Liberty in talks with Sun Belt

[The Cats]

With JUM out of the picture,


Liberty in talks with Sun Belt -

"Liberty athletics director Jeff Barber said Tuesday night that the university is in discussions to join the Sun Belt Conference, the first public comments acknowledging Liberty as an option for the conference."


http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liberty_university/article_8cb85a6c-9c0a-11e2-b21a-0019bb30f31a.html

[danefan]

Thank goodness for Monmouth in the Big South.....a NJ school keeping the Big South football conference alive.

[WH49er]

It will be interesting to hear what App and Ga So fans think about this one. Liberty's financial commitment to athletics is there but their religious affiliation makes them a possible PR nightmare for the conference.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

How are visiting fans treated at Liberty in terms of tailgating?

[The Moody1]

With JUM out of the picture,


Liberty in talks with Sun Belt -

"Liberty athletics director Jeff Barber said Tuesday night that the university is in discussions to join the Sun Belt Conference, the first public comments acknowledging Liberty as an option for the conference."


http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liberty_university/article_8cb85a6c-9c0a-11e2-b21a-0019bb30f31a.html

More recent reports state JMU is still in the mix. Benson stated in an interview yesterday that rumors of Liberty in the SB are "far, far, far from the case."

[Libertine]

Why? It hasn't been a problem for the Big South.

The PR nightmare would be if they were to lose to us. xsmiley_wix

[Libertine]

How are visiting fans treated at Liberty in terms of tailgating?

LFN posted an entire article about the visitor experience at Liberty. I'm too lazy to go look for it now but it's on his site.

[Libertine]

More recent reports state JMU is still in the mix. Benson stated in an interview yesterday that rumors of Liberty in the SB are "far, far, far from the case."

http://sunbeltinsider.blogspot.com/

"Today I have learned here at the Insider that Commissioner Benson has acknowledged that there are talks between himself and Liberty at this time. "

<mic drop>

[ASUMountaineer]

It will be interesting to hear what App and Ga So fans think about this one. Liberty's financial commitment to athletics is there but their religious affiliation makes them a possible PR nightmare for the conference.

I'm not sure many App fans care much about their religious affiliation. Many of us that would prefer JMU, Jax St., Missouri St. do so because Liberty would be the only private school in the conference. Their athletic performance has not been good enough to warrant exuberance about their joining. For me, I couldn't care less what their affiliation is, but I do care about what they bring to the conference athletically, and I think it is behind those three schools. But, that's simply the opinion of someone that has absolutely nothing to do with the decision. I'm hoping that JMU makes the move, but we'll see.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

LFN posted an entire article about the visitor experience at Liberty. I'm too lazy to go look for it now but it's on his site.

I remember reading it. I know he was very complimentary of the support and student section. From what I gather he did not have the typical "fan experience" though.

Are fans allowed to have traditional tailgates? Grilling with a few adult beverages?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN posted an entire article about the visitor experience at Liberty. I'm too lazy to go look for it now but it's on his site.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2012/09/sundays-word-rodeo.html

It is one impressive place to watch a football game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I remember reading it. I know he was very complimentary of the support and student section. From what I gather he did not have the typical "fan experience" though.

Are fans allowed to have traditional tailgates? Grilling with a few adult beverages?

Lehigh had their own tailgate section of the parking lot, next to the hockey rink for Liberty's club hockey team. I went down there and talked with some of the folks down there. It was a dry tailgate but aside from that a typical Lehigh tailgate with a bunch of the hearty Lehigh fans that made the trip. ngineer can offer his perspective too - he was there!

[The Moody1]

http://sunbeltinsider.blogspot.com/

"Today I have learned here at the Insider that Commissioner Benson has acknowledged that there are talks between himself and Liberty at this time. "

<mic drop>

Not saying they haven't talked to Liberty. Earlier Benson discussed they were looking at 20+ candidates. He was responding yesterday to rumors that Liberty was next in line, when he stated that was "far, far, far from the case."

[Apps03]

It will be interesting to hear what App and Ga So fans think about this one. Liberty's financial commitment to athletics is there but their religious affiliation makes them a possible PR nightmare for the conference.

I realize some fans have made remarks with that concern. I am not one of those. We are playing sports, not arguing the finer points of the new testament. I am able to separate a sports team from the rest of the university.

[WH49er]

Why? It hasn't been a problem for the Big South.

The PR nightmare would be if they were to lose to us. xsmiley_wix


Do I really need to post some of Falwell's quotes?

[mountaineer in Cane Land]

couple of days ago, Benson, the commissioner of the SBC, went public with this statement, (paraphrase) "everyone believes that Liberty is next to join the SBC, but thats far, far, far from the case", the statement was made on live radio, so we know he said. I interpret the statement as the SBC is not excited about having Liberty join, and are going to do everything they can, to give JMU, or perhaps some other school not being talked about (perhaps Missouri State) the opportunity to join. The big problem I have with Liberty is they have accoumplished nothing, in terms of atheletics, they need to build their resume in the FCS for the next 4-5 years and then move up. If they join, the SBC can problably expect little productivity for the first 4 or 5 years, the SBC cant wait that long, we need schools that can produce immediately, which is important to stabalize the conference.

[asumike83]

Facilities and geography of Liberty would be a plus for Appalachian. I honestly would not be thrilled with the add but I wouldn't be up in arms either. I would put them after JMU, Missouri State and Jacksonville State (in that order) on my hypothetical wish list for a conference mate.

Religion aside, I'm just not sure they are ready for FBS football. No appearances in the FCS playoffs, haven't won more than 6 DI games since 2010. Another thing to consider is whether they will be able to find 85 FBS-caliber athletes that want to not only play at Liberty but abide but their conduct code. BYU may be able to pull it off but Liberty does not have anywhere near the athletic reputation of BYU.

[cmaxwellgsu]

I would prefer it not be Liberty. I don't really have that big of a problem with their views, but I imagine it would ruffle a few feathers on every conference mate's campus. I don't really want to hear about it, or walk through a protest at our stadium when they're in town. I might could deal with all of that if they were a better program, but for me it's more of a potential headache than it's worth at this point. JMO.

[Skjellyfetti]

I don't agree with their politics or philosophy... but, it wouldn't bother me in the least to play in a sports conference with Liberty. I don't think they're the best option out there... but, if they're added, no big deal (to me).

Relatively close road game in a beautiful part of the country

...would just need to scout out a good off-campus tailgating spot.

[dgtw]

I doubt there would be huge protests if they joined. I'd imagine a large number of Sun Belt fans are affiliated with the Southern Baptist Church. While not all would agree with Liberty's views, they aren't going to have a huge problem with them, either.

[Go...gate]

I realize some fans have made remarks with that concern. I am not one of those. We are playing sports, not arguing the finer points of the new testament. I am able to separate a sports team from the rest of the university.

I agree. These are still College Football players who are making the commitment to play in Division I. If they play, as Lombardi put it, "fairly, cleanly and within the rules", what is the problem? A lot of people don't agree with the Catholicism and Notre Dame or the Mormonism and BYU. But once the kids step on the field, they have the game - and hopefully its special values and lessons - in common, and that is what really matters. xtwocentsx

[knucklehead]

I agree. These are still College Football players who are making the commitment to play in Division I. If they play, as Lombardi put it, "fairly, cleanly and within the rules", what is the problem? A lot of people don't agree with the Catholicism and Notre Dame or the Mormonism and BYU. But once the kids step on the field, they have the game - and hopefully its special values and lessons - in common, and that is what really matters. xtwocentsx

Agree completely. Liberty wants a chance to let our Athletes compete at the highest level. The athletes will be just fine playing together like the current big level schools that play LU from time to time. If it was a problem, why would UVA, JMU, WVA, etc come here this year for Baseball and why would we be on VTs football schedule in 15?

[NoCoDanny]

[QUOTE=Lehigh Football Nation;1951200]Lehigh had their own tailgate section of the parking lot, next to the hockey rink for Liberty's club hockey team. I went down there and talked with some of the folks down there. It was a dry tailgate...[QUOTE]

I stopped reading at that point.

[heath]

Baseball does not equal Football,because most state schools are looking for easy,short bus ride,mid week games that do not interfere with the big weekend series. Not only are the tailgates dry,but some campus hotels do not allow alcohol in the banquet area etc.Very friendly people down there,but clueless to the world around Falwellville. The most amusing thing about Liberty is that they willingly know that the football team runs wild, and breaks many rules,but they keep pushing ahead towards the FBS. Asa was not an exceptionxeekx, but the norm when talking about Liberty players.If BYU can be accepted by someone, why not Liberty?xconfusedx

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

This is just getting better and better. Commissioner Benson is truly building a powerhouse.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is just getting better and better. Commissioner Benson is truly building a powerhouse.

Remember the WAC!

[ITmonarch10]

I don't understand why liberty is ahead of everyone else. The fanbase of liberty University is small compared to many of the public\private universities in the VA alone. Who cares if they have money becuase that won't translate into many viewers.

[seantaylor]

Want to part of Liberty and their band of lunatics in the Sun Belt. PR nightmare, and they add zero on the field.

[Tribe4SF]

Lehigh had their own tailgate section of the parking lot, next to the hockey rink for Liberty's club hockey team. I went down there and talked with some of the folks down there. It was a dry tailgate but aside from that a typical Lehigh tailgate with a bunch of the hearty Lehigh fans that made the trip. ngineer can offer his perspective too - he was there!

Last time the Tribe played there we had a sizeable group in the same area, and it was not dry. Just kept original containers out of sight, and there were no problems from anyone.

[fc97]

falwell is dead.

what part of liberty does everyone have a problem with. buffalo sucked when they went fbs. look at that mac schools that still dont do much since moving. hows liberty a liability. you barely hear of problems with them anymore. they have good attendance sitting right at jacksonville state and georgia southern numbers. they have a ton of money, their own network. this is exactly the type of thing that lands you in fbs, money.

its funny to me, the people that want success for their team for the same reasons they dont want success for liberty.

and, if georgia state can make it with horrible on field performance and attendance and uncc can make it without ever playing a game, then liberty at least makes more sense than those.

[Saint3333]

FC brings up a good point. Liberty has their own network which could be a huge asset.

I'd rather have JMU, but I'm not going to cast stones at Liberty.

[Libertine]

Do I really need to post some of Falwell's quotes?

Feel free. Falwell died six years ago and the vast majority of the people still quoting him are those who hated him. Trust me, he would have found that hilarious.

[Laker]

I'd rather have JMU, but I'm not going to cast stones at Liberty.

You know what they say about he who casts the first stone............xsmiley_wix

[knucklehead]

Feel free. Falwell died six years ago and the vast majority of the people still quoting him are those who hated him. Trust me, he would have found that hilarious.

That's the best part. Those who hate him never knew him. He was friendly to everyone even those who hated him.

My tailgates are never dry. We always have tons of sweet tea.

[knucklehead]

falwell is dead.

what part of liberty does everyone have a problem with. buffalo sucked when they went fbs. look at that mac schools that still dont do much since moving. hows liberty a liability. you barely hear of problems with them anymore. they have good attendance sitting right at jacksonville state and georgia southern numbers. they have a ton of money, their own network. this is exactly the type of thing that lands you in fbs, money.

its funny to me, the people that want success for their team for the same reasons they dont want success for liberty.

and, if georgia state can make it with horrible on field performance and attendance and uncc can make it without ever playing a game, then liberty at least makes more sense than those.

Well said. All LU wants is a chance to play at the highest level. It may take time, but you can bet they will pour everything they can into being successful. And LU would be a great supportive conference mate and trust me your fans and ours would be just fine at either Home or Away sites.

About the TV network, it does have national reach, covers most Football and M/W basketball (all home, most away) some baseball and volleyball. I do believe LUs ad said we could use this to help future conference mates.

[asumike83]

falwell is dead.

what part of liberty does everyone have a problem with. buffalo sucked when they went fbs. look at that mac schools that still dont do much since moving. hows liberty a liability. you barely hear of problems with them anymore. they have good attendance sitting right at jacksonville state and georgia southern numbers. they have a ton of money, their own network. this is exactly the type of thing that lands you in fbs, money.

its funny to me, the people that want success for their team for the same reasons they dont want success for liberty.

and, if georgia state can make it with horrible on field performance and attendance and uncc can make it without ever playing a game, then liberty at least makes more sense than those.

It's not that I don't want success for Liberty, they just wouldn't be near the top of my list. Of course, I don't think App even gets a vote in this.

All message board speculation at this point but apparently they are not near the top of the conference's list either. An Arkansas State fan posted on the SBC board that Liberty did not have the support of the university presidents and the league is considering waiting another year, delaying the conference championship game until 2015, to bring in another school (presumably JMU or Missouri State) instead of adding Liberty now. Not sure how credible he is but that is the latest rumor.

I agree that Liberty is much further along that Georgia State and UNC Charlotte but frankly, both of those schools fast-tracked it to FBS and unless they really pull out some stud recruits, their performance will likely show that they weren't ready for the move yet.

