3 Divisions of Football

[IBleedYellow]

I have to agree with this article.

It also re-enforces why I prefer to currently be in the "lower" tier of DI football.

Three Divisions of DI Football (http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/700-the-three-subdivisions-of-college-football)

I'd be willing to argue that there are even more tiers:

BCS
FBS
FCS
FCS - Less Scholarships
FCS - No Scholarships

[darell1976]

Who would be in the less scholarship level? How many teams are at this level now?

[danefan]

I think there is really 4 subdivisions right now that will turn into 3.

1. Big 5
2. All other FBS
3. Scholarship/Playoff FCS
4. Non-Scholarship & Non-Playoff FCS

[IBleedYellow]

Who would be in the less scholarship level? How many teams are at this level now?

Pioneer League - No athletic.
Patriot League - Will only allow 60 instead of 63. But that will take four years to get there at only 15/year.

[danefan]

Pioneer League - No athletic.
Patriot League - Will only allow 60 instead of 63. But that will take four years to get there at only 15/year.

NEC - 40 athletic rides but somehow still are counters for FBS games (at least according to Wagner)

[IBleedYellow]

NEC - 40 athletic rides but somehow still are counters for FBS games (at least according to Wagner)


Ahh, my bad. I forgot about the NEC and we probably can put the Ivy League in there too since they don't compete against most of the FCS.

[appvette]

The author needs a lesson in taxonomy.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I have to agree with this article.

It also re-enforces why I prefer to currently be in the "lower" tier of DI football.

Three Divisions of DI Football (http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/700-the-three-subdivisions-of-college-football)

I'd be willing to argue that there are even more tiers:

BCS
FBS
FCS
FCS - Less Scholarships
FCS - No Scholarships

There always seems to be a prophecy that the elite FCS teams and the bottom of FBS will eventually break off from their respective divisions and form a fourth football division. I remember in the late 90s people on the GSU board talking about this and how it was supposedly just around the corner. It was the whole rationale for GSU to not make the move to IA back in that time. I will believe this is going to happen it when I see it actually on the NCAA table.

[Saint3333]

I may be in the minority here (and may be surprising to many here) but I wouldn't mind being in a subdivision that consisted of the non BCS FBS members and the top 30 FCS programs.

Currently that isn't an option which is why I prefer FBS over FCS.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

There always seems to be a prophecy that the elite FCS teams and the bottom of FBS will eventually break off from their respective divisions and form a fourth football division. I remember in the late 90s people on the GSU board talking about this and how it was supposedly just around the corner. It was the whole rationale for GSU to not make the move to IA back in that time. I will believe this is going to happen it when I see it actually on the NCAA table.

I think it's a popular opinion because it's essentially already that.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I may be in the minority here (and may be surprising to many here) but I wouldn't mind being in a subdivision that consisted of the non BCS FBS members and the top 30 FCS programs.

Currently that isn't an option which is why I prefer FBS over FCS.

I don't think you are in a minority unless we are both there alone. IF that were to occur and there was a way that they had a playoff within this division I think as long as it wasn't financially backwards and there was a playoff there then you'd probably see entire FCS conferences looking at it with a more open eye.

So basically, the FCS with more scholarships if it could be accomodated financially.

[Franks Tanks]

NEC - 40 athletic rides but somehow still are counters for FBS games (at least according to Wagner)

It seems many MEAC and SWAC schols have less than the 63. I wouldn't be shocked of some if the Big South/OVC schools are also a bit short. Even URI is supposed to be well below 63 most years.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I see 5 classifications:

1 plays 1, 2, 3

2 plays 1, 2, 3, 4

3 plays 1, 2, 3, 4

4 plays 2, 3, 4, 5, and D2

5 plays 3, 4, 5 and D2


1 NFL Minor League - 20 schools who have a snowball's chance in hell of winning a BCS National Championship.

2 Big College - 35 schools with average attendance above 40K

3 Small College - 50 schools with average attendance between 18K-39K (about 5 FCS schools)

4 Other College - 30 schools with average attendance between 10K-15K (about 10 FBS schools)

5 Yes, they play football - the rest in D1 who field football teams. These include Ivy, HBCU, and small privates.

[DFW HOYA]

