FCS Combine numbers.

[Tribe4SF]

Figured a thread with results would be good.

Here's BW Webb from W&M.

40- 4.51
Vertical- 40.5 in. (top among DBs)
Broad- 11 feet
Bench- 14 reps
20 yd. shuttle- 3.84 sec (top among DBs)
three cone- 6.82 sec
60 yd. shuttle- 11.06 sec (top among DBs)

[344Johnson]

Figured a thread with results would be good.

Here's BW Webb from W&M.

40- 4.51
Vertical- 40.5 in. (top among DBs)
Broad- 11 feet
Bench- 14 reps
20 yd. shuttle- 3.84 sec (top among DBs)
three cone- 6.82 sec
60 yd. shuttle- 11.06 sec (top among DBs)

Good for him. Hope it helps his stock out.

[lionsrking2]

Robert Alford, CB, Southeastern Louisiana

40- 4.39 (4th among DBs, tied for 6th best time overall)
Vertical- 40.0 in. (2nd best among DBs, 3rd overall)
Broad- 11.0 ft (3rd among DBs, tied for 6th overall)
Bench- 17 reps (tied for 7th among DBs)
3-cone- 6.89

[eaglewraith]

JJ Wilcox, FS, Georgia Southern

40 - 4.57 (8th among Safeties)
Vertical - 35.0 in
Broad - 10ft 4in (tied for 7th among Safeties)
Bench - 17 (tied for 7th among DBs)
3-cone - 7.02
20 yard shuttle - 4.09 (4th among safeties)

JJ didn't set records, but he showed he means business. Couple that with the eyes he opened at the Senior Bowl and he could be moving up the draft board. He's been projected in the second round in several places and I wouldn't be shocked to see it happen. Can't wait to see how his Pro Day goes.

[asu3peat]

Demetrius McCray, CB, App State

There were a total of 32 cb's

40 - 4.54 (official) 19/32
Bench - 4 32/32
Vert - 36.0 6/32 (four tied with 36.0)
3 cone - 7.17 31/32
Broad Jump - 126.0'' (10.5) 6/32
20 yd shuttle - 4.32 31/32

Needs to improve the bolded numbers by the time ASU's pro day rolls around.

[CFBfan]

Demetrius McCray, CB, App State

There were a total of 32 cb's

40 - 4.54 (official) 19/32
Bench - 4 32/32
Vert - 36.0 6/32 (four tied with 36.0)
3 cone - 7.17 31/32
Broad Jump - 126.0'' (10.5) 6/32
20 yd shuttle - 4.32 31/32

Needs to improve the bolded numbers by the time ASU's pro day rolls around.

i don't think the bench is a big deal for cb's shuttle and cones are

[blueballs]

i don't think the bench is a big deal for cb's shuttle and cones are

The bench is very big deal for CB's for a couple of reasons.

First, how are you going to jam Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson if you aren't that strong because that's about the best chance you have of disrupting them.

Secondly, it speaks directly to an athlete's dedication. You know you're going to be tested and it is for real. There is generational wealth at stake. You take it seriously and kick *** if you are a professional.

[Bisonoline]

The bench is very big deal for CB's for a couple of reasons.

First, how are you going to jam Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson if you aren't that strong because that's about the best chance you have of disrupting them.

Secondly, it speaks directly to an athlete's dedication. You know you're going to be tested and it is for real. There is generational wealth at stake. You take it seriously and kick *** if you are a professional.

If they cant bench 225 then they havent tried or worked at it very hard.

[chattownmocs]

Demetrius McCray, CB, App State

There were a total of 32 cb's

40 - 4.54 (official) 19/32
Bench - 4 32/32
Vert - 36.0 6/32 (four tied with 36.0)
3 cone - 7.17 31/32
Broad Jump - 126.0'' (10.5) 6/32
20 yd shuttle - 4.32 31/32

Needs to improve the bolded numbers by the time ASU's pro day rolls around.


Weird athlete. He can jump but he is obviously not that athletic when it comes to change of direction etc. Pretty dismal performance to be at or near the bottom in half of the events. Pro day wont save this guy. He wasnt a very good college player but you guys hyped him as this incredible athlete.

[chattownmocs]

What is the FCS record for guys at the combine for one FCS team? I'm guessing Chattanooga will have a chance to approach it this coming year with 3+ guys.

[Apphole]

What is the FCS record for guys at the combine for one FCS team? I'm guessing Chattanooga will have a chance to approach it this coming year with 3+ guys.

We had 3 players drafted a few years ago. I don't recall if they all participated in the combine.

And yeah right. Just like your man crush, BJ Coleman right?

[chattownmocs]

We had 3 players drafted a few years ago. I don't recall if they all participated in the combine.

And yeah right. Just like your man crush, BJ Coleman right?

More nonsense from you. BJ Coleman was at the combine and yes he was drafted. what in the world are you talking about?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh's Ryan Spadola did quite well

Height - 6'1
Weight - 204
Arm Length - 30 & 3/4"
Hand Size - 9 & 3/4"
40 Time - 4.48
Bench - 15 reps
Vertical - 33.5"
Broad Jump - 119"
3 Cone Drill - 6.72
20 Yard Shuttle - 4.07
60 Yard Shuttle - 11.35

[asumike83]

I wish Steven Miller had gotten a combine invite, I think he will open some eyes when he works out at App's pro day.

