Four D-I FCS Moveups West of the Mississippi?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Are there any sub-D-I schools west of the Mississippi that might consider in the near future moving up to FCS football?

For the sake of argument I'll additionally add San Diego to this discussion, who of course is D-I but compete at the non-scholarship level. Would they possibly move up to 63 scholarship football?

What about Cal State-Fullerton and the other Cal States that were rumored to be restarting football?

[darell1976]

Maybe Sioux Falls but not for quite awhile. A powerhouse in NAIA now in DII plus beat UND in 2010 add that to being located in the largest city in the Dakota's. I wouldn't put it past them to move up, what conference they could go to would be the real question.

[MplsBison]

St. Thomas (St. Paul, MN) is technically east of the Mississippi (less than 1 mile from it), but if there's any school in the Mpls area that could be DI already - they are it.

[Sammy94]

Abilene Christian, Incarnte Word, and Houston Baptist are all moving up.

[darell1976]

St. Thomas (St. Paul, MN) is technically east of the Mississippi (less than 1 mile from it), but if there's any school in the Mpls area that could be DI already - they are it.

With Minnesota's budget problems I can't see any Minnesota team moving up to DI that doesn't have them drop football (like St. Cloud State almost did).

[Dakotaguy74]

Missouri Valley could really use a Minnesota team. SDSU used to compete against St. Cloud back in my day. Or University of Minnesota Duluth I think could go DI football to match their hockey team.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think SD is pretty unlikely to go to scholly ball. The cost of scholarships probably keeps them out of that mix.

[darell1976]

Missouri Valley could really use a Minnesota team. SDSU used to compete against St. Cloud back in my day. Or University of Minnesota Duluth I think could go DI football to match their hockey team.

UMD is a good choice but I wonder if the cost of DI sports would be too much to fund that plus hockey.

[MplsBison]

With Minnesota's budget problems I can't see any Minnesota team moving up to DI that doesn't have them drop football (like St. Cloud State almost did).

St. Thomas is a private school with a $557million endowment (according to wikipedia). They've been pretty good in DIII football lately...I believe they played in the national championship game and lost to Mt. Union.

They've got a law school, engineering school (the only other on in the Twin Cities than Univ of Minnesota, as far as I know) and a business school. Very trendy pick for "private school kids" in the cities for undergrad.

[Laker]

UMD is a good choice but I wonder if the cost of DI sports would be too much to fund that plus hockey.

As good as UMD has been in football with two recent D2 titles, I can't see them shelling out that much money to go FCS. Their other non-hockey sports don't get that much attention.

[darell1976]

St. Thomas is a private school with a $557million endowment (according to wikipedia). They've been pretty good in DIII football lately...I believe they played in the national championship game and lost to Mt. Union.

They've got a law school, engineering school (the only other on in the Twin Cities than Univ of Minnesota, as far as I know) and a business school. Very trendy pick for "private school kids" in the cities for undergrad.

So the only obstacle would be the U of Minnesota (Gophers). I don't think they want another DI team in their backyard.

[wapiti]

I would like to see Central Washington make the jump, but I have no idea about the school's ability or desire to make the jump.

[darell1976]

I would like to see Central Washington make the jump, but I have no idea about the school's ability or desire to make the jump.

They were part of the NCC when we were still in DII. They were a good team and would make a good addition.

[FargoBison]

So the only obstacle would be the U of Minnesota (Gophers). I don't think they want another DI team in their backyard.

St Thomas is a private school, they can do whatever they want. That said they are looking at about a 10 year transition into DI.

[IBleedYellow]

St Thomas is a private school, they can do whatever they want. That said they are looking at about a 10 year transition into DI.

Yeah, I heard rumors about that for the past 2 years from some St Thomas friends.

[MplsBison]

Yep. Huge barrier to entry and probably will prevent them from ever considering it until such a requirement is lifted.

It's too bad because they certainly could be a nice FCS and Division I private school if they had an opportunity to rise up and meet that occasion.

[frozennorth]

UMD should be playing at the d1 level.

edit: also, I think UNO will eventually bring back football

[Laker]

UMD should be playing at the d1 level.

edit: also, I think UNO will eventually bring back football

UMD should have but with the divide and conquer strategy of UMTC they won't.

I hope that UNO runs Trey out on a rail.

[TheRevSFA]

Tarleton state, Texas a&m-kingsville, Arkansas tech

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

UMD should be playing at the d1 level.

edit: also, I think UNO will eventually bring back football



No they shouldn't. UMD will never move to D1 in their other sports. They do not have the $$ for it.