I see 5 classifications:
1 NFL Minor League - 20 schools who have a snowball's chance in hell of winning a BCS National Championship.
2 Big College - 35 schools with average attendance above 40K
3 Small College - 50 schools with average attendance between 18K-39K (about 5 FCS schools)
4 Other College - 30 schools with average attendance between 10K-15K (about 10 FBS schools)
5 Yes, they play football - the rest in D1 who field football teams. These include Ivy, HBCU, and small privates.

Except that...
1. How do you define which 20 schools? There are probably 40 in the discussion over any one decade, e.g., Michigan State can't win the title now, but could if the stars aligned.

2. Group 2: Attendance above 40K: Only 57 I-A schools even meet this standard. Take out the top 20, 30, whatever, and you're not left with much.

3. Group 3: 18-39K Attendance: Your're left with 50 I-A schools and eight I-AA, four of which are moving up.

4. Group 4-10-18K: Maybe a dozen in I-AA and 35-30 in I-AA, including half the Ivies.

5. Group 5: 0-10K: That leaves, what, 70 I-AA schools, or roughly St. Francis to UC Davis.

Attendance criteria doesn't work, nor enrollment, and this discussion never considers conference membership.

[PAllen]

I have to agree with this article.

It also re-enforces why I prefer to currently be in the "lower" tier of DI football.

Three Divisions of DI Football (http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/700-the-three-subdivisions-of-college-football)

I'd be willing to argue that there are even more tiers:

BCS
FBS
FCS
FCS - Less Scholarships
FCS - No Scholarships


I love these comments from "the big boys". So you want your part of FCS to exclude: The Pioneer, Patriot, Ivy, MEAC, SWAC, Big South, most of the OVC, and some of the SLC, SoCon, CAA, ... So you end up with your idea of your entire subdivision being made up of your school, your school's rivals, and teams you've played against in the playoffs. That's not a subdivision folks, that's a conference, "superconference" maybe, but a conference. All so that you don't have to risk or share your ever diminishing glory with those unworthy masses. This is the kind of crap I'm not going to miss from App State fans, but I guess we have a new group of joyous opinions to deal with from the northern plains.

[FargoBison]

I love these comments from "the big boys". So you want your part of FCS to exclude: The Pioneer, Patriot, Ivy, MEAC, SWAC, Big South, most of the OVC, and some of the SLC, SoCon, CAA, ... So you end up with your idea of your entire subdivision being made up of your school, your school's rivals, and teams you've played against in the playoffs. That's not a subdivision folks, that's a conference, "superconference" maybe, but a conference. All so that you don't have to risk or share your ever diminishing glory with those unworthy masses. This is the kind of crap I'm not going to miss from App State fans, but I guess we have a new group of joyous opinions to deal with from the northern plains.

Except he didn't say that...all he did was state the truth.

BCS(top 5 conferences)
FBS(bottom 5 conferences)
FCS(MVFC, Big Sky, CAA, SoCon, SLC, OVC and MEAC)
FCS Limited- NEC, Big South(not sure where they fit) and PL(although they are stepping up)
FCS non-scholarship- PFL
FCS stuck in the past- Ivy and SWAC

I even added one more subdivision.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I love these comments from "the big boys". So you want your part of FCS to exclude: The Pioneer, Patriot, Ivy, MEAC, SWAC, Big South, most of the OVC, and some of the SLC, SoCon, CAA, ... So you end up with your idea of your entire subdivision being made up of your school, your school's rivals, and teams you've played against in the playoffs. That's not a subdivision folks, that's a conference, "superconference" maybe, but a conference. All so that you don't have to risk or share your ever diminishing glory with those unworthy masses. This is the kind of crap I'm not going to miss from App State fans, but I guess we have a new group of joyous opinions to deal with from the northern plains.

