Furman Reaffirms Committment to SoCon

[superman7515]

Usually the first sign of someone leaving is them confirming they won't leave... But I think Furman is on the level.

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20130327/SPORTS/303270030/Furman-won-t-follow-rivals-out-SoCon?gcheck=1&nclick_check=1


...“It’s important for Furman as it is for the conference that we have enough football teams that we have a competitive conference,” Clark said. “It’s a critical mass that we’re interested in. I would certainly think that as we move forward, we’d be looking into adding a couple of football-playing schools.”

In the ever-changing world of conference affiliation, Clark said the Paladins are committed to SoCon. Furman and The Citadel are the two longest-running members of the league, as each joined in 1936.

“We’ve not really had any discussions about alternatives,” said Clark. “We are confident that the Southern Conference is going to remain a strong conference and one that makes sense for us.”

Richard Johnson, Wofford athletic director, said the Terriers have the same sentiment.

“We’re thrilled with FCS-level football and don’t have any designs on being anywhere else,” said Johnson. “The Southern Conference is a strong, viable league that’s had membership transitions of the years.”

Since joining the Southern Conference in 1997, Wofford is the only team outside of the “Big Three” to win a conference football title. The Terriers have claimed four since their first in 2003....

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The SoCon now must focus on replacing the departed teams. In a conference call this afternoon, Iamarino declined to identify any potential new members but said the league would not consider Division II schools that are looking to move up.

“The presidents and chancellors have looked at (adding teams) as a three-legged stool,” said Iamarino. “One is the academic profile. We want institutions that are not going to be an APR (academic progress rate) difficulty, that are going to graduate their students.

“The second one is athletic competition. Clearly we’re losing two outstanding football programs. It will be very, very hard if not impossible to replace them with like quality at the FCS level.

“The third leg of the stool is geography. Our folks have made it quite clear that they would like to keep the geographic footprint manageable. … We don’t want to have to put teams on airplanes for regular-season contests.”

Iamarino also pointed out that baseball is an important sport for the SoCon.

[catamount man]

Although we haven't released anything, you can bet WCU shares the same sentiments. GO CATS!

[The Cats]

Although we haven't released anything, you can bet WCU shares the same sentiments. GO CATS!

Actually they have, in Monday's "Ask the AD"


What does the future hold in regard to Western staying in the Southern Conference?

Chancellor David Belcher and I are totally committed to remaining in, and assisting with the growth of, the Southern Conference. I cannot see a scenario in the immediate future whereby Western would look for membership within another conference. That said, it is vital that we work with the Conference on upcoming discussions of expansion. With the loss of College of Charleston and the possibility of more defections in the future, we need to ensure the Southern Conference is poised to remain the national leader that it has become over the past several years.

[walliver]

In a related note, Furman, Wofford and WCU have called a press conference to announce that they are leaving the SoCon for the B1G. :D

Seriously, however, the core of the conference has no need to leave, and really nowhere to go. The OVC and the BSC are a downward move, and the CAA has taken a decidedly New England tilt the last few years, and no-one wants to join a club that would have CofC as a member. A new conference would not get an automatic bid to March Madness.

It will be interesting to see if Chatty and Elon will make any statements. I think Elon will stay, because the CAA is very uncertain at this point, especially if JMU leaves. I suspect Chatty stays if ETSU comes in, but is a high risk to bolt if ETSU goes to the OVC.

[catamount man]

Actually they have, in Monday's "Ask the AD"

Thanks. I hadn't read this month's "Ask the AD" release yet. GO CATS!

[catamount man]

In a related note, Furman, Wofford and WCU have called a press conference to announce that they are leaving the SoCon for the B1G. :D

Seriously, however, the core of the conference has no need to leave, and really nowhere to go. The OVC and the BSC are a downward move, and the CAA has taken a decidedly New England tilt the last few years, and no-one wants to join a club that would have CofC as a member. A new conference would not get an automatic bid to March Madness.

It will be interesting to see if Chatty and Elon will make any statements. I think Elon will stay, because the CAA is very uncertain at this point, especially if JMU leaves. I suspect Chatty stays if ETSU comes in, but is a high risk to bolt if ETSU goes to the OVC.

With ETSU all but bringing football back, I feel a SoCon invite is right around the corner. They have $340,000.00 budgeted for the head coach's salary. I can pretty much bank my *** that Paul Hamilton didn't come CLOSE to sniffing half that amount when he ran the ship there.

And they have said no to the mini-dump so look for a new stadium. ETSU, VMI and Mercer would suit me fine.

[BigSouthFB]

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/03/27/in-fcs-huddle-expect-swift-movement-from-southern-conference/

[ngineer]

Furman, Wofford, Elon and The Citadel would make an interesting "Southern Division" of a new Patriot Leage, by shifting Georgetown to the South and having Richmond join. Six each, would make 11 games. Only downside is no or little room for OOC games. Just a meandering thought while counting the days for the spring game.

[DSUrocks07]

Usually the first sign of someone leaving is them confirming they won't leave... But I think Furman is on the level.

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20130327/SPORTS/303270030/Furman-won-t-follow-rivals-out-SoCon?gcheck=1&nclick_check=1


The SoCon now must focus on replacing the departed teams. In a conference call this afternoon, Iamarino declined to identify any potential new members but said the league would not consider Division II schools that are looking to move up.

