2013 Baseball Hall of Fame

[Gil Dobie]

It's looking like Biggio might be the only new member when voting is finished today. Would like to have seen Jack Morris elected, but the percentages might not be there. Steroid era players will have a tough time.

Players on ballot
Jack Morris
Jeff Bagwell
Lee Smith
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Edgar Martínez
Fred McGriff
Larry Walker
Mark McGwire
Don Mattingly
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro
Bernie Williams
Sandy Alomar, Jr.
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Jeff Cirillo
Royce Clayton
Roger Clemens
Jeff Conine
Steve Finley
Julio Franco
Shawn Green
Roberto Hernández
Ryan Klesko
Kenny Lofton
José Mesa
Mike Piazza
Reggie Sanders
Curt Schilling
Aaron Sele
Sammy Sosa
Mike Stanton
Todd Walker
David Wells
Rondell White
Woody Williams

[citdog]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cQ9Xb3Cxdc0/TI_C08EBTlI/AAAAAAAAAeo/OgpeFUYWN90/s320/DaleMurphy1.jpg

[Gil Dobie]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cQ9Xb3Cxdc0/TI_C08EBTlI/AAAAAAAAAeo/OgpeFUYWN90/s320/DaleMurphy1.jpg

I would vote for Murphy if I had a vote. 2 time MVP.

[Laker]

I'm surprised that Murphy hasn't made it yet. I'd like to see Jack Morris get in.

The steroid guys can wait decades for all I care.

[darell1976]

I hope Sandy Alomar Jr. gets in....one of the best catchers ever for the Indians. A lot of other former Indians on the list...Jack Morris, Alomar Jr., Julio Franco, Kenny Lofton, and Jose Mesa. Funny how strict baseball is when it comes to getting into the Hall but it doesn't seem so strict in football.

[citdog]

I would vote for Murphy if I had a vote. 2 time MVP.


Dale Murphy is a HERO for a generation of Southern Boys. In small fry baseball there were almost fisticuffs to settle who was going to wear #3. He belongs in the Hall of Fame. I hope he doesn't have to wait for the veteran's committee.

[Gil Dobie]

I hope Sandy Alomar Jr. gets in....one of the best catchers ever for the Indians. A lot of other former Indians on the list...Jack Morris, Alomar Jr., Julio Franco, Kenny Lofton, and Jose Mesa. Funny how strict baseball is when it comes to getting into the Hall but it doesn't seem so strict in football.

The Hall of Fame isn't run by Major League Baseball, the Baseball writers vote for players until their eligibility runs out, then the old-timers committee is the only option left for a player to be elected.

[darell1976]

The Hall of Fame isn't run by Major League Baseball, the Baseball writers vote for players until their eligibility runs out, then the old-timers committee is the only option left for a player to be elected.

Seems like one 1 or nobody gets in. What is up with that? There are a lot of great players who will be dead before they get in at this rate.

[Laker]

The Hall of Fame isn't run by Major League Baseball, the Baseball writers vote for players until their eligibility runs out, then the old-timers committee is the only option left for a player to be elected.


Seems like one 1 or nobody gets in. What is up with that? There are a lot of great players who will be dead before they get in at this rate.

A lot of these writers are arrogant asses. There is no reason why some of these guys aren't in already. It would make a big difference to them to be named while still alive.

[Gil Dobie]

Seems like one 1 or nobody gets in. What is up with that? There are a lot of great players who will be dead before they get in at this rate.

Baseball writers are like a herd of cats, all are very independent

[TheRevSFA]

Until they either take Bonds, McGwire, and Clemens off the ballot, or allow Rose and Joe Jackson on, I will ignore the HOF and the sportswriters.

[UMass922]

Zilch!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Jack Morris should be in!!

[NHwildEcat]

Until they either take Bonds, McGwire, and Clemens off the ballot, or allow Rose and Joe Jackson on, I will ignore the HOF and the sportswriters.

All of the names you mention SHOULD be in. It is ignorant to completely by-pass an entire part of the history of the game. Steroids or not, these were the best of the best during their careers. If a writer is going to assume all of them were on steroids then wouldn't you still take the best of that group? The BBWAA is a complete joke, but that is nothing new.

[NHwildEcat]

Jack Morris should be in!!

If he does get in next year, then it opens the door for other border line candidates such as Curt Schilling.

[Gil Dobie]

If he does get in next year, then it opens the door for other border line candidates such as Curt Schilling.

