Big East Breakup FCS Ramifications

[Lehigh Football Nation]

With the seven Big East schools finally appearing to break off from the rest of the Big East...

Villanova
Georgetown
St. John's
Providence
Seton Hall
DePaul
Marquette

... what does this mean for the FCS world?

* UConn is stuck in FBS with a bunch of Conference USA schools, a cross-country schedule, and a pathetic TV contract. Same with Temple. What do they do? Do they stick it out in FBS? Is a thought given to downgrade to FCS?

* UMass can stay put in the MAC in football and the A-10 in hoops. Or they could be added to the new hoops-only Big East. Their first season in FBS has not been a success, and suddenly, their great aspiration, Big East football, has morphed into C-USA football. Do they stay in the MAC and lose money? Do they get together with UConn and Temple to work something out in FBS? Do they follow what their faculty have been publicly been bidding for, which is a downgrade back to FCS?

* Speculation is rampant that the new Big East will poach other quality hoops schools, and George Mason of the CAA has been mentioned by name. How does that affect the CAA? Even if they only raid the A-10, as has been speculated, will the A-10 try to reload with CAA teams? MAAC teams?

* If the CAA gets raided, how does that trickle down to other leagues - the Patriot League, the NEC, America East?

* Will any of these leagues be recognizable when all is said and done? And will they coalesce around FCS football at all?

[dbackjon]

UConn won't go back to FCS - too big of a stadium, etc.


There are enough leftovers to put together a decent all sportsl conference

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UConn won't go back to FCS - too big of a stadium, etc.


There are enough leftovers to put together a decent all sportsl conference

I'm not so sure. Unless the ACC blows up next. Which I don't think will happen.

[GannonFan]

George Mason isn't the attractive basketbally entity they would've been a few years ago. Their success was tied to an old coach and one miracle year. The coach is gone and people remember VCU going just as far and they have a young coach they pay a lot of money to.

Not sure the CAA gets impacted much from this. The basketball-intense schools from the CAA (VCU and ODU) are already gone. UD show's no interest in moving up to FBS and JMU doesn't seem to have a place to go.

[walliver]

I suspect the residual Football members and new members continue along in a new conference with a new name. Boise State will likely have second thoughts.

The schools that bolted from C-USA to join the Big East probably would be ashamed to return, and will go on with the move. Even if "Big East" TV rights go down by 15-20% with the loss of the basketball schools, it is still a lot of money for the teams involved.

Most of the new schools added over the last several years are there primarily for football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If there are enough "scraps" to form a new all-sports conference based on UConn, UMass, and Temple, would other FCS teams listen, like Delaware, JMU, Liberty? Others? Might other existing FBS schools join, like ECU, ODU?

[PantherRob82]

If the MVC gets touched, Creighton specifically, UNI and Illinois State may push harder at an FBS move to the MAC.

[GannonFan]

If there are enough "scraps" to form a new all-sports conference based on UConn, UMass, and Temple, would other FCS teams listen, like Delaware, JMU, Liberty? Others? Might other existing FBS schools join, like ECU, ODU?

Now that's something I think could happen. IMO, the one thing UD could move up for would be a stable, all sports conference built around schools that fit somewhat geographically. Almost a MAC East if you will, although they wouldn't need to be affiliated with the MAC as they could exist on their own. It would almost be like the idea many here had in the past that the CAA could move up as an entity - this would be one way to essentially do that in effect, if not exactly like that. I think from a UD perspective it could be interesting - obviously there is a long, amicable relationship with UConn and UMass, and certainly with JMU and recently with ODU. Temple was THE rival for UD for many, many years, even far surpassing nova in terms of excitement and interest. That would be great to get that back. And an FBS UD could even then look to get teams like Navy, Army, CUSA teams, etc, to come play in Newark, where those teams would never come if UD remains FCS.

The negative here is whether UConn or Temple would want their b-ball programs in a conference like this, and also the negative that a UConn could be a short time resident if they did get a call to a different conference.

[FargoBison]

I think it is only a matter of time until UConn is in the ACC.

[Neighbor2]

For truth, or not, the Patriot League will have NO part in any of this. Their academic standard, and self-esteem, will never allow consideration of any displaced schools.

[dbackjon]

I'm not so sure. Unless the ACC blows up next. Which I don't think will happen.

UConn
Cinci
Temple
USF
UCF
SMU
Houston
Memphis
East Carolina
Tulane

All would need homes.

Add best of the rest of C-USA:
Rice, USM and Tulsa.

[aceinthehole]

* UConn is stuck in FBS with a bunch of Conference USA schools, a cross-country schedule, and a pathetic TV contract. Same with Temple. What do they do? Do they stick it out in FBS? Is a thought given to downgrade to FCS?

LFN - you should think about sci-fi writing. You are just insane.

UConn going back to FCS is not hapening, period.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN - you should think about sci-fi writing. You are just insane.

UConn going back to FCS is not hapening, period.

Thanks for your keen insightful comment. It's been noted. Now make way for people who really want to discuss things.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

UConn
Cinci
USF
UCF
SMU
Houston
Memphis
East Carolina
Tulane

All would need homes.

Add best of the rest of C-USA:
Rice, USM and Tulsa.

If Temple doesn't end up with Cincy, Memphis and Uconn you might as well turn off the lights at the Liacouras Center on North Borad.

[aceinthehole]

Thanks for your keen insightful comment. It's been noted. Now make way for people who really want to discuss things.

Suggesting UConn might consider FCS isn't insightful at all, but I guess that is what you do best - fantasy sports blogging. :)

[clenz]

I'm waiting for LFN to issues a retraction on his comments about ASU/Moore....though he never will.


What great journalism.

[dbackjon]

If Temple doesn't end up with Cincy, Memphis and Uconn you might as well turn off the lights at the Liacouras Center on North Borad.

You are right - I knew I was forgetting someone.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Suggesting UConn might consider FCS isn't insightful at all, but I guess that is what you do best - fantasy sports blogging. :)

So what are UConn's options?

1. Stay with remnants of C-USA league in FBS football and hoops. Hoops goes down the crapper. Huge travel expenses. Who's their big rival, Temple?

2. Wait by the phone and hope the phone rings, and the ACC is on the line. (Which isn't happening.)

3. Sever ties with C-USA league, join the new Big East, and find a place to park their FBS program. If they choose the MAC, they gain a rival (UMass, if they stay) but suddenly they are hemorrhaging money. UMass didn't exactly earn a lot of money last year in the MAC. Or they could try to stick it out in the new C-USA league in football, and hemorrhage money that way.

4. Sever ties with C-USA league, join the new Big East, and drop football. Rentschler Field remains as a cautionary tale to all who think "build it, and they will come". This way will lose the least amount of money, but it will be utterly humiliating.

5. Create new all-sports league from scratch, along with Temple, and probably UMass, other FBS schools, and other FCS schools looking to move up. It will be expensive, and it will be below the current level of MAC football, and maybe Sun Belt football. Also, quite possibly, A-10 basketball.

When presented with those options, severing ties with new C-USA, joining the Big East hoops-only league, and going with UMass back down to FCS isn't exactly the work of "science fiction."

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm waiting for LFN to issues a retraction on his comments about ASU/Moore....though he never will.


What great journalism.

Ummm... huh?

[dbackjon]

So what are UConn's options?

1. Stay with remnants of C-USA league in FBS football and hoops. Hoops goes down the crapper. Huge travel expenses. Who's their big rival, Temple?
2. Wait by the phone and hope the phone rings, and the ACC is on the line. (Which isn't happening.)
3. Sever ties with C-USA league, join the new Big East, and find a place to park their FBS program. If they choose the MAC, they gain a rival (UMass, if they stay) but suddenly they are hemorrhaging money. UMass didn't exactly earn a lot of money last year in the MAC. Or they could try to stick it out in the new C-USA league in football, and hemorrhage money that way.
4. Sever ties with C-USA league, join the new Big East, and drop football. Rentschler Field remains as a cautionary tale to all who think "build it, and they will come".
5. Create new all-sports league from scratch, along with Temple, and probably UMass, other FBS schools, and other FCS schools.

When presented with those options, severing ties with new C-USA, joining the Big East hoops-only league, and going with UMass back down to FCS isn't exactly the work of "science fiction."

The league I posted would have hoops as good as the Catholics, if not better.

[FargoBison]

Just watch ESPN get UConn in the ACC....it will happen.

[HailSzczur]

So what are UConn's options?

1. Stay with remnants of C-USA league in FBS football and hoops. Hoops goes down the crapper. Huge travel expenses. Who's their big rival, Temple?

2. Wait by the phone and hope the phone rings, and the ACC is on the line. (Which isn't happening.)

3. Sever ties with C-USA league, join the new Big East, and find a place to park their FBS program. If they choose the MAC, they gain a rival (UMass, if they stay) but suddenly they are hemorrhaging money. UMass didn't exactly earn a lot of money last year in the MAC. Or they could try to stick it out in the new C-USA league in football, and hemorrhage money that way.

4. Sever ties with C-USA league, join the new Big East, and drop football. Rentschler Field remains as a cautionary tale to all who think "build it, and they will come". This way will lose the least amount of money, but it will be utterly humiliating.

5. Create new all-sports league from scratch, along with Temple, and probably UMass, other FBS schools, and other FCS schools looking to move up. It will be expensive, and it will be below the current level of MAC football, and maybe Sun Belt football.

When presented with those options, severing ties with new C-USA, joining the Big East hoops-only league, and going with UMass back down to FCS isn't exactly the work of "science fiction."

1. That's possible, actually very possible. It would suck for them but oh well, I don't feel bad for them.

2. ACC is never, every going to call. For 1 if the ACC did anything it would be in pairs so UConn would need a buddy (Cincy?) which complicates things a little.

3. The most likely response. Honestly the CYO BE would be happy to have them, solid program, helps anchor out the East Coast side of the conference and keeps them with some rivals.

4. Not going to happen. If anything they would return to FCS before ever thinking about dropping football.

5. Never

[Lehigh Football Nation]

1. That's possible, actually very possible. It would suck for them but oh well, I don't feel bad for them.

2. ACC is never, every going to call. For 1 if the ACC did anything it would be in pairs so UConn would need a buddy (Cincy?) which complicates things a little.

3. The most likely response. Honestly the CYO BE would be happy to have them, solid program, helps anchor out the East Coast side of the conference and keeps them with some rivals.

4. Not going to happen. If anything they would return to FCS before ever thinking about dropping football.

5. Never

Interesting. 3, followed by 1, followed by a dropdown to FCS. "Science Fiction" indeed.

[Laker]

I think it is only a matter of time until UConn is in the ACC.

Why does the ACC NOT want UConn? I can't figure that out. Great basketball both men and women. Football could be a lot better. But still.

[HailSzczur]

Interesting. 3, followed by 1, followed by a dropdown to FCS. "Science Fiction" indeed.

I put the chances of UConn not playing FBS football 10 years from now at about 0.1%. All I was saying is I think a drop to FCS would precede cutting the program

[FargoBison]

Why does the ACC NOT want UConn? I can't figure that out. Great basketball both men and women. Football could be a lot better. But still.

My guess is that Florida State isn't excited about them joining and moved the football schools to pushing for L-Ville.

[HailSzczur]

Why does the ACC NOT want UConn? I can't figure that out. Great basketball both men and women. Football could be a lot better. But still.

Football is a big reason. Calhoun also didn't exactly endear himself to a ton of people. Personally I know there are more than a few BE defectors who would love to vote against UConn and screw them over.

Also at this point any ACC additions will have to be a package deal. Not sure if ACC really wants Cincy, and it would be tough to find a buddy any more attractive than the bearcats.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I put the chances of UConn not playing FBS football 10 years from now at about 0.1%. All I was saying is I think a drop to FCS would precede cutting the program

I'm not saying that a dropdown to FCS is something that's likely to happen. My point is every choice UConn has is unsavory, and every option has to be on the table, including a dropdown.

What's better, dropping or reclassifying football, or making a Maryland-like decision to drop seven or more sports?

[aceinthehole]

I'm not saying that a dropdown to FCS is something that's likely to happen. My point is every choice UConn has is unsavory, and every option has to be on the table, including a dropdown.

What's better, dropping or reclassifying football, or making a Maryland-like decision to drop seven sports?

Again, you are being silly for the sake of being silly. Maryland dropped Olympic sports, and upgraded football to the BiG. Yes, UConn may cut sports to get the NCAA D-I minimum, but they are not dropping football or reclassifying to FCS in your lifetime - so why would you even waste the time to type that thought?

I guess time travel is theoretically possible too, do we want to discuss that too? For a PL guy, your logic is questionable at best.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Again, you are being silly for the sake of being silly. Maryland dropped Olympic sports, and upgraded football to the BiG. Yes, UConn may cut sports to get the NCAA D-I minimum, but they are not dropping football or reclassifying to FCS in your lifetime - so why would you even waste the time to type that thought?

I guess time travel is theoretically possible too, do we want to discuss that too? For a PL guy, your logic is questionable at best.

What is UConn's purpose to keep FBS football now?

To protect their basketball program? What a laugh - if anything, hoops could now carrying the football program, and only if the rest of the Big East lets them in in hoops.

To get to a BCS bowl? News flash: In the new C-USA 2.0, that's not happening. Was Tulane or Eastern Carolina ever a real player in the BCS? And when Boise State and the Mountain-West-In-Waiting leave, it gets even worse.

To get a good TV contract for football + hoops? What is the Sun Belt's i.e. non-realistic-playoff-eligible football money again? Oh, right, there is none. And what's C-USA 2.0's RPI again? How's that going to look at the bargaining table?

Give it a few hours. You'll get it eventually. Maybe after everyone else has, but still. At UConn, football has taken on a very, very different shape over the last six hours. It has gone from a security blanket for hoops to a giant albatross.

[aceinthehole]

LFN, after this I'm done correcting you – it is practically a full time job.

UConn football very well may take on a different stature among the NCAA hierarchy, but no one on this planet thinks there is any possibility of UConn moving to FCS.

So take your .001% theory and keep flinging dung against the wall in your posts and on your blogs. Sure, something small may stick, but your gernal perspective on these matters are worthless to discuss any further.

[Engineer86]

Now that's something I think could happen. IMO, the one thing UD could move up for would be a stable, all sports conference built around schools that fit somewhat geographically. Almost a MAC East if you will, although they wouldn't need to be affiliated with the MAC as they could exist on their own. It would almost be like the idea many here had in the past that the CAA could move up as an entity - this would be one way to essentially do that in effect, if not exactly like that. I think from a UD perspective it could be interesting - obviously there is a long, amicable relationship with UConn and UMass, and certainly with JMU and recently with ODU. Temple was THE rival for UD for many, many years, even far surpassing nova in terms of excitement and interest. That would be great to get that back. And an FBS UD could even then look to get teams like Navy, Army, CUSA teams, etc, to come play in Newark, where those teams would never come if UD remains FCS.

The negative here is whether UConn or Temple would want their b-ball programs in a conference like this, and also the negative that a UConn could be a short time resident if they did get a call to a different conference.

This is something I would not mind Lehigh being part of. Can we get a ticket for this?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UConn football very well may take on a different stature among the NCAA hierarchy...

I see your synapses are finally starting to fire. Fortunately I'm a patient man.

[VUCats02]

At this point, it would make 100% sense for Nova to drop football, as they clearly are never going to move up to the FBS.

I still don't think that's going to happen though. It would be too ballsy for Father Peter to drop the program altogether. I think Nova will continue to take the hit financially and field a team. I think Nova and Georgetown will continue to keep their football teams.

[Southsider]

LFN, after this I'm done correcting you – it is practically a full time job.

UConn football very well may take on a different stature among the NCAA hierarchy, but no one on this planet thinks there is any possibility of UConn moving to FCS.

So take your .001% theory and keep flinging dung against the wall in your posts and on your blogs. Sure, something small may stick, but your gernal perspective on these matters are worthless to discuss any further.

Ace, it's clear you have an axe to gring with LFN. Let it go. He throws things out there for discussion, albeit farfetched at times, but it keeps people like me checking in on AGS every few days. Also, since you often come off as wanting to be the smartest guy in the room, be sure to check your spelling.............

[aceinthehole]

Ace, it's clear you have an axe to gring with LFN. Let it go. He throws things out there for discussion, albeit farfetched at times, but it keeps people like me checking in on AGS every few days. Also, since you often come off as wanting to be the smartest guy in the room, be sure to check your spelling.............

Well if that's entertaining to you, you're right he is doing a great job!

