NASCAR Chase

[89Hen]

Good article by DW on the Chase...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/5915456

A combination of points, money won and wins — with wins being most important — would qualify drivers for the Chase and determine a regular season champion. Drivers would get bonus points for winning races and winning the most money over the first 26 races. The formula should have an emphasis on winning because it would wrong if Kasey Kahne doesn't make the Chase this year. He's got four wins, but if he's not in the top 10, he won't make the Chase. That's the fallacy with the current points system.

Thank you DW. I've been bitching all year that Mark Martin had no business being as high as he was. He finally dropped six spots to #10 this week. I've got nothing personally against Martin, but I sure hope his engine blows and Kahne passes him for the last spot. Kahne has 4 wins to Martin's 0. 7 top fives and 12 top tens to Martins 5 and 11. How in the world can Martin still be in front of him?

[bluehenbillk]

I agree, winning has to count for a whole lot more than it does currently.

[dbackjon]

In agreement with the two Hens - it is a shame that they are racing to stay in the top ten of a race, and not to win. Wins should count a whole lot more.

[AppGuy04]

How in the world can Martin still be in front of him?

3 letters, DNF

Martin has none, Kahne has 3, they hurt alot

Honestly, I think winning the pole should count

[89Hen]

3 letters, DNF

Martin has none, Kahne has 3, they hurt alot
Yup. And that's complete BS IMO. Every week somebody gets a DNF because somebody in front of them or next to them blows a tire and wrecks them. Probably 1/3 of all DNFs are not the driver or team's fault.

[dbackjon]

Yup. And that's complete BS IMO. Every week somebody gets a DNF because somebody in front of them or next to them blows a tire and wrecks them. Probably 1/3 of all DNFs are not the driver or team's fault.

And what really sucks is the DNF hurts a driver more than a win helps.

[LacesOut]

I have nothing to add to this wonderful and brilliant thread! All posts displayed are on point.

[UNHWildCats]

I dont know about winnings being part of the formula, since big name drivers are paid more then not so big drivers just for being there. Take a look at some race payouts, Dale Jr could finish 20th and win more money then the rookie finishing 12th.

They need to adopt a whole new scoring system. one like what is used in the IRL or F1. after a certain spot you dont get any points and the winner gets like 20.

1st - 20
2nd - 15 points
3rd - 10 points
4th - 9 points
5th - 8 points
6th - 7 points
7th - 6 points
8th - 5 points
9th - 4 points
10th - 3 points
11th - 2 points
12th - 1 point

This system would prodiuce the current standings of

1 Jimmie Johnson 186
2 Matt Kenseth 186
3 Tony Stewart 151
4 Kasey Kahne 137
5 Kevin Harvick 137
6 Jeff Gordon 129
7 Kyle Busch 122
8 Dale Earnhardt Jr 104
9 Carl Edwards 104
10 Denny Hamlin 103
11 Jeff Burton 97
12 Greg Biffle 94
13 Kurt Busch 86
14 Mark Martin 85
15 Ryan Newman 55
16 Jamie McMurray 54
17 Brian Vickers 39
18 Casey Mears 37
19 Elliot Sadler 37
20 Clint Bowyer 34

[AppGuy04]

No points for leading a lap?

[LacesOut]

Ok I'll also add.........Dover is less than four weeks and I'll be there for my 8th straight Dover race, in Turn 2 Row 40!!!!!

http://www.click4tickets.com/images/sports/nascar.jpg

[UNHWildCats]

No points for leading a lap?

leading a lap bonus points are a farce, teammates let teammates pass then return the favor all the time for 5 points.

Leading the most laps, I suppose could still be rewarded with an extra poiint or 2 but not for just leading one lap.

NASCAR should also award a point bonus for winning the pole.

[AppGuy04]

leading a lap bonus points are a farce, teammates let teammates pass then return the favor all the time for 5 points.

Leading the most laps, I suppose could still be rewarded with an extra poiint or 2 but not for just leading one lap.

NASCAR should also award a point bonus for winning the pole.

Yeah, I understand, but I definitely think leading the most laps and winning the pole should be rewarded, neither of which is right now

[UNHWildCats]

right now with NASCARs current system Leading a lap is worth 5 points, the driver who leads the most is another 5.

[dbackjon]

Awarding points for leading a lap is the worst part of the NASCAR system. Who gives a flying ***** if you lead a lap? NASCAR is the only "sport" that rewards you for leading 1/200th the way through the contest.

If Football followed NASCAR rules, you could get as many points for leading all the way to the last second as the team that beat you on the last second TD.


And Travis - great points system.