Morris was the best pitcher of the 1980's. Why should Don Drysdale, Lefty Gomez, Whitey Ford be in the HOF and Morris not? I looked at some of the voters that didn't vote for Morris and the location was NY, Boston, NY etc.

[Gil Dobie]

If he does get in next year, then it opens the door for other border line candidates such as Curt Schilling.

A fiew key stats
Morris 18 years, 254 wins, 175 Complete games, 28 shutouts
Schilling 20 years, 216 wins, 83 complete games, 20 shutouts

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

A fiew key stats
Morris 18 years, 254 wins, 175 Complete games, 28 shutouts
Schilling 20 years, 216 wins, 83 complete games, 20 shutouts

Both Schilling and Morris are HOF's.

Schilling is the best big game pitcher of my generation imo.

[TheRevSFA]

I can't believe someone voted for Aaron Sele....

[UMass922]

Morris was not the best pitcher of the '80s. He had the most wins, but don't confuse that with "best." He was a good-not-great pitcher, who got good run support, and was the most durable workhorse who happened to have the heart of his career more or less align with the years 1980-1989. At no point in the '80s was he in the conversation for "best pitcher in baseball." In the early '80s the best pitcher in baseball was Steve Carlton, in the late '80s it was Roger Clemens, and for a couple years in the middle it was Doc Gooden. There are a bunch of other pitchers from that era (Hershiser and Saberhagen, for example) I'd take over Jack Morris, too. Morris, for all his wins, only received two Cy Young votes the entire decade. He just wasn't a dominant pitcher, even at his peak.

Ron Guidry and Frank Viola also each led baseball in wins over ten-year periods, had superior peak seasons (including Cy Young awards), and had notable postseason credentials as well (Guidry especially, who was 3-1 with a 1.69 ERA in the World Series; Viola, like Morris, won a World Series game 7 for the Twins). I wouldn't vote either for the Hall of Fame, but I'd certainly rather see a guy like Guidry in the Hall of Fame than a guy like Morris. I guess I'm just more of a peak guy than a longevity guy.

As for Schilling, he was an even better postseason pitcher than Morris (and has as many rings), had superior peak seasons, and is a member of the 3,000 strikeout club (every eligible member of which is in the Hall of Fame--well, until now, with Clemens not getting in). He had as many 20-win seasons as Morris did (and led his league in wins as many times), led his league in innings more times than Morris did, led in complete games more times than Morris did, made more All-Star teams than Morris did, did better in Cy Young voting than Morris did (three runner-up finishes; Morris peaked at third, twice). And those are just the traditional credentials; I'm not even going to get into advanced stats or WAR or anything like that, because I don't think those things are even necessary to make the case--though those numbers favor Schilling, too. All Morris did was go 38-40 on top of Schilling's record, which is compilation and nothing more. If Morris eventually gets in, that's fine, but I don't see what he has on Curt Schilling, other than more durability.

[UMass922]

I can't believe someone voted for Aaron Sele....

When a guy like that gets a vote, it's usually just from some writer who covered him, had a good relationship with him, and wanted to throw him a bone. I don't think anyone seriously believes Aaron Sele is a Hall of Famer. There are guys like that who get votes every year.

It's unfortunate, though, to see guys like Kenny Lofton and Bernie Williams fall off the ballot. I'm not sure either was a Hall of Famer, but it would've been nice to see them stay on the ballot and at least get a serious conversation for a few years. They were two guys who thrived in the steroid era without relying on absurd home run totals (only one 30-homer season between them), and they deserve more recognition for that than they're going to get.

[NHwildEcat]

When a guy like that gets a vote, it's usually just from some writer who covered him, had a good relationship with him, and wanted to throw him a bone. I don't think anyone seriously believes Aaron Sele is a Hall of Famer. There are guys like that who get votes every year.

It's unfortunate, though, to see guys like Kenny Lofton and Bernie Williams fall off the ballot. I'm not sure either was a Hall of Famer, but it would've been nice to see them stay on the ballot and at least get a serious conversation for a few years. They were two guys who thrived in the steroid era without relying on absurd home run totals (only one 30-homer season between them), and they deserve more recognition for that than they're going to get.

Lofton and Williams could have been a part of the steroid era for all we know. Seems like most people assume guilt on the matter even if there is no evidence to support it. So with that said it makes complete sense why they didn't get more votes since even the best players of that era are getting only a third of the support.

Worries me when Griffey's turn comes...he should be a first ballot entrant with a hight 90% vote in support. But a lot of these writers who's career was made off of the surge in baseball that was a direct result of steroids, will not vote for him simply because he played with Bonds and Clemens etc...the BBWAA needs to get their **** together.