UNO dropped football and their most successful sport, wrestling, which had won multiple NCs. UNO will not be adding football back again.

[downbythebeach]

St. Thomas would be a great addition to FCS
They should probably already be in it...have a decent stadium, and fan support comparable to private FCS schools

[Laker]

St. Thomas would be a great addition to FCS
They should probably already be in it...have a decent stadium, and fan support comparable to private FCS schools

There is a different thought process in the MIAC. St. John's and St. Thomas outdraw D2 teams in Minnesota- there is tremendous loyalty and $$$$ that pours in. But they would prefer the big fish/small pond scenario. St. Thomas talked about it back in the early 80s but never pulled the trigger. It isn't that they couldn't do it- but I don't think that they want to. I bet that they are the only school in the country whose games are broadcast on a clear channel radio station, WCCO 830, who did the Gophers games forever.

[clenz]

No they shouldn't. UMD will never move to D1 in their other sports. They do not have the $$ for it.

UNO dropped football and their most successful sport, wrestling, which had won multiple NCs. UNO will not be adding football back again.
They dropped those because of UNL....and the way the athletic departments/system there is set up.


It was clear that UNL would never let there be another D1 football or wrestling program in that state. The AD at UNO is a pawn for UNL.

[ccd494]

They dropped those because of UNL....and the way the athletic departments/system there is set up.


It was clear that UNL would never let there be another D1 football or wrestling program in that state. The AD at UNO is a pawn for UNL.

He also got them into the WCHA and then the NCHC for hockey. He's getting them a sparkling new on campus arena. UNO football was never going to surpass UNL football. UNO hoops will never outdraw Creighton basketball. He picked a sport that UNO can be THE team in Nebraska for (and a sport that is popular in Nebraska- the USHL draws very well there).

[BluBengal07]

Abilene Christian, Incarnte Word, and Houston Baptist are all moving up.

Doesn't Incarnate Word have FBS ambitions and plan to move quickly into FBS like UTSA(who skipped the FCS route after creation)?

[TheRevSFA]

While they aren't west of the Mississippi, Delta State would be a great addition to FCS

[darell1976]

You also have DII powerhouses in Grand Valley State and North Alabama again not west of the Mississippi but a couple teams that could make for some good additions as well.

[MplsBison]

He also got them into the WCHA and then the NCHC for hockey. He's getting them a sparkling new on campus arena. UNO football was never going to surpass UNL football. UNO hoops will never outdraw Creighton basketball. He picked a sport that UNO can be THE team in Nebraska for (and a sport that is popular in Nebraska- the USHL draws very well there).

Couldn't agree with you more! Even that new arena is designed first and foremost for hockey:

http://omavs.com/images/2011/10/12/medium_Render_02web.jpg


Football is owned by Nebraska with Iowa and Kansas schools across the borders. Basketball is owned by Creighton with Nebraska making a big investment to improve and again Iowa and Kansas schools across the borders.

UNO has nothing to offer in either of those sports.


They can be and as far as I know are the kings of hockey in the region. No college or major pro hockey in Iowa or Kansas (City).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So let's say, for the sake of argument (not that I'm saying this will definitely happen, but...)

* Grand Valley State, Central Washington, Minn-Duluth, and UNO all want to move up

I picked these names since they're all D-II schools (I think) and all of them seem to have at least the possibility of success at FCS football. (I didn't include the D-III schools since they need to transition to D-II, then D-I. While we're on the subject of D-IIIs, a bit surprised nobody mention Wisconsin-Whitewater.) While I trust clenz that UNO won't be playing FCS football, I included them since they seemed like a stronger candidate than Arkansas Tech.

This would make a 27 school stretch from Youngstown State to Portland State, enough for 3 FCS conferences. And I can't envision the breakdown of the MVFC and Big Sky balloon to 16 and 11 schools, or 15 and 12, etc. Wouldn't there have to be Summit football, or some new football construct, with or without the Dakotas?

Having said that, it's wicked hard to picture NDSU & SDSU leaving the MVFC for an unproven conference like the Summit in football, no matter what the makeup is. What I could see, however, is the Summit losing NDSU & SDSU to the MVFC, and the Summit starting up with something like this, maybe:

Western Illinois
UND
USD
Grand Valley State?
Minn-Duluth?
UNO?
Northern Colorado?
Idaho State?

