Delaware AD: Georgia Southern/Appalachian State Aren't Really Moving Up

[superman7515]

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20130330/SPORTS07/303300040/Delaware-women-put-university-rare-spotlight


Two men’s programs from Delaware’s conference, the Colonial Athletic Association, reached that hallowed Final Four destination – George Mason in 2006 and VCU in 2011. Both later parlayed those into moves to a higher-profile league for basketball, the Atlantic 10, with VCU moving this year and Mason following next year.

With the constant movement of schools to different leagues that has taken place lately, Ziady was asked if the success of the women’s basketball team could have a similar affect for Delaware. It should be noted that neither Mason nor VCU plays football. Delaware rejected a move to the Atlantic 10 in the early 1990s because, while it was beneficial for basketball, it wasn’t for other sports.

“We’re very cognizant of the things that are out there and the things that could develop over time,” Ziady said, “but we’re not rushing into something because it pleases someone that there’s activity. Activity doesn’t mean success or it doesn’t mean advancement.”

Two FCS football powers, Georgia Southern and Appalachian State, announced last week they’re planning a move to the FBS Sun Belt Conference.

“When you get back to that equation of what are you “moving up” to, you have to really look at what you’re moving up to,” said Ziady, hired as Delaware AD in November after a long stint at ACC member Boston College. “We’re not [receiving] offers from the ACC or the Big Ten. Everybody’s emailing me about what Georgia Southern and Appalachian State are doing. That’s not moving up. It’s a designation that signifies you’re moving up but you’re not moving up.’’

The Atlantic 10, which had 16 members this season, is losing Butler and Xavier to the revamped Big East, Temple to the unnamed conference of former Big East football schools, and Charlotte to Conference USA. With other defections possible, it may seek other additions.

The CAA will have nine full members next year with the departures of George Mason, Old Dominion and Georgia State and the addition of the College of Charleston. Albany and Stony Brook are coming in for football only.

“We’re proud members in the Colonial Athletic Association and are working with the Colonial schools to strengthen our conference as best we can,” Ziady said.

[IBleedYellow]

Read "I was in the ACC, in their opinion, and mine aswell, the Sun Belt doesn't exist in our eyes."

Whomp.

[blueballs]

I'm not sure what to make of those statements... it reeks of elitism, ignorance, and sour grapes all rolled into one. Very strange indeed.

Not FCS related, but UD's hoops success is all about one thing- Elena Della Donne. Once she's gone to the pros UD's women's hoops will be right back in the middle of the pack (middling mid major) from a national perspective. She's a once in a lifetime talent for a program like UD. I'm rooting for UD and Della Donne to win again in the round of 16 and beyond, she was awesome the other night.

[GlassOnion]

He's making those remarks because he is the head man of a directionless football program, who, like JMU are starting to grow uneasy with the things going on around them. Theyre coming to him for answers, and he either doesnt know what to do, or doesnt want to extend the effort.

[mountaineer in Cane Land]

I do not watch much collage womens basketball, but this Donne kid is alot of fun to watch, just this one time, I've become a Delaware fan, hope they win the championship, would love to see them take down UCONN. As far as this guys statement, sounds like he is alittle bitter, probably wishes he was still in the ACC.

[md64179]

Hater

[Ivytalk]

Ziady doesn't know his azz from a hole in the ground. I kind of miss Edgar Johnson. Except for the West Chester part.

[PhillyApp1]

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20130330/SPORTS07/303300040/Delaware-women-put-university-rare-spotlight

This is so funny....he did a great job to deflect the pressure he is getting...LMAO...he is way over his head and realizes UD has very few good choices....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Wow, App fans giving advice to Delaware fans how to run their program? xlolx

[PhillyApp1]

Wow, App fans giving advice to Delaware fans how to run their program? xlolx

AGAIN, you are wrong !
I know to many Lehigh grads, and your intelligence does not meet a graduate of Lehigh. Read the thread one word at a time.

APP fans are responding to the UD athletic director who is way over his head.
UD has a tough choice, and he chose to use APP and Ga Southern as a bad example of moving up in the level of football conference.
UD is afraid of becoming another Temple and likes being in 1AA environment.
But the 1AA environment may disappear and then he becomes DII like West Chester which is worse.
I feel sorry for Delaware, Villanova and many other schools who are getting screwed by the changing times in college sports. I went to both Delaware and Villanova games growing up and hope they land on their feet.

[GlassOnion]

Wow, App fans giving advice to Delaware fans how to run their program? xlolx

Where do you get that from the article?

The UD AD is sticking his nose into something that he knows nothing about. If he doesnt want criticism from App fans, then he sould just talk about UD and keep his big mouth shut on App.

[asumike83]

The Delaware AD's opinion on Appalachian's conference affiliation is of no real importance. Clearly, he's been getting a lot of questions about a possible FBS move. I'm just surprised that his response was so unprofessional. He could have very easily said "I am aware of what Appalachian State and Georgia Southern are doing and at this time, I do not feel that a similar move is in the best interest of Delaware."

Instead, he takes a public shot at ASU/GSU and at the same time, basically tells all the UD fans who have been e-mailing him to shut up and knock it off. Not every program is interested in playing FBS football, which is fine. If that is his stance then best wishes in the FCS but such a condescending statement was uncalled for. It is not necessary to put someone else down in order to say something positive about your own university. Pretty childish statement from a person in power.

[asumike83]

Wow, App fans giving advice to Delaware fans how to run their program? xlolx

How do you figure? None of the comments from App fans on this thread have said that he needs to get Delaware in an FBS conference, or do anything at all for that matter.

I think the general consensus is run your own athletic department, let Appalachian run theirs and don't be a dick. Doesn't seem like too much to ask of an AD.

[superman7515]

Wow, App fans giving advice to Delaware fans how to run their program? xlolx

I disagree, it doesn't sound like the App fans are telling Delaware fans anything. It sounds like a guy from the ACC who has been around for 6 months is telling UD fans how to run their program. How well that will go over, I dunno, depends on if anyone bothers to contact him about it or his disrespectful tone towards other programs.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I disagree, it doesn't sound like the App fans are telling Delaware fans anything. It sounds like a guy from the ACC who has been around for 6 months is telling UD fans how to run their program. How well that will go over, I dunno, depends on if anyone bothers to contact him about it or his disrespectful tone towards other programs.

You mean, the guy who is paid to run the program?

[superman7515]

Yeah, the one that showed up and fired a football coach who had made 3 NC appearances in the last decade to hire his buddy who ran one of the statistically worst offensives in football, but left in the place the men's basketball coach with the worst win % of any coach in Division 1 basketball with his tenure. I don't care one way or another who the coach is, I'm a fan of the team, not the coach, but he certainly hasn't endeared himself to many in his short time in Newark and apparently there were enough emails to warrant him commenting on it in the papers, so "sit down and shut up" probably won't give many warm fuzzies either.

[MplsBison]

I'm not sure what to make of those statements... it reeks of elitism, ignorance, and sour grapes all rolled into one. Very strange indeed.

Not FCS related, but UD's hoops success is all about one thing- Elena Della Donne. Once she's gone to the pros UD's women's hoops will be right back in the middle of the pack (middling mid major) from a national perspective. She's a once in a lifetime talent for a program like UD. I'm rooting for UD and Della Donne to win again in the round of 16 and beyond, she was awesome the other night.

Agreed on the reeking statement. Just terrible PR. Terrible.

You could also throw this one in there: desperation. Flat desperate to save the appearance of the CAA as a feasible conference - the conference that Delaware backstabbed and blackmailed to build for itself.

"Nothing to see here folks! CAA's doing just fine, thank you very much!" *gears and shafts are snapping and flying out of the engine compartment*

And now it's crashing down and taking any value that was propping up a TV contract with it.

Reap what you sow, I guess.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yeah, the one that showed up and fired a football coach who had made 3 NC appearances in the last decade to hire his buddy who ran one of the statistically worst offensives in football, but left in the place the men's basketball coach with the worst win % of any coach in Division 1 basketball with his tenure. I don't care one way or another who the coach is, I'm a fan of the team, not the coach, but he certainly hasn't endeared himself to many in his short time in Newark and apparently there were enough emails to warrant him commenting on it in the papers, so "sit down and shut up" probably won't give many warm fuzzies either.

A fair point, I see what you're saying now. Time will tell if pushing out KC was a good move or bad move, but I see the "my way or the highway" approach to this is just one more incident in a string of them.

Still, though, it seems like the guy is offering his opinion on what App State and Georgia Southern are doing, and that the Sun Belt isn't really "moving up" from the elite of FCS, that the top levels of FCS and the Sun Belt and MAC are pretty much the same. I agree there are sure going to be Delaware fans that won't be happy in saying that, but what I don't get is why App fans are so upset and feel the need to comment.

Oh wait, I remember - anyone who's not foursquare behind App State going to and dominating the Sun Belt is a liar and any commentary, facts or otherwise proving that it will cost more and it's "not really a move up" hurts their feelings and therefore it must not be discussed.

[MplsBison]

A fair point, I see what you're saying now. Time will tell if pushing out KC was a good move or bad move, but I see the "my way or the highway" approach to this is just one more incident in a string of them.

Still, though, it seems like the guy is offering his opinion on what App State and Georgia Southern are doing, and that the Sun Belt isn't really "moving up" from the elite of FCS, that the top levels of FCS and the Sun Belt and MAC are pretty much the same. I agree there are sure going to be Delaware fans that won't be happy in saying that, but what I don't get is why App fans are so upset and feel the need to comment.

Oh wait, I remember - anyone who's not foursquare behind App State going to and dominating the Sun Belt is a liar and any commentary, facts or otherwise proving that it will cost more and it's "not really a move up" hurts their feelings and therefore it must not be discussed.

**ON THE FIELD** no the Sun Belt and the top of the SoCon aren't that much different.

In other words, the one aspect of college football which literally does not matter at the moment...


Maybe that's a sad statement, but it's reality right now.

[Laker]

The next thing that will happen is LeBron will intentionally foul Elena Delle Donne. Seeing this. Joe Biden will discharge two shotgun blasts into the air and try to rush the court in her defense, but Tubby Raymond gets there first. Danny Ainge will comment that the winged pattern helmets are outdated, Phil Jackson will lambast him and challenge him to a poetry contest with the winner receiving the Lambert Cup.

I think that the AD should have answered questions on whether or not it would be a good fit for Delaware, and not about App State and Georgia Southern. This just makes him look bad, and as Superman noted he hasn't helped himself with those comments. It is one thing for us to throw our opinions around on these boards, but it didn't look good for him to comment in the media.

[GlassOnion]

Oh wait, I remember - anyone who's not foursquare behind App State going to and dominating the Sun Belt is a liar and any commentary, facts or otherwise proving that it will cost more and it's "not really a move up" hurts their feelings and therefore it must not be discussed.

Where is it proven that its not a step up? An opinion is not proof, even if it is the same as yours.

App would rather play the Troys, ODUs, ASUs, TxSts of the world than anyone else in the Socon and 95% of the FCS for that matter. Week in and week out, we'll play better competition. We'll play on TV, and in front of double the attendance, and in facilities that put most of the FCS to shame. Looks like a step up to me.

It cant be any worse than the FCS, where even successful programs, like New Hampshire, play in 2A high school stadiums. Where there are no standards, where schools with no scholarships play and are given automatic playoff births, in a playoff system that is ignored or completely unknown to the average FB fan. Most of the nation doesnt even know what to call the division, its so inconsequential.

Then there is the fact, that all of these highly successful programs have moved up, for decades. You really know whats better for all of these programs? You know better than all of these ADs, Presidents and coaches?

I call BS. Even the UD AD knows diddly squat about the App program, Troy program, GSU, ODU, Marshall, Umass, TxSt, take your pick.

[asumike83]

I agree there are sure going to be Delaware fans that won't be happy in saying that, but what I don't get is why App fans are so upset and feel the need to comment.

Oh wait, I remember - anyone who's not foursquare behind App State going to and dominating the Sun Belt is a liar and any commentary, facts or otherwise proving that it will cost more and it's "not really a move up" hurts their feelings and therefore it must not be discussed.

He called out Appalachian by name, criticizing a decision that had nothing to do with him in a very condescending manner. Regardless of how anyone feels about the decision, it has been made and it is a very important time for the ASU athletic department. Public criticism from administrators of prominent FCS programs is the last thing App needs. You really don't see why the fans would want to comment?

Also, I'd like to see the comment in this thread where anyone called him a liar, because I must have missed it. He is not a liar for expressing his opinion, he is just a condescending prick for expressing it in the manner he did. Someone in his position should be held to a little higher standard than an anonymous poster on a message board.

[Saint3333]

Sounds like a man worried about an uprising.

[appsfan]

He's entitled to his opinion. If he said that, in his opinion there was no difference between lower end FBS and higher end FCS that would be fine. When he referenced us, he stuck his nose where it doesn't belong. For the record, our move is a move up regardless what this guy said.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Sounds like a man worried about an uprising.

The guy is entitled to his own opinion, but as an App Fan I am entitled to toss my .02 in. The guy is in charge of a program that is floundering. They play in a dilapidated, decrepit and filthy football stadium. Many of their alumni live in the glory of their bygone D-II days and are only interested in winning even if it is beating up on West Chester, Del State and Bucknell. The conference they are in is falling apart around them. He tosses out negatives to take the spotlight off his program. According to some Delaware fans I have spoken to they are mired in the past and in many ways happy to be there.

[MplsBison]

The guy is entitled to his own opinion, but as an App Fan I am entitled to toss my .02 in. The guy is in charge of a program that is floundering. They play in a dilapidated, decrepit and filthy football stadium. Many of their alumni live in the glory of their bygone D-II days and are only interested in winning even if it is beating up on West Chester, Del State and Bucknell. The conference they are in is falling apart around them. He tosses out negatives to take the spotlight off his program. According to some Delaware fans I have spoken to they are mired in the past and in many ways happy to be there.

Apparently the end all, be all of Delaware's athletic existence was to have a single conference for all sports (which they still don't technically have, as the CAA FC is a separate entity from the CAA) and to have a TV contract for said conference that would feature Delaware football games.

Reality is that both those things are crashing down right now...

[Bisonwinagn]

Wow some of you are missing the point. The AD said in the ACC eye's the sun belt doesn't exist. He is exactly right as the teams and fans from the BCS conferences could care less about the mid majors, FCS, D2 etc. And yes most of those fans are arrogant and incompetent regarding football, but it is still true. That's why it's clear they will have their own division soon.

Georgia Southern will compete for the Sun Belt championship in 2015 so it seems like a lateral move to me. Not sure how people are upset over facts.

[HenZoneNation]

I haven't read the majority of posts on this thread so if I'm repeating anyone else's thoughts I apologize. First, I'm going to mis Appy State. As far as FCS programs go they are the bench mark both in upgrading their facilities as well as getting people interested in the program. Seems to me like games are always packed and the community and university really seem to support them. This is a big loss for the FCS.

As far as our AD goes...the jury is out on him. I don't like the BROCK move at all, nor do I like how KC was dealt with but it is what it is and I will support and cheer as loud as I can. His statement...look he's coming from the ACC, they don't get it. In their eyes, and maybe their right I don't know, there will be 4 major conferences that matter and everybody else is just AAA. He's also trying to deal with a fan base that is split. Some want to go up, some want to stay. He's also dealing with an administration who has historically dragged its feet on many football issues.

