Liberty in talks with Sun Belt

[Apphole]

Why are you so invested in App State's move being a failure? Why do you have such angst against schools that decide to move to FBS? As long as it isn't Lehigh, what's it to you?

I have yet to get an answer from you as to 1) why you are so invested in App State's move and 2) why you aren't focusing as much on your own school's athletics?

Like the rest of America, he only knows of Lehigh because they beat Duke last year.

[WH49er]

Every single team in the Sun Belt would jump to CUSA without a second thought. That is all that needs to be said.

[MplsBison]

Yeah really a no win for LFN.

He likes the attention though. At least people here read his posts.

[MplsBison]

Every single team in the Sun Belt would jump to CUSA without a second thought. That is all that needs to be said.

I think that's a fair statement. That said, as it currently is projected (with no more SB teams leaving for the CUSA, for the moment) I do believe the SB is pretty darn competitive with the CUSA on the field.

The four SB programs that made bowls last year would be very competitive with the best four CUSA teams still in the conference this year.

While granted that the CUSA has had eight programs in bowls the last two years, ECU, Tulsa, SMU, Central FL and Houston have moved on to the AAC. That leaves Rice, So Miss, Marshall and probably UTEP or LA Tech as the top four in CUSA.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The four SB programs that made bowls last year would be very competitive with the best four CUSA teams left.

One of them, Western Kentucky, is headed to CUSA.

Three of the six schools that made bowls in the last two years, WKU, FIU and MTSU, are headed to CUSA.

Yes, I had to look it up.

[WH49er]

I think that's a fair statement. That said, as it currently is projected (with no more SB teams leaving for the CUSA, for the moment) I do believe the SB is pretty darn competitive with the CUSA on the field.

The four SB programs that made bowls last year would be very competitive with the best four CUSA teams still in the conference.

While granted that the CUSA has had eight programs in bowls the last two years, Tulsa, SMU, Central FL and Houston have moved on to the AAC.



I would say ULL (other than the past 2 years they have been horrible) and Arkansas State (Malzahn is gone) but you won't sell me on ULM. The 4th bowl team you speak of, Western Kentucky is moving to CUSA.


Unless you are in a power conference you are in the same boat, except some get more money.

[MplsBison]

One of them, Western Kentucky, is headed to CUSA.

Three of the six schools that made bowls in the last two years, WKU, FIU and MTSU, are headed to CUSA.

Yes, I had to look it up.

Which is why I specified next year.

WKU leaves in 2014.

[MplsBison]

I would say ULL (other than the past 2 years they have been horrible) and Arkansas State (Malzahn is gone) but you won't sell me on ULM. The 4th bowl team you speak of, Western Kentucky is moving to CUSA.


Unless you are in a power conference you are in the same boat, except some get more money.

WKU is a Sun Belt team in 2013.

Why can't I sell you on ULM? They have an up-and-comer of a head coach, do they not?

[WH49er]

WKU is a Sun Belt team in 2013.

Why can't I sell you on ULM? They have an up-and-comer of a head coach, do they not?





The same guy that led Army to a 5-35 record in his time their? ULM had a solid year last year and need to follow it up with a repeat performance before I change my mind.

[ASUMountaineer]

The same guy that led Army to a 5-35 record in his time their? ULM had a solid year last year and need to follow it up with a repeat performance before I change my mind.

Please note that it's not a fan of a Sun Belt-bound school trumpeting ULM.

[The Moody1]

Every single team in the Sun Belt would jump to CUSA without a second thought. That is all that needs to be said.

From what I am reading it looks like one of your prized recruits is making the jump from UNCC to App.

[Libertine]

The same guy that led Army to a 5-35 record in his time their?

Not necessarily arguing for Berry's merits but lots of people have had bad records at Army. The next two guys after him also won less than ten games in their tenure there and one of those guys was Bobby Ross. The current guy, Ellerson, was an outstanding coach at Cal Poly but went 2-10 last year and has a 35% win record at West Point.

[Apphole]

Every single team in the Sun Belt would jump to CUSA without a second thought. That is all that needs to be said.

Yes. Oversimplifying it and forgetting everything I was just saying would play to your advantage,

How bout this:

The Sun Belt is a better football conference than CUSA. That is all that needs to be said.

[WH49er]

Yes. Oversimplifying it and forgetting everything I was just saying would play to your advantage,

How bout this:

The Sun Belt is a better football conference than CUSA. That is all that needs to be said.


Or you can keep spinning information how FIU and FAU (4 bowl appearances combined) are crap and ULL and ULM are world beaters (3 appearances combined). Your backwoods logic serves you well.


Or you can claim the MTSU and WKU bowl appearances and tell yourself they are staying in the Sun Belt.

[WH49er]

From what I am reading it looks like one of your prized recruits is making the jump from UNCC to App.



