New FCS Conference?

[chargeradio]

Could the Summit League's seemingly inevitable losses lead to a new FCS conference? The Horizon League will likely take two from the Summit, leaving the Summit with few to no options of recovering as a non-football conference-there simply aren't enough schools that play baseball in the footprint.

The first option would be to try to reform the Summit as an FCS league itself by raiding the Big Sky:

North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Montana
Montana State
Denver (non-football)
Omaha (non-football)

Western Illinois would probably run away, but could be stranded as the ninth team and seventh in football. IUPUI would likely run away as well.

The other option-which might be the only option if the Horizon League and/or MVC go to twelve-is for the WAC to lock up the Dakotas:

North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
UMKC (non-football)
Chicago State (non-football)
UTPA (non-football)
NMSU (FBS)
Seattle or Denver (non-football)
Utah Valley (non-football)
Grand Canyon (non-football)
CSUB (non-football)
Cal Poly (football only)
UC Davis (football only)

The Big Sky takes either Seattle or Denver to get back to 12 for all sports and settle at 10 for football.

This gives the WAC six in football and bears a striking resemblance to the Great West Football Conference of old. This would also give a place for Utah Valley, CSUB, or others to start a program. The WAC may still need to sponsor Baseball and Soccer until it gets two more full members playing football, but it would be a start.

[superman7515]

No.

[darell1976]

Could the Summit League's seemingly inevitable losses lead to a new FCS conference? The Horizon League will likely take two from the Summit, leaving the Summit with few to no options of recovering as a non-football conference-there simply aren't enough schools that play baseball in the footprint.

The first option would be to try to reform the Summit as an FCS league itself by raiding the Big Sky:

North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Montana
Montana State
Denver (non-football)
Omaha (non-football)

Western Illinois would probably run away, but could be stranded as the ninth team and seventh in football. IUPUI would likely run away as well.

The other option-which might be the only option if the Horizon League and/or MVC go to twelve-is for the WAC to lock up the Dakotas:

North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
UMKC (non-football)
Chicago State (non-football)
UTPA (non-football)
NMSU (FBS)
Seattle or Denver (non-football)
Utah Valley (non-football)
Grand Canyon (non-football)
CSUB (non-football)
Cal Poly (football only)
UC Davis (football only)

The Big Sky takes either Seattle or Denver to get back to 12 for all sports and settle at 10 for football.

This gives the WAC six in football and bears a striking resemblance to the Great West Football Conference of old. This would also give a place for Utah Valley, CSUB, or others to start a program. The WAC may still need to sponsor Baseball and Soccer until it gets two more full members playing football, but it would be a start.

I do like the first conference with the Montana's, but not the second coming of the WAC.

[IBleedYellow]

http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/1314029819767.png

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Montana and Montana State as founding members of one the most solid conferences in FCS leaving...

Not a chance in hell.

In fact of all the football members in that first group only ND would see it as better at this point in time from what I can see.

I can't see anything in that second one that would be appealing to a lot of the football members either. What exactly would you see as the benefit to these teams?

[IBleedYellow]

Montana and Montana State as founding members of one the most solid conferences in FCS leaving...

Not a chance in hell.

In fact of all the football members in that first group only ND would see it as better at this point in time from what I can see.

I can't see anything in that second one that would be appealing to a lot of the football members either. What exactly would you see as the benefit to these teams?


That's just it, I don't see it benefiting ANYONE.

Montana and your State friend would be leaving a conference that they are known for, UND would be leaving their "perfect" conference that they state.

NDSU would be leaving our great football conference and sub-par all sports conference (although we are looking better with Denver and Omaha additions).
SDSU would have the same reasons as NDSU.

Cal Poly and UC Davis would have further travels costs in this conference vs the current Big Sky.

For NDSU/SDSU/USD it would not really be a step up in competition other than making us travel further, although our All Sports conferences might look a little sexier.

Compare Cal Poly with ISUr or ISUb or YSU, not to mention Montana with UNI. (I'm saying I see these schools as equals in how they want to be in the FCS, powerhouses)

All of this would be a wash for competition and we would be gaining more costs associated with travel. All that I am talking about here is football.


NOTE: I DO WANT TO SEE NDSU/Montana in the same conference some day.

