Sun Belt May Control Fate Of Several Georgia Teams

[superman7515]

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/college/sun-belt-controls-future-several-state-teams/nWcfw/


The futures of Georgia State’s, Georgia Southern’s and Kennesaw State’s football programs may become slightly intertwined in the next few weeks.

Sun Belt Conference commissioner Karl Benson, along with his schools' presidents and athletic directors, may help untangle and clarify things directly for the Panthers and the Eagles and indirectly for the Owls when they meet March 9 during the men’s and women’s basketball tournaments in Hot Springs, Ark.

Georgia State joined the Sun Belt, effective July 1, because it wanted more regional rivals. That wish, and the need for the Sun Belt to expand, may set up an opportunity for the conference to add Georgia Southern and Appalachian State, current members of the Southern Conference. If they were to leave, that might open the door for Kennesaw State, which just announced it is adding football but has no conference home, to move to the Southern Conference.

Benson’s conference has eight football-playing members. It can remain at eight, but by doing so it remains exposed if it were to lose a school to another conference. The Sun Belt could use at least 10 to ease scheduling and at least 12 to stage a championship game. Benson hasn’t said which schools his conference is considering, but it has been speculatively tied to four: Georgia Southern and Appalachian State, along with Idaho and New Mexico State, who are independents. The earliest any team could join is 2014.

[TheRevSFA]

I was told by a real good SB source that WKU is leaving. Georgia Southern, App state and JMU are coming in

...it also will be decided on march 15

[Saint3333]

I would love to be in a conference with JMU, any Dukes fan out there hearing anything. A few months ago I didn't think they would be interested but with all shake ups they may view this as there only out.

[Laker]

I was told by a real good SB source that WKU is leaving. Georgia Southern, App state and JMU are coming in

...it also will be decided on march 15

Going to CUSA?

[dgtw]

I really don't see the upside of adding NMSU and Idaho other than just to be nice. Yes, it does give them a buffer space if they get raided again and helps them get a title game. But will the added travel really be worth it and will adding two crappy teams help the league's image? I understand adding FCS schools doesn't look good either, but bringing in traditional FCS powers certainly looks better than two doormats nobody else wants.

[dgtw]

Going to CUSA?

A rumor on the Sun Belt board is WKU to CUSA with Tulsa going to whatever the leftover Big East schools call themselves.

[TheRevSFA]

Tulsa to big east
WKU to CUSA
JMU app and ga south to sbc

[TheRevSFA]

For the record I don't buy in to most rumors regarding moving up and such, but I actually trust this guy with his accuracy

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Did anyone notice that the only people quoted on the record in that article was a Georgia Southern AD and Iamarino? There's a school missing...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Tulsa to the remnants of the football Big East
WKU to CUSA
JMU app and ga south to sbc

Fixed it for you, now that the Big East will be headed with the basketball conference.

Why WKU in CUSA, incidentally?

[SpeedkingATL]

Wake me up if/when App State actually gets an offer from the Sunbelt. I would like the Sunbelt better for App if JMU was included along with GaSo. Idaho and NMSU not very appealing IMO.

[TheRevSFA]

Fixed it for you, now that the Big East will be headed with the basketball conference.

Why WKU in CUSA, incidentally?

This is just what I was told. Isn't MTSU going to CUSA? Maybe ties in with them...

[Laker]

Why WKU in CUSA, incidentally?

With Petrino at WKU, he says that they will become the next Boise State. Maybe they are grabbing WKU before the MWC does. :D

[Lehigh Football Nation]

With Petrino at WKU, he says that they will become the next Boise State. Maybe they are grabbing WKU before the MWC does. :D

That will end well. xlolx

No way WKU becomes the next Boise State, who are (at absolute best) third banana in their own state. What an idiotic statement. Maybe next Petrino will be lobbying for WKU to join their rightful place in the SEC.

[PAllen]

I really don't see the upside of adding NMSU and Idaho other than just to be nice. Yes, it does give them a buffer space if they get raided again and helps them get a title game. But will the added travel really be worth it and will adding two crappy teams help the league's image? I understand adding FCS schools doesn't look good either, but bringing in traditional FCS powers certainly looks better than two doormats nobody else wants.

Title game is the only reason.

[superman7515]

Did anyone notice that the only people quoted on the record in that article was a Georgia Southern AD and Iamarino? There's a school missing...

Who? An article in a paper in Georgia, about schools in Georgia, talks to the AD from a school in Georgia, and the head of the conference that the school in Georgia is in... They were supposed to interview someone from AppState for ****s and giggles?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Who? An article in a paper in Georgia, about schools in Georgia, talks to the AD from a school in Georgia, and the head of the conference that the school in Georgia is in... They were supposed to interview someone from AppState for ****s and giggles?

Perhaps an email to App State might have been warranted since, oh, I dunno, they're MENTIONED as headed to the Sun Belt. Unless, oh, I dunno, App State didn't want to talk about it....

[Mr. C]

That will end well. xlolx

No way WKU becomes the next Boise State, who are (at absolute best) third banana in their own state. What an idiotic statement. Maybe next Petrino will be lobbying for WKU to join their rightful place in the SEC.

Only a person who has never been to Bowling Green, KY. and never been to the WKU stadium would ever compare Boise, ID. and Boise State to Western Kentucky in any way, shape, or form.

[Apphole]

Hey Citdog, I'm preheating the oven. Big sale on crow at Harris Teeter soon. Hope you're hungry.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Did anyone notice that the only people quoted on the record in that article was a Georgia Southern AD and Iamarino? There's a school missing...

There is a school missing from this article, but it's not Appalachian State.

It's Mercer.

Almost all the reasons the article listed for Kennesaw State possibly joining the SoCon would apply to Mercer as well (plus a few the story didn't mention).

[Laker]

Only a person who has never been to Bowling Green, KY. and never been to the WKU stadium would ever compare Boise, ID. and Boise State to Western Kentucky in any way, shape, or form.

Mr. C, I've been to Boise and seen the Smurf Turf, but not to WKU. Could you elaborate?

[RadioFan]

There is a school missing from this article, but it's not Appalachian State.

It's Mercer.

Almost all the reasons the article listed for Kennesaw State possibly joining the SoCon would apply to Mercer as well (plus a few the story didn't mention).



Yeh like Bobby Lamb being their Head Coach and his ties with SoCon schools. Plus if the SoCon does add Kennesaw and ETSU, I think they'll need to balance out the two big public schools with a private school, and Mercer fits that bill.

[superman7515]

http://savannahnow.com/column/2013-03-04/van-brimmer-sun-belt-shouldnt-be-only-bowl-league-option-georgia-southern


The soapy script on the Georgia Southern football bus windows read, “Just married: Sun Belt or bust.”

“Bust” has never been a more attractive option.

For better or worse, richer or poorer, the Eagles have married into college football’s top echelon. Objections were noted and disregarded, and this dissenter agreed to forever hold his peace.

Southern need not honeymoon in the Pedro’s South of the Border of big-time college football conferences, though.

The Sun Belt invitation is coming. The leaders huddle at the league’s basketball tournament this weekend, and they need to elect new members. Georgia Southern will almost certainly be among them. An announcement could come this time next week.

Too bad the Sun Belt is a league that’s been out in the sun too long — a tired, blistering, complainer that nobody wants to hang around, hence the pending exodus of four members. The Sun Belt has no cachet and its members no leverage, unless you count playing Tuesday night games on ESPNU (the U stands for unavailable).

Heck, Barack Obama has been president longer than some Sun Belt member schools have fielded football programs. Other gridiron newcomers, such as Old Dominion, snubbed the Sun Belt to play in higher-profile conferences.

If Georgia Southern is “tired of slummin’” in the Southern Conference, as one angry fan told me last fall, the Eagles better avoid the Sun Belt neighborhood like it’s a crackhouse at the end of a dead-end street...

[ASUMountaineer]

http://savannahnow.com/column/2013-03-04/van-brimmer-sun-belt-shouldnt-be-only-bowl-league-option-georgia-southern

He's a little loose with the facts, especially saying that Chattanooga has a "quality and tradition-rich" football program. xlolx

[chattownmocs]

He's a little loose with the facts, especially saying that Chattanooga has a "quality and tradition-rich" football program. xlolx

Or saying that they are a Division 1-A aspirant.

[chattownmocs]

Or saying that they are a Division 1-A aspirant.

Although 5 years down the road I don't think they Hypothetical league would be much worse than say, Sun Belt+ App State, Georgia Southern.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Although 5 years down the road I don't think they Hypothetical league would be much worse than say, Sun Belt+ App State, Georgia Southern.

I'm glad we'll have Ga State in the Sun Belt. Otherwise, I would miss the experience of homeless people and crackheads begging for money that I get every other year when visiting Chattanooga.

[Apphole]

I'm glad we'll have Ga State in the Sun Belt. Otherwise, I would miss the experience of homeless people and crackheads begging for money that I get every other year when visiting Chattanooga.

They will also serve as a WCU-like whipping boy.

[Mr. C]

Mr. C, I've been to Boise and seen the Smurf Turf, but not to WKU. Could you elaborate?

My main point is that Boise, ID. is a major town in its region (210,000 population and one of the 100 largest metro regions in the U.S. with approximately 615,000), with a thriving economy and lots of dollars to spend on the Boise State program. Bowling Green is as podunk as podunk gets for a town of under 60,000 and a metro region of less than 130,000. There just isn't much there and it is an hour away from Nashville, the closest big city. The biggest claim to fame for Bowling Green is that it houses the factories where Corvettes and Cadillacs are manufactured.

WKU had one of the worst atmospheres I've ever seen for games when the Hilltoppers were still in FCS and the stadium there was sub-par, with mostly one side for seating. They have since refurbished and expanded the stadium, but I can't imagine that there is much more atmosphere than when they drew a few thousand people for a playoff game.

[Mr. C]

He's a little loose with the facts, especially saying that Chattanooga has a "quality and tradition-rich" football program. xlolx

I respect Adam's opinions for the most part, but he doesn't really understand the obstacles there are to forming a new league. The current schools in FBS are not going to allow a new FBS conference to happen.

[Laker]

My main point is that Boise, ID. is a major town in its region (210,000 population and one of the 100 largest metro regions in the U.S.
WKU had one of the worst atmospheres I've ever seen for games.

xthumbsupx Thanks! This makes sense to me.

[CID1990]

They will also serve as a WCU-like whipping boy.

You guys should just give WCU that jug out of sympathy when you leave.

Then maybe you can start up a new tradition.... like playing GSU for the Golden Bong. Or Ga Southern for the Magical Dentures.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[Apphole]

You guys should just give WCU that jug out of sympathy when you leave.

Then maybe you can start up a new tradition.... like playing GSU for the Golden Bong. Or Ga Southern for the Magical Dentures.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Fine with me. That jug just collects dust since it never goes anywhere. God knows, we could use the space in the trophy case. That thing is just too crowded.

I like the idea of a golden bong game. Maybe we can have a yearly BBall game with UNC-Asheville.

[walliver]

He's a little loose with the facts, especially saying that Chattanooga has a "quality and tradition-rich" football program. xlolx

Chatty does have a "tradition-rich" program, just not much lately.

It is interesting how often Chatty is brought up by non-UTC fans when talking about FBS move-ups. I guess the name recognition from the Choo Choo song is greater than that of Statesboro Blues .

[ASUMountaineer]

Or saying that they are a Division 1-A aspirant.

True.

[ASUMountaineer]

I respect Adam's opinions for the most part, but he doesn't really understand the obstacles there are to forming a new league. The current schools in FBS are not going to allow a new FBS conference to happen.

My biggest problem with his article is that it is filed under "News." It should be labeled as an opinion piece.

[ASUMountaineer]

Chatty does have a "tradition-rich" program, just not much lately.

It is interesting how often Chatty is brought up by non-UTC fans when talking about FBS move-ups. I guess the name recognition from the Choo Choo song is greater than that of Statesboro Blues .

I noticed you left out, "quality." xshhhx

You have to go back a long ways, no conference championship since 1984. No FCS playoffs since 1984.

UTC is brought up because of it's market and the Sun Belt's lost presence in Tennessee.

[ASUMountaineer]

Fine with me. That jug just collects dust since it never goes anywhere. God knows, we could use the space in the trophy case. That thing is just too crowded.

I like the idea of a golden bong game. Maybe we can have a yearly BBall game with UNC-Asheville.

It's better than a corn dog game...or is that a pewter dong trophy?

http://cdn77.psbin.com/img/mw=450/cr=n/d=limk6/q00f6nj49gbtp04e.jpg

[CID1990]

It's better than a corn dog game...or is that a pewter dong trophy?

http://cdn77.psbin.com/img/mw=450/cr=n/d=limk6/q00f6nj49gbtp04e.jpg

You lay off my corn dog, Mister.


BTW- occasionally, if corn dogs are served in the chow hall on Fridays, cadets will take them back to their rooms and paint them black with shoe dressing, put them in their shakos and march Friday parade with them. Rumor was when I was there that's why we never had corn dogs on Fridays. Personally I think it was because of the Catholics and therefore we had cheese fush on Fridays. That said, not having corn dogs on Fridays so that cadets wont put them in their shakos is a better story.

