SoCon in 2016

[catamount man]

SoCon western division
- Samford
- Chattanooga
- Tennessee Tech
- East Tennessee State
- Western Carolina
- VMI

SoCon eastern division
- Elon
- Wofford
- Furman
- The Citadel
- Kennesaw State
- Coastal Carolina

[RadioFan]

Replace VMI with Mercer

[tourguide]

western Carolina wont have football in 2016

[walliver]

SoCon western division
- Samford
- Chattanooga
- Tennessee Tech
- East Tennessee State
- Western Carolina
- VMI

SoCon eastern division
- Elon
- Wofford
- Furman
- The Citadel
- Kennesaw State
- Coastal Carolina

If this were to come about, I suspect VMI would be eastern and Kennesaw western.

It also has been a very long time since anyone in the western division has won a SoCon championship (Chatty 1984).

I really don't like divisions in football and would prefer the conference stop at 9 teams.

[CID1990]

VMI and ETSU are the only ones I would bet on at this point.

Also VMI and The Citadel would be in the same group.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[superman7515]

So someone got an invite?

[Sandlapper Spike]

No. Someone had a dream.

[WataugaDave]

western Carolina wont have football in 2016

They need some vehicle for their world-famous marching band.

[fc97]

you can count on only mercer and kennesaw at this point. coastal is out. vmi and etsu have strong opposition.

[PaladinFan]

I can't help but think the SoCon would look first at the CAA. The Colonial (which I have a lot of respect for) appears to be more of a co-op of an amalgamation of teams with different interests. Some teams are trying to move out, some teams are cutting their men's programs, others don't play football, etc. I have long thought that we will one day see the time where the SoCon and CAA will come to loggerheads over programs to sustain long term viability.

My guess is that if there was some hint of interest, the SoCon would go after Richmond and W&M, two schools that are SoCon-like in that they (1) seem to be content playing the FCS, and (2) engage in most relevant sports, both men's and women's. They also would fit the institutional profile of many of the SoCon schools.

Also, Mercer's not a sexy name, but in my opinion, right now they would have the top basketball team and baseball team in the conference (and the SoCon is pretty good in baseball). They also have shown a real commitment to the football program hiring a name coach and I have been quite impressed with their facilities.

Just my two cents:

North: Richmond, William & Mary, Elon, Chattanooga, WCU, VMI, (Davidson)

South: Furman, Wofford, Samford, the Citadel, Mercer, Kennesaw State, (Greensboro)

[CID1990]

you can count on only mercer and kennesaw at this point. coastal is out. vmi and etsu have strong opposition.

How would a vote against ETSU or VMI break down? I don't see this strong opposition you are talking about.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[fc97]

How would a vote against ETSU or VMI break down? I don't see this strong opposition you are talking about.

right now both only have a 25% yes with the others waiting for "proof of trust" given how both made their exit. etsu has less support than vmi.

[asumike83]

Also, Mercer's not a sexy name, but in my opinion, right now they would have the top basketball team and baseball team in the conference (and the SoCon is pretty good in baseball).

I disagree.

Basketball maybe, although I still think Davidson is better. Baseball I definitely don't think they would be the best in the conference, they've finished 4th in the A-Sun the past two years and the SoCon is a stronger overall baseball conference.

I do agree that they would be a very strong addition in both sports and their football will be competitive sooner than later. Regardless of the public/private split, Mercer is solid. Start-up football is really the only thing working against them but they'd be in the top tier from day one in two of the three primary sports.

[CID1990]

right now both only have a 25% yes with the others waiting for "proof of trust" given how both made their exit. etsu has less support than vmi.

I think that when it is crunch time, those schools that are holding out will definitely opt for VMI and then ETSU to a slightly lesser degree. I think you are underestimating the comparative opposition to the other schools on the list, particularly CCU.

Plus, we will be needing football members. VMI is well established and ETSU, although a startup, has a football tradition and an administration that is more dedicated to the sport than the one that was in place when they left.

IMO, unless there is a total implosion in the CAA, Richmond will not be moving. W&M would be more realistic, but they are more tied to Richmond than most people think.

Personally, I would live to see VMI, ETSU, UR and W&M, but realistically I see the first two, followed by Kennesaw State and Mercer. CCU would be a LONG shot.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[kdinva]

right now both only have a 25% yes with the others waiting for "proof of trust" given how both made their exit.

I can believe that, and don't have a problem with that, either.

[fc97]

dont hate the messenger. i have no first hand knowledge. im not part of the meetings, just repeating what ive been told.

for etsu, there are about 6 presidents and a few admins in the socon that are saying no way no how. there's a lot of bitterness there. vmi has a software feeling, but there are holdouts for them to prove what they have to offer.

mercer is nearly a done deal from what im told and kennesaw too.

the caa is something of an interesting situation. the elon bot, im told, had a meeting where conference affiliation was discussed and voted on, whatever that means. no other information is available. but, what was said is that that act doesnt just involve elon.

[The Cats]

right now both only have a 25% yes with the others waiting for "proof of trust" given how both made their exit. etsu has less support than vmi.


50% is all they would get with ASU/GSU still in conference. If they depart, it drops. Both need to look elsewhere.


That Big South/A-Sun merger sounds good to me. I don't think the OVC wants ETSU, so they're not left with many other opportunities, unless the CAA is raided.

[fc97]

caa has told etsu that they have no interest. the caa is only interested in furman, elon and davidson from the south presently.

gsu is one of the schools solidly against etsu and vmi.

[PaladinFan]

I disagree.

Basketball maybe, although I still think Davidson is better. Baseball I definitely don't think they would be the best in the conference, they've finished 4th in the A-Sun the past two years and the SoCon is a stronger overall baseball conference.

I do agree that they would be a very strong addition in both sports and their football will be competitive sooner than later. Regardless of the public/private split, Mercer is solid. Start-up football is really the only thing working against them but they'd be in the top tier from day one in two of the three primary sports.

I am talking right now, though. Mercer baseball is 14-3 on the season and ranked in the top 10 mid-major poll. Yes, the A-Sun is not as good top to bottom at the SoCon in basketball, but they would be quite competitive in the league.

Basketball finished 24-11, carried wins over Florida State and Alabama, and beat both SoCon team they played (Furman and UTC). I am quite convinced the A-Sun, right now, is a better basketball conference (actually, I don't think it is particularly close). They averaged over 3,000 fans a game, which would be good for 5th in the SoCon.

I do not think they will be very good in football for a few years, but I don't think it will take long. They are already getting quite a number of transfers in from larger programs, and are in a football hotbed in middle Georgia.

[chattownmocs]

It's looking like Chattanooga may move to the OVC.

[CID1990]

I think you guys are going to be surprised how easily VMI will get back in.

I'm also not opposed to KSU and Mercer, I just think that the SoCon would be the only possible home for ETSU, and they will sweeten the pot as necessary to make it happen.

All four would be just peachy, IMO.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[asumike83]

I am talking right now, though. Mercer baseball is 14-3 on the season and ranked in the top 10 mid-major poll. Yes, the A-Sun is not as good top to bottom at the SoCon in basketball, but they would be quite competitive in the league.

Basketball finished 24-11, carried wins over Florida State and Alabama, and beat both SoCon team they played (Furman and UTC). I am quite convinced the A-Sun, right now, is a better basketball conference (actually, I don't think it is particularly close). They averaged over 3,000 fans a game, which would be good for 5th in the SoCon.

I do not think they will be very good in football for a few years, but I don't think it will take long. They are already getting quite a number of transfers in from larger programs, and are in a football hotbed in middle Georgia.

They're off to a very strong start but I still would not put them as the favorite to win the SoCon. App, Furman, Elon, GSU and Charleston all have strength of schedules in the top 40. Mercer's SOS is currently 78 and they've got 5 series to go with teams outside the top 200. I do think they'd be a nice baseball addition but winning a conference as deep as the SoCon would be a lot to expect.

Basketball would be a great addition that the SoCon could definitely use. The A-Sun is better in hoops right now but still not great. RPI isn't everything but the SoCon is #27, A-Sun is just ahead at #26. They'd be a contender right away, although I'm not sure they have a better team than Davidson.

[walliver]

It's looking like Chattanooga may move to the OVC.

Is this something you are hearing, or something you want?

[CID1990]

Is this something you are hearing, or something you want?

I'm not sure the OVC would want to upset their football balance by bringing in such a powerhouse program.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm not sure the OVC would want to upset their football balance by bringing in such a powerhouse program.

xlolx

[PaladinFan]

I think you guys are going to be surprised how easily VMI will get back in.

I'm also not opposed to KSU and Mercer, I just think that the SoCon would be the only possible home for ETSU, and they will sweeten the pot as necessary to make it happen.

All four would be just peachy, IMO.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I think ETSU will help their case by demonstrating a strong commitment to football. Part of that will be upgrading their facilities.

[walliver]

I think ETSU will help their case by demonstrating a strong commitment to football. Part of that will be upgrading their facilities.

ETSU will have to mend the bridges they burned when they forced VMI out for downgrading football and then turned around and asked to stay when they completely downgraded (eliminated) football.

[CID1990]

ETSU will have to mend the bridges they burned when they forced VMI out for downgrading football and then turned around and asked to stay when they completely downgraded (eliminated) football.

Yes, but if the SoCon is looking for a 4th football school (which is the direction I think they should go) that choice might well be between ETSU and CCU.