[CFBfan]

The bench is very big deal for CB's for a couple of reasons.

First, how are you going to jam Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson if you aren't that strong because that's about the best chance you have of disrupting them.

Secondly, it speaks directly to an athlete's dedication. You know you're going to be tested and it is for real. There is generational wealth at stake. You take it seriously and kick *** if you are a professional.

my point is if he can't run a good shuttle or cone drill i don't care how much he benches

[blueballs]

What is the FCS record for guys at the combine for one FCS team?

I don't know the answer to that but I wonder if App's SR class of 2007 (combine 2008) didn't set the FCS record.

[seantaylor]

Those are terrible all around numbers for a corner. Won't be drafted.

[jpincince]

Aaron Mellette:

Height - 6'2"
Weight - 217
Arm Length - 33 & 1/8"
Hand Size - 9 & 5/8"
40 Time - 4.54
Bench - 9 reps
Vertical - 33.5"
Broad Jump - 123"
3 Cone Drill - 7.11
20 Yard Shuttle - 4.41

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Aaron Mellette:

Height - 6'2"
Weight - 217
Arm Length - 33 & 1/8"
Hand Size - 9 & 5/8"
40 Time - 4.54
Bench - 9 reps
Vertical - 33.5"
Broad Jump - 123"
3 Cone Drill - 7.11
20 Yard Shuttle - 4.41

Spadola out did Mellette at the combine. Did Kauffman participate?

[SU DOG]

Nick Williams DL Samford
Combine Numbers:
6'4" 309 lbs


Arm length - 34 1/8"
Hands - 10 1/4"
40m - 4.94 seconds
Bench - 28 reps
Vertical - 33 inches
Broad Jump - 111 inches
Cones - 7.55 seconds
20 yd Shuttle - 4.65 seconds
Those are some pretty good numbers for a player this size.

[Nickels]

Spadola out did Mellette at the combine. Did Kauffman participate?
That depends how loosely you use the term "participate".

Kaufman
40 - 4.67
bench - 9 reps
vert - 33.5
broad jump - 115
3 cone - 7.11
20 shuffle - 4.44
60 shuffle - 12.14

He was near or at the bottom in most workouts. Perhaps he was injured?


SHSU's Dax Swanson pulled something, but he still put up decent numbers.
40 - 4.56
bench - 15 reps
vert - 33.0
broad jump - 122

[Silenoz]

Da'Rick Rogers - Tennessee Tech
40 - 4.52
bench - 10
vert - 39.5
broad jump - 11
3 cone - 6.71
20 shuffle - 4.06


Overall, Da’Rick Rogers finished with a fantastic day. He ran a 4.52, which is fine for his size, and he finished in the Top 5 in the 3-cone, 20-yard shuttle, 60-yard shuttle, vertical jump and broad jump. At 6-foot-2, 217 pounds, that’s a fantastic athlete.

[Silenoz]

oops

[smallcollegefbfan]

What is the FCS record for guys at the combine for one FCS team? I'm guessing Chattanooga will have a chance to approach it this coming year with 3+ guys.

Hampton has had 3 or 4 in one year and App State had 3 one year. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Chattanooga does not have 3 players for next year who could get a combine invite. I have already talked to scouts who have gone through and looked at them. Your best prospect is the DT Lott. He is a PFA on my list. Key is a mid level FA on my list and I rejected the others as prospects. Those are the only two with a shot to get a combine invite and I think it's too early to speculate that both will get one for sure, possible but still too early. Wise and Dothard will really need to run well for scouts this spring to even be in that discussion. Neither of them are close to ideal size at all.

It's early and I know that 1-3 players will come out of nowhere next year but the only SoCon players who I believe have an early shot at the combine right now are Tony Washington of App State, Lott/Key of UTC, McKinnon of GSU, and Truss/Pope from Samford. Someone else may develop but those are the only ones that I would feel good about recommending right now. If all of them make it, that would be a solid group though.

[smallcollegefbfan]

And here are the full, official results on all FCS players. NFL.com did not report the 10 and 20 yard times but I put them below.

