Fears realized

[Saint3333]

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20130223/PC20/130229624

For anyone that is so surprised App and GSU fans want to make the move, this article confirms our fears of the on the field product at this level weakening. I was concerned about the additional FBS scholarships as a whole, but if they reduce power FCS conferences to NEC levels that is not a good thing for the subdivision.

Classical example of why I have been a proponent for FCS minimums. Time for three subdivisions in Div 1.

[UAalum72]

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20130223/PC20/130229624

For anyone that is so surprised App and GSU fans want to make the move, this article confirms our fears of the on the field product at this level weakening. I was concerned about the additional FBS scholarships as a whole, but if they reduce power FCS conferences to NEC levels that is not a good thing for the subdivision.

Classical example of why I have been a proponent for FCS minimums. Time for three subdivisions in Div 1.If the SoCon Commissionerwants to reduce the number of scholarships it gives, that's not the problem of leagues with fewer scholarships. Putting a minimum for other leagues is not going to help those schools who can't afford to give 63 without an FBS game, nor will it increase the number of FBS games.

[CID1990]

I'm not really concerned about competing with university-sponsored professional football teams.

Sure, it is fun to beat them, but there's more satisfaction in being able to compete with the peers you play each year.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Again, another spooky article generated from the flippant comments of one AD. The "vote" on this is not imminent nor is there a high expectation that it will be successful.

Any team who is looking for this as a reason to move up to FBS need only realize that they will quickly go from from a scenario of "haves" and "have not" to basically the same system only they will be the "have nots"

Good luck with that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Again, another spooky article generated from the flippant comments of one AD. The "vote" on this is not imminent nor is there a high expectation that it will be successful.

+1000 People are ready way too far into WIsconsin's fraidy-scaredness from nearly losing to UNI.

[slostang]

+1000 People are ready way too far into WIsconsin's fraidy-scaredness from nearly losing to UNI.

And Cal Poly!!! Could you imagine the level of Wisonsin's fraidy-scaredness if Cal Poly had a kicker in 2008. I think there is also some Michigan fraidy-scaredness from the App. State loss and some Minnesota fraidy-scaredness from Minnesota's two losses to NDSU in the Big 10's deciding to stop scheduling FCS teams.

[Bisonoline]

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20130223/PC20/130229624

For anyone that is so surprised App and GSU fans want to make the move, this article confirms our fears of the on the field product at this level weakening. I was concerned about the additional FBS scholarships as a whole, but if they reduce power FCS conferences to NEC levels that is not a good thing for the subdivision.

Classical example of why I have been a proponent for FCS minimums. Time for three subdivisions in Div 1.

""“The only reason to have 63 scholarships is to be eligible to play FBS teams and count toward their bowl eligibility,” he said. “If those games go away, the entire subdivision would have to look at if 63 is the right number. Could we save expenses by reducing the number of scholarships? It would seem to me that’s one thing that would have to be looked at.”



To say that 63 schollies is the only reason to play FBS is ridiculous.

[swaghook]

The FCS should be looking at increasing the scholarship cap to compete with the FBS teams. Sure it would cost more but if the FCS teams showed that they have a great product and also the better system with a play off they might be able to increase revenues through media contracts and better following from fans.

[Saint3333]

+1000 People are ready way too far into WIsconsin's fraidy-scaredness from nearly losing to UNI.

Five years from now we will know, I'm afraid the people with power will be right and you will be wrong.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Why would the SEC stop scheduling FCS games?

1) They make a ton of money for each home game and the payouts are cheaper than non-BCS FBS teams.
2) The SEC is way better than the B10 and almost always takes care of business against the FCS teams.
3) They get to count the wins towards bowl eligibility.
4) Being the best conference in college football they don't have to schedule too many big non-conference games.

I just don't see the SEC eliminating FCS games. I could maybe see the B10 doing it, which would make a lot of the less football-centric B10 schools very unhappy.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The biggest counter to the B10's argument is Alabama's OOC conference schedule this season. They scheduled no-bo-dy and ended up in the Crystal Ball game. And is anyone seriously going to argue that the SEC champ doesn't, or won't, belong because they've scheduled Western Carolina over Western Michigan?

[walliver]

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20130223/PC20/130229624

For anyone that is so surprised App and GSU fans want to make the move, this article confirms our fears of the on the field product at this level weakening. I was concerned about the additional FBS scholarships as a whole, but if they reduce power FCS conferences to NEC levels that is not a good thing for the subdivision.

Classical example of why I have been a proponent for FCS minimums. Time for three subdivisions in Div 1.

If you actually read the whole article, you will see that ASU and GSU moving is not really supported. If Clemson, with a home attendance much greater than ASU and GSU combined and with much much larger media revenue, is concerned about competing in the new free-for-all college football landscape, do you really think anybody in the SunBelt will have a chance?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Five years from now we will know, I'm afraid the people with power will be right and you will be wrong.

We're 3 months past the Sun Belt invitation press conference. Pardon us if we are leery of predictions coming form Appy.

[Saint3333]

I have never made any prediction about a move to the Belt.

If you are choosing to ignore the slippery slope the FCS has been on, please don't act surprised when your FBS games are gone and if cost containment football is pushed to the next level in the next few years.

[Saint3333]

If you actually read the whole article, you will see that ASU and GSU moving is not really supported. If Clemson, with a home attendance much greater than ASU and GSU combined and with much much larger media revenue, is concerned about competing in the new free-for-all college football landscape, do you really think anybody in the SunBelt will have a chance?

That is why there is a need for three levels of football in Div 1. There are three levels of resources universities are willing to apply to football. App is clearly in the second tier and if we aren't able to move we may be forced to the third tier.

[CFBfan]

The biggest counter to the B10's argument is Alabama's OOC conference schedule this season. They scheduled no-bo-dy and ended up in the Crystal Ball game. And is anyone seriously going to argue that the SEC champ doesn't, or won't, belong because they've scheduled Western Carolina over Western Michigan?

and let's not forget LSU hosting Towson this past season.....didn't hurt LSU at all

[DFW HOYA]

Classical example of why I have been a proponent for FCS minimums. Time for three subdivisions in Div 1.

There already are three:

The BCS/big money playoff conferences
The no-name bowl conferences
The no-money (I-AA) playoff conferences

[frozennorth]

If you actually read the whole article, you will see that ASU and GSU moving is not really supported. If Clemson, with a home attendance much greater than ASU and GSU combined and with much much larger media revenue, is concerned about competing in the new free-for-all college football landscape, do you really think anybody in the SunBelt will have a chance?

i don't think anyone is afraid of it, they are just rightfully concerned about escalating spending on a zero-sum game. Still going to be recruiting the exact same players, just spending more money to do it and being a way bigger pain in the *** while they do it.

[Saint3333]

There already are three:

The BCS/big money playoff conferences
The no-name bowl conferences
The no-money (I-AA) playoff conferences

I disagree, there are a couple dozen FCS programs that should paired with non BCS FBS programs in a true 1-AA division with a playoff.

[DoWe]

That is why there is a need for three levels of football in Div 1. There are three levels of resources universities are willing to apply to football. App is clearly in the second tier and if we aren't able to move we may be forced to the third tier.

Or they could use this as an opportunity to rename it what it is, D1, D2, D3. That way fewer FCS fans would become enraged when BCS coaches, ADs and media types refer to current FCS as D2. Problem solved. 3 subdivisions of D1 is preposterously convoluted.

[CID1990]

I disagree, there are a couple dozen FCS programs that should paired with non BCS FBS programs in a TRUE 1-AA division with a playoff.

Haven't even moved up yet and already b1tching.



Sent from the center of the universe.

[slycat]

We're 3 months past the Sun Belt invitation press conference. Pardon us if we are leery of predictions coming form Appy.

Invites for FCS schools to the Sun Belt won't come until probably May. No hurry, just have to get it done before the end of June so teams can begin transition.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Invites for FCS schools to the Sun Belt won't come until probably May. No hurry, just have to get it done before the end of June so teams can begin transition.

I can't wait, then all the FBS wannabes can go bother someone else.

[mountaineer in Cane Land]

do worry NoDak 4 ever, we want to leave just as bad as you want us gone

[darell1976]

So why would the Big 10 quit scheduling FCS teams when they have no problem doing that in basketball? The SOS has to be the same factor whether its a bowl game or a spot in the dance. So the Gophers or Badgers could schedule NDSU or UND in basketball but not in football because of the SOS of football. Most teams in the Big 10 won't have a shot at the playoff spot in the FBS anyways. I think its more embarrassment of losing to FCS teams like App St, NDSU, and South Dakota than worrying about SOS.

[GlassOnion]

I can't wait, then all the FBS wannabes can go bother someone else.

Dont worry, the FCS wannabes will be gone soon, and you Division 1 wannabes can have the sandbox all to yourselves.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So why would the Big 10 quit scheduling FCS teams when they have no problem doing that in basketball? The SOS has to be the same factor whether its a bowl game or a spot in the dance. So the Gophers or Badgers could schedule NDSU or UND in basketball but not in football because of the SOS of football. Most teams in the Big 10 won't have a shot at the playoff spot in the FBS anyways. I think its more embarrassment of losing to FCS teams like App St, NDSU, and South Dakota than worrying about SOS.

It has been well documented that this is the ranting of one AD on a local radio station and not the consensus opinion of the B1G ADs as a whole. All this hand wringing is silly.

[FargoBison]

So why would the Big 10 quit scheduling FCS teams when they have no problem doing that in basketball? The SOS has to be the same factor whether its a bowl game or a spot in the dance. So the Gophers or Badgers could schedule NDSU or UND in basketball but not in football because of the SOS of football. Most teams in the Big 10 won't have a shot at the playoff spot in the FBS anyways. I think its more embarrassment of losing to FCS teams like App St, NDSU, and South Dakota than worrying about SOS.

Darell 68 teams qualify for the big dance, and 4 qualify for the FBS playoff. Having a limited playoff field greatly increases the importance of SOS.

[darell1976]

Darell 68 teams qualify for the big dance, and 4 qualify for the FBS playoff. Having a limited playoff field greatly increases the importance of SOS.

There are 31 AQ teams to the dance leaving 37 teams to fight it out. I would think SOS is equally important in both sports if not more in basketball with more bubble teams than in football. MAC teams, and other conferences like that will never see the playoffs it will be 4 teams among the big conferences and playing an FCS team with their conference schedule will NOT hurt their chance at the playoffs. Now if an Ohio or ULM played an FCS team then their SOS would be shot.

[JSUBison]

Invites for FCS schools to the Sun Belt won't come until probably May. No hurry, just have to get it done before the end of June so teams can begin transition.

I think it would be funny if the Sunbelt would extend a middle finger to all of the power conferences, and invite every single FCS team en masse to join the Sun Belt.

[FargoBison]

There are 31 AQ teams to the dance leaving 37 teams to fight it out. I would think SOS is equally important in both sports if not more in basketball with more bubble teams than in football. MAC teams, and other conferences like that will never see the playoffs it will be 4 teams among the big conferences and playing an FCS team with their conference schedule will NOT hurt their chance at the playoffs. Now if an Ohio or ULM played an FCS team then their SOS would be shot.

It is no way close to equal.

The regular season is somewhat important in college basketball for the power programs, it is everything in college football.

[darell1976]

It is no way close to equal.

The regular season is somewhat important in college basketball for the power programs, it is everything in college football.

Too bad this 4 team playoffs is going to cause more controversy as you may have 4 teams at 1 loss then the #5 team has a perfect record. Its total crap and not playing the FCS isn't going to solve anything.

[Hammerhead]

Just make schools who can't fund a minimum # of scholarship for football to move down to division II or drop football entirely.

[darell1976]

Just make schools who can't fund a minimum # of scholarship for football to move down to division II.

They should have the rule like hockey or wrestling where you don't have to be a full DI member to play a DI sport. Teams like Valpo can stay DI for basketball (and whatnot) but move football to DII or DIII.

[Bisonwinagn]

Too bad this 4 team playoffs is going to cause more controversy as you may have 4 teams at 1 loss then the #5 team has a perfect record. Its total crap and not playing the FCS isn't going to solve anything.

That's why it will go to a 8 team playoff shortly and likely a new league of 32 or 64 teams. Also the Big10 will never schedule teams from major conferences if they go to a 9 or 10 game conference schedule.

[hebmskebm]

They should have the rule like hockey or wrestling where you don't have to be a full DI member to play a DI sport. Teams like Valpo can stay DI for basketball (and whatnot) but move football to DII or DIII.

That's the way it used to be. The actual DII and DIII schools hated it because they thought the schools that were otherwise DI had an unfair recruiting/funding/facilities advantage that came from being DI in everything else.

[darell1976]

That's the way it used to be. The actual DII and DIII schools hated it because they thought the schools that were otherwise DI had an unfair recruiting/funding/facilities advantage that came from being DI in everything else.

I think it should go back to that. Teams like Nebraska-Omaha had to drop football and wrestling just to join DI basketball, where they should have stayed in DII but join DI basketball.

[Saint3333]

They should have the rule like hockey or wrestling where you don't have to be a full DI member to play a DI sport. Teams like Valpo can stay DI for basketball (and whatnot) but move football to DII or DIII.

Agree 100%.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Too bad this 4 team playoffs is going to cause more controversy as you may have 4 teams at 1 loss then the #5 team has a perfect record. Its total crap and not playing the FCS isn't going to solve anything.

The Big 10 and SEC will lose no sleep over it as the undefeated 5th team will never be amongst their ranks. They'll be a Boise State, TCU, Nevada, UConn, Virginia Tech. More than likely that 1-team school making it in over the undefeated team will be an 11-1 LSU or the like, the second team in the SEC.

Which is the other reason why their thoughts of exclusing FCS games is so abjectly ridiculous. It truly doesn't matter. They're in anyway.

Which is why this whole thing is simply window dressing.

Which is also why there won't be an 8-team playoff.

[ngineer]

I'm not really concerned about competing with university-sponsored professional football teams.

Sure, it is fun to beat them, but there's more satisfaction in being able to compete with the peers you play each year.