I’m not trying to be anything. I was just correcting inaccuracies and misperceptions about the NEC in LFN’s misinformed posts. Actually, I prefer to be one of the dumbest guys in the room – it is the best way to learn something new. That being said, if you want to correct my spelling or grammer instead of the content of my comments, then I'll take that as a complement.

[Go...gate]

At this point, it would make 100% sense for Nova to drop football, as they clearly are never going to move up to the FBS.

I still don't think that's going to happen though. It would be too ballsy for Father Peter to drop the program altogether. I think Nova will continue to take the hit financially and field a team. I think Nova and Georgetown will continue to keep their football teams.

I hope your football program winds up in the Patriot.

[dgreco]

Football is a big reason. Calhoun also didn't exactly endear himself to a ton of people. Personally I know there are more than a few BE defectors who would love to vote against UConn and screw them over.

Also at this point any ACC additions will have to be a package deal. Not sure if ACC really wants Cincy, and it would be tough to find a buddy any more attractive than the bearcats.

I don't get why Cincinnati isn't a good candidate. Huge endowment, very good sports programs, large research university, in a large metro, in a great state for recruiting.

[Laker]

I agree on Cincy. I would think they would be high on the list for replacements.

Saw this online.

Matt Peloquin ‏@NCAAsports

JSonline reports Big East basketball departure holdup due to Georgetown President DeGioia struggles w/ leaving the Big East.

[dgreco]

Supposedly Xavier and Butler are already 8/9 in the conference, at least from a report coming out of Milwaukee.

[fc97]

I don't get why Cincinnati isn't a good candidate. Huge endowment, very good sports programs, large research university, in a large metro, in a great state for recruiting.

because they aren't the profile of school that duke, unc and virginia are really gunning for. and with those three holding out, they can't get the vote.

the same with uconn for basketball, gt, clemson and florida state don't want.

[Laker]

Supposedly Xavier and Butler are already 8/9 in the conference, at least from a report coming out of Milwaukee.

How about Dayton?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Butler from the Horizon to one year in the A-10 to the New Big East is one of the few moves that has zero ramifications on the FCS side. It seems all but certain they'll keep non-scholarship football and simply watch their income grow with $1 million more TV revenue per year (at least) pour into their coffers. Even if a spare thought was made to leave non-scholarship football (which it wouldn't), the Missouri Valley Football conference would be there to pick them up in a heartbeat.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Since we're talking about UConn:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-12-14/cincinnati-uconn-acc-big-east-leaving-conference-realignment-connecticut


Sources close to the discussions told Sporting News on Friday that one possibility to give the Bearcats and Huskies a home, which is at the early stages of discussion, would be a cross-continent all-sports league involving disenfranchised members of the Big East as well as the most prominent members of the Mountain West.

The proposed entrants would be UConn, Cincinnati, South Florida, Memphis, Temple, Boise State, San Diego State, UNLV, New Mexico and possibly BYU or Central Florida. Such a league would include football programs that are comparable and competitive, as well as extraordinary basketball featuring eight teams that reached the NCAA Tournament last season. NBC Sports Network is likely to be approached to gauge its interest in such a property.

Instantly after that was floated:

@SpiderBandwagon How is UConn dropping football and joining the Catholic 7 not more radical than that monstrosity?

Almost as funny as the proposed conference is the fact that Idaho wasn't even invited!

[PantherRob82]

Since we're talking about UConn:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-12-14/cincinnati-uconn-acc-big-east-leaving-conference-realignment-connecticut



Instantly after that was floated:

@SpiderBandwagon How is UConn dropping football and joining the Catholic 7 not more radical than that monstrosity?

Almost as funny as the proposed conference is the fact that Idaho wasn't even invited!

Why would Idaho get invited?

[MplsBison]

If the MVC gets touched, Creighton specifically, UNI and Illinois State may push harder at an FBS move to the MAC.

There ya go LFN. Your nightmare scenario: no matter what happens, teams keep trying to find a way OUT of I-AA.

[MplsBison]

Just watch ESPN get UConn in the ACC....it will happen.

Not unless the Big Ten or the SEC take some ACC teams. Those two are the prime movers east of the Mississippi.

[MplsBison]

Why would Idaho get invited?

I think he gets off on I-A teams that used to be in I-AA doing poorly.

[Anovafan]

In addition to Xavier and Butler, they are going after Gonzaga and St. Louis for tv markets. And Creighton too.

[MplsBison]

because they aren't the profile of school that duke, unc and virginia are really gunning for. and with those three holding out, they can't get the vote.

the same with uconn for basketball, gt, clemson and florida state don't want.

Unless Virginia decides to say "Screw it, I'm tired of this game. Time to guarantee our future and be done with conference alignment forever. We're joining Maryland in the Big Ten."

[MplsBison]

In addition to Xavier and Butler, they are going after Gonzaga and St. Louis for tv markets.

Gonzaga for TV market? Somehow I don't think that's quite right.

They may try to form a nation wide conference, with Gonzaga as a member for the sake of having a top mid-major program....but surely not for the market.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In addition to Xavier and Butler, they are going after Gonzaga and St. Louis for tv markets. And Creighton too.

And this new hoops conference makes money... how, if they pursue teams as far away as the Zags?

[DFW HOYA]

And this new hoops conference makes money... how, if they pursue teams as far away as the Zags?

Because it won't, at least not for the larger programs.

[Tintin]

I think it is only a matter of time until UConn is in the ACC.

If UConn bails, the southern schools (fla st., ga tech, Clemson) start looking for a way out. They have not enjoyed adding the northern basketball schools. This will start another round of this crap and the acc will be severely damaged. UConn to the ACC is like the Cuban missile crisis of all this.

[MplsBison]

Because it won't, at least not for the larger programs.

But if they stick to traditional Big East core membership, in the North East - they have a shot.

[fc97]

If UConn bails, the southern schools (fla st., ga tech, Clemson) start looking for a way out. They have not enjoyed adding the northern basketball schools. This will start another round of this crap and the acc will be severely damaged. UConn to the ACC is like the Cuban missile crisis of all this.

that's why i don't expect it to happen unless the football schools are thrown a bone to help them out.

[Sonic98]

The Big East was never much better than C-USA in football, so they're not really losing anything. As a basketball conference they will still be fine. There are still quality teams.

[JimLU]

This is something I would not mind Lehigh being part of. Can we get a ticket for this?
In my opinion, having watch college football in eastern & central Pa. all the way back to the Mid Atlantic Conference, Lehigh will never leave Bucknell, Lafayette, and Colgate for another league or division. Unless one of them de-activates to DII or DIII. Plus I can't see even the staunches sports crazed Lehigh alumn pushing to get involved in the money sucking vortex that is low level FBS football. High level mid-major basketball, maybe. But not FBS.

[Go...gate]

In my opinion, having watch college football in eastern & central Pa. all the way back to the Mid Atlantic Conference, Lehigh will never leave Bucknell, Lafayette, and Colgate for another league or division. Unless one of them de-activates to DII or DIII. Plus I can't see even the staunches sports crazed Lehigh alumn pushing to get involved in the money sucking vortex that is low level FBS football. High level mid-major basketball, maybe. But not FBS.

Agreed. The schools have grown much closer together through the years.

[skinny_uncle]

Butler from the Horizon to one year in the A-10 to the New Big East is one of the few moves that has zero ramifications on the FCS side. It seems all but certain they'll keep non-scholarship football and simply watch their income grow with $1 million more TV revenue per year (at least) pour into their coffers. Even if a spare thought was made to leave non-scholarship football (which it wouldn't), the Missouri Valley Football conference would be there to pick them up in a heartbeat.
The Valley would take as Butler for basketball if Creighton leaves to join the Catholic Seven. They could continue to play football in whatever league they want. Don't confuse the MVC with the MVFC. They do overlap but the membership lists for the two sports are quite different.

[Laker]

The Valley would take as Butler for basketball if Creighton leaves to join the Catholic Seven. They could continue to play football in whatever league they want. Don't confuse the MVC with the MVFC. They do overlap but the membership lists for the two sports are quite different.

Exactly. Two different animals. I was surprised to read that the MVC is the second oldest conference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Valley_Conference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Valley_Football_Conference

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Valley would take as Butler for basketball if Creighton leaves to join the Catholic Seven. They could continue to play football in whatever league they want. Don't confuse the MVC with the MVFC. They do overlap but the membership lists for the two sports are quite different.

Butler seems like they're going to be joining the new Big East, and I did say (while basically saying it wouldn't happen) that if Butler decided to upgrade to scholarship football, they Missouri Valley football conference would be there for them.

But the Creighton stuff is interesting. If Creighton and Butler go to the New Big East, then the Missouri Valley probably can/should get another basketball school. But who? Valparaiso is too small and doesn't really fit. Wright State? Cleveland State (who did, actually, look into FCS-level football)? Wisconsin-Green Bay?

Would any of these three have the possibility of adding FCS-level football, at the non-scholarship level or otherwise?

[DFW HOYA]

Wright State? Cleveland State (who did, actually, look into FCS-level football)? Wisconsin-Green Bay?
Would any of these three have the possibility of adding FCS-level football, at the non-scholarship level or otherwise?

Each of these three schools has either had club teams or have looked into I-AA football over the last five years, but the financial will is not there. Gone are the days when a school would add a sport because students asked for it.

Schools that add football at this level fall into one of three categories:

1. A stepping stone towards a revenue-based I-A model (ODU, South Alabama, Georgia St.)
2. A means for driving male enrollment (Stetson, Mercer)
3. A means of building an image of a school with a comprehensive athletic program (UTSA, Incarnate Word)

Each of the schools above are commuter based state schools to which male enrollment or I-A ambitions are not priorities. The only way they would add football is if option #3 became a priority of a trustee who was willing to fund it. So far, not so much.

[Laker]

Wisconsin-Green Bay?

I doubt if UWGB would add football. In Wisconsin, just like in Minnesota and Nebraska, the flagship lobby is so powerful that there are no FCS schools. Heck, Wisconsin doesn't even have a D2 football team. I think that sucks that they have that much power but it is reality.

[MplsBison]

Each of these three schools has either had club teams or have looked into I-AA football over the last five years, but the financial will is not there. Gone are the days when a school would add a sport because students asked for it.

Schools that add football at this level fall into one of three categories:

1. A stepping stone towards a revenue-based I-A model (ODU, South Alabama, Georgia St.)
2. A means for driving male enrollment (Stetson, Mercer)
3. A means of building an image of a school with a comprehensive athletic program (UTSA, Incarnate Word)

Each of the schools above are commuter based state schools to which male enrollment or I-A ambitions are not priorities. The only way they would add football is if option #3 became a priority of a trustee who was willing to fund it. So far, not so much.

UTSA definitely falls into 1.

[MplsBison]

I doubt if UWGB would add football. In Wisconsin, just like in Minnesota and Nebraska, the flagship lobby is so powerful that there are no FCS schools. Heck, Wisconsin doesn't even have a D2 football team. I think that sucks that they have that much power but it is reality.

Sometimes I wonder if Madison actually has that much control or if the rest of the UW system basically just doesn't give a s___t about the potential opportunities they could provide to Wisc high school student-athletes.

[ST_Lawson]

Butler seems like they're going to be joining the new Big East, and I did say (while basically saying it wouldn't happen) that if Butler decided to upgrade to scholarship football, they Missouri Valley football conference would be there for them.

But the Creighton stuff is interesting. If Creighton and Butler go to the New Big East, then the Missouri Valley probably can/should get another basketball school. But who? Valparaiso is too small and doesn't really fit. Wright State? Cleveland State (who did, actually, look into FCS-level football)? Wisconsin-Green Bay?

Would any of these three have the possibility of adding FCS-level football, at the non-scholarship level or otherwise?

They might also look at a school like UIC (U of Illinois - Chicago). Good basketball team, opens up the Chicago market, fits well into the footprint. Really though, it's up to the dominant basketball schools in the league (Wichita State, Illinois State, UNI, etc.) if Creigton takes off. As someone else said, they might try for Butler, or they might try to pull in a Summit or Horizon league team like Oakland (although they're a bit East for the MVC usually) a Dakota school (like SDSU's been very good at BBall lately), or Valparaiso. I'd love for Western to get a shot, but we don't really have the long-term BBall success (last year or two have been pretty good, but not so much prior to that) to be given much of a look.

Football doesn't enter into the equation though. MVC will try to get good BBall schools, regardless of if or at what level the school plays football.

[ITmonarch10]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8749700/seven-schools-decide-leave-big-east-pursue-new-basketball-framework

It official by a unanimous vote.

I wonder what this does the Big East TV contract and Nova football.

[Bossanova]

The 7 teams that just broke away will add 3 more teams, most likely, Butler, X, and Dayton for a start and Nova football will stay in the CAA for now and contend for another national championship in 2103 with 17 starters back from this years playoff team.

The 7 Catholic schools will not break away until 2015.

[MplsBison]

The 7 teams that just broke away will add 3 more teams, most likely, Butler, X, and Dayton for a start and Nova football will stay in the CAA for now and contend for another national championship in 2103 with 17 starters back from this years playoff team.

The 7 Catholic schools will not break away until 2015.

If Notre Dame gets out as early as next season and Louisville and Rutgers either next season or 2014-15....why wait for the 2015-16 season to start the new league?

Likewise, why would the Big East want the bball schools to stick around for that long anyway?


Let's just get on with it, shall we?

[HailSzczur]

Going to be an interesting week or however long it takes to figure out the rest of the league

Poll going around a Villanova student fan page (the augustinian army) since about 8pm

Who do you want to see added to the CYO league:
Xaiver- 60 votes
Butler- 48 votes
Gonzaga- 37 votes
Creighton- 15 votes
BC- 14 votes (huh??????)
St. Joes (PA)- 13 votes (huh??????x2)
VCU- 10 votes
St. Louis- 10 votes
Bradley- 4 votes
Dayton- 4 votes
St. Marys- 4 votes
Richmond- 3 votes
Lehigh- 2 votes
Iona- 1 vote
Davidson- 1 vote
Notre Dame- 1 vote
Seattle- 1 vote

[Laker]

Sometimes I wonder if Madison actually has that much control or if the rest of the UW system basically just doesn't give a s___t about the potential opportunities they could provide to Wisc high school student-athletes.

The NSIC, especially MSU and Winona, gets a lot of athletes from WI since D3 can't give scholarships. That would be one tough league if they would go from D3 to D2.


If Notre Dame gets out as early as next season and Louisville and Rutgers either next season or 2014-15....why wait for the 2015-16 season to start the new league?

Likewise, why would the Big East want the bball schools to stick around for that long anyway?


Let's just get on with it, shall we?

Agreed. Basketball schedules are much easier to make that football ones long range- the sooner they settle the divorce the better.

[MplsBison]

Heh. "Can't give scholarships".

And yet, I have a sneaking suspicion that those star players for Whitewater are most definitely not paying the same amount out of pocket for their school expenses.

[Laker]

Heh. "Can't give scholarships".

And yet, I have a sneaking suspicion that those star players for Whitewater are most definitely not paying the same amount out of pocket for their school expenses.

Like Captain Renault in Casablanca, I'm shocked! You mean that the players at St. John's MN who had jobs turning on the water sprinklers for work study were unaware that they went on automatically every day..........xeyebrowx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Each of these three schools has either had club teams or have looked into I-AA football over the last five years, but the financial will is not there. Gone are the days when a school would add a sport because students asked for it.

Schools that add football at this level fall into one of three categories:

1. A stepping stone towards a revenue-based I-A model (ODU, South Alabama, Georgia St.)
2. A means for driving male enrollment (Stetson, Mercer)
3. A means of building an image of a school with a comprehensive athletic program (UTSA, Incarnate Word)

Each of the schools above are commuter based state schools to which male enrollment or I-A ambitions are not priorities. The only way they would add football is if option #3 became a priority of a trustee who was willing to fund it. So far, not so much.

The funny thing about #3 in terms of Cleveland State was that their football ambitions were apparently articulated by the president, months before he was going to retire, as something he always wanted to do. It seemed like a pitch to a rich alum to do something but apparently it seems like there were no takers.

Another funny thing is, while you correctly point out, "gone are the days that football programs pop up because students ask for it", students do still ask for it. Off the top of my head, Oakland (MI), Cleveland State, NJIT, and even Boston University have had students asking about football in the last five years alone. In all cases they've been shot down by the president, trustees, or both.

There was also that initiative by the California state schools, like Cal State-Fullerton and others, that have been trying to start up football again. And then there's also ETSU's campaign, which looks like it may be successful.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

One thing that really struck me about the Big East breakup vote was that it was unanimous. This leads me to believe that UConn has cut a deal to be a part of the new Big East in basketball.