Don't think for a second that Furman, El Cid, Wofford, Samford, and Elon will choose CCU in that situation.

[catamount man]

I think ETSU will help their case by demonstrating a strong commitment to football. Part of that will be upgrading their facilities.

Considering ETSU may be throwing out $340,000/yr for the inevitable new head football coach, I'd say that's one hell of a strong commitment to football. And from I've gathered, they ain't stopping at the FCS level, albeit that move may be YEARS away. Would LOVE them back in the SoCon!

[catamount man]

western Carolina wont have football in 2016

whatever...........

[ASU_Fanatic]

Eewwhhh that's ugly

[catamount man]

They need some vehicle for their world-famous marching band.

Yeah, we're not a rival, but you can't help the dig. 0-11 in the Sunbelt in 2016. That's where I will find App.

[Eagle22]

I think you guys are going to be surprised how easily VMI will get back in.

I'm also not opposed to KSU and Mercer, I just think that the SoCon would be the only possible home for ETSU, and they will sweeten the pot as necessary to make it happen.

All four would be just peachy, IMO.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I agree. VMI would have stayed had ETSU not railed so hard about VMI floating the idea of moving football only out of the conference. ETSU got their just desserts on that later on when they folded up their football tent.

Mercer and Kennesaw State would be good additions to the SoCon, and adding both would actually help keep the league on the footing it is on. Both programs have good solid baseball, and I'm pretty sure Mercer football will be better than most expect it to be.

[ASU_Fanatic]

Yeah, we're not a rival, but you can't help the dig. 0-11 in the Sunbelt in 2016. That's where I will find App.

Lol

[pike51]

They need some vehicle for their world-famous marching band.

Yep... the world famous WCU marching band will perform at halftime for ETSU. :) It's a win/win for both schools!

[PaladinFan]

I agree. VMI would have stayed had ETSU not railed so hard about VMI floating the idea of moving football only out of the conference. ETSU got their just desserts on that later on when they folded up their football tent.

Mercer and Kennesaw State would be good additions to the SoCon, and adding both would actually help keep the league on the footing it is on. Both programs have good solid baseball, and I'm pretty sure Mercer football will be better than most expect it to be.

Article in the Macon paper today mentions Mercer as a possible fit in the SoCon. Ends with the somewhat bizarre comment of saying the A-Sun is probably as good as the SoCon if you didn't count football. Well, who the heck isn't counting football? Football is the one sport that, by and large, separates all of the conferences.

Notwithstanding that I disagree with the entire premise. I think Mercer would be successful in the SoCon in a number of sports, but I think most of the A-Sun teams would get pulverized weekly.

[walliver]

Article in the Macon paper today mentions Mercer as a possible fit in the SoCon. Ends with the somewhat bizarre comment of saying the A-Sun is probably as good as the SoCon if you didn't count football. Well, who the heck isn't counting football? Football is the one sport that, by and large, separates all of the conferences.

Notwithstanding that I disagree with the entire premise. I think Mercer would be successful in the SoCon in a number of sports, but I think most of the A-Sun teams would get pulverized weekly.

I suspect Mercer would prefer to associate with Furman, Davidson, Wofford and Samford more than USC-Upstate.

[asumike83]

ETSU/VMI make sense, they have history in the SoCon. I think Mercer would be a solid addition as well. Football may take a few years but they'd add a lot elsewhere from the start.

What I don't understand is why Kennesaw State is somehow ahead of Coastal Carolina in the pecking order. People knock CCU's academics but their profile is very similar to KSU:

KSU: #61 Regional University (South), $24.5M endowment
CCU: #63 Regional University (South), $23.5M endowment

Coastal has stronger baseball, stronger basketball and an established football program that would be competitive in the SoCon muck quicker than Kennesaw. If Mercer is added, keeping the SoCon in Georgia if GSU leaves, I just don't see the advantage of taking a second start-up football program when there appears to be a better option ready and waiting.

If App/GSU leave, I think the SoCon should grab ETSU, VMI, Mercer and Coastal. Kennesaw State could likely find a home in the Big South, cut their teeth in football and possibly be a solid addition down the road.

[CID1990]

ETSU/VMI make sense, they have history in the SoCon. I think Mercer would be a solid addition as well. Football may take a few years but they'd add a lot elsewhere from the start.

What I don't understand is why Kennesaw State is somehow ahead of Coastal Carolina in the pecking order. People knock CCU's academics but their profile is very similar to KSU:

KSU: #61 Regional University (South), $24.5M endowment
CCU: #63 Regional University (South), $23.5M endowment

Coastal has stronger baseball, stronger basketball and an established football program that would be competitive in the SoCon muck quicker than Kennesaw. If Mercer is added, keeping the SoCon in Georgia if GSU leaves, I just don't see the advantage of taking a second start-up football program when there appears to be a better option ready and waiting.

If App/GSU leave, I think the SoCon should grab ETSU, VMI, Mercer and Coastal. Kennesaw State could likely find a home in the Big South, cut their teeth in football and possibly be a solid addition down the road.

It isn't just academics that make CCU less attractive. It is also the location. There's not a lot of desire to add another SC school. That's why the non-SC schools are in agreement with the SC schools. It could happen, but I'd put money on KSU first.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[PaladinFan]

ETSU/VMI make sense, they have history in the SoCon. I think Mercer would be a solid addition as well. Football may take a few years but they'd add a lot elsewhere from the start.

What I don't understand is why Kennesaw State is somehow ahead of Coastal Carolina in the pecking order. People knock CCU's academics but their profile is very similar to KSU:

KSU: #61 Regional University (South), $24.5M endowment
CCU: #63 Regional University (South), $23.5M endowment

Coastal has stronger baseball, stronger basketball and an established football program that would be competitive in the SoCon muck quicker than Kennesaw. If Mercer is added, keeping the SoCon in Georgia if GSU leaves, I just don't see the advantage of taking a second start-up football program when there appears to be a better option ready and waiting.

If App/GSU leave, I think the SoCon should grab ETSU, VMI, Mercer and Coastal. Kennesaw State could likely find a home in the Big South, cut their teeth in football and possibly be a solid addition down the road.

Neither school really "fits" the SoCon. However, even if everything is roughly equal, KSU is in metro Atlanta and would instantly be the largest school in the SoCon (even if added today). That's a lot of easily accessible alums.

I don't really have a problem with Coastal. I do think the higher ups are disinclined to add yet another South Carolina school. Even then Coastal is remote with a student body not that much larger than several of the SoCon private schools.

[PaladinFan]

I suspect Mercer would prefer to associate with Furman, Davidson, Wofford and Samford more than USC-Upstate.

I guarantee they would. I do think that they have, like Furman does, an institutional identity with their conference.

[SoCon2013]

The SoCon will survive in some form or other if/when ASU and GSU depart. It survived after the schools left to start the ACC and SEC. It survived after ECU and Marshall left. It may merge with the Big South or whatever, but its basic entity will carry on.

[Saint3333]

I love that reply. I would compare the SoCon in the modern era coming out of the conference that gave us the SEC and ACC to the Ottoman empire that came from the Roman empire, but worse.

The SoCon will survive but can we stop claiming to be the conference that is associated with the SEC or ACC. If you would like to compare the SoCon pre-post App/GSU to the SoCon pre-post SEC and ACC programs the fall off will not be as drastic, it will be similar to the fall off of losing two "Marshalls", only the good, none of the bad, ;-).

[PaladinFan]

I love that reply. I would compare the SoCon in the modern era coming out of the conference that gave us the SEC and ACC to the Ottoman empire that came from the Roman empire, but worse.

The SoCon will survive but can we stop claiming to be the conference that is associated with the SEC or ACC. If you would like to compare the SoCon pre-post App/GSU to the SoCon pre-post SEC and ACC programs the fall off will not be as drastic, it will be similar to the fall off of losing two "Marshalls", only the good, none of the bad, ;-).

As a student of the Roman and Ottoman Empires, I must say your analogy little sense.

I will accept you intended another swipe at the SoCon, and just proceed from there.

[asumike83]

It isn't just academics that make CCU less attractive. It is also the location. There's not a lot of desire to add another SC school. That's why the non-SC schools are in agreement with the SC schools. It could happen, but I'd put money on KSU first.

That does make some sense, I guess I just disagree with the logic. If we were fighting for major media coverage, I'd certainly understand wanting to expand and not be so saturated in the Carolinas but that isn't the case. Including the non-football schools, there are 5 SoCon programs in NC and I'm sure the conference would welcome UNCW with open arms if they wanted in.

A potential add of CCU would put the conference at 5 schools in SC, I just think that what they'd add athletically as opposed to KSU would more than make up for the saturation in SC. Regardless, doesn't look like CCU is getting in the SoCon any time soon but I do think they would be a solid contributor to the conference.

[Saint3333]

As a student of the Roman and Ottoman Empires, I must say your analogy little sense.

I will accept you intended another swipe at the SoCon, and just proceed from there.

I swiped the SoCon with App in it, did you miss that part?

[CID1990]

That does make some sense, I guess I just disagree with the logic. If we were fighting for major media coverage, I'd certainly understand wanting to expand and not be so saturated in the Carolinas but that isn't the case. Including the non-football schools, there are 5 SoCon programs in NC and I'm sure the conference would welcome UNCW with open arms if they wanted in.

