Patriot League 2013

[Franks Tanks]

The greatxlolx AL GROH got booted at UVA for not beating VT enough.The boosters and $$$ supporters always want that rivalry win.If Tavani is secure with his losing records, then you guys are in for a long miserable ridexconfusedx

It is my opinion that Frank will be done by 2015 unless he seriously ramps things up over the next 3 year. I am not completely sure Frank will want to go beyond 2015 regardless as he will be 62. If the team has rebounded and they are back to where we used to be he may stick around for another 2-3 years. If he doesn't turn it around he should not be offered a new contrcat or an extension.

There is however no chance that he will be fired before the end of his current contract. The only way he is out before 2015 is if he resigns due to health reasons, or he just doesn't want to coach any longer.

[Pard4Life]

I, too, have a real hard time believing that losing seven straight to Lehigh will be greeted with a shrug, despite the usual, admittedly reliable, Lafayette board folks.

THE BOARD AND PRESIDENT WERE PREPARED TO AXE THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM AND THE SERIES WITH LEHIGH!! Do you really think win-loss records against Lehigh have anything to do with the status of the football coach at Lafayette?

ps I can't believe DFW alluded to Neil Putnam! The program under Russo was gutted and Lehigh was a machine at the time... and even then they were more narrow losses than now.

[Pard4Life]

[QUOTE=Pard4Life;1957791]


I won't attempt to judge effort - but the result clearly was determined by more the differential of 3 fumbles (not 5). Excluding sacks, Lafayette gained 30 yards rushing on 25 attempts (1.2 ypc), while Bucknell gained 235 yards rushing on 51 attempts (4.6 ypc) despite everyone in the stadium knowing they were going to run it on every play. As for fumbles, LC fumbled 4 times and Bucknell once. That was partly offset by BU being called for 8 penalties (85 yards) while LC was called for three.

Yes this is try... I am not intending to say that the only reason we lost was the fumbles. You kicked our butts... and c2 compared your average RB to the second coming of Ernie Davis or some other legendary name, thanks to our defense.

[ngineer]

That would equal the epic 1995-2001 stretch, the only time in The Rivalry it's been done. Sometime in the 1890s there was a stretch where Lehigh didn't lose in 8 straight meetings (it might be 9, with a tie sandwiched in the middle). Lafayette of course had an unbelievable stretch in the 1910s and 1920s where they won something like 18 of 20.

The reason Lafayette is has been ahead for decades in the overall series is the stretch from the 1920's through the early '40's. In 25 games, I think Lehigh won 3 or 4. It has taken us 65 years to pull within 9. When I enrolled in 1970, I think our deficit to Lafayette was about 30, so we've picked up a net 21 or so in about 40 years. Tavani's job is safe so long as he keeps running a clean program where the players play hard, are competitive and do their school work. He's a dedicated guy and the College will not (I should say 'should not') embarrass him or itself by discharging him before he is ready to hang 'em up. Unless something weird, illlegal or unethical occurs he will will remain.

[Lehigh'98]

Colgate has a helluva schedule this year. Air Force, Stony Brook, UNH, Albany. 2 wins out of those plus a 2nd place league finish should be enough for an at large.

[CFBfan]

Colgate has a helluva schedule this year. Air Force, Stony Brook, UNH, Albany. 2 wins out of those plus a 2nd place league finish should be enough for an at large.



i think it depends 98 on how many losses they have if they place 2nd.....they could have 3 this season and take 2nd and i doubt that would get a bid, 1 loss a likely bid, 2 maybe......

[Gater]

One Patriot League loss would mean 11-1 Colgate beat Air Force, Stony Brook, Albany and UNH. That team is in. So is the 10-2 team that lost one Patriot League game and a game to Air Force but beat Stony Brook, Albany and UNH. The 9-3 team with one Patriot League loss, losses to Air Force and UNH and wins against Albany and Stony Brook (or any combination of those four) will most likely make the now 24 team playoff pool. Getting nine wins is the tricky part.

[Sader87]

One Patriot League loss would mean 11-1 Colgate beat Air Force, Stony Brook, Albany and UNH. That team is in. So is the 10-2 team that lost one Patriot League game and a game to Air Force but beat Stony Brook, Albany and UNH. The 9-3 team with one Patriot League loss, losses to Air Force and UNH and wins against Albany and Stony Brook (or any combination of those four) will most likely make the now 24 team playoff pool. Getting nine wins is the tricky part.

Something about a "cart and a horse..."

