SoCon set to 'get specific' on additions (Times Free Press)

[chattanoogamocs]

Southern Conference commissioner John Iamarino said it's time for the league to get "specific" and "make some decisions" about possible new members.

Iamarino and the SoCon's athletic directors are meeting today and Wednesday in Charlotte, N.C. It will be their first get-together since the College of Charleston announced in late November that it was leaving to join the Colonial Athletic Association.

"I think we're going to really get specific about potential expansion candidates," Iamarino said. "I need to hear from this group what their thoughts are -- who we're looking for, what the right number should be, are we ready to expand or do we need more time to sift things through?

"We've reached the point where we have to make some decisions, so I hope we'll start that process with the athletic directors."

Iamarino told the Times Free Press in December that the league would not be adding any schools for the 2013-14 school year.

Along with finding a replacement for the Cougars, the SoCon likely soon will have to find schools to replace Georgia Southern and Appalachian State, who continue to seek spots in a Football Bowl Subdivision conference. Both schools are often mentioned as possible additions to the Sun Belt.

Iamarino said the SoCon doesn't have to wait for another member to leave before acting.

"I do think we need to say, "OK, if X, Y and Z moves are in our best interest, long term, then I think we need to look at them regardless of the situation with App State and Georgia Southern," he said.

One possible addition to the SoCon could be a former member, East Tennessee State.

REST OF THE ARTICLE: http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/jan/29/socon-set-to-get-specific-on-additions/

[Tubakat2014]

Glad the SoCon doesn't have their collective heads in the sand like one or two of the FBS conferences did. Conference realignment seems to be a lot like chess- if you're not thinking a couple moves ahead, you'll be dead meat.

ETSU seems to be a good bet, how about Coastal Carolina as well? Feel free to tell me that I'm clueless in this matter, because I pretty much am.

[citdog]

Glad the SoCon doesn't have their collective heads in the sand like one or two of the FBS conferences did. Conference realignment seems to be a lot like chess- if you're not thinking a couple moves ahead, you'll be dead meat.

ETSU seems to be a good bet, how about Coastal Carolina as well? Feel free to tell me that I'm clueless in this matter, because I pretty much am.

coastal carolina will never be invited to join the SoCon. just like app and pigs *** will never be invited by anyone to leave it.

[PaladinFan]

Glad the SoCon doesn't have their collective heads in the sand like one or two of the FBS conferences did. Conference realignment seems to be a lot like chess- if you're not thinking a couple moves ahead, you'll be dead meat.

ETSU seems to be a good bet, how about Coastal Carolina as well? Feel free to tell me that I'm clueless in this matter, because I pretty much am.

Coastal is not a popular choice among many of the conference schools due to a number of factors. They do, generally, have a strong athletic program.

You will probably get folks on here that will wax poetic about the balance of private and public schools. I think that is a factor, but a small one. The SoCon, like every conference, is in the business of making money. They want to expand their markets. That's why they went after Samford. That's why I think they will look to Tennessee, particularly to pick up Nashville.

[superman7515]

That's why I think they will look to Tennessee, particularly to pick up Nashville.

With football would have to be Tennessee State, without football gives you a few more options in Belmont and Lipscomb. You're not going to have any market effect at all in Nashville with teams like UT Martin or Tennessee Tech, so how important is Nashville to the SoCon? They'd have to get Tennessee State to agree to leave behind their scheduling arrangement with the OVC and play a full conference schedule, but I don't think there's any doubt the SoCon would be a step up and the arrangement has been that way since Tennessee State gave up being a 1A Independent in the early 80's, so it may very well be something they're willing to forgo.

[CID1990]

Hopefully the SoCon learned its lesson over associate members that don't play football.

[PaladinFan]

Hopefully the SoCon learned its lesson over associate members that don't play football.

I honestly believe they are going to move that way.

The SoCon, unlike a lot of "mid major" conferences, cannot hang its hat on basketball. The lions share of the basketball programs in the SoCon are not just bad, but awful. Only three teams in the entire conference have winning records.

I do think if it were just CofC and Greensboro the decision would be to boot them. Davidson, however, has deep institutional ties with a lot of the SoCon schools and I think it would be a harder sell to remove them from the conference.

[fc97]

from the gsu ad in a luncheon from sunday, the specifics about members are to address richmond and uncw approaching the conference on membership, mercer, etsu and kennesaw. coastal is not on the agenda.

and i agree with paladinfan, the socon is a business. but i disagree. they don't go to tennessee. they know they are losing georgia and will look for a way to keep it. mercer or kennesaw (or both) will be first. they could pick up none or all of the above. i hear nearly all have the 3/4 support.

[ASUMountaineer]

coastal carolina will never be invited to join the SoCon. just like app and pigs *** will never be invited by anyone to leave it.

What should we wager?

[cbarrier90]

What should we wager?

Avatar bet.

[danefan]

from the gsu ad in a luncheon from sunday, the specifics about members are to address richmond and uncw approaching the conference on membership, mercer, etsu and kennesaw. coastal is not on the agenda.

and i agree with paladinfan, the socon is a business. but i disagree. they don't go to tennessee. they know they are losing georgia and will look for a way to keep it. mercer or kennesaw (or both) will be first. they could pick up none or all of the above. i hear nearly all have the 3/4 support.


Interesting on Richmond. I can't imagine they would leave the A10 for any conference at this point, let alone the Socon, so I assume they're exploring their football options?

[Saint3333]

What should we wager?

he doesn't really believe that, just trying to get a rise out of App and GSU fans.

As for UR and UNCW, the SoCon leaders are clueless if they think they have a chance at those schools. CofC just left for the CAA which UNCW loves and UR isn't bringing basketball to the SoCon and leaving a VA based conference for a SC based conference.

[CID1990]

Interesting on Richmond. I can't imagine they would leave the A10 for any conference at this point, let alone the Socon, so I assume they're exploring their football options?

They wont leave the A-10 in basketball, but maybe football is an option. They would only come back if it was for sure that ASU and GSU were leaving. By that calculus the SoCon might also think of wooing W&M.

[PaladinFan]

from the gsu ad in a luncheon from sunday, the specifics about members are to address richmond and uncw approaching the conference on membership, mercer, etsu and kennesaw. coastal is not on the agenda.

and i agree with paladinfan, the socon is a business. but i disagree. they don't go to tennessee. they know they are losing georgia and will look for a way to keep it. mercer or kennesaw (or both) will be first. they could pick up none or all of the above. i hear nearly all have the 3/4 support.

Both interesting options. Both bring different things to the table.

Mercer has quality programs in men's basketball, baseball, and some others. I drove by their new football field the other day. Looks like a real quality place going in, but is still undersized by SoCon standards.

I don't know the first thing about Kennesaw's new program. I think they are one of the largest universities in Georgia, and certainly bring a tie into Atlanta.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

I really believe ETSU has a legitimate shot of returning to the SoCon, here's hoping the SGA Senate at ETSU is not full of rockheads.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

It's impossible to really 'get specific' until we know what is going to happen to App. and GSU. At least I hope the SoCon wouldn't make a move before then.

I don't want to see the SoCon with 10 or heaven forbid 11+ football members. Non-round-robin conference schedules suck because you will have teams like this past year's Montana State squad that win the conference title because of an easy conference schedule.

[fc97]

he doesn't really believe that, just trying to get a rise out of App and GSU fans.

As for UR and UNCW, the SoCon leaders are clueless if they think they have a chance at those schools. CofC just left for the CAA which UNCW loves and UR isn't bringing basketball to the SoCon and leaving a VA based conference for a SC based conference.

both have approached the socon. that's all i know.

[Apphole]

undersized by SoCon standards.

Well that's a laughable prospect.

Are we talking frisbee size or thimble size?

[fc97]

It's impossible to really 'get specific' until we know what is going to happen to App. and GSU. At least I hope the SoCon wouldn't make a move before then.

I don't want to see the SoCon with 10 or heaven forbid 11+ football members. Non-round-robin conference schedules suck because you will have teams like this past year's Montana State squad that win the conference title because of an easy conference schedule.

it would be stupid not to act before app and gsu leave. it would suck just as much to do things and have a non-optimal schedule. it would suck even more to have you guys bolt and leave the socon in a really bad situation. at this point, app and gsu have publicly stated their intentions and i really doubt they are going to hinder a majority intent for the conference.

[Apphole]

It's impossible to really 'get specific' until we know what is going to happen to App. and GSU. At least I hope the SoCon wouldn't make a move before then.

I don't want to see the SoCon with 10 or heaven forbid 11+ football members. Non-round-robin conference schedules suck because you will have teams like this past year's Montana State squad that win the conference title because of an easy conference schedule.

Agreed. The day Appalachian is in the same conference as "Mercer" (still not convinced this is a real school) will be a very scary moment for the program. I'm hoping for the typical reactive response from the SoCon this time. Wait for us to leave before you send the conference to absolute obscurity.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

it would be stupid not to act before app and gsu leave. it would suck just as much to do things and have a non-optimal schedule. it would suck even more to have you guys bolt and leave the socon in a really bad situation. at this point, app and gsu have publicly stated their intentions and i really doubt they are going to hinder a majority intent for the conference.

It's possible that GSU and/or ASU will get left at the curb after the major conference shifts happen. What exactly is the rush? Is the window of opportunity to acquire schools like ETSU, Mercer, Kennesaw, and UNCW going to somehow close in the next few years? They're not going if we aren't taking them.

[ASUMountaineer]

he doesn't really believe that, just trying to get a rise out of App and GSU fans.

As for UR and UNCW, the SoCon leaders are clueless if they think they have a chance at those schools. CofC just left for the CAA which UNCW loves and UR isn't bringing basketball to the SoCon and leaving a VA based conference for a SC based conference.

I know, just calling his bluff.

I would be shocked if UR and UNCW moved to the SoCon.

[walliver]

I suspect that if ASU and GSU move, it will be on very short notice, and being reactive is not a good choice. Mercer football will be in the Pioneer League for the foreseeable future and is not a short-term option. It will take several years for ETSU to restart a team.

UR approaching the SoCon is interesting, but I don't see them downgrading basketball. A football affiliation would help immediately if GSU and/or ASU leave, but I don't like the idea of schools that aren't full members.

UNC-W is particularly interesting as CofC is looking at them as a travel partner in the CAA.

[superman7515]

But UNCW doesn't help the football problem of losing App & GSU, if that is what the conference is trying to find a long term solution for.

[fc97]

But UNCW doesn't help the football problem of losing App & GSU, if that is what the conference is trying to find a long term solution for.

but the conference is trying to increase the basketball profile too. taking in quality basketball schools can do that. the conference has been trying to move to 14 members for a while now. they would be stupid to turn down quality members looking to add benefits. mercer and uncw help that. adding 1 football member then gets the conference comfortable while they wait for gsu and app to do what they want to do and gives etsu and kennesaw time to decide what they will do.

[CID1990]

Agreed. The day Appalachian is in the same conference as "Mercer" (still not convinced this is a real school) will be a very scary moment for the program. I'm hoping for the typical reactive response from the SoCon this time. Wait for us to leave before you send the conference to absolute obscurity.

I don't know much about Mercer, but SoCon membership has been good for some schools. Samford's play has improved 10-fold since entering the conference. Kennesaw State would probably be able to improve just on recruiting alone. This has historically been the case in the SoCon. It is not the only factor, but it is one.

In fact, I am old enough to remember ASU before SoCon membership, and ASU after SoCon membership. ASU benefitted greatly from the competition in the SoCon.

Changing the subject a little, I wonder why we aren't talking about Valdosta State?

[fc97]

It's possible that GSU and/or ASU will get left at the curb after the major conference shifts happen. What exactly is the rush? Is the window of opportunity to acquire schools like ETSU, Mercer, Kennesaw, and UNCW going to somehow close in the next few years? They're not going if we aren't taking them.

it could, wouldn't you say? the whole business of conference movement is so dynamic that a few weeks could close the door on things that once seemed like an impossibility.

[fc97]

I don't know much about Mercer, but SoCon membership has been good for some schools. Samford's play has improved 10-fold since entering the conference. Kennesaw State would probably be able to improve just on recruiting alone. This has historically been the case in the SoCon. It is not the only factor, but it is one.

In fact, I am old enough to remember ASU before SoCon membership, and ASU after SoCon membership. ASU benefitted greatly from the competition in the SoCon.

Changing the subject a little, I wonder why we aren't talking about Valdosta State?

eh, don't take the bait from the idiot.

why not valdosta, w georgia or n alabama? i think its a solid question.

[CID1990]

but the conference is trying to increase the basketball profile too. taking in quality basketball schools can do that. the conference has been trying to move to 14 members for a while now. they would be stupid to turn down quality members looking to add benefits. mercer and uncw help that. adding 1 football member then gets the conference comfortable while they wait for gsu and app to do what they want to do and gives etsu and kennesaw time to decide what they will do.


The SoCon has always, does now, and will always stink out loud in basketball. Bringing in schools that do not play football is not the answer. It does not make the other schools (that have to spend money on football) more competitive. The worst thing the SoCon ever did was bringing in cofc, UNCG and Davidson.

The SoCon is a football first conference. If you don't play football then you don't play. That's my two cents worth.

[Apphole]

but the conference is trying to increase the basketball profile too. taking in quality basketball schools can do that. the conference has been trying to move to 14 members for a while now. they would be stupid to turn down quality members looking to add benefits. mercer and uncw help that. adding 1 football member then gets the conference comfortable while they wait for gsu and app to do what they want to do and gives etsu and kennesaw time to decide what they will do.