Oh, and that thing has almost as much dust on it as you guys' jug.

[Skjellyfetti]

BTW- occasionally, if corn dogs are served in the chow hall on Fridays, cadets will take them back to their rooms and paint them black with shoe dressing, put them in their shakos and march Friday parade with them. Rumor was when I was there that's why we never had corn dogs on Fridays. Personally I think it was because of the Catholics and therefore we had cheese fush on Fridays. That said, not having corn dogs on Fridays so that cadets wont put them in their shakos is a better story.

Good lord. Sounds like an absolutely miserable existence.

[CID1990]

Good lord. Sounds like an absolutely miserable existence.

I know.

Why put a corn dog on your hat when you can just shove it up your poop chute?


Sent from the center of the universe.

[dgtw]

Would the mother ship even allow UTC to join the big boys?

[seantaylor]

Never heard anyone ever mention Chatty as a football program of excellent tradition.

[ASUMountaineer]

You lay off my corn dog, Mister.


BTW- occasionally, if corn dogs are served in the chow hall on Fridays, cadets will take them back to their rooms and paint them black with shoe dressing, put them in their shakos and march Friday parade with them. Rumor was when I was there that's why we never had corn dogs on Fridays. Personally I think it was because of the Catholics and therefore we had cheese fush on Fridays. That said, not having corn dogs on Fridays so that cadets wont put them in their shakos is a better story.

Oh, and that thing has almost as much dust on it as you guys' jug.

xlolx That was an excellent post, CID. xsmileyclapx

Leaps and bounds better than Citdog's.

Yes, lately you guys have owned VMI in football...not so much in cheerleading though.

http://www.postandcourier.com/storyimage/CP/20111029/PC20/310299938/AR/0/AR-310299938.jpg&q=100&maxh=300

[SpiritCymbal]

http://savannahnow.com/column/2013-03-04/van-brimmer-sun-belt-shouldnt-be-only-bowl-league-option-georgia-southern

Good response from Matt Yogus in the Statesboro Blab today.

http://www.statesboroherald.com/section/291/article/48429/

[SpiritCymbal]

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/college/sun-belt-controls-future-several-state-teams/nWcfw/

Not really the same line of thought, but close enough. Last week the Ga. State beat writer for AJC asked fans of both GSU schools to chime in on why Ga. Southern would/wouldn't be a good fit for the SBC. Here's the response.

http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/georgia-state-sports/2013/mar/06/heres-why-you-say-eagles-should-join-panthers-sun-/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So let me get this perfectly straight. The Sun Belt is the best option for Georgia Southern because:

* Georgia State needs an in-state rival
* If Georgia Southern goes to the Sun Belt, App State will likely follow
* The Sun Belt has a TV deal that pays no money
* Georgia Southern will give the Sun Belt legitimacy

I'm not making this stuff up, I'm pulling it right from the rah-rah pieces posted here.

A tip. When you're trying to sell a move to the FBS, and then turn around and say "when we get there, we'll give our conference legitimacy!".... well.... let me know how that works out.

[Saint3333]

The alternative is a conference that has no TV contract.

I do agree that App and GSU are forcing each others hand somewhat, neither AD wants to face their fanbase should the other move and they stay.

[MplsBison]

So let me get this perfectly straight. The Sun Belt is the best option for Georgia Southern because:

* Georgia State needs an in-state rival
* If Georgia Southern goes to the Sun Belt, App State will likely follow
* The Sun Belt has a TV deal that pays no money
* Georgia Southern will give the Sun Belt legitimacy

I'm not making this stuff up, I'm pulling it right from the rah-rah pieces posted here.

A tip. When you're trying to sell a move to the FBS, and then turn around and say "when we get there, we'll give our conference legitimacy!".... well.... let me know how that works out.

My guess is it will work out better than FCS, a level of play that costs nearly as much as the Sun Belt while being dismissed in the same breath as DII and DIII by the national sports media and even the NCAA.

[ASUMountaineer]

So let me get this perfectly straight. The Sun Belt is the best option for Georgia Southern because:

* Georgia State needs an in-state rival
* If Georgia Southern goes to the Sun Belt, App State will likely follow
* The Sun Belt has a TV deal that pays no money
* Georgia Southern will give the Sun Belt legitimacy

I'm not making this stuff up, I'm pulling it right from the rah-rah pieces posted here.

A tip. When you're trying to sell a move to the FBS, and then turn around and say "when we get there, we'll give our conference legitimacy!".... well.... let me know how that works out.

Cool story. The good news is, that anonymous posters here are not actually "selling a move to the FBS." The administrations and the BOT's of both App State and GSU have already done the leg work and made the sell. It's time for you to get over it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Cool story. The good news is, that anonymous posters here are not actually "selling a move to the FBS." The administrations and the BOT's of both App State and GSU have already done the leg work and made the sell. It's time for you to get over it.

So, to reiterate, Georgia Southern's sell job is that "we're going to make your conference legitimate". xlolx

And, your big "in-state" rival Georgia "Cash Drop" State isn't. xlolx

And Georgia Southern will be forcing App State to join this "newly legitimate" conference. xlolx

Not exacty like selling ice to eskimos.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

In terms of recruited football talent and fan support, both GSU and ASU are ahead of where schools like Troy, MTSU, and Louisiana-Whatever were when they moved up. And certainly ahead of Georgia State. Considering that in two straight years top SBC teams have been beaten by non-playoff FCS teams, I don't see how taking programs like GSU and ASU would do anything but upgrade football. Will it make them "legit"? Not really, but I don't know if anyone has used that exact word, at least not that I'm aware of.

[cmaxwellgsu]

So let me get this perfectly straight. The Sun Belt is the best option for Georgia Southern because:

* Georgia State needs an in-state rival
* If Georgia Southern goes to the Sun Belt, App State will likely follow
* The Sun Belt has a TV deal that pays no money
* Georgia Southern will give the Sun Belt legitimacy

I'm not making this stuff up, I'm pulling it right from the rah-rah pieces posted here.

A tip. When you're trying to sell a move to the FBS, and then turn around and say "when we get there, we'll give our conference legitimacy!".... well.... let me know how that works out.


Yeah, it's hard to understand legitimacy when you come from a rinky dink program like Lehigh.....

[walliver]

... The administrations and the BOT's of both App State and GSU have already done the leg work and made the sell. ...

The BOT's "made the sell"? or were they sold the goods?:D I'm sure both administrations and boards looked into this, but "made the sell" is a strange word choice.

I'll be sorry to see ASU and GSU leave .. there won't be much to talk about in the off-season. But you won't be forgotten, 40 years from now, Citdog will be sitting in the nursing home reminding you of September 2012.

[CID1990]

The BOT's "made the sell"? or were they sold the goods?:D I'm sure both administrations and boards looked into this, but "made the sell" is a strange word choice.

I'll be sorry to see ASU and GSU leave .. there won't be much to talk about in the off-season. But you won't be forgotten, 40 years from now, Citdog will be sitting in the nursing home reminding you of September 2012.

Nah.

That will be old hat after the second game of the 2013 season.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm fairly certain programs that give "legitimacy" to new conferences don't need to state that fact. I don't think Jim Fiore of Stony Brook was working the media saying how their football program gives "legitimacy" to the Big South.

[walliver]

Nah.

That will be old hat after the second game of the 2013 season.


Sent from the center of the universe.

I looking for the streak to last another decade or so.

[ASUMountaineer]

So, to reiterate, Georgia Southern's sell job is that "we're going to make your conference legitimate". xlolx

And, your big "in-state" rival Georgia "Cash Drop" State isn't. xlolx

And Georgia Southern will be forcing App State to join this "newly legitimate" conference. xlolx

Not exacty like selling ice to eskimos.

What in the world are you talking about? xcrazyx

Again, to reiterate, if you think anonymous message board posters are the ones selling the move, you're an idiot.

Try again. xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

The BOT's "made the sell"? or were they sold the goods?:D I'm sure both administrations and boards looked into this, but "made the sell" is a strange word choice.

I'll be sorry to see ASU and GSU leave .. there won't be much to talk about in the off-season. But you won't be forgotten, 40 years from now, Citdog will be sitting in the nursing home reminding you of September 2012.

Ask LFN, I used his words.

As to Citdog, I have no doubt that you speak the truth! xlolx

[fc97]

no offense to the lehigh guy, but, why do you care so much.

i get why socon posters would respond. we have a stake in the loss of app and gsu and we have a stake in other teams it potentially brings in. but, why does a patriot fan care so much?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

no offense to the lehigh guy, but, why do you care so much.

i get why socon posters would respond. we have a stake in the loss of app and gsu and we have a stake in other teams it potentially brings in. but, why does a patriot fan care so much?

I'm just deeply amused as to the reasoning of moving laterally, at best, to the Sun Belt.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I'm just deeply amused as to the reasoning of moving laterally, at best, to the Sun Belt.

Call it "lateral" if you like. It's lateral in terms of competition between the top of FCS and the bottom of FBS, but it's "up" in terms of media perception and market potential for GSU and App St, which is what counts. Look on the bright side - there will be two less teams Lehigh could lose to in the first round of the FCS playoffs with GSU and App being gonexblehx

[Apphole]

I'm just deeply amused as to the reasoning of moving laterally, at best, to the Sun Belt.

Delusional. How could you even begin to rationalize that claim?

Football: SBC rank 9 compared to SoCon at 14. Up http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc12.htm
Basketball: SBC rank 19 compared to SoCon at 26. Up http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkc1213.htm
Baseball: Neither has any teams in the top 25 right now. Both have histories of sending 3-4 teams to the post season. Wash
TV Contract: Here's an easy one. SoCon has none, the SBC does. Up
Facilities: Subjective, but you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that and FCS conference has better facilities, let alone the SoCon (aka the parade of thimble stadiums). And think about how this will sway even more so once App and GaSo leaveUp
Academics: With Davidson and Wofford, here's one where the SoCon might come out on top. Down

Please, oh great spin doctor with his head in the sand, tell me how a move from the SoCon to the SBC is lateral.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm just deeply amused as to the reasoning of moving laterally, at best, to the Sun Belt.

Sure. xlolx

[TheRevSFA]

Basketball: SBC rank 19 compared to SoCon at 26. Up http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkc1213.htm
.

Do they airball freethrows in the SBC? :D

[Apphole]

Do they airball freethrows in the SBC? :D

Nope. Never happens outside of Appalachian State.

[asumike83]

Do they airball freethrows in the SBC? :D

They might soon!

I mean uh... rabble rabble... something disparaging about App/GSU. Rabble rabble... something disparaging about the Sun Belt. Rabble rabble... something disparaging about the SoCon.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gSQg1i_q2g

[TheRevSFA]

haha..I think Sun Belt is good for App football..

App basketball on the other hand...ehhhhhhh they don't bring much to the table. Sorry guys

[CID1990]

Facilities: Subjective, but you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that and FCS conference has better facilities, let alone the SoCon

You won't get to use my pisswall anymore.

DOWN



Sent from the center of the universe.

[fc97]

I'm just deeply amused as to the reasoning of moving laterally, at best, to the Sun Belt.

it may be lateral overall, it may even increase travel budgets, but perception is not lateral. forget how much money made on tv

sun belt tv > socon tv

in other words, anything > 0

i get pissy about some things the fans say about the socon, but i cant fault the schools or the fans wanthing this.

[fc97]

Delusional. How could you even begin to rationalize that claim?

Football: SBC rank 9 compared to SoCon at 14. Up http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc12.htm
Basketball: SBC rank 19 compared to SoCon at 26. Up http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkc1213.htm
Baseball: Neither has any teams in the top 25 right now. Both have histories of sending 3-4 teams to the post season. Wash
TV Contract: Here's an easy one. SoCon has none, the SBC does. Up
Facilities: Subjective, but you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that and FCS conference has better facilities, let alone the SoCon (aka the parade of thimble stadiums). And think about how this will sway even more so once App and GaSo leaveUp
Academics: With Davidson and Wofford, here's one where the SoCon might come out on top. Down

Please, oh great spin doctor with his head in the sand, tell me how a move from the SoCon to the SBC is lateral.

the socon will come out with a net neutral on losing app probably. adding in mercer will be an academic replacement for app or charleston. but not both.

facilities, come on now. the socon overall has some good facilities. we're not talking charleston southern or a&t type stadiums, they are small, but they are quality. you can't say differently. but given that, opposing facilities are a net neutral. they don't matter either way.

basketball, without gsu and app the rpi will probably increase while you guys pull the sun belt down. and if mercer types are added, then the socon rpi is going to do nothing but increase.

baseball is probably a net neutral.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Cost to play: Down. Sun Belt will cost a lot more money, likely 2X.
Football Postseason/championship opportunities. Down. No chance at the Crystal Ball trophy game vs. a multi-game postseason.
Men's Basketball. Down. First: When was the last time a Sun Belt school played outside the 16 vs. 16 PIG? Second: What's the functional difference between these top two teams:

52 Middle Tennessee = 82.30 27 4 70.85( 202) 0 1 | 1 1 | 81.00 61 | 83.70 39
159 Arkansas State = 73.23 17 11 69.01( 283) 0 0 | 0 0 | 72.11 171 | 74.24 135

74 Davidson = 79.72 22 7 69.94( 239) 0 3 | 0 3 | 78.60 86 | 80.82 67
153 College of Charleston = 73.43 22 8 68.93( 285) 0 1 | 1 1 | 73.09 155 | 73.64 151

Come on now. At absolute best this is a Wash.