Appalachian has history with JMU, they've got excellent fan support and don't bring the baggage that Liberty does. Regardless of how anyone feels about them, it's hard to deny that Liberty is a polarizing university. I also think their religious affiliation and strict honor code could make recruiting difficult, especially when they need 22 more scholarship athletes after not exactly lighting the FCS on fire.

They're free to do as they wish and I wouldn't freak out if they were added. They have good fan support, top-notch facilities (that new baseball stadium looks amazing) and are a geographic fit, especially as far as App is concerned. Overall, I just think there are better options out there if JMU, Missouri State or Jacksonville State are willing and ready to make the move.

[Apphole]

Re: Liberty being added to the SBC from an App perspetive

The good:
-Facilites
-Offering plate $ and lots of it
-Independent TV deal
-Travel
-More eastward shift in the conference
-Another likely 'W' on the schedule for the forceable future

The bad:
-Jerry Fallwel's legacy and the stigma of religious extremism
-PR nightmare. Since gay marriage is so topical right now and LU's anti-gay hiring practices ect
-Relatively poor sports programs overall
-Lack of fan support
-Private school/possible conflicting interest in the future (similar to what we deal with in the SoCon)


Overall, I hate the idea. No school that has an entire department devoted to this has any academic credibility

http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=9821

I'm just praying for JMU at this point. (see what I did there?)

[ccd494]

I think they'd be fine in the Sun Belt. It isn't like when Liberty was being mooted for the CAA and visions of protests must have flashed before the eyes of every northeast college president in the league.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Re: Liberty being added to the SBC from an App perspetive

The good:
-Facilites
-Offering plate $ and lots of it
-Independent TV deal
-Travel
-More eastward shift in the conference
-Another likely 'W' on the schedule for the forceable future
-No PURPLE teams in the Sun Belt!



FIFY

[knucklehead]

Re: Liberty being added to the SBC from an App perspetive

The good:
-Facilites
-Offering plate $ and lots of it
-Independent TV deal
-Travel
-More eastward shift in the conference
-Another likely 'W' on the schedule for the forceable future

The bad:
-Jerry Fallwel's legacy and the stigma of religious extremism
-PR nightmare. Since gay marriage is so topical right now and LU's anti-gay hiring practices ect
-Relatively poor sports programs overall
-Lack of fan support
-Private school/possible conflicting interest in the future (similar to what we deal with in the SoCon)


Overall, I hate the idea. No school that has an entire department devoted to this has any academic credibility

http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=9821

I'm just praying for JMU at this point. (see what I did there?)

1- ask Big South schools if they have any issues with LU
2 - Lack of fan support based on what. You are way off there. It speaks to the basic lack of info from you and others about anything recent LU relevant to athletics.

[fc97]

-PR nightmare. Since gay marriage is so topical right now and LU's anti-gay hiring practices ect
-Relatively poor sports programs overall
-Lack of fan support
-Private school/possible conflicting interest in the future (similar to what we deal with in the SoCon)

the pr of gay marriage is no different than the pr of the confederate flag in south carolina. it will either be ignored or blow over or both. its hot button right now roughly for all the wrong reason.

the fact that the average more fans per home game in both basketballs than app, have made the ncaa tourney more than app and average nearly as many fans per games as gsu means they have no fan support. this boggles the mind. they have so much fan support that they have their own national sports network. and if their is such a stigma with liberty, how do thousands upon thousands go there yearly and even more go for distance ed.

the last sentence sums it up. people like you don't want and hate private schools no matter who it is. its simple public school elitism, the same thing you hear out of people like mplsbison. the private schools are fine and all as long as they stay in their place, which is where you tell them to stay.

posting stuff like this is like watching someone say something enough times hoping people believe it.

i also like the comments about the app/jmu rivalry. there have been 7 games with jmu and 8 games with liberty since 1990. and 16 and 9 overall. app is 12-4 against jmu and 7-2 against liberty. theres history on both counts. two playoff meetings for jmu and a series that is dominated by app in both places. either both are rivalries or neither are. also to note, lots of app fans say western isnt a rival, but jmu and liberty both have won the same number of games against app since 1990 as western has.

just food for though

[knucklehead]

the pr of gay marriage is no different than the pr of the confederate flag in south carolina. it will either be ignored or blow over or both. its hot button right now roughly for all the wrong reason.

the fact that the average more fans per home game in both basketballs than app, have made the ncaa tourney more than app and average nearly as many fans per games as gsu means they have no fan support. this boggles the mind. they have so much fan support that they have their own national sports network. and if their is such a stigma with liberty, how do thousands upon thousands go there yearly and even more go for distance ed.

the last sentence sums it up. people like you don't want and hate private schools no matter who it is. its simple public school elitism, the same thing you hear out of people like mplsbison. the private schools are fine and all as long as they stay in their place, which is where you tell them to stay.

posting stuff like this is like watching someone say something enough times hoping people believe it.

i also like the comments about the app/jmu rivalry. there have been 7 games with jmu and 8 games with liberty since 1990. and 16 and 9 overall. app is 12-4 against jmu and 7-2 against liberty. theres history on both counts. two playoff meetings for jmu and a series that is dominated by app in both places. either both are rivalries or neither are. also to note, lots of app fans say western isnt a rival, but jmu and liberty both have won the same number of games against app since 1990 as western has.

just food for though

There is zero chance I could have said it better. Right on. When it comes to LU, most detractors choose to either live in the past or fabricate arguments.

xbowx xthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This will be snark-free.


Re: Liberty being added to the SBC from an App perspetive

The good:
-Independent TV deal

Are you so sure this is a good thing?



-Another likely 'W' on the schedule for the forceable future

The bad:
-Relatively poor sports programs overall

I dunno. Liberty did make the NCAA Tourney this year, and they've had a lot of success in the Big South overall in football.


Lack of fan support

This is where you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

the last sentence sums it up. people like you don't want and hate private schools no matter who it is. its simple public school elitism, the same thing you hear out of people like mplsbison.

posting stuff like this is like watching someone say something enough times hoping people believe it.

Reps!

[Apphole]

1- ask Big South schools if they have any issues with LU
2 - Lack of fan support based on what. You are way off there. It speaks to the basic lack of info from you and others about anything recent LU relevant to athletics.

The Big South isn't an FBS conference. You actually make the news here and there as a member of an FBS conference.

Averaging ~10,000 fans is another thing that won't translate well to the FBS from the BSC. That's what I mean by poor fan support.

[ASUMountaineer]

This will be snark-free.



Are you so sure this is a good thing?



I dunno. Liberty did make the NCAA Tourney this year, and they've had a lot of success in the Big South overall in football.



This is where you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Didn't they make the tourney with a losing record? They still made it, so kudos.

I don't follow LU athletics, so I don't have much to add. I am more familiar with JMU, so I'm hoping they are added. However, if LU is added, so be it. It won't bother me.

[MplsBison]

Reps!

Yep. I'm sure his private school teacher would be proud of the lack of capitalization.

Fight the system!

[Apphole]

"public school elitism"

Now this is rich. xlolx

[Apphole]

How could anyone say that Liberty has good fan support in football? Maybe by Big South/SoCon standards, but this is the big leagues, folks.

[knucklehead]

10000? You have no clue. We averaged Over 16K last year and would rank very nicely in the SBC. With and FBS move and more quality opponents coming in, it will do nothing but improve.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How could anyone say that Liberty has good fan support in football? Maybe by Big South/SoCon standards, but this is the big leagues, folks.

Oh, I dunno, what about 16,000 per game, above the FBS minimum threshold?

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2012/Internet/attendance/FCS_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

Oh, yeah - that was with a Big South conference schedule and Lehigh as home games.

[knucklehead]

Oh, I dunno, what about 16,000 per game, above the FBS minimum threshold?

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2012/Internet/attendance/FCS_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

Oh, yeah - that was with a Big South conference schedule and Lehigh as home games.

Listen to someone with actual first hand knowledge of an LU gameday and what is going on here. Come for a visit and your perceptions will be replaced with a new thing called reality.

[Apphole]

10000? You have no clue. We averaged nearly 17K last year and would rank very nicely in the SBC. With and FBS move and more quality opponents coming in, it will do nothing but improve.

Looks like I was looking at 5 year old figures. My mistake.

It still doesn't change the fact that 99% of all Sun Belt fans don't want you. There's just too much stigma involved in religious extremsim, prejudice and just plain knuckle-dragging creationism.

[Apphole]

And I would still consider 16k to be poor fanship at the FBS level.

[fc97]

The Big South isn't an FBS conference. You actually make the news here and there as a member of an FBS conference.

Averaging ~10,000 fans is another thing that won't translate well to the FBS from the BSC. That's what I mean by poor fan support.

gsu averages 17000 and liberty 16700. if liberty doesnt have enough, neither does your buddy gsu. but what do i know, im actually quoting numbers.

but to be fair, there are people in fbs that say apps paltry 26000 isnt good enough for fbs.

but thats just the problem with all this from people like you, its great for your school as long as the ones you loathe stay where you think they belong.

[fc97]

And I would still consider 16k to be poor fanship at the FBS level.

tell that to gsu then, the ones you personally were celebrating making the move with you.

[fc97]

Looks like I was looking at 5 year old figures. My mistake.

It still doesn't change the fact that 99% of all Sun Belt fans don't want you. There's just too much stigma involved in religious extremsim, prejudice and just plain knuckle-dragging creationism.

says the pot to the kettle.

[knucklehead]

And I would still consider 16k to be poor fanship at the FBS level.


Again, we are not yet at the FBS level. When we are, and have a bigger chance to bring in better teams, the attendance will rise, especially after we expand the seating to 26K.
And I would argue your point anyway...Look at MAC attendance. LU would be near the top already!

[Apphole]

says the pot to the kettle.

I have yet to encounter a SBC fan that wasn't giddy at the prospect of adding Appalachian.

[asumike83]

i also like the comments about the app/jmu rivalry. there have been 7 games with jmu and 8 games with liberty since 1990. and 16 and 9 overall. app is 12-4 against jmu and 7-2 against liberty. theres history on both counts. two playoff meetings for jmu and a series that is dominated by app in both places. either both are rivalries or neither are.

More recent history with JMU, which came in meaningful games. The last time we played Liberty was in 2002. App/JMU played in 2006, 2007 and 2008. One was a playoff game and the others were games between top 10 teams seeking postseason seeds, the last of which we lost by 3 after blowing a 21-point lead.

We have dominated the all-time series but "the fumble" in the 2007 playoffs where we escaped by 1 point, followed by the nailbiter at JMU in 2008 really sparked some healthy dislike between the two programs on the field. That same sentiment is not there with Liberty.

There is more to being a rival than just playing, things have to happen to foster some disdain for your opponent. Our last two match-ups did that. It also doesn't hurt that App/JMU won all the national titles between 2004-2007 with a postseason match-up mixed in and as institutions, have a lot more in common that App and Liberty.

[fc97]

There is more to being a rival than just playing, things have to happen to foster some disdain for your opponent.

then that would make you rivals with elon. there's real disdain there on both sides. but i'm told that's just not the case.

[asumike83]

then that would make you rivals with elon. there's real disdain there on both sides. but i'm told that's just not the case.

I've never said that Elon, or Western for that matter, are not rivals. App has dominated both series but I consider pretty much all of our SoCon opponents rivals. Not quite enough history there with Samford until last season but that game turned up the heat a little bit.

[MplsBison]

Again, we are not yet at the FBS level. When we are, and have a bigger chance to bring in better teams, the attendance will rise, especially after we expand the seating to 26K.
And I would argue your point anyway...Look at MAC attendance. LU would be near the top already!

I doubt there is anyone who would seriously exclude Liberty from Sun Belt membership for anything related to the football program. I think Liberty has a nice FCS program now and is very capable of having a nice FBS program.

And it's not a public vs. private thing either.


It's entirely to do with religion. That's really the bottom line.

[fc97]

It's entirely to do with religion. That's really the bottom line.

so, its ok to base conference membership based solely on religion but its not ok to base employment on such?

[SU_IT_able]

I doubt there is anyone who would seriously exclude Liberty from Sun Belt membership for anything related to the football program. I think Liberty has a nice FCS program now and is very capable of having a nice FBS program.

And it's not a public vs. private thing either.


It's entirely to do with religion. That's really the bottom line.

You do realize the Sunbelt is largely located in the Bible Belt? I'd guess most of the supporters of most of those schools are more comfortable with Liberty's religion than you might expect.

[pike51]

It's entirely to do with religion. That's really the bottom line.

Religion doesn't seem to hurt BYU...

[MplsBison]

so, its ok to base conference membership based solely on religion but its not ok to base employment on such?

I'm not saying it's right or wrong or that it will be done that way.

[MplsBison]

Religion doesn't seem to hurt BYU...

Why do you say that? It's kept them out of the PAC. They're independent in football and play in a religious conference for non-football.

[MplsBison]

You do realize the Sunbelt is largely located in the Bible Belt? I'd guess most of the supporters of most of those schools are more comfortable with Liberty's religion than you might expect.

Correction: a significant percentage of the people residing in some of the states in which the Sun Belt has members are members of a Baptist church (or at least designate themselves that way).

Texas, no. Arkansas - I don't know. Florida, doubtful. North Carolina? Not sure. But most likely Louisiana, Miss, Ala and Georgia yes.