[Gater]

My understanding is that Colgate's plan is to have the cart on a very steep hill so that the horse will have no option but to gallop to an 11 win season.
Colgate's schedule is the best in years. Best also means best chance for loses. My only point was if Colgate is fortunate enough to win that many games they are almost certain to make the playoffs. Winning that many games is a different story (unless the cart plan works).

[Sader87]

Just bustin'....and I'm very envious of 'Gate's OOC sked.

[Lehigh'98]

i think it depends 98 on how many losses they have if they place 2nd.....they could have 3 this season and take 2nd and i doubt that would get a bid, 1 loss a likely bid, 2 maybe......

If they go 9-3 and 2nd in PL, they are in no questions asked. Especially with 24 teams. Lehigh/Fordham need 9-2/10-2 I think to secure a spot. Lehigh's game against UNH will be crucial.

[ngineer]

Also depends on how good those OOC schools are this year. Doesn't help losing to them if they have bad seasons.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If they go 9-3 and 2nd in PL, they are in no questions asked. Especially with 24 teams. Lehigh/Fordham need 9-2/10-2 I think to secure a spot. Lehigh's game against UNH will be crucial.

Let's not kid ourselves. Lehigh or Lafayette needs to win the PL to be guaranteed a spot. After last year I'm taking nothing for granted.

Colgate would be into the field at 9-3 if they are in the at-large pool, guaranteed. But I don't think that will happen.

[Gater]

Three CAA teams plus Air Force? Colgate beats them and loses one league game and doesn't get in to a 24 team playoff? I will swim from Hamilton to Bethlehem (either of them) it that happens.

[DFW HOYA]

The more likely Colgate scenario has the Red Raiders going 2-3 in non-conference and no more than one loss in the PL. In that case, does an a 8-4 team get an invite? LFN's past experience is telling him no.

Here are the non-conference opponents by school, home games in caps, and a projected record:

Contenders:
Colgate (2-3): at Air Force, ALBANY, at New Hampshire, YALE, at Cornell
Lehigh (3-1): C.CONN, at Monmouth, at Princeton, NEW HAMPSHIRE
Fordham (3-2): URI, VILLANOVA, at Temple, COLUMBIA, at St. Francis

Spoilers:
Lafayette (2-3): SACRED HEART, W&M, at Penn, at Princeton, at Harvard
Holy Cross (2-4): at Bryant, TOWSON, @ C. Conn, MONMOUTH, at Dartmouth, HARVARD

Not In the Discussion:
Bucknell (2-3): MARIST, at Cornell, SACRED HEART, at Dartmouth, VMI
Georgetown (2-3): at Wagner, DAVIDSON, MARIST, PRINCETON, at Brown

(This seems to be the three tiers of the PL for the next 3-5 years, or longer.)

[RichH2]

Only change for me is Gate at 3-2.

[Gater]

Colgate also plays Stony Brook. 4-2 for Colgate would be really impressive. 3-3 and 'gate would need close loses and the rest of the league to be really strong to be the last team in at 8-4--though I would think it would be more likely that they would be the third team out. 24 teams and a bunch of traditional powers not eligible for the playoffs this year helps.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This 10-2 vs. 9-2 question is why I was imploring with Lehigh to get a 12th game, even if it was a local game vs. a school like St. Francis (PA). To put it bluntly, I think 10-2 gets in no matter what the schedule, 9-2 not a guarantee. Similarly, 9-3 is a strong candidate, 8-3 in the PL will probably not be enough. It's less important that they're stacked with FBS Top 25 opponents than it is that they just need a 12th Division I game.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The more likely Colgate scenario has the Red Raiders going 2-3 in non-conference and no more than one loss in the PL. In that case, does an a 8-4 team get an invite? LFN's past experience is telling him no.

Here are the non-conference opponents by school, home games in caps, and a projected record:

Contenders:
Colgate (2-3): at Air Force, ALBANY, at New Hampshire, YALE, at Cornell
Lehigh (3-1): C.CONN, at Monmouth, at Princeton, NEW HAMPSHIRE
Fordham (3-2): URI, VILLANOVA, at Temple, COLUMBIA, at St. Francis

Spoilers:
Lafayette (2-3): SACRED HEART, W&M, at Penn, at Princeton, at Harvard
Holy Cross (2-4): at Bryant, TOWSON, @ C. Conn, MONMOUTH, at Dartmouth, HARVARD

Not In the Discussion:
Bucknell (2-3): MARIST, at Cornell, SACRED HEART, at Dartmouth, VMI
Georgetown (2-3): at Wagner, DAVIDSON, MARIST, PRINCETON, at Brown

(This seems to be the three tiers of the PL for the next 3-5 years, or longer.)