[Gil Dobie]

Morris was not the best pitcher of the '80s. He had the most wins, but don't confuse that with "best." He was a good-not-great pitcher, who got good run support, and was the most durable workhorse who happened to have the heart of his career more or less align with the years 1980-1989. At no point in the '80s was he in the conversation for "best pitcher in baseball," though. In the early '80s the best pitcher in baseball was Steve Carlton, in the late '80s it was Roger Clemens, and for a couple years in the middle it was Doc Gooden. There are a bunch of other pitchers from that era (Hershiser and Saberhagen, for example) I'd take over Jack Morris, too. Morris, for all his wins, only received two Cy Young votes the entire decade. He just wasn't a dominant pitcher, even at his peak.

Ron Guidry and Frank Viola also each led baseball in wins over ten-year periods, had superior peak seasons (including Cy Young awards), and had notable postseason credentials as well (Guidry especially, who was 3-1 with a 1.69 ERA in the World Series; Viola, like Morris, won a World Series game 7 for the Twins). I wouldn't vote either for the Hall of Fame, but I'd certainly rather see a guy like Guidry in the Hall of Fame than a guy like Morris. I guess I'm just more of a peak guy than a longevity guy.

As for Schilling, he was an even better postseason pitcher than Morris (and has as many rings), had superior peak seasons, and is a member of the 3,000 strikeout club (every eligible member of which is in the Hall of Fame--well, until now, with Clemens not getting in). He had as many 20-win seasons as Morris did, led his league in innings more times than Morris did, led in complete games more times than Morris did, made more All-Star teams than Morris did, did better in Cy Young voting than Morris did (three runner-up finishes; Morris peaked at third, twice). And those are just the traditional credentials; I'm not even going to get into advanced stats or WAR or anything, because I don't even think it's necessary to make the case. All Morris did was go 38-40 on top of Schilling's record, which is compilation and nothing more. If Morris eventually gets in, that's fine, but I don't see what he has on Curt Schilling, other than more durability.

I'm just going by what I saw on the mound. You give me a pitcher that shows up for all or most of his starts, and finishes what he starts. I would take Morris over any pitcher mentioned in your post, except for Carlton in his prime. Morris was good for more like a 13 year period. Sure pitchers came and went with 1 good season or a half dozen, but Morris was there every day, doing what he was asked to do.

[Gil Dobie]

Lofton and Williams could have been a part of the steroid era for all we know. Seems like most people assume guilt on the matter even if there is no evidence to support it. So with that said it makes complete sense why they didn't get more votes since even the best players of that era are getting only a third of the support.

Worries me when Griffey's turn comes...he should be a first ballot entrant with a hight 90% vote in support. But a lot of these writers who's career was made off of the surge in baseball that was a direct result of steroids, will not vote for him simply because he played with Bonds and Clemens etc...the BBWAA needs to get their **** together.

Haven't heard anything connecting Griffey Jr with steroids, but Pujols name has been rumored.

[bluehenbillk]

Julio Franco needs more street cred.

[UMass922]

I'm just going by what I saw on the mound. You give me a pitcher that shows up for all or most of his starts, and finishes what he starts. I would take Morris over any pitcher mentioned in your post, except for Carlton in his prime. Morris was good for more like a 13 year period. Sure pitchers came and went with 1 good season or a half dozen, but Morris was there every day, doing what he was asked to do.

I guess for me it's just that Morris is a Hall of Famer neither by peak nor longevity standards. ~250 wins and ~3,800 innings is a nice career, but there are guys with more (or about as many) of both who aren't in the Hall of Fame, and Morris just doesn't have dominant peak years that make him stand out from that crowd. And even his postseason career was more mixed than some people seem to remember.

If people support Morris for the Hall because he was an admirable workhorse, had some great postseason moments, and embodied what they love about baseball (and what they miss about it in today's game), I can respect that. I just can't buy the argument that he was the best pitcher of the '80s. Most representative pitcher of the '80s, perhaps, but not the best.

[citdog]

Julio Franco needs more street cred.


his stance is among the best ever



http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/684/383/JulioFranco_display_image.jpg?1324010014


wider than larry craig even

[ngineer]

I'm surprised that Murphy hasn't made it yet. I'd like to see Jack Morris get in.

The steroid guys can wait decades for all I care.

Murphy will only make it,now, through the Veteran's Committee. A real shame. Meets all of the criteria.