That says nothing about the supporters of the schools, the admin or the students. They are public schools, keep in mind.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why do you say that? It's kept them out of the PAC. They're independent in football and play in a religious conference for non-football.

What evidence have you that they want in the PAC?

[MplsBison]

What evidence have you that they want in the PAC?

Jesus told me.

[WH49er]

Why do you say that? It's kept them out of the PAC. They're independent in football and play in a religious conference for non-football.

An unwillingness to play sports on Sunday is what kept them out.

[fc97]

Jesus told me.

thats in poor taste

[asumike83]

I don't think simply being affiliated with the Baptist church is what anyone has a problem with. They are a bit of a lightning rod, coming under fire for the elder Falwell's comments, hiring policies, creation classes, allowing guns on campus, etc. I know Falwell has passed and many didn't agree with his comments to begin with but he still put a stench of intolerance on Liberty that they are struggling to overcome.

The job of the university presidents voting on membership is to represent their students, faculty and alumni. If they don't want to associate with Liberty because of their reputation, fair or not, they won't get the vote.

Personally, I think there are better fits from an athletic and institutional standpoint but I don't hate Liberty. I feel for their alumni and fans because Falwell said some pretty disgusting things, which they had no control over, and it still haunts them 10+ years later.

[MplsBison]

An unwillingness to play sports on Sunday is what kept them out.

Huh, OK. Well that is kind've random - I mean, nothing that I'm aware of happens religious on Sunday..

[MplsBison]

thats in poor taste

BS question deserves a BS response.

[MplsBison]

I don't think simply being affiliated with the Baptist church is what anyone has a problem with. They are a bit of a lightning rod, coming under fire for the elder Falwell's comments, hiring policies, creation classes, allowing guns on campus, etc. I know Falwell has passed and many didn't agree with his comments to begin with but he still put a stench of intolerance on Liberty that they are struggling to overcome.

The job of the university presidents voting on membership is to represent their students, faculty and alumni. If they don't want to associate with Liberty because of their reputation, fair or not, they won't get the vote.

Personally, I think there are better fits from an athletic and institutional standpoint but I don't hate Liberty. I feel for their alumni and fans because Falwell said some pretty disgusting things, which they had no control over, and it still haunts them 10+ years later.

Not just disgusting things, as if they were correct but just in poor taste.

He used his position of influence and pseudo-authority to say outright lies, deceive and manipulate.


If they would've given him an enema you could've buried him in a matchbox. If there really is a Hell and he's not there, then I for one want nothing to do with the Judeo-Christian God. His motivations and decisions may be beyond my comprehension -- but that doesn't mean he's not an asshole.

[fc97]

Not just disgusting things, as if they were correct but just in poor taste.

He used his position of influence and pseudo-authority to say outright lies, deceive and manipulate.


If they would've given him an enema you could've buried him in a matchbox. If there really is a Hell and he's not there, then I for one want nothing to do with the Judeo-Christian God. His motivations and decisions may be beyond my comprehension -- but that doesn't mean he's not an asshole.

again, in poor taste on so many parts of this

[Reign of Terrier]

Why not JMU, Jax State, Missouri State, GSU, and App all in the Sun Belt?

[MplsBison]

again, in poor taste on so many parts of this

Well it wasn't my intent to offend anyone here, so I apologize if I did that.

But this is my personal feeling about the man so I don't have to take it back. I'm allowed to have those feelings and say them.

[ASU_Fanatic]

How are visiting fans treated at Liberty in terms of tailgating?

i'm sure they greet you kindly with a sprite

[Libertine]

Well it wasn't my intent to offend anyone here, so I apologize if I did that.


Who are you and what have you done with MplsBison?

[cmaxwellgsu]

I don't think simply being affiliated with the Baptist church is what anyone has a problem with. They are a bit of a lightning rod, coming under fire for the elder Falwell's comments, hiring policies, creation classes, allowing guns on campus, etc. I know Falwell has passed and many didn't agree with his comments to begin with but he still put a stench of intolerance on Liberty that they are struggling to overcome.

The job of the university presidents voting on membership is to represent their students, faculty and alumni. If they don't want to associate with Liberty because of their reputation, fair or not, they won't get the vote.

Personally, I think there are better fits from an athletic and institutional standpoint but I don't hate Liberty. I feel for their alumni and fans because Falwell said some pretty disgusting things, which they had no control over, and it still haunts them 10+ years later.

That's really how I feel. If it weren't for some of the hot button stuff, I would be all for it. Some of the statements are just so far over the top. Maybe I'm making too much of it, but I can see a lot of campus groups wanting to flood the area on game day to either protest for or against Liberty's presence. If they were a marquee FCS program, it might be worth the headache. Unfortunately, they aren't there yet.

[JSUBison]

Where is all this Missouri State talk coming from, did I miss a recent article or interview somewhere?

[Go...gate]

Want to part of Liberty and their band of lunatics in the Sun Belt. PR nightmare, and they add zero on the field.

You guys want an open-minded school, where everybody, including the coaching staffs, are enlightened, like maybe, RUTGERS????

[dgtw]

Are there normally huge protests when Liberty comes to town for a game?

[SumItUp]

no

[Sandlapper Spike]

The college football gameday scene is not really a natural when it comes to holding protests.

[knucklehead]

Who are you and what have you done with MplsBison?


We converted him with our loving attitudes xlolx

[knucklehead]

i'm sure they greet you kindly with a sprite

We actually drink large ammounts a kool ade and sit in a circle singing Kum Ba Yah. Come on guys..they are Normal tail gates sans alcohol for the most part.

[Sader87]

We actually drink large ammounts a kool ade and sit in a circle singing Kum Ba Yah. Come on guys..they are Normal tail gates sans alcohol for the most part.

Such a thing exists????

[PAllen]

How could anyone say that Liberty has good fan support in football? Maybe by Big South/SoCon standards, but this is the big leagues, folks.

xflaggedx

The big leagues? I won't even go into SunBelt and MAC attendance. I'll just stick with, sorry App, your little school in the mountains doesn't get a wiff at the fan support that USC, Alabama, Nebraska, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Tennessee, Penn State, ... do. That's the big leagues. You may be moving up, but you ain't going that far up.

[PAllen]

Correction: a significant percentage of the people residing in some of the states in which the Sun Belt has members are members of a Baptist church (or at least designate themselves that way).

Texas, no. Arkansas - I don't know. Florida, doubtful. North Carolina? Not sure. But most likely Louisiana, Miss, Ala and Georgia yes.

That says nothing about the supporters of the schools, the admin or the students. They are public schools, keep in mind.

Did you just say Texas is not in the bible belt? You REALLY need to get out of the snow more often!

[Tubakat2014]

Did you just say Texas is not in the bible belt? You REALLY need to get out of the snow more often!

Texas is definitely in the Bible Belt, but we have quite a bit of diversity in denominations. Baptists still make up a large part of the Christian population in Texas, but Catholicism is also quite widespread around here. I'm a Lutheran, for what it's worth.

[MplsBison]

i'm sure they greet you kindly with a sprite

Wine should be OK, I'd think?

I'm thinking something like this for a Liberty football ad:

"On Sunday you'll receive Christ's blood....but on SATURDAY, prepare to be drenched with blood from the battlefield as our Christian Warriors crusade against _____, 7pm! Be there! Or be square...."

[MplsBison]

Did you just say Texas is not in the bible belt? You REALLY need to get out of the snow more often!

No. I didn't say that.

[MplsBison]

Texas is definitely in the Bible Belt, but we have quite a bit of diversity in denominations. Baptists still make up a large part of the Christian population in Texas, but Catholicism is also quite widespread around here. I'm a Lutheran, for what it's worth.

Methodists, you mean.

[Tubakat2014]

Methodists, you mean.

Oops... them too.

[dgtw]

There are a lot of Catholics in Texas due to there being a lot of Mexicans.

And if you won't go to see your team play because they won't let you sit around and drink beer on their campus before the game, you have a problem. And, yes I do drink, but if Jax State were playing Samford, I'd still go to the game. (I'm Methodist).

[MplsBison]

There are a lot of Catholics in Texas due to there being a lot of Mexicans.

And if you won't go to see your team play because they won't let you sit around and drink beer on their campus before the game, you have a problem. And, yes I do drink, but if Jax State were playing Samford, I'd still go to the game. (I'm Methodist).

That's obviously not the reason.

It being Fallwell's university is reason enough for me, personally. The guy was just a terrible person.

[MplsBison]

Oops... them too.

Ok I was wrong. Sorry, I just looked up the actual info. Baptists do in fact make up the majority of protestants in Texas and it isn't even close. Something like 21% to 8% for Methodists.

TX still is the headquarters for Methodists, but it's just not as prevalent as I was thinking in the state.

Catholics are still more prevalent, most like because of the reason dgtw noted.

[DFW HOYA]

FWIW, the five largest denominations in Texas, 2010:

Catholic 4,673,500 (up +7.0% from 2000)
Southern Baptist Convention 3,721,318 (up 5.7%)
United Methodist 1,035,168 (up 1.3%)
Church of Christ 351,129 (down 6.9%)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 296,141 (up 90.5%)

http://www.thearda.com/rcms2010/r/s/48/rcms2010_48_state_name_2000_ON.asp

Of course, these numbers are based on active churchgoers. Nondenominational Protestants (or churches unaffiliated with a particular jurisdiction) would not be included above. The Catholic number may be understated as well in that it only counts registered parishioners; hence, the marginal increase above vs. the population gains as a whole.

[fc97]

That's obviously not the reason.

It being Fallwell's university is reason enough for me, personally. The guy was just a terrible person.

you say terrible things on here, but i'd still go see elon play ndsu

[Lehigh Football Nation]

you say terrible things on here, but i'd still go see elon play ndsu

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to fc97 again.

[MplsBison]

you say terrible things on here, but i'd still go see elon play ndsu

Please. I say nothing terrible on here. Nothing like what Falwell has said.

And I don't have any authority in the slightest, unlike him.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't have any authority in the slightest.

+1 Truth

[Bisonwinagn]

Please. I say nothing terrible on here. Nothing like what Falwell has said.

And I don't have any authority in the slightest, unlike him.

So when you disagree with someone that makes them a terrible person?????? Then that makes you a terrible person as well in the eyes of Falwell.

[elcid83]

That's the best part. Those who hate him never knew him. He was friendly to everyone even those who hated him.

My tailgates are never dry. We always have tons of sweet tea.

I've tailgated twice at Liberty when Gardner-Webb played there. My tailgates there were loaded with alcohol.

Go Runnin' Bulldogs!

[Eaglesrus]

There are a lot of Catholics in Texas due to there being a lot of Mexicans.

And if you won't go to see your team play because they won't let you sit around and drink beer on their campus before the game, you have a problem. And, yes I do drink, but if Jax State were playing Samford, I'd still go to the game. (I'm Methodist).

Not a problem; there's an Appleby's about a quarter of a mile from Samford's campus. That's where we had our pre-game libations in 2011, and we'll probably be there again this year.

[MplsBison]

I say nothing terrible on here.+1 Truth

Thanks!

[MplsBison]

So when you disagree with someone that makes them a terrible person?????? Then that makes you a terrible person as well in the eyes of Falwell.

No it doesn't. I can't barely understand your argument because you're spitting all over the screen. Calm down, take a breath and try again.

[fc97]

Please. I say nothing terrible on here. Nothing like what Falwell has said.

And I don't have any authority in the slightest, unlike him.

in this thread alone you've said things that many find terrible and deplorable and you find no problem with it other than a sideways apology. i'm not asking for an apology, nor am i tied to liberty. youve made offhand jokes about christianity in threads, youve also said falwell should be in hell. both of those are distasteful.

also, i would like to note, what sort of authority do you think falwell had? people listened to him, but, he was only president and founder of a university. outside of that he was a pastor and televangilist, which makes everything he did and said voluntary to listen to and had no authority or influence over anyone outside of guiding the growth of the school, which then, still had a BoT running business.

[MplsBison]

Keep it on topic, fc.

I'm not going to allow you to drag me into your religious flame war. If you want to discuss in private, pm me.

[fc97]

my goodness

you bring it up, make the insults and then accuse me of a religious flame war. well done! you followed the guide for trolling to the best of your ability.

[ASUMountaineer]

xflaggedx

The big leagues? I won't even go into SunBelt and MAC attendance. I'll just stick with, sorry App, your little school in the mountains doesn't get a wiff at the fan support that USC, Alabama, Nebraska, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Tennessee, Penn State, ... do. That's the big leagues. You may be moving up, but you ain't going that far up.

WTF? Are you serious? I had no idea. I need to rethink this whole endeavor now!!! xcoffeex

[bjtheflamesfan]

Alright Mpls and fc, I do not give a flying hoot who started it, but Im finishing it. If you two want to debate religion or other matters not related to the topic of Liberty being in talks with the Sun Belt, take it to PMs or maybe start a topic in one of the off topic discussion areas or something.

[AshevilleApp2]

Alright Mpls and fc, I do not give a flying hoot who started it, but Im finishing it. If you two want to debate religion or other matters not related to the topic of Liberty being in talks with the Sun Belt, take it to PMs or maybe start a topic in one of the off topic discussion areas or something.