[superman7515]

C of C is leaving before AppState and GaSo, so you'd have to look at the #3 team.

[asumike83]

Men's Basketball. Down. First: When was the last time a Sun Belt school played outside the 16 vs. 16 PIG? Second: What's the functional difference between these top two teams:

52 Middle Tennessee = 82.30 27 4 70.85( 202) 0 1 | 1 1 | 81.00 61 | 83.70 39
159 Arkansas State = 73.23 17 11 69.01( 283) 0 0 | 0 0 | 72.11 171 | 74.24 135

74 Davidson = 79.72 22 7 69.94( 239) 0 3 | 0 3 | 78.60 86 | 80.82 67
153 College of Charleston = 73.43 22 8 68.93( 285) 0 1 | 1 1 | 73.09 155 | 73.64 151

Come on now. At absolute best this is a Wash.

You have to look past just the top two teams.

The rest of the SoCon teams' RPI: 175, 235, 255, 265, 274, 280, 281, 327, 333, 343
The rest of the SBC teams' RPI: 139, 146, 163, 178, 210, 231, 237, 277, 302

SoCon teams in the top 200: 3
SBC teams in the top 200: 6

SoCon teams below 250: 8
SBC teams below 250: 2

Both conferences have a few good teams at the top but over half of the SoCon is rated 250 or worse in the RPI. App is one of them, yet we somehow got the #4 seed and bye in the SoCon tournament. That is bad.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

C of C is leaving before AppState and GaSo, so you'd have to look at the #3 team.

If we play that game, MTSU is headed to C-USA.

But since you asked:

74 Davidson = 79.72 22 7 69.94( 239) 0 3 | 0 3 | 78.60 86 | 80.82 67
198 Elon = 70.46 18 10 68.40( 303) 0 1 | 0 1 | 70.02 205 | 70.78 194

159 Arkansas State = 73.23 17 11 69.01( 283) 0 0 | 0 0 | 72.11 171 | 74.24 135
192 South Alabama = 70.84 16 11 70.02( 237) 0 0 | 0 0 | 70.99 190 | 70.55 198

Maybe Wash. is overstating it a little. xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You have to look past just the top two teams.

Not for the NCAA Tourney you don't.

[Apphole]

Good god that is a pathetic response. Not that I expected much because your assertion is down right ridiculous.


Cost to play: Down. Sun Belt will cost a lot more money, likely 2X.
Revenue will be much higher. The BOTTOM LINE is the what matters. We will operate on a much higher budget than we did in the SoCon


Football Postseason/championship opportunities. Down. No chance at the Crystal Ball trophy game vs. a multi-game postseason.
I guess that's valid, but the important thing is: would the fanbase be more excited about a playoff game against some MVFC school or a bowl game with higher ratings than the FCS national championship game.


Men's Basketball. Down. First: When was the last time a Sun Belt school played outside the 16 vs. 16 PIG? Second: What's the functional difference between these top two teams:

52 Middle Tennessee = 82.30 27 4 70.85( 202) 0 1 | 1 1 | 81.00 61 | 83.70 39
159 Arkansas State = 73.23 17 11 69.01( 283) 0 0 | 0 0 | 72.11 171 | 74.24 135

74 Davidson = 79.72 22 7 69.94( 239) 0 3 | 0 3 | 78.60 86 | 80.82 67
153 College of Charleston = 73.43 22 8 68.93( 285) 0 1 | 1 1 | 73.09 155 | 73.64 151

Here where you got damn near stupid. First of all, C of C and MTSU are not going to be in each respective conference, so you might want to refine your examples there. Top heavy or not, the SBC is ranked 12 spots higher than the SoCon as a conference. That reflects on the whole league. The step up in basketball is even more dramatic than the step up in football.


Come on now. At absolute best this is a Wash.

Combining my list with yours, we're looking at a landside win for the Sunbelt. There is no way to spin this as a lateral move. It is a move UP and a drastic one at that. Thanks for playing.

[asumike83]

Not for the NCAA Tourney you don't.

For the sake of evaluating how strong a conference is you do.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Revenue will be much higher.

False.

[Apphole]

False.

Bowl payout>NCAA football tournament revenue
Ticket sales against FBS teams>Ticket sales against FCS teams
TV $>No TV $
NCAA BBall tournament revenue in a one-bid league=NCAA BBall tournament revenue in a one-bid league

How in god's name do you figure?

[Mr. C]

Call it "lateral" if you like. It's lateral in terms of competition between the top of FCS and the bottom of FBS, but it's "up" in terms of media perception and market potential for GSU and App St, which is what counts. Look on the bright side - there will be two less teams Lehigh could lose to in the first round of the FCS playoffs with GSU and App being gonexblehx

To be fair, Lehigh has actually won two games in the past three years in the football playoffs, something Appalachian State hasn't managed to do since Armanti Edwards led the Mountaineers to the semifinals in 2009.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Bowl payout>NCAA football tournament revenue
Ticket sales against FBS teams>Ticket sales against FCS teams
TV $>No TV $
NCAA BBall tournament revenue in a one-bid league=NCAA BBall tournament revenue in a one-bid league

How in god's name do you figure?

1. Let's hope your AD is not planning to retire on that whopping, undisclosed TV revenue from the Sun Belt. If there's even any revenue at all.

2. “The public in general thinks if you’re going to a bowl game, your program is getting rich,” MAC commissioner (and former OVC commissioner) Jon Steinbrecher said recently to the Columbus-Dispatch. “What you’re really hoping for is to break even.”

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/680-while-bowls-struggle-to-sell-out-fcs-championship-sells-out-in-days

3. Unless you're doubling your capacity, exactly how is Appy increasing their revenue with home games? Oh, yeah, expanding the stadium costs money.

Did I miss anything?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

To be fair, Lehigh has actually won two games in the past three years in the football playoffs, something Appalachian State hasn't managed to do since Armanti Edwards led the Mountaineers to the semifinals in 2009.

The only teams that Lehigh seems to be able to lose to in the playoffs lately is teams in the FCSCG and the members of the playoff selection committee.

[fc97]

Bowl payout>NCAA football tournament revenue
Ticket sales against FBS teams>Ticket sales against FCS teams
TV $>No TV $
NCAA BBall tournament revenue in a one-bid league=NCAA BBall tournament revenue in a one-bid league

How in god's name do you figure?

that's not entirely true either. and you can't state it for a fact.

ticket sales for a home game now are sold out tyically. ticket sales for an fbs could be higher, but to do so means raising ticket prices to do so. is app going to do that?

[Apphole]

is app going to do that?

I would assume so.

[asumike83]

I would assume so.

I can't find it written anywhere but I remember hearing that tickets would go up around $5/game, although I'd expect a little more if we get an in-state FBS opponent in town.

[ASUMountaineer]

If we play that game, MTSU is headed to C-USA.

But since you asked:

74 Davidson = 79.72 22 7 69.94( 239) 0 3 | 0 3 | 78.60 86 | 80.82 67
198 Elon = 70.46 18 10 68.40( 303) 0 1 | 0 1 | 70.02 205 | 70.78 194

159 Arkansas State = 73.23 17 11 69.01( 283) 0 0 | 0 0 | 72.11 171 | 74.24 135
192 South Alabama = 70.84 16 11 70.02( 237) 0 0 | 0 0 | 70.99 190 | 70.55 198

Maybe Wash. is overstating it a little. xlolx

My God, you are bent out of shape about App State and GSU possibly, potentially, maybe-but-maybe-not leaving. Get a new hobby...isn't there something Lehigh is doing that's interesting to you? You're like a pathetic Citdog.

[ASUMountaineer]

The only teams that Lehigh seems to be able to lose to in the playoffs lately is teams in the FCSCG and the members of the playoff selection committee.

xbawlingx







xlolx

[fc97]

I would assume so.

well stil, in theory, the could raise ticket prices now and get the same revenue. that's why i still say its a wash. people are going to come regardless. if you sell out for savannah state youre going to sell out for anyone

[ASUMountaineer]

To be fair, Lehigh has actually won two games in the past three years in the football playoffs, something Appalachian State hasn't managed to do since Armanti Edwards led the Mountaineers to the semifinals in 2009.

That is fair. But, the gist of his post was that a move to the Sun Belt is not a lateral move from the SoCon, but a step up. Whether you agree with that or not is up to each person's perspective.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I can't believe that after I just posted about a week ago that the ol' misnomer of FBS TV money and bowl payouts had been pretty much silenced over the last couple of years by posting the actual monetary amounts and dispelling the belief that it comes up again and by a fella that I would expect to know better on the matter.

As far as SBC football here are a few things to leave out of your argument as reasons FOR moving to FBS.

Bowl money

TV Money...unless things change and the SBC gets a good money contract.

Thinking your stadium is gonna have some big expansion and that ticket sales are gonna cover ya. It doesn't happen, take a look at Marshall, or almost anyone else and you will see that expecting anything more that a 10% increse in fans is perty unlikely and that's the best case. Marshall's #'s are about the same as they were in FCS and in some years are less.

Academic profile, probably should stay away from that one as well. If you all truly were worried about that then your arguments wouldn't reside where they do. You care about how your football is perceived, not so much the academic product. That is fine but be honest about what you want.

Student fees, and sponsors will pay for this and that's just the closest thing to reality that I can see out there even if those studies said that student fees wouldn't be touched.

Dream weaving one's way into anything is wonderful and easy. Reality is different that that. Again, good luck to y'all.xthumbsupx

[GSU EAGLES]

I can't believe that after I just posted about a week ago that the ol' misnomer of FBS TV money and bowl payouts had been pretty much silenced over the last couple of years by posting the actual monetary amounts and dispelling the belief that it comes up again and by a fella that I would expect to know better on the matter.

As far as SBC football here are a few things to leave out of your argument as reasons FOR moving to FBS.

Bowl money

TV Money...unless things change and the SBC gets a good money contract.

Thinking your stadium is gonna have some big expansion and that ticket sales are gonna cover ya. It doesn't happen, take a look at Marshall, or almost anyone else and you will see that expecting anything more that a 10% increse in fans is perty unlikely and that's the best case. Marshall's #'s are about the same as they were in FCS and in some years are less.

Academic profile, probably should stay away from that one as well. If you all truly were worried about that then your arguments wouldn't reside where they do. You care about how your football is perceived, not so much the academic product. That is fine but be honest about what you want.

Student fees, and sponsors will pay for this and that's just the closest thing to reality that I can see out there even if those studies said that student fees wouldn't be touched.

Dream weaving one's way into anything is wonderful and easy. Reality is different that that. Again, good luck to y'all.xthumbsupx

What about the extra $500k for FBS teams when playing a BCS money game? And with the B1G no longer playing FCS teams, that will increase demand for FBS money games.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

What about the extra $500k for FBS teams when playing a BCS money game? And with the B1G no longer playing FCS teams, that will increase demand for FBS money games.

I didn't include things like that because they seem plausible and ground in some truth. Is there something I have not read yet though in that the B1G did actually end FCS games? That may not be something that everyone is on board with so we'd be dealing with some willful negligence if we were to say that is what we should be talking about as if it were a truth at this point.

[Eagle22]

I didn't include things like that because they seem plausible and ground in some truth. Is there something I have not read yet though in that the B1G did actually end FCS games? That may not be something that everyone is on board with so we'd be dealing with some willful negligence if we were to say that is what we should be talking about as if it were a truth at this point.


That is true. I don't believe it is a done deal at this point. However, I think it is inevitable given the advent of playoffs at the FBS level. When scrutiny eventually comes to those teams who end up on the bubble (whatever that bubble looks like ....), they'll be better suited having a lower echelon FBS school in the "W" column than a FCS "W" that has fewer scholarships associated with it. I think it is almost impossible to argue against this, as we see it in the FCS playoff field selections about what constitutes a good schedule and good wins.

If for some reason, FCS were to further ratchet down the top end scholarship level I think that would hasten this possible practice. I realize that is pure conjecture, but those type of uncertainties, coupled with the expansion of the FCS playoffs to include conferences who don't fund the full 63 .... is a prime reason IMO why the Georgia Southern's, App State's and others at the top end of the division have decided enough is enough.

[pike51]

That is true. I don't believe it is a done deal at this point. However, I think it is inevitable given the advent of playoffs at the FBS level. When scrutiny eventually comes to those teams who end up on the bubble (whatever that bubble looks like ....), they'll be better suited having a lower echelon FBS school in the "W" column than a FCS "W" that has fewer scholarships associated with it. I think it is almost impossible to argue against this, as we see it in the FCS playoff field selections about what constitutes a good schedule and good wins.