Are you familiar with the current state of UNCW basketball? Their APR is even lower than their win total. Not the best time to seek them out for SoCon membership just because you want to replace Appalachian with a school in North Carolina.

[Apphole]

eh, don't take the bait from the idiot.

I'm sorry that I'm concerned with the name recognition of a potential SoCon member. There is a difference in perspective in Elon vs App regarding no-name schools joining our current conference. You guys are competing at a high level for your school size ect, but its not the same for App and GaSo fans. Personal insults only demonstrate your immaturity.

[superman7515]

but the conference is trying to increase the basketball profile too. taking in quality basketball schools can do that.

UNCW had a short run of success in the late 90's-early 00's, mostly under Jerry Wainwright. They are not historically a "quality" team, they were middle of the pack as a low-major and are now on the lower side of the mid-majors with a record just over .500, nor are they a quality team lately:
Now: 8-12
2011-12: 10-20
2010-11: 13-17
2009-10: 9-22
2008-09: 7-25

[Apphole]

UNCW had a short run of success in the late 90's-early 00's, mostly under Jerry Wainwright. They are not historically a "quality" team, they were middle of the pack as a low-major and are now on the lower side of the mid-majors with a record just over .500, nor are they a quality team lately:
Now: 8-12
2011-12: 10-20
2010-11: 13-17
2009-10: 9-22
2008-09: 7-25

Don't forget APR trouble. Buzz Peterson has inherited a MESS and it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy...

[Saint3333]

both have approached the socon. that's all i know.

UR and UNCW have approached the SoCon or the SoCon has approached them, BIG difference.

I'm missing something as UR is in a great basketball conference and a VA based football conference and UNCW is in a conference with an actually TV package that also just stole one of the top four basketball programs from the SoCon in CofC. Something doesn't add up.

If the SoCon can get UR for football, UNCW for all sports, and add Mercer or KSU that would be the best case scenario should App and GSU leave and I would applaud the SoCon leaders for being proactive. It would also mark the first time in 20+ years of them doing so.

[The Cats]

Personal insults only demonstrate your immaturity.

Says the master of personal insults.

[cmaxwellgsu]

I don't know much about Mercer, but SoCon membership has been good for some schools. Samford's play has improved 10-fold since entering the conference. Kennesaw State would probably be able to improve just on recruiting alone. This has historically been the case in the SoCon. It is not the only factor, but it is one.

In fact, I am old enough to remember ASU before SoCon membership, and ASU after SoCon membership. ASU benefitted greatly from the competition in the SoCon.

Changing the subject a little, I wonder why we aren't talking about Valdosta State?

Mercer is a private Baptist school, and while I don't know their enrollment they are pretty similar to the SoCon private schools. KSU and Mercer are both startups, so the conference is definitely taking a gamble on the quality of their football programs. They could be Old Diminion, or they could be Ga State. As far as Valdosta goes, there is no way they could move up from DII. They really have no following, and currently play in a high school team's stadium. That high school has twice the attendance of the Blazers.

[Sandlapper Spike]

One problem with both ETSU and Kennesaw State is there is no guarantee that either school is going to have a football team.

I don't really know why Richmond would have approached the SoCon, unless it is concerned about the fallout from the C7 picking off between two and five A-10 schools (which is probably going to happen).

Of course, UR may be a sleeper candidate to be one of those schools itself.

I presume Richmond rejoining the SoCon would be a tough sell to its fan base unless the A-10 situation deteriorates and the CAA implodes, but I have a hard time believing both of those things can happen. One of them might, sure. Even then there is the Patriot League as an option (though that would present other issues).

[Apphole]

Says the master of personal insults.

Shut up, ******. xsmiley_wix

But seriously, they are appropriate in certain contexts, not that one.

[asumike83]

Three things jump out at me. First, why is this the first time they have met since Charleston announced they were leaving IN NOVEMBER?

Second was this: "We have been approached by a network or two, and I want to talk [with the ADs] about whether we would be willing to compromise in order to perhaps pursue a network package," Iamarino said.

One reason the SoCon parted ways with Fox SportSouth several years ago was the flex scheduling, which led to a lack of consistent starting times for football games."

What is there to debate? Of course you should pursue a network package. The SoCon needs to get games played on TV. Not streaming internet but actual television. Get it done, the conference badly needs exposure.

Third, I think the return of ETSU would be great for the conference assuming they get football started again. They are struggling this season but have had some real good basketball teams the past few years, baseball is respectable and they have history with the majority of the schools in the SoCon.

I'd put the chances of the SoCon getting Richmond football or UNCW all-sports at about 0.1%. The CAA has a TV deal with NBC Sports, in-state rivalries for Richmond and is a better basketball conference for UNCW. Plus, they just got an excellent natural rival to join them in the CAA in Charleston while the SoCon lost one of their best basketball/baseball programs. I don't see a single benefit for either of them.

I say get ETSU back and then I'd love to see the conference pursue Coastal, Murray State or even UNC Asheville if they need a non-football member to replace C of C. Not big on Kennesaw State/Mercer but I'd definitely take Mercer of the two. If you're going to gamble on a football start-up, at least grab the one who would help basketball.

[The Cats]

Shut up, ******. xsmiley_wix

But seriously, they are appropriate in certain contexts, not that one.

as in the best defense, is a potent offense.... always attack!!!!!!

[ASUMountaineer]

Says, me, the master of personal insults.

FIFY

[PaladinFan]

I'm sorry that I'm concerned with the name recognition of a potential SoCon member. There is a difference in perspective in Elon vs App regarding no-name schools joining our current conference. You guys are competing at a high level for your school size ect, but its not the same for App and GaSo fans. Personal insults only demonstrate your immaturity.

"Name Recognition" is overrated. Perhaps the most recognizable SoCon school nationally is Davidson. Everyone else is pretty much in the gray.

App's names will perk up more ears than most, and that is directly correlated to the Michigan win. By and large, most SoCon schools are known regionally. Their brand does not exceed far beyond those geographic borders.

That's not to say people have never heard the name. I just think that pretty much every SoCon's schools name recognition is pretty much relegated to the folks that follow this level of football.

[fc97]

I'm sorry that I'm concerned with the name recognition of a potential SoCon member. There is a difference in perspective in Elon vs App regarding no-name schools joining our current conference. You guys are competing at a high level for your school size ect, but its not the same for App and GaSo fans. Personal insults only demonstrate your immaturity.

personal insults? your name is apphole for god's sake.

that aside, it depends on what you mean by name recognition. davidson is the #1 name in the conference. everyone else is a grey area. that's as far as athletics go. if you are talking institutional name recognition, then get down in line because as you move across the country the private school names are the ones that people will know more often. you move into the ne and midwest, it's elon people will know. you go into the south, it's app, the citadel, furman and wofford. you go out west, then its virtually none of us.

but, i guess if name recognition is what sells, then that says a lot on why app hasn't been taken when on the market for so long.

but, i wont convince you of this. it's all about size and image to people like you, and for that, just sounds like your making up for the lack of something else.

[fc97]

Second was this: [I]"We have been approached by a network or two, and I want to talk [with the ADs] about whether we would be willing to compromise in order to perhaps pursue a network package," Iamarino said.


i think this means, they will get basketball on tv, focusing more on davidson and less on others and probably get zero for football. the sportsouth deal was where they the socon paid for football and they got both on. i think that's where the compromise comes. people want basketball but not football on the tube.

[ASUMountaineer]

i think this means, they will get basketball on tv, focusing more on davidson and less on others and probably get zero for football. the sportsouth deal was where they the socon paid for football and they got both on. i think that's where the compromise comes. people want basketball but not football on the tube.

Define, "people."

[Apphole]

as in the best defense, is a potent offense.... always attack!!!!!!

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/signaturepics/sigpic38800_1.gif

[Apphole]

but, i wont convince you of this. it's all about size and image to people like you, and for that, just sounds like your making up for the lack of something else.

Yep. It was my tiny penis that made me attend App State. Very interesting theory.

[fc97]

Yep. It was my tiny penis that made me attend App State. Very interesting theory.

admitting it is the first step.

[Apphole]

admitting it is the first step.

It's been well established that I have the biggest swinging dick on AGS. Begone

[walliver]

Marshall fans never worried about their replacement.
VMI fans never worried about their replacement.
ETSU fans never worried about their replacement.

Why are Appy fans so concerned about their replacement? Even if the SunBelt falls through, there is always the CAA. I wonder if UR and W&M would leave if that happened.:)

[Apphole]

I wonder if UR and W&M would leave if that happened.:)

Why would they leave? xlolx

[Sandlapper Spike]

Marshall fans never worried about their replacement.
VMI fans never worried about their replacement.
ETSU fans never worried about their replacement.

Why are Appy fans so concerned about their replacement? Even if the SunBelt falls through, there is always the CAA. I wonder if UR and W&M would leave if that happened.:)

I wonder about this too. The SoCon should be expanding based on the best interests of the schools that intend to stay in the league.

If Kleinlein doesn't want to be "at the table" with Mercer or Richmond, that's his choice. That shouldn't affect what Davidson and Furman want in terms of new membership.

[CID1990]

Marshall fans never worried about their replacement.
VMI fans never worried about their replacement.
ETSU fans never worried about their replacement.

Why are Appy fans so concerned about their replacement? Even if the SunBelt falls through, there is always the CAA. I wonder if UR and W&M would leave if that happened.:)

Well, they might certainly feel they are being stalked, lol

[Eagle22]

Agreed. The day Appalachian is in the same conference as "Mercer" (still not convinced this is a real school) will be a very scary moment for the program. I'm hoping for the typical reactive response from the SoCon this time. Wait for us to leave before you send the conference to absolute obscurity.

Mercer is a real school (well, real in the sense that they've been around since 1833). Mercer has a law school and med school, so in that aspect it is more of a University that Appalachian State or Georgia Southern.

With a little over 8000 students split across three main campus areas (Atlanta, Macon and Savannah), it is frankly positioned to be a nice little addition to the SoCon. The Macon campus ... where football is going to be located ... has a sufficiently large enough student body to position itself between Wofford, Elon, Furman and Samford ...

They've sunk a nice little bit of change into their new stadium and field house, and it will instantly be in line with what Wofford, Elon, Furman and Samford offer up .... with the exception of physical seats. The Mercer stadium and field house will certainly be ahead of Samford's digs in both quality and seats.

[fc97]

It's been well established that I have the biggest swinging dick on AGS. Begone

so, my "personal attack" doesnt seem too personal now. nice try on the trolling though!

[PaladinFan]

Mercer is a real school (well, real in the sense that they've been around since 1833). Mercer has a law school and med school, so in that aspect it is more of a University that Appalachian State or Georgia Southern.

With a little over 8000 students split across three main campus areas (Atlanta, Macon and Savannah), it is frankly positioned to be a nice little addition to the SoCon. The Macon campus ... where football is going to be located ... has a sufficiently large enough student body to position itself between Wofford, Elon, Furman and Samford ...

They've sunk a nice little bit of change into their new stadium and field house, and it will instantly be in line with what Wofford, Elon, Furman and Samford offer up .... with the exception of physical seats. The Mercer stadium and field house will certainly be ahead of Samford's digs in both quality and seats.

Bingo.

[asumike83]

i think this means, they will get basketball on tv, focusing more on davidson and less on others and probably get zero for football. the sportsouth deal was where they the socon paid for football and they got both on. i think that's where the compromise comes. people want basketball but not football on the tube.

As a fan, I would not be supportive of that or any agreement that caters to one particular member, especially an associate member with ample funding that is unwilling to sponsor scholarship football to compete in the SoCon and makes a token effort at best to field a SoCon level baseball program. Getting basketball is better than nothing but we should televise the best games, particularly rivalry games. Of course, Davidson will play in a good number of those but they should get no special consideration. Purely speculation but my guess is that a Davidson-centered TV deal is part of what kept them from bolting to the CAA. In short, F*** Davidson. Pardon my French.

Speaking of other sports on TV, does anyone know whether the prospect of televising some SoCon baseball games has been considered? It is not a main revenue sport but in terms of where we stand in the larger DI landscape, baseball is where the SoCon is most relevant. We are a top 10 baseball conference and place multiple teams in the NCAA tournament nearly every season, it would be nice to get some of the big baseball match-ups televised.

[The Cats]

Mercer is a real school (well, real in the sense that they've been around since 1833). Mercer has a law school and med school, so in that aspect it is more of a University that Appalachian State or Georgia Southern.

With a little over 8000 students split across three main campus areas (Atlanta, Macon and Savannah), it is frankly positioned to be a nice little addition to the SoCon. The Macon campus ... where football is going to be located ... has a sufficiently large enough student body to position itself between Wofford, Elon, Furman and Samford ...

They've sunk a nice little bit of change into their new stadium and field house, and it will instantly be in line with what Wofford, Elon, Furman and Samford offer up .... with the exception of physical seats. The Mercer stadium and field house will certainly be ahead of Samford's digs in both quality and seats.

All of that is true, and I'd have no problem with Mercer as long as two public schools are brought in at the same time as Mercer to balance out the admittance of an additional private school and the loss of a public school (Charleston).

I would not want to trade Charleston for Mercer. If Mercer, UTC, & KSU enter at the same time, no problem, the balance is maintained.

I think some of the public schools will should start looking elsewhere if Mercer replaces Charleston. Period.

