GSU offensive scheme

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I can't find the thread from last year where I was arguing with some people after last year's GSU-NDSU game because the search feature is horrible, so I will just use this thread to call out those folks that I was arguing with or anyone who basically agrees with them. Specifically, the folks that believe our offense is antiquated or that you can't move the ball on a "disciplined" defense.

The 430 yards and 3 offensive TDs speaks for itself. For those of you who would say I'm trying to claim a "moral victory" here, bite me. I'm speaking strictly about our offensive scheme here. Considering the crazy amount of noise in the Fargo Dome (which IMO the loudest venue in the) basically made it almost impossible for us to use our shotgun sets and created so many penalties and burnt time outs for us, that was very good.

That's all. Congrats NDSU.

[MR. CHICKEN]

17393.....AGREED IGGLE.....ALL DUH FALSE STARTS....NOISE INDUCED...MAH THOUGHTS.....EGG-ZAKLEE.....xnodx.....AWK!

[Bisonator]

But what happens at the end when you are down and need a score?

[AppinATL]

I can't find the thread from last year where I was arguing with some people after last year's GSU-NDSU game because the search feature is horrible, so I will just use this thread to call out those folks that I was arguing with or anyone who basically agrees with them. Specifically, the folks that believe our offense is antiquated or that you can't move the ball on a "disciplined" defense.

The 430 yards and 3 offensive TDs speaks for itself. For those of you who would say I'm trying to claim a "moral victory" here, bite me. I'm speaking strictly about our offensive scheme here. Considering the crazy amount of noise in the Fargo Dome (which IMO the loudest venue in the) basically made it almost impossible for us to use our shotgun sets and created so many penalties and burnt time outs for us, that was very good.

That's all. Congrats NDSU.


Your TO offense is all well and good up to a point, but when you get behind and get in a situation where you have to throw , you are screwed six ways to Sunday. Same goes for GA Tech. You threw it better tonight than I have seen including a couple of big plays and it still was not enough. If App ever went to the TO, I'd quit watching football.

[Reign of Terrier]

But what happens at the end when you are down and need a score?

You know, I hear this argument a lot, but I honestly don't understand it. What's the definition of "down" and "need a score?" Are we down a field goal? How much time is left?

If you're going to say that a triple option team can't score from 50 yards away with a minute left with no timeouts, I would agree with you.

But I would also say that the same could be said about any offense, spare an air raid offense.

If GSU had their timeouts, they get closer and maybe score. So, I think your point is slightly invalid considering they went 42 yards in like a minute with no timeouts.



Triple option is a valid offense, it just needs the discipline, defense, and lack of turnovers to compliment it. The Georgia Southern teams that won National championships had that. There have been some good Wofford teams and GSU teams as of late that had maybe 2 of those but not all phases and it's the difference between teams being in consideration for "best ever" and being a forgotten quarter/semifinalist

[GSU Eagle]

Well we tried to go away from the option with BVG and Hatcher. It did not go well. Many, many GSU fans are convinced that Ga. Southern cannot be successful without the option.

[Sycamore62]

But what happens at the end when you are down and need a score?

Sometimes you throw an interception and loose.

[silkamilkamonico]

Last year NDSU had Perry who basically stuffed the middle all game long and also Heagle who was outstanding on the perimeter. Both were hurt earlier this year. Even if they were healthy enough to play GSU would have moved the ball, but I do think the yards would have been cut down a bit.

GSU's offense was very tough.

[Bisonoline]

But what happens at the end when you are down and need a score?

Of course you can win with the TO. The trick is to also have a passing attack when needed. If you watch the game they did pretty well passing against us. You just need more balance and a QB who also can throw the ball. Just not run it all the time.

[eaglewraith]

It doesn't matter what scheme you run, execution is what makes it successful or not. We didn't do what we needed to win the game in the 4th quarter. That's not a flaw of the spread option offense. That's a fact of life in football. You don't make the plays, you won't win.

[Mr. C]

But what happens at the end when you are down and need a score?

You just find out who Marcus Williams is covering and go from there ...

[AmsterBison]

It doesn't matter what scheme you run, execution is what makes it successful or not. We didn't do what we needed to win the game in the 4th quarter. That's not a flaw of the spread option offense. That's a fact of life in football. You don't make the plays, you won't win.

^ What he said.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

But what happens at the end when you are down and need a score?

Your offense isn't exactly a quick-strike offense, either. Just a dink-and-dunk with power running. I doubt if you guys would have made an 80 yard drive in 3 minutes.