For APP and GSU fans, it's great that you now have a built in rival. Had one or the other gone up I don't know if it would have been as great a move, but this makes sense. You probably will never compete for another NC, maybe not even appear in a big Bowl game. That being said, you'll have nicer stadiums and more NFL caliber players to watch and be proud of on Sundays. You will be missed both in playoffs and on these boards. Best of luck.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Good for Ziady for calling a spade a spade.

The Sun Belt has always been a garbage conference and will continue to be a garbage conference. All App State and Ga Southern accomplished is adding to their athletic budget while eliminating the possibility of accomplishing something meaningful each fall.

Congrats?

[MplsBison]

Good for Ziady for calling a spade a spade.

The Sun Belt has always been a garbage conference and will continue to be a garbage conference. All App State and Ga Southern accomplished is adding to their athletic budget while eliminating the possibility of accomplishing something meaningful each fall.

Congrats?

Congrats to you, for being wrong on all points in such a short post.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Congrats to you, for being wrong on all points in such a short post.

Jealous that the Bison didn't get the 'call up' to the 'majors' too?

[caribbeanhen]

I see this as a lose lose scenario.... 1aa football lost 2 outstanding programs ...... that's a lose for all the teams remaining at the FCS level, the other loss is that Appy and GeSo are not only gone but to the Sun Belt....... Z Daddy is right with his is that really moving up quote. It's a stinker any way you slice it

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Wow some of you are missing the point. The AD said in the ACC eye's the sun belt doesn't exist. He is exactly right as the teams and fans from the BCS conferences could care less about the mid majors, FCS, D2 etc. And yes most of those fans are arrogant and incompetent regarding football, but it is still true. That's why it's clear they will have their own division soon.

Georgia Southern will compete for the Sun Belt championship in 2015 so it seems like a lateral move to me. Not sure how people are upset over facts.

So those 6-7 games against the Sun Belt by ACC teams the past few years means what?

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Jealous that the Bison didn't get the 'call up' to the 'majors' too?

We may not be in the majors, but we ain't playing rookie league ball in 8,000 seat stadiums either. Just as the FCS national championship means very little to anyone outside the schools in the division, playing for a Sun Belt conference championship and trip to a bowl game is meaningful to those playing for them. It's all relative.

[Big Ugly]

I see this as a lose lose scenario.... 1aa football lost 2 outstanding programs ...... that's a lose for all the teams remaining at the FCS level, the other loss is that Appy and GeSo are not only gone but to the Sun Belt....... Z Daddy is right with his is that really moving up quote. It's a stinker any way you slice it

You are either moving forward or falling back there is no staying in place. UD fans should be concerned even the ones that live in the glory of the past. UD should be looking at facility upgrades and making themselves appealing to all potential opportunities. It comes down to one question and only one question after all of the posturing. Do you want to be second tier or third tier college football? If being third tier fits the agenda, so be it, if it doesn't make the changes but don't be third tier and act like you are second tier. History and tradition are honorable but that doesn't guarantee success in the future. Do not bash those that are willing to move forward and accept the risk. The passion of some UD fans is admirable but the arrogance can be trying at times. Look at the landscape and how it is changing, it is pretty clear how things are changing and what the future may offer. Financially it may be a risk to move up but it may be a risk not too as well.

[Tribe4SF]

. Look at the landscape and how it is changing, it is pretty clear how things are changing and what the future may offer. Financially it may be a risk to move up but it may be a risk not too as well.

I don't think it's all that clear how things are changing. What gets better for a school like Delaware with a move to the Sunbelt? Their closest rival would be App St. Their travel costs for basketball, and other sports would be massive. Whether such a move would increase football attendance is highly questionable. They would be married to an additional 40 or so scholarships. The seven home football games they often have would be tough to maintain. They'd be forced to play money games at BCS schools. If they want an FCS game each year they'll have to shell out big bucks to get it unless they want to settle for an NEC school which won't count for bowl eligibility. Their strong, traveling fan base would be hard pressed to make most away games.

The financial risk of such a move is more than clear. What's the financial risk of not making that move? CUSA, or the MAC might offer better prospects, but who knows if even the Sunbelt is knocking on the door. Is this about chasing future BCS, or major basketball league invitations? If so that's a low odds gamble.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Jealous that the Bison didn't get the 'call up' to the 'majors' too?

No, simply deluded.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The financial risk of such a move is more than clear. What's the financial risk of not making that move? CUSA, or the MAC might offer better prospects, but who knows if even the Sunbelt is knocking on the door. Is this about chasing future BCS, or major basketball league invitations? If so that's a low odds gamble.

Not a single FCS team of the 31 that have moved to low-FBS is in a "Big 5/BCS" conference.

Not a single FCS team of the 31 that have moved to low-FBS is getting $20 million a year in TV money.

That should underscore how high-risk it is. Even the most successful move-up ever, Boise State, isn't a member of the club.

[blueballs]

I think a lot of folks here, as well as the UD AD, are missing the point of the move.

Go back and watch the video GSU's President Keel put out, which was posted on this forum two weeks ago. The premise of the move is that athletics serve as the "front porch of the university," and athletics can be used as a vehicle for expanding the university's profile from that of a regional university to a national research university. Look no farther than FL Gulf Coast in the past two weeks for a vivid example of a sports team raising the proifile of a university.

That point was lost on GSU's previous president and AD and it seems to be lost on UD's AD.

Was 1-AA/FCS good to Georgia Southern? Hell yes! Georgia Southern went from a teachers college with an enrollment of about 5500 in the early 80's to a regional university with an enrollment in excess of 20k and a large part of the growth goes back to Dale Lick's vision and Erk Russell's making that vision a reality.

Now it is time for the next step, which is to raise GSU's profile as an institution to the next level. Athletics is a big part of that- not the only part but a big part. That's why GSU is doing what they're doing and it is the right decision when viewed in the big picture of what is right for the university as a whole and its stated mission of becoming a national research university.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

^^That point isn't lost on anyone.

I just think your 'front porch' has zero curb appeal. Which of the existing Sun Belch schools is a 'National research University'?

How many incremental eye balls watched the 2 Sun Belch toilet bowl games versus the FCS title Game?

[Sader87]

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic comes to mind. Another Titanic-esque metaphor that also comes to mind is that of App St and Georgia Southern donning women's clothes to get on one of the last lifeboats off the ship.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic comes to mind. Another Titanic-esque metaphor that also comes to mind is that of App St and Georgia Southern donning women's clothes to get on one of the last lifeboats off the ship.

Yet no one can point to any reason to believe the FCS is sinking. FBS is a trainwreck of inequality of opportunity.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Has there been any analysis on how many more GoDaddy.com Bowl Tee Shirts the ASU Bookstore can sell than than FCS National Championship Tee Shirts?

Can they charge more for the GoDaddy shirts than the NCAA Championship shirts?

[Tribe4SF]

I think for Georgia Southern the "front porch" factor is legitimate. For a school like Delaware, not so much, and for a school like W&M there is no need. We are already a top ranked national research university, and while athletics can help raise the schools profile, the impact has to be viewed in context. For Delaware I just don't see a move to a league like the Sunbelt as contributing anything to the university. They are currently aligned with like minded institutions in the CAA, and are better served by expanding those associations. Bring Stony Brook and Albany in as all-sport members, and convince JMU they're better off staying. Invest in improved facilities, and basketball recruiting. Those are my agendas.

[Sader87]

Yet no one can point to any reason to believe the FCS is sinking. FBS is a trainwreck of inequality of opportunity.

I don't think FCS is sinking just yet but it is a very expensive proposition for a lot of schools. I don't think it's a level that will last after all the realignments/restructuring in college athletics occur after the next 5-10 years or so.

It's the right move for schools like App St, Georgia Southern, JMU et. al. (basically large public schools)....the future of FCS (if it exists) will be for smaller public and private schools.

[Big Ugly]

I don't think it's all that clear how things are changing. What gets better for a school like Delaware with a move to the Sunbelt? Their closest rival would be App St. Their travel costs for basketball, and other sports would be massive. Whether such a move would increase football attendance is highly questionable. They would be married to an additional 40 or so scholarships. The seven home football games they often have would be tough to maintain. They'd be forced to play money games at BCS schools. If they want an FCS game each year they'll have to shell out big bucks to get it unless they want to settle for an NEC school which won't count for bowl eligibility. Their strong, traveling fan base would be hard pressed to make most away games.

The financial risk of such a move is more than clear. What's the financial risk of not making that move? CUSA, or the MAC might offer better prospects, but who knows if even the Sunbelt is knocking on the door. Is this about chasing future BCS, or major basketball league invitations? If so that's a low odds gamble.

I did not say the Sun Belt is the answer. "UD should be looking at facility upgrades and making themselves appealing to all potential opportunities." A point to ponder...Will a school already in the FBS get the nod over another school in the FCS if a more desirable league (geographically, academically...) expands like the MAC for example? What are the potential lost earnings if all of the FBS decides that they will no longer play FCS level programs? I am not saying a move is necessary or even desired but programs that wait or fail to prepare may be left behind. I have read several posts where posters criicze "easy opponents" and want teams to schedule more challenging foes. How is that going to happen if the better FCS schools are heading to the FBS and the FBS schools are reducing or eliminating FCS schools that they will schedule? I am not trying to force FBS on anyone, that is a decision made by the individual institution but when I read the various posts it appears that some think because I am school XYZ, I can move to FBS whenever or if they decide. The soon to be second tiers will be looking at the best options for their leagues and those on the bubble better have something good to offer and it is a "what have you done for me lately world" so tradition/history will be trumped by earning potential and potential TV ratings. The point of my post is not to promote FBS or criricize the FCS it is more to consider potential opportunities or in some cases lost opportunites from a different perspective.

[Tribe4SF]

I don't think FCS is sinking just yet but it is a very expensive proposition for a lot of schools. I don't think it's a level that will last after all the realignments/restructuring in college athletics occur after the next 5-10 years or so.

It's the right move for schools like App St, Georgia Southern, JMU et. al. (basically large public schools)....the future of FCS (if it exists) will be for smaller public and private schools.

Yes, FCS is an expensive proposition, but FBS at the lower levels is as well. It remains to be seen if it's the right move for the schools currently jumping. I would say definitely yes for ODU, and probably App St.

FCS is not going to go away. The top level of college football is becoming a closed shop, and those who are in are not going to share riches with the second tier. As opposed to FCS vanishing, I think it's more likely that the second tier (lower FBS) has to step back and reevaluate the expense.

[Sader87]

Yes, FCS is an expensive proposition, but FBS at the lower levels is as well. It remains to be seen if it's the right move for the schools currently jumping. I would say definitely yes for ODU, and probably App St.

FCS is not going to go away. The top level of college football is becoming a closed shop, and those who are in are not going to share riches with the second tier. As opposed to FCS vanishing, I think it's more likely that the second tier (lower FBS) has to step back and reevaluate the expense.

I think (and hope) you're right....if nothing else, it should be an interesting next 5-10 years in that regard.

[blueballs]

^^That point isn't lost on anyone.

I just think your 'front porch' has zero curb appeal. Which of the existing Sun Belch schools is a 'National research University'?

How many incremental eye balls watched the 2 Sun Belch toilet bowl games versus the FCS title Game?

Per ESPN the Little Caesers Bowl drew 2,663,000 viewers, the New Orleans Bowl drew 2,636,000 viewers, the GoDaddy.com Bowl drew 1,944,000 viewers, and the Independence Bowl drew 1,741,000 viewers.

The highest rated non FBS game on the ESPN networks was GSU/ODU which drew 1,556,000 viewers, so the answer is anywhere from 200k to a 1.1 million.

Also, the SunBelt has games televised by ESPN during the week during the regular season which have drawn between 1 and 2.2 millions viewers.....AND the OOC games are televised by other networks- like MTSU's *** kicking of GA Tech this past year on RayCom, which was the ACC GOTW. You can't get that in FCS...

One other thing... who said the SunBelt is GSU's final destination? UCF, for example, has gone from 1-A independent to the MAC to C-USA and are now going to the Big East- all since the mid 90's.

The butt hurt in the post quoted above is palpable.

[MplsBison]

Jealous that the Bison didn't get the 'call up' to the 'majors' too?

Absolutely I'm jealous.

NDSU has won back-to-back FCS national championships and will be the pre-season favorite to win three in a row (if that comes to fruition, no one can know...but they have a reasonable chance). All this from the first season of FCS eligibility five years ago in 2008, in which they were also the pre-season favorites to win the MVFC after coming off consecutive 10-1 seasons. And in both of those seasons they would've/should've been in the FCS playoffs and would've competed well for the championship again. There were no players on either of those teams that would've been ineligible per DI rules...but alas, there was never going to be any chance to circumvent the five year probation while DII players filtered off the roster.

Pretty much already done it all in FCS and more or less still an afterthought in the realm of college football. Certainly no more acknowledged than Mount Union. No FCS team will ever be able to break that barrier if App St couldn't after three in a row.


That's why the time is utterly now - should the opportunity arise - to move to FBS for NDSU. It could be a once in a generation opportunity, certainly at least 12 years wait if they miss the ship this time.

Facts are facts.

[MplsBison]

Not a single FCS team of the 31 that have moved to low-FBS is in a "Big 5/BCS" conference.

Not a single FCS team of the 31 that have moved to low-FBS is getting $20 million a year in TV money.

That should underscore how high-risk it is. Even the most successful move-up ever, Boise State, isn't a member of the club.

Not a single FCS team of the 31 that have moved to FBS has dropped football.

How, in the world, does that not completely nullify any argument you have about "risk".

[blueballs]

Absolutely I'm jealous.

NDSU has won back-to-back FCS national championships and will be the pre-season favorite to win three in a row (if that comes to fruition, no one can know...but they have a reasonable chance). All this from the first season of FCS eligibility five years ago in 2008, in which they were also the pre-season favorites to win the MVFC after coming off consecutive 10-1 seasons. And in both of those seasons they would've/should've been in the FCS playoffs and would've competed well for the championship again. There were no players on either of those teams that would've been ineligible per DI rules...but alas, there was never going to be any chance to circumvent the five year probation while DII players filtered off the roster.

Pretty much already done it all in FCS and more or less still an afterthought in the realm of college football. Certainly no more acknowledged than Mount Union. No FCS team will ever be able to break that barrier if App St couldn't after three in a row.


That's why the time is utterly now - should the opportunity arise - to move to FBS for NDSU. It could be a once in a generation opportunity, certainly at least 12 years wait if they miss the ship this time.

Facts are facts.

A lot of the GSU folks will argue that GSU missed a great opportunity to move up in the early 1990's and again in the early 2000's. In each case the program stagnated and took the better part of a decade to rebuild momentum so there is a lot of truth in the above post.

[MplsBison]

I think a lot of folks here, as well as the UD AD, are missing the point of the move.

Go back and watch the video GSU's President Keel put out, which was posted on this forum two weeks ago. The premise of the move is that athletics serve as the "front porch of the university," and athletics can be used as a vehicle for expanding the university's profile from that of a regional university to a national research university. Look no farther than FL Gulf Coast in the past two weeks for a vivid example of a sports team raising the proifile of a university.

That point was lost on GSU's previous president and AD and it seems to be lost on UD's AD.

Was 1-AA/FCS good to Georgia Southern? Hell yes! Georgia Southern went from a teachers college with an enrollment of about 5500 in the early 80's to a regional university with an enrollment in excess of 20k and a large part of the growth goes back to Dale Lick's vision and Erk Russell's making that vision a reality.