A potential add of CCU would put the conference at 5 schools in SC, I just think that what they'd add athletically as opposed to KSU would more than make up for the saturation in SC. Regardless, doesn't look like CCU is getting in the SoCon any time soon but I do think they would be a solid contributor to the conference.

Athletically they certainly would make a contribution. But CCU is one of those schools that in the future could potentially go into expansion mode, and without a comparable commitment to academics as a Wofford or The Citadel, that's the recipe for a school dumping a LOT of money into athletics. The majority of the schools in the SoCon are never going to expand their athletic programs significantly. Furman and El Cid fir example have remained relatively static in terms of our competitive level. Yes, schools like that have been left behind by the ECUs and the Marshalls and even current ACC and SEC schools, but we really have no desire to try to get into an athletic arms race. And that is the crux of why you will see the smaller established SoCon schools leaning towards other schools with similar priorities and goals. It is about stability and being able to maintain a level competitive playing field with your peers.

That is why Mercer and VMI are excellent fits, ETSU and KSU are acceptable fits, and CCU is not.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[walliver]

I love that reply. I would compare the SoCon in the modern era coming out of the conference that gave us the SEC and ACC to the Ottoman empire that came from the Roman empire, but worse.

The SoCon will survive but can we stop claiming to be the conference that is associated with the SEC or ACC. If you would like to compare the SoCon pre-post App/GSU to the SoCon pre-post SEC and ACC programs the fall off will not be as drastic, it will be similar to the fall off of losing two "Marshalls", only the good, none of the bad, ;-).


Losing "Marshalls" is a good thing isn't it.;)

The history of the SoCon has always been one of dramatic changes. It wasn't that long ago that West Virginia and ECU were in the league.

In the 16 years since Wofford replaced Marshall and dramatically increased the conference's TPF (Teeth per Fan) ratio, there have been two defections, and I suspect both schools (VMI and ETSU) regret that choice (The College of Knowledge doesn't count). The current trend toward smaller schools actually increases the conference's stability with fewer schools looking to "move up".

KSU bothers me a little, because I suspect that they will want to move to FBS at some point, probably using the argument that FCS doesn't work in Atlanta, ignoring the fact that anything that isn't UGA doesn't work in Atlanta.

[ASUMountaineer]

Athletically they certainly would make a contribution. But CCU is one of those schools that in the future could potentially go into expansion mode, and without a comparable commitment to academics as a Wofford or The Citadel, that's the recipe for a school dumping a LOT of money into athletics. The majority of the schools in the SoCon are never going to expand their athletic programs significantly. Furman and El Cid fir example have remained relatively static in terms of our competitive level. Yes, schools like that have been left behind by the ECUs and the Marshalls and even current ACC and SEC schools, but we really have no desire to try to get into an athletic arms race. And that is the crux of why you will see the smaller established SoCon schools leaning towards other schools with similar priorities and goals. It is about stability and being able to maintain a level competitive playing field with your peers.

That is why Mercer and VMI are excellent fits, ETSU and KSU are acceptable fits, and CCU is not.

So, why the big fuss about App State and GSU wanting to go FBS? There seems to be a disconnect here.

[asumike83]

Athletically they certainly would make a contribution. But CCU is one of those schools that in the future could potentially go into expansion mode, and without a comparable commitment to academics as a Wofford or The Citadel, that's the recipe for a school dumping a LOT of money into athletics. The majority of the schools in the SoCon are never going to expand their athletic programs significantly. Furman and El Cid fir example have remained relatively static in terms of our competitive level. Yes, schools like that have been left behind by the ECUs and the Marshalls and even current ACC and SEC schools, but we really have no desire to try to get into an athletic arms race. And that is the crux of why you will see the smaller established SoCon schools leaning towards other schools with similar priorities and goals. It is about stability and being able to maintain a level competitive playing field with your peers.

That is why Mercer and VMI are excellent fits, ETSU and KSU are acceptable fits, and CCU is not.

Now, that does make a lot of sense. Reps for you.

[The Cats]

So, why the big fuss about App State and GSU wanting to go FBS? There seems to be a disconnect here.

Everybody understands ASU and GSU desire to be FBS. We may not understand why you want to do it, but everyone understands that you guys think you can compete with the big boys and FBS is now where you belong, we get it.

However, the way your fans have behaved on your exit of the SoCon and FCS, can in many ways be compared with the Georgia State fans totally obnoxiousness since the day they announced they were adding football. It's the continued belittling of the Southern Conference and FCS that you guys do on every message board your fans can register on, that pisses off the remaining members of the SoCon and FCS family and gives you the Marshall comparisons.

If you were leaving with the class that ODU fans had as they joined FCS, there would be few negative posts about ASU or GSU.

It's just a shame you have to belittle and ridicule the conference you grew up in, just to make your bandwagon fans feel better about themselves and feel superior to the members of the Football Championship Subdivision.

[CID1990]

So, why the big fuss about App State and GSU wanting to go FBS? There seems to be a disconnect here.

Jeez dude. Listen for once, ok?

Nobody begrudges ASU or GSU moving up.

It's the constant "FCS is crap, the SoCon is crap, the small privates are crap, FCS is about to implode, the sky is falling" crap that people don't like. THAT'S what people here respond to, and some of you guys shouldn't be so dang sensitive to it because after all, this is a message board for FCS enthusiasts. Hells bells you guys are already being chided on the Sun Belt message board, and its for the same crap, only about how the Sun Belt is dying and can only bring the light by admitting ASU and GSU. Blame it on the precious few all you like, but the M.O. is the same and nobody should be surprised if people don't want to hear it. Take to Yosef's Cabin or some other echo chamber if you want everyone else to nod and agree with you.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[PaladinFan]

Everybody understands ASU and GSU desire to be FBS. We may not understand why you want to do it, but everyone understands that you guys think you can compete with the big boys and FBS is now where you belong, we get it.

However, the way your fans have behaved on your exit of the SoCon and FCS, can in many ways be compared with the Georgia State fans totally obnoxiousness since the day they announced they were adding football. It's the continued belittling of the Southern Conference and FCS that you guys do on every message board your fans can register on, that pisses off the remaining members of the SoCon and FCS family and gives you the Marshall comparisons.

If you were leaving with the class that ODU fans had as they joined FCS, there would be few negative posts about ASU or GSU.

It's just a shame you have to belittle and ridicule the conference you grew up in, just to make your bandwagon fans feel better about themselves and feel superior to the members of the Football Championship Subdivision.

Well, that and coveralls.

[CID1990]

Well, that and coveralls.

And eyes a little too close together.

Oh, and dental issues.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[pike51]

And eyes a little too close together.

Oh, and dental issues.


I'll take that over rampant homosexuality.

[ASUMountaineer]

Everybody understands ASU and GSU desire to be FBS. We may not understand why you want to do it, but everyone understands that you guys think you can compete with the big boys and FBS is now where you belong, we get it.

However, the way your fans have behaved on your exit of the SoCon and FCS, can in many ways be compared with the Georgia State fans totally obnoxiousness since the day they announced they were adding football. It's the continued belittling of the Southern Conference and FCS that you guys do on every message board your fans can register on, that pisses off the remaining members of the SoCon and FCS family and gives you the Marshall comparisons.

If you were leaving with the class that ODU fans had as they joined FCS, there would be few negative posts about ASU or GSU.

It's just a shame you have to belittle and ridicule the conference you grew up in, just to make your bandwagon fans feel better about themselves and feel superior to the members of the Football Championship Subdivision.

Sure. While I don't belittle the SoCon or FCS, I admit that we have some fans that do. Of course, right now App State is not leaving the SoCon or FCS. So, some fans would like to see the SoCon and FCS make some changes because there is a possibility that App State will remain in both for the foreseeable future. Some, maybe you, would disagree that any changes need to be made to the SoCon or FCS.

With that said, there are fans of other schools that incite some of the belittling by constantly criticizing App State's goal to move to the FBS and the Sun Belt as a potential conference home. The App State administration has set the goal to move to FBS. The fact that so many non-App State fans feel the need to rant and rave about how stupid our administration's goal is just makes no sense to me. And the fact that, knowing some App State fans will denigrate the SoCon and FCS, the fans of other schools with extreme sensibilities keep reading and responding on threads dealing with App State's FBS ambitions. That too, makes no sense to me.

Lastly, I don't understand why folks like LFN and yourself feel offended and get so upset just because some fans belittle the SoCon and FCS. This is an anonymous message board, stuff said here is not worth getting offended and upset over. Wouldn't you agree?

[CID1990]

So, some fans would like to see the SoCon and FCS make some changes because there is a possibility that App State will remain in both for the foreseeable future. Some, maybe you, would disagree that any changes need to be made to the SoCon or FCS.

I do disagree. I would much rather see ASU and GSU leave than to make the "changes" necessary to accomodate schools that ultimately want to play at a higher level.

You have summed up the point very nicely. We're fine with you leaving, we would be fine with you staying. Kudos to you if you do move up, but don't think for a second we want you to stay so badly that we are going to make the SoCon or FCS in your image.

[ASUMountaineer]

Jeez dude. Listen for once, ok? xlolx

Nobody begrudges ASU or GSU moving up.

