Division I-AA teams in Bowl Games?

[VictorG]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14408233/

Here's a paragraph from the article:

Already, more than half the squads will need to post six wins (and six losses is OK too these days). What if a handful of these juggernauts are on probation and thus ineligible for bowl appearances? Further, a dozen schools received a letter from the NCAA, informing them their Division 1-A status could be in jeopardy because they failed to average 15,000 fans per home game in 2005. If they fail to reach 15,000 again this season, teams such as Bowling Green (6-5 in 2005) and Akron (7-6 in 2005) could drop out of bowl land. Division I-AA teams may even get a call to fill in.

[Tod]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14408233/

Here's a paragraph from the article:

Already, more than half the squads will need to post six wins (and six losses is OK too these days). What if a handful of these juggernauts are on probation and thus ineligible for bowl appearances? Further, a dozen schools received a letter from the NCAA, informing them their Division 1-A status could be in jeopardy because they failed to average 15,000 fans per home game in 2005. If they fail to reach 15,000 again this season, teams such as Bowling Green (6-5 in 2005) and Akron (7-6 in 2005) could drop out of bowl land. Division I-AA teams may even get a call to fill in.

That can't happen, can it? Granted, YSU would have been an excellent choice last season, but most of the teams that would be reasonable competition at a lower level bowl game will be involved in the playoffs.

What about the SWAC or Ivy League? If either conference accepted a bowl game, they should be thrown out of I-AA and sent to I-A. You can't just skip the playoffs for your division and play in the post-season of another division. :confused:

This is crazy. I think the author must be on crack (at least I hope).

The NCAA should not allow that.

Ralph! 89Hen! Mr. C! What ya got?

[*****]

ugh. More I-AA WAVES material!

[Mr. C]

Bowl games No. 1 are about making money for the folks putting them on, the schools, the conferences, the TV networks etc. It would be a lot more likely that the NCAA would grant a special dispensation for a team with a losing record to go to a bowl than to open a can of worms by allowing a I-AA team to fill that slot. The Ivy League? No way they would accept a bowl bid? The SWAC? Conceivably, a big name SWAC school like Grambling could be coaxed into a bowl if enough money were offered, but they would also need to finish second in their division and not receive an invite to the SWAC championship game. There was talk years ago about teams all being declared simply Division I (no As, AAs or BCS or CS etc.) and the individual school announcing at the beginnning of each if they were competing for a bowl bid, or a playoff bid.

Still, the column is pretty ludicrous.

[*****]

funny the article spells "1-A" but also "I-AA." xlolx

[GeauxColonels]

The author has a few good points....but he was completely ignorant to include I-AA in the discussion.

[GAD]

Don't you have to have at atlease 6 wins vs. I-A teams to play in a bowl or was that rule changed?

[GeauxColonels]

Don't you have to have at atlease 6 wins vs. I-A teams to play in a bowl or was that rule changed?
I think it was changed so that I-A teams can now count victories over I-AA towards bowl eligibility. If I'm not mistaken, I-A teams used to only be able to count a victory over I-AA once every 4 years.

[mikebigg]

You let the New Orleans Bowl offer Grambling $275K to play in that game and watch how fast Melvin Spears has the team hyped for a Bowl Bid. We'd play the SCG on Dec 10th and start practicing on the way home from Birmingham with Championship trophy in hand :nod: :nod: Do they play that game in the Dome or at Gormley?

In fact, say there was ever a year where Grambling or Southern had only one or two losses (including the BC) and wouldn't go to the SCG. Either team would be a good team to have in the New Orleans Bowl...but especially whichever of the two won the SCG. Make the announcement after that game is complete and watch the ticket sales.

[GeauxColonels]

You let the New Orleans Bowl offer Grambling $275K to play in that game and watch how fast Melvin Spears has the team hyped for a Bowl Bid. We'd play the SCG on Dec 10th and start practicing on the way home from Birmingham with Championship trophy in hand :nod: :nod: Do they play that game in the Dome or at Gormley?

In fact, say there was ever a year where Grambling or Southern had only one or two losses (including the BC) and wouldn't go to the SCG. Either team would be a good team to have in the New Orleans Bowl...but especially whichever of the two won the SCG. Make the announcement after that game is complete and watch the ticket sales.
The Dome of course.