[grizbeer]

I think with the current technology they have they could score the race according to where you ran all race - use the current point system and apply points each lap based on where you are running, with an extra bonus for leading the last lap. This rewards drivers for running good all race, not lucking out and missing the big wreck on the last lap, or (ugh) a fuel mileage top 5 on a green-white-checkered finish.

[UNHWildCats]

I think with the current technology they have they could score the race according to where you ran all race - use the current point system and apply points each lap based on where you are running, with an extra bonus for leading the last lap. This rewards drivers for running good all race, not lucking out and missing the big wreck on the last lap, or (ugh) a fuel mileage top 5 on a green-white-checkered finish.

Actually this year they have a new stat available for average running position. Its logs each cars position on each lap and averages it out. yahoo.com writer Jerry Bonkowski or something, he uses the stats in his column from time to time.

That said, a I dont think that should be used. Thats like saying if a baseball team that has a bunch of ace starters and no bullpen, and are always leading til the 6th then struggle and lose tons of games in the last 3 innings be rewarded for being good 2/3 of the game even though they lose.

[grizbeer]

I understand what you are saying, and it is a good point, but the difference between motor sports and other sports is that there are 43 "teams" competing against each other at the same time in motor sports, where as with other sports it is always 1 team vs another. This doesn't lead to a good comparison between motor sports and other sports because of this.

Obviously arguing that the last lap is the only lap that matters has a lot logic behind it, but i think if every lap mattered we would see better racing - imagine a tight points race where you had to beat another driver every lap to get into the chase, or win a championship, not just bump them out of the way on turn 2 of the last lap.

[UNHWildCats]

crashes are part of the sport though, Champions avoid them the best the can.

[goasu984Life]

They should give points for leading a green-flag lap. If you stay out and lead a lap under caution, in the words of Willy Wonka, "You lose. You get nothing. Good day sir!" That is just a joke. How the hell does Kyle Petty get five points for staying out, leading a lap, pitting, then going back to 35th?

[AppGuy04]

The simpler the points system, the better IMO

[lambertjr]

I could see getting 1 point for leading a lap but it's nonsense that leading laps seems to have more importance than winning the race.

[UNHWildCats]

1 Matt Kenseth 192
2 Jimmie Johnson 188
3 Kasey Kahne 157
4 Tony Stewart 155
5 Kevin Harvick 137
6 Jeff Gordon 137
7 Kyle Busch 127
8 Dale Earnhardt Jr 119
9 Carl Edwards 113
10 Denny Hamlin 110

[Hansel]

They should give points for leading a green-flag lap. If you stay out and lead a lap under caution, in the words of Willy Wonka, "You lose. You get nothing. Good day sir!" That is just a joke. How the hell does Kyle Petty get five points for staying out, leading a lap, pitting, then going back to 35th?
How does Kyle Petty get to keep driving a Cup car at all?

[89Hen]

1 Matt Kenseth 192
2 Jimmie Johnson 188
3 Kasey Kahne 157
4 Tony Stewart 155
5 Kevin Harvick 137
6 Jeff Gordon 137
7 Kyle Busch 127
8 Dale Earnhardt Jr 119
9 Carl Edwards 113
10 Denny Hamlin 110
Much better. Kahne wins his fifth race of the year, more than anybody else and is still on the outside looking in at Mark Martin and Jeff Burton who have no wins between them. :nonono2:

[Baldy]

Much better. Kahne wins his fifth race of the year, more than anybody else and is still on the outside looking in at Mark Martin and Jeff Burton who have no wins between them. :nonono2:
Even with 5 wins Kahne's average finish is 15.6 while Martin's is 13.5 and Burton's is 13.5. He might have more wins than Burton and Martin, but he also has more 30th+ place finishes than either one also. The points are based on consistency, and there is no doubt Burton and Martin have been more consistent.

[dbackjon]

Even with 5 wins Kahne's average finish is 15.6 while Martin's is 13.5 and Burton's is 13.5. He might have more wins than Burton and Martin, but he also has more 30th+ place finishes than either one also. The points are based on consistency, and there is no doubt Burton and Martin have been more consistent.

And a major flaw in the points system. Rewarding mediocrity.

[goasu984Life]

How does Kyle Petty get to keep driving a Cup car at all?

He is the president of Petty Enterprises. He's not going to fire himself, even if he should.

[Eaglegus2]

He is the president of Petty Enterprises. He's not going to fire himself, even if he should.


Dave Marcus was into his 60's, but he continued to drive.

A little known fact is Dale Earnhardt helped fund Dave Marcus.

Dave was really a good guy. I believe Marcus had helped Dale in his younger days. Dale returned the favor as Marcus aged.

Dave also drove test cars for Dale at other tracks.

