Source: America East Looking at Bryant

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://blog.ctnews.com/college/2012/12/19/america-east-looking-at-bryant/


Bryant University is among the schools that America East is looking at adding, according to multiple sources that spoke to Hearst News Group.

With Boston University heading to the Patriot League after the 2012-13 school year, the AE will be down to eight members. According to a source, the conference could add up to four new members with the Bryant among the top choices.

Bryant, which began the transition to NCAA Division I status in the summer of 2007, became a full-time member of the Northeast Conference this year.

The NEC has already lost two schools to the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference, with Quinnipiac and Monmouth announcing last week they were switching conferences. The MAAC added two schools after losing Loyola to the Patriot League and could still add another school at some point.

Oh boy.

[danefan]

Not surprising.

NEC is going to be forced into accepting these schools as affiliate football members.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not surprising.

NEC is going to be forced into accepting these schools as affiliate football members.

If they apply.

[aceinthehole]

If they apply.

We already know that Monmouth plans to apply.

So why do you doubt that another NEC football schools would also apply if, in fact, they leave for a conference that doesn't sponsor football?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

We already know that Monmouth plans to apply.

So why do you doubt that another NEC football schools would also apply if, in fact, they leave for a conference that doesn't sponsor football?

There's got to be a tipping point somewhere. What if Monmouth, CCSU and Bryant all choose to be affiliates in the NEC? There'd be only four full voting NEC members left.

More importantly, what would stop Monmouth, CCSU and Bryant from today, tomorrow or a couple of years from now leaving and joining another conference? Loyalty to the NEC? A full-on embrace of the 40 scholarship model?

[Pard4Life]

Who else could America East add? Good spot for Bryant.

[danefan]

There's got to be a tipping point somewhere. What if Monmouth, CCSU and Bryant all choose to be affiliates in the NEC? There'd be only four full voting NEC members left.

More importantly, what would stop Monmouth, CCSU and Bryant from today, tomorrow or a couple of years from now leaving and joining another conference? Loyalty to the NEC? A full-on embrace of the 40 scholarship model?

Where else are they going to go?

None of these schools have indicated they are willing to make the financial commitment the CAA requires.

[dgreco]

I hope this doesn't mean football is dropped if we move to AEast. Could the other three include RMU and CCSU? I don't know who a fourth member would be.

[aceinthehole]

There's got to be a tipping point somewhere. What if Monmouth, CCSU and Bryant all choose to be affiliates in the NEC? There'd be only four full voting NEC members left.

More importantly, what would stop Monmouth, CCSU and Bryant from today, tomorrow or a couple of years from now leaving and joining another conference? Loyalty to the NEC? A full-on embrace of the 40 scholarship model?

Simple answer: Self preservation.

For as long as a NEC has full members that have football programs and want to keep the AQ, it is in their best interest to keep associate members.

Of course there is the risk that these associate may leave for better opportunities (just as Albany and SBU have done), but it is a risk that the NEC members are likely willing to take.

If the option is:
1) a 5-team NEC football league without an AQ and that struggles to schedule non-conference games, or
2) a competitive 8-team league and AQ access with associates,
what do you chose?

By being associates, yes the teams have no long-term investment in the NEC, but that's reason why they don’t have a vote on league matters. It is a take it or leave it proposition for associates. Stony Brook left, Albany hung on until something opened up. So was it a bad move to have these schools as NEC associates?

These associate agreements are based on one simple principle - each party benefits from the agreement in some manner. That's it. It is not really much more complicated than that.

[aceinthehole]

Where else are they going to go?

None of these schools have indicated they are willing to make the financial commitment the CAA requires.

True on the first part - they can't go anywhere else for now.

The bigger issue is they don't have an invite anywhere. CCSU is the only NEC school that is MAX 40 schollys today and I know we can fund 60 in the CAA. But until Central gets an invite, we have no choice but to stay in the NEC for football - as a member or an associate.

I have no doubt Monmoouth could fund the rides for the Patriot League, but they don't have an invite.

[MplsBison]

Where else are they going to go?

None of these schools have indicated they are willing to make the financial commitment the CAA requires.

Maybe when I-AA max scholarships are dropped to 40...