If for some reason, FCS were to further ratchet down the top end scholarship level I think that would hasten this possible practice. I realize that is pure conjecture, but those type of uncertainties, coupled with the expansion of the FCS playoffs to include conferences who don't fund the full 63 .... is a prime reason IMO why the Georgia Southern's, App State's and others at the top end of the division have decided enough is enough.

Agreed. In addition, I feel like the FBS level is going to split eventually and have 2 tiers. For lack of better terminology right now, call them BCS tier and non-BCS tier. So the Alabama's, USC's, ND's, and WVU's will play at the highest level while the Troy's, WKU's, and the like will be in the second tier (once again). This will leave FCS ball at a 3rd level and so on.

[fc97]

Agreed. In addition, I feel like the FBS level is going to split eventually and have 2 tiers. For lack of better terminology right now, call them BCS tier and non-BCS tier. So the Alabama's, USC's, ND's, and WVU's will play at the highest level while the Troy's, WKU's, and the like will be in the second tier (once again). This will leave FCS ball at a 3rd level and so on.

this is the late 70s and early 80s all over again. the non-BCS level will be considered cost containment. and what's to stop the ncaa from merging fcs back up with this level? i mean, i-aa formed in 1978 and choices were made in what, 1982, that knocked a certain group back down. at that point, you have a few conferences of schools that don't want to rachet down scholarships or want to be on the second level and you'll see an exodus of the elon, citadel, william & mary, richmond, mcneese, montana type schools to either merge with that level or they'll go in mass as a conference to move up.

besides, any changes have to be voted on, and the top fcs schools will outvote those left out of the bcs area.

everyone on here knows that the ncaa isn't going to lock down a second level like they will the top level. and they really wont care what happens because the money focus will be on the top, not the rest.

[ASUMountaineer]

I can't believe that after I just posted about a week ago that the ol' misnomer of FBS TV money and bowl payouts had been pretty much silenced over the last couple of years by posting the actual monetary amounts and dispelling the belief that it comes up again and by a fella that I would expect to know better on the matter.

As far as SBC football here are a few things to leave out of your argument as reasons FOR moving to FBS.

Bowl money

TV Money...unless things change and the SBC gets a good money contract.

Thinking your stadium is gonna have some big expansion and that ticket sales are gonna cover ya. It doesn't happen, take a look at Marshall, or almost anyone else and you will see that expecting anything more that a 10% increse in fans is perty unlikely and that's the best case. Marshall's #'s are about the same as they were in FCS and in some years are less.

Academic profile, probably should stay away from that one as well. If you all truly were worried about that then your arguments wouldn't reside where they do. You care about how your football is perceived, not so much the academic product. That is fine but be honest about what you want.

Student fees, and sponsors will pay for this and that's just the closest thing to reality that I can see out there even if those studies said that student fees wouldn't be touched.

Dream weaving one's way into anything is wonderful and easy. Reality is different that that. Again, good luck to y'all.xthumbsupx

I agree with most of what you say except the bolded part above. The SoCon does not have a TV contract, so any TV contract is > than no TV contract.

[Saint3333]

this is the late 70s and early 80s all over again. the non-BCS level will be considered cost containment. and what's to stop the ncaa from merging fcs back up with this level? i mean, i-aa formed in 1978 and choices were made in what, 1982, that knocked a certain group back down. at that point, you have a few conferences of schools that don't want to rachet down scholarships or want to be on the second level and you'll see an exodus of the elon, citadel, william & mary, richmond, mcneese, montana type schools to either merge with that level or they'll go in mass as a conference to move up.

besides, any changes have to be voted on, and the top fcs schools will outvote those left out of the bcs area.

everyone on here knows that the ncaa isn't going to lock down a second level like they will the top level. and they really wont care what happens because the money focus will be on the top, not the rest.

I completely understand that is an option and that may happen but some schools would like to ensure they stay in the second tier. There would be a 0% chance App and GSU end up in the third tier if they move now.

[CID1990]

A lot of this is silly talk about three tiers in college football.

There already ARE three tiers. Teams from the BCS conferences, teams from the midmajor conferences, and FCS. Just because they are not officially delineated does not mean it isn't the case. If the NCAA actually does make a distinction, very little will change in terms of who plays whom, and who spends the most money on football.

As for FBS not playing FCS, I don't see the reality in that because of scheduling issues, etc. There aren't enough patsies to go around in FBS, and I envision a majority of FBS schools resisting a push to make victories over FCS teams not count towards bowl or playoff eligibility.

The biggest changes will come for the top schools, say, those realisitically in the top 25 at the end of a given season. All of them would have a shot at a FBS playoff, and therefore it might not be a good idea to schedule FCS teams if strength of schedule issues play into the selection. As for the legion of also rans that will STILL exist in FBS, they will continue to pay FCS teams to come in and play.

Personally I don't have a dog in this fight because I am one of a small minority of El Cid fans who have been against playing FBS money games anyway. I think the money is artificial in terms of how much revenue a school's athletic program can expect to normally generate. You get used to the money, then you depend on it, and then problems ensue when it goes away. It was nice whuppin up on USC and Arkansas and the service academies, but if we had lost every one of those games it would not have affected whether we went to the playoffs or not.

[Bisonator]

I got a question that I can't seem to find an answer to, maybe dumb or it's already been discussed but here goes. I know individual schools need a conference invite to move up to FBS, what about an entire conference of schools deciding to move up, is that allowed? For instance say hypothetically the MVFC schools decided they want to go FBS could they just move the conference to FBS and start competing at that level?

[Eagle22]

this is the late 70s and early 80s all over again. the non-BCS level will be considered cost containment. and what's to stop the ncaa from merging fcs back up with this level? i mean, i-aa formed in 1978 and choices were made in what, 1982, that knocked a certain group back down. at that point, you have a few conferences of schools that don't want to rachet down scholarships or want to be on the second level and you'll see an exodus of the elon, citadel, william & mary, richmond, mcneese, montana type schools to either merge with that level or they'll go in mass as a conference to move up.

besides, any changes have to be voted on, and the top fcs schools will outvote those left out of the bcs area.

everyone on here knows that the ncaa isn't going to lock down a second level like they will the top level. and they really wont care what happens because the money focus will be on the top, not the rest.

Good question.

Better question --- What will prompt the NCAA to do something that will benefit the FCS realm ? Your proposition that the NCAA merges these divisions would have to fall under that type of an asssumption. All you have to do is review the history of I-AA and FCS, to see that the NCAA does precious little to serve the division ... and the most glaring aspect of how they value FCS, is the absence of representation on the same committees you say will be "voted on".

The high hurdle of a new conference and the absence of immediate relative cash flows is the only impediment needed to "keep" teams/programs where they are at.

[MplsBison]

I got a question that I can't seem to find an answer to, maybe dumb or it's already been discussed but here goes. I know individual schools need a conference invite to move up to FBS, what about an entire conference of schools deciding to move up, is that allowed? For instance say hypothetically the MVFC schools decided they want to go FBS could they just move the conference to FBS and start competing at that level?

I don't recall ever reading any article that specifically talks about such a scenario being forbidden. Doesn't mean it's allowed, probably more than anything just means no national outlets see that remote of a possibility even worth mentioning.

If I had to put my paycheck on it - well if nothing else, the other FBS conferences have already figured out how they're going to split up the pie. So all of a sudden adding a new conference into the mix screws up that whole distribution plan. Therefore, I'm sure they'd conjure up some way to blackball any such move - if they didn't already have the mechanics at their disposal in the NCAA bylaws.

[superman7515]

I got a question that I can't seem to find an answer to, maybe dumb or it's already been discussed but here goes. I know individual schools need a conference invite to move up to FBS, what about an entire conference of schools deciding to move up, is that allowed? For instance say hypothetically the MVFC schools decided they want to go FBS could they just move the conference to FBS and start competing at that level?

CAA Comissioner Yeager checked on this two years ago and was told that this would absolutely not be allowed and was against the NCAA by-laws as no team or teams can move up to the FBS without an invitation from an existing FBS conference. No moving the whole conference up and no creating a new conference and moving everyone up at once.

[fc97]

Good question.

Better question --- What will prompt the NCAA to do something that will benefit the FCS realm ? Your proposition that the NCAA merges these divisions would have to fall under that type of an asssumption. All you have to do is review the history of I-AA and FCS, to see that the NCAA does precious little to serve the division ... and the most glaring aspect of how they value FCS, is the absence of representation on the same committees you say will be "voted on".

The high hurdle of a new conference and the absence of immediate relative cash flows is the only impediment needed to "keep" teams/programs where they are at.

but that's exactly what i'm saying. the rules for moving to fbs have always been about preserving that division, not preserving fcs. if the fbs part splits and fbs becomes another division, one can safely ask "what would the ncaa do to preserve that division?" considering the track record of the non-bcs schools, the safe answer would be nothing. and the safe answer would be that either there's a lower consolidation again or you'll see an upper fcs consolidation with the bcs due to relaxed requirements. really, if youre not in that top group, the ncaa does little to prevent anything. one could safely assume that current impediments, at that level, would be negated considering certain fcs programs and school profiles.

a split means a change in committees.

[fc97]

I completely understand that is an option and that may happen but some schools would like to ensure they stay in the second tier. There would be a 0% chance App and GSU end up in the third tier if they move now.

sure, and that's what i'm really getting at. if three tiers begin to emerge officially, the dynamics are going to change drastically. i personally think you'll see the socon, caa, mvfc, big sky, southland and maybe ovc with huge dogs in the fight of not being forced into more cost containment. schools like wofford might want further cost containment, but there's not indications that many other schools in those top conferences do.

all i'm saying is, once an official seperation of certain groups is attained, rules become loosey goosey for everyone else because they just aren't cared about as much.

[Bisonator]

CAA Comissioner Yeager checked on this two years ago and was told that this would absolutely not be allowed and was against the NCAA by-laws as no team or teams can move up to the FBS without an invitation from an existing FBS conference. No moving the whole conference up and no creating a new conference and moving everyone up at once.

Thank you. I was not aware the CAA had already looked into this.

[Bisonator]

CAA Comissioner Yeager checked on this two years ago and was told that this would absolutely not be allowed and was against the NCAA by-laws as no team or teams can move up to the FBS without an invitation from an existing FBS conference. No moving the whole conference up and no creating a new conference and moving everyone up at once.

Thank you. I was not aware the CAA had already looked into this.

[Saint3333]

sure, and that's what i'm really getting at. if three tiers begin to emerge officially, the dynamics are going to change drastically. i personally think you'll see the socon, caa, mvfc, big sky, southland and maybe ovc with huge dogs in the fight of not being forced into more cost containment. schools like wofford might want further cost containment, but there's not indications that many other schools in those top conferences do.

all i'm saying is, once an official seperation of certain groups is attained, rules become loosey goosey for everyone else because they just aren't cared about as much.

There are 3-4 programs in each of the "power" FCS conferences that may be interested further in the cost containment road. In the SoCon I could see WCU, Citadel, Wofford, Samford, and Furman doing it (Elon may go along with it to remain in a conference with these programs). In the CAA Richmond, W&M, Rhode Island, UNH, and Maine. If that were to happen I could see those SoCon members teaming up with Richmond, W&M, and VMI. That would be an ideal situation for many in that group. WCU would go to the OVC most likely.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

1. Anyone who tries to sell you the bill of goods that a win against Western Michigan will mean more than a win against Western Illinois is simply fooling themselves. There is plenty of chaff out there that such a win would be "better", but fortunately college football fans are not that dumb. They know that Western Michigan and pretty much any FCS squad are equal in terms of public perception, and in terms of things like Sag the top schools of FCS are fairly consistently rated higher than the dregs of FBS.

2. FBS schools want home games, and since FCS schools can't host FBS schools, it's 100% home games, at a discount rate. Western Michigan's guarantees will be higher and occasionally will ask for a home game. Economically for the big schools it's a no-brainer - basically the same attendance, less costs to host an FCS team, no return trip. You can't legislate these benefits away.

3. "If the three tiers merge"... "If the NCAA forces the Sun Belt to be FCS"... "If the FBS splits into two divisions"... If anything happens - and it's likely that it won't - it won't be at the behest of the NCAA, it would be at the behest of the BCS schools, most likely in the scenario of breaking off from the NCAA and starting their own semi-pro, essentially unregulated, sports league. If that happens, is Michigan going to drag Western Michigan with them to share their money? Yeah, right.

4. Let's assume the more likely scenario, that the BCS schools stay in the NCAA to keep participating in the NCAA tourney and to keep their semi-pro sports shrouded in academics. Why, exactly, would they change anything? FCS schools aren't going to lobby to downgrade when they can get to 56 1/2 scholarships and play Michigan and Western Michigan and can do so on a decent cost basis. FBS schools need home games, and FCS schools provide them with such. All the Division I schools need the NCAA basketball tournament. Non-BCS FBS schools need to feel worthwhile so they'll continue to sink money into the dream of someday being a BCS school, money that the students and alumni seem happy to provide. In fact, the only reason to do anything is to ward off a threat that hasn't happened yet - that athletics will somehow "bankrupt" the schools that play the game. Well, that could be turned around - if nothing has happened yet, why change?

