1+ SAC schools to to Big South?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just spitballin' a bit, but I did notice Brevard shows up a lot - and I mean a lot - in Big South out-of-conference scheduling, and also shows up somewhat in the SoCon as well.

Let's say the SoCon raids the Big South for one or more schools, and Liberty, as rumored, heads to the Sun Belt. Might the SAC be a logical place for the Big South to look for replacements once Campbell converts to full scholarship Big South football?

SAC members include:

Brevard
Lenoir-Rhyne
Mars Hill
Carson-Newman

I have zero idea if these schools have the want, or desire, to move to DI, nor if they have the facilities or anything. But the constant Big South scheduling of these schools made me wonder.

[nwFL Griz]

Is Campbell upgrading to full scholly?

[walliver]

Just spitballin' a bit, but I did notice Brevard shows up a lot - and I mean a lot - in Big South out-of-conference scheduling, and also shows up somewhat in the SoCon as well.

Let's say the SoCon raids the Big South for one or more schools, and Liberty, as rumored, heads to the Sun Belt. Might the SAC be a logical place for the Big South to look for replacements once Campbell converts to full scholarship Big South football?

SAC members include:

Brevard
Virginia Union
Southern Virginia
Lenoir-Rhyne
Mars Hill
North Greenville
Carson-Newman

I have zero idea if these schools have the want, or desire, to move to DI, nor if they have the facilities or anything. But the constant Big South scheduling of these schools made me wonder.

I don't think any of the schools listed are realistic D-1 prospects. If 2 or more BS teams leave, the league's auto bid is at extreme risk.

IMHO, The only realistic moves would be Valdosta State, West Georgia, or North Alabama.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

SAC members include:

Brevard
Virginia Union
Southern Virginia
Lenoir-Rhyne
Mars Hill
North Greenville
Carson-Newman



You sure about those teams being in the SAC? The SAC has eight FB members: Brevard, Catawba, Carson-Newman, Lenoir-Rhyne, Mars Hill, Newberry, Tusculum and Wingate. Lenoir-Rhyne has the biggest FB stadium in the SAC while Carson-Newman has a history of being really good. Both Lenoir-Rhyne and Carson-Newman made the D2 playoffs last year.

[kdinva]

Va. Union is in the CIAA, South. Va. is D-3........


Just spitballin' a bit, but I did notice Brevard shows up a lot - and I mean a lot - in Big South out-of-conference scheduling, and also shows up somewhat in the SoCon as well.

Let's say the SoCon raids the Big South for one or more schools, and Liberty, as rumored, heads to the Sun Belt. Might the SAC be a logical place for the Big South to look for replacements once Campbell converts to full scholarship Big South football?

SAC members include:

Brevard
Virginia Union
Southern Virginia
Lenoir-Rhyne
Mars Hill
North Greenville
Carson-Newman

I have zero idea if these schools have the want, or desire, to move to DI, nor if they have the facilities or anything. But the constant Big South scheduling of these schools made me wonder.

[kdinva]

Is Campbell upgrading to full scholly?

not for a while, I heard.........yet their baseball team cracked the top-30 recently.........

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Thanks for setting me straight. It's obvious I'm spitballin', and I must have misread Brevard's schedule - oops. But you wonder if Lenoir-Rhyne and/or Carson-Newman might be interested in the Big South if things get hairy for the BSC.

As for Campbell, nothing is "official", but if the BSC is in danger of losing their football conference I am very confident they will answer the call.

[Sir William]

Most likely SAC school (football playing) that would make the jump to D1 and to the Big South would be Wingate. But highly unlikely.

More likely (but again, not very likely) would be North Greenville, an independent D2 school in SC, loosely associated with the SAC. Their stadium humiliates the facilities at Chuck South.

[walliver]

...

More likely (but again, not very likely) would be North Greenville, an independent D2 school in SC, loosely associated with the SAC. Their stadium humiliates the facilities at Chuck South.

What stadium doesn't?

[Sir William]

What stadium doesn't?