It's the constant "FCS is crap, the SoCon is crap, the small privates are crap, FCS is about to implode, the sky is falling" crap that people don't like. THAT'S what people here respond to, and some of you guys shouldn't be so dang sensitive to it because after all, this is a message board for FCS enthusiasts. Hells bells you guys are already being chided on the Sun Belt message board, and its for the same crap, only about how the Sun Belt is dying and can only bring the light by admitting ASU and GSU. Blame it on the precious few all you like, but the M.O. is the same and nobody should be surprised if people don't want to hear it. Take to Yosef's Cabin or some other echo chamber if you want everyone else to nod and agree with you.

Well, you are the one that took the time and made the effort to go to the Sun Belt board looking for App State material to bring back here and start a thread to bash App State. Maybe you should stick to doing that on the Citadel's board if you want everyone else to nod and agree with you.

I'm not asking why you get pissed (and it's funny that you bring up people being "so dang sensitive"), I'm asking why you care so much to constantly take the time to read threads that will piss you off, and then respond to them knowing that the responses will piss you off? That seems ridiculous to me. There is a simple remedy for those such as yourself that "don't want to hear it." I don't like it when App State fans get on here and bash the SoCon and the FCS, but I also don't get why folks feel the need to comment in every App State/FBS-related thread if they "don't want to hear it." Why the need for the crusade?

With that said, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me as I haven't provided an opinion. I just think it's funny that the offended and pissed off can't stay away from App State/FBS threads. xthumbsupx

[Apphole]

I don't think you, me, or any actual FCS school official could change the image of the FCS. The American public has established it as a third-rate subdivision, the media deems the SoCon unworthy of broadcasting, some of the BCS schools are considering boycotting games against FCS schools and so on. Don't get angry for fans calling a spade a spade. This is the reality of the subdivision. Most of you are ok with it and that's wonderful, but our fans/administration are not. What you call bashing, I call describing.

[ASUMountaineer]

I do disagree. I would much rather see ASU and GSU leave than to make the "changes" necessary to accomodate schools that ultimately want to play at a higher level.

You have summed up the point very nicely. We're fine with you leaving, we would be fine with you staying. Kudos to you if you do move up, but don't think for a second we want you to stay so badly that we are going to make the SoCon or FCS in your image.

I don't think our administration is asking the SoCon to do things App State's way. I think that, as long as App State is a participating member, they would like to see the SoCon remain at the top echelon of the FCS and the admin has a particular view of how the SoCon should do this. That may be at odds with the current SoCon leadership, and maybe that's a driving force in App State's stated goal to move to FBS. I, personally, really like the FCS structure and hope that the NCAA does nothing but work to strengthen the FCS. I do have some concern that the NCAA is not as focused on the improvement of the FCS as it should be. Of course, I have concerns about the NCAA in general, as I think most do.

I have no doubt that most, if not all, of the SoCon schools will be fine with whatever happens with App State and GSU.

[PaladinFan]

Well, you are the one that took the time and made the effort to go to the Sun Belt board looking for App State material to bring back here and start a thread to bash App State. Maybe you should stick to doing that on the Citadel's board if you want everyone else to nod and agree with you.

I'm not asking why you get pissed (and it's funny that you bring up people being "so dang sensitive"), I'm asking why you care so much to constantly take the time to read threads that will piss you off, and then respond to them knowing that the responses will piss you off? That seems ridiculous to me. There is a simple remedy for those such as yourself that "don't want to hear it." I don't like it when App State fans get on here and bash the SoCon and the FCS, but I also don't get why folks feel the need to comment in every App State/FBS-related thread if they "don't want to hear it." Why the need for the crusade?

With that said, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me as I haven't provided an opinion. I just think it's funny that the offended and pissed off can't stay away from App State/FBS threads. xthumbsupx

I think we can all agree that the old adage of "don't crap where you eat" is probably applicable.

[ASUMountaineer]

I think we can all agree that the old adage of "don't crap where you eat" is probably applicable.

I'd agree if Charlie Cobb or Ken Peacock were making these statements. I don't think Apphole, or other App State fans, making these comments does much in the way of anything, except apparently annoy CID and LFN. I guess, there's some value in that. xthumbsupx

[CID1990]

Well, you are the one that took the time and made the effort to go to the Sun Belt board looking for App State material to bring back here and start a thread to bash App State. Maybe you should stick to doing that on the Citadel's board if you want everyone else to nod and agree with you.

I'm not asking why you get pissed (and it's funny that you bring up people being "so dang sensitive"), I'm asking why you care so much to constantly take the time to read threads that will piss you off, and then respond to them knowing that the responses will piss you off? That seems ridiculous to me. There is a simple remedy for those such as yourself that "don't want to hear it." I don't like it when App State fans get on here and bash the SoCon and the FCS, but I also don't get why folks feel the need to comment in every App State/FBS-related thread if they "don't want to hear it." Why the need for the crusade?

With that said, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me as I haven't provided an opinion. I just think it's funny that the offended and pissed off can't stay away from App State/FBS threads. xthumbsupx

It took NO time and effort. I googled "sun belt message board, clicked the link, and POW! There it was, your own sticky thread on the front page. It took about 10 seconds of my life. And why would I do that? Just a random thought? What could it have been?

As for "every App State/GSU thread", well you said it right there. There are a bunch of them, and they're all full of guys bashing FCS.

You're the one implying people are pissed. You need to look up "annoyed", as in, "Im annoyed at my 5 year old brother who says the same thing over and over and over and over."

When you guys go, watch how many of us follow you to the sun belt forums.

Now, I was talking about the dynamics of the small schools in the SoCon specifically just two posts ago, and you and Apphole have both jumped in with the same old "you're pissed, you're jealous, you're obsessed with us" schtick. Nobody makes my point for me better.



Sent from the center of the universe.

[Apphole]

I am not a SoCon basher, I'm a SoCon describer.

I think it's a wonderful league for those that are content within it, but that ain't us an I'm not going to apologize for looking a horse in the mouth.

[ASUMountaineer]

It took NO time and effort. I googled "sun belt message board, clicked the link, and POW! There it was, your own sticky thread on the front page. It took about 10 seconds of my life. And why would I do that? Just a random thought? What could it have been?

As for "every App State/GSU thread", well you said it right there. There are a bunch of them, and they're all full of guys bashing FCS.

You're the one implying people are pissed. You need to look up "annoyed", as in, "Im annoyed at my 5 year old brother who says the same thing over and over and over and over."

When you guys go, watch how many of us follow you to the sun belt forums.

Now, I was talking about the dynamics of the small schools in the SoCon specifically just two posts ago, and you and Apphole have both jumped in with the same old "you're pissed, you're jealous, you're obsessed with us" schtick. Nobody makes my point for me better.

Of course it took effort. You had to google, click, and read. Then come back to AGS, start a thread, and post the link and quotes. Even assuming it only took 10 seconds, 10 seconds is still > than NO time. :D

Yes, I did say "every App State/GSU thread." What you didn't say is that not all of them are created by App State/GSU fans, and at least one was created by you.

I also offer my deepest apologies for using the term "pissed," I will begin using the term "annoyed" immediately.

"Jeez dude. Listen for once, ok?" IF we move to the FBS, I have clearly stated that I don't think many SoCon schools' fans will care. I'm not sure why you need people to nod and agree with you, but here you go. xnodx

As to your last statement, my "shtick" as thus proven effective to getting you to respond. It's all for fun man...especially with LFN.

So, why do you feel the need to comment in each annoying App State/GSU thread? xhugx

[fc97]

the gsu ad did make the comments, and mentioned glances, rolling eyes and other things with charlie cobb.

for people like apphole who are acting innocent, thanks, that gave me a good laugh.

[ASUMountaineer]

the gsu ad did make the comments, and mentioned glances, rolling eyes and other things with charlie cobb.

for people like apphole who are acting innocent, thanks, that gave me a good laugh.

When Charlie Cobb or Ken Peacock denigrate the SoCon and FCS, I will say that I disagree with that. Of course, that wasn't the point of my post. The point was that when people on AGS do it, it's only effect is to annoy CID and LFN...nothing more.

[PaladinFan]

I'd agree if Charlie Cobb or Ken Peacock were making these statements. I don't think Apphole, or other App State fans, making these comments does much in the way of anything, except apparently annoy CID and LFN. I guess, there's some value in that. xthumbsupx

Well, extrapolate it. Take Cobb and Peacock and the SoCon out, and replace it with a App Fans on a message board heavily populated with fans of SoCon teams.

[walliver]

I believe the thread title "SoCon in 2016" assumes that ASU and GSU will be long gone by then.

How then has this become a ASU/GSU/SBC thread?

And as for those bashing The Citadel's homoerotic and sexist past, The Citadel now offers equal opportunity: http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20130313/PC16/130319718/1005/former-female-cadet-at-citadel-files-assault-complaint-over-alleged-strip-search

Although it isn't clear whether the formal cadet is upset about lesbian harrassment, or the fact that the men had to leave the room. The article also doesn't describe the smell that caused the strip search. (Most likely this was someone unhappy at the Citadel looking for an excuse to leave.)

[ASUMountaineer]

Well, extrapolate it. Take Cobb and Peacock and the SoCon out, and replace it with a App Fans on a message board heavily populated with fans of SoCon teams.

I get that. My only point was that Apphole's, Saint's, etc. comments on AGS about the SoCon and the FCS will have no effect other than to "annoy" certain posters on AGS. Only comments by Cobb or Peacock would have a substantive effect.