[CID1990]

There are 3-4 programs in each of the "power" FCS conferences that may be interested further in the cost containment road. In the SoCon I could see WCU, Citadel, Wofford, Samford, and Furman doing it (Elon may go along with it to remain in a conference with these programs). In the CAA Richmond, W&M, Rhode Island, UNH, and Maine. If that were to happen I could see those SoCon members teaming up with Richmond, W&M, and VMI. That would be an ideal situation for many in that group. WCU would go to the OVC most likely.

If true, then in essence the SoCon would go back to being the SoCon right after the I-A I-AA split.

I would love to see Richmond, W&M and VMI back in the fold.



Sent from the center of the universe.

[CID1990]

There are 3-4 programs in each of the "power" FCS conferences that may be interested further in the cost containment road. In the SoCon I could see WCU, Citadel, Wofford, Samford, and Furman doing it (Elon may go along with it to remain in a conference with these programs). In the CAA Richmond, W&M, Rhode Island, UNH, and Maine. If that were to happen I could see those SoCon members teaming up with Richmond, W&M, and VMI. That would be an ideal situation for many in that group. WCU would go to the OVC most likely.

If true, then in essence the SoCon would go back to being the SoCon right after the I-A I-AA split.

I would love to see Richmond, W&M and VMI back in the fold.



Sent from the center of the universe.

[fc97]

There are 3-4 programs in each of the "power" FCS conferences that may be interested further in the cost containment road. In the SoCon I could see WCU, Citadel, Wofford, Samford, and Furman doing it (Elon may go along with it to remain in a conference with these programs). In the CAA Richmond, W&M, Rhode Island, UNH, and Maine. If that were to happen I could see those SoCon members teaming up with Richmond, W&M, and VMI. That would be an ideal situation for many in that group. WCU would go to the OVC most likely.

and that's the type of post that inflames me from people like you. there's no indication that any of those programs have pursued anything like cost containment, except for wofford and rhode island.

for example, if elon and samford were about cost containment, they could have stayed in the big south and ovc and offered 20 less schoalrships.
if william and mary and richdmond were about cost containment, they could have joined the patriot league long ago or even now.
even vmi, when given the opportunity didn't cut costs or funding

the others, no. there is no indication that that's even a consideration. you're just coming up with a "feeling" and spewing it off as a powerful near certainty.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I agree with most of what you say except the bolded part above. The SoCon does not have a TV contract, so any TV contract is > than no TV contract.

As far as your statement goes you are dead on. But in reference to the added costs in the context of what is going to pay for that added expense I believe you'd have to concede that point to me. Financially it isn't gonna offset the doubling or tripling of the current athletic budget correct?

[MplsBison]

What I wouldn't give for someone to obtain the athletic department accounting books of the last three years for App St, Geo Southern and every public, Sun Belt football school that's been in that conference for the last three seasons and then do a study of the actual costs and revenues of each of those schools over the last three seasons.

That might actually have a chance of shutting up a guy like LFN who has nothing better to do than lie his butt off saying things like "it will cost double to be in the Sun Belt as it does to be in the SoCon".

Why someone feels better about themselves by lying to people on the internet, I don't know.

[Saint3333]

Someone is reading what they want to versus what is written. I used the terms "may" and "if" to describe a potential situation. If my statement was taken as powerful near certainty you do need to read more carefully.

Many of those programs chose a cost containment alternative before. Elon and Samford are the only ones mentioned that did not make that choice previously as they were sub D2 at that time. I even said Elon MAY do so only because the rest of the group did.

Are you upset that I had the thought that MAY happen or are you upset that it is a possiblity?

[ASUMountaineer]

As far as your statement goes you are dead on. But in reference to the added costs in the context of what is going to pay for that added expense I believe you'd have to concede that point to me. Financially it isn't gonna offset the doubling or tripling of the current athletic budget correct?

No, but going by the study that App State produced, we will not double or triple our current budget. The study produced a way for the move to make financial sense. The study called for an athletics budget increase of $6 million on top of a current $15 million budget. Will that plan be realized? Good question, and there's no definitive answer. However, as there are arguments that FBS advocates shouldn't make, TV contracts/revenue is one that FCS advocates shouldn't make.

http://www.goasu.com/pdf8/805466.pdf?SPSID=104441&SPID=12805&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=21500

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What I wouldn't give for someone to obtain the athletic department accounting books of the last three years for App St, Geo Southern and every public, Sun Belt football school that's been in that conference for the last three seasons and then do a study of the actual costs and revenues of each of those schools over the last three seasons.

That might actually have a chance of shutting up a guy like LFN who has nothing better to do than lie his butt off saying things like "it will cost double to be in the Sun Belt as it does to be in the SoCon".

Why someone feels better about themselves by lying to people on the internet, I don't know.

Appalachian State total football expenses:
Football $3,769,377

Middle Tennessee State total football expenses:
Football $7,629,932

It took me about a minute to prove what I said "lying on my butt" looking at the EADA reports. No, really. This internet thing will be great once you know how to use it.

[fc97]

That might actually have a chance of shutting up a guy like LFN who has nothing better to do than lie his butt off saying things like "it will cost double to be in the Sun Belt as it does to be in the SoCon".

dayum, the irony overfloweth in this post

[ASUMountaineer]

Appalachian State total football expenses:
Football $3,769,377

Middle Tennessee State total football expenses:
Football $7,629,932

It took me about a minute to prove what I said "lying on my butt" looking at the EADA reports. No, really. This internet thing will be great once you know how to use it.

Can you provide the rest of the Sun Belt schools' football expenses?

[fc97]

Someone is reading what they want to versus what is written. I used the terms "may" and "if" to describe a potential situation. If my statement was taken as powerful near certainty you do need to read more carefully.

Many of those programs chose a cost containment alternative before. Elon and Samford are the only ones mentioned that did not make that choice previously as they were sub D2 at that time. I even said Elon MAY do so only because the rest of the group did.

Are you upset that I had the thought that MAY happen or are you upset that it is a possiblity?

no, i'm irritated that this is the "sky is falling" stuff you guys post about and there's no basis for it at all. for instance, app took the cost containment route, and look at them now.

[fc97]

Someone is reading what they want to versus what is written. I used the terms "may" and "if" to describe a potential situation. If my statement was taken as powerful near certainty you do need to read more carefully.

Many of those programs chose a cost containment alternative before. Elon and Samford are the only ones mentioned that did not make that choice previously as they were sub D2 at that time. I even said Elon MAY do so only because the rest of the group did.

Are you upset that I had the thought that MAY happen or are you upset that it is a possiblity?

no, i'm irritated that this is the "sky is falling" stuff you guys post about and there's no basis for it at all. for instance, app took the cost containment route, and look at them now.

it was you that said to stop using the 70s and 80s for a comparison for schools, yet here you are making an opposing point with exactly that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

ULM:
Football $3,588,964

ULLF:
Football $5,892,869

Arkansas State:
Football $4,341,626

WKU:
Football $5,883,389

Troy:
Football $3,963,058

North Texas:
Football $6,085,738

South Alabama:
Football $6,902,289

FAU:
Football $6,886,602

FIU:
Football $7,867,972

Want the average? $5,904,244. Not quite double App State's current expenses. "Only" 63% higher.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

No, but going by the study that App State produced, we will not double or triple our current budget. The study produced a way for the move to make financial sense. The study called for an athletics budget increase of $6 million on top of a current $15 million budget. Will that plan be realized? Good question, and there's no definitive answer. However, as there are arguments that FBS advocates shouldn't make, TV contracts/revenue is one that FCS advocates shouldn't make.

http://www.goasu.com/pdf8/805466.pdf?SPSID=104441&SPID=12805&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=21500

Really? Talking about TV money in the SBC as an offset to the fairly large costs isn't something that one could call BS on? Ok man.

I know what the study says and I believe at the time the Appalachian administration said that a move to the Sun Belt was not what they were looking for as it would not work financially...they were looking for CUSA as a revenue model that made it work weren't they?

Adding 6 million seems like it will put it right below the level of WKU and MTSU so it makes sense that it isn't doubling and that was an overstatement on my part but is not gonna come from TV revenue in the SBC nor bowl money.

TV contract not bringing in substantial money to the Univ. it can't be used as an advantage argument.

[Saint3333]

The sky isn't falling, for someone claming gross exaggeration you aren't immune to hyperbole.

Those programs don't care to play football at the highest level (Elon may an exception) and will continue to be content staying at this level (whatever those parameters are going forward). Those parameters may change, they may not.

App IMO didn't have a choice in the early 80's the finances and support weren't there, and university didn't have 100k alums with the resources they have today.

If you didn't think there was a chance on this to happen you wouldn't post, why waste your time on something with a 0% chance?

[ASUMountaineer]

Really? Talking about TV money in the SBC as an offset to the fairly large costs isn't something that one could call BS on? Ok man.

I know what the study says and I believe at the time the Appalachian administration said that a move to the Sun Belt was not what they were looking for as it would not work financially...they were looking for CUSA as a revenue model that made it work weren't they?

Adding 6 million seems like it will put it right below the level of WKU and MTSU so it makes sense that it isn't doubling and that was an overstatement on my part but is not gonna come from TV revenue in the SBC nor bowl money.

TV contract not bringing in substantial money to the Univ. it can't be used as an advantage argument.

Yeah, but I didn't say the TV money would offset the cost, but it would be part of the added revenue. My only point was that a TV contract > than no TV contract. Is that disputable?

And yes, at the time of the study, the admin did not consider the SBC to be a viable conference. However, things have changed drastically.

[PaladinFan]

I think we can agree on this much, Sun Belt TV revenue is something. That something is substantially less than major conference. It is more than the SoCon. That something is divided by current teams. If more teams join the SunBelt, everyone's piece of the pie (except those joining) gets smaller.

This continues to read like we are justifying these teams moving to the FBS. We are past that. They want to go. The question is whether the conferences want to take them. Things like TV revenue, which is a huge carrot to the App admins, is probably just as likely a huge detriment in the eyes of the current members of the SBC.

At the end of the day, App (and others) will need to convince the SBC that even though their addition to the conference will take money directly out of the pockets of the current member schools (by way of pro rata distribution), that App (and others) will provide a benefit in terms of a return on that investment. That's what it is. App wants the SunBelt to invest in them so that everyone may prosper. Question is really whether they'd be buying low or high at the moment.

[DFW HOYA]

Want the average? $5,904,244. Not quite double App State's current expenses. "Only" 63% higher.

If Fordham were on this list, their 2012 budget ($5,742,437) would be 6th. Is a $6 million Ram budget around the corner?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yeah, but I didn't say the TV money would offset the cost, but it would be part of the added revenue. My only point was that a TV contract > than no TV contract. Is that disputable?

Remember Ceteris paribus? Ceteris paribus is not the case here. If it were then your statement would be indisputable. Not to mention the fact that when I put that line in the post it was certainly in the context that considering the budget upgrade it's not a winner in offsetting...much like bowl money claims. I am well aware of what you did and did not say which is why I've already conceded that it was true in as far as it went but stopped well short of what I was putting forth...Ceteris paribus.



And yes, at the time of the study, the admin did not consider the SBC to be a viable conference. However, things have changed drastically.

Now maybe you're just stopping short again to have a second irrefutable claim? So let me say first off that your claim there is completely correct in as far as it goes. Things have changed dramatically. Now as far as the SBC goes have they changed for the better? Is it a bigger cash cow now than it was a year or two ago? What exactly makes the changes better now than they were when the study was done is what I'm getting at?

[Eagle22]

1. Anyone who tries to sell you the bill of goods that a win against Western Michigan will mean more than a win against Western Illinois is simply fooling themselves. There is plenty of chaff out there that such a win would be "better", but fortunately college football fans are not that dumb. They know that Western Michigan and pretty much any FCS squad are equal in terms of public perception, and in terms of things like Sag the top schools of FCS are fairly consistently rated higher than the dregs of FBS.


Do you think a win against say, UNI, instead of Monmouth, in 2012 would have bolstered the case for Lehigh to make the playoff field ? I certainly do. Any FBS fan might look at UNI and Monmouth and not know the difference ... but an FCS fan does and the selection committee absolutely does. This form of rating/ranking/tiering is coming to FBS along with the playoffs. It might take a few years or even a decade or two, but it is inevitable. Teams that left I-AA fifteen years ago have invested too much to be 'forced' back. I can recall many folks on my board arguing this point in explicit, gory detail for many years ... starting in 1997 ... and for fifteen years there has been no such movement of teams. They are better represented, and that voice at the table is what keeps the separation in place.

The 'chaff' you speak of, is real in the FCS level. I'm not sure if I can agree with you about the collective intelligence of football fans, as I won't say they are dumb, but many are ignorant about the nuances involved with the differences in divisions. My point is there are no absolutes involved, other than FCS does not have equal representation at the D1 table. I think it is a pipe dream to think that somehow this group of schools will somehow fare better in the long run and be looked out for by the NCAA. History does not support that assertion.