Man, I didn't see what you saw. I don't want to see any of those that you mentioned not as part of the division but there are some differences and I hope the gap narrows to bring most of the teams up or at least the top teams in the bottom conferences up...which is happening more frequently.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Except that...
1. How do you define which 20 schools? There are probably 40 in the discussion over any one decade, e.g., Michigan State can't win the title now, but could if the stars aligned.

2. Group 2: Attendance above 40K: Only 57 I-A schools even meet this standard. Take out the top 20, 30, whatever, and you're not left with much.

3. Group 3: 18-39K Attendance: Your're left with 50 I-A schools and eight I-AA, four of which are moving up.

4. Group 4-10-18K: Maybe a dozen in I-AA and 35-30 in I-AA, including half the Ivies.

5. Group 5: 0-10K: That leaves, what, 70 I-AA schools, or roughly St. Francis to UC Davis.

Attendance criteria doesn't work, nor enrollment, and this discussion never considers conference membership.

The "College Football" the writer of the article is discussing is all about money/revenue. Attendance certainly is related to revenue. My breakdown can certainly be adjusted on the edges, but just because a school is in the B1G (Northwestern, Illinois) or SEC (Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Miss St.) doesn't make them "real" college football the way the author is trying to call out the "wannabe's".

[superman7515]

Relegation

[DFW HOYA]

Relegation

Who's going to be the one telling Colorado it's headed to the Big Sky or Auburn to the OVC? If anything, cheating would skyrocket at the lower ends.

[superman7515]

I'm not saying that, you can stay in your conference. As unpalatable as it is to some simply because of the name associated with it, go with the MPLS plan. Just open it up to one giant D1 with everyone allowed to offer up to 85 full scholarships, however you want to break it down. Performance determines where you go, if you go, to the postseason. There's already an NCAA tourney, the NIT, CBI, CIT, etc in basketball. Have multiple tournaments in football. If you're able to play at a certain level, you get into the BCS tourney. If not, you get relegated to the NCAA tourney, then down to the CFI tourney, down the line.

[IBleedYellow]

I love these comments from "the big boys". So you want your part of FCS to exclude: The Pioneer, Patriot, Ivy, MEAC, SWAC, Big South, most of the OVC, and some of the SLC, SoCon, CAA, ... So you end up with your idea of your entire subdivision being made up of your school, your school's rivals, and teams you've played against in the playoffs. That's not a subdivision folks, that's a conference, "superconference" maybe, but a conference. All so that you don't have to risk or share your ever diminishing glory with those unworthy masses. This is the kind of crap I'm not going to miss from App State fans, but I guess we have a new group of joyous opinions to deal with from the northern plains.

The hell did I do to piss in your cheerios, bro?

I would prefer to see the Patriot and Pioneer leagues to bring their scholarships UP closer towards the 63 of FCS. I'm not saying to make a minimum amount or force teams to drop to DII. I am also not stating that the college football as a whole needs to split up into 5 tiers.

I stated how it currently is seperated, not officially, but the current ways that ARE FACTS.

FACT: There are FCS teams that give no scholarships. I am not downtalking these schools. Is it harder for them to compete without these scholarships? Yes
FACT: I never once said NDSU was elite because of where they fall, so your comment against me is uncalled for.
FACT: There are conferences in the FCS that currently are allowing less than 63 scholarships, and will eventually allow 60 scholarships.

FACT: ALL OF THESE are good things, because this will level the playing field and will allow more diversity in the top of the FCS. Right now if you aren't in the MVFC, Big Sky, CAA, SoCon, or Southland YOU DO HAVE A SHOT AT WINNING A TITLE. It just makes it harder due to not having scholarships.