Good point. Well played.

[Go...gate]

I'm still thinking LIU-C.W. Post might upgrade to Division I in all sports. The BSC might be a fit for them, too.

[aceinthehole]

I'm still thinking LIU-C.W. Post might upgrade to Division I in all sports. The BSC might be a fit for them, too.

I doubt that. I think LIU is content keeping the Brooklyn campus as the only D-I program. I'm not sure the university can afford to run 2 separate D-I athletic programs.

As it is now, LIU-Brooklyn struggles to keep up in the NEC in most sports outside of men's hoops.

[Go...gate]

I doubt that. I think LIU is content keeping the Brooklyn campus as the only D-I program. I'm not sure the university can afford to run 2 separate D-I athletic programs.

As it is now, LIU-Brooklyn struggles to keep up in the NEC in most sports outside of men's hoops.

Did not realize this. Let's face it, in this economy, every dollar is precious.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If they're D-II indy, why wouldn't North Greenville answer the call? They play a LOT of Big South schools in both hoops and football, and they'd have to be a big asset to the BSC in terms of helping buffer against Liberty's departure. Matter of fact, if they and/or Coastal leave, adding North Greenville and Campbell would go a long way towards keeping that conference stable for years to come.

It's not like North Greenville would be trading stability as a D-II indy for anything. All schools could use conferences.

[Libertine]

I have zero idea

As usual. The SAC shows up often on Big South non-conf schedules because Big South schools have 5 OOC games to fill and the SAC is regionally convenient and that's it. There are no feelers being extended, no backdoor machinations and no murmured conversations in the AD's box. I know conference expansion is your favorite black helicopter but it ain't happening with the SAC.

Just to humor the topic though, many of the other SAC administrations watched with a mix of horror and sour glee at Presbyterian's fumbled transition to D-I and would rather not repeat that themselves. Brevard is not moving up. If anything there is a better chance of them dropping athletics altogether than to go D-I. Neither is L-R, Mars Hill or Carson-Newman. The only current school in the SAC with a snowball's prayer is Wingate and they have publicly stated that they aren't interested.

As for Southern Virginia, that is not even an NCAA school. They were once an NAIA school but are currently members of the USCAA. Apparently, NAIA was too much for them so I can't imagine that NCAA D-I is even slightly in their future. North Greenville is not in the SAC -- they applied twice and then promptly shot themselves in the foot during the hearing process on both occasions -- but maintains a scheduling arrangement with the SAC. Still, as someone else stated, they are the most likely in the region to go D-I and, in fact, they have publicly stated that they want to move in that direction. However, they are in NO WAY prepared to do that anytime in the near future.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fair enough Libertine. Hey, I never claimed I was a SAC expert - as you pointed out I had zero idea! - I was simply looking at the relationship between the schools and the BSC and wondering what else was there, if anything.

Even you, though, have to admit that at a bare minimum the BSC has had two of its schools rumored to be potentially headed elsewhere. Liberty is very, very public about its desire for the FBS and VMI has been floated as a possible school for the SoCon. (CCU makes sense in the SoCon but doesn't appear to really be in the mix.) If they both leave, suddenly the Big South gets to 5 schools, and though I'm not the best at math I know that's not good news. Even if Campbell becomes full scholarship the whole thing hangs by a thread.

If it's a case of disbanding or looking at North Greenville... do they go for it? That's not a silly question. After all, who else is left to look at?

[fc97]

l-r, brevard and mars hill dont have the money. wingate does but have publically said. carson-newman maybe could swing it, but moving is a huge step up from 25 scholarships.

[Go...gate]

What were the problems Presbyterian encountered in transition? First I have heard of this.

[proasu89]

LFN discussing schools moving up without derision?xchinscratchxxlolx

[Libertine]

Even you, though, have to admit that at a bare minimum the BSC has had two of its schools rumored to be potentially headed elsewhere. ...
If it's a case of disbanding or looking at North Greenville... do they go for it? That's not a silly question. After all, who else is left to look at?