Lehigh also plays @ Columbia....

If the Hawks can go 4-1 in the OOC they'll be a lock for the playoffs should they make it through league play with a single loss. I really think UNH will be a winnable game at home. Princeton will be a tough down there. When it's all said and done, Fordham* could very easily be the Hawks biggest hurdle. If nothing else, Lehigh has history on their side against the Rams.

[Sader87]

The more likely Colgate scenario has the Red Raiders going 2-3 in non-conference and no more than one loss in the PL. In that case, does an a 8-4 team get an invite? LFN's past experience is telling him no.

Here are the non-conference opponents by school, home games in caps, and a projected record:

Contenders:
Colgate (2-3): at Air Force, ALBANY, at New Hampshire, YALE, at Cornell
Lehigh (3-1): C.CONN, at Monmouth, at Princeton, NEW HAMPSHIRE
Fordham (3-2): URI, VILLANOVA, at Temple, COLUMBIA, at St. Francis

Spoilers:
Lafayette (2-3): SACRED HEART, W&M, at Penn, at Princeton, at Harvard
Holy Cross (2-4): at Bryant, TOWSON, @ C. Conn, MONMOUTH, at Dartmouth, HARVARD

Not In the Discussion:
Bucknell (2-3): MARIST, at Cornell, SACRED HEART, at Dartmouth, VMI
Georgetown (2-3): at Wagner, DAVIDSON, MARIST, PRINCETON, at Brown

(This seems to be the three tiers of the PL for the next 3-5 years, or longer.)

Holy Cross will not be a "middle of the pack" program with renewed interest/scholarships etc...in many ways HC has the most upside of the all the PL schools in this new era of PL football.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

[/B]

Holy Cross will not be a "middle of the pack" program with renewed interest/scholarships etc...in many ways HC has the most upside of the all the PL schools in this new era of PL football.


Based on what?

[CFBfan]

Sader87 stated: ...in many ways HC has the most upside of the all the PL schools in this new era of PL football.

Can you explain how/why?????

[CFBfan]

sorry, just saw that the same question was asked already

[Go Green]

Lehigh also plays @ Columbia....

If the Hawks can go 4-1 in the OOC they'll be a lock for the playoffs should they make it through league play with a single loss. I really think UNH will be a winnable game at home. Princeton will be a tough down there.

If Lehigh wants an at-large bid, they really ought to consider winning the Princeton game. Princeton probably won't be better than the fourth-best Ivy team next season, and a loss to the Tigers will not look good on the resume of a potential at-large team.

[CFBfan]

Not In the Discussion:
Bucknell (2-3): MARIST, at Cornell, SACRED HEART, at Dartmouth, VMI
Georgetown (2-3): at Wagner, DAVIDSON, MARIST, PRINCETON, at Brown

if GU can't win at least 3 of these occ's they will be LUCKY to do better and 4 or 5 wins in a year where it is likely the last ha-rah for them

[Go Green]

Based on what?

Best guess is that it's based on the fact that HC has already experienced being a national power with scholarships, and knows how it's done.

I was a member of some good Ivy teams. But we weren't able to match up with the scholarship HC power teams of that era.

[DFW HOYA]

if GU can't win at least 3 of these occ's they will be LUCKY to do better and 4 or 5 wins in a year where it is likely the last ha-rah for them

Not sure what this refers to. No one demands Kelly get "4 or 5 wins in a year" to keep his job. Remember, he was 5-38 at one point.

It's still a very soft non-conference schedule as opposed to Colgate or Lehigh. If things fall into place, they could win four of these five in 2013. They could also win just one of them.

[CFBfan]

Not sure what this refers to. No one demands Kelly get "4 or 5 wins in a year" to keep his job. Remember, he was 5-38 at one point.

It's still a very, very soft non-conference schedule. If things fall into place, they could win four of these five in 2013. They could also win just one of them.

really doesn't refer to anything dfw other than what i think their season might look like. if they can't win 3 or more of their non conf games i don't think they can win that many in PL play. Marist, Davidson and Princeton will likely ne weaker then most of the PL's

[CFBfan]

Best guess is that it's based on the fact that HC has already experienced being a national power with scholarships, and knows how it's done.