Now it is time for the next step, which is to raise GSU's profile as an institution to the next level. Athletics is a big part of that- not the only part but a big part. That's why GSU is doing what they're doing and it is the right decision when viewed in the big picture of what is right for the university as a whole and its stated mission of becoming a national research university.

Awesome post! And 100%, dead on correct.

It's about brand growth. Simple as that. FCS places a very real, very unbreakable ceiling on any university with a football program.

Like it or not, the stature of that program is used as a measurement of the university's overall stature. It's time for some of the bigger, regional (in large states) or flagship (in small states) public universities to take that next step in brand growth!

[MplsBison]

A lot of the GSU folks will argue that GSU missed a great opportunity to move up in the early 1990's and again in the early 2000's. In each case the program stagnated and took the better part of a decade to rebuild momentum so there is a lot of truth in the above post.

Yes. And how could we dare ignore the history that GSU defined in winning their I-AA championships??

The same *WILL* happen to NDSU if it chooses to ignore that history and believe that it simple "stay the course" in FCS.

[MplsBison]

^^That point isn't lost on anyone.

I just think your 'front porch' has zero curb appeal. Which of the existing Sun Belch schools is a 'National research University'?

How many incremental eye balls watched the 2 Sun Belch toilet bowl games versus the FCS title Game?

Winning a bowl game of Sun Belt v MAC (which I assume you consider to be the lowest of the low) is still on ESPN, still gets more attendance, still gets watched by more people, is on ESPN (instead of ESPN2), etc.

Pretty much blows your wrong-headed pride out of the water....

[MplsBison]

I think for Georgia Southern the "front porch" factor is legitimate. For a school like Delaware, not so much, and for a school like W&M there is no need. We are already a top ranked national research university, and while athletics can help raise the schools profile, the impact has to be viewed in context. For Delaware I just don't see a move to a league like the Sunbelt as contributing anything to the university. They are currently aligned with like minded institutions in the CAA, and are better served by expanding those associations. Bring Stony Brook and Albany in as all-sport members, and convince JMU they're better off staying. Invest in improved facilities, and basketball recruiting. Those are my agendas.

W&M a top ranked research university??? Please tell me you're joking. $51 million in research expenditures in FY2009, which ranked them #175. (I apologize, that that's STILL the latest NSF numbers. They changed the survey and FY11 data should be coming...soon I hope)

I'm sure you're a top ranked liberal arts school by many rankings, etc. Not trying to knock your school....but don't try to pass yourself off as a top research school.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What are the potential lost earnings if all of the FBS decides that they will no longer play FCS level programs?

The only way this happens is if the top 5 conferences leave the NCAA altogether, which will not happen.

If it doesn't, from the perspective of the true FBS moneymakers, they can get 3 FCS home games for less than the price of a 2-for-1 home situation from a quasi-FBS school, and to them a win over Louisiana-Lafayette and Nicholls State is the exact same. Those conferences who make the foolish move to not schedule FCS schools will soon see the error of their ways and within some period of time, 1 years, maybe 5, they'll be scheduling them again.

[MplsBison]

The only way this happens is if the top 5 conferences leave the NCAA altogether, which will not happen.

If it doesn't, from the perspective of the true FBS moneymakers, they can get 3 FCS home games for less than the price of a 2-for-1 home situation from a quasi-FBS school, and to them a win over Louisiana-Lafayette and Nicholls State is the exact same. Those conferences who make the foolish move to not schedule FCS schools will soon see the error of their ways and within some period of time, 1 years, maybe 5, they'll be scheduling them again.

Nope. Not the same thing, not in the eyes of the playoff selection committee. Because they're not the same thing.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Yes. And how could we dare ignore the history that GSU defined in winning their I-AA championships??

The same *WILL* happen to NDSU if it chooses to ignore that history and believe that it simple "stay the course" in FCS.

I think I've found a solution. You should really go be a Georgia Southern fan.

I think everyone would be a lot happier.

[SU DOG]

It is strange to me how anyone outside of the schools involved can predetermine that the moves of GSU and App State are good OR bad. Personally I have seen the progress that Troy has made since moving up, and it has been nothing short of phenomenal. Troy has a football stadium and new basketball arena that are simply breathtaking. Their fans, that I know of, have great times in New Orleans when the Trojans play in the bowl there. You would be hard pressed to find a Troy person who would now even consider FCS. This is not to say that it has worked this well for everyone, but I have seen this case first-hand. Personally(again), I hate to see these universities leave the SoCon. It was such a "big-time" feel at Boone and at Statesboro. I want to wish each one good luck with their decision, and hope the SoCon chooses well and remains a strong FCS conference.

[Laker]

I remember a LOT of South Dakota State people who were against moving to FCS. Lately I haven't heard even one person who said that it was a mistake. Schools can make their own decisions- if they work, fine, if they don't life has no guarantees.

[Saint3333]

Classy post of the week to you SU.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

What is the status of Arkansas State and ULL? Are they actively trying to leave?

I know one of the Sun Belt coaches made a comment regarding the direction the SBC was headed. It didn't appear he was favoring the conference becoming a refuge for FCS move-ups.

[GlassOnion]

Not a single FCS team of the 31 that have moved to low-FBS is in a "Big 5/BCS" conference.

Not a single FCS team of the 31 that have moved to low-FBS is getting $20 million a year in TV money.

That should underscore how high-risk it is. Even the most successful move-up ever, Boise State, isn't a member of the club.

Yet not a single team wants to win FCS championships.

Funny how that works isnt it?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yet not a single team wants to win FCS championships.

Funny how that works isnt it?

Yes, its funny how no AD wants to vote themselves a smaller salary.

And its funny how these ADs manage to convince fans that being unable to afford trips to conference games that provide them said bonuses are in the fans' best interest.

[GlassOnion]

Yes, its funny how no AD wants to vote themselves a smaller salary.

And its funny how these ADs manage to convince fans that being unable to afford trips to conference games that provide them said bonuses are in the fans' best interest.

Ahh, so its the money grubbing ADs is it?

31 ADs are misleading the masses, lining their own pockets, unchecked.

xcrazyx

[MplsBison]

It is strange to me how anyone outside of the schools involved can predetermine that the moves of GSU and App State are good OR bad. Personally I have seen the progress that Troy has made since moving up, and it has been nothing short of phenomenal. Troy has a football stadium and new basketball arena that are simply breathtaking. Their fans, that I know of, have great times in New Orleans when the Trojans play in the bowl there. You would be hard pressed to find a Troy person who would now even consider FCS. This is not to say that it has worked this well for everyone, but I have seen this case first-hand. Personally(again), I hate to see these universities leave the SoCon. It was such a "big-time" feel at Boone and at Statesboro. I want to wish each one good luck with their decision, and hope the SoCon chooses well and remains a strong FCS conference.

Awesome post! Thanks for sharing. It's not often you'll find AGS posters that aren't fans of the school moving up who aren't being nasty trying to rip down at the departing. Refreshing positivity.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Awesome post! Thanks for sharing. It's not often you'll find AGS posters that aren't fans of the school moving up who aren't being nasty trying to rip down at the departing. Refreshing positivity.

I think what some are missing is there's concern within the SBC. There seems to be a few schools that are not fully on-board with the direction the league is headed.

[GlassOnion]

I think what some are missing is there's concern within the SBC. There seems to be a few schools that are not fully on-board with the direction the league is headed.

Which is completely NOT the case with the SOCON. xthumbsupx

[Mountaineer]

I want to wish each one good luck with their decision, and hope the SoCon chooses well and remains a strong FCS conference.

xthumbsupx

Thanks Dog. It is nice to see a positive comment after having to endure the persistent grousing by two Lehigh fans with an axe to grind (not sure why as clearly neither understands North Carolina or App State).

I think I'll adopt Samford as my SoCon school of choice from here on out. :D

[MplsBison]

Ahh, so its the money grubbing ADs is it?

31 ADs are misleading the masses, lining their own pockets, unchecked.

xcrazyx
You know LFN's stated agenda is to force all non-BCS conference teams down to FCS, right? It hasn't worked out very well for him. Idaho has an FBS invite and E Michigan has yet to be forced down by the NCAA.

[Mountaineer]

I think what some are missing is there's concern within the SBC. There seems to be a few schools that are not fully on-board with the direction the league is headed.

The head coach from ULL made a comment. Big deal. I don't think anyone has really taken offense. Neither the Cajuns or Arkansas State are going anywhere, and we'll get a chance to see how things start shaking out on the field next year.

[MplsBison]

I think what some are missing is there's concern within the SBC. There seems to be a few schools that are not fully on-board with the direction the league is headed.

But as I correctly pointed out, unless there are more spots created above the SB - there's nowhere for those schools to go.

[Tribe4SF]

W&M a top ranked research university??? Please tell me you're joking. $51 million in research expenditures in FY2009, which ranked them #175. (I apologize, that that's STILL the latest NSF numbers. They changed the survey and FY11 data should be coming...soon I hope)

I'm sure you're a top ranked liberal arts school by many rankings, etc. Not trying to knock your school....but don't try to pass yourself off as a top research school.

We're small, but highly respected.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+4

[IBleedYellow]

What I am noticing are the Lehighs of the FCS continue to berate the App States and GSUs. It's almost like the feel that their "amazing" academics should get them a FBS invite. This is honestly how I am reading EVERY one of the LFN and Go Lehigh posts right now.

So many of you don't realize that college football as a whole right now is in turmoil. FCS and FBS included. If App and GSU athletic departments find that going FBS is the best interest for the school, then good for them. I wish we could be in that same boat, but I doubt it will happen soon due to our location.

If you honestly never see yourself moving up and improving your program, you should just drop it now. To the Lehigh posters. Your sh5t does in fact stink. Just because you graduated from the amazing Lehigh means jack to me and probably most people of this world. Get over yourselves.

Nexus 4

[GlassOnion]

You know LFN's stated agenda is to force all non-BCS conference teams down to FCS, right? It hasn't worked out very well for him. Idaho has an FBS invite and E Michigan has yet to be forced down by the NCAA.

Must have missed it. Sorry for him though, not one program, even when faced with floating alone as an FBS Indy, wants to drop to FCS.

[Mountaineer]

http://i.imgur.com/6rAb3E4.jpg

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Must have missed it. Sorry for him though, not one program, even when faced with floating alone as an FBS Indy, wants to drop to FCS.

Because they're not voting a pay cut for themselves.

[IBleedYellow]

http://i.imgur.com/6rAb3E4.jpg


The epicness.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I don't understand how I keep getting thrown into this. All of this will impact Temple and the American 12 which is why I'm interested. I'm not looking it at from a FCS perspective.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't understand how I keep getting thrown into this. All of this will impact Temple and the American 12 which is why I'm interested. I'm not looking it at from a FCS perspective.

You must have missed the memo where any opinion contrary to sheer exuberance in App State moving up has to be attacked because any such display of facts to support the contrary position hurts their precious feelings.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You must have missed the memo where any opinion contrary to sheer exuberance in App State moving up has to be attacked because any such display of facts to support the contrary position hurts their precious feelings.

I think some of it has to do with their exuberance being severely tempered by the SBC folks so they're coming over here to feel better about themselves.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think some of it has to do with their exuberance being severely tempered by the SBC folks so they're coming over here to feel better about themselves.

I did find it weird that the big, bad new kings of the Sun Belt are still slumming it now with us FCS folk.

[IBleedYellow]

I did find it weird that the big, bad new kings of the Sun Belt are still slumming it now with us FCS folk.

You mean the two teams that have played in the FCS for 25+ years and play one more season against teams from this division? Yeah, it is so weird.

Nexus 4

[GlassOnion]

If this is a fair representation of what you get at Lehigh, Im less than impressed.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If this is a fair representation of what you get at Lehigh, Im less than impressed.

Just like you are finding out that not many folks are impressed with your moral victory against ECU or GSU's vaunted triple-option on the SBC board?

You've already antagonized a few folks over there....

[GlassOnion]

Just like you are finding out that not many folks are impressed with your moral victory against ECU or GSU's vaunted triple-option on the SBC board?

You've already antagonized a few folks over there....

WTH are you talking about?

There are Troy, Marshall and WKU fans that were agreeing with me in that ONE thread. A discussion is hardly antagonism. A FB discussion on a FB board, go figure.

You know FCS sucks when you spend all your time talking about a team that is leaving, and trolling their future conference board. Pity your not that interested in the FCS.

Nor am I responsible, or have I even taken part in, the GSU thread.

You spend all this time defending the premise that the Sun Belt isnt a step up, and then call me out for a thread in which we we arguing the main difference in FCS/FBS is depth, you big hypocrite.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

WTH are you talking about?

There are Troy, Marshall and WKU fans that were agreeing with me in that ONE thread. A discussion is hardly antagonism. A FB discussion on a FB board, go figure.

You know FCS sucks when you spend all your time talking about a team that is leaving, and trolling their future conference board. Pity your not that interested in the FCS.

Nor am I responsible, or have I even taken part in, the GSU thread.

You spend all this time defending the premise that the Sun Belt isnt a step up, and then call me out for a thread in which we we arguing the main difference in FCS/FBS is depth, you big hypocrite.

LOL whatever man...

Why do you keep being such an ***, FCS sucks? You're the one with the bitter attitude.....

I've been on those boards for years...welcome to the world of FBS....

[PhillyApp1]

What I am noticing are the Lehighs of the FCS continue to berate the App States and GSUs. It's almost like the feel that their "amazing" academics should get them a FBS invite. This is honestly how I am reading EVERY one of the LFN and Go Lehigh posts right now.

So many of you don't realize that college football as a whole right now is in turmoil. FCS and FBS included. If App and GSU athletic departments find that going FBS is the best interest for the school, then good for them. I wish we could be in that same boat, but I doubt it will happen soon due to our location.

If you honestly never see yourself moving up and improving your program, you should just drop it now. To the Lehigh posters. Your sh5t does in fact stink. Just because you graduated from the amazing Lehigh means jack to me and probably most people of this world. Get over yourselves.

Nexus 4

I still do NOT have confirmation either Lehigh fans have graduated from Lehigh.
As i have stated before their uneducated writings do NOT stand up to ANY Lehigh graduates I know (some are relatives) and I personally have met very few Temple grads that i didn't like...almost went to Temple and I know Mr. Liacouras personally.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I still do NOT have confirmation either Lehigh fans have graduated from Lehigh.
As i have stated before their uneducated writings do NOT stand up to ANY Lehigh graduates I know (some are relatives) and I personally have met very few Temple grads that i didn't like...almost went to Temple and I know Mr. Liacouras personally.

You mean the same Mr. Liacouras that my wife's cousin?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I still do NOT have confirmation either Lehigh fans have graduated from Lehigh.
As i have stated before their uneducated writings do NOT stand up to ANY Lehigh graduates I know (some are relatives) and I personally have met very few Temple grads that i didn't like...almost went to Temple and I know Mr. Liacouras personally.

What uneducated comments have I made? Please inform me....

[PhillyApp1]

You mean the same Mr. Liacouras that my wife's cousin?

Yes, maybe ...please go visit him and wish him well from me....the difference in this conversation is you seem to have opions about APP with NO close knowledge of APP, but i have knowledge of Delaware and Villanova..Temple & Lehigh.
I have lived in Philly and went to college in philly...still visit 10 times a year so have knowledge of things.
I am also an APP State season ticket holder who knows APP well.
So All i am asking is for you to do some research about APP before you have an educated opinion.