Thoughts? The Summit needs members to replace its departing schools, and the three move-ups + football would probably offer some more stability. Denver/Northern Colorado might work in other sports, and while the Big Sky would lose two members they would be at a more manageable football number and perhaps even might allow them to add a school like Central Washington.

[MplsBison]

Omaha is transitioning to Division I and already members of the Summit League. They'll be active Division I starting with the 2015-16 season.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Omaha is transitioning to Division I and already members of the Summit League. They'll be active Division I starting with the 2015-16 season.

Thanks. So, they and Denver will still be around. Effectively the Summit would lose NDSU & SDSU and gain UND, USD, Northern Colorado, Grand Valley State and UMD. Plenty of schools to keep the thing together, with football being a big part of the glue.

UMD is probably the one I'm the least confident about here.

[darell1976]

So let's say, for the sake of argument (not that I'm saying this will definitely happen, but...)

* Grand Valley State, Central Washington, Minn-Duluth, and UNO all want to move up

I picked these names since they're all D-II schools (I think) and all of them seem to have at least the possibility of success at FCS football. (I didn't include the D-III schools since they need to transition to D-II, then D-I. While we're on the subject of D-IIIs, a bit surprised nobody mention Wisconsin-Whitewater.) While I trust clenz that UNO won't be playing FCS football, I included them since they seemed like a stronger candidate than Arkansas Tech.

This would make a 27 school stretch from Youngstown State to Portland State, enough for 3 FCS conferences. And I can't envision the breakdown of the MVFC and Big Sky balloon to 16 and 11 schools, or 15 and 12, etc. Wouldn't there have to be Summit football, or some new football construct, with or without the Dakotas?

Having said that, it's wicked hard to picture NDSU & SDSU leaving the MVFC for an unproven conference like the Summit in football, no matter what the makeup is. What I could see, however, is the Summit losing NDSU & SDSU to the MVFC, and the Summit starting up with something like this, maybe:

Western Illinois
UND
USD
Grand Valley State?
Minn-Duluth?
UNO?
Northern Colorado?
Idaho State?

Thoughts? The Summit needs members to replace its departing schools, and the three move-ups + football would probably offer some more stability. Denver/Northern Colorado might work in other sports, and while the Big Sky would lose two members they would be at a more manageable football number and perhaps even might allow them to add a school like Central Washington.

Due to the political backlash between Summit Commissioner Tom Douple and the University of North Dakota, I don't think UND will ever be in the Summit League. UND had a chance in baseball but the SL didn't approve UND's application so UND joined the WAC. That there proves Douple can't be trusted, and UND wants no part of his so-called league.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Due to the political backlash between Summit Commissioner Tom Douple and the University of North Dakota, I don't think UND will ever be in the Summit League. UND had a chance in baseball but the SL didn't approve UND's application so UND joined the WAC. That there proves Douple can't be trusted, and UND wants no part of his so-called league.

Funny, replace UND with NDSU and Tom Douple with Doug Fullerton and you have the answer to your own OP.

[Bisonator]

Due to the political backlash between Summit Commissioner Tom Douple and the University of North Dakota, I don't think UND will ever be in the Summit League. UND had a chance in baseball but the SL didn't approve UND's application so UND joined the WAC. That there proves Douple can't be trusted, and UND wants no part of his so-called league.

Want a tissue? xbawlingx

[MplsBison]

Funny, replace UND with NDSU and Tom Douple with Doug Fullerton and you have the answer to your own OP.

Except that's not true anymore. Gene Taylor is the only person who may harbor personal feelings of angst towards the Big Sky. NDSU's current president doesn't.

[darell1976]

Want a tissue? xbawlingx

What for? Douple is a tool plain and simple, and I and most UND fans would be pissed if Faison decides to leave the BSC/WAC for the Slummit League.

[MplsBison]

What for? Douple is a tool plain and simple, and I and most UND fans would be pissed if Faison decides to leave the BSC/WAC for the Slummit League.

Guaranteed it won't happen, so long as UND has a say in it.

There is no spot for UND in the MVFC. The rest of the Missouri Valley schools hate the Dakotas and probably wish they could go back to the good ole' Gateway days. No way another Dakota school gets added.

And without that spot, there's no way UND will play independent FCS football.