+1

[FargoBison]

Some FCS schools have peers on both sides of the fence though....

[Skjellyfetti]

They scheduled no-bo-dy and ended up in the Crystal Ball game.

Well, they did play Michigan OOC... one of the better teams in the Big 10.

Not their fault most OOC BCS opponents suck relative to SEC play. They try to schedule quality programs... just turns out they're awful (even if they finish toward the top of their "power" conference).

[ASUMountaineer]

I can't wait, then all the FBS wannabes can go bother someone else.

Reminds me of a few FCS wannabes a few years back. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. That's a popular saying in your part of Canada, eh?

[ASUMountaineer]

There are 31 AQ teams to the dance leaving 37 teams to fight it out. I would think SOS is equally important in both sports if not more in basketball with more bubble teams than in football. MAC teams, and other conferences like that will never see the playoffs it will be 4 teams among the big conferences and playing an FCS team with their conference schedule will NOT hurt their chance at the playoffs. Now if an Ohio or ULM played an FCS team then their SOS would be shot.

Don't forget that basketball teams also get to play 30+ games a year before selection Sunday vs. 12 in football. A lot more opportunity to balance out your SoS in basketball. This is a losing argument for you darell.

[darell1976]

Don't forget that basketball teams also get to play 30+ games a year before selection Sunday vs. 12 in football. A lot more opportunity to balance out your SoS in basketball. This is a losing argument for you darell.

Yeah I know, but now watch the Big 10 will ban playing DII teams in basketball or even lower DI teams.

[ASUMountaineer]

Yeah I know, but now watch the Big 10 will ban playing DII teams in basketball or even lower DI teams.

Maybe. Oh well.

[Apphole]

Reminds me of a few FCS wannabes a few years back. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. That's a popular saying in your part of Canada, eh?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRt3B-5M89rNJahOwzbg_AaL5q2rTKk-tHd4ijj2rvoqpTcl_9nA

[Sandlapper Spike]

Which is also why there won't be an 8-team playoff.

Oh, I think there will be an eight-team playoff, and sooner rather than later, once they see how much money they will make with the four-team playoff. They won't be able to resist going from three playoff matchups to seven.

[bluehenbillk]

Oh, I think there will be an eight-team playoff, and sooner rather than later, once they see how much money they will make with the four-team playoff. They won't be able to resist going from three playoff matchups to seven.

2027 is the earliest they can go to an 8-team playoff, they're locked in for the first 12 years.

[fc97]

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20130223/PC20/130229624

For anyone that is so surprised App and GSU fans want to make the move, this article confirms our fears of the on the field product at this level weakening. I was concerned about the additional FBS scholarships as a whole, but if they reduce power FCS conferences to NEC levels that is not a good thing for the subdivision.

Classical example of why I have been a proponent for FCS minimums. Time for three subdivisions in Div 1.

unfortunately, is this untrue at all. if there are no longer minimums for the playoffs and there are all these roadblocks for non app/gsu type schools to be on the big floor, money is better spent on places like basketball and football or even ice hockey. title ix already makes it difficult to field 63 scholarship teams.

however, i think this is leading to the inevitable anyway. an early 80s break of the top 5-6 conferences and a reshuffling of the rest. you guys will make the jump, but i think its only a matter of time before the top of fcs is merged back with the bottom of fbs anyway, especially if schools with money to field 63 scholarship teams or more want to continue to do so.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

unfortunately, is this untrue at all. if there are no longer minimums for the playoffs and there are all these roadblocks for non app/gsu type schools to be on the big floor, money is better spent on places like basketball and football or even ice hockey. title ix already makes it difficult to field 63 scholarship teams.

however, i think this is leading to the inevitable anyway. an early 80s break of the top 5-6 conferences and a reshuffling of the rest. you guys will make the jump, but i think its only a matter of time before the top of fcs is merged back with the bottom of fbs anyway, especially if schools with money to field 63 scholarship teams or more want to continue to do so.

The BCS conferences are going to break away free of the NCAA soon anyway. They are getting organized already.

[Sandlapper Spike]

2027 is the earliest they can go to an 8-team playoff, they're locked in for the first 12 years.

They're locked in until they decide not to be locked in. I just think the money is going to be too ridiculous for all concerned.

[fc97]

The BCS conferences are going to break away free of the NCAA soon anyway. They are getting organized already.

exactly, and at that point, fcs and fbs will mostly be merged again. the rest of fbs wont like it, but, no one will care because those are the schools that no longer matter overall.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The BCS conferences are going to break away free of the NCAA soon anyway. They are getting organized already.

Why would they break free? They already basically get all the money for football, and if they shove the NCAA out of the way it will look even more like minor league NFL football than it already does. As for basketball, getting rid of the Northwestern State's and Winthrop's dilutes their brand, and they know it.

Also, who really gets more money in an 8-team playoff? With a 4 team playoff, you essentially split a pretty huge pot 4 or 5 ways. Add it to 8, and now the Boise State's get involved and you have to give any non-AQ (essentially) conference a bigger share. The big 4 will never want to devolve more power to the smaller conferences. I'm surprised people still don't see this.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

exactly, and at that point, fcs and fbs will mostly be merged again. the rest of fbs wont like it, but, no one will care because those are the schools that no longer matter overall.

It has been an ad hoc relationship at best anyway. They don't play for a NCAA championship. Every other NCAA trophy looks like the one the FCS champion gets, including the basketball championship

http://media.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/photo/2012/04/10790485-large.jpg http://www.footballfoundation.org/DesktopModules/DigArticle/MediaHandler.ashx?portalid=7&moduleid=2396&mediaid=6134&width=630&height=354

[CID1990]

Why would they break free?

The NCAA is the only barrier to paying athletes.



Sent from the center of the universe.

[fc97]

Why would they break free? They already basically get all the money for football, and if they shove the NCAA out of the way it will look even more like minor league NFL football than it already does. As for basketball, getting rid of the Northwestern State's and Winthrop's dilutes their brand, and they know it.

Also, who really gets more money in an 8-team playoff? With a 4 team playoff, you essentially split a pretty huge pot 4 or 5 ways. Add it to 8, and now the Boise State's get involved and you have to give any non-AQ (essentially) conference a bigger share. The big 4 will never want to devolve more power to the smaller conferences. I'm surprised people still don't see this.

they'll break free for football only. they need the other conferences for the other sports, especially basketball. one of the biggest reasons march madness is so popular is that fans live for the upsets and teams like davidson, gonzaga, george mason and vcu. those games and those upsets drive ratings like crazy.

[Hammerhead]

Is there a buy-out clause in that contract? LOL.


2027 is the earliest they can go to an 8-team playoff, they're locked in for the first 12 years.

[walliver]

The NCAA is the only barrier to paying athletes.



Sent from the center of the universe.

Paying athletes is inevitable, but will destroy college football as we know it at the "big time" level.
For FCS schools, I suspect a small stipend (spending money) will be offered, but the SEC will bust a few budgets buying the best teams money can buy. CUSA, BE, MAC, SBC, half of the ACC, half of the B12, half of the B10, and half of the PAC-10 will not be able to compete, but will be too proud to step down a notch. Ultimately, government will get involved, and things will get really screwed up.

Those schools which are happy in FCS will get by the way we always have. The lesser FBS teams and unhappy FCS teams will then need to do some soul searching.

[Apphole]

It has been an ad hoc relationship at best anyway. They don't play for a NCAA championship. Every other NCAA trophy looks like the one the FCS champion gets, including the basketball championship

http://media.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/photo/2012/04/10790485-large.jpg http://www.footballfoundation.org/DesktopModules/DigArticle/MediaHandler.ashx?portalid=7&moduleid=2396&mediaid=6134&width=630&height=354

Just when I thought Anthony Davis was the ugliest dude on the face of the earth, you post a picture of the NDSU coach right next to him...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Just when I thought Anthony Davis was the ugliest dude on the face of the earth, you post a picture of the NDSU coach right next to him...

I'm not sure how good looking guys in their mid 50's are supposed to look, but his wife is pretty hot.

[darell1976]

I'm not sure how good looking guys in their mid 50's are supposed to look, but his wife is pretty hot.

Agree!! Bohl picked a hottie.

[AppMan]

I can't wait, then all the FBS wannabes can go bother someone else.

I find it a tad ironic you bash ASU for wanting to move up when your school made the move to Division One less than ten years ago. Did the folks on the D-II board gave you as much grief as you like to dish out to us?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I find it a tad ironic you bash ASU for wanting to move up when your school made the move to Division One less than ten years ago. Did the folks on the D-II board gave you as much grief as you like to dish out to us?

Well the folks up north sure did. DII was actually going through a scholarship reduction. Nothing like that is happening now. This is all just a made up story. FCS will be just fine with or without App State. It will just be a lot quieter without.

[Saint3333]

A lot is happening you're just choosing not to realize it.

[ASUMountaineer]

Well the folks up north sure did. DII was actually going through a scholarship reduction. Nothing like that is happening now. This is all just a made up story. FCS will be just fine with or without App State. It will just be a lot quieter without.

Right, so what's good for the goose is good for the gander--except in this case. Duly noted.

[CID1990]

A lot is happening you're just choosing not to realize it.

No, we're choosing not to give a ****.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[ASUMountaineer]

No, we're choosing not to give a ****.


Sent from the center of the universe.

You should probably speak for yourself. There's quite a few El Cid guys here that very clearly give a ****.

[Apphole]

Well the folks up north sure did. DII was actually going through a scholarship reduction. Nothing like that is happening now. This is all just a made up story. FCS will be just fine with or without App State. It will just be a lot quieter without.

Your camp sure is taking our place as the most loud-mouthed, entitled, arrogant group in the FCS (despite having an inferior resume), so the place will be plenty loud after we're gone. What a crowded overlap period we're having!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The problem with this whole argument is that I understand how you guys need to move up for the school to grow. For those schools, like mine, that are already at the point to which you aspire, we like being in FCS.

This whole thread is just ****ting on FCS because you want to move up.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

No, we're choosing not to give a ****.


Sent from the center of the universe.

If I were a Citadel fan I wouldn't care either. If FBS money games become a thing of the past there will be a movement to reduce scholarships in FCS. The number of schools who will want this far outnumber those who don't. I fully expect to see FCS in the neighborhood of 50 in the not so distant future. It will essentially bring the larger public schools back to the high academic private and smaller public school pack and create unparalleled parity. It will make for a less competitive brand of football, but at least everyone will be equally bad.

[TheRevSFA]

Your camp sure is taking our place as the most loud-mouthed, entitled, arrogant group in the FCS (despite having an inferior resume), so the place will be plenty loud after we're gone. What a crowded overlap period we're having!

2 championships in first 3 years of playoff eligibility is pretty damned good.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

High-level FCS is dying a slow, painful death - painful to the handful of schools who are actually serious about their football programs. Just from Ga Southern's perspective, I can point to Middle Tenn, Western Ky, Florida Atlantic, Florida Int'l, Troy and even South Florida and Central Florida as schools who can use "FBS" as a recruiting trump in our territory. There are kids within a 60 mile radius of Statesboro who have signed with distant MAC and MW schools as well. No doubt this happens with many FCS schools.

Recruiting is only a small part of the "problem" with the FCS/I-AA brand in the East. Small population-state schools in the Northeast, privates, and W&M don't face the same marketing difficulties as Directional/Regional U's. Dakota's and Montana's probably wouldn't increase their market share or alumni donation revenue by moving to FBS. Below are schools who would benefit by moving to FBS regardless of their readiness or desire:

Coastal Carolina, Liberty

Delaware, James Madison, Towson

Youngstown, N. Iowa, Mizz St (possibly Ill St, Ind St, S Ill)

E Ill, E Ky, Jax St,

App St., Ga Southern, Chattanooga

Sam Houston, SFA, McNeese, Cen Ark

[Apphole]

For those schools, like mine, that are already at the point to which you aspire, we like being in FCS.

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

So we should aspire to have less accolades, a smaller fan base and inferior facilites?

[AmsterBison]

Your camp sure is taking our place as the most loud-mouthed, entitled, arrogant group in the FCS (despite having an inferior resume), so the place will be plenty loud after we're gone. What a crowded overlap period we're having!

Well, you can put me in that group if you want, but I'll miss App State and Georgia Southern if they move to FBS. After all, Georgia Southern was the program I wanted NDSU wanted to emulate (them and Montana.)

IMO, Georgia Southern and Appalachian State will do pretty well from the beginning if they go to the Sun Belt. The only question is "Is it worth the expense?" and one thing NDSU fans should know better than most people is that the ONLY people who can answer that are the ones who care the most about the school involved. I might not agree with you guys about the state of the FCS, but you guys have to do what you think is best.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Yes, a top masters university is far superior to a comprehensive doctoral research university with 100 million dollar endowment

[ASUMountaineer]

The problem with this whole argument is that I understand how you guys need to move up for the school to grow. For those schools, like mine, that are already at the point to which you aspire, we like being in FCS.

This whole thread is just ****ting on FCS because you want to move up.

Yes, it's only the App fans that are vocal and arrogant. I'll take that over being hypocritical. xthumbsupx

[AmsterBison]

Yes, a top masters university is far superior to a comprehensive doctoral research university with 100 million dollar endowment

A $100 million endowment is tiny. The >$100 million in research every year is not. What are you trying to accomplish? Do you think that you can talk GSU and App State out of moving to FBS?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

A $100 million endowment is tiny. The >$100 million in research every year is not. What are you trying to accomplish? Do you think that you can talk GSU and App State out of moving to FBS?

I'm trying to answer this thread. This thread is merely to **** on the rest of us who like where we are just because they want to move up. It isn't the move that bugs me, it's the protracted crowing about "being over this division" and saying that we are suckers for staying.

100 million endowment is 50% larger than App State's. Apphole is just a **** starter but I'm not going to let that just hang out there.

[cbarrier90]

A $100 million endowment is tiny. The >$100 million in research every year is not. What are you trying to accomplish? Do you think that you can talk GSU and App State out of moving to FBS?

It continues to amaze me how schools who "aspire" to stay here care so much about ASU and GSU making the move. Why?

