Question for Georgia Southern fans

[appstate91]

Should GS make the move to FBS do you think they will be able to continue running the TO offense. I know no one is currently running it with any big time success. I know Georgia Tec uses it but is never really a contender for anything. Am I forgetting any other schools. Just wanted your point of view and good luck this weekend.....Its great to be a Mountaineer ( even though we aren't playing any more this year :D

[GATA]

Should GS make the move to FBS do you think they will be able to continue running the TO offense. I know no one is currently running it with any big time success. I know Georgia Tec uses it but is never really a contender for anything. Am I forgetting any other schools. Just wanted your point of view and good luck this weekend.....Its great to be a Mountaineer ( even though we aren't playing any more this year :D

Sure. It's all relative. There are only like 4 teams using the offense in I-A so you're comparing their relative success with everybody else running "conventional" offenses.

If as many teams ran the Triple option as run the spread you would see a few more having big time "success."

I have seen plenty of so-called spread teams or pro-style teams that really stink on offense. Nobody questions the legitmacy of their schemes though because everybody is running them...so they just blame the players.

If the option offense wasn't effective teams like Navy, Air Force, Army etc...would get blown out of the water every week. Hell, before we went back to the option we were TRYING to be an Air Raid team. It worked out for Troy and MTSU...not so much for us. There are plenty of sound offensive schemes. More than one way to skin a cat.

[gsu2583]

Yes. That is all.

[Apphole]

I've had a theory for about a year now, and bear with me here:

The triple option is much more common/effective in the FCS because the officials at this level are grossly inferior and teams more frequently get away with holds and chop blocks.

[Southern Swarm]

Tech won the ACC in 2009 so I wouldn't say they're NEVER a contender. I mean they later had to vacate that win due to other issues but they still physically won it. Tech's issues have pretty much been on the defensive side of the ball in the Paul Johnson era not the triple option. Heck with the way things eventually turned out they probably would've won the ACC this year had they even had a mediocre defense. The biggest challenge for T.O teams imo are bowl games and high profile games to start the season as the triple option doesn't have the greatest record against teams given more than a month to prepare for it.

If Tech can run it in the ACC, I'm not that worried about the Sun Belt. I'll worry about it in 50 years or so when they start talking about moving us up to the SEC or whatever is passing for the dominant Southern conference by then. (We'll all prolly be running the Chip Kelly jr. offense by then or something anyway xrotatehx)

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

Honest question here. If GSU moves up, is anyone worried about recruiting since both GSU at Georgia tech run the option? Or do you think the recruiting will still shake out the same way it currently does?

[Tuscon]

Honest question here. If GSU moves up, is anyone worried about recruiting since both GSU at Georgia tech run the option? Or do you think the recruiting will still shake out the same way it currently does?

Kids will still want to go to GT for the education and to play in a BCS school. But you'll get kids that want to go to GS that can't get into GT academically, but still want to stay in state. Plus, Paul Johnson is a ****e recruiter.

[Southern Swarm]

Honest question here. If GSU moves up, is anyone worried about recruiting since both GSU at Georgia tech run the option? Or do you think the recruiting will still shake out the same way it currently does?
Thankfully we live in the middle of a High School football hotbed, and Georgia which has (in recent years at least) been out blue-chipping even Florida (though this kind of thing is very cyclical so who knows how long it lasts)

[cbarrier90]

Remember what happened the last time GSU went away from the TO? It's part of the program's identity. When you think of GSU, you think of the triple option, just as you think of ASU and the spread. They'll be fine.

[gsu6trophies]

Should GS make the move to FBS do you think they will be able to continue running the TO offense. I know no one is currently running it with any big time success. I know Georgia Tec uses it but is never really a contender for anything. Am I forgetting any other schools. Just wanted your point of view and good luck this weekend.....Its great to be a Mountaineer ( even though we aren't playing any more this year :D

I don't know what you mean by big time success, but I don't picture Navy winning a NC with any kind of offense. However they have played in bowls games every year other than last year since 2003, I believe. They have also dominated their bitterest rival, and won a large majority of the COC trophies in that period. I can't imagine they would do any better than that running any other offense.

As for Army and Air Force, 2010 was the first time in history that all three academies competed in a bowl.

If you include Navy in Sunbelt, CUSA and MAC teams, I would say they have big time success. I believe they will be in the big east soon. There are a lot of teams that run "conventional" or spread passing attacks that would never be considered.