Unlike many that are trying to float up the flagpole that 10 teams is optimal, if they get enough of a regional cluster of schools I believe they'll go to 12 or 14. Reason being the more teams they have the more sports the new league can sponsor, like lacrosse, volleyball and the like. (This will keep the new Big East from having the same problems as the Mountain West.) Not to mention that if they go to a divisional format that will cut down on travel costs across the country.

Finally, I believe they'll cluster in two places: the east and midwest. Gonzaga will not become a part of the new conference, and if they do, it will be a huge indicator that this league will not be able to function.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Completing this thought, and linking it back to FCS, that probably means Creighton might be a strong candidate (affecting the Missouri Valley) and so would a bunch of A-10 schools (UMass, Saint Louis, Butler, Dayton, Xavier), which might affect the CAA if any more of those schools accept A-10 invites.

[frozennorth]

one this it does mean is the asu and gsu are likely stuck in the fcs until the big east gets sorted out.

[PantherRob82]

one this it does mean is the asu and gsu are likely stuck in the fcs until the big east gets sorted out.

Why? Who would fall to the Sunbelt?

[MplsBison]

one this it does mean is the asu and gsu are likely stuck in the fcs until the big east gets sorted out.

No, I disagree with that.

AT BEST, the Sun Belt is moving forward with 8 football members in addition to Little Rock and Arlington (which could potentially add football one day). Very possibly, more of these could move to the CUSA if the Big East adds more from the CUSA, after the bball schools leave.

ASU and GA Southern seem like very ideal candidates for them to get to 12 football members sooner rather than later (along with New Mexico St and maybe one more FCS).

[dgtw]

I would call the Big Ten and see if they are ready to take Maryland and Rutgers next year. If they can, then they can move and Louisville can go ahead and move to the ACC as well. Maybe also try to speed up ECU and Tulane getting in. I'd also give an ultimatum to Boise and SDSU to see if they are still planning on joining.

I would hope the new basketball league doesn't add any FBS members. That's how they got into this mess to begin with.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I would hope the new basketball league doesn't add any FBS members. That's how they got into this mess to begin with.

I don't believe they will bankrupt UConn over this, which is what will happen if they stay in C-USA 2.0, but I could see it happening. Ultimately, I would think the Big East "brand" has a LOT more value with UConn than without, but I don't know the depth of the animosity.

[MplsBison]

Again, agreeing with LFN. Amazing.

The problem is, what to do with UConn football if the rest leave the Big East for the new league?


Do they try to go indy? Will the Big East allow them to stay in football only? Join UMass in the MAC?

[HailSzczur]

Again, agreeing with LFN. Amazing.

The problem is, what to do with UConn football if the rest leave the Big East for the new league?


Do they try to go indy? Will the Big East allow them to stay in football only? Join UMass in the MAC?

If NMSt and Idaho think they can give the indy route a go why not UConn? They'd stand a lot better chance of making it work than the other 2.

[Laker]

If NMSt and Idaho think they can give the indy route a go why not UConn? They'd stand a lot better chance of making it work than the other 2.

What if the Big East football schools actually stick together? UCONN and Cincy don't have anywhere else to go. Boise and SDSU have an open invitation to the MWC but would they go back? There are so many questions.............

[MplsBison]

If NMSt and Idaho think they can give the indy route a go why not UConn? They'd stand a lot better chance of making it work than the other 2.

True. It works for Notre Dame as well...

But now that I thought if it -- *IF* UConn is going to leave the Big East for the new conference, I don't think the MAC would be a terrible place for them to put their football program.

I know, that sounds outright crazy and stupid. They should only even consider it if the Big East won't let them keep their football only in the conference, but I don't think they will. Therefore, why not the MAC?

It worked for Temple. It was working for Buffalo when Gill was there. It will work for UMass. Why not?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If NMSt and Idaho think they can give the indy route a go why not UConn? They'd stand a lot better chance of making it work than the other 2.

1. NMSt and Idaho don't want the indy route, they have chosen it because they felt they had no choice. There are schools that desire it, like ND and BYU, but they can afford it since they have their own TV stations.

2. UConn's athletic program is not built for seven road football games and no shot at a bowl every year, which is what they'd be facing as an independent.

Cincy is not nearly as bad off as UConn in this scenario, since they're geographically closer to a whole host of schools that might take them in. It's not out of the realm of possibility, for example, that the MAC takes them in, and an invite to a big-money conference may also be a remote possibility. But UConn is ****ed. The ACC doesn't want them, and no schools around them seem willing to help.

[Laker]

Any bets on further movement before Christmas? I'm guessing not. Schools will want to have the media attention. Most schools are done with classes and ADs want to be on vacation.

[MplsBison]

1. NMSt and Idaho don't want the indy route, they have chosen it because they felt they had no choice. There are schools that desire it, like ND and BYU, but they can afford it since they have their own TV stations.

2. UConn's athletic program is not built for seven road football games and no shot at a bowl every year, which is what they'd be facing as an independent.

Cincy is not nearly as bad off as UConn in this scenario, since they're geographically closer to a whole host of schools that might take them in. It's not out of the realm of possibility, for example, that the MAC takes them in, and an invite to a big-money conference may also be a remote possibility. But UConn is ****ed. The ACC doesn't want them, and no schools around them seem willing to help.

"7 road games and no bowl every year" - you were wrong with Idaho, you'd be wrong again here.

[MplsBison]

Any bets on further movement before Christmas? I'm guessing not. Schools will want to have the media attention. Most schools are done with classes and ADs want to be on vacation.

Just waiting for more details on the new conference (name, bball tourny host site, what money they'll be award from the Big East, etc.) and then who they invite to join.

Probably not before Christmas, you're right.

[HailSzczur]

1. NMSt and Idaho don't want the indy route, they have chosen it because they felt they had no choice. There are schools that desire it, like ND and BYU, but they can afford it since they have their own TV stations.

2. UConn's athletic program is not built for seven road football games and no shot at a bowl every year, which is what they'd be facing as an independent.

Cincy is not nearly as bad off as UConn in this scenario, since they're geographically closer to a whole host of schools that might take them in. It's not out of the realm of possibility, for example, that the MAC takes them in, and an invite to a big-money conference may also be a remote possibility. But UConn is ****ed. The ACC doesn't want them, and no schools around them seem willing to help.

Never thought about it, but Cincy wouldn't be a bad fit in the Big 12. If they could find 1 more team to get them back to 12 they would get their football championship game back too.

[MplsBison]

Never thought about it, but Cincy wouldn't be a bad fit in the Big 12. If they could find 1 more team to get them back to 12 they would get their football championship game back too.

Texas and Oklahoma don't want a conf championship game. They want to be able to win 6 or 7 conf games and be declared champions, then gaining an automatic birth to a big money bowl without having to chance a loss vs a fired up Kansas St type of team. Not to mention they probably didn't like the game being in KC.

Only way they approve going to 12 is if they can steal some programs that really move the needle on the TV contract, like a Florida St. And even then, no guarantee they'll sign off on a conf championship game.

[dgtw]

Ohio has pretty good high school football, they might take them to get a toe into that market. But I don't see Cincy going to the Big XII unless their expansion partner is a really big name.

[GSU Eagle]

It is being reported today that the Big East is talking to Fresno St. and UNLV about joining. It would appear that either the Big East is going to raid the MWC or the MWC is going to get SDSU and Boise St. to leave the Big East . Stay tuned.

[MplsBison]

It is being reported today that the Big East is talking to Fresno St. and UNLV about joining. It would appear that either the Big East is going to raid the MWC or the MWC is going to get SDSU and Boise St. to leave the Big East . Stay tuned.

I for one can't stand the idea of Mountain or Western time zone schools in the Big East, even just for football only.

Stay and build up the Mountain West! I hope none of Boise, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV or Air Force join the Big East in any way. BYU should also stay put or rejoin the MWC.

[TypicalTribe]

SDSU and Boise St should go back to the Mountain West. If Fresno St. and UNLV join up, basically what has happened is the Mt West and Conf USA have gotten together and formed a bastard child called the Big East. It's not a conference, it's just a national amalgamation of teams.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The fact that Fresno State and UNLV are under serious consideration just shows that the "Big East" football schools are getting desperate to hold things together.

[Laker]

I for one can't stand the idea of Mountain or Western time zone schools in the Big East, even just for football only.

Stay and build up the Mountain West! I hope none of Boise, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV or Air Force join the Big East in any way. BYU should also stay put or rejoin the MWC.

Agree. As a geography teacher this drives me nuts.


SDSU and Boise St should go back to the Mountain West. If Fresno St. and UNLV join up, basically what has happened is the Mt West and Conf USA have gotten together and formed a bastard child called the Big East. It's not a conference, it's just a national amalgamation of teams.

Yes- it is a desperate attempt to stay afloat. Sanity has been lost.

[MplsBison]

The fact that Fresno State and UNLV are under serious consideration just shows that the "Big East" football schools are getting desperate to hold things together.

As I was saying before, the Big East has devolved into nothing more than the "CUSA afterlife".

Temple and UConn, as of now, are the only (potential) full members left that did not come directly from CUSA. The membership timeline has been updated on the Wikipedia page:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/598e181749d48db4fc49bde56b53a89a.png


There's a LOT of yellow on the far right edge....

If I was UConn: i'd join the new conf with the other former BE core members and put football in the MAC with UMass.

If I was Temple: i'd go back to the A10 and put football in the MAC with UConn and UMass.

[MplsBison]

Interview with BE comish: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/big-east-commissioner-mike-aresco-we-feel-we-have-a-very-good-league/2012/12/19/2fb80652-4a1e-11e2-820e-17eefac2f939_story.html


And CBS sports report on BE talking to Fresno and UNLV. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/21425151/big-east-contacts-fresno-state-and-unlv-about-joining-in-football

Money is literally the only thing they have to offer a western school. Can't get more access to bowls and can't get more publicity than in the MWC.

[Laker]

Temple and UConn, as of now, are the only (potential) full members left that did not come directly from CUSA.

If I was UConn: i'd join the new conf with the other former BE core members and put football in the MAC with UMass.

If I was Temple: i'd go back to the A10 and put football in the MAC with UConn and UMass.

That timeline is pretty revealing. Like you said, a lot of yellow on the right edge. If I was Boise and SDSU, I'd head back to the MWC.

[fc97]

you guys are assuming that the mac wants temple back and the big east 7 + others want uconn.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

you guys are assuming that the mac wants temple back and the big east 7 + others want uconn.

This is why, pages ago, I said that a possibility existed that UConn would have to forge their own brand-new FBS conference from the wreckage. You could begin with UConn, Temple, and UMass. After that it gets interesting (Buffalo? Cincy? Would USF be on board? East Carolina? Is Navy still returning phone calls?), which is why it seems like such a longshot. Never mind the hoops portion of this league won't hold a candle to the OBE7, never mind the ACC.

[MplsBison]

you guys are assuming that the mac wants temple back and the big east 7 + others want uconn.

Of course. If the MAC was stupid enough to say no to UConn and Temple, then those schools would have to choose between being Indy or staying in the Big East for all sport.

I only see the following realistic possibilities for both:

UConn:

1) stay in the Big East for all sports
2) join the Core-7 for non-football and join the MAC for football only
3) (long shot) join the Core-7 for non-football and be independent in football

Temple:

1) stay in the Big East for all sports
2) rejoin the A10 for non-football and rejoin the MAC for football only
3) (long shot) rejoin the A10 for non-football and be independent in football


I don't see either being allowed to keep football only in the Big East. Nor do I see any reasonable way to start a new conference for all-sports that would be any better than just staying in the Big East. I don't know if they could potentially cobble together a I-A football only conference or if that would even be allowed.


In both cases, 1 isn't actually that much better of football being played on the field than 2 but probably the only way that the football boosters don't flat give up on the program. On the other hand, the hoops in 2 will be better than 1, despite what the Big East comish is trying to sell.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Dropping or reclassifying doesn't seem all that out of the realm of possibility, eh?

[frozennorth]

Dropping or reclassifying doesn't seem all that out of the realm of possibility, eh?

way out of the realm of possiblility

[fc97]

Of course. If the MAC was stupid enough to say no to UConn and Temple, then those schools would have to choose between being Indy or staying in the Big East for all sport.

I only see the following realistic possibilities for both:

UConn:

1) stay in the Big East for all sports
2) join the Core-7 for non-football and join the MAC for football only
3) (long shot) join the Core-7 for non-football and be independent in football

Temple:

1) stay in the Big East for all sports
2) rejoin the A10 for non-football and rejoin the MAC for football only
3) (long shot) rejoin the A10 for non-football and be independent in football


I don't see either being allowed to keep football only in the Big East. Nor do I see any reasonable way to start a new conference for all-sports that would be any better than just staying in the Big East. I don't know if they could potentially cobble together a I-A football only conference or if that would even be allowed.


In both cases, 1 isn't actually that much better of football being played on the field than 2 but probably the only way that the football boosters don't flat give up on the program. On the other hand, the hoops in 2 will be better than 1, despite what the Big East comish is trying to sell.

i get it, i was just saying that a school can't act to just move, they have to be invited. it's the same argument I have over and over with app fans about private schools. the conference office doesn't just set invitations and schools don't just join, the member schools have to allow and extend and invitation.

if i am a big east 7 + 4 school, why would i want uconn. to me, they are one of the reasons that the big east got to the state it was in. it's better to have a group if peers that i agree with. plus uconn has the potential for major football money that greatly outpulls the rest. and having football means they are a flight risk for the conference.

if i am a mac school, why do i want uconn or temple. sure, it looks good on paper. but, me, as a mac school would be hesitant. uconn has more money than me. they will always have more money than me. they are the flagship school for their state while we're private and regional schools. and, it guarantees that our schools will never make the ncaa tourny again in men or women basketball, all without raising much more for the conference as far as money. to me, that's a huge risk for those member schools. they can make the same money nearly without having to jeopardize their tourney chances, why risk it. mac for football only, i could see it but where does non-football go? a-10?

i think uconn is in a very bad spot right now. temple always seemed like a fish out of water to me. they could always go back to the a-10 and probably play football in the mac.

or they could all just play in the new conference usa and deal with it. i personally don't see temple and uconn with a lot of options at the moment.

[MplsBison]

Dropping or reclassifying doesn't seem all that out of the realm of possibility, eh?

I don't know about dropping football - maybe for Temple this is reasonable, although their investment in the practice facility would go to waste.

UConn ain't dropping and they ain't dropping down. That's a fact. Not with the investment they've made.

[MplsBison]

i get it, i was just saying that a school can't act to just move, they have to be invited. it's the same argument I have over and over with app fans about private schools. the conference office doesn't just set invitations and schools don't just join, the member schools have to allow and extend and invitation.

if i am a big east 7 + 4 school, why would i want uconn. to me, they are one of the reasons that the big east got to the state it was in. it's better to have a group if peers that i agree with. plus uconn has the potential for major football money that greatly outpulls the rest. and having football means they are a flight risk for the conference.

if i am a mac school, why do i want uconn or temple. sure, it looks good on paper. but, me, as a mac school would be hesitant. uconn has more money than me. they will always have more money than me. they are the flagship school for their state while we're private and regional schools. and, it guarantees that our schools will never make the ncaa tourny again in men or women basketball, all without raising much more for the conference as far as money. to me, that's a huge risk for those member schools. they can make the same money nearly without having to jeopardize their tourney chances, why risk it. mac for football only, i could see it but where does non-football go? a-10?

i think uconn is in a very bad spot right now. temple always seemed like a fish out of water to me. they could always go back to the a-10 and probably play football in the mac.

or they could all just play in the new conference usa and deal with it. i personally don't see temple and uconn with a lot of options at the moment.

Again - of course. No one is suggesting that UConn or Temple hold a press conferences declaring their intention to join the MAC by next season.

They're both in the Big East now for all sports. All they have to do is nothing and that will be a guarantee.


No idea what you're saying about the BE schools from the CUSA not wanting UConn or Temple. Because they're worried those schools would flee at the next available opportunity? So what? So would South Florida and Cincy. So would any of them.

And as for the MAC not wanting UConn because it's a state flagship: what about Buffalo? At minimum, they're ONE of the state's public flagships - and of that group they're the largest, they're AAU and they're the only one with an I-A team. Seems like a pretty reasonable comparison to me. I would think the MAC would jump at the chance to have such a highly regarded (in comparison) program among them. Not many opportunities to get a new program with a 40k stadium these days.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

i personally don't see temple and uconn with a lot of options at the moment.

They could play in the OBE7 conference, downgrade to FCS and play regionally in the CAA with other "state flagships" like UNH, Maine, and Delaware, saving money. UMass and Temple could also join them and do the same thing.

