expansion ... but even so that illustrates the next issue. FCS is losing two bellweather programs that have contributed a fair amount of revenue to the process within the last decade. Of course we aren't talking about mega-millions, but the shoestring budget that the FCS playoffs is operated on can only handle so many hits.

I find it supremely ironic that LFN maintains he does not "give two ****s if Lehigh's 2010 win over Northern Iowa was covered", merely days after starting this thread:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?132039-Better-Marketing-the-FCS-Through-TV

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Sixteen is the right size. In at least the past 10 years, the NCAA has been very clear in their actions in trying to figure out the revenue streams associated with keeping down the losses in putting together the annual tournament. I'd argue the tipping point came in 1998 when Bob Marcum took near gleeful delight in discussing the expenses associated with moving the Minutemen (and entourage) back-n-forth across the country multiple times. (Yes, I know the NCAA reimburses a certain level of the traveling party).

So what does the NCAA do ? Increases the field. Makes little to no sense to me. I say that fulling realizing that in 2010, my Eagles would not have made the field without that expansion ... but even so that illustrates the next issue. FCS is losing two bellweather programs that have contributed a fair amount of revenue to the process within the last decade. Of course we aren't talking about mega-millions, but the shoestring budget that the FCS playoffs is operated on can only handle so many hits.

I find it supremely ironic that LFN maintains he does not "give two ****s if Lehigh's 2010 win over Northern Iowa was covered", merely days after starting this thread:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?132039-Better-Marketing-the-FCS-Through-TV

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

NCAA hockey has 59 teams and uses a 16 team format. FCS has 127 teams so 24 isn't out of order.

[Eagle22]

24 teams is fine.

Hopefully the NCAA does not regionalize the playoffs like D2 and D3 in the future.

IMO, that is precisely why the NCAA expanded the playoff field. Regionalization = Cost control

[Eagle22]

NCAA hockey has 59 teams and uses a 16 team format. FCS has 127 teams so 24 isn't out of order.

You caught me before my edit :)

I added the caveat that 16 is the perfect size IF they seed the entire field.

If % is your main criteria, I understand your point. My main criteria would be ensuring that the bulk of the tournament field has a real chance to win a game in the tournament. That remains an issue at the FCS level where there is a huge disparity across conferences in the number of scholarships utilized.

[darell1976]

They had 16 teams in DII so I vote for 16.

[walliver]

I'm still a fan of 16. 8 conference champions and 8 at-large.

The NCAA however has decided to offer bids to every conference so 16 no longer works.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'm still a fan of 16. 8 conference champions and 8 at-large.

The NCAA however has decided to offer bids to every conference so 16 no longer works.

I'm from the "who cares" camp. You saw EIU get murdered by SDSU last year. No matter how much else there is, the cream generally rises to the top.

[darell1976]

Then you have the question how many is to many. Look at the NCAA basketball tournament wasn't 64 enough? Now there is what 68 pretty soon it will be 90.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Then you have the question how many is to many. Look at the NCAA basketball tournament wasn't 64 enough? Now there is what 68 pretty soon it will be 90.

64 would be too many. See how that works?

[CID1990]

I think we're at a good number at 24. It gives a few more deserving at large bids a chance, while also allowing some autobid welfare love to the weak conferences.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[cmaxwellgsu]

If the playoffs were still at 16 and everyone was seeded, I would probably want to stay FCS. All the expansion and regionalization does is water everything down. If LeHigh and the other little sisters of the poor want a local tournament, by all means make yourself an FCS version of the NIT.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

If the playoffs were still at 16 and everyone was seeded, I would probably want to stay FCS. All the expansion and regionalization does is water everything down. If LeHigh and the other little sisters of the poor want a local tournament, by all means make yourself an FCS version of the NIT.

afraid of losing to Lehigh? Why wouldn't you let them in?

[cmaxwellgsu]

afraid of losing to Lehigh? Why wouldn't you let them in?

We'd never lose to LeHigh, let alone let them play us close. The frustrating thing to me is all the byes, no or reduced scholly leagues getting auto bids, weak conferences getting at-larges, and the regionalization. It's all a little league, everybody gets a trophy mentality. Simply rank the 16 best and bracket them out and get it going. It's the fairest and most effective way to get a champion. And again, if the leagues that are afraid to go all in for football can play their secondary tournament on the sandlot of their choice.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

We'd never lose to LeHigh, let alone let them play us close. The frustrating thing to me is all the byes, no or reduced scholly leagues getting auto bids, weak conferences getting at-larges, and the regionalization. It's all a little league, everybody gets a trophy mentality. Simply rank the 16 best and bracket them out and get it going. It's the fairest and most effective way to get a champion. And again, if the leagues that are afraid to go all in for football can play their secondary tournament on the sandlot of their choice.

You realize that's pretty much the definition of FBS, right?

As I said earlier, EIU, Colgate, Wagner, Coastal Carolina, and BCU all got beat pretty well eventually.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

We'd never lose to LeHigh, let alone let them play us close.

Please, I'm begging, call our AD and make this happen. At the most convenient available opening if possible. Would the guarantee be six figures, or can your school afford that?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

To illustrate my point earlier. There are 120 FBS teams and 35 Bowl games (all referred to as "championships") That means that a full 29% of teams get a "championship"

With 127 FCS teams and one champion, that means that .007 of FCS teams win a championship every year.

So, now who is in "everybody gets a trophy" land?

[Bisonator]

We'd never lose to LeHigh, let alone let them play us close. The frustrating thing to me is all the byes, no or reduced scholly leagues getting auto bids, weak conferences getting at-larges, and the regionalization. It's all a little league, everybody gets a trophy mentality. Simply rank the 16 best and bracket them out and get it going. It's the fairest and most effective way to get a champion. And again, if the leagues that are afraid to go all in for football can play their secondary tournament on the sandlot of their choice.