The rest of your argument is based on the supposition that your first statement is accurate. I guess that is where we'll have to agree to disagree. Time will tell how it plays out. I don't have any designs on the idea that somehow Georgia Southern will magically be included in this magic group pool of money and prestige (I'm a realist), but I do believe that we'll finally have better representation for our interests. It won't be perfect or even ideal, but it will be better.

[CID1990]

I like pie


Sent from the center of the universe.

[superman7515]

I like pie


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pdWAcK6Eh8

[MplsBison]

ULM:
Football $3,588,964

ULLF:
Football $5,892,869

Arkansas State:
Football $4,341,626

WKU:
Football $5,883,389

Troy:
Football $3,963,058

North Texas:
Football $6,085,738

South Alabama:
Football $6,902,289

FAU:
Football $6,886,602

FIU:
Football $7,867,972

Want the average? $5,904,244. Not quite double App State's current expenses. "Only" 63% higher.

Was it painful having to invalidate your own argument like that?

LA-Monroe, 6-2 in the conference (tied for 2nd) and goes to a bowl game, with a budget that is smaller than App St and barely larger than Ga Southern. And that's with more scholarships mind you (minimum 90% of the 85 cap is required in FBS).

In other words, you were lying your butt off and App St & GA Southern won't have to spend a cent more than they do now OTHER than to go from 63 to 76.5 scholarships. And before anyone says anything foolish, yes schools can offer non-full rides in FBS.

[Eagle22]

I think we can agree on this much, Sun Belt TV revenue is something. That something is substantially less than major conference. It is more than the SoCon. That something is divided by current teams. If more teams join the SunBelt, everyone's piece of the pie (except those joining) gets smaller.

This continues to read like we are justifying these teams moving to the FBS. We are past that. They want to go. The question is whether the conferences want to take them. Things like TV revenue, which is a huge carrot to the App admins, is probably just as likely a huge detriment in the eyes of the current members of the SBC.

At the end of the day, App (and others) will need to convince the SBC that even though their addition to the conference will take money directly out of the pockets of the current member schools (by way of pro rata distribution), that App (and others) will provide a benefit in terms of a return on that investment. That's what it is. App wants the SunBelt to invest in them so that everyone may prosper. Question is really whether they'd be buying low or high at the moment.

This post makes a lot of sense. Yet, when the same concept is applied to the Southern Conference ... the SoCon went ahead and added a whole bunch of teams many years ago, expanding the league and further diluting the already miniscule revenue stream from tournament participation. They did so under Wright Water's watch .... who sold the idea on the merits of chasing that at-large basketball invite to March Madness that has never materialized once.

Ultimately, I don't believe conference size to be the barrier it was 20-30 years ago. Sure, there are moments where it would appear to be a deal breaker, but the additions the SunBelt is considering are more about league preservation, opportunity to add a football championship game and the split into divisions which provide a little regional stability and potentially drive more interest on campus. That is the ROI that the SunBelt is considering here, IMO ... not the incremental cut on the overall share.

[ThompsonThe]

Was it painful having to invalidate your own argument like that?

LA-Monroe, 6-2 in the conference (tied for 2nd) and goes to a bowl game, with a budget that is smaller than App St and barely larger than Ga Southern. And that's with more scholarships mind you (minimum 90% of the 85 cap is required in FBS).

In other words, you were lying your butt off and App St & GA Southern won't have to spend a cent more than they do now OTHER than to go from 63 to 76.5 scholarships. And before anyone says anything foolish, yes schools can offer non-full rides in FBS.

No, wrong on several accounts. FBS cannot offer anything but full scholarships. What costs are you speaking of other than the difference in number of scholarships exactly?

[asumike83]

There will be added travel expenses along with the scholarships but if they do an East/West division split as is expected, it won't be quite as drastic as most initially thought. The big question is how much of that will be offset by new revenues.

I don't think anyone in our administration is counting on big TV $$ from a potential Sun Belt move. However, as has been stated before, any TV deal is better than none and we will get more exposure by having at least a couple of our games televised each year. If the conference goes to 12 and has a championship game, that would add further potential.

As I see it, the potential revenues would come partially from higher payouts for games with BCS opponents. App typically plays the really big boys (Michian, Florida, LSU, VA Tech, UGA) in those games for exposure and recruiting purposes, who also give the biggest paydays that will be nearly doubled as an FBS program. Also, ticket prices for home games are expected to increase moderately ($5-$10, I believe) but once we are established enough to get home dates with in-state FBS opponents and/or BCS conference opponents, those tickets will sell at a premium and likely bring a larger crowd than usual.

If we use a conservative figure of $5 ticket increase, 27K attendance and 6 home games, that is $810K in additional annual revenue. Factor in an extra $300K for the annual BCS game, which is also a conservative figure, and you are looking at approximately $1.1M in additional funds. None of us know how it will play out but I also think that you will see some increase in alumni donations, corporate sponsorship and merchandise sales.

Another thing to consider is the big picture, where college football is heading. It is my opinion that in the next 5-10 years once all the realignment has settled down and the BCS conferences have locked in their stranglehold on the sport, we will see the non-AQ FBS conferences regionalize into alignments that make more sense geographically. Our window of opportunity to be part of that group is shrinking and I think we need a seat at the table, so to speak.

Conference realignment is a fluid thing and I trust that the people in charge know what they're doing more than the message board experts who like to tell us how stupid we are for wanting to be FBS. Appalachian will be just fine.

[eaglewraith]

No, wrong on several accounts. FBS cannot offer anything but full scholarships. What costs are you speaking of other than the difference in number of scholarships exactly?

Actually, the difference is how the scholarships are allotted. In FCS, you're given the equivalent of 63 scholarships that you can split however you want but you can only have 85 players maximum receiving some sort of assistance. In FBS, any amount of aid you give to a player counts as 1 scholarship. So you potentially have to be able to afford 85 full scholarships, but you don't have to be giving out 85 full scholarships if that makes sense.

[PaladinFan]

This post makes a lot of sense. Yet, when the same concept is applied to the Southern Conference ... the SoCon went ahead and added a whole bunch of teams many years ago, expanding the league and further diluting the already miniscule revenue stream from tournament participation. They did so under Wright Water's watch .... who sold the idea on the merits of chasing that at-large basketball invite to March Madness that has never materialized once.

Ultimately, I don't believe conference size to be the barrier it was 20-30 years ago. Sure, there are moments where it would appear to be a deal breaker, but the additions the SunBelt is considering are more about league preservation, opportunity to add a football championship game and the split into divisions which provide a little regional stability and potentially drive more interest on campus. That is the ROI that the SunBelt is considering here, IMO ... not the incremental cut on the overall share.

I think its a reasonable way to look at it.

The read I cannot get on the SunBelt is whether it is a conference full of folks wishing they were somewhere else. It has always struck me as a conference of misfits that would be on the first boat out to whatever opportunity comes along next.

Oddly, I don't get that feeling about the MAC, which is (IMO) generally the worst FBS conference in talent. The MAC, I think, embraces that they are a bunch of second tier athletic programs in the Great Lakes, and just accepts that. If one has a great season (a la Buffalo or Ball State), then bully for them. Maybe they lose their coach, but they might be the most stable conference in college football.

For whatever reason, the SBC just does not evidence that level of stability. They have no real identity. No real core. It's almost like a waiting room for developing programs. I think there is value in their admins in focusing on building a conference of second tier programs in the south. I think they can make that work.

[Saint3333]

I wonder if SoCon schools will still schedule App and GSU in basketball and baseball going forward?

I'd like to see our bball rivalry with DC continue.

[Saint3333]

I think we'll see a realigning of southeastern schools within 10 years.

[MplsBison]

No, wrong on several accounts. FBS cannot offer anything but full scholarships. What costs are you speaking of other than the difference in number of scholarships exactly?

I'd be happy to educate you.

The rules for scholarships in FCS and FBS are pretty much the same. Both sub divisions allow a maximum of 85 players on the team to receive some form of scholarship, whether that be partial or full.

Simply, if an FBS school is awarding the maximum number of scholarships allowed in that sub-division (85) then mathematically they must be award a full scholarship to all 85 players.

However, the minimum for FBS is 76.5. So absolutely if a school is awarding say 80 scholarships to 85 players, then obviously those last 10 guys are only getting halves.


As for your second question, I have no idea as to what you're insinuating I was saying. Elaborate.

[CrazyCat]

FBS can give partials but it counts as a full.

[MplsBison]

FBS can give partials but it counts as a full.

Effectively that's correct, as any partial or full scholarship awarded still counts the same toward the 85 player cap.

But technically a FBS school awarding 80.2 scholarships to 85 players is recorded as awarding 80.2 scholarships, not 85.

[utcfan]

There will be added travel expenses along with the scholarships but if they do an East/West division split as is expected, it won't be quite as drastic as most initially thought. The big question is how much of that will be offset by new revenues.

I don't think anyone in our administration is counting on big TV $$ from a potential Sun Belt move. However, as has been stated before, any TV deal is better than none and we will get more exposure by having at least a couple of our games televised each year. If the conference goes to 12 and has a championship game, that would add further potential.

As I see it, the potential revenues would come partially from higher payouts for games with BCS opponents. App typically plays the really big boys (Michian, Florida, LSU, VA Tech, UGA) in those games for exposure and recruiting purposes, who also give the biggest paydays that will be nearly doubled as an FBS program. Also, ticket prices for home games are expected to increase moderately ($5-$10, I believe) but once we are established enough to get home dates with in-state FBS opponents and/or BCS conference opponents, those tickets will sell at a premium and likely bring a larger crowd than usual.

If we use a conservative figure of $5 ticket increase, 27K attendance and 6 home games, that is $810K in additional annual revenue. Factor in an extra $300K for the annual BCS game, which is also a conservative figure, and you are looking at approximately $1.1M in additional funds. None of us know how it will play out but I also think that you will see some increase in alumni donations, corporate sponsorship and merchandise sales.

Another thing to consider is the big picture, where college football is heading. It is my opinion that in the next 5-10 years once all the realignment has settled down and the BCS conferences have locked in their stranglehold on the sport, we will see the non-AQ FBS conferences regionalize into alignments that make more sense geographically. Our window of opportunity to be part of that group is shrinking and I think we need a seat at the table, so to speak.

Conference realignment is a fluid thing and I trust that the people in charge know what they're doing more than the message board experts who like to tell us how stupid we are for wanting to be FBS. Appalachian will be just fine.


ASU would also get about double the money for $$$$ games.

[walliver]

ASU would also get about double the money for $$$$ games.

I suspect it will be less than that. App's take-home from FBS games is at or near the top of the list for FCS schools. After a move, their take-home will probably be towards the bottom of FBS list, at least initially.

[Saint3333]

Michigan is offering App $1M in 2014 if we are FBS.

[Laker]

Michigan is offering App $1M in 2014 if we are FBS.

To get more computer points for a FBS win or less embarrassment for a loss? xintx

[ASU_Fanatic]

So is App going SB or no

[ASUMountaineer]

There will be added travel expenses along with the scholarships but if they do an East/West division split as is expected, it won't be quite as drastic as most initially thought. The big question is how much of that will be offset by new revenues.

I don't think anyone in our administration is counting on big TV $$ from a potential Sun Belt move. However, as has been stated before, any TV deal is better than none and we will get more exposure by having at least a couple of our games televised each year. If the conference goes to 12 and has a championship game, that would add further potential.

As I see it, the potential revenues would come partially from higher payouts for games with BCS opponents. App typically plays the really big boys (Michian, Florida, LSU, VA Tech, UGA) in those games for exposure and recruiting purposes, who also give the biggest paydays that will be nearly doubled as an FBS program. Also, ticket prices for home games are expected to increase moderately ($5-$10, I believe) but once we are established enough to get home dates with in-state FBS opponents and/or BCS conference opponents, those tickets will sell at a premium and likely bring a larger crowd than usual.

If we use a conservative figure of $5 ticket increase, 27K attendance and 6 home games, that is $810K in additional annual revenue. Factor in an extra $300K for the annual BCS game, which is also a conservative figure, and you are looking at approximately $1.1M in additional funds. None of us know how it will play out but I also think that you will see some increase in alumni donations, corporate sponsorship and merchandise sales.

Another thing to consider is the big picture, where college football is heading. It is my opinion that in the next 5-10 years once all the realignment has settled down and the BCS conferences have locked in their stranglehold on the sport, we will see the non-AQ FBS conferences regionalize into alignments that make more sense geographically. Our window of opportunity to be part of that group is shrinking and I think we need a seat at the table, so to speak.

Conference realignment is a fluid thing and I trust that the people in charge know what they're doing more than the message board experts who like to tell us how stupid we are for wanting to be FBS. Appalachian will be just fine.

Great post.

