What will UD's AD Say when...

[PAllen]

I think we can all agree that the recent statement regarding ASU and GSU moving to the SunBelt was not in the best of form. I believe he is correct coming from an ACC viewpoint, that there is little to no difference between the top of FCS and the SunBelt. That is about the end of it though. What will he say when Temple, Rutgers, and Navy start playing games AT Appalachian State and Georgia Southern (and heaven forbid JMU or Liberty)? That is the key difference. While the level of play in the Sunbelt is not measurably better than a top FCS conference, there is the now expectation of home and home agreements with what the old timers at UD see as their long lost rivals. Add the remote possibility of making a run at a major bowl game, and the associated national coverage that comes with such a chance, and it seems like a good move for large (in FCS terms) state schools that can make it work. I still don't understand how Liberty has all this money to throw around, but i don't have to. If they can make it work, good for them.

[RadioFan]

If JMU does join the SunBelt or MAC then his seat at UDel will be very hot.

[superman7515]

If JMU does join the SunBelt or MAC then his seat at UDel will be very hot.

No it won't. The fans may or may not like him worth a damn, but the Pres & BOT don't care about football, so he'll be fine.

[RadioFan]

Fair enough.

[DFW HOYA]

What will he say when Temple, Rutgers, and Navy start playing games AT Appalachian State and Georgia Southern (and heaven forbid JMU or Liberty)? That is the key difference.

Most of the schools you mention will never see a home game at these schools.

Temple is committed to a nine game Metro/America 12 schedule. Their remaining games will include an obligatory I-AA filler at home (Howard, Norfolk St. Villanova, etc.), a MAC level home game, and a TV-generated game on the road. Temple has already committed games with the likes of Notre Dame, Penn State, and Army as far out as 2019.

Rutgers is even less likely to see these schools. The Big Ten will upgrade its schedule considerably. They already have long term series coming with Kansas, Army, and UCLA.

Navy? If (and it's an "if") they commit to the Metro/America 12 schedule, its nonconference slate is all but full, with Army, Air Force, and Notre Dame every year.


If JMU does join the SunBelt or MAC then his seat at UDel will be very hot.
Delaware's decision to remain in I-AA is not the decision of the athletic director. It is an institutional decision and not that of the AD.

[Apphole]

What a shame to see the slow death of a proud football program like UD.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Temple is committed to a nine game Metro/America 12 schedule. Their remaining games will include an obligatory I-AA filler at home (Howard, Norfolk St. Villanova, etc.), a MAC level home game, and a TV-generated game on the road. Temple has already committed games with the likes of Notre Dame, Penn State, and Army as far out as 2019.


The hatred towards Temple on this board frankly amazes me, and if his sig said "Go UNI TU Owl" I doubt Temple would get the visceral hatred they seem to get here. But they are everything that App, Georgia Southern, and dare I say ODU aspire to be. Notre Dame, Penn State, Army, a sweetheart stadium deal with the Linc... while they will certainly need to renew it, and it might be a challenge, you can't deny that they have been an incredible success story in the last decade. Without that deal they'd be in the MAC, or perhaps have even dropped football. Instead, they're hosting Notre Dame.

Incidentally, Temple is hosting Fordham this season as a counter.

[mountaineer in Cane Land]

question for any Delware fan, the University is one of the wealthest in the nation, ( I believe, though not entirely sure, the endownments is over 1 billion), if the University is against moving up, fine, I get that, but why not atleast spend some money on upgrades to the stadium, improving gameday experience for the fans, pr campaine etc. Obviously, money is not a problem for the school, just wondering whats holding you guys back.

[bluehenbillk]

question for any Delware fan, the University is one of the wealthest in the nation, ( I believe, though not entirely sure, the endownments is over 1 billion), if the University is against moving up, fine, I get that, but why not atleast spend some money on upgrades to the stadium, improving gameday experience for the fans, pr campaine etc. Obviously, money is not a problem for the school, just wondering whats holding you guys back.