Pos NAME TEAM HT WT HAND ARM WING BENCH FORTY 1 10 YD 20 YD VJ BJ 20 Shuttle 3 CONE
OT JOHNSON-WEBB, JAMAAL ALABAMA A&M 6050 313 10 35.6 84.3 17 5.37 1.87 3.04 23 92 4.74 8.12
DC MCCRAY, DEMETRIUS APPALACHIAN ST 6007 187 9.2 33.7 80.4 4 4.54 1.57 2.58 36 126 4.32 7.17
OT ARMSTEAD, TERRON ARKANSAS-PINEBLUFF 6046 306 9.2 34 81.5 31 4.71 1.71 2.73 34.5 112 4.72 7.62
OG TRETTER, J C CORNELL-NY 6035 307 10.1 33.3 78.1 29 5.09 1.75 2.95 29.5 109 4.69 7.48
WR GOARD, TYRONE EASTERN KENTUCKY 6036 205 8.6 34 80.5 10 4.50 1.55 2.64 36 123 4.39 6.90
WR KAUFMAN, BRANDON EASTERN WASHINGTON 6050 216 9.2 32.3 77.7 9 4.67 1.63 2.68 33.5 115 4.44 7.11
WR MELLETTE, AARON ELON 6023 217 9.5 33.1 78 9 4.54 1.58 2.55 33.5 123 4.41 7.11
ILB HEPBURN, BRANDON FLORIDA A&M 6024 240 9 32.4 77.3 21 4.68 1.63 2.67 32 124 4.55 7.40
DS WILCOX, J J GEORGIA SOUTHERN 6000 213 9 31 74.5 17 4.57 1.53 2.58 35 124 4.09 7.02
OLB POUGH, KEITH HOWARD 6016 239 9.5 33.4 79.5 17 4.90 1.66 2.73 33 118 4.47 7.28
WR BONNER, ALAN JACKSONVILLE ST-AL 5102 193 9.3 30.2 74.4 14 4.59 1.61 2.62 33 117 4.15
OG WATFORD, EARL JAMES MADISON 6033 300 10 34 80 24 5.06 1.76 2.90 30 107 5.00 7.77
WR SPADOLA, RYAN LEHIGH 6012 204 9.6 30.6 73 15 4.48 1.56 2.62 33.5 119 4.07 6.72
DT SMITH, JARED NEW HAMPSHIRE 6033 302 10.4 33.4 80.5 28 5.08 1.72 2.92 32.5 115 4.39 7.20
DC SWANSON, DAXTON SAM HOUSTON ST 5100 186 8.6 30.3 71.1 15 4.56 1.59 2.63 33 122
DT WILLIAMS, NICK SAMFORD 6044 309 10.2 34.1 81 28 4.94 1.72 2.76 33 111 4.65 7.55
DC ALFORD, ROBERT SOUTHEASTERN LOUISIANA 5102 188 9.4 32 75 17 4.39 1.56 2.49 40 132 4.23 6.89
QB SORENSEN, BRAD SOUTHERN UTAH 6044 229 9.2 32.2 75.7 4.97 1.66 2.79 29 112 4.55 7.17
RB MAYSONET, MIGUEL STONY BROOK 5090 209 8.4 29.3 71 20 4.43 7.21
OT GAINES, ROGERS TENNESSEE ST 6062 334 10.5 36.2 84.4 28 5.24 1.76 2.93 23 5.24
WR ROGERS, DA’RICK TENNESSEE TECH 6024 217 9.4 32.6 77.7 9 4.52 1.57 2.61 39.5 132 4.06 6.71
DT HUGHES, MONTORI TENNESSEE-MARTIN 6040 329 10.1 32.5 80 22 5.23 1.73 2.65 26.5 104 4.70 7.85
DC WEBB, BW WILLIAM & MARY 5102 184 9.3 30.2 73 14 4.51 1.52 2.54 40.5 132 3.84 6.82
OG MADY, LAMAR YOUNGSTOWN ST 6020 317 9.3 33.4 78.3 35 5.48 1.87 3.09 23 95 4.82 8.07

[chattownmocs]

Hampton has had 3 or 4 in one year and App State had 3 one year. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Chattanooga does not have 3 players for next year who could get a combine invite. I have already talked to scouts who have gone through and looked at them. Your best prospect is the DT Lott. He is a PFA on my list. Key is a mid level FA on my list and I rejected the others as prospects. Those are the only two with a shot to get a combine invite and I think it's too early to speculate that both will get one for sure, possible but still too early. Wise and Dothard will really need to run well for scouts this spring to even be in that discussion. Neither of them are close to ideal size at all.

It's early and I know that 1-3 players will come out of nowhere next year but the only SoCon players who I believe have an early shot at the combine right now are Tony Washington of App State, Lott/Key of UTC, McKinnon of GSU, and Truss/Pope from Samford. Someone else may develop but those are the only ones that I would feel good about recommending right now. If all of them make it, that would be a solid group though.


Lott is a lock. Kadeem Wise, DJ Key and Wes Dothard have a shot, Wise being the most likely. Don't dismiss the possibility of Davis Tull Leaving early either. You swore up and down that Demetrius McCray was an absolute stud and he completely bombed out of the combine. I would guess they will take your recommendations with a grain of salt from here on out.

BTW, Wes Dothard is 6'1" 235 lbs. Absolute ideal size. The question is whether he can run.

[smallcollegefbfan]

More nonsense from you. BJ Coleman was at the combine and yes he was drafted. what in the world are you talking about?

You are right in that he was drafted but I remember you saying 4th or 5th round. I kept telling you hate is a 7th round or PFA grade who may sneak in to the 6th round. He was drafted 243rd overall with a compensatory pick.

For those who don't know the NFL teams view the draft in two parts. 1st-5th rounds are the draftable players. 6th and 7th round is where you get free agent caliber players or a player like Dennard who dropped due to character or a guy with medical concerns who dropped. Coleman being taken as late as he was pretty much was a priority free agent grade who was taken because of size and arm strength. If Coleman had been considered a stud or even a really good player he would have gone in the 4th or 5th round, easily. He might have gone in the 3rd round with a big senior year, invite to the Senior Bowl, and slightly better test numbers.

Coleman was a guy people thought may end up in the 4th or 5th round coming in to the season but he had a bad year and just okay test numbers. If he were just 6'3 or 6'2 he would not have been drafted and almost wasn't.

I try not to be a know it all but I would hope that over the years you notice I'm pretty close on NFL stock with players. You can't be close without watching tape, talking to coaches, NFL teams, etc.