[CID1990]

One WAS created by me. And it was totally random too, huh? Out of the blue.

It's called validation. Maybe we were being a little too hard on you poor fellas? You need look no further than the front page of the SunBeltbbs to see that people over there are annoyed at you guys, too,

So maybe there's something to it? Or are you just misunderstood?


Sent from the center of the universe.

[CID1990]

I believe the thread title "SoCon in 2016" assumes that ASU and GSU will be long gone by then.

How then has this become a ASU/GSU/SBC thread?

And as for those bashing The Citadel's homoerotic and sexist past, The Citadel now offers equal opportunity: http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20130313/PC16/130319718/1005/former-female-cadet-at-citadel-files-assault-complaint-over-alleged-strip-search

Although it isn't clear whether the formal cadet is upset about lesbian harrassment, or the fact that the men had to leave the room. The article also doesn't describe the smell that caused the strip search. (Most likely this was someone unhappy at the Citadel looking for an excuse to leave.)

LOL you putz.




Sent from the center of the universe.

[ASUMountaineer]

One WAS created by me. And it was totally random too, huh? Out of the blue.

It's called validation. Maybe we were being a little too hard on you poor fellas? You need look no further than the front page of the SunBeltbbs to see that people over there are annoyed at you guys, too,

So maybe there's something to it? Or are you just misunderstood?

You're the one so hot and bothered, I'm sorry "annoyed," that you went to the Sun Belt board. I don't post on the Sun Belt board as I have no reason to, so I was unaware that they were annoyed over there until you took the time and made the effort to research it. xlolx

I said you created one thread...that's accurate. Clearly you were motivated by being annoyed to create that thread, I never said otherwise.

You're not being too hard on me, I just ask you questions and it annoys you.

I can't speak for the posters that annoy you by bashing the SoCon and FCS as I don't bash either. I just think your crusade is funny, and clearly you can't let it go even when I make it clear that I'm just egging you on. Keep up the good fight here on AGS! xlolx

[CID1990]

You're the one so hot and bothered, I'm sorry "annoyed," that you went to the Sun Belt board. I don't post on the Sun Belt board as I have no reason to, so I was unaware that they were annoyed over there until you took the time and made the effort to research it. xlolx

I said you created one thread...that's accurate. Clearly you were motivated by being annoyed to create that thread, I never said otherwise.

You're not being too hard on me, I just ask you questions and it annoys you.

I can't speak for the posters that annoy you by bashing the SoCon and FCS as I don't bash either. I just think your crusade is funny, and clearly you can't let it go even when I make it clear that I'm just egging you on. Keep up the good fight here on AGS! xlolx

What crusade?

While we're asking questions... here's one for you: Why don't you just scroll on back up and tell us exactly how this thread went from being about VMI/ETSU/KSU/Mercer to another pissing match about ASU/GSU?

As usual... a thread about something else gets turned into an ASU vs. the World thread by none other than ASU posters.

Edit: I agree, you aren't one of the usual suspects.

[ASUMountaineer]

What crusade?

While we're asking questions... here's one for you: Why don't you just scroll on back up and tell us exactly how this thread went from being about VMI/ETSU/KSU/Mercer to another pissing match about ASU/GSU?

As usual... a thread about something else gets turned into an ASU vs. the World thread by none other than ASU posters.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel at this point.

Would you mind researching the Sun Belt board again and providing an update. Maybe they like the App State posters now? xlolx

[fc97]

take back the thread!

so anyone in the footprint is in play, we know they started with 12 schools. we know they weeded a few out. we knows that the following are on the table in some form or another:
vmi
etsu
kennesaw state
mercer
uncw
richmond
coastal

anyone, not app fans, care to guess who the remaining of the 12 are? because guesses of high point, gardner-webb and presbyterian are going to do nothing but turn this into another pissing match

[ASUMountaineer]

take back the thread!

so anyone in the footprint is in play, we know they started with 12 schools. we know they weeded a few out. we knows that the following are on the table in some form or another:
vmi
etsu
kennesaw state
mercer
uncw
richmond
coastal

anyone, not app fans, care to guess who the remaining of the 12 are? because guesses of high point, gardner-webb and presbyterian are going to do nothing but turn this into another pissing match

I know I'm an evil App fan, but I would throw in Campbell as possibly being one of the 12 schools.

[ASUMountaineer]

What crusade?

While we're asking questions... here's one for you: Why don't you just scroll on back up and tell us exactly how this thread went from being about VMI/ETSU/KSU/Mercer to another pissing match about ASU/GSU?

As usual... a thread about something else gets turned into an ASU vs. the World thread by none other than ASU posters.

Edit: I agree, you aren't one of the usual suspects.

Thanks CID!

[fc97]

I know I'm an evil App fan, but I would throw in Campbell as possibly being one of the 12 schools.

i thought about that and they are covered decently in raleigh. but campbell is like a combination of a mercer/elon with liberty. a very strange place. and it doesnt look like they are going to go to a fully funded football program.

[ASUMountaineer]

i thought about that and they are covered decently in raleigh. but campbell is like a combination of a mercer/elon with liberty. a very strange place. and it doesnt look like they are going to go to a fully funded football program.

Probably not, but if there were 12, that's a lot of schools. Since it was just schools within the footprint, it's possible they were one of the 12 schools.

[LeadBolt]

take back the thread!

so anyone in the footprint is in play, we know they started with 12 schools. we know they weeded a few out. we knows that the following are on the table in some form or another:
vmi
etsu
kennesaw state
mercer
uncw
richmond
coastal

anyone, not app fans, care to guess who the remaining of the 12 are? because guesses of high point, gardner-webb and presbyterian are going to do nothing but turn this into another pissing match

I would love for W&M to be in the mix, particularly if Richmond and VMI are in, but have no knowledge of anything...

[CID1990]

It's like shooting fish in a barrel at this point.

Would you mind researching the Sun Belt board again and providing an update. Maybe they like the App State posters now? xlolx

Buddy, if that's research then a PhD should only take a week.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[fc97]

I would love for W&M to be in the mix, particularly if Richmond and VMI are in, but have no knowledge of anything...

if they could go after and get any of w&m, uncw, kennesaw, vmi, etsu, mercer or richmond, i think the conference would be sitting in a good position.

[PaladinFan]

if they could go after and get any of w&m, uncw, kennesaw, vmi, etsu, mercer or richmond, i think the conference would be sitting in a good position.

Sounds like a great mix. KSU would be an outlier.

I imagine if Davidson heads for other environs, UNC-G (the "forgotten SoCon school") will need to pack their bags. There's enough sentiment against non-football schools as is, but I can only imagine it being unsustainable if UNCG is the only one left.

[ASUMountaineer]

Buddy, if that's research then a PhD should only take a week.

Cool. Then you'll have a PhD in Sun Belt studies in no time--or at least 10 seconds, buddy!

So, do they like App State posters now? xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

Sounds like a great mix. KSU would be an outlier.

I imagine if Davidson heads for other environs, UNC-G (the "forgotten SoCon school") will need to pack their bags. There's enough sentiment against non-football schools as is, but I can only imagine it being unsustainable if UNCG is the only one left.

UNCG replacing ETSU in the A-Sun? Might be a good fit.

[AshevilleApp2]

THE SOUTHERN CONFERENCE WILL DIE A SLOW AGONIZING DEATH ONCE APP ATTAINS ITS RIGHTFUL PLACE AMONG REAL D-1 SCHOOLS!!


:D

[CID1990]

Cool. Then you'll have a PhD in Sun Belt studies in no time--or at least 10 seconds, buddy!

So, do they like App State posters now? xlolx

If you are asking me if they took down your very own sticky thread, I highly doubt it.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[CID1990]

There's enough sentiment against non-football schools as is

You can definitely count me in that mix.




Sent from the center of the universe.

[ASUMountaineer]

THE SOUTHERN CONFERENCE WILL DIE A SLOW AGONIZING DEATH ONCE APP ATTAINS ITS RIGHTFUL PLACE AMONG REAL D-1 SCHOOLS!!


:D

AA, that was rather douchey. xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

If you are asking me if they took down your very own sticky thread, I highly doubt it.

Nah, that's not what I was asking. I was just hoping that you had something new to report from the Sun Belt boards. You're my "go-to" for Sun Belt/App State fan news!

[CID1990]

Nah, that's not what I was asking. I was just hoping that you had something new to report from the Sun Belt boards. You're my "go-to" for Sun Belt/App State fan news!

I'm sure this is difficult for you to believe, but I have been there exactly twice. There's no need to go back; the moderator's scolding of "FCS fans" in the sticky thread intimidated me and made me feel unwelcome.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[fc97]

Sounds like a great mix. KSU would be an outlier.

I imagine if Davidson heads for other environs, UNC-G (the "forgotten SoCon school") will need to pack their bags. There's enough sentiment against non-football schools as is, but I can only imagine it being unsustainable if UNCG is the only one left.

uncg has nowhere to go. theyd be on an island in the atlantic sun, the caa doesnt want them and the big south is a worse solution for them. theyre going to have to grit and bare it. besides, the socon is going to pick up schools that dont play football in the conference anyway. the football vs not thing is a fan problem, not a conference is school presidents problem.

[AshevilleApp2]

AA, that was rather douchey. xlolx

Just thought I'd try and bring the conversation back around. xnodx





Of course, I've been on record against leaving the conference all along.