We'd like to know that answer too:)

[MplsBison]

No it won't. The fans may or may not like him worth a damn, but the Pres & BOT don't care about football, so he'll be fine.

Is that really true? And if so...why? That sucks.

I assumed at Delaware that football was the main visibility sport representing the university.

[MplsBison]

question for any Delware fan, the University is one of the wealthest in the nation, ( I believe, though not entirely sure, the endownments is over 1 billion), if the University is against moving up, fine, I get that, but why not atleast spend some money on upgrades to the stadium, improving gameday experience for the fans, pr campaine etc. Obviously, money is not a problem for the school, just wondering whats holding you guys back.

Well if sup is correct, it's because the Delaware admin are trying to kill off the sport.

[MplsBison]

I'm less interested in what Delaware will say as opposed to what they will do.

Is there any chance they could team up with, say, Youngstown St and try to get MAC invitation for at least football only?

[DFW HOYA]

question for any Delware fan, the University is one of the wealthest in the nation, ( I believe, though not entirely sure, the endownments is over 1 billion), if the University is against moving up, fine, I get that, but why not atleast spend some money on upgrades to the stadium, improving gameday experience for the fans, pr campaine etc. Obviously, money is not a problem for the school, just wondering whats holding you guys back.

$1 billion is not altogether "wealthy" in endowment terms due to the percentage of unrestricted versus restricted endowments, e.g., you can't use the proceeds from restricted funds on football or the performing arts or a new library.

FWIW, Delaware ranks #67 nationally in endowment funds, Georgetown #64.

[superman7515]

Well if sup is correct, it's because the Delaware admin are trying to kill off the sport.

I don't think they're trying to kill it off, I just think they are either stuck in a different era or, possibly worse, ambivalent.



$1 billion is not altogether "wealthy" in endowment terms due to the percentage of unrestricted versus restricted endowments, e.g., you can't use the proceeds from restricted funds on football or the performing arts or a new library.

FWIW, Delaware ranks #67 nationally in endowment funds, Georgetown #64.

Correct, if Bill Gates donate's a billion tomorrow to Savannah State, but endows it all to go to a paper airplane design program, the football team is no better off.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

A lot of this talk is kind of why I'm indifferent to the moves. I personally think NDSU is in a great place. A comprehensive doctoral research university with a successful sports program and more importantly a very well funded, well administered football team. They do not need a "front porch" to grow any more at present (they are still trying to catch up with the growth under the Chapman presidency).

Besides, I love Texas in January. Go, be free, do whatever you want. We're happy.

[MplsBison]

A lot of this talk is kind of why I'm indifferent to the moves. I personally think NDSU is in a great place. A comprehensive doctoral research university with a successful sports program and more importantly a very well funded, well administered football team. They do not need a "front porch" to grow any more at present (they are still trying to catch up with the growth under the Chapman presidency).

Besides, I love Texas in January. Go, be free, do whatever you want. We're happy.

While your message is cheerful and no doubt you speak for some NDSU alumni - you absolutely don't have my vote and do not speak for me.

NDSU has *already* done all that can be done in FCS. It very much is time for NDSU to continue growing the brand and such growth can only happen in FBS.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I honestly don't see where UD has made/is making a mistake. The school has many interesting dynamics because of its location, academic reputation, flagship status, tradition, rivals, etc. Any bad decision could result in a complete dumpster fire.

[GannonFan]

I honestly don't see where UD has made/is making a mistake. The school has many interesting dynamics because of its location, academic reputation, flagship status, tradition, rivals, etc. Any bad decision could result in a complete dumpster fire.


Truth be told, I think the dumpster fire has already happened - it happened when they talked about making concrete (pun intended) improvements to the facility and then didn't, and it happened when they jacked up the cost to attend games across the board and didn't do anywhere near a good enough job to sell people on what they were doing. Attendance nosediving from constant sellouts (22k) to averaging around 18k aren't just a statistical blip. Sitting on status quo isn't an option anymore because of the past mistakes that have already been made. Some of the fanbase is never going to come back, and another part is considering why to stay. Those on the fence of why to stay won't really be swayed by the "do nothing" approach.