[Mr. C]

Your TO offense is all well and good up to a point, but when you get behind and get in a situation where you have to throw , you are screwed six ways to Sunday. Same goes for GA Tech. You threw it better tonight than I have seen including a couple of big plays and it still was not enough. If App ever went to the TO, I'd quit watching football.

I guess some of you newbies forget that App State was a triple option team under Jim Brakefield in the 1970s and ran the Nebraska I Formation option under Jerry Moore for the better part of 1989-2003.

[FargoBison]

You just find out who Marcus Williams is covering and go from there ...

Teams have lost games throwing at Marcus...he messed up today but he will be back.

[seantaylor]

Our offense is really good. Our offensive coordinator is very questionable. I bet Monken pulls the reigns from him next year. We had so many short yardage situations where we were going double option with Swope a non factor. It was madness. Don't even get me started on the first and ten throw when we had been running it down their throats the entire game.

[BisonBohl]

You just find out who Marcus Williams is covering and go from there ...

Wow really, such garbage comment. Easy to attack a kid for one bad play. How many times has it gone that way??? Really just a douchebag statement to make...good grief.

[word]

Sometimes you throw an interception and loose.

Your right...ipso facto you are the MVFC champs...SOCON champs....and in the title game...Wait..your not?

[Saint3333]

If GSU had a kicker they win this game. Said it before the playoffs started that would be the difference in them winning it all. Same story as the App game this year.

[penguinpower]

Your TO offense is all well and good up to a point, but when you get behind and get in a situation where you have to throw , you are screwed six ways to Sunday. Same goes for GA Tech. You threw it better tonight than I have seen including a couple of big plays and it still was not enough. If App ever went to the TO, I'd quit watching football.

Good point. I would like to add that while it is an effective offense in most cases, I just can't stand watching it. It is painful for me to watch. Looks like they run the same play over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. I would much rather watch a prostyle or a spread.

[penguinpower]

Our offense is really good. Our offensive coordinator is very questionable. I bet Monken pulls the reigns from him next year. We had so many short yardage situations where we were going double option with Swope a non factor. It was madness. Don't even get me started on the first and ten throw when we had been running it down their throats the entire game.

I didn't know that an offensive coordinator was required in the TO. Looks to me like there are 3 plays: Inside veer, outside veer, and pass. The option is within each set. Is an OC really necessary since the scheme is the same and the plays are the same? This offense basically telegraphs the run and tells the other team we are going to run it and you just go ahead and try to stop us, Not state with the tone to insult.

I hate watching it at any level. Ga Tech will never win it as long as they are running it IMOP.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

Of course you can win with the TO. The trick is to also have a passing attack when needed. If you watch the game they did pretty well passing against us. You just need more balance and a QB who also can throw the ball. Just not run it all the time.



I didn't expect for GSU to have double the passing yards of NDSU. 159 for GSU to 76 for NDSU. I figured it would be the other way around.

It's an odd day when you check the box score after the game and the passing leader is an option QB, the rushing leader is the same guy, and the receiving leader is an option running back. It's even more odd when the option team has 430 yards compared to the traditional style team's 276 yards. Yet the option team loses the game.


It was a great game, but wow are those stats bizarre.

[eaglewraith]

I didn't expect for GSU to have double the passing yards of NDSU. 159 for GSU to 76 for NDSU. I figured it would be the other way around.

It's an odd day when you check the box score after the game and the passing leader is an option QB, the rushing leader is the same guy, and the receiving leader is an option running back. It's even more odd when the option team has 430 yards compared to the traditional style team's 276 yards. Yet the option team loses the game.


It was a great game, but wow are those stats bizarre.

Mistakes. We lead that stat line as well. And NDSU is good enough to make us pay for those mistakes.

That's the difference.

[MR. CHICKEN]

17395.....WHIFF DUH BIZON D's STRONG PURSUIT......AH'D UH RUN MO'....MIS-DIRECTION/REVERSES...AS MCKINNON WAS SO SUCCESSFUL ON HIS 20 SOMETHIN' YARD SCAMPERS...BUT HEY...AH'M UH CHICKEN.....NOT AN IGGLE.......xdontknowx.....AWK!

[CropDuster]

I didn't know that an offensive coordinator was required in the TO. Looks to me like there are 3 plays: Inside veer, outside veer, and pass. The option is within each set. Is an OC really necessary since the scheme is the same and the plays are the same? This offense basically telegraphs the run and tells the other team we are going to run it and you just go ahead and try to stop us, Not state with the tone to insult.