[Apphole]

For those schools, like mine, that are already at the point to which you aspire, we like being in FCS. .



Yes, a top masters university is far superior to a comprehensive doctoral research university with 100 million dollar endowment

So you think App moving to the FBS is a ploy to reclassify as a research institution?

Oh...wait.... you got self conscious about your small dick and had to come up with something in which NDSU had an edge against Appalachian. Just shut up already. Your smack championship is a sham. You suck.

[PaladinFan]

High-level FCS is dying a slow, painful death - painful to the handful of schools who are actually serious about their football programs. Just from Ga Southern's perspective, I can point to Middle Tenn, Western Ky, Florida Atlantic, Florida Int'l, Troy and even South Florida and Central Florida as schools who can use "FBS" as a recruiting trump in our territory. There are kids within a 60 mile radius of Statesboro who have signed with distant MAC and MW schools as well. No doubt this happens with many FCS schools.

Recruiting is only a small part of the "problem" with the FCS/I-AA brand in the East. Small population-state schools in the Northeast, privates, and W&M don't face the same marketing difficulties as Directional/Regional U's. Dakota's and Montana's probably wouldn't increase their market share or alumni donation revenue by moving to FBS. Below are schools who would benefit by moving to FBS regardless of their readiness or desire:

Coastal Carolina, Liberty

Delaware, James Madison, Towson

Youngstown, N. Iowa, Mizz St (possibly Ill St, Ind St, S Ill)

E Ill, E Ky, Jax St,

App St., Ga Southern, Chattanooga

Sam Houston, SFA, McNeese, Cen Ark

It's all relative. GSU lost some kids to MAC schools. Furman signed a kid from Tampa that had offers from numerous MAC schools.

It is nonsense to point to a small sample and say "look, not being FBS is hurting recruiting." Particularly coming from SoCon folks, where many of the greatest players in league history were either woefully under-recruited or walkons.

This is freakonomics. You start flooding the FBS with have nots, and the haves are going to go elsewhere. You then find yourself in exactly the same position you formerly were in - the second level. It really doesn't matter what you call yourself or what group you choose to hang out with. You are what you are.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

It continues to amaze me how schools who "aspire" to stay here care so much about ASU and GSU making the move. Why?

The OP



For anyone that is so surprised App and GSU fans want to make the move, this article confirms our fears of the on the field product at this level weakening. I was concerned about the additional FBS scholarships as a whole, but if they reduce power FCS conferences to NEC levels that is not a good thing for the subdivision.


Nobody wants to see the move happen more than me. Not because I don't want the competition but so that this whole thing can just end. I love being in FCS.

[Apphole]

100 million endowment is 50% larger than App State's. Apphole is just a **** starter but I'm not going to let that just hang out there.

Me? All I did was mention how hypocritical it is to say that the ASU fanbase leaving will make it "quieter around here." Your fanbase is literally the only one on AGS that has no room to talk regarding a collective arrogance/high volume of posting, even about App State. Why don't you voice your frustration with the entire group of posters that are making a fool out of you, not just me.

[TheRevSFA]

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

So we should aspire to have less accolades, a smaller fan base and inferior facilites?

Who says your fanbase will increase? Have ULM, ULL, stAte, MTSU, Georgia State acquired more fans since they went to the Belt?

KBS isn't inferior and will be viewed as one of the better sun belt stadiums..

However, maybe this will help your basketball team out some..

[cbarrier90]

The OP



Nobody wants to see the move happen more than me. Not because I don't want the competition but so that this whole thing can just end. I love being in FCS.

Yet when we bring up the fact that you guys just moved up from D-II, it's a completely different situation?

There will always be schools that desire to move up from the FCS level. That won't change if ASU and GSU leave.

[TheRevSFA]

It's all relative. GSU lost some kids to MAC schools. Furman signed a kid from Tampa that had offers from numerous MAC schools.

It is nonsense to point to a small sample and say "look, not being FBS is hurting recruiting." Particularly coming from SoCon folks, where many of the greatest players in league history were either woefully under-recruited or walkons.

This is freakonomics. You start flooding the FBS with have nots, and the haves are going to go elsewhere. You then find yourself in exactly the same position you formerly were in - the second level. It really doesn't matter what you call yourself or what group you choose to hang out with. You are what you are.

Agree with this. In 5-10 years when the BCS conferences break off even further and keep the lower FBS teams out..what are the lower FBS teams going to do? Play in meaningless bowls? Probably not..they'll set up another division, another NC game..and hey...the upper tier FCS teams will now become..part of this new division.

While the move now is vertical..it becomes horizonal when this happens.

[Apphole]

Who says your fanbase will increase? Have ULM, ULL, stAte, MTSU, Georgia State acquired more fans since they went to the Belt?

KBS isn't inferior and will be viewed as one of the better sun belt stadiums..

However, maybe this will help your basketball team out some..

Although I think we will have an increase in fanship, especially at the onset, that wasn't what I was saying in that post.

He said his school was already at a level to which Appalachian was aspiring. I scoffed at the delusional statement, and pointed out that a move to mirror NDSU's football program would be a huge step down in most major categories.

[TheRevSFA]

Although I think we will have an increase in fanship, especially at the onset, that wasn't what I was saying in that post.

He said his school was already at a level to which Appalachian was aspiring. I scoffed at the delusional statement, and pointed out that a move to mirror MDSU would be a huge step down in most major categories of a football program.

Gotcha.

I disagree with you..I don't think you'll have an increase in fanship. You might get an increase in enrollment..but the layman casual non affiliated fan probably won't be rushing out to buy the black and gold.

That's just my opinion

[TheRevSFA]

Or let me put it to you this way.

Would you, if you were not an ASU alumni, buy a UNC-Charlotte shirt because they started football and are FBS, and look at becoming a fan?

[Apphole]

Gotcha.

I disagree with you..I don't think you'll have an increase in fanship. You might get an increase in enrollment..but the layman casual non affiliated fan probably won't be rushing out to buy the black and gold.

That's just my opinion

I think our attendance against UL-Monroe ect won't be much different than a SoCon game (I'd preit 30-35,000), but a home game against ECU, Wake or even Georgia Southern when we're at that level will pack the place and we could hit 40k (if the new stadium will fit that many. still no word on how many seats will be added. You've seen the render. She's huge.)

[Apphole]

Or let me put it to you this way.

Would you, if you were not an ASU alumni, buy a UNC-Charlotte shirt because they started football and are FBS, and look at becoming a fan?

Hell no. Neither school will get much in the way of non-alumni support. But Appalachian actually offers a memorable college experience for students, so we don't have a hard time getting most alums back to support the school.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm trying to answer this thread. This thread is merely to **** on the rest of us who like where we are just because they want to move up. It isn't the move that bugs me, it's the protracted crowing about "being over this division" and saying that we are suckers for staying.

100 million endowment is 50% larger than App State's. Apphole is just a **** starter but I'm not going to let that just hang out there.

Yeah, you're fighting the good fight.What NDSU did is no different than what App State and GSU are doing now. Get over it.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Although I think we will have an increase in fanship, especially at the onset, that wasn't what I was saying in that post.

He said his school was already at a level to which Appalachian was aspiring. I scoffed at the delusional statement, and pointed out that a move to mirror NDSU's football program would be a huge step down in most major categories.

Football is all you have at this point. When you jump into the shallow end of the FBS pool, what will make you stand out? Sounds like a great move to me. Enjoy Tuesday night lights.

[ASUMountaineer]

The OP



Nobody wants to see the move happen more than me. Not because I don't want the competition but so that this whole thing can just end. I love being in FCS.

I am sure many App State fans agree with this. However, we're unclear as to why you're so concerned with App State and GSU's decision to potentially move to FBS.

[TheRevSFA]

Hell no. Neither school will get much in the way of non-alumni support. But Appalachian actually offers a memorable college experience for students, so we don't have a hard time getting most alums back to support the school.

You will get them back, then when App finishes below .500 in FBS play they probably won't stick around.

Look at UNT. They moved up..had attendance and lost it..built a brand new stadium and still cannot fill it.

Moving to FBS will be beneficial for enrollment, but then again, it also depends on what else your school offers..but in terms of non affiliated fanbase, there's not any growth there.

FYI I got a text yesterday saying it's App State, Georgia South, and JMU to the Sun Belt (JMU as closest school to App) however the source didn't do much digging.

Tulsa to Big East, WKU to CUSA..frees up the spots. Just thought I'd share..though it may already be knowledge. The person said by March 15th but I honestly doubt that happens.

[ASUMountaineer]

Agree with this. In 5-10 years when the BCS conferences break off even further and keep the lower FBS teams out..what are the lower FBS teams going to do? Play in meaningless bowls? Probably not..they'll set up another division, another NC game..and hey...the upper tier FCS teams will now become..part of this new division.

While the move now is vertical..it becomes horizonal when this happens.

1) that is not a guarantee
2) because it is not a guarantee, some schools have decided it is in their best interests to not take a "wait-and-see" approach
3) I don't see what the big deal is for fans of other schools

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I am sure many App State fans agree with this. However, we're unclear as to why you're so concerned with App State and GSU's decision to potentially move to FBS.

I'm just a little tired of all the threads talking about how crappy FCS is to justify the move. If NDSU were to move to FBS as it stands right now, I'd be pretty pissed. I don't think there's anything to gain.

[TheRevSFA]

1) that is not a guarantee
2) because it is not a guarantee, some schools have decided it is in their best interests to not take a "wait-and-see" approach
3) I don't see what the big deal is for fans of other schools

I think it's great you guys are going, but don't thumb your nose at the FCS, because in 5 years..you'll be reunited with those teams, in the same second tier division to the BCS.

As I said..these are my opinions and my thoughts on the future. I could be way wrong and if I am, I'll admit it in 5-10 years when it doesn't happen

[ASUMountaineer]

Football is all you have at this point. When you jump into the shallow end of the FBS pool, what will make you stand out? Sounds like a great move to me. Enjoy Tuesday night lights.

Who is belittling what now? Why are you concerned?

We get it, you take issue with the exact same thing NDSU did. As I said, duly noted.

[TheRevSFA]

Who is belittling what now? Why are you concerned?

We get it, you take issue with the exact same thing NDSU did. As I said, duly noted.

You never did pick a new tag thing for your profile.

[AmsterBison]

Me? All I did was mention how hypocritical it is to say that the ASU fanbase leaving will make it "quieter around here." Your fanbase is literally the only one on AGS that has no room to talk regarding a collective arrogance/high volume of posting, even about App State. Why don't you voice your frustration with the entire group of posters that are making a fool out of you, not just me.

Holy crap, man, I was obviously asking NoDak 4 Ever what the heck he was trying to accomplish and questioning why anybody would brag about a tiny endowment. Then you come along and rip me for it.

I think that the FCS will be poorer for losing App State and GSU, but ripping on them for making the move and predicting their doom serves no purpose - it's just sour grapes and, yeah, it makes the people doing it look pretty stupid. For your part, you might want to work on reading comprehension.

[WileECoyote06]

I give FCS five years before the # of cash strapped schools/conferences outnumber the other schools and force the scholarship number down to 45-50.

I just said this two weeks ago, and now lookie here. I remember the comment being criticized.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm just a little tired of all the threads talking about how crappy FCS is to justify the move. If NDSU were to move to FBS as it stands right now, I'd be pretty pissed. I don't think there's anything to gain.

Cool deal. As for App State, it has been decided by the PTB (and people a lot more knowledgeable than me) that there is something to gain. You'll notice, though you didn't say it, that not all App State fans belittle the FCS. I have never referred to moving to FBS as a move "up," simply as a move. Each school has to determine where it best fits. Therefore, no division/subdivision for a particular school is "up" or "down," it's simply different for each school.

While I understand that posters here get tired of the "FCS is dying" talk, if they didn't care enough to post constantly on those threads they would probably die a quick death. As it is, this thread is 10 pages long and growing.

[ASUMountaineer]

1) that is not a guarantee
2) because it is not a guarantee, some schools have decided it is in their best interests to not take a "wait-and-see" approach
3) I don't see what the big deal is for fans of other schools

I think it's great you guys are going, but don't thumb your nose at the FCS, because in 5 years..you'll be reunited with those teams, in the same second tier division to the BCS.

As I said..these are my opinions and my thoughts on the future. I could be way wrong and if I am, I'll admit it in 5-10 years when it doesn't happen

You'll also notice, Rev, that I have never "thumbed my nose" at the FCS. I have never referred to a move to the FBS as a move "up," because to me it's about each school finding where it best fits. If it's in FBS, that just where it fits, it's not up or down. The same way with the FCS. App State's administration and BOT has been convinced that Appalachian needs to seek FBS affiliation. They have more knowledge than I do and believe now is the time to go. I don't take that as a knock to the FCS.

[Apphole]

Holy crap, man, I was obviously asking NoDak 4 Ever what the heck he was trying to accomplish and questioning why anybody would brag about a tiny endowment. Then you come along and rip me for it.

I think that the FCS will be poorer for losing App State and GSU, but ripping on them for making the move and predicting their doom serves no purpose - it's just sour grapes and, yeah, it makes the people doing it look pretty stupid. For your part, you might want to work on reading comprehension.

That was in response to NoDa4ever, I even quoted him.

[ASUMountaineer]

You never did pick a new tag thing for your profile.

That is true. There's a few from the thread I'm considering. My own was "The Sherman to Citdog's Atlanta," but I didn't think it was very good. I need to get on that though!

[TheRevSFA]

[QUOTE=TheRevSFA;1942509]

You'll also notice, Rev, that I have never "thumbed my nose" at the FCS. I have never referred to a move to the FBS as a move "up," because to me it's about each school finding where it best fits. If it's in FBS, that just where it fits, it's not up or down. The same way with the FCS. App State's administration and BOT has been convinced that Appalachian needs to seek FBS affiliation. They have more knowledge than I do and believe now is the time to go. I don't take that as a knock to the FCS.

Fair enough and I didn't mean you specifically, however some fans have..which is expected.

[TheRevSFA]

That is true. There's a few from the thread I'm considering. My own was "The Sherman to Citdog's Atlanta," but I didn't think it was very good. I need to get on that though!