Again, not the most likely scenario, but one that ought to be a possibility.

[MplsBison]

They could play in the OBE7 conference, downgrade to FCS and play regionally in the CAA with other "state flagships" like UNH, Maine, and Delaware, saving money. UMass and Temple could also join them and do the same thing.

Again, not the most likely scenario, but one that ought to be a possibility.

I'm assuming Villanova would blackball Temple coming into the conference for non-football sports, plus does it really make sense to have two Phila schools? That's why I said rejoin the A10 for Temple.


Would you please give your personal crusade to force at least one I-A school into dropping and accepting I-AA football a rest? Please? It will never, never, never happen. Give. Up.

What you just said could've been said EXACTLY the same for Buffalo. Now more than ever, joining up with Albany, Bing and SB in the America East and CAA FC for football.

Never. Happen. And you know it.

[fc97]

Again - of course. No one is suggesting that UConn or Temple hold a press conferences declaring their intention to join the MAC by next season.

They're both in the Big East now for all sports. All they have to do is nothing and that will be a guarantee.


No idea what you're saying about the BE schools from the CUSA not wanting UConn or Temple. Because they're worried those schools would flee at the next available opportunity? So what? So would South Florida and Cincy. So would any of them.

And as for the MAC not wanting UConn because it's a state flagship: what about Buffalo? At minimum, they're ONE of the state's public flagships - and of that group they're the largest, they're AAU and they're the only one with an I-A team. Seems like a pretty reasonable comparison to me. I would think the MAC would jump at the chance to have such a highly regarded (in comparison) program among them. Not many opportunities to get a new program with a 40k stadium these days.

no, not the BE football schools not wanting uconn, im saying why would the BE7+ want uconn?

buffalo isnt a state flagship school. i'm not sure ny really has one (like nj doesn't really have one). comparing uconn and buffalo isn't really apples to apples. say you're akron, kent, miami, bowling green, toledo, ball state, what does associating with uconn get you other than the same amount of money but now competing with a program with more resources than most mac schools put together. it might be a good recruiting tool to say you will play uconn, but, it also means you are nearly guaranteed to never win for basketball again. why would those schools want that?

[Laker]

Actually, Rutgers is the State University of New Jersey. I think it would be a lot more famous if they had changed the name when the legislature passed that. I thought that it was a private school when I was growing up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutgers

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

They could play in the OBE7 conference, downgrade to FCS and play regionally in the CAA with other "state flagships" like UNH, Maine, and Delaware, saving money. UMass and Temple could also join them and do the same thing.

Again, not the most likely scenario, but one that ought to be a possibility.

As a CT resident, I feel obligated to give you some feedback. In everything I've read or heard, there has not been one mention of returning to FCS and playing football with UNH and URI and the rest of CAAF. I don't know if it could be any closer to not even being on the radar!

Do you know that UConn tore down old Memorial Stadium on campus and a new basketball practice facility is being built on that site?
Do you really think UConn would seriously consider playing FCS Football at 40K Rentschler Field?
Do you really think UConn wants the PR nightmare of admitting they blew the $93 Million they got from the State of CT for the stadium and on campus practice facility at this time of significant deficits in the state budget?
Do you really think after watching FBS football, their fan base would ever accept FCS Football again when they hardly acknowledged its existence back in the day?

BTW, did you also know that Hockey East has admitted UConn and BC didn't block it? Did you know that UConn and BC both have new Presidents and new ADs and a "Detente" has been initiated?

[DFW HOYA]

The more established a school is, the more the pushback to changing names.

Years ago there was a proposal to change Rutgers College to the "University of New Jersey" and there was considerable pushback; hence, the appended name. Same thing for Virginia Tech, where there was an effort to change "Virginia Polytechnic Institute" to "Virginia State University" and the compromise became its new official name, "Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University."

The compromise had nothing to do with its change of nickname. Tech was known as the "Gobblers" well into the 1970's; "Hokie" was merely the campus cheer ('Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi! Tech, Tech, VPI!")

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As a CT resident, I feel obligated to give you some feedback. In everything I've read or heard, there has not been one mention of returning to FCS and playing football with UNH and URI and the rest of CAAF. I don't know if it could be any closer to not even being on the radar!

Do you know that UConn tore down old Memorial Stadium on campus and a new basketball practice facility is being built on that site?
Do you really think UConn would seriously consider playing FCS Football at 40K Rentschler Field?
Do you really think UConn wants the PR nightmare of admitting they blew the $93 Million they got from the State of CT for the stadium and on campus practice facility at this time of significant deficits in the state budget?
Do you really think after watching FBS football, their fan base would ever accept FCS Football again when they hardly acknowledged its existence back in the day?

BTW, did you also know that Hockey East has admitted UConn and BC didn't block it? Did you know that UConn and BC both have new Presidents and new ADs and a "Detente" has been initiated?

There is no doubt at all that any climbdown would be hugely humiliating for UConn. But the FBS alternatives ain't pretty, and they're *all* pretty much a climbdown from the days when they would face Pitt, Syracuse and Rutgers.

Climbdowns are not discussed, but it's the elephant in the room. UConn can't realistically compete as an FBS independent, especially with the ACC likely blackballing them. If they choose to gut it out in the CUSA 2.0, they'll be playing west of the Central Time Zone more often than East, which is expensive and won't get BCS money when the season is over. Hell, the MAC is very much in play, which is also a climbdown. Did anyone ever think 40K Renschler field would be hosting Central Michigan? That's the reality if they go that route.

UConn doesn't want the PR nightmare of any of this. But it's here, and there's not much they can do about it.

[aceinthehole]

As a CT resident, I feel obligated to give you some feedback. In everything I've read or heard, there has not been one mention of returning to FCS and playing football with UNH and URI and the rest of CAAF. I don't know if it could be any closer to not even being on the radar!

Do you know that UConn tore down old Memorial Stadium on campus and a new basketball practice facility is being built on that site?
Do you really think UConn would seriously consider playing FCS Football at 40K Rentschler Field?
Do you really think UConn wants the PR nightmare of admitting they blew the $93 Million they got from the State of CT for the stadium and on campus practice facility at this time of significant deficits in the state budget?
Do you really think after watching FBS football, their fan base would ever accept FCS Football again when they hardly acknowledged its existence back in the day?

BTW, did you also know that Hockey East has admitted UConn and BC didn't block it? Did you know that UConn and BC both have new Presidents and new ADs and a "Detente" has been initiated?

+ 100%

UNHAlum and I are not UConn supporters, but the fact is UConn is and will remain FBS. Sure they wanted and were once part of the BCS cartel, and may be stuck with "lesser" FBS programs, but they just aren't contemplating FCS.

LFN - Please give one example since the final 1981 designations, when a football program has reclassified down from I-A/FBS to I-AA/FCS?

The closest we will see to this "downgrade" is Idaho and potentially NMSU. I'll grant that the Vandas situation in FBS looks bleak, but UConn is not on par with Idaho in any way, shape, or form.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN - Please give one example since the final 1981 designations, when a football program has reclassified down from I-A/FBS to I-AA/FCS?

The entire Ivy League.

My turn. Give me one example since the final 1981 designations when a bowl conference voluntarily split itself apart into two different conferences, one basketball-only, the other sponsoring FBS football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The closest we will see to this "downgrade" is Idaho and potentially NMSU. I'll grant that the Vandas situation in FBS looks bleak, but UConn is not on par with Idaho in any way, shape, or form.

First, I don't think NMSU is going down to FCS. They will join the Sun Belt or Mountain West, or maybe join up with this new CUSA 2.0 thing. Unlike UConn, either one of those three offer a life preserver to them, and one of the three will probably need them in some shape or form.

Second, UConn isn't in the same boat as Idaho for sure. UConn still has a strong basketball brand and all those basketball NCs.

Idaho and UConn are certainly apples and oranges here. Idaho has nothing to offer a conference except plane flights. UConn has 3 NCs to offer but appear to have pissed of their neighbors so much they may as well be on an island. Really, who have they pissed off more? The OBE7? The ACC? The CUSA 2.0 schools? It's a real toss-up.

[bluehenbillk]

It's only a matter of time that once the superconferences are completely formed and the playoff is a huge success that they'll turn their eyes to basketball and other sports and break away from the other conferences. There will end up being 2 March Madness tourneys, one for the super conference teams & one for the little guys.

[MplsBison]

It's only a matter of time that once the superconferences are completely formed and the playoff is a huge success that they'll turn their eyes to basketball and other sports and break away from the other conferences. There will end up being 2 March Madness tourneys, one for the super conference teams & one for the little guys.

Disagree 100%. If anything, the football tournament will just become more and more inclusive of the little guys - like March Madness is now.

It's so apparent, I wish people could just get over their weird preconceptions that big schools playing big schools is all that matters. The only truly compelling storyline in all of sports, but especially college sports (where such great disparities exist), for the average person is david v goliath. No one outside of the schools' fansbases care about goliath v goliath.

[MplsBison]

+ 100%

UNHAlum and I are not UConn supporters, but the fact is UConn is and will remain FBS. Sure they wanted and were once part of the BCS cartel, and may be stuck with "lesser" FBS programs, but they just aren't contemplating FCS.

LFN - Please give one example since the final 1981 designations, when a football program has reclassified down from I-A/FBS to I-AA/FCS?

The closest we will see to this "downgrade" is Idaho and potentially NMSU. I'll grant that the Vandas situation in FBS looks bleak, but UConn is not on par with Idaho in any way, shape, or form.

Forget about UConn -- how about Buffalo, as the perfect example of LFN's dream?

What has Buffalo ever done in I-A football, other than those Gill seasons? What did they ever do in DI-AA or DIII (wherever they came from)? What investment in on-campus facilities have they *ever* made, anywhere near what UConn has made??

Nothing.


Yet you will never, never, never see Buffalo move from the MAC down to the CAAF. Will. Not. Happen!


Then how you can ever expect it for UConn? It's just balderdash. Plain and simple.

[MplsBison]

The entire Ivy League.

My turn. Give me one example since the final 1981 designations when a bowl conference voluntarily split itself apart into two different conferences, one basketball-only, the other sponsoring FBS football.

UConn is in the Big East!!

If they do nothing...they're in the Big East!! For bball and football!!!


They'll play teams like Cincinati, South Florida, Temple, etc. They will survive.

[MplsBison]

no, not the BE football schools not wanting uconn, im saying why would the BE7+ want uconn?

buffalo isnt a state flagship school. i'm not sure ny really has one (like nj doesn't really have one). comparing uconn and buffalo isn't really apples to apples. say you're akron, kent, miami, bowling green, toledo, ball state, what does associating with uconn get you other than the same amount of money but now competing with a program with more resources than most mac schools put together. it might be a good recruiting tool to say you will play uconn, but, it also means you are nearly guaranteed to never win for basketball again. why would those schools want that?

Of all possible scenarios, that one should require the least explanation and justification. You're not serious, are you?

UConn started the Big East with those schools in 1979. Been with them ever since.

They'd be joining for non-football sports, playing the same schools they've been playing for 30+ years.


Who cares if UConn would leave for the ACC? So would *ANY* of those schools too! Just like Notre Dame did. You don't see the fighting Irish lining up to be members of this Catholic league, do you?


Buffalo absolutely is a flagship of the SUNY system. As are Albany, SB and Bing. And of those four, they're the largest, most important, the only with I-A football and one of two that have AAU status.

[bluehenbillk]

Disagree 100%. If anything, the football tournament will just become more and more inclusive of the little guys - like March Madness is now.

It's so apparent, I wish people could just get over their weird preconceptions that big schools playing big schools is all that matters. The only truly compelling storyline in all of sports, but especially college sports (where such great disparities exist), for the average person is david v goliath. No one outside of the schools' fansbases care about goliath v goliath.

That's a fantasy world. The way the real world works is dominated by one word - money. Why do you think there has never been a 1-A football playoff to begin with?

[fc97]

Disagree 100%. If anything, the football tournament will just become more and more inclusive of the little guys - like March Madness is now.

It's so apparent, I wish people could just get over their weird preconceptions that big schools playing big schools is all that matters. The only truly compelling storyline in all of sports, but especially college sports (where such great disparities exist), for the average person is david v goliath. No one outside of the schools' fansbases care about goliath v goliath.

i disagree 100%. college football isnt geared around the little guy. the little guys are looked at as a joke or embarrassment. and i don't see that attitude changing. college football is geared on the few, and to become more inclusive won't change the product at all.

college basketball march madness is geared around the big and little guys. many people tune in just to see the little guys pull out big wins. cutting that out will cut out many potential viewers. people live to watch the upset.

people don't live to watch the upset in football

[fc97]

Of all possible scenarios, that one should require the least explanation and justification. You're not serious, are you?

UConn started the Big East with those schools in 1979. Been with them ever since.

They'd be joining for non-football sports, playing the same schools they've been playing for 30+ years.


Who cares if UConn would leave for the ACC? So would *ANY* of those schools too! Just like Notre Dame did. You don't see the fighting Irish lining up to be members of this Catholic league, do you?


Buffalo absolutely is a flagship of the SUNY system. As are Albany, SB and Bing. And of those four, they're the largest, most important, the only with I-A football and one of two that have AAU status.

the uconn of 1979 isnt the uconn of today. the uconn of 1979 played i-aa football. the uconn of 1979 was focused on basketbal lfirst without a football priority. today, that isn't the case. playing fbd football gives you more potential resources, and that's obvious. why would non-football and fcs football schools associate with that, when they're already leaving to vacate themselves from schools that run with that mentality.

ok, so Buffalo is the flagship university of the SUNY system. i'll take that (or any of those others too). none of those schools have the same name as rutgers, uconn, umass or any other primary state schools like unc, alabama, nc state, v tech and so on. in perception, athletic dollars and so on, they are a glorified regional school when compared to uconn, they simply aren't there athletically. it isn't an apples to apples comparison.

[HailSzczur]

Hearing a lot of rumors where sources would be surprised is Boise ever played a BE football game. We're still not done ladies and gents, buckle up

[Seawolf97]

i disagree 100%. college football isnt geared around the little guy. the little guys are looked at as a joke or embarrassment. and i don't see that attitude changing. college football is geared on the few, and to become more inclusive won't change the product at all.

college basketball march madness is geared around the big and little guys. many people tune in just to see the little guys pull out big wins. cutting that out will cut out many potential viewers. people live to watch the upset.

people don't live to watch the upset in football

Have to agree -teams such as Butler. Lehigh and Cornell all took down super powers in the in The NCAA's and Butler just stunned #1 Indiana at home. So yes in hoops the potential upset sells.

[MplsBison]

Hearing a lot of rumors where sources would be surprised is Boise ever played a BE football game. We're still not done ladies and gents, buckle up

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2012/12/21/3793602/boise-state-leaving-big-east

Good. Get Boise and San Diego back in the MWC where they belong.

Doesn't really do anything to the Big East. It's still CUSA II + UConn and Temple. I even think Navy decides not to join and sticks it out as an independent. Which Temple and UConn should also consider, along with scheduling agreements each other and Navy and Army.

[JimLU]

I don't buy the argument that people don't care for upsets, or small time programs having an opportunity to compete in a football tournament. It simply can't be done in football. Basketball teams can play two games over a long weekend. They can do a 64 team tournament in three weekends. Football obviously can't. I don't see any way football goes beyond 16 teams (three weeks). You just don't have enough slots to get many smaller programs in. But if you could get App versus Michigan in an end of the year tournament, the ratings would be enormous for the second half, just like Lehigh and Duke. Sorry to get a bit off topic, but people love David & Goliath upsets in sports, unless your Goliath.

[MplsBison]

That's a fantasy world. The way the real world works is dominated by one word - money. Why do you think there has never been a 1-A football playoff to begin with?

Didn't say otherwise. Keep in mind, there's more money to be had by including the little guy. Again, March Madness.

Reason there hasn't been an I-A playoff is purely tradition. Bowls were how it worked in the past. You can just step change to a completely different direction. It has to be little, itty, bitty corrections - so that the head guys at the big programs can stop at every little checkpoint to make sure they're going to make at least as much money from the new deal as they were getting from the last deal.

There is no such thing as money going down in college football postseason - not now. Every correction they make from here on out closer to a full playoff will only result in more and more money for the conferences. Bowl games as money making enterprises may or may not cease to exist. But you can be guaranteed that the big conferences will be trucking in the cash - and that the damn NCAA won't get a red cent.