[PhillyApp1]

What uneducated comments have I made? Please inform me....

Tell me how educated you are about Southern College Football?
How games have you gone to in the Southern conference?
How many people do you know involved in southern football?

because you are writing about these schools as if you know something other than AGS written comments

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Tell me how educated you are about Southern College Football?
How games have you gone to in the Southern conference?
How many people do you know involved in southern football?

because you are writing about these schools as if you know something other than AGS written comments

I don't get the point of this? So someone from the SEC can't comment on the Big 12? SoCon fans can't comment about the MVFC? American 12 fans/alums can't comment on the SBC? If you follow FBS/FCS football long enough you become pretty well educated. I'm pretty well versed in the MAC, SBC and CUSA from years of reading and research. If I want to talk Big Sky football I'll go right to the MSU coach. I talk with him on a regular basis. He's the former President of the American Football Coaches Association. Lots of good info there....

BTW, Boone, NC is hardly the deep south of college football. In fact, if you told LSU or Alabama that UNC or NC State is true Southern Football the'd laugh at ya. You know that as well as I do.

[PhillyApp1]

My whole points are that the UD AD knows nothing about APP, like the Leigh fans writing on AGS.
And i believe his love for Boston College is clouding his opinion. Even speaks so lowly of Delaware.

By the way ask Wake Forest coach Jim Grobe why he would not play APP ....anwser is " the risk of losing to APP was not worth the reward of beating APP"
Why??? because APP beat Wake often "fact"
So, when i personally asked a UNC Chapel Hill senior coach why they wouldn't play APP ... the answer was very similar

If we stay in FCS , App will always be considered Little Leaguer. Its tim to move on...and i will always love FCS Football.

[PhillyApp1]

I don't get the point of this? So someone from the SEC can't comment on the Big 12? SoCon fans can't comment about the MVFC? If you follow FBS/FCS football long enough you become pretty well educated. I'm pretty well versed in the MAC, SBC and CUSA from years of reading and research. If I want to talk Big Sky football I'll go right to the MSU coach. I talk with him on a regular basis.

BTW, Boone, NC is hardly the deep south of college football.

2 points
1- know, but knowing someone or something about Southern football would make a more "educated" opinion
2- I never said DEEP south just Southern


there were comments about politics and playing at BOA stadium... life in the south is different, that is a fact, i am living it and devalues comments from lehigh fan

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

2 points
1- know, but knowing someone or something about Southern football would make a more "educated" opinion
2- I never said DEEP south just Southern


there were comments about politics and playing at BOA stadium... life in the south is different, that is a fact, i am living it and devalues comments from lehigh fan

There are politics involved in NC as well. Look at what happened to get UNC and ECU to play.

[PhillyApp1]

I don't get the point of this? So someone from the SEC can't comment on the Big 12? SoCon fans can't comment about the MVFC? American 12 fans/alums can't comment on the SBC? If you follow FBS/FCS football long enough you become pretty well educated. I'm pretty well versed in the MAC, SBC and CUSA from years of reading and research. If I want to talk Big Sky football I'll go right to the MSU coach. I talk with him on a regular basis. He's the former President of the American Football Coaches Association. Lots of good info there....

BTW, Boone, NC is hardly the deep south of college football. In fact, if you told LSU or Alabama that UNC or NC State is true Southern Football the'd laugh at ya. You know that as well as I do.

You still don't get it, if i made a statement about Temple and you knew my opinion was not well educated ( with good communication with people involved) you might tell me my opinion was not educated to the topic AND i would agree.
SO, APP and Ga Southern fans who are well educated (close to this situation)are telling you to rethink your opinion as they know what is happening in their environment/history.

I am trying to be civil and apologize for past frustration with you and LFN but it can get old....lol

[IBleedYellow]

You still don't get it, if i made a statement about Temple and you knew my opinion was not well educated ( with good communication with people involved) you might tell me my opinion was not educated to the topic AND i would agree.
SO, APP and Ga Southern fans who are well educated (close to this situation)are telling you to rethink your opinion as they know what is happening in their environment/history.

I am trying to be civil and apologize for past frustration with you and LFN but it can get old....lol

But you don't get it. They cheer for the elite Lehigh, they are of a more superior mind than we are. Lehigh knows all. We are just dumb Southern or Northerners compared to them.

Nexus 4

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You still don't get it, if i made a statement about Temple and you knew my opinion was not well educated ( with good communication with people involved) you might tell me my opinion was not educated to the topic AND i would agree.
SO, APP and Ga Southern fans who are well educated (close to this situation)are telling you to rethink your opinion as they know what is happening in their environment/history.

I am trying to be civil and apologize for past frustration with you and LFN but it can get old....lol

I'm still trying to figure out what opinion or comment I made that is so off base?

[PhillyApp1]

But you don't get it. They cheer for the elite Lehigh, they are of a more superior mind than we are. Lehigh knows all. We are just dumb Southern or Northerners compared to them.

Nexus 4

LMAO...No, you don't get it, Lehigh is a very good school...Elite is ???...and what i am saying is the Lehigh grads i know write more educated...AND they still have not confirmed that they graduated from Lehigh, actually Temple i think graduated from Temple ( i have family that graduated from both Lehigh & Temple)...LFN has not admitted a Lehigh graduation yet...he may be just a fan..

[PhillyApp1]

I'm still trying to figure out what opinion or comment I made that is so off base?

Damm, now i have to go back to the beginning and count.....i'll get back to you ;-)

[IBleedYellow]

LMAO...No, you don't get it, Lehigh is a very good school...Elite is ???...and what i am saying is the Lehigh grads i know write more educated...AND they still have not confirmed that they graduated from Lehigh, actually Temple i think graduated from Temple ( i have family that graduated from both Lehigh & Temple)...LFN has not admitted a Lehigh graduation yet...he may be just a fan..


I'm on your side here. These two Lehigh fans keep talking like because where they are from their opinion is the top and everyone else is below them. I'm sick of watching them turn EVERY FBS conversation into a "My numbers are better than yours" argument.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Damm, now i have to go back to the beginning and count.....i'll get back to you ;-)

Please do...I think you might be surprised.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'm on your side here. These two Lehigh fans keep talking like because where they are from their opinion is the top and everyone else is below them. I'm sick of watching them turn EVERY FBS conversation into a "My numbers are better than yours" argument.

I am a graduate of Temple University, a FBS school. Nothing I have said has anything to do with FCS.

I still can't figure out how you don't know that I'm not a Lehigh alum. It clearly says what my affiliation is in my sig.

"Temple alum by choice, Lehigh sports fan by blood"

[asumike83]

How many incremental eye balls watched the 2 Sun Belch toilet bowl games versus the FCS title Game?

To answer your question, here is the data.

FCS National Championship: 0.7 Rating, 1.1M viewers

Independence Bowl (Ohio/ULM): 1.3 Rating, 1.7M viewers
GoDaddy Bowl (Ark St./Kent St.): 1.3 Rating, 1.9M viewers
New Orleans Bowl (ULL/ECU): 1.8 Rating, 2.6M viewers
Little Ceasars Bowl (WKU/Central Mich.): 1.8 Rating, 2.6M viewers

As a whole, 7.7 million more people saw the 4 Sun Belt bowl games. Individually, they were seen by an average of 2.2M/game, twice as many as the FCS title game.

[IBleedYellow]

I am a graduate of Temple University, a FBS school. Nothing I have said has anything to do with FCS.

I still can't figure out how you don't know that I'm not a Lehigh alum. It clearly says what my affiliation is in my sig.

"Temple alum by choice, Lehigh sports fan by blood"


You, I've said Fans.

That's not my beef. My beef is you guys keep talking about App State and GSU's programs like you know them as much as your hand. It's just not a good argument.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You, I've said Fans.

That's not my beef. My beef is you guys keep talking about App State and GSU's programs like you know them as much as your hand. It's just not a good argument.

My comments have been in regard to what it's like being in the bottom few FBS conferences. I also commented on Charlotte because they have been our A10 brethren forever. I really think you guys have something out for LFN and are just attacking anything associated with Lehigh, like me.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

To answer your question, here is the data.

FCS National Championship: 0.7 Rating, 1.1M viewers

Independence Bowl (Ohio/ULM): 1.3 Rating, 1.7M viewers
GoDaddy Bowl (Ark St./Kent St.): 1.3 Rating, 1.9M viewers
New Orleans Bowl (ULL/ECU): 1.8 Rating, 2.6M viewers
Little Ceasars Bowl (WKU/Central Mich.): 1.8 Rating, 2.6M viewers

As a whole, 7.7 million more people saw the 4 Sun Belt bowl games. Individually, they were seen by an average of 2.2M/game, twice as many as the FCS title game.

This isn't a loaded question:

What has happened to the FCS Nielsen number since the game moved from night to day?

I assume all these Sun Belt games were played at night, no?

[FargoBison]

Awesome post! And 100%, dead on correct.

It's about brand growth. Simple as that. FCS places a very real, very unbreakable ceiling on any university with a football program.

Like it or not, the stature of that program is used as a measurement of the university's overall stature. It's time for some of the bigger, regional (in large states) or flagship (in small states) public universities to take that next step in brand growth!

Agreed. I think it is time for NDSU to move up as well.

You have been spot pretty spot on as far as this thread is concerned. I at one time bashed schools for moving up but not anymore, App State and GSU did what is best for their programs. They can compete on that level and if this works out for them it could mean a great deal to their respective universities.

[Apphole]

To answer your question, here is the data.

FCS National Championship: 0.7 Rating, 1.1M viewers

Independence Bowl (Ohio/ULM): 1.3 Rating, 1.7M viewers
GoDaddy Bowl (Ark St./Kent St.): 1.3 Rating, 1.9M viewers
New Orleans Bowl (ULL/ECU): 1.8 Rating, 2.6M viewers
Little Ceasars Bowl (WKU/Central Mich.): 1.8 Rating, 2.6M viewers

As a whole, 7.7 million more people saw the 4 Sun Belt bowl games. Individually, they were seen by an average of 2.2M/game, twice as many as the FCS title game.
This response is a message board pimp slap. Somebody get that poor kid some ice.

ASUMike: Keeping the pimp hand strong since 1983.

[superman7515]

If I knew people would get this mad at Lehigh for something Delaware did, I would have slapped a baby before that last Delaware/Lehigh football game.

[Saint3333]

Wonder what his response will be if JMU leaves?

If that happens the SoCon should pounce on William and Mary, Richmond (football only), UNCW, and ask CofC back.

That would be a solid conference.

[IBleedYellow]

If I knew people would get this mad at Lehigh for something Delaware did, I would have slapped a baby before that last Delaware/Lehigh football game.

Lmfao.

Nexus 4

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If I knew people would get this mad at Lehigh for something Delaware did, I would have slapped a baby before that last Delaware/Lehigh football game.

And Temple too, i'm like the daily double....all you need is a Nova guy to jump in and you've hit the UD trifecta

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LMAO...No, you don't get it, Lehigh is a very good school...Elite is ???...and what i am saying is the Lehigh grads i know write more educated...AND they still have not confirmed that they graduated from Lehigh, actually Temple i think graduated from Temple ( i have family that graduated from both Lehigh & Temple)...LFN has not admitted a Lehigh graduation yet...he may be just a fan..

Let's see.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com
http://www.college-sports-journal.com

I don't need to justify myself to anyone, not least a guy with 82 AGS posts that claims to be some sort of expert on "southern" and "Philly" football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You, I've said Fans.

That's not my beef. My beef is you guys keep talking about App State and GSU's programs like you know them as much as your hand. It's just not a good argument.

Gee, what would a MAC guy know about non-BCS FBS ball, who's actually watched Sun Belt games in person?

[henfan]

Wonder what his response will be if JMU leaves?

If that happens the SoCon should pounce on William and Mary, Richmond (football only), UNCW, and ask CofC back.

That would be a solid conference.

Spot on. Ziady & UD don't appear to have a plan. They appear willing to sit on their thumbs & let others around them determine their options. Backhanded swipes at ASU & GSU are insulting and an unfortunate sign of the arrogance that's eminated from UD BOT, CEO's & AD's for the last 3 decades. Now you all are aware of what we've been dealing with.

[Saint3333]

I've been a proponent for a conference with UD, JMU, and App for over five years now. I wish you guys the best, but the crest of ignorance/arrogance is blinding your leaders.

[eaglewraith]

This isn't a loaded question:

What has happened to the FCS Nielsen number since the game moved from night to day?

I assume all these Sun Belt games were played at night, no?

Well this isn't an answer to your question but the highest rated FCS game this year was Ga Southern/ODU and it had ~1.5 million viewers. This was the division's most storied team versus a successful new kid in a big media market that has an impressive fan following already. It was aired in the 12pm time slot on ESPN with no other football games on. This is the best situation you can hope for as there's no competition. This was on the day of the Heisman presentation, and was followed by the Army/Navy game.

The highest rated FCS game of all time goes to App/Montana in 2009 which drew around 1.9 million viewers. This game was played on the same day as the Heisman ceremony, but was put as the lead-in for the Heisman which put a lot more eyeballs on it.

Notice these games came with no other competition. It doesn't matter what time you put the FCS games, if they have direct competition from a bowl game, the ratings are going to be lower. Promotion/marketing for FCS games is little to none and doesn't compete with the hype ESPN and college football in general puts on bowl season.

[asumike83]

This isn't a loaded question:

What has happened to the FCS Nielsen number since the game moved from night to day?

I assume all these Sun Belt games were played at night, no?

The FCS title game was played at 1PM. ECU/ULL was played at noon, Ohio/ULM at 2PM. WKU/Central Mich. was 7:30PM and Ark St./Kent St. was at 9:00PM. The two day games averaged 2.15M viewers, the two night games averaged 2.25M viewers, both about twice the number of the FCS title game.

I do not have the prior FCS title games' Nielsen numbers, although I'd assume they were a bit higher. However, the fact that the national championship was moved back to 1PM and aired on ESPN2 simultaneously with the BBVA Compass Bowl on ESPN (which had 2.6M viewers) is as telling as any TV numbers about how little the media cares to promote the FCS brand of football.

There are very valid points to be made about remaining FCS, namely tighter geography and a playoff system. TV exposure is just not one of them.

Moving from FCS to FBS football is a calculated risk but I think Appalachian made the right decision for the university. Only time will tell whether it ends up paying off.

[GannonFan]

Spot on. Ziady & UD don't appear to have a plan. They appear willing to sit on their thumbs & let others around them determine their options. Backhanded swipes at ASU & GSU are insulting and an unfortunate sign of the arrogance that's eminated from UD BOT, CEO's & AD's for the last 3 decades. Now you all are aware of what we've been dealing with.


I agree with this to a point. The Sun Belt would never be a potential destination for UD - doesn't work from a geographic standpoint in the least so it's a non-starter there. And let's be honest, it probably is the bottom rung of the FBS world. Ziady is right to an extent there, and many fans would've agreed with him before their schools decided to join it - it's only now that their school's are going to the Sun Belt that they are excited about it.

But where Ziady is naive and wrong is that 1) he doesn't seem to have an vision for what UD will be in the short and long term and where they have to be to enable that and 2) that any moves now would necessarily be final moves. I don't think much of the Sun Belt, but maybe Appy and GSU will be in a better position later because of this move now. So when a better conference solution pops up they will already have done a lot of the work to get ready for that.