[danefan]

Maybe when I-AA max scholarships are dropped to 40...

Not going to happen anytime soon.

[aceinthehole]

Latest interview with the NEC Commissioner.


Quinnipiac and Monmouth’s move into the MAAC is effective for all eligible sports on July 1, 2013. Once the transition is complete, the NEC will contract down to ten full-time members, which is a number Morris said and she and her NEC staff are comfortable with, at least for the time being.

“Ten [members] for basketball especially is a great number for scheduling,” said Morris. “You can do a double round-robin and that’s especially important to our coaches, because in the past our unbalanced schedule – with not all of our teams making the tournament – they felt that was a little more difficult. So ten is a very good number for basketball scheduling, however in this world of conference realignment, we will certainly look to see if there are options for expansion that make sense for the NEC.”

The NEC staff and member presidents will meet at a later date to discuss all expansion options. All topics will be on the table for discussion according to Morris, including which possible candidate programs – from Division I or Division II – may be targeted. Morris also didn’t rule out the possibility that other football candidate programs may be added to strengthen the conference’s football division.

The NEC precariously stands at seven full-time football members at the moment (six teams are needed to secure an automatic FCS playoff berth), with the recently departed Monmouth as a possible eighth program, should they decide to apply as an associate member of the conference. Still, Morris isn’t specifically targeting a certain number of teams for the NEC’s football division.

“The Patriot League has lived at seven [programs] for a long time, so seven is not an impossible number,” said Morris.

In addition, Morris reiterated that the NEC doesn’t necessarily need an even number of full-time member institutions. If certain circumstances arose that helped improve the NEC and met the conference’s five-year strategic plan, then an odd number of full-time members wouldn’t serve as a barrier.

“This conference lived at 11 institutions for eight years prior to Bryant [University] coming aboard,” said Morris. “It’s not a foreign concept at all.”

Morris was understandably vague when asked about expansion specifics, yet she continued to reiterate that the NEC will do what is in the best interest for its conference and the member schools down the road.
http://nycbuckets.com/2012/12/4431/

[DFW HOYA]

I know it's been discounted in the past, but if the NEC was treading water in terms of football membership, they would reach out to Marist and/or Georgetown. Less likely either would go now, but due diligence would suggest the NEC will consider all candidates.

Marist suffers with its budget ($870K) but would they give up the travel cost of the Pioneer for a bus league like the NEC? (FWIW, Marist was once an NEC member, before the football conference was formed.)

[dgreco]

Latest interview with the NEC Commissioner.


http://nycbuckets.com/2012/12/4431/

If the NEC is proactive I think it may keep Bryant around, however, if things linger I can see Bryant jumping ship. Also, I was always an advocate of seeing an LIU-Post, Bentley, New Haven type school move up, but I wonder if Bryant would jump if schools like that moved up.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I know it's been discounted in the past, but if the NEC was treading water in terms of football membership, they would reach out to Marist and/or Georgetown. Less likely either would go now, but due diligence would suggest the NEC will consider all candidates.

Marist suffers with its budget ($870K) but would they give up the travel cost of the Pioneer for a bus league like the NEC? (FWIW, Marist was once an NEC member, before the football conference was formed.)

The problem with NEC football involves the number of full members. If Bryant and CCSU stay, this is moot, as they'd have six full-time football members, but if they leave as full members and go somewhere else, having them come back as associates and taking on two new associate members won't help with stability at all.

RMU has also made noises that they're restless, too.

[Laker]

I hope this doesn't mean football is dropped if we move to AEast. Could the other three include RMU and CCSU? I don't know who a fourth member would be.

I was interested to hear your thoughts about this possibility.

[aceinthehole]

The problem with NEC football involves the number of full members. If Bryant and CCSU stay, this is moot, as they'd have six full-time football members, but if they leave as full members and go somewhere else, having them come back as associates and taking on two new associate members won't help with stability at all.

RMU has also made noises that they're restless, too.

Why? As long as the full members of the NEC retain the AQ, why does it really matter if the associates are the majority? The NEC members still control all football decsions, plus they gain additional revenue from the associate member fees.