[citdog]

As a fan, I would not be supportive of that or any agreement that caters to one particular member, especially an associate member with ample funding that is unwilling to sponsor scholarship football to compete in the SoCon and makes a token effort at best to field a SoCon level baseball program. Getting basketball is better than nothing but we should televise the best games, particularly rivalry games. Of course, Davidson will play in a good number of those but they should get no special consideration. Purely speculation but my guess is that a Davidson-centered TV deal is part of what kept them from bolting to the CAA. In short, F*** Davidson. Pardon my French.

Speaking of other sports on TV, does anyone know whether the prospect of televising some SoCon baseball games has been considered? It is not a main revenue sport but in terms of where we stand in the larger DI landscape, baseball is where the SoCon is most relevant. We are a top 10 baseball conference and place multiple teams in the NCAA tournament nearly every season, it would be nice to get some of the big baseball match-ups televised.


i'd be all for a SoCon Baseball tv deal that is The Citadel Centric as we have dominated the conference in baseball the same way davidson has in hoops.

[Apphole]

i'd be all for a SoCon Baseball tv deal that is The Citadel Centric as we have dominated the conference in baseball the same way davidson has in hoops.

Until Scott Riddle beat up your whole team in the tourny. Showed y'all!

[asumike83]

i'd be all for a SoCon Baseball tv deal that is The Citadel Centric as we have dominated the conference in baseball the same way davidson has in hoops.

As a wise man once said, what happened last time we played?

[citdog]

What happened last time we played?


I believe that you defeated us. Y'all had a nice season last year. The first in about 30 years I believe.

[asumike83]

I believe that you defeated us. Y'all had a nice season last year. The first in about 30 years I believe.

We defeated you 3X in a row, actually. xrotatehx

First really nice season in a long while but it was our seventh straight year of 30+ wins, so we've been competitive in the conference in recent years. This season will be interesting, the SoCon should be pretty wide open.

[Apphole]

I believe that you defeated us. Y'all had a nice season last year. The first in about 30 years I believe.

So what you concede is: Appalachian football is to Cidadel Baseball as Cidadel Football is to Appalachian Baseball.

[asumike83]

So what you concede is: Appalachian football is to Cidadel Baseball as Cidadel Football is to Appalachian Baseball.

Almost, except we didn't just smack The Citadel around in baseball. We won the conference and played in the postseason too.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Until Scott Riddle beat up your whole team in the tourny. Showed y'all!

He had excellent speed. I've never seen anyone run away from a fight he started faster than that...

[citdog]

So what you concede is: Appalachian football is to Cidadel Baseball as Cidadel Football is to Appalachian Baseball.


We have had more good seasons in Football than you have had in Baseball.


http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/pics31/400/IS/ISGPSKNBLCVRUOD.20100530220007.gif

[Reign of Terrier]

What about SC State? They have an abundance of financial problems. would a new conference alignment help them out? Would they be interested? Would the Socon be interested? They would essentially become the SouthCarolinaConference

There are an abundance of candidates, CCU namely, Mercer, and others

[Sandlapper Spike]

What about SC State? They have an abundance of financial problems. would a new conference alignment help them out? Would they be interested? Would the Socon be interested? They would essentially become the SouthCarolinaConference

There are an abundance of candidates, CCU namely, Mercer, and others

Why would the SoCon want SC State? No new market, and a school with a host of institutional problems (to say the least). No longterm rivalries with any current SoCon school.

The hoops program isn't very good. No baseball team. Under Buddy Pough, the football program has been good until last year, but that's not nearly enough.

I'm not sure SC State would be interested in leaving its traditional MEAC rivalries behind, either.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

One problem with both ETSU and Kennesaw State is there is no guarantee that either school is going to have a football team.

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-georgia-sports/2013/01/08/ksu-football-decision-deferred/

Kennesaw State was all ready to make a press conference about it in January until the decision was "deferred", but I think football is still very, very close at Kennesaw. Makes me wonder, too, if ETSU and Kennessaw State are the two schools the SoCon is targeting and they're all trying to get their ducks in a row in terms of starting the football teams and a new conference home all together.

[fc97]

i'm hearing that up to 5 schools may be offered.

[Sandlapper Spike]

I'm not sure that when Davidson decided to remain in the SoCon, it figured the league was going to admit a large public school with a brand-new football program and a basketball program that has won a total of five games in the last 1 1/2 seasons.

I'm just not sold on Kennesaw State being inevitable or even a serious contender for a SoCon invite. The fact it can't get everyone on board with football yet makes one pause, too.

[ASUMountaineer]

I believe that you defeated us. Y'all had a nice season last year. The first in about 30 years I believe.

This sounds similar to a South Carolina college located in Charleston. xwhistlex

[ASUMountaineer]

Almost, except we didn't just smack The Citadel around in baseball. We won the conference and played in the postseason too.

^^This. xlolx

[asumike83]

We have had more good seasons in Football than you have had in Baseball.


http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/pics31/400/IS/ISGPSKNBLCVRUOD.20100530220007.gif

Depends on how you define good. ASU joined the SoCon in 1971 and the baseball program has won 6 regular season titles, 1 tournament title and made 3 NCAA appearances. The Citadel joined in 1936 and their football program has won 2 conference titles and made 3 playoff appearances.

[SU_IT_able]

The Mercer stadium and field house will certainly be ahead of Samford's digs in both quality and seats.

Not sure that's accurate...at least regarding the field house. Have you seen Samford's new field house? It's one of the nicest in the SoCon. Nothing really wrong with Samford's stadium either, it's just small.

[texcap]

he doesn't really believe that, just trying to get a rise out of App and GSU fans.

As for UR and UNCW, the SoCon leaders are clueless if they think they have a chance at those schools. CofC just left for the CAA which UNCW loves and UR isn't bringing basketball to the SoCon and leaving a VA based conference for a SC based conference.

You could have stopped there Saint. xlolx

[dgtw]

Don't forget APR trouble. Buzz Peterson has inherited a MESS and it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy...

Does he still mention playing college basketball with Michael Jordan in every interview? (I lived in Knoxville when he coached at Tennessee).

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

One problem with both ETSU and Kennesaw State is there is no guarantee that either school is going to have a football team.



In the case of ETSU, we have an active organization focused on bringing back football to campus. We have a Hall of Fame coach in Phil Fulmer who has expressed some level of interest in helping ETSU out. In fact, the SGA Senate @ ETSU is meeting to vote on the issue as I write this. Dr. Noland is planning to speak with the Board of Regents about the matter with a decision coming in a matter of weeks. In short, I would not discount ETSU just yet.

[The Cats]

i'd be all for a SoCon Baseball tv deal that is The Citadel Centric as we have dominated the conference in baseball the same way davidson has in hoops.

You talk as if Western Carolina never played in the SoCon. I'll put up the WCU record (regular season championships and tournament championships) against the Citadel any day.

[asumike83]

You talk as if Western Carolina never played in the SoCon. I'll put up the WCU record (regular season championships and tournament championships) against the Citadel any day.

Not sure about regular season but I'm pretty sure y'all have the most tournament titles in SoCon history.

[PaladinFan]

Not sure that's accurate...at least regarding the field house. Have you seen Samford's new field house? It's one of the nicest in the SoCon. Nothing really wrong with Samford's stadium either, it's just small.

Not going to speak to Samford's park, but this is Mercer's (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/05/Mercer_University_Homer_and_Ruth_Drake_Field_House .jpg)

Frankly, that building is not an investment one makes with the intention to play non-scholarship FCS ball forever.

[Eagle22]

Not sure that's accurate...at least regarding the field house. Have you seen Samford's new field house? It's one of the nicest in the SoCon. Nothing really wrong with Samford's stadium either, it's just small.

Been through both at both institutions, though of course the field/stadium at Mercer is not yet finished. Their fieldhouse is being shared with lacrosse, and it is an impressive facility. Personally, I like it 100 times more than what we have proposed to build for our new football operations building ... design wise.

Not slamming what Samford has, but Mercer's new building and stadium is easily on par with what Samford has.

I've been through pretty much all of the locker rooms, fields, stadiums and arenas of the current SoCon membership, and many past members dating back to 1992. I'm not trying to throw any flames out there, but what Mercer has built will put them squarely in the thick of being able to compete with SoCon members should they continue to pump the money toward the program.

[The Cats]

Not sure about regular season but I'm pretty sure y'all have the most tournament titles in SoCon history.

That is a nice facility.

[SU_IT_able]

easily on par with what Samford has.

The Cooney Family Field House (at Samford) is 39,000 sq. ft. The new Mercer facility is 40,000 sq. ft. Both are nice brick structures in keeping with the architectural styles of the campuses. No argument with calling them 'on par'. That's a little different than 'certainly...ahead' as you put it originally. :) Mercer's facility is a handsome edifice and I agree with you and the OP that Mercer's investment is at least on par with what I've seen around the conference and seems to be way more than what's needed for non-scholarship FB. If Mercer goes 'all in' for scholarship FB, I would have no problem welcoming them into the SoCon at some point.

[asumike83]

They do have a nice looking field house. Not sure if the seating is complete yet but does anyone know what capacity will be? The rendering looks a lot like Elon's stadium, which I have always liked: small but nice architecture and consistent with the campus.

http://www.mercerbears.com/news/stadium_art.jpg

[The Cats]

It's to be 10,000.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHicLXmyFvo

[Eagle22]

They do have a nice looking field house. Not sure if the seating is complete yet but does anyone know what capacity will be? The rendering looks a lot like Elon's stadium, which I have always liked: small but nice architecture and consistent with the campus.

http://www.mercerbears.com/news/stadium_art.jpg

I work 2 miles away from their stadium and pass it each morning on the way to work. The lower seating bowls have the concrete in, and they are still working on more form work.

It is just interesting to watch it unfold. I finished my MBA at Mercer about eight months ago, and have been watching the work progress each day since the first shovel of dirt was turned.

[Saint3333]

I believe that you defeated us. Y'all had a nice season last year. The first in about 30 years I believe.

Are we back to talking about Citadel football?

[The Cats]

I've got a question. Since Charleston is already on their way out, they would not vote on membership issues, however, with both ASU and GSU having already made announcements that they are seeking to move out of the SoCon (ASAP), will they get to vote in the upcoming membership votes?

Does anyone know for sure what the SoCon bylaws on the state?

[fc97]

charleston doesnt get a vote

gsu and app do.

[The Cats]

charleston doesnt get a vote

gsu and app do.

I don't mean this as an insult, but are you answering the question with a knowledge of the SoCon bylaws in this situation, or is the GSU & ASU answer just a swag and your opinion? My opinion would be no, but the conference does not care about my onion.

I would hope that both would not get a vote, since they will have no vested interest in a conference that have announced they are leaving.

[dgtw]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I'd say there is a difference in wanting to leave and formally reigning your membership. Since they have not yet gotten an FBS offer (and may never get one), they should have full voting rights.

[ElCid]

I work 2 miles away from their stadium and pass it each morning on the way to work. The lower seating bowls have the concrete in, and they are still working on more form work.

I am 30 minutes south. I have not been that way in a while. I may have to check it out. The only good thing about Mercer joining, atleast to me, would be it is close to see some SOCON games when I am not driving to Chucktown. They may be building some nice facilities but I think they will probably not draw big crowds. 4500 undergrads...in Macon. Not promising. Without a football heritage, it may take a while to establish a following. Too many folks would rather support the big boys in Athens or Atlanta. I actually asked a Mercer Grad engineer I work with what he thought of the football program starting. He did not even realize it was happening.

[Sandlapper Spike]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I'd say there is a difference in wanting to leave and formally reigning your membership. Since they have not yet gotten an FBS offer (and may never get one), they should have full voting rights.

That's why the league may have to wait until GSU and App leave before it actually adds schools.

[Eagle22]

I am 30 minutes south. I have not been that way in a while. I may have to check it out. The only good thing about Mercer joining, atleast to me, would be it is close to see some SOCON games when I am not driving to Chucktown. They may be building some nice facilities but I think they will probably not draw big crowds. 4500 undergrads...in Macon. Not promising. Without a football heritage, it may take a while to establish a following. Too many folks would rather support the big boys in Athens or Atlanta. I actually asked a Mercer Grad engineer I work with what he thought of the football program starting. He did not even realize it was happening.

Well, they started out with 2500 season tickets sold ... that # is now at 4500 and counting. First season excitement ? Probably. I think the turnout will be better than expected. I bought two season tickets, since my younger brother and sister both graduated from Mercer as undergrads .... they'll use them while I'm still at GSU games ... but maybe in 45 years when I'm 90 years old and don't want to travel 8 hours for an away game, I'll drive 20 minutes for a game.

I also know a lot of folks who've bought those tickets locally have no ties to the team, but support Mercer in most of its endeavors. I know many who'll buy the tickets and give them away. If they routinely put 6K in the stands I think that will be pretty good. Lamb is doing a smart thing in recruiting local kids who are decent talent. He's already signed a few kids from the Macon private schools that will ensure some local interest and ongoing news coverage.

[PaladinFan]

I am 30 minutes south. I have not been that way in a while. I may have to check it out. The only good thing about Mercer joining, atleast to me, would be it is close to see some SOCON games when I am not driving to Chucktown. They may be building some nice facilities but I think they will probably not draw big crowds. 4500 undergrads...in Macon. Not promising. Without a football heritage, it may take a while to establish a following. Too many folks would rather support the big boys in Athens or Atlanta. I actually asked a Mercer Grad engineer I work with what he thought of the football program starting. He did not even realize it was happening.

It'll take time. Most folks, I think, are excited to see the program restart, but are also wary about a schedule that includes the likes Drake, Carnegie Melon, and San Diego. Mercer has to build that tradition again, as many of their graduate students (me included) hold loyalties to other undergrad programs.