I too get the idea that Ziady is just willing to let things happen around them and then fall into whatever solution ends up being the best then rather than have an idea of where they want to go and actively pursuing it. Not very inspiring.

[Apps03]

I agree with this to a point. The Sun Belt would never be a potential destination for UD - doesn't work from a geographic standpoint in the least so it's a non-starter there. And let's be honest, it probably is the bottom rung of the FBS world. Ziady is right to an extent there, and many fans would've agreed with him before their schools decided to join it - it's only now that their school's are going to the Sun Belt that they are excited about it.

But where Ziady is naive and wrong is that 1) he doesn't seem to have an vision for what UD will be in the short and long term and where they have to be to enable that and 2) that any moves now would necessarily be final moves. I don't think much of the Sun Belt, but maybe Appy and GSU will be in a better position later because of this move now. So when a better conference solution pops up they will already have done a lot of the work to get ready for that.
I too get the idea that Ziady is just willing to let things happen around them and then fall into whatever solution ends up being the best then rather than have an idea of where they want to go and actively pursuing it. Not very inspiring.

This. I'm no more excited to be playing ULL or Troy than I was with Furman or Wofford. Although the possibility (LFN, notice I said possibility) of getting a few more local FBS games on the schedule is appealing as well. I agree that it puts us in a better position should this always fluid college football world continue to change. As for the point of the thread, the comments just show short-sightedness on his part. I don't think it was meant as putdown to App or GSU.

[MplsBison]

Well this isn't an answer to your question but the highest rated FCS game this year was Ga Southern/ODU and it had ~1.5 million viewers. This was the division's most storied team versus a successful new kid in a big media market that has an impressive fan following already. It was aired in the 12pm time slot on ESPN with no other football games on. This is the best situation you can hope for as there's no competition. This was on the day of the Heisman presentation, and was followed by the Army/Navy game.

The highest rated FCS game of all time goes to App/Montana in 2009 which drew around 1.9 million viewers. This game was played on the same day as the Heisman ceremony, but was put as the lead-in for the Heisman which put a lot more eyeballs on it.

Notice these games came with no other competition. It doesn't matter what time you put the FCS games, if they have direct competition from a bowl game, the ratings are going to be lower. Promotion/marketing for FCS games is little to none and doesn't compete with the hype ESPN and college football in general puts on bowl season.

Absolutely correct.

FCS national championship means the same thing to ESPN and the rest of the national college football media as the DII and DIII championship games.

NDSU is acknowledged and marketed the same as Mount Union.


Bowl Season is a HUGE deal, on the other hand. Sure, the SB v. MAC games are generally just "appetizers" for the real bowls, but they still get more attention than the *championship* for our sub-division.

[PaladinFan]

I agree with this to a point. The Sun Belt would never be a potential destination for UD - doesn't work from a geographic standpoint in the least so it's a non-starter there. And let's be honest, it probably is the bottom rung of the FBS world. Ziady is right to an extent there, and many fans would've agreed with him before their schools decided to join it - it's only now that their school's are going to the Sun Belt that they are excited about it.

But where Ziady is naive and wrong is that 1) he doesn't seem to have an vision for what UD will be in the short and long term and where they have to be to enable that and 2) that any moves now would necessarily be final moves. I don't think much of the Sun Belt, but maybe Appy and GSU will be in a better position later because of this move now. So when a better conference solution pops up they will already have done a lot of the work to get ready for that.

I too get the idea that Ziady is just willing to let things happen around them and then fall into whatever solution ends up being the best then rather than have an idea of where they want to go and actively pursuing it. Not very inspiring.

The Sun Belt does not have a "geography." I think there is some attempt on their part to carve out a second tier niche in the deep south, but at this point in their history the Sun Belt has been kind of a mishmash of teams from wherever. Not many conferences can pull off having Idaho, Louisiana Tech, and Florida International in the conference and talk about their "geography."

[MplsBison]

The FCS title game was played at 1PM. ECU/ULL was played at noon, Ohio/ULM at 2PM. WKU/Central Mich. was 7:30PM and Ark St./Kent St. was at 9:00PM. The two day games averaged 2.15M viewers, the two night games averaged 2.25M viewers, both about twice the number of the FCS title game.

I do not have the prior FCS title games' Nielsen numbers, although I'd assume they were a bit higher. However, the fact that the national championship was moved back to 1PM and aired on ESPN2 simultaneously with the BBVA Compass Bowl on ESPN (which had 2.6M viewers) is as telling as any TV numbers about how little the media cares to promote the FCS brand of football.

There are very valid points to be made about remaining FCS, namely tighter geography and a playoff system. TV exposure is just not one of them.

Moving from FCS to FBS football is a calculated risk but I think Appalachian made the right decision for the university. Only time will tell whether it ends up paying off.

Absolutely correct.

The Pitt v Ole Miss bowl game was much more important to the media than the FCS championship. I even thought that when I was watching the FCS game back then.


FCS is just very expensive DII or DIII football. That's all it is except to fans of the teams comprising the sub-division. That's all it can be.

[GannonFan]

The Sun Belt does not have a "geography." I think there is some attempt on their part to carve out a second tier niche in the deep south, but at this point in their history the Sun Belt has been kind of a mishmash of teams from wherever. Not many conferences can pull off having Idaho, Louisiana Tech, and Florida International in the conference and talk about their "geography."

I wasn't referring to the past, just to what their geography is today, and today, it's a very deep South geography. Not a bad thing if your school is in the South, but it is a factor when your school is distant to that center point. And I have no interest in following Idaho's FBS path.

[bluehenbillk]

Ziady has to know, and I'm sure the App & GSU AD's know too that the BCS conferences aren't going to come calling for membership, we can all agree on that I think.

Yea there are some "cons" like additional costs for schollies both on the mens & womens sides & travel goes up, but there are pros as well. Look at ODU - they have VaTech & NC State among others coming to play them in Norfolk. That doesn't happen now matter how big they would build their stadium if they were a FCS team.

Ziady should get more of a pulse of his own fanbase that is growing tired of paying bigger bucks to see increasingly lower level competition in Newark, and we still aren't a consistent playoff participant.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

To answer your question, here is the data.

FCS National Championship: 0.7 Rating, 1.1M viewers

Independence Bowl (Ohio/ULM): 1.3 Rating, 1.7M viewers
GoDaddy Bowl (Ark St./Kent St.): 1.3 Rating, 1.9M viewers
New Orleans Bowl (ULL/ECU): 1.8 Rating, 2.6M viewers
Little Ceasars Bowl (WKU/Central Mich.): 1.8 Rating, 2.6M viewers

As a whole, 7.7 million more people saw the 4 Sun Belt bowl games. Individually, they were seen by an average of 2.2M/game, twice as many as the FCS title game.


Well this isn't an answer to your question but the highest rated FCS game this year was Ga Southern/ODU and it had ~1.5 million viewers. This was the division's most storied team versus a successful new kid in a big media market that has an impressive fan following already. It was aired in the 12pm time slot on ESPN with no other football games on. This is the best situation you can hope for as there's no competition. This was on the day of the Heisman presentation, and was followed by the Army/Navy game.

The highest rated FCS game of all time goes to App/Montana in 2009 which drew around 1.9 million viewers. This game was played on the same day as the Heisman ceremony, but was put as the lead-in for the Heisman which put a lot more eyeballs on it.

So you're saying an FCS semifinal in 2009 outperformed half the bowls involving a Sun Belt team last year. Interesting.

[mainejeff]

He's making those remarks because he is the head man of a directionless football program, who, like JMU are starting to grow uneasy with the things going on around them. Theyre coming to him for answers, and he either doesnt know what to do, or doesnt want to extend the effort.

+1000

[asumike83]

The Sun Belt does not have a "geography." I think there is some attempt on their part to carve out a second tier niche in the deep south, but at this point in their history the Sun Belt has been kind of a mishmash of teams from wherever. Not many conferences can pull off having Idaho, Louisiana Tech, and Florida International in the conference and talk about their "geography."

LA Tech and FIU are in C-USA beginning in 2014 but point taken. However, as spread out as the conference is, the East division come 2014 figures to be Appalachian, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Troy, South Alabama and likely JMU/Liberty. Having 3 of the 5 teams in your division as easy one-day bus rides is about as close as you'll find at the FBS level. Troy is about an hour further from Boone than Samford, USA about two hours.

Not thrilled about the trips out West but Idaho/NMSU are football-only and App will only have to travel there once every four years.

[blueballs]

I don't think much of the Sun Belt, but maybe Appy and GSU will be in a better position later because of this move now. So when a better conference solution pops up they will already have done a lot of the work to get ready for that.



This is correct.

I have lived in central FL since the mid 80's I have watched UCF go from 1-AA independent to 1-A independent to the MAC to C-USA and now to the Big East. Who knows what the final landing spot for GSU and App will be? One thing's for sure though, if they don't take the next step they can't take the one that follows it.

UD's AD's remarks and the attitude they reflect are strikingly similar to what the GSU folks listened to from the former AD Sam (Ax Man) Baker for so long and it frustrated the hell out of all of us.

[GannonFan]

Ziady has to know, and I'm sure the App & GSU AD's know too that the BCS conferences aren't going to come calling for membership, we can all agree on that I think.

Yea there are some "cons" like additional costs for schollies both on the mens & womens sides & travel goes up, but there are pros as well. Look at ODU - they have VaTech & NC State among others coming to play them in Norfolk. That doesn't happen now matter how big they would build their stadium if they were a FCS team.

Ziady should get more of a pulse of his own fanbase that is growing tired of paying bigger bucks to see increasingly lower level competition in Newark, and we still aren't a consistent playoff participant.

Yup - $36 a seat (once parking and donation included) to watch Jacksonville, Wagner, Del St, and then the CAA, is seeming like a poorer and poorer use of money every year, especially considering that doesn't even cover any cost of a home playoff ticket if we get that far. Replace that with Temple and Navy and UMass again, as well as others, on the home slate, and that's a better option.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LA Tech and FIU are in C-USA beginning in 2014 but point taken. However, as spread out as the conference is, the East division come 2014 figures to be Appalachian, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Troy, South Alabama and likely JMU/Liberty. Having 3 of the 5 teams in your division as easy one-day bus rides is about as close as you'll find at the FBS level. Troy is about an hour further from Boone than Samford, USA about two hours.

Not thrilled about the trips out West but Idaho/NMSU are football-only and App will only have to travel there once every four years.

With the split into divisions the Idaho/NMSU thing isn't that big a deal for App and Georgia Southern IMO. Troy and South Alabama certainly aren't bus trips but the rest likely will be.

It's schools like North Texas that will have a tough road to hoe.

[ASUMountaineer]

With the split into divisions the Idaho/NMSU thing isn't that big a deal for App and Georgia Southern IMO. Troy and South Alabama certainly aren't bus trips but the rest likely will be.

It's schools like North Texas that will have a tough road to hoe.

Except North Texas won't be in the Sun Belt when App State and GSU arrive. Whoops!

[ASUMountaineer]

You must have missed the memo where any opinion contrary to sheer exuberance in App State moving up has to be attacked because any such display of facts to support the contrary position hurts their precious feelings.

xlolx :( xlolx xbawlingx xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

A fair point, I see what you're saying now. Time will tell if pushing out KC was a good move or bad move, but I see the "my way or the highway" approach to this is just one more incident in a string of them.

Still, though, it seems like the guy is offering his opinion on what App State and Georgia Southern are doing, and that the Sun Belt isn't really "moving up" from the elite of FCS, that the top levels of FCS and the Sun Belt and MAC are pretty much the same. I agree there are sure going to be Delaware fans that won't be happy in saying that, but what I don't get is why App fans are so upset and feel the need to comment.

Oh wait, I remember - anyone who's not foursquare behind App State going to and dominating the Sun Belt is a liar and any commentary, facts or otherwise proving that it will cost more and it's "not really a move up" hurts their feelings and therefore it must not be discussed.

xblahx BTW, we really appreciate it when a Lehigh fan feels the need to comment on App State's conference affiliation--especially as frequently as you do. It's almost like you're a diehard App State fan. xcoffeex

[asumike83]

With the split into divisions the Idaho/NMSU thing isn't that big a deal for App and Georgia Southern IMO. Troy and South Alabama certainly aren't bus trips but the rest likely will be.

Agreed, Troy/USA will be the two toughest trips in the division. Since Samford joined the SoCon, Appalachian basketball has scheduled Chattanooga and Samford road games back-to-back so that they can bus the entire trip. They have also scheduled baseball/softball double-headers to have a travel day and go by bus. No guarantee they'll be able to pull that off all the time in a new conference but scheduling GA State/GA Southern followed by Troy/USA could also limit the plane trips.

There will definitely be more travel, no way around that but the divisional set-up and some more clever scheduling should stop it from getting out of hand.

[MplsBison]

So you're saying an FCS semifinal in 2009 outperformed half the bowls involving a Sun Belt team last year. Interesting.

No, he's not.

Check rating vs. viewership.

[Apphole]

So you're saying an FCS semifinal in 2009 outperformed half the bowls involving a Sun Belt team last year. Interesting.

xlolx Cherry pick much?

[asumike83]

So you're saying an FCS semifinal in 2009 outperformed half the bowls involving a Sun Belt team last year. Interesting.

The highest rated FCS playoff game ever drew more viewers than one of the four Sun Belt bowl games last year, the same number as another and less than two.

By that logic, Appalachian has a 75% chance of matching or exceeding the highest number of viewers they ever had for an FCS game if they make a bowl. Not sure that really helps your argument.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The highest rated FCS playoff game ever drew more viewers than one of the four Sun Belt bowl games last year, the same number as another and less than two.

By that logic, Appalachian has a 75% chance of matching or exceeding the highest number of viewers they ever had for an FCS game if they make a bowl. Not sure that really helps your argument.

So you're spending millions per annum on, in a best case scenario, a couple hundred thousand more TV "households" - if you make the postseason at all. Not sure how that helps the front porch argument.

[DFW HOYA]

By that logic, Appalachian has a 75% chance of matching or exceeding the highest number of viewers they ever had for an FCS game if they make a bowl. Not sure that really helps your argument.

New Orleans Bowl: 1.8 rating (2.6 million viewers)
GoDaddy.com: 1.3 rating (1.9 million viewers)
I-AA Championship: 0.7 rating (1.1 million viewers)

The flip side is that GSU and App are now competing among just two bowl bids a year as opposed to regular playoff appearances. More often that not, their seasons will end much earlier than before.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

New Orleans Bowl: 1.8 rating (2.6 million viewers)
GoDaddy.com: 1.3 rating (1.9 million viewers)
I-AA Championship: 0.7 rating (1.1 million viewers)

The flip side is that GSU and App are now competign among just two bowl bids a year as opposed to regular playoff appearances. More often that not, their seasons will end much earlier than before.

Also, you get multiple ESPN(2) games if you make a run to the championship game, worst case 2 games.

[MplsBison]

New Orleans Bowl: 1.8 rating (2.6 million viewers)
GoDaddy.com: 1.3 rating (1.9 million viewers)
I-AA Championship: 0.7 rating (1.1 million viewers)

The flip side is that GSU and App are now competign among just two bowl bids a year as opposed to regular playoff appearances. More often that not, their seasons will end much earlier than before.

Yeah but if no one around the country knew their season had ended - did it really end?