[Southern Bison]

While your message is cheerful and no doubt you speak for some NDSU alumni - you absolutely don't have my vote and do not speak for me.

NDSU has *already* done all that can be done in FCS. It very much is time for NDSU to continue growing the brand and such growth can only happen in FBS.

NDSU hasn't already done all that can be done. Look at the two programs that are heading to the sunbelt; GaSo takes 6 NCs and a historic program and App takes the only NC 3-peat. NDSU should only look to jump in 15-20 years once we have equaled or eclipsed the departed's stature and records. We are on a high note right now and admittedly the new kid on the block (with the right stuff :D). The continuation of earning FCS NC trophies and the plan to build a new stadium will need to happen long before the Bison start thinking about FBS football.

[bluehenbillk]

Truth be told, I think the dumpster fire has already happened - it happened when they talked about making concrete (pun intended) improvements to the facility and then didn't, and it happened when they jacked up the cost to attend games across the board and didn't do anywhere near a good enough job to sell people on what they were doing. Attendance nosediving from constant sellouts (22k) to averaging around 18k aren't just a statistical blip. Sitting on status quo isn't an option anymore because of the past mistakes that have already been made. Some of the fanbase is never going to come back, and another part is considering why to stay. Those on the fence of why to stay won't really be swayed by the "do nothing" approach.

This is pretty accurate. To sum up where UD fans are coming from an off-the-field perspective. We've seen two or three, I forget the number, artists renditions of upgrades over the past half dozen years. The plans have supposedly changed over time. Meanwhile a fundraising arm, the UDAF, was created, it was a PR nightmare rollout, wasn't tied to anything except helping to support overall athletic department costs in terms of scholarships and mandatory donations were put in that covered close to 70-75% of all seats, excluded endzones & last sections on each side. There is no clear vision, there has been no leadership, there has been no campaign or updates to any supposedly private solicitation that has been going on to high rollers.

Basically all there has been is frustrated ticket holders. UD's season ticket # peaked 3-5 years ago at over 11,000. Last year it was 7,000 something. The expectation this year is it will continue in decline. The new AD Ziady is from BC and has been on the job for about five months now, enough time for him to fire the football coach, and not raise ticket prices or donation requirements for the upcoming season.

UD is in no rush to do anything. It's scary to say but they are less proactive as an athletic department than ever before. When they decide to move anywhere it will most likely be carried to do so while screaming & kicking their legs that their self-defined utopia has been disrupted. The new AD coming from a BCS league on first impression doesn't seem to think fondly of the non-BCS 1-A leagues (MAC, C-USA, SunBelt, etc).

[Big Ugly]

This is pretty accurate. To sum up where UD fans are coming from an off-the-field perspective. We've seen two or three, I forget the number, artists renditions of upgrades over the past half dozen years. The plans have supposedly changed over time. Meanwhile a fundraising arm, the UDAF, was created, it was a PR nightmare rollout, wasn't tied to anything except helping to support overall athletic department costs in terms of scholarships and mandatory donations were put in that covered close to 70-75% of all seats, excluded endzones & last sections on each side. There is no clear vision, there has been no leadership, there has been no campaign or updates to any supposedly private solicitation that has been going on to high rollers.

Basically all there has been is frustrated ticket holders. UD's season ticket # peaked 3-5 years ago at over 11,000. Last year it was 7,000 something. The expectation this year is it will continue in decline. The new AD Ziady is from BC and has been on the job for about five months now, enough time for him to fire the football coach, and not raise ticket prices or donation requirements for the upcoming season.

UD is in no rush to do anything. It's scary to say but they are less proactive as an athletic department than ever before. When they decide to move anywhere it will most likely be carried to do so while screaming & kicking their legs that their self-defined utopia has been disrupted. The new AD coming from a BCS league on first impression doesn't seem to think fondly of the non-BCS 1-A leagues (MAC, C-USA, SunBelt, etc).