GT, for as disappointing as they have been, did win an ACC title. One more than they had in some previous 20 odd years. They also played in a BCS bowl. Those memories are fleeting, but I believe it at least falsifies your statement.

[jim121256]

I think the academies run the TO because it is an "equalizer." It allows a team with players who aren't great athletes to be more competitive IF those athletes are smart and disciplined athletes. The academies don't have the best athletes in the country, but they are near the top in discipline and intelligence. As to Tech, the same thing could be said about them. They have a lot of bright and disciplined kids, but they probably don't have the same level of athleticism as you'd see at Georgia, for example.

When you look at the really successful teams running the option (Oklahoma in the 70's, GS over a lot of the last 30 years), you see teams that not only had the disciplined athletes, but they had explosive athletes at the quarterback position and as the pitch man. I think that's one thing that Tech's been missing on offense. They haven't had the quarterback who was a huge threat on every play. If you look at the GS national champion teams, you'd see the explosive threat on each team (Tracy Ham, Raymond Gross, Greg Hill, and JR Revere). JC Watts provided the same threat at Oklahoma. That threat would add several points a game to GT's output. That's why I'm very positive on the future at GS. I don't know if a title is in the cards for this year or not, but if the team stays in FCS, I would expect to see plenty of December football over the next few years.

Recruiting... I think GS, UGA, and GT are each, to a great extent, looking at a different group of recruits. Of course, we want the players that Georgia has, but the reality is that an option team isn't recruiting the same type of player as a pro style team. I'd also say that we and Tech aren't looking at the same group of players completely because of Tech's academic reputation.

[GATA]

I think the academies run the TO because it is an "equalizer." It allows a team with players who aren't great athletes to be more competitive IF those athletes are smart and disciplined athletes. The academies don't have the best athletes in the country, but they are near the top in discipline and intelligence. As to Tech, the same thing could be said about them. They have a lot of bright and disciplined kids, but they probably don't have the same level of athleticism as you'd see at Georgia, for example.

When you look at the really successful teams running the option (Oklahoma in the 70's, GS over a lot of the last 30 years), you see teams that not only had the disciplined athletes, but they had explosive athletes at the quarterback position and as the pitch man. I think that's one thing that Tech's been missing on offense. They haven't had the quarterback who was a huge threat on every play. If you look at the GS national champion teams, you'd see the explosive threat on each team (Tracy Ham, Raymond Gross, Greg Hill, and JR Revere). JC Watts provided the same threat at Oklahoma. That threat would add several points a game to GT's output. That's why I'm very positive on the future at GS. I don't know if a title is in the cards for this year or not, but if the team stays in FCS, I would expect to see plenty of December football over the next few years.

Recruiting... I think GS, UGA, and GT are each, to a great extent, looking at a different group of recruits. Of course, we want the players that Georgia has, but the reality is that an option team isn't recruiting the same type of player as a pro style team. I'd also say that we and Tech aren't looking at the same group of players completely because of Tech's academic reputation.

This pretty much sums it up. Frankly, we're going to need the offense to be able to compete. If we scrapped it, we'd be REALLY ****ty.

[Baldy]

The flex we run is a version of the Run & Shoot. With a true "dual threat" QB (a Tracy Ham type of player), we could pass just as effectively as we run the ball. Moving to FBS should give us a better shot at landing one of those type of quarterbacks. People seem to forget that Ham passed for over 400 yards in the 1985 chipper and threw for over 300 in the 1986 championship game. :)

[Gringer1]

We tried moving away from the option and it resulted in the worst 4 year stretch in GSU history. We won't be trying that again anytime soon.

[seantaylor]

Sure wish we still had that offensive genius that is Chrissy Hatcher

[ASU_Fanatic]

GT's triple option hasn't brought them much success the past few years. I'm biased, but I'd feel a heck of a lot better about App with their spread than I would if I was GaSo fan and the TO offense. If App goes FBS, I know it's unrealistic, but I want to be the next Boise State. If you don't shoot for the stars you're doing it wrong, I want to legitimately be on the actual national scene one day and it's not impossible. I just don't see a team that runs a triple option ever being one of the most feared in the country, sure you can be like Navy and win 7-8 games a year which is their ceiling probably, but teams that run spreads win FBS national titles. See where I'm coming from? GT is getting worse and worse every year in the Johnson era with that offense

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Paul Johnson hasn't had the "luxury" of being able to recruit just any athlete at Navy or Ga Tech. Not only will Ga Southern be able to recruit from a larger academic pool than Tech and Navy, I'm confident many of the Georgia kids currently signing with Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Troy, Southern Miss, UAB, etc will be staying home at Ga Southern if we're also recruiting them.