[ASUMountaineer]

Remember Ceteris paribus? Ceteris paribus is not the case here. If it were then your statement would be indisputable. Not to mention the fact that when I put that line in the post it was certainly in the context that considering the budget upgrade it's not a winner in offsetting...much like bowl money claims. I am well aware of what you did and did not say which is why I've already conceded that it was true in as far as it went but stopped well short of what I was putting forth...Ceteris paribus.

Now maybe you're just stopping short again to have a second irrefutable claim? So let me say first off that your claim there is completely correct in as far as it goes. Things have changed dramatically. Now as far as the SBC goes have they changed for the better? Is it a bigger cash cow now than it was a year or two ago? What exactly makes the changes better now than they were when the study was done is what I'm getting at?

I hear ya, and I agree with most of what you said. As I said, there will certainly be an increase in App State's budget if it moves to the SBC, and part of that will be paid for by whatever small amount of TV revenue is gained by joining the SBC. I see it as simply a line item in the budget. I just felt that it would have been important to note that the SoCon has no TV contract.

As to your second point...No, I stopped short because I felt the implication was clear. To clarify, my point was simply that things across the college football landscape have changed dramatically, so it seems apparent that App State's admin now sees the SBC as a viable option. Or, at the very least, a more viable option than the status quo. As we both know, none of us have access to the numbers. So, from a revenue aspect it is difficult to say with any certainty.

I also think it will depend on how the SBC looks if/when additions are made. If App State were to join with GSU, then it is certainly more attractive from a travel standpoint than it was even 2 years ago. When their TV deal is up, what will happen? That's a good question and not something I can answer. Additionally, I'd like to point out that I've never said the Sun Belt would be a "cash cow" for App State.

I do not say this to make a case that App State should continue its efforts to join the SBC, or that App State should remain in the SoCon. As I've said before, the banter back-and-forth about whether or not to move to FBS is ridiculous. None of us have as much information or knowledge of what is going on than the leaders of these schools. I certainly don't think that they are making stupid, ill-informed decisions. If App State's leadership feels that being in the Sun Belt is the best fit for App State, then I'm all for it. If the App State leadership feels that remaining in the SoCon is the best fit for App State, then I'm all for it.

[ASUMountaineer]

ULM:
Football $3,588,964

ULLF:
Football $5,892,869

Arkansas State:
Football $4,341,626

WKU:
Football $5,883,389

Troy:
Football $3,963,058

South Alabama:
Football $6,902,289

Want the average? $5,904,244. Not quite double App State's current expenses. "Only" 63% higher.

No, I didn't want the average--just the numbers. Thanks.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I hear ya, and I agree with most of what you said. As I said, there will certainly be an increase in App State's budget if it moves to the SBC, and part of that will be paid for by whatever small amount of TV revenue is gained by joining the SBC. I see it as simply a line item in the budget. I just felt that it would have been important to note that the SoCon has no TV contract.

You do realize that this could only be a 5 figure sum, or less?


If we use a conservative figure of $5 ticket increase, 27K attendance and 6 home games, that is $810K in additional annual revenue. Factor in an extra $300K for the annual BCS game, which is also a conservative figure, and you are looking at approximately $1.1M in additional funds. None of us know how it will play out but I also think that you will see some increase in alumni donations, corporate sponsorship and merchandise sales.

What if you're paying $3 million more for that $1.1 million in extra revenue?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Was it painful having to invalidate your own argument like that?

LA-Monroe, 6-2 in the conference (tied for 2nd) and goes to a bowl game, with a budget that is smaller than App St and barely larger than Ga Southern. And that's with more scholarships mind you (minimum 90% of the 85 cap is required in FBS).

In other words, you were lying your butt off and App St & GA Southern won't have to spend a cent more than they do now OTHER than to go from 63 to 76.5 scholarships. And before anyone says anything foolish, yes schools can offer non-full rides in FBS.

Ah, mpls, proven wrong yet again and then he cherry-picks Louisiana-Monroe as if it's the bellweather program for Appalachian State to be emulating. xlolx


In other words, you were lying your butt off and App St & GA Southern won't have to spend a cent more than they do now OTHER than to go from 63 to 76.5 scholarships. And before anyone says anything foolish...

Please, stop. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[MplsBison]

Ah, mpls, proven wrong yet again and then he cherry-picks Louisiana-Monroe as if it's the bellweather program for Appalachian State to be emulating. xlolx



Please, stop. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

They tied for 2nd in the conference, could've easily won it, beat Arkansas on the road, should've beat Auburn on the road, should've beat Baylor at home, went to a bowl game.

Did it spending less than App St spends now.

You. Lose.

[ASUMountaineer]

You do realize that this could only be a 5 figure sum, or less?

Could be. I even acknowledged that it could be a small amount. You do realize that I never said it would be a windfall? However, it is revenue that would be included in a budget. I simply said that a TV contract generates more revenue than no TV contract. I'm not sure where the disagreement lies?

What I don't realize is why you are so concerned about App State possibly moving to the Sun Belt. You should take your concerns to Chancellor Peacock, Charlie Cobb, and the Appalachian State BOT. The few of us that read your rants can't offer much assistance.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Could be. I even acknowledged that it could be a small amount. You do realize that I never said it would be a windfall? However, it is revenue that would be included in a budget. I simply said that a TV contract generates more revenue than no TV contract. I'm not sure where the disagreement lies?


.. part of that will be paid for by whatever small amount of TV revenue is gained by joining the SBC. I see it as simply a line item in the budget...

You're taking the penny jar that's represented by the "SBC TV contract" and calling it revenue that would be included in a budget. When you collect the loose change in your seat cushions do you call that "revenue included in the budget" too?

We are talking about such a minuscule amount that it won't even cover the added expense of academic support overhead. Hiring two APR officers might eat up all this "added revenue".

[TheRevSFA]

They tied for 2nd in the conference, could've easily won it, beat Arkansas on the road, should've beat Auburn on the road, should've beat Baylor at home, went to a bowl game.

Did it spending less than App St spends now.

You. Lose.

It only took them nearly 20 years of futility in FBS to have a good year.

[MplsBison]

It only took them nearly 20 years of futility in FBS to have a good year.

Doesn't matter, point's proven. You don't have to double your budget from SoCon to win in the Sun Belt.

He's a liar who will say anything to convince anyone who will listen that FBS football is evil and that all non-BCS teams should be forced down into FCS.

[TheRevSFA]

Doesn't matter, point's proven. You don't have to double your budget from SoCon to win in the Sun Belt.

He's a liar who will say anything to convince anyone who will listen that FBS football is evil and that all non-BCS teams should be forced down into FCS.

True, you don't. However, you apparently have to have 20 years of losing seasons, losses to FCS teams in order to get the recruiting to have one winning season, plus you are able to beat a down SEC team.

Sadtly ULM will be a Jeopardy question in the next 5 years.

[ASUMountaineer]

You're taking the penny jar that's represented by the "SBC TV contract" and calling it revenue that would be included in a budget. When you collect the loose change in your seat cushions do you call that "revenue included in the budget" too?

We are talking about such a minuscule amount that it won't even cover the added expense of academic support overhead. Hiring two APR officers might eat up all this "added revenue".

So, where do we disagree?

Are you saying that the revenue from the SBC TV contract would not be included in the athletics budget? Are you saying that that revenue would not be used to pay for expenditures? I simply said that the potential SBC TV contract revenue would be a line item in the budget. What is your disagreement?

Again, direct your concerns about App State potentially, possibly, maybe-but-maybe-not moving to the Sun Belt to Chancellor Peacock, Charlie Cobb, and the Appalachian State BOT. Your rants here will not result in much, except humor.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What I wouldn't give for someone to obtain the athletic department accounting books of the last three years for App St, Geo Southern and every public, Sun Belt football school that's been in that conference for the last three seasons and then do a study of the actual costs and revenues of each of those schools over the last three seasons.

That might actually have a chance of shutting up a guy like LFN who has nothing better to do than lie his butt off saying things like "it will cost double to be in the Sun Belt as it does to be in the SoCon".


Appalachian State total football expenses:
Football $3,769,377

Middle Tennessee State total football expenses:
Football $7,629,932

It took me about a minute to prove what I said "lying on my butt" looking at the EADA reports. No, really. This internet thing will be great once you know how to use it.


Was it painful having to invalidate your own argument like that?

LA-Monroe, 6-2 in the conference (tied for 2nd) and goes to a bowl game, with a budget that is smaller than App St and barely larger than Ga Southern. And that's with more scholarships mind you (minimum 90% of the 85 cap is required in FBS).

In other words, you were lying your butt off and App St & GA Southern won't have to spend a cent more than they do now OTHER than to go from 63 to 76.5 scholarships. And before anyone says anything foolish, yes schools can offer non-full rides in FBS.


It only took them nearly 20 years of futility in FBS to have a good year.



Doesn't matter, point's proven. You don't have to double your budget from SoCon to win in the Sun Belt.

He's a liar who will say anything to convince anyone who will listen that FBS football is evil and that all non-BCS teams should be forced down into FCS.

Sure. I'm a "liar" invented all those numbers that proved that the average Sun Belt program's expenses are 63% higher than what App State spends today in football, I suppose. Find that EADA website yet? That's where I got them.

Let's just recap for those who are tuning in late.

1. Mpls asks for data concerning athletics expenses in the Sun Belt vis-a-vis Appalachian State to attempt to prove I'm a liar.
2. I provide EADA data not only showing that MTSU has double the expenses of App, I show the average of all the Sun Belt schools is 63% higher than App State's expenses.
3. Mpls attempts to say I'm "invalidating my argument" - not that I made one, I just offered a list of expenses for the last EADA athletics season, but whatever - by mentioning UL-Monroe spent $3.9 million last season and went to a bowl game and stuff. Never mind this is still a 21% increase in spending over what App State is spending. For good measure, he throws that "liar" thing in there as if quoting from the EADA reports is somehow lying.
4. Mpls then attempts, in his short-attention-span-theater way, to say 1) my real mission was to prove you have to double your SoCon budget to win the Sun Belt (not that I was arguing anything, but whatever), and 2) that I'm (once again) a liar who will say anything to convince people that FBS is evil and non-BCS teams should be "forced down to FCS".

In other words: Mpls asks for facts; I give them to him; he calls me a liar. xlolx

I don't apologize for saying and believing that I think moving to the Sun Belt is a bad idea for App State and Georgia Southern, or for any school. The reason I believe this is that all the financial benefits of joining the Sun Belt are illusory. Always has been, always will be.

To a person any school with fans of their school talk about financial windfalls of joining FBS - it is always, ALWAYS in whole or in part a reason for the school to go to FBS.

But in a conference like the Sun Belt there is no financial windfall. There's no "Sun Belt Network" that pumps millions into the coffers every month. There's no realistic chance at a crystal ball championship. There isn't even any significant Sun Belt NCAA men's basketball tournament revenue. IMO any financial windfall ends up being mostly in the minds of those who want to make the move, mostly with bull**** invented statements of fantasy-based fact-free conclusions like "FCS will die without us in five years!" "We have a seat at the same table with the B1G, we're equals!" "Division I football will break apart, and we'll be on the good, money-making side! We have to make the move before time runs out!" "The Sun Belt is 'big time', and the SoCon is not!"

Hm. Fantasy-based, fact-free conclusions. Sounds like mpls' body of work.

[MplsBison]

True, you don't. However, you apparently have to have 20 years of losing seasons, losses to FCS teams in order to get the recruiting to have one winning season, plus you are able to beat a down SEC team.

Sadtly ULM will be a Jeopardy question in the next 5 years.

No, as always it comes down to getting a special coach. Todd Berry hasn't been there 20 years and probably won't be there much longer.

It was a simple point. He was wrong. He even proved himself wrong. Case closed.

[MplsBison]

Sure. I'm a "liar" invented all those numbers that proved that the average Sun Belt program's expenses are 63% higher than what App State spends today in football, I suppose. Find that EADA website yet? That's where I got them.

Let's just recap for those who are tuning in late.

1. Mpls asks for data concerning athletics expenses in the Sun Belt vis-a-vis Appalachian State to attempt to prove I'm a liar.
2. I provide EADA data not only showing that MTSU has double the expenses of App, I show the average of all the Sun Belt schools is 63% higher than App State's expenses.
3. Mpls attempts to say I'm "invalidating my argument" - not that I made one, I just offered a list of expenses for the last EADA athletics season, but whatever - by mentioning UL-Monroe spent $3.9 million last season and went to a bowl game and stuff. Never mind this is still a 21% increase in spending over what App State is spending. For good measure, he throws that "liar" thing in there as if quoting from the EADA reports is somehow lying.
4. Mpls then attempts, in his short-attention-span-theater way, to say 1) my real mission was to prove you have to double your SoCon budget to win the Sun Belt (not that I was arguing anything, but whatever), and 2) that I'm (once again) a liar who will say anything to convince people that FBS is evil and non-BCS teams should be "forced down to FCS".

In other words: Mpls asks for facts; I give them to him; he calls me a liar. xlolx

I don't apologize for saying and believing that I think moving to the Sun Belt is a bad idea for App State and Georgia Southern, or for any school. The reason I believe this is that all the financial benefits of joining the Sun Belt are illusory. Always has been, always will be.