[JSUBison]

Lehigh- I mentioned it in another thread, but I think Pittsburg State (Kansas) would be a good add to whatever conference added them. If they wanted to move up. I don't frequent the D2 messageboards, so I don't know, they may be perfectly happy in D2. You could look around here and see what the chatter is: http://www.d2football.com/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh- I mentioned it in another thread, but I think Pittsburg State (Kansas) would be a good add to whatever conference added them. If they wanted to move up. I don't frequent the D2 messageboards, so I don't know, they may be perfectly happy in D2. You could look around here and see what the chatter is: http://www.d2football.com/

Thanks, I will. They too would be an interesting add in the Summit, probably better (and more likely) than UMD.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Lehigh- I mentioned it in another thread, but I think Pittsburg State (Kansas) would be a good add to whatever conference added them. If they wanted to move up. I don't frequent the D2 messageboards, so I don't know, they may be perfectly happy in D2. You could look around here and see what the chatter is: http://www.d2football.com/

I was kind of thinking the same thing about Emporia but they both seem pretty small for that big a budget.

[MplsBison]

Emporia and Pittsburgh are the Kansas equivalents of Mayville and Valley City in North Dakota. They're just DII instead of NAIA because Kansas is bigger than ND. I doubt either have the institutional size or state funding/support to ever consider DI.

Perhaps Central and NW Missouri have a chance, a little bit bigger and not unreasonably far from Kansas City.


Of the MIAA schools, I'd actually say Central Oklahoma has the best chance. 18k enrollment and in the OKC metro.

[Bisonoline]

They were part of the NCC when we were still in DII. They were a good team and would make a good addition.

Central WA. was in the NCC????

[darell1976]

Central WA. was in the NCC????

After UNC, and the SU's left Central Washington and Minnesota-Duluth joined.

[Laker]

Central WA. was in the NCC????

Central Washington and Western Washington were in the NCC for football only for two seasons. Mankato beat both of them on the road and lost to both at home. Since then Western dropped football despite a huge money raising effort by boosters- the administration just didn't want it.

[Bisonoline]

Thanks guys! Obviously I missed that when I went through a busy part of life and lost touch with what was going on.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Thanks guys! Obviously I missed that when I went through a busy part of life and lost touch with what was going on.

That goes away? Good to know.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

They dropped those because of UNL....and the way the athletic departments/system there is set up.


It was clear that UNL would never let there be another D1 football or wrestling program in that state. The AD at UNO is a pawn for UNL.


I can see FB but wrestling gives out only 9.9 schollies at the D1 level. Nebraska could support 2 wrestling schools in the state. UNO would have made a nice addition to the WWC.

In fact, with UNO's pedigree in wrestling, they probably would have been a better wrestling program compared to UNL in a few years.

[clenz]

I can see FB but wrestling gives out only 9.9 schollies at the D1 level. Nebraska could support 2 wrestling schools in the state. UNO would have made a nice addition to the WWC.

In fact, with UNO's pedigree in wrestling, they probably would have been a better wrestling program compared to UNL in a few years.

It had nothing with being able to support two programs....it had everything to do with the fact UNL doesn't want 2 d1 football and wrestling programs on the state.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2

[MplsBison]

Hmm...yes and I suppose $999.99 and $0.01 add up to $1000.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

It had nothing with being able to support two programs....it had everything to do with the fact UNL doesn't want 2 d1 football and wrestling programs on the state.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2


I just went back and read articles on this and there is nothing about what you claim. Alberts says UNO couldn't afford to fund both of those programs at the D1 level. Probably some Title IX issues also.

Your argument about FB probably has some merit but wrestling could have stayed IMO. The Cornhuskers have never had a great wrestling program. There are a ton of very good HS wrestlers in the Midwest, too bad UNO dropped the program.

[Bisonwinagn]

I can see FB but wrestling gives out only 9.9 schollies at the D1 level. Nebraska could support 2 wrestling schools in the state. UNO would have made a nice addition to the WWC.

In fact, with UNO's pedigree in wrestling, they probably would have been a better wrestling program compared to UNL in a few years.

UNO should focus on baseball and try get to the world series in their hometown.

[clenz]

I just went back and read articles on this and there is nothing about what you claim. Alberts says UNO couldn't afford to fund both of those programs at the D1 level. Probably some Title IX issues also.

Your argument about FB probably has some merit but wrestling could have stayed IMO. The Cornhuskers have never had a great wrestling program. There are a ton of very good HS wrestlers in the Midwest, too bad UNO dropped the program.Of course what I'm saying will never be in a news article, said by Alberts, UNO/UNL admin, or the Nebraska BOR.