[ASU_Fanatic]

Paul Johnson hasn't had the "luxury" of being able to recruit just any athlete at Navy or Ga Tech. Not only will Ga Southern be able to recruit from a larger academic pool than Tech and Navy, I'm confident many of the Georgia kids currently signing with Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Troy, Southern Miss, UAB, etc will be staying home at Ga Southern if we're also recruiting them.

Not quarterbacks or wide receivers.... I mean I guess you're right and are making good points but it still seems like an offense that a good FBS coach will figure out how to stop easily over the course of a few seasons

[citdog]

Not quarterbacks or wide receivers.... I mean I guess you're right and are making good points but it still seems like an offense that a good FBS coach will figure out how to stop easily over the course of a few seasons

seriously dude you're like 14 years old. you can't find your *** with both hands. make sure you make it on time to the bus stop in the morning and leave the football talk to those who have nuts that have dropped.

[ASU_Fanatic]

seriously dude you're like 14 years old. you can't find your *** with both hands. make sure you make it on time to the bus stop in the morning and leave the football talk to those who have nuts that have dropped.

i probably know more about football at all levels than you do. i don't know if know if you're an nfl fan or not though

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

GT's triple option hasn't brought them much success the past few years. I'm biased, but I'd feel a heck of a lot better about App with their spread than I would if I was GaSo fan and the TO offense. If App goes FBS, I know it's unrealistic, but I want to be the next Boise State. If you don't shoot for the stars you're doing it wrong, I want to legitimately be on the actual national scene one day and it's not impossible. I just don't see a team that runs a triple option ever being one of the most feared in the country, sure you can be like Navy and win 7-8 games a year which is their ceiling probably, but teams that run spreads win FBS national titles. See where I'm coming from? GT is getting worse and worse every year in the Johnson era with that offense

Huh? In the past three seasons we are the most successful program not named NDSU unless Sam Houston wins the NC this year...and not to mention unquestioningly more successful in these three seasons than the other marquee programs in the FCS like App, Montana, Delaware, and JMU.

[caribbeanhen]

Huh? In the past three seasons we are the most successful program not named NDSU unless Sam Houston wins the NC this year...and not to mention unquestioningly more successful in these three seasons than the other marquee programs in the FCS like App, Montana, Delaware, and JMU.

more consistant than Delaware, but when you had your chance 2 years ago you took a loss

[Baldy]

more consistant than Delaware, but when you had your chance 2 years ago you took a loss
As you did in 2000.

Your point? xintx

[caribbeanhen]

As you did in 2000.

Your point? xintx

the point is you skipped one.... selective memory?

[blueballs]

more consistant than Delaware, but when you had your chance 2 years ago you took a loss

I wouldn't trade GSU's six NC's for UD's one, or...

The 43-12 all time playoff record, the two longest all time home winning streaks and the longest all time home playoff winning streak, 78% all time winning % overall, 8 NC game appearances in 27 years, 6 titles, 12 times in the semis in 26 (could be 13 in 27 this afternoon) years, the all time leading rusher, the all time leading scorer, the record for rushing yards in a championship game, points in the championship game, yards in the championship game, TD's in the championship game, Tracy Ham in the College Football HOF and Adrian Peterson waiting as a lead pipe lock...

Since 1984, when GSU moved to 1-AA, they have been the best program in this division and there's really no debating that AND they've managed to do it with different coaches- 3 different coaches won NC's coaching GSU, so it wasn't a one hit wonder.

Seems like I remember a banged up GSU squad going into Newark in 2000 and ending the season of perhaps UD's second best ever team too...

And yes, Monken will stay an option based offense if/when GSU moves up. GSU will do well long term. The people care too much, the administration cares enough, and the other factors (recruiting footprint, reputation) are in their favor. #optionu

[caribbeanhen]

I wouldn't trade GSU's six NC's for UD's one, or...

The 43-12 all time playoff record, the two longest all time home winning streaks and the longest all time home playoff winning streak, 78% all time winning % overall, 8 NC game appearances in 27 years, 6 titles, 12 times in the semis in 26 (could be 13 in 27 this afternoon) years, the all time leading rusher, the all time leading scorer, the record for rushing yards in a championship game, points in the championship game, yards in the championship game, TD's in the championship game, Tracy Ham in the College Football HOF and Adrian Peterson waiting as a lead pipe lock...