[Smitty]

Now I know we need some football schools, but what about UNCA? They have/had a decent basketball program and baseball.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm sure this is difficult for you to believe, but I have been there exactly twice. There's no need to go back; the moderator's scolding of "FCS fans" in the sticky thread intimidated me and made me feel unwelcome.

Say it ain't so, buddy! xshakefistx Where will I get my Sun Belt/App State fan news?!?

[CID1990]

Now I know we need some football schools, but what about UNCA? They have/had a decent basketball program and baseball.

We just got rid of cofc and already you want to replace them?

Lets enjoy our collective rise in IQ for a bit, first!


Sent from the center of the universe.

[fc97]

unca, seriously? people claim mercer is a small school. unca makes schools like elon, mercer and campbell look huge.

[ASUMountaineer]

Just thought I'd try and bring the conversation back around. xnodx





Of course, I've been on record against leaving the conference all along.

It was a valiant effort. I haven't really been on the record with an opinion, but I'm good if we go or if we stay.

[PaladinFan]

uncg has nowhere to go. theyd be on an island in the atlantic sun, the caa doesnt want them and the big south is a worse solution for them. theyre going to have to grit and bare it. besides, the socon is going to pick up schools that dont play football in the conference anyway. the football vs not thing is a fan problem, not a conference is school presidents problem.

I don't mind non-football schools. I just have a hard time getting a lifesize picture of UNCG being the only non-football school in the conference.

[CID1990]

I don't mind non-football schools. I just have a hard time getting a lifesize picture of UNCG being the only non-football school in the conference.

So what you're saying is that you don't have a problem getting thrashed yearly in basketball by schools that don't have to devote resources to football, AND that you don't mind that you don't get to at least return the favor by stomping a hole in their asses come football season?


Im being facetious of course, but in truth I think the argument that Davidson and cofc improve the quality of conference basketball across the board is a sham.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[ASUMountaineer]

So what you're saying is that you don't have a problem getting thrashed yearly in basketball by schools that don't have to devote resources to football, AND that you don't mind that you don't get to at least return the favor by stomping a hole in their asses come football season?


Im being facetious of course, but in truth I think the argument that Davidson and cofc improve the quality of conference basketball across the board is a sham.

I agree with you.

With that said, I do wonder how the SoCon would approach it if Davidson were to leave. If UNCG was the only conference member not playing football, would/could the SoCon kick them out, or would the SoCon adopt a 10/11, 11/12, or 12/13 format? Both options would be difficult to do.

[fc97]

So what you're saying is that you don't have a problem getting thrashed yearly in basketball by schools that don't have to devote resources to football, AND that you don't mind that you don't get to at least return the favor by stomping a hole in their asses come football season?


Im being facetious of course, but in truth I think the argument that Davidson and cofc improve the quality of conference basketball across the board is a sham.


Sent from the center of the universe.

i'm ok with the conference pulling in schools that pulls up the basketball rpi. its the only way the conference is going to restore its image in that category.

for the record, the conference bylaws prevents any member from being kicked out without meeting a list of criteria including huge ncaa problems, loss of accreditation and so on.

it is already on the table that the conference is looking for 1-3 more non-football schools.

davidson and charleston did/do pull the image of basketball in the conference up. theres no argument any other way about it.

[walliver]

Now I know we need some football schools, but what about UNCA? They have/had a decent basketball program and baseball.

That would give the SoCon 4 schools in the same TV market, two in the Asheville area. UNCA really adds little. Even though the SoCon has no good media deal, SoCon teams still get newspaper and TV news coverage, and markets do mean something. The SoCon did add CofC 15 years ago, giving the conference 2 teams in Charleston, but unfortunately the conference pulled CofC down to SoCon level.

I don't think a "decent" BB team from a school that brings nothing else will help the conference. I also don't think that baseball is really a major consideration for the powers that make these decisions - Chatty doesn't even have a team.

[CID1990]

i'm ok with the conference pulling in schools that pulls up the basketball rpi. its the only way the conference is going to restore its image in that category.

for the record, the conference bylaws prevents any member from being kicked out without meeting a list of criteria including huge ncaa problems, loss of accreditation and so on.

it is already on the table that the conference is looking for 1-3 more non-football schools.

davidson and charleston did/do pull the image of basketball in the conference up. theres no argument any other way about it.

I'm not talking about image though. I'm talking about quality.

Has Furman's basketball program made strides with the presence of Davidson and cofc? Has El Cid's improved? Has anybody's?

My impression is no, they haven't. We play our games, win a few and lose a few, then go to the tournament in order to bid farewell, adieu, and good luck in the NCAAs to Davidson.

Quite frankly, I don't see why Davidson would ever leave the SoCon; their presence in the conference all but guarantees them a yearly trip to the dance.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[GlassOnion]

That would give the SoCon 4 schools in the same TV market, two in the Asheville area. UNCA really adds little. Even though the SoCon has no good media deal, SoCon teams still get newspaper and TV news coverage, and markets do mean something. The SoCon did add CofC 15 years ago, giving the conference 2 teams in Charleston, but unfortunately the conference pulled CofC down to SoCon level.

I don't think a "decent" BB team from a school that brings nothing else will help the conference. I also don't think that baseball is really a major consideration for the powers that make these decisions - Chatty doesn't even have a team.

Why did the Socon abandon Sportsouth then? If your answer is money, then why did they cancel the free PBS coverage? Some is better than none right? They steadily declined to nothing, and it was the Socon's decision.

[CID1990]

I watched every single El Cid game last season on my TV.

You can too, GO.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[GlassOnion]

I watched every single El Cid game last season on my TV.

You can too, GO.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Media exposure, is not the collective handful of Citadel fans that seek out and/or pay $10 for some grainy game feed a few times a year.

[walliver]

Why did the Socon abandon Sportsouth then? If your answer is money, then why did they cancel the free PBS coverage? Some is better than none right? They steadily declined to nothing, and it was the Socon's decision.


Did anyone ever publish actual viewership for those games? I have never seen any numbers. I wonder how many "casual fans" chose to watch Chatty vs WCU instead of the SEC, ACC, B1G, and B12 games on at the same time. I suspect that GSU got more publicity from press coverage of their losses at UGA than from the PBS deal (which I don't believe was actually free.)

[GlassOnion]

Did anyone ever publish actual viewership for those games? I have never seen any numbers. I wonder how many "casual fans" chose to watch Chatty vs WCU instead of the SEC, ACC, B1G, and B12 games on at the same time. I suspect that GSU got more publicity from press coverage of their losses at UGA than from the PBS deal (which I don't believe was actually free.)

IIRC, the sole reason for dropping the 2 years left in the deal, was that Alabama and Tennessee refused to broadcast statewide, and that the deal "wasnt fair" to some schools.

[CID1990]

Media exposure, is not the collective handful of Citadel fans that seek out and/or pay $10 for some grainy game feed a few times a year.

I get it. You care about viewership for the Mountaineers outside of the normal fanbase.

Personally, I dont place a lot of importance on it.

BTW- the ASU feed and coverage on your site last year was excellent. Every El Cid touchdown was crystal clear on my 55 inch flat screen. The presentation was top notch, too. They kept saying "clinic" over and over.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[GlassOnion]

BTW- the ASU feed and coverage on your site last year was excellent. Every El Cid touchdown was crystal clear on my 55 inch flat screen. The presentation was top notch, too. They kept saying "clinic" over and over.




Ah, good. You found the "Charity" section. We were feeling bad about the 20 years of App over Citadel beatdowns building up in the archives. Hopefully 2012 will keep you going for another 20 years of mediocrity.

[PaladinFan]

Did anyone ever publish actual viewership for those games? I have never seen any numbers. I wonder how many "casual fans" chose to watch Chatty vs WCU instead of the SEC, ACC, B1G, and B12 games on at the same time. I suspect that GSU got more publicity from press coverage of their losses at UGA than from the PBS deal (which I don't believe was actually free.)

Good question.

I will say that watching Furman play Georgia Southern on PBS was almost unwatchable. I hadn't put a lot of thought into it, but watching a Georgia public university play on Georgia public television against an out of state private college was virtually a four hour GSU infomercial with a little football thrown in for kicks.

Look, the SoCon leadership is what it is, but they aren't morons. They aren't just throwing money at losing ventures just to see what it looks like. My firm belief is that the big conferences suck up all of the air in the room, and there's just not a lot there for the little guys. That's why you see the SunBelt play on Tuesday nights and whenever else someone will let them play on TV. I mean, there's a lot of football played on Saturday, and only so many places it can be televised.

[Eagle22]

Good question.

I will say that watching Furman play Georgia Southern on PBS was almost unwatchable. I hadn't put a lot of thought into it, but watching a Georgia public university play on Georgia public television against an out of state private college was virtually a four hour GSU infomercial with a little football thrown in for kicks.

Look, the SoCon leadership is what it is, but they aren't morons. They aren't just throwing money at losing ventures just to see what it looks like. My firm belief is that the big conferences suck up all of the air in the room, and there's just not a lot there for the little guys. That's why you see the SunBelt play on Tuesday nights and whenever else someone will let them play on TV. I mean, there's a lot of football played on Saturday, and only so many places it can be televised.