UNL has a very large mental complex. If they could find a way to force Creighton out of D1 they would.

UNL wants to be THE ONLY D1 program in the state. The problem for them is Creighton is private and been D1 forever. The fact that the Nebraska system allowed to move up was a shock to begin with.

It was said on every message board when the move happened, ask any UNO fb/wrestling fan, or anyone dealing with the situation back at that time.

Trev Alberts is a pawn for UNL at UNO. He wants nothing more than that AD job at UNL, and is willing to do anything to get it. It doesn't matter UNO was competitive at the D2 level and could have been in D1 in wreslting/football. That is exactly what UNL didn't want.


Again, the drop had nothing to do with support, nothing to do with if they could be competitive, had nothing to do with ANYTHING other than UNL doesn't want another D1 football/wrestling program in the state. They knew UNO would never over take them in any other sports (they know that to be the case in wrestling and football as well, but why give them a chance?).

That same situation plays out in Minnesota and Wisconsin. The Gophers/Minnesota BOR (or whatever their called) won't allow another D1 football program in the state from a state run university. Same in Wisconsin. There is only 1 state D1 university in each state with football, and that will NEVER change (1 total in MN and a handful total in WI but one is private and the others are state schools who get a fraction of a fraction of support as UW-M)


It's not hard to understand.

[MplsBison]

It's not hard to understand for football.

But wrestling? I hardly think that factored into the equation. Probably a victim of title IX, just like many, many college wrestling programs.

[clenz]

It's not hard to understand for football.

But wrestling? I hardly think that factored into the equation. Probably a victim of title IX, just like many, many college wrestling programs.
With only 9.9 scholarships it had nothing to do with Title IX



I don't get why you people can't grasp this...

It had nothing to do with anything other than UNL not wanting other D1 programs in the state. The Nebraska BOR is going to do pretty much whatever UNL wants. UNL didn't want other football and wrestling programs...UNL "told" Alberts if he wanted anything to do with UNL in the future that needed to happen. Alberts got approval, which wasn't hard, from the BOR and it happened.


Why else do you think that the wrestling team got back from winning the national title and literally were locked out of the locker room less than 24 hours after the meet ended?

[Laker]

Why else do you think that the wrestling team got back from winning the national title and literally were locked out of the locker room less than 24 hours after the meet ended?

Clenz is right- they had changed the locks before the wrestlers got back from winning the title. I can't imagine the mood change between hoisting the trophy and being treated like second class criminals.

[clenz]

To be completely honest, a good number of us FCS schools would never be allowed to move D1 if we were trying to make the move now.

I can say with 98% certainty that UNI wouldn't be allowed to move up. The Iowa BOR/funding model is so ****ed up that UNI doesn't get any support right now. The support would NEVER be given for a move from D2 to D1. The University of Iowa and Iowa State would squash any idea of that within .00001 seconds of it being mentioned.

The fact is that right now state schools in the big time conferences don't want ANYTHING as a threat - doesn't matter how big or little that threat is. The fact they allowed UNO to move up at all is shocking as hell....and was only because UNL doesn't give a **** about basketball and doesn't have hockey....and they wanted a school to try to steal *some* thunder from Creighton (also in Omaha and less than 4 miles down the road... literally straight down Dodge St in Omaha) anyway possible.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is simply the dirty side of having a big money, big athletics flagship in your state. When you have a revenue stream, you fight to protect that revenue stream, even if it means crushing the hopes and dreams of other schools. It also explains the "lack of support of the FCS playoff model" as well - it's all a threat to the status quo.

[MplsBison]

clenz, you can think what you want but I just don't buy it in regards to wrestling. Yes changing the locks is a douche move, but it wasn't because Nebraska only wanted one DI wrestling team in the state.

You make it sound like it was a mafia deal or something. "You's guys tink you can come up in eeehh an start wreslin' DI??? Dat ain't capeesh.... gonna have tah break ya legs..."


There's like 3 people in Nebraska who care about college wrestling. Football -> yes. Wrestling, no. Sorry.


If your argument held water, then why just stop at wrestling? Why not only one DI track team in the state? Creighton does not have track either, but Omaha does.

[clenz]

To be a D1 institution you must carry 14 sports, UNO is currently at 14 (I believe XC and TF are counted as one sport since scholarship allotment is lumped together)....also UNO doesn't have mens tracka and field. Womens sure, but like I said already at the minimum and UNL doesn't give a **** about another womens track team.