Good luck to him. If Charlotte isn't in his heart then he needs to be wherever he wants. Seems like you guys have alot of depth at WR and he has stated that he wanted immediate playing time unless he wants to play a different position.

[SumItUp]

According to Brent Thibodeaux, Liberty is no longer in consideration for a Sun Belt invitation this year. There are multiple tweets that tell the story.


https://twitter.com/BrentThibodeaux (https://twitter.com/BrentThibodeauxhttp://)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

According to Brent Thibodeaux, Liberty is no longer in consideration for a Sun Belt invitation this year. There are multiple tweets that tell the story.


https://twitter.com/BrentThibodeaux (https://twitter.com/BrentThibodeauxhttp://)

Alabama State, huh? Wow.

[asumike83]

Interesting. Looks like after JMU, the top candidate is Jax St. I could definitely live with that.

[344Johnson]

The same guy that led Army to a 5-35 record in his time their? ULM had a solid year last year and need to follow it up with a repeat performance before I change my mind.

Put Nick Saban at Army and they'd still get worked. They are the definition of a bad football program.

[MplsBison]

Interesting. Looks like after JMU, the top candidate is Jax St. I could definitely live with that.

Looks like both Jax and Bama St are ready to go.

Does the Sun Belt want four in Alabama? I guess it's as football crazy as any state in the nation (per capita, anyway).

[WH49er]

Put Nick Saban at Army and they'd still get worked. They are the definition of a bad football program.



Worked? Like their players get a summer job at a local dealership worked?


Like I said I'll buy into the guy when puts together back to back winning seasons.

[dgtw]

Interesting. Looks like after JMU, the top candidate is Jax St. I could definitely live with that.

So would I!!!!!!

I don't know about Alabama St. They have had some serious NCAA issues in recent years and they just fired their AD last fall. hey do have a new stadium that I ave heard is very nice. I'll be there in August to check it out.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So after Georgia State, Georgia Southern and App State join the Sun Belt, they either need to put in the Plan B that Troy has been opposing bitterly for almost a decade (Jacksonville State) or a HBCU which a completely unproven plan of action for FBS football in the same state as Troy (Alabama State).

This sure sounds like it's working out well for the Sun Belt.... xrolleyesx

I wonder what Troy fans are saying right now. Probably something along the lines of, "Take us now, C-USA! Please! We'll double, no, triple the entrance fee!"

[ThompsonThe]

According to Brent Thibodeaux, Liberty is no longer in consideration for a Sun Belt invitation this year. There are multiple tweets that tell the story.


https://twitter.com/BrentThibodeaux (https://twitter.com/BrentThibodeauxhttp://)

Certainly cannot say that it is a shame. Seems that every time someone starts talking to some Liberty posters they bring up religion. Then they accuse the other person of doing it. What are they doing to these people in Lynchburg, Virginia, making them into even more religious freaks? It's like they are automatons. Believing a bunch of disgusting thoughts on religion because they are taught that way. Their religious cult is not a religion of peace, love and harmony. There is a hatred they have for anyone that has a different religious belief. How does it benefit them to be so condescending of other people's beliefs when they expect other people to accept them?

[knucklehead]

Complete lack of any real information.

[dgtw]

So after Georgia State, Georgia Southern and App State join the Sun Belt, they either need to put in the Plan B that Troy has been opposing bitterly for almost a decade (Jacksonville State) or a HBCU which a completely unproven plan of action for FBS football in the same state as Troy (Alabama State).

This sure sounds like it's working out well for the Sun Belt.... xrolleyesx

I wonder what Troy fans are saying right now. Probably something along the lines of, "Take us now, C-USA! Please! We'll double, no, triple the entrance fee!"

Jax State and Troy State were bitter rivals back in their DII days. I think Troy's wanting to keep out Jax Sate is more to keeping an old rival down rather than not wanting another in state team.

At least the theophobes can sleep safely with Liberty staying in FCS.

[asumike83]

So after Georgia State, Georgia Southern and App State join the Sun Belt, they either need to put in the Plan B that Troy has been opposing bitterly for almost a decade (Jacksonville State) or a HBCU which a completely unproven plan of action for FBS football in the same state as Troy (Alabama State).

This sure sounds like it's working out well for the Sun Belt.... xrolleyesx

I wonder what Troy fans are saying right now. Probably something along the lines of, "Take us now, C-USA! Please! We'll double, no, triple the entrance fee!"

Troy may not want them but Jax State would be a solid add overall. Typically top 10 in FCS attendance, fits geographically with Troy, USA, GaSt, GaSo and App to make a nice Eastern division.

[jmufan999]

Certainly cannot say that it is a shame. Seems that every time someone starts talking to some Liberty posters they bring up religion. Then they accuse the other person of doing it.

I hate to say it, but I kind of agree. It does seem like Liberty fans bring up religion more than their detractors. It's not much more, but it's at least slightly more on this board, anyway.