[*****]

You let the New Orleans Bowl offer Grambling $275K to play in that game and watch how fast Melvin Spears has the team hyped for a Bowl Bid. We'd play the SCG...Can't play two postseason games without an NCAA exception. (playoffs count as one in case you're wondering)

[mikebigg]

Can't play two postseason games without an NCAA exception. (playoffs count as one in case you're wondering)

Do you think the NCAA would reject the request? Since our teams are already not participating in the playoffs wouldn't this cause the NCAA to come under heavy media criticism. Especially if it was done as a 1 time exception.

Of course this wouldn't apply if BC's losing team had only 1 or two losses. But I would prefer it being the conference Champion.

[*****]

Has the NCAA ever let a team play two postseason games? BTW Mike, what is "BC's"? Also, there are only three SWAC teams out of ten not eligible for the playoffs if they aren't in the SWAC Champ game. Gram and SU hog the Bayou money and usually the West div. slot....

[*****]

Oops, with the extra BCS game maybe the two postseason games isn't so exceptional after all? Who knows? mbigg, I love ya for participating here, keep it coming!

[mikebigg]

BC = Bayou Classic

Ralph...It may seem that I am Bowl oriented. Actually, I would be in favor of the DIAA playoffs but you know my concern with that matter. However, a team that doesn't get a playoff berth should be free to play in a Bowl game if invited. Just like SC State last year... that's a mighty good record to be excluded for post season play. I understand the reason for them not being selected, but it would have been nice if any team deemed worthy by a bowl could be allowed to play (especially if not selected for IAA playoffs).

[*****]

...a team that doesn't get a playoff berth should be free to play in a Bowl game if invited. Just like SC State last year...:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[Tod]

Do you think the NCAA would reject the request? Since our teams are already not participating in the playoffs wouldn't this cause the NCAA to come under heavy media criticism. Especially if it was done as a 1 time exception.

Of course this wouldn't apply if BC's losing team had only 1 or two losses. But I would prefer it being the conference Champion.

Where do you draw the line? The SWAC championship game, followed by the Bayou Classic, followed by a bowl game? What is I-AA about any of that? Perhaps we need a Division I-Doeswhatevertheywant. :eyebrow:

[*****]

The Bayou is a regular season game, like if the Brawl was held one week later. Funny about the "Division I-Doeswhatevertheywant" because that is what many SWAC folks think...

[mikebigg]

Where do you draw the line? The SWAC championship game, followed by the Bayou Classic, followed by a bowl game? What is I-AA about any of that? Perhaps we need a Division I-Doeswhatevertheywant. :eyebrow:

C'mon Tod don't take the narrow perspective on this. It doesn't have to be the SWAC. Say the opportunity was there for any team that didn't make the Playoffs but had an impressive enuff record to garner an invite. Imagine a three way tie in the Big Sky where Montana, Montana State, Portland State all had 9-2 or better overall records and only 1 conference loss. All three might not get an NCAA bid... shouldn't they be allowed to play in a Bowl game if invited?

As far as the SWAC is concerned, the NCAA has already drawn the line. Because we don't have the required number of teams available for the playoff date, we do not get an auto bid. The NCAA can still select a SWAC team to play, but chooses not too.

[*****]

... The NCAA can still select a SWAC team to play, but chooses not too.C'mon Mike... Name a SWAC team available that should have got a playoff bid in recent years. Naw.

[mikebigg]

C'mon Mike... Name a SWAC team available that should have got a playoff bid in recent years. Naw.

I understand that..and I agree.

But I started a thread on TSPN about who has priority, the SWAC or the NCAA if an "available" team wins the East of West Division. In other words, if the East winner is anyone other than Bama State and the West winner is anyone other than the two BC teams... If the NCAA selects a team, does that team have the option to decline.

[*****]

...But I started a thread on TSPN about who has priority, the SWAC or the NCAA if an "available" team wins the East of West Division. In other words, if the East winner is anyone other than Bama State and the West winner is anyone other than the two BC teams... If the NCAA selects a team, does that team have the option to decline.Dooley (then a SWAC official- now an official at TN St) told me this summer that they have to play in the SWAC Champ game. They can't accept a playoff bid, hence they won't be asked.

[Catmendue2]

Is the SWAC Championship game any different than the SEC, Big 12 and even the ACC playing after the regular season and thus playing for a BCS big payday in January. We all suppose to be Division 1 you know.


This is actually what is about to happen as more 1-AA teams and conferences are going to start up championship games and find tie-ends to support bowl games.

[Mr. Tiger]

Division I-AA teams can't qualify for bowl games because they won't have enough Division I-A wins. That rule hasn't changed.