I readily admit that. In truth, there are constantly rumors of Big South schools heading elsewhere and some of those turn out to be true. Liberty and Coastal have made their ambitions plain so there's no argument there. The VMI rumors, though, are almost entirely floated by old school messageboard posters who can't get over the fact that they left the SoCon in the first place so, unless the SoCon implodes tomorrow, that one isn't happening. The Campbell rumor seems to have legs despite the fact that there has been no change in circumstances. If Campbell were to add scholarships, it's probably a no-brainer but they haven't and have given no indication that they will. For what it's worth, the Big South autobid took too long to get so, if losing it were a real possibility, then I believe that the Big South would indeed invite NGU but only if they absolutely had to and NGU would likely be waaaay down the list of candidates.


What were the problems Presbyterian encountered in transition? First I have heard of this.
PC's administration fumbled the paperwork and ended up taking an extra year to complete transition as well as underestimated the pricetag of the jump at the same time the economy went in the tank. They had to drastically slash athletic budgets and even cut a few sports as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I readily admit that. In truth, there are constantly rumors of Big South schools heading elsewhere and some of those turn out to be true. Liberty and Coastal have made their ambitions plain so there's no argument there. The VMI rumors, though, are almost entirely floated by old school messageboard posters who can't get over the fact that they left the SoCon in the first place so, unless the SoCon implodes tomorrow, that one isn't happening. The Campbell rumor seems to have legs despite the fact that there has been no change in circumstances. If Campbell were to add scholarships, it's probably a no-brainer but they haven't and have given no indication that they will. For what it's worth, the Big South autobid took too long to get so, if losing it were a real possibility, then I believe that the Big South would indeed invite NGU but only if they absolutely had to and NGU would likely be waaaay down the list of candidates.

I very much agree with you about VMI. The name keeps coming up but to me VMI fits a lot better in the Big South, The Citadel nonwithstanding. (Of course VMI and the Citadel fit best in a Southern wing of the Patriot League, but... ;) )

I do believe the BSC people are very, very proactive about this and definitely have Plan B's and Plan C's on terms of membership, just less publicly than other leagues. Since they've known for years that Liberty wants FBS and Coastal wants the SoCon they've had to be.

[cmaxwellgsu]

I don't think any of the schools listed are realistic D-1 prospects. If 2 or more BS teams leave, the league's auto bid is at extreme risk.

IMHO, The only realistic moves would be Valdosta State, West Georgia, or North Alabama.

I think North Alabama would be the most realistic of those. I admit I know very little about WG, but VSU plays in a local high school's stadium. That could be an issue for VSU if they have aspirations of moving up.

[Libertine]

I do believe the BSC people are very, very proactive about this and definitely have Plan B's and Plan C's on terms of membership, just less publicly than other leagues. Since they've known for years that Liberty wants FBS and Coastal wants the SoCon they've had to be.

One would hope so. One would also be giving them far too much credit.

[walliver]

...
I do believe the BSC people are very, very proactive about this and definitely have Plan B's and Plan C's on terms of membership, just less publicly than other leagues. Since they've known for years that Liberty wants FBS and Coastal wants the SoCon they've had to be.

They may be proactive, but there really isn't much out there for them.

The BCS was founded predominantly by a group of NAIA schools who all moved together to D-I as a non-football conference (at that time a newly formed conference automatically got a March Madness bid). CSU later started an independent football team funded at low D-2 levels. Elon moved from D-2 and their football was independent. When CCU added football, the BCS began supporting football, but it has always been a predominantly basketball conference (6 of 12 current members play football).

In a worse case scenario: LU to SBC and VMI and CCU to the SoCon, the league would only have 3 teams + Monmouth. They would need 2 (probably 3 immediate new football members) and there aren't that many "move ups" out there, and I doubt the BB schools would stand for that.