And, obviously - those two bowls are not the end all limit of possibilities for the Sun Belt. As we even have right in the thread that last season FOUR teams made it to bowls.

[MplsBison]

Also, you get multiple ESPN(2) games if you make a run to the championship game, worst case 2 games.

Yes, you get to be on ESPN2 twice. Once in the semi's and once in the championship game. Meanwhile, every bowl game in the roster gets the preferred spot on ESPN.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yes, you get to be on ESPN2 twice. Once in the semi's and once in the championship game. Meanwhile, every bowl game in the roster gets the preferred spot on ESPN.

So, basically, the same overall TV viewership as the singular bowl game, but for twice the time. Thanks for confirming.

[asumike83]

New Orleans Bowl: 1.8 rating (2.6 million viewers)
GoDaddy.com: 1.3 rating (1.9 million viewers)
I-AA Championship: 0.7 rating (1.1 million viewers)

The flip side is that GSU and App are now competing among just two bowl bids a year as opposed to regular playoff appearances. More often that not, their seasons will end much earlier than before.

It all depends on the season. In 2012, three SoCon teams made the playoffs, two of them got a game on ESPN2. Four Sun Belt teams made a bowl, all of them aired on ESPN.

[DFW HOYA]

And, obviously - those two bowls are not the end all limit of possibilities for the Sun Belt. As we even have right in the thread that last season FOUR teams made it to bowls.

Four was a good year but it was an outlier.

Unfortunately, conference realignment is all about TV revenues. Clearly, the Sun Belt pays better than the SoCon but these schools also absorb considerable travel costs for their sports outside football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Four was a good year but it was an outlier.

Unfortunately, conference realignment is all about TV revenues. Clearly, the Sun Belt pays better than the SoCon but these schools also absorb considerable travel costs for their sports outside football.

Do they? The Sun Belt TV deal is undisclosed. For all we know it pays $0, the same as the SoCon deal.

The Sun Belt deal is with ESPN, so in that sense it "pays better" in the sense that more Sun Belt games air on basic cable and/or on ESPN2. But in terms of dollars and cents it's hardly a foregone conclusion that it "pays better."

[MplsBison]

So, basically, the same overall TV viewership as the singular bowl game, but for twice the time. Thanks for confirming.

No, that's wrong.

And you'd only have a chance at being correct *IF* your team makes the semi's and then the championship. The bowl game TV exposure is guaranteed as long as you make the bowl game.

[MplsBison]

Do they? The Sun Belt TV deal is undisclosed. For all we know it pays $0, the same as the SoCon deal.

The Sun Belt deal is with ESPN, so in that sense it "pays better" in the sense that more Sun Belt games air on basic cable and/or on ESPN2. But in terms of dollars and cents it's harldy a foregone conclusion that it "pays better."

Prove us wrong. You know, do some actual journalism work.

[asumike83]

So, basically, the same overall TV viewership as the singular bowl game, but for twice the time. Thanks for confirming.

You also have to consider the frequency. I don't think it is unrealistic to expect bowl bids with much more frequency than a run to the FCS title game, which Appalachian has done three times in program history.

Really, it will all come down to how the team performs on the field. If Appalachian puts a winner on the field, competes for conference championships and goes to bowl games on a regular basis, the move will be successful. If they get their teeth kicked in, it will be an uphill battle.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

LFN and others, including some Southern and App fans, are trying to apply logic and reason to the college football discussion regarding alignment and classification. Unfortunately, we're not dealing with educated consumers of college football. If you're not in a BCS/C5 conference, your reputation is measured by your proximity in rank to those programs. Schools like Lehigh and Delaware look at Temple and Buffalo or UMass and wonder what all the fuss is about when they know their teams could compete on the field with a good chance of winning. Lehigh and Delaware are probably already maxed out in terms of market-share so reclassifying might not make as much sense. Georgia Southern and App St have growth potential and reclassification is a necessary First step to achieve growth.

This conversation has nothing to do with the quality of football on the field.

[Saint3333]

So you're saying an FCS semifinal in 2009 outperformed half the bowls involving a Sun Belt team last year. Interesting.

The rating increase was due to one of those teams that will no longer be playing FCS football...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Have we considered that all these "eyeballs" that are supposedly on the games are just TV's on ESPN by default? Sports bars, airports, etc?

[eaglewraith]

Have we considered that all these "eyeballs" that are supposedly on the games are just TV's on ESPN by default? Sports bars, airports, etc?

I believe this to be the case in the App/Montana game more so than our game although I imagine some of that bias is there. Many people were turning on ESPN to watch the Heisman ceremony, and got the treat of watching a good football game. They didn't turn on the TV to watch App/Montana because it wasn't marketed enough to make a difference.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I believe this to be the case in the App/Montana game more so than our game although I imagine some of that bias is there. Many people were turning on ESPN to watch the Heisman ceremony, and got the treat of watching a good football game. They didn't turn on the TV to watch App/Montana because it wasn't marketed enough to make a difference.

Let me clarify. I'm talking about the ratings for all the tertiary bowl games that are all just on ESPN. I think the 2+million are likely not all sitting riveted to their televisions.

[eaglewraith]

So you're saying an FCS semifinal in 2009 outperformed half the bowls involving a Sun Belt team last year. Interesting.

We should all just stop arguing with you. You're changing no one's opinion and we're definitely not changing yours. This just all needs to stop.

[eaglewraith]

Let me clarify. I'm talking about the ratings for all the tertiary bowl games that are all just on ESPN. I think the 2+million are likely not all sitting riveted to their televisions.

There's a possiblity there's some bias there I'll grant you.

I know there are some people that are college football fans like me that watched pretty much every game of bowl season. There's a lot of those people out there.

However those ratings are obtained, it doesn't make them any less important. Those numbers are used to figure out what to promote and what not to. I know marketing/promotion for the FCS title game and playoffs has never been given a fair shot and it sickens me because the playoffs are awesome. However, it's not going to change anytime soon. ESPN has the rights for the playoffs locked up til at least 2020 and has no competitor. They'll show it, but they won't put any true effort into it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I know marketing/promotion for the FCS title game and playoffs has never been given a fair shot and it sickens me because the playoffs are awesome. However, it's not going to change anytime soon. ESPN has the rights for the playoffs locked up til at least 2020 and has no competitor. They'll show it, but they won't put any true effort into it.

This has also been something that's mystified me as well. Why wouldn't, say, CBS Sports Network or NBC Sports Network make a bid for the FCS playoff rights from the NCAA? They're not expensive and would provide a lot of programming for these networks that they say they want.

Imagine it a second on NBC Sports Network. They'd have to promote the hell out of it because it would be their only asset for football at that time, not competing with a single bowl game on that network. It would be national. It would be on a lot of cable systems (much like Speed/Fox Sports One is already on a lot of cable systems).

[asumike83]

Let me clarify. I'm talking about the ratings for all the tertiary bowl games that are all just on ESPN. I think the 2+million are likely not all sitting riveted to their televisions.

I'm sure that is accurate but could the same not be said for the FCS playoff games that were on ESPN2 as well?

[ASUMountaineer]

This has also been something that's mystified me as well. Why wouldn't, say, CBS Sports Network or NBC Sports Network make a bid for the FCS playoff rights from the NCAA? They're not expensive and would provide a lot of programming for these networks that they say they want.

Imagine it a second on NBC Sports Network. They'd have to promote the hell out of it because it would be their only asset for football at that time, not competing with a single bowl game on that network. It would be national. It would be on a lot of cable systems (much like Speed/Fox Sports One is already on a lot of cable systems).

Why are you so concerned with App State's move to the Sun Belt? Isn't there something going on with Lehigh that you should be more focused on? You post about it more than most actual App fans. It's time to get over it and move on.

[Rekdiver]

Have we considered that all these "eyeballs" that are supposedly on the games are just TV's on ESPN by default? Sports bars, airports, etc?

Well, considering that we had no eyes on any regular season game last year........no TV contract, anything is an improvement. I'm sorry we are losing some of the rivalries we've developed over the years and will miss the banter of this Board, and will miss the playoffs. BUT it was/is time to try our fortunes on a larger stage. We've earned the right to try to compete aith the FBS schools. If we fail, well we tried..but I don't think we will. Will we play in mid January in a bowl? Very doubtful. But when we are only drawing 15k to home playoff games and 30k to regular season games I think that speaks to the general feeling about post season competition. I'll take a trip to New Orleans and Mobile for a 1 and done.

Interestingly, I asked a sports radio host on air in Charlotte who was bashing our move, "Who were the two teams that played in the FCS Championship game last year?" and he didn't know. He had to look it up. Plus remember whe have UNCC messing up the landscape in the Carolinas and that was a deciding factor in a need to move. best to all!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'm sure that is accurate but could the same not be said for the FCS playoff games that were on ESPN2 as well?

Well let's compare the BBVA Compass Bowl and the FCS Championship game since they were going on at the same time. Would those televisions be more likely to be on ESPN or ESPN2?

Yes, it's ESPN's fault but it totally skews the ratings number and the idea of "exposure"

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Well, considering that we had no eyes on any regular season game last year........no TV contract, anything is an improvement. I'm sorry we are losing some of the rivalries we've developed over the years and will miss the banter of this Board, and will miss the playoffs. BUT it was/is time to try our fortunes on a larger stage. We've earned the right to try to compete aith the FBS schools. If we fail, well we tried..but I don't think we will. Will we play in mid January in a bowl? Very doubtful. But when we are only drawing 15k to home playoff games and 30k to regular season games I think that speaks to the general feeling about post season competition. I'll take a trip to New Orleans and Mobile for a 1 and done.

Interestingly, I asked a sports radio host on air in Charlotte who was bashing our move, "Who were the two teams that played in the FCS Championship game last year?" and he didn't know. He had to look it up. Plus remember whe have UNCC messing up the landscape in the Carolinas and that was a deciding factor in a need to move. best to all!

again, I'm completely indifferent to App State and GSU, there is plenty of good competition left in FCS. I'm merely trying to cut through some of the bull****.

[ASUMountaineer]

Well let's compare the BBVA Compass Bowl and the FCS Championship game since they were going on at the same time. Would those televisions be more likely to be on ESPN or ESPN2?

Yes, it's ESPN's fault but it totally skews the ratings number and the idea of "exposure"

Cool. So, you're stance is that FCS > FBS and App State is make a bad decision/investment.

I have just one question, so what?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Cool. So, you're stance is that FCS > FBS and App State is make a bad decision/investment.

I have just one question, so what?

Don't you have a Sun Belt message board to ruin somewhere? Unless you think trolling some Lehigh fan is more important that your new kingdom.

[MplsBison]

We should all just stop arguing with you. You're changing no one's opinion and we're definitely not changing yours. This just all needs to stop.

That might be a half step too far....this is AGS after all.

Has anyone ever really changed anyone's opinion on here..about anything?

[MplsBison]

Well let's compare the BBVA Compass Bowl and the FCS Championship game since they were going on at the same time. Would those televisions be more likely to be on ESPN or ESPN2?

Yes, it's ESPN's fault but it totally skews the ratings number and the idea of "exposure"

ESPN does not care if the people tuned in are "riveted" or even actually watching, for that matter.

Their job is only to maximize ratings - because that's how they sell themselves to potential customers looking to advertise on their networks.


In other words, company X wants to buy an advertising slot on ESPN. They can choose the Compass bowl or the FCS national championship game for the same price. Which one to pick??

Well, the Compass bowl will get 2-3 million 'viewers' while the FCS game may get 1-1.5 million. According to the ratings makers.


Which would you pick as company X?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Cool. So, you're stance is that FCS > FBS and App State is make a bad decision/investment.

I have just one question, so what?

did you miss the part about how I am really indifferent? This is what is being talked about this time of year so I am participating as is my right. I am simply offering a different perspective on what is being said.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

ESPN does not care if the people tuned in are "riveted" or even actually watching, for that matter.

Their job is only to maximize ratings - because that's how they sell themselves to potential customers looking to advertise on their networks.


In other words, company X wants to buy an advertising slot on ESPN. They can choose the Compass bowl or the FCS national championship game for the same price. Which one to pick??

Well, the Compass bowl will get 2-3 million 'viewers' while the FCS game may get 1-1.5 million. According to the ratings makers.


Which would you pick as company X?

I'm talking about how the supposed higher ratings of these games does not translate necessarily into more viewers which does not mean more exposure. That is all. I don't think the recruit will wonder how much ad revenue their games will generate.

[Herder]

In one sense, the Delaware AD is correct. These schools went from the SoCon to the Sunbelt. In basketball and most other sports . . . lateral. In football, I'll give them a quarter to half step up. Obviously, some of the Sunbelt programs have higher aspirations, such as CUSA or maybe BE further out, which would be higher steps. Just because the Sunbelt plays FBS football, doesn't mean we should pay homage to the overall greatness of that conference. That conference doesn't hit the radar in basketball, and the bottom tier of the FBS for football.

On the other side of the issue is marketability of being a member of FBS football, which has some significant cred for football vs FCS. Their is some equity in that move, although I repeat, the product is a quarter to half step up. Obviously, these teams are wanting to be positioned for their football future, and the SB is a starting point at the higher level.

[MplsBison]

I'm talking about how the supposed higher ratings of these games does not translate necessarily into more viewers which does not mean more exposure. That is all. I don't think the recruit will wonder how much ad revenue their games will generate.

I'm not saying you don't have a good point or even that you're wrong. Most likely, you're very much onto something.

I'm saying that you're getting into such detail and even psychology at that point -- ESPN and the networks don't want to know the answer!! That's not their concern if 2 million TV's are tuned in but no one is watching.

They're still going to tell potential customers that 2 million TV's were tuned in.

[MplsBison]

In one sense, the Delaware AD is correct. These schools went from the SoCon to the Sunbelt. In basketball and most other sports . . . lateral. In football, I'll give them a quarter to half step up. Obviously, some of the Sunbelt programs have higher aspirations, such as CUSA or maybe BE further out, which would be higher steps. Just because the Sunbelt plays FBS football, doesn't mean we should pay homage to their greatness.

On the other side of the issue is marketability of being a member of FBS football. Their is some equity in that move, although I repeat, the product is a quarter to half step up.

Most businesses would accept 25% to 50% growth!

Point is, if you want to grow your football brand - you can't do it in FCS after a certain point. That is a very real fact.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm not saying you don't have a good point or even that you're wrong. Most likely, you're very much onto something.

I'm saying that you're getting into such detail and even psychology at that point -- ESPN and the networks don't want to know the answer!! That's not their concern if 2 million TV's are tuned in but no one is watching.

They're still going to tell potential customers that 2 million TV's were tuned in.

This benefits the athletes, or App State, how?

[Herder]

Yes, they will grow their brand in the Sunbelt for football over FCS, but FB only. Again, I say a quarter to a half step. To make a splash in FBS football from a Sunbelt perch, you need to have a special season . . . like 11-1 with a loss to Auburn and a win over MIchigan State. That would position you for a top 20 finish and a good Bowl game.

Northern IL proved that you can make the top 15 and find a national stage to get a major bowl bid with a 1 loss season, but the Huskies could have had a better showing in the Orange Bowl to lay the groundwork for the future of the MAC, SB, CUSA, and others.

The football stage is there, now a special season is needed to emerge from the pack.

[Rekdiver]

Goodbye AGS!

[asumike83]

Well let's compare the BBVA Compass Bowl and the FCS Championship game since they were going on at the same time. Would those televisions be more likely to be on ESPN or ESPN2?