I hate watching it at any level. Ga Tech will never win it as long as they are running it IMOP.

Just because you're ignorant of option football doesn't mean it's ineffective or boring. We have 6 NCs running the option. And what will GT not win? The ACC championship in 2009? Do Air Raid and Run and Shoot teams not telegraph that they are going to pass the ball?

[CommishBigSmooth]

The TO is a very effective offense, especially the way GSU runs it with McKinnon at QB. How many times were they in 2nd and 6 or less last night- the efficiency is great.

But it also doesn't leave you a lot of margin for error in a game if you need it. I know penalties hurt teams no matter what type of offense they run, but when you put a TO team in 1st and 15, 2nd and 15, and they pass so little, it seems even more crippling when a guy false starts, two men go in motion, etc. Those five yards make a huge difference in a grind-it-out offense when you can't throw with consistency.

I don't think the scheme is an issue. My continued issue is the complete lack of attention to the kicking game. The game is called FOOTball after all, and I'll never understand why elite programs at FCS and FBS don't realize how important it is until they lose a game like this. Most of the year you don't worry about getting three points because you are so much better than your competition. In the playoffs, where the talent gap and coaching gap are small when elite teams are compared, the kicking game gets attention---because it usually is discussed in the context of why they lost.

[Hammerhead]

NDSU won a few D-II championships running the veer offense in the 80s and two of our coaches wrote a book about it. http://www.amazon.com/Explosive-Veer-Offense-Winning-Football/dp/0132980185
Of course, it helps when you have a wide receiver like Stacey Robinson who played for six years with the New York Giants.

Penalties killed many Bison drives this season too since we don't have many plays that go for long yardage except for a few draw plays and long runs like last night where there is nobody to stop the running back once he gets 5 yards.

[slostang]

You know, I hear this argument a lot, but I honestly don't understand it. What's the definition of "down" and "need a score?" Are we down a field goal? How much time is left?

If you're going to say that a triple option team can't score from 50 yards away with a minute left with no timeouts, I would agree with you.

But I would also say that the same could be said about any offense, spare an air raid offense.

If GSU had their timeouts, they get closer and maybe score. So, I think your point is slightly invalid considering they went 42 yards in like a minute with no timeouts.



Triple option is a valid offense, it just needs the discipline, defense, and lack of turnovers to compliment it. The Georgia Southern teams that won National championships had that. There have been some good Wofford teams and GSU teams as of late that had maybe 2 of those but not all phases and it's the difference between teams being in consideration for "best ever" and being a forgotten quarter/semifinalist

Cal Poly led the FCS in both scoring and yards running the triple optioning 2008. Of course it helps when you have Ramses Barden at WR and a QB that can get him the ball. He burned them evert time he safeties cheated up to help stop he run. Cal Poly threw for 1991 yards (181 yards a game) and ran for over 300 yards a game out of the triple option in 2008. That was a fun offense to watch.

[Mr. C]

I didn't know that an offensive coordinator was required in the TO. Looks to me like there are 3 plays: Inside veer, outside veer, and pass. The option is within each set. Is an OC really necessary since the scheme is the same and the plays are the same? This offense basically telegraphs the run and tells the other team we are going to run it and you just go ahead and try to stop us, Not state with the tone to insult.

I hate watching it at any level. Ga Tech will never win it as long as they are running it IMOP.

There is a version of Paul Johnson's playbook from the 1990s that is actually online for all to see. It is quite interesting. Here is the link, which has been presented on AGS before:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2939824/1990s-Georgia-Southern-Option-Offense-Paul-Johnson

I happen to own a book that former Georgia Southern coach Tim Stowers wrote with Barry Switzer "Coaching Football's Spread Offense" and published by Coaches Choice Books. This is not to be confused with Urban Meyer's misappropriation of the term "Spread Option." It is available on Amazon, new and used, but at exorbitant prices (why do people think someone will pay several hundred dollars for an obscure title?). There are a few more plays than you seem to think and the offense has actually grown over the years, with new, modern formation, etc.

[Mr. C]

Wow really, such garbage comment. Easy to attack a kid for one bad play. How many times has it gone that way??? Really just a douchebag statement to make...good grief.

Have a sense of humor and calm down. Marcus Williams has been chosen to our All-American teams, It was a joke.

[ebirToG]

Just because you're ignorant of option football doesn't mean it's ineffective or boring. We have 6 NCs running the option. And what will GT not win? The ACC championship in 2009? Do Air Raid and Run and Shoot teams not telegraph that they are going to pass the ball?