This ain't finished until Mpls says its finished! xrotatehx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So, does this change anything?

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/22030790/conference-usa-weighing-16-team-model


C-USA is considering expansion to 16 teams in football, commissioner Britton Banowsky said Monday.

Western Kentucky replaces Tulsa as the 14th C-USA member for 2014. Last week, the Golden Hurricanes bolted to the American Athletic Conference, formerly known as the Big East.

“We've modeled it at 16, and it does kind of create some divisions that are a little more geographically connected,” Banowsky said. “We haven't acted on it. I think personally a larger conference is better because you get some efficiencies, you get the benefit of a bigger group. We don't want to lose our identity in the process. We're just kind of moderating the growth at a pace where people are comfortable. It could be folks are just comfortable (at 14).”

Banowsky said it's too early to speculate about potential new members, while adding he's not sure how flexible his membership will be after rampant change in recent months.

Arkansas State or Louisiana-Lafayette from the Sun Belt, which has lost several teams to C-USA, could be attractive options.

Karl Benson's rehabilitation of the Sun Belt is going great. At this rate you have to wonder if the Sun Belt will be sponsoring football in a couple of years.

If this comes true, the new Sun Belt will be nine teams. Of those teams, South Alabama and Georgia State didn't have football six years ago, and Texas State, App, Georgia Southern were all still in FCS six years ago as well.

Troy, Idaho, NMSU and Louisiana-Monroe, mplsbison's FBS shining example to follow, round out the conference.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Just another reason why JMU isn't going to make a quick move to the Sun Belt.

[FargoBison]

Just another reason why JMU isn't going to make a quick move to the Sun Belt.

They are probably gunning for one of those CUSA spots.

It appears JMU isn't like some of the other FCS schools that have moved up, they have some options.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They are probably gunning for one of those CUSA spots.

It appears JMU isn't like some of the other FCS schools that have moved up, they have some options.

Does ODU want an in-state rival that's a conference-mate, though?

[MplsBison]

So, does this change anything?

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/22030790/conference-usa-weighing-16-team-model



Karl Benson's rehabilitation of the Sun Belt is going great. At this rate you have to wonder if the Sun Belt will be sponsoring football in a couple of years.

If this comes true, the new Sun Belt will be nine teams. Of those teams, South Alabama and Georgia State didn't have football six years ago, and Texas State, App, Georgia Southern were all still in FCS six years ago as well.

Troy, Idaho, NMSU and Louisiana-Monroe, mplsbison's FBS shining example to follow, round out the conference.

All the more opportunities for the creme of the crop to ditch the no value add FCS brand.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Does ODU want an in-state rival that's a conference-mate, though?

General consensus is the answer to that is "Yes".

[FargoBison]

Does ODU want an in-state rival that's a conference-mate, though?

I read somewhere that ODU was pushing for them to be invited, that said I'm not sure if the rest of the CUSA is on board with that idea.

[SpeedkingATL]

Not a problem; there's an Appleby's about a quarter of a mile from Samford's campus. That's where we had our pre-game libations in 2011, and we'll probably be there again this year.

Last year we had plenty of alcohol on Samford's campus and had no issues; of course we used plastic cups to not draw attention. Four years prior they set the App tailgate area across the street from campus within easy walking distance from the stadium so we could have our heathen alcohol driven tailgate. They even provided a shuttle bus although it wasn't necessary. Biggest issue is the lack of tailgate parking at Sammy, not any alcohol rules...

[FlameThrower]

I personally do not understand why Liberty would want to move to the SBC or the MAC which are the two toilets of all the FBS conferences. JMU should stay put and Liberty should try to find a better FCS conference.

[Seawolf97]

I personally do not understand why Liberty would want to move to the SBC or the MAC which are the two toilets of all the FBS conferences. JMU should stay put and Liberty should try to find a better FCS conference. Liberty could possibly jump to the So Con and JMU is already in the CAA and cant go much higher in FCS. If both programs feel they have support amd money(Key word) to jump to the FBS then the Sun Belt or Mac is the next step. Forget the ACC, SEC and any other power conference. Nothing personal but Liberty and JMU are total unkowns at that level nor would they survive. Nothing wrong with either the SB or MAC as the next step. You get to play FBS and BCS teams in non conference games some at home and you build your program fron there.Gotta rememeber also you bring your other sports with you and they have to be ready also for the higher level of competition. If Liberty and JMU can pull it off then great but baby steps first.

[fc97]

Liberty could possibly jump to the So Con and JMU is already in the CAA and cant go much higher in FCS. If both programs feel they have support amd money(Key word) to jump to the FBS then the Sun Belt or Mac is the next step. Forget the ACC, SEC and any other power conference. Nothing personal but Liberty and JMU are total unkowns at that level nor would they survive. Nothing wrong with either the SB or MAC as the next step. You get to play FBS and BCS teams in non conference games some at home and you build your program fron there.Gotta rememeber also you bring your other sports with you and they have to be ready also for the higher level of competition. If Liberty and JMU can pull it off then great but baby steps first.

but the deal with that is, why would the socon take a school without a long term investment in the conference. jacksonville state would be here now if the socon wanted to take an unstable team. i'll admit, liberty would be a good add, but, from a socon perspective, the risk is too great when you want to add stability.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Liberty wouldn't want to join the SoCon anyway. It does nothing to help Liberty in its ultimate goal of moving up to FBS.

And as said, the SoCon doesn't need schools that are ready to jump to FBS at a moment's notice.

[FlameThrower]

I was trying to get across that Liberty should move to a better FCS conference and plan on staying for 10+ years to improve their football brand, I think the SoCon would be a great choice and I expect that the attendance at the home games would increase greatly.

[Sir William]

Note: My brother-in-law is Lance Hansen who was a all-American lineman for the Citadel when they won their national championship.

National championship in what? Not football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Liberty Flames Nation with an FOI request from JMU gets this:

http://www.libertyflamesnation.com/2013/04/2014-map-of-sun-belt.html

2 observations:

1. It includes WKU, who is gone to C-USA next year.

2. I had no idea Texas State was that isolated in the conference. Do they bus to the Louisiana dashes? If, as rumored, Louisiana dash Lafayette and Arkansas State go to the for-now 16 team C-USA, Texas State may not have a single bus trip on their regular-season schedule. For anything.

[FlameThrower]

Breaking News: Flames Nation is reporting http://www.libertyflamesnation.com/2013/04/2014-map-of-sun-belt.html

Things don't add up (WKU), and things have changed since this was sent to JMU.

[FlameThrower]

National championship in what? Not football.

Sorry about that, I meant to say SoCon Championship.

[SumItUp]

2. I had no idea Texas State was that isolated in the conference. Do they bus to the Louisiana dashes? If, as rumored, Louisiana dash Lafayette and Arkansas State go to the for-now 16 team C-USA, Texas State may not have a single bus trip on their regular-season schedule. For anything.

Sun Belt members include non-football schools University of Texas-Arlington & University of Arkansas-Little Rock.

[ASUMountaineer]

Breaking News: Flames Nation is reporting http://www.libertyflamesnation.com/2013/04/2014-map-of-sun-belt.html

Things don't add up (WKU), and things have changed since this was sent to JMU.

Yeah...it says the email was sent in February 2013. My guess is, that App State and GSU were givens, and at this point the NMSU/Idaho additions were not yet approved. Assuming WKU stayed, you move USA to the West, and you're done. With WKU gone and NMSU/Idaho added, it doesn't make sense to add both JMU and Liberty, unless you pull a western team. Many seem to keep mentioning Lamar. If the SBC decided to go big, it could invite JMU, Liberty, and Lamar. I don't suspect that would happen, but who knows? This is also assuming that no one else leaves the SBC.

If one more team leaves, you could add JMU and Liberty and still move USA to the West.

[MplsBison]

Breaking News: Flames Nation is reporting http://www.libertyflamesnation.com/2013/04/2014-map-of-sun-belt.html

Things don't add up (WKU), and things have changed since this was sent to JMU.

That map does not show:

- WKU has left for CUSA
- New Mexico St and Idaho were added for football only
- UA-Little Rock and UT-Arlington provide non-football travel partners for Ark St and TX St, respectively

In fact, everyone in that configuration has a natural travel partner (for non-football sports) except App St.

[DFW HOYA]

In fact, everyone in that configuration has a natural travel partner (for non-football sports) except App St.

How many conferences even have travel partners these days? Very few.

[aceinthehole]

How many conferences even have travel partners these days? Very few.

Well, of course the Ivy. The NEC did, before the recent defections.

[MplsBison]

How many conferences even have travel partners these days? Very few.

For non-football sports? Every.

If you're asking about literal travel partners...I don't really know what that means.

In the modern sense it just means that visiting team A can go to travel partner I on Friday, travel up to travel partner II after the game and play them on Saturday before leaving out back home.

[UNHWildcat18]

C-USA looking to possibly go to 16 teams. If they do and invite an FBS school and JMU I have a feeling JMU would accept such an offer. I have no idea if they will actually make a serious run at adding 2 more teams. Other than that I see JMU staying in the CAA.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/22030790/conference-usa-weighing-16-team-model

[Lehigh Football Nation]

C-USA looking to possibly go to 16 teams. If they do and invite an FBS school and JMU I have a feeling JMU would accept such an offer. I have no idea if they will actually make a serious run at adding 2 more teams. Other than that I see JMU staying in the CAA.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/22030790/conference-usa-weighing-16-team-model

Was wondering about adding Arkansas State and JMU together.

[MplsBison]

C-USA looking to possibly go to 16 teams. If they do and invite an FBS school and JMU I have a feeling JMU would accept such an offer. I have no idea if they will actually make a serious run at adding 2 more teams. Other than that I see JMU staying in the CAA.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/22030790/conference-usa-weighing-16-team-model

I have a very hard time believing any internet message board poster who says JMU would turn down a FBS offer, period.

[ASUMountaineer]

Was wondering about adding Arkansas State and JMU together.

CUSA is two short in the West division. I'd be surprised if they added an eastern school, especially an FCS school at this point. I would think, given its market and that CUSA has no team in Georgia (already has one in VA), that Georgia State would have a leg up on JMU.

My suspicion, which is based on geography so it is probably off base, is that if CUSA adds two teams they will be in the West. I know everyone seems to be mentioning ULL and Arkansas State, but I wouldn't rule out Texas State and NMSU just yet.

[MplsBison]

CUSA is two short in the West division. I'd be surprised if they added an eastern school, especially an FCS school at this point. I would think, given its market and that CUSA has no team in Georgia (already has one in VA), that Georgia State would have a leg up on JMU.

My suspicion, which is based on geography so it is probably off base, is that if CUSA adds two teams they will be in the West. I know everyone seems to be mentioning ULL and Arkansas State, but I wouldn't rule out Texas State and NMSU just yet.

NMSU would go well with UTEP, but I don't think UTSA, UNT or Rice would want anything to do with letting TX St in the league. LA Tech makes a decent travel partner with UNT anyhow, now that Tulane and Tulsa are out.

JMU would then be the travel partner for Marshall, with ODU matching up with Charlotte.

Everyone has decent travel partner matchups:

New Mex St - Tex El Paso
Tex San Antonio - Rice
No. Texas - LA Tech
So. Miss - Ala Birmingham
West KY - Middle TN
Charlotte - Old Dominion
Marshall - JMU
FL Intl - FL Atlantic

[ASUMountaineer]

NMSU would go well with UTEP, but I don't think UTSA, UNT or Rice would want anything to do with letting TX St in the league. LA Tech makes a decent travel partner with UNT anyhow, now that Tulane and Tulsa are out.

JMU would then be the travel partner for Marshall, with ODU matching up with Charlotte.

Everyone has decent travel partner matchups:

New Mex St - Tex El Paso
Tex San Antonio - Rice
No. Texas - LA Tech
So. Miss - Ala Birmingham
West KY - Middle TN
Charlotte - Old Dominion
Marshall - JMU
FL Intl - FL Atlantic

Adding JMU puts 9 teams in the east and 5 in the west. That's why, I don't suspect an addition in the east.

NMSU, to me, makes more sense than Texas State or ULL. Arkansas State would open a new state and would not be an outlier. Again, if CUSA were to make an addition to the east, my money is on Georgia State over JMU.

[walliver]

Adding JMU puts 9 teams in the east and 5 in the west. That's why, I don't suspect an addition in the east.

NMSU, to me, makes more sense than Texas State or ULL. Arkansas State would open a new state and would not be an outlier. Again, if CUSA were to make an addition to the east, my money is on Georgia State over JMU.


I know the Atlanta market is desirable, but I'm not sure if C-USA is desperate enough to take Georgia State. It would behoove them to wait a year or two to see if the football program there is sustainable.

[MplsBison]

I know the Atlanta market is desirable, but I'm not sure if C-USA is desperate enough to take Georgia State. It would behoove them to wait a year or two to see if the football program there is sustainable.

Sustainable??

Do you really think the school is going to invest all the money they did, 85 scholarships, new football practice facility.....so they can turn around after 5 years and say "you know what...we gave it our best shot! No harm, no foul - but we're closing the program."