[notaXX]

I thought the same thing... Always heard that the Montana's wanted the Dakotas in the Big Sky so they could be in a conference of their peers...
IF that did happen would Idaho and or Eastern Washington follow... Those Idaho fans always say the same about a conference of their peers...
Now this would a conference of peers... Good schools all in the middle of nowhere with no population base...
The travel would be about equal to their current conferences...
Could be the premier FCS football conference...
Possibly Northern Colorado as a travel partner to Denver...

[Twentysix]

I thought the same thing... Always heard that the Montana's wanted the Dakotas in the Big Sky so they could be in a conference of their peers...
IF that did happen would Idaho and or Eastern Washington follow... Those Idaho fans always say the same about a conference of their peers...
Now this would a conference of peers... Good schools all in the middle of nowhere with no population base...
The travel would be about equal to their current conferences...
Could be the premier FCS football conference...
Possibly Northern Colorado as a travel partner to Denver...

I feel like the OP and this account are the same person.

[superman7515]

I feel like the OP and this account are the same person.

+1

Although the second one did have a penchant for using "..." whereas the OP used actual sentences.

[Bisonator]

I feel like the OP and this account are the same person.

Yeah, and a UND fan no doubt! The same old sayings, the Summit is going away, woe is NDSU!

[darell1976]

Yeah, and a UND fan no doubt! The same old sayings, the Summit is going away, woe is NDSU!

Where did he say the Summit is going away and woe is NDSU? I think I missed that in his quote.

[Bisonator]

leaving the Summit with few to no options of recovering

What the hell do you think this means Darrell???

[darell1976]

What the hell do you think this means Darrell???

That your commissioner is an idiot for not grabbing UND and UNC for baseball, getting UND on board in basketball and keeping teams in the conference. Face it your conference is a revolving door and more teams are leaving than coming in. So yeah in a way he is saying the SL is on the verge of collapse since you are at the bare minimum of baseball teams (6) and if Oakland leaves (which there were reports they are) you don't have an AQ conference in baseball. DU is not a baseball school and Omaha isn't a full DI member. But to say woe is NDSU...he is thinking of the whole conference not just your school. So why not fantasize about creating an all sports conference in the FCS and in DI basketball with SL and BSC teams in the same general footprint. But you are right that all spells out UND and damn the Bison.

[MarkyMark]

Could the WAC reinstate a football only conference?

At some point when all of the FBS conferences have filled up to their optimum size of 12 or 16 teams there should be a way for teams like NDSU, UNI and Montana to still have a way to move up to FBS.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Could the WAC reinstate a football only conference?

At some point when all of the FBS conferences have filled up to their optimum size of 12 or 16 teams there should be a way for teams like NDSU, UNI and Montana to still have a way to move up to FBS.

I had mentioned this about a year ago when the WAC was dying. It's possible that the reason the BSC was interested in and working with the WAC a little bit was to keep that door open in case something changes and I had asked if anyone knew of a reason that this couldn't come back in the future and don't remember getting a reply on it.

Don't think it would make any sense now but you never know how things will change and having a possible option is better in case things fell the way that it was a good move in the future.

[darell1976]

I had mentioned this about a year ago when the WAC was dying. It's possible that the reason the BSC was interested in and working with the WAC a little bit was to keep that door open in case something changes and I had asked if anyone knew of a reason that this couldn't come back in the future and don't remember getting a reply on it.

Don't think it would make any sense now but you never know how things will change and having a possible option is better in case things fell the way that it was a good move in the future.
Maybe UNC and UND has an early jump on this option as they are members of the WAC in baseball.

[MarkyMark]

I had mentioned this about a year ago when the WAC was dying. It's possible that the reason the BSC was interested in and working with the WAC a little bit was to keep that door open in case something changes and I had asked if anyone knew of a reason that this couldn't come back in the future and don't remember getting a reply on it.

Don't think it would make any sense now but you never know how things will change and having a possible option is better in case things fell the way that it was a good move in the future.

I asked the question but figured nobody will know the answer until we try it.

A year ago I didn't take the Let's Move to FBS Crowd at NDSU crowd very seriously but I have come to the conclusion that every decent size FCS University with a good football program will eventually move up to FBS. Its a natural progression in the growth of your football program.

Our AD has stated that we are content with FCS (for now) as long as successful FCS programs in our region like UNI, and the Montana schools stay in FCS. FargoDome is our biggest obstacle to being a successful FBS team. While its great for FCS it just won't provide enough revenue at the next level.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Maybe UNC and UND has an early jump on this option as they are members of the WAC in baseball.