[chattownmocs]

You are right in that he was drafted but I remember you saying 4th or 5th round. I kept telling you hate is a 7th round or PFA grade who may sneak in to the 6th round. He was drafted 243rd overall with a compensatory pick.

For those who don't know the NFL teams view the draft in two parts. 1st-5th rounds are the draftable players. 6th and 7th round is where you get free agent caliber players or a player like Dennard who dropped due to character or a guy with medical concerns who dropped. Coleman being taken as late as he was pretty much was a priority free agent grade who was taken because of size and arm strength. If Coleman had been considered a stud or even a really good player he would have gone in the 4th or 5th round, easily. He might have gone in the 3rd round with a big senior year, invite to the Senior Bowl, and slightly better test numbers.

Coleman was a guy people thought may end up in the 4th or 5th round coming in to the season but he had a bad year and just okay test numbers. If he were just 6'3 or 6'2 he would not have been drafted and almost wasn't.

I try not to be a know it all but I would hope that over the years you notice I'm pretty close on NFL stock with players. You can't be close without watching tape, talking to coaches, NFL teams, etc.

Coleman measured in at exactly 6'3". His draft grade was 68.2 with is at the very high end of the draftable players scale and nearly at an eventual starter level.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Lott is a lock. Kadeem Wise, DJ Key and Wes Dothard have a shot, Wise being the most likely. Don't dismiss the possibility of Davis Tull Leaving early either. You swore up and down that Demetrius McCray was an absolute stud and he completely bombed out of the combine. I would guess they will take your recommendations with a grain of salt from here on out.

Nobody is a lock right now. It's too early to tell. Lott is your best guy but there is no way Wise, Key, and Dothard all get one. I was not that impressed with them. I have heard Tull may leave early but he better get stronger, bulk up, and have some more pass rush moves because teams will start to double team him. If he has another huge year then yes he should come out.

I said he was one of the best corners in FCS and never believed he would go higher than the 5th round. 5th-7th round picks are not studs. Stud FCS players are taken in the top 100 picks.

McCray did not bomb out of the combine. Where did you get that from? He was 6'1, 187 pounds, long arms, long wing span, ran 4.4 40s on hand held clocks, a 4.54 electronic 40, and had a 36-inch vertical jump. I said all along coming in to the season that McCray needed work but his physical tools alone would get him looks.

He got a combine invite, which I can guarantee you that most of the names you just mentioned will not get. Just getting a combine invite proves what I told you all along was that NFL teams would look at him and he would have a shot to get drafted. I never said he would be a stud in the NFL. I just said with his tools with the right coaching he has a chance to be good and would get drafted. If he runs a 4.4 at the pro day then you can pretty much lock down a 6'1 CB with 4.4 speed and average tape is getting drafted.

I'll bet you posting rights for a year that he goes higher than Coleman did. If he goes 242 or higher you don't post until after the combine next year and if he goes later I won't post until after the combine next year. My prediction is that he goes in the 6th round or early 7th round.

What do you say?

[smallcollegefbfan]

Coleman measured in at exactly 6'3". His draft grade was 68.2 with is at the very high end of the draftable players scale and nearly at an eventual starter level.

That was at the combine but he measured at like 6'3 3/8 or 6'3 1/2 at the pro day. If he were an inch shorter I doubt he gets drafted.

If teams saw him on the "high end" of draftable players then why was he barely drafted? That rating on NFL.com is done by someone who goes and looks at a couple draft websites and then judges the workout numbers and not done by the NFL teams themselves. That's just a media rating.

[chattownmocs]

Nobody is a lock right now. It's too early to tell. Lott is your best guy but there is no way Wise, Key, and Dothard all get one. I was not that impressed with them. I have heard Tull may leave early but he better get stronger, bulk up, and have some more pass rush moves because teams will start to double team him. If he has another huge year then yes he should come out.

I said he was one of the best corners in FCS and never believed he would go higher than the 5th round. 5th-7th round picks are not studs. Stud FCS players are taken in the top 100 picks.

McCray did not bomb out of the combine. Where did you get that from? He was 6'1, 187 pounds, long arms, long wing span, ran 4.4 40s on hand held clocks, a 4.54 electronic 40, and had a 36-inch vertical jump. I said all along coming in to the season that McCray needed work but his physical tools alone would get him looks.

He got a combine invite which I can guarantee you that most of the names you just mentioned will not get. Just getting a combine invite proves what I told you all along was that NFL teams would look at him and he would have a shot to get drafted. I never said he would be a stud in the NFL. I just said with his tools with the right coaching he has a chance to be good and would get drafted. If he runs a 4.4 at the pro day then you can pretty much lock down a 6'1 CB with 4.4 speed and average tape is getting drafted.

I'll bet you posting rights for a year that he goes higher than Coleman did. If he goes 242 or higher you don't post until after the combine next year and if he goes later I won't post until after the combine next year. What do you say?

What? He finished dead last or 2nd to last out of 32 guys in half of the drills. His agility was awful. I agree that all of those guys won't make it. There is a real shot at 3 though of Tull comes out. Honestly I really hope that you don't have as much input as you claim because you are so biased towards app state players.

[chattownmocs]

That was at the combine but he measured at like 6'3 3/8 or 6'3 1/2 at the pro day. If he were an inch shorter I doubt he gets drafted.