Yes, it's ESPN's fault but it totally skews the ratings number and the idea of "exposure"

I don't disagree at all, the network which airs the game certainly makes a difference. I don't like that ESPN has as much influence as they do but that is just the way it is. They promote the FBS bowl games much more than FCS playoffs and give them priority to air on ESPN instead of ESPN2/ESPNU. That pecking order is not likely to change.

Some folks think it is a good move, some don't. Only time will tell and in the end, I think will come back to Appalachian doing what got them the chance to go FBS in the first place: win and put butts in the seats.

[MplsBison]

This benefits the athletes, or App State, how?

Who says it does?

If you want to advocate for 1980's college football, be my guest.

[DFW HOYA]

FWIW, Western Kentucky has officially moved to the new Sun Belt...umm, otherwise known as Conference USA:

http://wkunews.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/wku-cusa-advisory/

[asumike83]

FWIW, Western Kentucky has officially moved to the new Sun Belt...umm, otherwise known as Conference USA:

http://wkunews.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/wku-cusa-advisory/

If they were replaced with JMU, that would be great news for Appalachian but I'm not sure JMU will make the move.

[superman7515]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21989105/sun-belt-commish-karl-benson-western-kentuckys-exit-not-a-surprise


"Today's announcement that Western Kentucky University has accepted an invitation to join Conference USA is not a surprise given the communication that I have had with university officials and the rampant speculation over the past several months," Benson said in an official release. "I have long understood the implications of the move and what it means for the Sun Belt Conference.

"In fact, the Sun Belt Conference has been preparing for this possibility for some time and with the support and guidance of the Sun Belt Conference board of directors, I will continue to make recommendations on what options the Sun Belt Conference has in terms of future members and divisional structure. I remain confident that we have numerous options and that there are universities that have a strong desire to be members of the Sun Belt Conference."

Last week the Sun Belt Conference officially announced the additions of Appalachian State and Georgia Southern as all sports members as well as Idaho and New Mexico State as football-only members. CBSSports.com's Dennis Dodd writes that James Madison and Liberty have been mentioned as possible replacements for Western Kentucky, though Benson has not identified any targets publicly.

If James Madison and/or Liberty join the FBS ranks, it would be a sign of the growing distance between the FBS and FCS levels of play. The Big Ten has already considered eliminating FCS opponents from the schedule, and other schools are considering similar -- though less formal -- practices in order to boost strength of schedule.

If the value of the FCS product is dropping, it might be more beneficial for these perennial powers like Appalachian State and James Madison to make the jump and hope to replicate that success within their new conference. Handing in national title contention for a long shot chance at one access bowl spot -- awarded to the highest ranked team from the old-Big East, Mountain West, MAC, Conference USA and Sun Belt -- is a tough decision for fans to understand. But when the new conference offers an arguably brighter future than the devalued FCS, it's hard to blame the smaller schools for taking the risky move.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21989105/sun-belt-commish-karl-benson-western-kentuckys-exit-not-a-surprise

Clearly someone assigned to write an article with a conclusion and not facts.

[MplsBison]

Clearly someone assigned to write an article with a conclusion and not facts.

Provide the facts.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If they were replaced with JMU, that would be great news for Appalachian but I'm not sure JMU will make the move.

Has JMU ever been completely shot down by the MAC? That's the golden ticket...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Provide the facts.

No Facts:
If James Madison and/or Liberty join the FBS ranks, it would be a sign of the growing distance between the FBS and FCS levels of play. The Big Ten has already considered eliminating FCS opponents from the schedule, and other schools are considering similar -- though less formal -- practices in order to boost strength of schedule.

The Big Ten lie has already been disproven and JMU/Liberty can go anytime they want. They won't be missed. JMU is just the poor man's WKU

[PaladinFan]

No Facts:
If James Madison and/or Liberty join the FBS ranks, it would be a sign of the growing distance between the FBS and FCS levels of play. The Big Ten has already considered eliminating FCS opponents from the schedule, and other schools are considering similar -- though less formal -- practices in order to boost strength of schedule.

The Big Ten lie has already been disproven and JMU/Liberty can go anytime they want. They won't be missed. JMU is just the poor man's WKU

That might be the best news for everyone but the CAA.

I have no authority for thinking this, but I'm inclined to think that if one of the Virgina Schools were to leave, then bringing the SoCon schools together with W&M and Richmond seems like it could work. Add W&M, Richmond, VMI and Mercer to the SoCon, and I think you'd have a fun conference to watch. Or, alternatively, the CAA may push for a southern division to their conference.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Yes, they will grow their brand in the Sunbelt for football over FCS, but FB only. Again, I say a quarter to a half step. To make a splash in FBS football from a Sunbelt perch, you need to have a special season . . . like 11-1 with a loss to Auburn and a win over MIchigan State. That would position you for a top 20 finish and a good Bowl game.

Northern IL proved that you can make the top 15 and find a national stage to get a major bowl bid with a 1 loss season, but the Huskies could have had a better showing in the Orange Bowl to lay the groundwork for the future of the MAC, SB, CUSA, and others.

The football stage is there, now a special season is needed to emerge from the pack.

The Huskies demonstrate the reason for being in a G5 FBS conference over FCS. FCS provides ZERO opportunity to share the national stage in a premier game with a C5 team. When NIU was invited to the Orange Bowl, the naysayers still went on about how the Huskies didn't belong. From what I saw, NIU belonged on the field with FSU more than Notre Dame belonged on the field with Alabama. The playoff future will take care of these issues, but I liken the G5 conferences of FBS to the Patriot, Big South, NEC, MEAC conferences of FCS. Schools in those conferences aren't likely to win a NC, but they are given the opportunity to compete.

[ASUMountaineer]

Don't you have a Sun Belt message board to ruin somewhere? Unless you think trolling some Lehigh fan is more important that your new kingdom.

The only trolling here is you.

Please note that the post you quoted was in response to an NDSU fan. I'll give you an "A" for effort though.

App State is still FCS and in the SoCon for the time being. So, I'm quite comfortable right here.

Isn't there a Lehigh board or thread you could be posting in, rather than every App State/FBS thread on AGS?

[ASUMountaineer]

did you miss the part about how I am really indifferent? This is what is being talked about this time of year so I am participating as is my right. I am simply offering a different perspective on what is being said.

Cool. So, do you have an answer to the question?

BTW, I'm not trying to infringe on your "right" to post. Don't be so dramatic.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Cool. So, do you have an answer to the question?

BTW, I'm not trying to infringe on your "right" to post. Don't be so dramatic.

Because I do not agree with your characterization of my comments, I don't have an answer to the question.

[ASUMountaineer]

Because I do not agree with your characterization of my comments, I don't have an answer to the question.

Hmm, you seemed to have an opinion about most things App State related, I thought you'd have an answer for a simple question like "so what?" Anyways, I didn't see your "indifference" post before my post as they both posted at the same time. Nevertheless, there's no need to be so dramatic. xlolx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Hmm, you seemed to have an opinion about most things App State related, I thought you'd have an answer for a simple question like "so what?" Anyways, I didn't see your "indifference" post before my post as they both posted at the same time. Nevertheless, there's no need to be so dramatic. xlolx

App State is no more important to me than Delaware or Sac State or any other team in FCS that isn't NDSU. You will not, however, see me comparing FCS to FBS as a whole. Yes, for the non-BCS conferences, there is an artificial ceiling and that kind of sucks but if that's what you want, go for it.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

FWIW, Western Kentucky has officially moved to the new Sun Belt...umm, otherwise known as Conference USA:

http://wkunews.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/wku-cusa-advisory/

Sweet! Crank up that Conveyor Belt to nowhere! JMU and Liberty are on the clock!

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

I have no authority for thinking this, but I'm inclined to think that if one of the Virgina Schools were to leave, then bringing the SoCon schools together with W&M and Richmond seems like it could work. Add W&M, Richmond, VMI and Mercer to the SoCon, and I think you'd have a fun conference to watch. Or, alternatively, the CAA may push for a southern division to their conference.

I would be very amenable to either of those outcomes.

[ASUMountaineer]

App State is no more important to me than Delaware or Sac State or any other team in FCS that isn't NDSU. You will not, however, see me comparing FCS to FBS as a whole. Yes, for the non-BCS conferences, there is an artificial ceiling and that kind of sucks but if that's what you want, go for it.

I wasn't involved in the decision, but thanks for giving me the credit.

It's nice that you took the time to point out how little you care about App State. However, you're posts indicate otherwise. xthumbsupx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I wasn't involved in the decision, but thanks for giving me the credit.

It's nice that you took the time to point out how little you care about App State. However, you're posts indicate otherwise. xthumbsupx

Yes, you do like that little trick don't you. You want everybody to send you off with congratulations and crying about how much you will be missed. I'm simply saying "meh" to your departure from FCS and "huh?" to your enthusiasm about FBS.

[ASUMountaineer]

Yes, you do like that little trick don't you. You want everybody to send you off with congratulations and crying about how much you will be missed. I'm simply saying "meh" to your departure from FCS and "huh?" to your enthusiasm about FBS.

I have asked for no such thing and I don't expect anyone to miss us--except WCU fans who will have to find a new team to hate. I also don't expect you, or any other FCS fans, to give App State props for moving to FBS.

I just find it interesting that you have so many posts on App State FBS threads, yet you couldn't care less about App State or it's move to FBS. It's just too hilarious to not poke fun at. So, I'll ask again. You don't care about App State, or that App State is moving to FBS, so what?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I have asked for no such thing and I don't expect anyone to miss us--except WCU fans who will have to find a new team to hate. I also don't expect you, or any other FCS fans, to give App State props for moving to FBS.

I just find it interesting that you have so many posts on App State FBS threads, yet you couldn't care less about App State or it's move to FBS. It's just too hilarious to not poke fun at. So, I'll ask again. You don't care about App State, or that App State is moving to FBS, so what?

Half of my posts are having to explain, as plainly as possible, what I just said because you don't understand. I post in all kinds of threads. I'm diverse like that.

[ASUMountaineer]

Half of my posts are having to explain, as plainly as possible, what I just said because you don't understand. I post in all kinds of threads. I'm diverse like that.

Gotcha. You couldn't care less about App State or it's move to FBS. So, you take the time and make the effort to post in every App State FBS thread to tell everyone how little you care. That's awesome, bro! xthumbsupx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Gotcha. You couldn't care less about App State or it's move to FBS. So, you take the time and make the effort to post in every App State FBS thread to tell everyone how little you care. That's awesome, bro! xthumbsupx

My engagement in this thread has been as follows.

Smacking MPLS
Defending FCS
Bringing perspective to the ratings numbers
This silly slapfight

[ASUMountaineer]

My engagement in this thread has been as follows.

Smacking MPLS
Defending FCS
Bringing perspective to the ratings numbers
This silly slapfight

xlolx

You just can't quit the App State FBS threads.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My engagement in this thread has been as follows.

Inadvertently feeding trolls MplsBison and ASUMountaineer
Defending FCS
Bringing perspective to the ratings numbers


Fixed it for you.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Fixed it for you.

Not really, I just abhor bull**** and can't let it go.


Ok so maybe.

[MplsBison]

Fixed it for you.

You troll as hard as anyone the past few months.

[ASUMountaineer]

Fixed it for you.

xlolx

I'm not a troll, I just ask questions like, "isn't there anything going on with Lehigh that would interest you more than App State's move to FBS?" You have never answered that question. So, either nothing is going on with Lehigh, or nothing is going on with Lehigh that would interest you more than App State's move to FBS.

The only troll here is you.

[ASUMountaineer]

Not really, I just abhor bull**** and can't let it go.


Ok so maybe.

I guess we both are doing the same thing.

I'm not trolling you NoDak (and I haven't trolled LFN), I simply asked questions. I have not offered any of the "facts" or "stats" that you call "bull****." I have simply asked, "so what?" If that constitutes trolling, then MLPS and chattownmocs are doing it wrong. xthumbsupx

[bteagles11]

I think one of the Lehigh fans made the comment about of the 31 teams to move to FBS from FCS none are in BCS conferences and basically the point he was making was not one has broken through into the BCS Conference mix, not even Boise State. To him I point out UCONN, they made the move up after 1999 and are in the Big East which has been a BCS Conference and played Oklahoma in the 2011 Fiesta Bowl. Boise has been in numerous BCS bowl games. The fact is Georgia Southern especially, and App State probably, have accomplished all it can at the FCS level. Will winning a 7th title for the eagles or a 4th for the mountaineers do more for the university and athletics program than winning bowl games. It seems from the tv data previously supplied the bowl game garners more exposure and does more for the university. What is the point of winning championships if you have purposefully limited yourself to a lower competition just to win said championship. If a program feels it needs to challenge itself against the next level of competition why would you denigrate their desire to compete at the higher level. The Sun Belt is a legitimate FBS conference. When your teams compete against and beat teams ( ULM beat Arkansas) in the SEC, widely considered the best conference probably of all time, then people know who you are. The Delaware AD's comments are illegitimate because the ACC knew the Sun Belt when MTSU beat the pants off GT this past season. Fact is this entire thread has been perpetuated by sour grapes from fans who would like to see their program move to a higher level.

[GannonFan]

I think one of the Lehigh fans made the comment about of the 31 teams to move to FBS from FCS none are in BCS conferences and basically the point he was making was not one has broken through into the BCS Conference mix, not even Boise State. To him I point out UCONN, they made the move up after 1999 and are in the Big East which has been a BCS Conference and played Oklahoma in the 2011 Fiesta Bowl. .

Lazy example, to defend the Lehigh poster here. UConn, for all sports except football, was already in a BCS conference before they moved football up. Being a charter member of the Big East, as they were, gave them a unique ability to join a BCS conference straight away. No other program has that built in trump card and, by no coincidence, no other program has duplicated that feat.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Fixed it for you.

I'm just glad someone else is getting "the business".....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lazy example, to defend the Lehigh poster here. UConn, for all sports except football, was already in a BCS conference before they moved football up. Being a charter member of the Big East, as they were, gave them a unique ability to join a BCS conference straight away. No other program has that built in trump card and, by no coincidence, no other program has duplicated that feat.

+1. And critically, whenever the New World Order of football happens in 2014, as of now UConn will be on the outside of the BCS/Power Conferences looking in, just like Boise State.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

+1. And critically, whenever the New World Order of football happens in 2014, as of now UConn will be on the outside of the BCS/Power Conferences looking in, just like Boise State.

UConn's status as a flagship school will help their case. Also, being within a stones throw of ESPN certainly helps as well.

I think Cincy, UConn, Temple and Memphis will stick it out for a couple years and then go from there.

[CFBfan]

Lazy example, to defend the Lehigh poster here. UConn, for all sports except football, was already in a BCS conference before they moved football up. Being a charter member of the Big East, as they were, gave them a unique ability to join a BCS conference straight away. No other program has that built in trump card and, by no coincidence, no other program has duplicated that feat.

You could argue that Gtown has/had that oppty BUT will NEVER even try to leverage it.....

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm just glad someone else is getting "the business".....

No one is giving LFN "the business." I just responded in kind. He then resorted to calling names. xnodx xthumbsupx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

No one is giving LFN "the business." I just responded in kind. He then resorted to calling names. xnodx xthumbsupx

I was referring to NoDak. Trust me, LFN and I got it good over the weekend...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I was referring to NoDak. Trust me, LFN and I got it good over the weekend...