I personally would like to join a conference with Liberty, but the religion "thing" derailing every argument would get old.

[MplsBison]

Troy may not want them but Jax State would be a solid add overall. Typically top 10 in FCS attendance, fits geographically with Troy, USA, GaSt, GaSo and App to make a nice Eastern division.

Can't argue with that! Just more LFN trolling...

[Saint3333]

JSU is historically a pretty good baseball program.

Still prefer JMU, but they appear to be holding out past June 1.

[ThompsonThe]

Troy may not want them but Jax State would be a solid add overall. Typically top 10 in FCS attendance, fits geographically with Troy, USA, GaSt, GaSo and App to make a nice Eastern division.

Or the Sun Belt could go with Missouri State.

Or several other candidates.

[RadioFan]

Missouri State or JMU would be ideal.


Missouri State has a good basketball and baseball program. The Sun Belt has a pretty good baseball league and need to improve current basketball to maintain a 2 bid league. Missouri State could get an FBS team fielded in short time. JMU is more ready on the football side. Probably evenish in Basketball and Baseball.

Expansion from the FCS:

JMU is clearly first choice
Missouri State is a very good second choice
Jax State is third. Not a horrible choice, but why add a third Alabama team?
Everything else...

[MarkCCU]

Can Liberty be competitive against App State, West. Kentucky, Troy, etc..? I'm not sure.

[forbidden]

Why couldn't they hv been, and FYI u said competitive not win, the bottom teams in the conf had 3 wins , s it's not like the games could not hv been somewhat competitive. IMHO

[MarkCCU]

Why couldn't they hv been, and FYI u said competitive not win, the bottom teams in the conf had 3 wins , s it's not like the games could not hv been somewhat competitive. IMHO

Will you translate this into the Kings English and resubmit?

Thanks.

[AshevilleApp2]

Will you translate this into the Kings English and resubmit?

Thanks.

OMG! LOL!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ever think that teams are staying away from the Sun Belt because it might not be around in five years?

[MarkCCU]

OMG! LOL!

Why aren't you ROFLing?

[ASUMountaineer]

So after Georgia State, Georgia Southern and App State join the Sun Belt, they either need to put in the Plan B that Troy has been opposing bitterly for almost a decade (Jacksonville State) or a HBCU which a completely unproven plan of action for FBS football in the same state as Troy (Alabama State).

This sure sounds like it's working out well for the Sun Belt.... xrolleyesx

I wonder what Troy fans are saying right now. Probably something along the lines of, "Take us now, C-USA! Please! We'll double, no, triple the entrance fee!"

How is Lehigh's baseball team doing this season? What about the softball team? xrolleyesx The trolling continues...

[AshevilleApp2]

Why aren't you ROFLing?

xconfusedx I'll have to look that one up.

[Apphole]

Ever think that teams are staying away from the Sun Belt because it might not be around in five years?

What teams are staying away from the SunBelt?

Last I checked, 4 schools just enthusiastically jumped on board and several schools are fighting for the final spot.

[PaladinFan]

Ever think that teams are staying away from the Sun Belt because it might not be around in five years?

I don't think that matters. Schools are moving into the Sunbelt because they are desperate to be FBS. Imagine the most unhealthy FBS conference in the history of conferences, and these schools would still be clamoring to move there just because they are there, and not here.

The decision is to move up - it is quite apparent they are not discriminating in who takes them. It appears to be one of those "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" philosophies. There is no question the SunBelt is not a healthy conference. Were it healthy, programs would not constantly be on the first train out of Dodge and being replaced with schools from a lower division. Still, I do not get the impression that these universities care about things like that at this point. Maybe in five years, maybe never.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think that matters. Schools are moving into the Sunbelt because they are desperate to be FBS. Imagine the most unhealthy FBS conference in the history of conferences, and these schools would still be clamoring to move there just because they are there, and not here.

The decision is to move up - it is quite apparent they are not discriminating in who takes them. It appears to be one of those "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" philosophies. There is no question the SunBelt is not a healthy conference. Were it healthy, programs would not constantly be on the first train out of Dodge and being replaced with schools from a lower division. Still, I do not get the impression that these universities care about things like that at this point. Maybe in five years, maybe never.

In all seriousness, what seems to be happening to the Sun Belt is what happened to the conference formerly known as the Big East/AAC: they can't expand without some member that will divide their membership. Liberty, for all its merits, divides the membership. So would Jacksonville State and/or Alabama State, which could very well force Troy out the door. Benson is even lucky that the membership was amenable to accept New Mexico State and Idaho (football-only), a decision that only was reached after rejecting them several times.

Also, whatever happens, Benson's public flirting with Liberty in order to force JMU to commit has backfired spectacularly. That seems without question. It seems he "wasn't serious", pissing of Liberty and further alienating JMU.