[Mr. C]

Catmendue beat me to the punch. The NCAA was in a Catch 22 with regards to the league championship games in I-A. There was a loophole that allowed these teams to split into divisions and play a championship game with impunity. I don't know why the NCAA views the SWAC championship game as a "postseason game" that is any different than the I-A league championship games. I see no reason why that SWAC teams shouldn't be allowed to play another postseason game, if the I-As can.

Also, Mr. Tiger, what is your documentation for your statement on the rules not changing? If the rules hadn't changed, you wouldn't see all of these I-As playing I-AAs this season.

[eaglesrthe1]

Catmendue beat me to the punch. The NCAA was in a Catch 22 with regards to the league championship games in I-A. There was a loophole that allowed these teams to split into divisions and play a championship game with impunity. I don't know why the NCAA views the SWAC championship game as a "postseason game" that is any different than the I-A league championship games. I see no reason why that SWAC teams shouldn't be allowed to play another postseason game, if the I-As can.

Also, Mr. Tiger, what is your documentation for your statement on the rules not changing? If the rules hadn't changed, you wouldn't see all of these I-As playing I-AAs this season.

I think that the rule is still the same, except that with the 12 game season schools can count a win against a IAA every year, instead of every 4th year towards the 6 win plateau. This should pretty much do away with the risk of there not being enough IA teams to fill all of the bowl slots. Not only do they have an extra game to play to reach 6 wins... they can count 4X as many games against IAA competition.

IAA's aren't eligible for bowls, AFAIK.

P.S. Here is the NCAA rule.
9
Deserving Winning Team
A deserving winning team is defined as one that wins a minimum of six games
against Division I-A competition and has a record that includes more wins than losses.
[Exception:Each year,a Division I-A institution may count a victory against a Division
I-AA opponent that has averaged 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of
grants-in-aid per year in Division I-AA football over a rolling two-year period.Only a
conference champion may seek a waiver of these requirements.

[*****]

A couple more pertinent bylaws:
18.7.1 Permissible Football Games
The only football games in which a member institution may compete are:
(a) Games scheduled as to the identity of a participating college before the beginning of the regular football season of the institution for any academic year, including not only games for which the identity of one participating college is known, but also one for which the institution's opponent is not known at the time of scheduling;
(b) Any football game scheduled between two colleges [which is to be played on a common and regular open date (as defined in Bylaw 18.02.3) of their regular football seasons, on the campus or in the regular playing stadium of either team], even if it is scheduled after the beginning of either participant's football season;
(c) Games that are part of the NCAA championships for Division I-AA members;
(d) Games that are part of the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics football championships;
(e) A conference championship game on an open date during the traditional fall season, provided the game is played (as opposed to scheduled) the week prior to the first round of an NCAA football championship date and provided the game is listed on the schedules of all conference members; and
(f) Licensed postseason bowl games that meet all requirements and conditions set forth in Bylaw 30.9. (Revised: 2/1/05)

17.11.5.2 Annual Exemptions
The maximum number of football contests shall exclude the following:
(a) Spring Game.
(b) Heritage Bowl.
(c) Twelve-Member Conference Championship Game.
(d) Division I-AA Conference Tournament. In Division I-AA, a conference-sponsored, season-ending postseason tournament (i.e., one between teams that are not identified until the end of the preceding regular season), not to exceed one contest for any member institution. This provision does not preclude a Division I-AA institution from participating in a conference-sponsored, season-ending postseason tournament and additional postseason football opportunities (e.g., NCAA Championship, Heritage Bowl) during the same season; (Adopted: 1/16/93 effective 8/1/93; Revised: 1/13/98 effective 8/1/98, 2/16/00)
(e) Bowl Games.
(f) NCAA Championships.
(g) NCAA Championship Play-In Competition.
(h) NAIA Championships.
(i) Gridiron Classic.
(j) Foreign Tour.
(k) Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico.
(l) Celebrity Sports Activity.

[eaglesrthe1]

As far as the SWAC is concerned, the NCAA has already drawn the line. Because we don't have the required number of teams available for the playoff date, we do not get an auto bid. The NCAA can still select a SWAC team to play, but chooses not too.

The reason that the SWAC doesn't get an auto bid is because the auto bid is for conference champs...or co-champs...and the SWAC can't guarantee that the auto bid winner would be available.

[EKU05]

Oops, with the extra BCS game maybe the two postseason games isn't so exceptional after all? Who knows? mbigg, I love ya for participating here, keep it coming!