Actually I kinda like that.

[AmsterBison]

That was in response to NoDa4ever, I even quoted him.

Well, hell, I'll work on my reading comprehension then. The irony!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think our attendance against UL-Monroe ect won't be much different than a SoCon game (I'd preit 30-35,000), but a home game against ECU, Wake or even Georgia Southern when we're at that level will pack the place and we could hit 40k (if the new stadium will fit that many. still no word on how many seats will be added. You've seen the render. She's huge.)

Yes, after all, when I think of UL Monroe, I think traveling fan base.

http://www.ulmathletics.com/fls/19000/stats/football/2012/ulm12.htm

Scoring Summary (Final)
2012 ULM Football
ULM vs FIU (Nov 24, 2012 at Miami, Fla.)

ULM (8-4,6-2) vs. FIU (3-9,2-6)

Date: Nov 24, 2012 • Site: Miami, Fla. • Stadium: FIU Stadium • Attendance: 12115

[Apphole]

Yes, after all, when I think of UL Monroe, I think traveling fan base.

http://www.ulmathletics.com/fls/19000/stats/football/2012/ulm12.htm

Scoring Summary (Final)
2012 ULM Football
ULM vs FIU (Nov 24, 2012 at Miami, Fla.)

ULM (8-4,6-2) vs. FIU (3-9,2-6)

Date: Nov 24, 2012 • Site: Miami, Fla. • Stadium: FIU Stadium • Attendance: 12115

If you've ever been to the Rock, you'd know that our high attendance has nothing to do with away team fans.

[CID1990]

You should probably speak for yourself. There's quite a few El Cid guys here that very clearly give a ****.

About what happens to FCS-FBS?

No, they don't.

We will continue to play our rivals like Furman and Wofford and VMI, and we'll have just as much fun with it as we always have.

Come to think of it, without the money games (which I have always been opposed to as an irreplaceable revenue source) we will go back to some even older rivalries, like Newberry and W&M and Richmond.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[grayghost06]

That is true. There's a few from the thread I'm considering. My own was "The Sherman to Citdog's Atlanta," but I didn't think it was very good. I need to get on that though!

Yeah, that one will probably ruffle the bellhop's feathers. I made a similar comment once and he about had an aneurysm.

[ASUMountaineer]

[QUOTE=ASUMountaineer;1942517]

Fair enough and I didn't mean you specifically, however some fans have..which is expected.

Yup. It happens every time a team changes divisions/subdivisions (except in FAMU's case).

[ASUMountaineer]

About what happens to FCS-FBS?

No, they don't.

We will continue to play our rivals like Furman and Wofford and VMI, and we'll have just as much fun with it as we always have.

Come to think of it, without the money games (which I have always been opposed to as an irreplaceable revenue source) we will go back to some even older rivalries, like Newberry and W&M and Richmond.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Their posts sure could have fooled me. xnodx

[ASUMountaineer]

Yeah, that one will probably ruffle the bellhop's feathers. I made a similar comment once and he about had an aneurysm.

xlolx

[CID1990]

Their posts sure could have fooled me. xnodx

I'm not sure what posts you are referring to.

The ones where they say that they really care what we will do without guarantee games, or that ASU and GSU are more valuable to them in the SoCon as opposed to Furman or Wofford?


Sent from the center of the universe.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm not sure what posts you are referring to.

The ones where they say that they really care what we will do without guarantee games, or that ASU and GSU are more valuable to them in the SoCon as opposed to Furman or Wofford?


Sent from the center of the universe.

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Every ASU/GSU/FBS-related thread, out comes a few El Cid posters. Apparently, they give a **** about anything related to FBS, App State, and GSU. Otherwise, they would just skip over the thread, no?

[CID1990]

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Every ASU/GSU/FBS-related thread, out comes a few El Cid posters. Apparently, they give a **** about anything related to FBS, App State, and GSU. Otherwise, they would just skip over the thread, no?

No, Citdog is the one who gives you guys hell, and he does that to everybody.

Plus, you should not confuse being fed up with a few ASU and one notable GSU fan bitching and whining about the SoCon for "caring". Really, you might have a more sympathetic audience on the Sun Belt boards.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[ASUMountaineer]

No, Citdog is the one who gives you guys hell, and he does that to everybody.

Plus, you should not confuse being fed up with a few ASU and one notable GSU fan bitching and whining about the SoCon for "caring". Really, you might have a more sympathetic audience on the Sun Belt boards.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Not looking for sympathy, just making an observation. One that, apparently, has struck a nerve with you--though, I know you don't care. I've been here long enough to know the ways of Citdog...we both give each other crap, that's not news.

Plus, you should not confuse me with the App State fans that you're accusing of bitching and whining. I don't get on here and denigrate the SoCon and the FCS. That's not my MO.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'll repeat this one more time. The OP article basically took the comment from Barry Alvarez, and ONLY Barry Alvarez to draw this big line to FCS dropping scholarships.

Alvarez says B1G isn't going to play FCS games (unconfirmed), therefore all FBS is going to stop playing FCS (not true), therefore FCS schools won't have money (see where we're going here?), therefore scholly limits will be revisited diluting competition in FCS making the jump to FBS the only way to maintain a successful football team.

None of this is true. THAT is my beef.

[CID1990]

Not looking for sympathy, just making an observation. One that, apparently, has struck a nerve with you--though, I know you don't care. I've been here long enough to know the ways of Citdog...we both give each other crap, that's not news.

Plus, you should not confuse me with the App State fans that you're accusing of bitching and whining. I don't get on here and denigrate the SoCon and the FCS. That's not my MO.

You haven't struck a nerve, you just gave us more credit for "caring" than we do. We didnt care when Marshall left, and the sky didnt fall.

As for the whining and complaining, Im not accusing you of that, but there IS a cabal of posters who do, and they outnumber us El Cid posters who "care".


Sent from the center of the universe.

[ASUMountaineer]

You haven't struck a nerve, you just gave us more credit for "caring" than we do. We didnt care when Marshall left, and the sky didnt fall.

As for the whining and complaining, Im not accusing you of that, but there IS a cabal of posters who do, and they outnumber us El Cid posters who "care".


Sent from the center of the universe.

Cool.

You're last part, I agree with.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'll repeat this one more time. The OP article basically took the comment from Barry Alvarez, and ONLY Barry Alvarez to draw this big line to FCS dropping scholarships.

Alvarez says B1G isn't going to play FCS games (unconfirmed), therefore all FBS is going to stop playing FCS (not true), therefore FCS schools won't have money (see where we're going here?), therefore scholly limits will be revisited diluting competition in FCS making the jump to FBS the only way to maintain a successful football team.

None of this is true. THAT is my beef.

Wow, you're really bent out of shape over someone being worried about the FCS reducing scholarships. Note that he said, "if" they reduce scholarships that it would be bad for the FCS. So, your beef is only with one guy's (OP) opinion? Really? Seems you have a bigger beef than that.

Just remember, App State and GSU are only looking to do the same thing that NDSU did. xthumbsupx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Wow, you're really bent out of shape over someone being worried about the FCS reducing scholarships. So, your beef is only with one guy's (OP) opinion? Really? Seems you have a bigger beef than that.

Just remember, App State and GSU are only looking to do the same thing that NDSU did. xthumbsupx

A message board thread is made up of a post and responses to that post. Fancy that!

[ASUMountaineer]

A message board thread is made up of a post and responses to that post. Fancy that!

You're the one that specifically referred to the OP. Fancy that!

Just remember, App State and GSU are only looking to do the same thing that NDSU did. xthumbsupx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You're the one that specifically referred to the OP. Fancy that!

Just remember, App State and GSU are only looking to do the same thing that NDSU did. xthumbsupx

You keep saying that, and it still doesn't matter. I do not care who moves where, I love this division and would not want to move into FBS. The idea that FCS is anything like DII is pure fiction, however.

[SpiritCymbal]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/11.30.2012.Obama_Fiscal_Cliff_Ostrich.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yM-uMTk7bUg/T5XCq3wr5VI/AAAAAAAAAec/83iU5UZ67j4/s1600/optimism.jpg

[ASUMountaineer]

You keep saying that, and it still doesn't matter. I do not care who moves where, I love this division and would not want to move into FBS. The idea that FCS is anything like DII is pure fiction, however.

Who said that FCS is anything like D-II? The concern from the OP and others is that it may eventually become like D-II. Did you miss that, or choose to ignore it?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Who said that FCS is anything like D-II? The concern from the OP and others is that it may eventually become like D-II. Did you miss that, or choose to ignore it?

No, but you cling to that scenario and completely dismiss the BCS breakaway scenario (which is significantly more plausible).

[ASUMountaineer]

No, but you cling to that scenario and completely dismiss the BCS breakaway scenario (which is significantly more plausible).

I don't cling to anything. I have made no prediction at all in this thread, just calling you out. Both scenarios are possible and as I told Rev (which you must have missed), our admin has made the decision that a move to the FBS is in App State's best interest. I am sure they are more aware than any of us as to what possible scenarios are likely in the coming decade. I'll trust their judgment, as they have actual data and information to go on.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't cling to anything. I have made no prediction at all in this thread, just calling you out. Both scenarios are possible and as I told Rev (which you must have missed), our admin has made the decision that a move to the FBS is in App State's best interest.

Interesting. And this was said when.....?

[Skjellyfetti]

Interesting. And this was said when.....?


The 10-member feasibility committee convened on Jan. 18 and after seven months of objective analysis, recommended on Aug. 22 that Appalachian seek membership in an athletics conference that sponsors football in the NCAA Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS). The ASU Board of Trustees approved the recommendation on Sept. 23.

The formal report includes complete data and analysis from the seven-month study, including an executive summary of the committee's procedures and findings, a facilities assessment provided by Collegiate Consulting and a proposed FBS budget for the ASU athletics department.

http://www.goasu.com/pdf8/805466.pdf?SPSID=104441&SPID=12805&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=21500

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This is only to address some of the moronic "FCS is dying, the sky is falling",chicken little clan.

Do what you can to stop being a dumbass and selecting certain pieces of information to fit your argument in that regard.

Last report was that FCS ticket sales, and revenue were up by a greater percentage than FBS schools across the board.

If your school wants to spend the extra money for the neglible benefit you see then more power to ya but your program is more likely to die off than FCS is.

"Please tell me more about how everyone is going to suffer great consequences because Barry Alvarez doesn't want to schedule FCS and how it's gonna collapse everything!"
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/25011412.jpg

[Skjellyfetti]

Last report was that FCS ticket sales, and revenue were up by a greater percentage than FBS schools across the board.

I could believe that FCS ticket sales are up by a greater percentage than FBS (since FCS has a much lower average attendance... a small increase will be a larger %).

But, not sure I can believe overall FCS revenue is increasing at a greater rate than FBS... considering FBS television contracts -- especially for BCS conferences -- are going through the roof... and are almost non-existent at the FCS level. Is the revenue in this statistic solely ticket sale revenue or all revenue? Merchandising, television, donations, etc.?

[Skjellyfetti]

your program is more likely to die off than FCS is.

Well. It's pointless to argue long term future scenarios... but, I completely disagree.

I think it is much more likely that there isn't an FCS subdivision in 20+ years than it is that Appalachian will no longer have a football program in 20+ years.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Well. It's pointless to argue long term future scenarios... but, I completely disagree.

I think it is much more likely that there isn't an FCS subdivision in 20+ years than it is that Appalachian will no longer have a football program in 20+ years.
The name may change again but the subdivision isn't dying and it's not likely that App's program is dying either way but it is more likely App's program goes away than the subdivision.

Previous question the report was based on ticket sales and ticket revenue. It doesn't bother if you don't believe it.

[Saint3333]

I'll repeat this one more time. The OP article basically took the comment from Barry Alvarez, and ONLY Barry Alvarez to draw this big line to FCS dropping scholarships.

Alvarez says B1G isn't going to play FCS games (unconfirmed), therefore all FBS is going to stop playing FCS (not true), therefore FCS schools won't have money (see where we're going here?), therefore scholly limits will be revisited diluting competition in FCS making the jump to FBS the only way to maintain a successful football team.

None of this is true. THAT is my beef.

Wrong the post stated that a Commish of an FCS power conference would consider reducing scholarships. That is my beef...

[GlassOnion]

Last report was that FCS ticket sales, and revenue were up by a greater percentage than FBS schools across the board.



I'd like to see those numbers without the schools that are leaving included.


Thats the #1, #4, #7, #21 programs in attendance, 2 already leaving, 2 about to leave.
#3's name is being discussed by an FBS conference on 3/9, as well as #5.
#11 and #13 have already announced their intent to leave the FCS.

[GlassOnion]

I've looked it up. Without App, ODU, GSU and Ga St included in the attendance, the yearly attendance drops to about 1998 levels.

[SpiritCymbal]

Wrong the post stated that a Commish of an FCS power conference would consider reducing scholarships. That is my beef...

I can't believe people haven't picked that up. I wonder if they're choosing to ignore it or if it's just a reading comprehension problem.

[GlassOnion]

I can't believe people haven't picked that up. I wonder if they're choosing to ignore it or if it's just a reading comprehension problem.

Smells about right.

[Saint3333]

Why would a conference commish of arguably the top two conferences at this level even suggest it? I swear sometimes I question what the SoCon leaders are thinking. This is right up there with the decision to stop paying for a TV package.

[GlassOnion]

If a majority of schools in the Socon were for cutting what turned out to be our only real media outlet, to save money, what else may they be willing to cut?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'd like to see those numbers without the schools that are leaving included.


Thats the #1, #4, #7, #21 programs in attendance, 2 already leaving, 2 about to leave.
#3's name is being discussed by an FBS conference on 3/9, as well as #5.
#11 and #13 have already announced their intent to leave the FCS.

So what? Go do the math if you want to see what it does. bet it doesn't make a huge difference and FCS will still be shown to not be dying as some of the circle jerk chicken little crowd keeps saying.

edit, ok it takes it back to 1998 levels you say, good enough by me cuz it wasn't dying in 1998 as far as I remember.