[MplsBison]

I don't buy the argument that people don't care for upsets, or small time programs having an opportunity to compete in a football tournament. It simply can't be done in football. Basketball teams can play two games over a long weekend. They can do a 64 team tournament in three weekends. Football obviously can't. I don't see any way football goes beyond 16 teams (three weeks). You just don't have enough slots to get many smaller programs in. But if you could get App versus Michigan in an end of the year tournament, the ratings would be enormous for the second half, just like Lehigh and Duke. Sorry to get a bit off topic, but people love David & Goliath upsets in most sports.

No one is saying it will be a 64 team tournament. Even 8 teams would be a really great place to get to someday.

The NFL plays 16 games in the regular season and then has a 4 round playoff. I think 22 year olds are a little more resilient than 30 year olds.

[MplsBison]

i disagree 100%. college football isnt geared around the little guy. the little guys are looked at as a joke or embarrassment. and i don't see that attitude changing. college football is geared on the few, and to become more inclusive won't change the product at all.

college basketball march madness is geared around the big and little guys. many people tune in just to see the little guys pull out big wins. cutting that out will cut out many potential viewers. people live to watch the upset.

people don't live to watch the upset in football

Spoken as a bitter, small school I-AA fan. You and LFN have your pity party.

The "other" I-A programs are more and more being seen in exactly the same way as known mid-majors like Butler. People are going to care and watch Northern Illinois this post season, because it's someone they've never heard of.

[MplsBison]

the uconn of 1979 isnt the uconn of today. the uconn of 1979 played i-aa football. the uconn of 1979 was focused on basketbal lfirst without a football priority. today, that isn't the case. playing fbd football gives you more potential resources, and that's obvious. why would non-football and fcs football schools associate with that, when they're already leaving to vacate themselves from schools that run with that mentality.

ok, so Buffalo is the flagship university of the SUNY system. i'll take that (or any of those others too). none of those schools have the same name as rutgers, uconn, umass or any other primary state schools like unc, alabama, nc state, v tech and so on. in perception, athletic dollars and so on, they are a glorified regional school when compared to uconn, they simply aren't there athletically. it isn't an apples to apples comparison.

It's a specific situation, one that your generalities are scraping over wrongly.

It's the fact that they've been with those schools in basketball since 1979 that would be why those schools would want UConn with. That IS the reason. As I said before, the fear of them leaving is a moot argument. Any of them would leave for the ACC, just like Notre Dame did. And again, football has nothing to do with it. It's not a football conference.


Yes UConn football budget might be greater than any MAC football budget. Maybe that would scare them off. That's why it's not a done deal, nothing of the sort. I was just throwing it out there as a possibility.

I just don't see any way the MAC wouldn't welcome them.

[fc97]

Spoken as a bitter, small school I-AA fan. You and LFN have your pity party.

The "other" I-A programs are more and more being seen in exactly the same way as known mid-majors like Butler. People are going to care and watch Northern Illinois this post season, because it's someone they've never heard of.

i'm not bitter. i was content in games in dii and i-aa without having the need to be the wannbe little guy. i personally don't care where we play as long as we're competing. so, there's nothing to be bitter about and i resent the fact that you think you know what you're talking about and just because someone has a differing opinion you drag out "small school" like it is some sort of insult.

what i can tell you is that sun belt, cusa and mac teams are seen as a joke. college football simply is not college basketball. if people lived to see upsets, you'd see people turning out in big numbers to watch these games on tv, or watching fcs teams play fbs teams. but, simply put, the numbers aren't there. and unlike in basketball where you will see fans of big teams watching and pulling for the underdogs, you simply do not get that in college football.

it just simply put isn't the same beast. and the fact that you see the big 10, big 12, pac-10, acc and sec investing in what does sell, their teams playing other big teams and a conference championship is further proof that the primary audience cares about one thing, the big boys. where in college basketball, you see a market driven by a much difference scenario.

[fc97]

It's a specific situation, one that your generalities are scraping over wrongly.

It's the fact that they've been with those schools in basketball since 1979 that would be why those schools would want UConn with. That IS the reason. As I said before, the fear of them leaving is a moot argument. Any of them would leave for the ACC, just like Notre Dame did. And again, football has nothing to do with it. It's not a football conference.


Yes UConn football budget might be greater than any MAC football budget. Maybe that would scare them off. That's why it's not a done deal, nothing of the sort. I was just throwing it out there as a possibility.

I just don't see any way the MAC wouldn't welcome them.

you don't see it because you only want to see your point of view. the difference between the be7+ and uconn isn't that they would all go to the acc if invited, it is the fact that the be7 won't be invited and uconn could be invited. that right there is enough of a risk not to jeopardize the mission they are creating by inviting a member school that is not like the others. it doesn't matter the history of it, things change. elon and app were founding members of a conference in the 1930s, western and east carolina were members for a long time. does that mean that all four should be associated now? no, dynamics change, school missions change, lots of factors change. its the simple reality of the situation.

again, you don't see why the mac wouldn't want them because you don't quite get it. why would i, a mac school, take in a school that is going to get every mens and womens basketball autobid, pretty much, yearly because i can't compete with them. right now, all mac schools have a shot, with uconn in, it is uconn's and no one else has a chance. it doesn't have much monetary benefit to the conference at all.

[fc97]

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2012/12/21/3793602/boise-state-leaving-big-east

Good. Get Boise and San Diego back in the MWC where they belong.

Doesn't really do anything to the Big East. It's still CUSA II + UConn and Temple. I even think Navy decides not to join and sticks it out as an independent. Which Temple and UConn should also consider, along with scheduling agreements each other and Navy and Army.

the academies can afford to stick it out as independents simply because they are guaranteed games against each other and a handful of others on national tv. uconn and temple have to rely on conferences to get them ANY tv coverage nationally. it isn't the same.

#1 - why does it bother you so much that others have an opinion
#2 - why does it bother you so much that conferences are moving national (why do you care so much that boise or sdsu might be the present big east)
#3 - why do you think you know everything

[MplsBison]

fc, I could also ask questions of yourself - such as why do you purposefully choose not to implement appropriate capitalization, grammar and spelling? - but I won't waste my time with that.

- Sun Belt, MAC and CUSA teams are not seen as a joke. You say this as a bitter I-AA fan. As I said, you and LFN go have your hate fest. Meanwhile, over on the *MAIN* ESPN channel (not 2), teams from each of those conferences are having their day at the forefront of the national media while the I-AA national championship game will just be a footnote, treated exactly the same as the DIII and DII national championship games.

- College bball and football aren't exactly the same, but my point is correct (and it works for any sport). The only compelling storyline to sell to a non-fan is the david v goliath matchup. That's it. You're dead wrong in saying all that matters in college football is goliath v goliath. Again, it's just yours and LFN's way of trying to drag down the mid-majors of college football down to I-AA level. It's false.

- The core 7 have no less a chance of being invited to the ACC than UConn. Wrong again. And they'd all go to the ACC, just like Notre Dame did. You just keep ducking all the correct points I bring up.

- UConn wouldn't be joining the MAC as all-sports. Stop playing dumb. You know darn well no one ever said anything of the sort. It'd be a football only option, which would only be taken if their non-football sports joined the core 7. Just like Temple previously and UMass currently take advantage of.

- UConn and Temple would fair no worse financially than Army and Navy. Those schools only have their Army v Navy game and Navy has it's Notre Dame game on national TV guaranteed. So what?

I'm not suggesting that UConn and Temple should go indy. I'm just saying it's an option if they decide their non-football sports are better off somewhere other than the Big East.

[superman7515]

Didn't take long for the fans to stop supporting the Big East...
Holy Land of Hoops (http://www.holylandofhoops.com/viewforum.php?f=2)

[Laker]

Didn't take long for the fans to stop supporting the Big East...
Holy Land of Hoops (http://www.holylandofhoops.com/viewforum.php?f=2)

Did you see the picture of Basketball Jesus on the Welcome thread?

[superman7515]

Did you see the picture of Basketball Jesus on the Welcome thread?

Yeah, I thought that was pretty good, haha.

[Laker]

This CYO expansion talk is reaching fantasy level. Add Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Wichita State and VCU??? The West coast travel was one of the problems that was caused by football expansion. Someone tell me what connection Wichita State has with this group? And VCU is the largest university in Virginia- over 31,000, and is a public school. That makes no sense at all.

[dgtw]

Adding Creighton? They do know that's in Nebraska don't they?

[dgtw]

The Ivy League did move down as a group, but they are a special case and everyone knows that. There may have been others that moved down on the early years of the two DI divisions, but there was bound to be a feeling out process as some saw they weren't fit for the FBS level. But no one has moved down in years.

The Big East was fine in the days when FBS independents could survive and thrive. Then the land scape changed (not sure what caused it), but now we are down to Notre Dame, BYU, Army and Navy and those all are special cases as well.

I don't know how long Idaho and NMSU can survive as independents. NMSU has just nine games scheduled for next year and only the home/home with Idaho after October 19.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Idaho and NMSU are "surviving", additionally, by playing each other twice next season. Does not bode well.

[superman7515]

The Big East was fine in the days when FBS independents could survive and thrive. Then the land scape changed (not sure what caused it), but now we are down to Notre Dame, BYU, Army and Navy and those all are special cases as well.

The Big East as a football conference started because FBS independents couldn't thrive anymore and banded together. Every football team in the first season of the Big East had been an independent in the seasons before.

[MplsBison]

Idaho and NMSU are "surviving", additionally, by playing each other twice next season. Does not bode well.

Maybe not, but they ain't moving down to I-AA and you know it.

[Laker]

SI article:

http://m.si.com/627787/whats-next-for-catholic-7-big-east/

[fc97]

Sun Belt, MAC and CUSA teams are not seen as a joke. You say this as a bitter I-AA fan. As I said, you and LFN go have your hate fest. Meanwhile, over on the *MAIN* ESPN channel (not 2), teams from each of those conferences are having their day at the forefront of the national media while the I-AA national championship game will just be a footnote, treated exactly the same as the DIII and DII national championship games.

In Dec-Mar, I can head to any sports bar across the country on business trips and catch people watching anything from a Duke game to North Florida playing Eastern Kentucky and people watch games with interest no matter who is playing.

Aug-Nov, if FCS football is on, people ask to have channels changed for specified SEC, ACC, PAC-10, Big 12 or Big 10 games depending on where I am. If the SB, MAC or CUSA is playing, the game is either ignored or changed like the FCS games. If a big conference team is playing an FCS game or one of those other conferences, people laugh about the other teams not playing real football. This attitude ranges across the country and into Canada.

Until that attitude changes, those conferences to the main base being marketing to views those teams as a joke. Until those attitudes change and people are willing to watch those games and view those teams as some sort of equals, they will continue to be viewed as a joke. the one exception is the MWC.

That's the shortof it. If this was the view in a particular area, I would chalk it up regional bias. But, it is country-wide.

And I used capitals. Happy?

[dgtw]

I live in Alabama. Unless you went there, nobody cares about schools other than Alabama or Auburn. Here in Birmingham, the hometown team, UAB, is virtually ignored and might as well be in the OVC or SoCon.

[MplsBison]

In Dec-Mar, I can head to any sports bar across the country on business trips and catch people watching anything from a Duke game to North Florida playing Eastern Kentucky and people watch games with interest no matter who is playing.

Aug-Nov, if FCS football is on, people ask to have channels changed for specified SEC, ACC, PAC-10, Big 12 or Big 10 games depending on where I am. If the SB, MAC or CUSA is playing, the game is either ignored or changed like the FCS games. If a big conference team is playing an FCS game or one of those other conferences, people laugh about the other teams not playing real football. This attitude ranges across the country and into Canada.

Until that attitude changes, those conferences to the main base being marketing to views those teams as a joke. Until those attitudes change and people are willing to watch those games and view those teams as some sort of equals, they will continue to be viewed as a joke. the one exception is the MWC.

That's the shortof it. If this was the view in a particular area, I would chalk it up regional bias. But, it is country-wide.

And I used capitals. Happy?

Nope, you're wrong. They are not viewed as a joke and your personal experiences do not prove otherwise.

Yes, thank you for being proper.

[fc97]

Nope, you're wrong. They are not viewed as a joke and your personal experiences do not prove otherwise.

Yes, thank you for being proper.

I hate to break to you, but a sample size of at least 16 cities says differently. That you disagree doesn't make it true. Whether this is true or not is left to be seen, but ratings state differently.

[superman7515]

Boise State Staying In Mountain West (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8796807/boise-state-broncos-staying-mountain-west-conference-sources-say)


Boise State will remain a member of the Mountain West Conference and will not join the Big East in 2013, sources told ESPN on Monday.

The Broncos' decision on Monday is the latest crippling blow to the Big East Conference, which has had 14 schools announce they were leaving the league in the past two years.

The Broncos will remain a Mountain West member in all sports instead of joining the Big East next year as a football-only member and the Big West in all other sports.

Although Boise State never spent a day in the Big East, the Broncos still must pay a $10 million exit fee to the Big East. The Mountain West is expected to help pay that fee, sources said.

As devastating as Boise State's decision is to the Big East, it's just as big a boost to the future of the Mountain West.

With Boise State remaining in the MWC, the league will have 11 football members in 2013: Air Force, Boise State, Colorado State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Nevada, New Mexico, San Jose State, UNLV, Utah State and Wyoming.

Boise State's decision also will impact the Mountain West's television deal. Last week, the MWC and CBS agreed to restructure their deal, which will allow the Mountain West to sell packages to two other networks. With Boise State remaining, the value of the MWC's deal could increase to at least $25 million, sources told ESPN.

Meanwhile, the Big East still tries to negotiate its new media-rights deal  the league's basketball deal will expire after this season, and the football deal will expire after the 2013-14 season  with an uncertain future.

In November, the Big East announced Boise State would be in the league's West division along with San Diego State, Houston, Memphis, SMU and Temple. The East division: Louisville, Rutgers, Cincinnati, UConn, South Florida and UCF.

It's unknown now whether the Big East will keep the two-division format next season with only 11 members in 2013.

The Big East also could lose another member, as San Diego State may return to the Mountain West....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Boise State's decision also will impact the Mountain West's television deal. Last week, the MWC and CBS agreed to restructure their deal, which will allow the Mountain West to sell packages to two other networks. With Boise State remaining, the value of the MWC's deal could increase to at least $25 million, sources told ESPN.

These sources ought to be drug-tested. Or, maybe, just maybe, ESPN is trying to jack up the rights paid by a competitor, CBS, for a property they already own.

Because of the Boise TV market. xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Laker]

Boise State Staying In Mountain West

Happy New Year. Now if San Diego State returns to the MWC at least it will make more geographic sense. I'm thinking that some schools are waiting for the bowls to be done before they announce what they will do.

[MplsBison]

Happy New Year. Now if San Diego State returns to the MWC at least it will make more geographic sense. I'm thinking that some schools are waiting for the bowls to be done before they announce what they will do.

SDSU is going back to the MWC. Done deal. They don't have to pay an exit fee if Boise didn't join.

They won't get the sweetheart deal that Boise got from the MWC, of course, but they'll be back. If for nothing else, because they have a pretty good bball program and playing in the Big West would hurt.


Kinda sucks for NM St and Idaho, they have probably no chance at an MWC invite even just for football. Obviously we know Idaho is going to the Big Sky for non-football. Not sure what NM St is doing, but maybe the Sun Belt.

Unless the MWC tries to get to 16, then possibly Idaho and NM St have a chance.


I'd also expect Navy to back out of joining as a football member. This also gives no chance for BYU, Air Force or any other MWC football team of joining the Big East.

[walliver]

SDSU is going back to the MWC. Done deal. They don't have to pay an exit fee if Boise didn't join.

They won't get the sweetheart deal that Boise got from the MWC, of course, but they'll be back. If for nothing else, because they have a pretty good bball program and playing in the Big West would hurt.


Kinda sucks for NM St and Idaho, they have probably no chance at an MWC invite even just for football. Obviously we know Idaho is going to the Big Sky for non-football. Not sure what NM St is doing, but maybe the Sun Belt.

Unless the MWC tries to get to 16, then possibly Idaho and NM St have a chance.


I'd also expect Navy to back out of joining as a football member. This also gives no chance for BYU, Air Force or any other MWC football team of joining the Big East.

I doubt BYU, Navy or Air Force would want to join the non-BCS Big East. The new Big East will be a mid-major conference.

I suspect ECU will get an all sports invitation, and they may try to raid CUSA again.

[narc]

I doubt BYU, Navy or Air Force would want to join the non-BCS Big East. The new Big East will be a mid-major conference.

I suspect ECU will get an all sports invitation, and they may try to raid CUSA again.

I know it seems crazy (especially to me), but I wonder if this opens the door for ODU to get an invite to whatever is left of the BE? They have the TV market angle and meet the requirement the BE seems to have of being a C-USA member.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I doubt BYU, Navy or Air Force would want to join the non-BCS Big East. The new Big East will be a mid-major conference.