What sport does the SoCon want as the bell cow ? Sure, they'd love both football and men's basketball to have great public perception, but they do not have the $$$ to do it for both. That is the question that has to be answered honestly, and IMO is at the root of a lot of problems within the league's administration.

These problems were magnified by the addition of football-less schools to the league, who clearly have zero interest in diverting resources to funding TV football appearances in the fall. They have successfully lobbied to get more basketball on the air, but it is clear it came at the expense of football. While some of this can be attributed to the media dynamics that have played out over time, all one has to do is see there is more FCS football on the airwaves now, than there ever was when the SoCon was playing a weekly game on SportSouth.

That is a major step backwards, and that can only be dropped on the lap of the conference leadership. It may not make them morons, but it certainly calls into question the ability to LEAD.

Now, if you're saying the SoCon now has more of an interest in putting basketball on the air than football, and that it was a tactical decision to do so, then I think you'll find just one more reason why the ASU and GSU fans are ready to pull up the anchor and move to another league. I think the decision by the league to hire a basketball coordinator speaks volumes on what they want to focus on. Add in Iamarino's comments about chasing the big boys, and you start to get a picture that doesn't seem to portray football in the lead role it once had.

That may be the intent of the league, and I certainly understand the sentiment in there being a whole lot of other sports and other competition in the SoCon ... but you'll have to pardon the 45,000+ fans who collectively pack Kidd-Brewer and Paulson in the fall on Saturday's if they have alternative ideas on that intent.

[CID1990]

Ah, good. You found the "Charity" section. We were feeling bad about the 20 years of App over Citadel beatdowns building up in the archives. Hopefully 2012 will keep you going for another 20 years of mediocrity.

You are talking about your archives.

I watched it LIVE on the ASU network. Wasnt grainy at all.

And you had better hope ASU can get out of JHS with a win. It would be embarrassing for your send off from the SoCon to include two losses in a row to El Cid.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[ASUMountaineer]

You are talking about your archives.

I watched it LIVE on the ASU network. Wasnt grainy at all.

And you had better hope ASU can get out of JHS with a win. It would be embarrassing for your send off from the SoCon to include two losses in a row to El Cid.

Ehh...only losing twice in a row to West Carolina would be embarrassing. xnodx

[CID1990]

Ehh...only losing twice in a row to West Carolina would be embarrassing. xnodx

Well thanks, I guess.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[ASUMountaineer]

Well thanks, I guess.

You should say "thanks," it was intended as a compliment. The Citadel, though they haven't beaten App State consistently in the last two decades, always play tough and winning at JH is rarely easy. That's a testament to the players and coaches. The way App State lost to The Citadel last year was embarrassing, but losing to The Citadel was not.

[GlassOnion]

You should say "thanks," it was intended as a compliment. The Citadel, though they haven't beaten App State consistently in the last two decades, always play tough and winning at JH is rarely easy. That's a testament to the players and coaches. The way App State lost to The Citadel last year was embarrassing, but losing to The Citadel was not.

Who are you kidding?

2010 39-10 App
2007 47-21 App
2006 45-13 App
2005 45-15 App
2000 61-14 App
1996 26-11 App
1997 40-15 App
1994 56-14 App
1990 27-9 App

App owns the Citadel. And thats just the large spreads. How about next, we count the Ws?

App is 17-5 in the series since 1990.
Half of the Cit's wins came pre-Bill Clinton.

Pure ownage.

[ASUMountaineer]

Who are you kidding?

2010 39-10 App
2007 47-21 App
2006 45-13 App
2005 45-15 App
1996 26-11 App
1997 40-15 App
1994 56-14 App
1990 27-9 App

App owns the Citadel. And thats just the large spreads. How about next, we count the Ws?

I know what the records are, but thanks for the offer. I've been around for quite a while.

I didn't say that The Citadel won, just that they played tough. Furthermore, just because the scoring spread was large doesn't necessarily mean that The Citadel didn't play tough. Maybe I'm just channeling my inner-Jerry Moore. xlolx

Not all of the games you listed were at JH, and I don't see how the scores that you listed disagree with my statement. No need to get fired up GO, settle down.

[GlassOnion]

I know what the records are, but thanks for the offer. I've been around for quite a while.

I didn't say that The Citadel won, just that they played tough. Furthermore, just because the scoring spread was large doesn't necessarily mean that The Citadel didn't play tough. Maybe I'm just channeling my inner-Jerry Moore. xlolx

Not all of the games you listed were at JH, and I don't see how the scores that you listed disagree with my statement. No need to get fired up GO, settle down.

That record hardly indicates a team "played tough." They got rolled. No other description for it. They were as mediocre as their record indicates.

1/3 of the series are App State blowout wins.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

[ASUMountaineer]

That record hardly indicates a team "played tough." They got rolled. No other description for it. They were as mediocre as their record indicates.

1/3 of the series are App State blowout wins.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

Blah, blah. If you're looking to argue, or for agreement, try elsewhere.

[GlassOnion]

Blah, blah. If you're looking to argue, or for agreement, try elsewhere.

No. I came to talk about an unrelated subject, and as usual, a Citadel grad comes in and derails the conversation, and in a few minutes will post that its somehow Apps fault, and that he doesnt care about App, regardless of the endless hours and days, weeks and months he posts on the subject.

[ASUMountaineer]

No. I came to talk about an unrelated subject, and as usual, a Citadel grad comes in and derails the conversation, and in a few minutes will post that its somehow Apps fault, and that he doesnt care about App, regardless of the endless hours and days, weeks and months he posts on the subject.

Then why did you take issue with my post? Odd...

[GlassOnion]

Then why did you take issue with my post? Odd...

Im against appeasement and flattery.

I started off with a back and forth with Citdog, which I actually kind of enjoyed. And now Im stuck with Citdog's little tag-a-long hounding my posts. Its like a dingleberry you just cant shake.

[CID1990]

No. I came to talk about an unrelated subject, and as usual, a Citadel grad comes in and derails the conversation, and in a few minutes will post that its somehow Apps fault, and that he doesnt care about App, regardless of the endless hours and days, weeks and months he posts on the subject.

I think you need to scroll back up and see who started this thread, and then scroll down to see who first derailed it there, Francis.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[ASUMountaineer]

Im against appeasement and flattery.

I started off with a back and forth with Citdog, which I actually kind of enjoyed. And now Im stuck with Citdog's little tag-a-long hounding my posts. Its like a dingleberry you just cant shake.

Appeasement and flattery? What ridiculous things to "be against." xlolx Are you that bored, or do you really take message boards that seriously?

I'll keep that in mind the next time I am trolling CID, like earlier in this thread.

[CID1990]

I love that reply. I would compare the SoCon in the modern era coming out of the conference that gave us the SEC and ACC to the Ottoman empire that came from the Roman empire, but worse.

The SoCon will survive but can we stop claiming to be the conference that is associated with the SEC or ACC. If you would like to compare the SoCon pre-post App/GSU to the SoCon pre-post SEC and ACC programs the fall off will not be as drastic, it will be similar to the fall off of losing two "Marshalls", only the good, none of the bad, ;-).

Here you go, Saint. I'll help you out with your memory.

You must have been talking about some other thread.




Sent from the center of the universe.

[CID1990]

Im against appeasement and flattery.

Good!

52-28




Sent from the center of the universe.

[GlassOnion]

Im satisfied. No fan in the country would trade one 52-28 win over a 17-5 record with a nice track record of blowouts.

Keep recruiting team captains, we'll take the athletes.

[GlassOnion]

Appeasement and flattery? What ridiculous things to "be against." xlolx Are you that bored, or do you really take message boards that seriously?

I'll keep that in mind the next time I am trolling CID, like earlier in this thread.

Benjamin Franklin didnt think so. And that guy was a genius.

[CID1990]

I'll keep that in mind the next time I am trolling CID, like earlier in this thread.

You were only marginally successful in that, I might add!

[GlassOnion]

marginally successful

If only Citadel football could accomplish this...

[PaladinFan]

Im satisfied. No fan in the country would trade one 52-28 win over a 17-5 record with a nice track record of blowouts.

Keep recruiting team captains, we'll take the athletes.

Yeah, but.

Is it a persuasive argument for me to say that Furman has a winning record against App State? That we beat their butts throughout much of the 80s and 90s?

Probably not. At the end of the day, App got whipped by the Citadel in the last game they played. That dish will stay cold until the Mountaineers get another crack at them.

[CID1990]

Im satisfied. No fan in the country would trade one 52-28 win over a 17-5 record with a nice track record of blowouts.

Keep recruiting team captains, we'll take the athletes.

And I'll take beating you NOW over all else.

[GlassOnion]

Yeah, but.

Is it a persuasive argument for me to say that Furman has a winning record against App State? That we beat their butts throughout much of the 80s and 90s?

Probably not. At the end of the day, App got whipped by the Citadel in the last game they played. That dish will stay cold until the Mountaineers get another crack at them.

1 year is alot different than 2 decades, is it not?

[GlassOnion]

And I'll take beating you NOW over all else.

Beggars cant be choosers.

[CID1990]

If only Citadel football could accomplish this...

Considering that your idea of success means moving out of FCS for an outside shot at playing in the GoDaddy.com bowl and possibly cracking the AP top 40... yeah, I'll take my own metric for success, thanks.


BTW why did this thread turn back into ASU = great, SoCon/El Cid = not great .... again?