[Skjellyfetti]

edit, ok it takes it back to 1998 levels you say, good enough by me cuz it wasn't dying in 1998 as far as I remember.

Well, you were the one touting the growth % of FCS attendance.

And, now you're shrugging your shoulders at attendance figures dropping to where they were at 15 years ago?

xconfusedx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Well, you were the one touting the growth % of FCS attendance.

And, now you're shrugging your shoulders at attendance figures dropping to where they were at 15 years ago?

xconfusedx

What? The growth is there tiger and it goes completely against the "FCS is dying" clowncar that some of you are cruising around in. If you completely take out those few teams and the number drops, which it will for a period,, and that number goes back to 1998 type attendance when it wasn't dying then how is it now dying? Yes I'm shrugging my shoulders because it's an idiot that argues that it's dying and the reason teams need to jump.

You want to use that sort of information bias in your argument go ahead but I ain't going along with ya on it.

Adios, good luck, it won't matter to the division in a couple years at all just like it didn't when Nevada, Boise, Idaho (which was as big in IAA as the other two), Marshall, Troy State, etc.

[Skjellyfetti]

If John Iamarino is able to see long term issues better than some posters around here... y'all are blind.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If John Iamarino is able to see long term issues better than some posters around here... y'all are blind.

So you don't normally trust his perspective I take it? But you do on this one?

Got it.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I said "FCS is dying" and it would be more accurate to say FCS is slipping to 3rd Tier status. We've actually had 3 Tiers since the BCS was born and this next phase is a further separation. I see our move to the Sun Belt as an attempt to stay in the 2nd Tier.

[walliver]

There is a looming crisis in higher education which many college administrators are ignoring. There are too many students paying too much money to attend rapidly growing colleges and universities accumulating way too much student loan debt financed by a government that is running out of money, and they are all competing for too few jobs.

Every team in the SoCon (and all but about 6 teams in all of D-I) is subsidized by college revenue or student fees. At some point every college administrator will be called to task to justify every expenditure in the college budget. College football in 10 years at ALL levels will be very different than it is now. No-one knows yet what form that will take, but I would not be surprised at all if FCS offers less than 63 and bottom level FBS offers less than 85.

[AppMan]

So you don't normally trust his perspective I take it? But you do on this one?

Got it.

If Iamarino is admitting there's a problem, it must be really bad.

[PaladinFan]

There is a looming crisis in higher education which many college administrators are ignoring. There are too many students paying too much money to attend rapidly growing colleges and universities accumulating way too much student loan debt financed by a government that is running out of money, and they are all competing for too few jobs.

Every team in the SoCon (and all but about 6 teams in all of D-I) is subsidized by college revenue or student fees. At some point every college administrator will be called to task to justify every expenditure in the college budget. College football in 10 years at ALL levels will be very different than it is now. No-one knows yet what form that will take, but I would not be surprised at all if FCS offers less than 63 and bottom level FBS offers less than 85.

Precisely. This is not about the conferences "vision" or "thinking big." This is about running a railroad.

Again, this is not a problem unique to the SoCon. This is a problem ingrained in virtually every college football conference in the country. It is ludicrous to argue that this problem would not manifest itself in an FBS conference. Of course it will.

[AppMan]

There is a looming crisis in higher education which many college administrators are ignoring. There are too many students paying too much money to attend rapidly growing colleges and universities accumulating way too much student loan debt financed by a government that is running out of money, and they are all competing for too few jobs.

Every team in the SoCon (and all but about 6 teams in all of D-I) is subsidized by college revenue or student fees. At some point every college administrator will be called to task to justify every expenditure in the college budget. College football in 10 years at ALL levels will be very different than it is now. No-one knows yet what form that will take, but I would not be surprised at all if FCS offers less than 63 and bottom level FBS offers less than 85.

NC's new Republican Governor laid down the law to our state universities saying he would propose legislation to overhaul the way higher education is funded in North Carolina by putting the emphasis on job creation not liberal arts. "I think some of the educational elite have taken over our education where we are offering courses that have no chance of getting people jobs." He used gender studies courses at UNC-Chapel Hill as an example. McCrory said, "If you want to take gender studies that's fine, go to a private school and take it. But I don't want to subsidize that if that's not going to get someone a job." I think every aspect of funding to NC's public universities is going to come under scrutiny, even athletics.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

There is a looming crisis in higher education which many college administrators are ignoring. There are too many students paying too much money to attend rapidly growing colleges and universities accumulating way too much student loan debt financed by a government that is running out of money, and they are all competing for too few jobs.

Every team in the SoCon (and all but about 6 teams in all of D-I) is subsidized by college revenue or student fees. At some point every college administrator will be called to task to justify every expenditure in the college budget. College football in 10 years at ALL levels will be very different than it is now. No-one knows yet what form that will take, but I would not be surprised at all if FCS offers less than 63 and bottom level FBS offers less than 85.

Some programs are subsidized by fees more than others. As for academics, State money isn't distributed equally either. Here is the breakdown of the Regents budget in Georgia:

UGA - $1.165 Billion (18%) 34,677 enrollment (11%)
Ga Tech - $1.16 Billion (18%) 21,150 enrollment (7%)
Ga State - $686 Million (11%) 32,131 enrollment (10%)
Ga Health Sciences University (MCG) $644.5 Million (10%) 2,956 enrollment (<1%)
Ga Southern - $292.8 Million (4%) 20,315 enrollment (6%)

If Ga southern just got the same percentage as enrollment, we're due another $145 Million. Our Board of Regents is dominated by UGA Alumni and while we're gaining more graduate programs and share of the budget, it's still a brawl to get a dime. Our living alumni are young as is our University status (20 years) and football has attracted more attention and donors than ever. We actually need a high profile to make the whole school better. This is the difference between Privates, Small-Population State U's, and Directional U's.

Furman, Wofford, The Citadel, Samford, and Elon are NOT peer institutions to Ga Southern, App State, Chattanooga, or Western Carolina.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

NC's new Republican Governor laid down the law to our state universities saying he would propose legislation to overhaul the way higher education is funded in North Carolina by putting the emphasis on job creation not liberal arts. "I think some of the educational elite have taken over our education where we are offering courses that have no chance of getting people jobs." He used gender studies courses at UNC-Chapel Hill as an example. McCrory said, "If you want to take gender studies that's fine, go to a private school and take it. But I don't want to subsidize that if that's not going to get someone a job." I think every aspect of funding to NC's public universities is going to come under scrutiny, even athletics.

That is stunningly stupid.

[Saint3333]

You don't have to agree with it and I could understand why, but from a business perspective it makes sense. Should banks give mortage loans to people that will not be able to repay the debt. It is a similar concept.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You don't have to agree with it and I could understand why, but from a business perspective it makes sense. Should banks give mortage loans to people that will not be able to repay the debt. It is a similar concept.

This is a subject better suited to the lounge but there is no correlation between college major and unemployment.

It isn't the college graduates that are driving unemployment. In fact, the more advanced degree you have, the lower rate of unemployment.

[fc97]

This is a subject better suited to the lounge but there is no correlation between college major and unemployment.

It isn't the college graduates that are driving unemployment. In fact, the more advanced degree you have, the lower rate of unemployment.

there is and there isnt. but if you look at people who get jobs in their major field of study and look at the return on investment for the state you see what he's saying. look at the reason colleges and universities were created in the first place. they were purely tools to provide cost based job training for state residents. the private schools added a new twist to it. sports were clubs. but now, a college education is the new high school diploma. and kids are taking things that have no chance at landing them a career in what they're doing. gender studies is a prime example of this, an EASY example.

if government wants to cut costs and make better cost decisions, either tuition goes up to cover the cost of everything, taxes go up to pay for it or things get cut. this is just the way things work.

just because the statement is not popular doesn't mean its untrue. its like romney's 47% comment. it was highly unpopular, but the very statement he said was spot on.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

there is and there isnt. but if you look at people who get jobs in their major field of study and look at the return on investment for the state you see what he's saying. look at the reason colleges and universities were created in the first place. they were purely tools to provide cost based job training for state residents. the private schools added a new twist to it. sports were clubs. but now, a college education is the new high school diploma. and kids are taking things that have no chance at landing them a career in what they're doing. gender studies is a prime example of this, an EASY example.

if government wants to cut costs and make better cost decisions, either tuition goes up to cover the cost of everything, taxes go up to pay for it or things get cut. this is just the way things work.

just because the statement is not popular doesn't mean its untrue. its like romney's 47% comment. it was highly unpopular, but the very statement he said was spot on.

You're right, it is just like Romney's 47% comment. However, it's untrue because it's untrue. I'm not going to dump on a FCSD thread any more.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

NC's new Republican Governor laid down the law to our state universities saying he would propose legislation to overhaul the way higher education is funded in North Carolina by putting the emphasis on job creation not liberal arts. "I think some of the educational elite have taken over our education where we are offering courses that have no chance of getting people jobs." He used gender studies courses at UNC-Chapel Hill as an example. McCrory said, "If you want to take gender studies that's fine, go to a private school and take it. But I don't want to subsidize that if that's not going to get someone a job." I think every aspect of funding to NC's public universities is going to come under scrutiny, even athletics.

So the problem is Republican governors ruining higher education. Makes sense.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

there is and there isnt. but if you look at people who get jobs in their major field of study and look at the return on investment for the state you see what he's saying.

There's your problem right there. Doing an MBA, ROI analysis on education. Most of these same pinheads saying this now are the same morons who were probably trying to steer people out of graphic design degrees saying there's no money in it.

[WH49er]

NC's new Republican Governor laid down the law to our state universities saying he would propose legislation to overhaul the way higher education is funded in North Carolina by putting the emphasis on job creation not liberal arts. "I think some of the educational elite have taken over our education where we are offering courses that have no chance of getting people jobs." He used gender studies courses at UNC-Chapel Hill as an example. McCrory said, "If you want to take gender studies that's fine, go to a private school and take it. But I don't want to subsidize that if that's not going to get someone a job."



Even more of a reason to like the guy. On the other hand, I have degrees in Accounting & Finance so if the masses want to continue to study 19th century women's lit that just means more opportunity for me.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Even more of a reason to like the guy. On the other hand, I have degrees in Accounting & Finance so if the masses want to continue to study 19th century women's lit that just means more opportunity for me.

Actually, it doesn't because what he's saying is patently incorrect.

Can we please move this to the lounge? Ursus hates this kind of ****.

[TheRevSFA]

Yeah my degree is in Geography and I have a swanky job in business....

I guess studying maps is useless.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Yeah my degree is in Geography and I have a swanky job in business....

I guess studying maps is useless.

Same here. Speech Communication degree and I work in IT. Guess I should have learned welding or something else

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Actually, it doesn't because what he's saying is patently incorrect.

Can we please move [this part of the discussion] to the lounge? Ursus hates this kind of ****.

For once, we can agree

[GlassOnion]

What? The growth is there tiger and it goes completely against the "FCS is dying" clowncar that some of you are cruising around in. If you completely take out those few teams and the number drops, which it will for a period,, and that number goes back to 1998 type attendance when it wasn't dying then how is it now dying? Yes I'm shrugging my shoulders because it's an idiot that argues that it's dying and the reason teams need to jump.

You want to use that sort of information bias in your argument go ahead but I ain't going along with ya on it.

Adios, good luck, it won't matter to the division in a couple years at all just like it didn't when Nevada, Boise, Idaho (which was as big in IAA as the other two), Marshall, Troy State, etc.

Where is the growth if it is currently the same it was 15 or more years ago? And its actually lower than I previously thought. The FCS attendance has been virtually stagnant from its inception, all you have to do is look at the numbers. 1994 was the previous high, take out App, GSU,GSU and ODU, todays numbers are much less than 1994's, include those schools, and its only marginally better.

All while costs have skyrocketed. Fuel, scholarships, travel, building, housing, staff, equipment, medical, all cost drastically more.

And viewership has remained the same, while enrollment is up massively.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

What? The growth is there tiger and it goes completely against the "FCS is dying" clowncar that some of you are cruising around in. If you completely take out those few teams and the number drops, which it will for a period,, and that number goes back to 1998 type attendance when it wasn't dying then how is it now dying? Yes I'm shrugging my shoulders because it's an idiot that argues that it's dying and the reason teams need to jump.

You want to use that sort of information bias in your argument go ahead but I ain't going along with ya on it.

Adios, good luck, it won't matter to the division in a couple years at all just like it didn't when Nevada, Boise, Idaho (which was as big in IAA as the other two), Marshall, Troy State, etc.


Where is the growth if it is currently the same it was 15 or more years ago? And its actually lower than I previously thought. The FCS attendance has been virtually stagnant from its inception, all you have to do is look at the numbers. 1994 was the previous high, take out App, GSU,GSU and ODU, todays numbers are much less than 1994's, include those schools, and its only marginally better.

All while costs have skyrocketed. Fuel, scholarships, travel, building, housing, staff, equipment, medical, all cost drastically more.

And viewership has remained the same, while enrollment is up massively.

I think the last line of Ursus' post sums it all up. Nobody cares if GSU and App leaves, just leave the rest of us alone while you do it.

[fc97]

You're right, it is just like Romney's 47% comment. However, it's untrue because it's untrue. I'm not going to dump on a FCSD thread any more.

i dont like romney, dont get me wrong. but his 47% comment was dead on accurate.

theres nothing to dump on. to cut costs means offering the things that have an ROI. thats simple business and its the reason i have little sympathy for people who spends thousands on an education that is going to never land them a job able to pay back that education.

[GlassOnion]

I think the last line of Ursus' post sums it all up. Nobody cares if GSU and App leaves, just leave the rest of us alone while you do it.

I am leaving you alone. There is nothing compelling you to haunt this thread but yourself.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I am leaving you alone. There is nothing compelling you to haunt this thread but yourself.

Just like nature abhors a vacuum, I abhor bull****. I simply cannot let incorrect information go unanswered, that is what is compelling me.

[GlassOnion]

Just like nature abhors a vacuum, I abhor bull****. I simply cannot let incorrect information go unanswered, that is what is compelling me.