[fc97]

I don't think you are in a minority unless we are both there alone. IF that were to occur and there was a way that they had a playoff within this division I think as long as it wasn't financially backwards and there was a playoff there then you'd probably see entire FCS conferences looking at it with a more open eye.

So basically, the FCS with more scholarships if it could be accomodated financially.

that's why i think that if the bcs fully seperate from the rest of fbs then you'll have a portion of fcs and fbs combined mainly because the ncaa won't care about whats left overall. tv money will probably be less if not down to where it was in the old fcs. and it wouldn probably be more than 30 schools, i would legitimately see it closer to 60-70 right now (most if not all of the caa, big sky, mvfc, socon, ovc, southland and some of the big south, nec, patriot and probably none of the swac, meac, pfl, ivy). but if schools start pulling scholarships down due lack of paydays or anything like that then it could be 30 or 40 that are left when all that settles out. but the difference is, it will be based on funding rather than performance or attendance. the richer schools would end up leaving the poor schools in a lower division.

[IBleedYellow]

that's why i think that if the bcs fully seperate from the rest of fbs then you'll have a portion of fcs and fbs combined mainly because the ncaa won't care about whats left overall. tv money will probably be less if not down to where it was in the old fcs. and it wouldn probably be more than 30 schools, i would legitimately see it closer to 60-70 right now (most if not all of the caa, big sky, mvfc, socon, ovc, southland and some of the big south, nec, patriot and probably none of the swac, meac, pfl, ivy). but if schools start pulling scholarships down due lack of paydays or anything like that then it could be 30 or 40 that are left when all that settles out. but the difference is, it will be based on funding rather than performance or attendance. the richer schools would end up leaving the poor schools in a lower division.

THIS.


One of the reasons NDSU left DII was the fact they kept cutting scholarships. 24 just doesn't get it done.

The schools that have tradition with alumni support will do well in whatever level of football they are at. (I'm looking at you, GSU and App State.)

[Franks Tanks]

The hell did I do to piss in your cheerios, bro?

I would prefer to see the Patriot and Pioneer leagues to bring their scholarships UP closer towards the 63 of FCS. I'm not saying to make a minimum amount or force teams to drop to DII. I am also not stating that the college football as a whole needs to split up into 5 tiers.

I stated how it currently is seperated, not officially, but the current ways that ARE FACTS.

FACT: There are FCS teams that give no scholarships. I am not downtalking these schools. Is it harder for them to compete without these scholarships? Yes
FACT: I never once said NDSU was elite because of where they fall, so your comment against me is uncalled for.
FACT: There are conferences in the FCS that currently are allowing less than 63 scholarships, and will eventually allow 60 scholarships.

FACT: ALL OF THESE are good things, because this will level the playing field and will allow more diversity in the top of the FCS. Right now if you aren't in the MVFC, Big Sky, CAA, SoCon, or Southland YOU DO HAVE A SHOT AT WINNING A TITLE. It just makes it harder due to not having scholarships.

The Patriot and Pioneer league have little in common. Patriot schools spend 3-4.5 million per year on football and offered 45-60 scholarship equalivencies in the way of need based financial aid in the past. We now offer normal football schoalrships and every school, expect Georgetown, in the league will offer 60 full rides (or close to it).

Some schools in the power FCS conferences are also light on scholarships. Indiana State and Rhode Island come to mind right away, but there are certainly others.

[Cocky]

G
I think there is really 4 subdivisions right now that will turn into 3.

1. Big 5
2. All other FBS
3. Scholarship/Playoff FCS
4. Non-Scholarship & Non-Playoff FCS

I would go with 5 having UAT at the top in a group by itself.

[IBleedYellow]

The Patriot and Pioneer league have little in common. Patriot schools spend 3-4.5 million per year on football and offered 45-60 scholarship equalivencies in the way of need based financial aid in the past. We now offer normal football schoalrships and every school, expect Georgetown, in the league will offer 60 full rides (or close to it).