Don't know about that. It was just a convenient way to have a semblance of a conference for baseball after not going where UND would have rather gone wasn't it? It's not some forethought on either of those schools part cuz it would take NDSU, USD, SDSU, Montana, MSU, PSU, andpossibly a few others deciding it's a good idea.

In other words almost zero chance sincee at least 3 of those teams said no thanks when it was still an actual football conference. Not impossible but so unlikely it's not really worth discussing.

Having a seat at the table to possibly play for more than a bowl game is also not likely so again no advantage there either.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I asked the question but figured nobody will know the answer until we try it.

A year ago I didn't take the Let's Move to FBS Crowd at NDSU crowd very seriously but I have come to the conclusion that every decent size FCS University with a good football program will eventually move up to FBS. Its a natural progression in the growth of your football program.

Our AD has stated that we are content with FCS (for now) as long as successful FCS programs in our region like UNI, and the Montana schools stay in FCS. FargoDome is our biggest obstacle to being a successful FBS team. While its great for FCS it just won't provide enough revenue at the next level.

The next level is not a step up to me so as always unless something changes I'd rather be here watching college football. If I liked the idea of trying to be semi pro then I'd be for it. The next level is the same to me as the top of this level as far as competition goes so I am not in that crowd.

[IBleedYellow]

The next level is not a step up to me so as always unless something changes I'd rather be here watching college football. If I liked the idea of trying to be semi pro then I'd be for it. The next level is the same to me as the top of this level as far as competition goes so I am not in that crowd.


I agree with this Montana fan.

Why would we want to go up to the next level where we would be losing money, just like every other of the 31 schools that jumped up from FCS to FBS.

[MarkyMark]

The next level is not a step up to me so as always unless something changes I'd rather be here watching college football. If I liked the idea of trying to be semi pro then I'd be for it. The next level is the same to me as the top of this level as far as competition goes so I am not in that crowd.

I am not in any hurry to see NDSU move. My priority for NDSU is to see a long term plan for expanding the fargodome or building a larger stadium.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I am not in any hurry to see NDSU move. My priority for NDSU is to see a long term plan for expanding the fargodome or building a larger stadium.

Yes, and even then it's only going to have so much potential for growth because like Montana you look around at the sparsely populated areas and think to myself that maybe we're about the size we should be at this point and probably will be for a long while. It's nice to have a waiting list for fans to have to really want seats as opposed to having a bunch of unused ones as an AD I'd imagine. Even in a down year fans don't just go away willy nilly and drive the price of the seats down to fill things up.

Just my perspective as well but I'd way rather be a fan of NDSU here than Idaho or any pretty mcuh any other FBS/BCS team. I've said it before but I don't give a **** about some slack jawed moron that isn't one of us following the Griz because they are able to buy a shirt in any Walmart and tune in and watch and act like they are part of it.

I'd especially hate to have those morons repping on a message board. xlolx

[MarkyMark]

I gotta agree with you, no appeal to me to just simply exist in FBS and not be successful.

The Fargo metro area is around 200K and growing steadily. I think we could support a bigger stadium.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I gotta agree with you, no appeal to me to just simply exist in FBS and not be successful.

The Fargo metro area is around 200K and growing steadily. I think we could support a bigger stadium.

Oh absolutely, no doubt about that. I just am of the mind that if you have a certain amount in your area that can reasonably get to a game then you can look at it and say "this is still us"., we are still a local community driven College Football program.

[darell1976]

Don't know about that. It was just a convenient way to have a semblance of a conference for baseball after not going where UND would have rather gone wasn't it? It's not some forethought on either of those schools part cuz it would take NDSU, USD, SDSU, Montana, MSU, PSU, andpossibly a few others deciding it's a good idea.

In other words almost zero chance sincee at least 3 of those teams said no thanks when it was still an actual football conference. Not impossible but so unlikely it's not really worth discussing.

Having a seat at the table to possibly play for more than a bowl game is also not likely so again no advantage there either.

The logical spot would be in the SL for both teams but their commish dropped the ball and since UND is already affiliated with the WAC in swimming got the invite, and I am sure due to the footprint UNC got the invite too. Being on an AQ conference doesn't hurt and if it helps down the road to get into the FBS so be it(keep in mind UND is a good 10 years at least from moving up in the current FBS format).