The info I provided, is not incorrect, so you shouldnt be compelled.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The info I provided, is not incorrect, so you shouldnt be compelled.

This thread is about the relative health of FCS based on financial considerations which are in question only because of a fallacy. I explained that 3 pages ago.

As Ursus said, ODU, GSU, App, and even JMU will be missed as much as Boise, Marshall, and Nevada.

[GlassOnion]

only because of a fallacy.

"The Big Ten scheduling proposal is not yet set in stone, but between the looming four-team FBS playoff and new TV contracts, there is increased pressure for major-college teams to step up their schedules, Iamarino said."

That is a quote from the article cited in the OP. The commisioner of an FCS "power" conference, saying that there IS pressure on major college teams to not schedule FCS teams. I bet he is better connected than you are.

[IBleedYellow]

Am I the only one who feels like App State and GSU are trying to rationalize their want to move up? It's either that or they are trying to rub it in all of our faces that they are leaving us. Goodluck to you guys, but stop *****ting on your current brothers just because you think you are better for going FBS.

I can't wait for you to BE FBS so we don't have to hear about you POSSIBLY being FBS in the near future. Dead horse is dead.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"The Big Ten scheduling proposal is not yet set in stone, but between the looming four-team FBS playoff and new TV contracts, there is increased pressure for major-college teams to step up their schedules, Iamarino said."

That is a quote from the article cited in the OP. The commissioner of an FCS "power" conference, saying that there IS pressure on major college teams to not schedule FCS teams. I bet he is better connected than you are.

Iamarino's statement makes no sense. Where's the pressure coming from? The NCAA? Delany? Fox? ESPN?

The NCAA can't tell schools how to schedule, and certainly the SEC or Pac 12 doesn't give a flying leap what the B1G does in that department. Fox or ESPN might be interested in a juicy early-season OOC contest, but, pressure? Delany might be interested in bringing up his conference's Sagarin rating or something, but is Illinois scheduling Western Michigan over Southern Illinois really going to accomplish that?

You can make a case for the Big Four that every team should have their full allotment of FCS teams on the docket, too. Is an undefeated SEC team with Western Carolina on the schedule really going to be denied a spot at the table? Will an undefeated Pac 12 team with a win over Portland State? For those that don't make the playoff, what's better, scheduling Virginia Tech in a home-and-home that might knock someone out of bowl eligibility or Savannah State, an easy win that might leave your team at 6-6 or 7-5?

All reasons why this moronic ban on FCS teams will be as dead as Elvis very, very soon. Iamarino just seems to be reading his Twitter feed and parroting what the reporters are saying, which has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of the situation.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Am I the only one who feels like App State and GSU are trying to rationalize their want to move up? It's either that or they are trying to rub it in all of our faces that they are leaving us. Goodluck to you guys, but stop *****ting on your current brothers just because you think you are better for going FBS.

I can't wait for you to BE FBS so we don't have to hear about you POSSIBLY being FBS in the near future. Dead horse is dead.

Sure seems like that.


Iamarino's statement makes no sense. Where's the pressure coming from? The NCAA? Delany? Fox? ESPN?

The NCAA can't tell schools how to schedule, and certainly the SEC or Pac 12 doesn't give a flying leap what the B1G does in that department. Fox or ESPN might be interested in a juicy early-season OOC contest, but, pressure? Delany might be interested in bringing up his conference's Sagarin rating or something, but is Illinois scheduling Western Michigan over Southern Illinois really going to accomplish that?

You can make a case for the Big Four that every team should have their full allotment of FCS teams on the docket, too. Is an undefeated SEC team with Western Carolina on the schedule really going to be denied a spot at the table? Will an undefeated Pac 12 team with a win over Portland State? For those that don't make the playoff, what's better, scheduling Virginia Tech in a home-and-home that might knock someone out of bowl eligibility or Savannah State, an easy win that might leave your team at 6-6 or 7-5?

All reasons why this moronic ban on FCS teams will be as dead as Elvis very, very soon. Iamarino just seems to be reading his Twitter feed and parroting what the reporters are saying, which has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of the situation.

This. Knee-jerk reaction at best.

[ASUMountaineer]

Am I the only one who feels like App State and GSU are trying to rationalize their want to move up? It's either that or they are trying to rub it in all of our faces that they are leaving us. Goodluck to you guys, but stop *****ting on your current brothers just because you think you are better for going FBS.

I can't wait for you to BE FBS so we don't have to hear about you POSSIBLY being FBS in the near future. Dead horse is dead.

There's a fairly simple remedy for that. But, you probably know that already.

Just remember, not all of us are crapping on the FCS. xrulesx

[CID1990]

NC's new Republican Governor laid down the law to our state universities saying he would propose legislation to overhaul the way higher education is funded in North Carolina by putting the emphasis on job creation not liberal arts. "I think some of the educational elite have taken over our education where we are offering courses that have no chance of getting people jobs." He used gender studies courses at UNC-Chapel Hill as an example. McCrory said, "If you want to take gender studies that's fine, go to a private school and take it. But I don't want to subsidize that if that's not going to get someone a job." I think every aspect of funding to NC's public universities is going to come under scrutiny, even athletics.

He's 100% spot on, and I'm glad he used Berkeley East, er I mean UNC-CH as an example. Disgraceful what that school has become.

[GlassOnion]

Iamarino's statement makes no sense. Where's the pressure coming from? The NCAA? Delany? Fox? ESPN?

The NCAA can't tell schools how to schedule, and certainly the SEC or Pac 12 doesn't give a flying leap what the B1G does in that department. Fox or ESPN might be interested in a juicy early-season OOC contest, but, pressure? Delany might be interested in bringing up his conference's Sagarin rating or something, but is Illinois scheduling Western Michigan over Southern Illinois really going to accomplish that?

You can make a case for the Big Four that every team should have their full allotment of FCS teams on the docket, too. Is an undefeated SEC team with Western Carolina on the schedule really going to be denied a spot at the table? Will an undefeated Pac 12 team with a win over Portland State? For those that don't make the playoff, what's better, scheduling Virginia Tech in a home-and-home that might knock someone out of bowl eligibility or Savannah State, an easy win that might leave your team at 6-6 or 7-5?

All reasons why this moronic ban on FCS teams will be as dead as Elvis very, very soon. Iamarino just seems to be reading his Twitter feed and parroting what the reporters are saying, which has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of the situation.

It makes no sense, or makes no sense to you?

There is money in an additional nationally televised battle of BCS goliaths. Maximizing profits is not uncommon. With a small window for entry into the BCS playoffs, SOS will matter alot. With your example, does a two loss SEC team, with an FCS get in over a 2 loss SEC team with an FBS win? Does a 2 loss SEC team with an FCS team get in over an undefeated B10 team with an FCS team, or a B10 team with no FCS team?

There are reasons, and there is a conference commish saying there are reasons. If it doesnt happen, or is proven wrong, we can move on.

[IBleedYellow]

There's a fairly simple remedy for that. But, you probably know that already.

Just remember, not all of us are crapping on the FCS. xrulesx

Leave the post that this is talked about? Probably. xpeacex

Either way, I still can't wait for your guys invites to come. It will be a hit for the FCS, but then we won't have to hear about "what-if" anymore, just about "soon to come."

[NoDak 4 Ever]

It makes no sense, or makes no sense to you?

There is money in an additional nationally televised battle of BCS goliaths. Maximizing profits is not uncommon. With a small window for entry into the BCS playoffs, SOS will matter alot. With your example, does a two loss SEC team, with an FCS get in over a 2 loss SEC team with an FBS win? Does a 2 loss SEC team with an FCS team get in over an undefeated B10 team with an FCS team, or a B10 team with no FCS team?

There are reasons, and there is a conference commish saying there are reasons. If it doesnt happen, or is proven wrong, we can move on.

Maybe but there are barely 4 teams that can even be considered BCS "goliaths" in the B1G. What about the other 8 teams? Sounds like a minority there. The B1G is slipping precipitously in prestige and reputation.

[GlassOnion]

Maybe but there are barely 4 teams that can even be considered BCS "goliaths" in the B1G. What about the other 8 teams? Sounds like a minority there. The B1G is slipping precipitously in prestige and reputation.

And beating FCS teams increases that prestige and reputation how?

You can call this Herbstreit Syndrome, and App has had its fair share already.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

And beating FCS teams increases that prestige and reputation how?

You can call this Herbstreit Syndrome, and App has had its fair share already.

It's not a zero sum game. Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue, Illinois, and Iowa will always take those games because there is no chance of them getting into that 4 team playoff. Furthermore, there are so few conferences who even have a prayer of getting into the playoff the MAC, Sun Belt, and Conference USA will never ban FCS games because they need the win and home games.

Chicken Little syndrome indeed.

[ASUMountaineer]

Leave the post that this is talked about? Probably. xpeacex

Either way, I still can't wait for your guys invites to come. It will be a hit for the FCS, but then we won't have to hear about "what-if" anymore, just about "soon to come."

That's cool...just remember that not all of us denigrate the FCS. Yes, I trust App State's leadership's decision that a move to the FBS is in App's best interest, but that doesn't mean I now view the FCS differently. I get that this makes no difference to you, but it is true.

[IBleedYellow]

That's cool...just remember that not all of us denigrate the FCS. Yes, I trust App State's leadership's decision that a move to the FBS is in App's best interest, but that doesn't mean I now view the FCS differently. I get that this makes no difference to you, but it is true.

Oh, I know this. I talked with some very cool GSU fans that said they loved the FCS model when they were up here last for the semifinal game. It's another one of those "lakes" type situations where one fan ruins it for the others.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

That's cool...just remember that not all of us denigrate the FCS. Yes, I trust App State's leadership's decision that a move to the FBS is in App's best interest, but that doesn't mean I now view the FCS differently. I get that this makes no difference to you, but it is true.

Not directly, but comparing it to DII and NDSU's move is within an eyelash of doing it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There is money in an additional nationally televised battle of BCS goliaths. Maximizing profits is not uncommon.

It's one thing to say there is money in additional nationally televised TV games, and maximizing profits. It's quite another to say that there is pressure being exerted on schools to do what they don't want to do (give up FCS games and additional home games) to force them to do this.

There's absolutely nothing that says to schools they don't have to try to get more nationally televised TV games if they so desire. If a school believes that scheduling Boise State home-and-home will improve their crystal trophy chances, by all means do so. Illinois won't stop you.


With a small window for entry into the BCS playoffs, SOS will matter alot. With your example, does a two loss SEC team, with an FCS get in over a 2 loss SEC team with an FBS win? Does a 2 loss SEC team with an FCS team get in over an undefeated B10 team with an FCS team, or a B10 team with no FCS team?

There are reasons, and there is a conference commish saying there are reasons. If it doesnt happen, or is proven wrong, we can move on.

First of all, nobody knows the "real" answer to this, because it hasn't been done yet. But when the doors are locked and the committee makes their decisions, who knows what the horse trading will really be like? There's no more BCS formula to kick around anymore. All that remains will be a bunch of representatives trying to figure out how to split up all their money. Politics will rule the day. Whether Ohio State scheduled Boise State, Idaho or Idaho State will be irrelevant.

[IBleedYellow]

Not directly, but comparing it to DII and NDSU's move is within an eyelash of doing it.

At the same time NoDak, FCS could become the sort of DII, but I think it will take a few years.
For all of those fans that want to go to FBS because "we aren't true DI" I think they are suffering from jealousy and trying to get acceptance from their "big brothers."
Sort of like how certain NDSU fans have to go on UofM boards and act like NDSU is so much better than the Gophers all the time. The longing to be the big kid on the block. Nothing wrong with that, but constantly moaning about not being the biggest kid on the block gets old, fast.

[Skjellyfetti]

But when the doors are locked and the committee makes their decisions, who knows what the horse trading will really be like?

And, this is different from FCS?

Weren't you pretty upset when your 10-1 team was shut out of the playoffs this past year? xconfusedx

[cbarrier90]

For all the anti-FBS slander in here, he whole purpose of the OP is to state that the FCS is not a perfect situation either as many in this thread would love to believe.

I understand that this board is for FCS talk and that posters' views will be slanted as such, but is it wrong to question the direction of the Subdivision? That, IMO is a bigger concern than moving up and is the primary reason behind ASU and GSU's continuous flirtation with the idea of the Sun Belt. Is the Sun Belt the greatest thing since sliced bread? No. But it appears Iamarino wants to make the SoCon the next NEC, and I'd prefer not to see ASU fall to that level. Success in either subdivision is not guaranteed.

[WileECoyote06]

Actually, it doesn't because what he's saying is patently incorrect.

Can we please move this to the lounge? Ursus hates this kind of ****.

Pretty much. Ironic that McCrazy makes these types of comments, when he holds a liberal arts degree.

[GlassOnion]

It's one thing to say there is money in additional nationally televised TV games, and maximizing profits. It's quite another to say that there is pressure being exerted on schools to do what they don't want to do (give up FCS games and additional home games) to force them to do this.


First of all, nobody knows the "real" answer to this, because it hasn't been done yet. But when the doors are locked and the committee makes their decisions, who knows what the horse trading will really be like? There's no more BCS formula to kick around anymore. All that remains will be a bunch of representatives trying to figure out how to split up all their money. Politics will rule the day. Whether Ohio State scheduled Boise State, Idaho or Idaho State will be irrelevant.

What in the world is the difference if schools are banned from doing it by conferences, or are persuaded to do it by their peers, TV contracts or a playoff committee? The result is the same. If ANY significant # of FBS schools or conferences decide to do this, and there ARE reasons to do it, it will impact the FCS. Even if the Sun Belt and CUSA do it, they dont pay nearly as much as the BCS teams do. Media pressure on BCS teams to drop FCS games has been building since 2007 when Herbstreit made his famous ridiculous statement. Had App not beat Michigan, it may have been in place much sooner.

And no, we dont know exactly what the BCS playoff will do, thats why we're talking about what might happen, and what a Socon Commish says the pressure is. He said, TV contracts and playoffs are creating the pressure. Thats the quote.