“The presidents and chancellors have looked at (adding teams) as a three-legged stool,” said Iamarino. “One is the academic profile. We want institutions that are not going to be an APR (academic progress rate) difficulty, that are going to graduate their students.

“The second one is athletic competition. Clearly we’re losing two outstanding football programs. It will be very, very hard if not impossible to replace them with like quality at the FCS level.

“The third leg of the stool is geography. Our folks have made it quite clear that they would like to keep the geographic footprint manageable. … We don’t want to have to put teams on airplanes for regular-season contests.”

Iamarino also pointed out that baseball is an important sport for the SoCon.

The MEAC has 11 football members currently. Usually nine would be the perfect number for a non-championship game league. Which ones would meet those three requirements?

[fc97]

according to some, after the maac talked to elon and davidson, the patriot approach those two plus vmi and the citadel for possible membership two months or so ago

[fc97]

also reportedly, the elon president and ahtletics director still refuse to make a statement or confirm anything about the future of elon in or outside of the socon.

[Saint3333]

The SoCon members should wait for JMU to make a decision on the Sun Belt. If they do leave the SoCon could have the upper hand and steal a few CAA members vs. expanding with KSU and Mercer type programs.

If I'm a SoCon member I'm hoping JMU does go and the SoCon leaders push hard for W&M and others.

[fc97]

problem is saint, the caa still has the sports deal and the socon doesnt and the caa has a ton of exit money where the socon doesnt. the caa is probably more attractive.

[mainejeff]

The SoCon members should wait for JMU to make a decision on the Sun Belt. If they do leave the SoCon could have the upper hand and steal a few CAA members vs. expanding with KSU and Mercer type programs.

If I'm a SoCon member I'm hoping JMU does go and the SoCon leaders push hard for W&M and others.

There are multiple conferences rooting for JMU to leave the CAA......SoCon, Patriot, America East, MAAC..........

[walliver]

problem is saint, the caa still has the sports deal and the socon doesnt and the caa has a ton of exit money where the socon doesnt. the caa is probably more attractive.

SoCon exit fee for less than 2 years notice is $600,000. It is less than the CAA's $1,000,000, but still not a tremendous difference. In addition, the SoCon will be receiving checks totaling $1.2M from the departing members which could be used to subsidize a payout.

The TV issue is still significant

[Saint3333]

problem is saint, the caa still has the sports deal and the socon doesnt and the caa has a ton of exit money where the socon doesnt. the caa is probably more attractive.

That is a good point. I'd hate to see the reverse occur though. While I was for our move out of the SoCon I'd hate the SoCon to weaken at the expense of the CAA.

[Eagle22]

SoCon exit fee for less than 2 years notice is $600,000. It is less than the CAA's $1,000,000, but still not a tremendous difference. In addition, the SoCon will be receiving checks totaling $1.2M from the departing members which could be used to subsidize a payout.

The TV issue is still significant

Should be $1.8M, right ? Or is Charleston staying the required 2 years ?

Whether it is a $133K-per-remaining school dividend, or $200K ... the SoCon would be better suited to hold that payout and reinvest it by buying some TV time.

Pushing that money back to the individuals schools only ensures that you get less long term benefit for the conference, unless the SoCon is worried more about the solvency of the athletic programs that no longer see football games on TV.

[fc97]

the way i figure it

exit money
colonial has made $4 million off george mason, vcu, odu and georgia state plus maybe another $1 million of jmu of they leave, split 8-9 ways. about $500,000 per school, plus splittin whatever umass had to pay

the socon is making $1.8 million off app, gsu and cofc. roughly $200,000 per school. more if elon, furman, wofford, davidson leave

advantage caa in money

ncaa money:
caa has money made from gmu and vcu's deep runs (3 total) plus more success at the 1st round to sweet sixteen levels

socon has money from the single davidson run to the elite 8, other than that, a bunch of 1 or 2 and dones

advantage caa in money

tv contract
caa still has a tv contract, socon doesn't. the caa still hasn't lost the contract and the socon still hasnt gained a contract

advantage caa



no matter, a jmu-less caa has more to offer and more cards to play than the socon.

[fc97]

That is a good point. I'd hate to see the reverse occur though. While I was for our move out of the SoCon I'd hate the SoCon to weaken at the expense of the CAA.

one thing to say that isnt meant as smack, the firebomb that app fans did to the socon and member schools for the past decade has done a lot of damage to the conference in public opinion. the socon could weaken or fold and there are groups of very vocal app fans that would dance and sing praises about it. look at your own fan base, when the fbs announcement was made, there were many of your fans more interested in rubbing it in the fans of elon, wofford and samford and talking down about the socon than they were about talking about the sun belt.

that kind of stuff is flat damaging to any image and continues to damage the image, why would anyone stay really?

[The Cats]

one thing to say that isnt meant as smack, the firebomb that app fans did to the socon and member schools for the past decade has done a lot of damage to the conference in public opinion. the socon could weaken or fold and there are groups of very vocal app fans that would dance and sing praises about it. look at your own fan base, when the fbs announcement was made, there were many of your fans more interested in rubbing it in the fans of elon, wofford and samford and talking down about the socon than they were about talking about the sun belt.

that kind of stuff is flat damaging to any image and continues to damage the image, why would anyone stay really?


It looks to me like all you are trying to do is justify an Elon departure.