I was a member of some good Ivy teams. But we weren't able to match up with the scholarship HC power teams of that era.

I would say that Colgate and Lehigh also know how it's done. And if we use history as a guide, so would Bucknell

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I would say that Colgate and Lehigh also know how it's done. And if we use history as a guide, so would Bucknell

Lehigh's run in the late 90's, early 2000's was not much different than HC's run. The only difference was the fact LU's best team wasn't as good as the '87 HC squad.

Lehigh has the facilities, consistent winning tradition and most importantly, insitutional support, to be a major player in FCS on a fairly regular basis.

Lehigh's FCS Year End rankings. I'm almost positive Lehigh ended the year ranked in 1991....
1978 #7
1979 #3
1980 #1
1998 #13
1999 #14
2000 #8
2001 #5
2003 #23
2004 #15
2010 #14
2011 #5
2012 #16

[Go Green]

I would say that Colgate and Lehigh also know how it's done. And if we use history as a guide, so would Bucknell

All due respect to Colgate and Lehigh, but they didn't lose five games in six years--most of which were to FBS teams--like Holy Cross did during its glory run.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

All due respect to Colgate and Lehigh, but they didn't lose five games in six years--most of which were to FBS teams--like Holy Cross did during its glory run.

Lehigh's best run was
1998 12-1
1999 10-2
2000 12-1
2001 11-1
2002 8-4
2003 8-3
2004 9-3

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

As for Colgate, the Raiders have two Payton Award winners and a Finals appearance.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm almost positive Lehigh ended the year ranked in 1991....

At home I might look this up. The legendary HC/Lehigh game in 1991 was a battle between ranked teams, that much I know.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

At home I might look this up. The legendary HC/Lehigh game in 1991 was a battle between ranked teams, that much I know.

This game got serious national press. Easily the greatest game in PL history.....14,055 people were there to see it...

NY Times article.
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/27/sports/college-football-crusaders-and-the-scoreboard-survive.html

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All due respect to Colgate and Lehigh, but they didn't lose five games in six years--most of which were to FBS teams--like Holy Cross did during its glory run.

A fair point, but Lehigh's last three years, though... I'll take it. Only losses to Villanova (off their national championship year), NDSU (FCS national champions), Delaware (FCS national finalist), New Hampshire x 2 (FCS playoffs both years) and last years loss to conference champs Colgate. There were also wins against UNI and Towson, two wins against Liberty in there, a big win against a real good Harvard team, and a 17-1 conference record (if you count Fordham).

True they do need to keep it up to equal the HC team.

[Go Green]

At home I might look this up. The legendary HC/Lehigh game in 1991 was a battle between ranked teams, that much I know.

Pretty sure HC ended up ranked #2 in the country that year... even though they weren't allowed to go to the playoffs.

And yeah- the 1987 team was considered even better, presumably because they played (and beat) Army.

And Dartmouth got hosed in the 1991 game against Lehigh. :(

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Pretty sure HC ended up ranked #2 in the country that year... even though they weren't allowed to go to the playoffs.

And yeah- the 1987 team was considered even better, presumably because they played (and beat) Army.

And Dartmouth got hosed in the 1991 game against Lehigh. :(

That was a really good Dartmouth team. Jay Fiedler led the charge. I remember that game quite well because it was on my birthday, lol....

[Go Green]

That was a really good Dartmouth team. Jay Fiedler led the charge. I remember that game quite well because it was on my birthday, lol....

It was a great game. Pretty sure it was Lehigh's homecoming. Beautiful day. Very good crowd at still-new Goodman Stadium. Fiedler's first start as a QB.

Both teams played well. Game went back and forth and Lehigh was up by 2 in the closing minutes. We had the ball in our own territory, and Fiedler threw a long bomb that our receiver caught parallel to the ground and he landed right in front of me on the sidelines--well within the range of our All-American kicker (who was warm and roaring to go). Refs ruled that part of reeciver landed out of bounds first. Everyone on the Dartmouth side screamed in protest to no avail (replays were inconclusive). Alas, we ran out on downs and Lehigh took over and called victory formation to run out clock...

And it was a long ride back to Hanover...