[ASUMountaineer]

I don't think that matters. Schools are moving into the Sunbelt because they are desperate to be FBS. Imagine the most unhealthy FBS conference in the history of conferences, and these schools would still be clamoring to move there just because they are there, and not here.

The decision is to move up - it is quite apparent they are not discriminating in who takes them. It appears to be one of those "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" philosophies. There is no question the SunBelt is not a healthy conference. Were it healthy, programs would not constantly be on the first train out of Dodge and being replaced with schools from a lower division. Still, I do not get the impression that these universities care about things like that at this point. Maybe in five years, maybe never.

1) It has been stated by Charlie Cobb that Appalachian had an offer last year to join a FBS conference. Most suspect it was the WAC, so clearly there is/was some discrimination.

2) Your point about a healthy conference not having schools jump at the chance to leave, and being replaced from schools from a lower division, could be applied to CUSA, and potentially even the SoCon. Are they unhealthy too?

3) There are many that believe App State's admin was FBS-or-bust, but that was not the overwhelming perception by App State fans even as late as last season. It may work well for LFN's trolling, and those that agree with him, but it's not reality.

[ASUMountaineer]

In all seriousness, what seems to be happening to the Sun Belt is what happened to the conference formerly known as the Big East/AAC: they can't expand without some member that will divide their membership. Liberty, for all its merits, divides the membership. So would Jacksonville State and/or Alabama State, which could very well force Troy out the door. Benson is even lucky that the membership was amenable to accept New Mexico State and Idaho (football-only), a decision that only was reached after rejecting them several times.

Also, whatever happens, Benson's public flirting with Liberty in order to force JMU to commit has backfired spectacularly. That seems without question. It seems he "wasn't serious", pissing of Liberty and further alienating JMU.

This would be difficult. Currently, Troy's options would be CUSA (highly unlikely), independent (highly unlikely), or drop to FCS (zero chance).

If Benson was "publicly flirting" with Liberty to force JMU to commit, it was a stupid play to begin with. Only the biggest Liberty fans could believe that the Sun Belt membership--especially ULL and stAte--would be on board with that.

Based on the current state of college football, App State felt that it was their best interest to join the Sun Belt than to remain in the SoCon. Time will tell if it was the right decision, but that's the case with almost any decision. I don't know why you take such issue with it.

[Saint3333]

Can anyone name one current or former Sun Belt member east of San Antonio that isn't in a better place now than when they joined the Sun Belt?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Can anyone name one current or former Sun Belt member east of San Antonio that isn't in a better place now than when they joined the Sun Belt?

Haha. It's easier to list the ones that are better off. Troy and Arkansas State are better off. Can't think of any others.

[asumike83]

Haha. It's easier to list the ones that are better off. Troy and Arkansas State are better off. Can't think of any others.

WKU, MTSU, FIU, FAU, Troy, ULL and Arkansas State are all better off now than when joined the Sun Belt.

[MplsBison]

Ever think that teams are staying away from the Sun Belt because it might not be around in five years?

Nope, that's just your fantasy.

The new deal guarantees the Sun Belt will be around for at least the 12 years of the contract. Why? Because if and as more teams leave for the other group of five's - they'll just keep plucking the creme from your beloved FCS.

[PaladinFan]

1) It has been stated by Charlie Cobb that Appalachian had an offer last year to join a FBS conference. Most suspect it was the WAC, so clearly there is/was some discrimination.

2) Your point about a healthy conference not having schools jump at the chance to leave, and being replaced from schools from a lower division, could be applied to CUSA, and potentially even the SoCon. Are they unhealthy too?

3) There are many that believe App State's admin was FBS-or-bust, but that was not the overwhelming perception by App State fans even as late as last season. It may work well for LFN's trolling, and those that agree with him, but it's not reality.

Alright, then, so we can agree there was some discrimination on App's behalf in not agreeing to join an FBS conference that does not even carry football anymore. I think that's a given.

Schools leaving a conference is part of life. I think you would be hard pressed to disagree with the notion that the SunBelt has been a veritable revolving door of programs. Again, my point is that such things do not matter to App State. They just want to be there.

I also do not think that the same analogy applies to the SoCon. Since 1976 (the year the SunBelt started), the SoCon has lost what, three or four programs - Marshall, VMI, ETSU, and ECU? Since that same time the SunBelt has lost close to 20 programs.

I will say that argument really depends on what happens with the SoCon. If the SoCon opens the door to universities not currently playing at a high level of FCS football, I'd agree with you. If, however, the SoCon manages to find a way to link up with the Virginia CAA schools, well, I imagine most folks would prefer that to even having App/GSU in the conference at all.

[MplsBison]

Can anyone name one current or former Sun Belt member east of San Antonio that isn't in a better place now than when they joined the Sun Belt?

Every football program that is still playing the sport and has moved on from the Sun Belt to another FBS conference is unquestionably better off than when it started in the Sun Belt.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/12a30358e86c5b159a85102fcdeaba39.png

South Florida, UAB, UCF, LA Tech, FIU, FAU, North TX, Utah St. Even Old Dominion previously played in the Sun Belt, took a break from football and is now back in FBS and in a better place.