[Bisonoline]

At the same time NoDak, FCS could become the sort of DII, but I think it will take a few years.
For all of those fans that want to go to FBS because "we aren't true DI" I think they are suffering from jealousy and trying to get acceptance from their "big brothers."
Sort of like how certain NDSU fans have to go on UofM boards and act like NDSU is so much better than the Gophers all the time. The longing to be the big kid on the block. Nothing wrong with that, but constantly moaning about not being the biggest kid on the block gets old, fast.

Alot of penis envy out there. They really dont care about whats best for NDSU or the FB program. All they care about is being able to say we play with the big boys. IMO FCS isnt any different than what D2 was many years ago before it got watered down with schollie cuts.. The We are D1 mantra---chest thumping gets pretty old when we truly arent playing with the big boys.

[GlassOnion]

IMO FCS isnt any different than what D2 was many years ago before it got watered down with schollie cuts.. The We are D1 mantra---chest thumping gets pretty old when we truly arent playing with the big boys.

Bingo.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Alot of penis envy out there. They really dont care about whats best for NDSU or the FB program. All they care about is being able to say we play with the big boys. IMO FCS isnt any different than what D2 was many years ago before it got watered down with schollie cuts.. The We are D1 mantra---chest thumping gets pretty old when we truly arent playing with the big boys.

Who are the big boys? Western Michigan? Akron? Because THAT'S the FBS that they aspire to. It will never, ever be the BCS

[Bisonoline]

Who are the big boys? Western Michigan? Akron? Because THAT'S the FBS that they aspire to. It will never, ever be the BCS

Western Mich etc are just stepping stones. Havent you heard??? NDSU will be a top 20 team in 10-20 years.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What in the world is the difference if schools are banned from doing it by conferences, or are persuaded to do it by their peers, TV contracts or a playoff committee? The result is the same. If ANY significant # of FBS schools or conferences decide to do this, and there ARE reasons to do it, it will impact the FCS.

Are you really so dim that you can't see the difference between schools making business decisions on their own and a conference forcing them to do it?

Nobody here is moaning about Notre Dame or Michigan or Wisconsin not choosing to schedule FCS games if they don't want to individually. What is at issue, however, is when Michigan and Wisconsin tell Illinois and Northwestern not to schedule FCS teams.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Iamarino's statement makes no sense. Where's the pressure coming from? The NCAA? Delany? Fox? ESPN?...

...All reasons why this moronic ban on FCS teams will be as dead as Elvis very, very soon. Iamarino just seems to be reading his Twitter feed and parroting what the reporters are saying, which has absolutely nothing to do with the reality of the situation.

1) It could be that Iamarino has better information.

2) This could also be him presenting a worst-case scenario in response to a reporter's question, as a way to get out in front of the issue. There has been more than a little "Go Big 10" from a lot of the national press (have you read Frank Schwab's stuff?). It's a way to remind folks that there are potential repercussions that may not be in the best interests of football in general.

[GlassOnion]

Are you really so dim that you can't see the difference between schools making business decisions on their own and a conference forcing them to do it?

Nobody here is moaning about Notre Dame or Michigan or Wisconsin not choosing to schedule FCS games if they don't want to individually. What is at issue, however, is when Michigan and Wisconsin tell Illinois and Northwestern not to schedule FCS teams.

If you want to stick your head that deep in the sand and deny any possibility or evidence that you dont like, I'll just have a new place to park my bike.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This could also be him presenting a worst-case scenario in response to a reporter's question, as a way to get out in front of the issue. There has been more than a little "Go Big 10" from a lot of the national press (have you read Frank Schwab's stuff?). It's a way to remind folks that there are potential repercussions that may not be in the best interests of football in general.

A fair enough observation, however I think it more likely he's inadvertently legitimizing the "Go Big 10" rah-rah crap rather than laying out the repercussions. The SEC, Big XII, and Pac 12 have said nothing on the matter.

[GlassOnion]

A fair enough observation, however I think it more likely he's inadvertently legitimizing the "Go Big 10" rah-rah crap rather than laying out the repercussions. The SEC, Big XII, and Pac 12 have said nothing on the matter.

Yeah. Silence is a sure sign that nothing is happening. LOL.

I caution you, I've got those big nubby mud tires on my bike...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What in the world is the difference if schools are banned from doing it by conferences, or are persuaded to do it by their peers, TV contracts or a playoff committee? The result is the same. If ANY significant # of FBS schools or conferences decide to do this, and there ARE reasons to do it, it will impact the FCS. Even if the Sun Belt and CUSA do it, they dont pay nearly as much as the BCS teams do. Media pressure on BCS teams to drop FCS games has been building since 2007 when Herbstreit made his famous ridiculous statement. Had App not beat Michigan, it may have been in place much sooner.


Are you really so dim that you can't see the difference between schools making business decisions on their own and a conference forcing them to do it?

Nobody here is moaning about Notre Dame or Michigan or Wisconsin not choosing to schedule FCS games if they don't want to individually. What is at issue, however, is when Michigan and Wisconsin tell Illinois and Northwestern not to schedule FCS teams.


If you want to stick your head that deep in the sand and deny any possibility or evidence that you dont like, I'll just have a new place to park my bike.

If the media coverage has been so against FCS vs. FBS games, and teams are so loth to do it, how come there were 107 of them in 2012 and currently 107 of them scheduled this season?

If supply and demand are going to work to reduce the number of FCS vs. FBS games, why bother prohibiting them? Why mandate that schools don't do it? Seems to me like Delany wants to prohibit schools from doing what they truly wish to do.

The truth is that any reduction of FCS vs. FBS games is not borne out by the facts this season.

How am I denying evidence I don't like? There's no evidence that FBS schools are dropping FCS games en masse. There's just one AD's comments about a POSSIBLE ban that WOULD have an effect on FCS scheduling in THEIR CONFERENCE. Saying that "there would be an impact if the Sun Belt did that" is very much true, but you, sir, have no evidence of that either.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yeah. Silence is a sure sign that nothing is happening. LOL.

I caution you, I've got those big nubby mud tires on my bike...

A better question: Why on earth would they stop scheduling them? They make so much sense in terms of home attendance, wins, and lack of impact on the postseason they're a virtual lay-up.

[GlassOnion]

A better question: Why on earth would they stop scheduling them? They make so much sense in terms of home attendance, wins, and lack of impact on the postseason they're a virtual lay-up.

There is no point in going on.

FCS games are scheduled, because, surprise, schedules are made months and years ahead of time.

A majority of FBS fans, do not want to see an FCS game on the schedule, the media is on the record, every single year before such games, denigrating the practice. The media has every reason to squeeze another BCS/FBS matchup out of the conferences to whom they are paying enormous sums of money.

A Big 10 AD mentions it. Where do you think that came from, that he just made it up? Dont you think its at least being talked about? A Socon Commish doesnt say that only one FBS AD said it, his quote cited pressure from media and playoffs as the reason, not some Big 10 AD.

There is evidence to support it, and your only argument seems to be "thats ludicrous because I havent heard about it and dont want it to happen."

[NoDak 4 Ever]

There is no point in going on.

FCS games are scheduled, because, surprise, schedules are made months and years ahead of time.

A majority of FBS fans, do not want to see an FCS game on the schedule, the media is on the record, every single year before such games, denigrating the practice. The media has every reason to squeeze another BCS/FBS matchup out of the conferences to whom they are paying enormous sums of money.

A Big 10 AD mentions it. Where do you think that came from, that he just made it up? Dont you think its at least being talked about? A Socon Commish doesnt say that only one FBS AD said it, his quote cited pressure from media and playoffs as the reason, not some Big 10 AD.

There is evidence to support it, and your only argument seems to be "thats ludicrous because I havent heard about it and dont want it to happen."

Perhaps it's just coincidence but Wisconsin almost lost to UNI. That could be part of it.

[GlassOnion]

Perhaps it's just coincidence but Wisconsin almost lost to UNI. That could be part of it.

Ah, and that prompted the Socon commish to mention cutting scholarship numbers? Or did he just randomly throw out the possibility, for the hell of it?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Ah, and that prompted the Socon commish to mention cutting scholarship numbers? Or did he just randomly throw out the possibility, for the hell of it?

His reaction was to the B1G non-announcement. If he wants to proclaim the sky is falling, we don't have to believe him.

[kperk014]

What? The growth is there tiger and it goes completely against the "FCS is dying" clowncar that some of you are cruising around in. If you completely take out those few teams and the number drops, which it will for a period,, and that number goes back to 1998 type attendance when it wasn't dying then how is it now dying? Yes I'm shrugging my shoulders because it's an idiot that argues that it's dying and the reason teams need to jump.

You want to use that sort of information bias in your argument go ahead but I ain't going along with ya on it.

Adios, good luck, it won't matter to the division in a couple years at all just like it didn't when Nevada, Boise, Idaho (which was as big in IAA as the other two), Marshall, Troy State, etc.

The attendance situation is why some FCS conference is missing the boat on North Alabama.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A majority of FBS fans, do not want to see an FCS game on the schedule, the media is on the record, every single year before such games, denigrating the practice. The media has every reason to squeeze another BCS/FBS matchup out of the conferences to whom they are paying enormous sums of money.

A Big 10 AD mentions it. Where do you think that came from, that he just made it up? Dont you think its at least being talked about? A Socon Commish doesnt say that only one FBS AD said it, his quote cited pressure from media and playoffs as the reason, not some Big 10 AD.

There is evidence to support it, and your only argument seems to be "thats ludicrous because I havent heard about it and dont want it to happen."

Gee, the fans are so fed up that they're continuing to come to these home matchups in droves.

Wisconsin vs. UNI:

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=322450275

ATTENDANCE: 79,568

Arizona State/Northern Arizona:

http://www.nauathletics.com/sports/fball/2012-13/releases/20120831bysth2

Attendance: 48658

North Carolina vs. Elon:

http://www.goheels.com/ViewContent.dbml?DB_LANG=C&SPID=12962&SPSID=667864&SITE=UNC&DB_OEM_ID=3350&CONTENT_ID=225700

Attendance: 50500

Eastern Kentucky vs. Purdue:

http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2012-2013/pur12-01.html

Attendance: 40572

Florida State vs. Murray State:

http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2012-2013/fs090112.html

Attendance: 70047

Indiana vs. Indiana State:

http://www.iuhoosiers.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2012-2013/g1indst.html

Attendance: 41882

I mean, wow. Wow. People are really, really voting with their wallets that they don't want FCS matchups. xlolx xlolx xlolx

[GlassOnion]

Gee, the fans are so fed up that they're continuing to come to these home matchups in droves.

I mean, wow. Wow. People are really, really voting with their wallets that they don't want FCS matchups. xlolx xlolx xlolx

Can you tell me that those schools' fans wanted FCS teams on their schedule. I didnt think so.

You've got the fans wanting them off, the media wanting them off, and now because of playoffs, the conferences. But hey, whats one more pressure?

[Apphole]

Gee, the fans are so fed up that they're continuing to come to these home matchups in droves.

Wisconsin vs. UNI:

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=322450275

ATTENDANCE: 79,568

Arizona State/Northern Arizona:

http://www.nauathletics.com/sports/fball/2012-13/releases/20120831bysth2

Attendance: 48658

North Carolina vs. Elon:

http://www.goheels.com/ViewContent.dbml?DB_LANG=C&SPID=12962&SPSID=667864&SITE=UNC&DB_OEM_ID=3350&CONTENT_ID=225700

Attendance: 50500

Eastern Kentucky vs. Purdue:

http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2012-2013/pur12-01.html

Attendance: 40572

Florida State vs. Murray State:

http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2012-2013/fs090112.html

Attendance: 70047

Indiana vs. Indiana State:

http://www.iuhoosiers.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2012-2013/g1indst.html

Attendance: 41882

I mean, wow. Wow. People are really, really voting with their wallets that they don't want FCS matchups. xlolx xlolx xlolx

Alright, now compare those numbers to games against FBS teams. And just because they show up doesn't mean they wouldn't much prefer to see 100% FBS competition. I go to App games even when we play NC A&T and Coastal, but I'd rather had bigger-time opponents for any given game.

[Bisonoline]

Gee, the fans are so fed up that they're continuing to come to these home matchups in droves.

Wisconsin vs. UNI:

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=322450275

ATTENDANCE: 79,568

Arizona State/Northern Arizona:

http://www.nauathletics.com/sports/fball/2012-13/releases/20120831bysth2

Attendance: 48658

North Carolina vs. Elon:

http://www.goheels.com/ViewContent.dbml?DB_LANG=C&SPID=12962&SPSID=667864&SITE=UNC&DB_OEM_ID=3350&CONTENT_ID=225700

Attendance: 50500

Eastern Kentucky vs. Purdue:

http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2012-2013/pur12-01.html

Attendance: 40572

Florida State vs. Murray State:

http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2012-2013/fs090112.html

Attendance: 70047

Indiana vs. Indiana State:

http://www.iuhoosiers.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2012-2013/g1indst.html

Attendance: 41882

I mean, wow. Wow. People are really, really voting with their wallets that they don't want FCS matchups. xlolx xlolx xlolx

You need to learn the difference between cause and effect. In the case of playing inferior teams many season ticket holders will sell their tickets for those games at a discount. You also have many fans who dont want to play the tomato cans but will show up because its a big party and it is college FB. Last year I absolutely hated playing PV but the tailgating is great and the Bison were playing. NOBODY was thrilled to be playing PV and by half time everyone was feeling bored and sorry for them.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just because they show up doesn't mean they wouldn't much prefer to see 100% FBS competition.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fans: "We hate FCS games"

Wallets: "We're going to FCS games and spending the money on them"

I mean, what matters here?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Don't always agree with Stuart Mandel, but I do here.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130227/oklahoma-ncaa-mark-emmert-mailbag/?sct=hp_wr_a1&eref=sihp


Alvarez's comments (on his radio show) sure got a lot of mileage, but from what I've been told, no such ban is on the table yet. It's true that both Jim Delany and his league ADs have talked openly about the need to upgrade nonconference schedules. That's partially anticipation of the new playoff system and its purported emphasis on strength of schedule (including the fact undefeated Ohio State last year might have missed the playoff due to the weak state of the conference), and it's partially a league-wide admission that it can no longer put anyone on the schedule and assume its teams will still sell out their stadiums. But I don't think the end result will be an across-the-board ban on FCS opponents.