Didn't take long for the 6 NC statement to be made... isn't that getting a bit old? Pun intended. TO aside GSU's offense is too one dimensional right now. They were more successful in the past because the TO is hard to defend without the right mix of players with speed... more teams have that now than in the 80's.

[gsu_paintballer]

Didn't take long for the 6 NC statement to be made... isn't that getting a bit old? Pun intended. TO aside GSU's offense is too one dimensional right now. They were more successful in the past because the TO is hard to defend without the right mix of players with speed... more teams have that now than in the 80's.

We put up 271 rushing yards and 159 passing yards on one of (if not the) best defenses in FCS and people are questioning our offensive scheme.

Weird.

[CropDuster]

Didn't take long for the 6 NC statement to be made... isn't that getting a bit old? Pun intended. TO aside GSU's offense is too one dimensional right now. They were more successful in the past because the TO is hard to defend without the right mix of players with speed... more teams have that now than in the 80's.

You want to talk success, are 3 semifinal appearances in a row more fresh for you? 4 in the last decade while running the option which includes 4 years of no playoff appearances running something else? WTF have the Penguins done in the last decade? GSU did not lose last night due to their option offense, just like ODU did not lose last week because of their passing offense.

[GlassOnion]

Georgia Southern is welcome to run any offense they please, and welcome to it. For me the triple option at times seems to be a liabilty. Certain games, certain injuries, certain situations, you can really be screwed. At least in a balanced offense, if something goes wrong, youve still got a chance.

[CropDuster]

Georgia Southern is welcome to run any offense they please, and welcome to it. For me the triple option at times seems to be a liabilty. Certain games, certain injuries, certain situations, you can really be screwed. At least in a balanced offense, if something goes wrong, youve still got a chance.

You don't think those certainties affect every team? How about that safety yall got in 08 because App refused to run from under center? How about being mediocre in running and passing just for the sake of "balance". GSU's championship teams could pass when they (rarely) had to, that is the difference the last few years, yet we are still a top 4 team three years in a row. GSU has had the most consistent and dominating offenses in the history of the division running the option, please stop the lecturing from programs that have been sitting at home in December a lot more than we have. xrolleyesx

[ebirToG]

You want to talk success, are 3 semifinal appearances in a row more fresh for you? 4 in the last decade while running the option which includes 4 years of no playoff appearances running something else? WTF have the Penguins done in the last decade? GSU did not lose last night due to their option offense, just like ODU did not lose last week because of their passing offense.

Perfect! That I like. All GSU people can start using the tag line "3 years in a row finishing 3/4 in FCS" to show their dominance. It is a great resume and more relevant at least until the big jump...

[ebirToG]

We put up 271 rushing yards and 159 passing yards on one of (if not the) best defenses in FCS and people are questioning our offensive scheme.

Weird.
Yep good game.

[kdinva]

We put up 271 rushing yards and 159 passing yards on one of (if not the) best defenses in FCS.

Weird.

hell of a game last night......someone had to win.......

[penguinpower]

What is up with all the sensitvity about this topic? No I do not tlike to watch it. ANY offense that cannot pass and ANY offense that cannot run will not win a NC. What I was saying is that Ga Tech can't pass and therefore they cant win a NC even if they have a NC defense.

[GlassOnion]

You don't think those certainties affect every team? How about that safety yall got in 08 because App refused to run from under center? How about being mediocre in running and passing just for the sake of "balance". GSU's championship teams could pass when they (rarely) had to, that is the difference the last few years, yet we are still a top 4 team three years in a row. GSU has had the most consistent and dominating offenses in the history of the division running the option, please stop the lecturing from programs that have been sitting at home in December a lot more than we have. xrolleyesx

You mean please stop lecturing from a team that has beaten #1 GaSo 2 years in a row, home and away, In the two worst seasons in nearly a decade? The team that beat GSU with the 90th ranked defense in the country, That team?

The difference between the 1990s and now is that just about every mid to upper division 1 school's defense is a step and a half faster than they used to be when the power I ruled college football.

Georgia Southern averages just 5 yards more a game than App, yet App can win either throwing or running the ball, with a 1300 yard freshman WR or a 1300 yard RB. Slow down GSU's run, and theyre screwed.