If the BSC is to survive long-term, they will probably need to look at trying to steal away a few HBCU's from the MEAC. In fact, the BSC would be a great choice for SC State - They would have plenty of OOC games for HBCU classics and rivalries, and travel costs would be greatly reduced, especially if Liberty leaves. SC State is in a horrible (self-inflicted) financial condition, and this may be the only way they can stay D-I.

[Sandlapper Spike]

The VMI rumors, though, are almost entirely floated by old school messageboard posters who can't get over the fact that they left the SoCon in the first place so, unless the SoCon implodes tomorrow, that one isn't happening.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Not saying VMI is getting in the SoCon, but it's a lot closer call than what you are suggesting.

[WileECoyote06]

What would be the benefit for a MEAC team to join the Big South right now? If anything, and if our commissioner had any guts, the MEAC should be preparing to raid the Big South.

[kdinva]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Not saying VMI is getting in the SoCon, but it's a lot closer call than what you are suggesting.

+1

[walliver]

What would be the benefit for a MEAC team to join the Big South right now? If anything, and if our commissioner had any guts, the MEAC should be preparing to raid the Big South.

For SC State, it would be about money. The idea of moving to D-II has been floated. Moving to the Big South might be enough savings in travel (especially if Liberty is gone), to stay in D-I. Now, SC State's problems are unique to SC State, and not representative of the rest of the MEAC. Millions of dollars have been wasted, millions lost, and people are being charged with felonies. On top of that, freshman retention is horrible.

[professor8315]

Future members to join the Big South as a package deal.

Florida A&M
Bethune Coockman
South Carolina St

[rokamortis]

Future members to join the Big South as a package deal.

Florida A&M
Bethune Coockman
South Carolina St

Is this your idea or really in the works?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Future members to join the Big South as a package deal.

Florida A&M
Bethune Cookman
South Carolina St

Interesting...

[rokamortis]

Interesting...

Agreed. It would add some decent football schools and solidify the membership. Adding FL schools would be nice. Also strong fan bases. I'm not sure if they would add a lot in terms of the other sports - but this would be a big deal for the Big South if it worked out.

[professor8315]

Is this your idea or really in the works?

it make sense!
why are the two florida schools and SCSU are playing conference games in Dover, De and Baltimore, Md. in the Big South the farthest north they will travel is Lynchburg, VA.

[rokamortis]

it make sense!
why are the two florida schools and SCSU are playing conference games in Dover, De and Baltimore, Md. in the Big South the farthest north they will travel is Lynchburg, VA.

It does make sense in that regard, plus a few others, and I would like for it to happen. I'm sure others would say it doesn't make sense from a tradition and institutional profile standpoint. Would the schools want to deal with the fallout from alumni and fans? When has conference alignment been determined on what makes sense?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

With the Sun Belt publicly backing down from the flirtation with Liberty, the Big South's prospects have brightened considerably. There's no place really for Liberty to go in FBS, so it looks like they'll be in the Big South for the forseeable future. In fact, with the departure of App State and Georgia Southern's fan bases, Liberty's fan base could be bigger than any of the remaining schools in the SoCon, let alone the Big South.

[MarkCCU]

Future members to join the Big South as a package deal.

Florida A&M
Bethune Coockman
South Carolina St

That would suck.

[walliver]

That would suck.

It's a much better option than North Greenville, Lenoir-Rhyne, and Isothermal Community College.

[CID1990]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Not saying VMI is getting in the SoCon, but it's a lot closer call than what you are suggesting.

Not to mention the fact that many of us did not want them to leave in the first place. There was a lot going on with that move, not just their problems competing in football.

[kdinva]

it make sense!
why are the two florida schools and SCSU are playing conference games in Dover, De and Baltimore, Md. in the Big South the farthest north they will travel is Lynchburg, VA.

(Lexington, VA)

[WileECoyote06]

it make sense!
why are the two florida schools and SCSU are playing conference games in Dover, De and Baltimore, Md. in the Big South the farthest north they will travel is Lynchburg, VA.

Um isn't Monmouth joining the Big South for football? At that point what is the difference? And where is Savannah State supposed to go?