Come on....

[MplsBison]

Adding JMU puts 9 teams in the east and 5 in the west. That's why, I don't suspect an addition in the east.

NMSU, to me, makes more sense than Texas State or ULL. Arkansas State would open a new state and would not be an outlier. Again, if CUSA were to make an addition to the east, my money is on Georgia State over JMU.

It's 8 and 6. The Texas schools plus NM and LT are all in the Mountain or Central time zones. I don't see why it needs to be more than that.

Travel partners for non-football are what's important. Having JMU together with Marshall makes sense.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Adding JMU puts 9 teams in the east and 5 in the west. That's why, I don't suspect an addition in the east.

UAB and Southern Miss heading West would make it 8 and 8, which is why I thought 1 East, one West.

East: ODU, WKU, FAU, FIU, UNCC, Marshall, MTSU, JMU
West: UTEP, UTSA, Southern Miss, UAB, La Tech, North Texas, Rice, Arkansas State

UAB and Southern Miss almost have to do it this way in order for it to be "sustainable". UAB is on the verge of disaster the way things are now, and games against ODU are not going to balance their books. La. Tech might.

[ASUMountaineer]

It's 8 and 6. The Texas schools plus NM and LT are all in the Mountain or Central time zones. I don't see why it needs to be more than that.

Travel partners for non-football are what's important. Having JMU together with Marshall makes sense.

That's assuming NMSU is added. If so, it is still unbalanced divisions. I have yet to see one conference have unbalanced divisions while having an even amount of schools.

[ASUMountaineer]

UAB and Southern Miss heading West would make it 8 and 8, which is why I thought 1 East, one West.

East: ODU, WKU, FAU, FIU, UNCC, Marshall, MTSU, JMU
West: UTEP, UTSA, Southern Miss, UAB, La Tech, North Texas, Rice, Arkansas State

That could end up happening. CUSA has not seemed to be as concerned with travel partners as it has new markets, which is why I personally think that Georgia State has a leg up on JMU, product on the field notwithstanding. From what I've read, neither Southern Miss or UAB want to go to the west division. So, that could lead to two west teams being added.

It's all speculation at this point, and if the article posted by CBS yesterday about the Gof5 payouts comes to be, CUSA may be wise to not add any new schools.

[ASUMountaineer]

I know the Atlanta market is desirable, but I'm not sure if C-USA is desperate enough to take Georgia State. It would behoove them to wait a year or two to see if the football program there is sustainable.

I hear what you're saying, but CUSA has yet to demonstrate that the sustainability of a program is necessary for an invite. See, UNCC.

[MplsBison]

UAB and Southern Miss heading West would make it 8 and 8, which is why I thought 1 East, one West.

East: ODU, WKU, FAU, FIU, UNCC, Marshall, MTSU, JMU
West: UTEP, UTSA, Southern Miss, UAB, La Tech, North Texas, Rice, Arkansas State

UAB and Southern Miss almost have to do it this way in order for it to be "sustainable". UAB is on the verge of disaster the way things are now, and games against ODU are not going to balance their books. La. Tech might.

Yep, that looks right.

Except NM St makes much more sense (partner and rival for UTEP) than Ark St, who would be on their own with LT-UNT and WKU-MTSU being partners.

[MplsBison]

That could end up happening. CUSA has not seemed to be as concerned with travel partners as it has new markets, which is why I personally think that Georgia State has a leg up on JMU, product on the field notwithstanding. From what I've read, neither Southern Miss or UAB want to go to the west division. So, that could lead to two west teams being added.

It's all speculation at this point, and if the article posted by CBS yesterday about the Gof5 payouts comes to be, CUSA may be wise to not add any new schools.

You just want App and Georgia Southern to be paired up in the Sun Belt! I don't blame you...App is kinda on their own right now with GA St and GSU being obvious partners.

Ala-B' and So Miss may not like it...but it's what's best for the conference.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ala-B' and So Miss may not like it...but it's what's best for the conference.

What's best for the conference might actually bankrupt UAB. Just another day in the new reality of non-championship-caliber FBS football.

[walliver]

I hear what you're saying, but CUSA has yet to demonstrate that the sustainability of a program is necessary for an invite. See, UNCC.

I think UNCC is a safer bet. The only college football teams in the Charlotte area now are Davidson and JC Smith. UNCC is building a new appropriately sized stadium, and appears to have a plan. UNCC may not pan out well, but there is great potential. GaSt on the other hand, and performed quite poorly in many facets of their program with an actual football team (poor teams, horrible attendance, a stadium that will always look empty even if they bring in 25-30,000 fans).

[ASUMountaineer]

You just want App and Georgia Southern to be paired up in the Sun Belt! I don't blame you...App is kinda on their own right now with GA St and GSU being obvious partners.

Ala-B' and So Miss may not like it...but it's what's best for the conference.

I do want what's best for App State, but I'm looking at this objectively based on what I've seen/read. It may not come to pass, but it's how I currently see it. As for CUSA adding schools, if this proposed revenue sharing happens, CUSA will already be getting a lower base payout...why would they dilute it further? Maybe they will, but it would seem illogical based on that proposal.

[ASUMountaineer]

I think UNCC is a safer bet. The only college football teams in the Charlotte area now are Davidson and JC Smith. UNCC is building a new appropriately sized stadium, and appears to have a plan. UNCC may not pan out well, but there is great potential. GaSt on the other hand, and performed quite poorly in many facets of their program with an actual football team (poor teams, horrible attendance, a stadium that will always look empty even if they bring in 25-30,000 fans).

Potential does not necessarily equal "sustainable."

I still don't see, at least in the short-term, how JMU is a better addition for CUSA than Georgia State. They already have a team in VA with a sizable TV market and a recruiting hotbed, neither of which JMU offers. They have no team in Georgia, and Georgia State is located in one of the biggest TV markets and also in a recruiting hotbed.

The first few years of a football team's existence is not necessarily a good barometer. If UNCC does just as poorly on the field, how will that potential look? I'm not saying UNCC was a bad addition for CUSA, I'm simply saying that UNCC and Georgia State are more similar than they are different as far as football goes.

I still believe that, if CUSA adds two teams, they will be in the west. Though, I would not be surprised at all if they actually do add in the east.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm not saying UNCC was a bad addition for CUSA, I'm simply saying that UNCC and Georgia State are more similar than they are different as far as football goes.

As far as I know UNCC hasn't embarrassed themselves on gamedays just yet.

[ASUMountaineer]

As far as I know UNCC hasn't embarrassed themselves on gamedays just yet.

Are you just being disagreeable? xsmhx

Give it time, let's see how they do when they actually play. They may surprise us all and be phenomenal, or they may turn out to have a very similar on-field product as Georgia State. We shall see.

Oh, and I did notice you left this out of your quoted portion:


The first few years of a football team's existence is not necessarily a good barometer. If UNCC does just as poorly on the field, how will that potential look?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Give it time, let's see how they do when they actually play. They may surprise us all and be phenomenal, or they may turn out to have a very similar on-field product as Georgia State. We shall see.

But you didn't say that. You said they were the same.

[MplsBison]

What's best for the conference might actually bankrupt UAB. Just another day in the new reality of non-championship-caliber FBS football.

No, it's just another day in your wet dream fantasy. Pretty sad that you would enjoy a college football program going bankrupt, as if such a thing is possible.

[MplsBison]

Mountaineer,

You know LFN. You know his shtick. You know he hates, HATES any FBS move up with a firey passion and will go far out of his way to say whatever he thinks will irritate anyone commenting on such schools as much as he can, as often as he can.

Sometimes he has good posts and good info. Otherwise, I would just refrain from getting too engaged with him on these topics.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN... has good posts and good info.

Thanks!

[ASUMountaineer]

Mountaineer,

You know LFN. You know his shtick. You know he hates, HATES any FBS move up with a firey passion and will go far out of his way to say whatever he thinks will irritate anyone commenting on such schools as much as he can, as often as he can.

Sometimes he has good posts and good info. Otherwise, I would just refrain from getting too engaged with him on these topics.

He is outwardly biased in his views against schools making a move to the FBS. I am indifferent and feel that each school has to do what it believes to be in its best interest. He enjoys arguing about it, to the point that he trolls people. I don't care enough to invest that much energy into the decisions of schools that I have no affiliation with. To each their own.

[ASUMountaineer]

But you didn't say that. You said they were the same.

Wrong. I said that they were more similar than they were different (see below). You even quoted this in an earlier response. You either misread the quote, or you're trolling. Try again.


The first few years of a football team's existence is not necessarily a good barometer. If UNCC does just as poorly on the field, how will that potential look? I'm not saying UNCC was a bad addition for CUSA, I'm simply saying that UNCC and Georgia State are more similar than they are different as far as football goes.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Thanks!

Might want to read that in context before you pat yourself on the back for that one boss

[MplsBison]

You know LFN. You know his shtick. You know he hates, HATES any FBS move up with a firey passion and will go far out of his way to say whatever he thinks will irritate anyone commenting on such schools as much as he can, as often as he can.
Thanks!

It wasn't a compliment.

[SoCon2013]

then that would make you rivals with elon. there's real disdain there on both sides. but i'm told that's just not the case.


Elon is a rival for ASU. Right behind WCU, GSU, Furman, Citadel, and Wofford.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Liberty and Elon havent faced off in football since 2008, when Liberty mowed Elon down and they had a chance at an at large with a victory in Lynchburg.

[FlameThrower]

According to Flames Nation rumors are surfacing that Sun Belt officials will be on campus this coming week at Liberty University https://twitter.com/intent/user?profile_id=838353498&screen_name=Flames_Nation&tw_i=322870284665380864&tw_p=embeddedtimeline&tw_w=261541527598272512

[FlameThrower]

The Sun Belt can acknowledge Liberty, or at least I guess they can. http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/georgia-state-sports/2013/apr/11/sun-belt-acknowledges-talking-liberty/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Sun Belt can acknowledge Liberty, or at least I guess they can. http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/georgia-state-sports/2013/apr/11/sun-belt-acknowledges-talking-liberty/

Oof.


Adding Liberty – again not a done deal and based upon the wording of Benson's answer, perhaps a one-sided conversation -- would solve both.

I mentioned James Madison as a school the Sun Belt was interested in adding a few weeks ago. It appears that the Dukes aren’t ready to declare their FBS intentions, and won’t be by the NCAA’s annual deadline of June 1. Benson again declined to comment.

Boy does this say a lot.

[MplsBison]

Oof.



Boy does this say a lot.

Such as?

[MplsBison]

The Sun Belt can acknowledge Liberty, or at least I guess they can. http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/georgia-state-sports/2013/apr/11/sun-belt-acknowledges-talking-liberty/

Looking at Liberty's athletics website, they do have really nice facilities.

[Burn the Horse]

We seem to have mixed emotions on the subject over on SunBeltbbs.com

[Saint3333]

From an App perspective, Liberty adds a bus trip for all sports, they have great facilities and funding. While I can see them getting better in non-revenue sports I never see them being a threat in football. They also have a TV platform that is very nice.

I'm not jumping up at the add, but from strictly a sportserspective it could be worse.

I'd rather have JMU, but they are a better add for us than another western school.

[bjtheflamesfan]

From an App perspective, Liberty adds a bus trip for all sports, they have great facilities and funding. While I can see them getting better in non-revenue sports I never see them being a threat in football. They also have a TV platform that is very nice.

I'm not jumping up at the add, but from strictly a sportserspective it could be worse.

I'd rather have JMU, but they are a better add for us than another western school.

If they cant make the call by June 1, then youll probably see Liberty get the invite because I think Jerry Falwell Jr (or AD Jeff Barber Im not sure) said that they could have a decision on an invite within 48 hours (and itd probably be accepted when that decision happens)

[FlameThrower]

From an App perspective, Liberty adds a bus trip for all sports, they have great facilities and funding. While I can see them getting better in non-revenue sports I never see them being a threat in football. They also have a TV platform that is very nice.

I'm not jumping up at the add, but from strictly a sportserspective it could be worse.

I'd rather have JMU, but they are a better add for us than another western school.

I wasn't aware that App had already won a Sun Belt championship, or played in a bowl game. Oh, that's right, you haven't! However, you couldn't tell it by listening to any App fan. What a disgustingly arrogant fan base App has, they haven't played a snap of FBS football and already they believe that they are FBS National Championship contenders. To actually say that "I never see them being a threat in football", what arrogance you displayed. It's not like Liberty hasn't beaten App before because they have, the Flames are 2-7 against App.

The truth is that if Liberty is accepted into the Sun Belt both they and App will be rookie members in a FBS conference and on equal footing. The Michigan win was great but you guys need to cool it with your superior attitude because I have a feeling you're about to get a rude awakening into FBS life.

Furthermore, before any more of you secular/humanist spew anymore of your anti-religious garbage take the time to read the Constitution of the United States of America and specifically the Amendment I [1791]. You secular/humanist need to take a break from spewing on the constitution every chance you get, and those who practice the religious freedoms guaranteed by it.

[Saint3333]

Chill out crazy flamer. If App will have a rough time in the FBS that doesn't bode well for you guys.