I am excited about it, though. I always enjoy small college football, and am looking forward to taking my son to his first football game this fall. Lot of Furman folks on the coaching staff and I have gotten to know a couple of the players in their first few recruiting classes.

Besides, you can't trust those engineering grads. They are a deceptive lot.

[fc97]

I don't mean this as an insult, but are you answering the question with a knowledge of the SoCon bylaws in this situation, or is the GSU & ASU answer just a swag and your opinion? My opinion would be no, but the conference does not care about my onion.

I would hope that both would not get a vote, since they will have no vested interest in a conference that have announced they are leaving.

Adam Smith, John Frierson and Jeff Hartzell talked about it last summer on some articles.

bylaws state that a school with an agreement to leave loses voting privileges but not ability to win the automatic qualifiers. any full member has voting privileges. gsu and app, even being open of their intentions, are full members with full contracts.

now, speculation on my side. i don't think app or gsu are going to get in the way and will either abstain from voting or vote with the majority.

[The Cats]

now, speculation on my side. i don't think app or gsu are going to get in the way and will either abstain from voting or vote with the majority.


Just checking, you do realize you are talking about App State and Georgia Southern?

[asumike83]

Just checking, you do realize you are talking about App State and Georgia Southern?

What would either school have to gain from keeping ETSU out of the SoCon? If a poor fit comes to a vote, they would have every right to vote against them but they wouldn't keep a good candidate out for no reason.

[ElCid]

Well, they started out with 2500 season tickets sold ... that # is now at 4500 and counting. First season excitement ? Probably. I think the turnout will be better than expected. I bought two season tickets, since my younger brother and sister both graduated from Mercer as undergrads .... they'll use them while I'm still at GSU games ... but maybe in 45 years when I'm 90 years old and don't want to travel 8 hours for an away game, I'll drive 20 minutes for a game.

I also know a lot of folks who've bought those tickets locally have no ties to the team, but support Mercer in most of its endeavors. I know many who'll buy the tickets and give them away. If they routinely put 6K in the stands I think that will be pretty good. Lamb is doing a smart thing in recruiting local kids who are decent talent. He's already signed a few kids from the Macon private schools that will ensure some local interest and ongoing news coverage.

I had not realized that. That is a promising start. Having no ties to the school, I had not followed their progress myself very closely. Sounds like they are doing all the correct things. I would be good for a couple games a year while I remain in Middle GA. And shoot, I don't want to drive 9 hours now (there and back), but I do it every Cid home for 5 years running. It is getting old, especially when we have back to back home games. I almost like when we have a game in Statesboro since it is closerxrolleyesx

[fc97]

What would either school have to gain from keeping ETSU out of the SoCon? If a poor fit comes to a vote, they would have every right to vote against them but they wouldn't keep a good candidate out for no reason.

what i'm saying is, if mercer, etsu, richmond, uncw, kennesaw or anyone else comes up with 9 votes, gsu and app aren't going to sit and just say no because they want someone that they know has no shot at coming in.

there're short timers, and i'll think they'll act either with the majority or by abstaining.

[ASUMountaineer]

Depends on how you define good. ASU joined the SoCon in 1971 and the baseball program has won 6 regular season titles, 1 tournament title and made 3 NCAA appearances. The Citadel joined in 1936 and their football program has won 2 conference titles and made 3 playoff appearances.

In other words, Citadel has done very little in 77 years for the SoCon other than be a bottom feeder in football. Duly noted.

[citdog]

In other words, Citadel has done very little in 77 years for the SoCon other than be a bottom feeder in football. Duly noted.

At least we did it whilst playing at the highest level. You can't say that.

[ASUMountaineer]

At least we did it whilst playing at the highest level. You can't say that.

Maybe. Of course, being horrible at any level means you're still horrible.

But, we've done more in 42 years than Citadel has done in 77. And, this has never happened to ASU:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NA9uQSQYiSQ/SSYvDpCYkTI/AAAAAAAABAM/EMU-LyMV3uk/s400/VMI+Cheerleader.JPG

[ASUMountaineer]

Been through both at both institutions, though of course the field/stadium at Mercer is not yet finished. Their fieldhouse is being shared with lacrosse, and it is an impressive facility. Personally, I like it 100 times more than what we have proposed to build for our new football operations building ... design wise.

Not slamming what Samford has, but Mercer's new building and stadium is easily on par with what Samford has.

I've been through pretty much all of the locker rooms, fields, stadiums and arenas of the current SoCon membership, and many past members dating back to 1992. I'm not trying to throw any flames out there, but what Mercer has built will put them squarely in the thick of being able to compete with SoCon members should they continue to pump the money toward the program.

What would you rank the facilities? I've heard WoCo's are very nice, but I've never had access to any other than ASU.

[ASUMountaineer]

I don't mean this as an insult, but are you answering the question with a knowledge of the SoCon bylaws in this situation, or is the GSU & ASU answer just a swag and your opinion? My opinion would be no, but the conference does not care about my onion.

I would hope that both would not get a vote, since they will have no vested interest in a conference that have announced they are leaving.

Neither ASU or GSU has announced that they are leaving. As a result, both institutions are full members of the SoCon, and therefore have voting rights. It's actually quite clear cut, regardless of your biased opinion.

[ASUMountaineer]

Adam Smith, John Frierson and Jeff Hartzell talked about it last summer on some articles.

bylaws state that a school with an agreement to leave loses voting privileges but not ability to win the automatic qualifiers. any full member has voting privileges. gsu and app, even being open of their intentions, are full members with full contracts.

now, speculation on my side. i don't think app or gsu are going to get in the way and will either abstain from voting or vote with the majority.

I think you are correct.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Let's back up for a minute. Why can't we consider Coastal? I thought the issue was too many schools in South Carolina, but now that CofC is gone what is the problem?

I haven't griped as much as most GSU and ASU fans about the new additions, but I kind of thought the idea was to create a balance between public and private schools and not create Patriot League South.

[citdog]

Let's back up for a minute. Why can't we consider Coastal? I thought the issue was too many schools in South Carolina, but now that CofC is gone what is the problem?

I haven't griped as much as most GSU and ASU fans about the new additions, but I kind of thought the idea was to create a balance between public and private schools and not create Patriot League South.

you haven't EARNED the right to gripe about anything the SoCon does. You both should be counting yourselves lucky you were ever invited to join. ccu will never be admitted because The Citadel and vermin don't want them. That's a good enough reason for you.

[Apphole]

you haven't EARNED the right to gripe about anything the SoCon does. You both should be counting yourselves lucky you were ever invited to join. ccu will never be admitted because The Citadel and vermin don't want them. That's a good enough reason for you.

He has just as much right to gripe as any other fan of a member institution and a hell of a lot more of a reason to.

Strom Thurman didn't get any extra votes for longevity.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Thurmond may have received a few extra votes over the years. I wouldn't put it past him.

As for griping...

He has earned the right to gripe, especially if he has ever watched SoCon officiating for Saturday basketball games. Or any games on Saturday, for that matter.

Since GSU and App plan to leave sooner rather than later, though, then I'm not sure why a consideration of Coastal Carolina matters for them, or why their opinion matters.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Thurmond may have received a few extra votes over the years. I wouldn't put it past him.

As for griping...

He has earned the right to gripe, especially if he has ever watched SoCon officiating for Saturday basketball games. Or any games on Saturday, for that matter.

Since GSU and App plan to leave sooner rather than later, though, then I'm not sure why a consideration of Coastal Carolina matters for them, or why their opinion matters.

For all we know we could be in the SoCon another 20 years.

As for what Citdog is saying, if Furman and The Citadel are the only institutions opposed to Coastal then we would have the 3/4 majority to vote them in after CofC is gone, no?

[Apphole]

He has earned the right to gripe, especially if he has ever watched SoCon officiating for Saturday basketball games. Or any games on Saturday, for that matter.
Please don't encourage a Stink fan to complain about refs. We have to put up with it every time we beat them. No need to drag that on in the off season. xlolx


Since GSU and App plan to leave sooner rather than later, though, then I'm not sure why a consideration of Coastal Carolina matters for them, or why their opinion matters.

You see, it is the latest addition to the laundry list of anti big public school practices orchestrated by this conference, to members and prospective members alike. I don't like it, but we are members until the wonderful day finally comes when we are led into the promised land of milk and honey. Until then we have a say.

[citdog]

He has just as much right to gripe as any other fan of a member institution and a hell of a lot more of a reason to.

Strom Thurman didn't get any extra votes for longevity.

it'd be nice if it REALLY worked that way.




as for 'Ol Strom?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T38dhk4tr9o

[fc97]

Let's back up for a minute. Why can't we consider Coastal? I thought the issue was too many schools in South Carolina, but now that CofC is gone what is the problem?

I haven't griped as much as most GSU and ASU fans about the new additions, but I kind of thought the idea was to create a balance between public and private schools and not create Patriot League South.

the same thing that's always been a problem with coastal. lax admissions standards compared to other socon schools, lax institutional profile, saturation in a small market already covered, ncaa violations, off the field problems in sports, low apr. this is all nothing new and has been well published. it is also a problem caa schools had with them.

for the socon, furman, the citadel, davidson and wofford don't want them. that right there prevents 3/4 vote to get in. and no one is going to vote a member in that has 1/4 of the schools opposed anyway.

[ASUMountaineer]

you haven't EARNED the right to gripe about anything the SoCon does. You both should be counting yourselves lucky you were ever invited to join. ccu will never be admitted because The Citadel and vermin don't want them. That's a good enough reason for you.

xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

it'd be nice if it REALLY worked that way.




as for 'Ol Strom?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T38dhk4tr9o

A liar and a hypocrite. What a stand-up individual he was. xsmhx

[Apphole]

the same thing that's always been a problem with coastal. lax admissions standards compared to other socon schools, lax institutional profile, saturation in a small market already covered, ncaa violations, off the field problems in sports, low apr. this is all nothing new and has been well published. it is also a problem caa schools had with them.

for the socon, furman, the citadel, davidson and wofford don't want them. that right there prevents 3/4 vote to get in. and no one is going to vote a member in that has 1/4 of the schools opposed anyway.

Most of your reasons are valid, but I just have a hard time rationalizing the whole admissions standards thing when Western Carolina and Georgia Southern are members.

[Apphole]

Recent trends will likely hold true and the SoCon will add another small private school that will lower the strength of the conference on the field and in the eyes of the public.

ETSU has an outside shot being a former member, but I would be very surprised to see another public school admitted to the SmallCon at any point in the future.

[CID1990]

You see, it is the latest addition to the laundry list of anti big public school practices orchestrated by this conference, to members and prospective members alike. I don't like it, but we are members until the wonderful day finally comes when we are led into the promised land of milk and honey. Until then we have a say.

Yes and ASU had absolutely no idea what they were getting into when they solicited membership in the SoCon.

What could possibly go wrong.... joining a conference where they were going away the largest school with little to nothing in common with the existing members other than geography? Jeez, two schools jumped ship because of ASU's membership. What else could ASU have possibly expected?

ASU has improved its athletic programs across the board since it joined the conference, and that is a function of the competition as much as anything else. If ASU had not been affiliated there would be no talk of FBS right now, so cry us all a river.

[Saint3333]

Just checking, you do realize you are talking about App State and Georgia Southern?

Western fans you may want to hold this vote while App and GSU have voting rights. Both would vote for ETSU and that would help Western.

[asumike83]

what i'm saying is, if mercer, etsu, richmond, uncw, kennesaw or anyone else comes up with 9 votes, gsu and app aren't going to sit and just say no because they want someone that they know has no shot at coming in.

there're short timers, and i'll think they'll act either with the majority or by abstaining.

Oh, I completely agree with you. I was responding the "You do realize you're talking about App/GSU?" comment suggesting that we would get in the way.

If the situation was such that we thought it would be several years before we go anywhere and a candidate that we were strongly opposed to was brought for a vote, they could vote against them but generally speaking, I don't think we would rock the boat, especially it it were VMI/ETSU.

[Saint3333]

Yes and ASU had absolutely no idea what they were getting into when they solicited membership in the SoCon.

What could possibly go wrong.... joining a conference where they were going away the largest school with little to nothing in common with the existing members other than geography? Jeez, two schools jumped ship because of ASU's membership. What else could ASU have possibly expected?

ASU has improved its athletic programs across the board since it joined the conference, and that is a function of the competition as much as anything else. If ASU had not been affiliated there would be no talk of FBS right now, so cry us all a river.

ASU when they joined the SoCon had less than 8K students. ASU was a small public school with a lot of potential, I'm grateful the SoCon members saw that. ASU has grown in terms of both athletics and academics since that time (the 70's) into a unversity of 17k+ that ranks in the top 5 public schools in the south region, a top 50 Kiplinger's Best Value university, and arguably the best overall athletic program in the SoCon.

I believe a portion of that success is due to the opportunity to join the division one ranks and thank the SoCon for that. But ASU has also helped the SoCon and its members along the way let's not forget that.

[PaladinFan]

Recent trends will likely hold true and the SoCon will add another small private school that will lower the strength of the conference on the field and in the eyes of the public.

ETSU has an outside shot being a former member, but I would be very surprised to see another public school admitted to the SmallCon at any point in the future.

I have never seen anyone with authority actually complain about the balance of publics and privates. Given that the last three schools admitted were all three private schools, the logical conclusion is that the public institutions didn't put up much of a fight.

the SoCon is about money, like every conference. While another public school might make the fanbases feel warm and toasty, they don't necessarily bring anything to the table. It's the same reason App State and Georgia Southern are still in the FCS. Conferences want institutions that will bring the bacon.