[Gater]

Duffner started in '86 and went 60-5-1 for Holy Cross. I can't imagine any other team in Division 1 has lost fewer games in a six year stretch. They won five Lambert Cups in the 80's. In 1984, 25,000 saw Holy Cross host BC on the day Flutie won the Heisman. Gordie Lockbaum finished 5th in the Heisman his junior year and 3rd his senior year. Holy Cross in the late 80's/early 90's was at a very different level than anything the Patriot League has ever seen.

http://www.goholycross.com/sports/m-footbl/archive_files/chron.pdf

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Duffner started in '86 and went 60-5-1 for Holy Cross. I can't imagine any other team in Division 1 has lost fewer games in a six year stretch. They won five Lambert Cups in the 80's. In 1984, 25,000 saw Holy Cross host BC on the day Flutie won the Heisman. Gordie Lockbaum finished 5th in the Heisman his junior year and 3rd his senior year. Holy Cross in the late 80's/early 90's was at a very different level than anything the Patriot League has ever seen.

http://www.goholycross.com/sports/m-footbl/archive_files/chron.pdf

The 1987 HC team is the one that really stands out. That is arguably, along with Marshall in '97, the greatest FCS team ever. The other years HC was challenged by Lafayette on a regular basis. The Leopards had some beastly teams back then too, including a SI cover boy.

1988 Lafayette and 1991 Lehigh are the other teams from that era that could have done serious damage in the playoffs.

[Lehigh'98]

Holy Cross is always a threat and they tend to play conference games closer than respectable OOC opponents, but they have had only one 9 win season since 1991. Its hard to pick them 1 or 2 in PL based on that. Can things change with schollies? Absolutely, but they need to earn it on the field.

[Go...gate]

Duffner started in '86 and went 60-5-1 for Holy Cross. I can't imagine any other team in Division 1 has lost fewer games in a six year stretch. They won five Lambert Cups in the 80's. In 1984, 25,000 saw Holy Cross host BC on the day Flutie won the Heisman. Gordie Lockbaum finished 5th in the Heisman his junior year and 3rd his senior year. Holy Cross in the late 80's/early 90's was at a very different level than anything the Patriot League has ever seen.

http://www.goholycross.com/sports/m-footbl/archive_files/chron.pdf

Agreed. And many believe HC '87 was the greatest 1-AA team ever. They were essentially a Big East team playing in the Patriot League (only in its second year) and could have held their own with any 1-A team in the Big East that season. I always thought an intriguing matchup in 1987 would have had Syracuse (11-0-1, #2 in 1-A) vs. Holy Cross. We will never know.

[Go...gate]

Cross could certainly become a major FCS power again.

[Sader87]

Sader87 stated: ...in many ways HC has the most upside of the all the PL schools in this new era of PL football.

Can you explain how/why?????

Sorry, dropped that bomb and had classes and tennis practice.

Basically I'm saying that HC has the potential given its history, possible renewed support from CMass etc. to improve moreso than many PL schools where PL/FCS football will always be an after-thought. Will this happen? Maybe not...but no other school (besides maybe Lehigh) could potentially have crowds consistently in the 15,000K range, the support from a fairly large metropolitan region where HC football is the only D1game in town etc. etc.

[DFW HOYA]

Basically I'm saying that HC has the potential given its history, possible renewed support from CMass etc. to improve moreso than many PL schools where PL/FCS football will always be an after-thought. Will this happen? Maybe not...but no other school (besides maybe Lehigh) could potentially have crowds consistently in the 15,000K range, the support from a fairly large metropolitan region where HC football is the only D1game in town etc. etc.

With all respect to HC, a lot of PL schools could use the "given their history..." card. Fordham fans mention it often, albeit a few generations earlier.

Yes, these were some very good HC teams (with a pair of wins over Army) but the momentum of pre-AI scholarships gave the Crusaders a decided advantage throughout the Mark Duffner years. From 1986-91, Duffner's teams were a combined 47-1 vs. nonscholarship teams. Two years later, they're at 3-8.

HC could draw well (and travel well) in those years because of good regional scheduling--BC, UMass, BU, the northern Ivies. In many years, six or seven games each year could be played within the Commonwealth itself. Can Holy Cross approach 15,000 a game when half the home schedule could be Fordham, Bucknell, and Georgetown? Probably not. The fan base is no longer prepared to attend regardless of the opponent, which is the formula Old Dominion used to great success--it didn't matter whether the opponent was Campbell and Jacksonville or W&M and Norfolk State--it didn't matter, the game was sold out.

[breezy]

This game got serious national press. Easily the greatest game in PL history.....14,055 people were there to see it...

NY Times article.
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/27/sports/college-football-crusaders-and-the-scoreboard-survive.html

Still the greatest football game I have ever seen.