[JSUBison]

Who knows what will happen or what direction the SL is looking at, but I like playing fantasy conference creation as much as the next guy. For the sake of argument, let's say the Summit does hope to sponsor football in hopes of creating stability. Assuming the schools are interested, Pittsburg State and Grand Valley State I think would be good adds. I base that on their FB attendance, and their geography. I know nothing of their $$ and other issues they would have going DI. Holding out hope Omaha will one day get their numbers straightened out, that would have the Summit look like this:

Grand Valley State
North Dakota State
Omaha
Pittsburg State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Western Illinois

Denver (Non FB)
IUPUI (Non FB)
IPFW (Non FB)
Oakland (Non FB)

I don't think the football side of things is stable enough yet with only 7 teams to make it work, but that is a pretty tight core group there, with GVSU being a bit of an outlier. Summit could add a 3rd move up in Colorado State-Pueblo, their FB attendance is several thousand better than U of Northern Colorado, and they would be a great travel partner for Denver in the non-FB side of things.

The best part of my scenario happening would be if Youngstown completed the destruction of the Valley by going east to CAA and the remaining Valley schools sitting at 5 members and losing their auto. :D

[IBleedYellow]

Who knows what will happen or what direction the SL is looking at, but I like playing fantasy conference creation as much as the next guy. For the sake of argument, let's say the Summit does hope to sponsor football in hopes of creating stability. Assuming the schools are interested, Pittsburg State and Grand Valley State I think would be good adds. I base that on their FB attendance, and their geography. I know nothing of their $$ and other issues they would have going DI. Holding out hope Omaha will one day get their numbers straightened out, that would have the Summit look like this:

Grand Valley State
North Dakota State
Omaha
Pittsburg State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Western Illinois

Denver (Non FB)
IUPUI (Non FB)
IPFW (Non FB)
Oakland (Non FB)

I don't think the football side of things is stable enough yet with only 7 teams to make it work, but that is a pretty tight core group there, with GVSU being a bit of an outlier. Summit could add a 3rd move up in Colorado State-Pueblo, their FB attendance is several thousand better than U of Northern Colorado, and they would be a great travel partner for Denver in the non-FB side of things.

The best part of my scenario happening would be if Youngstown completed the destruction of the Valley by going east to CAA and the remaining Valley schools sitting at 5 members and losing their auto. :D

We wouldn't be sitting any better in this scenario...

What I mean by this: I would hope that NDSU would be with the 2 South Dakotas. I also want to be with the Montanas and UNI.

[Thundar]

MVFC isn't going anywhere
Big Sky isn't going anywhere
Summit will still be around
Horizon will grab what it wants from Summit
Summit will replace those teams somehow

[Bisonoline]

Could the Summit League's seemingly inevitable losses lead to a new FCS conference? The Horizon League will likely take two from the Summit, leaving the Summit with few to no options of recovering as a non-football conference-there simply aren't enough schools that play baseball in the footprint.

The first option would be to try to reform the Summit as an FCS league itself by raiding the Big Sky:

North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Montana
Montana State
Denver (non-football)
Omaha (non-football)

Western Illinois would probably run away, but could be stranded as the ninth team and seventh in football. IUPUI would likely run away as well.

The other option-which might be the only option if the Horizon League and/or MVC go to twelve-is for the WAC to lock up the Dakotas:

North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
UMKC (non-football)
Chicago State (non-football)
UTPA (non-football)
NMSU (FBS)
Seattle or Denver (non-football)
Utah Valley (non-football)
Grand Canyon (non-football)
CSUB (non-football)
Cal Poly (football only)
UC Davis (football only)

The Big Sky takes either Seattle or Denver to get back to 12 for all sports and settle at 10 for football.

This gives the WAC six in football and bears a striking resemblance to the Great West Football Conference of old. This would also give a place for Utah Valley, CSUB, or others to start a program. The WAC may still need to sponsor Baseball and Soccer until it gets two more full members playing football, but it would be a start.

No

[Griz_are_Beta_AF]

Unrelated, sorry. But did you see the post about DeNarius on egriz? It was my first visit there, seemed like a massive cesspool of people who think DeNarius is a loser for not wanting to be a captain. Is it always like that? @Ursus

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Unrelated, sorry. But did you see the post about DeNarius on egriz? It was my first visit there, seemed like a massive cesspool of people who think DeNarius is a loser for not wanting to be a captain. Is it always like that? @Ursus

I don't know man. egriz is a good site with lots of Griz info. for the fans but I just don't go spend time there. The style of some of the things you described is what keeps me away. I just can't take the singular focus and so forth.