I suspect ECU will get an all sports invitation, and they may try to raid CUSA again.


I know it seems crazy (especially to me), but I wonder if this opens the door for ODU to get an invite to whatever is left of the BE? They have the TV market angle and meet the requirement the BE seems to have of being a C-USA member.

Navy and Air Force will come as a unit, and they'll hope for Army to come along for the ride so they can get all that commander-in-chief stuff. Air Force also doesn't have the same travel restrictions as other schools.

Not inconceivable at all to see ODU in a reconfigured Big East. UConn, Cincy, Temple, ODU, Navy, Army, Air Force, ECU, USF is a good football conference. Trouble is Army and Navy are football only.

The real interesting piece of the puzzle is if the ACC breaks apart. Then you have UConn, Cincy, Temple, Duke, Wake, Temple, ECU, USF. That's a damned interesting start of a good basketball conference. And again, ODU fits perfectly as a puzzle piece in the middle.

[totoinfl]

I think the BE landscape is still to be developed more than what hypothetical solutions you here or anywhere else. Boise State bent the MWC over and got what they wanted. The BE just wouldn't do it (package BSU home games and allow BSU to sell them where they want). The MWC is paying the $3m exit fee for BSU as well. SDSU would be smart to figure it out quickly...I read the MWC gave them until 1/31 to make their decision. East Carolina and Tulane have opted for BE...not sure what good that does anyone...neither one brings the TV market, however ECU football is very decent.




Navy and Air Force will come as a unit, and they'll hope for Army to come along for the ride so they can get all that commander-in-chief stuff. Air Force also doesn't have the same travel restrictions as other schools.

Not inconceivable at all to see ODU in a reconfigured Big East. UConn, Cincy, Temple, ODU, Navy, Army, Air Force, ECU, USF is a good football conference. Trouble is Army and Navy are football only.

The real interesting piece of the puzzle is if the ACC breaks apart. Then you have UConn, Cincy, Temple, Duke, Wake, Temple, ECU, USF. That's a damned interesting start of a good basketball conference. And again, ODU fits perfectly as a puzzle piece in the middle.

[nwFL Griz]

Navy and Air Force will come as a unit, and they'll hope for Army to come along for the ride so they can get all that commander-in-chief stuff. Air Force also doesn't have the same travel restrictions as other schools.

Not inconceivable at all to see ODU in a reconfigured Big East. UConn, Cincy, Temple, ODU, Navy, Army, Air Force, ECU, USF is a good football conference. Trouble is Army and Navy are football only.

The real interesting piece of the puzzle is if the ACC breaks apart. Then you have UConn, Cincy, Temple, Duke, Wake, Temple, ECU, USF. That's a damned interesting start of a good basketball conference. And again, ODU fits perfectly as a puzzle piece in the middle.

Nonsense. Air Force already said no once, and that was after BSU and SDSU had already said yes. AFA has some strong ties to many members of the MWC, and would be very hard pressed to sever those ties. A non-BCS Big East is not a strong enough reason for them to leave the MWC.

[citdog]

If hudson high, canoe u, and the colorado school of golf instruction move all together into the Big East with the schools named I think The Citadel would do what is necessary to be a part of that.

[aceinthehole]

Nonsense. Air Force already said no once, and that was after BSU and SDSU had already said yes. AFA has some strong ties to many members of the MWC, and would be very hard pressed to sever those ties. A non-BCS Big East is not a strong enough reason for them to leave the MWC.

Navy is getting cold feet as well. Very good chance they never play a BE football game either.

SDSU can leave the BE without paying a fee, and as noted before, the Boise State-MWC deal requires that SDSU is given the first offer to join. With those facts in hand, I'd say it is almost certain that San Diego State joins Boise in the MWC.

[DFW HOYA]

Boise State had the Mountain West over a barrel and exerted its muscle appropriately. They get to keep their own TV rights, get paid up to $500,000 a game by the conference if the MWC gets the Broncos on ESPN or Fox, and keeps half its bowl money instead of sharing it equally as the ten other teams must do.

Not even BYU has a deal this nice.

[nwFL Griz]

Navy is getting cold feet as well. Very good chance they never play a BE football game either.

SDSU can leave the BE without paying a fee, and as noted before, the Boise State-MWC deal requires that SDSU is given the first offer to join. With those facts in hand, I'd say it is almost certain that San Diego State joins Boise in the MWC.

Agree 100%. The current state of the BE is not what Navy had in mind when they agreed to join up, I think.

+1 on SDSU being back in the MWC.

[aceinthehole]

Boise State had the Mountain West over a barrel and exerted its muscle appropriately. They get to keep their own TV rights, get paid up to $500,000 a game by the conference if the MWC gets the Broncos on ESPN or Fox, and keeps half its bowl money instead of sharing it equally as the ten other teams must do.

Not even BYU has a deal this nice.

Yes, but a few clarifications:

Boise State home games are packaged and sold separately than the rest of the MWC games, but the revenue from those games are pooled with the league. Just games televised on ESPN, ESPN2, ABC, NBC, CBS, or Fox are paid a bonus to the home team.

The deal says any MWC teams that gets invited to a BCS bowl gets 50% and the remainder is split among the remaining schools.

The rules favor Boise because they have a history of playing in big games, but the deal is really a revenue sharing plan that rewards any MWC team that increases the league exposure. On the surface to me it looks like a win-win for both sides, although I didn't like the deal that allows Boise to wear all blue uniforms at home.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/01/01/2398467/future-big-time-bowl-game-appearances.html

[nwFL Griz]

Yes, but a few clarifications:

Boise State home games are packaged and sold separately than the rest of the MWC games, but the revenue from those games are pooled with the league. Just games televised on ESPN, ESPN2, ABC, CBS, or Fox are paid a bonus to the home team.

The deal says any MWC teams that gets invited to a BCS bowl gets 50% and the remainder is split among the remaining schools.

The rules favor Boise because they have a history of playing in big games, but the deal is really a revenue sharing plan that rewards any MWC team that increases the league exposure. On the surface to me it looks like a win-win for both sides, although I didn't like the deal that allows Boise to wear all blue uniforms at home.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/01/01/2398467/future-big-time-bowl-game-appearances.html

Such a non-issue it isn't even funny. It's actually only bad for those of us watching the game on TV. If you are a player or watching at the stadium, it is nothing.

[Laker]

Such a non-issue it isn't even funny. It's actually only bad for those of us watching the game on TV. If you are a player or watching at the stadium, it is nothing.

On the very sunny day that I was there, I was glad that I had good sunglasses. I would have gotten a headache without them.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Nonsense. Air Force already said no once, and that was after BSU and SDSU had already said yes. AFA has some strong ties to many members of the MWC, and would be very hard pressed to sever those ties. A non-BCS Big East is not a strong enough reason for them to leave the MWC.

If Navy and Army are in a conference that can qualify for halfway-decent bowls, AFA will be in that conference. Their ties to Army and Navy are stronger than those to Colorado State, let's get real.

I'm not saying there aren't hurdles to overcome. Navy and Army don't move as a single unit. Big East football is in tatters right now. But that's not to say that something could emerge here that could be very compelling for AFA. A league that encompasses the commander-in-chief trophy, trips to Philadelphia, Florida and Texas and still allows a full slot of OOC matchups (something they haven't had, with their games every year against Army and Navy) could be very compelling. Much better than armed forces recruiting in Colorado and Boise.

[Babar]

If Navy and Army are in a conference that can qualify for halfway-decent bowls, AFA will be in that conference. Their ties to Army and Navy are stronger than those to Colorado State, let's get real.

I'm not saying there aren't hurdles to overcome. Navy and Army don't move as a single unit. Big East football is in tatters right now. But that's not to say that something could emerge here that could be very compelling for AFA. A league that encompasses the commander-in-chief trophy, trips to Philadelphia, Florida and Texas and still allows a full slot of OOC matchups (something they haven't had, with their games every year against Army and Navy) could be very compelling. Much better than armed forces recruiting in Colorado and Boise.

I'm sure a league that had two service academies would want the third...but I'm not clear at all on why the service academies would feel the need to be in the same league. Army and Navy are much closer geographically, and haven't seen the need to be in the same football conference. All the service academies will play every year regardless of conference affiliation, and have been doing so forever. Being in the same league would open up OOC slots, you're right, and that's a consideration, since the academies have a mandate to play across the country for recruiting purposes. But along the same lines, as independents, Army and Navy essentially have 12-13 OOC slots a year. Any league affiliation costs Army and Navy opportunities to set their own schedules.

I will be very surprised if Navy sticks with the Big East, and even more surprised if Army goes that direction. The academies don't need conferences for bowl tie-ins, don't really need the TV dollars, and will remain relevant no matter how poorly their teams do.

[JimLU]

I'm sure a league that had two service academies would want the third...but I'm not clear at all on why the service academies would feel the need to be in the same league. Army and Navy are much closer geographically, and haven't seen the need to be in the same football conference. All the service academies will play every year regardless of conference affiliation, and have been doing so forever. Being in the same league would open up OOC slots, you're right, and that's a consideration, since the academies have a mandate to play across the country for recruiting purposes. But along the same lines, as independents, Army and Navy essentially have 12-13 OOC slots a year. Any league affiliation costs Army and Navy opportunities to set their own schedules.

I will be very surprised if Navy sticks with the Big East, and even more surprised if Army goes that direction. The academies don't need conferences for bowl tie-ins, don't really need the TV dollars, and will remain relevant no matter how poorly their teams do.
I didn't understand why Navy wanted the BE to begin with for all the reasons mentioned above. Plus, as we all know, Army & Navy will always be restricted to a very small and selective pool of potential recruits. And since most everyone is thrilled to schedule them, as independants they can remain respectable by carefully scheduling 2 or 3 stretch games, 4 or 5 games where they should be competitive, and 2 or 3 gimmes (note to Army: Fordham yes, Stony Brook no).

[Laker]

It won't happen- but a football league of Air Force, Army, Navy plus Duke, Northwestern, Rice, Vanderbilt and Wake Forest would be about as good academically as you could get- and still leave the academies some OOC games.

Stanford would be too tough for this group.

[Sader87]

I've said it for awhile, scoff away, but Army and Navy will be playing football in the Patriot League in the not too distant future. FBS football is quickly becoming untenable to them on the playing field itself....they simply can't match up physically at that level week-in, week-out going forward.

[MplsBison]

I've said it for awhile, scoff away, but Army and Navy will be playing football in the Patriot League in the not too distant future. FBS football is quickly becoming untenable to them on the playing field itself....they simply can't match up physically at that level week-in, week-out going forward.

I can't say why, but my instinct says nothing could be farther from the truth. Not that they can match up physically, that's not what I mean.

I think the academies would rather drop football than "move down". Navy is actually fairly competitive and Army can do just as good as Navy with the right coaching.


If they ever did play I-AA football, I'm certain you're correct and they'd play in the PL. Just don't see the move taking place.

[MplsBison]

I'm sure a league that had two service academies would want the third...but I'm not clear at all on why the service academies would feel the need to be in the same league. Army and Navy are much closer geographically, and haven't seen the need to be in the same football conference. All the service academies will play every year regardless of conference affiliation, and have been doing so forever. Being in the same league would open up OOC slots, you're right, and that's a consideration, since the academies have a mandate to play across the country for recruiting purposes. But along the same lines, as independents, Army and Navy essentially have 12-13 OOC slots a year. Any league affiliation costs Army and Navy opportunities to set their own schedules.

I will be very surprised if Navy sticks with the Big East, and even more surprised if Army goes that direction. The academies don't need conferences for bowl tie-ins, don't really need the TV dollars, and will remain relevant no matter how poorly their teams do.

Well said.

[MplsBison]

Agree 100%. The current state of the BE is not what Navy had in mind when they agreed to join up, I think.

+1 on SDSU being back in the MWC.

HA!

NO ONE had the what the Big East has become in mind. It's literally nothing of what it was.

[344Johnson]

I can't say why, but my instinct says nothing could be farther from the truth. Not that they can match up physically, that's not what I mean.

I think the academies would rather drop football than "move down". Navy is actually fairly competitive and Army can do just as good as Navy with the right coaching.


If they ever did play I-AA football, I'm certain you're correct and they'd play in the PL. Just don't see the move taking place.

For once I agree with Mpls for one reason only. My cousin is a recent West Point grad, says that the boosters...aka generals and stuff, think that Army is a legit FBS school. They won't be leaving anytime soon.

[Sader87]

I can't say why, but my instinct says nothing could be farther from the truth. Not that they can match up physically, that's not what I mean.

I think the academies would rather drop football than "move down". Navy is actually fairly competitive and Army can do just as good as Navy with the right coaching.


If they ever did play I-AA football, I'm certain you're correct and they'd play in the PL. Just don't see the move taking place.

I think a lot of this is going to "shake out" with the advent of the "super-conferences"....there really will be no place for Annapolis or West Point to play in what essentially will be a de-facto minor league for the NFL.

[Babar]

I've said it for awhile, scoff away, but Army and Navy will be playing football in the Patriot League in the not too distant future. FBS football is quickly becoming untenable to them on the playing field itself....they simply can't match up physically at that level week-in, week-out going forward.

Navy is three years away from a 10 win team. Army's down, but Air Force has gone to bowls every year since 2006. They're doing fine.

[MplsBison]

I think a lot of this is going to "shake out" with the advent of the "super-conferences"....there really will be no place for Annapolis or West Point to play in what essentially will be a de-facto minor league for the NFL.

Maybe, but in that scenario they'd rather be with the schools playing in the Big East, CUSA, MWC, MAC and Sun Belt than in the Patriot League - I think.

[Sader87]

Navy is three years away from a 10 win team. Army's down, but Air Force has gone to bowls every year since 2006. They're doing fine.

They really aren't though....Army and Navy, particularly, cherry-pick their schedules against mostly MAC and Sun-Belt opponents to make their records look better, become bowl eligible etc.

I just see all three basically trending downward...it's going to be VERY difficult for them to remain FBS especially in a world of a "64 or so super-conference teams." They could stay at that next level and play the Texas St's and Ball St's of the world but ultimately, would they rather compete against 2nd tier FBS schools or against their true academic/athletic peers of the Ivy and Patriot League? We shall see...I'm betting on the later.

[walliver]

Since every student at the academies is on scholarship, would the FCS rules need to be rewritten?

I would doubt the Academies would go to FCS unless all the mid-majors are forced down.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I didn't understand why Navy wanted the BE to begin with for all the reasons mentioned above. Plus, as we all know, Army & Navy will always be restricted to a very small and selective pool of potential recruits. And since most everyone is thrilled to schedule them, as independants they can remain respectable by carefully scheduling 2 or 3 stretch games, 4 or 5 games where they should be competitive, and 2 or 3 gimmes (note to Army: Fordham yes, Stony Brook no).

I think Navy hitched their wagon to the Big East as a hedge against football blowing up and separating - plus, a transcontinental conference with SDSU (a big-time Navy port) and Texas would have been good for them. Tulane works, too, with this worldview. I get the impression AFA was always a part of their plans.

Don't underestimate that threat/fear of the independents being left behind in realignment. While everything I've ever read has emphasized that Army and Navy are seperate entities and make separate decisions (this was true when Army joined C-USA and Navy remained indy), this is a new world, there's a lot of money and there's no telling how the TV, or even the NCAA is going to work going forward. Unlike all-sports members, Army and Navy's main goal is to protect their football programs at the "highest level", and that's why I think Navy did what they did.

So does that mean that the C-USA flavored Big East Football Conference does not do that for Navy? Perhaps. But again, what if Army and AFA join up? It's a whole different league.

[Sader87]

Not to be too trite, but ultimately, the football players at the SA's are there to be trained as military officers first and foremost...the more the college football world evolves into a money driven, internship for professional football (not that it isn't already...but it will get worse) the less incentive Army, Navy and Air Force will have in participating at that level.

[344Johnson]

This App fan will get over the fact that his girlfriend slept with the same guy he did.....

http://imgur.com/gallery/7hmOh

http://imgur.com/gallery/7hmOh

[Babar]

They really aren't though....Army and Navy, particularly, cherry-pick their schedules against mostly MAC and Sun-Belt opponents to make their records look better, become bowl eligible etc.

I just see all three basically trending downward...it's going to be VERY difficult for them to remain FBS especially in a world of a "64 or so super-conference teams." They could stay at that next level and play the Texas St's and Ball St's of the world but ultimately, would they rather compete against 2nd tier FBS schools or against their true academic/athletic peers of the Ivy and Patriot League? We shall see...I'm betting on the later.