What if CCSU and Bryant do leave the NEC to join the AE for next year and let's also assume they are both not offered a spot in the CAA or Patriot for football.

Can someone explain what benefit is there to RMU, SFPA, SHU, and Wagner to deny MU, CCSU and Bryant associate football membership? The remaining full members NEED the associates just as much as the potential associates need the NEC. Both parties gain something they need - access to the playoffs through the AQ.

[iBOsbu]

CAA Football has only 4 full members and 7 associate members. I dont think its a major issue.

[superman7515]

CAA Football has only 4 full members and 7 associate members. I dont think its a major issue.

There are no associate members of CAA Football. CAA football is, like the MVFC, separate from the CAA all-sports conference.

[RichH2]

CAA may have some future tumult but it is not related to assovc members. Supe right football is separate. There issue will still be geographic.

[fc97]

The NEC could get out of it altogether and merge into a Big South North and South division

[Lehigh Football Nation]

CAA Football has only 4 full members and 7 associate members. I dont think its a major issue.

So you think.


There are no associate members of CAA Football. CAA football is, like the MVFC, separate from the CAA all-sports conference.

But all-conference members have more rights than football-only members, correct?

[Seawolf97]

Bryant would be a good fit for the AE. Hope this bears fruit .

[MplsBison]

The NEC could get out of it altogether and merge into a Big South North and South division

Your proposal is accepted.

One auto for the best team from this new league.

[ccd494]

There are no associate members of CAA Football. CAA football is, like the MVFC, separate from the CAA all-sports conference.

And there's no reason that the Northeast couldn't shift to this model if the associates suddenly outnumbered the full members.

LFN, you are thinking too linearly. "There is an NEC conference, therefore, any conference containing all the schools currently in the NEC conference must be the NEC."

There's no reason there couldn't be a "Northeast Football Conference" which, like the CAA or MVFC, is run out of the NEC league office, but includes all members as full, charter members of the conference.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There's no reason there couldn't be a "Northeast Football Conference" which, like the CAA or MVFC, is run out of the NEC league office, but includes all members as full, charter members of the conference.

There's no reason there can't be a "NEC football conference" that is run out of the NEC office that contains America East, MAAC, A-10 or other conferences' schools. But the NEC commissioner will be speaking for some schools more than others. How could she not?

[MplsBison]

There's no reason there can't be a "NEC football conference" that is run out of the NEC office that contains America East, MAAC, A-10 or other conferences' schools. But the NEC commissioner will be speaking for some schools more than others. How could she not?

The MVC comiss speaks very highly of NDSU.

[ccd494]

There's no reason there can't be a "NEC football conference" that is run out of the NEC office that contains America East, MAAC, A-10 or other conferences' schools. But the NEC commissioner will be speaking for some schools more than others. How could she not?

Maine, UNH, Villanova, Richmond all seem to be content with Tom Yaeger. And there is a muuuuuuuch wider disparity in goals and outlooks between the CAA affiliates and all sports members. Heck, look who just got admitted, SBU and Albany. Who does that benefit the most? Maine and UNH.

Monmouth and Sacred Heart may be in different conferences now, but what could the commissioner really do to heavily favor SHU over MU? Make the Hawks play six conference road games? The NEC commissioner would still do whatever it is the commissioner does in order to maximize playoff appearances, using the conference slush fund to bid for home games, etc. If Monmouth hosts Colgate and wins in the first round, it helps Robert Morris just as much as it would if Wagner was the team to host Colgate and win.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Maine, UNH, Villanova, Richmond all seem to be content with Tom Yaeger. And there is a muuuuuuuch wider disparity in goals and outlooks between the CAA affiliates and all sports members. Heck, look who just got admitted, SBU and Albany. Who does that benefit the most? Maine and UNH.

Monmouth and Sacred Heart may be in different conferences now, but what could the commissioner really do to heavily favor SHU over MU? Make the Hawks play six conference road games?

Suppose Yeager talks about making Stony Brook as an all-sports member in the CAA. Are Delaware and New Hampshire "equal" in that circumstance?