[Go Green]

Duffner's teams were a combined 47-1 vs. nonscholarship teams. Two years later, they're at 3-8.

You could have mentioned the season after Duffner left, and I wouldn't have minded.

http://cfreference.net/cfr/schedules/dartmouth/vs/holy-cross/1992/110162

:D

[ngineer]

Still the greatest football game I have ever seen.

That was indeed a fantastic game, and to think it was only 7-7 at halftime!

[RichH2]

IT'S BAAACK! Expansion. Interesting article in today's ExpressTimes by Brad Wilson. Most of us are too familiar w the various scenarios. He gives a good overview of current status, but nothing we haven't mercilessly beaten to death. His takeaway is that Nova is the perfect candidate. Cant disagree. But, my takeaway was a passing comment that PL is looking for a football only member to fill out roster. Does appear to be a shift from earlier statements emphasizing search for full members.
So the saga continues.

[van]

To me, Nova is the most desirable expansion candidate. Unfortunately they don't seem to agree with me.

[DFW HOYA]

To me, Nova is the most desirable expansion candidate. Unfortunately they don't seem to agree with me.

For Villanova to spend as much as they are right now, to restrict its recruiting, and to send a message to its fan base that they are deemphasizing football is not a winning combination to where they are now.

If this was a team that could not compete in the CAA, that's another matter. But it does compete.

[Bogus Megapardus]

For Villanova to spend as much as they are right now, to restrict its recruiting, and to send a message to its fan base that they are deemphasizing football is not a winning combination to where they are now.

Of course Villanova will never play PL football. It still shocks me how Georgetown is able to continue to weather the shame and indignity of it, with all that deemphasizingness and such going on throughout the league.

As RichH noted this morning, Lafayette beat writer Brad Wilson, in the Easton Express-Times:

Link (http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/brad-wilson/index.ssf/2013/05/villanova_the_perfect_answer_to_the_patriot_league _football_scheduling_conundrum.html)

[Bogus Megapardus]

But, my takeaway was a passing comment that PL is looking for a football only member to fill out roster. Does appear to be a shift from earlier statements emphasizing search for full members.

“I think it’s fair to say we continue to be interested in expanding with one or two football members,” [Patriot League Commissioner Carolyn] Schlie Femovich said. “We’re looking for any opportunities we can seize.”

It doesn't get any clearer than that, does it?

Maybe a Craigslist ad - "Virtually unknown regional Division I/FCS athletic conference seeks a college or university wishing to de-emphasize its football program and subject it to taunts and snickering remarks on 'Any Given Saturday.' Must have 100-year-plus tradition of gridiron excellence that it is willing to sacrifice for the honor of hob-nobbing with a collection of Ivy League safety schools and occasional interface with the real thing. Schools with established football rivalries need not apply because the conference recognizes only one such game. Institutions that Coulda Been in the Big East are encouraged to inquire."

[Pard4Life]

IT'S BAAACK! Expansion. Interesting article in today's ExpressTimes by Brad Wilson. Most of us are too familiar w the various scenarios. He gives a good overview of current status, but nothing we haven't mercilessly beaten to death. His takeaway is that Nova is the perfect candidate. Cant disagree. But, my takeaway was a passing comment that PL is looking for a football only member to fill out roster. Does appear to be a shift from earlier statements emphasizing search for full members.
So the saga continues.

Yup... we are trying hard to hold off Marist from joining. I hope that we do not get desperate or just give in. And please help us if it's Monmouth. There really are not many other options though, unless the PL goes off reservation and scoops up the small SoCon schools, which won't happen.

[Lehigh'98]

“I think it’s fair to say we continue to be interested in expanding with one or two football members,” [Patriot League Commissioner Carolyn] Schlie Femovich said. “We’re looking for any opportunities we can seize.”

It doesn't get any clearer than that, does it?

Maybe a Craigslist ad - "Virtually unknown regional Division I/FCS athletic conference seeks a college or university wishing to de-emphasize its football program and subject it to taunts and snickering remarks on 'Any Given Saturday.' Must have 100-year-plus tradition of gridiron excellence that it is willing to sacrifice for the honor of hob-nobbing with a collection of Ivy League safety schools and occasional interface with the real thing. Schools with established football rivalries need not apply because the conference recognizes only one such game. Institutions that Coulda Been in the Big East are encouraged to inquire."

You may get a few pics of genitalia as a reply, being Craigslist and all. I doubt W&M or VU will be answering though.