Only a liar and a troll would claim otherwise.

[PaladinFan]

WKU, MTSU, FIU, FAU, Troy, ULL and Arkansas State are all better off now than when joined the Sun Belt.

For the record, its taken schools like ULL 20 years to have what can remotely be considered "successful" seasons in football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Nope, that's just your fantasy.

The new deal guarantees the Sun Belt will be around for at least the 12 years of the contract. Why? Because if and as more teams leave for the other group of five's - they'll just keep plucking the creme from your beloved FCS.

Alabama State is the cream of FCS. O-kay then.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Every football program that is still playing the sport and has moved on from the Sun Belt to another FBS conference is unquestionably better off than when it started in the Sun Belt.

Gotcha. So "leaving the Sun Belt" is the benchmark for success.

[MplsBison]

Gotcha. So "leaving the Sun Belt" is the benchmark for success.

No. Try again.

[MplsBison]

Alabama State is the cream of FCS. O-kay then.

App St, GA Southern, JMU.

But you knew that.

[MplsBison]

For the record, its taken schools like ULL 20 years to have what can remotely be considered "successful" seasons in football.

And of course, that doesn't matter. "Grasping at straws" they call that.

Why do you care? You're satisfied to keep playing Citidel in the Southern Conference, whatever division that may end up being.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

App St, GA Southern, JMU.

But you knew that.

JMU has an open invite to the Sun Belt, but is "waiting to see what happens" rather than jump onto the Sun Belt. Wisely, it seems.

Hey, where's Georgia State in your list? They're not the "cream of FCS"? xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Every football program that is still playing the sport and has moved on from the Sun Belt to another FBS conference is unquestionably better off than when it started in the Sun Belt.


Gotcha. So "leaving the Sun Belt" is the benchmark for success.


No. Try again.

You appear to say otherwise.

[asumike83]

For the record, its taken schools like ULL 20 years to have what can remotely be considered "successful" seasons in football.

ULL football hasn't been in the Sun Belt for 20 years, they were an independent until 2001. Being a successful football program without a conference is rarely a recipe for success at any level.

[MplsBison]

JMU has an open invite to the Sun Belt, but is "waiting to see what happens" rather than jump onto the Sun Belt. Wisely, it seems.

Hey, where's Georgia State in your list? They're not the "cream of FCS"? xlolx

GA St is still in the Sun Belt.

[MplsBison]

You appear to say otherwise.

Not my problem that you can't follow the clear line of logic that was specified prior to the posts you just quoted.

Doesn't surprise me that you then draw your own conclusions which are tangential to the discussion. But in your typical way, they speciously appear to be in-line with it. Specious being the oh so key word.

[walliver]

Every football program that is still playing the sport and has moved on from the Sun Belt to another FBS conference is unquestionably better off than when it started in the Sun Belt.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/12a30358e86c5b159a85102fcdeaba39.png

South Florida, UAB, UCF, LA Tech, FIU, FAU, North TX, Utah St. Even Old Dominion previously played in the Sun Belt, took a break from football and is now back in FBS and in a better place.

Only a liar and a troll would claim otherwise.

1) It is interesting that you phrase the question in such a way as to exclude current PFL member Jacksonville as well as Lamar.
2) Everybody who has left the SunBelt is in a better place by leaving. I'm not sure the new C-USA is actually better than the old SunBelt, but will admit that the new C-USA is better than the new SunBelt, but not by much, and almost all of the difference is reputation not performance.

[MplsBison]

1) It is interesting that you phrase the question in such a way as to exclude current PFL member Jacksonville as well as Lamar.
2) Everybody who has left the SunBelt is in a better place by leaving. I'm not sure the new C-USA is actually better than the old SunBelt, but will admit that the new C-USA is better than the new SunBelt, but not by much, and almost all of the difference is reputation not performance.

1) because in such cases (Jacksonville, Lamar, Old Dominion) there was obviously an institutional decision to de-emphasize the sport or end it completely. That has nothing to do with the Sun Belt.

2) sure

[ASUMountaineer]

Alright, then, so we can agree there was some discrimination on App's behalf in not agreeing to join an FBS conference that does not even carry football anymore. I think that's a given. I think so too, but included it for clarity.


Schools leaving a conference is part of life. I think you would be hard pressed to disagree with the notion that the SunBelt has been a veritable revolving door of programs. Again, my point is that such things do not matter to App State. They just want to be there. So has the Big East and CUSA. App State does want to be in the SBC, so...