Well, okay, if you're envisioning a world where the top 64 break off, I can see the service academies being left out. That would be an earthquake. There's a good chance it would involve pay-for-play and a semi-pro structure outside the NCAA, and in that case I can definitely see the academies on the outside. A lot of other schools might be left out, too: schools like Northwestern would have to make some hard decisions about the values they represent.

Short of that, though, the academies aren't going anywhere. They are actually more comfortable in their skins than any of the other schools left in the Big East, MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, or MWC. They're probably more comfortable than some of the schools in the ACC. Even terrible old Army--they can get Stanford and Oklahoma to play them at home, something impossible for a MAC or Sun Belt school. Regardless of the physical size of the lines (it makes me cringe some times, they're so small), they're under no pressure as a program.

[Babar]

Since every student at the academies is on scholarship, would the FCS rules need to be rewritten?

Somebody from the Patriot League probably knows the answer to this better than I do, but I think the service academies already have a special NCAA exemption, which is how they field other Division I sports with a scholarship structure different than everybody else's.

[fc97]

i feel like mplsbison is correct on this one. most of the non-bcs fbs schools have an all or nothing attitude. i just don't see much of anyone, outside a few isolated cases in the west, making the voluntary jump in what it perceived to be downward. that is all put sticking a nail in the coffin for public attitude and alumni morale.

[totoinfl]

in the "super-conference" world...it think there is more room. The 64 or whatever teams in the those mega conferences will separate themselves and the balance of the current FBS teams will be scrapping it out with each other. I don't see CS, Annapolis or West Point moving to FCS anytime soon.


I think a lot of this is going to "shake out" with the advent of the "super-conferences"....there really will be no place for Annapolis or West Point to play in what essentially will be a de-facto minor league for the NFL.

[totoinfl]

Air Force is .500 for the past two years with an overall losing record this year. They were a 6 win bowl participant. When the mega conferences convince the NCAA that they get more scholarships too...the playing field will change again dramatically. I don't see how teams like Maryland think they are going to compete when they are dropping sports like crazy and trying to move to the Big10...The fallout has just begun.


They really aren't though....Army and Navy, particularly, cherry-pick their schedules against mostly MAC and Sun-Belt opponents to make their records look better, become bowl eligible etc.

I just see all three basically trending downward...it's going to be VERY difficult for them to remain FBS especially in a world of a "64 or so super-conference teams." They could stay at that next level and play the Texas St's and Ball St's of the world but ultimately, would they rather compete against 2nd tier FBS schools or against their true academic/athletic peers of the Ivy and Patriot League? We shall see...I'm betting on the later.

[totoinfl]

Technically they don't offer athletic scholarships. Also, they have repayment after completion of school...5 years in service or 8 years in the case of some specialty positions...i.e. pilots.


Somebody from the Patriot League probably knows the answer to this better than I do, but I think the service academies already have a special NCAA exemption, which is how they field other Division I sports with a scholarship structure different than everybody else's.

[totoinfl]

I think you hit that dead on...it was a don't get left behind move. Actually pretty shrewd to stretch the joining until 2015...a lot of shake out will be done by then and Navy can make a decision to continue down that road or not.

Texas, Florida and California are key to Navy recruiting. The BE with SDSU, SMU, Houston, UCF and USF helps.



I think Navy hitched their wagon to the Big East as a hedge against football blowing up and separating - plus, a transcontinental conference with SDSU (a big-time Navy port) and Texas would have been good for them. Tulane works, too, with this worldview. I get the impression AFA was always a part of their plans.

Don't underestimate that threat/fear of the independents being left behind in realignment. While everything I've ever read has emphasized that Army and Navy are seperate entities and make separate decisions (this was true when Army joined C-USA and Navy remained indy), this is a new world, there's a lot of money and there's no telling how the TV, or even the NCAA is going to work going forward. Unlike all-sports members, Army and Navy's main goal is to protect their football programs at the "highest level", and that's why I think Navy did what they did.

So does that mean that the C-USA flavored Big East Football Conference does not do that for Navy? Perhaps. But again, what if Army and AFA join up? It's a whole different league.

[aceinthehole]

I've said it for awhile, scoff away, but Army and Navy will be playing football in the Patriot League in the not too distant future. FBS football is quickly becoming untenable to them on the playing field itself....they simply can't match up physically at that level week-in, week-out going forward.

Not going to happen in our lifetime.

Forget the the issue of "dropping down" to play FCS for just a second, and you will see Army/Navy is 100% unwilling to schedule football games at PL schools. Their scheduling is nationwide - they rather play at FBS dregs like San Jose State, North Texas, or Florida Atlantic rather than play at Colgate, Fordham, or Bucknell. No way you can get around that issue. They need to play infront of their troops across the Nation.

[aceinthehole]

They really aren't though....Army and Navy, particularly, cherry-pick their schedules against mostly MAC and Sun-Belt opponents to make their records look better, become bowl eligible etc.

Exactly! They have the flexibility to schedule winnable games infront of their alumni/troops/bases and get to be part of the "big boys" club. Just look at the ND-Navy realtionship - ND values it just as much as Navy does.

Army/Navy both have their own TV deal that gets them infront of many more cable subscribers than any FCS league can provide. They aren't trying to win a National Championship - they are just the flagship programs of the US Armed Forces. They will ALWAYS be part of the top tier of football (even if they don't win many games).

[aceinthehole]

Well, okay, if you're envisioning a world where the top 64 break off, I can see the service academies being left out. That would be an earthquake. There's a good chance it would involve pay-for-play and a semi-pro structure outside the NCAA, and in that case I can definitely see the academies on the outside. A lot of other schools might be left out, too: schools like Northwestern would have to make some hard decisions about the values they represent.

Short of that, though, the academies aren't going anywhere. They are actually more comfortable in their skins than any of the other schools left in the Big East, MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, or MWC. They're probably more comfortable than some of the schools in the ACC. Even terrible old Army--they can get Stanford and Oklahoma to play them at home, something impossible for a MAC or Sun Belt school. Regardless of the physical size of the lines (it makes me cringe some times, they're so small), they're under no pressure as a program.

+1

[Sader87]

Not going to happen in our lifetime.

Forget the the issue of "dropping down" to play FCS for just a second, and you will see Army/Navy is 100% unwilling to schedule football games at PL schools. Their scheduling is nationwide - they rather play at FBS dregs like San Jose State, North Texas, or Florida Atlantic rather than play at Colgate, Fordham, or Bucknell. No way you can get around that issue. They need to play infront of their troops across the Nation.

Again, agree to disagree, but both Army and Navy were playing a lot of Patriot and Ivy schools in the 1970's and 1980's. They had to get away from this due to the newer NCAA rules which allowed a school only to "count" one 1-AA win towards bowl eligibility.

This belief that Army and Navy (or Air Force) is a great draw around the country is something of a fallacy as well. The regular Army and Navy folks, for the most part, couldn't really care less about the academies football teams.

Believe me, I know there is a hardcore group that wants to keep the SA's amoungst the football elite, but with each passing year, it's going to be harder and harder for them to justify doing so.

[DFW HOYA]

Army and Navy play lower tier I-A schools for recruiting purposes. There are far more recruits to attract in areas like the Bay Area (San Jose St.), Dallas-Ft. Worth (North Texas) or South Florida (Florida Atlantic) than Hamilton, Easton, or Lewisburg.

That's not going to change significantly with or without scholarships. Either way, I'm not making plans to see the Hoyas at West Point anytime soon.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

USMA and USNA will host more Patriot League football schools with 60 scholarships, but not only will they remain in FBS as long as they are in FBS, they will fight like hell to stay there. Look no further than Navy, who was willing to go to the Big East to protect themselves to stay in that echelon.

Navy will never voluntarily reclassify as long as there is a Notre Dame.

[totoinfl]

I for one don't believe they can be with the football elite either, but neither is the Sun Belt, MAC, C-USA, MWC or the WAC...it remains to be seen if the BE will be, but I doubt it. The PAC-12, Big 12 (maybe), SEC, ACC (maybe) and Big 10 will continue to be football elite. I say maybe for Big 12 and ACC because I don't think reshuffling is done and until it is, they look like the two players with the most to lose. I think the SA's can compete with the first group and will continue to schedule the occasional game with the second group, depending upon conference alignments or independent status. Regarding schedules...maybe do some research. Navy played a total of 10 games against lower division teams in the 70's...mostly William & Mary and the Citadel...


Again, agree to disagree, but both Army and Navy were playing a lot of Patriot and Ivy schools in the 1970's and 1980's. They had to get away from this due to the newer NCAA rules which allowed a school only to "count" one 1-AA win towards bowl eligibility.

This belief that Army and Navy (or Air Force) is a great draw around the country is something of a fallacy as well. The regular Army and Navy folks, for the most part, couldn't really care less about the academies football teams.

Believe me, I know there is a hardcore group that wants to keep the SA's amoungst the football elite, but with each passing year, it's going to be harder and harder for them to justify doing so.

[DFW HOYA]

Navy will never voluntarily reclassify as long as there is a Notre Dame.

Neitehr Navy nor Army will recalaasify as long as there are Air Force generals that meet them in the Pentagon hallways and remind them that USAFA can still compete at the highest level.

[totoinfl]

+1


Neitehr Navy nor Army will recalaasify as long as there are Air Force generals that meet them in the Pentagon hallways and remind them that USAFA can still compete at the highest level.

[Sader87]

Neitehr Navy nor Army will recalaasify as long as there are Air Force generals that meet them in the Pentagon hallways and remind them that USAFA can still compete at the highest level.

Losing to Rice 33-14 isn't helping matters. I think Air Force's life in FBS is precarious as well.

As for not doing research, I give you Navy's 1-AA opponents fro '81-'89:

81: Citadel, EKU, Yale, W&M
82: W&M and Citadel
83: Lehigh and Princeton
84: Lehigh and Princeton
85: Delaware and Lafayette
86: Lehigh, Dartmouth, Delaware
87: W&M, Lehigh, Penn, Delaware
88: JMU, Delaware, Citadel, Yale
89: Citadel, JMU, Delaware

Army played just as many 1-AA's then if not more. Point being, it's not unprecedented that these schools play a lot of 1-AA's schools...I could see them returning to this sort of schedule down the road.

As for attendance, here are Army and Navy's road game numbers in 2012:

Army:
@SD St 30,799
@Wake 30,207
@EMU 4,252
@Rutgers 43,250

Navy:
@Penn St 98,792
@Air Force 38,927
@Central Mich 15,074
@ECU 48,327
@Troy 24,321

[aceinthehole]

With the addition of PL schollys, I think Army/Navy are much more likely to schedule more PL opponents at home as their FCS opponent, but it is likely that days of them playing 3 or 4 FCS teams in a year are probably gone because they can get home/home deals aginst lower-tier FBS opponents in their recruiting areas across the country

Question: when was the last time AF/Army/Navy went on the road to play AT an FCS/I-AA team?

Answer:
Air Force never played on the road vs. a lower division opponent
Army at Yale (1988)
Navy at Delaware (1992)

[totoinfl]

Army definitely has issues. Outside of the ECU game (played during a no travel advised weekend)...all those numbers are in the top 2 or 3 attendance marks for the team for the season, excepting glass bowl at CMU (who just can't draw fans) and the Penn State game was their largest home attendance of the season...the 80's and 90's were dark days in Navy football...not a lot of winning seasons...and some pretty bad coaches in there too. As well, the schedules turned around about 1992 and haven't been like that since.

QUOTE=Sader87;1926720]Losing to Rice 33-14 isn't helping matters. I think Air Force's life in FBS is precarious as well.

As for not doing research, I give you Navy's 1-AA opponents fro '81-'89:

81: Citadel, EKU, Yale, W&M
82: W&M and Citadel
83: Lehigh and Princeton
84: Lehigh and Princeton
85: Delaware and Lafayette
86: Lehigh, Dartmouth, Delaware
87: W&M, Lehigh, Penn, Delaware
88: JMU, Delaware, Citadel, Yale
89: Citadel, JMU, Delaware

Army played just as many 1-AA's then if not more. Point being, it's not unprecedented that these schools play a lot of 1-AA's schools...I could see them returning to this sort of schedule down the road.

As for attendance, here are Army and Navy's road game numbers in 2012:

Army:
@SD St 30,799
@Wake 30,207
@EMU 4,252
@Rutgers 43,250

Navy:
@Penn St 98,792
@Air Force 38,927
@Central Mich 15,074
@ECU 48,327
@Troy 24,321[/QUOTE]

[Go Green]

Question: when was the last time AF/Army/Navy went on the road to play AT an FCS/I-AA team?



Army is visiting New Haven to play Yale in 2014.

[Go Green]

As for not doing research, I give you Navy's 1-AA opponents fro '81-'89:

81: Citadel, EKU, Yale, W&M
82: W&M and Citadel
83: Lehigh and Princeton
84: Lehigh and Princeton
85: Delaware and Lafayette
86: Lehigh, Dartmouth, Delaware
87: W&M, Lehigh, Penn, Delaware
88: JMU, Delaware, Citadel, Yale
89: Citadel, JMU, Delaware


Small quibble, but Navy also played (and lost to) Penn in 1986.

[walliver]

Losing to Rice 33-14 isn't helping matters. I think Air Force's life in FBS is precarious as well.

As for not doing research, I give you Navy's 1-AA opponents fro '81-'89:

81: Citadel, EKU, Yale, W&M
82: W&M and Citadel
83: Lehigh and Princeton
84: Lehigh and Princeton
85: Delaware and Lafayette
86: Lehigh, Dartmouth, Delaware
87: W&M, Lehigh, Penn, Delaware
88: JMU, Delaware, Citadel, Yale
89: Citadel, JMU, Delaware

...

I fail to see what football schedules from over 20 years ago have to do with the Academies in 2013.

[UAalum72]

As for not doing research, I give you Navy's 1-AA opponents fro '81-'89:

81: Citadel, EKU, Yale, W&M
82: W&M and Citadel
83: Lehigh and Princeton
84: Lehigh and Princeton
85: Delaware and Lafayette
86: Lehigh, Dartmouth, Delaware
87: W&M, Lehigh, Penn, Delaware
88: JMU, Delaware, Citadel, Yale
89: Citadel, JMU, Delaware

In 1981, Yale, W&M, and The Cit were still classified Division I-A.

[nwFL Griz]

I am bowing out of this thread, far too much uninformed nonsense being spread here.

[Go Green]

I am bowing out of this thread, far too much uninformed nonsense being spread here.

Sheesh.

Just because folks don't know Army's 2014 schedule or that Penn beat Navy in 1986 is no reason to get all huffy...

xnonox

[nwFL Griz]

Sheesh.

Just because folks don't know Army's 2014 schedule or that Penn beat Navy in 1986 is no reason to get all huffy...

xnonox

LOL, not what I was talking about, but carry on.

[totoinfl]

I might have to steal your SEC Hell tagline...Central Florida is almost as bad..


LOL, not what I was talking about, but carry on.

[MplsBison]

Couple interesting links:

http://www.mwcconnection.com/2013/1/4/3835688/reports-byu-close-to-returning-to-mountain-west

http://www.courant.com/sports/college/hc-big-east-basketball-0104-20130103,0,6953614.story


One link talks about rumors of BYU heading back to the MWC. The other talks about the Catholic 7, potentially leaving money on the table in order to exit early from the Big East/CUSA 2.0.


Comments:

- I wonder if the MWC will try to spurn SDSU in favor of BYU or BYU + Texas schools - or if the plan is to get to 14 or 16 by adding both SDSU and BYU and then more teams? 1 - really would hate for SDSU's bball team to be stuck in the Big West for no good reason and 2 - how stupid for a team in San Diego to be the only team west of Dallas in the Big East!

- Seems to me like the Big East/CUSA 2.0 should just agree that it makes no sense being attached for 27 months to the Catholic 7 and let them leave early for free (rather than let those schools call their bluff).

[HailSzczur]

Seems to me like the Big East/CUSA 2.0 should just agree that it makes no sense being attached for 27 months to the Catholic 7 and let them leave early for free (rather than let those schools call their bluff).

That's only reason they aren't saying see ya at the end of this season. You're dealing with 7 Catholic schools, what do you really expect out of them, they're about as cheap as it comes

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There's this interesting post, too:

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=4602


With Boise State’s decision to back out on a deal to join the Big East and remain in the Mountain West, the general assumption has been that San Diego State, which was also scheduled to jump from the MWC to the Big East on July 1, would follow the Broncos’ lead and also back out of the Big East arrangment.

“The Big East hasn’t heard anything officially, but they (San Diego State) want to stay (with the Big East),” said one source familiar with the discussions that are being conducted between the Big East and SD State.