[PaladinFan]

one thing to say that isnt meant as smack, the firebomb that app fans did to the socon and member schools for the past decade has done a lot of damage to the conference in public opinion. the socon could weaken or fold and there are groups of very vocal app fans that would dance and sing praises about it. look at your own fan base, when the fbs announcement was made, there were many of your fans more interested in rubbing it in the fans of elon, wofford and samford and talking down about the socon than they were about talking about the sun belt.

that kind of stuff is flat damaging to any image and continues to damage the image, why would anyone stay really?

I don't necessarily agree with that. I've had the position a long time that the SoCon is old, and will adapt. It has, perhaps more than any other athletic conference in the country, adapted to change.

I frankly care very little about what App fans who were not even aware there was a football team in Boone until 2006 say about the conference. It is my personal opinion that they are in for a very cold shower in the coming years.

[Saint3333]

I'd say more App fans were defending the move and the attacks of FCS programs than they were rubbing it there face.

With the exception of calling out Citdog and other for their comments that an FBS move would never happen. Citdog has pulled a chattown type hibernation by the way.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

The SoCon is run by Furman, Citadel, and App alumni in Spartanburg. Georgia Southern applied for membership in the early 80's and it wasn't until 1992 that the conference held it's nose and admitted Southern. Not coincidentally, that was the last year that darling Citadel sniffed a conference title and Furman never did better than sharing a title with Georgia Southern and App State even though they had won the title 9 times the previous 15 seasons.

Many SoCon sports officials are alumni of App, Furman, and the Citadel and it shows in football, basketball, and baseball. The Citadel has won many baseball tournaments and I'm sure it helps that the conference tourney has been consistently held in Charleston for years save the few times recently it was held in Greenville.

The SoCon fancies itself a Wine & Cheese conference and is absolutely thrilled to be rid of the working class football fans (read rowdy) that have always made up a large part of the Eagle Nation and hopped on the App bandwagon in the mid 20-oh's. Muffy, Buffy, and Biff will be safe now from loud crowds while discussing the poor service at the country club and how wonderful the Obama'a are.

[AppMan]

“We’re thrilled with FCS-level football and don’t have any designs on being anywhere else,” said Richard Johnson, Wofford athletic director.

Are they talking about not dropping back to D-II? Because they sure as heck aren't going FBS.

[AshevilleApp2]

The SoCon is run by Furman, Citadel, and App alumni in Spartanburg. Georgia Southern applied for membership in the early 80's and it wasn't until 1992 that the conference held it's nose and admitted Southern. Not coincidentally, that was the last year that darling Citadel sniffed a conference title and Furman never did better than sharing a title with Georgia Southern and App State even though they had won the title 9 times the previous 15 seasons.

Many SoCon sports officials are alumni of App, Furman, and the Citadel and it shows in football, basketball, and baseball. The Citadel has won many baseball tournaments and I'm sure it helps that the conference tourney has been consistently held in Charleston for years save the few times recently it was held in Greenville.

The SoCon fancies itself a Wine & Cheese conference and is absolutely thrilled to be rid of the working class football fans (read rowdy) that have always made up a large part of the Eagle Nation and hopped on the App bandwagon in the mid 20-oh's. Muffy, Buffy, and Biff will be safe now from loud crowds while discussing the poor service at the country club and how wonderful the Obama'a are.

It's amazing how persecuted you've been. I commend you on having the fortitude to last this long.

[asumike83]

one thing to say that isnt meant as smack, the firebomb that app fans did to the socon and member schools for the past decade has done a lot of damage to the conference in public opinion. the socon could weaken or fold and there are groups of very vocal app fans that would dance and sing praises about it. look at your own fan base, when the fbs announcement was made, there were many of your fans more interested in rubbing it in the fans of elon, wofford and samford and talking down about the socon than they were about talking about the sun belt.

that kind of stuff is flat damaging to any image and continues to damage the image, why would anyone stay really?

I really do not think that any message board postings or comments from *some* Appalachian fans has done or will do any damage to the SoCon. The schools who wanted to join still want to join. Furman, Wofford and UTC have all confirmed they have no plans to leave and it almost goes without saying that The Citadel feels the same, along with Western. With what is happening in the CAA, depending on whether JMU makes a move or not, the SoCon could actually find themselves in a position of power.

The comments from the leaders are what matters in terms of conference image. If Dr. Peacock or Charlie Cobb had made public statements to the effect that "we're glad to be out of here", that would have been damaging. At the press conference announcing the Sun Belt invitation, both of them thanked the Southern Conference and their members. Dr. Peacock even made a point to state that "I won't say we are moving up, we are moving on".

If JMU leaves, the SoCon could make a play to get W&M for all sports, Richmond for football and then take their pick of ETSU, VMI or Mercer. Charleston and UNCW may have to reevaluate their situations as well, depending on how everything goes. Along with them, it is fairly common knowledge that Coastal, Kennesaw State and a host of other Big South/Atlantic Sun schools would jump ship in a second. The SoCon will maintain it's image as a powerful FCS conference with strong academic institutions for a long time to come.

[Saint3333]

Fans of remaining SoCon members are going to be surprised at the number of App games that will show up on your non-football schedules in 2014 and beyond.

We're still a member of the SoCon in wrestling and men's soccer as well.

[AppMan]

I don't necessarily agree with that. I've had the position a long time that the SoCon is old, and will adapt. It has, perhaps more than any other athletic conference in the country, adapted to change.

I frankly care very little about what App fans who were not even aware there was a football team in Boone until 2006 say about the conference. It is my personal opinion that they are in for a very cold shower in the coming years.