2-7, sounds about right, our the curse of time That win percentage for us would fall in the not a threat category.

Not many people want you guys, don't try and make enemies with those that wouldn't mind being in a conference with you.

[FlameThrower]

Chill out crazy flamer. If App will have a rough time in the FBS that doesn't bode well for you guys.

2-7, sounds about right, our the curse of time That win percentage for us would fall in the not a threat category.

Not many people want you guys, don't try and make enemies with those that wouldn't mind being in a conference with you.

I would respond that App fans need to chill out. It is erroneous for App fans to think that the success they maintained at the FCS level will continue at the FBS level. What can App offer a recruit that any other state school cannot offer them? Absolutely nothing, I don't see any recruits picking App over UNC, NC State, Wake, Duke, or East Carolina as far as in-state recruiting. App is a regional school at best, they are not going to get big time recruits from California, Florida, Ohio, nor Texas. However, Liberty is a national school with a reach into every state. Don't think that I am putting Liberty on the same footing with BYU or Notre Dame at this time, but it is not hard to imaging top Christian athletes committing to Liberty. College football experts have said that they would not compare Liberty with Notre Dame, but if BYU can do it why not Liberty. App will never have the reach that Liberty University has in recruiting if and when they move up to FBS, App is just another state school among many others, App just doesn't stand out among their peers, lets face it there no Alabama and not going to be.

It is funny how you secular/humanist think that you have a say in who gets to join your conference(s), you don't! In the end money decides who gets in and who doesn't. Therefore, it doesn't matter how many of you people want us or not, you don't get a say. And as for making enemies with fans in any conference, I don't care. You secular/humanist mistake meekness for weakness which is a mistake on your part.

However, I realize that we are not going to agree on anything. If Liberty is accepted into a FBS conference let's wait twenty years and then compare App to Liberty.

[Saint3333]

Two points - I have never brought religion to this discussion. I am a Christian you are WAY off based and it is rather disappointing at your tone based upon your faith.

Second App fans are delusional yet you are claiming to be the next BYU?

Where did I say anything about beating ACC teams, I said we would beat Liberty and as you have stated App has won 75+% of our meetings.

Do you go through life making these types of assumptions everyday, I'll pray for you tonight. As I said I'm not as against Liberty as most fans are.

[FlameThrower]

Two points - I have never brought religion to this discussion. I am a Christian you are WAY off based and it is rather disappointing at your tone based upon your faith.

Second App fans are delusional yet you are claiming to be the next BYU?

Where did I say anything about beating ACC teams, I said we would beat Liberty and as you have stated App has won 75+% of our meetings.

Do you go through life making these types of assumptions everyday, I'll pray for you tonight. As I said I'm not as against Liberty as most fans are.

The wording of your post is ambiguous at best. You claim to be a Christian but you say "your faith" as in mine but not yours. At no time did I claim that Liberty was the next BYU but used them as a model to follow as far as athletics is concerned. I never said anything about App beating ACC teams, I was talking about recruiting. Appalachian has won 71.5% and not 75+% of our meetings, but the sample size is far too small to draw any conclusions. Do you go through life making the assumption that most fans are against Liberty University, where is your evidence? If you say your evidence is based upon this and other forum boards you have a flawed sample size for your data.

However, I do believe that App and Liberty could have a beautiful rivalry.

[Sader87]

Damn secular, humanists....they're ruining this country dammit!!!

[FlameThrower]

Damn secular, humanists....they're ruining this country dammit!!!

It's secular/humanist, but you would have known that if you had went to the school that Rudy went to. By the way you should be darn proud of your school regardless if it's the school that Rudy went to or not, and don't let anyone tell you any different!!!

[Saint3333]

The wording of your post is ambiguous at best. You claim to be a Christian but you say "your faith" as in mine but not yours. At no time did I claim that Liberty was the next BYU but used them as a model to follow as far as athletics is concerned. I never said anything about App beating ACC teams, I was talking about recruiting. Appalachian has won 71.5% and not 75+% of our meetings, but the sample size is far too small to draw any conclusions. Do you go through life making the assumption that most fans are against Liberty University, where is your evidence? If you say your evidence is based upon this and other forum boards you have a flawed sample size for your data.

However, I do believe that App and Liberty could have a beautiful rivalry.

Your faith, as in your personal faith, wow you are really grasping at straws now.

7 divided by 9 is 78% for those scoring at home. 9 games is plenty and luckily for you we haven't played since 2002. How many do you think you would have won in the last ten years?

Go spend about 10 minutes on the Sun Belt board to see views about Liberty's possible addition.

[MplsBison]

Damn secular, humanists....they're ruining this country dammit!!!

Never heard of it before this thread. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism


secular humanism embraces human reason, ethics, social justice and philosophical naturalism, while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience or superstition as the basis of morality and decision making.

It posits that human beings are capable of being ethical and moral without religion or a god. It does not, however, assume that humans are either inherently evil or innately good, nor does it present humans as being superior to nature.

Seems about right to me.

I don't mind that people have different beliefs about what happens after you die, but while you're down here you not try to impose those beliefs on anyone else in any way.

[MplsBison]

I would respond that App fans need to chill out. It is erroneous for App fans to think that the success they maintained at the FCS level will continue at the FBS level. What can App offer a recruit that any other state school cannot offer them? Absolutely nothing, I don't see any recruits picking App over UNC, NC State, Wake, Duke, or East Carolina as far as in-state recruiting. App is a regional school at best, they are not going to get big time recruits from California, Florida, Ohio, nor Texas. However, Liberty is a national school with a reach into every state. Don't think that I am putting Liberty on the same footing with BYU or Notre Dame at this time, but it is not hard to imaging top Christian athletes committing to Liberty. College football experts have said that they would not compare Liberty with Notre Dame, but if BYU can do it why not Liberty. App will never have the reach that Liberty University has in recruiting if and when they move up to FBS, App is just another state school among many others, App just doesn't stand out among their peers, lets face it there no Alabama and not going to be.

It is funny how you secular/humanist think that you have a say in who gets to join your conference(s), you don't! In the end money decides who gets in and who doesn't. Therefore, it doesn't matter how many of you people want us or not, you don't get a say. And as for making enemies with fans in any conference, I don't care. You secular/humanist mistake meekness for weakness which is a mistake on your part.

However, I realize that we are not going to agree on anything. If Liberty is accepted into a FBS conference let's wait twenty years and then compare App to Liberty.

Wouldn't you say that most of the starters on SEC teams had Christian upbringings and would consider themselves Christian Athletes?

[underdawg]

Secular humanism is fouling up football? HA-Ha! Now I know it's a long way off till August. I didn't know Bible thuppin' will be an allowed noise maker at College football games in 2013!xlolx

[asumike83]

I would respond that App fans need to chill out. It is erroneous for App fans to think that the success they maintained at the FCS level will continue at the FBS level. What can App offer a recruit that any other state school cannot offer them? Absolutely nothing, I don't see any recruits picking App over UNC, NC State, Wake, Duke, or East Carolina as far as in-state recruiting. App is a regional school at best, they are not going to get big time recruits from California, Florida, Ohio, nor Texas. However, Liberty is a national school with a reach into every state. Don't think that I am putting Liberty on the same footing with BYU or Notre Dame at this time, but it is not hard to imaging top Christian athletes committing to Liberty. College football experts have said that they would not compare Liberty with Notre Dame, but if BYU can do it why not Liberty. App will never have the reach that Liberty University has in recruiting if and when they move up to FBS, App is just another state school among many others, App just doesn't stand out among their peers, lets face it there no Alabama and not going to be.

How well Appalachian's success translates to the FBS level is yet to be seen but it is also erroneous to imply that Liberty has a better shot at FBS success due to their religious affiliation. If it gave the kind of advantage in recruiting reach that you claim it does, why has that not been the case at the FCS level? There are plenty of high-level FCS caliber Christian athletes out there as well.

If you don't think that a program with 3 national titles that has made the playoffs 20 of the past 27 seasons is more ready to compete at the FBS level than a program who has never made a playoff appearance, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Jumping from the SoCon to FBS will be a transition for App. The transition from the Big South would be significantly tougher. The 2012 season, by and large, was disappointing for Appalachian. Still, the Big South auto-bid winner came to Boone and got pounded by 41 three weeks before beating Liberty by 24.

App recruits heavily in NC, SC, GA and FL. Of course they won't start pulling in big-time recruits from Ohio, Texas and California but if you think a move to the Sun Belt would make Liberty a major player in those states, you will be sorely disappointed. The on-field results and amount of players in the NFL speaks to the kind of talent that has come through the ASU program. When it comes to recruiting pipelines and name recognition on the recruiting trail, App is ahead of Liberty by a sizable margin in the areas they target.

App is as close to being Alabama as Liberty is to being BYU or Notre Dame. That isn't about to change for either school. Christian athletes to go all kinds of universities, not just those affiliated with the church. That is especially true in the South, where the overwhelming majority of the population is Christian.

I have reservations about Liberty but wouldn't throw a fit if they were in the same conference as App. They are geographically convenient and have great facilities. Still, the concerns about how smoothly they could transition are legitimate, IMO.

[forbidden]

How well Appalachian's success translates to the FBS level is yet to be seen but it is also erroneous to imply that Liberty has a better shot at FBS success due to their religious affiliation. If it gave the kind of advantage in recruiting reach that you claim it does, why has that not been the case at the FCS level? There are plenty of high-level FCS caliber Christian athletes out there as well.

If you don't think that a program with 3 national titles that has made the playoffs 20 of the past 27 seasons is more ready to compete at the FBS level than a program who has never made a playoff appearance, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Jumping from the SoCon to FBS will be a transition for App. The transition from the Big South would be significantly tougher. The 2012 season, by and large, was disappointing for Appalachian. Still, the Big South auto-bid winner came to Boone and got pounded by 41 three weeks before beating Liberty by 24.

App recruits heavily in NC, SC, GA and FL. Of course they won't start pulling in big-time recruits from Ohio, Texas and California but if you think a move to the Sun Belt would make Liberty a major player in those states, you will be sorely disappointed. The on-field results and amount of players in the NFL speaks to the kind of talent that has come through the ASU program. When it comes to recruiting pipelines and name recognition on the recruiting trail, App is ahead of Liberty by a sizable margin in the areas they target.

App is as close to being Alabama as Liberty is to being BYU or Notre Dame. That isn't about to change for either school. Christian athletes to go all kinds of universities, not just those affiliated with the church. That is especially true in the South, where the overwhelming majority of the population is Christian.

I have reservations about Liberty but wouldn't throw a fit if they were in the same conference as App. They are geographically convenient and have great facilities. Still, the concerns about how smoothly they could transition are legitimate, IMO.

Appalachian State University NFL Draft Results

18 players drafted out of Appalachian State University


Draft Picks by Year


2011 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 5 156 Mark LeGree FS Seattle Seahawks
NFL 5 163 Daniel Kilgore OL San Francisco 49ers
NFL 6 186 D.J. Smith LB Green Bay Packers

2010 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 3 89 Armanti Edwards QB Carolina Panthers

2008 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 2 58 Dexter Jackson WR Tampa Bay Buccaneers
NFL 6 177 Corey Lynch FS Cincinnati Bengals

2004 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
CFL 1 1 Wayne Smith OL Hamilton Tigercats

2001 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 7 215 Corey Hall DB Atlanta Falcons

1997 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 3 65 Dexter Coakley OLB Dallas Cowboys

1996 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 3 87 Matt Stevens SS Buffalo Bills

1993 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 3 67 Harold Alexander P Atlanta Falcons

1992 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 5 122 Gary Dandridge DB Seattle Seahawks
NFL 7 178 Mike Frier DE Seattle Seahawks

1990 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 5 124 Derrick Graham T Kansas City Chiefs
NFL 7 193 Keith Collins -- San Diego Chargers

1988 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 10 265 Steve Wilkes -- New York Giants

1986 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 2 35 Dino Hackett LB Kansas City Chiefs

1984 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 9 236 Leroy Howell DE Buffalo Bills



Alphabetical Listing

Player Pos Team League Year Round Ovl
Harold Alexander P Atlanta Falcons NFL 1993 3 67
Dexter Coakley OLB Dallas Cowboys NFL 1997 3 65
Keith Collins -- San Diego Chargers NFL 1990 7 193
Gary Dandridge DB Seattle Seahawks NFL 1992 5 122
Armanti Edwards QB Carolina Panthers NFL 2010 3 89
Mike Frier DE Seattle Seahawks NFL 1992 7 178
Derrick Graham T Kansas City Chiefs NFL 1990 5 124
Dino Hackett LB Kansas City Chiefs NFL 1986 2 35
Corey Hall DB Atlanta Falcons NFL 2001 7 215
Leroy Howell DE Buffalo Bills NFL 1984 9 236
Dexter Jackson WR Tampa Bay Buccaneers NFL 2008 2 58
Daniel Kilgore OL San Francisco 49ers NFL 2011 5 163
Mark LeGree FS Seattle Seahawks NFL 2011 5 156
Corey Lynch FS Cincinnati Bengals NFL 2008 6 177
D.J. Smith LB Green Bay Packers NFL 2011 6 186
Wayne Smith OL Hamilton Tigercats CFL 2004 1 1
Matt Stevens SS Buffalo Bills NFL 1996 3 87
Steve Wilkes -- New York Giants NFL 1988 10 265

Liberty University NFL Draft Results

7 players drafted out of Liberty University

Draft Picks by Year


2009 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 7 250 Rashad Jennings RB Jacksonville Jaguars
CFL 2 10 Matt Lambros WR Toronto Argonauts

1990 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 1 21 Eric Green TE Pittsburgh Steelers
NFL 10 271 Donald Smith DB Minnesota Vikings

1989 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 11 292 Richard Shelton DB Denver Broncos

1986 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 4 88 Kelvin Edwards WR New Orleans Saints

1985 NFL CFL

League Round Ovl Player Pos Team
NFL 8 203 Fred Banks WR Cleveland Browns



Alphabetical Listing

Player Pos Team League Year Round Ovl
Fred Banks WR Cleveland Browns NFL 1985 8 203
Kelvin Edwards WR New Orleans Saints NFL 1986 4 88
Eric Green TE Pittsburgh Steelers NFL 1990 1 21
Rashad Jennings RB Jacksonville Jaguars NFL 2009 7 250
Matt Lambros WR Toronto Argonauts CFL 2009 2 10
Richard Shelton DB Denver Broncos NFL 1989 11 292
Donald Smith DB Minnesota Vikings NFL 1990 10 271

ASU has 18 LU has 7
ASU has 7 current LU has 3

Don't make it sound like LU is not capable of putting out some decent or capable NFL type players

[appsfan]

I know this is a simplistic reaction, but those numbers show that App's depth is double that of Liberty?