Some schools in the power FCS conferences are also light on scholarships. Indiana State and Rhode Island come to mind right away, but there are certainly others.


Thank you for actually stating facts instead of attacking. Way to be.

[bojeta]

I have to agree with this article.

It also re-enforces why I prefer to currently be in the "lower" tier of DI football.

Three Divisions of DI Football (http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/700-the-three-subdivisions-of-college-football)

I'd be willing to argue that there are even more tiers:

BCS
FBS
FCS
FCS - Less Scholarships
FCS - No Scholarships

Might argue for 6 divisions:
BCS
FBS
FCS
Idaho
FCS less scholarships
FCS no scholarships
;)

[darell1976]

THIS.


One of the reasons NDSU left DII was the fact they kept cutting scholarships. 24 just doesn't get it done.

The schools that have tradition with alumni support will do well in whatever level of football they are at. (I'm looking at you, GSU and App State.)

I thought it was losing to UND every year.:D (just kidding)

[Twentysix]

The author needs a lesson in taxonomy.

He's a splitter not a lumper lol.

I didn't read the article, just what I am gathering by the first post.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I thought it was losing to UND every year.:D (just kidding)

That's the reason. Race to the bottom helps the bottom.

[ASUMountaineer]

I love these comments from "the big boys". So you want your part of FCS to exclude: The Pioneer, Patriot, Ivy, MEAC, SWAC, Big South, most of the OVC, and some of the SLC, SoCon, CAA, ... So you end up with your idea of your entire subdivision being made up of your school, your school's rivals, and teams you've played against in the playoffs. That's not a subdivision folks, that's a conference, "superconference" maybe, but a conference. All so that you don't have to risk or share your ever diminishing glory with those unworthy masses. This is the kind of crap I'm not going to miss from App State fans, but I guess we have a new group of joyous opinions to deal with from the northern plains.

xlolx Yes, we're horrible people. xlolx

[parr90]

I have to agree with this article.

It also re-enforces why I prefer to currently be in the "lower" tier of DI football.

Three Divisions of DI Football (http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/700-the-three-subdivisions-of-college-football)

I'd be willing to argue that there are even more tiers:

BCS
FBS
FCS
FCS - Less Scholarships
FCS - No Scholarships

I dont agree with this article! He can call it wanabees if he wants to but I look at it a little different. First of all I think that GSU and App will both do very well in the sunbelt. IMO they are already in a position athlete wise to compete and GSU will fare very well in recruiting which will be their strong suit in years to come. Yes I agree with the idea that some of these teams moving up will never be able to get to the top, so to speak, of the big boys simply because they wont grow to a level needed for top competition. But I believe because of the region that GSU is in and the rapid growth of the school which is already plus 20,000 that they will be able to continue to grow and excel. The ability to recruit is a major factor. GSU is in the best region of the country to recruit high school football players, and their campus is very attractive and growing. I think what will happen is that GSU will play in the SBelt for some years and then because they will continue to be successful that eventually they will get to a better conference. Now I no that the future of getting in conferences will be a tough thing to do but I think GSU will get to a point where they will be wanted. Recruiting alone is going to be the major difference in GSU's success vs other schools at this level. This move to FBS alone is going to bring in alot of players to GSU that have been leaving the state to schools like Mid Tenn, Marshall, Miss St, West Virginia, Southern Miss and so on. I just believe GSU will be a unique case, kind of like Boise, yet have a better opportunity for recruiting. Money may be a factor for a while given that has been GSU's problem but that will change as well given time.
I hear people all the time saying GSU is just going on to be a little fish in a big pond and that may be the case for a while but I dont think its going to stay that way for them forever. Im sure some will disagree but I have watched this program from the very start in 1981 when they bought a football at K-Mart to have at their first press conference. 6 National Championships and 8 Championship showings later, I think it will take time but at some point in the future GSU will be competing at the highest level.