To a person any school with fans of their school talk about financial windfalls of joining FBS - it is always, ALWAYS in whole or in part a reason for the school to go to FBS.

But in a conference like the Sun Belt there is no financial windfall. There's no "Sun Belt Network" that pumps millions into the coffers every month. There's no realistic chance at a crystal ball championship. There isn't even any significant Sun Belt NCAA men's basketball tournament revenue. IMO any financial windfall ends up being mostly in the minds of those who want to make the move, mostly with bull**** invented statements of fantasy-based fact-free conclusions like "FCS will die without us in five years!" "We have a seat at the same table with the B1G, we're equals!" "Division I football will break apart, and we'll be on the good, money-making side! We have to make the move before time runs out!" "The Sun Belt is 'big time', and the SoCon is not!"

Hm. Fantasy-based, fact-free conclusions. Sounds like mpls' body of work.

You said they'd have to double their budget. You were being dishonest and attempting to deceive people, on purpose.

Try to church it up all you want. You're not convincing anyone that your viewpoint is correct.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I hear ya, and I agree with most of what you said. As I said, there will certainly be an increase in App State's budget if it moves to the SBC, and part of that will be paid for by whatever small amount of TV revenue is gained by joining the SBC. I see it as simply a line item in the budget. I just felt that it would have been important to note that the SoCon has no TV contract.

As to your second point...No, I stopped short because I felt the implication was clear. To clarify, my point was simply that things across the college football landscape have changed dramatically, so it seems apparent that App State's admin now sees the SBC as a viable option. Or, at the very least, a more viable option than the status quo. As we both know, none of us have access to the numbers. So, from a revenue aspect it is difficult to say with any certainty.

I also think it will depend on how the SBC looks if/when additions are made. If App State were to join with GSU, then it is certainly more attractive from a travel standpoint than it was even 2 years ago. When their TV deal is up, what will happen? That's a good question and not something I can answer. Additionally, I'd like to point out that I've never said the Sun Belt would be a "cash cow" for App State.

I do not say this to make a case that App State should continue its efforts to join the SBC, or that App State should remain in the SoCon. As I've said before, the banter back-and-forth about whether or not to move to FBS is ridiculous. None of us have as much information or knowledge of what is going on than the leaders of these schools. I certainly don't think that they are making stupid, ill-informed decisions. If App State's leadership feels that being in the Sun Belt is the best fit for App State, then I'm all for it. If the App State leadership feels that remaining in the SoCon is the best fit for App State, then I'm all for it.

Good stuff. Agree with ya on all of it. This is just an exercise in getting out the things that we know so I figured I'd do it with someone I could have a rational and productive discussion with.

When I see people still touting "Bowl money and TV revenue" as some big carrot that can be relied upon as a revenue stream I like to point out that this stuff can be fairly accurately quantified and that argument is at best very shaky if not just outright false. You didn't call the TV revenue a cash cow but that is what has been alluded to over and over and in some cases it's true, this one it is not. I know you understand that, others apparently do not yet.

Nice work ASUM.

[ASUMountaineer]

Good stuff. Agree with ya on all of it. This is just an exercise in getting out the things that we know so I figured I'd do it with someone I could have a rational and productive discussion with.

When I see people still touting "Bowl money and TV revenue" as some big carrot that can be relied upon as a revenue stream I like to point out that this stuff can be fairly accurately quantified and that argument is at best very shaky if not just outright false. You didn't call the TV revenue a cash cow but that is what has been alluded to over and over and in some cases it's true, this one it is not. I know you understand that, others apparently do not yet.

Nice work ASUM.

Thanks man...good discussion is always welcome, I just wish I was well-versed with brevity. xlolx

The football schools making up the soon-to-not-be Big East should show that there is not a lot of TV revenue for schools outside of the B1G, Bix XII, SEC, Pac-12, and to a lesser extent the ACC. I cringe at times when I see some of my fellow Mountaineers being brash about a potential move, but it's easy to do so in these forums.

Unlike LFN, I have no reason to doubt App State's leadership. App State's leadership seems to acting in a very measured manner, and I believe will do what is truly in the best interest of Appalachian State.

I wish I had the time to focus on Lehigh's administration like LFN has to focus on App State's, but I am not as fortunate. Although, it is nice to know he is extremely concerned.

[ASUMountaineer]

I don't apologize for saying and believing that I think moving to the Sun Belt is a bad idea for App State and Georgia Southern, or for any school. The reason I believe this is that all the financial benefits of joining the Sun Belt are illusory. Always has been, always will be.

To a person any school with fans of their school talk about financial windfalls of joining FBS - it is always, ALWAYS in whole or in part a reason for the school to go to FBS.

But in a conference like the Sun Belt there is no financial windfall. There's no "Sun Belt Network" that pumps millions into the coffers every month. There's no realistic chance at a crystal ball championship. There isn't even any significant Sun Belt NCAA men's basketball tournament revenue. IMO any financial windfall ends up being mostly in the minds of those who want to make the move, mostly with bull**** invented statements of fantasy-based fact-free conclusions like "FCS will die without us in five years!" "We have a seat at the same table with the B1G, we're equals!" "Division I football will break apart, and we'll be on the good, money-making side! We have to make the move before time runs out!" "The Sun Belt is 'big time', and the SoCon is not!"

Would you tell all of us App State and GSU fans, that will support our admin's potential decision to move to the SBC, why we should believe an anonymous message board poster over the leaders of the universities? How is it that you have more knowledge and information that clearly shows that such a decision would not be in the best interest of either App State or GSU? What makes you more in-tune with Appalachian State and Georgia Southern than the highly qualified individuals that were hand-selected to run these universities?

You'll notice that I do not say what App State and GSU should do. I have an opinion of what I think would be best, but I readily acknowledge that I do not have access to all of the information that they do, and will defer to their judgment. You're more than welcome to your opinion, but I will choose to follow the judgment of our leaders versus a guy posting on a message board with an axe to grind. xnodx

[asumike83]

What if you're paying $3 million more for that $1.1 million in extra revenue?

We'd be down $1.9M?

I'm just not sure why our expenses would go from $3.7M to $6.7M. My $1.1M figure for increased revenue assumes that prices only increase $5, we only get $300K more for a BCS game, see no increase in attendance, no TV money, no increased merchandising, no corporate sponsorships and no increase in donations.

Even using that conservative figure, that would allow us to cover $4.8M which would put us on par with the conference and above Troy, Arkansas State and ULM currently. Troy has been one of the most successful football and baseball programs in that conference, Arkansas State has had consecutive 10-win seasons and conference championships.

We do not have to outspend everyone to be successful. We are currently $300K below the SoCon average of $4M. Using the low-ball figure $4.8M, we would be $1.1M below the Sun Belt average of $5.9M. Other schools have had success with equal or less, but $400K-$600K below the average is a more likely scenario. Not far from where we currently sit relative to our SoCon peers. We will be just fine.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Would you tell all of us App State and GSU fans, that will support our admin's potential decision to move to the SBC, why we should believe an anonymous message board poster over the leaders of the universities? How is it that you have more knowledge and information that clearly shows that such a decision would not be in the best interest of either App State or GSU? What makes you more in-tune with Appalachian State and Georgia Southern than the highly qualified individuals that were hand-selected to run these universities?

1. I've seen this show before.
2. I am not blinded by institutional ego.
3. I don't get a pay raise if this thing goes through.

[ASUMountaineer]

1. I've seen this show before. We all have.
2. I am not blinded by institutional ego. You're blinded by your agenda.
3. I don't get a pay raise if this thing goes through. Do you know that the State of NC will kick in more funds for giving raises for a move to FBS, or is this another assumption?

Is that your answer to the first questions?

Where did you gain your knowledge and information of the specific situations regarding App State and GSU that prove that your information is superior?

How are you more in-tune with Appalachian State and Georgia Southern than the leaders of the universities?

I'm guessing you have no first-hand knowledge of what the leaders are doing, reviewing, and considering. You have some sort of issue with App State and GSU (or any FCS school) even considering a move to FBS. You apparently have a lot of time on your hands to be so devoted to constantly give criticism of a potential, possible, maybe-but-maybe-not move to the SBC. I've asked before, but you didn't answer--isn't there something going on with Lehigh that you could focus on?

I've said I'm good if we move to the SBC/FBS, and good if we stay in the SoCon. Why do you care so much?

[asumike83]

1. I've seen this show before.
2. I am not blinded by institutional ego.
3. I don't get a pay raise if this thing goes through.

None of this will happen without the blessing of our chancellor. Dr. Peacock has been on campus since 1983 and has "seen this show before" a time or two himself. He has led the university to success athletically and academically since he was named chancellor in 2004, is a member of the NCAA Division I Presidential Advisory Group and if you've ever met the man, you'd know he wants what is best for Appalachian.

To suggest that he is willing to support a move that hurts the university for personal gains is a baseless assumption.

I hope you see the irony of calling our administration "blinded by ego" as you explain how you're more well-qualified to do their job than they are.

[CID1990]

You said they'd have to double their budget. You were being dishonest and attempting to deceive people, on purpose.

Try to church it up all you want. You're not convincing anyone that your viewpoint is correct.

Holy Mensa meeting, Batman!

Mensabison's back from the Comic Con!

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/12/zuqydega.jpg


Sent from the center of the universe.

[MplsBison]

None of this will happen without the blessing of our chancellor. Dr. Peacock has been on campus since 1983 and has "seen this show before" a time or two himself. He has led the university to success athletically and academically since he was named chancellor in 2004, is a member of the NCAA Division I Presidential Advisory Group and if you've ever met the man, you'd know he wants what is best for Appalachian.

To suggest that he is willing to support a move that hurts the university for personal gains is a baseless assumption.

I hope you see the irony of calling our administration "blinded by ego" as you explain how you're more well-qualified to do their job than they are.

At some point the entertainment of arguing with LFN diminishes to the point where it's no longer worth your time. He's just going to keep talking past you, to his imagined choir.

You're never going to convince him of a single iota and he the same with you. The points have been made - ultimately no one can have pre-knowledge of how it exactly will shake out.

That's why I made my rhetorical plea earlier to see every line item of every Sun Belt public school athletic budget for the last three years, so we could see exactly who's making what money and from where. Etc. Alas, never to be known unless some brave journalist submitted a public request for info I suppose. But I have no idea if the schools would have to honor it or weather they could purposefully go around it by pointing to something with no line item detail like the OPE equity in athletics database.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

At some point the entertainment of arguing with LFN diminishes to the point where it's no longer worth your time. He's just going to keep talking past you, to his imagined choir.

You're never going to convince him of a single iota and he the same with you. The points have been made - ultimately no one can have pre-knowledge of how it exactly will shake out.

That's why I made my rhetorical plea earlier to see every line item of every Sun Belt public school athletic budget for the last three years, so we could see exactly who's making what money and from where. Etc. Alas, never to be known unless some brave journalist submitted a public request for info I suppose. But I have no idea if the schools would have to honor it or weather they could purposefully go around it by pointing to something with no line item detail like the OPE equity in athletics database.

I forgot about mpls' "denial that the actual answer exists already in this thread" move. A common dodge.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com

[ASUMountaineer]

I forgot about mpls' "denial that the actual answer exists already in this thread" move. A common dodge.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com

xlolx that's rich.

[superman7515]

This is a three page article with quite a bit more info on bowl tie-ins, a conference championship game, and more, so check the link for the full story and check back later for LFN's rebuttal...

Sun Belt Commish Addresses Leagues Realignment (http://www.dnj.com/article/20130310/BLUERAIDERS02/303100051/Sun-Belt-commish-addresses-league-s-realignment?gcheck=1&nclick_check=1)


On potential members and whether they are mainly FCS:

“Many of the perspective schools in the pool fit the bill. The majority of the schools we are looking at are FCS, but we do acknowledge that New Mexico State and Idaho are in need a conference and are being assessed. We are looking specifically for schools that will add stability and value. We also are exploring the possibility of football-only members, and it’s not just limited to NMSU and Idaho. We have created a lot of maps with different possibilities that would fit many of our needs including geography.”

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As expected, nothing about additional costs or any talk of basketball.

He did manage three different references to the "next Boise State", the go-to Karl Benson move when it comes to convincing members to join his conferences. Benson - now there's a guy that could sell ice to eskimos.

[The Moody1]

Benson - now there's a guy that could sell ice to eskimos.


That's ok, you specialize in selling bikinis to fat chicks. xlolx

[MplsBison]

CUSA is currently going up to 13 full members, once Charlotte and ODU are fully on board.

I wonder if when Tulsa leaves for the America 12, will the CUSA take two from the Sun Belt? Marshall, LA Tech and Middle Tennessee are a bit on their own.

Adding Western Kentucky for Middle Tennessee and Arkansas St for LA Tech could work...but not sure if they really need to go from 12 to 14 just for the sake of adding members, especially if it dilutes any money from media.


So disregarding any potential movement higher than the America 12, it makes me wonder if the present Sun Belt is more or less safe for now?