BHB
You are right on the money as are a few other posters. They the UD administration doesn't get it. There are a few non-BCS leagues that would work well geographically for UD and some that would be a challenge BUT I beleive they have to look at all offers. I am of the opinion that once you move to the next level it makes it so much easier to get to the conference that is the best fit. I also believe that in the not too distant future the BCS schools will stop scheduling FCS schools, there will be little to no benefit for them particularly if FCS wins basically "stop counting". I know posts on other boards and perhaps Z looks down on the non-BCS schools but it will be the place to be for a school like UD. The better FCS schools will jump and it will be the true second level of college football. Perhaps UD really doesn't care, that's a shame and recruiting will pay dearly. You either mover forward or fall behind, staying in place is NOT an option. A few posters mentioned the new FCS will feature private schools, I agree with that. The administrators have to quit talking like big boys and start acting like it, UD is capable of and should be in the second level of college football. Stop with the excuses and do what is right.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I also believe that in the not too distant future the BCS schools will stop scheduling FCS schools, there will be little to no benefit for them particularly if FCS wins basically "stop counting".

They won't stop counting.


UD is capable of and should be in the second level of college football.

They are.

[Big Ugly]

They won't stop counting.



They are.

Perhaps "not counting" was a poor choice of words but I think you get my point.

[HenZoneNation]

Is that really true? And if so...why? That sucks.

I assumed at Delaware that football was the main visibility sport representing the university.

Delaware has always been concerned about Academics (which is a good thing) but historically has taken this ridiculous stance that you can't have both. There's a book called the 100 years of Delaware football and many of the issues the program faced back then are the same ones we are facing now. When Tubby was first starting the administration grinded it's heals about scholarships, playing freshmen, adding on to the stadium. We basically made Temple what it is today by being slow to make moves. I'm sure they will eventually turn things around but at what point or pace, who knows.

[Big Ugly]

Delaware has always been concerned about Academics (which is a good thing) but historically has taken this ridiculous stance that you can't have both. There's a book called the 100 years of Delaware football and many of the issues the program faced back then are the same ones we are facing now. When Tubby was first starting the administration grinded it's heals about scholarships, playing freshmen, adding on to the stadium. We basically made Temple what it is today by being slow to make moves. I'm sure they will eventually turn things around but at what point or pace, who knows.

Sooner would be better than later

[MplsBison]

Delaware has always been concerned about Academics (which is a good thing) but historically has taken this ridiculous stance that you can't have both. There's a book called the 100 years of Delaware football and many of the issues the program faced back then are the same ones we are facing now. When Tubby was first starting the administration grinded it's heals about scholarships, playing freshmen, adding on to the stadium. We basically made Temple what it is today by being slow to make moves. I'm sure they will eventually turn things around but at what point or pace, who knows.

Get the old fart-knockers out of there, then.

[Apps03]

A lot of this talk is kind of why I'm indifferent to the moves. I personally think NDSU is in a great place. A comprehensive doctoral research university with a successful sports program and more importantly a very well funded, well administered football team. They do not need a "front porch" to grow any more at present (they are still trying to catch up with the growth under the Chapman presidency).

Besides, I love Texas in January. Go, be free, do whatever you want. We're happy.

Your first paragraph is by far the best post you've made on this subject. Its awesome NDSU already has those things academically. ASU does not. That does not mean we are not a fine academic institution. The ASU administration believes, right or wrong, that moving to FBS football will help bring those things to Boone. NDSU is the state university and has all the advantages that come with that. Our administration believes that being FBS will raise the university's profile and ultimately lead to us getting those programs. Resources are hard to come by in the state of NC where the BOG, which controls all system funding, is comprised of 80% or more of UNC grads. I can see where the flagship schools in a particular state z(Montana, NDSU, Delaware, New Hampshire, etc.) don't understand/agree that concept.