Similarly, let's say the NEC talks about bringing in, say (this is a completely fictitious example) NJIT, Hartford, Adelphi, and the College of St. Rose, four non-football programs. When the commissioner calls the press conference hailing a new era, is that reflecting Duquesne's priorites? Would it reflect Monmouth's, or Bryant's?

I've talked in the past how having Albany and SBU as football-only members instead of full CAA members could be the seed of future problems within the CAA football conference. This is what the NEC would be signing up for - assuming, of course, that Monmouth and Bryant actually do apply to become members of the NEC and don't choose to sponsor 60 or 63 scholarships elsewhere.

[DSUrocks07]

Suppose Yeager talks about making Stony Brook as an all-sports member in the CAA. Are Delaware and New Hampshire "equal" in that circumstance?

Similarly, let's say the NEC talks about bringing in, say (this is a completely fictitious example) NJIT, Hartford, Adelphi, and the College of St. Rose, four non-football programs. When the commissioner calls the press conference hailing a new era, is that reflecting Duquesne's priorites? Would it reflect Monmouth's, or Bryant's?

I've talked in the past how having Albany and SBU as football-only members instead of full CAA members could be the seed of future problems within the CAA football conference. This is what the NEC would be signing up for - assuming, of course, that Monmouth and Bryant actually do apply to become members of the NEC and don't choose to sponsor 60 or 63 scholarships elsewhere.

IF CAA Football and the CAA are separate entities, then what business is it of the members of former who aren't a member of the latter?

[ccd494]

Yes, Delaware and UNH would still be equal members of the CAA Football conference. When the CAA first formed, there was a plurality of full CAA members in the football conference. And the league somehow managed to organize itself and function (and, at that time, become clearly the best FCS conference in the country). If Stony Brook left AE, it would hurt UNH in basketball and the Olympic sports, but UNH is still in the CAA, UNH is still in Hockey East, so you know what, UNH will be just fine.

And what does Duquesne, Monmouth or Bryant care that the NEC adds junk basketball teams? Heck, Bryant and Monmouth would probably love it. One has no bearing upon the other. Duquesne's "priority" as much as Duquesne prioritizes football, is to play in a northeast regional league that lets them contain costs, vis a vis playing either FBS or with 63 scholarship. The NEC calling a press conference for a completely un-football related matter doesn't matter to them. Nor would it matter to Monmouth, or Bryant, or any other affiliate or non-all sports member. There's already someone out there who is supposed to be hailing the "new era" reflecting Duquesne's priorities- it's the commissioner of the Atlantic 10. As long as the league makes a schedule and has an automatic bid, I can't see much Duquesne cares about. Duquesne isn't going to get where Duquesne wants to be even if the NEC commissioner calls a weekly press conference to shine the Dukes, it's a net zero both ways.

Schools that have programs and teams in other sports than their basketball conferences seem to care a whole lot less about this than you do. Maine and New Hampshire have done pretty damn well for themselves in both the CAA for football and Hockey East. When the CAA added College of Charleston, you know who couldn't have given two ****s? Maine and New Hampshire. When Providence voted to leave the Big East, you know who couldn't have given two ****s? Maine and New Hampshire.

You like spotting problems where problems don't exist.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

IF CAA Football and the CAA are separate entities, then what business is it of the members of former who aren't a member of the latter?


And what does Duquesne, Monmouth or Bryant care that the NEC adds junk basketball teams? Heck, Bryant and Monmouth would probably love it.

You're both wrong, but you'll discover that in due time.

[aceinthehole]

Yes, Delaware and UNH would still be equal members of the CAA Football conference. When the CAA first formed, there was a plurality of full CAA members in the football conference. And the league somehow managed to organize itself and function (and, at that time, become clearly the best FCS conference in the country). If Stony Brook left AE, it would hurt UNH in basketball and the Olympic sports, but UNH is still in the CAA, UNH is still in Hockey East, so you know what, UNH will be just fine.