Everyone needs to stop focusing on geography and student body size and start following the money. If the SoCon indeed picks up a FoxSports TV contract again, what brings in more dollars? Another South Carolina public school in a tiny market, or a respectable private school in a big city? Answer is easy.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Most of your reasons are valid, but I just have a hard time rationalizing the whole admissions standards thing when Western Carolina and Georgia Southern are members.

Are you serious or just trolling? GSU's freshman SATs are right at where App. State's are.

As far as the bit about markets go, why do people think expanding to other markets will help us? Samford has the biggest market of any SoCon team by far and what have we really gained from that? I'd much rather get a team that has a solid all-around athletics program.

[Apphole]

I have never seen anyone with authority actually complain about the balance of publics and privates. Given that the last three schools admitted were all three private schools, the logical conclusion is that the public institutions didn't put up much of a fight.

the SoCon is about money, like every conference. While another public school might make the fanbases feel warm and toasty, they don't necessarily bring anything to the table. It's the same reason App State and Georgia Southern are still in the FCS. Conferences want institutions that will bring the bacon.

Everyone needs to stop focusing on geography and student body size and start following the money. If the SoCon indeed picks up a FoxSports TV contract again, what brings in more dollars? Another South Carolina public school in a tiny market, or a respectable private school in a big city? Answer is easy.

Yes, money. Where does the money come from? TV? If TV is the issue than OF COURSE a big public school with a big fan base is more desirable than a small private. Small private schools at this level don't have many fans, therefore, not many people want to watch them play football on TV. Where else could the money come from? Post season success? History proves that public schools have higher athletic budgets and are likely to be better programs on the field. Bringing in a public school with a higher potential of having a large fanbase/having a better team brings more to the conference's table than any small private school ever could. The imbalance in the SoCon is a product of politics and poor leadership.

How can you say geography has nothing to do with it? If you're talking about App and GaSo's delay in an FBS, distance from a major metro media market is the one and only reason. There is no way around it. The mid majors have absolutely proven this over the past year. Physical proximity to a major media market has been to bees-knees for CUSA and the SBC. They never even looked outside of top 25 markets for schools for a time. Now that there's spots to fill and no big city schools to fill them with, the trend is changing as fanbase size, facilites and athletic success are becoming major factors.

I'm not just talking from a jaded anti UNCC/GaSt point of view. It's happening everywhere. CUSA just plucked the three worst performing programs from the SunBelt. That move makes no sense at all, right? Oh wait, they're all in major markets. It is their desperate attempt to stay relevant and keep their TV deal. I don't expect the big money TV to last long though. No one wants to watch a conference full of losers.

Here's an article from a few days ago that explains the change in conference expansion montra. http://www.theadvertiser.com/article/20130127/SPORTS02/301270324?fb_comment_id=fbc_497693440281240_516051 3_498398746877376

[Apphole]

Are you serious or just trolling? GSU's freshman SATs are right at where App. State's are.
I'll let the Georgia English in that last sentence speak for itself


As far as the bit about markets go, why do people think expanding to other markets will help us? Samford has the biggest market of any SoCon team by far and what have we really gained from that? I'd much rather get a team that has a solid all-around athletics program.

Totally agree here. In reality, media market should not be a primary concern for the Southern Conference: a league that does not have a TV contract. If people want to stream a game on ESPN3, they will do so if the school is in NYC or Timbuktu.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I'll let the Georgia English in that last sentence speak for itself.

App. State's freshman SAT scores are plural noun, ergo proper subject-verb agreement dictates the right word is "are". xrulesx

[The Cats]

Thurmond may have received a few extra votes over the years. I wouldn't put it past him.

As for griping...

He has earned the right to gripe, especially if he has ever watched SoCon officiating for Saturday basketball games. Or any games on Saturday, for that matter.

Since GSU and App plan to leave sooner rather than later, though, then I'm not sure why a consideration of Coastal Carolina matters for them, or why their opinion matters.

Well, it matters to other SoCon fans, that are not leaving. CCU should top the list for consideration. Improving football & basketball programs, and an excellent baseball program, what more could you want, baseball championships second place wanna be?

[asumike83]

Well, it matters to other SoCon fans, that are not leaving. CCU should top the list for consideration. Improving football & basketball programs, and an excellent baseball program, what more could you want, baseball championships second place wanna be?

If you want CCU in the SoCon, you may want to reconsider your stance on GSU and App not deserving a vote.

[The Cats]

ASU when they joined the SoCon had less than 8K students. ASU was a small public school with a lot of potential, I'm grateful the SoCon members saw that. ASU has grown in terms of both athletics and academics since that time (the 70's) into a unversity of 17k+ that ranks in the top 5 public schools in the south region, a top 50 Kiplinger's Best Value university, and arguably the best overall athletic program in the SoCon.

I believe a portion of that success is due to the opportunity to join the division one ranks and thank the SoCon for that. But ASU has also helped the SoCon and its members along the way let's not forget that.

I seldom agree with you, but this time you're right on. Probably won't happen again for several years.

[Apphole]

App. State's freshman SAT scores are plural noun, ergo proper subject-verb agreement dictates the right word is "are". xrulesx

Ok.... Now explain the forlorn "at" in the sentence.

[The Cats]

Most of your reasons are valid, but I just have a hard time rationalizing the whole admissions standards thing when Western Carolina and Georgia Southern are members.

You best be saying that in jest.... xflaggedx

[The Cats]

If you want CCU in the SoCon, you may want to reconsider your stance on GSU and App not deserving a vote.

OK, I've reconsidered. Vote my way, and you can vote. xthumbsupx

[PaladinFan]

Yes, money. Where does the money come from? TV? If TV is the issue than OF COURSE a big public school with a big fan base is more desirable than a small private. Small private schools at this level don't have many fans, therefore, not many people want to watch them play football on TV. Where else could the money come from? Post season success? History proves that public schools have higher athletic budgets and are likely to be better programs on the field. Bringing in a public school with a higher potential of having a large fanbase/having a better team brings more to the conference's table than any small private school ever could. The imbalance in the SoCon is a product of politics and poor leadership.

How can you say geography has nothing to do with it? If you're talking about App and GaSo's delay in an FBS, distance from a major metro media market is the one and only reason. There is no way around it. The mid majors have absolutely proven this over the past year. Physical proximity to a major media market has been to bees-knees for CUSA and the SBC. They never even looked outside of top 25 markets for schools for a time. Now that there's spots to fill and no big city schools to fill them with, the trend is changing as fanbase size, facilites and athletic success are becoming major factors.

I'm not just talking from a jaded anti UNCC/GaSt point of view. It's happening everywhere. CUSA just plucked the three worst performing programs from the SunBelt. That move makes no sense at all, right? Oh wait, they're all in major markets. It is their desperate attempt to stay relevant and keep their TV deal. I don't expect the big money TV to last long though. No one wants to watch a conference full of losers.

Here's an article from a few days ago that explains the change in conference expansion montra. http://www.theadvertiser.com/article/20130127/SPORTS02/301270324?fb_comment_id=fbc_497693440281240_516051 3_498398746877376

Say we all agree on the criterion for a new invitation. The question is still one of finding an institution that fits the mold. It is all fine and good to discuss what the perfect new member would look like, but when you spread the FCS out on the page, there simply are not that many schools that fit the mold that the member institutions are that interested in. There are just not that many "big public schools" that fit the description of a SoCon program.

I like Coastal. I don't have a problem in the world with Coastal. But if the standard is locating a team with a large fan base, they are not the answer. Even Furman, with a 3-8 season, one marquee home game, and one game played in an absolute deluge still managed more fans per game than the playoff bound Chanticleers.

[asumike83]

OK, I've reconsidered. Vote my way, and you can vote. xthumbsupx

If only all elections worked that way!

[CID1990]

baseball championships second place wanna be?

That's rich coming from a WCU fan.

The Citadel has been to the CWS, as has GSU.

And both of those appearances were more recent than WCU has been at the top of, well, anything.

[Apphole]

Say we all agree on the criterion for a new invitation. The question is still one of finding an institution that fits the mold. It is all fine and good to discuss what the perfect new member would look like, but when you spread the FCS out on the page, there simply are not that many schools that fit the mold that the member institutions are that interested in. There are just not that many "big public schools" that fit the description of a SoCon program.

I like Coastal. I don't have a problem in the world with Coastal. But if the standard is locating a team with a large fan base, they are not the answer. Even Furman, with a 3-8 season, one marquee home game, and one game played in an absolute deluge still managed more fans per game than the playoff bound Chanticleers.

I definitely see what you're saying, but when you compare Coastal and Mercer in fan support (or more importantly potential for fanship) and name recognition, Coastal wins by a mile. They win by two miles if you factor in strength of athletic programs.

[Apphole]

I just don't see a rational down side to adding this team to the SoCon.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A35KGD1CUAAwzpR.jpg:large

[CID1990]

Furman, Wofford and The Citadel will never vote to admit CCU and there it is.

[PaladinFan]

I definitely see what you're saying, but when you compare Coastal and Mercer in fan support (or more importantly potential for fanship) and name recognition, Coastal wins by a mile. They win by two miles if you factor in strength of athletic programs.

You do need to recognize, though, that you really are not up to speed on Mercer.

At this point in time, yes, more folks show up to Coastal games because, well, Mercer hasn't played in 60 years. Mercer still has a quality basketball team that won the CIC post season tournament last year. Even this year they have put it on the two SoCon teams they played, and even have wins against Florida State and Alabama. They aren't some rinkadink program - they would probably win the SoCon or finish right along with Davidson. Their baseball team is also quality.

Even then, Mercer probably has as many, if not more, students than Coastal. They have campuses in Macon and Atlanta, with access to far larger markets in a football rich hotbed. They have a name coach (say what you will about Bobby Lamb, he is a name coach in the FCS). They have an extremely large almuni base as far as a private school goes.

Just because you have not heard of them, does not mean they are irrelevant.

[Apphole]

You do need to recognize, though, that you really are not up to speed on Mercer.

At this point in time, yes, more folks show up to Coastal games because, well, Mercer hasn't played in 60 years. Mercer still has a quality basketball team that won the CIC post season tournament last year. Even this year they have put it on the two SoCon teams they played, and even have wins against Florida State and Alabama. They aren't some rinkadink program - they would probably win the SoCon or finish right along with Davidson. Their baseball team is also quality.

Even then, Mercer probably has as many, if not more, students than Coastal. They have campuses in Macon and Atlanta, with access to far larger markets in a football rich hotbed. They have a name coach (say what you will about Bobby Lamb, he is a name coach in the FCS). They have an extremely large almuni base as far as a private school goes.

Just because you have not heard of them, does not mean they are irrelevant.

Fair enough regarding Mercer, but my long post earlier was intended to be more of a comparison between public and private schools as potential additions to the SoCon. Mercer vs Coastal was just the example I used.

I am asserting that politics and bad leadership explain the recent trend of adding only private schools, not some good, rational decisions by the conference. And I really don't think that trend is going to change, especially since the two biggest public schools in the conference are all but out the door and the top schools in the discussion are private.

[Saint3333]

Where's this bacon these small private schools are bringing, I must have missed that check?

It hasn't been about money, Wofford, Elon, and Samford haven't added revenue, it has been about academics. CCU didn't get in last round because of academics and some questionable recruiting (degraded certain SoCon members).

The SoCon should add the best team on the field/court they can. CCU has the best overall athletic program of the reasonable candidates. Add ETSU (if they add football), CCU, and best basketball school they can find.

[CID1990]

CCU is not coming to the SoCon. Considering the merits of CCU in terms of whether or not they would be good for the SoCon is a wasted exercise.

[ASUMountaineer]

I have never seen anyone with authority actually complain about the balance of publics and privates. Given that the last three schools admitted were all three private schools, the logical conclusion is that the public institutions didn't put up much of a fight.

the SoCon is about money, like every conference. While another public school might make the fanbases feel warm and toasty, they don't necessarily bring anything to the table. It's the same reason App State and Georgia Southern are still in the FCS. Conferences want institutions that will bring the bacon.

Everyone needs to stop focusing on geography and student body size and start following the money. If the SoCon indeed picks up a FoxSports TV contract again, what brings in more dollars? Another South Carolina public school in a tiny market, or a respectable private school in a big city? Answer is easy.

If this is the case, then why is it that since the SoCon added the BIG Birmingham media market the SoCon has gone from games being broadcast on SportSouth, to PBS (not throughout the footprint), to online-only ESPN3? If the SoCon was looking for a boost in TV revenue (or a TV contract at all) by adding the biggest market in the conference, then that plan failed miserably.

I agree that many conferences are focused on large media markets to increase their TV contracts and subsequent revenue. The difference is that those conferences actually have TV contracts and will be in a position to maintain a TV contract. The SoCon, apparently, is incapable of doing so.

[Apphole]

CCU is not coming to the SoCon. Considering the merits of CCU in terms of whether or not they would be good for the SoCon is a wasted exercise.

Exactly, and nothing but politics and bad leadership are to blame.

[ASUMountaineer]

Where's this bacon these small private schools are bringing, I must have missed that check?

It hasn't been about money, Wofford, Elon, and Samford haven't added revenue, it has been about academics. CCU didn't get in last round because of academics and some questionable recruiting (degraded certain SoCon members).