You can believe it's all about Title IX and funding if you want, the fact is, it's not. Nebraska knows UNO's baseball team will never come close to UNL, or even Creighton. UNL has averaged 40 wins per season since 1999 and 37 since 1991 with 98 All Americans coming into this year.

Creighton has multiple MVC championships (the MVC is a very good baseball league), plays their games in TD Ameritrade Park, played their home games before that at Rosenblatt. Averaged roughly 34 wins per season for the last decade, multiple 40+ win seasons, etc...


In UNO's first season playing a mostly D1 schedule - 12 wins.

I know you don't/won't comprehend it because you are like that. Doesn't change the fact that is was like a "mafia" deal.

[344Johnson]

What for? Douple is a tool plain and simple, and I and most UND fans would be pissed if Faison decides to leave the BSC/WAC for the Slummit League.

I actually imagine that the typical UND fan(not hardcore online posters) would be thrilled to be back with NDSU, USD, and SDSU. Attendance for games would grow.


ON TOPIC: Would be nice for there to be more FCS schools out here.

[darell1976]

I actually imagine that the typical UND fan(not hardcore online posters) would be thrilled to be back with NDSU, USD, and SDSU. Attendance for games would grow.


ON TOPIC: Would be nice for there to be more FCS schools out here.

Especially in this part of the country. There are only 2 FCS teams in ND, 2 in SD, zero in MN, and Wisconsin. I don't see any ND teams moving up but it would be nice.

[MplsBison]

To be a D1 institution you must carry 14 sports, UNO is currently at 14 (I believe XC and TF are counted as one sport since scholarship allotment is lumped together)....also UNO doesn't have mens tracka and field. Womens sure, but like I said already at the minimum and UNL doesn't give a **** about another womens track team.


You can believe it's all about Title IX and funding if you want, the fact is, it's not. Nebraska knows UNO's baseball team will never come close to UNL, or even Creighton. UNL has averaged 40 wins per season since 1999 and 37 since 1991 with 98 All Americans coming into this year.

Creighton has multiple MVC championships (the MVC is a very good baseball league), plays their games in TD Ameritrade Park, played their home games before that at Rosenblatt. Averaged roughly 34 wins per season for the last decade, multiple 40+ win seasons, etc...


In UNO's first season playing a mostly D1 schedule - 12 wins.

I know you don't/won't comprehend it because you are like that. Doesn't change the fact that is was like a "mafia" deal.

As many people in Nebraska care about women's track as wrestling - basically no one. This is the point I keep trying to get across to you but you keep skipping over.

Again - why would Nebraska allowed Omaha to keep another sport that Creighton does not have and therefore Omaha would be the only DI competition in the state: women's track.

You can't just arbitrarily say that it works for wrestling but not women's track. Sorry.


Baseball is a red herring because Creighton already has it, so Omaha isn't the only competition in the state.

[MplsBison]

I actually imagine that the typical UND fan(not hardcore online posters) would be thrilled to be back with NDSU, USD, and SDSU. Attendance for games would grow.


ON TOPIC: Would be nice for there to be more FCS schools out here.

Yes, but who wants to pay for 63 scholarships when you only get the same promotion and media coverage as DII??

There are very few DII schools in the country that could justify the huge cost increase from DII football to FCS football in their minds just from the improvement in talent on the field, which is only noticeable change to fans of the team (due to the aforementioned lack of promotion by the NCAA or media coverage).

Most of such schools have already made the move by now. I can think of teams like North Alabama and Grand Valley St that may fall into the above category.

[Dakotaguy74]

Too bad no schools in Minnesota or Wisconsin aspire to grow to the FCS football ranks. Seems like looking at the growth SDSU and NDSU have had after their successful jumps up more upper midwest schools would be tempted. And I think in the not to distant future the lower level FBS schools are getting frozen out. The SEC's $80 TV deal? Alabama spending a reported $5 million dollars to attend the championship game?????? Are you freaking kidding me? FCS football's future is bright. Maybe we're not Hollywood blockbuster big. We're more like underground independent quality movie big.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

With only 9.9 scholarships it had nothing to do with Title IX



I don't get why you people can't grasp this...

It had nothing to do with anything other than UNL not wanting other D1 programs in the state. The Nebraska BOR is going to do pretty much whatever UNL wants. UNL didn't want other football and wrestling programs...UNL "told" Alberts if he wanted anything to do with UNL in the future that needed to happen. Alberts got approval, which wasn't hard, from the BOR and it happened.