I also do not think that the same analogy applies to the SoCon. Since 1976 (the year the SunBelt started), the SoCon has lost what, three or four programs - Marshall, VMI, ETSU, and ECU? Since that same time the SunBelt has lost close to 20 programs. That was not your original point, if it was you should have said so. You stated that the SBC is an unhealthy conference because it is losing member and backfilling with schools from a lower division. That's not the same thing as what you said in this post. CUSA has done exactly what the SBC has done, is it unhealthy? The SoCon has taken schools that don't compete in football, and may be doing so again. I'm not the one saying that the SBC, CUSA, or SoCon is unhealthy, but by your standards the SoCon very well could be.


I will say that argument really depends on what happens with the SoCon. If the SoCon opens the door to universities not currently playing at a high level of FCS football, I'd agree with you. If, however, the SoCon manages to find a way to link up with the Virginia CAA schools, well, I imagine most folks would prefer that to even having App/GSU in the conference at all. Of course they would because App State and GSU were not the norm in the current configuration of the SoCon. That is not a bad thing, it's just the way it is/was. But there's really nothing to agree with...again, I'm not the one stating that conferences are unhealthy. According to your new standards if the SoCon invites ETSU, Mercer/KSU would it then be unhealthy?

[asumike83]

I also do not think that the same analogy applies to the SoCon. Since 1976 (the year the SunBelt started), the SoCon has lost what, three or four programs - Marshall, VMI, ETSU, and ECU? Since that same time the SunBelt has lost close to 20 programs.

Yes, but college athletics have changed a lot since the 70's. The SoCon, since Richmond/W&M left in the mid 70's, have only lost the four programs you mentioned.

However, in the last year, they have lost three (GSU, ASU, CofC) and are likely to lose a fourth very shortly in Davidson. That is as much turnover in 12 months as the conference has seen in 35 years. I'd think Elon is also a possible flight risk to the CAA, depending on how the next few months go. It starts at the top with realignment and whether we like or not, nearly every DI conference aside from the SEC and Big 10 have seen significant turnover. As it trickles down, there will be a lot of revolving doors out there.

[MplsBison]

The PAC also hasn't seen significant turnover....but that's the west. Really anything in the mountain and pacific time zones doesn't count for conference realignment.

You have the PAC, the best you can do if your school's out there, then the MWC the next best....then that's it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

CUSA has done exactly what the SBC has done, is it unhealthy?

Yes. It is a shell of what it once was basketball-wise, the only property TV people care about with that league.

UAB is in deep trouble financially. Marshall is also still a mess and they're going to be staring down deep higher education cuts in the state. It has always been a far-flung, expensive league to be in, and without good hoops it has little overall national value.

CUSA is desperately hoping that Western Kentucky can regain some tiny measure of its hoops success pre-Division I split, Middle Tennessee State and UNC-Charlotte do well in hoops, and that ODU's hoops program more resembles the 2011-2012 team rather than the 2012-2013 squad. If they do that, they will probably limp along. If they don't...

[MplsBison]

That's what great about an internet message board. You can throw out wild, nonsensical scenarios based on whims of your imagination - and as long as they read coherent and seem like they could be true, people assume you must know something.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That's what great about an internet message board. You can throw out wild, nonsensical scenarios based on whims of your imagination - and as long as they read coherent and seem like they could be true, people assume you must know something.

Thanks for giving me yet another quotable for my signature.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com
http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com

[MplsBison]

It should be your signature, that's exactly your MO.

[Saint3333]

Gotcha. So "leaving the Sun Belt" is the benchmark for success.

My point was the Sun Belt is a means to improve your program. Name one program that is worse today.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My point was the Sun Belt is a means to improve your program. Name one program that is worse today.

Easy. ULM.

[MplsBison]

Saint, when he resorts to such an obviously lie, you know he's just trying to provoke you - just ignore him. Unless you find entertainment in this, then by all means.

[ASUMountaineer]

Yes. It is a shell of what it once was basketball-wise, the only property TV people care about with that league.

UAB is in deep trouble financially. Marshall is also still a mess and they're going to be staring down deep higher education cuts in the state. It has always been a far-flung, expensive league to be in, and without good hoops it has little overall national value.

CUSA is desperately hoping that Western Kentucky can regain some tiny measure of its hoops success pre-Division I split, Middle Tennessee State and UNC-Charlotte do well in hoops, and that ODU's hoops program more resembles the 2011-2012 team rather than the 2012-2013 squad. If they do that, they will probably limp along. If they don't...

Cool story. So, which conferences in D-I are healthy?

Why are you so invested in App State's move to FBS? How are Lehigh's baseball and softball teams doing?

[PAllen]

Cool story. So, which conferences in D-I are healthy?

Why are you so invested in App State's move to FBS? How are Lehigh's baseball and softball teams doing?

Don't know, but the lacrosse team is doing pretty well. :D

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Cool story. So, which conferences in D-I are healthy?

The Big 10, Big XII, Pac 12, and SEC, who are dancing on the moneybags that consist of 85% of the new revenue from the plus-one playoff plus their lucrative media deals, are pretty stable.