If teams saw him on the "high end" of draftable players then why was he barely drafted? That rating on NFL.com is done by someone who goes and looks at a couple draft websites and then judges the workout numbers and not done by the NFL teams themselves. That's just a media rating.

That's from someone that works for the NFL.

[smallcollegefbfan]

What? He finished dead last or 2nd to last out of 32 guys in half of the drills. His agility was awful. I agree that all of those guys won't make it. There is a real shot at 3 though of Tull comes out. Honestly I really hope that you don't have as much input as you claim because you are so biased towards app state players.

I'm not biased towards them. I am just telling you that McCray is viewed as a potential draft pick. He got a combine invite. Look if McCray was a stud and lock down corner...say he was as good as Alford....being 6'1, 187, with his length, and roughly 4.50 speed, he would be a 3rd or 4th round pick. He's going to be a 6th or 7th round pick in my opinion. Do I think he will make it for a long time? I'm not sure. I would say he lasts a year or two bouncing around, unless he gets in the right situation.

One thing to remember is that anything can happen. Coleman was very average at best as a senior but he could blossom into a quality #2 or starter or be out of the NFL in two years. It's all up to him mentally and where he takes it from there.

If you want to talk stud corners from FCS ask me about Webb and Alford. I have been hyping them to anyone who will listen. They are the best corners in FCS. Yes, I said they are the best. Williams of NDSU was the 3rd best this past year. He will be the best in 2013 but Webb and Alford were the two best on tape in 2012. Both are explosive, fast, and great ball skills. Webb is so good that nobody threw his way. People tested McCray because his ball skills and instincts weren't the best and you could beat him on short routes and double moves unlike Webb. Alford and Webb will both be top 100 picks as long as they don't get hurt in workouts between now and draft day.

And you didn't say anything in my bet on posting rights. McCray goes ahead of Coleman. Shake on it now and agree? You can't claim you won after the draft if he doesn't beat out Coleman on draft day. It's now or never. I think it would be a fun friendly wager and I'm sure AGS posters would love to see one or both of us not post for a year. LOL

[smallcollegefbfan]

That's from someone that works for the NFL.

Okay so "someone who works for the NFL" rated him as a high end draft pick. I, who work with NFL teams on an independent consulting basis and talk to GMs, directors, and the combine, projected him as a 7th round or PFA. He went 243rd overall late in the 7th round. For "someone who works in the NFL" they sure missed it big time on draft day.

Like I said, Coleman may end up being very good but you acted like he was going to go high in the draft and he blew that during the fall. With his projections coming from the combine entering the season he was in prime shape to get a Senior Bowl invite, go top 100-130, and have 10+ teams trying to work him out in the postseason. He went late in the 7th round, Shrine instead of Senior Bowl, and didn't have 10+ teams banging down the door for him. My whole point to you was that he did not do as well as he should have and you had him overrated in terms of draft projection. My job is to project the draft and give teams a rough idea of where a player may be valued on draft day. Based on what I'm asked to do if a player becomes a Pro Bowler for three years and I have him as a 6th round pick and he goes in the 6th round, I consider it a hit because I projected him right. If he sucks and goes in the 3rd round while I projected that a team would take him in the 3rd round, I hit again. It's about projecting the draft because anything can happen. There will always be a Rod Smith or Tom Brady out there and nobody is going to get it right all the time.

[chattownmocs]

I'm not biased towards them. I am just telling you that McCray is viewed as a potential draft pick. He got a combine invite. Look if McCray was a stud and lock down corner...say he was as good as Alford....being 6'1, 187, with his length, and roughly 4.50 speed, he would be a 3rd or 4th round pick. He's going to be a 6th or 7th round pick in my opinion. Do I think he will make it for a long time? I'm not sure. I would say he lasts a year or two bouncing around, unless he gets in the right situation.

One thing to remember is that anything can happen. Coleman was very average at best as a senior but he could blossom into a quality #2 or starter or be out of the NFL in two years. It's all up to him mentally and where he takes it from there.

If you want to talk stud corners from FCS ask me about Webb and Alford. I have been hyping them to anyone who will listen. They are the best corners in FCS. Yes, I said they are the best. Williams of NDSU was the 3rd best this past year. He will be the best in 2013 but Webb and Alford were the two best on tape in 2012. Both are explosive, fast, and great ball skills. Webb is so good that nobody threw his way. People tested McCray because his ball skills and instincts weren't the best and you could beat him on short routes and double moves unlike Webb. Alford and Webb will both be top 100 picks as long as they don't get hurt in workouts between now and draft day.

And you didn't say anything in my bet on posting rights. McCray goes ahead of Coleman. Shake on it now and agree? You can't claim you won after the draft if he doesn't beat out Coleman on draft day. It's now or never. I think it would be a fun friendly wager and I'm sure AGS posters would love to see one or both of us not post for a year. LOL

I don't know whether McCray is going to get drafted or not. I do know that he had an awful combine performance. If someone is willing to overlook that because of his size and vertical than he is their problem.

[chattownmocs]

Okay so "someone who works for the NFL" rated him as a high end draft pick. I, who work with NFL teams on an independent consulting basis and talk to GMs, directors, and the combine, projected him as a 7th round or PFA. He went 243rd overall late in the 7th round. For "someone who works in the NFL" they sure missed it big time on draft day.