[GlassOnion]

Considering that your idea of success means moving out of FCS for an outside shot at playing in the GoDaddy.com bowl and possibly cracking the AP top 40... yeah, I'll take my own metric for success, thanks.


BTW why did this thread turn back into ASU = great, SoCon/El Cid = not great .... again?

The Citadel doesnt have a shot of cracking the playoffs, so whats the difference? My goodness, half the darn FCS gets into the playoffs these days, yet the Citadel is still AWOL.

This isnt a Socon isnt great conversation, its the Citadel isnt great conversation. And its what youve turned it into.

[ASUMountaineer]

Benjamin Franklin didnt think so. And that guy was a genius.

I don't think Benjamin Franklin wasted his time fighting against appeasement and flattery on an anonymous FCS message board, but I suppose I could be wrong about that. xwhistlex

[ASUMountaineer]

You were only marginally successful in that, I might add!

Pages 5 - 10 tell another story. xrulesx xawesomex

[ASUMountaineer]

The Citadel doesnt have a shot of cracking the playoffs, so whats the difference? My goodness, half the darn FCS gets into the playoffs these days, yet the Citadel is still AWOL.

This isnt a Socon isnt great conversation, its the Citadel isnt great conversation. And its what youve turned it into.

I thought it turned with your Benjamin Franklin impersonation? xlolx

[CID1990]

This isnt a Socon isnt great conversation, its the Citadel isnt great conversation. And its what youve turned it into.

OK MPLSBison.

BTW 52-28



Sent from the center of the universe.

[CID1990]

Pages 5 - 10 tell another story. xrulesx xawesomex

I'm only to page 4 in my universe.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm only to page 4 in my universe.

xlolx

[Sandlapper Spike]

I would love for W&M to be in the mix, particularly if Richmond and VMI are in, but have no knowledge of anything...

William & Mary may be a realistic option for the SoCon, particularly if the CAA loses George Mason and/or JMU. I get the impression the Patriot League would hold some appeal for W&M, though. Of course, there would be issues with that league in terms of the football program.

[CID1990]

William & Mary may be a realistic option for the SoCon, particularly if the CAA loses George Mason and/or JMU. I get the impression the Patriot League would hold some appeal for W&M, though. Of course, there would be issues with that league in terms of the football program.

I'm not sure they could be dislodged as long as Richmond stays put.



Sent from the center of the universe.

[fc97]

got two more names from a local media guy

florida gulf coast, eastern kentcuky and northern kentucky

[PaladinFan]

got two more names from a local media guy

florida gulf coast, eastern kentcuky and northern kentucky

FGCU is a relatively new athletic program at this level. They do not play football, but are in the NCAA tournament in basketball and have a top 25 baseball program right now.

I think EKU would be an option.

[CID1990]

What's the story with EKU? Are they sniffing a move?

They'd probably be a good fit, and a decent travel partner for VMI and ETSU.

[catamount man]

Yeah, but Charleston to Richmond, KY is about a 10 hr ride. I like, once App and GSU leave, VMI, ETSU and maybe Kennesaw. Still not sold on them totally. Everyone screams Atlanta market. In reality, people in Atlanta care about the Braves, Falcons and UGA and that's it. Not even GT runs the roost in their home city.

[CID1990]

Yeah, but Charleston to Richmond, KY is about a 10 hr ride. I like, once App and GSU leave, VMI, ETSU and maybe Kennesaw. Still not sold on them totally. Everyone screams Atlanta market. In reality, people in Atlanta care about the Braves, Falcons and UGA and that's it. Not even GT runs the roost in their home city.

Yeah, EKU would be toughest on us for travel purposes, but they wouldn't be that much of an outlier for everyone else. Samford isn't exactly the shortest trip, either. I like the rumor that EKU could be in the pot, though.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[Sandlapper Spike]

FGCU is a relatively new athletic program at this level.

FGCU is relatively new, period. Its first classes were held in 1997.

[Sandlapper Spike]

I'm not sure they could be dislodged as long as Richmond stays put.


That may be true. It would possibly make Richmond as a football-only member a bit more palatable if it meant W&M joined for all sports (along with VMI).

---

Honestly, I don't see the point in FGCU. No football, not in the footprint, not much in common with any of the existing members. EKU and NKU are also geographic outliers, and NKU is still transitioning to Division I.

I think the SoCon is going to have other options, but may have to wait for the Big East/CUSA/A-10/CAA/etc. shakeout.

[PAllen]

Dateline mid November 2016 -

For the first time in their long and storied rivalry, Lehigh and Lafayette will meet Saturday to decide the Southern Conference Championship. These long time Patriot League members, along with Bucknell, joined the Southern Conference in 2015 following a major shakeup in eastern college football. It all started when newly installed Pope Francis dictated that after the 2013 season, all Catholic universities in the US sponsoring Div I football must form a separate league, thus mirroring the successful realignment that had recently occurred in men's basketball. This instantly put Notre Dame and Boston College with Villanova out of the CAA along with Holy Cross, Fordham, and Georgetown out of the Patriot League now playing at the highest level of college football. After a set of moves and counter moves between the PL and CAA to save their respective conferences, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Stony Brook, and Albany broke from the CAA and added Colgate to form their own northeastern conference. In order to recover, the CAA poached Wofford, The Citadel, and Furman from their longtime SoCon home, along with former SoCon mate VMI. In late 2014 more changes hit the SoCon as Elon was offered (and immediately accepted) a bid into the Sun Belt Conference. With the North Carolina TV market covered, the SBC stated, in no uncertain terms, that they had no interest in adding Appalachian State who had long been lobbying for an invite. Their FBS dreams completely crushed, the entire ASU community committed mass suicide by moonshine, and sadly, that institution ceased to exist. Georgia Southern, have publicly vowed to follow the Mountaineers wherever their aspirations took them, quickly followed suit. With both leagues down to three teams, the Patriot League and SoCon decided to merge and keep the more historic Southern Conference name. Both Lehigh and Lafayette dominated all but the mighty Chattanooga in their first year of league play. This year, they have both made it through the season undefeated to this point. While this rivalry game is of the utmost importance to some older alums, the question on everyone's mind is: Will regionalization force Lehigh and Lafayette to meet in an early round playoff game? Or, will both be seeded in their proper position with home field throughout the playoffs before the ultimate rematch in the Championship game?

Hey, it could happen :)

[CID1990]

No, you forgot WCU.

They would wallop Lehigh in the title game.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[walliver]

got two more names from a local media guy

florida gulf coast, eastern kentcuky and northern kentucky

Your local media guy can't count.

[cmaxwellgsu]

No, you forgot WCU.

They would wallop Lehigh in the title game.


Sent from the center of the universe.


xrotatehxxbowx

[PaladinFan]

Yeah, EKU would be toughest on us for travel purposes, but they wouldn't be that much of an outlier for everyone else. Samford isn't exactly the shortest trip, either. I like the rumor that EKU could be in the pot, though.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Frankly, Charleston isn't close to much of anything.

[walliver]

Frankly, Charleston isn't close to much of anything.

It's close to North Charleston, Conway, and Orangeburg, but none of those three would be a good fit.

[CID1990]

Frankly, Charleston isn't close to much of anything.

Yes, but if Traveler's Rest wasn't right beside Greenvegas, playing El Cid would be you guys' only real opportunity to sample civilization, like dancing and not going to camp meeting on Sunday.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[AppMan]

Frankly, Charleston isn't close to much of anything.

That's what I love about it.

Campbell is a school located close to major metro areas. It is one of the larger private schools in the Southeast with about 7,000 students on the main campus. It has a Law School, Pharmacy School, School of Osteopathic Medicine and a Business School. It is close to Raleigh, Chapel Hell and Durham. Campbell screams SoCon, but I doubt the conference will even consider them.

[fc97]

That's what I love about it.

Campbell is a school located close to major metro areas. It is one of the larger private schools in the Southeast with about 7,000 students on the main campus. It has a Law School, Pharmacy School, School of Osteopathic Medicine and a Business School. It is close to Raleigh, Chapel Hell and Durham. Campbell screams SoCon, but I doubt the conference will even consider them.

campbell is on the list

[CID1990]

That's what I love about it.

Campbell is a school located close to major metro areas. It is one of the larger private schools in the Southeast with about 7,000 students on the main campus. It has a Law School, Pharmacy School, School of Osteopathic Medicine and a Business School. It is close to Raleigh, Chapel Hell and Durham. Campbell screams SoCon, but I doubt the conference will even consider them.

Bizarre.

I grew up in Yanceyville, NC and never knew Campbell was in NC.

Thought I was a Renaissance man.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[underdawg]

SIU Salukis start their Spring Drills this Monday (6:30 am) with new OL Coach and two new RB prospects (Ken Malcome of Georgia and Tay Willis of Highland CC.

[walliver]

SIU Salukis start their Spring Drills this Monday (6:30 am) with new OL Coach and two new RB prospects (Ken Malcome of Georgia and Tay Willis of Highland CC.

I suspect Illinois is well out of the SoCon footprint.

Citdog would have a stroke if such a northern school was even mentioned.

[kdinva]

I suspect Illinois is well out of the SoCon footprint.

Citdog would have a stroke if such a northern school was even mentioned.

about as bizarre as UR being a former member of the "Yankee" conference.........President J. Davis rolled in his grave when that was announced in the mid-'80s or such.