[Bogus Megapardus]

And please help us if it's Monmouth.

Remember, Monmouth U.'s new president as of June currently is the Dean of something-or-other at Lehigh. Still, I think it's reasonable to exclude Monmouth, Wagner, Marist, Bryant and Duquesne. If any of them were a target, they'd already have joined. IMHO.

[Pard4Life]

You may get a few pics of genitalia as a reply, being Craigslist and all. I doubt W&M or VU will be answering though.

Anthony Weiner might...

[RichH2]

Humorous,as usual, but, any worthwhile football member is a couple of yrs away unless we want to repeat HC admission scenario.
My fear us PL jumps too soon to get one and we wind up w one of P4L's favorites.

[van]

Remember, Monmouth U.'s new president as of June currently is the Dean of something-or-other at Lehigh. Still, I think it's reasonable to exclude Monmouth, Wagner, Marist, Bryant and Duquesne. If any of them were a target, they'd already have joined. IMHO.

Well of those 5 mentioned, Wagner would be my favorite.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Villanova joins the PL if and only if Delaware drops football or goes FBS. If Villanova joins the PL Talley hands in his resignation the very next day. If Talley resigns the program might not survive. But then again, if Delaware goes FBS other, um, options open up.

[Sader87]

The only schools that fit (rightly or wrongly) the PL model for football are Villanova, Richmond and/or William&Mary....every other scenario is a "square peg in a round hole."

[DFW HOYA]

The only schools that fit (rightly or wrongly) the PL model for football are Villanova, Richmond and/or William&Mary....every other scenario is a "square peg in a round hole."

With that kind of short list, how did Georgetown or Towson ever fit?

Because the PL chose each because of circumstances, not because of fit. Another addition will be a matter of circumstances but I don't see what Villanova exactly gains by joining the PL versus what they have now.

Less expensive? No.
More revenue opportunity? No.
Increased access to at-large bids? No.
Increased attendance? Probably not.
Access to Ivy games? They already play Penn.
More access to recruits? Definitely not.

[Sader87]

I agree, the Towson addition was odd....but there are really no other additions that fit in terms of academics, level of football, geography etc. other than those aforementioned 3. Bryant, Marist, Wagner et. al.???? Not happening.

[Go...gate]

Remember, Monmouth U.'s new president as of June currently is the Dean of something-or-other at Lehigh. Still, I think it's reasonable to exclude Monmouth, Wagner, Marist, Bryant and Duquesne. If any of them were a target, they'd already have joined. IMHO.

I think I majored in that at Colgate.

As I recall. we had one of the nation's leading departments of "Something-or-Other". xreadx xrotatehx

[Go...gate]

I agree, the Towson addition was odd....but there are really no other additions that fit in terms of academics, level of football, geography etc. other than those aforementioned 3. Bryant, Marist, Wagner et. al.???? Not happening.

The PL and Towson got together because Fordham was going to leave for all sports back in 1995 but elected to stay for football. Towson was ramping their program back up to full scholarship and we were a safe harbor. It really was a win-win for all sides. Georgetown was actually a very logical addition due to its academic profile and its commitment to "equivalency" football.

[van]

Villanova joins the PL if and only if Delaware drops football or goes FBS. If Villanova joins the PL Talley hands in his resignation the very next day. If Talley resigns the program might not survive. But then again, if Delaware goes FBS other, um, options open up.

Sadly, this is true.

[RichH2]

True Talley hates PL.I think because we were non schollie & a win meant little but a loss was tragic. Once we're at 60,he might not hate us enuf to stop Nova from joining. Dont really see that UD's status will factor in at all one way or the other.
Still premature speculation. There ought be a pill we could take to cure it. Yup

[heath]

I agree, the Towson addition was odd....but there are really no other additions that fit in terms of academics, level of football, geography etc. other than those aforementioned 3. Bryant, Marist, Wagner et. al.???? Not happening.

Monmouth=Towson..............yepxnodx, so old timers stop bitching when Monmouth is mentioned,remember Mason Dixon and Patriot. Very similar schoolsxthumbsupx

[Go...gate]

Villanova joins the PL if and only if Delaware drops football or goes FBS. If Villanova joins the PL Talley hands in his resignation the very next day. If Talley resigns the program might not survive. But then again, if Delaware goes FBS other, um, options open up.

He's been a factor in this, no question. But things have changed materially. Villanova can be in the scholarship PL and compete nationally, so why is it such a problem?