Also, the Ivy League.

PS. Baseball and softball are OK, but it's men's lacrosse that currently is doing very well this spring. Also, softball coach Fran Troyan just got his 400th victory.

[knucklehead]

That's what great about an internet message board. You can throw out wild, nonsensical scenarios based on whims of your imagination - and as long as they read coherent and seem like they could be true, people assume you must know something. Exactly why I refuse to believe ANY rumor or speculation on any side posted on a board, twitter, blog, etc without a source. This is out of hand. Sunbelt is done expanding, they want 2 more, they want 4 more, Liberty is not a serious candidate, LU and JMU are the top choices, JMU isn't interested, Liberty is the top choice, LU at the top is far far far from true, JMU is out of the picture, SBC will wait for JMU, Liberty is no longer in consideration. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. I choose to wait this out until someone officially gets a bid and refuse to believe any of it any more.

[PaladinFan]

My point was the Sun Belt is a means to improve your program. Name one program that is worse today.

Again, this argument is simply subjective. Furman's program is not as strong as it was six or seven years ago. That's not anyone's fault other than Furman.

It's one thing to make an argument based on a fact, and another to subjectively state something that has no possibility of being confirmed. For instance, Western Kentucky was a national champion in 2002. They moved to the SunBelt and went 9-15 over three years.

Was a 2-10 Western Kentucky team in 2008 subjectively "improved" from the 12-3 team that won the IAA national title five years earlier? Were they improved just because they were in the SunBelt? If those two teams met, who would win in a hypothetical game? I mean, who can answer that?

[SU_IT_able]

My point was the Sun Belt is a means to improve your program. Name one program that is worse today.

You'd be hard pressed to find any UAB fans who can remember the early 80's who would say they are better off today. Their basketball team is a shadow of its former self. Their football team is largely ignored in Birmingham, which is probably a good thing.

[MplsBison]

Exactly why I refuse to believe ANY rumor or speculation on any side posted on a board, twitter, blog, etc without a source. This is out of hand. Sunbelt is done expanding, they want 2 more, they want 4 more, Liberty is not a serious candidate, LU and JMU are the top choices, JMU isn't interested, Liberty is the top choice, LU at the top is far far far from true, JMU is out of the picture, SBC will wait for JMU, Liberty is no longer in consideration. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. I choose to wait this out until someone officially gets a bid and refuse to believe any of it any more.

Understood.

Keep in mind for what it's worth, this stuff is actually entertaining to some of us. Speculating on conference realignment, that is. I have no idea why...but it is. For me, anyway.

[knucklehead]

what is this thread about again. :D xnonox

[MplsBison]

Again, this argument is simply subjective. Furman's program is not as strong as it was six or seven years ago. That's not anyone's fault other than Furman.

It's one thing to make an argument based on a fact, and another to subjectively state something that has no possibility of being confirmed. For instance, Western Kentucky was a national champion in 2002. They moved to the SunBelt and went 9-15 over three years.

Was a 2-10 Western Kentucky team in 2008 subjectively "improved" from the 12-3 team that won the IAA national title five years earlier? Were they improved just because they were in the SunBelt? If those two teams met, who would win in a hypothetical game? I mean, who can answer that?

Once again, someone who has lost sight of just how insignificant...how little...the actual performance on the field matters - in today's environment.

[ASUMountaineer]

The Big 10, Big XII, Pac 12, and SEC, who are dancing on the moneybags that consist of 85% of the new revenue from the plus-one playoff plus their lucrative media deals, are pretty stable.

Also, the Ivy League.

PS. Baseball and softball are OK, but it's men's lacrosse that currently is doing very well this spring. Also, softball coach Fran Troyan just got his 400th victory.

So, all D-I conferences that you did not mention are unhealthy? If so, then what's the problem with App State changing from one unhealthy conference to another?

Glad that you finally answered that question, and to know that you actually do follow some Lehigh sports.

[BEAR]

34 pages... xgiveadamnx

[WH49er]

You'd be hard pressed to find any UAB fans who can remember the early 80's who would say they are better off today. Their basketball team is a shadow of its former self. Their football team is largely ignored in Birmingham, which is probably a good thing.


Not a very good example because UA BOT has been holding them back from a new stadium for quiet sometime. Playing in Legion Field for significant amount of time is going to hurt any program.

[Saint3333]

Easy. ULM.

ULM's claim to fame was three playoff appearances and a 1987 1AA championship.

They were a middle of the road Southland school. Today they are a middle of the road Sun Belt school.

Last year they finished 8-4, beating Arkansas, lost by 3 to Auburn, and by 5 to Baylor.

How are they worse, I'm missing something.

[SU_IT_able]

Not a very good example because UA BOT has been holding them back from a new stadium for quiet sometime. Playing in Legion Field for significant amount of time is going to hurt any program.