The SoCon should add the best team on the field/court they can. CCU has the best overall athletic program of the reasonable candidates. Add ETSU (if they add football), CCU, and best basketball school they can find.

I agree, and it seems quite clear. Since the SoCon added the BIG Birmingham media market the SoCon has gone from games being broadcast on SportSouth, to PBS, to online-only ESPN3.

[ASUMountaineer]

Well, it matters to other SoCon fans, that are not leaving. CCU should top the list for consideration. Improving football & basketball programs, and an excellent baseball program, what more could you want, baseball championships second place wanna be?

As far as we know, neither ASU or GSU are leaving? Do you know otherwise?

Your hatred of all things ASU is blinding you to reality...again.

[chattownmocs]

It's amazing to watch app staters bash the socon. You are the reason the socon's profile has dropped. You were supposed to be carrying this conference. Now you are an also-ran on the national stage.

[WH49er]

It's amazing to watch app staters bash the socon. You are the reason the socon's profile has dropped. You were supposed to be carrying this conference. Now you are an also-ran on the national stage.



xpopcornx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Ok.... Now explain the forlorn "at" in the sentence.

Bah...who cares about the SAT writing. xblehx All that matters is the math and verbal (the latter is a vocabulary test). xthumbsupx

[ASUMountaineer]

It's amazing to watch app staters bash the socon. You are the reason the socon's profile has dropped. You were supposed to be carrying this conference. Now you are an also-ran on the national stage.

xlolx

[Apphole]

It's amazing to watch app staters bash the socon. You are the reason the socon's profile has dropped. You were supposed to be carrying this conference. Now you are an also-ran on the national stage.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuqAGjFAQX8

[asumike83]

It's amazing to watch app staters bash the socon. You are the reason the socon's profile has dropped. You were supposed to be carrying this conference. Now you are an also-ran on the national stage.

xlolx

Good thing they weren't relying on Chatty to carry them after they fielded the most talented team in the FCS for 3 years running. The SoCon would have folded by now!

[chattownmocs]

xlolx

Good thing they weren't relying on Chatty to carry them after they fielded the most talented team in the FCS for 3 years running. The SoCon would have folded by now!

You scrubs recycle the same material all day long. Get an original thought.

[Apphole]

You scrubs recycle the same material all may long. Get an original thought.

It's still January, man. And until Chatty stops sucking, people are going to talk about Chatty sucking. That's just the way of the world, little guy.

[asumike83]

You scrubs recycle the same material all may long. Get an original thought.

I hope the irony of this post is not lost on you, coming from the guy who's talked the exact same smack and made the exact same incorrect predictions for three offseasons running.

Seriously, you could copy and paste your posts from a year ago, replace 'Moore' with 'Satterfield' and 'T-Rob' with 'Huesman' and you'd have almost exactly what you're posting now. Hopefully you will make some adjustments to your 'fluke' and 'bad luck' posts before UTC's next 6-5 finish. You've got about 10 months to ponder it.

[The Cats]

That's rich coming from a WCU fan.

The Citadel has been to the CWS, as has GSU.

And both of those appearances were more recent than WCU has been at the top of, well, anything.

Refresh my memory, just how many SoCon Baseball Championships has The Citadel won since they entered the Southern Conference?

[CID1990]

Refresh my memory, just how many SoCon Baseball Championships has The Citadel won since they entered the Southern Conference?

8 tourney championships since 1990 and one trip to the CWS.

WCU has won 4 in the same time.

In total, WCu has won 9 all time, The Citadel has won 8.

But for that matter, WCU once went to the I-AA championship in football, too.

You are hardly in a position to call names and claim that The Citadel is a "baseball championships second place wanna be".

How many CWS has WCU been to?

[The Cats]

8 tourney championships since 1990 and one trip to the CWS.

WCU has won 4 in the same time.

In total, WCu has won 9 all time, The Citadel has won 8.

But for that matter, WCU once went to the I-AA championship in football, too.

You are hardly in a position to call names and claim that The Citadel is a "baseball championships second place wanna be".

How many CWS has WCU been to?

Western Carolina - Joined the SoCon 1976
11 time Southern Conference Regular Season Champion
9 time Southern Conference Baseball Tournament Champion
11 NCAA Tournament Appearances: 85, 86, 87, 89, 92, 93, 94, 97, 03, 07



The Citadel - Joined the SoCon 1936 -
How many you got??????? -baseball championships second place wanna be!!!! or is that "first place wanna be?

[GlassOnion]

And, as this is a football board...

The Citadel + Western = 0 National Championships.

Most impressive sirs, most impressive.

[The Cats]

And, as this is a football board...

The Citadel + Western = 0 National Championships.

Most impressive sirs, most impressive.


Touché - but WCU has been to the Championship Game. xnodx

[GlassOnion]

Touché - but WCU has been to the Championship Game. xnodx

Youre right. Yikes. Too bad for Citdog, all that hot air, and not much to boast about.

[CID1990]

Western Carolina - Joined the SoCon 1976
11 time Southern Conference Regular Season Champion
9 time Southern Conference Baseball Tournament Champion
11 NCAA Tournament Appearances: 85, 86, 87, 89, 92, 93, 94, 97, 03, 07



The Citadel - Joined the SoCon 1936 -
How many you got??????? -baseball championships second place wanna be!!!! or is that "first place wanna be?

I'm still trying to figure out why you felt the need to respond to a perfectly benign post from Spike by calling names.

As for WCU's baseball dominance it is not that much more impressive than The Citadel's. And El Cid's major successes are more recent. Hardly a wannabe, but stroke yourself if you like. I wouldn't want to deny you the one thing WCU has to crow about, even though it all happened before you were out of diapers.

[CID1990]

Touché - but WCU has been to the Championship Game. xnodx

Were you even born then?

We actually WON at the CWS while I was in college.

[walliver]

It is interesting that people are suggesting that ETSU and VMI return together, especially since ETSU was adamant about running VMI out of the conference.

I suspect ETSU will be brought in to placate WCU and UTC. WCU doesn't have a lot of options, but UTC could always go to the OVC.
CCU has a lot of opposition, primarily FU and The Citadel and would be an outside shot.
Mercer would keep us in the Georgia market and is a relatively safe bet.
Kennesaw State seems like a big gamble. I don't know if football will really take off there.
VMI gives everyone a homecoming opponent, but its athletic programs have deteriorated further in the Big South.

One strong factor favoring ETSU and Mercer, is that neither school is ready to play football now. ETSU in 2015 at the earliest and Mercer is starting off non-scholarship. As a result, if ASU and GSU do not get an immediate invitation to move, we will not be stuck with more than 9 teams and the hassles that come with that. There is also the possibility that the SBC might chose only one of the two.

[CID1990]

For the record:

13 regular season championships (12 since WCU joined the SoCon)

8 tournament championships

13 NCAA tournament appearances (12 since WCU joined) Our record in the NCAAs is 16-27.

1 CWS appearance, along with 1 CWS win

[CID1990]

It is interesting that people are suggesting that ETSU and VMI return together, especially since ETSU was adamant about running VMI out of the conference.

I suspect ETSU will be brought in to placate WCU and UTC. WCU doesn't have a lot of options, but UTC could always go to the OVC.
CCU has a lot of opposition, primarily FU and The Citadel and would be an outside shot.
Mercer would keep us in the Georgia market and is a relatively safe bet.
Kennesaw State seems like a big gamble. I don't know if football will really take off there.
VMI gives everyone a homecoming opponent, but its athletic programs have deteriorated further in the Big South.

One strong factor favoring ETSU and Mercer, is that neither school is ready to play football now. ETSU in 2015 at the earliest and Mercer is starting off non-scholarship. As a result, if ASU and GSU do not get an immediate invitation to move, we will not be stuck with more than 9 teams and the hassles that come with that. There is also the possibility that the SBC might chose only one of the two.

I understand why VMI left, but it was a bad decision, IMO. They have a lot to contribute, but they fell victim to that fallacy that military schools cannot compete against regular schools in football. Get the right coach and recruiter and it doesn't matter what kind of a school you are.

I'd live to see them come back. ETSU as well.

[citdog]

For the record:

13 regular season championships (12 since WCU joined the SoCon)

8 tournament championships

13 NCAA tournament appearances (12 since WCU joined) Our record in the NCAAs is 16-27.

1 CWS appearance, along with 1 CWS win


Cadet Anthony Jenkins slides in with the winning run against Cal St Fullerton in Omaha.


http://www.postandcourier.com/storyimage/CP/20100627/PC20/306279917/AR/0/AR-306279917.jpg&q=100&maxW=646

[seantaylor]

That's rich coming from a WCU fan.

The Citadel has been to the CWS, as has GSU.

And both of those appearances were more recent than WCU has been at the top of, well, anything.

GSU has been twice.

[fc97]

Fair enough regarding Mercer, but my long post earlier was intended to be more of a comparison between public and private schools as potential additions to the SoCon. Mercer vs Coastal was just the example I used.

I am asserting that politics and bad leadership explain the recent trend of adding only private schools, not some good, rational decisions by the conference. And I really don't think that trend is going to change, especially since the two biggest public schools in the conference are all but out the door and the top schools in the discussion are private.

this keeps coming up from app fans. why do app fans think that the trend of adding private schools has anything to do with the conference. the presidents make the choices, not the conference or leadership

truth
1 of 1 last addition was private - samford
2 of 2 last additions were private - elon
2 of 3 last additions were private - charleston
2 of 4 last additions were private - uncg
3 of 5 last additions - wofford
3 of 6 - georgia southern
3 of 7 - etsu
3 of 8, 9, 10 - western, utc, marshall
3 of 11 - app
3 of 12 - ecu
3 of 13 - west virginia

since, well, 1950

in that same time, marshall (public) moved up. etsu (public) dropped football and lied to the conference and were kicked out. vmi (public) left on their own.

so you're a conference of schools, a mixed bag, you want long term stability and only all sports members, who do you take over elon and samford that all the members go for? because that knocks out jacksonville state, liberty and coastal right there. there are no other viable public schools with football in d-i in the area that would jump except tennessee tech or eastern kentucky, and they have their own budget problems.

[elcid83]

Apphole, Did you ever give any consideration that it may have more to do with the size of your student body than the privacy of your admission requirements. App. State at 15,000+ undergrads and Georgia Southern at 18,000 undergrads are simply too large for the Southern Conference. Clemson U has a little under 17,000 undergrads. [All numbers come from Wikipedia btw]

Maybe the powers that be at the SOCON are looking for a conference with a more level playing field and the only way they can do it is by seeking out private schools.

[fc97]

the funny thing is, even if the conference had taken jacksonville state and eastern kentucky, not kicked out etsu and vmi had stayed; app and gsu fans would still be complaining that fcs is small beans and be looking to leave.

[ASUMountaineer]

this keeps coming up from app fans. why do app fans think that the trend of adding private schools has anything to do with the conference. the presidents make the choices, not the conference or leadership

truth
1 of 1 last addition was private - samford
2 of 2 last additions were private - elon
2 of 3 last additions were private - charleston
2 of 4 last additions were private - uncg
3 of 5 last additions - wofford
3 of 6 - georgia southern
3 of 7 - etsu
3 of 8, 9, 10 - western, utc, marshall
3 of 11 - app
3 of 12 - ecu
3 of 13 - west virginia

since, well, 1950

in that same time, marshall (public) moved up. etsu (public) dropped football and lied to the conference and were kicked out. vmi (public) left on their own.

so you're a conference of schools, a mixed bag, you want long term stability and only all sports members, who do you take over elon and samford that all the members go for? because that knocks out jacksonville state, liberty and coastal right there. there are no other viable public schools with football in d-i in the area that would jump except tennessee tech or eastern kentucky, and they have their own budget problems.

I think many fans are aware of the past, and most don't have an issue with private schools in general--even being in the SoCon. The concern is that the SoCon seems to favor private schools. Maybe this is out of necessity as you suggest, maybe it is because the leadership prefers to be associated with more like-minded schools (schools similar in size and mission). Both of which are valid reasons for the SoCon's leadership to place a higher value on supporting the private schools, if they are.

However, in a later post you complain about ASU and GSU wanting to leave the SoCon even if the SoCon had added mostly public schools. Maybe, but mostly for the reasons I mentioned about the SoCon favoring private schools: necessity and being associated with like-minded schools. To me, it seems that the private schools and ASU/GSU have the same goals but require two different outcomes. Looking at it this way, there seems to be little reason for animosity on either side.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm still trying to figure out why you felt the need to respond to a perfectly benign post from Spike by calling names.

As for WCU's baseball dominance it is not that much more impressive than The Citadel's. And El Cid's major successes are more recent. Hardly a wannabe, but stroke yourself if you like. I wouldn't want to deny you the one thing WCU has to crow about, even though it all happened before you were out of diapers.

It's his MO. He has just, for the time being, turned his pettiness away from the "Boone Goons" to El Cid. He likes to bait people, and then act upset when someone calls him out. You should venture over to the West Carolina message board and see him in action, it is hilarious.

[ASUMountaineer]

Western Carolina - Joined the SoCon 1976
11 time Southern Conference Regular Season Champion
9 time Southern Conference Baseball Tournament Champion
11 NCAA Tournament Appearances: 85, 86, 87, 89, 92, 93, 94, 97, 03, 07



The Citadel - Joined the SoCon 1936 -
How many you got??????? -baseball championships second place wanna be!!!! or is that "first place wanna be?