Like I said, Coleman may end up being very good but you acted like he was going to go high in the draft and he blew that during the fall. With his projections coming from the combine entering the season he was in prime shape to get a Senior Bowl invite, go top 100-130, and have 10+ teams trying to work him out in the postseason. He went late in the 7th round, Shrine instead of Senior Bowl, and didn't have 10+ teams banging down the door for him. My whole point to you was that he did not do as well as he should have and you had him overrated in terms of draft projection. My job is to project the draft and give teams a rough idea of where a player may be valued on draft day. Based on what I'm asked to do if a player becomes a Pro Bowler for three years and I have him as a 6th round pick and he goes in the 6th round, I consider it a hit because I projected him right. If he sucks and goes in the 3rd round while I projected that a team would take him in the 3rd round, I hit again. It's about projecting the draft because anything can happen. There will always be a Rod Smith or Tom Brady out there and nobody is going to get it right all the time.

Hold on, you are projecting where players will go? I thought you were projecting where they SHOULD go? Also whether they should get a combine invite?

[smallcollegefbfan]

I don't know whether McCray is going to get drafted or not. I do know that he had an awful combine performance. If someone is willing to overlook that because of his size and vertical than he is their problem.

It was not horrible. It was average. He had a very good week at the NFLPA Game. He and Jakar Hamilton were the two best DBs there. He has the physical tools. If he has a good pro day he will get drafted. I think he does well at his pro day because App State players usually do. Remember when Joe Haden did bad at the combine and ran 4.4s at his pro day? It happens.

Tull is your best prospect. I'm not saying he will end up there but myself and scouts have him roughly in the 5th round as of right now. Depending on what he does this year he could have 3rd or 4th round projections entering 2014. I do think it would be a mistake for him to declare. Look how good Taiwan Jones was in FCS and he declared but has not done much in the NFL. FCS players need that year to mature physically. Lately we have seen a lot of FCS players declare and none of them have done anything in the NFL other than be fringe roster guys or practice squad players. Rogers and Kaufman are the two best shots to come out early in a while and I don't know if Kaufman can even be more than a late round type guy on draft day. He didn't blow away the combine but he didn't tank it, either.

Tull really needs to stay in school. I heard those rumors as well and that would be a mistake. He could be a Senior Bowl invite, combine invite, and top 125 pick if he stays in school. He really impressed me late in the year.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Hold on, you are projecting where players will go? I thought you were projecting where they SHOULD go? Also whether they should get a combine invite?

I try to project where I think they will go on draft day and whether they will be a guy teams want to see at the NFL Combine. There were a lot of area scouts who did not like McCray on tape. Said free agent on him. There were also some who said 5th round. When you have his tools you have to know he will get looks. Wise is a better corner than him right now but does not have the size and length so a lot of teams won't even consider him while they will look at McCray because he has upside and can be coached up. It's just how it is.

And regardless, when you have the tools McCray does he SHOULD be at the combine. He's the type of player that an as area scout I want my GM and head coach to evaluate up close and see if they can work with it.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Here is a prime example of a corner getting a strong look. Do you remember Cortez Allen? He gave up 3 TDs against App State, got benched, and even the combine dropped him from a 5th round projection to free agent because his season was so bad. He got a combine invite, did really well, and went 4th round. He is the nickel in Pittsburgh. Allen was not very good when the ball was in the air but looked great turning his hips, had the physical tools, could run, and was decent on special teams. Had he put up a monster senior year he would have been a 2nd round pick. Pittsburgh saw something they could develop. There are teams who feel the same way with McCray. They are very similar in size, length, and 40 speed.

[chattownmocs]

It was not horrible. It was average. He had a very good week at the NFLPA Game. He and Jakar Hamilton were the two best DBs there. He has the physical tools. If he has a good pro day he will get drafted. I think he does well at his pro day because App State players usually do. Remember when Joe Haden did bad at the combine and ran 4.4s at his pro day? It happens.

Tull is your best prospect. I'm not saying he will end up there but myself and scouts have him roughly in the 5th round as of right now. Depending on what he does this year he could have 3rd or 4th round projections entering 2014. I do think it would be a mistake for him to declare. Look how good Taiwan Jones was in FCS and he declared but has not done much in the NFL. FCS players need that year to mature physically. Lately we have seen a lot of FCS players declare and none of them have done anything in the NFL other than be fringe roster guys or practice squad players. Rogers and Kaufman are the two best shots to come out early in a while and I don't know if Kaufman can even be more than a late round type guy on draft day. He didn't blow away the combine but he didn't tank it, either.

Tull really needs to stay in school. I heard those rumors as well and that would be a mistake. He could be a Senior Bowl invite, combine invite, and top 125 pick if he stays in school. He really impressed me late in the year.

Dude, 31/32, 31/32, and 32/32 in the agility drills is pretty bad for a CB.

As far as Tull goes, I don't see him coming out because of his size. He needs to put on 20-30 pounds and see if he still has similar athleticism. He is an awesome athlete and could really be a tremendous pass rusher at any level if he can keep some of that.