For one thing, it's financially impractical. Programs with big stadiums will still want at last seven home games. Even with nine conference games and a marquee home-and-home, teams are still going to need at least one "guarantee" game. It already costs upwards of $1 million to book a low-level FBS foe, and those numbers will get even higher if FCS is not an option. For another, some teams' schedules may actually become worse if forced to replace upper-tier FCS teams (like Appalachian State) with bottom-of-the-heap FBS foes. Tennessee, for instance, would have fared better in Sagarin's ratings last season had it replaced No. 103 Troy (Sun Belt) with No. 72 Georgia Southern (FCS). And finally, this proposal wouldn't be fair to FCS programs that depend heavily on the paycheck from guarantee games to fund their entire athletic department. My guess is you'll see the Big Ten schedule fewer guarantee games in general, which will include fewer FCS foes, but not a unilateral ban.

[Apphole]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

That always works when you have no real response. xshhhx

[GlassOnion]

Fans: "We hate FCS games"

Wallets: "We're going to FCS games and spending the money on them"

I mean, what matters here?

Fox, CBS, ESPN1&2, NBC, playoff committee:

"Hey Big 10, 12, Pac12, SEC, ACC, we'll put you on National TV an extra week if you play an FBS team instead of FCS, and we'll even give you more consideration when filling playoff spots. BTW, your fans agree."

Big10, 12, Pac12, SEC, ACC:

"Hell yes Fox, CBS, ESPN1&2, NBC, and playoff committee. Lets do it. More money for us, TV, and a greater shot at a playoff spot, where do we sign?"


What matters here?

[ASUMountaineer]

Not directly, but comparing it to DII and NDSU's move is within an eyelash of doing it.

False. I have never compared it to D-II, and the comparison between NDSU's move and App State/GSU's potential move is valid. Your administration felt that NDSU fit better in the FCS than in D-II and that it was in NDSU's best interest to move. App State and GSU's admin has done the same thing.

If you can't see that, that's your problem.

[ASUMountaineer]

At the same time NoDak, FCS could become the sort of DII, but I think it will take a few years.
For all of those fans that want to go to FBS because "we aren't true DI" I think they are suffering from jealousy and trying to get acceptance from their "big brothers."
Sort of like how certain NDSU fans have to go on UofM boards and act like NDSU is so much better than the Gophers all the time. The longing to be the big kid on the block. Nothing wrong with that, but constantly moaning about not being the biggest kid on the block gets old, fast.

But, that's a generalization. Is it true for some fans? Absolutely. But, it's not true for all fans. It fits NoDak's narrative well, but it's simply not true across the board as he would have people believe.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

That is stunningly stupid.

Only to a liberal democrat. To taxpayers who are tired of funding courses that do nothing but expand someone's mind it makes perfect sense. I could have missed it, but don't think I've ever seen a company advertise an opening for someone with a degree in philosophy.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Only to a liberal democrat. To taxpayers who are tired of funding courses that do nothing but expand someone's mind it makes perfect sense. I could have missed it, but don't think I've ever seen a company advertise an opening for someone with a degree in philosophy.

Yet people with philosophy degrees get jobs all the time. Your anecdotal reference is empirically disproven. Furthermore, Rev and I have anecdotes that say exactly the opposite.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

So the problem is Republican governors ruining higher education. Makes sense.

No. The problem is for the last 40 years Democrat governors have been ruining higher education.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

This thread is about the relative health of FCS based on financial considerations which are in question only because of a fallacy. I explained that 3 pages ago.

As Ursus said, ODU, GSU, App, and even JMU will be missed as much as Boise, Marshall, and Nevada.

You Johnny Come Lately's don't have a clue how much they are missed.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Here is the unemployment rate, major agnostic, as it pertains to level of education.

It isn't the college educated that are having trouble finding jobs.

http://chart.googleapis.com/chart?chxl=1:|Less+than+High+school+(14.1+percent) |High+school+diploma+(9.4+percent)|Some+college%2C +no+degree+(8.7+percent)|Associate+degree+(6.8+per cent)|Bachelor%27s+degree+(4.9+percent)|Master%27s +degree+(3.6+percent)|Professional+degree+(2.4+per cent)|Ph.D.+(2.5+percent)&chxr=0,0,15&chxt=x,y&chbh=a&chs=420x225&cht=bhg&chco=A2C180&chds=0,15&chd=t:2.5,2.4,3.6,4.9,6.8,8.7,9.4,14.1&chtt=Unemployment+rate+in+2011

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Alright, now compare those numbers to games against FBS teams. And just because they show up doesn't mean they wouldn't much prefer to see 100% FBS competition. I go to App games even when we play NC A&T and Coastal, but I'd rather had bigger-time opponents for any given game.

That's the thing, Apphole. Unless fans of the big money schools vote en masse with their wallets and say they won't come to watch games against FCS teams, nothing will change. UGA, for example, sells out their 90k stadium whether they are playing Alabama or Georgia Southern. UGA fans complain about the non-conference schedule, but what incentive does UGA have to stop playing FCS teams? It's like people b***ing and moaning about the lack of originality in Hollywood while continuing to pay outrageous ticket prices. They aren't going to listen to your complaining as long as your money keeps rolling in.

And the schools where attendance might dip enough with a no-name opponent that that doesn't apply - they will continue to schedule FCS games to help them get to a bowl bid. You think Indiana, who expects their coaches to get a bowl bid at least once every 3 years, won't have something to say about losing the chance to get an easy win to count towards their bowl eligibility?

[WH49er]

Yet people with philosophy degrees get jobs all the time. Your anecdotal reference is empirically disproven. Furthermore, Rev and I have anecdotes that say exactly the opposite.


Sorry to derail the thread again but you're using a data set of 2 prove your point. xbangx

Notice a common theme here when crossed with the most popular.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-57325132/25-college-majors-with-the-highest-unemployment-rates/


College majors with the highest unemployment


1. Clinical psychology 19.5%
2. Miscellaneous fine arts 16.2%
3. United States history 15.1%
4. Library science 15.0%
5. (tie) Military technologies; educational psychology 10.9%
6. Architecture 10.6%
7. Industrial & organizational psychology 10.4%
8. Miscellaneous psychology 10.3%
9. Linguistics & comparative literature 10.2%
10. (tie) Visual & performing arts; engineering & industrial management 9.2%
11. Engineering & industrial management 9.2%
12. Social psychology 8.8%
13. International business 8.5%
14. Humanities 8.4%
15. General social sciences 8.2%
16. Commercial art & graphic design 8.1%
17. Studio art 8.0%
18. Pre-law & legal studies 7.9%
19. Materials engineering and materials science and composition & speech (tie) 7.7%
20. Liberal arts 7.6%
21. (tie) Fine arts and genetics 7.4%
22. Film video & photography arts and cosmetology services & culinary arts (tie) 7.3%
23. Philosophy & religious studies and neuroscience (tie) 7.2%
24. Biochemical sciences 7.1%
25. (tie) Journalism and sociology 7.0%





http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/Unemployment.Final.update1.pdf

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Sorry to derail the thread again but you're using a data set of 2 prove your point. xbangx

Notice a common theme here.


College majors with the highest unemployment


1. Clinical psychology 19.5%
2. Miscellaneous fine arts 16.2%
3. United States history 15.1%
4. Library science 15.0%
5. (tie) Military technologies; educational psychology 10.9%
6. Architecture 10.6%
7. Industrial & organizational psychology 10.4%
8. Miscellaneous psychology 10.3%
9. Linguistics & comparative literature 10.2%
10. (tie) Visual & performing arts; engineering & industrial management 9.2%
11. Engineering & industrial management 9.2%
12. Social psychology 8.8%
13. International business 8.5%
14. Humanities 8.4%
15. General social sciences 8.2%
16. Commercial art & graphic design 8.1%
17. Studio art 8.0%
18. Pre-law & legal studies 7.9%
19. Materials engineering and materials science and composition & speech (tie) 7.7%
20. Liberal arts 7.6%
21. (tie) Fine arts and genetics 7.4%
22. Film video & photography arts and cosmetology services & culinary arts (tie) 7.3%
23. Philosophy & religious studies and neuroscience (tie) 7.2%
24. Biochemical sciences 7.1%
25. (tie) Journalism and sociology 7.0%





http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/Unemployment.Final.update1.pdf

I'm confused. Liberal arts has one of the lowest unemployment rates on the list. I think you're actually proving my point.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Sorry to derail the thread again but you're using a data set of 2 prove your point. xbangx

Notice a common theme here.


College majors with the highest unemployment

13. International business 8.5%
14. Humanities 8.4%



Guess we should discourage all that silly business school education and get them into a more job-ready major like English.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Guess we should discourage all that silly business school education and get them into a more job-ready major like English.

I know, right? It seems the less "job focused" your education is, the more opportunity to get a job.

[WH49er]

I'm confused. Liberal arts has one of the lowest unemployment rates on the list. I think you're actually proving my point.

Read the 1st paragraph of page 4 and look at page 7 again, Humanities & Liberal Arts 3rd highest unemployment among recent graduates right behind Arts and above Social Sciences.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You Johnny Come Lately's don't have a clue how much they are missed.

Bull. I know exactly how much they are missed. I watched way more of those games in person than you could ever attest to. Your Johnny come lately doesn't apply to the guy that made the statement (me) and on a personal level I'd like to still see em' on the schedule but it doesn't change the fact that them leaving didn't put FCS back and you leaving, GSU leaving etc. also won't be part of the FCS is dying claim which is what my comment addressed in the first place.

Those teams moving on gave teams like App and Montana a better chance at getting a seat at the table and those two teams as well as others filled in just fine in their absense. Same will occur again.

How can I be sure on that? Simple, those same dip**** claims were made by Nevada, Boise, Idaho, and Marshall fans which I talked to pretty frequently in person. Marshall fans in 95 & 96 didn't have a lot of respect for playing teams like App just so you know and showed the same sort of disrespect that some of y'all now exercise. I imagine that is part of the reason that former SoCon mates could give a crap if they fell off the face of the earth.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Read the 1st paragraph of page 4 and look at page 7 again, Humanities & Liberal Arts 3rd highest unemployment among recent graduates right behind Arts and above Social Sciences.

well 100% of the people with humanities degrees in my house have jobs. Good thing we passed on NC twice.

[WH49er]

well 100% of the people with humanities degrees in my house have jobs. Good thing we passed on NC twice.


College no matter what is the right choice as everyone of those majors has a lower unemployment than HS graduates (23%) and HS dropouts (31%).



And you are right NC sucks, the mountains and the beach are horrible. xintx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

College no matter what is the right choice as everyone of those majors has a lower unemployment than HS graduates (23%) and HS dropouts (31%).



And you are right NC sucks, the mountains and the beach are horrible. xintx

Not sure if it's NC or just App State but they cancelled the search for the position my wife applied. Since it is unlikely they couldn't find a suitable candidate, conventional wisdom is they probably don't have the money anymore.

[Apphole]

College no matter what is the right choice as everyone of those majors has a lower unemployment than HS graduates (23%) and HS dropouts (31%).



And you are right NC sucks, the mountains and the beach are horrible. xintx

HA! Caught you saying something nice about us. xblehx

[Saint3333]

well 100% of the people with humanities degrees in my house have jobs. Good thing we passed on NC twice.

So now we should accept the sample selection of your household over the article posted by 49er, I've seen some stretches of reality on here, but you sir have taken it to the next level, congrats.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So now we should accept the sample selection of your household over the article posted by 49er, I've seen some stretches of reality on here, but you sir have taken it to the next level, congrats.

I'm answering the anecdotal "never saw an ad for a philosophy major". As it stands, those unemployment numbers are among college graduates, not the population at large. As you can see, if you have a college degree in anything, your unemployment rate is 4.9% Full employment is defined as roughly 4% so your governor's attack on liberal arts flies in the face of fact, but most Republicans do anyway so that's no surprise.

[Saint3333]

No one is arguing college grads have a lower unemployment %, but many majors have worse percentages. A couple percentage points means quite a bit when it comes to loan default rates. Hence the bubble many are speaking to.

[Skjellyfetti]

So, y'all think that government should decide which majors/career paths are most desirable and allocate funding according to the needs of the state?


Sounds pretty socialistic, imo.

[WileECoyote06]

So, y'all think that government should decide which majors/career paths are most desirable and allocate funding according to the needs of the state?


Sounds pretty socialistic, imo.

Ironic huh?

Just like the ridiculous propaganda against public education in favor of privately run charter schools paid for with public dollars; all you gotta do is look into people's stock portfolios.

[GSU EAGLES]

So, what was this thread about? FCS potentially reducing scholarships because the B1G will no longer play FCS teams?

[CID1990]

So, y'all think that government should decide which majors/career paths are most desirable and allocate funding according to the needs of the state?


Sounds pretty socialistic, imo.

It's more like NOT funding gender studies. See how that works?


Sent from the center of the universe.

[TheRevSFA]

Ah so we've learned you have a better chance of getting a job with a liberal arts degree as opposed to an engineering one

[CID1990]

Ah so we've learned you have a better chance of getting a job with a liberal arts degree as opposed to an engineering one

Yeah, if you like counting the cash drawer for 2am shift change down at the Stop n Rob.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[TheRevSFA]

Yeah, if you like counting the cash drawer for 2am shift change down at the Stop n Rob.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Is that like the degree from the citadel allowing you to stock shelves at your local Academy?

[Hammerhead]

Using Minnesota as an example, do you think they could make more money selling 40,000 tickets hosting an FCS school from the Dakotas or Northern Iowa every year, or 50,000 tickets for a home and home series with a quality FBS opponent.


Alright, now compare those numbers to games against FBS teams. And just because they show up doesn't mean they wouldn't much prefer to see 100% FBS competition. I go to App games even when we play NC A&T and Coastal, but I'd rather had bigger-time opponents for any given game.

[cbarrier90]

25 pages. Well done, Saint...