How mature and civil of you. xcoffeex

[citdog]

I think many fans are aware of the past, and most don't have an issue with private schools in general--even being in the SoCon. The concern is that the SoCon seems to favor private schools. Maybe this is out of necessity as you suggest, maybe it is because the leadership prefers to be associated with more like-minded schools (schools similar in size and mission). Both of which are valid reasons for the SoCon's leadership to place a higher value on supporting the private schools, if they are.

However, in a later post you complain about ASU and GSU wanting to leave the SoCon even if the SoCon had added mostly public schools. Maybe, but mostly for the reasons I mentioned about the SoCon favoring private schools: necessity and being associated with like-minded schools. To me, it seems that the private schools and ASU/GSU have the same goals but require two different outcomes. Looking at it this way, there seems to be little reason for animosity on either side.


MOST of your 'fans' have no memory of anything before the michigan game.

[CID1990]

You should venture over to the West Carolina message board and see him in action, it is hilarious.

I'll bet the other two guys on there just love him.

[ASUMountaineer]

MOST of your 'fans' have no memory of anything before the michigan game.

Do you have any, I don't know, actual thoughts on my post. I expect better than weak smack from you Citdog...The Cats is bringing it better than you are right now.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'll bet the other two guys on there just love him.

xlolx

[PaladinFan]

I think many fans are aware of the past, and most don't have an issue with private schools in general--even being in the SoCon. The concern is that the SoCon seems to favor private schools. Maybe this is out of necessity as you suggest, maybe it is because the leadership prefers to be associated with more like-minded schools (schools similar in size and mission). Both of which are valid reasons for the SoCon's leadership to place a higher value on supporting the private schools, if they are.

However, in a later post you complain about ASU and GSU wanting to leave the SoCon even if the SoCon had added mostly public schools. Maybe, but mostly for the reasons I mentioned about the SoCon favoring private schools: necessity and being associated with like-minded schools. To me, it seems that the private schools and ASU/GSU have the same goals but require two different outcomes. Looking at it this way, there seems to be little reason for animosity on either side.

As I've said on here numerous times, the SoCon is mostly made up of public institutions. Even with the loss of CofC, there are still more public schools. You're right though, there is no reason for that to be a concern.

I realize that most of the public schools do not fit the "directional state school" mold of GSU and ASU. But I think that is more a product of where we are, not an intention to make the SoCon a playboy league. The Big Sky and CAA, for example, are largely made up schools that consist of the largest universities in their respective states. There is just a saturation of football programs here, and the private schools are every bit as good in most cases as their public counterparts.

I just don't necessarily think that means a lot in terms of conference expansion. We've seen from Wofford, Elon, and Samford that teams can come in, and after a few years, can play a really high level of football. Understanding that, find universities that have their crap together from the top down, with the understanding that they may be awful for a few years, but odds are that they will eventually be an asset of the conference.

[Saint3333]

Is Appalachian a direction?

N, S, E, W, God's Country, well I guess it is.

[walliver]

There aren't many large public schools in the SoCon footprint to add, and most of them have FBS aspirations.

CCU is much smaller than ASU and GSU, and has issues with several SoCon schools.
Jax State wants to go FBS.
Liberty wants to go FBS.
EKU is a geographic outlier, and I don't see why they would want to join a SoCon that their nearest neighbor (ASU) was begging to leave.
SC State is a financial disaster and enrollment is dropping.
VMI is public, but like the Citadel, fits in more with the privates.
ETSU won't have a team until 2015 at the earliest.

[ASUMountaineer]

As I've said on here numerous times, the SoCon is mostly made up of public institutions. Even with the loss of CofC, there are still more public schools. You're right though, there is no reason for that to be a concern.

I realize that most of the public schools do not fit the "directional state school" mold of GSU and ASU. But I think that is more a product of where we are, not an intention to make the SoCon a playboy league. The Big Sky and CAA, for example, are largely made up schools that consist of the largest universities in their respective states. There is just a saturation of football programs here, and the private schools are every bit as good in most cases as their public counterparts.

I just don't necessarily think that means a lot in terms of conference expansion. We've seen from Wofford, Elon, and Samford that teams can come in, and after a few years, can play a really high level of football. Understanding that, find universities that have their crap together from the top down, with the understanding that they may be awful for a few years, but odds are that they will eventually be an asset of the conference.

Right. I don't know that the SoCon leadership favors private schools. I do have little faith in Iamarino's abilities to lead the conference, but that's neither here nor there. The point of my post was to lay out that IF the SoCon was trending towards smaller, private schools then that would suggest that they are possibly doing it out of necessity and out of a desire to have a conference of like-minded institutions. These reasons are the same reasons that ASU and GSU are looking to move to FBS. It's not a knock on the SoCon, but an acknowledgement of the reality that exists. All parties are looking to do what's in their best interest...hard to fault them for that.

[Apphole]

MOST of your 'fans' have no memory of anything before the michigan game.

That was the first App game I watched as a student at ASU. I have an excuse.

[Sandlapper Spike]

That was the first App game I watched as a student at ASU. I have an excuse.

That's tough. It's all downhill from there. Better to have started by watching a double-digit loss to Catawba or somebody.

[CID1990]

That was the first App game I watched as a student at ASU. I have an excuse.

The last road game I watched as a student at The Citadel was when we beat USC in 1990.

[Saint3333]

The earliest App or GSU could leave would be 2014 and most likely even if they get an invite this year, 2014 would be a transitional year and would play mostly FCS teams.

If ETSU started in 2015 that actually works out very well for scheduling purposes, that is if ETSU was willing to get beat up in year one playing a SoCon schedule.

[CID1990]

The earliest App or GSU could leave would be 2014 and most likely even if they get an invite this year, 2014 would be a transitional year and would play mostly FCS teams.

If ETSU started in 2015 that actually works out very well for scheduling purposes, that is if ETSU was willing to get beat up in year one playing a SoCon schedule.

They'd be ok in year 1 if they could tranny a few of the best athletes in the multiverse that currently play in Chattanooga.

A different coach might actually get results out of them, too!

[walliver]

The earliest App or GSU could leave would be 2014 and most likely even if they get an invite this year, 2014 would be a transitional year and would play mostly FCS teams.

If ETSU started in 2015 that actually works out very well for scheduling purposes, that is if ETSU was willing to get beat up in year one playing a SoCon schedule.


IF ASU and/or GSU accept bids this year, 2013 would likely be their last year in the SoCon. I doubt that any SoCon teams with playoff aspirations would play either team in 2014 - there is nothing much be be gained by a win, and a loss could keep a team out of the playoffs. A FBS invitation changes recruiting significantly, and the SoCon would want both teams gone quickly. ASU and GSU don't have enough money to make it an attractive "money game" for SoCon teams, and would probably play Big South teams at home and SBC teams having trouble filling their schedules on the road in 2014.

[citdog]

Is Appalachian a direction?

N, S, E, W, God's Country, well I guess it is.


appalachian is a synonym for poverty.

[Saint3333]

IF ASU and/or GSU accept bids this year, 2013 would likely be their last year in the SoCon. I doubt that any SoCon teams with playoff aspirations would play either team in 2014 - there is nothing much be be gained by a win, and a loss could keep a team out of the playoffs. A FBS invitation changes recruiting significantly, and the SoCon would want both teams gone quickly. ASU and GSU don't have enough money to make it an attractive "money game" for SoCon teams, and would probably play Big South teams at home and SBC teams having trouble filling their schedules on the road in 2014.

Your nothing to be gained comment is questionable, a win would be huge for a playoff resume. App has paid $200k to FCS teams for games, I would think some SoCon teams would like a payday like that. Perhaps it could go to assistant coaches' salaries.

I would guess UTC and WCU would like App to come to their places in 2014 one last time. We'd likely sign a return game in 2015 and 2016, one each.

[citdog]

Your nothing to be gained comment is questionable, a win would be huge for a playoff resume. App has paid $200k to FCS teams for games, I would think some SoCon teams would like a payday like that. Perhaps it could go to assistant coaches' salaries.

I would guess UTC and WCU would like App to come to their places in 2014 one last time. We'd likely sign a return game in 2015 and 2016, one each.


got invite?

[Saint3333]

Citdog should hope so, you either get to continue losing 8 out of 10 meetings vs. App or never have to play us again. The latter sounds like a great situation for you guys.

1215 - 782 > 28 - 52

[ASUMountaineer]

got invite?

got playoffs?

[citdog]

Citdog should hope so, you either get to continue losing 8 out of 10 meetings vs. App or never have to play us again. The latter sounds like a great situation for you guys.

1215 - 782 > 28 - 52




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4YLUVDPFbQ

[ASUMountaineer]

Citdog should hope so, you either get to continue losing 8 out of 10 meetings vs. App or never have to play us again. The latter sounds like a great situation for you guys.

1215 - 782 > 28 - 52

That reminds me of this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NA9uQSQYiSQ/SSYvDpCYkTI/AAAAAAAABAM/EMU-LyMV3uk/s400/VMI+Cheerleader.JPG

[citdog]

That reminds me of this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NA9uQSQYiSQ/SSYvDpCYkTI/AAAAAAAABAM/EMU-LyMV3uk/s400/VMI+Cheerleader.JPG


We WON that game too.

[superman7515]

General Mark Wayne Clark was a yankee.

[ASUMountaineer]

We WON that game too.

Cool. Did you actually go to the playoffs that season?

[citdog]

Cool. Did you actually go to the playoffs that season?


I do not recall


http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/conspiracy/story/in-the-shadows/olmsted-gallery/oliver-north-getty-545x360.jpg

[ASUMountaineer]

I do not recall


http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/conspiracy/story/in-the-shadows/olmsted-gallery/oliver-north-getty-545x360.jpg

xlolx All right, Mr. North.

[fc97]

IF ASU and/or GSU accept bids this year, 2013 would likely be their last year in the SoCon. I doubt that any SoCon teams with playoff aspirations would play either team in 2014 - there is nothing much be be gained by a win, and a loss could keep a team out of the playoffs. A FBS invitation changes recruiting significantly, and the SoCon would want both teams gone quickly. ASU and GSU don't have enough money to make it an attractive "money game" for SoCon teams, and would probably play Big South teams at home and SBC teams having trouble filling their schedules on the road in 2014.

and i'd be willing to bet that elon would have no problem scheduling app for a last series if it came down to it.

[GlassOnion]

and i'd be willing to bet that elon would have no problem scheduling app for a last series if it came down to it.

I'd take that bet. No reason for App to play Elon as an FBS team, and thats actually one game I and probably most App fans wont mind leaving behind. I dont even like playing Elon as an FCS team.

[fc97]

I'd take that bet. No reason for App to play Elon as an FBS team, and thats actually one game I and probably most App fans wont mind leaving behind. I dont even like playing Elon as an FCS team.

you'd take a bet that elon would play app as an fbs team if app need a schedule filler? that's a silly bet, but ok i'll take it.

you guys gripe about a series that is tainted by your opinion of happenings in two games that you guys tilt in your favor by whining in mass on message boards. when in reality the administrations have no problems with each other, the players have been friends through the years and so on.

moral of the story. app fans don't make schedules, especially the message board ones. so, i like how you turn an innocent comment into a way to dump on elon, again. but to be expected between you are your other little smack talking friend.

[GlassOnion]

you'd take a bet that elon would play app as an fbs team if app need a schedule filler? that's a silly bet, but ok i'll take it.

you guys gripe about a series that is tainted by your opinion of happenings in two games that you guys tilt in your favor by whining in mass on message boards. when in reality the administrations have no problems with each other, the players have been friends through the years and so on.

moral of the story. app fans don't make schedules, especially the message board ones. so, i like how you turn an innocent comment into a way to dump on elon, again. but to be expected between you are your other little smack talking friend.

Its not going to happen, and no, its not two games that tainted my view. I didnt want elon in the Socon to begin with.

[citdog]

Its not going to happen, and no, its not two games that tainted my view. I didnt want elon in the Socon to begin with.


well now you know how two GOOD schools felt when you were admitted. at least THEY had the stones to leave. y'all.......not so much

[fc97]

Its not going to happen, and no, its not two games that tainted my view. I didnt want elon in the Socon to begin with.

lol, you're such a waste of time. too bad app fans don't make schedules. you'd be fbs already.

[asumike83]

well now you know how two GOOD schools felt when you were admitted. at least THEY had the stones to leave. y'all.......not so much

It took 5 years after we joined for them to leave. Plus, y'all could have followed them out the door yourselves if our presence was so offending, no? It was 42 years ago, time to move on.

[ASUMountaineer]

well now you know how two GOOD schools felt when you were admitted. at least THEY had the stones to leave. y'all.......not so much

xlolx

[citdog]

It took 5 years after we joined for them to leave. Plus, y'all could have followed them out the door yourselves if our presence was so offending, no? It was 42 years ago, time to move on.

wcu, the blundering turds, and chatty were the straw that broke the mules back. i'd still rather have Richmond and William and Mary and this is all speculation until an actual 'john' pulls over and rolls down the window and 'invites' one of you to enter his 'conference'. so hike that skirt up a little more and TRY and make yourselves look presentable.




http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qHBPo8kY5VM/SUu60mf5D5I/AAAAAAAAAQE/TO5hPKGmGi4/s1600/hookers-flickr.jpg

[ASUMountaineer]

It took 5 years after we joined for them to leave. Plus, y'all could have followed them out the door yourselves if our presence was so offending, no? It was 42 years ago, time to move on.

Citdog can't move on...the guy dwells in the past (unless you're talking about the history of Citadel football, then it's "what have you done for me lately").

[Apphole]

wcu, the blundering turds, and chatty were the straw that broke the mules back.