And since 2004, App's offense has been mediocre just 1 year, and luckily we were able to pawn the people responsible for it off on Western, and return to top 10 offense, even after losing the 33rd overall pick in the draft Brian Quick, Travaris Cadet, currently a Saint, and a Walter Payton finalist and NFL player in Deandre Presley. If there is any knock on App, it isnt offense.

[BisonBohl]

Have a sense of humor and calm down. Marcus Williams has been chosen to our All-American teams, It was a joke.

Sorry, use to purple font with these statements.

[Reign of Terrier]

I love how everyone says "stop the run in the option and you're screwed"

^^^that qualifies as something easier said than done.

It's like saying, stop Texas Tech's pass game and you're screwed....

And I would argue that it's easier to do that than it is to stop the option seeing as you can pressure the QB, etc.

[CID1990]

The TO is a perfectly valid offense in FCS. Run well, it can power any team into a deep run in the playoffs.

The TO didnt cost GSU, breakdowns in discipline did. Penalties killed them.

[Reign of Terrier]

Sorry, use to purple font with these statements.

that is something literally only NDSU people do....

[gsu_paintballer]

The TO is a perfectly valid offense in FCS. Run well, it can power any team into a deep run in the playoffs.

The TO didnt cost GSU, breakdowns in discipline did. Penalties killed them.

This.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The TO is a perfectly valid offense in FCS. Run well, it can power any team into a deep run in the playoffs.

The TO didnt cost GSU, breakdowns in discipline did. Penalties killed them.

It's a good offense at any level. I know people like to use Tech as an example of why it supposedly doesn't work at the highest level, but their recruiting has been very sub-par for an ACC team. I would take the McKinnon-Swope duo over Tevin Washington and David Simms. I'm serious when I say that.

[swaghook]

The triple option offense really works best when you have the added dimension of genuine passing threat.

[eaglewraith]

The triple option offense really works best when you have the added dimension of genuine passing threat.

This.

If we could put Izzy's arm on McKinnon......holy god.

[seantaylor]

You mean please stop lecturing from a team that has beaten #1 GaSo 2 years in a row, home and away, In the two worst seasons in nearly a decade? The team that beat GSU with the 90th ranked defense in the country, That team?

The difference between the 1990s and now is that just about every mid to upper division 1 school's defense is a step and a half faster than they used to be when the power I ruled college football.

Georgia Southern averages just 5 yards more a game than App, yet App can win either throwing or running the ball, with a 1300 yard freshman WR or a 1300 yard RB. Slow down GSU's run, and theyre screwed.

And since 2004, App's offense has been mediocre just 1 year, and luckily we were able to pawn the people responsible for it off on Western, and return to top 10 offense, even after losing the 33rd overall pick in the draft Brian Quick, Travaris Cadet, currently a Saint, and a Walter Payton finalist and NFL player in Deandre Presley. If there is any knock on App, it isnt offense.

GSU is Appys Super Bowl. Appy is terrible. Can't beat anyone else. Cannot beat bad teams at home in the playoffs. A team that only was strong when GSU hired two retards.

[GlassOnion]

GSU is Appys Super Bowl. Appy is terrible. Can't beat anyone else. Cannot beat bad teams at home in the playoffs. A team that only was strong when GSU hired two retards.

At least App can kick a field goal... Back to the drawing board for the buzzards.

[citdog]

At least App can kick a field goal... Back to the drawing board for the buzzards.


no problem up there making extra points at all

[blueballs]

At least App can kick a field goal... Back to the drawing board for the buzzards.

As far as the place kicking goes you are correct.

As for GSU's offense, which is the theme of this thread, the only lose OL DeBartola, SB Robinson, and TE Sumner of the starters and major contributors. If they stay healthy and are in FCS next year that offense will be absolutely lethal.

[Saint3333]

GSU is Appys Super Bowl. Appy is terrible. Can't beat anyone else. Cannot beat bad teams at home in the playoffs. A team that only was strong when GSU hired two retards.

Do you really watch football or just post on message boards. That was quite an ignorant post, you've really outdone yourself.

[mountaineer in Cane Land]

just ignore him, he is trolling for attention, doesnt have a clue about App.

[CID1990]

Do you really watch football or just post on message boards. That was quite an ignorant post, you've really outdone yourself.

Don't feed the troll. Even the other GSU fans think Battling Bishop boy is a turd.

[seantaylor]

Don't feed the troll. Even the other GSU fans think Battling Bishop boy is a turd.

El Chit fan talking smack. Love it.

[GATA]

GSU's offensive numbers speak for themselves. There in no debate here. We score a ton of points and move the ball on the ground at will.Next.