Whether that is wishful thinking from Big East officials or a realistic option remains to be seen.

He adds: "If Aresco can keep San Diego State, he is expected to target schools such as Fresno State, Nevada, BYU or UNLV." I still maintain AFA is the ultimate prize. The only way a trans-continental conference works is with the CoC trophy.

[MplsBison]

There's this interesting post, too:

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=4602



He adds: "If Aresco can keep San Diego State, he is expected to target schools such as Fresno State, Nevada, BYU or UNLV." I still maintain AFA is the ultimate prize. The only way a trans-continental conference works is with the CoC trophy.

And it won't work and it's not happening.

Jeez, even if AF joined then San Diego to Colo Springs is still the shortest trip for them. Still makes no sense.

But AF isn't leaving the MWC, Navy and Army aren't joining the Big East/CUSA 2.0 and I do think BYU will try to get back into the MWC. Just hope that leaves room for SDSU to get back into the MWC, too. Maybe along with UTEP or NMSU?

Reason: they won't be included in the new playoff like Notre Dame will, as an independent. Their only chance will be as the highest rated conf champion of the group of 5, something they can accomplish.

[HailSzczur]

And it won't work and it's not happening.

Jeez, even if AF joined then San Diego to Colo Springs is still the shortest trip for them. Still makes no sense.

But AF isn't leaving the MWC, Navy and Army aren't joining the Big East/CUSA 2.0 and I do think BYU will try to get back into the MWC. Just hope that leaves room for SDSU to get back into the MWC, too. Maybe along with UTEP or NMSU?

Reason: they won't be included in the new playoff like Notre Dame will, as an independent. Their only chance will be as the highest rated conf champion of the group of 5, something they can accomplish.

It's almost comical to think that the BE/CUSA2 would even think about adding more teams at this point. Teams are leaving much faster than they're adding them, and the instability more expansion would create would drive even more current members and possible suitors away.

From what I've heard you can expect SDSU back to the MWC, and that they might even be looking to poach SMU or Houston from CUSA 2.0

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's almost comical to think that the BE/CUSA2 would even think about adding more teams at this point. Teams are leaving much faster than they're adding them, and the instability more expansion would create would drive even more current members and possible suitors away.

From what I've heard you can expect SDSU back to the MWC, and that they might even be looking to poach SMU or Houston from CUSA 2.0

You must feel like UConn and Temple are comfortable with the status quo - and losing more BEF teams by the droves - if that's the case. I do not. I think they must (and basically have to) think outside the box to come up with something workable and marketable. Picking up UNLV doesn't do that. Picking up AFA does.

[totoinfl]

I read somewhere on ESPN that the MWC gave SDSU a first right of joining that expires 1/31...Could make the BYU play interesting, but I think they would love to have both.


Couple interesting links:

http://www.mwcconnection.com/2013/1/4/3835688/reports-byu-close-to-returning-to-mountain-west

http://www.courant.com/sports/college/hc-big-east-basketball-0104-20130103,0,6953614.story


One link talks about rumors of BYU heading back to the MWC. The other talks about the Catholic 7, potentially leaving money on the table in order to exit early from the Big East/CUSA 2.0.


Comments:

- I wonder if the MWC will try to spurn SDSU in favor of BYU or BYU + Texas schools - or if the plan is to get to 14 or 16 by adding both SDSU and BYU and then more teams? 1 - really would hate for SDSU's bball team to be stuck in the Big West for no good reason and 2 - how stupid for a team in San Diego to be the only team west of Dallas in the Big East!

- Seems to me like the Big East/CUSA 2.0 should just agree that it makes no sense being attached for 27 months to the Catholic 7 and let them leave early for free (rather than let those schools call their bluff).

[totoinfl]

SMU, Houston and UCF are already invited to the BE...they are not part of the CUSA mess at this point.


It's almost comical to think that the BE/CUSA2 would even think about adding more teams at this point. Teams are leaving much faster than they're adding them, and the instability more expansion would create would drive even more current members and possible suitors away.

From what I've heard you can expect SDSU back to the MWC, and that they might even be looking to poach SMU or Houston from CUSA 2.0

[MplsBison]

You must feel like UConn and Temple are comfortable with the status quo - and losing more BEF teams by the droves - if that's the case. I do not. I think they must (and basically have to) think outside the box to come up with something workable and marketable. Picking up UNLV doesn't do that. Picking up AFA does.

A new (football-only?), trans-continental conference, from scratch?

No.

There's no combination of teams from any of the group of 5 conferences plus non-ND indy's that could somehow combine power rings to make a "Captain Planet Superconference" that would get them anything better than what they can get in those group of 5 conferences.

That's just the reality, at this time, for teams like UConn, Cincy, South Florida, BYU, etc.


So in that case, I advocate for massaging the group of 5 conferences as best can be for regionality.

[MplsBison]

I read somewhere on ESPN that the MWC gave SDSU a first right of joining that expires 1/31...Could make the BYU play interesting, but I think they would love to have both.

So it's either wait SDSU out and offer BYU in Feb or offer both SDSU and BYU this month.

I don't see either being more realistic than the other. Just really sucks for SDSU if they get stuck in the BE/CUSA 2.0 football conf.

[MplsBison]

SMU, Houston and UCF are already invited to the BE...they are not part of the CUSA mess at this point.

Depends if SMU and Houston were clever enough to work in the same concept into their contracts with the BE/CUSA2 that SDSU was.

Ie, something along the lines of no exit penalty fee if no other teams in the central time zone or something else along geographic lines.

No exit fee -> they might consider defecting to MWC.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A new (football-only?), trans-continental conference, from scratch?

No.

Correct. BEF/CUSA2.0 is already a trans-continental conference that is in desperate need for some different puzzle pieces, so it's not getting built from scratch.

[HailSzczur]

You must feel like UConn and Temple are comfortable with the status quo - and losing more BEF teams by the droves - if that's the case. I do not. I think they must (and basically have to) think outside the box to come up with something workable and marketable. Picking up UNLV doesn't do that. Picking up AFA does.

I don't think either of them are comfortable, I just don't think the the current BE conference is going to survive more than another month or 2. You can only bail it out so many times

[HailSzczur]

SMU, Houston and UCF are already invited to the BE...they are not part of the CUSA mess at this point.

The current "big east" is basically a CUSA reunion with afew awkward guests. That's the league I was refering to

[MplsBison]

Correct. BEF/CUSA2.0 is already a trans-continental conference that is in desperate need for some different puzzle pieces, so it's not getting built from scratch.

No it's not. Not east-west anyway, the only correct way you can refer to that.

Not when SDSU, correctly, leaves out for the MWC.


You were referring to your idea of SDSU, Boise, BYU, AFA, Navy, Army, UConn, Temple, Cincy, USF putting their power rings together and forming a Captain Planet conference that would, somehow, be better than any of those teams could do in the BE, CUSA, MWC, etc.

Which is false.

[MplsBison]

I don't think either of them are comfortable, I just don't think the the current BE conference is going to survive more than another month or 2. You can only bail it out so many times

None of the teams slated to join have anywhere else to go, except perhaps a couple of the Texas schools to the MWC (lateral move that doesn't really benefit one way or another geographically).

Unless they all wanted to slink back to the CUSA and play former Sun Belt teams. That ain't gonna happen.

UConn and Temple could play in the MAC, again another lateral move.


There are no more moves upward left to be had, until Big Ten or SEC decide if and when they want 16.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No it's not. Not east-west anyway, the only correct way you can refer to that.

Not when SDSU, correctly, leaves out for the MWC.


You were referring to your idea of SDSU, Boise, BYU, AFA, Navy, Army, UConn, Temple, Cincy, USF putting their power rings together and forming a Captain Planet conference that would, somehow, be better than any of those teams could do in the BE, CUSA, MWC, etc.

Which is false.

Until proven otherwise, San Diego State is already a part of this.

If the USMA, USNA and AFA join together in the same conference, whomever is in that conference would by definition be in a better position than the Mountain West, C-USA, or any other less relevant FBS non-playoff conference. What would C-USA or Mountain West have to match CoC games? FAU/FIU? Colorado State/Utah State? It's not even close.

[MplsBison]

Until proven otherwise, San Diego State is already a part of this.

If the USMA, USNA and AFA join together in the same conference, whomever is in that conference would by definition be in a better position than the Mountain West, C-USA, or any other less relevant FBS non-playoff conference. What would C-USA or Mountain West have to match CoC games? FAU/FIU? Colorado State/Utah State? It's not even close.

The academies don't want to tie the CoC games to a conference brand. They've never done that and never will do that unless it was the Big Ten or something like that.

Fact that AFA is out in Colorado kills the idea anyway. AFA ain't joining the CUSA or BE and Navy/Army ain't joining the MWC.

If AFA were out east or if Army and Navy were in CA or something like that, it could work.


San Diego is getting out of the BE deal, we both know that.

[HailSzczur]

San Diego is getting out of the BE deal, we both know that.

I personally thought that was made abundantly clear the minute it was revealed they could back out without exit fee since Boise left first. It's really a no brainer for them and the MWC

[Laker]

If SDSU doesn't swallow their pride and go back to the MWC they are idiots. If the MWC doesn't forgive SDSU for "disrespect" and invite them back, then they are idiots. I wouldn't hold my breath on getting BYU back, but I bet a MWC with SDSU would be more appealing to BYU that without them. I guess that we will find out by Jan. 31st.

[Laker]

San Diego State takes Big East logo off their athletics website. Can an announcement to return to the MWC be far away?

http://www.mwcconnection.com/2013/1/5/3838120/san-diego-state-mountain-west-expansion#comments

[dgtw]

If SDSU doesn't swallow their pride and go back to the MWC they are idiots. If the MWC doesn't forgive SDSU for "disrespect" and invite them back, then they are idiots. I wouldn't hold my breath on getting BYU back, but I bet a MWC with SDSU would be more appealing to BYU that without them. I guess that we will find out by Jan. 31st.

SDSU will give them 12 teams and a conference playoff game. That's all they really need. Thirteen isn't a good number for football, so BYU needs someone to join with them. Houston and SMU would be possibilities, but now their back at an odd number. Tulsa is in the neighborhood, but they don't add a whole lot, though neither do Idaho or NMSU. Getting BYU would require adding some dead weight to keep balance.

[MplsBison]

SDSU will give them 12 teams and a conference playoff game. That's all they really need. Thirteen isn't a good number for football, so BYU needs someone to join with them. Houston and SMU would be possibilities, but now their back at an odd number. Tulsa is in the neighborhood, but they don't add a whole lot, though neither do Idaho or NMSU. Getting BYU would require adding some dead weight to keep balance.

Doesn't sound like BYU is on board for next season.

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2013/01/04/bmurphy/mountain_west_daily_contact_with_san_diego_state_n ot_case_with_b


If San Diego State does remain in the league, Thompson expects the Mountain West to play the 2013 football season with 12 members. There has been talk about the league growing past 12 with Texas schools (Houston, SMU or UTEP).

"I would say with about 99 percent chance on January 4 that we will be either an 11-team or a 12-team league for 2013."

[bojeta]

San Diego State takes Big East logo off their athletics website. Can an announcement to return to the MWC be far away?

http://www.mwcconnection.com/2013/1/5/3838120/san-diego-state-mountain-west-expansion#comments

I haven't followed up on the football situation at SDSU, but they have joined the Big West in all other sports. My guess is they will remain in the MWC for football now.

[dgtw]

They joined the Big East for football only so they stuck everything else in the Big West so they aren't flying their tennis team to New York for a match that eight people will watch. If they go back to the MWC, it would most likely be for all sports. Hawaii is football only for the MWC, but their location makes them a special case.

[MplsBison]

I haven't followed up on the football situation at SDSU, but they have joined the Big West in all other sports. My guess is they will remain in the MWC for football now.

Huh? Um...no. The Big West holds zero cards and zero leverage with anyone. They're a low major DI conf with no football.

When SDSU remains in the MWC, it'll be in all sports and they won't be paying the Big West a single cent to leave.


I honestly don't see why Hawaii doesn't join the MWC in all sports as well. So long as central time zone schools aren't added (which was the problem they had with the WAC), it shouldn't matter that much. Have to fly to California for all conf games in all sports anyway.

It would boost their RPI in all sports except maybe baseball.

[slostang]

Huh? Um...no. The Big West holds zero cards and zero leverage with anyone. They're a low major DI conf with no football.

When SDSU remains in the MWC, it'll be in all sports and they won't be paying the Big West a single cent to leave.


I honestly don't see why Hawaii doesn't join the MWC in all sports as well. So long as central time zone schools aren't added (which was the problem they had with the WAC), it shouldn't matter that much. Have to fly to California for all conf games in all sports anyway.

It would boost their RPI in all sports except maybe baseball.
Boise is paying the Big West 1.5 million to exit without playing a single game. I am sure if SDSU returns their olympic sports to the MWC they will also pay an exit fee.

[MplsBison]

Boise is paying the Big West 1.5 million to exit without playing a single game. I am sure if SDSU returns their olympic sports to the MWC they will also pay an exit fee.

Link?

Only exit fee that's been published is 5 million to the Big East, which the MWC is paying.


There is zero doubt that SDSU will remain in the MWC for all sports. Not even a question. If the MWC has to swat the Big West away with 1.5mil, I guess they'll have to do that. No big deal.


I can't believe Big West fans actually think there's even a chance of SDSU staying in the league...

[slostang]

Link?

Only exit fee that's been published is 5 million to the Big East, which the MWC is paying.


There is zero doubt that SDSU will remain in the MWC for all sports. Not even a question. If the MWC has to swat the Big West away with 1.5mil, I guess they'll have to do that. No big deal.


I can't believe Big West fans actually think there's even a chance of SDSU staying in the league...Link: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/01/03/2399482/kustra-big-east-issues-forced.html

Hawaii is a football only member. If SDSU comes back as a football only member that would make 12 football members (MWC football championship game) and 10 Olympic sport members. An even number of teams is preferred in sports like basketball. 11 teams in basketball is a scheduling nightmare. Also part what made the Big East attractive to SDSU was the savings on travel cost for their Olympic sports.

If they leave the Big West is 3 million dollars richer. Thank you SDSU and Boise State.

[slostang]

Silence from Mpls???? Boise's president said not only did they owe the Big West 1.5 million, he said they planned to pay it. Not a bad pay day for the Big West.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Silence from Mpls????

Faith in God renewed! xlolx

[slostang]

Faith in God renewed! xlolx

In this case silence is truly golden. xlolx

[MplsBison]

Link: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/01/03/2399482/kustra-big-east-issues-forced.html

Hawaii is a football only member. If SDSU comes back as a football only member that would make 12 football members (MWC football championship game) and 10 Olympic sport members. An even number of teams is preferred in sports like basketball. 11 teams in basketball is a scheduling nightmare. Also part what made the Big East attractive to SDSU was the savings on travel cost for their Olympic sports.

If they leave the Big West is 3 million dollars richer. Thank you SDSU and Boise State.

Appreciate the link. Didn't say you were wrong.

And so the MWC will pay another insignificant 3mil to the Big West. The fee to spring Boise from the Big East for football only was more than that. Should tell you something about the odds of SDSU staying in the Big West. Zip.

SDSU has too strong a bball program to be in a low-major conference. They will continue playing strong programs UNLV and New Mexico, upcoming programs Co St and possible Wyo (and Air Force was decent a few years ago) and new good programs Nevada and Utah St. No way they'll pass that up to play in a low-major bus league.

[slostang]

We shall see.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Want a game-changer?

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-01-06/catholic-7-tv-deal-fox-big-east-schools-georgetown-villanova-st-johns


The so-called “Catholic 7” schools that are leaving the Big East to form their own basketball league expect to double their money in a new television rights contract, sources told ESPN.com’s Darren Rovell.

Fox Sports made an initial offer of $500 million over 12 years, sources told Rovell. Fox is set to launch the Fox Sports 1 channel in August, replacing Speed, a motorsports channel owned by the network. Fox is scheduled to meet with parties representing the “Catholic 7” on Wednesday in New York, sources told Rovell.

NBC Sports Network has engaged in preliminary discussions, according to the report.

Seriously, what does UConn do? They almost certainly won't make the same money in CUSA2.0 if these numbers are true.

[MplsBison]

We shall see.

I'll bet you my next paycheck to $100 from you.

You can just go ahead and mail me my hundred dollar bill. It's that locked in.

[slostang]

I'll bet you my next paycheck to $100 from you.

You can just go ahead and mail me my hundred dollar bill. It's that locked in.

Not betting, just saying it is not a sure thing.