[chattownmocs]

I try to project where I think they will go on draft day and whether they will be a guy teams want to see at the NFL Combine. There were a lot of area scouts who did not like McCray on tape. Said free agent on him. There were also some who said 5th round. When you have his tools you have to know he will get looks. Wise is a better corner than him right now but does not have the size and length so a lot of teams won't even consider him while they will look at McCray because he has upside and can be coached up. It's just how it is.

And regardless, when you have the tools McCray does he SHOULD be at the combine. He's the type of player that an as area scout I want my GM and head coach to evaluate up close and see if they can work with it.


Buster skrine didn't have much size either. Not saying Wise is that athletic but he can run.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Dude, 31/32, 31/32, and 32/32 in the agility drills is pretty bad for a CB.

As far as Tull goes, I don't see him coming out because of his size. He needs to put on 20-30 pounds and see if he still has similar athleticism. He is an awesome athlete and could really be a tremendous pass rusher at any level if he can keep some of that.

You are picking out three drills and honing in on them. You have to look at everything. He is not a very quick twitch guy. Nobody thought he would blaze in the short shuttle, 3-cone, or 60 yard shuttle.

If Tull fills out I could see him coming out but yes right now he isn't thick enough. Needs to put on weight. I would say if he were in this year's draft he would go late if he lit up the drills at the combine or pro day but still too young to say he is a guarantee. Needs at least one more year and two would be ideal.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Buster skrine didn't have much size either. Not saying Wise is that athletic but he can run.

Skrine could fly though and he was very quick. Had return skills as well.

[BEAR]

I still can't believe Grandy didn't get an invite. But he'll be on an NFL team come fall. Special teams or return man lighting up the biggies.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I still can't believe Grandy didn't get an invite. But he'll be on an NFL team come fall. Special teams or return man lighting up the biggies.

He got a couple votes but not enough. Most teams see him as a straight line route runner only but very good return skills and speed. He is thin and that is a major concern. If he could bulk up to 175-180 I think they would feel better about him making it. He can fly and he still may get drafted. He's a better return man than Scotty McGee and had a better senior year so you never know. I do think he's a better prospect than McGee by far, who the Jags drafted. Although, based on their previous drafts I think there are several small schoolers they took who would not be drafted by most. McGee was a reach and so was Pendleton from Ashland last year.

[BEAR]

He got a couple votes but not enough. Most teams see him as a straight line route runner only but very good return skills and speed. He is thin and that is a major concern. If he could bulk up to 175-180 I think they would feel better about him making it. He can fly and he still may get drafted. He's a better return man than Scotty McGee and had a better senior year so you never know. I do think he's a better prospect than McGee by far, who the Jags drafted. Although, based on their previous drafts I think there are several small schoolers they took who would not be drafted by most. McGee was a reach and so was Pendleton from Ashland last year.

Good insight on Grandy. I can't tell you how many kick returns or punt returns were called back or just one finger slip away from going all the way. His thin size and superfast speed makes him tough to catch but you're right about that weight.. xlolx

[seantaylor]

McKinnon will be a combine invite. His strength/speed numbers are going to be off the charts. Josh Rowe could be a guy that moves up the lists if he stays dedicated to the game.

[CID1990]

McKinnon will be a combine invite. His strength/speed numbers are going to be off the charts. Josh Rowe could be a guy that moves up the lists if he stays dedicated to the game.

Chattownmocs


Sent from the center of the universe.

[PhillyApp1]

I'm not biased towards them. I am just telling you that McCray is viewed as a potential draft pick. He got a combine invite. Look if McCray was a stud and lock down corner...say he was as good as Alford....being 6'1, 187, with his length, and roughly 4.50 speed, he would be a 3rd or 4th round pick. He's going to be a 6th or 7th round pick in my opinion. Do I think he will make it for a long time? I'm not sure. I would say he lasts a year or two bouncing around, unless he gets in the right situation.

One thing to remember is that anything can happen. Coleman was very average at best as a senior but he could blossom into a quality #2 or starter or be out of the NFL in two years. It's all up to him mentally and where he takes it from there.

If you want to talk stud corners from FCS ask me about Webb and Alford. I have been hyping them to anyone who will listen. They are the best corners in FCS. Yes, I said they are the best. Williams of NDSU was the 3rd best this past year. He will be the best in 2013 but Webb and Alford were the two best on tape in 2012. Both are explosive, fast, and great ball skills. Webb is so good that nobody threw his way. People tested McCray because his ball skills and instincts weren't the best and you could beat him on short routes and double moves unlike Webb. Alford and Webb will both be top 100 picks as long as they don't get hurt in workouts between now and draft day.

And you didn't say anything in my bet on posting rights. McCray goes ahead of Coleman. Shake on it now and agree? You can't claim you won after the draft if he doesn't beat out Coleman on draft day. It's now or never. I think it would be a fun friendly wager and I'm sure AGS posters would love to see one or both of us not post for a year. LOL

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, make sure Moc takes your friendly bet !! I am sure he is a nice person, but his view of the FCS football world is so OFF. Thank God he is not an App fan. ;-)

[smallcollegefbfan]

McKinnon will be a combine invite. His strength/speed numbers are going to be off the charts. Josh Rowe could be a guy that moves up the lists if he stays dedicated to the game.

It's too early to say someone will be for sure. There is no Aaron Mellette in the SoCon for 2014 where I say that the guy will definitely be there. Brian Quick and Aaron Mellette both had such high grades and great junior years that you knew there was no way they weren't going. With that said, I do think he will end up going.