Had to love Dave driving with those wing-tip shoes.

[Baldy]

And a major flaw in the points system. Rewarding mediocrity.
Not really. Kahne's more mediocre 15.6 average finish isn't being rewarded.

[89Hen]

Martin's is 13.5 and Burton's is 13.5.
I'm not impressed with 13th place. :twocents:

[goasu984Life]

Dave Marcus was into his 60's, but he continued to drive.

A little known fact is Dale Earnhardt helped fund Dave Marcus.

Dave was really a good guy. I believe Marcus had helped Dale in his younger days. Dale returned the favor as Marcus aged.

Dave also drove test cars for Dale at other tracks.

Had to love Dave driving with those wing-tip shoes.

Dave Marcus still drives today. He tests the IROC cars and sets them up for the races.

[Baldy]

I'm not impressed with 13th place. :twocents:
Likewise with Kahne's 15.6. ;)

[UNHWildCats]

under no circumstances should NASCARS winningest driver not be in the chase.

[Eaglegus2]

Dave Marcus still drives today. He tests the IROC cars and sets them up for the races.


Thanks!!!

Good to know that Dave is still active in the sport.

Have you ever visited his shop up near Asheville, NC?

Dave donated lots of items when we did auctions for The Children's Miracle Network.:thumbsup: :hurray: :nod:

[89Hen]

Likewise with Kahne's 15.6. ;)
You are correct that 15.6 isn't an impressive number, but 5 is. Martin and Burton can really only hang their hats on 13. I'd take 5 wins and 15.6 any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

[dbackjon]

Kahne gets last chance to make Chase tonight -- starts 30th.

[bobcatfan06]

Harvick wins (woohooo), and Kahne makes the Chase.

Tony didn't get in, hahahaha. That punk deserves it.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Harvick wins (woohooo), and Kahne makes the Chase.

Tony didn't get in, hahahaha. That punk deserves it.

Didn't Stewert once say that if he were to fail to make the chase he should be fired????

[bobcatfan06]

Didn't Stewert once say that if he were to fail to make the chase he should be fired????

Yessir, that is the first thing on the recap of the race on espn.com. I think it's funny. Tony is the empitomy (sp??) of the pot calling the kettle black.

The 29 is going to take it all. Watch.

[saint0917]

I'm real glad Kahne and Martin made the Chase, and I'm REAL Happy that Stewart didn't xlolx xlolx

[UNHWildCats]

1 Matt Kenseth 197
2 Jimmie Johnson 188
3 Kasey Kahne 167
4 Kevin Harvick 157
5 Tony Stewart 155
6 Kyle Busch 142
7 Jeff Gordon 137
8 Dale Earnhardt Jr 119
9 Carl Edwards 113
10 Denny Hamlin 110

[89Hen]

I'm real glad Kahne and Martin made the Chase, and I'm REAL Happy that Stewart didn't xlolx xlolx
DITTO! :hurray:

[ISUMatt]

What is NASCAR?

[DotCat]

I'm real glad Kahne and Martin made the Chase, and I'm REAL Happy that Stewart didn't xlolx xlolx

I agree, I arrived at RIR Friday morning just in time to see Stewart back the #20 into the wall during "Happy Hour". It was a thing of beauty.

[bobcatfan06]

1 Matt Kenseth 197
2 Jimmie Johnson 188
3 Kasey Kahne 167
4 Kevin Harvick 157
5 Tony Stewart 155
6 Kyle Busch 142
7 Jeff Gordon 137
8 Dale Earnhardt Jr 119
9 Carl Edwards 113
10 Denny Hamlin 110

What is this?

[89Hen]

What is this?
That's UNHWildCats' scoring system standings. Been pretty good IMO so far. I really don't think Mark Martin belongs in the chase. :twocents:

[LacesOut]

They will be at Dover, DE in two more weeks!!! Can't wait!

[bobcatfan06]

That's UNHWildCats' scoring system standings. Been pretty good IMO so far. I really don't think Mark Martin belongs in the chase. :twocents:

Ah, just wondeing. Thanks.

[UNHWildCats]

Just want to update on the Chase Standings using the point system I was posting with in August and Early Sept. These of course mean nothing.

1. Jeff Burton 44
2. Kasey Kahne 41
3. Jimmie Johnson 35
4. Kevin Harvick 31
5. Jeff Gordon 28
5. Denny Hamlin 28
7. Mark Martin 17
7. Matt Kenseth 17
9. Kyle Busch 15
10. Dale Earnhardt Jr 12

These standing are based on just the top 12 race finishers recieving points like is the case with other racing series.

Points are awarded in this format from 1-12 (20, 15, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1)