I'm a 1977 grad and well aware of what has been going on in the Southern Con for years. I produced a publication for the conference back in the 80's and actually coined the moniker SoCon. Guess I should have TM'd it. I knew Dave Hart exceptionally well, Wright Waters and Alfred White also. Prior to 1990 the conference had a strict rule against admitting non football playing members and that was the reason Davidson was shown the door in 1988. Waters, under pressure from FU, Citadel, Davidson & VMI, re-admitted Davidson, then adding UNCG and Charleston and essentially reshaped the conference. He later appeased the Gang of Four wanting to offset the imbalance of the public schools by bringing in Wofford. Alfred White was stone walled in his attempts to introduce more public university football playing members. He wanted EKU and (if memory serves me well) had discussions with MTSU. I fell out with the conference when Danny Boy Morrison was brought in. He set the course of the league in a decidedly different direction which continues today. I don't know any ASU folks who are mad or bitter about it, but I get aggravated when we get flamed for saying the SoCon doesn't fit us any longer and it is time to move.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'd say more App fans were defending the move and the attacks of FCS programs than they were rubbing it there face...

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Yes, App State the victims. xlolx xlolx xlolx

Carry on.

xpopcornx

[fc97]

I'm a 1977 grad and well aware of what has been going on in the Southern Con for years. I produced a publication for the conference back in the 80's and actually coined the moniker SoCon. Guess I should have TM'd it. I knew Dave Hart exceptionally well, Wright Waters and Alfred White also. Prior to 1990 the conference had a strict rule against admitting non football playing members and that was the reason Davidson was shown the door in 1988. Waters, under pressure from FU, Citadel, Davidson & VMI, re-admitted Davidson, then adding UNCG and Charleston and essentially reshaped the conference. He later appeased the Gang of Four wanting to offset the imbalance of the public schools by bringing in Wofford. Alfred White was stone walled in his attempts to introduce more public university football playing members. He wanted EKU and (if memory serves me well) had discussions with MTSU. I fell out with the conference when Danny Boy Morrison was brought in. He set the course of the league in a decidedly different direction which continues today. I don't know any ASU folks who are mad or bitter about it, but I get aggravated when we get flamed for saying the SoCon doesn't fit us any longer and it is time to move.

there we have it, the tongue it cheek dish at the conference and everything it is with the "i'm not bashing it" tag line. awesome! even summed up with the "i made the name"

complete with app and gsu are the victims of some attempt by the office to reshape things. it would seem to me appropriate to say that the home office has little control over shaping the league. thats the league presidents that do that

[ASUMountaineer]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Yes, App State the victims. xlolx xlolx xlolx

Carry on.

xpopcornx

xrolleyesx xcoffeex

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm a 1977 grad and well aware of what has been going on in the Southern Con for years. I produced a publication for the conference back in the 80's and actually coined the moniker SoCon. Guess I should have TM'd it. I knew Dave Hart exceptionally well, Wright Waters and Alfred White also. Prior to 1990 the conference had a strict rule against admitting non football playing members and that was the reason Davidson was shown the door in 1988. Waters, under pressure from FU, Citadel, Davidson & VMI, re-admitted Davidson, then adding UNCG and Charleston and essentially reshaped the conference. He later appeased the Gang of Four wanting to offset the imbalance of the public schools by bringing in Wofford. Alfred White was stone walled in his attempts to introduce more public university football playing members. He wanted EKU and (if memory serves me well) had discussions with MTSU. I fell out with the conference when Danny Boy Morrison was brought in. He set the course of the league in a decidedly different direction which continues today. I don't know any ASU folks who are mad or bitter about it, but I get aggravated when we get flamed for saying the SoCon doesn't fit us any longer and it is time to move.

I remember the Davidson history a bit differently. Davidson wanted to join the "Colonial League", later to be renamed the Patriot League, and go non-scholarship in all sports. But after playing one season in the Colonial League in 1986 (and maybe 1987), Davidson decided the hassle of travelling up North for so many games wasn't worth it - also, the Colonial League was only Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Holy Cross, and Colgate at the time.

I think, too, the reason they wanted back in the SoCon was they were concerned how true non-scholarship basketball would work. The Patriot League went ahead with it anyway, and I think through the lens of history we can see that it was pretty much a disaster which nearly broke apart the league.

[AppMan]

The SoCon is run by Furman, Citadel, and App alumni in Spartanburg. Georgia Southern applied for membership in the early 80's and it wasn't until 1992 that the conference held it's nose and admitted Southern. Not coincidentally, that was the last year that darling Citadel sniffed a conference title and Furman never did better than sharing a title with Georgia Southern and App State even though they had won the title 9 times the previous 15 seasons.

Many SoCon sports officials are alumni of App, Furman, and the Citadel and it shows in football, basketball, and baseball. The Citadel has won many baseball tournaments and I'm sure it helps that the conference tourney has been consistently held in Charleston for years save the few times recently it was held in Greenville.

The SoCon fancies itself a Wine & Cheese conference and is absolutely thrilled to be rid of the working class football fans (read rowdy) that have always made up a large part of the Eagle Nation and hopped on the App bandwagon in the mid 20-oh's. Muffy, Buffy, and Biff will be safe now from loud crowds while discussing the poor service at the country club and how wonderful the Obama'a are.