Why else do you think that the wrestling team got back from winning the national title and literally were locked out of the locker room less than 24 hours after the meet ended?




OK, I'll go with the FB angle but why wrestling clenz?

Nebraska's wrestling program has never been in the upper echelon of great wrestling schools. Why would they care if Omaha came into D1 with wrestling? Why does UNL not care that Omaha is coming in with men's BB? UNL's men's BB team draws a lot more $$ attendance-wise compared to wrestling. Seems to me if UNL doesn't want another D1 school moving up in the state then men's BB would be included. Men's BB as a whole generates a ton more money compared to wrestling.

Plus with only 9.9 schollies the $$ is hardly a issue. Omaha would have been invited to the WWC and been a great addition now that UNI has left for the MAC.

[MplsBison]

I already tried (see post 62). He didn't respond.

[clenz]

OK, I'll go with the FB angle but why wrestling clenz?

Nebraska's wrestling program has never been in the upper echelon of great wrestling schools. Why would they care if Omaha came into D1 with wrestling? Why does UNL not care that Omaha is coming in with men's BB? UNL's men's BB team draws a lot more $$ attendance-wise compared to wrestling. Seems to me if UNL doesn't want another D1 school moving up in the state then men's BB would be included. Men's BB as a whole generates a ton more money compared to wrestling.

Plus with only 9.9 schollies the $$ is hardly a issue. Omaha would have been invited to the WWC and been a great addition now that UNI has left for the MAC.
Why wrestling? Because they don't want another wrestling program in the state. I don't know why you can't understand that. MPLS I understand, most on people on the short bus struggle to understand things.

They know they couldn't stop them from going D1 completely. They know that they couldn't touch basketball, name me one D1 school without basketball. Losing basketball would cripple any athletic department and they may as well drop athletics. However, football and wrestling are the two things UNL actually care about. They can't stop Creighton from them (though Creighton doesn't have them) because they are a private school. However, with the way the UN school system is set up, and with Alberts the AD at UNO they knew that they could keep them from having football and wrestling.

There isn't a big reason behind it, other than simply that UNL didn't want it to happen.

They don't care that there is a second softball, womens track and field, etc... team in the state because they don't. Womens sports have less than zero impact in anything related to the business of D1 athletics.

Money isn't the issue.....past success isn't the issue....nothing is an "issue" other than UNL's complex.

[GoAgs72]

I just don't see any California teams moving up. Talk is cheap as far as Fullerton, Long Beach State, etc. are concerned. We are lucky to have maintained four FCS teams and a couple of D2 teams. Football is just too expensive for most state or private schools in California. Many of the colleges in the 30,000 student range don't have football here.

[coover]

I just don't see any California teams moving up. Talk is cheap as far as Fullerton, Long Beach State, etc. are concerned. We are lucky to have maintained four FCS teams and a couple of D2 teams. Football is just too expensive for most state or private schools in California. Many of the colleges in the 30,000 student range don't have football here.

Fullerton and Long Beach both dropped Football programs for two reasons ... football became very expensive when California State law and Federal Law made it mandatory that there be as many athletic scholarships for women as men and they found they couldn't compete with Pac - (8)(10)(12) schools for fans and money. The second problem for the two Los Angeles area schools was caused because the major media was (and still is) only interested in UCLA and USC ... other schools sports programs are simply ignored by the newspapers and television, and even though the Fullerton and Long Beach are very large schools, nobody, including the Student Body really cared. San Diego State, because it was outside of the Los Angeles area, survived, as did Fresno State for the same reason. Cal Poly, 150 miles north and south of major population centers survived, too, by continuing to play lower division (first DII, and then FCS) football, never, really, trying to compete with the large schools to the south or the north. Frankly, I am really surprised that football survived at San Jose State, which competes for fans and money with Stanford and Cal Berkeley. Davis and Sacramento, too survived only because they did not attempt to compete with Stanford and Cal, and the fact that they, too, are not really close to them.

It is my opinion that the two schools mentioned, though there is a certain amount of interest on their campuses and in their communities for football, will never, ever again field a football team. They simply cannot afford it.

[MplsBison]

coover, what do you mean by the statement "try to compete with ..." ? I find that statement and the gist of your argument to be specious.