[ngineer]

I agree, the Towson addition was odd....but there are really no other additions that fit in terms of academics, level of football, geography etc. other than those aforementioned 3. Bryant, Marist, Wagner et. al.???? Not happening.

Strictly a temporary "marriage of convenience" in order for the PL to keep it's required number of schools to keep its AQ and for Towson to have a holding spot until the CAA spot was ready.
Georgetown is a totally different animal and can be more of a 'peg that fits' if it wants to commit itself to facilities upgrades and athletic scholarships.

[carney2]

Villanova joins the PL if and only if Delaware drops football or goes FBS. If Villanova joins the PL Talley hands in his resignation the very next day. If Talley resigns the program might not survive. But then again, if Delaware goes FBS other, um, options open up.

The Patriot League could quite easily make accommodations to a football only member Villanova, guaranteeing them an annual game with Delaware - even a last game of the season if it came to that. Andy Talley is now one month past his 70th birthday. One has to believe that his anti Patriot League tirades are nearing an end.

[Bogus Megapardus]

even a last game of the season if it came to that.

xsmhxxsmhxxsmhx

[DFW HOYA]

The Patriot League could quite easily make accommodations to a football only member Villanova, guaranteeing them an annual game with Delaware - even a last game of the season if it came to that. Andy Talley is now one month past his 70th birthday. One has to believe that his anti Patriot League tirades are nearing an end.

The PL would make no such guarantees--an eight team conference needs all four teams playing within conference down the stretch. And the thought of trading in Delaware for games at Georgetown are enough to concern all but the most jaded Wildcats fans.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I agree, the Towson addition was odd....but there are really no other additions that fit in terms of academics, level of football, geography etc. other than those aforementioned 3. Bryant, Marist, Wagner et. al.???? Not happening.

Didn't several of the PL schools have ties to Towson from the ECC basketball days? I remember Lehigh battling Towson a couple times as a kid for the ECC hoops title. Perhaps the familiarity with Towson gave the PL league office a sense of comfort despite the academic differences.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Didn't several of the PL schools have ties to Towson from the ECC basketball days? I remember Lehigh battling Towson a couple times as a kid for the ECC hoops title. Perhaps the familiarity with Towson gave the PL league office a sense of comfort despite the academic differences.

1991. I was there. That seems like a pretty good theory.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

1991. I was there. That seems like a pretty good theory.

The one I remember was actually 1988 (Queenan/Pohlaha) when Lehigh beat Towson down there. LU then advanced to the NCAA tourney where they lost to #1 Temple :D

[Bogus Megapardus]

Even before that, there was ECC "East" and "West." You had Temple, St. Joe's and Lasalle on one side and Lafayette, Bucknell and Lehigh on the other.

[Go...gate]

The Patriot League could quite easily make accommodations to a football only member Villanova, guaranteeing them an annual game with Delaware - even a last game of the season if it came to that. Andy Talley is now one month past his 70th birthday. One has to believe that his anti Patriot League tirades are nearing an end.

Agreed.

[Pard4Life]

It's probably safe that we can write our conclusion to the PL expansion issue:

With the AI index and restriction on red-shirting incoming freshmen, the PL has limited its options for attracting top-tier football associate members. Furthermore, the institutional academic standards and GSR and APR metrics of member schools (then I think of Lehigh and wonder why this even applies) limits the pool from which current PL members would screen.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lafayette helmet on SVP today...

[Bogus Megapardus]

Lafayette helmet on SVP today...

Good eye, TU Owl. Thanks!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Is it safe to come out from under the covers yet, or does the 'Nova-to-PL thread still exist? I can't bear to watch. xcoolx

[RichH2]

You're really expecting it to stop? MplsBison in there so you're missing nothing. The same conversation we've had too often.

[Pard4Life]

Lafayette helmet on SVP today...

What is SVP?

[Franks Tanks]

What is SVP?

ESPN's 12-3 radio show, which is also broadcast on one of the ESPN networks (perhaps the Ocho). The hosts are Scott Van Pelt and Ryan Russillio.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/show?showId=scottvanpelt2009

They have various college football helmets in their studio and they are visible on the TV show.

[Bogus Megapardus]

ESPN's 12-3 radio show, which is also broadcast on one of the ESPN networks (perhaps the Ocho). The hosts are Scott Van Pelt and Ryan Russillio.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/show?showId=scottvanpelt2009

They have various college football helmets in their studio and they are visible on the TV show.

The first two hours are televised on ESPNews.