Hate to tell ya be ASU has had a passionate fan base for many years. No doubt the success in 2005, 06 & 07 had an impact, but the NC's, Michigan win and #14 were not totally responsible for the resurgence of the ASU fan base. We had crowds in excess of 20,000 back in the 80's & early 90's, but what happened to ASU was a couple of guys named Frank Borkowski and Roachel Laney. Once they were shown the door and competent leadership installed ASU football made an amazing comeback. Following the worst season in 15 years ASU averaged over 23,000 in 2005. That was leading up to the first national championship and 2 years prior the Michigan win.

[Saint3333]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Yes, App State the victims. xlolx xlolx xlolx

Carry on.

xpopcornx

The ring leader of predicting doom and gloom for App himself. Thanks for joining yet another conversation that has nothing to do with you. Per capita has anyone been more annoying than Lehigh fans during this offseason?

I really enjoyed Lafayette fans when they visiting Boone in the mid-2000's, very respectiveful and classy individuals. I think I've found my new FCS team to pull for.

[CID1990]

The SoCon is run by Furman, Citadel, and App alumni in Spartanburg. Georgia Southern applied for membership in the early 80's and it wasn't until 1992 that the conference held it's nose and admitted Southern. Not coincidentally, that was the last year that darling Citadel sniffed a conference title and Furman never did better than sharing a title with Georgia Southern and App State even though they had won the title 9 times the previous 15 seasons.

Many SoCon sports officials are alumni of App, Furman, and the Citadel and it shows in football, basketball, and baseball. The Citadel has won many baseball tournaments and I'm sure it helps that the conference tourney has been consistently held in Charleston for years save the few times recently it was held in Greenville.

The SoCon fancies itself a Wine & Cheese conference and is absolutely thrilled to be rid of the working class football fans (read rowdy) that have always made up a large part of the Eagle Nation and hopped on the App bandwagon in the mid 20-oh's. Muffy, Buffy, and Biff will be safe now from loud crowds while discussing the poor service at the country club and how wonderful the Obama'a are.

Hey look! Another bash the SoCon post.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[AppMan]

there we have it, the tongue it cheek dish at the conference and everything it is with the "i'm not bashing it" tag line. awesome! even summed up with the "i made the name"

complete with app and gsu are the victims of some attempt by the office to reshape things. it would seem to me appropriate to say that the home office has little control over shaping the league. thats the league presidents that do that

No matter what is said, some will always find a way to manipulate it to justify what they think. BTW, I DID come up with the name SoCon for The SoCon Sports Report in the early 90's. The conference didn't adopt it for use as the official logo until Alfred White asked me if they could use it in 1999. In relative terms your school just got to this party and you have no idea what you're talking about. Always remember, it is better to keep your mouth closed and have everyone think you're a fool than to open it an remove all doubt.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The ring leader of predicting doom and gloom for App himself. Thanks for joining yet another conversation that has nothing to do with you. Per capita has anyone been more annoying than Lehigh fans during this offseason?

I really enjoyed Lafayette fans when they visiting Boone in the mid-2000's, very respectiveful and classy individuals. I think I've found my new FCS team to pull for.

I'm so glad your week-old paternalistic, condescending instincts have made you root for Lafayette. Frankly, I see it as a match made in heaven.

[Saint3333]

This Lehigh fan calling anyone condescending is priceless.

[AppMan]

I remember the Davidson history a bit differently. Davidson wanted to join the "Colonial League", later to be renamed the Patriot League, and go non-scholarship in all sports. But after playing one season in the Colonial League in 1986 (and maybe 1987), Davidson decided the hassle of travelling up North for so many games wasn't worth it - also, the Colonial League was only Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Holy Cross, and Colgate at the time.

I think, too, the reason they wanted back in the SoCon was they were concerned how true non-scholarship basketball would work. The Patriot League went ahead with it anyway, and I think through the lens of history we can see that it was pretty much a disaster which nearly broke apart the league.

Davidson was basically independent in basketball for 88-89 & 89-90. They played in the Big South two seasons 90-91 & 91-92. Back in SoCon for 92-93 season.

[The Cats]

also reportedly, the elon president and ahtletics director still refuse to make a statement or confirm anything about the future of elon in or outside of the socon.


Wouldn't you say that's a good indication that Elon is in talks with the CAA?

[AppMan]

I'm so glad your week-old paternalistic, condescending instincts have made you root for Lafayette. Frankly, I see it as a match made in heaven.

That Lafayette squad was one of the most fundamentally sound football teams to ever play in KBS.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm so glad your week-old paternalistic, condescending instincts have made you root for Lafayette. Frankly, I see it as a match made in heaven.


This Lehigh fan calling anyone condescending is priceless.

xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Sandlapper Spike]

Wouldn't you say that's a good indication that Elon is in talks with the CAA?

I think most of their administrators have been in Europe with the women's golf team, so maybe they didn't feel like making a statement while teeing off on 17 at the Old Course.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That Lafayette squad was one of the most fundamentally sound football teams to ever play in KBS.

Truth. Had that BS call on that spot Leopards onsides kick not been made they probably would have won that game, IMO.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Hey look! Another bash the SoCon post.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Just telling it like it is. The SoCon has been inhospitable to Ga Southern since we joined. App and GSU are really carrying on the true SoCon tradition of growing up and leaving. Congrats to Furple and El Cid for hanging in there though. Enjoy Presbyterian and Gardner-Webb

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just telling it like it is. The SoCon has been inhospitable to Ga Southern since we joined. App and GSU are really carrying on the true SoCon tradition of growing up and leaving. Congrats to Furple and El Cid for hanging in there though. Enjoy Presbyterian and Gardner-Webb

Enjoy Georgia State and Louisiana-Monroe. Just "telling it like it is".