Well there you go. They left because of WCU, Marsha and Chatty. App State's joining the SoCon didn't drive out anyone and now nothing but an increasingly small time conference is driving us out.

You sure do bitch a ton for a guy claiming the bitching will stop once App and GaSo leave.

[GlassOnion]

lol, you're such a waste of time. too bad app fans don't make schedules. you'd be fbs already.

As are you.

App will not play Elon as an FBS team. Write it down.

[GlassOnion]

Well there you go. They left because of WCU, Marsha and Chatty. App State's joining the SoCon didn't drive out anyone and now nothing but an increasingly small time conference is driving us out.

You sure do bitch a ton for a guy claiming the bitching will stop once App and GaSo leave.

When those schools did leave, Citdog moved their bags.

[asumike83]

You sure do bitch a ton for a guy claiming the bitching will stop once App and GaSo leave.

Just take the compliment for what it is, he brings us up in nearly every thread. It's like that little kid on the playground who is constantly picking on the classmate he has a crush on.

We've got at least a couple more years together if not more, citdog. Cherish these moments. xlovex

[The Cats]

Both ASU & GSU will be missed. They both bring a lot to the conference, but each school must take the route they think most beneficial. The SoCon will recover, as it has many times before, however, the writing is on the wall - small school conference, mostly private is the future. Nothing wrong with that, the SoCon continues to evolve.

I don't know where WCU will go, but it will follow ASU & GSU out the door, maybe there will be room in the OVC along with UTC.

[Saint3333]

Both ASU & GSU will be missed. They both bring a lot to the conference, but each school must take the route they think most beneficial. The SoCon will recover, as it has many times before, however, the writing is on the wall - small school conference, mostly private is the future. Nothing wrong with that, the SoCon continues to evolve.

I don't know where WCU will go, but it will follow ASU & GSU out the door, maybe there will be room in the OVC along with UTC.

Twice in two days we've agreed. The Mayans must have been off by about 40 days.

[ASUMountaineer]

Both ASU & GSU will be missed. They both bring a lot to the conference, but each school must take the route they think most beneficial. The SoCon will recover, as it has many times before, however, the writing is on the wall - small school conference, mostly private is the future. Nothing wrong with that, the SoCon continues to evolve.

I don't know where WCU will go, but it will follow ASU & GSU out the door, maybe there will be room in the OVC along with UTC.

If the OVC were willing, I think this would be an excellent move for UTC and WCU--especially if ETSU does get football and went with y'all. Then, the SoCon could have a specific conference filled with very like-minded schools and Citadel.

[dgtw]

I'd love to have Chatty in the OVC. But that is a school that likes football, so they'd probably be rejected.

[Apphole]

I'd love to have Chatty in the OVC. But that is a school that likes football, so they'd probably be rejected.

If I was a chatty fan, I wouldn't like football.

[The Cats]

You're not going any place again this season either.....

The Citadel picked for a 9th place finish out of 11 teams -

http://blogs.eastonbaseball.com/collegebaseballtoday/2013/02/04/2013-preview-southern-conference/

[citdog]

You're not going any place again this season either.....

The Citadel picked for a 9th place finish out of 11 teams -

http://blogs.eastonbaseball.com/collegebaseballtoday/2013/02/04/2013-preview-southern-conference/


We were picked next to last in '90 when we went someplace you have never been. Omaha for the College World Series.

[CID1990]

You're not going any place again this season either.....

The Citadel picked for a 9th place finish out of 11 teams -

http://blogs.eastonbaseball.com/collegebaseballtoday/2013/02/04/2013-preview-southern-conference/

We like being picked low.

Last time that happened we had one of those regular season championships, followed by a tournament championship, followed by a trip to the CWS and then a WIN in the CWS.

[asumike83]

I don't put too much stock in the preseason polls. ASU was picked 6th by the media last season I believe. You can pencil Davidson in for last place but after that, it is a crap shoot.

[PaladinFan]

Seems like a decent attempt at analysis.

Interested to see how Furman does. Program is now fully funded and has this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3MjcKRZrWMY) to look forward to in 2013. May not show dividends this season, but they are making some drastic improvements.

[Sandlapper Spike]

I like Sorenson, but I'm pretty sure he picked us to finish 11th in the league last season.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I wouldn't bet on El Cid or Samford finishing that low.

[citdog]

Seems like a decent attempt at analysis.

Interested to see how Furman does. Program is now fully funded and has this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3MjcKRZrWMY) to look forward to in 2013. May not show dividends this season, but they are making some drastic improvements.



furman sucks

[The Cats]

We like being picked low.

Your wish has been granted, everybody that does predictions are picking the Citadel low, very low, 9th and below.

[citdog]

Your wish has been granted, everybody that does predictions are picking the Citadel low, very low, 9th and below.



AWESOME!


we'll still play the games though

[fc97]

been reading a few boards and reading comments on here.

what i find most ironic is that certain vocal posters love to sit and complain that the socon has such a small, limiting vision. and then, a few posts later, they complain that the socon is delusional if they think they can get uncw and richmond. i am starting to think that, certain fans are just going to complain about anything the socon does anymore.

[citdog]

been reading a few boards and reading comments on here.

what i find most ironic is that certain vocal posters love to sit and complain that the socon has such a small, limiting vision. and then, a few posts later, they complain that the socon is delusional if they think they can get uncw and richmond. i am starting to think that, certain fans are just going to complain about anything the socon does anymore.


You are correct. Whiny bitches that make East Carolina sound like they didn't whine at all.

[ASUMountaineer]

been reading a few boards and reading comments on here.

what i find most ironic is that certain vocal posters love to sit and complain that the socon has such a small, limiting vision. and then, a few posts later, they complain that the socon is delusional if they think they can get uncw and richmond. i am starting to think that, certain fans are just going to complain about anything the socon does anymore.

What advantages exist for UR and UNCW to logically choose to move to the SoCon? That's not a knock on the SoCon, it's simply an observation of the available information. With that said, kudos to the SoCon for going after programs like those--even though they may get rebuked. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does seem extremely unlikely that UR or UNCW would leave the CAA/A10 to join the SoCon. Of course, don't let that stop you from making more broad generalizations. xthumbsupx

[citdog]

What advantages exist for UR and UNCW to logically choose to move to the SoCon? That's not a knock on the SoCon, it's simply an observation of the available information. With that said, kudos to the SoCon for going after programs like those--even though they may get rebuked. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does seem extremely unlikely that UR or UNCW would leave the CAA/A10 to join the SoCon. Of course, don't let that stop you from making more broad generalizations. xthumbsupx


The prodigal returned. Why not the university in our capitol?

[walliver]

CAA football is taking an increasingly northern course (Stony Brook and Albany). If these schools become all sports members, then the SoCon becomes more attractive to UNC-W.

Unless UR chooses to de-emphasize basketball, it is very unlikely they would leave the A-10. Football in the SoCon might be of some interest, but I suspect that many of us don't want football-only members

[Sandlapper Spike]

CAA football is taking an increasingly northern course (Stony Brook and Albany). If these schools become all sports members, then the SoCon becomes more attractive to UNC-W.

Unless UR chooses to de-emphasize basketball, it is very unlikely they would leave the A-10. Football in the SoCon might be of some interest, but I suspect that many of us don't want football-only members

I agree that I don't see Richmond as anything but football-only for the SoCon (unless there was a complete A-10 implosion and Richmond was left amid the rubble). I also am less than certain that the SoCon schools would support having a football-only member.

[fc97]

What advantages exist for UR and UNCW to logically choose to move to the SoCon? That's not a knock on the SoCon, it's simply an observation of the available information. With that said, kudos to the SoCon for going after programs like those--even though they may get rebuked. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does seem extremely unlikely that UR or UNCW would leave the CAA/A10 to join the SoCon. Of course, don't let that stop you from making more broad generalizations. xthumbsupx

there's lots going that could prompt a move. right now, the caa has a tv deal. will that last without odu, vcu and if george mason leaves? without the tv deal, what reason is there for uncw to stay. uncw is also the smallest, by far, athletics funder in the caa. their board is already trying to find ways to cut athletics expenditures. there are alot of reasons.

why richmond, all sports probably nothing unless the a-10 folds and the caa says no (which could be likely). but, they may be looking for better cost containment in football, that could be very likely.

i think the socon members may be more likely to take a football member if the member is good, established, full funded and provides long term opportunity of membership, something that uncc did not provide.

[ASUMountaineer]

The prodigal returned. Why not the university in our capitol?

I'm sure it's that, and not $$$, that will guide UR's decision. Does UR have a coat of many colors too?

[ASUMountaineer]

CAA football is taking an increasingly northern course (Stony Brook and Albany). If these schools become all sports members, then the SoCon becomes more attractive to UNC-W.

Unless UR chooses to de-emphasize basketball, it is very unlikely they would leave the A-10. Football in the SoCon might be of some interest, but I suspect that many of us don't want football-only members

Except that Charleston is leaving for the CAA.

[CID1990]

there's lots going that could prompt a move. right now, the caa has a tv deal. will that last without odu, vcu and if george mason leaves? without the tv deal, what reason is there for uncw to stay. uncw is also the smallest, by far, athletics funder in the caa. their board is already trying to find ways to cut athletics expenditures. there are alot of reasons.

why richmond, all sports probably nothing unless the a-10 folds and the caa says no (which could be likely). but, they may be looking for better cost containment in football, that could be very likely.

i think the socon members may be more likely to take a football member if the member is good, established, full funded and provides long term opportunity of membership, something that uncc did not provide.

UNCW will not be moving. Their presence in the CAA is one of the sweeteners for cofc going to the CAA, i.e: travel partners.

Although I have to say it would be evilly pleasing to me if they DID leave, leaving cofc holding the empty bag. But- UNCW doesnt play football. We need to be finding ways to get rid of schools like that, not trying to attract them.

[ASUMountaineer]

there's lots going that could prompt a move. right now, the caa has a tv deal. will that last without odu, vcu and if george mason leaves? without the tv deal, what reason is there for uncw to stay. uncw is also the smallest, by far, athletics funder in the caa. their board is already trying to find ways to cut athletics expenditures. there are alot of reasons.

why richmond, all sports probably nothing unless the a-10 folds and the caa says no (which could be likely). but, they may be looking for better cost containment in football, that could be very likely.

i think the socon members may be more likely to take a football member if the member is good, established, full funded and provides long term opportunity of membership, something that uncc did not provide.

What I'm seeing in your post is that there are many things that have to happen to make it possibly a logical choice for UR and UNCW to switch to the SoCon. Are there any reasons that don't require X,Y, and/or Z to happen first? You'll notice that I was basing my post off of the "available information." In other words, as of right now, why would it make sense for UR and/or UNCW to move to the SoCon?

[The Cats]

UNCW will not be moving. Their presence in the CAA is one of the sweeteners for cofc going to the CAA, i.e: travel partners.

Although I have to say it would be evilly pleasing to me if they DID leave, leaving cofc holding the empty bag. But- UNCW doesnt play football. We need to be finding ways to get rid of schools like that, not trying to attract them.

UNCW for all sports, with Richmond for football would be a good compromise and would put a team in all the major sports.

[iBOsbu]

CAA football is taking an increasingly northern course (Stony Brook and Albany). If these schools become all sports members, then the SoCon becomes more attractive to UNC-W.
Unless UR chooses to de-emphasize basketball, it is very unlikely they would leave the A-10. Football in the SoCon might be of some interest, but I suspect that many of us don't want football-only members

Unless CAA picks up a couple of more members from Davidson, Furman, Elon and UNC-G and creates North, South divisions for both FB and BB. CofC is also in CAA who is a great travel partner for UNC-W.

[fc97]

What I'm seeing in your post is that there are many things that have to happen to make it possibly a logical choice for UR and UNCW to switch to the SoCon. Are there any reasons that don't require X,Y, and/or Z to happen first? You'll notice that I was basing my post off of the "available information." In other words, as of right now, why would it make sense for UR and/or UNCW to move to the SoCon?

that's silly. there are many things that have to happen to make any school leave a conference and join a new one. due diligence, cost, board approvals and so on. college conference membership is an entirely fluid experience in the past few years. situations change day to day.

so richmond, i don't know
mercer, i don't know
vmi, i don't know
uncw, i don't know

app to the sun belt, i don't know

[fc97]

another thing, charleston didn't leave to be a travel partner for uncw, they left for basketball money that may or may not be there long term (see the reason why elon and davidson are still socon)

uncw is very vocal about having a southern division that contains travel costs, they didn't get that.

[ASUMountaineer]

that's silly. there are many things that have to happen to make any school leave a conference and join a new one. due diligence, cost, board approvals and so on. college conference membership is an entirely fluid experience in the past few years. situations change day to day.

so richmond, i don't know
mercer, i don't know
vmi, i don't know
uncw, i don't know

app to the sun belt, i don't know

No more silly than you trying to show that UR/UNCW would have logical reasons to leave the CAA/A10 for the SoCon right now.

[ASUMountaineer]

another thing, charleston didn't leave to be a travel partner for uncw, they left for basketball money that may or may not be there long term (see the reason why elon and davidson are still socon)

uncw is very vocal about having a southern division that contains travel costs, they didn't get that.

Who said they did?

I don't get your defensiveness.

[fc97]

No more silly than you trying to show that UR/UNCW would have logical reasons to leave the CAA/A10 for the SoCon right now.

i never said they would leave right now. i simply said that there are reasons for both making the move. uncw wants to contain travel costs and richmond wants to contain travel costs for football. that right there is reason enough.