As to the point of the thread, the AD/President will likely continue down their current path unless the alumni are vocal enough in their opposition or support.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Your first paragraph is by far the best post you've made on this subject. Its awesome NDSU already has those things academically. ASU does not. That does not mean we are not a fine academic institution. The ASU administration believes, right or wrong, that moving to FBS football will help bring those things to Boone. NDSU is the state university and has all the advantages that come with that. Our administration believes that being FBS will raise the university's profile and ultimately lead to us getting those programs. Resources are hard to come by in the state of NC where the BOG, which controls all system funding, is comprised of 80% or more of UNC grads. I can see where the flagship schools in a particular state z(Montana, NDSU, Delaware, New Hampshire, etc.) don't understand/agree that concept.

As to the point of the thread, the AD/President will likely continue down their current path unless the alumni are vocal enough in their opposition or support.

Actually the powers that be tend to be UND grads so NDSU gets pretty screwed on the state level. They get most of their funding from their work.

[FargoBison]

Your first paragraph is by far the best post you've made on this subject. Its awesome NDSU already has those things academically. ASU does not. That does not mean we are not a fine academic institution. The ASU administration believes, right or wrong, that moving to FBS football will help bring those things to Boone. NDSU is the state university and has all the advantages that come with that. Our administration believes that being FBS will raise the university's profile and ultimately lead to us getting those programs. Resources are hard to come by in the state of NC where the BOG, which controls all system funding, is comprised of 80% or more of UNC grads. I can see where the flagship schools in a particular state z(Montana, NDSU, Delaware, New Hampshire, etc.) don't understand/agree that concept.

As to the point of the thread, the AD/President will likely continue down their current path unless the alumni are vocal enough in their opposition or support.

NDSU going FBS would have more to do with the state of the FCS...which our AD is concerned about right now. NDSU stayed in D2 for too long and it hurt the football program terribly, that mistake will not be allowed to happen again.

We definitely understand where you are coming from...NDSU left DII for DI for some of those same reasons you mentioned. Our president and AD believe in the front porch idea.

[DFW HOYA]

Worth repeating in this discussion: there is no Sun Belt-style league in the Northeast from which Delaware would be a good all sports fit. The MAC is "Mid-American", despite what Buffalo (and more recently, Temple) would tell you.

If Army, Navy, Buffalo, Temple, UMass, et al. were all playing in a conference, maybe it's a better option. Absent that, UDel does not have the location that GSU or App has.

[PAllen]

Worth repeating in this discussion: there is no Sun Belt-style league in the Northeast from which Delaware would be a good all sports fit. The MAC is "Mid-American", despite what Buffalo (and more recently, Temple) would tell you.

If Army, Navy, Buffalo, Temple, UMass, et al. were all playing in a conference, maybe it's a better option. Absent that, UDel does not have the location that GSU or App has.

Except that Buffalo and UMass are both MAC, and Army and Navy will return to independent status sooner rather than later.

[MplsBison]

Worth repeating in this discussion: there is no Sun Belt-style league in the Northeast from which Delaware would be a good all sports fit. The MAC is "Mid-American", despite what Buffalo (and more recently, Temple) would tell you.

If Army, Navy, Buffalo, Temple, UMass, et al. were all playing in a conference, maybe it's a better option. Absent that, UDel does not have the location that GSU or App has.

Delaware would fit just fine in the MAC for football.

[bandit]

NDSU going FBS would have more to do with the state of the FCS...which our AD is concerned about right now. NDSU stayed in D2 for too long and it hurt the football program terribly, that mistake will not be allowed to happen again.

We definitely understand where you are coming from...NDSU left DII for DI for some of those same reasons you mentioned. Our president and AD believe in the front porch idea.


This is the biggest point that is going to drive future moves up to FBS. The reality is that when you look at who has already moved or is in the process of moving, the FCS level is becoming something completely different. Schools like Delaware, Montana, Montana State, NDSU, Missouri State and others who are able to make the move need to decide the long-term direction of their programs. FCS is not what it once was, and it's only going to get worse. The Western schools missed a golden opportunity to step in and remake the WAC to their own specifics, and they didn't take advantage. Now they are watching many top FCS programs in the south and East make the move up.