So you are OK with the FBS model??? xconfusedx

[cmaxwellgsu]

Please, I'm begging, call our AD and make this happen. At the most convenient available opening if possible. Would the guarantee be six figures, or can your school afford that?

Get on the horn with him, bigshot. I'm sure your blog has tons of pull with his office....xcoffeex

[PAllen]

I'm good with 24. In fact, I'm also good with 20. However, my ideal world would be 32, but ONLY if we could get Ivy and SWAC participation (ie, autobids to EVERY conference in the subdivision). Without their participation, it's not really 20 or 24 out of 120+ programs, it's 20 or 24 out of those that participate (which is much less). Heck, maybe the true ideal would be 28 (top 4 seeds get 1st round bye) with all conferences getting an autobid, but I don't see the SWAC and Ivies being interested.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'm good with 24. In fact, I'm also good with 20. However, my ideal world would be 32, but ONLY if we could get Ivy and SWAC participation (ie, autobids to EVERY conference in the subdivision). Without their participation, it's not really 20 or 24 out of 120+ programs, it's 20 or 24 out of those that participate (which is much less). Heck, maybe the true ideal would be 28 (top 4 seeds get 1st round bye) with all conferences getting an autobid, but I don't see the SWAC and Ivies being interested.

32 is 25% of the field. That's too many. 24 simply fills in the gaps in the first round with play in games in a manner of speaking.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

They kind of already have.


To a degree they have.

But I would hate true regionalization like D2 and D3. You could have 2 or 3 top teams in the same region. I like when teams travel to other areas of the country for playoff games. Plus we would see the same teams over and over in the 1st two rounds.

[cmaxwellgsu]

So you are OK with the FBS model??? xconfusedx

The watered down playoff system has lost its appeal, and we're moving up to face better competition. I have a feeling y'all will be there before too many years go by....

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The watered down playoff system has lost its appeal, and we're moving up to face better competition. I have a feeling y'all will be there before too many years go by....

again, look at the numbers I cited earlier. 70 of 120 teams in FBS make a "championship" game. How is that not watered down?

[Lehigh'98]

Only difference between 16 and 24 is a play in round that really doesn't affect anyone and gives a few teams a small chance to compete. The main reason you don't see many upsets has a lot to do with home field in playoffs. That's why adding teams won't change outcome. If it were neutral fields (which is impossible at this level) you may see more cinderellas every few years or so.

[cmaxwellgsu]

again, look at the numbers I cited earlier. 70 of 120 teams in FBS make a "championship" game. How is that not watered down?

There are only going to be 3 games that even involve the championship. The rest are simply bowls. If you want to count bowls that way, you could count every playoff game as a "championship" game...

[IBleedYellow]

There are only going to be 3 games that even involve the championship. The rest are simply bowls. If you want to count bowls that way, you could count every playoff game as a "championship" game...

They call themselves the "Little Caeser's I suck Dick Bowl CHAMPIONS" They even get rings for it. Your own perception is NOT reality.

[Professor Chaos]

There are only going to be 3 games that even involve the championship. The rest are simply bowls. If you want to count bowls that way, you could count every playoff game as a "championship" game...
Except every playoff game doesn't end with the winning team hoisting a trophy acting like they had a successful season. It's incredibly ironic you would degrade the FCS playoff system as a little league tournament where everybody gets a trophy yet try to prop up the bowl system at the same time.

Here's a good example of a 7-6 Michigan St team (3-5 in the Big Ten) that won the prestigious Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl celebrating with "CHAMPIONS" emblazoned on their commemorative t-shirts:

http://digitalhoopsblast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/michigan-st-buffalowildwings.png


Oh, and they give out offensive and defensive player of the game trophies for this too whereas the only individual game honor in any FCS playoff game is the championship game MVP:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09wN7GW7Li8bB/500x350.jpg

[darell1976]

Except every playoff game doesn't end with the winning team hoisting a trophy acting like they had a successful season. It's incredible ironic you would degrade the FCS playoff system as a little league tournament where everybody gets a trophy yet try to prop up the bowl system at the same time.

Here's a good example of a 7-6 Michigan St team (3-5 in the Big Ten) that won the prestigious Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl celebrating with "CHAMPIONS" emblazoned on their commemorative t-shirts:

http://digitalhoopsblast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/michigan-st-buffalowildwings.png


Oh, and they give out offensive and defensive player of the game trophies for this too whereas the only individual game honor in any FCS playoff game is the championship game MVP:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09wN7GW7Li8bB/500x350.jpg

I am sure BWW gave them all coupons for free wings. xlolx

[Bisonator]

Except every playoff game doesn't end with the winning team hoisting a trophy acting like they had a successful season. It's incredibly ironic you would degrade the FCS playoff system as a little league tournament where everybody gets a trophy yet try to prop up the bowl system at the same time.

Here's a good example of a 7-6 Michigan St team (3-5 in the Big Ten) that won the prestigious Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl celebrating with "CHAMPIONS" emblazoned on their commemorative t-shirts:

http://digitalhoopsblast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/michigan-st-buffalowildwings.png


Oh, and they give out offensive and defensive player of the game trophies for this too whereas the only individual game honor in any FCS playoff game is the championship game MVP:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09wN7GW7Li8bB/500x350.jpg

That's what I was trying to point out. Too funny!

[IBleedYellow]

Wait guys wait! We can't state these things, we're going to be hurting his feelings because this is where his team will be playing now! They'll always be champions now!! Georgia Southern is going to go from 6 Titles to 10 JUST LIKE THAT!