And what does Duquesne, Monmouth or Bryant care that the NEC adds junk basketball teams? Heck, Bryant and Monmouth would probably love it. One has no bearing upon the other. Duquesne's "priority" as much as Duquesne prioritizes football, is to play in a northeast regional league that lets them contain costs, vis a vis playing either FBS or with 63 scholarship. The NEC calling a press conference for a completely un-football related matter doesn't matter to them. Nor would it matter to Monmouth, or Bryant, or any other affiliate or non-all sports member. There's already someone out there who is supposed to be hailing the "new era" reflecting Duquesne's priorities- it's the commissioner of the Atlantic 10. As long as the league makes a schedule and has an automatic bid, I can't see much Duquesne cares about. Duquesne isn't going to get where Duquesne wants to be even if the NEC commissioner calls a weekly press conference to shine the Dukes, it's a net zero both ways.

Schools that have programs and teams in other sports than their basketball conferences seem to care a whole lot less about this than you do. Maine and New Hampshire have done pretty damn well for themselves in both the CAA for football and Hockey East. When the CAA added College of Charleston, you know who couldn't have given two ****s? Maine and New Hampshire. When Providence voted to leave the Big East, you know who couldn't have given two ****s? Maine and New Hampshire.

You like spotting problems where problems don't exist.

+1

[DSUrocks07]

You're both wrong, but you'll discover that in due time.

Ah yes...the non-answer answer...very well then. Carry on with your soliloquy. xviolinx

[mainejeff]

All I know is this........if George Mason leaves the CAA.........that all-sports league is TOAST.

[henfan]

All I know is this........if George Mason leaves the CAA.........that all-sports league is TOAST.

Nope, they'll just decimate the AEC again by poaching off another member or two south of the ME border. If that happens, the AEC will be in DEEP trouble and dangerously close to losing a few NCAA bids. OTOH, that's probably great news for the Black Bears' future conference partners at Bryant, CCSU, etc.

[ccd494]

You're both wrong, but you'll discover that in due time.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."


Nope, they'll just decimate the AEC again by poaching off another member or two south of the ME border. If that happens, the AEC will be in DEEP trouble and dangerously close to losing a few NCAA bids. OTOH, that's probably great news for the Black Bears' future conference partners at Bryant, CCSU, etc.

Maine couldn't win a two team conference in any sport these days, so what do we care?

[mainejeff]

Nope, they'll just decimate the AEC again by poaching off another member or two south of the ME border. If that happens, the AEC will be in DEEP trouble and dangerously close to losing a few NCAA bids. OTOH, that's probably great news for the Black Bears' future conference partners at Bryant, CCSU, etc.

Albany and Stony Brook are not moving to this:

Northeastern
Hofstra
Drexel
Delaware
Towson
JMU (one foot out the door)
W&M
UNCW
C of C

Increased travel costs, declining league revenue........why would they want to join another 1 bid hoops league that keeps moving South????

[aceinthehole]

Albany and Stony Brook are not moving to this:

Northeastern
Hofstra
Drexel
Delaware
Towson
JMU (one foot out the door)
W&M
UNCW
C of C

Increased travel costs, declining league revenue........why would they want to join another 1 bid hoops league that keeps moving South????

MJ - wouldn't be so confident in that right now. There are only 2 schools south of VA in that scenario. It isn't a "Southern" league yet.

However, if futher CAA expansion starts to goes South to schools like Davidson, App State, Georgia Southern, Elon, Furman, Coastal, etc. then I agree and think SBU and UA would remain very happy in the AE.

[mainejeff]

MJ - wouldn't be so confident in that right now. There are only 2 schools south of VA in that scenario. It isn't a "Southern" league yet.

However, if futher CAA expansion starts to goes South to schools like Davidson, App State, Georgia Southern, Elon, Furman, Coastal, etc. then I agree and think SBU and UA would remain very happy in the AE.

What does a move to the CAA for all sports get them??? They have already obtained the Golden Egg with their CAA Football membership. If they were joining a basketball league with VCU, ODU and GMU then I can totally see them being interested due to a MUCH higher profile and revenue stream for hoops.......or if the league had somehow been able to dangle the "football carrot" to get them to move for all sports. Honestly, I don't think that CAA all-sport members want them (I'm talking presidents and administrators.........not fans that post on message boards). But this is going to work out well for Albany, Stony Brook and America East IMO. There's a reason why AE hasn't moved quicker on new members IMO. ;)

[mainejeff]

At this point, AE will only add new members (like Bryant) if they need to maintain minimum NCAA numbers in certain sports.