[appsfan]

I wasn't aware that App had already won a Sun Belt championship, or played in a bowl game. Oh, that's right, you haven't! However, you couldn't tell it by listening to any App fan. What a disgustingly arrogant fan base App has, they haven't played a snap of FBS football and already they believe that they are FBS National Championship contenders. To actually say that "I never see them being a threat in football", what arrogance you displayed. It's not like Liberty hasn't beaten App before because they have, the Flames are 2-7 against App.

The truth is that if Liberty is accepted into the Sun Belt both they and App will be rookie members in a FBS conference and on equal footing. The Michigan win was great but you guys need to cool it with your superior attitude because I have a feeling you're about to get a rude awakening into FBS life.

Furthermore, before any more of you secular/humanist spew anymore of your anti-religious garbage take the time to read the Constitution of the United States of America and specifically the Amendment I [1791]. You secular/humanist need to take a break from spewing on the constitution every chance you get, and those who practice the religious freedoms guaranteed by it.
Actually, App has played in 7 or 8 Bowl games and competed are the FBS level from the split in 78 until the SoCon went FCS in 82. Flamer, get off Saint's case. He is a well reasoned poster and I haven't seen him post anything that should be upsetting from a Liberty perspective...

[forbidden]

I know this is a simplistic reaction, but those numbers show that App's depth is double that of Liberty?

didn't say that it wasn't what I said was that even despite being "Liberty" we have players that can play. Yes, sure LU is going to be up against the wall a little bit more than the avg public school, but the players that went there CHOSE to go there, made the most of there opportunity and made it to next level. All I saying is that even at LU it can be done.

TBH, I would expect that ASU should have more, being that most CHOOSE to not want to have to abide by the rules set forth at LU, which is there choice too.

[Saint3333]

Did anyone else think forbidden was raging App's case until they read the last line or was it just me?

[asumike83]

didn't say that it wasn't what I said was that even despite being "Liberty" we have players that can play. Yes, sure LU is going to be up against the wall a little bit more than the avg public school, but the players that went there CHOSE to go there, made the most of there opportunity and made it to next level. All I saying is that even at LU it can be done.

TBH, I would expect that ASU should have more, being that most CHOOSE to not want to have to abide by the rules set forth at LU, which is there choice too.

I don't disagree with any of that and I didn't mean to imply that Liberty cannot put quality players on the field. My point is that they have not done it as consistently as App, which the numbers bear out.

What you've stated is sort of what I meant. The religious affiliation will hinder recruiting as much as it helps, because the pool of players will shrink when you filter for kids that choose to abide by the Liberty code of conduct. Christian athletes do not always go to schools with religious affiliation and not all Christian athletes choose to live the lifestyle required of a Liberty student.

[forbidden]

I don't disagree with any of that and I didn't mean to imply that Liberty cannot put quality players on the field. My point is that they have not done it as consistently as App, which the numbers bear out.

What you've stated is sort of what I meant. The religious affiliation will hinder recruiting as much as it helps, because the pool of players will shrink when you filter for kids that choose to abide by the Liberty code of conduct. Christian athletes do not always go to schools with religious affiliation and not all Christian athletes choose to live the lifestyle required of a Liberty student.


Tru indeed tru indeed, and I guess the perfect case study would be everybody's favorite Christian athlete Mr. Tebow, lol. I wonder if he would have given LU a second look if offered as opposed to going to UF.

[Saint3333]

I can't tell if he is serious...

[ASUMountaineer]

The wording of your post is ambiguous at best. You claim to be a Christian but you say "your faith" as in mine but not yours. At no time did I claim that Liberty was the next BYU but used them as a model to follow as far as athletics is concerned. I never said anything about App beating ACC teams, I was talking about recruiting. Appalachian has won 71.5% and not 75+% of our meetings, but the sample size is far too small to draw any conclusions. Do you go through life making the assumption that most fans are against Liberty University, where is your evidence? If you say your evidence is based upon this and other forum boards you have a flawed sample size for your data.

However, I do believe that App and Liberty could have a beautiful rivalry.

Wow, either you're an excellent troll or the second coming of Catamountman. Chill out man. xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

I wasn't aware that App had already won a Sun Belt championship, or played in a bowl game. Oh, that's right, you haven't! However, you couldn't tell it by listening to any App fan. What a disgustingly arrogant fan base App has, they haven't played a snap of FBS football and already they believe that they are FBS National Championship contenders. To actually say that "I never see them being a threat in football", what arrogance you displayed. It's not like Liberty hasn't beaten App before because they have, the Flames are 2-7 against App.

The truth is that if Liberty is accepted into the Sun Belt both they and App will be rookie members in a FBS conference and on equal footing. The Michigan win was great but you guys need to cool it with your superior attitude because I have a feeling you're about to get a rude awakening into FBS life.

Furthermore, before any more of you secular/humanist spew anymore of your anti-religious garbage take the time to read the Constitution of the United States of America and specifically the Amendment I [1791]. You secular/humanist need to take a break from spewing on the constitution every chance you get, and those who practice the religious freedoms guaranteed by it.

Wow! Pot, meet kettle.

This is most jumbled garbage I have seen posted in a while. First, no one brought religion into this so why did you? Second, Christ would warn you about making assumptions and judging people--especially in such a mean-spirited way. Third, comments like this is what pushes people away from Christ--not towards him.

Take a break and converse with the Lord, it will be to your benefit.

BTW, I am not a "secular/huminist." Nice attempt at a gross generalization though. xsmhx

[knucklehead]

Yea, I am not sure why some fans on both sides choose to throw rocks. We are all entitled to our own religious beliefs. I respect anyone's right to have theirs and I will practice my faith daily. The reality is that this argument gets out of hand too often and turns into a big mess. I'd rather talk Athletics.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Speaking of pot meeting kettle, why is it the same fans who couldn't handle others talking about their Sun Belt ambitions now feel the need to belittle Liberty's ambition to be a national evangelistic Christian university?

In fact, I think that's the whole reason for the hesitation by the Sun Belt. If Liberty gets into the Sun Belt, they're a flight risk. It has nothing to do with religion.

[MplsBison]

Mormons are evangelistic Christians. BYU is already national.

[knucklehead]

I have to ask this because I have heard it from several posters on different boards. Where do people get the feeling that LU would be a flight risk? Am I missing something. We want in an FBS conference, and may move to a bigger one some day way down the road, but doesn't that apply evenly to any of these move ups?

[walliver]

I have to ask this because I have heard it from several posters on different boards. Where do people get the feeling that LU would be a flight risk? Am I missing something. We want in an FBS conference, and may move to a bigger one some day way down the road, but doesn't that apply evenly to any of these move ups?

I have little doubt that every team in the SunBelt (including GaSt, GaSn, and App) would leave in a heartbeat given the chance.

[LeadBolt]

I have no problem with any of the religious universities, be they Notre Dame, BYU, Liberty, Villanova, etc. What I do have problem with is others trying to impose their values on them. As long as they exercise their freedoms responsively what's the problem?

I personally think Jerry Falwell was a jerk, but what does that have to do with Liberty's athletic programs? I wish them well. IMO, the Roman Catholic church has covered up and not dealt with the problem of homosexual priests molesting young boys, but that should not have anything to do with Notre Dame athletics. I challenge the belief that Mormons are Christians, although they are definitely evangelical and morally upright, but none of this should impact BYU athletics.

We all have differing points of view. Haters are going to hate. We all do things that rub others the wrong way and ask for their tolerance of us while we don't want to tolerate the things they do wrong that rub us the wrong way.

Imho, debate of these things is fine, but athletic issues should be settled by lacing them up and hitting the field. Conference affiliation should be left to the schools involved.

[ASUMountaineer]

Speaking of pot meeting kettle, why is it the same fans who couldn't handle others talking about their Sun Belt ambitions now feel the need to belittle Liberty's ambition to be a national evangelistic Christian university?

In fact, I think that's the whole reason for the hesitation by the Sun Belt. If Liberty gets into the Sun Belt, they're a flight risk. It has nothing to do with religion.

I don't think anyone has belittled Liberty's ambition to be whatever it wants to be. In fact, you'll find many App fans that are fine with Liberty being added to the SBC. Just because most of us would prefer JMU to be added, doesn't mean we are belittling Liberty. The only person that couldn't handle others talking about App State and GSU's Sun Belt ambitions was you.

With the bold part above, I assume your referring to my post. In my post, I did not speak about Liberty's ambitions at all, only the gross generalization of the quoted poster. I am constantly amazed at how you choose to read posts, it's impressive.

[ASUMountaineer]

I have to ask this because I have heard it from several posters on different boards. Where do people get the feeling that LU would be a flight risk? Am I missing something. We want in an FBS conference, and may move to a bigger one some day way down the road, but doesn't that apply evenly to any of these move ups?

I would think so.

[Apphole]

We seem to have mixed emotions on the subject over on SunBeltbbs.com

Yeah. A mixture of anger and disgust at the prospect of adding Falwell U.

[Apphole]

I have little doubt that every team in the SunBelt (including GaSt, GaSn, and App) would leave in a heartbeat given the chance.

Only for the AAC or higher.

[MplsBison]

Only for the AAC or higher.

You wouldn't go to CUSA with Marshall, ODU, JMU?

[IBleedYellow]

I would respond that App fans need to chill out. It is erroneous for App fans to think that the success they maintained at the FCS level will continue at the FBS level. What can App offer a recruit that any other state school cannot offer them? Absolutely nothing, I don't see any recruits picking App over UNC, NC State, Wake, Duke, or East Carolina as far as in-state recruiting. App is a regional school at best, they are not going to get big time recruits from California, Florida, Ohio, nor Texas. However, Liberty is a national school with a reach into every state. Don't think that I am putting Liberty on the same footing with BYU or Notre Dame at this time, but it is not hard to imaging top Christian athletes committing to Liberty. College football experts have said that they would not compare Liberty with Notre Dame, but if BYU can do it why not Liberty. App will never have the reach that Liberty University has in recruiting if and when they move up to FBS, App is just another state school among many others, App just doesn't stand out among their peers, lets face it there no Alabama and not going to be.

It is funny how you secular/humanist think that you have a say in who gets to join your conference(s), you don't! In the end money decides who gets in and who doesn't. Therefore, it doesn't matter how many of you people want us or not, you don't get a say. And as for making enemies with fans in any conference, I don't care. You secular/humanist mistake meekness for weakness which is a mistake on your part.

However, I realize that we are not going to agree on anything. If Liberty is accepted into a FBS conference let's wait twenty years and then compare App to Liberty.

One: GSU fans are the ones that are being downright arrogant over on Sunbeltbbs. Majority of the App fans have been cold headed.

Two: Why does religion have to have any merit in these talks. No one has brought it up until you said secupar/humanists. You are attacking people based on their beliefs. Which is the total opposite of how we are brought up as a Christians. Show love man, not calling people out with hate speech.

Nexus 4

[dgtw]

I personally think Jerry Falwell was a jerk, but what does that have to do with Liberty's athletic programs? I wish them well. IMO, the Roman Catholic church has covered up and not dealt with the problem of homosexual priests molesting young boys, but that should not have anything to do with Notre Dame athletics. I challenge the belief that Mormons are Christians, although they are definitely evangelical and morally upright, but none of this should impact BYU athletics.


Child molesters are not necessarily homosexuals. Many straight people molest children. Molesters are sick, demented perverts.

[LeadBolt]

Child molesters are not necessarily homosexuals. Many straight people molest children. Molesters are sick, demented perverts.