[GannonFan]

Delaware would fit just fine in the MAC for football.

Agreed. The eastern part of the MAC is Buffalo, UMass, and then a bunch of Ohio schools. Heck, most of those schools are a shorter trip for UD than trips to Maine and UNH are today. The MAC is a very viable option for UD at the FBS level, probably the most viable.

[MplsBison]

This is the biggest point that is going to drive future moves up to FBS. The reality is that when you look at who has already moved or is in the process of moving, the FCS level is becoming something completely different. Schools like Delaware, Montana, Montana State, NDSU, Missouri State and others who are able to make the move need to decide the long-term direction of their programs. FCS is not what it once was, and it's only going to get worse. The Western schools missed a golden opportunity to step in and remake the WAC to their own specifics, and they didn't take advantage. Now they are watching many top FCS programs in the south and East make the move up.

And I'm sure ursus is happy as a pig in poop and tickled that the Big Sky core group will be together and regulated to expensive DII football.

[MplsBison]

Agreed. The eastern part of the MAC is Buffalo, UMass, and then a bunch of Ohio schools. Heck, most of those schools are a shorter trip for UD than trips to Maine and UNH are today. The MAC is a very viable option for UD at the FBS level, probably the most viable.

So do you team up with Youngstown or JMU and make a go at it?

[GannonFan]

So do you team up with Youngstown or JMU and make a go at it?

I would, at least with JMU. And then hope that down the pike the idea of an either more eastern MAC develops or UD gets into whatever the to be named leftover conference of the Big East takes shape. Playing in a conference with UConn and Temple and Navy, as well as UMass and JMU and East Carolina and others (heck, does Appy St come too to a conference like that, or ODU) would be the best scenario. UD has burned the bridges with the fanbase, and there'll be no getting some of that base back. Staying put and saying everything is fine while FCS football gets further and further removed from the "BCS" (I know the name has changed, but the reality hasn't) level as a burgeoning non-BCS level of football will make the divide that much more stark.

It's been great, but UD has overstayed it's welcome and if they have any chance of reversing the disturbing trend of plummeting season ticket sales and just overall declining attendance, it has to be done by showing they want to reinvest in and grow the program. You can't do that in a CAA that is falling apart and declining over many sports.

[FargoBison]

So do you team up with Youngstown or JMU and make a go at it?

Going to have to be JMU...YSU is blocked from a MAC invite.

[MplsBison]

Going to have to be JMU...YSU is blocked from a MAC invite.

Says who? Link?

[MplsBison]

I would, at least with JMU. And then hope that down the pike the idea of an either more eastern MAC develops or UD gets into whatever the to be named leftover conference of the Big East takes shape. Playing in a conference with UConn and Temple and Navy, as well as UMass and JMU and East Carolina and others (heck, does Appy St come too to a conference like that, or ODU) would be the best scenario. UD has burned the bridges with the fanbase, and there'll be no getting some of that base back. Staying put and saying everything is fine while FCS football gets further and further removed from the "BCS" (I know the name has changed, but the reality hasn't) level as a burgeoning non-BCS level of football will make the divide that much more stark.

It's been great, but UD has overstayed it's welcome and if they have any chance of reversing the disturbing trend of plummeting season ticket sales and just overall declining attendance, it has to be done by showing they want to reinvest in and grow the program. You can't do that in a CAA that is falling apart and declining over many sports.

Good luck to you! I hope UD can make the move.

I already feel like NDSU is in the same boat, but just a couple slight differences: A) nowhere to go (unless the MAC gets crazy about western expansion) and B) we do have success in FCS right now, which seems to placate the older alumni/fans who just wanted to return to the glory days of DII in the 80's and don't really care about the overall landscape as long as we're winning trophies that say "National Champion" on them.

[FargoBison]

Says who? Link?

The MAC has a billion Ohio schools already....they don't won't anymore. If they league expands it will be in new areas.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Going to have to be JMU...YSU is blocked from a MAC invite.

They were voted down by Kent State and Akron.

Somebody special is currently at Akron that may move the needle a little.