Since 1984, when GSU moved to 1-AA, they have been the best program in this division and there's really no debating that AND they've managed to do it with different coaches- 3 different coaches won NC's coaching GSU, so it wasn't a one hit wonder.

Seems like I remember a banged up GSU squad going into Newark in 2000 and ending the season of perhaps UD's second best ever team too...

And yes, Monken will stay an option based offense if/when GSU moves up. GSU will do well long term. The people care too much, the administration cares enough, and the other factors (recruiting footprint, reputation) are in their favor. #optionu

that's fair, but we've had some decent success when paired head to head with you guys.... and I'll take it

[gsu_paintballer]

that's fair, but we've had some decent success when paired head to head with you guys.... and I'll take it

You just made his point. You see success against us as a big deal.

[Baldy]

the point is you skipped one.... selective memory?
Not at all, just like in 2010, you lost the week after UD beat us in 1997, too.

[caribbeanhen]

You just made his point. You see success against us as a big deal.

and likewise, you've made mine as you've admitted Delaware's success against Geoso

[caribbeanhen]

Not at all, just like in 2010, you lost the week after UD beat us in 1997, too.

yep, what happened after we beat you in 2002?

[gsu2583]

yep, what happened after we beat you in 2002?

Delaware is just a depressing state in general. And the state of Delaware football is depressing too...

Well.., not for US.

But for some..., maybe.

[caribbeanhen]

Delaware is just a depressing state in general. And the state of Delaware football is depressing too...

Well.., not for US.

But for some..., maybe.

if your depressed get some medicine, your mental state probably has nothing to do with your state of residence

[gsu_paintballer]

and likewise, you've made mine as you've admitted Delaware's success against Geoso

Delaware is 3-2 against GSU. woohoo.

Glad your day was made. I'm off to watch my team in the playoffs. You can watch on ESPN if you'd like, since Delaware doesn't have anything going on today.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Not quarterbacks or wide receivers.... I mean I guess you're right and are making good points but it still seems like an offense that a good FBS coach will figure out how to stop easily over the course of a few seasons

Ga Southern's TO scheme has served us well. First, we're not really getting into too many recruiting battles with the "Big Boys" because our offensive system isn't built on size. We've "stolen" some great high school QB's who were being recruited to be WR's or DB's by the Bigs, but the opportunity to play QB made Ga Southern their choice - and some of them ended up being WR's or DB's anyway. The same goes for "undersized" linemen and running backs.

As we've seen in the SoCon, our scheme has become less effective because 1/3 of the conference runs it and the defenses get more practice, but it's still relatively rare in FBS. There are plenty of good strategies to defend any scheme, including the TO, but because Georgia Southern will NEVER have the best players, I prefer the concept of trying to have the best TEAM on a given Saturday. The TO is a timing/finesse offense that doesn't rely on overpowering the opponent and it fits our identity well.

[ASU_Fanatic]

Huh? In the past three seasons we are the most successful program not named NDSU unless Sam Houston wins the NC this year...and not to mention unquestioningly more successful in these three seasons than the other marquee programs in the FCS like App, Montana, Delaware, and JMU.

GT=Georgia Tech

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

GT=Georgia Tech

Mea Culpa.

[blueballs]

yep, what happened after we beat you in 2002?

GSU won the SoCon and make a run to the semis losing to eventual NC WKU on the last play of the game.

[OL FU]

I am sure someone has already said this, but Tech loses because their defense sucks

[UNHWildcat18]

To be honest I think they will have to change their style of offense. I'm not saying they cant run the triple anymore, but watching GSU try and pass the ball is like watching a person who is too fat to get out of bed run on a treadmill lol

[citdog]

To be honest I think they will have to change their style of offense. I'm not saying they cant run the triple anymore, but watching GSU try and pass the ball is like watching a person who is too fat to get out of bed run on a treadmill lol


The triple option made your school look like a couple of retards attempting to hump a doorknob last week.

[GATA]

Maybe ODU should think about changing THEIR offense...

[jim121256]

It's touching how many of you are concerned for our well-being. Actually, I expect that, if they go to the next level, you'd see GS start to adopt some other looks in their offense. The triple option is such a part of the program's heritage that I don't think it will be scrapped again (we all saw how well that worked out), but I'd bet that five or ten years from now, you'd see a team that runs the option as its basic offense, but which has quite a few other wrinkles. I'd love to hear the conversations between Jeff Monken and his cousin Todd (who's the offensive coordinator at Oklahoma State) at family reunions. With the right quarterback, I could see some of OK State's option passing game being incorporated into GS's offense. How'd you like to gameplan for that?