[elcid83]

Future members to join the Big South as a package deal.

Florida A&M
Bethune Coockman
South Carolina St

I cannot imagine that this is the future of the Big South. However, the Big South commissioner really doesn't give us any idea what he is thinking - and, I understand that to a certain extent. There just aren't a lot of public schools in the BS and this would be a pretty dramatic move in my opinion.

Go Runnin' Bulldogs!

[kdinva]

Um isn't Monmouth joining the Big South for football? At that point what is the difference?

true.........


And where is Savannah State supposed to go?
as of yesterday, to monster.com to look for another coach.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Bump. This sure seems topical again.

[elcid83]

Most likely SAC school (football playing) that would make the jump to D1 and to the Big South would be Wingate. But highly unlikely.

More likely (but again, not very likely) would be North Greenville, an independent D2 school in SC, loosely associated with the SAC. Their stadium humiliates the facilities at Chuck South.

Wingate might be ready [very successful D-II athletics programs] but, Wingate is really happy with their current situation. I don't see them making the move to be a 2nd rate D-IAA program.

Go Runnin' Bulldogs!

[elcid83]

I very much agree with you about VMI. The name keeps coming up but to me VMI fits a lot better in the Big South, The Citadel nonwithstanding. (Of course VMI and the Citadel fit best in a Southern wing of the Patriot League, but... ;) )

I do believe the BSC people are very, very proactive about this and definitely have Plan B's and Plan C's on terms of membership, just less publicly than other leagues. Since they've known for years that Liberty wants FBS and Coastal wants the SoCon they've had to be.

Lehigh - you might be the only one who believes that the BS is very, very proactive about all of this. Every BS fan believes you are incorrect. Kallender, the Commissioner, has spent the last several years focusing on enhancing the value of basketball in the BS to the detriment of football in the BS. It now appears that the BS is likely one year away from becoming a football conference and no one has a clue how the BS is going to remain a football conference.

Go Runnin' Bulldogs!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh - you might be the only one who believes that the BS is very, very proactive about all of this. Every BS fan believes you are incorrect. Kallender, the Commissioner, has spent the last several years focusing on enhancing the value of basketball in the BS to the detriment of football in the BS. It now appears that the BS is likely one year away from becoming a football conference and no one has a clue how the BS is going to remain a football conference.

Go Runnin' Bulldogs!

If Kallender has no Plan B after the folks at Liberty have been nakedly courting an FBS conference for five years, if not longer, he's clueless.

[whoanellie]

What are Big South Member, High Point U's plan on starting Football?

[heath]

Just spitballin' a bit, but I did notice Brevard shows up a lot - and I mean a lot - in Big South out-of-conference scheduling, and also shows up somewhat in the SoCon as well.

Let's say the SoCon raids the Big South for one or more schools, and Liberty, as rumored, heads to the Sun Belt. Might the SAC be a logical place for the Big South to look for replacements once Campbell converts to full scholarship Big South football?

SAC members include:

Brevard
Lenoir-Rhyne
Mars Hill
Carson-Newman

I have zero idea if these schools have the want, or desire, to move to DI, nor if they have the facilities or anything. But the constant Big South scheduling of these schools made me wonder.

You have once again shown that you are a complete idiot with too much time on your hands.No wonder your credibility keeps deminishing with the Lehigh people. Start doing articles for your website and stop this *****. Have some integrity even if you you do not know your own teamxbowx Why do you start ALL the CAA.....PL............Big South rumors?
ps. Get a real job

[elcid83]

If Kallender has no Plan B after the folks at Liberty have been nakedly courting an FBS conference for five years, if not longer, he's clueless.

Now you're catching on.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

your credibility keeps deminishing

Too funny. Hopefully my credibility will cease to be "demenished" when I stop replying to the baseless "cretinicisms" on AGS.

[DEX]

Future members to join the Big South as a package deal.

Florida A&M
Bethune Coockman
South Carolina St


Lol, you guys need to stop it. I'm sure the Big South would rather disband first.