Also, title IX does not require equal athletic scholarships for women as there are for men. It requires that no discrimination on the basis of sex be allowed for any educational program funded by federal sources.

[MplsBison]

Why wrestling? Because they don't want another wrestling program in the state. I don't know why you can't understand that. MPLS I understand, most on people on the short bus struggle to understand things.

They know they couldn't stop them from going D1 completely. They know that they couldn't touch basketball, name me one D1 school without basketball. Losing basketball would cripple any athletic department and they may as well drop athletics. However, football and wrestling are the two things UNL actually care about. They can't stop Creighton from them (though Creighton doesn't have them) because they are a private school. However, with the way the UN school system is set up, and with Alberts the AD at UNO they knew that they could keep them from having football and wrestling.

There isn't a big reason behind it, other than simply that UNL didn't want it to happen.

They don't care that there is a second softball, womens track and field, etc... team in the state because they don't. Womens sports have less than zero impact in anything related to the business of D1 athletics.

Money isn't the issue.....past success isn't the issue....nothing is an "issue" other than UNL's complex.

You've yet to make any kind of argument or provide any kind of reasoning that is even coherent.

Simply you keep saying over and over that Nebraska decided to kill Omaha's wrestling program, basically for no reason. That doesn't hold water.

[coover]

coover, what do you mean by the statement "try to compete with ..." ? I find that statement and the gist of your argument to be specious.

Also, title IX does not require equal athletic scholarships for women as there are for men. It requires that no discrimination on the basis of sex be allowed for any educational program funded by federal sources.

"try to compete with ..."? --- Cal Poly has never tried to compete with UCLA, Southern California, Stanford, or U California for fans, realizing that these 4 Pacific (8)(10)(12) get virtually all sport media exposure in the Los Angeles area and San Francisco area, and that "little" Cal Poly will be (and is) completely ignored. Poly's fans will be mostly from students, alumni, and the good folks that live in the Central California Coastal areas.

You are correct regarding YOUR statement on title IX, but if you go back to my original statement, you will notice that I included the words Federal and California State Law". California State Law made it such that PUBLIC schools within the State of California must offer as many scholarships to women as they do to men. The result is that the largest State in the Union (population wise) only fields 5 Public University FBS Football programs (San Diego State, Fresno State, San Jose State, UCLA, U California), 3 Public University FCS programs (Cal Poly, Sacramento State, UC Davis), and only 1 Public University Division II program (Humboldt State), 9 total Public Football programs in a State with 32 Public Universities, barely a quarter of the schools, many, if not most with student populations larger than 20,000.

At least 11 of the remaining 23 Public Universities have had Division I or II football teams in the past ... Cal Poly - Pomona; Cal State campuses at Chico, Fullerton, Long Beach, Los Angeles, Northridge, Stanislaus, San Francisco, and Sonoma; and University of California campuses at Riverside and Santa Barbara. The 11 named were eliminated because they couldn't compete with the big time schools (now FBS) for the money necessary to run the program or because of the State of Californias laws on gender equality.

[DFW HOYA]

St. Thomas (MN) looking for a home with "all options on the table". They were kicked out of their conference for being, well, too good.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/05/22/whats-next-for-st-thomas-athletics-all-options-are-on-the-table/

[PAllen]

St. Thomas (MN) looking for a home with "all options on the table". They were kicked out of their conference for being, well, too good.

https://www.twincities.com/2019/05/22/whats-next-for-st-thomas-athletics-all-options-are-on-the-table/

I hear UWGB might be looking for a conference mate. Although "all options" usually refers to dropping sports, not moving up.

[Bisonator]

I hear UWGB might be looking for a conference mate. Although "all options" usually refers to dropping sports, not moving up.

Not in St. Thomas's case. They won't be dropping anything.

[Anthony215]

I think ST will probably end up moving up to D2 and competing in the NISC which they will be able to compete immediately for a league title...

[wapiti]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30543&stc=1

Dixie State is moving up.

[Mike296]

I hear UWGB might be looking for a conference mate. Although "all options" usually refers to dropping sports, not moving up.

This is becoming more of a possibility and reports from within say they might look to play a few games at Lambeau Field if they can get the packers to agree to it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lucchesicourt]

"Davis and Sacramento, too survived only because they did not attempt to compete with Stanford and Cal, and the fact that they, too, are not really close to them."

Actually UC Davis has daily buses to Berkeley or did when I attended Davis back in the 70's.

So, 50 miles really isn't that far in CA.