True.

[Sader87]

Child molesters are not necessarily homosexuals. Many straight people molest children. Molesters are sick, demented perverts.

Well I suppose our Patriot League threads that almost always devolve over SAT scores is a step above child molestation....

[seantaylor]

Only the rubes with an agenda want Liberty. There are some real piece of work GSU fans. We have one retard saying every other university but Liberty is educating wrong. Some of these cats have an extra chromosome.

[knucklehead]

Sadly, even though some SBC posters are trashing LU for religious / political reasons constantly, the real problem is an LU poster who is most definitely off the reservation!

[kdinva]

any football news on this thread?

[knucklehead]

We had our spring game on Saturday, and our defense is going to be unreal this year! And All-American CB/KR Kevin Fogg is back and looks great.

[Apphole]

You wouldn't go to CUSA with Marshall, ODU, JMU?

Worse football.

Once that leagues TV contract expires in three years there will be no reason for any SBC member to join.

[Apphole]

I would respond that App fans need to chill out. It is erroneous for App fans to think that the success they maintained at the FCS level will continue at the FBS level. What can App offer a recruit that any other state school cannot offer them? Absolutely nothing, I don't see any recruits picking App over UNC, NC State, Wake, Duke, or East Carolina as far as in-state recruiting. App is a regional school at best, they are not going to get big time recruits from California, Florida, Ohio, nor Texas. However, Liberty is a national school with a reach into every state. Don't think that I am putting Liberty on the same footing with BYU or Notre Dame at this time, but it is not hard to imaging top Christian athletes committing to Liberty. College football experts have said that they would not compare Liberty with Notre Dame, but if BYU can do it why not Liberty. App will never have the reach that Liberty University has in recruiting if and when they move up to FBS, App is just another state school among many others, App just doesn't stand out among their peers, lets face it there no Alabama and not going to be.

It is funny how you secular/humanist think that you have a say in who gets to join your conference(s), you don't! In the end money decides who gets in and who doesn't. Therefore, it doesn't matter how many of you people want us or not, you don't get a say. And as for making enemies with fans in any conference, I don't care. You secular/humanist mistake meekness for weakness which is a mistake on your part.

However, I realize that we are not going to agree on anything. If Liberty is accepted into a FBS conference let's wait twenty years and then compare App to Liberty.

There is nothing meek about the abrasive Falwell U folks. You're just as nutty in your perception of your school as you are about your cult.

God hates fags.

[knucklehead]

And there is the Love! That is Westboro Baptist, and LU has nothing to do with them and is zero like them. They boycotted Jerry's funeral.

[walliver]

Worse football.

Once that leagues TV contract expires in three years there will be no reason for any SBC member to join.

I suspect ULL and Arkansas State would leave for C-USA in a heartbeat, and probably will.

It was only one year ago that App was begging for a C-USA bid because the SunBelt was below them.

[Apphole]

And there is the Love! That is Westboro Baptist, and LU has nothing to do with them and is zero like them. They boycotted Jerry's funeral.

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharaoh's charioteers ... AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."

-Jerry Falwell

http://www.goodasyou.org/westaugfirst.png

[Apphole]

I suspect ULL and Arkansas State would leave for C-USA in a heartbeat, and probably will.

It was only one year ago that App was begging for a C-USA bid because the SunBelt was below them.

6-2 head-to-head last year.

Unlike the University presidents, my priority if good football.

[forbidden]

We had our spring game on Saturday, and our defense is going to be unreal this year! And All-American CB/KR Kevin Fogg is back and looks great.

My take is defense looked that good cuz offense was that bad. Gotta get the OL situation worked out, n I kno more bodies will help that get worked out.
We

Gonna need a bruiser at rb both others r to small to carry load for a full yr. those r coming as we'll

WR looked nice

DL looked to get after it a bit like the rotation
LB make me nervous, could b a a problem letting TE run up seam
DB looked like they r gonna compete every snap

[asumike83]

If App got a call from C-USA, I think they'd be out the door in a heartbeat. Perception is reality and regardless of whether the teams would be any better, C-USA has better name recognition than the Sun Belt. They would also have several easy road trips in Marshall, ODU, UNCC, WKU and MTSU.

I don't see it happening though. App just needs to settle in, win games and establish themselves at the FBS level. I think it is as simple as that. Doesn't matter what the patch on the jersey says unless you win.

[forbidden]

Come on apphole this is not church, or politics lets just TRY n stick to sports, pls

[Apphole]

If App got a call from C-USA, I think they'd be out the door in a heartbeat. Perception is reality and regardless of whether the teams would be any better, C-USA has better name recognition than the Sun Belt. They would also have several easy road trips in Marshall, ODU, UNCC, WKU and MTSU.

I don't see it happening though. App just needs to settle in, win games and establish themselves at the FBS level. I think it is as simple as that. Doesn't matter what the patch on the jersey says unless you win.


I don't know, Mike. That last sentence seems to contradict your first bit there. Fact is, CUSA isn't winning. They have a piss poor out of conference record, they just lost all their decent football programs and they've taken on a bunch of terrible or non-existant football programs (excluding WKU and MTSU). If we're talking about 2008 CUSA with UCF, USF, ECU, Toledo ect, sure that's a better conference.

That patch on their jersey represents a washed-up league. The public perception will catch up in due time.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't know, Mike. That last sentence seems to contradict your first bit there. Fact is, CUSA isn't winning. They have a piss poor out of conference record, they just lost all their decent football programs and they've taken on a bunch of terrible or non-existant football programs...

Gee, where have I heard this before?


I don't know, Mike. That last sentence seems to contradict your first bit there. Fact is, the Sun Belt isn't winning. They have a piss poor out of conference record, they just lost all their decent football programs and they've taken on a bunch of terrible or non-existant football programs...

[asumike83]

I don't know, Mike. That last sentence seems to contradict your first bit there. Fact is, CUSA isn't winning. They have a piss poor out of conference record, they just lost all their decent football programs and they've taken on a bunch of terrible or non-existant football programs (excluding WKU and MTSU). If we're talking about 2008 CUSA with UCF, USF, ECU, Toledo ect, sure that's a better conference.

That patch on their jersey represents a washed-up league. The public perception will catch up in due time.

I just think the perception aspect, along with more programs geographically convenient to App and better basketball, is what would make the league more attractive to our administration. Cobb never made it any secret that C-USA was the first choice. GaSt, GaSo, Troy and USA are all close enough to not be a problem but all except GaSt are farther away than Marshall, UNCC, MTSU and ODU.

If JMU were to join the Sun Belt, that might change some things because they are a perfect rival for App. Convenient travel-wise and very similar athletically and academically.

Either way, whether the team were playing in the Sun Belt, C-USA or any other conference, it all comes back to winning games. That will always be the true measure of success, much more so than the patch on the jersey.

[Apphole]

Gee, where have I heard this before?

The Sun Belt is winning. I'm beginning to see why you bash the conference so much -- you haven't even bothered to look up their record against other FBS conferences over the last few years.

The SBC is also backfilling its vacated spots with great football programs after losing dead weight in FAU and FIU.

The gap is widening. SBC is a better football conference than CUSA.

TV money is why CUSA has the upper hand right now and, unfortunately, that is what the decision makers care about.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Sun Belt is winning. I'm beginning to see why you bash the conference so much -- you haven't even bothered to look up their record against other FBS conferences over the last few years.

The SBC is also backfilling its vacated spots with great football programs after losing dead weight in FAU and FIU.

The gap is widening. SBC is a better football conference than CUSA.

TV money is why CUSA has the upper hand right now and, unfortunately, that is what the decision makers care about.

I thought that's why App was moving to the Sun Belt... xlolx

[Apphole]

I thought that's why App was moving to the Sun Belt... xlolx

That was one of the laundry list of reasons.

How about some constancy in your arguments? You said the SBC wasn't winning. I refuted the fallacy. Now you cherry pick as sentence and try and spin it as a "gotcha."

[Laserlips]

God hates fags.


Ah:

Respectfully, and not intending to misdirect this conversation in the wastelands of arguing about religion, God does not hate "Fags"... God created us all, including Gays/Lesbians/Transgendered, and my faith tells me God is perfect, is not capable of making mistakes, so just because a person's sexuality does not mirror that of your own does not make YOU right, and God wrong. If God made it, it's as intended, and God loves ALL of us, including you. Best Wishes, J.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That was one of the laundry list of reasons.

How about some constancy in your arguments? You said the SBC wasn't winning. I refuted the fallacy. Now you cherry pick as sentence and try and spin it as a "gotcha."

There was so much idiocy in your statement that I just stopped at the most obvious. There was the "backfilling of dead-weight programs" in FAU and FIU (getting you out of the state of Florida and all of those recruits), the great strength of the Sun Belt remaining programs (one, South Alabama, beat FCS cellar-dweller Nicholls in a 9-3 thriller)...

But the TV money thing just stood out. Hope your athletic department doesn't spend all of that five figure sum all in one place. xlolx

[Apphole]

Ah:

Respectfully, and not intending to misdirect this conversation in the wastelands of arguing about religion, God does not hate "Fags"... God created us all, including Gays/Lesbians/Transgendered, and my faith tells me God is perfect, is not capable of making mistakes, so just because a person's sexuality does not mirror that of your own does not make YOU right, and God wrong. If God made it, it's as intended, and God loves ALL of us, including you. Best Wishes, J.

I agree whole heartedly. I support marriage equality and I am not particularly religious.

That is a phrase used by the Westboro Baptist Church. I was likening the rantings of Jerry Falwell to that of Fred Phelps. Not a very hard thing to do.

[ASUMountaineer]

There was so much idiocy in your statement that I just stopped at the most obvious. There was the "backfilling of dead-weight programs" in FAU and FIU (getting you out of the state of Florida and all of those recruits), the great strength of the Sun Belt remaining programs (one, South Alabama, beat FCS cellar-dweller Nicholls in a 9-3 thriller)...

But the TV money thing just stood out. Hope your athletic department doesn't spend all of that five figure sum all in one place. xlolx

Wait, you think App State should not have moved to the SBC? Color me shocked!

[Apphole]

There was so much idiocy in your statement that I just stopped at the most obvious. There was the "backfilling of dead-weight programs" in FAU and FIU (getting you out of the state of Florida and all of those recruits), the great strength of the Sun Belt remaining programs (one, South Alabama, beat FCS cellar-dweller Nicholls in a 9-3 thriller)...

But the TV money thing just stood out. Hope your athletic department doesn't spend all of that five figure sum all in one place. xlolx

If the bottom three performers in the conference aren't dead weight, I'm not sure what is.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/conferences/standings/_/id/37/sun-belt-conference

So you're talking recruiting grounds after talking about TV $. Never mind how good they are at sports xlolx. Any more indirect things you want to throw out there? Can you say "reaching."

If you insist, lets keep talking about how each departing SBC school is indirectly great! How about fan support. Oh looky there. The worst attended schools not names Georgia State are fleeing for CUSA. (again I'm excluding MTSU BC they are a good add for CUSA)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Wait, you think App State should not have moved to the SBC? Color me shocked!

That goes without saying. But would you even go out on the limb you'd rather be in the Sun Belt than CUSA?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If the bottom three performers in the conference aren't dead weight, I'm not sure what is.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/conferences/standings/_/id/37/sun-belt-conference

So you're talking recruiting grounds after talking about TV $. Never mind how good they are at sports xlolx. Any more indirect things you want to throw out there? Can you say "reaching."

If you insist, lets keep talking about how each departing SBC school is indirectly great! How about fan support. Oh looky there. The worst attended schools not names Georgia State are fleeing for CUSA. (again I'm excluding MTSU BC they are a good add for CUSA)

FIU made two bowl games in three years for the Sun Belt, now they're "dead weight"?

[Apphole]

FIU made two bowl games in three years for the Sun Belt, now they're "dead weight"?

Ever since Satterfield left, yes, they're dead weight.

Our new HC is the architect of their success. 3-9 last year now that he's gone.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ever since Satterfield left, yes, they're dead weight.

I'll remember this statement, when App State hits their inevitable 3-9 Sun Belt season.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Simmer down you guys

[Apphole]

I'll remember this statement, when App State hits their inevitable 3-9 Sun Belt season.

It wasn't their transitional/first year in the conference, but go ahead.

[asumike83]

I'll remember this statement, when App State hits their inevitable 3-9 Sun Belt season.

If App goes 3-9, the teams in the Sun Belt are a lot better than you give them credit for.

[ASUMountaineer]

That goes without saying. But would you even go out on the limb you'd rather be in the Sun Belt than CUSA?

I would prefer CUSA to the SBC simply because I live in Charlotte. Other than that, I rank both > SoCon...so, I'm good either way. xnodx

[Saint3333]

Yeah really a no win for LFN.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'll remember this statement, when App State hits their inevitable 3-9 Sun Belt season.

Why are you so invested in App State's move being a failure? Why do you have such angst against schools that decide to move to FBS? As long as it isn't Lehigh, what's it to you?

I have yet to get an answer from you as to 1) why you are so invested in App State's move and 2) why you aren't focusing as much on your own school's athletics?