[Saint3333]

2013 is the first year in a long time in which App will likely not have a combine invite/potential draft pick. Maybe one of the olinemen will surprise. Only 12 seniors (two who don't play), that is surprising to me.

[smallcollegefbfan]

2013 is the first year in a long time in which App will likely not have a combine invite/potential draft pick. Maybe one of the olinemen will surprise. Only 12 seniors (two who don't play), that is surprising to me.

Tony Washington is a possibility. And remember that Kilgore was not considered a legit prospect entering his senior year. You never know. App may not have a combine invite but there will be 1-3 in a camp.

[smallcollegefbfan]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, make sure Moc takes your friendly bet !! I am sure he is a nice person, but his view of the FCS football world is so OFF. Thank God he is not an App fan. ;-)

I figured there were a lot of you who would like to see that bet LOL.

[smallcollegefbfan]

On NFL Network they had the NFL Films guy and he had been watching all the players. He talked about the taller corners and even mentioned McCray with the others and said he is interested to see where they go. Said those taller corners who are 6'0 or bigger have more value than a 5'9 or 5'10 corner, even if the smaller corner is better right now. Just like I had been saying all along. It's why Cortez Allen was drafted and it's why I don't think Marcus Williams is the top FCS NFL CB prospect next year. Oh did I just say that? Yes, there is a bigger, taller, longer, faster corner next year whose tape is almost as good but I think he will be equal to or vault past Williams in 2013 because he is longer, faster, and has a lot more upside. With that said, Williams is 5'10 1/2 or 5'11 and will still be a good one.

[seantaylor]

Barring injury, McKinnon will be there as a running back. He's a better prospect than JJ.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Barring injury, McKinnon will be there as a running back. He's a better prospect than JJ.

We will see. A long way away. He will have a shot. I do like McKinnon. He's a good athlete.

[PaladinFan]

Furman did a nice pro day video for the Paladins trying out for scouts. I've never really seen an "insiders" view of the process. For those that are interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Yl1wyRvvx-0

[smallcollegefbfan]

Buster skrine didn't have much size either. Not saying Wise is that athletic but he can run.

Your favorite player McCray ran a 4.47 40, 11'0 broad jump, 40 1/2 VJ, 4.21 SS, and 8 bench reps at his pro day. At 6'1 1/8, 187 pounds that is going to get him drafted for sure now. While I think he played like a 6th-7th round pick based on film and when you consider measurables that workout could see him go higher. I've heard 4th-PFA from all the scouts I talked to. I'd project him 5th-6th round to sit in the middle but it would not shock me to see a team take him in the 4th or 5th round. He's better than Cortez Allen who went in the 4th round.

[seantaylor]

Your favorite player McCray ran a 4.47 40, 11'0 broad jump, 40 1/2 VJ, 4.21 SS, and 8 bench reps at his pro day. At 6'1 1/8, 187 pounds that is going to get him drafted for sure now. While I think he played like a 6th-7th round pick based on film and when you consider measurables that workout could see him go higher. I've heard 4th-PFA from all the scouts I talked to. I'd project him 5th-6th round to sit in the middle but it would not shock me to see a team take him in the 4th or 5th round. He's better than Cortez Allen who went in the 4th round.

So, call it a 4.58-.462 at the combine. The size is there, but that is below average speed for a corner. I'm not sure about the reps, but I would bank that is below average as well.

[smallcollegefbfan]

So, call it a 4.58-.462 at the combine. The size is there, but that is below average speed for a corner. I'm not sure about the reps, but I would bank that is below average as well.

He ran a 4.54 electronic time, with high 4.4 hand helds at the combine. Players typically run better on campus because they aren't as nervous as they have done it before. That 4.47 is legit. He plays like a 4.50 and it's close so I will take it. He's going to get drafted. I still think Wilcox goes higher for sure but McCray got himself drafted with his workout. He could go as high as the 4th or 5th. He's a better prospect than Cortez Allen and he went 4th round.

[seantaylor]

So, 4.54. Which is below average for corners. I was never impressed by this guy. For some reason, all Appy defensive players got overrated in the conference, due mainly to Chrissy Hatcher's reign. I thought Allen was a better player.

[smallcollegefbfan]

So, 4.54. Which is below average for corners. I was never impressed by this guy. For some reason, all Appy defensive players got overrated in the conference, due mainly to Chrissy Hatcher's reign. I thought Allen was a better player.

To be honest I thought McCray did not play as good as the season went on. He started out playing well but tapered off. I'm not saying he is a stud but there are some who have made it sound like the guy will not get a shot and he will. He has long arms, he's tall, he has good hips, and can run. Aaron Mellette had his way with him and so did some others over the last two years but he has tools. He's better than Cortez Allen, although Laron Scott was better than Cortez Allen and I believe Kadeem Wise and even Ryan Steed were better college players than Cortez Allen. I'll never forget being at that Citadel vs App game where Quick and Hillary burned Allen for 3 TDs. When he went 4th round I realized then that the NFL is still going to draft and give a shot to corners with elite measurables ,hips, and just general tools.

4.54 was electronic and you have to ignore those to make the pro days and combine apples to apples. He ran high 4.4s at the combine. NFL teams use hand times anyway so I never have understood why the NFL pushes the electronic times because that's not what the teams use.