I'll take the business, don't bother me.

I went to business school. No, really, I did.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'll take the business, don't bother me.

I went to business school. No, really, I did.

As did I...lol

[ASUMountaineer]

I was referring to NoDak. Trust me, LFN and I got it good over the weekend...

I see. You quoted LFN which led to my confusion. However, I also would argue that I was not giving NoDak "the business." I just thought his way of showing how little he cares about App State and its move to FBS was funny. xpeacex

[ASUMountaineer]

I'll take the business, don't bother me.

I went to business school. No, really, I did.


As did I...lol

As did I. xnodx xlolx

[Rekdiver]

I would be very amenable to either of those outcomes.
\

I love ther irony that BigHouse's number of posts is close to the attendance at Spider football games............

[bteagles11]

Lazy example, to defend the Lehigh poster here. UConn, for all sports except football, was already in a BCS conference before they moved football up. Being a charter member of the Big East, as they were, gave them a unique ability to join a BCS conference straight away. No other program has that built in trump card and, by no coincidence, no other program has duplicated that feat.

Don't see how it is a lazy example. There are other teams at the Div 1 AA level that have had the same "advantage" as you put it and haven't been able to leverage it as UCONN did. Villanova comes to mind since they have been a big east member in bball and other sports for years but has not committed to make the move up. The point is it still shows it is possible. Who knows the movement that will take place in the next 15. And what would be bad with possibly reaching Boise State level and being left out of the big 4 or 5 considering how it ends up. Boise is still in the top 15 every year. They are respected nationally and have a chance every season to play in a BCS game. On the field product will be the determining factor for schools like Georgia Southern and App State. Because neither blow anyone away with market size they must put a solid product on the field to be relevant in the future. Alot of folks say it isn't possible to move into a BCS conference eventually for teams like Georgia Southern and App State. Well you don't really know that unless they would have continued to remain in FCS then it would be guaranteed. I think these schools are looking at the long term benefits of their Universities with moving up. Increased booster support, increased tv exposure, increased budget will possibly lead to increase in enrollment and academic funding later on.

[bluehenbillk]

Don't see how it is a lazy example. There are other teams at the Div 1 AA level that have had the same "advantage" as you put it and haven't been able to leverage it as UCONN did. Villanova comes to mind since they have been a big east member in bball and other sports for years but has not committed to make the move up. The point is it still shows it is possible. Who knows the movement that will take place in the next 15. And what would be bad with possibly reaching Boise State level and being left out of the big 4 or 5 considering how it ends up. Boise is still in the top 15 every year. They are respected nationally and have a chance every season to play in a BCS game. On the field product will be the determining factor for schools like Georgia Southern and App State. Because neither blow anyone away with market size they must put a solid product on the field to be relevant in the future. Alot of folks say it isn't possible to move into a BCS conference eventually for teams like Georgia Southern and App State. Well you don't really know that unless they would have continued to remain in FCS then it would be guaranteed. I think these schools are looking at the long term benefits of their Universities with moving up. Increased booster support, increased tv exposure, increased budget will possibly lead to increase in enrollment and academic funding later on.

Villanova's move to the Big Priest killed any hope they had of 1-A football. Unfortunately for FCS it'll most likely mean the end of VU FB by the end of the decade #bleedingsomuchmoneyithurts

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

\

I love ther irony that BigHouse's number of posts is close to the attendance at Spider football games............

Zinger!!!

We sold out all our home games last year, have 2900 students and probably had a higher paid attendance than your new conference mate Georgia State. As such, we're waiting by the phone for that phone call from the Slum Belt!

See you on the Slum Belt Message boards soon, buddy! I can't wait!

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

In all seriousness, at least Appalachian State was known outside of the hills of North Carolina when they were winning National Championships.

Aside from a story about a Meth Lab in Blowing Rock getting busted from time to time, will the world ever get to hear from you guys again after you head off to the Sun Belch???

[GannonFan]

Don't see how it is a lazy example. There are other teams at the Div 1 AA level that have had the same "advantage" as you put it and haven't been able to leverage it as UCONN did. Villanova comes to mind since they have been a big east member in bball and other sports for years but has not committed to make the move up. The point is it still shows it is possible. Who knows the movement that will take place in the next 15. And what would be bad with possibly reaching Boise State level and being left out of the big 4 or 5 considering how it ends up. Boise is still in the top 15 every year. They are respected nationally and have a chance every season to play in a BCS game. On the field product will be the determining factor for schools like Georgia Southern and App State. Because neither blow anyone away with market size they must put a solid product on the field to be relevant in the future. Alot of folks say it isn't possible to move into a BCS conference eventually for teams like Georgia Southern and App State. Well you don't really know that unless they would have continued to remain in FCS then it would be guaranteed. I think these schools are looking at the long term benefits of their Universities with moving up. Increased booster support, increased tv exposure, increased budget will possibly lead to increase in enrollment and academic funding later on.

It was a lazy example because UConn was the only school, other than Georgetown, to have the capability to move directly into a BCS conference. UConn, and Georgetown, were charter members of the Big East and as long as they had FBS level football and wanted to, they were guaranteed admission. Your referencing villanova is again, lazy, and in this case incorrect, as nova was not a charter member of the Big East and would have to been voted in by the current members. Hence why they didn't get in last year - and BHBK's point is correct, with nova's decision to focus on basketball they way they have, they have pretty much signaled that the nova football program has an expiration date in the relative short term future.

I'm not arguing if it's better to be FBS or FCS or the difference between BCS level FBS and the other parts of FBS, just pointing out that your examples weren't good ones.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

I think one of the Lehigh fans made the comment about of the 31 teams to move to FBS from FCS none are in BCS conferences and basically the point he was making was not one has broken through into the BCS Conference mix, not even Boise State. To him I point out UCONN, they made the move up after 1999 and are in the Big East which has been a BCS Conference and played Oklahoma in the 2011 Fiesta Bowl. Boise has been in numerous BCS bowl games. The fact is Georgia Southern especially, and App State probably, have accomplished all it can at the FCS level. Will winning a 7th title for the eagles or a 4th for the mountaineers do more for the university and athletics program than winning bowl games. It seems from the tv data previously supplied the bowl game garners more exposure and does more for the university. What is the point of winning championships if you have purposefully limited yourself to a lower competition just to win said championship. If a program feels it needs to challenge itself against the next level of competition why would you denigrate their desire to compete at the higher level. The Sun Belt is a legitimate FBS conference. When your teams compete against and beat teams ( ULM beat Arkansas) in the SEC, widely considered the best conference probably of all time, then people know who you are. The Delaware AD's comments are illegitimate because the ACC knew the Sun Belt when MTSU beat the pants off GT this past season. Fact is this entire thread has been perpetuated by sour grapes from fans who would like to see their program move to a higher level.

USF spent a few years in 1-aa before making the 1-a move that eventually landed them in the BEl.

[Apps03]

In all seriousness, at least Appalachian State was known outside of the hills of North Carolina when they were winning National Championships.

Aside from a story about a Meth Lab in Blowing Rock getting busted from time to time, will the world ever get to hear from you guys again after you head off to the Sun Belch???[

hilarious...
http://www.wave3.com/story/16086885/meth-lab-explodes-in-museum-district

[Saint3333]

This Richmond fan needs a hobby. Go build another stadium under 9k.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

This Richmond fan needs a hobby. Go build another stadium under 9k.

Keep me on speed dial. A few more Armanti-less seasons in the pathetic Sun Belch and you may want to take a look at some of my renderings.

[proasu89]

In all seriousness, at least Appalachian State was known outside of the hills of North Carolina when they were winning National Championships.

Aside from a story about a Meth Lab in Blowing Rock getting busted from time to time, will the world ever get to hear from you guys again after you head off to the Sun Belch???

You silly Spider, there aren't any meth labs in Blowing Rock.
Meat Camp, Potter Town yes, but not in Mitford.

[ASUMountaineer]

In all seriousness, at least Appalachian State was known outside of the hills of North Carolina when they were winning National Championships.

Aside from a story about a Meth Lab in Blowing Rock getting busted from time to time, will the world ever get to hear from you guys again after you head off to the Sun Belch???

Did you come up with that all on your own? It's very original.

[ASUMountaineer]

Keep me on speed dial. A few more Armanti-less seasons in the pathetic Sun Belch and you may want to take a look at some of my renderings.

We're cool. We won a National Championship while AE was still in homeroom in Greenwood. Try again.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Did you come up with that all on your own? It's very original.

No. I heard it from a Georgia State Alumnus. Or maybe it was a Louisianna Lafayette alumnus.

Shucks. I can't remember. One of them.

[ASUMountaineer]

No. I heard it from a Georgia State Alumnus. Or maybe it was a Louisianna Lafayette alumnus.

Shucks. I can't remember. One of them.

Weak.

[Herder]

Absolutely correct.

The Pitt v Ole Miss bowl game was much more important to the media than the FCS championship. I even thought that when I was watching the FCS game back then.


FCS is just very expensive DII or DIII football. That's all it is except to fans of the teams comprising the sub-division. That's all it can be.

Wow, you are way off. FCS teams (the top end) have nearly all their games on TV and they have an opportunity to play 1-2 games per year against the top end of FBS to make a name for themselves.

What do DII & DIII have that is remotely close to that? Mount union will have 1 game on tv per year if they are in the championship. DIIs might have a game or two on tv each year for a regional game if they are lucky, similar to the bottom end of FCS. There is a difference, you have to open your eyes though.

App St proved that the top 10 in FCS can play with nearly anyone and can't be taken lightly. I have Aug 31st circled as a date that could open some FBS eyes in Manhattan.

[MplsBison]

Wow, you are way off. FCS teams (the top end) have nearly all their games on TV and they have an opportunity to play 1-2 games per year against the top end of FBS to make a name for themselves.

What do DII & DIII have that is remotely close to that? Mount union will have 1 game on tv per year if they are in the championship. DIIs might have a game or two on tv each year for a regional game if they are lucky, similar to the bottom end of FCS. There is a difference, you have to open your eyes though.

App St proved that the top 10 in FCS can play with nearly anyone and can't be taken lightly. I have Aug 31st circled as a date that could open some FBS eyes in Manhattan.

FCS teams have no more opportunities to play on ESPN 2 than DII and DIII schools do (unless DII and DIII semi's aren't broadcast). Fox Sports North and North Dakota's in-state NBC network don't count.

No FCS teams (just like DII and DIII) play on ESPN or ESPN 2 during the regular season that I'm aware of, unless it's some classic for HBCU's (which also doesn't count/special circumstance).

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Zinger!!!

We sold out all our home games last year, have 2900 students and probably had a higher paid attendance than your new conference mate Georgia State. As such, we're waiting by the phone for that phone call from the Slum Belt!

See you on the Slum Belt Message boards soon, buddy! I can't wait!

App State Kidd Brewer Stadium Average Attedence: 28,000 - 7,000 students = 21,000 paid attendance.
Richmond Robbins Itisy Bitsy Spider Stadium Average Attendance: 8,700 - 2,900 students = 5,800 paid attendance.

App State gets 15,200 more paid fans per game, or roughly twice the capacity of your stadium.

I hope you don't think Richslum is headed to FBS.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

App State Kidd Brewer Stadium Average Attedence: 28,000 - 7,000 students = 21,000 paid attendance.
Richmond Robbins Itisy Bitsy Spider Stadium Average Attendance: 8,700 - 2,900 students = 5,800 paid attendance.

App State gets 15,200 more paid fans per game, or roughly twice the capacity of your stadium.

I hope you don't think Richslum is headed to FBS.

Richmond, VA Metro Population 1.2 million

Boone, NC 17k

Don't kid yourself. It's about TV markets.

[ASUMountaineer]

Richmond, VA Metro Population 1.2 million

Boone, NC 17k

Don't kid yourself. It's about TV markets.

I don't think either of them mentioned TV markets, and we know that UR has shown zero interest in going FBS. BHCE has been trolling these threads lately, and AI let himself get roped in. I do think it's cute how often BHCE feels the need to rip a conference that his team has absolutely zero affiliation with. Good times!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I don't think either of them mentioned TV markets, and we know that UR has shown zero interest in going FBS. BHCE has been trolling these threads lately, and AI let himself get roped in. I do think it's cute how often BHCE feels the need to rip a conference that his team has absolutely zero affiliation with. Good times!

I was just saying that there are several other factors involved in these moves. FBS conferences have lots of reasons for considering a school. If they can get into a big tv market, that would be enough. Corporate sponsors would buy up tickets enough to get them to the attendance numbers they need.

Look at Georgia State and UNCC. Those are hardly quality teams.

[ASUMountaineer]

I was just saying that there are several other factors involved in these moves. FBS conferences have lots of reasons for considering a school. If they can get into a big tv market, that would be enough. Corporate sponsors would buy up tickets enough to get them to the attendance numbers they need.

Look at Georgia State and UNCC. Those are hardly quality teams.

I agree, and I'm sure everyone here knows this--especially AI. I just failed to see where markets had been mentioned before or were part of the conversation. Besides, BHCE is simply trolling...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I agree, and I'm sure everyone here knows this--especially AI. I just failed to see where markets had been mentioned before or were part of the conversation. Besides, BHCE is simply trolling...

Agreed.

[superman7515]

No FCS teams (just like DII and DIII) play on ESPN or ESPN 2 during the regular season that I'm aware of, unless it's some classic for HBCU's (which also doesn't count/special circumstance).

The MEAC has a game every week on the ESPN network, every team is on tv at least once a year, and the games broadcast aren't Classics.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The MEAC has a game every week on ESPN2, every team is on tv at least once a year, and the games broadcast aren't Classics.

I think those MEAC games are on ESPNU. The Ivy League has a similar deal iirc.

[superman7515]

I think those MEAC games are on ESPNU. The Ivy League has a similar deal iirc.

The majority are on ESPN2 after the original contract expired, they do show games on ESPNU and ESPN Classic as well though. The Florida A&M vs Bethune-Cookman game is supposed to be aired on either ESPN or ABC from now on as well.

[MplsBison]

The majority are on ESPN2 after the original contract expired, they do show games on ESPNU and ESPN Classic as well though. The Florida A&M vs Bethune-Cookman game is supposed to be aired on either ESPN or ABC from now on as well.

Fine, they're not classics - but you damn well why those games are on like that. And it sure as heck isn't because the MEAC plays top level ball in FCS.

Do I really need to spell it out for you. Come on... (PS - I won't go there, so don't bother)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fine, they're not classics - but you damn well why those games are on like that. And it sure as heck isn't because the MEAC plays top level ball in FCS.

Do I really need to spell it out for you. Come on... (PS - I won't go there, so don't bother)

Please go there.

[MplsBison]

Let me just say this: it's painfully obvious that ESPN doesn't care about putting the best FCS teams on their lineups. They only care about ratings. Otherwise, it'd obviously be Delaware on EPSN2 instead of Delaware St.

MEAC teams are not very good, but they get good ratings.


HMMMMMM....I wonder what it is about MEAC schools that gives them such an advantage over the rest of FCS in the ratings category....hmmpf..just can't figure it out...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let me just say this: it's painfully obvious that ESPN doesn't care about putting the best FCS teams on their lineups. They only care about ratings. Otherwise, it'd obviously be Delaware on EPSN2 instead of Delaware St.

MEAC teams are not very good, but they get good ratings.

Wait - is that Karl Benson on Line 2 in Norfolk State's athletic department?