I replied to Saint's challenge to 'Name one program (that spent time in the Sunbelt) that is worse today.' Sure, your response regarding UAB illustrates the fact that conference affiliation is only one variable in the equation that determines the success of a particular school's athletic program. And this was really the principle I was trying to illumine with the UAB example. Not throwing rocks at UAB or the Sunbelt by any means.

[asumike83]

I replied to Saint's challenge to 'Name one program (that spent time in the Sunbelt) that is worse today.' Sure, your response regarding UAB illustrates the fact that conference affiliation is only one variable in the equation that determines the success of a particular school's athletic program. And this was really the principle I was trying to illumine with the UAB example. Not throwing rocks at UAB or the Sunbelt by any means.

Valid point but UAB has never been in the Sun Belt for football. There other sports used to be there but football was independent at the DIII, IAA and IA levels before joining C-USA.

[Cocky]

So after Georgia State, Georgia Southern and App State join the Sun Belt, they either need to put in the Plan B that Troy has been opposing bitterly for almost a decade (Jacksonville State) or a HBCU which a completely unproven plan of action for FBS football in the same state as Troy (Alabama State).

This sure sounds like it's working out well for the Sun Belt.... xrolleyesx

I wonder what Troy fans are saying right now. Probably something along the lines of, "Take us now, C-USA! Please! We'll double, no, triple the entrance fee!"

Are you even familiar with Troy? Theyre in the middle of nowhere with poor or worse academics. The Troy fans are starting to realize they are SB lifers with ULM.

[SU_IT_able]

Valid point but UAB has never been in the Sun Belt for football. There other sports used to be there but football was independent at the DIII, IAA and IA levels before joining C-USA.

Also true. However, I didn't read into Saint's post that his intended reference was only to FB. In retrospect, I may have been mistaken.

[DuaneAllmanLives]

Is there any hard evidence that Liberty is not going to the Sun Belt, or is this an attempt to keep Liberty people off the Sun Belt boards? Not that it matters to me either way.

[knucklehead]

I don't think it's a plot. I think it's a case of everyone's sources not knowing as much as they think they know. I do not think LU is out of the picture.

[DuaneAllmanLives]

I don't think it's a plot. I think it's a case of everyone's sources not knowing as much as they think they know. I do not think LU is out of the picture.

Neither do I, I won't believe we're out of it until I hear someone with authority on the subject says that Liberty is not going to the Sun Belt, such as Barber or Benson.

[ThompsonThe]

Do not think Liberty has ever been in discussions for the Sun Belt.
At the last Sun Belt meeting not one school would nominate them.
If no school is willing to nominate Liberty how in heck would they ever get enough votes to get in the SB?
Face it Liberty, the SB never wanted you. You wanted the Sun Belt.

[ThompsonThe]

Yeah, and when the Sun Belt Commissioner Benson is trying to be nice and not out and out embarrass Liberty,
by saying stories about the Sun Belt being interested at all in LU, was far, far, far, far from being the truth.
Guess he should have just said hell no.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Interesting that Benson would publicly flirt with Liberty and have a hypothetical map made up with them and JMU if no Sun Belt member wanted them...

[ThompsonThe]

A map can be done in 5 seconds. At the most seems that Benson was using Liberty to see if JMU would go ahead and make a move before moving
on to their next school.

[PaladinFan]

ULM's claim to fame was three playoff appearances and a 1987 1AA championship.

They were a middle of the road Southland school. Today they are a middle of the road Sun Belt school.

Last year they finished 8-4, beating Arkansas, lost by 3 to Auburn, and by 5 to Baylor.

How are they worse, I'm missing something.

ULM moved to I-A in 1994. Since 1994, their record has been over .500 just once - this past season.

So, yes, they had an 8 win season last year. That was their first winning season in nearly 20 years.

[danefan]

All Benson ever said was that Liberty was being considered.

I'm sure he had the responsibility as Commissioner, once approached by Liberty, to pass that along to the league Presidents for consideration.

I think they probably did consider Liberty but decided it wasn't a good fit. Liberty is going to have that issue in every league their in.

[knucklehead]

We have Zero "issues" in the Big South"

[knucklehead]

Do not think Liberty has ever been in discussions for the Sun Belt.
At the last Sun Belt meeting not one school would nominate them.
If no school is willing to nominate Liberty how in heck would they ever get enough votes to get in the SB?
Face it Liberty, the SB never wanted you. You wanted the Sun Belt.

Based on what FACTS? I've only seen rumor and innuendo.

[ASUMountaineer]

Interesting that Benson would publicly flirt with Liberty and have a hypothetical map made up with them and JMU if no Sun Belt member wanted them...

Did FlameNation, or whatever the blog is called, ever release more documents than just the map? They kept saying that they had much more, but I haven't seen it yet.

[danefan]

We have Zero "issues" in the Big South"

I should have said "Liberty is going to have that issue in every league they want to be in."