The extra BCS game doesn't mean two postseason games for any team. It will simply be like an extra bowl at one of the 4 BCS Bowl sites, but the teams that play in will now play in another bowl...that will be their bowl. The Whole idea of it was to create two extra slots in the BCS Bowls so that teams from non-BCS conferences have an increased chance of getting in (even though everyone knows it won't work out that way).

But what about the teams in conferences like the SEC, ACC, and C-USA, etc. that play in a conference title game before their bowl game. That conference title game would be a 13th game beyond the 12 game limit....so isn't that two post-season games.

Edit: Ok, I posted that before I got all the way to the last page of the thread, but it still goes to show there is some wiggle room. But at the end of the day, I don't see how a I-AA team with, at most, one win over a I-A team would trump a I-A team with 4 or 5 of them (in the minds of the NCAA). I think I-AA teams in Bowls is kind of a non-issue.

[eaglesrthe1]

The extra BCS game doesn't mean two postseason games for any team. It will simply be like an extra bowl at one of the 4 BCS Bowl sites, but the teams that play in will now play in another bowl...that will be their bowl. The Whole idea of it was to create two extra slots in the BCS Bowls so that teams from non-BCS conferences have an increased chance of getting in (even though everyone knows it won't work out that way).

But what about the teams in conferences like the SEC, ACC, and C-USA, etc. that play in a conference title game before their bowl game. That conference title game would be a 13th game beyond the 12 game limit....so isn't that two post-season games.

Those teams are granted an exemption, if the conference is under contract for the conference champ to represent at a bowl, as most conference champs are.

[*****]

This provision does not preclude a Division I-AA institution from participating in a conference-sponsored, season-ending postseason tournament and additional postseason football opportunities (e.g., NCAA Championship, Heritage Bowl) during the same seasonDoes this mean that the regular season MEAC and SWAC champs could go to the playoffs and then play in their conference championship game and Heritage Bowl after playoffs?

November/December Playoffs
MEAC and/or SWAC

January
1. MEAC Champ Game
2. SWAC Champ Game
3. Winners meet in the Heritage Bowl

:eek:

[Catmendue2]

Does this mean that the regular season MEAC and SWAC champs could go to the playoffs and then play in their conference championship game and Heritage Bowl after playoffs?

November/December Playoffs
MEAC and/or SWAC

January
1. MEAC Champ Game
2. SWAC Champ Game
3. Winners meet in the Heritage Bowl

:eek:


Come on spill the beans, where you going with this. I think I know, but I will wait for your explanation

[*****]

Come on spill the beans, where you going with this. I think I know, but I will wait for your explanationI was thinking of maximizing postseasons for the two conferences. Obviously SU, Gram and ASU are still not playoff bound but if the SWAC regular season champ(s) were not any of those three teams then boom, playoffs they go and still play in the champ game and possibly the Heritage Bowl. The MEAC, playoffs they go and still play in the champ game and possibly the Heritage Bowl. Maybe make the conf. champ game and Heritage Bowl part of all member's season ticket package too? What do you think?

[Catmendue2]

I was thinking of maximizing postseasons for the two conferences. Obviously SU, Gram and ASU are still not playoff bound but if the SWAC regular season champ(s) were not any of those three teams then boom, playoffs they go and still play in the champ game and possibly the Heritage Bowl. The MEAC, playoffs they go and still play in the champ game and possibly the Heritage Bowl. Maybe make the conf. champ game and Heritage Bowl part of all member's season ticket package too? What do you think?



That's the exact senario that is being explored IMHO. The object is for the MEAC and SWAC to have a revenue producing event to end the season, with both conference's champs participating. Nothing more than what the Challange is offering us to start the season.

[*****]

Make the conf champ games a double header on New Year's Day (or some non-conflicting with the Sugar Bowl date) and the Heritage Bowl two week's later?

[Catmendue2]

Make the conf champ games a double header on New Year's Day (or some non-conflicting with the Sugar Bowl date) and the Heritage Bowl two week's later?



I think a XMAS eve date for the Conference Championships, and the HB to follow a week later in New Orleans prior to the Sugar bowl. These dates would not conflict to much with TV broadcasting arrangements.

[*****]

Maybe they'll move the playoffs after that Thanksgiving weekend so that all the SWAC teams could play for the NCAA title? Maybe add a CAA champ game after the playoffs too, play it in Newark? I know, dreaming again... :(

[mikebigg]

The best scenario (in my opinion) is to scrap the SCG and have the regular season team with the better overall record (especially since we have a 9 game mandate) declared the conference champion. If a SWAC team is chosen for the playoffs they can participate and after the seaon have a bowl game against the MEAC (but that's a lot of dayum games).