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Enjoy Georgia State and Louisiana-Monroe. Just "telling it like it is".

I will. I'll also enjoy home games against Duke, Wake Forest, and Navy as well as hearing my school's existence acknowledged by national media. I think I'll be especially excited to at least have an opportunity to play a C5 school in January in a major Bowl. I've attended 4 I-AA National Championship games that my school won - how many has Lehigh been to?

I think my opinion is grounded more in experience than yours. We've "been there and done that" in I-AA/FCS and we drew 8,888 fans for our last playoff game vs. Central Arkansas when we averaged more than 20K during the regular season. That tells me all I need to know about Georgia southern's future in FCS.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm so glad your week-old paternalistic, condescending instincts have made you root for Lafayette. Frankly, I see it as a match made in heaven.


Enjoy Georgia State and Louisiana-Monroe. Just "telling it like it is".

We will. Once we're gone, I hope you find something else to post about. Because, apparently, there's nothing going on with Lehigh.

[fc97]

Wouldn't you say that's a good indication that Elon is in talks with the CAA?

i dont think its any more of an indication of anything that furman and wofford coming out and saying they are firmly committed to the socon. after all, wku did the same type of thing last week.

[fc97]

No matter what is said, some will always find a way to manipulate it to justify what they think. BTW, I DID come up with the name SoCon for The SoCon Sports Report in the early 90's. The conference didn't adopt it for use as the official logo until Alfred White asked me if they could use it in 1999. In relative terms your school just got to this party and you have no idea what you're talking about. Always remember, it is better to keep your mouth closed and have everyone think you're a fool than to open it an remove all doubt.

its not a matter of who did it, its a matter of some anonymous message board poster and saying they did it. big lol to you

[Saint3333]

Some people actually make things happen at their school (or conference) vs. just posting on a message board.

[fc97]

Some people actually make things happen at their school (or conference) vs. just posting on a message board.

of course they do. but every one of us could post something that we've done and since it isnt anonymous no one would know to believe. people believing what they read on the internet is why kids are writing school papers off invalid information in wikipedia

[CID1990]

I will. I'll also enjoy home games against Duke, Wake Forest, and Navy as well as hearing my school's existence acknowledged by national media.

If that's important to you, then there's nothing wrong with that. However, within 5 years you will be just like an ECU fan, moaning about how you get no respect from the "big boys" from out of conference who refuse to come play you at home. You surely might get the Dukes and the WFs but you'll never get the UGAs and the GTs. There's plenty of legitimate reasons for GSU and ASU to move up, but if you think playing the BCS schools at your home base is one of them you are going to be disappointed.

BTW we already played Navy at home in 88. Beat em, too.




Sent from the center of the universe.

[cmaxwellgsu]

Enjoy Georgia State and Louisiana-Monroe. Just "telling it like it is".

Well enjoy whoever the hell you people play. Obviously, they aren't that interesting for you to obsessively post in every App/GS thread!

[asumike83]

If that's important to you, then there's nothing wrong with that. However, within 5 years you will be just like an ECU fan, moaning about how you get no respect from the "big boys" from out of conference who refuse to come play you at home.

I'd be thrilled if our home schedule eventually looked anything what ECU has been able to do. In the last 5 seasons, they've hosted VA Tech twice (and will again in 2013), UNC, NC State, West Virginia and Navy. It will take time but there is great long-term potential.

[CID1990]

I'd be thrilled if our home schedule eventually looked anything what ECU has been able to do. In the last 5 seasons, they've hosted VA Tech twice (and will again in 2013), UNC, NC State, West Virginia and Navy. It will take time but there is great long-term potential.

You're right about their schedule over the last 5 years.

But lets be honest. Anyone familiar with college football in NC knows about the long standing ECU inferiority complex, and so do you. Yes, UNC and NC State were pretty much a$$holes for many years, there's no denying that. But ask most football fans in NC whose fans have the whiniest reputation and you'll get ECU 90% of the time. How long was it from the time they left the SoCon (when D1 split into the two divisions) until one of the big ACC schools actually even deigned to consider a game in Greenville? 20 years? More than that?

Certainly we might one day see Georgia Tech in The Stink or Clempson in Boone, but it is going to be a while and there will be a lot of Rodney Dangerfielding going on well before that happens.

(BTW ill buy a tikket to see ASU whip an ACC team in Boone any day)


Sent from the center of the universe.

[asumike83]

You're right about their schedule over the last 5 years.

But lets be honest. Anyone familiar with college football in NC knows about the long standing ECU inferiority complex, and so do you. Yes, UNC and NC State were pretty much a$$holes for many years, there's no denying that. But ask most football fans in NC whose fans have the whiniest reputation and you'll get ECU 90% of the time. How long was it from the time they left the SoCon (when D1 split into the two divisions) until one of the big ACC schools actually even deigned to consider a game in Greenville? 20 years? More than that?

Certainly we might one day see Georgia Tech in The Stink or Clempson in Boone, but it is going to be a while and there will be a lot of Rodney Dangerfielding going on well before that happens.

(BTW ill buy a tikket to see ASU whip an ACC team in Boone any day)


Sent from the center of the universe.