[Nova09]

The NEC could get out of it altogether and merge into a Big South North and South division

don't know why everyone but mpls ignored you but this is in serious talks

[Lehigh Football Nation]

don't know why everyone but mpls ignored you but this is in serious talks

Would love a source for that one.

I could see it, if somehow the responsibility for the new conference were split evenly between the Big South and NEC. You'd have a 12, 13, 14 team conference, with best case scenario 10 Big South or NEC members (but more likely 8 - I can't imagine Liberty would be happy, and neither would Coastal).

But there might be some big hurdles to overcome, too. Is this a 63 scholarship conference? Is every school on board with that? Do you sacrifice one autobid, because effectively you'd need to do so?

[Nova09]

I should backtrack a little--from what I've heard, only football is being discussed. And "serious"may have been an overstatement, but NEC commish floated the idea to Big South and there is interest. All the points you bring up are very real obstacles.

[henfan]

What does a move to the CAA for all sports get them???... There's a reason why AE hasn't moved quicker on new members IMO. ;)

You mean aside from a better TV deal, wider exposure and more access to recruiting areas south of NY?

The AEC hasn't moved quicker because they are sitting near the very bottom of the D-I food chain, beneath the A-10, CAA and PL. Aside from a a school or two in the NEC, there just aren't any realistic expansion options available.

[mainejeff]

You mean aside from a better TV deal, wider exposure and more access to recruiting areas south of NY?

The AEC hasn't moved quicker because they are sitting near the very bottom of the D-I food chain, beneath the A-10, CAA and PL. Aside from a a school or two in the NEC, there just aren't any realistic expansion options available.

But there will be........soon. ;)

[hebmskebm]

I should backtrack a little--from what I've heard, only football is being discussed. And "serious"may have been an overstatement, but NEC commish floated the idea to Big South and there is interest. All the points you bring up are very real obstacles.

Everybody knows Liberty is out the door the moment they get an invite anywhere in FBS, so I think they would go along with it, cause hey, they have to play somewhere for the time being and not having to schedule all those OOC games would make things a lot easier. And if the league doesn't limit schollies (the "smoke 'em if you got 'em" model) I would think the rest of the Big South wouldn't mind too much either. It would essentially be the poor man's CAA.

[MplsBison]

Everybody knows Liberty is out the door the moment they get an invite anywhere in FBS, so I think they would go along with it, cause hey, they have to play somewhere for the time being and not having to schedule all those OOC games would make things a lot easier. And if the league doesn't limit schollies (the "smoke 'em if you got 'em" model) I would think the rest of the Big South wouldn't mind too much either. It would essentially be the poor man's CAA.

You'd think Liberty would be like Notre Dame and BYU....being the flagship for evangelical baptists, pentacostals, etc. Seems like they could have their own channel easy enough, in that same sense.

Just can't get into I-A without an invite.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You'd think Liberty would be like Notre Dame and BYU....being the flagship for evangelical baptists, pentacostals, etc. Seems like they could have their own channel easy enough, in that same sense.

Just can't get into I-A without an invite.

Liberty has awesome facilities. If not the top in FCS, certainly in the top 3.

[DFW HOYA]

You'd think Liberty would be like Notre Dame and BYU....being the flagship for evangelical baptists, pentacostals, etc. Seems like they could have their own channel easy enough, in that same sense.
Just can't get into I-A without an invite.

FWIW, Liberty is an evangelical university but evangelicals generally reject Pentacostal teaching.


Liberty has awesome facilities. If not the top in FCS, certainly in the top 3.

Top 3? Maybe Top 5-10. Over and above just the stadium, one would have to consider the investments at places like Montana, JMU, Princeton, App State, and (at least for a few months longer), Old Dominion.

[Dane96]

Liberty has awesome facilities. If not the top in FCS, certainly in the top 3.

Liberty's facilities are nice...but not remotely in the Top 5...let alone Top 3.

Texas Southern
Montana
Appalachian
Tenn State
Princeton
James Madison
UT Chatty

And if age doesn't matter:

Harvard
Yale
Lehigh
Penn

[aceinthehole]

I should backtrack a little--from what I've heard, only football is being discussed. And "serious"may have been an overstatement, but NEC commish floated the idea to Big South and there is interest. All the points you bring up are very real obstacles.