[Skjellyfetti]

I'd love to hear the conversations between Jeff Monken and his cousin Todd (who's the offensive coordinator at Oklahoma State) at family reunions. With the right quarterback, I could see some of OK State's option passing game being incorporated into GS's offense. How'd you like to gameplan for that?

Would be pretty similar to the Oregon, Urban Meyer, Rich Rod, offense App used to run (we don't run the option as much anymore), etc. Triple option + run and shoot passing game.

[eaglessoar20021]

Southern will continue to get the same level players on offense and from time to time land another Foster or Peterson. Here's where you'll see a difference in Southern when/if they go 1a. They will get bigger and faster on the defensive side of the ball. We'll start getting 300lb DT'S. 240lb middle linebackers. 200lb+ safties.


Kids will still want to go to GT for the education and to play in a BCS school. But you'll get kids that want to go to GS that can't get into GT academically, but still want to stay in state. Plus, Paul Johnson is a ****e recruiter.

[seantaylor]

I'm taking the exact opposite approach. The shotgun set we run is absolute garbage. It is the only thing that slows our offense down now, along with penalties. Glad we saw basically none of it in the second half.

[coover]

I think the academies run the TO because it is an "equalizer." It allows a team with players who aren't great athletes to be more competitive IF those athletes are smart and disciplined athletes. The academies don't have the best athletes in the country, but they are near the top in discipline and intelligence. As to Tech, the same thing could be said about them. They have a lot of bright and disciplined kids, but they probably don't have the same level of athleticism as you'd see at Georgia, for example.

When you look at the really successful teams running the option (Oklahoma in the 70's, GS over a lot of the last 30 years), you see teams that not only had the disciplined athletes, but they had explosive athletes at the quarterback position and as the pitch man. I think that's one thing that Tech's been missing on offense. They haven't had the quarterback who was a huge threat on every play. If you look at the GS national champion teams, you'd see the explosive threat on each team (Tracy Ham, Raymond Gross, Greg Hill, and JR Revere). JC Watts provided the same threat at Oklahoma. That threat would add several points a game to GT's output. That's why I'm very positive on the future at GS. I don't know if a title is in the cards for this year or not, but if the team stays in FCS, I would expect to see plenty of December football over the next few years.

Recruiting... I think GS, UGA, and GT are each, to a great extent, looking at a different group of recruits. Of course, we want the players that Georgia has, but the reality is that an option team isn't recruiting the same type of player as a pro style team. I'd also say that we and Tech aren't looking at the same group of players completely because of Tech's academic reputation.You make some very good points. The Triple Option is an "equalizer' of sorts, but not because you do not need "great athletes" running it. In fact, you do need great athletes, perhaps even greater athletes than the schools running the spread.

The thing that makes the TO work is that it allows great, but SMALLER athletes to be successful. With the TO, you don't need the gigantic lineman, and the really big backs. What you do need is quickness and skill.

It's hard for a FCS team to recruit the really big lineman. They are snapped up quickly by the FBS teams. It's hard for an FCS team to recruit the tall QB with the accurate arm. But it is much easier to recruit the smaller skilled linemen and the smaller skilled fast backs that are overlooked by FBS because of size. And it is these smaller athletes that excel at the TO. That is not to say that larger athletes would not excel there. They would, but in general, todays passing teams with huge players are thought to be better offensively.

So there are only four TO teams playing FBS football. Is it a coincidence that 3 of the four are Army, Navy, and Air Force? Of course not. While they do recruit, most of their athletes are considerably smaller than the athletes of other FBS teams. They need the TO to make it possible to compete with other FBS teams.

Georgia Southern, when they do move to FBS, will need to recruit bigger, taller athletes and they should abandon the Triple Option as it should not be needed. Hopefully, they will not need an "equalizer" offense.

[Mr. C]

i probably know more about football at all levels than you do. i don't know if know if you're an nfl fan or not though

Did you play college football? If not, you shouldn't think you know football better than the Citdog. Your responses show you are out of your league in this discussion.

[GATA]

I'm taking the exact opposite approach. The shotgun set we run is absolute garbage. It is the only thing that slows our offense down now, along with penalties. Glad we saw basically none of it in the second half.

This is coming from a guy who doesn't know the difference between a zone read and a draw...

[seantaylor]

This is coming from a guy who doesn't know the difference between a zone read and a draw...

No idea what you are talking about, palooka.