I'm not that old and I'm not counting on seeing UNC/NC State in Boone during my lifetime. It took, almost literally, an act of congress for them to visit Greenville. Can't do the research at the moment but I'm pretty ECU was able to get home games with out of state FBS opponents (WVU, etc.) much quicker though.

I doubt the UNC/NC State question is even proposed in the near future. Just my opinion but I think than an out of state ACC/SEC school will come to Boone not too long after the next round of expansion is complete. Whenever that happens, it's going to be a party!

[AppMan]

Truth. Had that BS call on that spot Leopards onsides kick not been made they probably would have won that game, IMO.

How so? Lafayette lost by 11 and only scored 6 points (2 FGs) in the second half. They last crossed the goal line with 9:28 left in the 2nd qtr.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How so? Lafayette lost by 11 and only scored 6 points (2 FGs) in the second half. They last crossed the goal line with 9:28 left in the 2nd qtr.

They were ahead in that game when they tried the onsides kick that was incorrectly flagged and had just scored a FG I believe.

[CID1990]

I'm not that old and I'm not counting on seeing UNC/NC State in Boone during my lifetime. It took, almost literally, an act of congress for them to visit Greenville. Can't do the research at the moment but I'm pretty ECU was able to get home games with out of state FBS opponents (WVU, etc.) much quicker though.

I doubt the UNC/NC State question is even proposed in the near future. Just my opinion but I think than an out of state ACC/SEC school will come to Boone not too long after the next round of expansion is complete. Whenever that happens, it's going to be a party!

I went back and looked in the college football data warehouse, and the first big time school to visit Greenville was Miami (FL) in the mid to late 80s, I believe. They also got VT a couple times in the 80s before they really turned up the heat on their program.

WVU went in there a couple times as well.

But you have to skip all the way to around 1998 to see NCSU go to Greenville, and 2003 before UNC went there.

For the most part, from 1980-1990, the only visitors to Greenville were I-AA teams, and then mid majors like Tulane, UL Lafayette and Cincinatti.

Actually, I'll bet you guys would be able to get a home and home set with Wake Forest pretty easily, maybe within the first couple years of you going to FBS. You could probably throw BC or GT in there, too. But I agree with you that it will be forever before we see UNC or NCSU in Boone (and when it happens I will be there wearing black and gold).

[walliver]

Well enjoy whoever the hell you people play. Obviously, they aren't that interesting for you to obsessively post in every App/GS thread!

Actually, this isn't an App/GS thread. It is a thread about little ol' Furman, and the little ol' SoCon, and little ol' Wofford got mentioned once.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

If that's important to you, then there's nothing wrong with that. However, within 5 years you will be just like an ECU fan, moaning about how you get no respect from the "big boys" from out of conference who refuse to come play you at home. You surely might get the Dukes and the WFs but you'll never get the UGAs and the GTs.

Won't get UGA, but GT will be a possibility down the road. It would be a dream come true if we could be like ECU and average 50K in football with great donor support and 7,000 Student Eagle Club members! In fact, ECU is a school we are intentionally trying to emulate because we have a lot in common with our market-size, alumni base, history, etc.

[CID1990]

In fact, ECU is a school we are intentionally trying to emulate because we have a lot in common with our market-size, alumni base, history, etc.

LOL you're already more like ECTC than you know.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[PaladinFan]

Won't get UGA, but GT will be a possibility down the road. It would be a dream come true if we could be like ECU and average 50K in football with great donor support and 7,000 Student Eagle Club members! In fact, ECU is a school we are intentionally trying to emulate because we have a lot in common with our market-size, alumni base, history, etc.

What on earth makes you think GSU will draw 50k a game?

[Saint3333]

20 years ago I bet you would have said the same thing about ECU.

[asumike83]

What on earth makes you think GSU will draw 50k a game?

To be fair, his exact words were "it would be a dream come true". Doesn't sound like a bold prediction that GSU will be drawing 50K/game but as Saint pointed out, most would have probably said the same thing about ECU 20 years ago when their stadium only held 35K.

[CID1990]

To be fair, his exact words were "it would be a dream come true". Doesn't sound like a bold prediction that GSU will be drawing 50K/game but as Saint pointed out, most would have probably said the same thing about ECU 20 years ago when their stadium only held 35K.

Considering that ECU pretty much went I-A at the split just like WVU (both former SoCon), I would think WVU would be a better program to want to emulate. ECU is doing well now, but it took them about 40 years to get there.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Considering that ECU pretty much went I-A at the split just like WVU (both former SoCon), I would think WVU would be a better program to want to emulate. ECU is doing well now, but it took them about 40 years to get there.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Georgia Southern started football 30 years ago. The steps we're taking now are laying the foundation for the next 30 years. For ECU at the 1978 split plus 30 years = 2008. I don't think it will take 30 years for us. Based on alumni demographics, 20 years is a realistic goal to reach 35-40K average for football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Georgia Southern started football 30 years ago. The steps we're taking now are laying the foundation for the next 30 years. For ECU at the 1978 split plus 30 years = 2008. I don't think it will take 30 years for us. Based on alumni demographics, 20 years is a realistic goal to reach 35-40K average for football.

Averaging as much as Boise State, Navy, and Army, and more than Duke or Wake Forest. Good luck with that. xlolx

[fc97]

Averaging as much as Boise State, Navy, and Army, and more than Duke or Wake Forest. Good luck with that. xlolx

let it go man, they're gone. would be nice if they left the board completely, but even that was too much to ask. now they're no better than the uncc and georgia state fans.