A NEC-Big South merger for football-only is a remote possibility down the road, but it would really be a last ditch effort to ensure that these schools maintain access to the AQ.

The Big South is sitting at the AQ-minimum of 6 teams starting next season, so if they lose anyone (Liberty to FBS, or someone else to the CAA or SoCon) they are screwed - unless of course Campbell is asked (or required) to join the Big South for football.

The Big South will have a harder time of finding associate members in their footprint to stay alive, so I'm not sure what they are planning to do. In that respect, the NEC is still in a better position right now and going forward

[DFW HOYA]

A NEC-Big South merger for football-only is a remote possibility down the road, but it would really be a last ditch effort to ensure that these schools maintain access to the AQ.

Hard to see where schools like St. Francis, Duquesne, and Sacred Heart fit into the Big South.


And if age doesn't matter:
Harvard
Yale
Lehigh
Penn

Maybe it's for another thread, but I welcome what LFN's thoughts are on Goodman Stadium after 20 seasons. The three other stadia listed above are great not only because of their age but that they are enclosed and when you are inside these facilities, football is the only focus. Over the years, I've begun to think that that Goodman Stadium was built a little too expansive and the surroundings of Taylor Stadium added something that South Mountain cannot.

Stadium design (or the lack of a stadium) is one of those elements of a program that you get only one chance to get right every few generations.

[MplsBison]

FWIW, Liberty is an evangelical university but evangelicals generally reject Pentacostal teaching.



Top 3? Maybe Top 5-10. Over and above just the stadium, one would have to consider the investments at places like Montana, JMU, Princeton, App State, and (at least for a few months longer), Old Dominion.

Not to derail the thread, but I thought Evangelical just meant that they actively try to recruit new people into the religion. IE, sending nicely dressed young men door to door. So Mormons fall into that group as well.

Other than the whole speaking in tongues thing, how are Pentecostals and Baptists much different? Most are extreme conservative Christians, even choosing home school for their children.

If you want to see some scary s___t, watch "Jesus Camp".

[aceinthehole]

Hard to see where schools like St. Francis, Duquesne, and Sacred Heart fit into the Big South.

Agreed. As I said, it would be an option of last resort.

Let's just say that for the 2015 season the NEC and the Big South has just 5 football playing members each (and neither league can attract any associate members). Then would make sense to form a 10-team conference of NEC and Big South schools to maintain one AQ? By no means is it ideal for either side, but in the end it all comes down to the AQ. As long as each conference can keep their AQ (with or without associates), they will move forward separately.

As bad as some things look for the NEC’s football future, I maintain that Big South football is in a slightly worse position going forward. The NEC can likely go on with all-sport defections of MU, Bryant and CCSU, if those schools are willing and allowed to keep football in the NEC as an associate. The Big South will likely lose teams because of other football conferences.

[danefan]

Agreed. As I said, it would be an option of last resort.

Let's just say that for the 2015 season the NEC and the Big South has just 5 football playing members each (and neither league can attract any associate members). Then would make sense to form a 10-team conference of NEC and Big South schools to maintain one AQ? By no means is it ideal for either side, but in the end it all comes down to the AQ. As long as each conference can keep their AQ (with or without associates), they will move forward separately.

As bad as some things look for the NEC’s football future, I maintain that Big South football is in a slightly worse position going forward. The NEC can likely go on with all-sport defections of MU, Bryant and CCSU, if those schools are willing and allowed to keep football in the NEC as an associate. The Big South will likely lose teams because of other football conferences.

Don't the 6 teams need to have been playing together for a period of two years? If so, then the NEC-BS merger wouldn't help them save the autobid unless they did it proactively.

[aceinthehole]

Don't the 6 teams need to have been playing together for a period of two years? If so, then the NEC-BS merger wouldn't help them save the autobid unless they did it proactively.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think you need 1) 5 teams playing together for 2 years and b) a minimum 6-team league. I think they are 2 seperate requirements, which could be met.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Big South is sitting at the AQ-minimum of 6 teams starting next season, so if they lose anyone (Liberty to FBS, or someone else to the CAA or SoCon) they are screwed - unless of course Campbell is asked (or required) to join the Big South for football.