[GlassOnion]

let it go man, they're gone. would be nice if they left the board completely, but even that was too much to ask. now they're no better than the uncc and georgia state fans.

Considering App is FCS until july 1st 2014, yes it was too much to ask.

[walliver]

let it go man, they're gone. would be nice if they left the board completely, but even that was too much to ask. now they're no better than the uncc and georgia state fans.

The next 8 months will be interesting. The SU's will be ineligible for the SoCon championship, ineligible for the playoffs (for the first time since 2003, both teams not play after Thanksgiving) and won't be ranked in the AGS poll. They will be out of the loop for much of FCS, and their new friends on the SunBelt board will have absolutely no interest in either team's schedule this year.

As a result, I suspect we will have multiple threads about:
1) alternative "polls" including ASU, GSU, ODU
2) alternative brackets for the playoffs
3) how bad SoCon officials are, and how great things will be with instant replay in the SBC
4) Celebrating all the little stadia they will never be forced to visit again.

[AshevilleApp2]

The next 8 months will be interesting. The SU's will be ineligible for the SoCon championship, ineligible for the playoffs (for the first time since 2003, both teams not play after Thanksgiving) and won't be ranked in the AGS poll. They will be out of the loop for much of FCS, and their new friends on the SunBelt board will have absolutely no interest in either team's schedule this year.

As a result, I suspect we will have multiple threads about:
1) alternative "polls" including ASU, GSU, ODU
2) alternative brackets for the playoffs
3) how bad SoCon officials are, and how great things will be with instant replay in the SBC
4) Celebrating all the little stadia they will never be forced to visit again.


Great idea! Let's get these started now. xnodx
















:p

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Averaging as much as Boise State, Navy, and Army, and more than Duke or Wake Forest. Good luck with that. xlolx

We've gone from no football to a 20K average in 30 years. South Georgia is poised to experience record growth, especially in the Greater Savannah area. As businesses and individuals continue to flee the unions and regulatory burdens of the northeast and rust belt states, there is every reason to be optimistic. Bulloch County (Statesboro) is the 27th fastest growing county in the nation.

Lehigh has been playing football for 130 years, has over a $1 Billion endowment, is located within an hour and a half of millions of people, and manages to draw just 8,000 per game?! I can see why you would wonder how App and GSU are going to grow, but we got this. We've got several high schools in our area that outdraw Lehigh in football attendance.

[fc97]

Considering App is FCS until july 1st 2014, yes it was too much to ask.

now they're using "we're fcs" as a reason that their here. nice!

[ASUMountaineer]

now he is using "we're fcs" as a reason that he is here. nice!

FIFY

I'm here because I've been posting here for years, I enjoy the banter on the site, and I am still, and will remain, interested in the FCS brand of football. I understand that my post flies in the face of your broad generalization, but oh well...it's time to get over it.

In keeping with my post to Ursus:xflaggedx

[asumike83]

Considering that ECU pretty much went I-A at the split just like WVU (both former SoCon), I would think WVU would be a better program to want to emulate. ECU is doing well now, but it took them about 40 years to get there.

WVU is a great program but they are also a state flagship university (ableit of a much less populous state than NC), so I'm not sure they are a realistic school to emulate.

I think App is much further along than ECU was when the divisions split back in the 70's. We've got a ways to go before we can approach the kind of facilities and attendance they've got now but our transition should be much easier. They had to suffer through 20 years of being a I-A independent after they left the SoCon. Personally, I was thrilled to see ECU get the Big East/AAC invite. If any school has paid their dues, they sure have.

[CID1990]

WVU is a great program but they are also a state flagship university (ableit of a much less populous state than NC), so I'm not sure they are a realistic school to emulate.

I think App is much further along than ECU was when the divisions split back in the 70's. We've got a ways to go before we can approach the kind of facilities and attendance they've got now but our transition should be much easier. They had to suffer through 20 years of being a I-A independent after they left the SoCon. Personally, I was thrilled to see ECU get the Big East/AAC invite. If any school has paid their dues, they sure have.

I've always been something of a closet ECU fan. In fact it was bittersweet for me when we traded our game with them this fall to help out ODU with their schedule.

My point about ECU is mainly that emulating ECU's success would certainly be good for both GSU and ASU, I don't think emulating their pathway to that success would be a very good idea. It took them a looong time, and fans accustomed to success like your likely wont be that patient.

I do agree that ASU is well ahead of ECU's starting point.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[asumike83]

I've always been something of a closet ECU fan. In fact it was bittersweet for me when we traded our game with them this fall to help out ODU with their schedule.

My point about ECU is mainly that emulating ECU's success would certainly be good for both GSU and ASU, I don't think emulating their pathway to that success would be a very good idea. It took them a looong time, and fans accustomed to success like your likely wont be that patient.

I do agree that ASU is well ahead of ECU's starting point.


Yeah, my father graduated from ECU in the early 70's, right around the time of the split. I've been going to games down there for a long time, the growth they've seen in the last 15-20 years is pretty incredible. It did take them a long time, I'm hoping for a much shorter turnaround for Appalachian.

I'm also hoping App gets a somewhat regular football series going with them sooner than later. It would have been very interesting to see El Cid play ECU this season. They have had some serious trouble defending the triple option. Navy put 56 on them last year and close to 80 a couple years before that. I'm sure they weren't too upset about canceling that one!