Or Monmouth could join the Big South as a football-only member.

[aceinthehole]

Or Monmouth could join the Big South as a football-only member.

Huh? Monmouth has stated it will apply to the NEC for football. All indications are that the NEC schools will approve their application.

What are you trying to stir up that isn't there?

Monmouth has no interest in applying to the Big South for football, unless the NEC denies their application. The NEC doesn't want to lose Monmouth as a football member, so they are not likley to deny the application.

What is everyone else missing that you seem to have figured out?

[dgreco]

Do we have any indication who the other 3 schools are? I am assuming one is CCSU

[MplsBison]

Don't the 6 teams need to have been playing together for a period of two years? If so, then the NEC-BS merger wouldn't help them save the autobid unless they did it proactively.

Or if the NCAA basically said "ya know...no one gives a crap about I-AA football anyway...you guys are good enough, here ya go".

[danefan]

Or if the NCAA basically said "ya know...no one gives a crap about I-AA football anyway...you guys are good enough, here ya go".

Never happened before and will never happen in the future.

The minimum number of teams in a conference is a rule that the NCAA has never budged on for FCS football.

[superman7515]

Or if the NCAA basically said "ya know...no one gives a crap about I-AA football anyway...you guys are good enough, here ya go".

I dream of the day when advancements in medical science allow me to be shrunken to microscopic size and injected into your spinal fluid. Once there I will travel in a miniature submarine up your verterbal artery into your cerebellum where I will take a pill allowing me to return to normal size, exploding your temporal, occipital, and parietal bones and rendering your body into a pink mist.

[Dane96]

And folks...that's a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

POST-OF-THE-YEAR!!!!

[NHwildEcat]

If the NEC is proactive I think it may keep Bryant around, however, if things linger I can see Bryant jumping ship. Also, I was always an advocate of seeing an LIU-Post, Bentley, New Haven type school move up, but I wonder if Bryant would jump if schools like that moved up.

As an alum of a NE-10 schools, I would love for SNHU to move up. Money is a plenty at the school right now and a shift with a new AD comign on board in 2013 could signal a change in past philosphy.

[Laker]

I dream of the day when advancements in medical science allow me to be shrunken to microscopic size and injected into your spinal fluid. Once there I will travel in a miniature submarine up your verterbal artery into your cerebellum where I will take a pill allowing me to return to normal size, exploding your temporal, occipital, and parietal bones and rendering your body into a pink mist.

This reminds me of Raquel Welch in a tight body suit in Fantastic Voyage! Great movie.

[MplsBison]

Never happened before and will never happen in the future.

The minimum number of teams in a conference is a rule that the NCAA has never budged on for FCS football.

Wasn't talking about that and you know it.

Read. Comprehend.

[MplsBison]

I dream of the day when advancements in medical science allow me to be shrunken to microscopic size and injected into your spinal fluid. Once there I will travel in a miniature submarine up your verterbal artery into your cerebellum where I will take a pill allowing me to return to normal size, exploding your temporal, occipital, and parietal bones and rendering your body into a pink mist.

That's sick. How is it possible for a human to even conjure such a fantasy, I wonder?

[Laker]

I dream of the day when advancements in medical science allow me to be shrunken to microscopic size and injected into your spinal fluid. Once there I will travel in a miniature submarine up your verterbal artery into your cerebellum where I will take a pill allowing me to return to normal size, exploding your temporal, occipital, and parietal bones and rendering your body into a pink mist.


That's sick. How is it possible for a human to even conjure such a fantasy, I wonder?

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/fantastic-voyage/

[MplsBison]

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/fantastic-voyage/

I see. So....about the people who wrote the plot for that movie....

That's sick. How is it possible for a human to even conjure such a fantasy, I wonder?

[Laker]

I see. So....about the people who wrote the plot for that movie....

That's sick. How is it possible for a human to even conjure such a fantasy, I wonder?

It was the 60s. Science fiction was big back then- or in this case, very small. And the science fantasy of Raquel Welch ...........